A Proportional Response Happening Now?
[guest post by Dana]
Coincidentally – or not coincidentally – North Korea seems to be experiencing widespread internet outages today:
It’s not yet known whether the United States is responsible for the downtime. But according to Dyn Research — which earlier this year bought the respected network analysis firm Renesys — North Korea’s Internet is currently showing unusual amounts of instability.
“I haven’t seen such a steady beat of routing instability and outages in KP before,” said Doug Madory, director of Internet analysis at Dyn Research. “Usually there are isolated blips, not continuous connectivity problems. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are absorbing some sort of attack presently.”
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (8e74ce) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:34 pmHow-dy!
The Dana channeling Minnie Pearl (f6a568) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:35 pmI’m not sure how you even target a system with only four Commodore 64 computers.
Maybe we found Kim Jong-un’s favorite South Korean porn site. (It’s not what you think: for North Koreans, porn consists of watching whole families sitting down together and actually eating.
That’s eating food, nk!
The cyber-scientist Dana (f6a568) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:39 pmHeh. However the US delivers its proportional response, cyber-scientist Dana, they will need to ake special care not to cause Kim Jong Un to lose face, lest he strike back twice as hard. Saving face seems to be one of is top priorities in the land of starvation.
Dana (8e74ce) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:41 pmThe air-war over North Vietnam was conducted under the auspices of “Proportional Response”, and look how well that turned out.
askeptic (efcf22) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:43 pmThis seems rather pointless. It’s not as if the internet is a particularly big or critical thing in North Korea, after all.
Steven Den Beste (99cfa1) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:45 pmnot exactly shock and awe huh
america just isn’t very impressive anymore
happyfeet (a037ad) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:45 pmAs alluded to above, the best “shock and awe” will be that which is clear to Kim Jong-un but not readily seen by others. Let him save face, unless you want to drive a madman to even greater madness.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:52 pmSuggestions for “shock and awe” proportional response?
Dana (8e74ce) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:55 pmHello.
Denver Todd (5f001f) — 12/22/2014 @ 2:31 pmWhat if this attack is not coordinated by our government, but is the work of a bunch of hackers who just want to mess with Kim Jong Un and His Merry Fellows? That to me seems frankly a more likely scenario than the CIA being able to pull off some sort of operation.
JVW (60ca93) — 12/22/2014 @ 2:37 pmIs there anyone still ‘capable’ left at Langley?
askeptic (efcf22) — 12/22/2014 @ 2:42 pmI don’t believe it. President Chamberlain is on the golf course. Unless you show me specific nsa operatives launching a dos attack with written instructions from Valerie Jerrett on an undamaged government use only hard drive.
Playstation kids getting even would be my call.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/22/2014 @ 2:43 pmFrom a New York Times editorial (probably the most “off” part of the paper) Friday:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/19/opinion/sony-and-mr-kims-thugs.html?_r=0
Given this, what does the New York Times editorial oard recommend:
Sammy Finkelman (1b38fa) — 12/22/2014 @ 2:52 pmFor those who are thinking we are not likely to achieve much because there is so little connectivity to the internet in NK simply are not aware of the multifaceted approach to cyber warfare which is operational around the world. The “Internet” is but a fraction of the modes by which an aggressor can assault an opponent. Take a look into STUXNET, a US CIA/NSA attack on Iran’s nuclear centrifuges. The Internet was not involved to any significant degree. Take a look at the book “Countdown to Zero Day” for a fascinating and detailed description of the attack, as well as a description of the U.S. cyber-warfare capability which began development in the 90’s. We’ve had 20+ years to hone our skills, so I believe we have substantial capability in this arena.
Yet…… because most of our actions are covert, we are likely to NOT hear about the attacks.
Joe
joepeh (b4009f) — 12/22/2014 @ 2:54 pmCommunist China is publishing various things by selected non-official people gently hinting that maybe they don’t like, and maybe it is not a good idea, to be allied with North Korea.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/21/world/asia/chinese-annoyance-with-north-korea-bubbles-to-the-surface.html
I have to feel that China maybe even selected Kim Jong Un as the successor, the best way to maintain the system. He’s not the oldest son. They may possibly not quite like what they got. But he may have removed all rivals.
(However, it is generally believed that China is not yet ready to face the prospect of a unified Korea governed from Seoul on its border.
Sammy Finkelman (1b38fa) — 12/22/2014 @ 2:59 pmIn other words, the editors of the Grey Lady thought that they had to write something, and managed to do so without recommending anything at all. The United States needs to “seek an international panel to investigate the attack and demand condemnation by the United Nations Security Council?” Now that will surely scare the crap out of the only fat kid in North Korea! “The international community needs to speed up work on norms on what constitutes a cyberattack and what the response should be?” Oh, problem solved, problem solved!
The Dana who can see through the bovine feces (1b79fa) — 12/22/2014 @ 3:03 pmFrom the Daily Mail:
What’s all this about?
US envoy says North Koreans face ‘living nightmare’
And last week the General Assembly adopted a resolution calling on the Security Council to consider referring Pyongyang to the International Criminal Court! (For human rights violations, not the SONY hack or the threat against movie theatres)
Sammy Finkelman (1b38fa) — 12/22/2014 @ 3:08 pm“The international community needs to speed up work on norms on what constitutes a cyberattack and what the response should be?” Oh, problem solved, problem solved!
It has become almost a parody of progressivism, this fetish for international coordination and multi-national laws and regulations. Let’s suggest that we subject the NYT editorial board to the journalistic norms of, oh, China or Russia or Venezuela, to name a few, and see how keen they are on international regulations after that.
JVW (60ca93) — 12/22/2014 @ 3:27 pmI’d much rather flood them with satellite-enabled internet devices, actually. Free flow of information is one of the things of which the Nork regime is most afraid, and appropriately so.
Beldar (fa637a) — 12/22/2014 @ 3:33 pmThat’s eating food, nk!
Oh. Okay. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/392610/North-Korean-reveals-cannibalism-is-common-after-escaping-starving-state
nk (dbc370) — 12/22/2014 @ 3:49 pmAt Gizmodo, the joke of the day is: It’s probably just that North Korea has Comcast.
nk (dbc370) — 12/22/2014 @ 4:21 pmThere’s proportional response and there’s overwhelming force. Take your pick. I prefer the latter – all day long.
ropelight (d9043e) — 12/22/2014 @ 4:39 pmIf AWACs are jamming North Korean radio communications and radar installations, we wouldn’t know about it. We do still have AWACs, right?
nk (dbc370) — 12/22/2014 @ 4:47 pm22. LOL
SarahW (267b14) — 12/22/2014 @ 4:54 pmI hope they are throttled soundly for days to come.
SarahW (267b14) — 12/22/2014 @ 4:55 pmnk, it can neither be confirmed or denied that US forces conduct ELINT flights against countries of interest.
askeptic (efcf22) — 12/22/2014 @ 5:24 pmExplained, the Seoul Starbucks rebooted their WiFi router.
SPQR (4764ea) — 12/22/2014 @ 5:28 pm19. Re: International regulations.
I see in today’s Wall Street Journal that one of the things that got tossed into the Cromnibus bill was saving the Internet from President Obama.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/gordon-crovitz-congress-steps-in-to-protect-the-internet-1419206113?mod=WSJ_LifeStyle_LatestHeadlines
Sammy Finkelman (1b38fa) — 12/22/2014 @ 5:44 pmGreat point from Beldar.
Leviticus (8818d2) — 12/22/2014 @ 5:50 pmHmmm. I imagine the majority of NK’s realize they live under a repressive tyrant and the rest of the world can’t be as bad. I’m not sure what more information would do,
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 12/22/2014 @ 5:54 pmunless you think that enough of the low and middle ranking military might get ideas if they had more to work with.
Wishful thinking
NK goes South.
A shirt and everything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGvHnDeS12o
SarahW (267b14) — 12/22/2014 @ 6:01 pmI don’t think they have any idea how different conditions are in the rest of the world. They know about tyranny, but they don’t know about living standards, widely available inventions etc. They also don’t know how to escape.
Sammy Finkelman (1b38fa) — 12/22/2014 @ 6:04 pmThey never have, or at least 2,000 years’ worth of never. Autocratic oligarchies, with the peasantry basically slaves or beggars in abject poverty, for all their history. Communism is just a veneer for same-all-same.
nk (dbc370) — 12/22/2014 @ 6:13 pmI remember on old USSR story where the gubmint told the Ruskies that thing were so bad in the USA, that we were eating cat food. But it backfired because the populace were astounded that we mad food just for cats.
Gazzer (ae5179) — 12/22/2014 @ 6:15 pmIn soviet Russia, cats are food.
Well maybe not but I think NK has some of that cat-eating going on.
SarahW (267b14) — 12/22/2014 @ 6:44 pmNot nk nk, NK NK.
SarahW (267b14) — 12/22/2014 @ 6:45 pmMy Korean friend was going to surprise his wife by cooking dinner before she got home from work, but somebody let the cat out of the bag.
nk (dbc370) — 12/22/2014 @ 6:50 pmYou know dogs in different countries make different sounds (like American dogs say bow-wow and Grek dogs say wav-wav). Korean dogs make a sizzling sound.
nk (dbc370) — 12/22/2014 @ 6:53 pmMy wife visited China on business and said if you saw a dog tied to a lamppost, it was probably someone’s lunch. Hardly any birds around, either.
Gazzer (ae5179) — 12/22/2014 @ 6:54 pmA Korean couple is enjoying a quiet evening at home, when the husband breaks wind. His wife says, “That’s disusting!” “It was the dog”, he says. And she says, “Don’t blame the dog, you liar, it was cooked perfectly”.
nk (dbc370) — 12/22/2014 @ 6:56 pmLOL.
You people are bad.
BTW, in a country where people eat grass to survive, I’d guess North Korea’s internet consists of (to summon the joke about a primitive phone system) 2 cans and a string.
Mark (c160ec) — 12/22/2014 @ 7:10 pmhttps://twitter.com/DynResearch/status/547103312320151552/photo/1
Here’s a graph of NK internet activity during the day, Dec 22nd.
What’s interesting to me is the i/o, either on or off nature of the thing. All the servers come on at the same time, then drop out again, about half a dozen times.
What are the odds on that, unless there were only one? A whole country with only one portal.
The last thing you’d want to do as a citizen of NK is log into the internet. The NK gestapo would notice.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/22/2014 @ 7:57 pmThe portal is probably Kim Il Whichever’s laptop.
Seriously, I would be surprised if anyone outside a handful of well placed officials has anything like Internet access. And if they do, they probably are involved in external or ibternal spying.
kishnevi (3719b7) — 12/22/2014 @ 8:18 pm(I can never remember which Kim is which in that dynasty.
kishnevi (3719b7) — 12/22/2014 @ 8:20 pmKim Car Nes? Kim Kar Da-shian? Kim No Vak?
nk (dbc370) — 12/22/2014 @ 8:23 pmkishnevi,
If that’s so, then certainly that limits any real possibilities of an effective response, especially given that the population likely doesn’t own computers, let alone even know what the internet is or at least, have never gone on line. If it’s severely limited, then what?
Dana (8e74ce) — 12/22/2014 @ 8:24 pmHow about hacking that laptop so it does nothing but play videos of the speeches of Great American Dear Leader? Kim III will be amazed to find someone whose narcissism is greater than his.
kishnevi (3719b7) — 12/22/2014 @ 8:31 pmFor nk (our nk, that is) http://www.theatlantic.com/past/unbound/classrev/rkipling.htm
kishnevi (294553) — 12/22/2014 @ 8:37 pmhttp://www.asianjoke.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/dog-in-korea.jpg
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/22/2014 @ 8:50 pmFEAR THE PROPORTIONAL RESPONSE
JD (86a5eb) — 12/22/2014 @ 8:55 pmA group calling themselves Anonymous are now threatening to hack Sony further if they don’t release The Interview. They say NK did not hack Sony.
Dana (8e74ce) — 12/22/2014 @ 9:06 pmHey nk? What do you call a Korean who owns a dog?
What do you call a Korean who owns two dogs?
Simon Jester (cbb38f) — 12/22/2014 @ 9:13 pmI don’t know, Simon. What?
nk (dbc370) — 12/22/2014 @ 9:14 pmA Korean who owns a dog: a vegetarian.
A Korean who owns two dogs: a rancher.
Simon Jester (cbb38f) — 12/22/2014 @ 9:19 pmHeh!
Korean Home Economics class: Where the homework eats the dog.
nk (dbc370) — 12/22/2014 @ 9:20 pmo-fuktard, called the N.Koreans actions. Vandalism. When you or I say we are going to commit 9-11 style actions against the WHITE HOUSE………. IS THAT VANDALISM?
Gus (7cc192) — 12/22/2014 @ 10:53 pmObama is a FUKTARD and…YES, he’s a fuxing Marxist.
Imagine Kim Jung Un’s FEAR at PROPORTIONAL response. He’s laughing his Elvis/Dennis Rodman loving FAT ass off.
Gus (7cc192) — 12/22/2014 @ 10:55 pmDana (8e74ce) — 12/22/2014 @ 9:06 pm They must really want to see the movie.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/22/2014 @ 11:57 pmAnd using the correct leverage. Assessed and proven true.
Give your server a big thumbs up for extra butter.
From an AP story;
Only 1,024. Isn’t that the same number used in computer architecture? Maybe the threshold number for a gateway, so that maybe NK has only the one active IP on Jung Won’s laptop, with 1023 empty slots left over. Or maybe it’s the bottom number our boy in the Information Society can detect. Tightest resolution possible?
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/23/2014 @ 12:50 amMr Finkelman wrote:
Oh, good show! That’ll certainly teach them a lesson!
The Dana now confidant that justice will be done (f6a568) — 12/23/2014 @ 3:16 amMr Finkelman noted:
To take action, people must first have energy. With the widespread malnutrition in North Korea, the regime is perfectly safe, because the people don’t have the physical energy for an uprising.
Unfortunately, for the few who do escape, the only route is through China, and the Chinese sometimes return escapees. Those who do manage to get through China to Hong Kong, eventually try to make it to South Korea, and while the government welcomes the refugees, the South Korean people have little respect for the North Koreans, and discrimination is rampant.
The sadly realistic Dana (f6a568) — 12/23/2014 @ 3:22 amKim Jong-un’s office work station.
The sadly realistic Dana (f6a568) — 12/23/2014 @ 3:26 amNorth Korean nuclear weapons control system.
The sadly amused Dana (f6a568) — 12/23/2014 @ 3:27 amI’m getting the idea that it was China that shut off North Korea’s connection to the Internet.
(although they may have told Kim Jong Un, and told the U.S. that they told Kim Jong Un, that it was the United States.)
Reasons for China to do this would be:
1) To mollify the United States and prevent a stronger action.
2) To deflect blame from China – the hack was really run out of Shenyang, [Mukden] China in Liaoning Province about 200 miles northwest of the Yalu River.
Now they’ll pretend it was run out of North Korea, at least in part, and hacking that can be attributed to North Korea will stop for a while.
Sammy Finkelman (1b38fa) — 12/23/2014 @ 6:17 amThe sadly realistic Dana (f6a568) — 12/23/2014 @ 3:22 am
That’s on purpose. China deliberately made it a little bit easy, or possible, so that people should not try to go through the Demilitarized Zone.
Especially those that might go on to South Korea (or make it to the South Korean Embassy in Beijing)
They also don’t want to make the chances of escape look too good. They have even separated wives from husbands of Chinese ctizenship. (there are alot of ethnic Koreans near Korea)
They are regarded, or come across, as uneducated, backward, behind the times people, who even speak differently I think. And in Japanese times, (1910-1945) it was northern Korea that used to be more developed, being closer to Japan.
Sammy Finkelman (1b38fa) — 12/23/2014 @ 6:23 amOne thing that could be done by SONY, is when they release the movie, and they are going to stream it, they should add some video giving reasons why Kim Jong Un deserves to be assassinated. He’s only been in power for three years, of course, most of that is the regime, but he’s continued it, and killed a number of important people in North Korea.
Sammy Finkelman (1b38fa) — 12/23/2014 @ 6:26 ami’d rather see the movie about that lil hobbit feller
happyfeet (a037ad) — 12/23/2014 @ 8:41 amIf the response was weighted by the difference in the size of the US and Nork cyberspaces, you’d have to EMP them to be even close to proportional.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/23/2014 @ 9:08 amNo. They have the Battlestar Galactica internal network country-wide, with only one window and that one is in the only fat orphan’s office.
For a proportional responce the NK intranet would need to be hacked. Then Beldar’s plan could be enacted.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/23/2014 @ 9:41 amI like that music video where kim is like a little hobbit with his ring off.
SarahW (267b14) — 12/23/2014 @ 10:19 am@#20 from Beldar.
Excellent point and dead on. Closed societies fear the free flow of information. One benefit of the opening to Cuba will be an increase in the flow of ideas and the concept of true freedom. Once that genie is out of the bag, there’s no putting it back. The north Koreans, more than any other government, truly fear this.
Bill M (906260) — 12/23/2014 @ 10:33 amWell, flooding North Korea with contrary information would be like flooding the Democrat Party with economic theory. The cult members won’t look, and will report anyone who does.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/23/2014 @ 12:09 pm# 73 true dat.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/23/2014 @ 4:32 pmWhat the North Koreans really fear is not what their people might find out about the outside world, but what the poutside world might find out about them.
Because how would we be able to resist the call to overthrow the government?
Even now, already, someone has proposed that:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/richard-haass-time-to-end-the-north-korean-threat-for-good-1419376266
Sammy Finkelman (1b38fa) — 12/25/2014 @ 5:20 pmhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/12/24/north-korea-loses-in-d-c-circuit/
Sammy Finkelman (1b38fa) — 12/28/2014 @ 5:35 pm