Kaci Hickox: Doing What She Wants, No Matter How It Impacts Others
[guest post by Dana]
After winning a court reprieve, nurse Kaci Hickox continues to self-monitor in Fort Kent, Maine. The judge who rejected the Ebola quarantine urged Hickox to wisely “demonstrate her full understanding of human nature and the real fear that exists.” And the fear does exist in her town, and it is negatively impacting local businesses and the local medical center:
The situation “is bound to affect the whole town,” Steve Daigle, owner of Stevie D’s Panini Plus said Friday. “The economy around here is already so fragile, every dollar we lose hurts us.”
Daigle said he has spoken to several customers who have told him they plan to shop out of town until the 21-day incubation period for the virus ends for Hickox on Nov. 10.
“People are afraid,” Daigle said.
On Friday, another business owner in Fort Kent, who did not want to give his name, said he, too, has heard from customers planning to shop out of town in the wake of the Ebola concerns.
A local dentist also voiced his displeasure that Hickox has not committed to home quarantine.
“I think that is very irresponsible of her,” Dr. Lucien Daigle said. “She cannot guarantee 100 percent she will not become symptomatic [and] in that worst-case scenario the ramifications will be beyond what you can imagine.”
There already has been an adverse impact, Daigle said, pointing out the numerous cancellations of routine and elective procedures at Northern Maine Medical Center.
Earlier this week Peter Sirois, chief executive officer at NMMC, said the hospital had dealt with 10 such cancellations on Tuesday alone.
“It’s not acceptable she is doing this,” Daigle said. “Especially from a health care provider; why would she want to do this?”
Daigle also suggests that the negative attention is actually distracting from the noble work Hickox did fighting Ebola in Sierra Leone. Further:
He said it is understandable people in Fort Kent are concerned and they should not be faulted for that.
“People are very caring around here,” he said. “But don’t put them at risk.”
Fort Kent Police Chief Tom Pelletier is assured of Hickox’s compliance as she has stated she has no plans to go into town to shop or dine:
“[Hickox] is working in good faith with the professional health care workers,” Pelletier told the media as he and the CDC staffer returned to the SUV a few minutes later.
“They understand the sentiment in the community, and they do not want to be disruptive,” Pelletier said.
For his part, Gov. Paul LePage disagrees:
“She’s violated every promise she’s made so far, so I can’t trust her,” he said Friday, answering reporters’ questions after a news conference celebrating a business opening in Yarmouth. “I don’t trust her.”
(pic via Weasel Zippers)
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (8e74ce) — 11/1/2014 @ 2:53 pmpelletier, seems as solid of Sheriff Dufus, of Tucson fame,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:03 pmI thought I understood her initial problem with the quarantine. She was tired, frustrated, confused and being treated poorly. She thought she was doing something noble and came home to be treated like a criminal. I get that, but after being flown to her home, she’s still doing this? I have no idea what is motivating her. I’d like to know why she is really doing this. Any guesses?
Jim C (bf5f98) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:04 pmYet again, we seem to be faced with an individual who has compassion yet not empathy … she is able to express her own compassion (going to help African Ebola sufferers) yet apparently cannot feel any empathy for her neighbours who are scared of what Ebola can do …
One of the best ways to prevent Ebola is to prevent it spreading … and, in a western industrialised comparatively prosperous country, the isolation of quarantine is minimal, with telephone, radio, TV, Internet all contributing to communication without physical proximity … there is no need to leave a contained area for food or other needs, necessarily, either …
Perhaps this is just another Nurse Ratched personality ?
Alastor (2e7f9f) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:16 pmAlastor,
You bring up a good point about first-world quarantine: one never has to be completely out of touch with family and loved ones, or with the world at large, thanks to technological advances.
Consider if that were the same with the astronauts whose protocols included a mandatory 21-day quarantine after being on the surface of the moon – because erring on the side of caution was the reasonable choice to make:
Dana (8e74ce) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:22 pmmeanwhile, back here on Earf, the CDC issues today’s set in stone Obola guidance.
because *TOP* men & women are on the case…
lying ba5tards.
redc1c4 (269d8e) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:27 pmShe’s a leftwing, Obama supporter, Jim C. Who knows what motivates any of them other than an insatiable need for attention and self-aggrandizement.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:27 pmand an utter contempt for the masses they were born to rule over.
redc1c4 (269d8e) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:27 pmWonder what the reaction would be if the Governor, who is up for reelection Tuesday, sent a National Guard Medical Unit detachment to her neighborhood?
askeptic (efcf22) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:30 pm“I have no idea what is motivating her.”
She is a Democrat Party activist and an employee of the CDC.
I think we know who is motivating her.
someguy (37038b) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:30 pmShe and the governor should have a pizza.
butlerj (8df702) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:31 pmSmug, moral arrogance.
Craig Mc (299f38) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:32 pm9- …more rambling thoughts…
Perhaps the Governor should have just declared a State of Emergency, and locked down her neighborhood, using the NG, setting up a perimeter around her property?
askeptic (efcf22) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:36 pmConcertina always looks good.
Let the Court deal with that.
Somewhere I saw a wide angle version of the pic that’s shown heading this post. You will notice she’s staring to the side with her mouth open. That is cuz she’s speaking to one of the six or eight reporters who were surrounding her –only a couple feet or so away from her bike –with cameras and microphones on retractable poles. There are a lot of
elissa (2a0148) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:39 pmidiotsfearless sciency people in Maine, apparently.Typical liberal… her intentions – at least toward herself – are good, which she values highly, the results play a distant second fiddle.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:45 pmI have no idea what is motivating her. I’d like to know why she is really doing this. Any guesses?
Jim C (bf5f98) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:04 pm
She’s a woman. Just try telling a woman to do something because you know better than she does. Pobrecito! If women followed advice because it was the right thing to do, we’d still be in the Garden of Eden.
It was a good move by the governor to say he did not trust her to do what she was supposed to do. A very good move. Now she will do exactly just what she’s supposed to do just to spite him. And, also, because if she does not the judge will order her confined. Judges do not like to be made to look foolish.
I’ll wait a little bit before I turn on my “Your feelings do not entitle you to a forfeiture of my freedom” switch.
nk (dbc370) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:46 pmdifferent day… different tune.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:47 pmOne characteristic of today’s progressives is that they explicitly reject all forms of classical learning. And they reject this knowledge without knowing what constitutes its essence. Women’s Studies, the “analysis” of sexual deviancy, the deconstruction of selected part of Western Culture are all done to support the premise that anything they want to do, they can do. And they can do it without consequence. The springboard for this arrogance is the rational explanation of the benefit of many Biblical prohibitions … eating pork, sodomy … that modern science has provided. Given that we understand why these prohibitions make sense (trichinosis, AIDS) they presume that explanations and cures will be provided by science for everything else. So, while knowing virtually nothing of modern science, they presume that it allows them to proceed headlong into Wonderland. They are the Peter Pan generation. I just wish they would convince themselves that they can fly … and have the courage to put that conviction to the test.
bobathome (7da0f6) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:50 pmIs the bike helmet on backwards in that picture?
Talk about the “me generation!”
She knows it all, doesn’t care about anyone else, and is going to do what she pleases regardless of the costs.
I expect her neighbors now have a better understanding if who she really is and I doubt here “welcome” in town will quickly recover, even if no one else ever gets sick.
WarEagle82 (b18ccf) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:51 pmHello Dana – Kaci’s Ebola fighting nurse roommate in Sierra Leone got the Ebola and they don’t know how that happened. Cautionary tales like that should not deter our Special Snowflake Kaci from shining like the diamond she is in her mind, regardless of the impact on others.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:52 pm@ nk,
Now look what you’ve done: you’ve pulled the curtain back. So, yes, behind the soft skin lies a will of iron and cleverness beyond men – as Eve so aptly demonstrated.
Dana (8e74ce) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:54 pmWill she ever be employed as a nurse again?
Denver Todd (fe903f) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:58 pmRemember, her lawyer Norman Siegel just happens to have White House connections (he recently attended a State Dinner there on Feb. 11, 2014 ). The more I think about it I think that they thought this would all fit nicely into the pre-election War on Women propaganda. But it’s backfired to a great degree because she is both unlikable and uncooperative.
elissa (2a0148) — 11/1/2014 @ 3:59 pmHell, she’ll probably get her own reality show on the tube.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/1/2014 @ 4:00 pmfrom the Groupman link at the end of the other thread, ‘we’re not really sure exactly what is the exact method of transmission,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/1/2014 @ 4:01 pm“Remember, her lawyer Norman Siegel just happens to have White House connections”
elissa – Also former head of the NYC ACLU. Kaci knows people. 🙂
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/1/2014 @ 4:05 pmIn Chicago, she’d go to the alderman to put in the fix.
nk (dbc370) — 11/1/2014 @ 4:12 pmIt’s interesting that we’ve been reprimanded about quarantines not conveying a dignity and respect to those returning from the very honorable work of fighting Ebola in West Africa as it can discourage them from returning to the front lines, and yet one is compelled to wonder how much damage Hickox herself is doing with her immensely self-serving attitude? There is a risk that her colleagues may themselves turn on her. She is not the poster child for a gracious rebellion.
Dana (8e74ce) — 11/1/2014 @ 4:19 pmFurther, as public confidence in the authorities erodes with regard to Ebola and protocols, the risk of public backlash is even greater. Her behavior is certainly not helping the administration’s messaging, rather the opposite as the administration did not support her blowing off the voluntary quarantine. Also, the president was just in Maine for an event and opted not to visit Hickox. Not even a photo op. In what world does this president not take advantage of anything that could be perceived as positive optics?
Dana (8e74ce) — 11/1/2014 @ 4:28 pmfort bend maine is pretty remote, If she does spread ebola, it will be quickly contained. Unlike dallas, whereby one contact can quickly spread to a few thousand contacts in a couple of days. So let chill.
joe (93323e) — 11/1/2014 @ 4:39 pmI don’t know what to think about her when I see her on the TV I like her
happyfeet (fff228) — 11/1/2014 @ 5:03 pmI like all these comments, particularly bobathome. The term science is thrown around all the time as if it’s the same as fact. This woman says that the quarantine isn’t based on science as if science has given us definitive answers to any of this. Science is often confused as fact. I’m particularly frustrated by its use in schools. Scientific conclusions are presented as facts when they are not the same. The woman obviously confuses the two.
Jim C (bf5f98) — 11/1/2014 @ 5:11 pmwell it’s on the Canadian border, so I’m sure Harper is copacetic, not
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/1/2014 @ 5:11 pmWhat exactly do you like about her? Do you feel she’s being responsible? Selfish? Independent?
hadoop (f7d5ba) — 11/1/2014 @ 5:13 pmOther people on the tv I like are include Nina Dobrev and Charles Dance but not Chance Crawford
happyfeet (fff228) — 11/1/2014 @ 5:14 pmShe just seems like a fun person
happyfeet (fff228) — 11/1/2014 @ 5:15 pm*chace* crawford I mean
happyfeet (fff228) — 11/1/2014 @ 5:25 pm#30 Joe: So you’re figuring Fort Bend is a 20,000 KTon problem … as in Hiroshima?
bobathome (7da0f6) — 11/1/2014 @ 5:29 pmMake that 20 Kton …
bobathome (7da0f6) — 11/1/2014 @ 5:31 pmShe turned me into a newt.
nk (dbc370) — 11/1/2014 @ 5:34 pmCharles Dance, where has he been, the last thing was that Dracula movie, that MD saw.
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/1/2014 @ 5:38 pmI want to smack her one.
Um… with a long stick.
To clarify, after watching her self serving interview, in wake of the judge letting her walk amongst us.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 11/1/2014 @ 5:46 pmKaci will get a job handing out the pill to needy women like Sandra Fluke.
mg (6ab3e9) — 11/1/2014 @ 5:51 pmI wonder if this nurse could be trying to use her situation to educate and influence the public about ebola safety and health care workers. She works for the CDC, has experience with ebola in Africa, and is a nurse, so she may think she knows everything she needs to know about ebola safety. Maybe she does but then I remember experiences with a few doctors and nurses who were sure they knew it all, and didn’t. Sometimes a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 11/1/2014 @ 5:55 pmhe’s on the game of thrones Mr narciso
happyfeet (fff228) — 11/1/2014 @ 5:55 pmHere’s a link for daley’s report about her roommate getting ebola, but it also says the exposure time has passed:
To me, the relevance of this information is that even trained CDC health care workers can get infected without realizing they did anything to expose themselves to ebola.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:02 pmDRJ!
I hope she does not think she knows everything she needs to know about Ebola safety because that would make her a complete and utter idiot. I hope that she only just wants everybody to play by the rules. And that now she will too. She lost this case on the merits. To analogize it to a criminal case, she was convicted. She was sentenced to probation with conditions because the judge thought that was all that was required for the protection of society, but if she proves him wrong her probation can be revoked and she can be confined.
nk (dbc370) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:08 pmDRJ- uh oh!!
mg (6ab3e9) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:10 pmThere’s a story on Hot Air about aggressive young panhandlers screwing up warm city tourist traps. Here’s a quote.
Who does that remind you of?
papertiger (c2d6da) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:11 pmUpstate New York is beautiful.
mg (6ab3e9) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:13 pmAt least the insufferable twit was silent today.
Hopefully she’s not feeling sick or anything! BWAHAHAHAHA.
Patricia (5fc097) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:17 pmI hope that she only just wants everybody to play by the rules.
Infuriating that a squadron of reporters are camped on her doorstep, leading her with babysteps to say the right thing to assuage the concerns of her neighbors, and yet after listening to her blather on at length, we still have nothing but a hope she gets it.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:17 pmBY listening to her, I got the feeling she leans the other way. Toward obstinately not getting it.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:22 pm“To me, the relevance of this information is that even trained CDC health care workers can get infected without realizing they did anything to expose themselves to ebola.”
DRJ – That is exactly why I mentioned it. I think it was important to have in the petition to the court – Kaci’s roommate, another trained professional got infected and they have not been able to trace how – Kaci’s certainty that she does not have the disease is completely misplaced based on her first hand experience.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:25 pmwhat clique of chimps came up with the judges decision, it clearly was not focused on public health questions,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:27 pmnarciso – The judge certainly did not stint in his praise of Kaci.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:37 pmnk,
Obviously I don’t know what she’s thinking, but these statements by Hickox and her attorney make me think she’s trying to educate us:
DRJ (a83b8b) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:38 pmFort Kent has a population density of 76 people per sq. mile. A square mile is 64 city blocks. In comparison, Manhattan has 71,000 residents per square mile and a business day population of 171,000 per sq. mile.
Same rules of confinement for both places?
nk (dbc370) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:42 pmThat’s cause there’s more people in Manhattan Mr. nk
happyfeet (fff228) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:43 pmI posted my 57 before I saw your 58, DRJ. Much better said.
nk (dbc370) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:45 pmI’m an expert. Trust me.
Nurse Twoface is talking out of both of them.
Can I smack her please?
papertiger (c2d6da) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:50 pmMy daughter West Point roommate is one of the MP officers over there – everyone please keep her and the rest of our precious children, moms, dads, brothers, and sisters in your thoughts and prayers.
EPWJ (29d77c) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:56 pmMy daughter’s West Point
EPWJ (29d77c) — 11/1/2014 @ 6:56 pmI thought she was related to North West at first.
Gazzer (cb9ee2) — 11/1/2014 @ 7:16 pmThe daughter and I discussed this guy and whether I would go that far. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/12/scott-mackintosh-dad-short-shorts_n_3912940.html
nk (dbc370) — 11/1/2014 @ 7:33 pmWrong thread. Sorry. Stuck control key.
nk (dbc370) — 11/1/2014 @ 7:34 pm“The judge in Maine gave her a gentle rebuke in his ruling.”
DRJ – The judge made no comment on Kaci’s public statement before the ruling that she planned to ignore requested restrictions on her movements from the state.
Here is the petition filed by the state, which IMHO could have been much stronger:
http://www.courts.maine.gov/news_reference/high_profile/hickox/verified_petition_for_public_health_order.pdf
Here is the judge’s ruling:
http://www.courts.maine.gov/news_reference/high_profile/hickox/order_pending_hearing.pdf
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/1/2014 @ 7:34 pmI say again, how does he come to that result:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2817412/Manager-bio-hazard-company-hired-cleanup-Ebola-doctor-exposed-former-mortgage-scammer.html
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/1/2014 @ 7:38 pmnarciso – Confused as to how Spencer and Hickox are connected?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 11/1/2014 @ 7:53 pmhow long did it take Spencer to become symptomatic, six days, about as many as that case in Oregon.
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/1/2014 @ 8:10 pmIf Kaci is infected with EVD, the judge should be required to care for her 24×7 until she recovers or expires. He should then be quarantined for 42 days, just to make the point that it isn’t within his purview to endanger everyone in his community just to prove he’s a post-modern jurist. And if she is EVD-free two months from now, I hope the good people of Fort Bend have the opportunity to vote this toad out of office. What Kaci believes has very little to do with whether she is infected. Ditto the judge. Or else no one need ever be infected.
bobathome (7da0f6) — 11/1/2014 @ 8:14 pmJudges can take judicial notice of general public sentiment. Even generally known facts like “Budweiser is a beer”. But that story you linked, narciso, would have had to be admitted into evidence. And hearsay, relevance, and materiality are three reasons that immediately come to mind why it would not have been. Not in any American court.
nk (dbc370) — 11/1/2014 @ 8:20 pmThis might be appropriate:
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/1/2014 @ 8:23 pmhttp://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/current
narcisco (#68): The Ghost Buster’s hearse was much more photogenic than the truck used by Bio Recovery, but Salvatore Pane is a bit of an improve over Bill Murray. But can he act, direct, and write? That is the question. New York is certainly a land of opportunity for the right kind of person.
bobathome (7da0f6) — 11/1/2014 @ 8:25 pma fair point, well they are better than the Dallas spray cleaners, the Groopman piece, on the vectors of trasmission, are more on point,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/1/2014 @ 8:31 pmI hope one day when she looks for a job outside the federal gov (she is CDC employee I understand) that NO ONE WILL HIRE HER because she is unethical and cant be trusted.
Susan Harms (c7dded) — 11/2/2014 @ 2:46 am“I hope one day when she looks for a job outside the federal gov (she is CDC employee I understand) that NO ONE WILL HIRE HER because she is unethical and cant be trusted.”
It’s almost as is her whole point is to make it so that others aren’t chilled from volunteering in West Africa.
butlerj (8df702) — 11/2/2014 @ 3:17 amThat’s where I part company from just about everybody. Except papertiger I guess. I don’t think encouraging people to volunteer for West Africa is a legitimate governmental interest to be balanced against the public safety and general welfare concerns of the State of Maine, or of any other state or local community. It should play no part in the analysis at all. This should be strictly “How big a danger is this individual to the community and what should we do about it?”
nk (dbc370) — 11/2/2014 @ 3:43 ambutlerj-
It seems to me you are making a classic Obama style straw man
the choice is not between
encourage people to volunteer to help West Africa
or
make their lives miserable
One can both encourage people to help in West Africa and have an abundance of caution when they come back so people here are not nervous and applaud their service.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/2/2014 @ 5:01 amYes, MD, as many other doctors from other organizations are happily doing. They are in self-quarantine or in the group’s own facility.
They don’t feel the need to teach us a lesson.
Patricia (5fc097) — 11/2/2014 @ 5:35 amI guess the question becomes rhetorical:
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014/10/31/maine-says-nurse-hickoxs-roommate-had-ebola/
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/2/2014 @ 7:04 am‘restoring the proper place of science:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/11/cdc-does-it-again-on-friday-6-ft-sneeze-droplet-could-infect-now-they-say-coughing-sneezing-cant-infect/
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/2/2014 @ 8:03 am“One can both encourage people to help in West Africa and have an abundance of caution when they come back so people here are not nervous and applaud their service.”
If the governor wants people to not be nervous he should have a pizza with her.
butlerj (8df702) — 11/2/2014 @ 8:24 amwasn’t funny the second time either, butters.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/2/2014 @ 8:33 amI didn’t know either the Maine governor or Kaci were into pizza. See that’s why I come here. To learn.
elissa (630ebc) — 11/2/2014 @ 8:37 amI didn’t think they would be doing it because they like pizza.
butlerj (8df702) — 11/2/2014 @ 8:42 am70. narciso (ee1f88) — 11/1/2014 @ 8:10 pm
how long did it take Spencer to become symptomatic, six days,
From what I read, he left the clinic, or treated his last patient, on Sunday, October 12. He took a plane from Guinea to Belguim on Tuesday, October 14. He took a plane from Belguim to New York on Friday October 17. He felt somewhat fatigued on Tuesday, October 21, but had no fever. He was out and about on Wedensday, October 22, and his fiancee took their clothing to the dry cleaner.
On Thursday morning, October 23, he woke up with stomach pain, vomited, and his temperature was 100.3 -not 103 degrees as was at first erroneously reported, and so actually below the level they said to report, which even now is 100.4, or 38 degreees Celsius – and he called Doctors Without Borders.
From October 12 to October 23 is 11 days.
I think it is possible he actually got infected later than October 12 – possibly at the airport, or in the city of Conakry, Guinea.
It has not been confirmed that the Liberian woman in Portland, Oregon has ebola. Her fever is going down. It would be interesting to know if maybe she has ebola antibodies in her body. Or was this maybe Lassa fever, instead, or something more prosaic?
Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 11/2/2014 @ 9:07 amabout as many as that case in Oregon.
77. butlerj (8df702) — 11/2/2014 @ 3:17 am
Almost???
That is almost certainly the entire purpose of this grandstanding. To try to get authorities – and the public in general – to treat medical people returning from the ebola zone with less fear. She goes about and does things, like shaking a reporter’s hands, and proves nothing happens. She herself has lost the ability to feel normal for the next week or so, irregardless.
Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 11/2/2014 @ 9:12 amWhen asked if her roommate had Ebola, the nurse said “that’s not true, and I refuse to discuss it.”
Hmmm…..
Patricia (5fc097) — 11/2/2014 @ 1:02 pm