Patterico's Pontifications

10/23/2014

A New Wave Of Islam

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:52 am



[guest post by Dana]

Via Instapundit comes this interesting report:

According to the Latino American Dawah Organization (LADO), more Hispanics are turning towards Islam and interestingly, more than half of Miami’s 3,000 Hispanic Muslims are female.

In such a concentration of Hispanics, one assumes the population would be firmly rooted in Catholicism, so what might motivate such conversions?

Arriving from Miami four years ago, Torres said she had “lost her identity in the move and found it in the Prophet Muhammad”, according to a report on Voice of America.

Torres explained: “It was very hard for me because we do not have family here, just my husband and my kids. On this day, my baby – Mahdi – he was going to be born. That is why I converted to Islam because I was scared.”

Stephanie Londono, a well educated woman, published a study on the occurrence, referring to the conversion of Latinas to Islam as “‘Recovering Cultural Memory’, ‘Re-interpreting the past’ and ‘Breaking normative Colonial Representation/Stereotypes’.” Per Londono:

Wearing a hijab is, in her words, a ‘civic engagement’ that she feels passionate about.

“When people see you with the hijab, they respect you first. Second, it’s the emotion you feel because you are different. You believe in something. It’s amazing.” Londono said.

“It defines their world on a clear grid of what’s permitted or ‘halal,’ and what’s prohibited which is ‘haram’. So they know exactly where they stand. So the Qur’an becomes this guidebook that tells you exactly what to wear, what to eat, how to wash, how to behave, when to pray.”

It’s interesting there is no mention of love, mercy or grace when she speaks of her religion and adherence to it. Also interesting is her belief that it is the garb that garners respect, not the person. Further, along with respect, she wants to be seen as “different”- unique, distinct – but the way she believes she achieves this is by being fully obedient to an instruction book of severe rules and by living under a law – rules and laws that all other Muslims are required to follow, thus making them all the same.

–Dana

97 Responses to “A New Wave Of Islam”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  2. The thing that jumps out at me is that she’s hungry for strict rules, feeling different, etc– but she couldn’t find those in the Church. The same one that “extremists” like myself are told needs to stop caring about rules and care about feeeeeeelings because it’s more loving to encourage someone in a bad path than to make them feel bad.

    A lot of Bishops have decided that we can’t even allow the groups that cater to the desire for sacrifice of self, because it will drive people away. (Without getting too in depth, there are ways for non-nuns to join religious orders; you follow additional rules, basically. I’ve been a Catholic since I was a baby and hadn’t heard about it, it’s so messed around with.)

    Stepping back from the personal, I’m a little surprised looking back that there hasn’t been more of an effort to get “Latino” converts– Spain was once ruled by Islam, so that’s kind of a burr under their saddle.

    Foxfier (43c452)

  3. Special Islamic Snowflake will now take her position as Beast of Burden in the true Islamic culture.

    Colonel Haiku (b624c3)

  4. After 60 years of Castro, Cubans are anything but “rooted in Catholicism”. And there were Muslims in Cuba before Castro made it illegal. You can tell by their names. I know one named Osmani.

    For her to convert to Islam means her husband is a Muslim. It is haram for a Muslim woman to be married to a non-Muslim. (It’s ok for a Muslim man to have a non-Muslim wife.) A wife taking her husband’s religion can happen in the best of families. “Arriving from Miami”? To Indonesia? Maybe the husband is from there, or maybe the whole family adopted their new country’s religion like John Kerry’s grandparents did.

    Anyway, this publication is Indonesian Islam softsell fluff. I thought it was a parody at first. Take it with a grain of salt. But Noor looks very sexy in the new style of hijab on the sidebar.

    As for what women want from their religion, who in Allah’s 999 names knows what they want about anything at all? 😉 But security and belonging are usually a pretty good guess.

    nk (dbc370)

  5. “The heart is restless until it finds its rest in Thee”.
    There are many side roads, detours, and deceitful imposters on the way finding that rest.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  6. Greetings:

    Once again, Islam is the millstone. It is nothing more than the globalization of 7th Century predatory Arab tribal culture under a thin veneer of religion. And if your plan doesn’t include constraining, undermining, or eradicating Islam, you don’t have a plan. what you have is a hope.

    11B40 (844d04)

  7. more than half of Miami’s 3,000 Hispanic Muslims are female

    There’s no accounting for stupid.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  8. Muslims from the Middle East and North Africa who have jumped the boat marry poor Hispanic women to get a green card, and the women convert to try to keep them after the two years have gone by and they can now be dumped, would be another of my guesses.

    nk (dbc370)

  9. This is such an interesting discussion. Let me quote Dustin’s comment from the Attacks in Canada post from yesterday in response to something I wrote:

    There is an interesting correlation between recent converts to Islam and a predilection towards violence. The Oklahoma beheader, some of the known ISIS pendejos, and others. Maybe the trick is to pay special attention to those young men who are flocking to the religion, and to quit letting Islamic groups recruit in prisons.

    JVW (60ca93)

    There’s something to that. Also in the military itself. I think I’d been in Korea for about three hours before someone tried to tell me about Islam (upon seeing my nametape with a Persian name on it). The pernicious thing about radical Islam is that there is merit in Islam. There are good Muslim folks with good values. It’s easy to write the whole thing off as crazy terrorism cult if you’re totally insulated from it, but in the real world it’s simply more complicated. I did not find changing religions appealing as I was happy with my own views, which were Christian.

    I don’t say that to pretend there isn’t a radical islam that inspires a lot of violence and misery and oppression. But I can imagine someone in prison being sold on Islam, learning the wise aspects and the appealing aspects that have appealed to a lone, unhappy man for hundreds of years. If The Man starts pushing back, that would probably radicalize the prisoner, much as the teenage daughter fawns over the boy her mom hates most.

    My point: there’s a vacuum in society. It’s the need for God in our lives. It’s an innate need that I think modern culture pretends isn’t there. Someone who has no religion will find Islam immediately appealing, because they need spiritual relief. Especially folks in prison, who experience so much ugliness around them, and surely feel an intense need for redemption.

    I’m not saying it’s a bad idea to keep track of recent converts to Islam who are young men. I am saying it’s a shame Christianity doesn’t have the same effort in prisons to evangelize. I’ve never heard of a prisoner trying to win other prisoners over to Christ. I’m sure it happens, but it needs to be an organized fight. Doing it from the prison admin side would be unconstitutional and surely futile anyway.

    I know some Catholics who engage in prison ministry so I think Christian churches do in fact try to engage the incarcerated, but it seems that Muslims do a much better job of winning converts. Part of that probably has racial overtones — it’s easier for Muslims to suggest to black prisoners that Islam is a part of their natural heritage and that Christianity is a legacy of the slave trade and imperialist missionaries. And Islam is a religion that, like Christianity and other faiths, demands a level of discipline, but Islam seems to be even more rigid in their demands and less willing to accept deviance from orthodoxy. Christians generally understand that man is a sinful being who has been given free will by God, and though he should try to perfect himself in the eyes of the Lord, it is ultimately something that is unattainable. Islam appears to believe that man can perfect himself in the eyes of Allah, so that the struggle for perfection is all the more intense. That probably appeals to someone who has a history of running afoul of the law, certainly more so than the idea that you are destined to sin again.

    And Dana, your point about Islam being about discipline, obedience, and struggle as opposed to the Christian vision of love, forgiveness, and joy rings true too. Notice that the woman who converted to Islam talks about being lost and alone. Religion is good at helping to fill empty vessels, but Islam being very much about surrendering to the will of Allah is probably appealing to someone who feels overwhelmed. I think that’s reflected in the quote from the academic about knowing exactly what is halal and haram.

    JVW (60ca93)

  10. MD offered a great example of Christian evangelism in prisons, and I didn’t mean to diminish those successes or the effort.

    Maybe my guess that it’s about the source of evangelism is wrong, but as JVW says, it appears Muslims are doing a better job winning converts. I didn’t consider the racial overtone aspect, but yeah, that’s probably part of it.

    Christians generally understand that man is a sinful being who has been given free will by God, and though he should try to perfect himself in the eyes of the Lord, it is ultimately something that is unattainable. Islam appears to believe that man can perfect himself in the eyes of Allah, so that the struggle for perfection is all the more intense. That probably appeals to someone who has a history of running afoul of the law, certainly more so than the idea that you are destined to sin again.

    That sounds right to me. There may be something about the different views that appeal to different people. One reason there aren’t as many devout Christian prisoners taking the opportunity to tell their cellmates about Christ might be that they aren’t in prison.

    No easy solutions. But also, very few open discussions like this one. I think there has been a lot of denial about whether we are in struggle between the modern world and fundamentalist Islam. Not because of political correctness, but because of western arrogance that sees the jihad against the west as futile.

    Dustin (801032)

  11. Follow their prophet’s example and wind up in prison with the “short eyes” jacket!

    Colonel Haiku (b624c3)

  12. well we know of AbdulRahman Alamoudi, who was behind the training of the Islamic chaplains, and the string of mosques from Oklahoma City, where Nolen practiced to Boston, where the Tsarnaev’s were

    narciso (ee1f88)

  13. FWIW- Islam is a religion that appeals to pride and wanting to prove oneself or prove something about oneself to others.
    Christianity is a religion based on humility, left to ourselves we are a mess, but God in His mercy will accept us and make something out of our mess.

    Of course, Christianity gets tainted with pride and self-righteousness all of the time, but that is a bug, not a feature.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  14. Were there some posts which no longer appear in this thread?

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  15. 14.Were there some posts which no longer appear in this thread?
    on the other thread, sorry

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  16. Christianity is a religion based on humility, left to ourselves we are a mess, but God in His mercy will accept us and make something out of our mess.

    Of course, Christianity gets tainted with pride and self-righteousness all of the time, but that is a bug, not a feature.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

    That is very well said. I tried to convey that but gave up. Christianity is a tougher sell.

    Dustin (801032)

  17. Islam is submission. It is “no man may serve two masters” more extremely practiced. God comes first in everything; and everything happens according to His will. From what I’ve read about Islam’s Devil, he is a disobedient child that torments the descendants of Adam; not an Adversary of God like ours. I suppose it can be called “pride” to be so certain of Gods’ will. And it is hard on one’s neighbors to have a belief that is exclusive and intolerant of other beliefs and proselytizing, all at the same time.

    nk (dbc370)

  18. Islam also appeals to the desire for power. Christianity is not a macho religion. It is a hard sell in prisons because the prison culture is about the strong controlling the weak – power and conquering strength is the currency of survival. Prisoners turning to Islam can take up the sword without a second thought, because their prophet was a warrior king.

    OmegaPaladin (a0e77e)

  19. A lot of Hispanics are moving away from Catholcism, or just not being brought up in the first place as Catholics, although it is usually toward evangelical Protestanism, or Seventh Day Adventists or something like that.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  20. I think pride is in the idea that one can behave in such a way as to earn God’s acceptance.
    For a Christian, even if one had a complete knowledge of God’s will, one would be aware of a profound and complete dependence on God to have the understanding, and to even move a little finger in accordance with God’s will.

    In Islam, as I understand it, a person can boast of having earned paradise;
    in Christianity salvation is by grace, lest anyone should boast.

    If I “know” I can earn God’s approval, then you should be able to earn it as well and tough if you don’t.
    If I know I exist as a beneficiary of mercy, then I have reason to be merciful as well.

    As an aside, I wonder if/how this parallels Japanese thought in their having no sense of mercy towards POW’s.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  21. MD in Philly said: “16.Christianity is a religion based on humility”

    Perhaps that’s part of it but I prefer to think Christianity is a religion based of “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

    If you believe one should be decapitated for being a Christian then you should have no problem being decapitated for NOT being a Christian.

    If you believe that a person should be free to practice his sexual proclivities without being bullied, then you should believe a person should be able to follow his religious beliefs without being bullied also.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  22. Some would say there is a degree of Islamic thought in the fatalismo of Hispanic Catholicism, God’s will is what it is and we have no recourse,
    which is not what classical Christianity would say in regards to God’s sovereignty.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  23. Certainly true, Hoagie. I think probably no single compare/contrast, no matter how profound, is likely to be the whole picture.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  24. Stephanie Londono, a well educated woman, published a study on the occurrence, referring to the conversion of Latinas to Islam as “‘Recovering Cultural Memory’, ‘Re-interpreting the past’ and ‘Breaking normative Colonial Representation/Stereotypes’.” Per Londono:

    “…So the Qur’an becomes this guidebook that tells you exactly what to wear, what to eat, how to wash, how to behave, when to pray.”

    Who is telling this “well educated” Londono chiquita what words should be coming out of her pretty little veiled and empty head? Because none of that is in the Quran. You would not know one thing about the nuts and bolts of being a Muslim if all you had is the Quran.

    This is why reformist-minded Muslims (or those who practice Taqqiyah when they realize they’re talking to a non-Muslim who has read the Quran) claim to be Quran-only Muslims.

    Because what to wear, how to wash, how to behave, when to pray, how many times to pray, how to go on Hajj, how much to tithe, and perhaps most relevant to us dhimmi refuseniks the really blood thirsty jihad instruction is in the Sunnah. The sirah and hadith literature.

    Steve57 (ed9502)

  25. FWIW- Islam is a religion that appeals to pride and wanting to prove oneself or prove something about oneself to others.
    Christianity is a religion based on humility, left to ourselves we are a mess, but God in His mercy will accept us and make something out of our mess.

    Of course, Christianity gets tainted with pride and self-righteousness all of the time, but that is a bug, not a feature.

    One set of irrational beliefs is on no more solid ground than another. That you version doesn’t result in suicide bombings is nice, but it is the only redeeming quality. Your religion is not based on humility. It is based on human sacrifice thankfully only one.

    What could be less humble than to think this entire cosmos was created so that you could be here for you – so that the almighty creator could love you and have a relationship with you?

    Gil (c39449)

  26. Stephanie Londono, a well educated woman, published a study on the occurrence, referring to the conversion submission of Latinas to Islam as “‘Recovering Cultural Memory’, ‘Re-interpreting the past’ and ‘Breaking normative Colonial Representation/Stereotypes’.”

    That’s better.

    felipe (40f0f0)

  27. While we are on the topic of religion,
    most “apologetics” books tend to be by philosophers or scientists or theologians,
    here is one by a lawyer,
    David Skeel is a law prof at Penn, here is a book by him.
    http://www.amazon.com/True-Paradox-Christianity-Makes-Complex/dp/0830836764/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414108091&sr=8-1&keywords=skeel+true+paradox
    I just ordered one through the Amazon widget (I could have obtained an autographed copy, but I would have had to travel down to Penn to hear him give a presentation).

    If we knew Gil’s mailing address, maybe we could fill his mailbox with copies as Christmas presents.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  28. Pearls before swine, doc.

    felipe (40f0f0)

  29. “What could be less humble than to think this entire cosmos was created so that you could be here for you – so that the almighty creator could love you and have a relationship with you?”

    I know!… I know!… to think that one has it all figured out and always shares less than informed opinions in a snidely insulting manner that fails to mask one’s feelings of worthlessness and poor self-image?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  30. I really am starting to believe that infidels killing Muslims is not as bad as Muslims killings infidels. Still having problems with the killing thing, but since Islam does not seem to care why should I.

    highpockets (4718b6)

  31. If I knew Gil’s address, I’d put on a respirator whenever I got within a mile of it.

    Both the Soviets and the Japanese had contempt for POWs in WWII. They demanded that their soldiers die instead of surrender (the Soviets executed any of their captured soldiers they recovered from the Germans), and their soldiers internalized it and extended that contempt for cowards to their prisoners. There is some Bushido nonsense, “The Way of the Warrior is death”, but 99% of the Japanese did not belong to the samurai class and knew it, and the samurai (bushi) had gone The Way of The Dodo since 1868 anyway.

    nk (dbc370)

  32. How foolish it was to hold out hope that Judge Reggie Walton would pursue justice in the IRS’s criminal behavior in dealing with Tea Party groups…

    http://www.politico.com/story/2014/10/irs-tea-party-legal-victory-112145.html

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  33. @27 MD

    That a lawyer wrote about how Christianity makes sense of the world for him is not so impressive. Surely you could find muslim laywers who would write the same sorts of books about Islam.

    Heres a book that we could mail to you:
    The Moral Landscape

    Gil (febf10)

  34. Gil – go insult a Muslim (insult their prophet, if yer feelin’ yer oats) on the street and see what that gets you. Come back and tell us how long it took the emergency personnel to extract your head from your digestive tract.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  35. MD, I have to confess that I fall short in the humility department. If I could learn to be humble, I would be perfect.

    nk (dbc370)

  36. @felipe 28

    Pearls before swine, doc.

    Is that directed at me? I thought you were supposed to be ready to defend your faith. What a poor display

    @Colonel 34
    I do not dispute that your irrational set of beliefs is more benign than Islam. But that says absolutely nothing about their validity.

    Gil (febf10)

  37. This little Gil maricon has got to be one of those sado-masochist leather boys. He comes around to provoke abuse and take abuse, and for no other reason. Ignore the puto.

    nk (dbc370)

  38. Staying with felipe’s tack, makes no sense to wrestle with pigs, you both get dirty and the pig likes it.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  39. Sure thing everyone, put a post out there and discuss how you don’t understand the draw to Islam, how your Religion is so much better – all the while not realizing you are in the same myopia as they are – but for the accident of birth location. Your discussion is so very intellectual and thoughtful as long as nobody has an outside point of view. Congradulations. Welcome to groupthink.

    Gil (febf10)

  40. Gil once again proves he is as much of a religious scholar as President Obama.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  41. @Daley 30

    Gil once again proves he is as much of a religious scholar as President Obama.

    Please correct me. Lets discuss.

    Gil (febf10)

  42. The schlep presumes to be worth the waste of time… time that one can never recoup. Keep your beliefs, Sparky, you’re welcomed to them.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  43. Daley walks down the street and sees a sign on a shop window that says

    “pig wrestling: free admission”.

    Does he go in? Tune in for the conclusion of this cliffhanger!

    felipe (40f0f0)

  44. The colonel falls of the wagon. Oh the humanity.

    felipe (40f0f0)

  45. “off” dammit! Can I say that on TV?

    felipe (40f0f0)

  46. Gil–I think many of us fully understand that by accident of birth or luck or serendipity or whatever one wants to call it, we are who we are, and that we were each born where, and into the families that we were. Many, if not most of us adopted at least to some degree the religion, social customs, and political leanings of our families. Most of us know enough not to behead people, or kidnap schoolgirls, or blow up buses, or fly full airplanes of passengers into occupied business structures. Now. What is your point?

    elissa (dec38f)

  47. well Walton was a party to the Libby witchhunt, so I had no expectations,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  48. JVW #9 – ” it’s easier for Muslims to suggest to black prisoners that Islam is a part of their natural heritage and that Christianity is a legacy of the slave trade and imperialist missionaries.”

    Ironically, for African-Americans, Islam *is* an enormous part of their heritage, just not their natural heritage … Arab (Muslim) slave-traders bought or captured Africans and brought them to the coast as a commodity and then sold them … a trade that has been going on for a millennium or more … Europeans bought some of this commodity and took it to their respective colonies – where Christians successfully led the fight to outlaw slavery … Farrakhan’s Nation of Islam is especially ironic …

    I believe that Muslim countries are the only countries on this planet currently where slavery is still legal …

    Alastor (e7cb73)

  49. @elissa 46

    Gil–I think many of us fully understand that by accident of birth or luck or serendipity or whatever one wants to call it, we are who we are, and that we were each born where, and into the families that we were. Many, if not most of us adopted at least to some degree the religion, social customs, and political leanings of our families. Most of us know enough not to behead people, or kidnap schoolgirls, or blow up buses, or fly full airplanes of passengers into occupied business structures. Now. What is your point?

    Hi elissa. My point is that although Christian religious beliefs do not currently inspire beheadings or suicide bombings, it does not make them true. This is one group of people pointing to another group claiming to have the superior irrational belief. It makes no sense.

    Heres a question. If accident of birth is the primary reason a belief is held, do you think that is a reliable method to use in seeking truth?

    Gil (febf10)

  50. I believe that Muslim countries are the only countries on this planet currently where slavery is still legal …

    Yes how totally backward and sad that is. Hey you know what, I just got a great idea. Lets go ahead and base a belief structure on a book that has a framework of support for slavery. Oh wait, thats been done already?

    Gil (febf10)

  51. Since I helped get us into the squabble that got our attention off of what I wanted to point out, here is where I mentioned Skeel’s book:
    MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/23/2014 @ 4:55 pm

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  52. @nk 51
    Thats a good one :)

    Gil (febf10)

  53. he does seem to take Surah 5;33, literally,

    http://counterjihadreport.com/tag/zale-thompson/

    narciso (ee1f88)

  54. isn’t this suppose to be music thursday where are the musics

    happyfeet (1a6576)

  55. Just for you, happyfeet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU

    nk (dbc370)

  56. “My point is that although Christian religious beliefs do not currently inspire beheadings or suicide bombings, it does not make them true.”

    Gil – Define true.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  57. Check out the actors in the video.

    nk (dbc370)

  58. Thank u Mr nk

    on the road it just been me and Mr. Aldean’s new one

    boy is gonna win him some awards I think

    once I make Kansas I’m a get me the new FGL

    I hate traveling with turtles

    but that’s just for us to know

    happyfeet (e4bb01)

  59. Do you want to take a chance on streaming WXRT Chicago? http://streema.com/radios/WXRT

    nk (dbc370)

  60. It’s playing “Life During Wartime” right now.

    nk (dbc370)

  61. Talking Heads.

    nk (dbc370)

  62. @Daily 57

    Gil – Define true.

    What comports to reality is true.

    Gil (febf10)

  63. Therefore, Gil is untrue.

    JD (f90455)

  64. I guess I really am an old guy.

    This has been going on forever. Look up Children of God or Jonestown or the Unification Church and Scientology. Young people, as well as others, are drawn to groups that provide hope, comfort, friendship and understanding. You can throw into the mix any other religion, political party, fraternity or sorority, the Toastmasters, Klingon speakers, Fan-fic writers, anti-vaxers, the armed forces, furries or my favorite, the Ag80 Fan Club.

    People want to belong despite Glenn Beck’s horrible song.

    Why wouldn’t young people be drawn to a decisive, strong movement that promises clear rules about right and wrong, family values and a certain afterlife.

    Sure, they cut off heads, but by Allah, they are serious about it.

    Christianity gave up serious a long time ago.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  65. 41. … Please correct me. Lets discuss.

    Gil (febf10) — 10/23/2014 @ 5:46 pm

    What’s the point? Like a case of Herpes you keep coming back.

    Steve57 (ed9502)

  66. “What’s the point? Like a case of Herpes you keep coming back.”

    Steve57 – Gil also doesn’t remember we’ve had the discussion before, which makes his attempts to cover the same ground here over and over and over and over and over so moronic.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  67. just as there is no there there, there is no Gil.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  68. One colonial stereotype that ought to be broken is the belief that only Western European nations were imperialistic. Perhaps they should study the Ottoman Empire or talk to some Balkans.

    Amphipolis (d3e04f)

  69. Amphipolis, that stereotype must not be broken.

    It would be most inconvenient, wouldn’t it, if say the sainted American Indians weren’t the original inhabitants of the Americas. But instead like the Europeans invaded the place. And unlike the Europeans completely wiped out the previous inhabitants.

    So of course if that were to have happened, the evidence would have to be destroyed.

    http://shaybo-therisingtide.blogspot.com/2014/08/the-kennewick-man-most-important-human.html

    Because it would be most inconvenient.

    Steve57 (ed9502)

  70. “It would be most inconvenient, wouldn’t it, if say the sainted American Indians weren’t the original inhabitants of the Americas.”

    Steve57 – I thought it was the Transformers? Aren’t they also the reason we went to the Moon?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  71. New religion detected: Gilslam.

    Central belief: There is no God, and Gil is his prophet.

    OmegaPaladin (a0e77e)

  72. Steve57 (ed9502) — 10/24/2014 @ 1:00 pm
    Fascinating. Both the archeology. etc., and the incredible resistance by the Corps of engineers.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/23/2014 @ 9:40 pm
    “Christendom” as a whole certainly has stopped being serious. But that has happened before with periods of awakening. And there have always been some that have been serious, sometimes one has to look a little harder to find them.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  73. Do not assume that a Muslim woman wearing Niqab is from some distant country. In fact there are many White native European women who choose Islam and then choose to wear Niqab or hijab. This is their choice and should be their right. I don’t understand why women see those who use burka’s as a sign of oppression when I’m sure women who use burka’s see women who are in bikini’s showing their whole body to all is a sign of oppression. It’s all about perspective. As a Muslim woman I do not prefer to be on display in front of a large group of men. It is for our privacy and comfort that we are behind them. I believe Facial Coverings are of no harm in nature, in turn, they can prevent some airborne illness, as well as prevent germs from circulating due to coughing. There is absolutely nothing wrong with covering your face, If she made if beyond security checks to get into the facility, than she obviously is of no harm. This is stigma, and they are enforcing law due to a religious practice, although i would practice such behaviours as sanitary and self-privacy. both of which anyone is entitled to uphold how they see fit.

    Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. In a few decades Islam will be the dominant religion in Europe and it will be because Europeans are choosing Islam. It will not be by force and it will not be through violence.

    Although Islam has unconfined Women and has given them the human right to reach for the sky without becoming ruler. But because of the misconception there have been Muslim Women Presidents through out the centuries, but to this date, the oppressive mentality of the men in the Western U.S.A. has stopped any Women from becoming Presidents in predominately Christian countries, while the Muslim countries have voted for and elected Female Presidents. How ever Quran clearly says that Men are protector and maintainer of women, which also leads us that only men can be ruler of a country (Al_Quran_004:034). Also, it was narrated that Abu Bakrah said: When the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) heard that the people of Persia had appointed the daughter of Chosroes as their queen, he said, “No people will ever prosper who appoint a woman in charge of them.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4163.

    I find Islam to be liberating not oppressive: women are partners.

    Islam is the first religion which systematically empowered women when women were considered as totally subservient to man. There was no concept of her being an independent entity and enjoying equal right with dignity. We live in a country where women are over-sexualised and sold as ‘products’ for capitalist gains. A woman’s beauty is splashed around everywhere, and she is only judged by that. Islam tells a woman to cover up so that she is not abused as Western women are. Islam provides the security and respect to women community than other religions. The western countries are using the women as an entertainment channels. All the women in the world should think about themselves then decide what is right and what is wrong for them in other religions (than Islam)

    Qur’an does lay down certain strict norms for sexual behaviour. Both man woman have right to sexual gratification (a woman has as much right to sexual gratification as man) but within marital frame-work. There is no concept of freedom for extramarital sex in any form. Sex is permissible only with marital framework. Sex, as far as Islam is concerned, is not mere enjoyment but an act for procreation and hence has sanctity.
    IA
    http://www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

    Iftikhar Ahmad (1ac368)

  74. Please tell us more about “liberating” women. Islam as practiced in Turkey and the Balkans may be as you claim. Islam as practiced in Pakistan, and in most African and Asian countries is not.

    nk (dbc370)

  75. Islime offers the peace & freedom of the grave, and nothing more.

    it is a “religion” of violence & death, and is thus incompatible with human dignity and mankind’s inherent free will and the accompanying freedom of choice that comes with it.

    redc1c4 (34e91b)

  76. As a Muslim woman I do not prefer to be on display in front of a large group of men.

    Iftikhar is a man’s name, Iftikhar. You will tell any lie, won’t you? Your “god” counsels you to lie to unbelievers, doesn’t he?* In our religion we call the one who counsels to lie Satan.

    *Although, it’s been my experience that all you “Worthy Oriental Gentlemen”s lie, irrespective of religion.

    nk (dbc370)

  77. I have a lot of respect for the idea that a woman covering herself in modesty is to be preferred over a woman being immodest and sexualized in public.
    That said, my understanding is that in some circles of Islam it is not so much a protection of the woman’s dignity that she wears clothing to keep her covered, but that woman is a temptress and men need to be protected from her.

    I think there is quite a bit in the New Testament that makes quite clear and obvious the equal dignity of men and women and that while there may be different roles in a marriage, there is no difference in honor or worth.
    That you think Islam is the first religion that did not make women subservient to men I imagine is because of an unfamiliarity with the New Testament teaching combined with what you have and have not observed in the “Christian” West. Many of the foundational principles of Western Culture may be from a Judeo-Christian perspective, but much of current Western Culture certainly is not. The current licentiousness in dress and public behavior in the West has nothing to do with Christianity, but derives from a widespread rejection of Christian principles, accelerated since the 1960’s, if not earlier.

    But if you want to make a defense of Islam, can you condemn the actions of such people who attack and kill claiming to do so in the name of Islam?

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  78. Burqas rock. You betcha.

    elissa (dc9413)

  79. MD, when I was growing up in Greece all married women, and all girls of marriageable age, wore the mantilla in public. Yes, we call it that too, narciso and felipe. And there were conventions as to its colors — for example, the color of mourning was black for older women but unadorned white for younger women. In the Old Calendar (read super-strict) Greek Orthodox churches, women must have their heads covered in church. And besides Greece and Spain, it’s also the custom among Ashkenazi Jews, I understand.

    But Iftikhar is not to be taken seriously.

    nk (dbc370)

  80. “Burqas rock. You betcha.”

    elissa – I enjoy the “Wet Burqa” contests many bars sponsor these days. A gauzy water-drenched burqa clinging to a great body is HAWT! The only problem is dudes sneaking into them.

    Back in the day we mostly only had wet T-shirt and banana eating contests.

    I’ll be in my bunk.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  81. Lay your hijab on my pillow
    Hold your hot and itchy burka next to mine
    Hear the camels urinate outside our window
    And tell me about your tahara one more time.

    nk (dbc370)

  82. Yes, daley, it’s an increasing problem in some locales. When they’re dressed in this get-up it’s hard to distinguish a suicide bomb terrorist from a happy housewife.

    http://www.latimes.com/la-010802women11_gp0lv3ke-photo.html

    elissa (dc9413)

  83. Iftikhar Ahmad (1ac368) — 10/25/2014 @ 11:11 am

    I find Islam to be liberating not oppressive: women are partners.

    Islam is the first religion which systematically empowered women when women were considered as totally subservient to man.

    This is amusing. Muhammad’s first wife was Khadija. He married her while both were still pagans. She was extremely wealthy and essentially Muhammad’s boss. So he had no other wives while she lived.

    It was only after she died and he became Muslim that Muhammad had multiple wives.

    It is ahistorical BS that Islam represented a step up for women.

    There is no concept of freedom for extramarital sex in any form. Sex is permissible only with marital framework. Sex, as far as Islam is concerned, is not mere enjoyment but an act for procreation and hence has sanctity.

    Again, a real knee slapper. Not only is extramarital sex for pleasure lawful, so is adultery. Except it’s not adultery when Muslims do it.

    http://quran.com/4/24

    4:24 Surat An-Nisā’ (The Women)

    And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.

    According to the hadiths Christians and Jews will get into paradise. Yes, Christians and Jews!

    Just the women, though, For the sexual pleasure of Muslim men. Which is the same reason they exist on Earth.

    Another epic taqqiyah fail.

    Steve57 (e92787)

  84. Has VOX just come out with a new ‘splain on the role of women in the Islamic State or something? Iftikhar Ahmad Matty, is that you?

    elissa (dc9413)

  85. http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/77

    The “Mother of the Faithful” on the liberating treatment of women in Islam.

    Narrated `Ikrima:

    Rifa`a divorced his wife whereupon `AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. `Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) came, `Aisha said, “I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!” When `AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, “By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this,” holding and showing the fringe of her garment, `Abdur-Rahman said, “By Allah, O Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ)! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa`a.” Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) said, to her, “If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa`a unless `Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you.” Then the Prophet (ﷺ) saw two boys with `Abdur- Rahman and asked (him), “Are these your sons?” On that `AbdurRahman said, “Yes.” The Prophet (ﷺ) said, “You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow,”

    Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 5825
    In-book reference : Book 77, Hadith 42
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 7, Book 72, Hadith 715
    (deprecated numbering scheme)

    After having seen how pagans, Christians, and Jews treated their wives, Aisha declares that Muslim women are treated worse.

    Steve57 (e92787)

  86. as found on teh Intarwebz back in 2009…

    Women Go ‘Round in Burkhas
    –Billy al-Preston
    I wear a thong, but I’ve got modesty
    ‘Cause over it I wear a tent
    I wear a thong, but I’ve got modesty
    ‘Cause over it I wear a tent

    Women go ’round in burkhas
    Women go by covered up up to the eyes
    Women go ’round in burkhas
    Women go by covered up up to the eyes

    Don’t walk outside without permission
    Everywhere I go I’m chaperoned
    Don’t walk outside without permission
    Everywhere I go I’m chaperoned

    Women go ’round in burkhas
    Women go by covered up up to the eyes
    Women go ’round in burkhas
    Women go by covered up up to the eyes

    I live in the West, but I haven’t seen it
    Might as well be in the Middle East
    I live in the West, but I haven’t seen it
    Might as well be in the Middle East

    Women go ’round in burkhas
    Women go by covered up up to the eyes
    Women go ’round in burkhas
    Women go by covered up up to the eyes

    I wear a thong, but I’ve got modesty
    ‘Cause over it I wear a tent
    I wear a thong, but I’ve got modesty
    ‘Cause over it I wear a tent

    Women go ’round in burkhas
    Women go by covered up up to the eyes
    Women go ’round in burkhas
    Women go by covered up up to the eyes

    sorry for the weird formatting… apparently stray ‘s cause that.

    redc1c4 (34e91b)

  87. True story. One hot Chicago day, I’m driving to work and I stop to let a dark person in a black burka cross the street. Draped from head to toe with only a slit for the eyes. She/he takes a step out in the street and I see a bare leg, through a slit in the burka, all the way up to the top of the thigh, and (I’m not positive) high-heeled shoes. Protective coloration? How Muslim ladies and ladyboys of negotiable affection dress?

    nk (dbc370)

  88. elissa – You can’t boogie down in a wet burqa contest if the Taliban don’t allow no music. In the West, where we objectify the wimmins, we have no such problems.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  89. #s 83 and 88… suhweet!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  90. [Boy:]
    I remember every little thing
    As if it happened only yesterday
    Parking by the Mosque
    And there was not another camel in sight
    And I never had a girl
    Looking any better than you did
    And all the kids at the madrassa
    They were wishing they were me that night

    And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
    It never felt so good, it never felt so right
    And we’re glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
    Glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
    C’mon, hold on tight
    C’mon, hold on tight

    Though it’s cold and lonely in the deep dark night
    I can see paradise by the Prophet’s light(PBUH)

    [Girl:]
    Ain’t no doubt about it we were doubly blessed
    ‘Cause we were barely seventeen
    And we were modestly dressed

    [Both:]
    Ain’t no doubt about it
    Baby got to go out and shout it
    Ain’t no doubt about it
    We were doubly blessed

    [Boy:]
    ‘Cause we were barely seventeen
    And we were modestly dressed

    Baby don’cha hear my heart
    You got it drowning out the muezzin
    I’ve been waiting so long
    For you to come along and have some fun
    And I gotta let you know
    No you’re never gonna regret it
    So open up your eyes, I got a big surprise
    It’ll feel all right
    Well I wanna make you bleat like a virgin goat

    And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
    It never felt so good, it never felt so right
    And we’re glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
    Glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
    C’mon, Hold on tight
    C’mon, Hold on tight

    [Both:]
    Though it’s cold and lonely in the deep dark night
    I can see paradise by the Prophet’s light(PBUH)
    Paradise by the Prophet’s light(PBUH)

    You got to do what you can
    And let Allah do the rest
    Ain’t no doubt about it
    We were doubly blessed
    ‘Cause we were barely seventeen
    And we were modestly dressed

    We’re gonna go all the way tonight
    We’re gonna go all the way
    And tonight’s the night………..

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  91. “Praise Allah, I’m a Jihadi Boy” – al-Sheed Mapanz n’Denvur

    Well, life on the run is really a thrill
    ain’t much an old Jihadi boy like me won’t kill
    It’s early to rise, gotta quota to fill, praise Allah I’m a Jihadi boy.
    Well, a bloody kind of life never bothered me much,
    killing women and kids, rapin’ goats and such
    Lose a leg, I’ll Jihadi on with a crutch, praise Allah I’m a Jihadi boy.
    Well, I gotta sweet camel, and a fine leather saddle
    When the sun’s coming up, pita bread’s on the griddle.
    Any justice in life, they’ll find my carcass riddled…. praise Allah, I’m a Jihadi boy.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  92. you da Man, daley!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  93. In the Old Calendar (read super-strict) Greek Orthodox churches, women must have their heads covered in church. And besides Greece and Spain, it’s also the custom among Ashkenazi Jews, I understand.

    It was true in the old Roman Catholic Church too. To this day I still sometimes see little old ladies — mostly of Latin American heritage — wearing a mantilla at mass.

    JVW (60ca93)

  94. My Sharia. High quality video and audio. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tXrIGT4hMI NSIM (Not safe in Mecca)

    nk (dbc370)

  95. Thank you Colonel.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)


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