Patterico's Pontifications

10/2/2014

The Politics Of Ebola

Filed under: General — Dana @ 5:08 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Rush theorizes:

“Ebola, a killer virus is political,” Limbaugh said. “We’re in the process of having it politicized. The left politicizes everything. The Democrat Party politicizes everything – everything is politicized … you know? What does Ebola threaten right now? And don’t say ‘the American people and their health’ because that’s not how it’s being looked at. Ebola is threatening amnesty. Amnesty is desire number one politically by the Democrat Party – and hell, Republican Party, too for all we know.”

“Amnesty – the Washington establishment political class wants amnesty,” he continued. “That equals open borders. Ebola is a giant threat to that. So therefore Ebola has to be positioned as insignificant, much ado about nothing, nothing to see here, don’t worry about it, we’ve got it, it’s in control, it’s all in Africa, we’re dealing with it. Ebola threatens amnesty. It is political because it feeds into this insane fairness argument. Fairness trumps everything. Fairness and equality trumps everything.”

–Dana

95 Responses to “The Politics Of Ebola”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  2. the Ebola virus killed everyone who was infected back in the 70s, liquified their flesh and bones in a few days. It was airborne and it was – and still is – the worst illness mankind has ever encountered. Although the current virus/strain is related, it is no where near that bad. At least that’s what I’ve read and heard.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  3. I like Rush more for the info I get there that I don’t elsewhere, some of his conclusions, well, not always so much.
    I do agree that with Obama and the Dems in general, political positioning is always high on the agenda (“never let a crisis go to waste”).
    Now, if Bill Ayers was president I would not doubt that he would willing let an Ebola epidemic loose to cause chaos and the imposition of martial law, he’s quoted as saying 25 million will have to die in the revolution.
    I find it hard to believe that Obama would do the same.

    Being incompetent and letting an epidemic loose to kill people I think would be a political fiasco.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  4. Colonel, I don’t believe your sources are as good as you might think.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  5. Obama has quietly done away with the quarantine restrictions GWB had enacted. It seems as if any common sense protective shield, law or strategy is a roadblock to what TFG wants to do in and to America. Why, one would almost think he’s totally committed to weakening, neutering and fundamentally mutating the United States of America.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  6. set the record straight, MD.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  7. Ebola Democrats want to destroy America with the bacteria call “fairness.”

    Perfectsense (18605b)

  8. And Colonel Haiku, he granted an additional two years of amnesty to illegal aliens from Libera as of 9/26. It’s moves like that, and the highminded scolding of the CDC, that represent the extent of their preparation. They can’t even find a crew to clean out Duncan’s apartment so the family is stuck in a hot zone indefinitely. They have no safe quarantine area. The family will die too.

    This is just conjecture, but when Obama start talking proudly about American as being the indispensable nation the other night, I thought it was so out of character. He was excited and proud of his country! Now I think, he was anticipating his heroic role in routing an Ebola pandemic.

    But he forgot to find a crew to clean up the infected sheets.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  9. i’d read, MD, that the only thing that stopped the transmission of ebola in Africa in 1976 was that it killed all infected patients and medical personnel treating them in the isolated areas where it had appeared. Not true?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  10. Ebola is a horrifying disease, but the Black Death killed 75-100 million people in an era when the world population had yet to reach 500 million–and with horrifying symptoms of its own. The Spanish flu epidemic of 1918 killed up to 100 million people at a time that is still (barely) within living memory, and in both cases we had far, far less effective resources for dealing with the problem (though by the same token we had less things to worry about as far as potential vectors for spreading the epidemic). The situation and the threat is bad enough without overstating the problem.

    M. Scott Eiland (15aac4)

  11. Eh, the connection between the two is a stretch.

    JWB (c1c08f)

  12. well it is a stretch, but it’s in the nature of their mindset, recall when this epidemic really manifested itself three months ago, it was basically crickets on the WH side, because it conflicted with the grand facade of the african summit

    narciso (ee1f88)

  13. From my general fund of knowledge,
    (which includes direct email correspondence with a missionary doc in the middle of an outbreak in Uganda several years ago)
    not looking anything up,
    There have been multiple outbreaks over the years, the death rates in each outbreak has varied between ~40% to ~90%. the death rate has varied because of different strains of virus and the level of medical care available. All previous outbreaks have been contained not by everyone dying, but indeed by being in isolated areas where all contacts were able to be monitored and quarantined as necessary. It has been typical that health care workers are among the deaths early on, usually after being exposed to an initial patient or two before the disease was identified.
    The moment it was clear that this outbreak involved a heavily populated area there should have been a fear for the worst case scenario, especially in an area with few resources.

    If you have specific questions or disagreements, list them and I will try to address them, but maybe not until the am.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  14. MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/2/2014 @ 5:40 pm

    Yeah, Rush can make a one-hour segment about a hangnail and the lefty, tree-hugging enviro-wackos in conspiracy with the EPA, the TSA, and the tort lawyers, that prevent the manufacture of a decent nail clipper.

    nk (dbc370)

  15. Yes, it is true that all of Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea could die of Ebola and it wouldn’t approach the past epidemics.
    But perhaps the world psyche would be worse off, because we’ve come to expect medical science to not permit such things,
    and, back in those days I think there was more local and self reliance for food, etc.
    From what I have read, Liberia is approaching anarchy not so much because of the number with Ebola, but because business and commerce has been so depressed, that many don’t have enough money to buy food, if they can find it.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  16. This seems to be as good a summary as I can find… much less alarming than other stuff I’d read.
    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/

    Colonel Haiku (ed365f)

  17. Perhaps Rush is a little harsh in his interpretation of the Ebola problem. However, just yesterday , yesterday, I was at the Club and a (very liberal) member barked out that “you guys (meaning the conservatives at the bar) must love this Ebola crap cause then you have a real reason to hate immigrants”. So maybe Rush is off, but he ain’t off by that much. To Harry (the leftist) everything really is political. BTW, he actually started to blame Bush. See, if Bush had put more money in the CDC and in curing disease in Africa this wouldn’t have happened. Bush was more interested in giving money to Big Oil and didn’t care about African blacks. And the beat goes on.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  18. 15.Yes, it is true that all of Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea could die of Ebola and it wouldn’t approach the past epidemics.

    It amuses me that all these die-hard leftists who don’t believe in God but do believe in Gaia, evolution and natural selection fail to understand this is how natural selection sometimes works.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  19. it’s more macro-political I think than of immediate concern to paltry failmerican domestic policies – though you people for sure need to get a handle on your border lickety-split quick like a bunny

    for now there’s a couple big things happening and a million little ones it seems to me

    the second most important is we’re seeing that ebola’s got the potential to detrimentally impact the development path of africa for a generation – africa and beyond

    cause what’s new is the virus is in west africa and this means it could jump hither and yither to similar environments where it could similarly thrive

    and yes mexico city is for sure one of them

    but so is mecca

    and so is mumbai

    and so is detroit

    and so is shanghai

    uncontrolled ebola threatens to create a durable, real divide between developing and developed countries everywhere

    and so far uncontrolled is the exact right word

    the mostest important thing though is our terrorist friends are getting a very very vivid demonstration of how inept incompetent and unprepared America is when faced with something like this

    Which means the age of bio-terrorism is begun.

    And that sucks.

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  20. No other President paid more attention, and money, in combating disease in Africa than the Shrub. None. But if Obamites were in touch with reality, Bam-Bam would not be President.

    nk (dbc370)

  21. nk (dbc370) — 10/2/2014 @ 6:47 pm
    Even Bono said so.

    I have this data about the original outbreak:
    318 cases and 280 deaths (a 88% fatality rate) occurred in the DRC.[

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  22. Colonel Haiku (ed365f) — 10/2/2014 @ 6:38 pm

    The main reality to consider is that every previous outbreak was in a relatively isolated area and it was possible to identify and monitor everyone exposed and allow the outbreak to be contained. As I said before, the moment it hit more populated areas in West Africa it should have been recognized that a major crisis was looming.
    If handled correctly, even an incident in a heavily populated area can be contained if steps are taken immediately as was seen in Lagos (unless there are some unidentified cases now lurking). no panic necessary, but “don’t do stupid stuff”, like let an unknown number of infected people into the US to be sprinkled about here and there.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  23. they are playing this with the nonchalance of the idiot mayor, Lastman, (sic) of Toronto, during the SARS epidemic, and you can’t do this with Ebola

    narciso (ee1f88)

  24. I talked once with a nurse in Toronto during SARS, the medical community sure wasn’t being nonchalant.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  25. Piers Morgan slams Obama for ‘shameless, reprehensible display of buck-passing’

    A more shameless, reprehensible display of buck-passing it would be hard to find from a sitting president.

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  26. To give real weight to his apparent belief that “there’s no problem with allowing flights from West African nations into the USA”, I’d like to see Dear Leader step right on up and SHOW his leadership and commitment.

    Let’s arrange to have him welcome a few planeloads originating from Lagos or Monrovia.

    Visualize: The newcomers come off the plane, down the jetway, and there, RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF THEM, is Barack Hussein Obama — Wow!! These lucky travelers are being greeted by the President of the United States of America !!!! Mr. Obama demonstrates his ABSOLUTE FAITH in American infectious-disease protocols, and additionally his absolute commitment to Open Borders, by shaking the hand of and giving a BIG WELCOMING EMBRACE to each and every arriving traveler!

    !!!!!! PROPAGANDA COUP !!!!!!

    !!!!!! THINK OF THE PHOTO OP !!!!!!

    Dear Leader would be on the front page of every newspaper IN THE WHOLE FREAKIN’ WORLD !!

    A picture worth TEN thousand words!

    I would pay money to see this.

    A_Nonny_Mouse (aa0aaf)

  27. I listened to Rush’s show in the car and found it a reasonable theory.

    I think the West is proving once again to care not at all about Africa.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  28. Well, it was our ancestral homeland once, but every time we try to exercise our universal human right of return and resettlement they call us colonialists and imperialists and it gets kind of discouraging you know.

    nk (dbc370)

  29. 2. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/2/2014 @ 5:38 pm

    the Ebola virus killed everyone who was infected back in the 70s, liquified their flesh and bones in a few days. It was airborne

    That’s not the story here.

    http://history1900s.about.com/od/1970s/qt/Ebola-Outbreaks.htm

    It says the very first (known) case was on July 27, 1976 in the Sudan. It took the person 10 days to die from when he first began to show symptoms.

    and it was – and still is – the worst illness mankind has ever encountered.

    There were 284 diagnosed, and 151 died for a ratio of 53% This is probably not the worst, but high among them. Diseases are more deadly when they are new, because no one or few people produce te right antbodies right away. Smallpox was probably more deadly, especially to the Indians.

    But in the Twentieth Centiry we didn’t have anything like this.

    THere was an epidemic in what was then called Zaire starting September 1, 1976. t was spread in part because the hospital re-used needles. The epidemic ended when the hospital was closed (after 11 of its staff of 17 died) and the ebola patients were isolated. 280 out of 318 people diagnosed died, giving it a death rate of 88%.

    If the Reston strain has a 0% death rate could it maybe be used as a vaccine? Or are these death rates misleading, and depend on when it gets diagnosed and what kind of treatment the patients get?

    Although the current virus/strain is related, it is no where near that bad. At least that’s what I’ve read and heard.

    It’s different, which means that the vaccine being researched might not work too well, and the ebola test also.

    But this is killing more people, nort less. This is because too many people have it, and they can’t do the kind of isolation and identification of all cases as they can when it is only a dozen or so.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2ea77)

  30. The left politicizes everything.

    Another illustration of that — and one that also involves a dangerous disease — pertains to AIDS and the GLBT community. Or where in order to not damage the tender psyche of gay men in particular, a ban on such people donating blood has been characterized as unkind and rude. And the idea of having much or any information on such people’s sexual history and partners triggering a warning alert has been deemed equally unkind and rude.

    The insanity of compassion for compassion’s sake — of tears for the sake of tears — runs rampant in 21st century America.

    Mark (c160ec)

  31. And I thought concern about it is racist. But then again I am old school.

    AZ Bob (34bb80)

  32. 30. The real insanity with AIDS was no contact tracing.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2ea77)

  33. The only politics involved with ebola is on the right, where you have people wanting to use it to prove the necessity for border control (which you cannot get by keeping so much illegal)

    It causes them to exaggerate the dangers of contagion.

    If ebola was as contagious (and dangerous) as some people want it to be, or claim, it would have spread far more than it has in Africa. Some people may think this has spread fast. It hasn’t been very fast. It takes extended exposure, or a freak incident or something (sharing a
    toothbrush, a bar of soap, a razor, a towel, a washcloth, a drinking glass?) to transmit it. One of the bad things here is that nobody’s investigated or figured out exactly what transmits it. Touching somebody’s sweat, especially when they haven’t yet bled or vomited, probably doesn’t do it.

    This is a slowly growing epidemic. It is taking days, weeks and months to spread. Case by case.

    Obama would be perfectly safe in greeting and even shaking the hands of everyone who arrived
    on a plane from Liberia, but the Secret Service probably wouldn’t let him do it.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2ea77)

  34. Who knew that the October Surprise was going to be an own goal.

    Kevin M (b357ee)

  35. The only politics involved with ebola is on the right,

    Yea, Sammy, and Obama isn’t intrinsically a leftist and Pat Buchanan loves blood and violence.

    Mark (c160ec)

  36. It’s the right which comes up with these ideas of quarantine, and soldiers being sent to Liberia being in danger, and connects it to immigration enforcement. I think the motivating
    factor is cruelty and heartlessness.

    And they have to make ebola out to be more contagious than it is to justify these
    pretensions. Again, if it was that contagious, there would be afar bigger epidemic.

    The big problem:

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/aug/28/ebola-virus-breakthrough-niemann-pick

    There have been at least two dozen Ebola outbreaks in Africa though doctors still do not know exactly how the virus is spread. They don’t know how it is spread. It is not easy, but it happens somehow sporadically. What are the people who get it doing that the people whodon’t get it are not doing? Well, actually maybe in large part they are doing the same thing, except taht some people beat it back before it causes severe dysfunction of the endothelial cells that line blood vessels.

    But there may be some things, or types of things, you have to do. Did some ejecta get into the food they ate? did they put their finger in their mouth? Did they swallow some bath water? Incompletely wash dishes or pots? Taste food and leave some residue? Did they use a napkin or piece of cloth that someone else used and suck on it? Spill water or drinks from one glass into another, or pour it back into a container? Probably it’s a hundred things people don’t notice or realize or remember, and yet it is not just passing somebody in the hallway or the street.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2ea77)

  37. The quote from the article in 36 is just one sentence:

    There have been at least two dozen Ebola outbreaks in Africa though doctors still do not know exactly how the virus is spread.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2ea77)

  38. What that means, actually, is that it is NOT that easy – then they would know. Something special has to happen.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2ea77)

  39. But it is not as hard to transmit as HIV.

    Sammy Finkelman (c2ea77)

  40. Ironic; the quotation seems to be an attempt to politicize ebola.

    aphrael (af3e66)

  41. This is all part of obama’s plan to spread the fairness around. It would only be fair if Americans were exposed to ebola too. That was the reason for sending 3000 troops to Africa. Get them exposed ship them off to other units on their return. Share ebola with the military. Don’t quarantine flights from Africa. Let people come over here and expose Americans. So, if Americans get ebola and die, it is only fair. But, it could decimate the military too. A double win for the America hating obama.

    Jim (145e10)

  42. As Brad Thor points out, in a tweet to Nancy Snyderman,, ‘if it’s not airborne, how did your cameraman get it’

    narciso (ee1f88)

  43. It’s not so much that Obama *wants* to cause an Ebola outbreak in America. It’s that he doesn’t care. The only things he really cares about are political. Power, cronyism, and his “fundamental transformation of America”.

    pst314 (ae6bd1)

  44. narciso (ee1f88) — 10/3/2014 @ 5:37 am

    Here ya go, the cameraman’s name is Ashoka Mukpo, and according to a CNN report “he had been in Liberia working on various projects for about 3 years”.

    The cameraman wasn’t an American who went there to film and kept to himself in some nice hotel with the NBC crew, he was essentially living the life of a Liberian national.

    Which gives credence to my massive “shelter in place” plan if people are serious about getting this under control before the Liberian society, at least in and around Monrovia, collapses.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  45. I just read at HotAir that 51% of demoncrats believe people should be prosecuted for “hate speech”. I’m not even comfortable with the idea of “hate crimes” let alone speech which is a Constitutional right.

    Sometimes I think that Orwell didn’t mean 1984 to be a fictional novel but rather a Handbook for Leftists. At least it appears that’s what it’s become.

    Now Ebola-Barry seems intent on keeping our borders open regardless the peril to American citizens as long as it fulfills the long them goal of replenishing the demoncrat voters decimated by abortion.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  46. Thanks, MD, i recall the SARs incident, in part through the comments, Steyn did at the time, I think he blamed the PM, more than the mayor,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  47. 33. 36. etc, etc. Sammy, perhaps you should take a side gig as a limo/cab driver with the specialty of picking up arriving passengers at Kennedy right off flights from Liberia? Or standing as a greeter with handshakes and hugs. That’d be proving a point. That’d be putting your beliefs and theories into practice. Perhaps you could go to Texas and volunteer to clean up the Duncan family’s apartment. (See Patricia@8)

    You frequently opine here on subjects outside your area of expertise. Hell, we all do. But from the safety of your apartment and your computer, when you make the claims that you are, and (apparently based mostly on google and your inner voices) when you pretend you have special insight or knowledge concerning contagion with respect to a known -to- be- deadly international ebola viral threat, it is truly the height of arrogance. I’ll be reading Dr. Mike K.’s posts and links on this subject, not yours.

    elissa (e6ce79)

  48. And yours, MD in Philly/, thanks.

    elissa (e6ce79)

  49. he was essentially living the life of a Liberian national.

    I don’t understand that, MD in Philly. Because of the Ebola thing I’ve recently been reading about and seeing photos of Liberia and other West African nations. Why would anyone deliberately live like that? Between AIDS, malaria and Ebola that area of the world is a pit of disease. Which begs the question: with our open border and non-quarantine policy wouldn’t it behoove anyone with the slightest ability with Ebola to flee to the U.S. for treatment? What’s to stop them?

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  50. Hoagie (4dfb34) — 10/3/2014 @ 6:22 am

    I think it may have been a piece by Mark Steyn I was reading, where he made some allusion to 1984 in the presence of a group that contained some younger liberals. Not only did they not see Mark’s point, they had no idea what he was talking about and knew nothing about 1984, let alone having read it.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  51. Well, prior to Ebola, Liberia was trying to rebuild after their years of civil war had ended. His name doesn’t sound like he’s of Scottish descent like Alastor, so he may have gone “back home” now that the civil war was over, perhaps to help rebuild with his family still there.
    I’m sure that many with the means have left, especially if they were able to leave with their nuclear family. That has been part of the medical problem, so many of the professionals there had been expatriates trying to help rebuild Liberia, and they did leave once the Ebola outbreak reached beyond the meager facilities that the government was running with Samaritan’s Purse.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  52. they had no idea what he was talking about and knew nothing about 1984,

    Now that, my dear doctor, is scary as hell!

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  53. 51. Back home from Accra. American surnames are very common in Liberia where slaves were repatriated back in herstory.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  54. That’s our educational system at work. The minions and foot soldiers don’t realize how they’ve been indoctrinated.

    And it keeps happening. I read that when “The Hunger Games” movie was being made, Donald Southerland, one of the stars and a great lefty, said it was important “in the era of Bush” for young people to be exposed to such dystopian possibilities.

    From my perspective, Alinsky giving a hat-tip to Lucifer, the father of lies, was far more apropos that he would have ever thought. There is no other reason for such mass delusion against self-interest.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  55. 47. Elected by Acclaim!!! Do it Sammy! You’re our hero.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  56. Why would anyone deliberately live like that?

    It’s a libertarian paradise. No nanny-state government to oppress them with clean water, sewer systems, roads, hospitals, reliable food production, public schools, mandatory vaccination, or other such instruments of tyranny.

    nk (dbc370)

  57. gary gulrud (46ca75) — 10/3/2014 @ 7:03 am

    Thank you for the clarification, but it confirms my general point if not the detail of it, that the man was likely more a native of the area than an NBC staffer living in a nice secluded hotel, correct?

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  58. and blessed with equality, nk, the great liberal ideal
    equal opportunity to die in the street in squalor

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  59. Yes Sutherland goes back to Fonda, and the late Peter Boyle, big supporter of the Panthers, shockingly he doesn’t see how the Capitol, is very much today.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  60. We got the message
    We heard it on the airwaves
    The politicians
    Are now MDs
    The sickness was spreading
    Nation to nation
    Like an infection
    Across the human race
    Though you know you can’t stop it
    When they start to hork
    You’re gonna get out the way

    The politics of ebola
    The politics of ooh feeling bad
    The politics of puking aha
    Is this message’s understood?!?!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  61. Oh help dear doctor I’m damaged
    there’s blood where there once
    was just a hole
    I’m pukin’ I’m bleedin’
    can’tcha please tear it out?
    and preserve it right there in that jar

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  62. there was a woman in Texas
    didn’t feel jus’ right
    she had fever all day
    and bleeds at night
    well things got worse
    yes a serious bind
    in times like this
    it takes a doc of such stuff
    that you cannot often find

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  63. I have a young friend from Ghana who studies here. His father is a big-shot in Ghana. He believes someday he’ll be president. He says the Cote d’Ivoire, Togo and Burkina Faso , all of which border his tiny country, are 5hit holes. He says the best thing going there are Christian missionaries! They bring food, medicine, sanitation and all they ask is on Sunday sing: “Jesus Loves Me”. But I guess in the “modern world” these guys are bad and the moslems and Marxists are good, up is down, war is peace….Orwellian ain’t it? Maybe a few African hyphenated Americans should see these photos and count their lucky stars. Cause I know as an Irish hyphenated American it’s a nice place to visit but, like my ancestors, I have no desire to live there and it ain’t anywhere near the hell-hole that Africa is.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  64. > if people are serious about getting this under control before the Liberian society, at least in and around Monrovia, collapses.

    I strongly suspect it’s too late; the ship has sailed. :{

    aphrael (001863)

  65. Liberia was not a European colony. It was “founded” by freed American slaves who immediately enslaved the local population and set themselves up the way their masters in United States had. Then there was a series of bloody revolutions and counter-revolutions in the 1970s. Liberia may very well be what the Confederate States of America would have looked like had they succeeded in seceding. A 160 years of a slave-based economy, ruled by a relative handful of elites, culminating in bloody upheaval.

    nk (dbc370)

  66. My mother’s daughter was in Cameroon earlier this year. No religious purpose; strictly for volunteer medical purposes. There really is a 1%-99% divide. The 99% live truly miserable lives. There is no infrastructure. Everyone, “rich” or poor, is likely to come down with malaria. People with sickle cell, who are immune to it, are ostracized for it. Superstition and tribalism rule. She treated children with tenanus — tetanus! — because even though Gates Foundation funded NGOs provide free childhood immunization only 60% allow their children to be vaccinated.

    nk (dbc370)

  67. 66. Daughter’s mother?

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  68. We’re divorced but after almost three years I still can’t call her the compound word that starts with “e” and ends with “e” which is the usual term. And when I say “favorite wife” some people think I practice polygamy. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  69. As for the missionaries, talking to you Northern European denomination Christians may be leading me astray. Greek Orthodox do not proselytize. The Church frowns on it and it has been a jailable offense in Greece since at least my parents’ time. Even the Sunday service is supposed to be open to catechumens only for the first part, and closed for the Mystery of the Communion except to the baptized and confirmed, although in practice it’s just a proclamation in the ritual.

    nk (dbc370)

  70. > Everyone, “rich” or poor, is likely to come down with malaria

    A good friend of mine grew up in Kenya, as the child of US military stationed there.

    He had malaria while he was there.

    aphrael (001863)

  71. One of the local doctors my mother’s daughter was working with came in and said “I can’t stay; my whole family has malaria”. Mosquitoes are not food snobs. You know that’s how Alexander the Great died?

    nk (dbc370)

  72. You know that’s how Alexander the Great died?

    That’s not what I heard.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  73. Ok, Hoagie, I’ll bite. What did you hear?

    nk (dbc370)

  74. I apologize, nk. I was told syphilis. I was told wrong.

    From Wiki:
    Proposed causes of Alexander’s death included alcoholic liver disease and strychnine poisoning, but little data support either version.[15] According to the University of Maryland School of Medicine report of 1998, Alexander probably died of typhoid fever[16] (which, along with malaria, was common in ancient Babylon[17]). In the week before Alexander’s death, historical accounts mention chills, sweats, exhaustion and high fever, typical symptoms of infectious diseases, including typhoid fever.[16] According to David W. Oldach from the University of Maryland Medical Center, Alexander also had “severe abdominal pain, causing him to cry out in agony”.[16] The associated account, however, comes from the unreliable Alexander romance.

    Previous most popular theories hold that Alexander either died of malaria or was poisoned. Other retrodiagnoses include noninfectious diseases as well.[18] According to author Andrew Chugg, there is evidence Alexander died of malaria, having contracted it two weeks before his death while sailing in the marshes to inspect flood defences.[19] Chugg based his argument on Ephemerides by otherwise unknown Diodotus of Erythrae, although the authenticity of this source has been questioned.[19] It was also noted that the absence of the signature fever curve of Plasmodium falciparum (the expected parasite, given Alexander’s travel history) diminishes the possibility of malaria.[18] The malaria version was nonetheless supported by Paul Cartledge.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  75. Ah, well nk, as long as you were not once married to your mother’s daughter and she did not become your daughter’s mother then I guess I can deal with it. (That would be worse than polygamy.) Relationships in the 21st century have gotten a bit complex so one never really knows!

    elissa (a3eca3)

  76. From Breitbart:

    DALLAS, Texas — Over 3,500 passengers from Ebola affected nations have been allowed to enter the U.S. without any special screening since January 1, 2014, according to a leaked internal intelligence report from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Office of Intelligence and Liaison exclusively obtained by Breitbart Texas. In addition, the individuals entered into at least 18 heavily populated U.S. cities across the nation.

    The leaked report specifically reads, “According to CBP [Customs and Border Protection] data, since January 1, 2014 to June 30, 2014, a total of 3,566 passengers with a nexus to Guinea transited through or arrived at U.S. airports.” The term “nexus” refers to passengers who flew from the Ebola stricken nation to a second nation, and then from the second nation into the United States. Guinea is attributed as the nation of origin for the current Ebola outbreak.

    All is well. Everything is going according to plan.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  77. elissa, I was married to my mother’s daughter for nineteen years, eight months and nineteen days, and our daughter was born in the tenth year of our marriage. Let’s get that straight.

    nk (dbc370)

  78. Hoagie, alcoholism may have played a role. Malaria can cause liver failure, more likely in drunks.

    nk (dbc370)

  79. nk did you go back and read your posts? you keep calling your ex wife your mother’s daughter! Were you married to your sister for 19 years?

    elissa (a3eca3)

  80. Sigh. You’re right. DAUGHTER’S MOTHER! I’m blushing.

    nk (dbc370)

  81. Hoagie (4dfb34) — 10/3/2014 @ 8:50 am
    While there has been some risk for that length of time, I think the relative risk has skyrocketed in the last 2 months or so. They were still trying to contain it in pockets when Brantley got ill, it has only been since then that it appears that all from the Monrovia area are at risk.

    aphrael (001863) — 10/3/2014 @ 7:42 am
    I more or less agree, unless there are immediate extreme measures on the order of a massive “shelter at home” and a “Berlin air lift” of food and water distributed at local pick up points.

    Once upon a time some Protestants did not do evangelism, either. “If God wants to save the heathen, He will do it”. Then came the idea of “God using the means of sending people”. (Was it Wycliffe, maybe, that was a champion of this?) Of course, ever since Peter and Philip and Paul and early in the Book of Acts, it was the norm. Something about going into all the world.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  82. nk, I read right over it to, knowing what it was that you meant.
    but I’m not blushing.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  83. “to”, I mean, “too”

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  84. The explanation I read from one Greek Orthodox theologian was that it was based on this passage:

    Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

    nk (dbc370)

  85. MD in Philly – I can imagine situations where you need the extreme shelter at home / berlin air lift scenario.

    Now, I would also want *after the emergency had passed* for there to be a sober, nonpartisan audit of everything that was done, to make sure that the power implicit in it wasn’t abused. And I admit that there’s a real risk that in the wrong hands, this power could be abused in a way that causes the emergency to never pass.

    But … life’s risk, right?

    aphrael (001863)

  86. Oops. I just reacted to MD in Philly’s #82 as though it were part of the context of the other conversation in the other thread. I imagine that without that context it looks quite confusing.

    My apologies. :{

    To the point in this thread – I’m not sure how well positioned the Liberian government is to enforce a shelter-in-place policy. I suspect not very.

    aphrael (001863)

  87. no worries, nk. I was just teasing you and I think we all knew what you meant. But the culminating high dudgeon at 77 was pretty awesome! :)

    BTW, I’ve always thought that your calling her your daughter’s mother is charming and shows great respect both to her, and to your daughter and for the relationship that produced her.

    elissa (a3eca3)

  88. aphrael, no apology necessary, your explanation is understood and I assumed a lot in the way I said it
    I am sure the Liberian government does not have the capability to do this, at most, the Liberian government would be responsible for exterior security of the supply line and helping to transport goods to the neighborhood distribution points

    But I doubt anyone who has the power to implement it is thinking along these lines.
    Of course, I could be wrong and nobody else would think of it,
    but, as Monk would say, “…but I don’t think so”.

    Sierra Leone did think of it and did it for, what 3 days?

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  89. elissa (a3eca3) — 10/3/2014 @ 9:32 am
    ditto, esp. the last line

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  90. nk (dbc370) — 10/3/2014 @ 7:53 am

    even though Gates Foundation funded NGOs provide free childhood immunization only 60% [of the people in Cameroon] allow their children to be vaccinated.

    Cameroon is about 20% Sunni Moslem, or some section of it is, and Boko Haram (a branch * of Original al Qaeda ® ™) is active there, and al Qaeda opposed vaccination, and spreads all kinds of rumors that it hurts people.

    * although, their recent proclamation of a caliphate – without a caliph, I’m not sure? – may indicate that they are shifting their allegiance to ISIL/ISIS/the Isamic State.

    Cameroon is noted for being on the list, along with Pakistan and Syria, as being places where polio vaccination has run into trouble.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/09/health/pocket-of-opposition-to-vaccine-threatens-polio-eradication.html

    Opposition to vaccinations against polio by some Islamic leaders in northern Nigeria has led to the spread of the disease to neighboring West African countries, jeopardizing the World Health Organization plan to eradicate it by the end of 2005.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/06/health/world-health-organization-polio-health-emergency.html

    Alarmed by the spread of polio to several fragile countries, the World Health Organization declared a global health emergency on Monday for only the second time since regulations permitting it to do so were adopted in 2007.

    Just two years ago — after a 25-year campaign that vaccinated billions of children — the paralyzing virus was near eradication; now health officials say that goal could evaporate if swift action is not taken.

    Pakistan, Syria and Cameroon have recently allowed the virus to spread — to Afghanistan, Iraq and Equatorial Guinea, respectively — and should take extraordinary measures to stop it, the health organization said.

    Well, at least they have no ebola.

    It won’t do any good for the CIA to promise never to use vaccination as a cover story for anything – it won’t change anything.

    Sammy Finkelman (efc0ed)

  91. Oops. Italics not tutned off.

    There are also rumors being spread in Liberia, and Guinea, which have to be being spread by some malicious group of people, but they are not Moslem, since Liberia is about 1,500 miles away from Boko Haram. Maybe Putin is doing it, or China.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/19/world/africa/fear-of-ebola-drives-mob-to-kill-officials-in-guinea.html?_r=0

    The bodies of eight officials and journalists who went to a remote village in Guinea to dispel rumors about the deadly Ebola outbreak gripping the region were discovered after a rock-hurling mob attacked the delegation, claiming that it had come to spread the illness, a government spokesman said Thursday.

    Just checked. The major world religion in Guinea is Islam. It’s 85% Muslim, almost all sunni, 8% Christian.It was ruled by Kwame Nkrumah for many years.

    All this opposition to vaccinations is probably coming from some Saudi Arabians. They fund moswues and the imams preach against it.

    But something is also going on in Liberia. (40% traditional whatever, 40% Christian, 20% Moslem)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/21/world/africa/ebola-outbreak-liberia-quarantine.html

    Last week, Health Ministry officials quietly turned a primary school in West Point into a holding center for Ebola patients without informing the residents. Over the weekend, hundreds of residents invaded the center, enraged that outsiders were also being transferred there. Their community, they believed, was becoming a dumping ground for Ebola patients. Residents stormed through, running off with a generator and supplies like mattresses, some soaked with the blood of patients who were believed to have Ebola.

    “I can tell you they were uncountable,” said Isaac Toe, 25, a hygienist who was working at the center at the time of the invasion. “The entire West Point community broke in — men, women, children, boys and girls.”

    This didn’t just happen. Somebody, or some organized group rather, must have instigated this.

    That’s the true politics of ebola.

    Sammy Finkelman (efc0ed)

  92. More politics of ebola:

    And then, there’s this professor at Delaware State University:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/09/26/an-american-professor-is-telling-liberians-that-the-u-s-manufactured-ebola-outbreak/

    And now, in what may plant further seeds of mistrust and suspicion, a major Liberian newspaper, the Daily Observer, has published an article by a Liberian-born faculty member of a U.S. university implying the epidemic is the result of bioterrorism experiments conducted by the United States Department of Defense, among others.

    And while some commenting on the article were critical, the number who praised it was telling. “They are using” Ebola, wrote one, “for culling the world population mainly Africa for the…purpose of gaining control of the Africans resources criminally.”

    Now in the 1980s, the source repsonsible for spreading rumors that the U.S. manufactured AIDS was the KGB. So that would point to Vladimir Putin.

    Under the headline, “Ebola, AIDS Manufactured by Western Pharmaceuticals, US DoD?”, it says: “the U.S., Canada, France, and the U.K. are all implicated in the detestable and devilish deeds that these Ebola tests are. There is a need to pursue criminal and civil redress for damages.”

    The U.S., Canada, France, and the U.K.

    But not Russia. Only the democracies. And all of them.

    And not just governments:

    Worse, in the same breath, the semi-intelligible article suggests groups trying to stop the epidemic — Centers for Disease Control, the World Health Organization and Doctors Without Borders — are all somehow in on it. The piece puts them on a list of those “implicated in selecting and enticing African countries to participate in the testing events.”

    Sammy Finkelman (efc0ed)

  93. We would not be prepared to handle the Ebola in this country without Obamacare.

    Thanks, Barky!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  94. daley, that’s what Van Jones said, heard it with my own ears.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  95. There have been at least two dozen Ebola outbreaks in Africa though doctors still do not know exactly how the virus is spread.
    Sammy Finkelman (c2ea77) — 10/2/2014 @ 10:25 pm

    But Sammy can assure the right that soldiers will not be in danger.

    red (2f19f1)


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