Patterico's Pontifications

9/22/2014

Polluting The Climate Change Open-Air Cathedral Without Batting An Eye

Filed under: General — Dana @ 5:51 pm



[guest post by Dana]

This weekend in Manhattan, climate change supporters marched en masse in the People’s Climate March. Clearly, they love the earth more than us:

Tens of thousands of people marched through Manhattan sounding an urgent call for action to reverse global climate change Sunday.

One marcher’s sign read “cut your emissions or you’ll sleep with the fishes.”

The “People’s Climate March” in New York was billed as the largest of several protests held around the world two days before the start of the United Nations’ Climate Summit.

U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon walked with former U.S. Vice President Al Gore along the two-and-a-half mile route. Celebrity protesters included comedian Chris Rock and actors Leonard DiCaprio and Mark Ruffalo, who said he was marching for his children’s future.

And in a royal bit of hypocrisy, those earth lovers who shed tears over the terrible treatment of our planet by climate change naysayers, fossil fuel producers, and all-around enemies of the earth seemed to have forgotten what they were marching about:

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Not to worry though because God is getting dragged into the climate change crusade by The Most Rev. Katharine Jefferts Schori Presiding Bishop and Primate The Episcopal Church:

We are united as Christian leaders in our concern for the well-being of our neighbors and of God’s good creation that provides life and livelihood for all God’s creatures. Daily we see and hear the evidence of a rapidly changing climate. Glaciers are disappearing, the polar ice cap is melting, and sea levels are rising. Incidents of pollution created dead zones in seas and the ocean and toxic algae growth in water supplies are occurring with greater frequency. Most disturbingly, the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is rising at an unprecedented rate. At the same time we also witness in too many instances how the earth’s natural beauty, a sign of God’s wonderful creativity, has been defiled by pollutants and waste.

Many have reacted to these changes with grief and anger. In their outrage some have understandably focused on the neglect and carelessness, both in private industry and in government regulation, that have contributed to these changes. However, an honest accounting requires a recognition that we all participate both as consumers and investors in economies that make intensive and insistent demands for energy. In addition, as citizens we have chosen to support or acquiesce in policies that shift the burdens of climate change to communities that are most vulnerable to its effects. People who are already challenged by poverty and by dislocation resulting from civil war or famine have limited resources for adapting to climate change’s effects.

God, who made the creation and made it good, has not abandoned it. Daily the Spirit continues to renew the face of the earth. All who care for the earth and work for the restoration of its vitality can be confident that they are not pursuing a lost cause. We serve in concert with God’s own creative and renewing power.

Moreover, we need not surrender to political ideologies and other modern mythologies that would divide us into partisan factions — deserving and undeserving, powerless victims and godless oppressors. In Christ we have the promise of a life where God has reconciled the human community.

Maybe The Most Rev. can ask Jesus to remind people that when they claim to live by certain standards and beliefs, that they might want to really actually do so.

Amen.

–Dana

72 Responses to “Polluting The Climate Change Open-Air Cathedral Without Batting An Eye”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  2. gimme gas for my ford keep me truckin for the Lord gimme gas for my ford I praaaaaay

    HALLELUJAH!

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  3. People who are already challenged by poverty and by dislocation resulting from civil war or famine have limited resources for adapting to climate change’s effects.

    i needed a giggle

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  4. Media Matters is upset because the Sunday news shows ignored the march. Apparently, the shows were instead focused on the more mundane matters like ISIS, national security and and al-Queada trying to sneak bombs into the U.S.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  5. Liberals hardly ever act on their beliefs (except to parade and protest).

    To them believing and espousing the correct words are far more important

    and meaningful than actual performance.

    It’s all a charade, a play, an act for their inner critic and their friends

    and those they wish to impress.

    Actual substance, actual results are mere details to be taken care of after

    the accolades and praise is passed around.

    It’s why they fail so much at occupations and actions that require actual,

    meaningful results. FACTS brought to be by hard words and intelligent

    thought with constant adjustments for reality.

    Conversely it’s why they are so adept at make believe, falsehoods, performances

    and words without meaning or ideas without substantial foundation in reality.

    They ignore and disdain historical precedence while demanding blind obedience

    to mob rule and the latest fad.

    jakee308 (d409c2)

  6. Picking up trash is not something for them on the weekend. It is the day job for many of them and for their voters.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  7. Tammie Lee de Cortez Haynes makes a more realistic estimate of the crowd size.

    She comes up with 16K, tops.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  8. Hf, raising awareness is much more important than actually doing something.

    Gazzer (ced68f)

  9. see i wasn’t aware of that

    good work mister

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  10. They also left all that trash so that homeless people could recycle it for Cash. These folks are such givers…

    Gazzer (ced68f)

  11. it ain’t a protest march wifout interpretative dance

    which they had, bless their hearts

    plus puppets

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  12. According to this guy who I never heard of before, who claims to be an insider, [card carrying liberal gasbag who thinks the march was ruined because they didn’t end up blocking traffic in the financial district] the march was co-opted and directed by Obama’s political machine.

    Not in so many words, but like this;

    Sources say Avaaz and 350.org is footing most of the bill for the People’s Climate March with millions of dollars spent. Avaaz is said to have committed a dozen full-time staff, and hired dozens of other canvassers to collect petition signatures and hand out flyers. Nearly all of 350.org’s staff is working on climate marches around the country and there is an office in New York with thirty full-time workers organizing the march. That takes a lot of cheddar. While the grassroots are being mobilized, this is not a grassroots movement. That’s why it’s a mistake to condemn it. People are joining out of genuine concern and passion and hope for an equitable, sustainable world, but the control is top down and behind closed doors. Everyone I talked to described an undemocratic process. Even staffers were not sure who was making the decisions other than to tell me to follow the money. It’s also facile to say all groups are alike. Avaaz is more cautious than 350.org, and apparently the New York chapter of 350.org, which is more radical, is at odds with the national.

    According to him they spent $220,000 on posters advertising on New York Subways.

    Last political rally I was aware of we got two day notice, and you were a huckleberry if you caught it.

    These guys have been advertising for weeks.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  13. This story is merely one of the many examples of the hilarious contradictions and two-faced/phony-baloney aspects of liberals in general, including — based on studies and surveys — they’re being less likely to be generous, tolerant, humane and non-bigoted.

    Mark (c160ec)

  14. Mark, but sadly they are very organized and well financed. They could ram this crap down our necks yet.

    Gazzer (ced68f)

  15. @6, 10– I saw some idiot NY state legislator (pardon the redundancy) explaining that all the trash was OK since there were people of low wage who were employed by the city to pick that stuff up. The homeless people mentioned above are liable to have a problem with the city workers.

    Tonight I saw people interviewed who were trying to explain all the jet fuel burned by some of the luminaries like Gore and DiCaprio…

    @12- Did it dawn on them that it might be hard to get a decent traffic jam in the fnancial district on a weekend. All the financial folk were at the ball games or on the links.

    Gramps, the original (7adb80)

  16. Here is an idea.

    We should just unleash the entirety of our nuclear arsenal on Gaza. Then we can stop climate change cold in its tracks, and save Jesus’s people.

    Michael Ejercito (becea5)

  17. I’m a life long member of the Episcopal Church and have watched it devolve into a mouth piece for the left. Made me feel wonderful to hear my new rector start in about “white privilege” in a recent sermon.

    Robert C. J. Parry (cdd6a8)

  18. oh you have to have someone take them ones aside and tell em how the cow ate the cabbage

    liberals in the pulpit are fine, even sorta cute, but you can’t let them have free rein

    respect is a two-way street not unlike ventura blvd

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  19. Episcopalians. Snicker. The only people who, when watching a Star Wars movie, hear “May the Force be with you” and respond “Also with you”. Their doctrine is whatever the current fashion is.

    nk (dbc370)

  20. Ima buy you a new sundress and take you dancin Mr. Feets

    cuz you such an authoriteh on teh religions

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  21. Mark would probably say these folks are compensating, using their liberalism to compensate for their selfish ways.

    Mark would be right.

    Dustin (b70e31)

  22. ply me with sangria

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  23. Oh, I see I skipped right over his comment.

    But yeah, he’s totally right.

    Dustin (b70e31)

  24. ” Entertainers and stars are all the same thing; they’re all on one side of the issue, they only know that Clinton, is right, the Democrats are right, and no matter how they persecute people or how fraudulent they are, they’re always right. There’s a sick need in actors to prove to themselves that they’re great compassionate people. That they’re great humanitarians because they feel guilty. They’re getting paid for nothing, they get paid billions of dollars for nothing, they know they don’t deserve it, so, because most of them got no talent, they got no brains, they got nothing, they read two lines in a movie every week and a half and they have nine people to help them remember the two lines. They’re basically morons!” — Jackie Mason

    nk (dbc370)

  25. Love me some Jackie Mason. He once singled me and my date out at a show because we arrived after he started. We were also in the front row. He was vicious. It was awesome!

    Gazzer (323e0a)

  26. ==”…sadly they are very organized and well financed. They could ram this crap down our necks yet.” ==
    Gazzer is so right. It’s not the hypocrite media-hungry celebs and the uninformed economics- illiterate duffuses marching and chanting and leaving their refuse on the sidewalk whom we need to worry about.

    Google is breaking ties with the American Legislative Exchange Council, a prominent network of conservative state legislators that, among other projects, works to roll back laws that promote solar and wind power, the company’s chairman said Monday.
    The decision marks a major victory for a campaign by environmentalists, union activists and other liberal groups that have pushed companies to drop support for ALEC. Microsoft ended its ties to the group a few weeks ago.
    “The consensus within the company was that that was some sort of mistake,” Google Executive Chairman Eric Schmidt said, referring to the initial decision to support ALEC. “Everyone understands climate change is occurring, and the people who oppose it are really hurting our children and our grandchildren and making the world a much worse place,” Schmidt said in an interview with National Public Radio’s Diane Rehm. “And so we should not be aligned with such people — they’re just, they’re just literally lying.”

    Sierra Club executive director Michael Brune welcomed Google’s decision to end its ALEC membership. “We should not be electing climate deniers into office and we should not be supporting them in the marketplace,” he said.

    In a statement, Lisa Nelson, ALEC’s chief executive, attributed Google’s move to “public pressure from left-leaning individuals and organizations who intentionally confuse free market policy perspectives for climate change denial.”

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/la-pn-google-conservative-20140922-story.html#navtype=outfit

    elissa (0b0499)

  27. Good to see you elissa.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  28. Despite the scourge of CO2 respired by all living, even the NYT is reporting Ebola has outrun efforts of the West to track its spread and count its victims.

    Sierra Leone authorities may have only accounted for a tenth of its victims.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  29. There sure is a lot of “unsustainable” plastic in that photo, including (shudder) styrofoam.

    pst314 (ae6bd1)

  30. Maybe the Most Rev. Katharine Jefferts Schori can look for new members among the climate change crowd to replace the exodus from the Episcopal church.

    It doesn’t matter if they are Christians, the Bible has little relevance in the modern Episcopal church.

    egd (2130a5)

  31. egd, I left the Episcopal church in 1968 at the age of 17. It was left wing then and I wouldn’t tolerate it. Now it’s no more that a radical leftist propaganda tool. They indoctrinate your kids all week in public school then beat in your brains on Sunday.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  32. Half the congregation of the Episcopalian church in my village went over to the Catholic church.

    I am not going to criticize them on doctrine. It’s not my church. This is an example of what bothers me: The Episcopal church performs same sex marriages in states in which same sex marriage is legal. “Performs same sex marriage” is a religious practice with which I disagree but which I respect as a religious view. “In states in which same sex marriage is legal” is blasphemous. Whom do you worship, bishops? God or the government?

    nk (dbc370)

  33. Say, along with reducing atmospheric CO2 by making the poor freeze to death this winter, we could arrest soil erosion by putting an end to farming.

    That might even save more.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  34. 32. They’re down to 1.5 Million nationally and are forming alliances with other dead Protestant denominations to keep the lights on, e.g. Presbyterians.

    They will become extinct once our generation passes.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  35. @nk 19:

    Episcopalians. Snicker. The only people who, when watching a Star Wars movie, hear “May the Force be with you” and respond “Also with you”. Their doctrine is whatever the current fashion is.

    How is it that you can tell who has the doctrine right?

    Gil (febf10)

  36. What is hilarious is that events have conspired to excise any objective plausibility from the Climate Change death cult.

    Early October we in the north central regions are to be visited once again by the dread Polar Vortex and set modern low temp records for the month.

    While possibly past the peak of Solar Cycle 24, the only prediction for Cycle 25 extant, by Livingston and Penn, early predictors of the weak current cycle with a novel, orthodox model, are predicting the latter to be much weaker still.

    The eagerly wishcast El Nino 2014 ain’t happening, i.e., the Pacific is dumping what little heat it had harmlessly.

    We have a good two decades of cooler weather staring us in face.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  37. 35. Two thousand years of exegesis, Gollum.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  38. Raise your hand if you are surprised Gil showed up in this thread. Mention SSM or religion, and out from under its rock

    JD (285732)

  39. “How is it that you can tell who has the doctrine right?”

    Gil – What don’t you get about the concept that in this country, unlike some others, people are free to believe in whatever faith they choose and others are free to criticize other faiths.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  40. People who are already challenged by poverty and by dislocation resulting from civil war or famine have limited resources for adapting to climate change’s effects.

    What about adapting to reductions to all the laws and regulations intended to reduce carbon dioxide emissions?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  41. We have a good two decades of cooler weather staring us in face.

    Weather is an open ended chaotic system that can’t be predicted two weeks out. The error bars expand exponentially so you can’t predict anything. Progresses from coin flip after a week, to crap shoot after two weeks, to pick a card magic trick after a month, and lottery odds after that.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  42. 41. Two decades of weather is equal to climate, and a change.

    We are in a regime of negative phase PDO which is fairly reliable and ought to last another quarter century. That alone means drier, cooler weather for N. America. Couple that with lower input from the Sun and we should see on the outside a 2 degree C decline in our average of average temperatures.

    This will mean a shorter growing season, lower latitude of northern crop margins, lower crop outputs.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  43. Russia is holding a massive military exercise,

    involving a mindblowing 155,000 troops, more than the armies of most sovereign nations, 4,000 armoured vehicles, 632 planes and helicopters and 84 vessels.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  44. Gary. You’re wandering out on a limb. Doesn’t strike you a bit presumptuous setting terms on the sun?
    You should include odds with that gamble.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  45. I just saw a photo of that vulgar, disrespectful POS returning a salute from two Marine Sgts. with a Styrofoam coffee cup in his hand. He didn’t even look at the two men sworn to guard him as he stepped off AF 2. What a worthless POS this guy is and so are his followers. This guy’s gotta go.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  46. CNS News is reporting:

    The UN Climate Summit 2014 is a glaring example of hypocrisy. Just the speakers alone, not the attendees or notable guests for the summit, traveled a grand total of 1,036,537 miles from locations as distant as China, India and Peru. That’s enough miles to circle the equator41.6 times.

    According to the UN itself, in the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, “more than 95 percent of our total carbon footprint resulted from air travel.”

    Typical leftists. Liars, hypocrites, frauds and charlatans all of them!

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  47. 45. Thanx 4 your concern. I’m a big boy.

    gary Gulrud (46ca75)

  48. @daley 39:

    Gil – What don’t you get about the concept that in this country, unlike some others, people are free to believe in whatever faith they choose and others are free to criticize other faiths.

    I fully understand and agree. That is why I feel free to criticize religious beliefs. I noted that nk did the same with regards to the Episcopalian and I was wondering how he determines which doctrine is in fact the right one. Care to weigh in?

    Gil (27c98f)

  49. “Care to weigh in?”

    Gil – If you paused to think about your questions before airing them you would probably spare yourself a lot of ridicule.

    Why not ask yourself why we have so many major religions in the world and within those religions sub-branches. Would it make sense that the followers of any one doctrine believe theirs is the best or right one for them, let alone true. Who am I to make decisions for someone else? Nobody. I don’t have that power. Yet here you are thinking somebody can magically pick one true doctrine or are just wasting everybody’s time with ignorant close-mined trolling.

    Seriously, Gil, there are religious blogs where you can easily test out your intellectual insecurities regarding your beliefs rather than continuing to threadjack here.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  50. I was wondering how he determines which doctrine is in fact the right one. Care to weigh in?

    Gil (27c98f) — 9/23/2014 @ 7:02 pm

    If that was a serious question it would deserve a serious response. That type of discussion can go on a long time. But it’s not a serious question. It’s some kind of weird game he has to play.

    Gerald A (d65c67)

  51. Gil, I’ll discuss anything with atheists from aardvarks to zygotes, but not religion. I expect to hear nothing from them regarding religion that would be true, kind, or useful. Just the opposite. You’re worse than a waste of time. And I’m not going to beat up the Episcopal church for you, either. Whatever their practices, they at least make an effort. Unlike you.

    You know, I even question the sincerity of your professed agnosticism/atheism/humanism. On the Ayan Hirsi Ali thread you were ready to side with the liberal enemies of an atheist. Here, you seem to be fine with the Episcopal church because it has the “correct” political views. I think you’re just a suckass progressive who’ll say any s**t. M’kay? daleyrocks gave you good advice: Go troll somewhere else.

    Kay Ann (dbc370)

  52. And that was me.

    nk (dbc370)

  53. i have a card what’s good for $10 off at pf changs

    happyfeet (a785d5)

  54. Why not ask yourself why we have so many major religions in the world and within those religions sub-branches.

    Now youre on the right track! I did ask myself that years ago.

    Would it make sense that the followers of any one doctrine believe theirs is the best or right one for them, let alone true.

    I should hope so. It would be sad if someone spent a lifetime of Sundays eating crackers and drinking cheap wine for something they didn’t think was true.

    Who am I to make decisions for someone else? Nobody. I don’t have that power. Yet here you are thinking somebody can magically pick one true doctrine or are just wasting everybody’s time with ignorant close-mined trolling.

    Close minded? I was just trying to understand nk’s basis for ridiculing Episcopalians and here I am under attack! When did I claim someone could pick one true doctrine?

    Seriously, Gil, there are religious blogs where you can easily test out your intellectual insecurities regarding your beliefs rather than continuing to threadjack here.

    But I like reading Paterico! And my fello readers are so tolerant!

    Gil (27c98f)

  55. I was just trying to understand nk’s basis for ridiculing Episcopalians.

    Gil (27c98f) — 9/23/2014 @ 7:38 pm

    That’s a lie. You’re not trying to understand anything.

    Gerald A (d65c67)

  56. For my fellow commenters, not Gil, I do distinguish between the clerical hierarchy of the Episcopal church and Episcopalians, many of whom feel that their church has been taken away from them. Hey, guys, the Greek Orthodox Church is also synodical you know. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  57. Welcome back, elissa!

    But I like reading Paterico! And my fello readers are so tolerant!

    That’s great, Gil, and yes, fellow readers are tolerant – except for when they’re so obviously – and so amateurishly – being trolled. So drop the juvenile crap, and join the discussion.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  58. “When did I claim someone could pick one true doctrine?”

    Gil – So you admit your that questions were not serious and you are just trolling then.

    “How is it that you can tell who has the doctrine right?”

    “I noted that nk did the same with regards to the Episcopalian and I was wondering how he determines which doctrine is in fact the right one.”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  59. @Dana 38

    That’s great, Gil, and yes, fellow readers are tolerant – except for when they’re so obviously – and so amateurishly – being trolled. So drop the juvenile crap, and join the discussion.

    I asked a very simple question with no animosity which was followed up by insinuating that I don’t understand basic rights (39), called ignorant and close minded (50), insincere (51) worse than a waste of time (52), and im the one who’s out of line. Ok Ill try to be more careful in the future.

    @Gerald 56

    That’s a lie. You’re not trying to understand anything.

    My first post in this thread was a question following up to nk’s snickering about Episcopalian doctrine. It was not mean spirited, and I did not make fun of his beliefs. How have you determined that Im lying about that fact?

    @nk 57

    For my fellow commenters, not Gil, I do distinguish between the clerical hierarchy of the Episcopal church and Episcopalians, many of whom feel that their church has been taken away from them.

    That’s nice except that your comment 19 was a snicker about Episcopalians and their doctrine. It had nothing to do with how their church was taken over.

    Have a nice day!

    Gil (27c98f)

  60. Your history informs the reaction to your mendoucheity, Gil

    JD (285732)

  61. “I asked a very simple question with no animosity which was followed up by insinuating that I don’t understand basic rights (39), called ignorant and close minded (50), insincere (51) worse than a waste of time (52), and im the one who’s out of line.”

    Gil – Which part of the above description is untrue?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  62. 48. Very well then. This is NOAA’s graph of the PDO since 1925. I defy you to find anything resembling a periodicity of 25 years, or indeed any repeated pattern at all.
    Digging deeper into the reference, The Pacific Decadal Oscillation and Climate Forecasting for North America
    By Nathan Mantua, Ph. D.
    , We find out that NOAA has given their PDO chart a severe historical rewrite, heating the 90’s considerably with regard to their own reference.

    Properly discounting the conceit of Noaa’s Global Warming Era, the PDO shifted in 1998. That makes it 16 years in a negative POD regime, and you claim it won’t flip again for another 25, making a grand total longer than any previously recorded PDO regime, be it positive or negative?

    Well I say nuts to that mister.
    You might as well hit Vegas and ride that lucky streak.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  63. I’ll defer to your ability to predict the sun’s weather.

    And if it really works, I’d try the stock market next. If I were you.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  64. Obama can just solve all this kerfuffle by signing an Executive Order mandating cost effective renewable fuel for next year and people will make it happen, right? 85% Renewables in 2015!!!!11ty!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  65. I was just trying to understand nk’s basis for ridiculing Episcopalians.

    He does not know any Universalist Unitarians.

    SPQR (c4e119)

  66. 63. The period is 60 years and is well known for a phenomena described for the first time w/in the last quarter century(Mantua).

    The recent shift, relatively speaking, occurred around 2007-8, having last shifted circa 1977.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/29/nasa-pdo-flip-to-cool-phase-confirmed-cooler-times-ahead/

    In central MN our climate has changed, this year colder than any back to 1880 with the coming year expected to repeat the pattern.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  67. gary – This Summer we had field mice come into our scouts’ platform tents and nest and give birth in their gear due to the cold. First time I have seen that in 17 years going to scout camp. Many of the baby field mice were not discovered before scouts left and did not survive the trip home after getting squished in backpacks or dufflebags, but provided nice surprises for mom and dad. 🙂

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  68. 69. LOL. We had two days all summer in the 90’s, just one of the two was accompanied by a high dew point near 70 F. The 3000 acre lake I get to visit some was 68 F the second week of July when it would normally be about 74.

    Oh, the relevant paper on the PDO & AMO phase associated temperature and precipitation is McCabe 2004, also found at NOAA.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  69. gary – It was in the 40s overnight in late July at camp.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  70. 70. Normal toward the end of August. Back in 82 I spent July in Lacrosse, WI, granted somewhat south. Every single day the high was 90 or above, a couple days in the 100s. That year and ’88, the summer Yellowstone burned were the hottest years I can recall.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  71. I’m a lifelong Episcopalian, and embarrassed. Thank goodness Katharine Jefferts Schori is almost done. The problem is who comes next.

    The real beauty of the Episcopal Church is that thought and reason are (or used to be) encouraged. Unfortunately the entire leadership structure has been taken over by a leadership club that values the “correct” politics and fashionable causes over true thoughtful discussion.

    And they just CAN’T seem to understand why individual churches and entire diocese are choosing to break away…..

    cAPS lOCK dAVE (d75967)


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