Refusing To Believe There Is Such A Thing As Evil
[guest post by Dana]
Earlier this week, I put up a post wherein Thomas Friedman opined that the terror group ISIS feels shame at what it is doing. I found myself simultaneously unsurprised and yet incredulous that he would ascribe a functioning moral code to a group like ISIS. Because really?
MDinPhilly commented:
Some people just refuse to believe there is such a thing as evil, and such a thing as good.
Maybe they have a deep down and intense desire to refuse to deal with the implications of such moral and spiritual realities.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/9/2014 @ 7:18 am
I agree with this and as such, have been thinking about the reluctance or inability of some to assign a reality of evil in this world. Of course, the reluctance to believe it exists in human form is nothing new. More than sixty years ago, a smart man understood that in order to convince the world of a very real manifestation of pure evil and to prevent any attempts at erasure or denial, it would be necessary to record and visually preserve what had taken place. However, as this new face of evil becomes increasingly defined and personified in its brazenly brutal demonstrated reality, can a tipping point ever be reached that would actually compel the Friedmans of the world to, and without hesitation, acknowledge and agree that there is evil? A shameless, nonredeemable evil that seeks to destroy all who get in its way, an evil from which there is no coming back, no rehabilitation possible, and no want of it either for it does not value life and the currency preferred is death? Perhaps those who soft-pedal evil simply cannot wrap their minds around the breadth and depth of brutality – in spite of visual evidence and confirmation. However, I tend to believe that it’s that their own personal fear that demands any possible declaration of evil be kept at bay, lest it shatter core foundational beliefs that all people are inherently good. And if a dismantling of that core belief happens, what is one left with?
Consider the Catholic, Washington-based Maryknoll Office for Global Concerns and 53 national religious groups trying to persuade the president that military efforts are not the answer to stem the onslaught of ISIS:
“U.S. military action is not the answer. We believe that the way to address the crisis is through long-term investments in supporting inclusive governance and diplomacy, nonviolent resistance, sustainable development, and community-level peace and reconciliation processes.”
Further, presenting bullet points of advisement in the name of Jesus, they claim they want to protect all people, but there are “better, more effective, more healthy and more humanizing ways” to accomplish this:
*Stop U.S. bombing in Iraq “to prevent bloodshed, instability and the accumulation of grievances.”
*Provide “robust humanitarian assistance” to refugees fleeing the violence, “in coordination with the United Nations.”
*Engage with the UN, all Iraqi political and religious leaders, and others in the international community on diplomatic efforts.
*Support community-based nonviolent resistance strategies to transform the conflict and meet the deeper need and grievances of all parties.
*Strengthen financial sanctions against armed actors in the region by working through the UN Security Council.
*Bring in professionally trained unarmed civilian protection organizations.
*An arms embargo on all parties to the conflict.
*Support Iraqi civil society efforts to build peace, reconciliation, and accountability at the community level.
With what I consider a mind-boggling view of human nature, I question if that elusive tipping point would come even if these Friedmans of the world most horribly found themselves with their own necks under the murderous blade of ISIS.
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (4dbf62) — 9/13/2014 @ 11:49 amBring in professionally trained unarmed civilian protection organizations.
precious monkeys
too cute
happyfeet (a785d5) — 9/13/2014 @ 11:52 amthe Maryknolls were the ones Tip O’Neil listened to, when it came to the Sandinistas, whenever Contra funding came up, as you see from the other link, the people we are partnering with, trained through Saudi or Qatari auspices, are indeed willing to partner with ISIS, and there seems to be little objection to that,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/13/2014 @ 11:59 amIt seems to me that liberals are very likely to see true ‘evil’ when they look at conservatives. I know that somewhat trivializes the arguments put forth in the article, but there it is. They actively hate conservatives because they are good and we are evil.
TimothyJ (a33d78) — 9/13/2014 @ 12:07 pmRefusal to recognize intrinsic Evil allows one to also ignore
intrinsic Good.
Most liberals don’t want to acknowledge a outside source of either.
That upsets their rejection of God (and the Devil).
Nor that that they have existed for at least as long as humans have
recorded events.
For if there is eternal and intrinsic Evil in the world it’s a short
step to believing that there is a ultimate source and that there is
an ultimate source of eternal and intrinsic Good.
This leaves no room for them to be masters of all they survey.
jakee308 (ba1e65) — 9/13/2014 @ 12:16 pmI want to bring as much attention to this terrible murder as I can – the kid was a great kid, full of promise, a loving son who believed in service to others.
He had just finished his freshman year at UR- and he was killed by a crazed wannabee jihadi – although his murder was first painted as a common robbery.
http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/state-regional/ur-student-might-have-been-slain-as-vengeance-for-u/article_9975226e-3a90-11e4-86fa-0017a43b2370.html
SarahW (267b14) — 9/13/2014 @ 12:41 pmPorky porky Chris Christie’s New Jersey is a fertile swamp for this sort of rambunctiousness and very adept at looking the other way
happyfeet (a785d5) — 9/13/2014 @ 12:52 pmRepublicans are the living proof that evil exists!
rodham (2f3b4c) — 9/13/2014 @ 1:03 pmyes, that’s a blind spot the size of a womprat, interesting when Cruz speaks out in favor of Israel, in an assembly of Middle East Christians,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/13/2014 @ 1:10 pmhttp://libertyunyielding.com/2014/09/12/walk-cruz-rebukes-anti-israel-audience-iran-linked-defend-christians-conference-video/
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/13/2014 @ 1:17 pmJan Karski tried to tell President Roosevelt in 1943, and Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter, who chose to respond “I don’t believe him (Karski)! The message was about the Holocost. Karski later wrote this:
“Democratic societies demonstrated on this occasion as on many others, before and after, that they are incapable of understanding political regimes of a different character….Democratic societies are accustomed to think in liberal, pragmatic categories; conflicts are believed to be based on misunderstandings and can be solved with a minimum of good will; extremism is a temporary aberration, so is irrational behavior in general, such as intolerance, cruelty, etc. The effort needed to overcome such basic psychological handicaps is immense….Each new generation faces this challenge again, for experience cannot be inherited.”
Shorter version of a great man’s words: Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.”
Evil exists…..
reff (4f9efd) — 9/13/2014 @ 1:20 pmThat’s only one link….can’t post from the phone….
reff (4f9efd) — 9/13/2014 @ 1:21 pmmiddle eastern Christians should try having more better manners and maybe people would be nicer to them
happyfeet (a785d5) — 9/13/2014 @ 1:25 pmI am too much of the mind that those in denial of the existence of evil are saturated in it.
htom (412a17) — 9/13/2014 @ 1:31 pmIf Perry didn’t exist, it would be hard to make him up.
JD (2e13be) — 9/13/2014 @ 1:32 pmjake308,
Yes.
Dana (4dbf62) — 9/13/2014 @ 1:46 pmThere is a drastic, fundamental difference between western and Islamic morality which must always be taken into account. The notion of “good” in Islam is not an absolute concept. By definition, Mohammed is deemed the “perfect man” and anything done by him is _by definition_ good. This includes beheadings, pedophilia, raping widows of men he just beheaded, etc. Therefore, the actions of ISIS, while considered abhorrent to most societies, are perfectly in agreement with Islamic doctrine. This difference is especially significant when dealing with Salafis, who are convinced that their behavior is most pure, since it most closely resembles that of Mohammed and his early 7th century followers.
The above paragraph may sound “islamophobic” but it’s not. You can verify this by reading Robert Spencer’s writings on the subject or even Islamist websites such as Hizb ut Tahrir. They are not ashamed in the least by their behavior – they are proud of it and feel completely justified. They kill and rape with enthusiasm. Until the West comes to understand this essential contrast in morality with Muslim, and especially Salafist, thought, we will always be at a disadvantage.
johnw (ac0f77) — 9/13/2014 @ 1:52 pmThe MaryKnolls went hard left in the 70s and 80s when “Liberation Theology” was a big deal, especially in Central America. A Sandinista minister was a Jesuit priest. Pope Paul II tried very hard to eliminate that lunacy but I fear it will come back with the Argentine Pope.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 9/13/2014 @ 1:53 pmThe evil people think they are good, though, and are fervent in their goodness.
The ISIS folks go to bed at night after killing another 100 unbelievers thinking that Paradise is just another day closer at hand. I’m sure there were Nazis at Treblinka thinking similar things.
Really the only thing you can do is kill them as fast as possible, which on the face of it sounds like the same thing.
But it isn’t, as there is no such thing as moral relativism.
Kevin M (b357ee) — 9/13/2014 @ 1:53 pmSomebody once asked Gandhi what he thought would have happened if he’d tried his non-violent resistance tactic against the Nazis. “They’d have shot us all” he said.
mojo (4a927a) — 9/13/2014 @ 1:59 pmhttp://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/09/the-american-conservative-embraces-the-islamic-supremacist-agenda
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/13/2014 @ 2:08 pmmojo- that’s interesting, I’m not doubting you, but are you sure that’s verifiable, a quick look via google seems to have people arguing the point. I would love to see it verified.
Back in the 70’s (I think) there was a pop-psychology book titled “I’m OK, You’re OK” (never read it).
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/13/2014 @ 2:25 pmSome years later there was a tee-shirt with a picture of Jesus on the cross from shoulders up with blood from His crown of thorns, with the caption, “If I’m OK and you’re OK, explain this”.
A little too “in your face” for my disposition, but it makes the point.
narciso, yeah, I need periodically to remind myself of the naming game:
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/13/2014 @ 2:29 pmif it has “people’s” or “democratic” in the name, it probably isn’t
if it has “Christian” in it, the Apostles may not recognize it
if it has “conservative” in it, it may be disinformation
it’s like that voltaire clip that the president used, to diminish the ‘Islamic State’
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/13/2014 @ 2:33 pmI’m inclined to sort of agree – but what are we to make of the fact that these are religious groups making the above recommendations?
Also, as we see from one poster, liberals do in fact think there is evil, i.e. conservatives/Republicans. So the “liberals don’t believe there is evil” notion is not exactly right.
Gerald A (d65c67) — 9/13/2014 @ 2:40 pmAs a practicing Catholic, I consider the Maryknolls the ‘crazy’ uncle of the family that has occasional bits of wisdom, but usually stays in the corner, drunk and ranting about black helicopters. They are quaint.
Charles Martel (5cb2de) — 9/13/2014 @ 2:46 pm“So the “liberals don’t believe there is evil” notion is not exactly right.”
Gerald A – If liberals believe the State is the source of good, than anybody who seeks to diminish the power of the state must be bad. In Obama’s formulation, we all belong to the state.
With an Islamic state, religion and government are inseparable. Why would multi culti liberals complain. Plus they seem to have been turning their heads to Saudi Arabia beheading large numbers of people for years.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/13/2014 @ 2:59 pmOn his Friday night TV show Bill Maher asked Nancy Pelosi to explain the consequences of recent polling which shows the GOP is likely to win enough Senate races to displace Harry Reid and become the majority party. He asked her to explain why it matters.
“It would be very important for the Democrats to retain control of the Senate,” Pelosi said, “Civilization as we know it today would be in jeopardy if the Republicans win the Senate.”
ropelight (b71e47) — 9/13/2014 @ 3:00 pmHere’s a hypothesis: the people in the Maryknoll Office for Blah Blah are paid to strike attitudes; putting out press releases is what they do for a living. On a mundane basis, I’ll wager they are very remote from anything disagreeable other than the office politics you see in agencies which do not have robust operational measures of competence, and their imaginations are too impoverished to ponder much that they do not palpably experience. Look at the list. On it are organizational functionaries and academics. The very second name on the list is a Presbyterian apparatchik who has not been a working minister in 20 years (and I wager most of them have done very little of that sort of work, though he has). Some of them are professional leftists within their denominations and orders (“Promoter of Peace and Justice”) and some within letterhead organizations (“Franciscan Action Network”).
Art Deco (ee8de5) — 9/13/2014 @ 3:02 pmOn a mundane basis, I’ll wager they are very remote from anything disagreeable other than the office politics you see in agencies which do not have robust operational measures of competence
i do not know what this means
happyfeet (a785d5) — 9/13/2014 @ 3:04 pmAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke
Irish orator, philosopher, & politician (1729 – 1797)
we’re there, and the current world state of affairs proves how right he was.
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/13/2014 @ 3:09 pmObama’s Hawkish Plan For Islamic State Puts Doves In A Quandary
this is a real title of a real article at National Soros Radio
food stamp’s bomb sprinkles are “hawkish” according to them
but you and me we know the truth
but they’re shameless in advancing the argument that this is all the Republicans’ fault:
it’s interesting though that there’s no actual quote from the Code Pink whore where she actually says that “Republicans goaded Obama into taking his aggressive position, and Democrats in Congress aren’t willing to stand up to a Democratic president just before midterm elections”
this is how you can tell National Soros Radio is trying to craft and sell a narrative
they have their marching orders
happyfeet (a785d5) — 9/13/2014 @ 3:13 pmwell they would be the first to organize relief convoys to ISIS, like they did in the last engagement,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/13/2014 @ 3:30 pmbtw, David Haines, the brit is dead,
here’s another stupid propaganda slut
this one is named Alicia Maule – she writes that”
but if you click through to the survey it’s clear the actual number is 47%
the reason Alicia gets the number wrong is cause she’s a stupid eager beaver MSNBC propaganda slut I think, but you may have other theories
happyfeet (a785d5) — 9/13/2014 @ 3:37 pmoops there’s not supposed to be quotey quotes after “that”
happyfeet (a785d5) — 9/13/2014 @ 3:38 pmNone are so blind as those that refuse to see.
askeptic (efcf22) — 9/13/2014 @ 3:38 pm“… We must not close our minds
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/13/2014 @ 3:50 pmWe must let our thoughts be free”
a break from evil… go to the 2:45 mark…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfzZZI8Yglc&sns=em
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/13/2014 @ 3:54 pmMr. Feets – You ask that Ms. Benjamin for me why President Obama is going to war or going to counter-terror or whatever in Iraq after declaring victory if there are no WMD there, mkay.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/13/2014 @ 3:56 pmthe Republicans made food stamp do it Mr. daley
they goaded him
happyfeet (a785d5) — 9/13/2014 @ 3:59 pmMD — regardless of the usefulness of Transactional Analysis, the book’s title is the desired end state. The T-shirt is just tasteless.
The phrase I’m OK, You’re OK is one of four “life positions” that each of us may take. The four positions are:
I’m Not OK, You’re OK
I’m Not OK, You’re Not OK
I’m OK, You’re Not OK
I’m OK, You’re OK
The most common position is I’m Not OK, You’re OK. As children we see that adults are large, strong and competent and that we are little, weak and often make mistakes, so we conclude I’m Not OK, You’re OK. Children who are abused may conclude I’m Not OK, You’re Not OK or I’m OK, You’re Not OK, but this is much less common. The emphasis of the book is helping people understand how their life position affects their communications (transactions) and relationships with practical examples.
(from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27m_OK,_You%27re_OK )
htom (412a17) — 9/13/2014 @ 4:02 pmsorry here’s the link for propaganda slut Alicia Maule’s stupid article (#34 above)
happyfeet (a785d5) — 9/13/2014 @ 4:04 pm…Pelosi said, “Civilization as we know it today would be in jeopardy if the Republicans win the Senate.”
Hardly all that civilized a civilization you’ve got going there, SanFran Nan. So if it’s in jeopardy, thank goodness. Therefore, from your lips to God’s ears.
Whether liberal, centrist or conservative, people who are poor judges of character, as you are Nancy, are not to be trusted. Anyone who has a hard time identifying the good and bad in both people and situations, or, worse of all, transposing the two — as liberals like you, Nancy, have a knack for doing, time and time again — is suffering from a form of mental deficiency.
Mark (c160ec) — 9/13/2014 @ 4:05 pmMaryknoll is not off the mark. Good does not have armies. Armies of Evil fight other armies of Evil. The Meek shall inherit the Earth. He who kills with the sword, by the sword shall he be killed.
The question is “When?” Are we in the Final Days?
nk (dbc370) — 9/13/2014 @ 4:15 pmthe final days of failmerica maybe
but she done that on her whore self
happyfeet (a785d5) — 9/13/2014 @ 4:18 pmIt could be the winnowing. It’s been nice knowing you, happyfeet.
nk (dbc370) — 9/13/2014 @ 4:21 pmi reject this winnowing and all that it stands for
happyfeet (a785d5) — 9/13/2014 @ 4:28 pmMaryknoll is not off the mark. Good does not have armies. Armies of Evil fight other armies of Evil. The Meek shall inherit the Earth. He who kills with the sword, by the sword shall he be killed.
I guess you’ll have to define “good” in this context. (Some would argue that of course good has armies – those who fight in the name of Christ who understand an eternal endgame, no?)
Dana (4dbf62) — 9/13/2014 @ 4:40 pmare we an ‘army of evil’ nk, of course Matthew 24, would make one dismiss that notion, ‘it will come as in the time of Noah’
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/13/2014 @ 4:42 pmGood is Christ. Evil is the Devil.
nk (dbc370) — 9/13/2014 @ 4:56 pmISIS just released another video which appears to show a British aid worker being beheaded. If only the Maryknolls were there to reassure the executioner, It’s okay, we understand. They might have saved a life.
Dana (4dbf62) — 9/13/2014 @ 5:04 pmhtom (412a17) — 9/13/2014 @ 4:02 pm
Thank you for some clarity on the reference.
nk, I will grant you there is no nation that is truly “good”,
but do you suggest that nations of aggression be allowed to gobble up and oppress at will?
I think it is clear that Jesus commands to be gracious, forgiving, and doing good to enemies, but I do not think he meant to the exclusion of rational self defense, or even further, the defense of innocents.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/13/2014 @ 5:08 pmwell you said, armies of evil, vs, other armies of evil, when the US army aided the Tsaldaris, in repealing the Yugoslav based guerillas, was it evil?
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/13/2014 @ 5:09 pmBring in professionally trained unarmed civilian protection organizations.
Let those who feel strongly about this be the first to go,
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/13/2014 @ 5:10 pmwith the understanding there will be no intervention to help them if things don’t work out as planned.
And if they are not willing to go, they should be quiet.
assymetrical warfare has many facets”
http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2014/09/13/myron-vs-atilla/
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/13/2014 @ 5:31 pmhttp://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/11/syrian-rebels-we-ll-use-u-s-weapons-to-fight-assad-whether-obama-likes-it-or-not.html?via=desktop&source=twitter
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/13/2014 @ 6:01 pmMD, I don’t know that there is any person who truly good, with the exception of my mother of course. I believe the Devil’s reputation is that he deceives? I am inclined to believe that he will be more likely to say “You are good, he is evil, kill him!” than he is to say “Do me a solid, be evil and kill him.”
I have no philosophical quandaries about self-defense. It’s a judgment. You value the thing you are protecting more than the thing that is threatening it. And you will be judged for your judgment.
nk (dbc370) — 9/13/2014 @ 6:39 pmnarciso, #53, please. You are talking about family matters. One of my father’s brothers was for sure killed by the Communists; another was just found shot dead at a crossroads. My mother’s brother was a free-lance sniper for the Greek government. Kind of like a Tom Horn. He received three separate death sentences, when things had calmed down and some of the X were tried for being overenthusiastic in defense of freedom and democracy, but they were commuted. He had a fearful reputation. The other X were afraid of him. My mother’s village was called Mother of Rebels. The stories I could tell you. And I think it was the British, not the Americans, who paid the 50 gold sovereign bounties for the heads of rebels (the actual heads) and I think that’s kind of evil. Like the Chihuahua scalp-hunters.
nk (dbc370) — 9/13/2014 @ 6:50 pmYou are good, he is evil, kill him!” than he is to say “Do me a solid, be evil and kill him.”
True, nk,
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/13/2014 @ 7:03 pmbut I think he is just as likely to say, “You’re no better than them, there is nothing worth fighting for, you can have peace in your time” until death is at the door and kicking it down.
BTW, armies of Evil vs. armies of Evil; Evil devouring itself while Good simply ascends, is an Apocalyptic concept that I am definitely not clear on myself. But it’s not something that I’d sneer at some Christians for having.
nk (dbc370) — 9/13/2014 @ 7:16 pmnk, it is also possible that it is evil vs evil after the good have all been martyred.
I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. Rev. 6:9b-11
The thing about the end is that no one knows the hour or day, and things have been quite terrible at times in the past when some thought it could have been the day, but it wasn’t.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/13/2014 @ 7:53 pmI was pointing that out, MD, there may be signs, and wonders, but that time we do not know,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/13/2014 @ 7:56 pmwe just got a new custard shop
happyfeet (a785d5) — 9/13/2014 @ 8:13 pmcertainly, narciso
I didn’t mean to slight your addition, I was just focused on the back and forth with nk
Some say Matt 24 has to do with the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, some say it has to do with the end, some would say that as often in prophecy that it does both, that the prophet “sees the mountaintops” and doesn’t always communicate the distance between peaks
(but I imagine you know this, and more)
Of course, in the last 70 years or so Jerusalem and the Jewish nation have looked in peril of being overrun from all sides several times and haven’t been.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/13/2014 @ 8:21 pm61. “The thing about the end is that no one knows the hour or day, and things have been quite terrible at times in the past when some thought it could have been the day, but it wasn’t.”
‘Some thought’ seldom turns on students of prophecy, history, and current affairs. Frequently it calls hailing the end find their source in a charismatic charlatan, like, you know.
My by no means obsessive interest in fulfillment of end time prophecies focusses simply on the apparent plethora, without exception that comes to mind, that are now falling into place.
Just one, the Abomination Causing Desolation. The first appearance is the Torah, worshippers of Chemosh and Molech sacrifice their children by “passing them through the fire”. These were the Ammonites and Moabites, sons of Lots daughters, situated on the east of the Jordan and Dead Sea.
Next it is mentioned in Maccabees, where we find Antiochus Epiphanes sacrificing a pig on the altar. But then in AD 70 the Temple is destroyed. And soon Israel, not to say a Jewish Jerusalem, passes from history.
In 689 the foundation of Dome of the Rock is laid, completed in 691. Daniel says “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290” [units of time] until the end. Might not the end have a duration as well? “A time, times an half of a time.”
Anyone seen the ninjas jumping through hoops ablaze? How about children blowing themselves to smithereens. Where exactly is Gehenna, the vale of Hinnom in today’s Jerusalem?
Today was much like yesterday, tomorrow will be the same.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 9/13/2014 @ 9:13 pmfind their source in a charismatic charlatan
Very true.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/14/2014 @ 5:37 amtrue, Gehenna was the actual valley of death,
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/09/crazy_things_progressives_believe.html
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/14/2014 @ 5:54 amDr. Robert Moynihan’s letter #24 announced the IDC conference which led me to check out the group’s website. I was astonished to find a very unchristian spirit in the writing and posturing there. I felt there was something very wrong here. I knew that Cruz was scheduled to speak at the upcoming IDC conference (as well as a few D politicians)and I wondered how the conference organizers had accomplished this.
I was very happy to hear Cruz begin his speech with a call to solidarity with our spiritual elder brothers and sisters, the Chosen Jewish people of God. It was the best way to shine a bright light of truth on the attendees who manifested their hidden agenda. I hope the IDC fades into oblivion after this.
felipe (40f0f0) — 9/14/2014 @ 8:51 amfelipe, I’m not sure that starting a speech to Arabs, even Christian Arabs, with a call to support Israel is the most politic thing to do. Moreover, people can disagree with Netanyahu’s policies without being anti-semitic. Likud has only 19/120 seats in the Knesset which is composed of 13 parties. 😉
nk (dbc370) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:04 amWhen you’re right, you’re right, nk.
felipe (40f0f0) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:12 amBut let’s talk about evil. Texas has a law that says you can kill a non-violent thief if it’s nighttime. One guy shoots an escort in the back while she’s walking away with his $150.00 without having given him sex. She died six months later, paralyzed in a hospital. Another guy shoots a teenage boy in the back for trying to run out of his convenience store with a case of beer. DOA. The first guy was acquitted; I don’t know if the second one was even prosecuted.
I doubt very much that Minos, Radamanthus and Acteus will apply Texas law. These guys are going into the lake of boiling blood. But that’s the easy question. What if, when the three judges of the damned look into these guys’ hearts, they see that they would not have done it if the Texas legislature had not told them that it was okay to do it? Will the legislators who voted for the law be joining them?
nk (dbc370) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:12 amWait, didn’t Likud have 20 seats? Who did they lose?
felipe (40f0f0) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:18 amIt wasn’t any particular policy of Israel they had a problem with.
It was saying Israel was basically good, and the Christians had no greater ally than the Jewish state.. He could have said potential, but that wasn’t the problem.
Cruz really started to get booed when when he attacked “those who hate Israel”
Ross Douthat of the New York Times made excuses for them – and indeed they have a problem – although basically they are saying “Go kill the Jews, don’t kill us” and that doesn’t buy them immunity. If it helps at all, it only shows the depth of the evil in the Middle East.
Douthat:
Cruz actually was not recognizing the presence of evil in the world, and the fact that people make compromises with evil.
Well..
I just say drop all notions of making peace until the evil is eradicated. and stop pretending people are giving their honest opinion, or could ,?i? make peace with Israel or have genuine quarrels.
Make excuses for them, yes, I say, but don’t whatever they say seriously.
Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:20 amfelipe (40f0f0) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:18 am
Wait, didn’t Likud have 20 seats? Who did they lose?
They have roportional reprsentation and are split into small groups.
The right easily can expect more than a majority of 60 in most elections. The public may be ore hawkish than Netanyahu right now, in the sense of wanting to finish up Hamas in Gaza. Netanyahu thinks that could be a terrible distraction.
Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:23 amJust checked the Knesset factions webpage. You are right. Like I said…
felipe (40f0f0) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:23 am* ….stop pretending people are giving their honest opinion, or could make peace with Israel, or that have genuine quarrels.
Make excuses for them, yes, I say, but don’t take whatever they say seriously.
Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:25 amHmmm. The 19 seats of the 19th Knesset. Has a certain ring to it.
felipe (40f0f0) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:28 amI didn’t believe the 19, myself. Didn’t they have double that in years past?
nk (dbc370) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:30 amOk, wack***pedia says 20. Sigh.
nk (dbc370) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:34 amHonestly note the LU link, no copts were there, in a Christian assembly, and among the major players is Hezbollah’s main supporter in Nigeria, and friends of Bashir,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:41 amYes, Likud had:
38 seats in 2003
12 seats in 2006
27 seats in 2009
19 today.
Those are some crazy swings.
felipe (40f0f0) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:47 amI’ll take Knesset’s numbers over Wikis numbers any day. you were right nk.
felipe (40f0f0) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:49 amHere is a comment I agree with from the LU link:
“Agreed, BigAlSouth, but I don’t think it was an “error” for Cruz to attend and issue his rebuke.
His appearance at this event, with the ensuing verbal exchange, plugged the IDC effort with a bullet. IDC will have no further credibility with Republicans in Congress or the huge number of Americans who want to protect Christians AND who see both Iran and ISIS for what they are, after this event.
That’s an outstanding result. Excellent day’s work”. – J.e. Dyer
felipe (40f0f0) — 9/14/2014 @ 10:56 amwell the second largest faction is Tommy Lapid’s Yesh Atid, the third is Naftali Bennett’s
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/14/2014 @ 11:07 am“felipe, I’m not sure that starting a speech to Arabs, even Christian Arabs, with a call to support Israel is the most politic thing to do.”
nk – When a bunch of the Arab Christians are pro-Hezbollah and given that Israel is the only country in the Middle East where Christianity is expanding it does not bother me one bit.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2014 @ 11:19 amIt should be noted that Likud won on a joint ticket with Yisrael Beitenu. Together they have 31 seats. Yesh Atid has 19 seats, Israel Labor party has 15 seats.
felipe (40f0f0) — 9/14/2014 @ 11:20 amNancy Pelosi: If Yesh Atid and the I.L.P. were to form a joint ticket and win 34 seats in the Knesset, all civilization as we know it would end!
felipe (40f0f0) — 9/14/2014 @ 11:24 amjust goes to show that teh Middle East, in general, can’t even do Christianity well and without H8.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/14/2014 @ 11:25 amprobably the dog trainer would do worse:
http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2014/09/14/paths-to-war-then-and-now-haunt-obama/
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/14/2014 @ 11:30 amhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJxCNMGN17g&sns=em
Sent from my iPad
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/14/2014 @ 11:36 amHere is another thing indicating the diseased political culture in the Middle East:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/185089#!
According to this report, an attacking satire aimed at ISIS has to throw in a little bit of anti-Semitism.
Sammy Finkelman (31cdef) — 9/14/2014 @ 1:38 pmJD @15, since Perry does exist, since we don’t have to go to the trouble of making him up, we have the opportunity to use him.
Leftists like Perry reserve their rabid, mindless hate for people who don’t conform to their religion in which government is god and the political left is his messenger. You will note that leftists and the Islamists both burn with the greatest hatred for what IS calls the “nearer enemy.” Whoever dwells within the land over which they claim absolute authority, but questions the legitimacy of that claim to absolute authority and defies the decrees of their respective Caliphate.
http://quran.com/5/33
daley @27 explained the basis for the leftist/Muslim alliance more succinctly than I have. But suffice it to say that they have the same attitudes to toward what is or is not Sharia, god’s law, and those who defy or blaspheme god’s law. And the interpreters of god’s law; god’s messenger.
When leftists arrogantly decree that Obamacare is “the law of the land,” what they mean is that it’s Sharia. When critics point out that it’s constantly being modified and ignored by Obama, essentially they’re “waging war against his messenger.” The religious authorities of Islam/leftism have the right to apply sharia to each situation as they see fit. Islam means submission. A Muslim is one who submits. It is your duty to submit without questioning the authorities, with no reservations whatsoever.
For the believers, dissent is their highest duty when the people of god are out of power. When the people of god are in power dissent is blasphemy.
Hence the Senate Democrat’s recent attempt to abolish the first Amendment. Hence this administration’s willingness to work with the Organization of Islamic Cooperation to make blasphemy an international crime. The OIC had been working on that project for years with no success until this administration was installed. Then Hillary! signed the resolution.
http://www.state.gov/secretary/20092013clinton/rm/2011/07/168636.htm
It’s important to note that as far as the community of believers is concerned, that which constitutes “incitement to violence” is as broad a term as what constitutes “corruption.” For instance, to the believers the Citizen’s United decision is the very essence of corruption. Because it allows the unfaithful to question sacred authority. Hence the community of believers attempted to amend the Constitution to outlaw corruption. That was just as much an anti-blasphemy law as UN resolution 16/18. The promoters of both of these wide ranging, all encompassing anti-blasphemy laws all pretend that neither of these laws restrict free speech. Left unsaid is that “free speech” is still permitted but only subject to what the religious authorities consider legitimate free speech.
One wages war against god, his messenger, and spreads corruption as much with thoughts and words as by any other means. Therefore blasphemous thoughts and words also constitute incitement to violence and are not legitimate free speech. Promoting unbelief in god and his messenger and the holy law is axiomatically an incitement to violence.
Hence the natural affinity for one community of believers for another. Hence the unbridled, rabid hatred for the nearer enemy. Which as a member of the leftist ummah in good standing, Perry, helpfully illustrates.
Steve57 (c413c6) — 9/14/2014 @ 2:27 pmMuch as with this statement,
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/13/term-islamic-state-slur-faith-david-cameron
when you see who are the signatories, you must conclude they are being disingenuous at best,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/14/2014 @ 2:38 pmWell Reasoned, Steve57.
askeptic (efcf22) — 9/14/2014 @ 2:40 pmjust one example here;
http://standforpeace.org.uk/living-islam-festival-tainted-by-islamist-speakers/
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/14/2014 @ 2:45 pmI thought I’d highlight this portion of Hillary!’s remarks at the OIC meeting in 2011.
It’s important to note that Islam did after a fashion protect the rights of certain people to worship as they chose. The “people of the book” could continue to practice their liturgies as long as they did so out of sight and didn’t annoy the Ummah. But they didn’t have the right to live their beliefs. The dhimmis have to submit to the authority of one true faith. And that includes refraining by word and deed from defaming or undermining the authority of god’s government.
Such as drawing a Muhammad cartoon or refusing to buy birth control and abortifacients.
And talk about “old-fashioned techniques of peer pressure and shaming,” the Muslims were passed masters at it centuries before Alinsky wrote his “Rules for Radicals” and Hillary! became his disciple. Because unlike other types of second-class citizenship, i.e. being a woman or a slave, dhimmitude was entirely voluntary. A man who was a dhimmi could remove all the disabilities the one true faith place upon him, as well as escape all the humiliating laws designed to publicly “shame” him “so that people don’t feel that they have the support to do what we abhor” simply by converting to the one true faith.
As the Quran puts it:
http://quran.com/9
And as Chuck Schumer put it:
http://townhall.com/columnists/charlottehays/2014/07/18/schumer-you-dont-have-to-convert-but-you-might-not-be-able-to-do-business-either-n1863492
You can be a Christian but as long as you are you must accept the fact you are a second class citizen. Only if you convert from your primitive cult that is a mere relic of al-Jahiliyah, the state of ignorance that existed before the one true faith, will you be allowed full citizenship.
Steve57 (c413c6) — 9/14/2014 @ 3:06 pmnarcisso @95, a textbook example of taqiyya in action.
http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/56
It is important to note that one of the OIC’s rules for “interfaith dialogue” is that religion is what the adherents of a religion say it is. So, for instance in this case, the practitioners of Taqiyya in Britain say the Islamic State is not Islamic. A good dhimmi submits to that decree without any reservations. After all, that is one of the provisions of the Pact of Umar. Which established the rules dhimmis must live by if they wish to be tolerated by Muslims.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.asp
(The italicized provisions are part of the “old-fashioned techniques of peer pressure and shaming” so beloved of Hillary! to be used against those unwilling to convert to the one true faith)
The dhimmis are not allowed to learn the Quran because they must submit to the religious authorities and what they decree to be true or false when it comes to Islam.
David Cameron is a good dhimmi. He will comply with the Muslim Brotherhood front groups in Britain, just as Obama has put Muslim Brotherhood front groups and unindicted co-conspirators in the Holy Land Foundation terror funding trial in charge of policing “Islamophobia.”
That is, attacking bad dhimmis such as myself who dare to ignore the front groups and actually look to their holy texts. In the course of which I discover that the Islamic State is Islamic in every atom of its existence.
Of course it’s not brain rocketry. Anybody can do it. I’ve supplied all the links I use to refer to authentic Islamic sources. If you like you can buy books from Amazon that are certified by the highest authorities in Islam such as Al-Azhar university as true and correct transliterations of Islamic holy texts. But there’s no point as they don’t say anything at odds with the sites constructed by and for Muslims.
Whatever you do, avoid the propaganda put out by the practitioners of Taqiyya, such as CAIR, the Muslim Student Association and it’s subsidiaries on campuses across the nation (and across Britain it must be noted; while the British practioners of Taqiyya tell the non-Muslims one thing, the same religious authorities are telling Muslims in Britain another), etc.
I am a bad dhimmi in all regards. Hence the hate. See Perry @8 for an example of the hatred for those who do not submit to the one true faith.
Steve57 (c413c6) — 9/14/2014 @ 4:02 pmhttp://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/56
And of course, Muslims are always at war with the unbelievers. This is why they divide the world into Dar al Islam, the house of Islam where Islam reigns supreme, and Dar al Harb, the house of war where Islam does not yet rule (making me as a committed infidel residing in Dar al Harb a harbi; collectively we are harbis).
Of course, not even Muslims may be privy to this. On a different thread I mentioned Quran-only reformers of Islam. There are sincere Quran-only Muslims who believe that the Quran is the authoritative text that constitutes divine revelation and therefor is the only text Muslims should live by. And they have something of a good case, since the Quran itself has many verses that proclaim itself to be clear and complete, having explained all things in detail.
But in general the Quran-only types are actually practicing taqiyya because the Quran does not explain everything in detail. It certainly isn’t clear, nor is it complete. You will not know anything about how to be a Muslim without the Sunnah as well. Read the Quran. The Shahada is not in there, it’s only in the Sunnah. So the profession of faith that is required to become a Muslim, the most basic step, isn’t in the Quran. Neither will you learn how to pray, how many times a day to pray, the Qiblaa (direction in which you are to pray) how to perform the ablutions that are required before you are ritually prepared to play, etc. Some goes for Zakat, fasting, or the Hajj.
In other words, what are generally accepted as the “five pillars of Islam” (the pretense that there are only five is another example of taqiyaa) are either not in the Quran at all or exist only as a command to perform them. But there is no instruction as to how to perform them. For that you must refer to the Sunnah.
This is why Muslims consider anyone who calls himself a Muslim but who actually believes in the Quran-only doctrine doctrine to be a hypocrite or an apostate. And the Islamic State is carrying out the prescribed punishment for hypocrites and apostates when it beheads and crucifies them. As is Saudi Arabia when it does the same.
I’ve provided many simple examples by citing chapter and verse of the Quran which commands Muslims to submit to the judgement of Muhammad in all things, without any outward or inner reservations. Muslims are commanded to do so, but how would they know what those judgements are without the Sunnah and Sharia? They can’t. There is no such thing as Quran-only Islam. Which is why it exists only in the west as taqiyya. Some Muslims have been deceived by this practice as well, which is fine with the religious authorities as it gives them cover. They can be corrected later.
The point being is that traditionally there are three stages in the perpetual war between the harbis and the Muslims.
1. Stealth Jihad.
In this stage Muslims verbally provoke the harbis they live among. When the harbis react the Muslims claim to be victims of unprovoked attacks. This is why Muslims and their submissive dhimmis in government decry the “backlash” against Muslims more than the act that would prompt that backlash. Which never seems to materialize. No matter, the important point is pound home the lesson that Muslims are always the innocent victims while the dominant culture is evil, aggressive, and oppressive. What now falls under the reality-defying umbrella of “Islamophobia” is simply the recipe Muhammad used when he was outnumbered and out of power during the Meccan period.
2. Defensive jihad.
This was the initial stage of Muhammad’s armed jihad when he fled the “oppression” of the Meccans and took refuge in Madinah. Of course, the Meccans were perfectly fine to leave Muhammad and his small (very small) band of followers alone. There were something like 360 deities already in Mecca. They didn’t mind one more. Muhammad, on the other hand, was the one who decided there was only room for his god, not the other 360. And he and his followers acted accordingly, and P.O.d the Meccans. When they simply criticized Muhammad, he claimed to be a victim of “oppression.” Remember, it is with thoughts and words that you wage war against allah and his prophet as much as by deed.
But Muhammad didn’t have the military strength to actually attack Mecca, so he waged what he called “defensive jihad,” which included some pretty damned offensive actions. Think what we now call terrorism. And think how the leftist Muslims in the west excuse the Islamic Muslims such as Hamas for engaging in terrorism against Israel, because of course (they claim) that’s the only way the poor oppressed Muslims can resist the “illegal occupation.”
You’ll get the drift.
3. Offensive jihad.
As commanded by the Quran.
The Muslims can negotiate a hudnah when they can’t complete the conquest. But when they’re in a position of strength and complete the conquest then they must do so. This is what Muhammad did at the the end of his Madinah period. And all Muslims must follow his example.
As the Islamic State is following his example.
But we really need to add a stage of jihad to the traditional three stages. Stage zero. The stage of cluelessness. Muslims have to keep the harbis in the dark as long as possible that they are in fact waging jihad against them. David Cameron, I am convinced, has really been sucked into this. So, too, have many western Muslims. Which is fine with the stealth jihadists of Islamic Society of Britain (and CAIR, and ISNA, and the MSA, etc.).
It is of course entirely possible for Muslims to wage jihad at different stages across the globe depending on varying local conditions, and even for Muslims to be at different stages of jihad at the same place depending on factors such local conditions but also individual commitment and knowledge. The less committed and less knowledgeable Muslims serve Islam when they, too, are taken in by the deception. If they knew the truth, they might queer the deal by spilling the beans prematurely.
The hypocrites and apostates can be dealt with later, when they’re offered the same deal as the Yazidis. Become a true Muslim or die.
Steve57 (c413c6) — 9/14/2014 @ 5:01 pmAt least they give us a choice, which is more than I would do for them:
askeptic (efcf22) — 9/14/2014 @ 5:20 pmBecome a true Muslim by dying!
honesty is appreciated:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/09/jordanian-palestinian-politician-there-is-no-isis-ideology-its-islam-video/
but herein lies the rub, if it so, how does one prevent adherents to it,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/14/2014 @ 5:28 pmHow does one prevent an outbreak of rabies when confronted by a rabid dog?
askeptic (efcf22) — 9/14/2014 @ 5:33 pmlots of ointment
happyfeet (a785d5) — 9/14/2014 @ 6:01 pmI was going to say WD-40.
Steve57 (c413c6) — 9/14/2014 @ 6:33 pmBZZZZ…..I’m sorry, you have selected a wrong answer.
askeptic (efcf22) — 9/14/2014 @ 6:33 pmaskeptic – Don’t let the rabid dog hump your leg, or if you do, fake an orgasm.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2014 @ 6:41 pm94. I concur.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 9/14/2014 @ 6:41 pmSaying you’re Christian in the ME is like saying I’m not Muslim, my parents are not Muslim and I don’t live on that side of town.
Saying you’re Xian in Amerikkka is like an empty canvass, who knows what it means.
gary gulrud (46ca75) — 9/14/2014 @ 7:24 pmhttp://www.seraphicpress.com/ebola-virus-of-peace/
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