Patterico's Pontifications

8/27/2014

Mexico’s President to United States: Stop Being Unethical!

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:28 pm

[guest post by Dana]

You know what’s worse than having the visiting president of a neighboring country whose people stream across our border as if they owned the place lecture us on the ethics of immigration? How about the imbecilic governor of a U.S. border state reassure said president: “If we can put a man on the moon, we can put a man from Mexico to California in 20 minutes.”

Mexico’s President Enrique Pena Nieto was in town at Governor Brown’s invitation and spoke about the assumed need for immigration reform:

“We want to be a factor of cohesion, not division, with full respect for the sovereignty of the United States,” President Enrique Pena Nieto said Monday. “This, at the end, is about — and only about — a matter of justice for those who contribute so much to the development of the American society.”

And, while not naming names, Pena Nieto criticized what ABC News refers to as those unethical governors cracked down on immigrants:

“There are still states that have not evolved so much as California, that still skimp on recognition and, even worse, the rights of immigrants,” he said. “Those who still believe and bet for the exclusion and discrimination or the rejection of diversity … I only have one thing to say: the future, and a very near future, will demonstrate your ethical mistake. Time will show we’re right.”

It becomes so tiresome to point out the utter hypocrisy of Mexico.

–Dana

70 Responses to “Mexico’s President to United States: Stop Being Unethical!”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  2. Hi.

    ethical

    He keeps using that word, but I don’t think he knows what it means.

    carol (48f0d1)

  3. Jerry Brown is too much of a simp and too deeply involved in playing a very cautious reelection game, but shame on him for sitting there and letting this blowhard spew his garbage without remind him that the lowest-income citizens of America bear a disproportionate burden that comes from illegal immigration. But here in California the smart Democrat panders to the rich liberals because they know the vote of poor blacks and Latino citizens is already nicely locked up.

    JVW (638245)

  4. President wetback is lucky we gave half of that country back.

    mg (31009b)

  5. Governor Grandpa Simpson-Brown has his head up his ass as usual. SCOTUS has already ruled that states can’t follow their own immigration policy. Mexico’s presidente should focus on stopping the exodus of his people and the murders of young females who have died by the hundreds in Juarez alone. Hijo de la Chingada.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  6. Hilarious when liberals like Mexico’s president talk about ethics.

    That reminds me of Obama promising back in 2008 that he’d have the most transparent administration in US history, while Bill Clinton had the audacity back in 1992 to claim his presidency would be the most ethical in history.

    Snerk.

    A recent poll showed that around 30% of Mexico’s population would move to the US if they could, while I doubt a similarly large percentage of Americans would want to move to Mexico. However, given current political and demographic trends, the US is becoming more and more like a Mexico, so if Americans won’t go to Mexico, Mexico will come to them.

    And then when the US ends up as second-rate as Mexico is, will Mexicans still be clamoring to move to the US?

    Lucky us.

    Mark (14a4db)

  7. the future, and a very near future, will demonstrate your ethical mistake

    this is a man who’s been reading the memos

    he knows the score

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  8. He knows caca, feet.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  9. really?

    my take is he knows that sweet sweet amnesties are in the cards

    and that he knows the plan is to turn hispanics into a pivotal voting block what will ensure the enduring neo-fascist transformation of america

    that’s what it sounds like to me anyways

    i got my sprite i got my orange crush

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  10. a man who has no ethics lectures the US about ethics. You think he knows “the score”? He doesn’t know what time it is.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  11. he knows the clock is ticking on this whole US of A thing

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  12. Ethical is a loss in translation. It’s the same as saying that you are on the wrong side of history, loosely translated…. I did not see the speech, however I am a journalist (American) in Mexico and it’s our experience that the president speaks very little English. The quotes given seem to be more English than we are led to believe he speaks based on some things he has said in English with the Mexican media. Are these HIS words or is there a translator as a third party? That is very important to clarify.

    Ian (3fa6e3)

  13. Mexico is a nice place in which to vomit, after becoming snot-slinging drunk.

    No, really. You can hardly tell anything has changed when you are done.

    So thank you Mr. Enrique Pena Nieto for offering your puke worthy comments about the ethics of immigration policy.

    Steve57 (99bd31)

  14. Mexico is a magical place of wonder/poverty I love it so much

    here’s
    one of my bucket list places in mexico

    in mexico, there you can be free

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  15. Now, this is a sure-fire way to sell that bullet train. Moonbeam Express, indeed.

    Kevin M (b357ee)

  16. Why the US does not demand some reciprocity on immigration, property ownership, equality before the law, etc, from Mexico in return for letting some of these scofflaws to stay is beyond me. Also, Baja would be nice.

    Kevin M (b357ee)

  17. Reciprocity should be the cornerstone of our economic, cultural, and social relations with all countries:
    We treat you in these matters as you treat us – no better, no worse.
    With Mexico, we should close the Ports of Entry for at least a year, then evaluate.
    Anyone caught sneaking in will be considered an unlawful combatant entitled to a free trip to GTMO.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  18. Mexico sent Fidel back to Cuba in ’56, they hosted every guerillas, from the FMLM to the Guatemalas, for decades, one of their intelligence honchos, Nazar, were in partnership with the predecessors to the Sinaloa cartel, in the late 70s and 80, they return every Cuban emigrant, as with everyone from Guatemalan to Venezuela,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  19. I lived in and around the San Diego area for nearly 30 years before moving to Florida in 2007. The poor will suffer the most with this nonsensical policy. The illegals bankrupted hospitals and emergency services throughout. If they get in an accident or arrested they just flee back to Mexico at their earliest convenience. Goodbye California, hello third-world $h!th0l3.

    hadoop (f7d5ba)

  20. Hey Nieto, how about doing something regarding stolen cars. The article is from 2001, so the problem has probably quadrupled. This is the thanks that Californians get for their kindness.

    hadoop (f7d5ba)

  21. Closing a border is hard. Look at the history of the most closed border in the world, East Germany. People still made it across, with machine gun nests, mines, barbed wire, dogs and god knows what else Communist ingenuity could torture out of captured Nazi technology.

    Obviously, the US needs to view these people as refugees from failed states. I think the US should definitely take a much firmer hand in dealing with the nations these people are fleeing. It’s obvious those nations need a change in leadership to better empower their citizens to improve their lives.

    Xmas (f65ded)

  22. Let’s talk about the ethics of continuing to hold Sergeant Andrew Tahmooressi after it was revealed the Mexican border guards failed to report the Sergeant voluntarily acknowledged he had guns in his vehicle, explained he made a wrong turn, and fully cooperated with authorities, but was arrested on gun smuggling charges anyway. Further, it was revealed in court the border guards backdated paperwork to frame him for a crime he didn’t commit.

    So, how about it Mr President, you up for some straight talk about the ethics of holding a an innocent man on trumped up charges?

    ropelight (cdcdbf)

  23. It’s obvious those nations need a change in leadership to better empower their citizens to improve their lives.

    You make it sound as though the average citizen of a country particularly like Mexico is somehow blameless for the type of politician and policymaking that dominates the society. You’d have a point if most people in such places were ideologically sensible and moderate. But they’re not.

    The voting patterns in Mexico, as one example, are similar to the patterns in true-blue, blue-blue, liberal-berserk urban America. So if the politicians and the system they enable in such settings are crummy, they’re merely a reflection of the populace.

    Mark (14a4db)

  24. Look at the history of the most closed border in the world, East Germany. People still made it across, with machine gun nests, mines, barbed wire, dogs and god knows what else Communist ingenuity could torture out of captured Nazi technology.

    People did still make it across. About a thousand. Not 20 million.

    Obviously, the US needs to view these people as refugees from failed states.

    “Obviously” my ass. They are not refugees, they are uninvited, unneeded, undesired, unhealthy invaders. I only hope that when the bombs of the terrorists who cross with the “refugees” go of they kill only the supporters of this foolish exercise in national suicide.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  25. You called it Mark. These socialists down there elect socialists whose failed leftist policies make life a living hell then they want to come up here and bring their leftist clap trap to America. Their supporters, like Xmas, only want to broaden the welfare state and create more Democrats even as they deliberately murder our country.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  26. Their supporters, like Xmas, only want to broaden the welfare state and create more Democrats even as they deliberately murder our country.

    Eventually, Xmas will reap the whirlwind. No one will escape the eventual result of unregulated illegal immigration—not even the wealthy. They kid themselves that their gated communities protect them from the problem, but it’s only a matter of time.

    hadoop (f7d5ba)

  27. I wonder also hadoop, do they ever think about what they’re doing to their children’s and grandchildren’s future. Or are these left-over hippies so self centered they only care about themselves and the rest be damned? It’s their kids who will have to support these invaders with food, shelter, education, tons of medical, yet they don’t care.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  28. I wonder also hadoop, do they ever think about what they’re doing to their children’s and grandchildren’s future. Or are these left-over hippies so self centered they only care about themselves and the rest be damned? It’s their kids who will have to support these invaders with food, shelter, education, tons of medical, yet they don’t care.

    Just wait til the Fed raises interest rates—it’s going to happen. This unlimited credit card economy will fold like a cheap lawn chair. Hell, we’re going for $18 trillion dollars in debt. Eventually, we won’t be able to pay the interest on the principle. Then what?

    hadoop (f7d5ba)

  29. Many of the wealthy in Mexico have learned the hard way it’s best to avoid the outward appearance of wealth on the home front. Keeping a low profile allows them to evade the wrath of the many who have little yet are still required to pay heavy taxes, and who live within striking distance. The post colonial history of Mexico is a series of revolutions largely fought over the issues of access to land and along lines of race and class.

    Rich Mexicans come to the US or Europe where they can freely flaunt their wealth and privilege among the civilized and egalitarian Western democracies.

    ropelight (cdcdbf)

  30. Who says I’m a supporter. I’m arguing for stronger US interdiction in the failed governments south of our border. We need to smash these corrupt regimes and put people in charge we can trust to run a country that won’t send millions of people to our border.

    The U.S Territories of Guadalupe, Baja and Yucatan sounds much better than “Mexico”.

    Either these people are refugees or they’re invaders. Either option requires a strong geopolitical and perhaps military response.

    Xmas (f65ded)

  31. keep mexicans south
    mexico must solve problems
    and resist we much

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  32. Who says I’m a supporter. I’m arguing for stronger US interdiction in the failed governments south of our border. We need to smash these corrupt regimes and put people in charge we can trust to run a country that won’t send millions of people to our border.

    The U.S Territories of Guadalupe, Baja and Yucatan sounds much better than “Mexico”.

    Either these people are refugees or they’re invaders. Either option requires a strong geopolitical and perhaps military response.

    Good luck with any of that. Reagan tried that in the eighties. I don’t think the country will get behind anything like that. And Congress? The only thing you can count on Congress to do is to campaign on keeping their jobs.

    hadoop (f7d5ba)

  33. Either option requires a strong geopolitical and perhaps military response.

    From my experience “geopolitical” is an ambiguous term usually used by leftists to pry money from the American taxpayer to be spent on and by someone else. I won’t fall for that crap again. And a military response? Really? You want to attack Central America? That’s absolutely brilliant! You’re a regular Sun Tzu. Moslems all over the globe want to kill us and you want to direct our resources toward Honduras. Pure genius!

    So instead of building a border wall, patrolling it and enforcing our immigration policy we should go to war and kill a whole bunch of people and loose a whole bunch of Americans? Are you on drugs? Isn’t it cheaper in both blood and treasure just to enforce a reasonable immigration policy? Or is the sovereignty of the United States, the protection of her people and culture, the continuation of her traditions, the soundness of our economy and a stable direction for our future no longer important?

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  34. JVW (638245) — 8/27/2014 @ 6:45 pm

    the lowest-income citizens of America bear a disproportionate burden that comes from illegal immigration.

    According to whose economic theory?

    Sammy Finkelman (7d0d47)

  35. Unilateral intervention, Yankee Hegemony, Manifest Destiny, the Monroe Doctrine on steroids: Here’s a bundle of switches. Have yourself a Merry little Christmas.

    ropelight (cdcdbf)

  36. meanwhile on another border:

    http://minx.cc:1080/?post=351429

    narciso (ee1f88)

  37. Hoagie,

    The point of my first post was that even if you completely militarized the border, you will not stop the flow of illegals. Just putting up a wall is going to do nothing.

    We need to intervene at the source. Put pressure on the foreign governments from where these immigrants are coming.

    Heck, as a private citizen you could take a page from the left and start organizing BDS movements against Mexico and Mexican companies. You could do the same for industries that don’t take background checks for employees seriously.

    But saying enforce the laws we currently have is not an effective strategy. I’d say current law enforcement is maybe 5% effective. Tripling our enforcement budget will maybe get you over 10%. You could maybe get to 90% with some sort of North Korean style secret police, minefields, flamethrowers, and razorwire. I don’t see a strong Juche movement growing in the United States, so I expect that is not an option.

    Xmas (b87b59)

  38. Xmas, I do not understand what you mean by “put pressure on the foreign governments from where these [illegal] immigrants are coming”. What kind of pressure do you mean? These illegals are coming from Belize, Guatemala, Costa Rica and Honduras. They all have to pass through Mexico to get here. Mexico won’t let them stop and stay there. So it is therefore apparent that Mexico has a policy of ushering these people into our country. They aren’t sending them back, Mexico is passing them forward. And with them a great number of Mexicans, and I’m sure some criminals, drug dealers, human traffickers, terrorists and who knows what else. Women and children are being raped, abused and even murdered and those among us in America, like Moonbeam Brown, who encourages these illegals to try and get here are directly responsible for these atrocities.

    If we let them know in no uncertain terms that if they try to enter they will fail and if perchance they do make it they will immediately be sent back without mercy, then they will stop coming, dying and being raped and abused.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  39. This article is from 2005, but it’s an interesting read: Mexico’s Undiplomatic Diplomats.

    AZ_Langer (a65cb5)

  40. Hoagie (4dfb34) — 8/28/2014 @ 12:24 pm

    They aren’t sending them back, Mexico is passing them forward.

    Not any more.

    If we let them know in no uncertain terms that if they try to enter they will fail and if perchance they do make it they will immediately be sent back without mercy,

    From Mexico. That’s illegal to do in the United States, but the Obama Administration has put all these cases at the head of the line, and gotten lots of complainst from legal organizations.

    In the meantime the ACLU just semi-settled a lawsuit – 9 Mexicans who agreed to “voluntary deportation” will be allowed to return and contest theior deportation. The government was accsed of not warning them about the consequences to future admission to the United States, or of the possibility they had of winning a case. The ACLY claims tends of thousands of people could be affected in the future if this is extended , but the Administration claims really very few would (apparently it would only apply to people with good cases)

    But this surely could apply to many children sent back, if they agreed to go without going through the deportation system.

    then they will stop coming, dying and being raped and abused.

    Sammy Finkelman (7d0d47)

  41. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/us/9-mexicans-can-return-to-contest-deportations.html?_r=0

    LOS ANGELES — Nine Mexican immigrants who agreed to be deported from the United States during the last five years will be allowed to return to fight their expulsions under an agreement announced Wednesday that could also include other Mexicans who consented to leave….

    …Although the case involved only nine immigrants deported from San Diego and Los Angeles, it could apply to many more if a judge approves a section of the agreement that would extend it to all Mexicans who left from Southern California by voluntary departure after June 2009 and who would have had viable claims in immigration courts.

    The two sides gave different estimates of how many people would be affected. The A.C.L.U. said “potentially hundreds or thousands” of deportees might qualify. An immigration official said that about 30,000 foreigners left in voluntary departures during the time period, but that only “a very small fraction” would qualify to return.

    The federal judge who will decide, John A. Kronstadt of the Central District of California, is not expected to rule until next year. As part of the already agreed changes, immigration and border agencies will set up a telephone hotline with information for people considering voluntary departure and will provide lists of lawyers and times to consult them as well as better access for lawyers to meet with those who are detained…

    …Lawyers for the group said the settlement was a rare instance when significant numbers of people who have been deported can come back. They will not be given any new legal status, but will be able to take up their cases where they stood before deportation. A law firm, Cooley LLP in San Diego, also worked on the case.

    Sammy Finkelman (7d0d47)

  42. The question I have is how was Ivan Demanjuk, who really probably was “Ivan to Terrible” (his acquittal was based upin the fact that at Treblinka there was only an Ivan Marchenko, like as if he would have no reason to lie to the Nazis about his name) allowed to return after having not been found guilty in Israel. The Clinton Administration brought him back.

    He was eventually extradited to Germany, which put him on trial for being a guard at Sobibor, where he worked under his real name)

    Sammy Finkelman (7d0d47)

  43. comment re: Hoagie @39 corrected

    Mexico won’t let them stop and stay there. So it is therefore apparent that Mexico has a policy of ushering these people into our country.

    Not any more.

    then they will stop coming, dying and being raped and abused.

    No, they are or weer dying in their home countries. The Obama Administration’s pressure on Miexico has now caused more of them to die along the way.

    Sammy Finkelman (7d0d47)

  44. Sammy, Hoagie’s words are words of iron, yours are words of jelly and feathers.

    ropelight (a043cf)

  45. fleas on yer dog… fleas on yer dog… fleas on yer dog, frostperro on yo’ sleezey dad, ropelight.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  46. apologies to Jose Feliciano

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  47. Sammy I have no idea what you’re talking about. Are you saying that Mexico will let them stay in Mexico now and have stopped aiding them into the United States? Show me!

    No, they are or weer dying in their home countries.

    What the hell does that mean? Doesn’t everybody die in their home countries?

    The Obama Administration’s pressure on Miexico has now caused more of them to die along the way.

    What has the Obama administration done to pressure Mexico which would “cause” anyone to die along the way? Name one single policy. The Obama administration is missing in action on illegal immigration and has been for years. Now, Gov. Moonbeam telling illegals to “come on in” will get a lot of kids and women killed and raped. That’s Moonbeams policy.

    Common’ Sammy, you can do better than this nonsense.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  48. Colonel Haiku, what the hell does that mean in #46? Are you guys all talking another language or are you all out at the same bar together? Cause I can’t understand a sentence.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  49. merry christmas Mr. Hoagie

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  50. “But saying enforce the laws we currently have is not an effective strategy. I’d say current law enforcement is maybe 5% effective.”

    Xmas – Here’s an alternative perspective from Byron York:

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/no-our-immigration-system-is-not-broken/article/2552534

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  51. Hoagie (4dfb34) — 8/28/2014 @ 2:03 pm

    Are you saying that Mexico will let them stay in Mexico now and have stopped aiding them into the United States?

    Neither. Mexico is sending them back to onduras, El Salvador and Guatemala. immediately and without mercy, because of pressure from the Obama Administration.

    Show me!

    http://www.reuters.com/video/2014/08/28/new-measures-slow-child-migrant-flow-int?videoId=341685792&videoChannel=1&channelName=Top+News

    After several weeks of new measures enacted to reduce the flow of Central American migrants to the U.S., insiders in Mexico and Guatemala say they are beginning to see results. Jillian Kitchener reports.

    ▶ View Transcript

    … (SOUNDBITE) (Spanish) MANAGER OF MIGRANT SHELTER IN ARRIAGA, CHIAPAS, CARLOS SOLIS, SAYING: “What we are seeing is a decrease in the flow (of migrants). This is because of the campaign being run by the United States and some countries in Central America where they have used slots on television and radio to discourage children from migrating to the United States.” …and for some like Javier Soto…it’s just too difficult. (SOUNDBITE) (Spanish) MIGRANT FROM HONDURAS, JAVIER SOTO, SAYING: “Surveillance by (Mexican) immigration has risen and they have stopped letting us board the train (“The Beast”) which is another (reason). Nobody can board the train which is presumably due to a (Mexican) government law.” …

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/world/americas/hope-dwindles-for-hondurans-living-in-peril.html

    On her bookshelf, she keeps three pebbles, painted ME-XI-CO with nail polish: a wry souvenir of the journey she took with her 13-year-old son, hopscotching on buses through Honduras, Guatemala and Mexico until they were finally caught there and sent home in June. She had hoped to reach a sister’s home in Houston. She did not make it, despite paying $6,000 to a smuggler, who has disappeared.

    “There was a fever here; everybody thought they were going to get documents,” said the woman, Marta Triminio Guerrero, 44. “Now, we are all coming back, but to what?”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/21/world/americas/trying-to-slow-the-illegal-flow-of-young-migrants-at-the-border-reports-show-decline-in-texas.html

    AN PEDRO SULA, Honduras — The wave of Central American child migrants heading to the United States in recent months, feeding a humanitarian crisis there, is showing some signs of abating.

    Bus operators here say they are noticing a decline in the number of unaccompanied children headed to the border. The police have detained fewer young migrants at checkpoints. And the United States Border Patrol has reported a dip in the number of children and families apprehended in Texas, where migrants have been arriving in droves for months….

    …Honduras, the source of the largest proportion of recent child migrants, has moved to make it harder for children to leave the country without authorization. It has forbidden the sale to minors of bus tickets to the border and assigned additional police officers, including a specially trained unit, to patrol bus routes and frequent border crossing points….

    …Last week, the Border Patrol station in McAllen, Tex., reported decreasing numbers of people in detention. About 500 migrants were being held last week, compared with double that number most days in June….

    .. “I will never do it again,” said Victoria Córdova, 30, who was deported from the United States last week with her 9-year-old daughter. She recalled a harrowing journey that included overcrowded shelters in the United States with little to eat and a confusing stream of paperwork to sign, including a document in English that she did not understand but signed anyway.

    After signing the paper in a shelter in New Mexico, she said, she and several other women with children were told they would be boarding a plane back to Honduras, leading many of them to break down into tears.

    Ms. Córdova has since returned to her home in a dangerous neighborhood in Tegucigalpa. She worries most now about repaying the $6,000 cost for the trip that she borrowed from neighbors, including gang members expecting quick repayment, though she is unemployed….

    …“I wanted to be with my dad, but the trip is too long and hard,” said Aidan, 13, who left a shelter here with his grandparents after he was deported from Mexico last week. ….

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/26/us/politics/obama-migrant-children.html

    Mr. Obama said the Central American presidents are “excellent partners,” and thanked them for their efforts to discourage children from making the dangerous journey to the United States. But he also urged them to do more to combat the smugglers who, for a price, are transporting the children.

    Sammy Finkelman (7d0d47)

  52. Also from the August 28, 2014 Reuters video story:

    Elvis Garay is a migrant from Nicaragua. (SOUNDBITE) (Spanish) MIGRANT FROM NICARAGUA, ELVIS GARAY, SAYING: “They (authorities) [that means the Mexican authorities - SF] are beginning the hunt for children, women and adults. I think that the most important, and why we are here, is for the children. They are nabbing the children as if they weren’t human beings with aggression and without a second thought. They (authorities) catch them (the child migrants) and then at some point they beat them.” But while it may be taking a toll. The US government says the number of unaccompanied children caught along the southwest border almost halved in July.

    SF: No, they are or were dying in their home countries.

    What the hell does that mean? Doesn’t everybody die in their home countries?

    Of unnatural causes. Some of the places where some of these people come from have about the hoghest murder rate in the world. It’s declined somewhat from the wasy it was a year ago – because peole left I suppose, and the gangs were actually klling people to encourage them to (pay them money) to leave..

    http://wamu.org/news/14/08/20/death_and_terror_await_many_deported_honduran_immigrants

    San Pedro Sula is the deadliest city in Honduras, a country that already has the highest per capita murder rate in the world. Many of the thousands of unaccompanied minors who have been detained for illegally crossing the U.S./Mexico border hail from this city’s violent barrios, or neighborhoods; they flee to escape poverty, retribution for not joining gangs or not paying extorters’ fees.

    “There are no opportunities here. They die, they leave for the United States or they become criminals,” says Dr. Hector Hernandez, the man in charge of the San Pedro Sula morgue. He says at least five youths, recently deported from the United States to Honduras, have been murdered during the past week in his city. “They range in ages from 12 to 18. They died as a result of gunshot wounds. After interviewing the relatives who came to claim the bodies, they told us the victims had recently returned from the United States. Some were deported by land at the border, others by air.”

    “We have been warning policy makers in the administration about exactly this,” says Sheena Wadhawan, an immigration attorney with CASA de Maryland….

    Of course don’t come from such a place.

    They go back there because they don’t know where to go.

    Some of them, you know, they’re very young.

    SF: The Obama Administration’s pressure on Miexico has now caused more of them to die along the way.

    What has the Obama administration done to pressure Mexico which would “cause” anyone to die along the way? Name one single policy.

    I’m not sure. It’s not like they’re shouting it from the rooftops, but something has changed in Mexico.

    http://res.dallasnews.com/interactives/migrants/

    I ask what has changed about the trip through Mexico. “Everything,” Anderson says. “It’s like crossing the United States, with so much security, technology and, worse, criminals hunting us down as though we’re animals.”

    The Obama Administration has made the journey more dangerous, and they’re using that fact to deter migrants.

    The Obama administration is missing in action on illegal immigration

    Not really.

    See, you don’t want to believe wehat’s actually happening.

    The Obama Administration may be shifting around from left to right – and maybe later back again.

    All the pressure within the United States is for people already here, or with close relatives here. People who never make it – it’s not such a big issue.

    and has been for years.

    For years their policy was border control – ONLY. Or MOSTLY. Not that it helped with Congress, or Republicans..

    Now, Gov. Moonbeam telling illegals to “come on in” will get a lot of kids and women killed and raped. That’s Moonbeams policy.

    Well, it all depends. Obviously all that california can do is not reject them.

    Governor Moonbeam can’t counteract what President Obama is causing Mexico to do – and you think he wants Mexico to crack down on the crininals preying on the migrants?

    Sammy Finkelman (7d0d47)

  53. “But saying enforce the laws we currently have is not an effective strategy. I’d say current law enforcement is maybe 5% effective.”

    Sammy Finkelman (7d0d47)

  54. That would be true if 95% of the people who contemplated coming to the United States cae successfully.

    I think its a lot less.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/03/22/a-revealing-map-of-who-wants-to-move-to-the-u-s/

    Gallup released some new data this week on migration, for which they asked people from 154 countries if they would like to migrate, and if so where to. The United States was by far the most popular destination; Gallup estimates that 138 million people would like to relocate there.

    How many actually did, legally or illegally?

    http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states

    Between 2011 and 2012, the foreign-born population increased by about 447,000, or 1.1 percent.

    This is net migrtion.

    Say over 30 years, this would be 13 million or so. They may not be the same people who would say they want to go to the United States, but it looks about 10% So it looks like about 90% successful.

    The people here illegally are about 11 million. This is not almost all foreign born here because foreign born goes back more than 30 years. Total is around 40 million. Again there is somethibg like about aa 90% success rate. What kind of contortions and expense do you want to go through to raise that 90% plus success rate to 92%, 93% even over 95%. It still won’t be 100%.

    Sammy Finkelman (7d0d47)

  55. Thank you for the links, Sammy. I had subliminally noticed the clamor about “the children” illegally crossing the border had died down but I attributed it to “other” news (like Ferguson) taking over the news cycle. Then I stand corrected, perhaps some good things are in the works as far as this heretofore overwhelming problem is concerned. I will explore your links at my leisure, thanks again as I had obviously not seen this info before.

    Now, as good as this news is I still believe to have any truly secure border we must have a physical barrier. It must be patrolled diligently and maintained continuously. Then, I believe many more Americans would be open to combing through the current illegals, separating the sick, criminal, undesirables etc. and keeping the rest on some sort of line toward citizenship. Then, in the future our immigration policy should be based on: You wanna come in? Okay, what can you do for us if we do that for you?

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  56. Sammy, we all realize there is no such thing as 100% perfect. That’s why we’re conservative and not leftists. But it has become extremely urgent that we get a handle on this immigration. There are all kinds of hostile terrorist organizations today just drooling to get in here and kill our families. We cannot afford lax borders (North or South) we must be diligent.

    If bombs start going off in our cities the roar of the people against those that were for open borders will be so loud and probably so bloody you don’t want to think about it.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  57. If the Examiner article is right, where the US is currently returning/expelling 700K per year, and the current estimates are between 11 to 20 million illegals, then my w.a.g. of 5% effective is close.

    I wouldn’t conflate the successful bureaucratic handling of people who follow the rules with the enforcement activities of removing those that don’t. As the Examiner article points out, a number of illegals are people that came here legally on a visa who have just stayed when their visas expired. They would be “successes” for our current system…until they weren’t.

    Xmas (f65ded)

  58. Jus’ fo’ you, hoagie… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMtuVP8Mj4o&sns=em

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  59. “I wouldn’t conflate the successful bureaucratic handling of people who follow the rules with the enforcement activities of removing those that don’t.”

    Xmas – The point of the article is that we have laws in place that we are deliberately choosing not to enforce which if enforced would go a long way to solving a number of illegal immigration issues and that the narrative that the system is broken is false. The system we have is just not utilized.

    Also, the idea that a fence or barrier will not stop all illegal immigration so we should not spend the money is just a red herring. Yes a small number of people made across the border between East Germany and West Germany, but obviously the East thought the barriers were worth it. The American population supports securing the border first. Washington, as it was in 2007, is out of touch.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  60. Allow me to ask just one question. If a fence and guards don’t work why is there a fence and guards around the White House?

    I can only guess that Obama thinks the security of his family is more important than the security of our families.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  61. You will soon be hearing from my lawyer, Sammy, for you’ve given me carpal tunnel syndrome and blisters from having to scroll thru your gratuitous, voluminous posts.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  62. 61. Hoagie (4dfb34) — 8/28/2014 @ 3:59 pm

    Allow me to ask just one question. If a fence and guards don’t work why is there a fence and guards around the White House?

    Fences, guards, and wwarning and shooting works.

    I can only guess that Obama thinks the security of his family is more important than the security of our families.

    It’s not exactly the same thing. And you know it.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  63. 58. Xmas (f65ded) — 8/28/2014 @ 3:39 pm

    If the Examiner article is right, where the US is currently returning/expelling 700K per year, and the current estimates are between 11 to 20 million illegals, then my w.a.g. of 5% effective is close.

    How many people are deterred? Does that count for nothing??

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  64. No Sammy, it’s not exactly the same thing. The first is a complete fence with armed guards and the second is…well not.

    There’s also gated communities with guards, walls around prisons with guards, the 38Th parallel with guards, the Berlin Wall with guards, the Iron curtain with guards and for the piece de resistance the Great Wall of China. Seems all through history and even in our own country when people believe they have a need to either keep someone in or keep someone out they build a wall. As the saying goes: good fences make good neighbors. I say let’s be good neighbors with Mexico.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  65. There seems to be this confusion between a house and a country or part of it.

    theer’s adifference.

    The Third amendment prohibits the quartering of troops in private houses, not their deployment outside of the capital.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  66. There’s no confusion. I included the 38th parallel, Iron Curtain, Berlin Wall and Wall of China, not just houses. But there is some confusion as to exactly what the 3rd Amendment and quartering of troops has to do with guarding our border.

    Any time throughout history when man wanted to protect something or defend against something he built walls. That’s what a castle is, a city within walls. Same with a fort. So unless the left in this country knows more than all the accumulated knowledge of mankind for 6 millennium, let’s start with the tried and true…A Wall. Then we can sort out all the other crap.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  67. How can Mexico’s President –given the STRICT immigration enforcement policies of his own country in regard to illegals coming across HIS southern border– tell us that OUR country is “unethical” for not “respecting the rights” of illegals (apparently to be given free food, shelter, medical care, education, clothing, driver’s licenses, plus good-paying jobs, plus, dammit “RESPECT!!”) when they violate our borders?

    Various incredulous profanities spring to my lips when I read this sort of garbage. In a moral and just country, he’d have been booed off the stage and pelted with rotten tomatoes for speaking thus. BUT here, now, the Progressive mindset is ascendent; so up is down, war is peace, and illegals have rights the rest of us don’t…

    A_Nonny_Mouse (f8f537)

  68. I’m not sure how much our current immigration laws and process deters illegal immigrants. I mean, there are about 11 million of them, at least on the low estimates.

    I’d say that not having a good program in place for guest workers/braceros is a problem. It’s hard to legally migrate here if you’re a low skilled or manual-labor worker. You could say that some portion of people are here illegally because seasonal jobs here pay better than full time jobs back home. Then again, some of those people left for back home when the economy ran into trouble.

    Related to that, you’ve got people that are here illegally because their husbands or wives or parents came here to work and decided to stay. So their families came along because there is no easy way to get back and forth across the border.

    Then you’ve got the people that are here illegally because they want to live here and there is no legal way for them to come here. Then you’ve got out and out criminals who have come here to commit some sort of crime above and beyond just coming here illegally. You could also jam somewhere between those two groups the Atzlan folks who believe the Southwest really belongs to Mexico. Then you’ve got actual refugees, people fleeing terrible conditions back home. And don’t forget the exploited children and women brought here for nefarious purposes.

    Assuming you just want to handle all those groups of people the same way, you’ll need to capture and process all of those people and then get them back to their home countries. At 11 million people, you’re about 4 times larger than the current US prison and parolee population. While you’re deporting, you’ll need to secure a 1000 mile long border which joins us to a country that seems to be encouraging this whole flood of bodies in the first place (I really think this Atzlan idea is popular with some of the Mexican political elite, like Wahhabism and Saudi Princes)

    And all that effort is moot if nothing is done to change the conditions back in the illegal immigrant’s home country that convinced them that being smuggled by a potentially murderous coyote through the desert was a good idea in the first place.

    I’m not saying these things cannot be done, I’m just saying the first and lowest cost step is slapping around these countries who’s people are coming here illegally. When 5% to 10% of your country’s population is illegally living in another country, you don’t have much of a diplomatic leg to stand on.

    Xmas (f65ded)

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