Patterico's Pontifications

7/18/2014

Caught Between A Brown Lawn And A Hard Place

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:32 am

[guest post by Dana]

Along with facing a massive crisis on its southern border, California is also in the throes of the what is being called the worst short-term (one- to three- years) drought on record.

As such, California’s State Water Resources Control Board decided to impose a maximum $500-a-day fine on residents for wasting water. The new rules begin August 1. The following can be subject to fines:

• Direct application of water to wash sidewalks and driveways.

• Landscape irrigation that causes runoff to streets and gutters.

• Washing a motor vehicle using a hose without a shut-off nozzle.

• Using drinkable water in a decorative fountain unless it recirculates the water.

Earlier this year, Governor Brown called for a voluntary 20% reduction in state water usage. Unfortunately, the goal was not met.

And to show just how severe it is, these are released estimates of record costs caused by this drought:

$2.2 billion in total statewide costs,

Loss of 17,100 farm jobs,

More groundwater pumping to make up for a 6.6 million acre-foot reduction in river water supplies,

Removal of at least 5 percent of irrigated farmland from production in Central and Southern California, including the Central Coast.

Untitled-2

Now, let me introduce you to Glendora, CA couple Laura Whitney-Korte and her husband Michael who are caught between a brown lawn or face fines if they don’t ‘green’ their grass within 60 days.

Like many Californians, Whitney-Korte and her husband have taken measures to save water, everyday things like only watering the lawn two times a week, turning off the shower while soaping up and turning off the faucet while brushing teeth. But the lawn, the brown lawn, that’s the problem. The city of Glendora is not happy about it, so they contacted Whitney-Korte and her husband:

[W]hat has she received for her water-saving efforts? A threatening letter from the city of Glendora’s code enforcement team saying that her brown lawn could be a “potential public nuisance problem” that may cost her $100-$500 in fines and possible criminal action.

“Despite the water conservation efforts, we wish to remind you that limited watering is still required to keep landscaping looking healthy and green,” read the letter, which said maintaining this appearance is part of keeping Glendora beautiful and keeping up city’s “Pride of the Foothills” image.

The letter, with the city seal and the police department seal, contained three pictures: a dead lawn with a red line through it, a weedy lawn also crossed out and a lush, green lawn with a sprinkler running in the daytime, apparently the positive example.

Thus they find themselves caught in a ridiculous position. On one hand, the state wants to see a 20% water reduction in homes and gives power to cities to fine water-wasters, yet at the same time a city threatens fines if a lawn, now brown due to water-saving measures, isn’t greened up.

Ironically, the couple received the letter the same day that the State Water Resources Control Board gave local agencies the power to hand out $500 fines for over watering lawns. And even more ironically, it will take the couple watering their brown lawn every day in order to green it up within the 60 day limit!

The City Manager denies the couple was cited but rather called it a friendly letter prompted by a neighbor’s complaint.

At this point in time, the couple say they plan to kill the remaining grass at the roots and re-seed with a heartier, more drought resistant grass.

On a side note, if the couple lived in Santa Cruz, CA and were fined for wasting water, rather than being fined for water conservation, they could attend the Santa Cruz Water School, in lieu of paying the fine.

–Dana

139 Responses to “Caught Between A Brown Lawn And A Hard Place”

  1. However, the Delta Smelt os doing fine, thank you.

    Mike K (b5c01a)

  2. Yeah, the Water Nazis are coming out of the woodwork.

    mojo (00b01f)

  3. Interestingly, the delta smelt took a hit this week and the enviros are very unhappy.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  4. Well they could always try the standard leftist tactic of higher authority trumps lower. So they could march into the city offices and claim that state rules/laws trump the city rules. See how far that takes them. I mean that is always the standard excuse when the states try to go against the federal. Unless you are talking some hedonistic pursuit like drugs or intimate relationships with others. Then the left is all about freedom from the federal government.

    Charles (7377cb)

  5. SoCal Muni-codes are filled with keep us beautiful crap such as this – they even forbid you from ‘planting’ astro-turf on front/side/parkway lawns.
    No matter how scarce water becomes, you must have a verdant green lawn, neatly trimmed.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  6. …and most (probably all) of those 17,100 lost ag jobs can be marked down to water diversion from farmer’s fields to ‘saving’ the Delta Smelt.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  7. Nice to know that “friendly letters” include fining threats. I’ll need to remember to include a few of those when I post on Facebook.

    PCachu (e072b7)

  8. Yes, the Code Enforcement types graduated at the top of their class from Brown-Shirt School.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  9. Just paint it green. Without rain and with dead grass it should last quite a while.

    Jim (145e10)

  10. is there for reals such thing as a decorative fountain that uses drinking water that doesn’t recycle the water?

    i would like to see an example please

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  11. Actually, the Mayor of San Diego (Maureen O’Connor – The Mighty Mo!) had IIRC two such fountains on the estate she inherited from her late husband (founder: Jack In The Box).
    Now, she’s broke from a gambling addiction.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  12. so are these like spring-fed fountains where they don’t collect the water?

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  13. The overflow was hooked up to the sewer.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  14. well this should go a long way towards fixing this drought thing then

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  15. Mike K and Dana – Thanks for the update on the smelts. I’ve been powerful worried about the little critters.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  16. I love this! This little story just sort of sums it all up in a perfect, tidy, bureaucratic nutshell, doesn’t it?

    elissa (dcf2ac)

  17. Yes, and the government acronym is: WAF!

    askeptic (efcf22)

  18. Jeffers suggested they apply for the city’s turf removal program, which pays $4 per square foot, twice as much as offered by Metropolitan Water District of Southern California. But leaving only dirt is unacceptable, he said.

    This is an exciting and progressive program that forces non-homeowners to subsidize the beautifully-xeriscaped lawns of homeowners.

    California is the tits!

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  19. A few years ago I was in Australia during a drought, and almost every lawn was brown; having a green lawn was almost anti-social. The occasional green lawn always had a prominent sign saying that the owners had installed some water-saving drip technology or a rain-water tank or something, because otherwise neighbours and passersby would think they were wasting water, and give them nasty looks or worse.

    Milhouse (50cb78)

  20. California has it’s own form of pressuring neighbors to conserve water: drought shaming on social media, cuz that’s just how California rolls.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  21. people need to get more fulfilling lives what don’t involve drought shaming people on the social media I think

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  22. On could wish that the couple could invite the neighbors and city officials whop are threatening them to a cook out,
    and also invite some vocal “don’t you dare waste water” folk to the same cookout,
    then duck.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  23. I remember reading somewhere about a state or city or whatever that put a certain plant on the protected list, meaning that there was a fine for destroying it, but forgot that it was already listed in the same code as a noxious weed, which property owners are required to eradicate, and are fined for allowing it to grow. I forget which fine was higher.

    Milhouse (50cb78)

  24. this drought

    it’s a measure of the fascist government of california’s utter failure to secure a cheap plentiful safe water supply for its citizens

    while spending lavishly on stem cell skin cream research and bullet trains to nowhere

    drought shamers should pause and reflect that it might be in their longer-term interest for that measure to err as much as possible on the side of “we have some serious work to do”

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  25. It’s actually the environmentalists who caused this drought.

    The farmers in California’s central valley are really in for it.

    The Republicans want to deprive them of their work force and the Democrats want to deprive them of their water. At least anyway, they’re willing to see that happen.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  26. Apparently Laura and Michael Whitney-Korte neglected to conserve waste all these years.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  27. Be simpler to just raise the price of water; the compliance costs would be limited to collaring people tampering with their meters.

    The Republicans want to deprive them of their work force and the Democrats want to deprive them of their water. At least anyway, they’re willing to see that happen.

    The weather is depriving them of their water. It’s a common property resource so it’s use requires regulation and a rationing system. The most efficient rationing system would likely be some sort of multiple price auction. The trouble is, there is nothing to ration this year.

    And back in the real world, the Republican caucus has a mess of Chamber-of-Commerce lickspittles who are happy to supply guest workers and illegal aliens to growers. Of course, in a well ordered society, you rely on domestic labor and do not import servile labor, but we are not a well ordered society. Suggest in the future we tell the growers in the Central Valley they can pay the full freight for their labor and the water and if that makes certain crops and certain landholdings uneconomic, so be it.

    Art Deco (ee8de5)

  28. we took out our front lawn years ago, replacing it with all native plants.

    the neighbor a few houses down, who’s yard was all green, pulled up one day and asked me when i was going to “do something” with my yard (apparently meaning make it just like hers).

    i told her that i’d let her landscape it if she paid our DWP bill. (a regular lawn and such can easily take you into a 4 figure bill in the summertime out here in The Valley)

    last i heard on the issue.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  29. it’s a measure of the fascist government of california’s utter failure to secure a cheap plentiful safe water supply for its citizens

    Yeah, and to secure cheap air fares achieved by the suspension of gravity. Price your available water correctly and let the chips fall where they may. Much of the state is a bloody desert and much of the remainder has a Koppen-system Mediterranean climate with seasonal rainfalls. You’re gbgoing to have these problems if you want to use that soil. Deal with it.

    Art Deco (ee8de5)

  30. we took out our front lawn years ago, replacing it with all native plants. the neighbor a few houses down, who’s yard was all green, pulled up one day and asked me when i was going to “do something” with my yard (apparently meaning make it just like hers).

    My mother used to get a chuckle out of some yards you see in Arizona. She said people went out there to escape the allergies they had back east and then imported deciduous trees and other inapt species of plant life (fed with irrigation water) and brought their allergies with them.

    Desert gardens of the sort you see in Phoenix can be beautiful (and are the appropriate sort of decoration for that particular climate).

    Art Deco (ee8de5)

  31. Art Deco (ee8de5) — 7/18/2014 @ 12:49 pm

    In well ordered society, you rely on domestic labor and do not import servile labor, but we are not a well ordered society.

    An economy can always get along with whatever labor it has, but one consequence of limiting the labor force is that certain businesses become unviable. that is true for a lot of farmers in California.

    As an alternative, they could:

    1) Grow different crops

    2) Automate some functions

    3) Rent land in Mexico.

    4) Try to recruit American Indians from reservations or any other concentration of poor people used to minimal living conditions that remains legal.

    But how any of that makes sense is another question.

    And if they had less water, the economy could survive too, but some farms could go out of business.

    The drought is not aucausing it. Not building reservooirs and released water alledgedly to keep the fish happy is what is causing severe problems for farmewrs.

    Suggest in the future we tell the growers in the Central Valley they can pay the full freight for their labor and the water and if that makes certain crops and certain landholdings uneconomic, so be it.

    You could do that. If you wanted to.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  32. wow you were very polite to your neighbor Mr. red

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  33. i do that occasionally, just to confuse people, mr feets. 8-)

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  34. Here’s the bottom line: Everyone in Southern California should already know that it is essentially a desert. Use water accordingly.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  35. 34. Dana (4dbf62) — 7/18/2014 @ 1:58 pm

    Here’s the bottom line: Everyone in Southern California should already know that it is essentially a desert. Use water accordingly.

    And then what happens when you are asked to cut water consumption by 20%?

    Do you get any credit for previous conservation?

    I don’t think so.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  36. (a) It’s absurd that Glendora is threatening to fine people for not having green enough lawns.

    (b) Glendora and the central valley farmers are in different hydrologic basins. It’s not the case that regulations or use in one region has any effect on the regulations or use in the other region.

    That said, a *small amount* of Glendora’s water is imported from a different hydrologic basin.

    The majority of Glendora’s water supply comes from local groundwater. According to http://ci.glendora.ca.us/departments-services/public-works/water/consumer-confidence, water is sourced from (a) groundwater from the san gabriel basin, (2) filtered surface water from the metropolitan water district, and (3) filtered surface water from the covina irrigating company.

    Sources (1) and (3) are entirely local to the southern california basins, and the real problem there is that southern california has not had enough water to replenish the southern california reservoirs.

    Source (2) – the metropolitan water district – pulls water from the state water project and from the colorado river.

    The Metropolitan Water District is *terrible* about explaining what percentage of its water comes from where, but it does supply this http://www.mwdh2o.com/mwdh2o/pages/yourwater/supply/res_storage/res_storage.pdf, which shows that the state water project’s reservoirs are at 41% and 30% of capacity (for the source reservoirs in the north). That strongly suggests that the problem is a *quantity available* problem, not an *allocation* problem. In particular, the snowpack was at 24% of normal on April 1, and the oroville reservoir has 1.03 million acre feet less water than at this time last year, which is *terrible*.

    aphrael (98d2d0)

  37. The couple should have told the city of Glendora to sod off.

    (sorry, couldn’t resist.)

    bridget (c19217)

  38. Golf courses in the U.S. abuse water. If you have ever played in Scotland you understand your playing what the weather has provided.
    Purity of the game.

    mg (31009b)

  39. The couple should have told the city of Glendora to sod off.

    Nice one.

    Milhouse (50cb78)

  40. And then what happens when you are asked to cut water consumption by 20%?

    Do you get any credit for previous conservation?

    I don’t think so.

    What difference at this point does it make, Sammy? It’s a severe drought. You try harder. Without desalination plants and sheer lack of rainfall, what else is a person supposed to do? It’s a desert. Live accordingly (Of course, the massive sprawls of estates and mansions in So. Cal. with extensive rolling lawns of green grass and lush foliage, won’t balk at fines.)

    Dana (4dbf62)

  41. And then what happens when you are asked to cut water consumption by 20%?

    Turn the sprinkler off, bathe only every other day, do your laundry about as frequently as my mother’s family did in suburban New Jersey in 1935, wash dishes by hand, demonstrate problem solving ability.

    Do you get any credit for previous conservation?

    Of course not. Why should they?

    Art Deco (ee8de5)

  42. That strongly suggests that the problem is a *quantity available* problem, not an *allocation* problem. In particular, the snowpack was at 24% of normal on April 1, and the oroville reservoir has 1.03 million acre feet less water than at this time last year, which is *terrible*.

    Presumably the water authority has some figures on short term and long term price elasticity of water demand and can plan the price hike accordingly. Each household will alter its consumption patterns according to income and utility.

    Art Deco (ee8de5)

  43. Does using less water lower my happy carbon footprint?

    mg (31009b)

  44. Anecdote: I was at the Oakland airport yesterday and the mensroom located nearest my gate was flooded as a busted urinal continuously spouted water onto the floor. The maintenance staff had enough time to put a “wet floor” sign up, but no one turned off the water. Made me wonder, who’s the bigger offender – the private or public sector?

    Regret (ec1ba2)

  45. Greetings:

    An evening to two ago, California’s current drought made the coverage on the PBS NewsHour broadcast. Ms. Judy Woodruff interviewed a spectrum of experts that included the head aparatchik of the Cali Water Commission which somewhat supervises some 400 local Water Boards or whatnots. The other guest was the Science Editor from San Francisco’s PBS station KQED. So, the spectrum covered the usual left to way left areas well.

    Unfortunately, the questions and answers found no use for the words “new” or “reservoir”. They mentioned the last catastrophic (pre-global warming/climate change/whatever) drought in 1976 but apparently, in a state in which the population has increased by about 50% since the last go round, the idea of actually building a new reservoir or two is so far beyond the pale as to not even be mentioned.

    On the bright side though, they didn’t go so far as to blame it on the global warming which also went, thankfully, unmentioned.

    11B40 (844d04)

  46. > Presumably the water authority has some figures on short term and long term price elasticity of water demand and can plan the price hike accordingly.

    Almost certainly not. Water contracts are typically locked in at long-term prices rather than fluctuating with the market, PARTICULARLY contracts with municipal agencies.

    aphrael (98d2d0)

  47. 11B40 – if global warming plays out the way it’s expected to, California has a massive, massive problem, and new dams will unfortunately be the only way out.

    The issue is this: the existing dams were built with an expectation of snowmelt in April-June. They are designed to hold water from that snowmelt until the start of the subsequent rainy season, typically November.

    If, as is expected by the models, global warming causes snowmelt to be a month earlier, then the dams *by design* won’t have the capacity to hold water for late October delivery, and late October deliveries will be hosed.

    aphrael (98d2d0)

  48. This is one reason that Neel Kashkari’s statement about climate change/drought in Cali resonates. Two separate issues, stop conflating them. Also, he’s in favor of scrapping the disgraceful spending of $68 billion on the train to nowhere and instead wants to build more water storage.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  49. he letter, with the city seal and the police department seal, contained three pictures: a dead lawn with a red line through it, a weedy lawn also crossed out and a lush, green lawn with a sprinkler running in the daytime, apparently the positive example.

    That there is funny. Big green thumbs up for a lush lawn in Glendora.

    I think City Hall has one of those fancy fountains what gush water directly to the sewer.

    Belay that. I know city hall has one.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  50. It’s a desert. Live accordingly …

    oh but no

    I’m not conserving water for these momos.

    Not gonna do it.

    If they want they can conserve for me.

    But nope it’s not my fault these fascist momos didn’t anticipate the inevitable.

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  51. Going against every instinct I have about the source,

    This water usage map shows Los Angeles and San Diego as the big slobbering aquawasters of the State.

    The rest of us are practicing modest frugality in our free Christian commerce. Naturally. Without coersion.

    Just the way we roll up here of Jefferson.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  52. in the State of Jefferson.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  53. That little squirrely bit up there by Modoc ? Blame Canada. I do.

    Oh wait I meant Nevada.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  54. I seem to remember that the movie Chinatown which was set in the 1930′s was about dirty California politics and—-water.

    elissa (e0b3e1)

  55. “Just the way we roll up here [in the state of ] Jefferson.”

    papertiger (c2d6da) — 7/18/2014 @ 6:23 pm

    Y’all roll teh fatties up there from what I’m told.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  56. I do hope for our first family’s sake that the drought doesn’t damage the arugula crop.

    elissa (e0b3e1)

  57. aphrael, as far as I know, the models have greatly overestimated the observed temperature “rise” to date. All of them. Significantly.
    In fact, the American Physical Society even appointed “luke-warmers” and skeptics to their panel to review their official position.
    I am looking forward to it coming out.

    Though it is interesting to realize how significantly the population has increased compared to what the infrastructure was designed for.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  58. I do hope for our first family’s sake that the drought doesn’t damage the arugula crop.

    elissa (e0b3e1) — 7/18/2014 @ 6:31 pm

    Let ‘em eat their talking shopping cart…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  59. Y’all roll teh fatties up there from what I’m told.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/18/2014 @ 6:30 pm

    Your tears of jelousy are delicious. And surprisingly refreshing over ice.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  60. At this point in time, the couple say they plan to kill the remaining grass at the roots and re-seed with a heartier, more drought resistant grass.

    Why do people insist on having lawns? That type of ground cover is rather dumb in a traditionally dry climate. Just plant something like ivy, which is tolerant of drought far better than just about any type of grass is.

    11B40 – if global warming plays out the way it’s expected to

    …then hopefully a limousine liberal like Al Gore will have to move to Michigan, where water is plentiful, and leave his verdant estate in Santa Barbara far, far behind. Or, for that matter, John McCain should get the hell out of Arizona, which is just about the last place anyone nervous about global warming should want to call home. I don’t even buy into the bilge of AGW, but a sweaty, desert type of climate like Arizona still seems godforsaken to me.

    Mark (1667b9)

  61. You can keep yer “stupefying blasts of intoxication”, papertiger. Heh… I read that description in High Times back in the late ’70s and have never forgotten it… wait… or was it “intoxicating blasts of stupefaction”? I ferget…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  62. Well. It is the Bee, so you don’t have to believe it.

    They lie alot.

    Otoh Los Angeles and San Diego are floating in extra gardening help.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  63. And then what happens when you are asked to cut water consumption by 20%?

    If you attain that level of conservation, the water barons (which are public agencies) will apply to the PUC for a rate increase, because the cash flow won’t sustain their infrastructure – which is exactly what happened following our last drought. Everybody conserved, and got a rate increase for their trouble.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  64. Here’s the thing, whether it’s the screw-up of ill prepared fascist momos or not, there still is a water shortage. No rainfall does that. What do you do?

    Dana (4dbf62)

  65. Hm, it looks like California is definitely moving toward building desalination plants. What’s the hold-up been? Cost (of course). And in true California fashion, the environment. The plants require huge amounts of energy and can harm fish and other marine life when it sucks in seawater.

    This is going to be the pig that will try for years to find the right shade of lipstick,” said Marco Gonzalez, an Encinitas attorney who sued on behalf of the Surfrider Foundation and other environmental groups to try to stop construction. “This project will show that the water is just too expensive.”

    Water v. marine life…

    Dana (4dbf62)

  66. i live life like a little pikachu if these momos need more water they can shut down some more farms or whatever

    it’s not really something what falls under the heading of things i need to worry about

    how is this even remotely my problem?

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  67. Random on-topic comments from another Jeffersonian:

    -Global warming: Last I checked, this was going to increase seasonal rainfall in California (at the very least in Northern California). This drought counts against global warming, contrary to some windbags.

    -Arugula crop: as far as I know, the East Coast is having too much rain.
    -Had to look up Glendora in the atlas. It’s right smack in the middle of the region that increased water use most.

    -I’m thinking to write to my assemblyman in favor of giving the governor authority to suspend “any local or state laws requiring the use of water for landscaping purposes” in case of drought. (I’m thinking of it as an extension of emergency powers.)
    There would need to be some notes about landscaping versus fire suppression, I suppose. It might make sense to give the Water Board authority to fine any government that ignores the suspension double the fines they seek to collect when the laws are suspended, though this would require sufficient notice.

    Ibidem (f2132b)

  68. plus it would be silly to conserve a bunch of water only to have it rain

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  69. btw when it DOES rain the amount of dust and dirt and particulates and trash and what have you in the effluent is gonna be EPIC

    this town is so filthy

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  70. Hey, we got the polar multiplex or whatever in the Midwest again now. I’m expecting blizzards when my Scouts go north of the Cheese Curtain next week.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  71. Keeps the skeeters down, though.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  72. skeeters give you the chunkychunky

    it’s a new thing

    third world diseases!

    right here in america!

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  73. speaking of polar cineplexes and what have you

    for all this drought talk it really hasn’t been a hot summer here in California so far

    that might come later, and wildfires too

    they get really wiggy about fires here

    I’m kinda curious what they’ll do with fires + historic drought

    get themselves all kinds of lathered up i betcha

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  74. I was scanning one of my glossy alumni publications earlier and ran across this:

    More than 55 million years ago the Earth underwent a period of global warming caused by increased levels of carbon dioxide. Doctoral candidate Rosemary Bush (G09) is studying plant fossils from the Big Horn Basin to understand how plants responded to the relatively short period of warming. Bush grinds up fossilized leaves to look at the isotopic abundance and composition in their biomarkers to track changes to past ecosystems. “if we can understand how plants responded to climate change in the past” Bush says, “maybe we’ll have a snowball’s chance of understanding how they’ll respond in the future.”

    Were there a lot of humans 55 million years ago?

    elissa (e0b3e1)

  75. i wonder if rosemary bush (srsly?) ever heard of natural selection

    and if she did

    did she understand it

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  76. Grandpa W:

    Freedom is the distance between “Thou must” to “Thou mustn’t”. If that distance is negative, you’re screwed.

    htom (412a17)

  77. Federal Government Moves To Reduce Sentences Of 46,000 Drug Offenders

    If the decision is not blocked by Congress, nearly half of federal prisoners incarcerated for drug crimes will be eligible for sentence reductions averaging more than two years. It would take effect Nov. 1, 2015.

    Holder Justice Eff Yeah

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  78. they get really wiggy about fires here

    Mr. Feets – We gots rules we try to follow about that. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it don’t.

    No Tents In Flames!

    Or something

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  79. is good policy

    Chicago, btw, is famous for the fire + cow nexus

    i read it on the internet

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  80. I don’t think cows in tents are a good mix, but that’s just me.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  81. free your mind and the rest will follow Mr. daley

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  82. Nice Steve Martin reference.

    Gazzer (40ed0d)

  83. Now, let me introduce you to Glendora, CA couple Laura Whitney-Korte and her husband Michael…

    If they’re smart, at some point in the near-future they’ll be living and prospering somewhere else besides California…

    Blacque Jacques Shellacque (b9c3f0)

  84. Depends on teh cow, daley… I give you, Moobeline…
    http://imgur.com/Eadc93P

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  85. Almost certainly not. Water contracts are typically locked in at long-term prices rather than fluctuating with the market, PARTICULARLY contracts with municipal agencies.

    They would still have data on the response to price changes, and could make use of data from out of area agencies. S.H. Hanke made his bones as a resource economist studying municipal water consumption, so academic studies on this question were already being done 40-odd years ago.

    Art Deco (ee8de5)

  86. If you attain that level of conservation, the water barons (which are public agencies) will apply to the PUC for a rate increase, because the cash flow won’t sustain their infrastructure – which is exactly what happened following our last drought. Everybody conserved, and got a rate increase for their trouble.

    Your inventory has been cleared from the shelves. A price increase is what is called for in this situation.

    Art Deco (ee8de5)

  87. Los Angeles reminds me of Jules from Pulp Fiction.

    Kicks down our door. Eats our burger at gunpoint. Then says,

    “Mind if I have some of your tasty beverage to wash this down with”

    Then chugs our whole Big Gulp.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  88. Landscape irrigation that causes runoff to streets and gutters.

    What system does not cause runoff?? This is just a way to end lawns. But when we end lawns, what will happen to all the gardeners? Aren’t we supposed to evaluate the impact on poor people of any of AB 32′s mandates?

    And speaking of AB 32, it mandates conservation over construction, so even if we could build a desal plant, the law forbids it.

    I don’t trust the stats on the effect of the drought. Has anyone vetted the study? For intance, most of the ag jobs were lost due to the fed’s closing down of the Central Valley, a man made drought.

    In L.A. the cities are hiring a bunch of new water cops who will drive around, take pictures of your home and fine you if there is water on your sidewalk. More employees, more union dues, more Dem campaign money. And if they don’t catch you, your comrades in the hood will inform on you, per instructions of our Party leaders.

    I honestly cannot believe what is happening. They are using the drought as an excuse. They hate human beings and intend to punish us for defiling nature.

    One bright spot: You are allowed to water with impunity to clean off human excrement from our valiant Homeless American class. Maybe the unemployed gardeners can do their business on your lawn and thus preserve their jobs?

    Patricia (5fc097)

  89. ==In L.A. the cities are hiring a bunch of new water cops who will drive around, take pictures of your home and fine you if there is water on your sidewalk. More employees, more union dues, more Dem campaign money. And if they don’t catch you, your comrades in the hood will inform on you, per instructions of our Party leaders.==

    Patricia, that sounds so eerily similar to 1960′s era Mao China procedures to “re-educate” by intimidation and neighborhood tattle-taleing.

    elissa (e423be)

  90. “Maybe the unemployed gardeners can do their business on your lawn and thus preserve their jobs?”

    Patricia – Could be a new section in the Want Ads – Will Poop For Money

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  91. California’s topography and natural resources cannot support a population of 38 million in the style it wants to be accustomed? Quelle surprise! Maybe if we all cried you a river?

    nk (dbc370)

  92. So it sounds like the Murrieta protesters were actually performing a public service by understanding public policy concerns about water when they try to prevent even more water users to move to California.

    elissa (e423be)

  93. In L.A. the cities are hiring a bunch of new water cops who will drive around, take pictures of your home and fine you if there is water on your sidewalk.

    Don’t you all have water meters? I’m thinking they’ll probably just check the meter. Little electronic gizmo reads it from the curb. The guy never has to get out of the truck. Maybe never even leaves the office.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  94. I’d go with the fake green turf or paint/stain.

    Screw them.

    Rich (a5d991)

  95. I know that Central Coast towns like Cambria now have a system where non-potable water can be picked up (you bring the containers) to use for yard watering and the like. But it’s a small town, not like the Behemoth that is Los Angeles. If Los Angeles can’t raise revenue through their outrageous parking ticket scams, why not on run-off water? No matter what it takes, they’ll get it.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  96. Maybe if we all cried you a river?

    There was an assertion not long ago that I was unfairly slamming America’s third largest city by noting its regularly occurring murders. But the wonderfulness of blue-state politics and policymaking know no bounds. So for America’s second largest city, it must be pointed out that its population growth rate for the past few decades (and that of California’s overall) is due largely to immigration, mainly from societies south of the border. So our future is pretty much dependent on, for example, the academic performance of people from countries like Mexico or Honduras—even if or when a shortage of water is no longer an issue.

    Yep, the light at the end of the tunnel is the specter of the best and brightest streaming on in through the border, thanks in part to blue-state politics, blue-state politicians.

    Meanwhile, America’s largest city is being managed by an out-and-out Socialist.

    Good times!

    Mark (1667b9)

  97. Just so we’re clear on your first “point”– that was no assertion on my part, Mark, It was an accusation backed up with rock solid proof that you were wrong about what you kept insisting on posting. If you drop it, I will drop it. If you don’t, then I will not either. Thanks.

    elissa (e423be)

  98. A good book on the subject is Cadllac Desert by Marc Reisner
    There is a good 4 part series on Youtube if you search for Cadillac Desert.

    I live in a water district that was facing running out of water by September.
    The users in the district are few, but a good deal of the properties are large, surrounded by privacy hedges, and fully landscaped. A large percentage of the properties are owned by part time residents.
    If I go over my allotment, each unit over is billed at $30 when usually it is at $4.
    There is an additional fine of $250 which escalates to $1000.
    After two violations the district installs a flow restrictor on the meter and the cost to install and remove is billed to the account.
    There is also a monthly charge of $37.50 to pay for any water needed in the event of a wildfire.
    A guy named Pat Nesbitt is threatening to sue because his polo field/experimental sod farm would cost him $148,000 a month to water. His “sod farm” was a bit of a legal dodge because he was not allowed to build a polo field, so he renamed it agriculture as an experimental sod farm. The experiment is seeing how the grass holds up to polo.
    I worked on this http://www.pccpolo.com/images/BellaVista.jpg and this http://www.pccpolo.com/images/BellaVista/butterfly.jpg for him

    The larger wealthier estates are buying water from agricultural wells that are situated in larger basins. Most have cut back on lawns because it is cheaper to reseed in the spring than it is to buy the water. the majority of the trucked water goes to hedges, orchards, roses, specimen trees… the stuff that is expensive to replant.
    Rich people usually understand finances, or if not, they have smart people who do.
    So they do the math and if they still want lawn, they run trucks all day at $500 per 5000 gallons

    The MWD has limited water resources. They don’t sit on much groundwater, as the mountains fall sharply to the ocean. There is no rain at all from June through October/November.
    The area is subject to periodic heavy drying winds throughout the night.
    The primary water source is from Juncal Dam on the far upper reaches of the Santa Ynez River. The river often runs dry in the dry season. The water from the lake flows to town via a tunnel under the Santa Ynez range
    The reservoir at Juncal has sedimentation problems and capacity is down.
    The state and the feds so far will not approve any sediment remediation plans; or plans to raise the dam, plus the area is very remote and it would be costly to truck out silt.
    The state and feds ordered MWD to abandon use of water from Alder creek.
    Alder creek water had historically been diverted into a flume and dropped into Juncal Lake.
    The district bought into the state water program, but are at the far end of service. The state water project has never come close to delivering the amount of water promised

    steveg (794291)

  99. Butt hurt, it’s what’s for dinner!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  100. What system does not cause runoff?? This is just a way to end lawns. But when we end lawns, what will happen to all the gardeners? Aren’t we supposed to evaluate the impact on poor people of any of AB 32′s mandates?

    Suggest that if you would like a lawn or a flower garden with thirsty plants in it, you be willing to pay for the water to maintain it at full freight. If you’re not, replace the lawn with ground cover that is not so thirsty and substitute plants in the flower bed with those more appropriate for an arid climate. ‘Full freight’ in this case would be a per-unit charge necessary to reduce aggregate consumption across greater Los Angeles to sustainable levels. Some people will use more than the mean and some people less according to income and tastes.

    High prices for water are just one reason, among many others, not to live in Los Angeles.

    Art Deco (ee8de5)

  101. In L.A. the cities are hiring a bunch of new water cops who will drive around, take pictures of your home and fine you if there is water on your sidewalk.

    You can ration with prices. If you insist on abandoning rationing with prices, you have to ration with administered allotments or with queues. And you get shizz like this.

    Art Deco (ee8de5)

  102. It was an accusation backed up with rock solid proof that you were wrong about what you kept insisting on posting

    Elissa, so the frequent news reports of murders occurring in Chicago, and often linked to at a major national website, aren’t correct? Or if you’re referring to the label of “murder capital,” I posted text in which that title is used by other people (Chicagoans, btw), and nothing about their, or my, saying it’s technically correct or not.

    Mark (1667b9)

  103. Mark you admitted on another thread that you don’t read links that are posted here to inform you and/or tend to refute your fantasies. That’s all anyone needs to know, I think

    elissa (e423be)

  104. refute your fantasies.

    Why the snippy tone?

    Incidentally, there is a link currently up at the drudgereport.com titled:

    CHICAGOLAND: 22 Shot in 12 Hours…

    And I’ll note it again: I never claimed the label of “Murder Capital” was an accurate one, and I never posted anyone saying it was.

    Mark (1667b9)

  105. mote, log, eyes, some disassembly required.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  106. == I never claimed the label of “Murder Capital” was an accurate one, and I never posted anyone saying it was.==

    Yet you kept using that incendiary phrase several days in a row on thread after thread here. You wanted to leave that impression for your own purposes and clearly you did not care if was accurate or not. Maybe that’s why you detect a “snippy tone”. Where does Chicago’s murder rate actually rank percentage wise (i.e., in relation to its size) with other U.S. cities, Mark? The information is out there and I know the answer. Until you can accept the honest answer to that question then the question of why you continue to focus and harp almost exclusively on the murders in the windy city, instead of the cities with a much higher murder rate, remains open. I said earlier that if you’d stop, I’d stop– and the blog community no doubt breathed a sigh of relief. But you can’t stop can you?

    elissa (e423be)

  107. Chicago has a shiny bean and an inordinate number of steakhouses. Oprah used to live there but now she’s a California girl. She’s warm now – and safe as houses – whilst Chicagoans huddle together in a polar cineplex. “Let the bodies hit the floor let the bodies hit the floor,” sings Oprah to herself as she lavishly waters her lush non-native landscapings.

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  108. If you really want Mark to click a link … Meter Maids in Bondage, free online.

    nk (dbc370)

  109. Yet you kept using that incendiary phrase several days in a row on thread after thread here. You wanted to leave that impression for your own purposes and clearly you did not care if was accurate or not.

    Elissa, I’d like you to show me where I kept using the “incendiary phrase” in postings beyond the ones where I was responding to your rebuttals. Moreover, if you want to ask someone about focusing or harping on murders in Chicago when, again, the very visible drudgereport.com site has been chock full of links for months to various stories about murders in that city — which go mainly to websites operating straight out of Chicago — that’s a question best posed to the media instead of me.

    Mark (1667b9)

  110. nk, you sly devil, you.

    Mark (1667b9)

  111. LOL nk. Or this link to rumors about President Obama’s sex life

    elissa (e423be)

  112. Chicago isn’t the murder capital on a per capita basis but a Washington Post blog has referred to Chicago as the murder capital as recently as September 2013, so perhaps Mark’s mistake is understandable.

    Mitch (8c79bc)

  113. Ditto NBC Chicago. I guess it’s an easy mistake for journalists to make when a city has a lot of murders.

    Mitch (8c79bc)

  114. so perhaps Mark’s mistake is understandable.

    Actually, Mitch, I’ve always assumed the dubious honor of “Murder Capital” went to a city like Detroit (or smaller cities when relying on per-capita figures), and that in the case of a Chicago-based reporter who cited that title (which started all these back-and-fro postings), he’ll play it up for the same reason some people want to call Los Angeles, or Las Vegas, or New York City “Entertainment Capital of the World.”

    Mark (1667b9)

  115. It may have been understandable the first time he said it, Mitch, But after it was pointed out to him by multiple people who supplied current data that that moniker was in error, he stubbornly continued to cling to and repeat his “mistake”. That’s the issue. Most people who comment here would have said, “hey thanks for pointing that out.” But not Mark. I don’t enjoy this little bloggy kerfuffle. But like most of us I hate it when leftists make up phony facts and figures and slogans to float some narrative, and it is equally disturbing when those on the right do the same thing. When they do it I think they need to be called out. YMMV

    elissa (e423be)

  116. The homicide rate of the Chicago municipality has hovered around 16 per 100,000 since 1999. Core cities incorporate varying percentages of the total metropolitan settlement and therefore vary in the degree to which they are demographically dominated by problem neighborhoods. I think about 35% of the Chicago metropolis is in the core city.

    In Detroit, about 18% is in the core city, which is now scarcely exceeds the boundaries of the slums. The homicide rate in the core city of Detroit now hovers around 48 per 100,000.

    St. Louis city apprehends about 15% of the total metropolis and has a homicide rate which hovers around 37 per 100,000.

    Omaha collars about 60% of the total metropolis and has a homicide rate of about 9 per 100,000.

    I suspect if you look at whole settlements, you’ll find New Orleans or Detroit or Memphis the worst.

    Chicago’s got some baaad neighborhoods, of course, but just about the most disagreeable place to be in the Chicago metropolis is just over the border in Gary, Indiana.

    Art Deco (ee8de5)

  117. Ditto NBC Chicago.

    Okay, maybe the reference point in question is more correct than even I assumed until right now. But it would explain why the media has been noticeably interested in glomming onto murder stories with a dateline of Chicago.

    From severe drought in California to lots of murders in the Midwest, this moment in time seems somehow quite fitting during America’s era of Obama.

    Mark (1667b9)

  118. But not Mark.

    Oh, sheesh, Elissa, now you’re getting ridiculous.

    Mark (1667b9)

  119. I’ll send my thanks your way, elissa. I never thought about the nuances of Chicago’s murder rate and crime statistics until I read your comments.

    Mitch (8c79bc)

  120. Elissa, I do compare our state of frenzied leftism with the Cultural Revolution. Now the Dear Leaders are pitting neighbor against neighbor and the results are getting ugly. I still want to know who ratted me out during the last drought for watering during the day. I swear I forgot, I’m just not a very good Commie yet.

    Of course there are ways to conserve and to increase supply, but CA will not do those things. Controlling people is their goal. We never did finish Pat Brown’s water plan, I read. And desal is doable, but again, the law mandates conservation. And that leaves more money for the super train.

    And yes, new water cops are being hired as we speak. This party captain is just too darn busy!

    http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20140716/drought-buster-patrols-the-streets-of-los-angeles

    Patricia (5fc097)

  121. If it bleeds, it leads.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  122. More than 55 million years ago the Earth underwent a period of global warming caused by increased levels of carbon dioxide.

    Nope. The warming came first, and the increased CO2 later.

    Milhouse (b95258)

  123. In L.A. the cities are hiring a bunch of new water cops who will drive around, take pictures of your home and fine you if there is water on your sidewalk.

    Don’t you all have water meters? I’m thinking they’ll probably just check the meter.

    How will that show whether the person has violated the water restrictions? Maybe they’re just using a lot of water without any of it running off onto the street.

    Milhouse (b95258)

  124. You are correct, Milhouse, it’s the type of usage They object to. Soon enough though their creepy investigations will move inside our homes. They are taking their time to break us down gently so as not to cause a ruckus when They finally control all of our water and utility usage.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  125. If we had a law like that in Chicago, we’d know that David Axelrod’s second cousin had the exclusive distributorship for those perforated hoses that people run across their lawns instead of sprinklers.

    nk (dbc370)

  126. I just watched the new movie Snowpiercer. It’s a dystopian tale of our earth entering a new Ice Age because global warming gone bad nonsense, so the only way to stay alive is to stay on The Train. The haves live in the front of the train and control everything, including the have-nots who live in the back of the train. The inevitable revolt occurs, and the goal of the savvy have-nots is to get to fight their way to the front of the train to the water supply. They understand that whoever controls the water, controls The Train.

    Same here, whoever controls the water...

    Dana (4dbf62)

  127. Figure 1. Freshwater use in California

    the whole article is here

    (SF=single family; MF=multi-family)

    whether i conserve water or not is immaterial to this equation

    tis clear

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  128. Dana, that’s the history of the big ranches in the west. Ranchers would “prove up”, in various ways, on water sources — riverfronts, streams, springs, waterholes — and then would have de facto control of the open range around them.

    nk (dbc370)

  129. Hey Dana, that movie gives me an idea. How about we fill up the Bullet Train with water from up North and transport it down here? If Brown insists on building it, at least it will prove somewhat useful.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  130. Anecdote: I was at the Oakland airport yesterday and the mensroom located nearest my gate was flooded as a busted urinal continuously spouted water onto the floor. The maintenance staff had enough time to put a “wet floor” sign up, but no one turned off the water. Made me wonder, who’s the bigger offender – the private or public sector?

    Regret (ec1ba2) — 7/18/2014 @ 5:13 pm

    Public sector. We in the Los Angeles area are allowed to water twice a week, not so the government which routinely wastes water including diverting thousands of gallons of fresh water for a project that was supposed to conserve water but has multiple fountains with the water going to the ocean.

    I don’t trust the stats on the effect of the drought. Has anyone vetted the study? For intance, most of the ag jobs were lost due to the fed’s closing down of the Central Valley, a man made drought.

    Patricia (5fc097) — 7/19/2014 @ 8:27 am

    We have a plan for the drought. Divert water from the Sacramento delta to reservoirs and irrigation. When water is short, use the water from the reservoirs. Problem is they turned off the water. Turns out the dropping numbers of delta smelt was greatly exaggerated, but they still won’t turn it back on. Environmentalism like this leads to poverty.

    While I’m at it how about when they legislated MTBE in our gasoline in the name of clean air which caused tanks to leak and permanently polluted our ground water.

    This is why whenever our big government masters suggest a large scale program, we need to say no, and make them prove their program on a small scale. There should never be a hurry to implement government programs because “we have to do something”. My response is, “no we don’t”.

    In some cases they have already implemented programs on a smaller scale that have been colossal failures, yet they still want to implement the programs on a large scale. Because magically their failed programs will work. Sort of like the business model of the underwear knomes.

    Tanny O'Haley (87b2aa)

  131. delta smelt for too long a fish has dwelt

    in a faded failifornia what’s bone dry

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  132. Little known fact. The delta smelt is a non native species imported from Japan to act as a food stuff for the non native salmon imported from Alaska.

    Potemkin ecosystems all the way down.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  133. Now that’s funny in a sad way. You’d think they’d want to get rid of the delta smelt since it’s not indigenous to California. I wonder if they know?

    Tanny O'Haley (87b2aa)

  134. UC Davis scientists have found large populations of the delta smelt south of the delta. Not really endangered is the smelt.

    http://californiawaterblog.com/2013/04/01/large-delta-smelt-population-found-south-of-delta/

    Tanny O'Haley (87b2aa)

  135. Tammy, large scale or small scale, your water system will be a public project or regulated natural monopoly. No use bleating about ‘big government’.

    Art Deco (ee8de5)

  136. Tanny those pictures of humongous smelt are photoshopped. They’re pulling your leg.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  137. Tanny those pictures of humongous smelt are photoshopped. They’re pulling your leg.

    papertiger (c2d6da) — 7/20/2014 @ 9:35 am

    Then Google wasn’t my friend. It doesn’t change the fact that the delta smelt isn’t indigenous to California.

    Tanny O'Haley (87b2aa)

  138. If it’s brown, flush it down. If it’s yellow, let it mellow.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  139. I was in a Delmar store and a recent Bethlehem grad could not make change in his head from the $10 bill I gave him. The BCSD should probably focus their efforts on why this young person lacks the basic skills to function in a high tech society before worrying about Chinese or any language other than English.

    casino online (a13827)


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