Patterico's Pontifications

5/9/2014

Hillary: Punching Back With A Tweet

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:10 am

[guest post by Dana]

Untitled-3

At this point in time, most of us are aware that Hillary Clinton dropped the ball by declining to designate Boko Haram a terrorist organization in spite of top State Department officials and a military commander urging her to do so. To be clear,

The State Department under Hillary Clinton fought hard against placing the al Qaeda-linked militant group Boko Haram on its official list of foreign terrorist organizations for two years.

Because of the two year delay until John Kerry made the designation in 2013, Boko Haram was able to grow, both in number and power, as well as gain support from al Qaeda affiliates elsewhere in Africa that could make it a threat beyond Nigeria.

Due to being unable to make use of the mechanisms provided the United States when dealing with a designated terrorist organization, the fears and warnings once again became reality with Boko Haram’s latest campaign against the Nigerian school girls.

Given this recent revelation, the question is: Does this – on top of Benghazi – hurt Hillary and her chances in 2016? And if so, how much?

On a side note, given that the president is now sending military officials and hostage negotiators to Nigeria to aid in the recovery efforts of the kidnapped girls, (and heroic Hollywood is fighting Boko Haram with hashtags!), do you believe this an adequate and/or appropriate response by the United States?

–Dana

77 Responses to “Hillary: Punching Back With A Tweet”

  1. I am not suggesting that it is an absolute that had Hillary’s State Dept. made the designation, the girls would not have been kidnapped. I believe that had she made the designation back then, the organization’s ability to grow into the current powerful entity it now is, could have, and likely would have, been limited.

    Dana (9f8700)

  2. America’s White House is a redoubt of the mediocre and the whorish.

    Hillary was already a perfect fit but these new revelations can only help her on her quest I think.

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  3. hostage negotiators? BH didn’t take hostages, they culled livestock from a wild herd to be branded/rebranded and sold to the highest bidder. People taking hostages don’t want the hostages, they want their demands met in return. All these clowns want is money for the property they feel they have the right to take.

    How long before the call goes out to pay BH the $12/head?

    WTP (41d24a)

  4. She was one hell of a Sec. of State with excellent diplomatic instincts and an amazing, almost uncanny ability to always draw the proper conclusions from her access to both historical and contemporary institutional knowledge, waddent she?

    We should make that lady president.

    elissa (b88a7c)

  5. I know, WTP, the fact they’d send hostage negotiators means they have no clue as to what part of the world in which they’re operating. And for that matter, what century.

    It also means they are so firmly blinkered by PC will never acknowledge that they’re dealing with people who are motivated by a theology. They insist they’re dealing with people who are upset by endemic poverty, lack of development, and poor job prospects.

    I half expect them to open negotiations with Boko Haram by offering to build clinics, day care centers, and schools.

    Steve57 (e86077)

  6. They couldn’t designate them as terrorists, because they were decimating terrorist networks around the world. It didn’t fit Teh Narrative.

    JD (7eac2b)

  7. #HashtagDiolomacy

    Hillary and FLOTUS were silent on this until their vapid hashtag tweets. At that point, I think we were already on the 2nd round of known mass abductions. I guess, in theory, it wid be possible for them to do less, but I don’t see how.

    JD (7eac2b)

  8. The State Department under Hillary Clinton fought hard against placing the al Qaeda-linked militant group Boko Haram on its official list of foreign terrorist organizations for two years.

    A perfect example of the screwed-up, ass-backwards mentality of people in positions of power and influence in this Nidal-Hasan-ized America. I’m fairly sure that the main reason why such a disreputable bunch like Boko Haram got a million passes was because it involves non-Westerners, non-Caucasians, and so for folks like Hillary that pinged their “soft bigotry of low expectations.”

    BTW, there’s a bit of controversy stirring in loony-liberal land (aka Hollywood/LA) pertaining to the Beverly Hills Hotel and its ownership of the Sharia-law-supporting Sultan of Brunei. The left is in a tizzy over the brutality of Islamism (and understandably so, since Islamism is evocative of the Dark Ages). But in this instance, I suspect the only reason why the limousine-liberal crowd is unhappy — enough so to form a boycott — is because press reports emphasize the way that Brunei’s laws affect (and punish) homosexuals, and perhaps adulterers too. If the angle instead focused only on, for example, the punishment of Christians, the left would shrug and continue to ostracize people like the woman originally slated to speak at Brandeis.

    Mark (99b8fd)

  9. An appropriate response would be that the kidnap victims are discovered alive, with no understanding of what happened to the kidnappers, who disappeared and have not been heard from since the discovery of their victims.

    In other news, the US Navy has recently requested that swimmers and divers in the Indian ocean be very wary of sharks.

    htom (412a17)

  10. Greetings:

    Hey, granmama’s got game, kind of like women’s basketball. You know, low and slow. Go granny go.

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  11. On a side note, given that the president is now sending military officials and hostage negotiators to Nigeria to aid in the recovery efforts of the kidnapped girls, (and heroic Hollywood is fighting Boko Haram with hashtags!), do you believe this an adequate and/or appropriate response by the United States?

    Ugh, I have seen on Facebook pictures of Sean Penn holding up a #BringBackOurGirls sign. You know, Sean Penn, who likes to go visit his good buddy Fidel Castro in Cuba, a state that is becoming pretty well known as a destination for decadent Western sex tourists because of the number of young girls who are forced into that industry in order to feed their families in that backwards failed Marxist dictatorship. But hey, young girls who live in a socialist paradise ought to be proud to prostitute themselves. It’s a revolutionary act.

    JVW (9946b6)

  12. 4. We could save on the whoremongering SS entourage having a POTUS who dodges bullets on the tarmac.

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  13. So, the reason we’ve treated all the incinerated Nigerians with benign neglect until now wasn’t racism?

    And it wasn’t religious persecution?

    Just the wind blowing away from our nostrils? What?

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  14. We should make that lady president.

    she’s no lady.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  15. The voice of Hillary Clinton was all over the news the other day.

    Like I hear so many times, Hillary Clinton has to give an explanation of why we should logically care about something, or why it is wrong.

    Nobody else needs an explanation of what it is or an elaboration that it is bad. This is talking
    like a sociopath.

    Another thing, look how she struggles to describe it.

    And then she remembers…

    She should also call it an “act of terror.”

    This is the language, IIRC, that Obama used to describe Benghazi on September 12 and September 13, 2012.

    You could say that maybe you shouldn’t call them terrorists, but some other word, like extremists. The word in Hebrew that is translated as
    terrorist is most properly really translated “saboteur.”

    But this was real terror. The purpose was to terrorize people from sending children to school.

    In these countries, education is not free, and the
    good schols are boarding schools, and only a minority send children to good schools – so there is real hope of stopping it.

    This is beinbg treated as an isolated incident, and maybe that’s why there’sthis big reaction. Actually, Boko Haram has been doing this for some time.

    When it is a boy’s school, they kill the children, and when it is a girl’s school, they keep them alive, (for the most part) but kidnap them.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  16. Bill Clinton says Boko is the way they are because Poverty.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  17. Bill Clinton, genius.

    According to the World Bank here’s a list of countries that per capita are poorer than Nigeria.

    Kiribati
    Cambodia
    Sao Tome and Principe
    Nepal
    Comoros
    Haiti
    Madagascar

    How come I’ve never heard of anyone from any of those places trying to drive a suicide car bomb into a church?

    Steve57 (e86077)

  18. 6. They couldn’t designate them as terrorists, because they were decimating terrorist networks around the world. It didn’t fit Teh Narrative.

    Comment by JD (7eac2b) — 5/9/2014 @ 7:02 am

    I think they just thought it would look bad because Boko Haram swore allegiance to that terrorist group that Obama had already destroyed, and that terrorist group that Obama had already destroyed kept couriering money to Boko Haram.

    Terrorist groups, listen up! If you make Obama look bad like that, you’ll never make our “A” list. Pick another well funded group to swear alliegance to that Obama hasn’t already destroyed.

    Steve57 (e86077)

  19. 16. Comment by Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 5/9/2014 @ 11:14 am

    Bill Clinton says Boko is the way they are because Poverty

    He’s lying. This is not an error in thinking – it is a lie.

    Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8)

  20. one of the wisest takes on the subject

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303701304579549603782621352

    and this fits as well with AoS, as AQIM, as Boko Haram

    narciso (3fec35)

  21. It is also time for Western liberals to wake up. If they choose to regard Boko Haram as an aberration, they do so at their peril. The kidnapping of these schoolgirls is not an isolated tragedy; their fate reflects a new wave of jihadism that extends far beyond Nigeria and poses a mortal threat to the rights of women and girls. If my pointing this out offends some people more than the odious acts of Boko Haram, then so be it.

    This.

    If pointing it out is perceived by the liberal left as worse than Boko Haram’s actions, then it’s to their collective shame, disgrace and detriment. And it tells everyone all they need to know.

    Dana (df0733)

  22. There should have been quotation marks around first para. It’s from narciso’s Hirsi Ali’s linked op-ed.

    Dana (df0733)

  23. 21. 23. Narciso’s link appeared in the Wall Street Journal today and was posted online yesterday at 7:18 pm EDT.

    What exactly is taken from it?

    She writes:

    …The history of Boko Haram has followed precisely this script. The group was founded in 2002 by a young Islamist called Mohammed Yusuf, who started out preaching in a Muslim community in the Borno state of northern Nigeria. He set up an educational complex, including a mosque and an Islamic school. For seven years, mostly poor families flocked to hear his message. But in 2009, the Nigerian government investigated Boko Haram and ultimately arrested several members, including Yusuf himself. The crackdown sparked violence that left about 700 dead. Yusuf soon died in prison—the government said he was killed while trying to escape—but the seeds had been planted. Under one of Yusuf’s lieutenants, Abubakar Shekau, Boko Haram turned to jihad.

    In 2011, Boko Haram launched its first terror attack in Borno. Four people were killed, and from then on violence became an integral part, if not the central part, of its mission. The recent kidnappings—11 more girls were abducted by Boko Haram on Sunday—join a litany of outrages, including multiple car bombings and the murder of 59 schoolboys in February. On Monday, as if to demonstrate its growing power, Boko Haram launched a 12-hour attack in the city of Gamboru Ngala, firing into market crowds, setting houses aflame and shooting down residents who ran from the burning buildings. Hundreds were killed.

    I am often told that the average Muslim wholeheartedly rejects the use of violence and terror, does not share the radicals’ belief that a degenerate and corrupt Western culture needs to be replaced with an Islamic one, and abhors the denigration of women’s most basic rights. Well, it is time for those peace-loving Muslims to do more, much more, to resist those in their midst who engage in this type of proselytizing before they proceed to the phase of holy war.

    It is also time for Western liberals to wake up. If they choose to regard Boko Haram as an aberration, they do so at their peril. The kidnapping of these schoolgirls is not an isolated tragedy; their fate reflects a new wave of jihadism that extends far beyond Nigeria and poses a mortal threat to the rights of women and girls. If my pointing this out offends some people more than the odious acts of Boko Haram, then so be it.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  24. Here’s Obama: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/09/us/politics/obama-meditates-on-the-limits-of-using-power-in-syria-and-nigeria.html?_r=0

    I have this remarkable title right now — president of the United States,” he said Wednesday night in Los Angeles. “And yet every day when I wake up, and I think about young girls in Nigeria or children caught up in the conflict in Syria — when there are times in which I want to reach out and save those kids — and having to think through what levers, what power do we have at any given moment.”

    Onl;y sometimes he wants to help?

    The quote in Best of the Web is somewhat different:

    I have this remarkable title right now–President of the United States–and yet every day when I wake up, and I think about young girls in Nigeria or children caught up in the conflict in Syria–when there are times in which I want to reach out and save those kids–and having to think through what levers, what power do we have at any given moment, I think, “drop by drop by drop,” that we can erode and wear down these forces that are so destructive; that we can tell a different story.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  25. Note to Hillary; Islamic jihadists don’t believe that “access to education is a basic right.”

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  26. He’s lying. This is not an error in thinking – it is a lie.

    Well Sammy, seeing as how it’s Bill Clinton we are talking about the fact that he is lying is given. The man is simply incapable of uttering the truth, unless it is wholly by accident.

    JVW (9946b6)

  27. 16. Comment by Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 5/9/2014 @ 11:14 am

    “Bill Clinton says Boko is the way they are because Poverty”

    He’s lying. This is not an error in thinking – it is a lie.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8) — 5/9/2014 @ 12:56 pm

    Perhaps that’s just the way these leftwingers think, Sammy.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  28. It’s almost Otto level with this whole crew, I don’t know if they really believe it, or they are just terrified of stating the truth,

    narciso (3fec35)

  29. what is Otto? I don’t know the reference.

    Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8)

  30. “Bill Clinton says Boko is the way they are because Poverty”

    SF: He’s lying. This is not an error in thinking – it is a lie.

    Comment by Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 5/9/2014 @ 4:03 pm

    Perhaps that’s just the way these leftwingers think, Sammy

    It could be that’s the way he thinks his audience thinks, or woud believe. It is a kind of old left-wing trope – poverty causes crime or bad treatment causes people to do wrong.. (comforting, in a way)

    Well, they may hold that if the wrongdoers are not of European extraction.

    Rednecks don’t need mistreatment to mistreat others and the same thing with Germans and so on, unless maybe they are poor.

    This is a statement (the exception) that can never be made explicitly, because it is so absurd, but they do have a double standard, which they may not even realize.

    Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8)

  31. That is quite a pouty puss on her, SPQR… she doesn’t need to ever worry about “laugh-lines”… ever.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  32. “It could be that’s the way he thinks his audience thinks, or woud believe. It is a kind of old left-wing trope – poverty causes crime or bad treatment causes people to do wrong.. (comforting, in a way)”

    Bingo, Sammy… you found an acorn.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  33. SPQR, you likely already know this site. I’ve tuned the link to Murray Leinster (great writer), but there’s a ton of other free SF from Baen. http://www.freesfonline.de/authors/Murray_Leinster.html

    nk (dbc370)

  34. I was working on this, before this Hirsi Ali piece;

    http://narcisoscorner.blogspot.com/?view=classic

    narciso (3fec35)

  35. nk, you mean … since I have friends with their stuff up on the free library on Baen, I might have heard of it? ;-)

    SPQR (c4e119)

  36. How do I know who your friends are? You’ve never let me into your cabal?

    nk (dbc370)

  37. Of course they weren’t a terrorist group back then, they were only massacring Christians…but now, with girls it’s a whole other matter.

    in_awe (7c859a)

  38. 26. Note to Hillary; Islamic jihadists don’t believe that “access to education is a basic right.”

    Comment by Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 5/9/2014 @ 3:14 pm

    I hear she’s going to challenge Abubakar Shekau to a cage match. She needs to do something to put her in a solid lead for the party nom what with these Benghazi hearings coming up.

    Girls’ education. Basic right? Or haram!

    Two go in, one comes out.

    Steve57 (68a01c)

  39. The Salafis don’t believe that the Earth is round or that rain forms from water that has evaporated from the ground because that’s not what the Prophet said. For real.

    nk (dbc370)

  40. I know, nk. They also believe the sun sets into a muddy or dirty spring or pool. And that this is some place you can actually get to.

    There’s a Hadith.

    “Abu Dharr (one of Muhammad’s close companions) was with Muhammad during the sunset. Muhammad asked him: ‘Do you know, O Abu Dharr where this sun sets?’ He answered; ‘God and His apostle know better.’ Muhammad said: ‘It sets in a spring of slimy water’” – al-Zamakhshari, The Kahshaf (3rd Edition, Vol. 2, p. 743, 1987) [1]

    You have to believe this to be a Muslim.

    Steve57 (68a01c)

  41. What is it with these tweets? Hillary has a tweet about the girls. Moochelle has a tweet about the girls.

    Reminds me of the line that frustrated dates had in the 1960′s “NATO”–which stood for No Action Talk Only.

    Skeptical Voter (12e67d)

  42. there was a Journal piece, over who took credit for the hashtag, shirley I wish I was kidding,

    Meanwhile, they are literally on the other side;

    http://weaselzippers.us/185521-elizabeth-warren-is-fundraising-off-of-benghazi/

    narciso (3fec35)

  43. Steve57 #43 – given the tendency of our species to think independently a lot of the time, I have to suspect that, within Islam, there have to be many many Muslims who do not actually believe every literal word of the Quran … just as many Christians do not believe every literal word of the Bible …

    On our planet, the unquestioning believer is a source of problems for the rest of us, whether it is in Islam, or Christianity, or the more recent Cult of Anthropogenic Global Warming …

    And, amongst the worst, we find those unquestioning devotees of the Cult of Settled Science – the ones wanting to burn at the stake anyone who dares to question their sacred Settled Science …

    Alastor (2e7f9f)

  44. Steyn:

    http://www.steynonline.com/6326/bringbackourballs

    I don’t really believe Hilarity was in on the trade for the Blind Sheikh. One of those little mundane problems leadership has no desire to know.

    That’s what minions are for.

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  45. 48. One thing Steyn wrote:

    But it’s sobering to reflect that the urge to call on someone else to do something is now so reflexive and ingrained that even “the government” – or in this case the wife of “the government” – is now calling on someone else to do something.

    And this is Barack Obama:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/09/us/politics/obama-meditates-on-the-limits-of-using-power-in-syria-and-nigeria.html?_r=0

    “I have this remarkable title right now — president of the United States,” he said Wednesday night in Los Angeles. “And yet every day when I wake up, and I think about young girls in Nigeria or children caught up in the conflict in Syria — when there are times in which I want to reach out and save those kids — and having to think through what levers, what power do we have at any given moment.”

    Also:

    “I think drop by drop by drop that we can erode and wear down these forces that are so destructive, that we can tell a different story,” the president said.

    And:

    “None of the tragedies that we see today may rise to the full horror of the Holocaust,” Mr. Obama said. But, he added, “they demand our attention, that we not turn away, that we choose empathy over indifference and that our empathy leads to action. And that’s not always easy.” >>
    And:
    “Even when the path is not always clearly lit, we have to try,”

    Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8)

  46. “Even when the path is not always clearly lit, we have to try,”

    Was that before or after Obama turned his back and ignored the cries for help from Americans fighting for their lives in Benghazi and left them to die at the hands of Islamic terrorists?

    ropelight (7bc8a0)

  47. In other words was Obama for trying to help before he was against it?

    ropelight (7bc8a0)

  48. “Obama fatigue”
    polite way to describe this
    constant need to retch

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  49. I have to suspect that, within Islam, there have to be many many Muslims who do not actually believe every literal word of the Quran

    But if they know at least the basics — the fundamentals — of the history and nature of their religion’s founder and leader, Mohammed — who was a ruthless, vengeful, murderous fanatic — what does that say about them? What does that say about people who want anything to do with him?

    Mark (99b8fd)

  50. Comment by ropelight (7bc8a0) — 5/11/2014 @ 6:59 am

    Obama turned his back and ignored the cries for help from Americans fighting for their lives in Benghazi and left them to die at the hands of Islamic terrorists?

    I don’t anybody ever made a decision like that. It was, however, the situaiton, that a decision to cross a border requires the consent ofthe government of the country, unless the President of the United States specifically authorizesd it, and they kept on hearing everything was going to OK, or that there was nothing to do. Obama never got asked any question like this. The U.S. governments contacts in Libya kept basically stalling. They needed to take some Libyans with them, the Ambassador wa sin the hospital, the hosital was guadd by Ansar al sharia, he was dead and they were taking him away – the CIA annex was no longer under attack so they should stay at the Benghazi airport.

    Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8)

  51. Amnesty International made a report about the kidnapping of the girls – and Amnesty International is not an investigative agency so this was easy to find out.

    The army of Nigeria was warned for hours that trucks carrying Boko Haram men was heading for he school. People knew that’s where they were heading because they were asking for directions. The army stood down. They may or may not have warned the school. A very small force fought for a short time. The girls wer tricked into coming with Boko Haram. they pretended to be Nigerian military evacuating them.

    It’s easy to understand why there were deomonstrations against the government. Nigeria is a notorously corrupt place and there were suspicions some people in the military were broobed to let this happen – and might still have contact with Boko Haram.

    At first, President Goodluck Jonathan, and his wife, the first lady, Patience Jonathan, were critizing the demonstrators (she was) and the President was vowing that this would not stop Nigeria’s forward progress.

    Now that the whole world is up in arms and excited about this, and there’s some kind of a world economic forum also meeting in Nigeria, he said this might be the beginning of the end of terrorism in Nigeria (words to that effect)

    On Face the Nation (I think) someone was interviewed (former U.S. Amb to Nigeria under Bush II) who said it was unfair to blame Hillary for not naming Boko Haram a terrorism group. He and others familiar with Nigeria had also opposed it, on the grounds that the main purpose of designating a group terrorist was to cut off money from being sent to them and their leaders from visiting the U.S. and neither was relevant. he also claimed it was decentralized. I think he claimned that naming it a terrorist group might make it hard for people who wanted to negotiate ransoms – I think that’s what he was saying.

    Bob Schieffer said late in the program that while they hope the girls are alive, they have no word on them – no knowl3edge that they have not been killed.

    Boko Haram has killed approximately 1,200 people. The boys in the schools they kill, the girls they kidnap, but apparently nobody is sure that actually keep them alive.

    Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8)

  52. An issue that limited co-operation and aid in the past against Boko Haram was Nigerian military human rights violations. I did not hear the details.

    All drones currently available are being used somewhere – some would have to be diverted to go to Niigeria (if they got the Nogerian government’s permission) The Pentagon is reported to be making planes. I would say send them — a lot of what they are doing is probably worthless or repetitive.

    Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8)

  53. President goodluck Janathan claims he doesn’t know how it was possible to kidnap all those girls. But we know how that happened. They impersonated Nogerian military.

    Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8)

  54. it does beg the question, what is the State Department good for, I think Warren Starr had the answer;

    http://therightscoop.com/trey-gowdy-takes-democrats-apart-over-fundraising-duplicity-hypocrisy-selective-amnesia/

    narciso (3fec35)

  55. Alastor @46, you are correct, not every Muslim believes every word of the Koran is literally true, just as not every Christian believes every word of the Bible is literally true.

    But it’s important to understand the difference between the two creeds in order to understand the implications of that.

    Christianity teaches that scripture is both human and divine. It is divinely inspired, but created by humans.

    Islam teaches that the Koran is the uncreated word of Allah. It is literally the word of Allah. Muhammad did not have any input into it but was merely the scribe; every word in the Koran is Allah’s as delivered by his messengers such as the angel Gabriel. It is divine only. An exact copy of the Koran that is inscribed upon a tablet in Heaven and has existed for all eternity.

    So to the extent that Muslims do not believe the literal truth of every word in the Koran they are not Muslim.

    By the same token Christians don’t believe the prophets were infallible human beings.

    For instance (Numbers 20) when the Israelites were wandering the desert they had no water to drink. Moses and Aaron were ocmmanded to speak to a rock and water would gush out, showing that God would provide for their needs. But Moses got angry at the Israelites and struck the rock, making it appear that he and Aaron were the source of the water. This angered God, and that’s why God forbade Moses and Aaron to lead the Israelites into the promised land.

    But Muslims believe Muhammad was the perfect moral being. He is to be emulated in every way. That’s why Islamic countries are legalizing child marriage between old men and girls as young as 9. Because Muhammad did it, and therefore it is right.

    Steve57 (185ff3)

  56. But Moses got angry at the Israelites and struck the rock, making it appear that he and Aaron were the source of the water

    Well that he got angry is the explanation given by some Rabbis, but the Torah says he didn’t have faith in God. He played it safe.

    I think it bothered him to speak to the rock, because a rock is an inanimate object and furthermore this made it look like a god.

    He also wasn’t sure what would happen, and asked a question rather than stating definitively that water would flow. He didn’t speak to the rock, but hit it, repeating what he had done nearly 40 years before.

    He played it safe, whether the water flowed or it didn’t, he would not be embarrassed, although he was hoping that it did.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb3ae)

  57. Comment by Steve57 (185ff3) — 5/11/2014 @ 12:29 pm

    But Muslims believe Muhammad was the perfect moral being. He is to be emulated in every way. That’s why Islamic countries are legalizing child marriage between old men and girls as young as 9. Because Muhammad did it, and therefore it is right.

    Indeed it doesn’t come from the Koran, but from sayings and actions of Mohammed – some can be and are disputed.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb3ae)

  58. All this about the girls is actually Saul Alinksy tactics: focus on one thing as if it were in isolation.

    http://www.jewishpress.com/blogs/this-ongoing-war/michelle-obamas-nigerian-girls-speech-and-what-it-misses/2014/05/11/

    As for Mrs Obama’s perfectly justifiable outrage at grown men “determined to keep these girls from getting an education,” we wonder if she is aware of the other unconscionable atrocities for which this group has taken responsibility. Tragically, it’s not only about education or girls. A very partial list:
    • Boko Haram terrorists bombed a Catholic church, filled with worshipers, in January 2014, and killed 45 of them [source].

    • Boko Haram terrorists carried out two roadside attacks on unsuspecting travelers in September 2013 and murdered no fewer than 159 of them, all fellow Nigerians ["22-Sep-13: A quiet weekend"] A week later they attacked the College of Agriculture in Yobe state and shot students as they slept, killing some forty of the young men. ["29-Sep-13: Sunday, bloody, bloody Sunday"]

    • Boko Haram executed three human bomb attacks on Christian churches in the northern Nigerian state of Kaduna in June 2012. At least 50 people were killed, according to the Red Cross. 131 were injured. This was “the third weekend in a row in which Boko Haram has carried out bombings on churches” [BBC] The report points out that “Kaduna lies on the dividing line between Nigeria’s largely Christian south and mainly Muslim north… Since 2009, it has targeted police stations and other government buildings, churches and schools. Hundreds of people have died in the attacks, and analysts suggest the group is trying to trigger clashes between Christians and Muslims.”

    • Boko Haram gunmen launched a terror attack on a Christian church in Gombe in January 2012, and managed to kill 6 and wound 10 of the Christian worshipers [source] (A UN agency has a detailed and much fuller timeline of Boko Haram atrocities and body counts here. It’s a truly ghastly tally.)

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb3ae)

  59. The killed either 1,200 or 2,000 people this year, 300 last Monday.

    They attack both boy’s and girl’s boarding schools. but the boys they kill and the girls they leave alive (at least at first) but kidnap.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb3ae)

  60. It is implausible to argue they are not closely connected, because both the Taliban and Boko Haram oppose polio vaccination.

    Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8)

  61. 61. …some can be and are disputed.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (3bb3ae) — 5/11/2014 @ 1:24 pm

    No, Sammy. Not when the religious authorities have agreed.

    Once the necessary criteria of consensus have been met, it is obligatory to obey the ruling and unlawful to disobey. Moreover, once consensus has been reached future scholars can never reopen the matter. It is an absolute ruling and it isn’t subject to reexamination, modification, or annulment.

    Among other actions that comprise leaving Islam is to deny a single verse of the Koran, a religious tenet which by scholarly consensus belongs to it, or to add a verse. Per Islamic law those who leave Islam, apostates, are to be killed.

    It’s not a debating society, Sammy.

    Steve57 (185ff3)

  62. Comment by Steve57 (185ff3) — 5/11/2014 @ 8:24 pm

    Once the necessary criteria of consensus have been met, it is obligatory to obey the ruling and unlawful to disobey. Moreover, once consensus has been reached future scholars can never reopen the matter. It is an absolute ruling and it isn’t subject to reexamination, modification, or annulment.

    That isn’t really the case, because in Saudi Arabia they re-opened the case of the earth being flat, (or maybe not quite like that, but more like it being an open question, so that undermines my point) something which in the first place was not universally accepted by Moslems – they are divided into at least 4 schools plus Shiism – but was limited only to the Islamic authorities backed by Saudi Arabia and their followers (to overrule he earlier determination however, they found it necessary to send 2 Saudi astronauts (I think there were two) on the space shuttle as witnesses, courtesy of the United States.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Aziz_ibn_Baz

    According to Lacey, bin Baz changed his mind about the earth’s flatness after talking to Prince Sultan bin Salman Al Saud who had spent time in a space shuttle flight in 1985. [25]

    However, Malise Ruthven and others state that it is incorrect to report that Ibn Baz believed “the earth is flat” ….

    …In his 1966 article, ibn Baz did claim that the sun orbited the earth,[31][32][33] and that “the earth is fixed and stable, spread out by God for mankind and made a bed and cradle for them, fixed down by mountains lest it shake”.[33]

    As a result of the publication of his first article, ibn Baz was ridiculed by Egyptian journalists as an example of Saudi primitiveness,[27] and King Faisal was reportedly so angered by the first article that he ordered the destruction of every unsold copy of the two papers that had published it.[24][33] In 1982 Ibn Baz published a book, Al-adilla al-naqliyya wa al-ḥissiyya ʿala imkān al-ṣuʾūd ila al-kawākib wa ʾala jarayān al-shams wa al-qamar wa sukūn al-arḍ (“Treatise on the textual and rational proofs of the rotation of the sun and the motionlessness of the earth and the possibility of ascension to other planets”). In it, he republished the 1966 article, together with a second article on the same subject written later in 1966,[34] and repeated his belief that the sun orbited the earth.[26] In 1985, he changed his mind concerning the rotation of the earth (and, according to Lacey, ceased to assert its flatness), when Prince Sultan bin Salman returned home after a week aboard the space shuttle Discovery to tell him that he had seen the earth rotate.[24][25]

    Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8)

  63. It’s not a debating society, Sammy.

    There is another point. Where does this apply?

    Where something actually is historical Islam.

    But the Islamic fundamentalists, as they used to be called, are anything but fundamental.

    They never used to claim that mass murder of unarmed civilians was a legitimate tactic of war. Unlike the idea of slavery, this is new.

    The idea of killing civilians as an act of war – that doctrine was invented by Max von Oppenheim during the first World War, who bribed Islamic preachers to propound it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_von_Oppenheim

    Oppenheim had been called to the Wilhelmstrasse from his Kurfurstendamm flat on 2 August 1914 and given the rank of Minister of Residence. He began establishing Berlin as a centre for pan-Islamic propaganda publishing anti-Entente texts. On August 18, 1914 he wrote to Chancellor Bethmann Hollweg to tell him that Germany must arm the Muslim brotherhoods of Libya, Sudan and Yemen and fund Arab exile pretenders like the deposed Egyptian Khedive, Abbas Hilmi….By the end of November 1914 the jihad fetvas had been translated into French, Arabic, Persian and Urdu.[15] Thousands of pamphlets emerged under Oppenheim’s direction in Berlin at this period and his Exposé declared that, “the blood of infidels in the Islamic lands may be shed with impunity”, the “killing of the infidels who rule over the Islamic lands”, meaning British, French, Russian, and possibly Dutch and Italian nationals, had become ” a sacred duty”. And Oppenheim’s instructions, distinct from traditional ‘jihad by campaign’ led by the Caliph, urged the use of ‘individual Jihad’, assassinations of Entente officials with ‘cutting, killing instruments’ and ‘Jihad by bands’,- secret formations in Egypt, India and Central Asia.[16]

    Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8)

  64. Among other actions that comprise leaving Islam is to deny a single verse of the Koran, a religious tenet which by scholarly consensus belongs to it, or to add a verse. Per Islamic law those who leave Islam, apostates, are to be killed.

    There is another problem: who has authority to make such rulings?

    Not to mention their broader definition of things that could cast someone out of Islam, which seems to mean any contradictions of their preachings, or violations of their decrees)

    There is a similair problem with individual jihad that’s why they actually swear loyalty in theory, to some ruler. (the lack of a claim to religious authority is admittedly a weak reed to rely on for peace, but it is the most obvious one)

    They are inventing their own religion, or adopting interpretations that originated with Imperial Germany, and that’s why they target Islamic preachers who dispute them.

    They also rely on claims of self-defense, (more being permissible in self-defense – in fact war not led by an established ruler would not be permissible without out) and lies about what their declared enemies have done or are doing.

    They need it all to justify their actions.

    Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8)

  65. 61. 66.

    “…some can be and are disputed.”

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (3bb3ae) — 5/11/2014 @ 1:24 pm

    Comment by Steve57 (185ff3) — 5/11/2014 @ 8:24 pm

    No, Sammy. Not when the religious authorities have agreed.

    Shorter: The worst things in fact are – in fact the Islamic terrorists really have no legs to stand on at all. The basic religious concepts they use were invented by Imperial Germany for use in World War I.

    They have to lie about their religion, and about the facts on the ground as well. Both. And claim to be acting in self-defense. And to have a ruler.

    Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8)

  66. the events in Chibook, make this even clearer;

    http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2014/05/11/the-day-obamas-presidency-died/

    narciso (3fec35)

  67. Well, a dead camel swinging from a palm tree wouldn’t make a good Foucault Pendulum especially with Mecca being so close to the equator.

    nk (dbc370)

  68. 71. Thanx for the link, PJM tends, with exceptions like this, to underperform.

    No doublecross, just abject carelessness.

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  69. 72. Nobody supports Boko Haram.

    The fighters in the Boko Haram trucks were asking directions the night of April 14, often from herders, and the herders were warning the Nigerian authorities, and probably giving them wrong directions. But they got to the school eventually, shortly after midnight, maybe 1 am April 15.

    (the night of Passover, an irrelevant datum I suppose, although maybe the full moon wasn’t. There was a lunar eclipse that night, though, but probably when it was still day in Nigeria.)

    Nigerian military lied to the school that reinforcements would come, but none ever came, and the defense of the school was left to 17 soldiers and local police who retreated when they ran out of ammunition. They were outnumbered because there were about 200 Boko Haram fighters (it is said)

    Then the Boko Haram people came, and got the girls out of hiding by claiming to be Nigerian military sent to evacuate them from Boko Haram.

    They only found out the truth when they started burning the school down and shouting Allahu Akbar.

    It sounds very sophisticated, except that they didn’t have anybody who had and could read a map, or any GPS.

    Come to think of it, maybe that was on purpose, because if they had a map or GPS, somebody might decide to defect.

    About 50 of the 276 or so girls escaped, and they also dropped possession along the way to leave a trail, like Hansel and Gretel. Two of the girls who escaped died of snakebite.

    Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8)

  70. Sammy @67, the rules of Islamic jurisprudence are exactly as I told you. Once the necessary criteria of consensus are met, and the scholars have agreed, the matter is closed never to be revisited.

    If you can find exceptions, well, congratulations. You have discovered that Islam is full of inconsistencies and internal contradictions. And you are not the first or the only one.

    As for your next comment, no, we are not talking about “historical” Islam. There is no evidence that any of the ahadith are actually the sayings or judgements of Muhammad. No doubt some are, but it’s impossible to tell which.

    So, again, we’re back to nothing more than consensus.

    Steve57 (e2022e)

  71. Surat an-Nisa 4:82:

    Then do they not reflect upon the Qur’an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction.

    Like the Earth being flat, I suppose in a 7th century society where the vast majority of people were illiterate (including Muhammad) it made sense to present as a “proof” of the divinely revealed nature of the Koran was that it didn not contain “much” contradiction. But that in and of itself is a failure of logic.

    It is based on the assumption that any text authored by human beings must contain “much” contradiction. Because if that isn’t the case, how does the supposed lack of “much” contradiction in the Koran prove anything about its divine nature? Answere: it can’t, if people can produce something equally internally consistent without divine inspiration.

    The fact is that the Koran is chock full of internal contradictions (I suppose it all comes down to the meaning of “much”). Muslim apologists will claim that in the original Arabic there is not a word of contradiction. But note, if you click on the link, the word “Sahih.” That means “authentic” in Arabic.

    I am not vouching for the authenticity of that particular source. I am noting that it is quite possible to find Arabic-to-English translations of the Koran, the ahadith, and even sharia law books that are authenticated by noted religious authorities. Including al Azhar university. You can’t find a higher authority in Sunni Islam than al Azhar.

    If we are to believe the Muslim apologists, then al Azhar is approving as authentic translations that are in fact deeply flawed. So the highest religious authorities in Sunni Islam don’t know what they’re doing. Except when they do.

    In other words, Sammy, quit going off looking for exceptions to the rules. Because you will find them. Nobody is surprised.

    Steve57 (e2022e)

  72. Comment by Steve57 (e2022e) — 5/12/2014 @ 7:32 am

    we are not talking about “historical” Islam. There is no evidence that any of the ahadith are actually the sayings or judgements of Muhammad. No doubt some are, but it’s impossible to tell which.

    So, again, we’re back to nothing more than consensus.

    What I mean by historical Islam is Islam as it was in 1850, or even 1950. There are some new things being preached and that here.

    I also know that it changed a couple of times. There was a time it was very open to outside knowledge. This is the so called golden age or whatever. Many Greek works were translated into Arabic in the 750-825 period approximately

    Then someone came along called al-Ghazili.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ghazali

    Al-Ghazali’s influence has been compared to the works of Thomas Aquinas in Christian theology, but the two differed greatly in methods and beliefs. Whereas al-Ghazali rejected non-Islamic philosophers such as Aristotle and saw fit to discard their teachings on the basis of their “unbelief,” Aquinas embraced them and incorporated ancient Greek and Latin thought into his own philosophical writings.

    He stopped it in the east about 1090, when he published and in the west (Apain) about 200 years later. Ronald reagan used to quote ibn Khaldum about the Moslem decline, (ibn Khaldun was about the last big writer) but this sortr of thing was the cause.

    Sammy Finkelman (bcd7c8)


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