Patterico's Pontifications

4/28/2014

Boehner Committed to Immigration Reform Vote

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:43 am



I’ve not commented yet on John Boehner’s “oooh, it’s too hard” comments mocking Republicans for not passing immigration reform. But I think it’s time I opened a thread for y’all on it. In the mad rush to end the GOP, this is a fairly significant step.

104 Responses to “Boehner Committed to Immigration Reform Vote”

  1. teh Partay of 5tOOpid is stupid.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  2. Lie a little, cry a little, let your poor party die brittle, that’s the glory of, that’s the story of the Grand Old Party’s death rattle.

    ropelight (84902e)

  3. What this (committed to a vote) could mean that, as with a few other things he consideed important, he’s willing to have a bill pass that doesn’t get a majority of the Republican caucus.

    This is one point however to note: The Democrats will not easily pass a bill that will eliminate this as an issue in the 2016 Presidential election.

    They are still trying to milk long settled issues, like equal pay for equal work – how muich more so here.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  4. Other than Steve Sailer and Senator Sessions, NOBODY is explaining that flocks of illegal aliens will destroy the quality of life for all middle class Americans by knocking out rungs on the wage ladder.There will soon be no middle class, merely an elite and an underclass to serve them, many dependent on Big Government. Blue collar union jobs will dissappear. It’s no a coincidence that working class people of all backgrounds are experiencing record unemployment at a time of unprecedented illegal immigration. But as Mayor Bloomberg told us, we need cheap nonunion illegal labor to keep golf greens verdant. Fore, GOP! Good luck in the coming one party big government. Lenin cackles as the Dumb Party sells the rope for their own hanging,and at a deep discount.

    Further Silicon Valley wants cheap legal immigrants from the near East to fill their job rather than snotnose American college grads. Foreigners will happlily stay on Google or Facebook’s campus 24/7 on the cheap, without annoying things like families and lives outside of The Company.And H1B visa holders won’t go looking for a new job. Why bother touting STEM education when these companies habitually choose to hire foreigners over Americans? But Zukcerberg and his ilk are COOL!

    Bugg (a7077e)

  5. The Democrats are coming under strong assault from the other side of the issue, and may feel a necessity to pass something.

    Today, former Manhattan (New York County) District Attorney Robert Morgenthau had an op-ed
    published in the New York Daily News:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/obama-assault-immigrants-article-1.1769345

    For almost two years, New York State has been an unwilling participant in a federal program called Secure Communities….It has failed miserably. Time and again, President Obama has promised to deport only the “criminals” and “gangbangers.” But numbers speak louder than words.

    A recent analysis by a policy group at Syracuse University found that just 12% of the deportees in 2013 had been convicted of a crime that ICE considers “serious.” What’s more, over 100,000 people were deported for either traffic violations or illegal entry, which is a petty misdemeanor.

    Last year was no fluke. Twenty percent of the more than 2.3 million people deported since the start of the Obama administration were convicted of nothing more than traffic or immigration offenses.

    That is because ICE uses a definition of “convicted criminal” so broad that it includes anyone who gets a speeding ticket and sends in a check to pay their fine. If that definition were applied to U.S. citizens, this country would be the 21st century’s Devil’s Island…

    ….In addition, there is a very real risk that the federal government has been using the fingerprints gathered through Secure Communities to find and deport immigrants who have no criminal convictions at all.

    … On Wednesday, Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter expressed concern that “in practice, many of those being detained and deported have no criminal background or have only committed misdemeanors.”

    To address this problem, Nutter signed an executive order that limits when Philadelphia will honor ICE’s requests to detain immigrants past their scheduled prison release date. Also this past week, sheriffs in nine Oregon counties announced that they would not honor the so-called “detainers.”

    Philadelphia joins a long list of localities that have resisted Secure Communities. Back in 2012, New York and Massachusetts tried to opt out of the program, but the Obama administration made participation mandatory. Since then, New York City and more than a dozen other localities have passed laws narrowing the scope of ICE detainers.

    Although these local efforts are admirable, they do not go far enough. The only way to prevent immigrants without convictions from being flagged in the Secure Communities database is to stop putting immigrants without convictions into the database.

    It is time for Homeland Security to recognize that Secure Communities hasn’t focused on criminal immigrants who endanger public safety and should be shut down. Just as important, the database of more than 32 million fingerprint records collected through Secure Communities should be purged of people who have not been convicted of any crime.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  6. 4. Comment by Bugg (a7077e) — 4/28/2014 @ 8:25 am

    Other than Steve Sailer and Senator Sessions, NOBODY is explaining that flocks of illegal aliens will destroy the quality of life for all middle class Americans by knocking out rungs on the wage ladder.

    The reaosn you won’t find anybody else saying this, is that there is no economist who will back up this assertion.

    What knocks out the bottom rungs is the minimum wage, not the presence of people willing to work at low wages.

    It’s no a coincidence that working class people of all backgrounds are experiencing record unemployment at a time of unprecedented illegal immigration.

    That’s not true. It’s gone down.

    without annoying things like families and lives outside of The Company.

    That’s only ifimmigratiopn doesn’t allow. The “reforms” that Republicans tend to tout would limit fsmily immigration.

    And H1B visa holders won’t go looking for a new job.

    Because they are not allowed to.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  7. No sense in voting anymore if we only have one party with two titles to choose from.

    Jim (72cbc5)

  8. Sammy-

    We have chronic unemployment and underemployment. It will not get better from any of this. It will get worse. Invariably more people at a lower rate of pay will lessen the wages of others persuing smilar jobs. But never let such crazy ass basic economic concepts like supply and demand cloud out your idiocy.

    What a recovery!

    What a f___ing fantasy!

    Bugg (a7077e)

  9. 7 Comment by Jim (72cbc5) — 4/28/2014 @ 8:37 am

    No sense in voting anymore if we only have one party with two titles to choose from.

    It’s only a policy that 70% or 80% of the American people support.

    Here is something a fewe people have noticed.

    http://www.infowars.com/unedited-video-shows-bundy-making-pro-black-pro-mexican-comments/

    Now, let me talk about the Spanish people. You know I understand that they come over here against our constitution [sic] and cross our borders. But they’re here. And they’re people – and I’ve worked side-by-side a lot of them……I’ll tell you in my way of thinking they’re awful nice people. And we need to have those people join us and be with us. Not, not come to our party.

    That is, not “not join” his group.

    It is not highlighted because some people are moreinterested in demonizing Cliven Bundy on a long dead issue, which he doesn’t actually support, rather than noting he supports them on a very live issue.

    But here is an exception, although he’s got to find a way to say Bundy is still bad bad bad.

    http://thekansascitian.blogspot.com/2014/04/cliven-bundy-racist-and-amnesty.html

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  10. Comment by Bugg (a7077e) — 4/28/2014 @ 8:47 am

    We have chronic unemployment and underemployment. It will not get better from any of this. It will get worse. Invariably more people at a lower rate of pay will lessen the wages of others persuing smilar jobs.

    Not true. Doesn’t happen. You won’t find one example in history like this.

    It may very slightly lower the wages of some people ghetting the exact same job, but overall, the more people in a city, the higher the wages.

    Every doubling of the population leads to a 15% increase in wages.

    But, as the Marxists say, this may work in poractice, but can it work in theory?

    But never let such crazy ass basic economic concepts like supply and demand cloud out your idiocy.

    That’s where the your problem is. The more people looking for work, the more jobs exist, because we are not talking about fitting pegs into holes, but joining a circle. So supply expands moreort less in line with demand.

    You seem to be endorsing the “lump-of-laborz” fallacy.

    What a f___ing fantasy!

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  11. I’m not joining a party that has messicans innit.

    carlitos (e7c734)

  12. The lumpenproletariat of laborz fallacy, that is.

    carlitos (e7c734)

  13. What a f___ing fantasy!

    No, the crazy economic concepts are yours, and when usually brought forthin argument, not endorsed consisently across the board, with all its resulting corralaries.

    I know there is a problem with what I said: It may work in practice, but does it work in theory?

    I think I can explain why it works in theory, too.

    As I said, the problem is with the notion of a fixed supply of jobs.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  14. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy

    In economics, the lump of labour fallacy (or lump of jobs fallacy, fallacy of labour scarcity, or the zero-sum fallacy, from its ties to the zero-sum game) is the contention that the amount of work available to labourers is fixed. It is considered a fallacy by most economists,[1] who hold that the amount of work is not static. Another way to describe the fallacy is that it treats the demand for labour as an exogenous variable, when it is not.

    Footnote 1 links to this:

    http://econpapers.repec.org/article/tafrsocec/v_3a65_3ay_3a2007_3ai_3a3_3ap_3a279-291.htm

    Abstract: The lump-of-labor fallacy has been called one of the “best known fallacies in economics.” It is widely cited in disparagement of policies for reducing the standard hours of work, yet the authenticity of the fallacy claim is questionable, and explanations of it are inconsistent and contradictory. This article discusses recent occurrences of the fallacy claim and investigates anomalies in the claim and its history. S.J. Chapman’s coherent and formerly highly regarded theory of the hours of labor is reviewed, and it is shown how that theory could lend credence to the job-creating potentiality of shorter working time policies. It concludes that substituting a dubious fallacy claim for an authentic economic theory may have obstructed fruitful dialogue about working time and the appropriate policies for regulating it.

    (They like to argue that nobody actually endorses the lumpoflabor fallacy. But it is often used to justify immigration quotas.

    If you endorse the lump of labor theory, you have to be against automation, and for featherbedding,
    and bemoan ATM machines and other job-eliminating technical advances (Yes, President Obama does endorse this fallacy in other contexts)

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  15. Another reason why the proportion of convicted criminals in the deportation pool has fallen is that ICE now counts all the border-crossovers they catch and deport at the border as “deportees”, a category that they were not counted in by previous administrations. In fact, they have had to out-reach to the Amnesty-community to explain this in an attempt to mend fences and to cut down the criticism from that community about the “high level” of deportations. Once that 88% is removed from the totals, the “internal apprehension and deportation” numbers are at their lowest levels in decades.
    Just another example of the stats from this administration being manipulated to lie to the American People.

    askeptic (8ecc78)

  16. Yeah. The issue is not supply and demand of labor. The issue is productivity. And a Mexican is worth five “chronically unemployed Americans” when it comes to that. A Polish highlander too. If you want to treat the unemployment problem, bring the factories back from Mexico and China. But you know what? You still won’t find “American workers” to fill the jobs and there will be a push for more immigration like there was in the ’60s and early ’70s.

    nk (dbc370)

  17. I can’t vote for Republicans without assurances that they have at least an inchoate intent to purge the corrupt and whorish BeohnerRyanCantorMcConnellMcCain (and et cetera) cabal.

    I just can’t. That includes the increasingly-weird Rand Paul.

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  18. The way to stop “illegals” from taking jobs from Americans is to finally enforce the workplace restrictions contained in Simpson-Mazzoli (1986), and tell the WSJ, the National Chamber of Commerce, and all the others to STFU!

    askeptic (8ecc78)

  19. As to The Speaker, many are finally questioning whether or not he will finally be making that move into the FL condo he purchased recently.

    askeptic (8ecc78)

  20. I feel sorry for the people still believing in the republican party.
    Your so Boooosh. And gullible.

    mg (31009b)

  21. 17. That’s where I’m at too. Obviously we are going down regardless, but that does not mean every crack whore and his/her pimp need to live large while we do.

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  22. If the libertarian candidate isn’t nuts, I’ll probably vote that way out of protest. It would be nice to see Gary Johnson in the debates.

    carlitos (e7c734)

  23. It’s important to reiterate for the drooling imbeciles at the Center and on the Left, this is not about the illegals themselves, the Beaners.

    No one wants to take food out of their urchins’ mouths. Yeah, it would be nice were we able to slow down the collapse in our standard of living, if only to continue supporting the Global Economy and the developing world.

    Amnesty will further erode everyone’s piece of the pie.

    The issue is, rather, that our failed government continues to enrich itself and ignore our benefit for no other reason than than their avarice.

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  24. “Beaners” is so LA. You never hear that in the midwest.

    carlitos (e7c734)

  25. To me what is most grating about Boehner, where does a “man” who is known for literally crying at damn near anything get off mocking others in the context of fear or weakness?

    WTP (fd3093)

  26. In the mad rush to end the GOP, this is a fairly significant step.

    That, and the insane notion currently being floated by the Right that they “can’t” repeal Obamacare, they can only “reform” it.

    Wrong is wrong; evil is evil. Good vs. evil makes it easy to make a decision. It also makes it easy to see that the “conservatives” aren’t interested in combatting evil; they are interested, tho’, in embracing it.

    If they sell out on these two things, it is time for the third party, Mr. P.

    J.P. (bd0246)

  27. 15.Comment by askeptic (8ecc78) — 4/28/2014 @ 9:27 am

    Another reason why the proportion of convicted criminals in the deportation pool has fallen is that ICE now counts all the border-crossovers they catch and deport at the border as “deportees”, a category that they were not counted in by previous administrations.

    Are you sure? I thought that was only non-Mexicans. Mexicans who go back ove rthe border are not considered deportees. Are they “deporting” moreMexicans now? Did they have some other way of classifying non-Mexicans before. There are supposed to be now a far greater proportion of people from Central and South America.

    Once that 88% is removed from the totals, the “internal apprehension and deportation” numbers are at their lowest levels in decades.

    That’s right, although they are complaining about the non-exceptions, and that the non-exceptions are not the way Obama characterizes them.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  28. 18. Comment by askeptic (8ecc78) — 4/28/2014 @ 9:35 am

    The way to stop “illegals” from taking jobs from Americans is to finally enforce the workplace restrictions contained in Simpson-Mazzoli (1986), and tell the WSJ, the National Chamber of Commerce, and all the others to STFU

    Talk about BIG government!

    And who is going to pass this law? Who actually thinks that is a good idea?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  29. 26. Comment by J.P. (bd0246) — 4/28/2014 @ 10:52 am

    That, and the insane notion currently being floated by the Right that they “can’t” repeal Obamacare, they can only “reform” it.

    That is supposed to be repeal and replace

    Democrats like to use the word reform here. By nbow using the word replace you have people now aiming to claim they want to reform the law.

    Replace means revising it from top to bottom, actually devising a totally different system.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  30. Gary Johnson is nuts and useless.

    I would like a third way, too. Where is it?

    SarahW (267b14)

  31. We knew this already – are there Democratic candidates who hope that by keeping onpraising Obamacare things like this will not become better known to the general public?

    http://www.bookwormroom.com/2014/04/27/another-obamacare-problem-not-all-the-people-in-the-operating-room-are-going-to-be-covered-by-your-policy

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  32. Comment by J.P. (bd0246) — 4/28/2014 @ 10:52 am

    You forgot: Stupid is as stupid does.

    askeptic (8ecc78)

  33. 28-
    SF, it already is The Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986)
    and the enforcement provisions are already in-place, they just have never been funded – because, as we all know, you can’t enforce a law unless you have the money to spend enforcing the law – as pressure from the usual suspects who need cheap labor, or reliable voters (though someone in this country would never, never, register to vote or vote because that would be breaking the law – though it never stopped the assassin of the Mexican Presidential Candidate shot in TJ by an illegal registered as a Dem in Wilmington or San Pedro CA).
    Damn SF, stop being stuck on stupid.

    askeptic (8ecc78)

  34. I’m sure if we spent months sitting in a circle ruminating on what government has done to improve out lives we could drag out of those in our midst, those Obsessed with Our H8rd for Social Change, what it is they fear about our focused anger, to wit, death and loss.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-28/crash-inevitable-spiral-vortex-debt-and-corruption

    “Why kick against the goads” fool?

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  35. “They like to argue that nobody actually endorses the lumpoflabor fallacy. But it is often used to justify immigration quotas.”

    Sammy – It is often used by you as a straw man to argue why ordinary rules of supply and demand of labor do not apply when discussing illegal immigration and that the larger labor supply we have the higher wages will go, because, MAGIC!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  36. The more I read SF, the more I wonder when NY legalized pot.

    askeptic (8ecc78)

  37. Never.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  38. They like to argue that nobody actually endorses the lumpoflabor fallacy. But it is often used to justify immigration quotas.”

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/28/2014 @ 12:29 pm

    Sammy – It is often used by you as a straw man to argue why ordinary rules of supply and demand of labor do not apply when discussing illegal immigration and that the larger labor supply we have the higher wages will go, because, MAGIC

    As the Marxist professors used to complain: This works in practice, but does it work in theory??

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  39. So, as technology means industry needs less and less unskilled labor each passing year, we should import more unskilled labor because….any idea here?

    Bugg (a7077e)

  40. Ross Perot from the grave could beat either side in elect the next dumb ass president.

    mg (31009b)

  41. I suppose in an unguarded moment one could trick me into admitting I’d prefer Willard to Jeb, but actually why not save the $1 salary, the redecoration of the WH, all those barflies’ wages?

    http://www.newsmax.com/newswidget/Schieffer-Face-the-Nation-Romney-Jeb-Bush/2014/04/28/id/568049/

    Turn the WH into a museum and let people tour it as a curiosity.

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  42. You know, its time to just swallow hard and admit it was a stupid idea.

    http://minx.cc/?post=348824

    Back to square one.

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  43. “If the libertarian candidate isn’t nuts, I’ll probably vote that way out of protest. It would be nice to see Gary Johnson in the debates.”

    – carlitos

    That would be awesome.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  44. You know, my expectations were pretty low already.

    You really didn’t have make a speech, seriously.

    http://minx.cc/?post=348820

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  45. “Boehner committed to immigration reform vote” appears to be invented out of whole cloth. No such phrase is in the link, nor is it hinted, implied, or foreshadowed.

    There is no bill, and there will be no vote this year.

    Since there have been no hearings, no mark-up sessions, no nothing, and nothing scheduled, I am surely correct. It takes more than hopeful statements from Diaz-Balart (the eternal immigration optimist, he) to claim otherwise.

    As one of my friends who covers the nuts and bolts of the House mentioned, “they don’t even have time to pass the RULE for an immigration bill this year, much less a bill itself.”

    But, immigration posts do get the fans riled up and out of their seats, don’t they? Shall we all chant “D-Fence! D-Fence!” or do The Wave?

    Estragon (ada867)

  46. If the libertarian candidate isn’t nuts

    Or if the sun starts rising in the west.

    Estragon (ada867)

  47. “As the Marxist professors used to complain: This works in practice, but does it work in theory??”

    Sammy – You are the person who keeps dropping it into conversations on this blog. Nobody has argued here that there is a fixed demand for labor. It is a pure straw man you trot out for some reason.

    The other argument you make about increasing the supply of labor actually increasing wages and employment is pure Krugmanite magical thinking. Taken to its logical conclusion it implies we should never have anything above a small structural level of unemployment. Clearly under the Obama Administration, with his war on business and the middle class and the worst recovery since the Great Depression, this theory is absolute bull crap.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  48. 47. Comment by Estragon (ada867) — 4/28/2014 @ 2:31 pm

    47.“Boehner committed to immigration reform vote” appears to be invented out of whole cloth. No such phrase is in the link, nor is it hinted, implied, or foreshadowed.

    There is no bill, and there will be no vote this year.

    There’s a bill that passed the Senate.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/28/us/politics/immigration-bill-clears-final-hurdle-to-senate-approval.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0&gwh=CD12DE0A6DA1D59047AA813B78150723&gwt=regi

    Sammy Finkelman (93900b)

  49. This a a wonderful wedge issue the Democrats have invented, and we are so falling for it.

    Kevin M (b11279)

  50. As I live this nightmare, the republicans have two faces, the establishment who took everyones money and ran on 86ing obamacare, but decided to cut and run, or should I say cash and carry on that. Or the tea baggers who do what they were elected to do. Which as we all know – is not a pretty picture, but are willing to try. New Party boys and girls, New Party.

    mg (31009b)

  51. Guys, how many times does this have to be said: the reason the Republicans in Congress didn’t 86 Obamacare is because WE LOST THE EFFING ELECTION. No matter how hard we try, we cannot pass laws if they have more votes. Threatening to collapse the entire monetary system in order to force them to vote for repeal is not a credible bluff.

    A lot of people seem to be in denial on this.

    It is also now too late to repeal. As it stands, now, Obamacare has been [badly] implemented and the status quo ante may be unreachable. Too many things are broken, and too many people have had their feet put in new cement.

    We will have some kind of health insurance entitlement, if only a life-long portability right, no matter how this turns out. What we can do is elect people who don’t naturally favor statist solutions and see how we can make this less awful. Removing subsidies might be a good start.

    Kevin M (b11279)

  52. Comment by Sammy Finkelman (93900b) — 4/28/2014 @ 4:29 pm

    Yet Bob Goodlatte has not scheduled that bill for any hearings before his Committee on the Judiciary.

    askeptic (8ecc78)

  53. “Boehner Committed to Immigration Reform Vote”

    We’ve heard this song before. Seeing is believing. I’m not holding my breath.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  54. Kevin M #54,

    Some of our friends will accuse you of being an Olympia Snowe supporter if you continue to make comments like that.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  55. BTW, I hate this whole immigration argument. It is so lose-lose and drives wedges between people who should be allies.

    There are some 15 million illegals, and about 3 or 4 million of them live within 50 miles of me. I encounter illegals hourly. It does not take Einstein to figure out that the status quo is unsustainable. You cannot have large, concentrated, numbers of people living outside the law, and keep the law.

    We are not going to ship them all home, nor are we going to make their lives as miserable here as they were in Mexico or Central America. So, there has to be a normalization. A legalization, but it also has to be something that makes additional immigration of this sort unpalatable.

    Calling any normalization “amnesty” is unhelpful. Calling it that is not only asinine, but it plays into the hands of those who actually want full amnesty, as it dilutes the opposition to full amnesty.

    What we should be doing is lining up behind a set of principles that is harsh but fair for people who want to live here permanently but have found there was no legal path possible (there hasn’t been for about 50 years).

    Any plan has to include:

    * A big fine. $20K per person or more, not dischargable. They can pay over time.
    * No citizenship ever for adults who came here illegally, with a military service exception.
    * Payment of any taxes owed, including social security and medicare taxes. Reconstruction or documentation of income tax returns. Again, payable over time at the mercy of the IRS.
    * Full biometric identification, including DNA.
    * A background check to exclude undesirables (crimes down to a second offense drunk driving conviction).
    * A good wall.

    But as long aw we sit and scream “NO AMNESTY EVER!!!!111!!!!” the people who want full amnesty and immediate citizenship are going to win. Because we cannot do nothing for very much longer and they have the only organized “solution.”

    Kevin M (b11279)

  56. Some of our friends will accuse you of being an Olympia Snowe supporter if you continue to make comments like that.

    Which part: the one about us losing the election?

    Kevin M (b11279)

  57. Kevin,

    Yeah, and all the rest.
    All one has to do is listen to Mark Levin and Sean Hannity lead the chorus about the reason we’re not repealing ObamaCare is due to cowardice and lack of principle !!!!!1!!, rather than, uh, due to the math of the Senate, as well as the math of overriding a Presidential veto.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  58. We could have defunded Obamacare, but I’m sure there was some greater priority,

    narciso (3fec35)

  59. No, the House could have refused to fund Obamacare and played chicken with the Senate over the continuing resolution as the government remained shut down and the people became more pissed off.

    The ONLY reason that the shutdown, even so short and partial as it was, did not leave the Republicans badly off was that Obama’s implementation of Obamacare was so completely horrid.

    I’m not even going to comment about the debt ceiling, which if not raised eventually, would have caused a giant financial crisis, with OBAMA deciding what huge parts of the government to shut. Bet you it would not have been the D of Ed.

    Kevin M (b11279)

  60. ES,

    I am no longer expecting that people can do the maths.

    Kevin M (b11279)

  61. I get it, there is nothing we can do, with a promise of more, McMorris Rogers’s message was garbled but Rand suggests we will just be ‘tax collectors for Obamacare’

    narciso (3fec35)

  62. I would hope we’d be spending-removers rather than tax-collectors.

    But Obamacare has already broken a lot of situations in its quest for the omelete. Breaking them a second time in short order to “go back to before” isn’t going to be a winning political move.

    Kevin M (b11279)

  63. By the way, I really do not think that the son of Ron Paul, with a Republican Congress, is going to be shy about cutting the living spit out of the budget. Ron was going to cut $1 trillion the first year. Rand isn’t that crazy, but $300 billion might be a good start. He’d need Congress, though.

    I am forever grateful that Obama and Pelosi were so incompetent and did not use their 60% majority in both Houses to greater effect. Consider what LBJ would have done. Or Billary.

    Kevin M (b11279)

  64. I go away for a day and KevinM is channeling Sammy Finkelman? A dangerous combination!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  65. Mr. M the coward boehnerpoofter whore republicans don’t even bother to make the case for the immigration policies they’ve been paid to promote. The just try and do it up all backroom style.

    I understand why Meghan’s cowardslut daddy is like that cause he got brainwashed something awful back in the Nam.

    But the rest of them don’t get a hall pass.

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  66. *They* just try and do it up all backroom style I mean

    I forgot the “y”

    m bad

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  67. Oh, for God’s sake:

    1. We know from experience that, if we make life miserable for the illegals, they will in fact, deport themselves. There is NO excuse for not deporting every one we get our hands on. Period.

    2. Studies have demonstrated the illegals, who are willing to work for less than minimum wage, not only depress wages, but contribute to the increasing gap between bottom and top wage earners, as those on the bottom never really go up.

    3. Absent a serious, massive and aggressive program to make our border bullet-proof, no law will work for any length of time.It is possible to get this done; there are any number of countries in the world with larger borders than ours that have secured their sovereignty. There is no excuse for our fecklessness in this regard.

    Strabo (81253b)

  68. the republican honey badgers don’t care Mr. Strabo

    they’ve been bought and paid for

    you know – like filthy whores what cause burning or irritation when you urinate

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  69. 62. Yeah, saving the Whigs’ azzes was totally crucial.

    Putting those few hundred thousand Federal workers
    back to work and paying for their inconvenience was a desperate need.

    The squeester was Jack Lew’s gimmick and the Thugs weren’t getting any credit for the savings anyway meanwhile the Military-Industrial Complex was freaking starving.

    Glad that can’t happen again.

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  70. the Military-Industrial Complex was freaking starving

    ?

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  71. 70. Actually, if that’s all you want Mr. Ogabe is half-way there already.

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  72. Meanwhile:

    A 20-count indictment unsealed Monday charged Rep. Michael Grimm, R-N.Y., with an alleged tax evasion scheme involving the concealment of more than $1 million in receipts from his New York restaurant where he employed an undisclosed number of undocumented immigrants. Grimm surrendered to federal authorities Monday and pleaded not guilty to charges of conspiracy, obstruction, mail fraud and perjury related to the alleged scheme involving his fast-food restaurant Healthalicious. But he said he would not resign his seat in Congress.

    Kevin M (b11279)

  73. 73. Sarcasm, m’boy. Memember Mr. Ryan cutting the vet’s pensions $8 Billion so we could have modern weapons in the field?

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  74. Not to mention how much Pentagon ammunition is being destroyed;

    narciso (3fec35)

  75. I’m a honey badger. Whaddayamean I don’t care?

    As evidence of my sincerity I present to you the Air Tractor corporation.

    http://www.airtractor.com/aircraft/802a

    …and the world’s most heavily armed crop duster.

    http://www.ainonline.com/sites/default/files/uploads/11-2013-4-airtractor-turret-bomb.jpg

    Steve57 (525198)

  76. It’s the best I can do next to an actual real life kielbasa.

    Steve57 (525198)

  77. Or bratwurst.

    Steve57 (525198)

  78. 1. We know from experience that, if we make life miserable for the illegals, they will in fact, deport themselves. There is NO excuse for not deporting every one we get our hands on.

    This will never, ever, happen.

    illegals, who are willing to work for less than minimum wage, not only depress wages, but contribute to the increasing gap between bottom and top wage earners, as those on the bottom never really go up.

    And your strategy is to make them even more willing to work for nothing. Guess what happens when they get green cards? They demand more money. If you really want to make it possible for Anglos to work construction again, make it hard for the contractors to find illegals.

    Kevin M (b11279)

  79. pensions are very retro

    not unlike circumcision

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  80. I go away for a day and KevinM is channeling Sammy Finkelman?

    It does give me pause. But Sammy is right on this. I hear a lot of whining but no workable solutions. People without workable solutions ALWAYS lose the debate.

    Kevin M (b11279)

  81. 82. Well pension is just the common term, Mr. 57 says its more like a retainer.

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  82. Comment by Kevin M (b11279) — 4/28/2014 @ 6:37 pm

    I am forever grateful that Obama and Pelosi were so incompetent and did not use their 60% majority in both Houses to greater effect.

    They wanted to pass bills without any Republican votes.

    Consider what LBJ would have done. Or Billary

    Bill Clinton also wanted to pass a bill (specifically a budget bill that raised taxes) with no Republican votes and a 1-vote margin in both houses, and he succeeded….in losing control of Congress in the 1994 election. Hillary care also helped.

    Clinton’s intention had been to “demonstrate” and argue that the Republican Party was more partisan than the Democratic Party – the opposite of the truth – but it didn’t work.

    He also wanted a tax increase just so he could say later the recovery and eventual balanced budget was attributable to his policies.

    Republicans were screaming it would hurt the economy, but if it did, it did relatively litle damage. Clinton knew anyway the Federal Reserve Board would cause the economy to recover.

    His 1993 bill, by the way, did not resemble the “economic plan” he ran on.

    Sammy Finkelman (f61675)

  83. sure

    you get your golden willy wonka ticket in a mere twenty years

    yeah I can see how people would stick around for that

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  84. 86. They make better money than me but I don’t give the ladies any smack and they adore me.

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  85. they should have a theme song

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  86. 86. I got the first problem handled.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/04/Americans%20top%20fin%20concerns.jpg

    Don’t retire. Make the employer pay for dragging the body to the funeral home.

    gary gulrud (e2cef3)

  87. Dunno if they have a theme song. Pretty sure they have a movie whether they like it or not.

    “Shoot straight ya bastards! Don’t make a mess of it.”

    Breaker Morant

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI7KJnRlsS4

    Steve57 (525198)

  88. when is the last time you had your nails done Mr. 57?

    you know – like by a professional

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  89. Tea partiers? Whatcha gonna do?

    Steve57 (525198)

  90. Thailand 1992, Mr. feets. Dunno if she was a professional like you mean a professional.

    Steve57 (525198)

  91. Comment by Kevin M (b11279) — 4/28/2014 @ 5:44 pm

    but have found there was no legal path possible

    Something a lot of people answering poll questions don’t know.

    (there hasn’t been for about 50 years).

    Since January 1, 1968 – 46 years – from independent countries in the western hemisphere.

    Longer, since the early 1920s, from everywhere else. With exceptions.

    Marriage and clergy have been exceptions all the time (to quota restrictions) We get into trying to determine if a marriage is real.

    Any plan has to include:

    * A big fine. $20K per person or more, not dischargable. They can pay over time.

    This is not a terribly big fine, as many people have student loans bigger than that. 20K is bigger than just about any smuggling fee, except maybe from China. But you want it or need it to be smaller , not bigger than a smuggling fee.

    This might very well make it into a bill, but only really if this payment resolved all back tax questions in 99% of the cases.

    Friends and family and charitable organizations (in some cases) will pay the fine.

    BTW, you really want people raising money and blaming Republicans for the fines?

    * No citizenship ever for adults who came here illegally, with a military service exception.

    This might be very well be part of a compromise bill, but of course, after 10 or 15 years another bill would pass granting it.

    Lindsey Graham set a term about as long as you could expect – something like 13 years after legalization – without another bill cutting it short. Make it forever, and it’ll be less than that.

    * Payment of any taxes owed, including social security and medicare taxes.

    An incredibly stupid and unfair provision that seems popular, which shows you how stupid Congressmen are.

    In practice, of course, truthfulness might be ignored. But that’s not really the way to go.

    If the obligation to pay back taxes is not treated with a wink-wink, it will destroy the rest of the bill.

    The truth is, the obligation to pay back taxes is a poison pill, either to the bill passing, or to the bill working.

    It’s unfair because:

    1) Taxes were not withheld from wages in many cases. (If back taxes are to paid they should be owed by the employer.)

    2) Legal residents have the “earned income tax credit” and when Congress sets income tax rates, they have that in mind.

    This might be made more palatable, by making every American also eligible for the tax amnesty.

    Reconstruction or documentation of income tax returns. Again, payable over time at the mercy of the IRS.

    Nobody is going to do it, unless they don’t owe money.

    There should be reconstruction of payroll records, so their social security accounts can be properly credited.

    * Full biometric identification, including DNA.

    This could scare off a few people. I’m not sure why this in there. This is done now to test family relationships, when that’s a point at issue.

    * A background check to exclude undesirables (crimes down to a second offense drunk driving conviction).

    Actually, right now there are hardship exemptions, which are granted unless there is reason to believe the person is still a criminal. Not clear why this should be made stronger. It creates unequal judtice under law.

    * A good wall.

    There really is no such thing. George W. Bush’s idea seemed to be a wall can work, if theer are legal alternatives. The amount of money a smuggler charges can be raised. To stop smuggling the fee for legal entrance should be set below the smuggling fee. Or you can give instant amnesty to anyone who provides details.

    Sammy Finkelman (f61675)

  92. 81. Comment by Kevin M (b11279) — 4/28/2014 @ 7:32 pm

    Guess what happens when they get green cards? They demand more money.

    And they leave farm work.

    Sammy Finkelman (f61675)

  93. 75. They didn’t indict him on any of the campaign finance violations. Of course there is a defense that he didn’t know what his contrubutor was doing. Grimm was somewaht close to Anthony Weiner.

    The FBI by the way is now investigating Bill de Blasio basically to see if he was bribed to be against the horses.

    Sammy Finkelman (f61675)

  94. Compassion for compassion’s sake.

    Compassion for compassion’s sake.

    Compassion for compassion’s sake.

    Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

    Your tears (both literal and figurative), John Boehner, make for a touching and beautiful sight.

    Mark (59e5be)

  95. Comment by Kevin M (b11279) — 4/28/2014 @ 5:11 pm

    As it stands, now, Obamacare has been [badly] implemented and the status quo ante may be unreachable. Too many things are broken, and too many people have had their feet put in new cement.

    The status quo ante was never very good anyway.

    Almost any reasonable change would be better than this scheme. But some would only eliminate one kind of problem.

    Whatever it is, to be good, it is going to have to:

    Make any kind of medical care affordable for anyone without:

    1) driving up prices

    2) eliminating market discipline on prices.

    3) have any third parties do any rationing.

    And there should not be any means testing.

    You have the difficulty that you cannot even give everyone the same amount of money (through a refundable tax credit) because everyone has different medical needs.

    We will have some kind of health insurance entitlement, if only a life-long portability right, no matter how this turns out. What we can do is elect people who don’t naturally favor statist solutions and see how we can make this less awful. Removing subsidies might be a good start.

    Sammy Finkelman (f61675)

  96. i need to go tomorrow

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  97. @3 Sammy: First of all, even if amnesty passes before 2016, the Democrats will still be able to campaign on that in the pro-immigration community in 2016. (“We’re the party that voted for immigration reform! Most of the Republicans voted no.”)

    Second, the Democrats are playing a long-term game here. By legalizing millions of illegal immigrants now, they can ensure a large net gain of Democratic-voting citizens for the future, as well as increasing the percentage of the population that supports increased legal immigration and amnesty for future illegal immigrants. So even if immigration becomes a lesser issue in the 2016 campaign, it makes the Democrats’ election prospects better in 2024, 2028, 2032, and into the future.

    Joshua (273b65)

  98. 100.Comment by Joshua (273b65) — 4/29/2014 @ 6:48 am

    3 Sammy: First of all, even if amnesty passes before 2016, the Democrats will still be able to campaign on that in the pro-immigration community in 2016. (“We’re the party that voted for immigration reform! Most of the Republicans voted no.”)

    Basically, that’s what I said.

    But it may be possible to stop it from being a killer issue, or from losing more votes.

    I actually said that the issue wouldn’t be resolved.

    When it comes to the past, it’ll go according to that candidate, not the party, if it is known (THE REPUBLICAN PARTY NEEDS TO BE DIVIDED, NOT UNITED, ON THIS ISSUE) and other issues geta chance to supercede it.

    Second, the Democrats are playing a long-term game here. By legalizing millions of illegal immigrants now, they can ensure a large net gain of Democratic-voting citizens for the future, as well as increasing the percentage of the population that supports increased legal immigration and amnesty for future illegal immigrants. So even if immigration becomes a lesser issue in the 2016 campaign, it makes the Democrats’ election prospects better in 2024, 2028, 2032, and into the future.

    Only if the Republican position stays the same. Republicans are losing Asian immigrants, whom they should get.

    Sammy Finkelman (f61675)

  99. Only if the Republican position stays the same.

    And, Sammy, so how should their position change?

    BTW, the reason a large majority of people in Mexico have long favored their version of the US’s Democrat Party is because, uh, there is an ongoing controversy there about cracking down on or changing laws regarding illegal immigration. Yes, uh-huh.

    Mark (59e5be)

  100. I’m impressed, I have to admit. Seldom do I come across a
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