Patterico's Pontifications

4/2/2014

Open Thread: Fort Hood Shooting

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 5:32 pm



I’m catching up. Use this thread to discuss it.

120 Responses to “Open Thread: Fort Hood Shooting”

  1. Ding.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  2. The door to the barn is being kept closed. The Shelter in place order is still in place.

    Sammy Finkelman (fb61e5)

  3. Crack reporter Sammy Finkelman is on teh scene. We can all exhale…

    Colonel Haiku (c4bd9a)

  4. Just reemphasizes why WENEEDSENSIBLEGUNCONTROL. Sirius u guise.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  5. ABC: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/shooting-incident-fort-hood/story?id=23166944

    Obama: His NSC team is “working with folks on the ground to determine exactly what happened and to ensure that everyone is secure.”

    The all clear has not been given.

    Sammy Finkelman (fb61e5)

  6. There must be a video that has caused this. No other rational explanation.

    Colonel Haiku (c4bd9a)

  7. Obama is probably busy giving shoutouts to his old buddies. Meanwhile, it’s a good thing trained soldiers aren’t allowed to carry weapons on post. Someone might get hurt. Luckily, there’s a big sign at the gate that says NO FIREARMS. That should work.

    Edoc118 (cddb25)

  8. Well, yesterday the FBI said in a widespread alert they were looking for someone specific by name that they feared might be planning jihad on a military installation. It will be interesting to see if the body of the “shooter” is that person or not. (Although they did say there might be more than just this one guy involved.)

    elissa (da4d84)

  9. A truck driver…

    Colonel Haiku (c4bd9a)

  10. Repeat… Ivan Lopez

    Colonel Haiku (c4bd9a)

  11. They’ve already announced “It’s not terrorism”. They ALWAYS say that. They said that after Hasan shot up Fort Hood, and he himself at his trial said he was a Jihadi.

    Why the hell are Army bases “no guns” zones? After Hasan shot up the place because no one else was armed, I would have thought they would have changed that, but evidently they didn’t.

    Every soldier should be permitted to carry a sidearm on base if he wants to.

    Steven Den Beste (99cfa1)

  12. Truck drivin’, fly tiein’ Ivan lopez

    Colonel Haiku (c4bd9a)

  13. I think it’s rich that a civilian SWAT unit has to be sent to an Army Base to deal with a violent confrontation.

    Did they disarm the SWAT guys before letting them in?

    askeptic (8ecc78)

  14. 8:15 pm. New York Times has 1 person killed but has 14 wounded (a number that came from Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas) chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, who had been briefed.

    NYT adds that Obama says he is “heartbroken” and some other words.

    Killeen Daily Herald: Name of shooter confirmed by Bell County Sheriff deputy.

    And his name is…..

    http://kdhnews.com/news/crime/fort-hood-on-lockdown/article_cff9d542-bab0-11e3-a685-001a4bcf6878.html

    Not there!

    Press conference to be given at Fort Hood at 8 pm (Central Time presumably)

    Sammy Finkelman (fb61e5)

  15. He ain’t even housebroken, Sammah…

    Colonel Haiku (c4bd9a)

  16. Comment by elissa (da4d84) — 4/2/2014 @ 5:43 pm

    (Although they did say there might be more than just this one guy involved.)

    They’ll say that every time.

    Sammy Finkelman (fb61e5)

  17. Sorry, no, I missed it.

    UPDATE: 7:30 p.m. Ivan Lopez, 34, has been identified as the Fort Hood shooter, according to a Bell County sheriff’s deputy outside of the Clear Creek gate.

    Sammy Finkelman (fb61e5)

  18. Did they disarm the SWAT guys before letting them in?

    Comment by askeptic (8ecc78) — 4/2/2014 @ 5:45 pm

    No, but they did have to undergo sensitivity training.

    Colonel Haiku (c4bd9a)

  19. CBS also identified him as Ivan Lopez 51 minutes ago.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/who-is-alleged-fort-hood-shooter-ivan-lopez/

    KWTX-TV: Active duty soldier. (so not the person discharged)

    http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/Active-Shooter-Situation-Reported-At-Fort-Hood-253635771.html

    Sammy Finkelman (fb61e5)

  20. If the joint chiefs were not all pussified they’d make demand changes re: the “no gun” zone, Steven.

    elissa (da4d84)

  21. Barack always expresses that he is “heartbroken” and sad when there is a Jihadist terrorist attack such as at Fort Hood, and then cautions lectures us about a rush to judgment, but he quickly expresses explicit anger and “outrage” for shootings or injustices perpetrated by white males, such as at Sandy Hook or Arizona.
    Five minutes after the Sandy Hook massacre or the Arizona Congresswoman shooting, he’s using his pen and phone to facillitate new legislation regarding gun control.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  22. I think it’s rich that a civilian SWAT unit has to be sent to an Army Base to deal with a violent confrontation.

    Low hanging fruit. Stalin’s army would go into battle under police supervision. Literally. The NKVD behind them aiming machine guns at them.

    nk (dbc370)

  23. As tragic as the events of today are, we have to put today’s fatalities in context with the far greater death toll caused by the cigarettes sold on military bases across this country and around the world, today.

    Chuck Hagel (8ce051)

  24. “One man with a gun can control 100 without one.”
    — Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

    Colonel Haiku (c4bd9a)

  25. Mr. Hagel has very weird priorities I think.

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  26. Heard this on radio at about 2:30 AM eastern. News at time said that FBI had arrested a suspect that was planning attack on Ft. Hood, that he had been discovered thru his facebook (?) account, placed in a psychiatric hospital, and had already had his enlistment cancelled by govt. agents, and that he had been scheduled to report for duty next week. This while Yoda was on way to hospital to get checked out for chest pains. (Heart attacks no fun to 900 year old Jedi Masters. Had one last year. Spent many hours in CDU surrounded by vampires out for Jedi blood while hooked to interrogator droids)

    Get home from hospital about 7:oo PM maybe few minutes earlier, (chest pains due to vessel constriction around 6 stints, healers change meds and report in weeks time for follow up) and pull up Fox News to see an attack was occurring with active shooter at Ft. Hood where suspect was supposed to report in. Now confused this old Jedi is! Is this same nut named Muhamhead that had converted to religion of pieces, or different nut?

    Yoda (557254)

  27. Let’s not be too quick to discount the impact that the Koch Brothers political contributions had in influencing today’s tragedy.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  28. If Netanyahu would have given Abbas everything he wants, this never would have happened.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  29. 4 dead, 14 wounded, 6 of them very critical.

    Colonel Haiku (c4bd9a)

  30. “Lopez had grown increasingly frustrated at having no success in signing up for ObamaCare.”

    Colonel Haiku (c4bd9a)

  31. does the 4 dead include the berserker killbot?

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  32. Apparently there are too many nuts for the FBI to keep up with. If that other Mohammed recruit guy is still out there and loose, I’d think the Feds still might be worried about another military base attack.

    elissa (da4d84)

  33. Yikes, Yoda. Take care of yourself! I know it’s hard but don’t let Obama ruining the country stress you out so much.

    elissa (da4d84)

  34. I just hope this doesn’t interfere with Barack’s plans to watch sports on television.
    Being President is hard.
    Or something.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  35. Yes, feets, the guy did save us taxpayers some money.

    Colonel Haiku (c4bd9a)

  36. WHAT’S THE BIG FREAKING DEAL?
    President I-is-the-Commander-in-Chief has already (NOT kidding) gone off to attend a fundraiser, so let’s all move along, m’kay?

    Icy (14327b)

  37. we’re not mad as Hell
    and we will be taking it
    well into future

    Colonel Haiku (c4bd9a)

  38. What we’re getting right now is, from past experience, 90% BS. It’ll take at least a couple of days for some kind of coherent narrative to develop.

    nk (dbc370)

  39. This is why we need more NSA and Justice Department surveillance into the private email and telephone communications of Joe Jones in Wichita, Kansas.
    Or something !

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  40. elissa,

    Sigh! Two Republics now, to evil emperors Yoda has lost. The shroud of the dark side has fallen again! Tired of the struggle am I! But humor Yoda can sometimes find! Daylight savings time not only causes rise in heart attacks, but can also be hazardous to others up to nefarious deeds.
    Daylight Saving Time Mistake May Have Caused Dublin Car Bomber to Blow Himself Up

    Yoda (557254)

  41. 1st Bomber: What time is it?
    2nd Bomber: 7:00 PM Daylight Savings Time
    1st Bomber: Daylight Savings Time? OH SH!T!!!!!!

    Yoda (557254)

  42. Two Palestinian women meet in the market place:
    Yasmin: Salaam aleikum, Fatima. And how is your lovely family?
    Fatima: Aleikum salaam, Yasmin. We’re all fine, hamdullilah, except for my oldest son Hussein. He martyred himself in a suicide bombing in Bethlehem. And how is your family?
    Yasmin: The same, hamdullilah. My oldest son, Ali, martyred himself in a suicide bombing in Jerusalem.
    Fatima: They blow up so fast.

    nk (dbc370)

  43. Fatima: They blow up so fast.

    Comment by nk (dbc370) — 4/2/2014 @ 7:08 pm

    Too funny it is! Same thing said by Borgo about his dolls!

    Yoda (557254)

  44. So Roman Catholic?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  45. Is it cheating for me to guess now that we have a name?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  46. When I saw the title of the post I thought there might be some technical difficulty, resetting the blog to 2009.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  47. Has Brian Ross checked whether someone in the Tea Party is named Ivan Ross? I think he should.

    Gerald A (bfbd30)

  48. I mean Ivan Ross Lopez.

    Gerald A (bfbd30)

  49. 21. If the joint chiefs were not all pussified they’d make demand changes re: the “no gun” zone, Steven.

    Comment by elissa (da4d84) — 4/2/2014 @ 5:57 pm

    You talking about me?

    By the way, Dixie Gun Works is having one heck of a sale.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  50. no. Steven Den Beste @12

    elissa (da4d84)

  51. this is the third incident on a military installation in a year, the second in a week,
    besides the tragic casualties, this is the bigger issue,

    narciso (3fec35)

  52. Unhinged soldier chooses symbolic place of least resistance to mete out his justice. How is this new or significant?

    How does this merit so much energy and attention?

    One dog bites a few men. Big whup.

    Wanna be outraged? Check out the consequences for the Fed’s actions, the unreal decimation of our Navy, the complete upending of the Executive’s approach to justice. Millions upon millions will pay severe prices for the above.

    Look! Squirrel!!!!

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  53. Ed from SFV:

    I think your comment is callous. People died. That is not a distraction. That is reality.

    If that is what you really think, you may need to step back for a bit.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  54. http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/02/us/fort-hood-shooting/

    No known motive. Shooter killed himself.

    No details but had some kinds of issues – there was something going on with him – probably, in a nutshell, people trying to run his life not to his satisfaction, and he may have been making trouble for other people.

    And now probably his life was falling apart, or threatening to, or so he believed, so he took revenge on the world.

    Sammy Finkelman (fb61e5)

  55. Why are these few deaths more deserving of the rapt attention of the entirety of entirety?

    Believe me, I hate when evil wins like this. But, we, collectively, had a spot-on warning of what happens when we castrate our military posts. Now, evil happens precisely in the same spot due to our collective cowardice to respond appropriately.

    No impeachment of a C-I-C who specifically refused to arm and protect that post? Americans have spoken by the indifference displayed on our brave soldiers, seamen, airmen, marines and coasties everywhere. The hell with this mass convulsion of faux concern.

    I bitterly resent the vast majority, particularly the media who are cashing in on this tragedy, who attempt to deflect serious change and refuse to accept responsibility for their willful ignorance.

    For anyone who is reading this and has tried to effect change, this most certainly does not apply.

    The victims today, in no way, deserved this penalty. Those in uniform, however, did sign up for this. They do deserve our profound thanks.

    Just don’t ask me to lose my sh*t over a few deaths in a war in which many thousands have sacrificed, and millions more will yet pay. Not whilst we refuse to take basic actions to prevent more carnage. THIS, is the true tragedy.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  56. Oops, I failed to mention our absolute refusal to fully fund medical and mental care for our heroes who come home. HERE is the tragedy.

    Then we collectively express horror. Screw that.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  57. My brother is stationed there. From what I can tell he and his family are fine – I’ve spoken to both him and his wife – but he’s working in the hospital, so he’s … busy.

    aphrael (5cffd4)

  58. Ed’s points, while not necessarily brought forth in the most diplomatic of manners, are generally well founded, IMHO.

    today was eminently preventable, yet NO ONE in the chain of command did anything to do so. the picture i saw of this maggot showed him as being in the “Warrior Battalion” back in 2010.

    it’s now 2014: he should have been discharged or otherwise had his case resolved long before this.

    further more, the Army Leader5hit, such as it is, should have borrowed a backbone from somewhere and insisted that the idiotic “bases are gun free zones” reg be changed, and resigned en masse if refused.

    but that would take real moral courage, and today’s Army, at least at the top, carries their ethics around in their pocket on a card labeled “Army Values”, at the same time they are cheating on their spouses, abusing their subordinates otherwise making a mockery of said values.

    of course, that’s no different than the behavior, public & private, of the NCA, so the public that tolerates this sort of thing at the top gets what it has every reason to expect: preventable tragedies.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  59. Yes, it is a tragedy for those involved, and a tragedy for the nation for the realities of things that are not done differently.
    And it is a problem that the press picks and chooses to push stories according to their propaganda goals.

    It was interesting that yesterday Hewitt was on while this was developing, and he had guests on who are crowdsourcing a movie about Gosnell, “the greatest serial killer in American history” who is unknown by so many people in the US because his crime is problematic for the pro-abortionists.
    (If interested in helping out, I think there is a website Gosnellthemovie or such where you can go).

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  60. Yes, it’s the same fellow, who has shown the lies of Gasland, and consequently the truth about fracking.

    narciso (3fec35)

  61. Anybody need a spare Percheron?

    http://irongaitpercherons.com/rescue-community/available-horses

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  62. This had little to do with the Hassan killing. It was reported that Lopez suffered from mental illness (and never saw combat) while Hassan voiced a motive of jihad.

    AZ Bob (533fbc)

  63. Having to call in an outside law enforcement agency, disarmed soldiers running for their lives and “sheltering”… what is wrong with this picture?

    the pussification of our armed forces continueszzzzz

    Colonel Haiku (3b8a25)

  64. There was a reason why the Treaty of Versailles forbade Germany to have conscription, and to have minimum terms of enlistment of 12 years for soldiers and NCOs and 25 years for officers. Standing armies are [not nice]. The best armies are composed of citizen soldiers who take up arms as needed and return to their civilian occupations when the emergency is over.

    Abrams had the right idea of a professional core with trained, ready reserves. Unfortunately, it was never properly implemented.

    nk (dbc370)

  65. If this guy had been allowed access to his M4, the carnage would have been much worse. It’s a good idea not to allow soldiers to go armed outside a combat zone. A very, very good idea. In ancient Rome, soldiers entering the city armed carried the death penalty and you cannot call the Romans pussies.

    nk (dbc370)

  66. So. His goal was to kill himself and taking others with him was a bonus? Yup, that’s the guy I want with a machine gun and hand grenades inside a US military base. Do you guys want to consider that the “pussifiers” know what kind of people they’re recruiting and that’s why they restrict their access to weapons?

    nk (dbc370)

  67. no, they assume soldiers are de facto untrustworthy,

    narciso (3fec35)

  68. The Romans also skinned people alive among other questionable activities, not so sure they are to be emulated, nk.

    Colonel Haiku (3b8a25)

  69. When this policy took shape…

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/baseguns.asp

    Colonel Haiku (3b8a25)

  70. no, they assume soldiers are de facto untrustworthy,

    So did the Founders. That’s why the military is under civilian control.

    nk (dbc370)

  71. Well, it’w diversity Thursday over at CDR Salamander.

    http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/2014/04/diversity-thursday.html

    A Fullbore Friday from a couple of weeks back.

    http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/2014/03/fullbore-friday_21.html

    We always remember Pearl Harbor – but that second week of DEC 1941 war was breaking out all over the Pacific. Something different for Pearl Harbor. Capt. Colin Kelly Jr., early leadership example.

    The war exploded all over the Pacific that day, and in the focus on Hawaii

    Captain Kelly ordered the crew to bail out while he still had control of the doomed bomber. Fire began to engulf the flight deck. SSgt. James Halkyard, Pfc. Willard Money, and Private Altman went out the rear. Navigator 2d Lt. Joe Bean and Sergeant Levin, after a time-consuming struggle, pried open a stuck escape hatch and took to their chutes.

    The nose of the aircraft was now an inferno. Colin Kelly remained at the controls as copilot 2d Lt. Donald Robins moved to the upper escape hatch. At that moment, the bomber exploded, hurling a badly burned Robins clear of the aircraft.

    The B-17 crashed about five miles from Clark Field. Colin Kelly’s body was found at the site. The early report of his heroism, which inspired a nation in shock, is in no way diminished by the actual events of that December day in 1941. Alone and far from friendly territory, he attacked and damaged a heavily armed ship, then sacrificed his own life to save his crew.

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/17/22336496-japanese-wwii-soldier-who-refused-to-surrender-for-29-years-dies?lite

    There’s something to be said for never giving up.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  72. No, flaying was not a Roman punishment, Haiku.

    nk (dbc370)

  73. Re: Steve’s pdf file.

    Whatever happened to good old fashion firewatch?

    I remember walking a beat around the chow hall. Helmet, armband, sidearm, general orders.

    No special training. Everybody took a turn at the rotating shift.

    What a stark example of incompetence from momjeans.
    Institutional, perpetual, incompetence.

    If anything he has gotten worse at his job in the last five years.
    Didn’t think that was possible.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  74. I’ve never said I never done it. I haven’t.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  75. I heard Col. West say this morning that the base commander can make a security protocol where selected officers can be approved to carry a sidearm, and I think he said that they actually can do that now, if they wanted to, but it would mean a 3-star would need to make a choice that DC would frown upon.
    I only report, I know nothing firsthand on this.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  76. Steve57, looking forward to seeing “Unbroken”, hopefully it will come out while Zamperini is still alive.

    BTW, Charles Koch wrote an editorial in the WSJ today.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  77. I’m curious, MD. Do you think I consider myself in the same league as Zamperini . Or Captain Kelly?

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  78. Not sure why you ask that, Steve57. I didn’t mean anything negative by my comment. I have not seen anything that makes me think you consider yourself in their league or not, just that you like to appreciate the exploits of people who have done heroic things.
    I am blown away when I read about the exploits of such people. Not to minimize at all what Kelly did, but when people like Zamperini are persistent over a period of time to endure what he did, I find that even more amazing. Not only did he act bravely and not give up “today”, but again tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow… but that’s my very limited take on it.

    But I take heart from an interchange between Corrie ten Boom and her father when she was young. He said he didn’t give her her train ticket until it was time to board the train because she didn’t need it until then, and likewise God often does not give us what we need until we need it, be it courage, wisdom, etc. I am sure she never dreamed she would need one day to survive Nazi camps, but she did.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  79. I’m not sure why I asked.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  80. I just did.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  81. I’m sure he doesn’t, but it’s good to acknowledge the heroism of yesteryear, as with the heroes of today like Mike Murphy, in Afghanistan

    narciso (3fec35)

  82. “A woman’s guess is much more accurate than a man’s certainty.”

    ―Rudyard Kipling

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  83. The military claims that changes thjey made after the 2009 shooting kept down the death and injury toll, which may be true.

    He was an Iraq war veteran, as most soldiers who served when he did probably are, and was claiming post traumatic stress syndrome.

    He was married. There may have been a domestic dispute that preceded this, and there may have bene an argument at the base.

    If there was both I would say the argument with another soldier at the base was contrived and he did it because he knew something would happen to him because of whatever he had done to or threatened to do to his wife.

    Both would mean that he felt he had crossed somew kind of line, and now that he had, life was over, and any killigs would be a freebie (him not being restrained on moral grounds.)

    And also, even if he ahd contemplated it for a while, when he woke up that morning he was planing to do that that day.

    Sammy Finkelman (b66da2)

  84. …heroism of yesteryear…

    Who’s talking about that?

    http://hamptonroads.com/2010/04/downed-navy-pilot-honored-norfolk-sacrifice

    http://hamptonroads.com/2010/04/downed-navy-pilot-honored-norfolk-sacrifice

    Had a lesser pilot been at the controls of Bluetail 601 last Wednesday, there might have been four memorial services this week instead of one.

    But Lt. Miroslav “Steve” Zilberman was one of two pilots in the cockpit of the E-2C Hawkeye as it returned from a mission over Afghanistan, heading toward the aircraft carrier Dwight D. Eisenhower in the North Arabian Sea.

    The Ukrainian-born junior officer had distinguished himself during three years with Carrier Airborne Early Warning Squadron 121. He knew the plane – and its training manual – inside and out.

    So after one engine lost oil pressure and then failed completely; after one propeller couldn’t be adjusted to balance the plane; after it was clear that there was no way to safely land, Zilberman ordered his crew to bail out….

    I’m feeling very small right now.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  85. If the Koch Brothers hadn’t been donating money to Repulicans, this shooting at Fort Hood never would have happened.
    Or something.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  86. Er, I mean, Republicans !

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  87. Happy 92nd birthday to Doris Day, born on this day in 1922.
    She’s a great singer, actress, Republican, and animal welfare activist.

    And sadly, her son, record producer Terry Melcher, was the intended target of the Charles Manson Gang the night they murdered Sharon Tate and others.
    (Melcher had recently sub-let his house to Roman Polanski and Sharon Tate, unbeknownst to Manson & Co. at the time.)

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  88. OT:
    Shift from heroes to “Dirty pigs”, as a friend of mine from college would say.
    I just heard Joseph diGenova (husband of Victoria Toensing) interviewed by Dick Morris, letting the cat out of the bag about a “little” conflict of interest that Congressman Mike Rogers, chair of House Intelligence Committee has…
    are you ready for this?
    are you sure?
    HIS WIFE was CEO of the company providing security at Benghazi at the time of the attack.
    (see here: http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2014/04/does-mike-rodgers-have-his-heart-in-the-morell-benghazi-hearing-today-2610240.html )

    So, now perhaps we know why the Benghazi investigation has gone so slow, why he is retiring from the House, and why his behavior regarding the Morell testimony yesterday was so atrocious that I think he is being removed as Committee chair.

    Let it be said, we do not cover up for the indecent among us.

    Apparently he is going to do some job as a radio talk show host to be “a voice of reason among the conservatives now lacking” (his claim according to Morris).

    Mr. Morris said that perhaps he will try to be the first caller on the new program.

    Ok, you folks who are better at this than I, run with it.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  89. MD in Philly,

    What difference, at this point, does it make ?
    Or something.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  90. OT:
    Shift from heroes to “Dirty pigs”, as a friend of mine from college would say.

    How can anything be off topic on an open thread?

    But, that said, I waded through the entire 137 indictment and I came away liking Raymond “Shrimp Boy” Chow a lot better than Senator Leland “Uncle” Yee.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  91. With Shrimp Boy you knew what you were getting.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  92. Imagine if Sam Dash’s chief counsel had gone to work for Howard Hunt’s Mullen and co, which was run by Bob Bennett, the future RINO from Utah

    narciso (3fec35)

  93. Dude, that’s way too much name dropping for me. I can’t keep up the pace.

    If you think about it, hoist one or two for Miroslav.

    Them, and those like them.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  94. IMRA: Weekly commentary April 3, 2014

    Against releasing murderers from prison, notes Palestinian position.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  95. Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 4/3/2014 @ 3:02 pm

    Imagine if Sam Dash’s chief counsel had gone to work for Howard Hunt’s Mullen and co, which was run by Bob Bennett, the future RINO from Utah

    Sam Dash went to work for Kenneth Starr – as an ethics counselor or something – and I think he was secretly informing Bill Clinton of what was going on. he did know. he always blurted out that Monica Lewinsky had said it was not sex in his grand jury testimony, until catching himself because he realized he had not been officially informed of that.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  96. Bob Bennett, the future RINO from Utah

    Bob Bennett probably had advance knowledge of the Watergate break-in. He had recruited a spy, Tom Gregory, in the McGovern campaign headquarters.

    Tom Gregory was supposed to plant a bug there. All bugs or big attempts failed.

    Finally, G. Gordon Liddy decided to send in other people. Liddy was diverted from that operation by being told by John Dean and Magruder to plant a bug at the DNC.

    John Dean probably wanted him to get caught, but I don’t know how he arranged it. Maybe it was just hope, or a method that would be sure to be spotted.

    Anyway after bugging the DNC the burglars were supposed to go to the McGovern campaign headquarters, but they never got the chance.

    Book excerpt from E Howard Hunt book

    Tom Gregory quit his job the day before the Watergate break-in.

    I think he may have been lying. Maybe he was not surprised by another employee. This kind of snag happened more than once.

    He may have been a double agent.

    That is, some people in the McGovern campaign knew about him, and Liddy, and may have had advance knowledge of the Watergate break-in.

    Which leads to the thought:

    President Nixon did not have advance knowledge of the Watergate break-in, but President Clinton maybe did!

    Clinton tried to use Watergate to get into Congress, but failed, even though Hillary Rodham, I think, had made some false transcripts of the tapes, making Nixon say such things as “I want you all to stonewall it.” She wasn’t assigned to that job, but John Doar worked it out that she would do some when others were off.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  97. Well, this sucks. I didn’t know until just know that there was another Fort Hood Shooting. I thought we were still talking about the last one.

    You know, back in the 90s the CNO had a policy whereas sailors could bring their personal weapons on base so we could use the ranges. Maybe we should take another look at that.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  98. Someone planted a bug up Sammy’s behind…

    Colonel Haiku (ac19af)

  99. Sammy,

    Do you think we should discount the rumours that the Koch Brothers might have had a hand in the Watergate break-in ?

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  100. 34-year-old Ivan Lopez was initially angry that he was not given permission to attend his mother’s funeral, but had been given a 24-hour pass to attend. A friend said Lopez also mentioned he had an argument with someone at the base prior to the shootings, which killed three people and wounded 16 before he took his own life Wednesday.

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/fort-hood-gunman-devastated-mother-death-article-1.1744315#ixzz2xrw21aOx

    I have never been in my life in a position to turn down somebody’s leave to attend their mom’s funeral.

    Anybody?

    In my day we got the Red Cross message and things were pretty much on automatic.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  101. Unless of course somebody was a disciplinary case.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  102. This Ivan Lopez person believes that a funeral of a loved one is such a sacred event, that he deliberately created the necessity for several more funerals.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  103. The thing is I know you’re right.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  104. http://www.defense.gov/pubs/pdfs/DOD-ProtectingTheForce-Web_Security_HR_13Jan10.pdf

    Lessons from Fort Hood.

    I look forward to the next report.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  105. Rear echelon goldbrick. Joined the Army at age 27 or 28; almost six years in and still a specialist. Never saw combat, was passing out sunblock foe four months in Iraq, and from all indications looking to retire on a service-related disability. Come on.

    nk (dbc370)

  106. You got me beat, nk.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  107. Well maybe he ran across an IED, when he was on convoy duty, unlikely but possible

    narciso (3fec35)

  108. It still sucks. People talk about it.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  109. Yes, clearly someone dropped the ball, and those on base were defenseless,

    narciso (3fec35)

  110. I didn’t know this guy on convoy duty. I didn’t run across this guy long enough to solve any of his problems.

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  111. As with Nidal Hasan, initial claims of motivation are to be taken with a grain of salt,

    narciso (3fec35)

  112. All I saw was “logistics and support” too.

    nk (dbc370)

  113. 102. Comment by Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 4/3/2014 @ 4:30 pm

    Do you think we should discount the rumours that the Koch Brothers might have had a hand in the Watergate break-in ?

    That’s an anachronism.

    Charles Koch writes that he didn;t get involed in politics – contributing anyway – until about ten years ago.

    Bill Clinton had an impirtant role in the McGovern campaign – he managed the campaign in Texas – more important, he must have had a mentor.

    Given his record afterwards, and his background, he might be one of the people who knew about the spy that The Nixon campaign had placed in the McGovern campaign, and maybe about the Watergate break-in before it happened, if that’s the way it happened. Tom Gregory always failing to plant a bug, quitting the day before the watergate break-in and Liddy’s efforts to plan a bug independently of Tom Gregry being diverted by this assignment to bug the DNC is pretty interesting.

    Probably nobody has stumbled on the exact truth because then all the pieces would fit.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1534942/posts goes into some of this.

    I think his theory is that McCord wanted to get caught.

    Sammy Finkelman (0c3646)

  114. Good Allah, it was a joke, we all know it was the Brotherhood of the Bell,

    narciso (3fec35)

  115. So this is how it’s going to play.

    SOLDIER ON AMBIEN SNAPS

    Steve57 (a017ec)

  116. No it has to be Ptsd Iraq, W, ‘eleventy’

    narciso (3fec35)

  117. 117. I know it was a joke.

    I can see the premise behind the idea that MCcord didn’t want to do it – he had other more long-term clients, but getting caught doesn’t like like agood way out of it. he went to jail. As for not telling the whole storty well that could be because much of what he did (for other people) was illegal.

    That (the idea that McCord tried to get the burglars caught) needs to be looked at to see if it is consistent with the facts.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)


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