Troll TimB Infests Tom Woods’s Blog, Provides Excellent Example of How the Left Tries to Shut Down Speech
On his last day on this Earth, Andrew Breitbart tweeted this (h/t Brandon Darby):
I'm far less political than anyone can imagine. I am just hyper-vigilant about left's instinct to shut down debate. PC is bad. @MaxD17
— AndrewBreitbart (@AndrewBreitbart) February 29, 2012
I would normally not devote a post to creepy now-banned troll TimB, but his behavior in attacking me and libertarian Tom Woods recently is a wonderful example of an attempt to shut down speech, and is worth highlighting as Exhibit A in what the left would do if given total power.
The contretemps appears to have started with my recent post defending Judge Andrew Napolitano, and citing a Tom Woods video to do so. TimB starting tweeting a bunch of nonsense at me, and then turned his ignorant fire on Woods:
@ThomasEWoods Man, it's old, but it sure stands the test of time, eh, secessionist? Incorrect History http://t.co/VTiUH6VVzs
— Timb116 (@timb116) March 18, 2014
“Secessionist”! Thus ends the argument! Label your opponent and dismiss him. (By the way, Tim’s link goes here. I challenge you to read that, and Woods’s response, and not conclude that Woods shredded Max Boot.)
If by “secessionist” TimB means “one who believes that states have the right to secede” then Woods is absolutely guilty. And so am I. In fact, I have enjoyed talking about secession on this blog for several reasons.
First, as I have learned more about the founding of this country, I have become convinced that states retained the right to secede.
Second, as my frustration with the oppressive and reckless federal government increases, I search for solutions other than sitting around waiting for the fiscal collapse. This one — saving the parts of the country that can be saved and breaking off from the United States — is not particularly realistic, but the option of doing nothing is so unthinkable that unrealistic options seem worth discussing.
Also, I just enjoy tweaking the TimBs of the world. To me, the idea that the federal government is the perfect sized political unit, and that a smaller political unit is SIMPLY UNTHINKABLE!!!!, is absurd. Yet one cannot discuss the concept without being called a racist, or a “Neo-confederate.” Witness:
@Patterico you listen to a podacast from Tom Woods, member of League of the South? R U a neo-confederate now? espouse Nullification? #crazy
— Timb116 (@timb116) March 18, 2014
And, since it’s TimB, there have to be lies:
@ThomasEWoods @Patterico oh, Tom, you flatter me. Patterico is the convert to nullification, not me. He's also a pal of Stacy McCain!
— Timb116 (@timb116) March 19, 2014
I am not, in fact, a “convert to nullification.” In fact, I recently wrote a friend about the topic, and after speaking about the things I liked about the doctrine and the things I hated about it, I concluded: “I’m not sure how I feel about state nullification” of federal laws thought to be unconstitutional. I haven’t ruled out support for it, but it strikes me as posing a threat to the rule of law. My plan is to eventually read Woods’s book on it and make up my mind.
TimB’s behavior is a wonderful performative of the left’s behavior: name-calling, dismissiveness, and dishonesty — all in an effort to shut down debate. TimB didn’t draw the line at Twitter, either. He infested one of Woods’s blog post comment sections (sorry, Tom!) thus prompting Woods to write a whole post about TimB’s comment behavior, titled Internet Derangement Syndrome Strikes Again.
Tom, just ban him, like I do.
Anyway, the perfect response to folks like TimB is this video, which Woods created some time back as an amusing vehicle for his arguments in favor of state nullification of federal laws. It is called “Interview with a Zombie.” In case you don’t get it, TimB is the zombie in our example. Enjoy:
I showed it to my kids and they cracked up when the zombie says: “Slavery?” Watch it. It’s worth your time.
I hope I am doing my small part to carry on Andrew’s battle against P.C. He is missed.
The debate between Woods and the zombie is like every argument I have ever had with a fringe leftist on this blog.
Patterico (9c670f) — 3/19/2014 @ 7:50 pmtimmah is a waste of protoplasm.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 3/19/2014 @ 8:09 pmintrastate secessions seem like the more better way to go at least for now
happyfeet (8ce051) — 3/19/2014 @ 8:11 pmhappy, as a practical matter, giving Los Angeles more power to be, well, Los Angeles . . . I just can’t say I’m for that.
I should be able to enjoy the weather and the area I live in without having my life turned upside down by these morons.
Patterico (9c670f) — 3/19/2014 @ 8:19 pmI search for solutions other than sitting around waiting for the fiscal collapse. This one — saving the parts of the country that can be saved and breaking off from the United States — is not particularly realistic, but the option of doing nothing is so unthinkable that unrealistic options seem worth discussing.
America 3.0 discusses some options along this line.
My own review is here. They discuss rearranging political entities with some states breaking up and others sharing some institutions like universities.
It’s worth reading. Of course, they acknowledge that the US has to take a “haircut” before any of the solutions can work. That means repudiation of a lot of debt and obligations, like pensions.
MikeK (cd7278) — 3/19/2014 @ 8:21 pmPatterico – But if ethnic Angelenos like the ethnic Russians in Crimea decide their destiny lies in governing themselves like morons, who are the minority to stand in the way of their right of self-determination. Ask Former Conservative, for gosh sakes, he’s smarter than all of us put together and a world authority on these matters.
I in no way intend to demean the ethnic Russian people of the Crimea by comparing them to the majority moron Angelenos.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 3/19/2014 @ 8:28 pmThe guy coming to give us the “haircut” is swinging an axe and he’s aiming about 12 inches too low.
But that’s the medicine we need. I just worry it will kill us. But we’re dead anyway.
Patterico (9c670f) — 3/19/2014 @ 8:33 pmAndrew is missed. Timb is not.
SPQR (768505) — 3/19/2014 @ 8:33 pmFunny how that works, eh, SPQR?
Patterico (9c670f) — 3/19/2014 @ 8:42 pmI liked the Interview with a Zombie. Woods is effective and entertaining. I also like the “duty to resist.”
DRJ (a83b8b) — 3/19/2014 @ 9:02 pmFailifornia in general, and Lost Angels in particular may not have invented “stuck on stupid”, but we are apparently bound & determined to perfect it…
i blame reusable grocery sacks, HOV lanes and designer jeans for this, as well as Mr. Feets.
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 3/19/2014 @ 9:21 pmi kinda like the idea of city-states really
not that I think Los Angeles would be a superlative example of one such
but I’m not vested in failifornia or los angeles in any meaningful way
at some point i have to bail
the taxes, they are too many
happyfeet (8ce051) — 3/19/2014 @ 10:14 pmwhat we need is a taco equality tax!
for the chilrens…
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 3/19/2014 @ 10:16 pmmr. red you remindered me I have a friend being hounded by the fascist apparatchiks of los angeles for taxes he couldn’t possibly owe as he was only a 1099 employee for two months in 2006
he dumped the papers on me today for to sort out this week
i really really hate these losers
happyfeet (8ce051) — 3/19/2014 @ 10:16 pmthe apparatchiks, meaning
happyfeet (8ce051) — 3/19/2014 @ 10:17 pmthat may be a city business license tax issue… of which i know a little about, having researched it myself, during which i discovered i needed one myself, which could have been expensive had i not been curious.
lemme know if i can help off line: IANAL, but i do know one, besides Patterico, of course. 😎
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 3/19/2014 @ 10:23 pmMr. Feets – Move to Minnesota for the always tasty walleye on a stick.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 3/19/2014 @ 10:29 pmthank you – I haven’t looked at the papers yet
last time i just had to make a call i hope this time is just a glitch
if you live in burbank you avoid all this crap
is my understanding
happyfeet (8ce051) — 3/19/2014 @ 10:30 pmMinneapolis is definitely an option
and I love Des Moines too
but I need to occupy myself here until I break up with my orthodontist
happyfeet (8ce051) — 3/19/2014 @ 10:31 pmWhen I saw the word “nullification”, my first thought was jury nullification. Of course, you were talking about something else, but it did make me curious. Where does Patterico stand on jury nullification? My off the top of my head thought is that since you are a prosecutor, you will be against them. But, in my view, jury nullification is an important check on government, and given your other views, you may surprise me.
What say you?
Anon Y. Mous (8ec442) — 3/19/2014 @ 10:32 pm19. Des Moines is nice, warmer than MN.
Do not move near the river.
gary gulrud (e2cef3) — 3/19/2014 @ 10:45 pmLet’s do this: Los Angeles can secede, but they have to take on Santa Monica and Malibu and leave behind San Pedro and the Harbor area. I think that would be best for everyone.
JVW (9946b6) — 3/19/2014 @ 10:57 pmApparently adding neo- to whatever is the new shorthand for leftist sneering and dishonesty. It seems to be a marker for them, after which they can just call you racist, claim you support slavery, or are waging war against women.
JD (9c73be) — 3/20/2014 @ 5:18 amA) TimB is an idiot, but we all knew that.
B) No, Tom Woods did not “shred” Boot’s arguments. Woods’ reliance on Jefferson’s discredited (and never adapted) doctrine of nullification doesn’t give his arguments any weight. In fact Madison completely opposed Jefferson’s idea, even though both are bizarrely and incorrectly often labeled as proponents of the doctrine.
Woods’s interpretation of early American political thought leaves much to be desired, and I’ll leave it at that.
Paul Zummo (77ff47) — 3/20/2014 @ 5:53 amPaul Zummo,
No, please don’t leave it at that. Give us some links and arguments.
My honest impression is that Woods tore Boot apart. If you have fact-based arguments to the contrary, with links to back up your assertions, I think we would be interested to hear you out. That would be better than the TimB “label and sneer” form of “argument.”
If Woods is distorting history, let’s hear about it.
Patterico (9c670f) — 3/20/2014 @ 6:37 amIf you go to the post that TimB infested at Woods’s blog, you will see TimB is the living manifestation of the zombie in that video. His entire argument for dozens of comments is pointing fingers and saying RACISM and SLA-VER-Y and NEE-OH-CON-FEDERATE!
Patterico (9c670f) — 3/20/2014 @ 6:42 amI didn’t say that Woods is necessarily distorting history. As a matter of fact, he is right about what Jefferson believed. The problem is using Jefferson as a bulwark in favor of an argument in favor of nullification is as mistaken as using Jefferson as the ultimate interpreter of the first amendment and the wall of separation. Jefferson’s viewoint was not necessarily shared by the majority of Framers, and in fact was decidedly rebuked by James Madison, who is a more authoritative voice on the Constitution.
Madison penned the Virginia Resolutions at the same time as Jefferson penned the draft of the Kentucky Resolutions, and the VA Resolutions were much milder in tone. Madison did not argue for nullification, but rather for “interposition,” which really amounted to several states coming together to formally protest perceived unconstitutional amendments.
As to nullification, Madison expressly argued that such a right did not exist. Remember, he was still alive during the Jackson administration and so wrote on this issue. Here is a link to his thoughts on nullification, written in 1834. Madison wrote elsewhere about nullification, but I apologize as I just don’t have those exact dates committed to memory, but could look them up later for you. Oddly enough I’ve seen this exact letter being used to argue the point that Madison actually supports nullification, but Madison merely concedes – as I think anyone living at the time in American history had to – that as a last resort there is a right to revolution, but Madison is pretty clear (IMO) that he does not think nullification is justified.
Now it’s possible to argue that Madison was wrong and Jefferson right, and you’re free to make that argument. But I’d just note that Madison was directly involved in crafting the Constitution whereas Jefferson was not.
Finally I’d link my dissertation, but for some reason you gotta spend $100 to buy it online, so I’m not gonna do that. I’d love to pursue this conversation in greater detail down the line, though I think I’ve used up all my free time for the day. I will say that perhaps I came off as too harsh against Mr. Woods, as it’s really just a matter of historical disagreement, and frankly I don’t really have any desire to defend Max Boot, so I’ll take back some of what I said. But I do think that on this narrow issue Woods is wrong.
Paul Zummo (77ff47) — 3/20/2014 @ 7:37 amWoods addresses Madison’s objections in his FAQ in response to TimB’s trolling: Internet Derangement Syndrome Strikes Again
ropelight (bc462c) — 3/20/2014 @ 8:46 amPatterico, yep, funny that … ** sigh **
SPQR (768505) — 3/20/2014 @ 9:21 amSounds like left wing lunatic Timb didn’t get enough love as a child.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 3/20/2014 @ 12:41 pmBut that’s something that a person can rebound from.
Unfortunately, it also sounds like Timb is not getting enough love as an adult.
And that’s problematic. Or whatever.
OMG–I loved it and cracked up at the slavery comment, too.
Nothing like humor to address an argument.
rochf (f3fbb0) — 3/21/2014 @ 5:19 amLove it, but just a comment that in order to give the correct zombie look, one need only apply a greyish tint to the skin which removes color, then darken the eyes. The zombie in the video looks more like a clown.
Denver Todd (123e7a) — 3/22/2014 @ 10:33 pm