Patterico's Pontifications

3/16/2014

Don’t Call Me Bossy!

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:43 am

[Guest post by Dana]

As March is National Women’s History month, it’s no surprise that a new Hollywood-infused campaign with women and girls’ supposed best interest at heart, has debuted. The campaign, as you probably know by now, is called Ban Bossy. It’s being spearheaded by Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg. Sandberg would like you to refrain from using the word, especially with regard to the fairer sex.

In Sandberg’s words,

“I was called bossy when I was in ninth grade. My teacher took my best friend Mindy aside and she said, ‘You shouldn’t be friends with Sheryl. She’s bossy.’ And that hurt.”

(And yet, in spite of that, Sandberg grew up to be the COO of Facebook).

She continues,

“We call girls bossy on the playground. We call them too aggressive or other B-words in the workplace. They’re bossy as little girls, and then they’re aggressive, political, shrill, too ambitious as women.”

Few would disagree that women in places of power still struggle against stereotyping, and too often do not garner the same level of respect as their counterparts.

That tired, flaccid paragon of modern women, Cosmopolitan refers to it as the ABC’s of the office: “Aggressive, assertive, angry. Bossy, brusque, bitch. Cold, calculating, careerist.” And while that may be how some view this, not all female bosses see it that way nor do they see banning a gender neutral word as the solution.

So, how do we to fix the problem? Well, according to the campaign, ban the word bossy. Stigmatize it and those who use it. Shield women from its hurtful edge while granting them victimhood status. We’ve come a long way, baby. Not so much, really. When the solution to the assumed negative impact experienced from being called bossy is to be bossy telling others what words they should and should not say, well that is not progress. And squelching another’s speech is no solution at all.

Another option, albeit crazy, is to face the problem head-on. Encourage women to push back, stand up, and lean in as they embrace their inner-bossiness. Instead of the powerful and successful women involved in the campaign scolding us for using the word bossy, let’s have them remind us of how they met with success in spite of the word bossy. Clearly, it didn’t hold them back.

And although she does not appear in the campaign video, it might be especially instructive to hear from Tina Fey, actress/comedian and author of the autobiographical bestseller, Bossypants, whose book flap reads in part, You’re nobody until somebody calls you bossy.

– Dana

126 Responses to “Don’t Call Me Bossy!”

  1. Aw, the poor things. Good thing we have feminists to protect the brave, courageous, just-as-good-as-boys grrls!

    Patricia (be0117)

  2. Because I am still getting familiar with Word Press and don’t yet know how to make a correction in the post, I will do it here:

    You’re nobody until someone somebody calls you bossy.

    Dana (9a8f57)

  3. Here is a novel concept, how about not banning any word…how about just stop DOING IT and you won’t be CALLED IT!

    It’s simple Ladies, if you want to ‘ban bossy’, DON’T BE BOSSY.

    Here is the deal, if you stop being ‘bossy’ should anyone ever call you that again we will ALL pile-on THAT person and they’ll regret making that mistake.

    We will do that, not because a word has foolishly been ‘banned’, but because they would be wrong about YOU and we will ALL step-up and tell them so!

    Keep harping and succeed in your campaign to ‘ban bossy’ and you will rue that day. The word that takes it place – and there will be one, it’s human nature – will be even less flattering.

    MJN1957 (ced8e0)

  4. Some girls are bossy to the point of being obnoxious control freaks. An old friend just this week had open heart surgery for a #4 valve replacement, and his eldest daughter is driving everyone crazy trying to take-over and make all the medical and financial decisions when he already anticipated a period of incapacity and left written instructions with 2 trusted old friends who’re on the spot and have been close to him for the last 6 years. She hasn’t visited once in that time, almost never calls, doesn’t return calls for weeks or months, but still relies on him to bail her out of tight spots and financial emergencies, and has for well over 30 years.

    Her father’s clear intentions mean nothing to her, she’s his closest blood relative and she’s determined to elbow everyone else out of her way. That’s pathologically bossy, and the shoe fits like a glove.

    ropelight (5d2732)

  5. Note: correction referred to at #2, made on post.

    Dana (9a8f57)

  6. This whole “bossy” thing makes me want to vomit. So-called “feminists” appear to be among the least aware on what it means to be a complete woman. I particularly hate that they took over a word related to “feminine” which is something nice and valuable to society and is something almost every woman I know aims to be as a homemaker and even as we make our way in the cutthroat world of business and the professions.

    I’m surprised and deeply disappointed that Condi has affiliated herself with this ridiculous campaign.

    elissa (96d669)

  7. Once again we have victimization based on feelings. What ever happend to truth to power?

    AZ Bob (533fbc)

  8. And men don’t struggle against stereotypes? What differentiates the stereotyping of men from the stereotyping of women is that the former is socially acceptable and widely practiced, while the latter is roundly condemned and verboten in polite society. Calls to chivalry, so is seems, are still alive and well when it accrues to benefit of women engaged in the most non-traditional pursuits (I would call that having your cake and eating it too).

    Unfortunately, the “ban bossy” campaign does little more than confirm two gender stereotypes. First, that women can dish it out but can’t take is and, second, that women are frail and need to be rescued. Is that really the message Ms. Sandberg want to send? Why would any business want to promote employees to positions of authority who have those qualities? Why would any underling respect a manager with those qualities?

    If nothing else, what the “ban bossy” campaign tells us is that women continue to struggle as they attempt to transition away from traditional gender roles, which is a shame. If women actually want to be accepted in positions of power, they would be wise to learn from their male counterparts and strap on some balls.* Otherwise, if they can’t take the heat, they should stay out of the kitchen.

    *Please note that when men are insufficiently aggressive and thereby fail to live up to their gender stereotype, they are compared to eunuchs, which is a considerably more hurtful denigrating reference. And do we hear an outcry for the abolition of “strap on some balls” from popular parlance? No way.

    By the bye, its great to have you posting, Dana.

    ThOR (130453)

  9. with this tired campaign
    they pave way for teh Boss Hog
    Hilary Clinton

    Colonel Haiku (7f84dc)

  10. Col @ 9,

    Ashe Schow of the Washington Examiner connects the dots for us. The timing of this campaign is not coincidental. And, it answers the question of how the Ban Bossy campaign will benefit Democrats (which should always be the first question asked).

    Two years ago, Democrats launched a campaign to brand Republicans as engaging in a “war on women,” a campaign with a lasting impact that will no doubt stretch into the 2016 elections if Clinton runs.

    Now the Ban Bossy campaign gives Democrats another weapon to use against those who disagree with Clinton’s policy ideas.

    washingtonexaminer.com/ban-bossy-campaign-started-by-hillary-clinton-donor-ahead-of-2016-run/article/2545552

    Dana (9a8f57)

  11. Let’s face it, most women are not able to command people very well. And in particular little girls fail at it a lot.

    There’s something about how they tell people what to do that sticks in other craws. Particularly little boys.

    It’s snide and superior and with a touch of their doing this for YOUR own good plus a soupcon of “Mom said” to top it off.

    This apparently doesn’t go away when they get older. It’s mostly subdued in our awareness (guys) by the sexual overtones (that most by then have figured out how to play) so that we go along because we hope to (whatever).

    At a certain age or status for men, that goes away and were back to actually listening to what’s said and how it’s said and we mostly cringe.

    If our jobs depend on it we can keep it under control but we’ll have plenty of resentment which leads to the undermining of the female in command.

    It may even be in our DNA. Built into our emotional makeup. Heck even women don’t like to take orders from other women.

    jakee308 (e940d5)

  12. >>Comment by Colonel Haiku (7f84dc) — 3/16/2014 @ 11:11 am

    Wouldn’t that be “Bossy Hog”?

    jakee308 (e940d5)

  13. The solution is to understand what bossy actually means. Dictionary.com defines it as “given to ordering people about; overly authoritative; domineering,” with synonyms including “highhanded, officious, dictational; overbearing, and abrasive.” It is, in effect, exercising authority poorly, being a poor leader or manager, and men can fail at these things just as easily as women. A good manager or leader conveys instructions well, and his subordinates follow instructions because they have respect and confidence in their superiors. The word “bossy” may be applied to women more frequently than men — failing male leaders have other words more frequently applied to them — but the real problem with the word bossy is that it indicates failure on the part of the boss, and the strident feminists cannot really accept the notion that women can fail.

    The Other Dana (af9ec3)

  14. Of course, there’s more to it. Management skills can be taught, to some degree, but leadership is innate; people either are leaders, or they are not.

    The realistic Dana (af9ec3)

  15. “Heck even women don’t like to take orders from other women.”

    I frankly see a lot of that. Several years back a woman colleague and I both had to do a lot of networking related to a start up venture. I spent a lot of time with mixed sex subject focused groups. She joined a number of “women in business” type groups.

    Ignoring the productivity of the contacts established, we would compare notes on the substance of the meetings. Often in the women’s meetings not much was accomplished because people were too busy trying to polite to each other rather than act assertive and assume responsibility for what needed to get done. Nobody wanted to step up and have the other ladies consider them a bitch or bossy. In a men’s meeting somebody volunteering to do something or take responsibility for it would be just fine.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  16. Or maybe they mean this:

    Not long ago, a friend and I were chatting about our collective memories of having grown up on a farm. She asked me if I remember anyone in my family bringing the milk cows in at milking time by calling them “Bossie.”

    I told her I remembered, especially, my Great-Grandpa Charlie using that almost sing-song call of “Come Bossie, come boss!”

    It set our minds to wondering if it was a universal summons, and how in the world it got started. Linda went home and did some research and learned that the name Bossy likely originates from “the genus for cows is Bos taurus. Apparently Bos is the Roman word for cow.”

    http://www.farmanddairy.com/columns/calling-%E2%80%98bossie%E2%80%99-stands-the-test-of-time/8931.html

    elissa (96d669)

  17. I told my daughters that if someone is trying to ban the use of a word, it is okay to dismiss that person. Especially if the word is not gender specific or innately offensive. Why do these “women” choose to infantalize other women?

    JD (dd904d)

  18. “Why do these “women” choose to infantalize other women?”

    JD – They’re bitchy?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  19. Bossy bltches, Daley

    JD (dd904d)

  20. Don’t tell me what to do, Dana!

    nk (dbc370)

  21. a pig in teh poke
    is now worth two in teh street
    except for Clinton

    Colonel Haiku (853a3d)

  22. tell ma tell yo’ pa
    send her back to Arkansas
    tell me what i say

    Colonel Haiku (853a3d)

  23. It must be that Sheryl Sandberg and otehrs are very much affected, or emotionally hurt anyway, by other people’s opinions, and men are not that way.

    And also, wouldn’t it be enough to ask people only to use when it applies?

    Sammy Finkelman (cb261b)

  24. you can call me Ray
    or RayJay you doesn’t has
    to call me Johnson

    Colonel Haiku (853a3d)

  25. If you can’t stand the heat, go back to the kitchen.

    AZ Bob (533fbc)

  26. Few would disagree that women in places of power still struggle against stereotyping, and too often do not garner the same level of respect as their counterparts.

    I’m sure there are random exceptions, but this is, and has been for decades, utter CRAP.

    Men have been cooperating for millenia, first in hunting groups and war, and then more and more in civilized endeavors, as well as those former.

    They’ve learned to handle and recognize a certain pecking order, and how to respond to it. This is taught to them as children, and the male children themselves have been self-selected over time for their ability to respond properly to it — it’s a skill, like anything else.

    Women have not been taught this kind of thing, and their social patterns, as children, don’t teach them any of it.

    So, wow, what a freakin’ surprise, they don’t do a particularly good job of matching up with that pecking order, or sending the right cues to the men around them.

    THIS IS NOT SEXISM. If a man calls a woman “Bossy”, what it means is she’s probably pretty crappy at reading and sending the right cues as she gives instructions and takes in information from her subordinates.

    It’s got nothing to do with her being a female — if a guy behaved the exact same way — mirrored the same incorrect social cues — he’s going to be thought of as a lousy boss — and have the same exact response from most male employees.

    Will they USE the term “bossy”? Possibly not. But it’s the same either way… a sign of an incompetent executive in some minorly significant way, which may or may not matter too much in the workplace, but is clearly a shortcoming the supervisor, female or otherwise, could probably stand to work on.

    Banning the word is not going to fix the problem.
    The problem is not the word.
    Nor is it the perception.

    The problem is the failure of the female executive to learn to read and respond properly to social cues that have been worked out, and been working, for tens of thousands of years.

    The problem is that women can’t accept the notion that they MIGHT be the source of the problem, not sexism.

    Smock Puppet, "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses." (225d0d)

  27. The Other Dana

    Exactly. Two thumbs up.

    Smock Puppet, "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses." (225d0d)

  28. I’m more offended by the word “ban” than “bossy”.

    The Sanity Inspector (6f36b6)

  29. Smock Puppet #26 – perhaps we can simplify it, and point out that (to paraphrase you *slightly*)

    The problem is the failure of an executive to learn to read and respond properly to social cues that have been worked out, and been working, for tens of thousands of years.

    If that executive happens to be female, is that even relevant ?

    The rational person says that it is because of incompetence …

    The emotionally manipulative says that it is because of some victim/minority/something-challenged status …

    It keeps coming back to the dog-whistle … those who *hear* dog-whistles simply prove themselves to be dogs …

    Alastor (2e7f9f)

  30. As a freshman in high school my daughter played sweeper on a girls AYSO soccer team. One week the boy’s freshman school team deigned it acceptable to play a scrimmage with my daughter’s team. All the derisive comments and mocking ended when my daughter and one of the boy’s team forwards both went hard after the ball and collided. My daughter got the ball and he got an arm in a cast. Later he asked her to sign his cast.

    That is how you handle derision.

    in_awe (7c859a)

  31. Like an old boss once said, if you’re not pissing somebody off you’re not doing your job.

    CrustyB (d4da92)

  32. Dear America,

    Please stop referring to me as, “The Boss.”
    Thanks.

    Sincerely,

    Bruce Springsteen

    Elephant Stone (108847)

  33. Sure, we should ban potentially derogatory terms which are used against one gender more than another. Next to go: aggressive, violent, nerdy, autistic.

    David Pittelli (b77425)

  34. teh Master Blaster
    The Main Boy with teh Joy Toy
    Boss with teh Hot Sauce

    Colonel Haiku (853a3d)

  35. Bo and Luke Duke will be thrilled to learn that Boss Hogg is no longer the Boss.
    The truth is, this whole “don’t use the term, ‘bossy’” is merely a strategic predicate to insulate Hillary from criticism in 2016.

    Elephant Stone (108847)

  36. If that executive happens to be female, is that even relevant ?

    I agree it may be relevant in the sense I argue for. Women often complain about men not allowing them to be “assertive” or “in charge”, lest they be labeled bossy or domineering.

    I cite that this is not about men-v-women directly, but about women not having the practice and even natural inclination (self-selected among male children for many many millenia) towards the social cues being utilized.

    In the sense that the approach would be to make women aware of what it is that they are failing to do properly, which means you first have to identify the psycho-social cues that they are missing which, face it, most men are unaware of are happening at all.

    Getting rid of the notion that this problem is entirely male gender bias — assuming, of course, that I am correct in my assertion — is absolutely essential to “fixing” the problem within a generation or so.

    Smock Puppet, "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses." (225d0d)

  37. BTW — Cass doesn’t Get It. Althouse doesn’t Get It.

    She thinks this is all male hysteria, as does Althouse.

    Smock Puppet, "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses." (225d0d)

  38. in_awe,

    I like your story and am glad your daughter is a hard-playing, formidable athlete.

    I fear that if she had been the one who ended up with her arm in a cast, the boy involved would have been in for a world of pain.

    Pious Agnostic (ac89e5)

  39. I agree with the poster above who stated that the word “ban” is what’s offensive. From banning guns to banning plastic bags to banning big gulps to banning certain words, it’s all an affront to our intelligence and to our liberty.

    elissa (96d669)

  40. Banned in Bossedun

    Colonel Haiku (853a3d)

  41. If this is all becuz Shrillery doesn’t want to be called “bossy” — too late.

    And, “bossy” isn’t even the half of her problem.

    The word she should be trying to ban is “incompetent”.

    A_Nonny_Mouse (1037cf)

  42. Since I’ve been watching the first two episodes of the new Cosmos series, I was wondering how long it would take to bring up global warming and discredit faith.

    Two episodes.

    Of course, they take a intelligent design argument about eyes to ridicule faith, without realizing that faith actually has a definition.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  43. Well then it’s much like the original host, Carl Sagan’s bete noires

    (from a Lucianne link;

    For example, in the book “Comrade J” (by Pete Earley), the story of Sergey Tretyakov, the highest ranking SVR officer who defected to the United States from his post at the UN in 2000, Tretyakov recounts the myth of the “nuclear winter”. The KGB used propaganda and disinformation to influence public opinion, around the world, including scientific propaganda. According to Tretyakov, the KGB created the myth of nuclear winter. Tretyakov claimed that the “Soviet scientists knew this theory was completely ridiculous. There were no legitimate scientific facts to support it. But it was exactly what Andropov needed to cause terror in the West.” Carl Sagan was one person who bought into this myth.

    narciso (3fec35)

  44. Don’t get me wrong. I believe in science. I, as would anyone, would be monumentally stupid not to believe in science. The world we live in is possible because of science. I just have a problem with people of science saying it is settled. They know as well as I that it is not.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  45. Ditto I wanted to be an astronaut, back in that era, Giordano Bruno, as some exemplar of science back in that era, he was more like Art Bell.

    narciso (3fec35)

  46. . “And squelching another’s speech is no solution at all. ”

    So nigger is ok? It’s a black person’s problem if he/she doesn’t like being called that? Or a Jew being called a Yid, or . . .

    I can think of worse things to be called then “bossy” but the writer’s generalization doesn’t work.

    What might work would be to say: so what’s wrong with that? Or what’s wrong w/being bossy? Don’t bosses boss?

    azyre (e35cee)

  47. azyre #46 – banning words simply means that people don’t learn to deal with them … (or the concepts that they express) …

    And in the case you cite, you end up trying to ban “niggardly”, too, because you do not understand what “niggardly” means

    Sorta like trying to pass legislation to ban corrupt politicians in Chicago – and we all know how well *that* has worked …

    It keeps coming back to Banning mean words means banning learning to cope with mean words

    Alastor (2e7f9f)

  48. And besides, Hillary isn’t bossy.

    Hillary is a harridan, a harpy, a vicious back biting bitch, high maintenance, mean, nasty and disrespectful to those who must supply her support and security but she’s not bossy.

    jakee308 (e940d5)

  49. azyre wrote:

    So nigger is ok? It’s a black person’s problem if he/she doesn’t like being called that? Or a Jew being called a Yid, or . . .

    Yes, actually, it is. If I call an black person a nigger, he might not like it, but that doesn’t give him the right to assault me due to it.

    The problem with those loaded words is that they give the speaker power over the listener: I can, in theory, exercise a power to enrage a black man for no cause simply by using a word, and quite possibly provoke a reaction that can get him locked up. If the listener chooses not to react, he robs the speaker of that power.

    You came up with two examples, and they are actually illustrative: while we would be unsurprised if a black listener reacted violently to nigger, we would be surprised if a Jew reacted violently to yid. This means that we recognize a greater power to offend with one word than with another.

    The linguist Dana (3e4784)

  50. Linguist Dana, thanks for the reminder. I’m all for the meaning “Lewinski” has acquired. And we have it on no less an authority than Gennifer Flowers that Hillary is a cunning linguist herself.

    nk (dbc370)

  51. People simply react differently to men and women:

    Study: Investors Prefer Men’s Startup Pitches
    By Gabrielle Karol | Published March 14, 2014 | FOXBusiness

    Investors are more likely to say yes to a startup pitch from a man, over a woman, according to new research from Harvard Business School, Wharton and MIT Sloan. And, the more attractive the woman, the worse her chances of hooking a VC, the study finds.

    “The way venture capitalists make selections is quite a long, complicated process. It’s more like falling in love than choosing an investment,” says MIT Sloan Associate Dean of Innovation Fiona Murray, one of the researchers.

    According to Murray, today only 10% of U.S. venture capital is going to women-led businesses. This was one reason the research was needed, she says.

    “There are two obvious explanations: Women don’t ask, or they ask but have different businesses that don’t need as much money or aren’t as appealing … We wanted to see if there were more subconscious biases,” says Murray.

    For the experiment, over 500 participants watched two real-life pitch presentation videos. The actual entrepreneurs behind the startups weren’t featured, however, as the researchers dubbed in male and female voices.

    Although the male and female narrators read the same pitch, the investors felt the startup was more valuable when the pitch was presented by a man. More than 68% of the participants decided to fund the startup when a man narrated the pitch. However, less than 32% of investors decided to invest when the same exact pitch was given by a woman.

    More at the link. One other thing found was that more conventionally good looking men were more effective in their pitches than men who were less attractive, but more attractive women were less effective in their sales pitches than more ordinary looking ones.

    The businessman Dana (3e4784)

  52. nk, I had actually set the name as The cunning linguist Dana, but edited it back before posting. :)

    The self-editing Dana (3e4784)

  53. Freedom of expression is tough on leftists. They want to tell you what to think, you actually expressing your thoughts is fraught with peril for them.

    JD (b4e6c6)

  54. A small bone to pick. N-word or yid is not the equivalent of bossy. Not by a long shot on a blue dress. And I think azyre is tye. (My previous TL;DR comment on this was eaten. Just as well.)

    nk (dbc370)

  55. So nigger is ok? It’s a black person’s problem if he/she doesn’t like being called that? Or a Jew being called a Yid, or . . .

    False equivalence. If “bossy” applied to women in particular, you’d have a point. But “bossy” can be applied to either gender and still mean the same thing.

    Calling someone bossy is like calling someone a jerk. They may not like it, but being so offended by it that they want to ban the word is silly.

    Chuck Bartkowksi (7f50c5)

  56. But it’s an ill wind that blows no good. Is Sheryl really coming at this from a feminist perspective, a hurt child perspective (as she claims), or a Jewish mother perspective (as she is)?

    nk (dbc370)

  57. erfcake erfcake

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  58. Miss Sandberg thinks that she is saucy,
    But does not like being called bossy!
    She thinks that she can
    Hit this word with a ban;
    She needs to get off her high hossy!

    The Limerick Avenger (3e4784)

  59. And also, wouldn’t it be enough to ask people only to use when it applies?

    Since it’s subjective, who gets to determine when it’s appropriately applied?

    smh

    Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 (f7d5ba)

  60. Their cute video includes a small boy saying something like “I don’t know any boys who are called ‘bossy’.”

    Worst appeal to authority ever.

    Pious Agnostic (7eb3b0)

  61. Bossy, says Sheryl, is a word we shouldn’t utter;
    The mere sound of it make little girls shudder.
    “Oh Sheryl, stop being such a queen,
    The word’s not aggressive or mean,
    And much to be preferred to ballbuster”.

    nk (dbc370)

  62. OT, Breaking locally.

    did the earth move for the Patterico household this morning?

    http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/ci15476961#summary

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  63. As The Sanity Inspector said in comment 28,

    I’m more offended by the word “ban” than “bossy”.

    “Ban” is about to become a fighting word. No one is fooled by these obviously thin-skinned campaigns. If grrls are all so totally strong n awesome n stuffs, WHY do words hurt them? Because they need more chocolate. A silly solution for a silly problem. Get a backbone honey. Suck it up and deal.

    In my utterly anecdotal survey of my own personal bosses, male bosses far outweigh female bosses on competence to lead. And all the sucky female ones were bossy.

    Also, if the boot fits…

    Vivian Louise, AKA Mrs. The Everlasting Phelps (9cfa92)

  64. did the earth move for the Patterico household this morning?

    It was only a 4.4. Angelenos don’t get out of bed for anything less than 5.0

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  65. Not that I disagree with the points made but the entire premise to the conversation is ceding to Progressives.

    As with racism, best answer is, “it means almost nothing in terms of results, so why talk about it?”

    Same holds here. More BS from the left as pointed out above. Astroturf for another cause with little meaning.

    Rodney King's Spirit (ca9e04)

  66. Angelenos don’t get out of bed for anything less than 5.0

    we make exceptions for when stuff starts falling and the cats go haywire, waking one out of a sound sleep…

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  67. More than 68% of the participants decided to fund the startup when a man narrated the pitch. However, less than 32% of investors decided to invest when the same exact pitch was given by a woman.

    One other thing found was that more conventionally good looking men were more effective in their pitches than men who were less attractive, but more attractive women were less effective in their sales pitches than more ordinary looking ones.

    That’s a whole lot more interesting than what apparently grabs the indignation of silly people (presumably mainly or all of the left) bothered by the word “bossy.” It’s also a social dynamic that people regardless of their politics can point to as a valid example of a non-equal playing field. But we instead get foolish things like schools manipulating funds to their sports programs to ensure that as many females as males are out on the basketball court or hockey field.

    Mark (d72f8d)

  68. Mark, it’s a lot more interesting, but it’s also something not subject to government action or simplistic ideas like banning a particular word. It gets to the heart of human nature, and the fact that people react differently to men and woman, and that’s just not something which can be legislated.

    The astute businessman Dana (3e4784)

  69. What kind of bossy a-hole wants to ban words?

    Ed (20a5b0)

  70. It seems that Sandberg
    can’t handle being the boss;
    make me a sammich!

    The Haiku Avenger (3e4784)

  71. If the bossy ones
    were actually leaders
    There’d be no problem

    The Haiku Avenger (3e4784)

  72. It gets to the heart of human nature

    Dana, and that aspect of human behavior bothers me quite a bit because I’m such a strong believer in the value and importance of merit and, if you will, a meritocracy.

    It’s pathetic that in order to deal with foolish aspects of human nature, we (meaning social activists, government officials, two-faced commentators in the MSM, etc) now are also snuffing out the crucial aspects of merit in the process.

    Mark (d72f8d)

  73. merit isn’t fair…

    that’s why they hate it.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  74. It’s only words and words are all I have… I’ll make them go away

    Colonel Haiku (0c88f6)

  75. “fair” is a pig show in August.(I stole that from someone, and it may have been in a comment here)

    Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 (f7d5ba)

  76. #25 took a lot longer to show up than I anticipated.

    @64- we did better than that up north last week, but fortunately it was out in the water… all in all it makes one rethink the concept of “terra firma”.

    Sticks and stones
    can break my bones,
    but names can never hurt me.

    gramps, the original (e6edf4)

  77. Mark wrote:

    Dana, and that aspect of human behavior bothers me quite a bit because I’m such a strong believer in the value and importance of merit and, if you will, a meritocracy.

    At least in the study, the subject was the reaction of potential investors to sales pitches for start-up investment. On such things, the actual merits can be determined only after the fact: did the start-up deliver the forecast results? When the entrepreneur is looking for initial investors, the only points on which to take a decision are the seeming expertise of the presentation and the apparent believability of the salesman.

    Whenever actual human beings are involved, judgements will be taken, and those are always subject to the viewpoints and biases of the observers.

    The sociologist Dana (3e4784)

  78. Or, put another way, what would Tom Brady ever have been if Drew Bledsoe hadn’t gotten hurt in 2001?

    The meriticatic Dana (3e4784)

  79. Merit? Sheryl Sandberg, mother of two, and also COO and Board Member of Facebook, board member of Walt Disney, ranked #8 in the “World’s 50 Most Influential Jews”, with a personal wealth of about $1 billion, among other things? Merit?

    I suppose you might take the Marxist view and say that her endeavors have been in things which are personal, petit-bourgeois, and self-indulgent. I wouldn’t, at least not with a straight face, when commenting on a blog post.

    nk (dbc370)

  80. Did I mention that she’s only forty-four? Paving the road for Hillary to become President? Try paving the road with Hillary for herself to become President.

    nk (dbc370)

  81. If, as this asinine campaign implicitly suggests, the biggest issue facing women in the workplace today is that a select few of them who occupy positions of prominence might, on occasion, be called “bossy,” then, I would submit that women are much closer to achieving “equality” than their alleged advocates believe.

    Guy Jones (df6cf0)

  82. nk wrote:

    I suppose you might take the Marxist view and say that her endeavors have been in things which are personal, petit-bourgeois, and self-indulgent.

    Quote from Strelnikov?

    The Dr Zhivago fan Dana (3e4784)

  83. No, Zhivago’s brother, the NKVD general, telling Zhivago why the Party had suppressed the publication of his poems.

    nk (dbc370)

  84. Another thought — if Sandberg has, in fact, been traumatized in some way by having been described as “bossy” during her childhood or youth, the proper response on her part would be to see a therapist or a psychologist, not to embark on a truly self-aggrandizing, idiotic social crusade. What this campaign represents is a woman’s attempt to ignore dealing with her own psychological issues, by conjuring up some new, alleged “grievance” on behalf of the female sex and positing that it represents a widespread societal problem. This is truly the work of a demented mind.

    Guy Jones (df6cf0)

  85. her name was Bossy
    but would respond to Clarice
    udderly bovine

    Colonel Haiku (0c88f6)

  86. Mr Jones, she can’t see a therapist, not in her position. What happens to her authority and the respect of her subordinates if she needs to go to a head shrinker because someone called her a name?

    The psychiatrist Dana (3e4784)

  87. many men tried and
    many men died while fighting
    teh pantsuited cow

    Colonel Haiku (0c88f6)

  88. I’ve found that bossy and bully aren’t far apart

    Neo (d1c681)

  89. News Flash:

    In a strongly-worded message, President Obama has threatened to refuse to help Russian President Putin fill out his NCAA Tournament brackets if the latter does not immediately withdraw troops from Crimea.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  90. Colonel, that was completely uncalled for, and I denounce you!

    The indignant Dana (3e4784)

  91. Painted Jaguar (looking annoyed):
    The issue is not the term “bossy”, the issue is the behavior that warrants it.
    After the term “bossy” is erased from usage, there will be another word to take its place as long as “b***y” behavior exists.
    Wipe out that word, and yet another word will take its place.
    That’s the way it is with words and things they name.
    My mummy, ever so kind and patient with me, is never bossy.
    But that doesn’t mean you can mess with her.
    It is sad that the person was traumatized as a child by being called “bossy”, but had she not been called “bossy”, she would have been called something else unpleasant and traumatized by that instead.
    Humans.

    Painted Jaguar (a sockpuppet) (f9371b)

  92. I think “bossy” means when somebody is giving people rigid, or unnecessary, or overly detailed rules, usually ones that they don’t come up with themselves.

    Sammy Finkelman (cb261b)

  93. I think “bossy” means when somebody is giving people rigid, or unnecessary, or overly detailed rules, usually ones that they don’t come up with themselves.

    If you don’t drink, today would be the perfect day to start.

    Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 (f7d5ba)

  94. Martinet? Martinette?

    nk (dbc370)

  95. But a bossy woman is less threatening than a martinet.

    Sammy Finkelman (cb261b)

  96. Ms. Sandberg is a manager. A very, very bright and successful one. A master manipulator. She finds a solution and creates a problem for it. That’s right, finds a solution and creates a problem for it. It makes her look good. She does not really have her panties in a wad over “bossy” and we should not either. If this thing does not turn out as planned, she’ll find some other gimmick to make herself look good. I’m telling you, look for her to be “suggested” as the first Jewish woman President.

    nk (dbc370)

  97. But is a bossy woman less threatening than Charles Martinet?

    PCachu (e072b7)

  98. “Shield women from its hurtful edge while granting them victimhood status. We’ve come a long way, baby. Not so much, really.”

    I think the idea of banning it is not so much to shield people but to force people who would use to think twice and consider an alternative before doing so. Ie, its trying to change the speaker, not the hearer.

    AnaC (0af2e8)

  99. #98: so, they want to boss me around and tell me i can’t use the term “bossy”…

    that sounds bossy to me, and more than a little hypocritical as well.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  100. “#98: so, they want to boss me around and tell me i can’t use the term “bossy”…”

    Yes. It is especially valuable for management in an organization to take steps to prevent misogyny in that organization. And that includes, of course, the normal thing that is bosses telling people what to do.

    AnaC (0af2e8)

  101. Ana, but “bossy” is not a gender-specific term. How can such a term have anything to do with misogyny?

    If someone is being bossy, I’ll call him on it. I will not change my words because some people get the vapors when they hear them.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  102. In this water-cooler issue of “to be bossy or not to be bossy” which is currently sweeping the nation, I think Barack O’Drama should take the first step toward pushing our backwards country in the direction of enlightenment by resigning as the Boss of America.

    I’m really tired of him bossing us around.
    It’s like, totally not nice.
    Or whatever.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  103. “Ana, but “bossy” is not a gender-specific term. How can such a term have anything to do with misogyny?”

    Maybe you haven’t been following but the whole point is how it is used against women. Reread the first sentence of the post, for example.

    AnaC (0af2e8)

  104. troll return to bridge!
    just let it be anaC
    you ain’t boss of me

    Colonel Haiku (0c88f6)

  105. Hilary Special
    Two leftwings and two fat thighs
    just call teh Colonel

    Colonel Haiku (0c88f6)

  106. work schedule mix-up
    AnaC had teh swing shift
    get back under bridge

    Colonel Haiku (0c88f6)

  107. AnaC is a bossy little schisekopf, isn’t it?

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  108. I think the idea of banning it is not so much to shield people but to force people who would use to think twice and consider an alternative before doing so. Ie, its trying to change the speaker, not the hearer.

    Exactly. So, bossy, don’t go trying to change me. Go change your maxi pad. And your underwear too.

    nk (dbc370)

  109. AnaC,

    Why do you want to force people to say or not say certain things ?
    Are you a totalitarian ?
    Or just a lonely person ?

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  110. It’s primary day in the Land of Lincoln tomorrow. I gots to be at the polling place at 5:15AM to help set up. Being an election judge means I am legally authorized to be bossy all day. Yeah!!

    elissa (3a8451)

  111. it’s not bossy if you say please

    how effing hard is that

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  112. Here’s a campaign picture of the guy currently polling ahead of the other 3 R candidates for IL governor. He’s Bruce Rauner, a venture capitalist who admits he’s in the top one tenth of one percent. Nice dog. Nice camo. Think he’s sending a not too subtle message to downstate voters?

    http://capitolfax.com/wp-content/resize.jpeg

    elissa (3a8451)

  113. Chuck if you wanted some examples just read between this and my last comment.

    AnaC (0af2e8)

  114. AnaC is your other pen name Tommy?

    elissa (3a8451)

  115. By the way, we ladies throw shoes around here when we get miffed or dissed. It’s much more effective than banning or censoring words.

    elissa (3a8451)

  116. elissa wrote:

    By the way, we ladies throw shoes around here when we get miffed or dissed. It’s much more effective than banning or censoring words.

    Not really; y’all throw like girls. :)

    The Dana ducking and running for cover (af9ec3)

  117. Seems like you got your work cut out for you. Good Luck.

    AnaC (0af2e8)

  118. I am pretty (can we still use that word?) sure AnaC is “winning” hearts and minds here.

    felipe (6100bc)

  119. Comment by Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 3/17/2014 @ 3:58 pm

    Barack O’Drama should take the first step toward pushing our backwards country in the direction of enlightenment by resigning as the Boss of America.

    He doesn’t have the job.

    There is a person who wants or wanted that job: Bill Clinton. (He can’t be president any more, but he can be Boss.)

    Sammy Finkelman (cb261b)

  120. Comment by elissa (3a8451) — 3/17/2014 @ 6:14 pm

    Tommy:

    See me.
    Feel me.
    Touch me.
    Heal me.

    Listening to you,
    I get the music.
    Gazing at you,
    I get the heat.
    Following you,
    I climb the mountains.
    I get excitement at your feet.

    Right behind you,
    I see the millions.
    On you,
    I see the glory.
    From you,
    I get opinions.
    From you,
    I get the story

    felipe (6100bc)

  121. Comment by elissa (3a8451) — 3/17/2014 @ 5:51 pm

    The double-barrel is a nice touch too. He can almost claim a Biden endorsement, Joe or Jill.

    nk (dbc370)

  122. Well, nk, if that is a wascally wabbit he’s holding he pretty much needed an Elmer Fudd type gun to complete the image. Bruce’s model probably cost considerably more than poor Elmer’s tho. I’m sure you or one of our experts can figure out what kind of gun future Gov. Rauner is armed with.

    elissa (3a8451)

  123. This kinda crazy makes the Ban Bossy campaign seem rather benign in comparison…

    A professor with Rochester Institute of Technology has called for the incarceration of any American who actively disagrees that climate change is solely caused by human activity.

    http://www.infowars.com/college-professor-calls-for-climate-change-deniers-to-be-imprisoned/

    elissa (3a8451)

  124. No clue. I want to guess a 20-gauge but I don’t know how big a man he is. It’s a sweetheart, though, isn’t it? That taper on the barrels … sigh.

    nk (dbc370)

  125. AnaC last seen fiddling about with Uncle Ernie, Felipe?

    Colonel Haiku (0c88f6)

  126. college professors in failmerica are very easily manipulated cause they’re eager-to-please whores on the low-end of the pay scale

    that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t key their cars and occasionally kick one or two of them in the shins really hard and then run away super fast to where they feel like they’ve suffered an Egregious Injustice

    happyfeet (8ce051)


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