Patterico's Pontifications

11/4/2013

Teh One’s Healthcare Boondoggle Is Hurting People

Filed under: General — JD @ 7:31 am

[guest post by JD]

There are real people that are getting screwed by this massive leftist clusterf@ck.

The linked article doesn’t even hit on those that are not yet able to get new plans after having theirs cancelled. Imagine the above story where he had a gap in coverage due to their abject failures to design a functioning system.

For those of you that choose to not click on the link, below is the text …

Everyone now is clamoring about Affordable Care Act winners and losers. I am one of the losers.
My grievance is not political; all my energies are directed to enjoying life and staying alive, and I have no time for politics. For almost seven years I have fought and survived stage-4 gallbladder cancer, with a five-year survival rate of less than 2% after diagnosis. I am a determined fighter and extremely lucky. But this luck may have just run out: My affordable, lifesaving medical insurance policy has been canceled effective Dec. 31.
My choice is to get coverage through the government health exchange and lose access to my cancer doctors, or pay much more for insurance outside the exchange (the quotes average 40% to 50% more) for the privilege of starting over with an unfamiliar insurance company and impaired benefits.
Countless hours searching for non-exchange plans have uncovered nothing that compares well with my existing coverage. But the greatest source of frustration is Covered California, the state’s Affordable Care Act health-insurance exchange and, by some reports, one of the best such exchanges in the country. After four weeks of researching plans on the website, talking directly to government exchange counselors, insurance companies and medical providers, my insurance broker and I are as confused as ever. Time is running out and we still don’t have a clue how to best proceed.
Two things have been essential in my fight to survive stage-4 cancer. The first are doctors and health teams in California and Texas: at the medical center of the University of California, San Diego, and its Moores Cancer Center; Stanford University’s Cancer Institute; and the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston.
The second element essential to my fight is a United Healthcare PPO (preferred provider organization) health-insurance policy.
Since March 2007 United Healthcare has paid $1.2 million to help keep me alive, and it has never once questioned any treatment or procedure recommended by my medical team. The company pays a fair price to the doctors and hospitals, on time, and is responsive to the emergency treatment requirements of late-stage cancer. Its caring people in the claims office have been readily available to talk to me and my providers.
But in January, United Healthcare sent me a letter announcing that they were pulling out of the individual California market. The company suggested I look to Covered California starting in October.
You would think it would be simple to find a health-exchange plan that allows me, living in San Diego, to continue to see my primary oncologist at Stanford University and my primary care doctors at the University of California, San Diego. Not so. UCSD has agreed to accept only one Covered California plan—a very restrictive Anthem EPO Plan. EPO stands for exclusive provider organization, which means the plan has a small network of doctors and facilities and no out-of-network coverage (as in a preferred-provider organization plan) except for emergencies. Stanford accepts an Anthem PPO plan but it is not available for purchase in San Diego (only Anthem HMO and EPO plans are available in San Diego).
So if I go with a health-exchange plan, I must choose between Stanford and UCSD. Stanford has kept me alive—but UCSD has provided emergency and local treatment support during wretched periods of this disease, and it is where my primary-care doctors are.
Before the Affordable Care Act, health-insurance policies could not be sold across state lines; now policies sold on the Affordable Care Act exchanges may not be offered across county lines.
What happened to the president’s promise, “You can keep your health plan”? Or to the promise that “You can keep your doctor”? Thanks to the law, I have been forced to give up a world-class health plan. The exchange would force me to give up a world-class physician.
For a cancer patient, medical coverage is a matter of life and death. Take away people’s ability to control their medical-coverage choices and they may die. I guess that’s a highly effective way to control medical costs. Perhaps that’s the point.

In related news, it seems like when Teh One strolled into the Rose Garden to tell people that they could call 1-800-F1C-KYO or submit their application with chiseled hieroglyphics on limestone, he knew it was not the case. Again, they opted for the dishonest simple salable LIE as opposed to being honest. If one were so inclined, a pattern could be emerging.

I wish Teh One had stuck to healing the planet, and stopping the oceans from rising.

Update – Ace highlights how dishonest the collectivist sand the MFM are being in their description of sub-standard plans, and how people will be getting better coverage for less. We have to push back on these lies.

—JD

200 Responses to “Teh One’s Healthcare Boondoggle Is Hurting People”

  1. Sorry to beat a dead horse, but there is so much material.

    JD (08d44e)

  2. The mainstream media found lots of people suffering from the effects of the so called government shutdown. Not so many sob stories on this. Just shop around.

    AZ Bob (ade845)

  3. The linked story, while tragic, is not unique, or even uncommon. I would be willing to bet each and every one of you could find similar situations and few short degrees removed from yourself.

    JD (08d44e)

  4. I wish Teh One had stuck to healing the planet,

    So instead of BarryCare, we end up with Solyndra.

    0 and 2.

    BTW, dental care, which directly impacts a person’s health (eg, tooth decay can negatively affect the circulatory system, potentially harming the heart), is no less crucial than medical care per se. Yet, the do-gooders — at least so far — haven’t bled and cried over a lack of government-mandated dental services. Moreover, not every person will necessarily have to see a doctor in the first half of his or her life, but just about every person will have to see a dentist, and dental care can swamp a person’s budget as much as basic medical care.

    Another thing: the government can’t even deal with time correctly, since Daylight Saving Time (which ended Sunday morning—and has been increased from 6 to 7 to 8 months), based on one reliable study, not only doesn’t save energy, but it is shown to harm people’s health (ie, forcing people to wake up earlier than normal shocks the body’s system).

    Welcome to the era of stupid.

    Mark (58ea35)

  5. Ace makes a good point. The MSM is now working overtime to obscure and hide these issues. Everyone needs to trumpet this kind of information. Heck, how many times has the White House trundled out examples of people who are hurt or benefitted by a particular proposed legislation?

    The people hurt by this “one size fits all” nonsense need to be publicized, all the time.

    Because most people, sadly, are Low Information Voters. They actually pay attention to “common wisdom,” which is neither wise or originating from anything relating to everyday people. It comes from DNC headquarters, and from there to the newsrooms.

    Crazy, crazy times.

    Again, look at Ace’s post. Particularly the bit where he compares and contrasts a policy.

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/344719.php

    Plus look at Dianne Feinstein’s clip (linked there as well), where she says that you can indeed keep your insurance policy…until the bill passed. OMG.

    Simon Jester (cabd97)

  6. SarahW – I am shocked that those cretins are spinning this.

    JD (e09bea)

  7. stupid twat thinks to herself hey maybe I should have some savings

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/shutdowns-lingering-hangover-main-street-110000552.html

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  8. JD, I assume you mean, “Shocked, shocked I tell you”.
    Sarahw showed that they had already done what I/we would have predicted.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  9. I’m a dissenter!

    This is me not voting for Coochie Cooch in Virginia cause of I dissent from his lifeydoodle obsessions.

    Also I dissent about the health cares me personally I’m a cancel my coverage and live dangerously for a year I think.

    Also I dissent about the media isn’t it weird that National Soros Radio doesn’t have a single story on the foodstampcare fiasco today?

    Also I dissent about how I’m the only one whatever stocks the fridge here with waters.

    I reserve the right to dissent about various other things as well, perhaps later today.

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  10. wait where did

    nevermind

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  11. Healing planet? Not covered under WoebamaCare…

    Colonel Haiku (180a66)

  12. Tye was trying out a new name. It is a thing.

    JD (5c1832)

  13. he tricked me!

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  14. Lowering teh seas? Co-pay and deductible are astronomical.

    Atomica!!!

    Colonel Haiku (180a66)

  15. Also I dissent about how I’m the only one whatever stocks the fridge here with waters.

    If you’re gonna insist on living in a desert next to a salt water sea …. I keep telling you to come to Chicago: http://imgur.com/zOdzGqC

    nk (dbc370)

  16. i definitely feel ready to move

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  17. The insurance companies are making up for the “must issue” rules by cutting back on doctor networks, hoping sick people (who have strong ties to particular doctors) go somewhere else.

    This is of course anther variation on the Prisoner’s Dilemma, where each insurance company tries to reduce their pain way below average. To do so by having networks of third-rate doctors is shortsighted.

    But then there’s a lot of that going around, courtesy of Obamacare. To paraphrase WarGames: “After very careful consideration, Mr President, I’ve come to the conclusion that your new health system sucks.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  18. If you wonder why more people aren’t coming forward to tell their stories, look at what happened to this cancer survivor who lost her insurance:

    WH smears cancer survivor who lost her insurance plan due to Obamacare.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  19. teh Chicago Way…

    Colonel Haiku (a04464)

  20. Having experienced socialized medicine first-hand while serving in a NATO assignment, NONE of this is surprising. In 2009, I attended every town hall meeting I could with our then-Congressman (now Senator) Joe Donnelly in Indiana, telling him and the crowd that this was going to be a train wreck.
    All that said, the most repulsive experience so far has been watching Ezekiel Emmanuel be front man for ObamaCare on several venues. I think that will end up being a mistake, especially when they look into his personal philosophy on who should get care in the US, in general. IF (big “if”) the MSM does a little research, what they find will be quite chilling. However, it will be old news to most in Europe…there are some people who just shouldn’t get aggressive care, in their systems’ eyes.
    I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall in the Green Room when Ezekiel next appears on Bill Maher or Morning Joe–if this woman’s case comes up in such an off-camera scenario, and assuming his companions in the room are sympathetic to the ACA–I would bet money he’d say she’s a perfect example of why we need single-payer, i.e., her case is a terrible waste of money and should be reserved for his favorite demographic, those between 15 and 40.

    A10Pilot (30dbeb)

  21. Twitchy is reporting that the White House’s Dan Pfieffer is smearing this cancer survivor on Twitter. Can this administration get any lower? Can they possibly?

    http://twitchy.com/2013/11/04/despicable-wh-smears-cancer-survivor-who-lost-her-insurance-plan-due-to-obamacare/

    CrustyB (5a646c)

  22. We all know they can, trick will be to ensure rest of America does, as well.

    Colonel Haiku (1d6084)

  23. BarryCare has them cheering in the streets.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  24. Horse whips were designed with people like Dan Pfeiffer in mind.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  25. As were size 19 wing tips…

    Colonel Haiku (fcc20b)

  26. If you don’t like your President, you still have to keep him. Or whatever.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  27. Comment by A10Pilot (30dbeb) — 11/4/2013 @ 10:54 am

    Ezekiel’s appearance on yesterday’s FoxNewsSunday was particularly illuminating.
    What a complete AH!
    An Alinskyite Bully of the first-order.
    If I had been James Capretta, it would (as I am sure it did with him) have taken every bit of self-control I possess to not get in his face and punch his lights out.
    But, never stand in the way of your opponent when he’s set out to self-destruct.
    He was the best spokesman for BarryCare imaginable.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  28. Comment by Colonel Haiku (fcc20b) — 11/4/2013 @ 11:17 am

    Why would you want to ruin a perfectly good shoe?

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  29. As long as they’re brown or cordovan, no problem whatsoevah!

    Colonel Haiku (86ce72)

  30. JD: Teh One strolled into the Rose Garden to tell people that they could call 1-800-F1C-KYO

    That’s not the number. You are missing a U. Notice you have only 6 digits there after the 800.

    It’s F1-uh-Q. A portmanteau of F1 (for help) and (expletive insulting to callers deleted)

    Sammy Finkelman (71b0bf)

  31. This will be spun as anecdotal.

    How many anecdotals equals a serious problem? What’s the number??

    Dana (d0b42c)

  32. Eh… Anecdotes, not anecdotals…

    Dana (d0b42c)

  33. Government knows best !

    C’mon, Tlaloc, sing it !

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  34. This lady presents an interesting question. United Health Care is one of the biggest players in the health insurance market in the USA. In May this year, United, along with Aetna and Cigna decided to “sit next year out” in California–i.e. pull out of the market and wait and see what happened. President Aide and Prime Jerkoff Dan Pfeiffer says that United Health pulled out of California “because it couldn’t compete”. In Dan Pfeiffer’s dream world, everybody knew what premiums would be offered 6 months ahead of time, and United bailed.

    Well–maybe so. I suspect that there are a lot of such fever dreams among the Choom Gang.

    What I find interesting about Ms. Sundby’s situation is that she’s obviously had five or six years of expensive cancer care treatment–in San Diego, Stanford and Houston–and United has been footing the bills. They didn’t choose to cancel until Obamacare came along.

    Another interesting element in Sundby’s piece is the assertion that policies issued under California Cover (the name of the exchange) won’t be usable across county lines. Now there are some wonderful medical centers in California with cutting edge physicians and treatments available. Think UC San Diego; the med school at UC Irvine; SC and UCLA med schools and hospitals in Los Angeles; Stanford in Santa Clara County and the UC Med School in San Francisco.

    If her assertion is true, does that mean that someone in Fresno or Kern Counties, or someone in one of the cow counties in the Sierra can’t come to these metropolitan medical centers to get treatment under a California Cover policy? If that’s the case, that’s an even greater outrage than Ms. Sundby losing her doctors and insurance.

    Comanche Voter (caea51)

  35. Update – Ace highlights how dishonest the collectivist sand the MFM are being in their description of sub-standard plans, and how people will be getting better coverage for less. We have to push back on these lies.

    What both you and Ace leave out of course is that the less generous plans aren’t a function of obamacare but rather are deceptive practices by insurance companies trying to keep their clients from finding better deals on the exchanges.

    An example:

    Before Obamacare, Donna paid a $724 monthly premium for $10,000 deductible, catastrophic health coverage from LifeWise, a subsidiary of the state’s Blue Cross/Blue Shield affiliate. She asked that TPM withhold her last name because she was disclosing personal financial information.

    The Sept. 16 letter from LifeWise told her that her existing plan was being canceled to comply with the new requirements of Obamacare and that she would automatically be rolled over into a new plan that was the “closest match” to her old plan. “If we don’t hear from you, we’ll automatically move you to this plan and you’ll be covered starting January 1, 2014,” the notice read.

    Under the new LifeWise plan, Donna would have to pay more than $1,000 a month, a nearly $300 per month increase and a huge hit for a family with an income around $40,000. It was bare-bones coverage by ACA standards, with a $6,350 deductible.

    The letter, which you can read here, made no mention of the insurance marketplace that was about to open, where she could shop around for other options. It did mention that she might qualify for financial help in the form of a tax credit but the onus was on Donna to call the insurer for more information.

    Fast forward a month, and Donna was able to log onto Washington’s marketplace and shop for insurance. And what did she find? Options. A LifeWise plan with the same deductible they offered her outside the exchange was a little cheaper. Plans with a lower deductible had the same or lower premiums as the LifeWise plan. What she ended up buying was a plan through Community Health Plan of Washington with a $250 deductible.

    And crucially, she also discovered she would qualify for a federal tax subsidy that would knock her monthly premium to $80. Her daughter could enroll in Medicaid, at no cost to the family.

    So here’s the bottom line: If Donna had taken the default option that LifeWise offered outside of the marketplace, she would have paid nearly $1,000 more per month for a worse plan than she was able to obtain on the marketplace.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/insurance-companies-misleading-letters-obamacare

    What are the odds you’ll take yet another example of how immoral the insurance companies are and pretend it is an indictment of obamacare rather than a d@mn good argument for single payer? I’m going with 99.5%, but that’s because I’m an optimist.

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  36. It’s Turtles all the way, down, Comanche.

    narciso (3fec35)

  37. Twitchy is reporting that the White House’s Dan Pfieffer is smearing this cancer survivor on Twitter.

    And as susual twitchy’s reporting is simply false. There’s nothing in the article Pfeiffer links that can even remotely be construed as smearing. They don’t say she’s lying. They don’t say she’s a shill. All they say is she’s mistaken about saying obamacare is the cause of her insurance company folding when there is evidence they were folding well before obamacare went into effect.

    If that is smearing then the word has lost all meaning. Rather this is a case of the rightwing argument falling apart and actual shills like twitchy desperately trying to hide the fact with personal attacks on Pfeiffer.

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  38. How many anecdotals equals a serious problem? What’s the number??

    There is no point where anecdotes become data. It simply doesn’t work that way. For data you need tighter controls on inputs. Lots of garbage remains garbage.

    If that bothers you you could try collecting some actual data. Of course if you did that you’d come to see things aren’t nearly the catastrophe you seem to think they are.

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  39. As Bob Schieffer concluded Sunday, 404Care proves Government is incapable of making anything better.

    It matters little who OFA pays to say different, at some point even leeches hanging off a week old carcass know when they’re sucking wind.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  40. If you don’t like your President, you still have to keep him.

    America could have ditched Obama in 2012. Instead they re-elected him by a large margin. Yes, you do have to abide by the laws of our democratic republic.

    Next time don’t get sucked into an echo chamber and you’ll have a better shot. Or you can nominate Cruz and wonder why he lost when all the unskewed polls said he was ahead by eleventy billion percent!!!!

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  41. 39. I have a datum that shills can only talk about data and can’t find their azz with both hands.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  42. I don’t think anybody is going to be inviting Tlaloc to bring the potato salad to the next Mensa picnic.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  43. Lies are all we get from the OFA trolls.

    SPQR (ca38c8)

  44. As Bob Schieffer concluded Sunday, 404Care proves Government is incapable of making anything better.

    Being old enough to remember life before the internet I can confidently say Schieffer has no idea what he’s talking about.

    I also imagine there are more than a few holocaust survivors that are much better off for the US government’s actions around, just to pick a random year, 1943.

    Oh, and there are all those thalidomide babies in other countries that probably would have rather they had had the FDA to prevent their horrible defects.

    Should I go on or are you thoroughly embarrassed yet of having embraced such a pathetically callow world view?

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  45. Tlaloc–

    #36: She would have reclaimed nearly all of that as a refundable tax credit.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  46. Nice a hat trick of posts containing nothing but ad hominem aimed at me. Kind of tells me all I need to know about you ability to debate my points.

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  47. 41. “re-elected him by a large margin”

    50.2% of those voting, some 50% of the eligible electorate, re-elected the Gay Prostitute. The other 50% of the electorate effectively said ‘none of the above’.

    Unfortunately 25% of the electorate having sh*t for brains are allowed to pick the POS to mess with everyone.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  48. While Tlaloc lies, remember that White House’s own backdrop of “successful” users of 404care had no one that actually had successfully gotten an actual policy.

    SPQR (ca38c8)

  49. #36: She would have reclaimed nearly all of that as a refundable tax credit.

    Your point being?

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  50. And never forget that Tlaloc celebrates the deaths of the four Americans in Benghazi – who deserved it according to him for the crime of carrying out Obama’s policies.

    SPQR (ca38c8)

  51. The other 50% of the electorate effectively said ‘none of the above’.

    I do have to find it amusing that the right often fights to disenfranchise as many as possible and loudly bemoans the ease of voting and then turns around and tries to use the low voter participation as an argument as the invalidity of any election they disagree with (while never making the same argument about say Ted Cruz).

    Then again I do have a very grim sense of humor.

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  52. AP est 3.5 million canceled insurance policies.

    SPQR (ca38c8)

  53. 45. No, ‘wee weed up smearing government’ cannot embarrass me.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  54. And never forget that Tlaloc celebrates the deaths of the four Americans in Benghazi – who deserved it according to him for the crime of carrying out Obama’s policies.

    Still lying about me, SPQR? You know perfectly well I never said I celebrated their deaths, merely that I see no reason to call the deaths of a bunch of black bag spooks a tragedy. You should also know I have no problem (actually kind of enjoy) being able to rub your lies in your face. It helps drive home the point that you aren’t dealing fairly with reality. You feel the need to retreat from reality, part of which is projecting on your ideological opponents your own fantasies of what you wish they were.

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  55. 45. No, ‘wee weed up smearing government’ cannot embarrass me.

    A pity you refuse to learn when you are so very wrong. It precludes you ever being better.

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  56. Lying about your own words, Tlaloc. That’s typical of your behavior.

    SPQR (ca38c8)

  57. Lying about your own words, Tlaloc. That’s typical of your behavior.

    My words are right there in the record for anyone who wants to read them. I’m quite confident any fair reading demonstrates exactly which of us is lying.

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  58. With so many cancelled insurance plans, and 41% average premium increases in 2014, Obama and the Democrats will be creating a new Great Depression next year.

    SPQR (ca38c8)

  59. 45. “Being old enough to remember life before the internet”

    Guess Howard J. hasn’t heard of ‘Face the Nation’.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2013/11/04/video-jay-carney-getting-pretty-tired-of-questions-about-obamacare-phone-applications/

    Touchy, touchy!

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  60. Comment by SPQR (ca38c8) — 11/4/2013 @ 2:23 pm

    Do we know its opinion on the Falujah Contractors?
    Is it the same as Kos: Fu.k ‘Em!

    Is Turdloc Kos?

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  61. Gentleman’s wager that by early december the current brouhaha over problems with obamacare doesn’t even show up on memeorandum? For that matter I’m betting by then the media will have moved on from the current focus on cancelled plans.

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  62. Tlaloc, yes. Any reading shows you said that those four got what they deserved. For the crime of carrying out Obama’s policies.

    If death is appropriate for carrying out his policies, any non hypocrite would call for Obama’s impeachment.

    But a POS like you…..

    SPQR (ca38c8)

  63. Do we know its opinion on the Falujah Contractors?

    I do have a very dim view of war profiteers. You got me there.

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  64. Tlaloc, yes. Any reading shows you said that those four got what they deserved.

    Is it really a fair reading when you make up things I never said?

    I said prefer that CIA spooks get what they deserve. I never said that those four did. But of course nuance was never your strong suit, so I’ll forgive you.

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  65. Your point being?

    That your point is full of s*it.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  66. People who say X got what they deserved know nothing of Karma.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  67. That your point is full of s*it.

    I’m genuinely curious how it is you think that follows from your apparently nonsequitur.

    My point- cancellations are happening not due to obamacare but due to insurance companies trying to game the system by locking customers into expensive bad policies before they realize they can do much better on the exchanges.

    So how does a tax refund have anything to do with that?

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  68. You feel the need to retreat from reality, part of which is projecting on your ideological opponents your own fantasies of what you wish they were.

    projection so strong it got past the event horizon…

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  69. welp, I got a midterm to take. hasta.

    Tlaloc (b1a1d2)

  70. ==My point- cancellations are happening not due to obamacare but due to insurance companies trying to game the system by locking customers into expensive bad policies before they realize they can do much better on the exchanges==

    This is what I believe is known as jumping the shark. Good allah.

    elissa (6c1958)

  71. The point of the post is that 404Care will break Healthcare in Amerikkka.

    Sure Boehner will find 80-odd men loyal and true to cross the aisle in bipartisan cooperation to fix the ACA and ‘save the best parts’.

    But all the kings horse’s patoots will not be able to swing single-payer until the entire economy comes tumbling down.

    There will be no insurance at all and healthcare will be totally a la carte.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  72. “Kind of tells me all I need to know about you ability to debate my points.”

    Tlaloc – You don’t have points. You have debunked talking points which you for some bizarre reason call facts. All you deserve here is derision.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  73. ==Sure Boehner will find 80-odd men loyal and true to cross the aisle in bipartisan cooperation==

    gg-Once again I am apparently too obtuse to understand your point. What are you saying/suggesting here?

    elissa (6c1958)

  74. What both you and Ace leave out of course is that the less generous plans aren’t a function of obamacare but rather are deceptive practices by insurance companies trying to keep their clients from finding better deals on the exchanges.

    Conflation of multiple lines of BS. The lady in question did not have substandard coverage, and was receiving world class coverage and care. There is nothing to suggest it was a “less generous” plan.

    The idea that the rules and regulations promulgated by Obama and HHS that are requiring insurers to cancel plans because they are no longer grandfathered in because they don’t carry pediatric dentistry, or maternity coverage for 60 year old men, or substance abuse coverage for a teetotaler, or abortion coverage for cloistered nuns is ridiculous.

    JD (e09bea)

  75. 64- So, a guy or gal who takes a job in logistics, freeing up a trigger puller for the front, is a “war profiteer”, so it’s all right to kill them, burn their bodies, and hang their corpses from a bridge?

    You are, like Kos, one sick a$$hole.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  76. 75. As with the Slowdown/Ceiling vote, with Amnesty and the ACA Boehner will ‘put up the good fight’ theatrics and pass something with the Senate that has the support of 95% of the Dhimmis and 30% of the GOP in the House.

    Cause that’s the way he rolls.

    Good boy.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  77. Well I think the President called those events ‘a bump in the road’ of course, he had? a diary on Kos.

    narciso (3fec35)

  78. Man, gary, I cannot see anybody on the R side “helping” the Dems with ACA as it so publicly self destructs down on them. Why on earth would they? What hints are you picking up that they might?

    elissa (6c1958)

  79. That Community Health Plan Donna of Washington State is going on was created by the community health centers, meaning that’s the “network” she’ll be stuck in, along with as many Medicaid clients they can persuade or coerce to go there.

    We’ve got one of these community health center based health plans in Mass. Can you say Sucks? But Obama admitted early on that he wanted as many insured as possible to use the CHCs for their primary care. He funneled millions to Mass. with the stimulus to beef up the CHCs here, to show his idea would work. But the feds don’t have the money to pour into the CHCs in the other states. Yeah sure, that plan is relatively cheap, but the “care” it gives you access to bites balls.

    Basta (e24e79)

  80. gary–I found this article but have seen no indication that anybody on the right is buying it.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/11/04/memo-to-republicans-rework-obamacare-dont-kill-it-and-youll-win-big/

    elissa (6c1958)

  81. 80, 82. The ‘Leadership’ has floated this balloon as recently as a month ago.

    I’ll bet I saw it at HotAir.

    And no, they won’t push a ‘fix’ but wait for it to be pushed by Reid and Co.

    I would expect the primaries to be underway before any of it takes place.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  82. Anyone here like to join a class-action lemon law suit against this president? I’ve had more than enough, thank you.

    Colonel Haiku (198f23)

  83. It wouldn’t be a day that ended in “fail” without Tlaloc
    What both you and Ace leave out of course is that the less generous plans aren’t a function of obamacare but rather are deceptive practices by insurance companies trying to keep their clients from finding better deals on the exchanges.
    — Okay, so last week’s meme was that it’s all right for the ACA to render most of the old policies useless going forward because (by ACA definition) they were “substandard”.
    And now, your response to the lady who says that none of the new policies meet her needs the way her old policy did is to claim that the new ACA-compliant plans are also substandard.
    And you’re recommending that people should go on the website and sign up, are you?

    Tlaloc quoted: The letter, which you can read here, made no mention of the insurance marketplace that was about to open, where she could shop around for other options.
    — That’s right. Nobody would even know that healthcare.gov was there if not for their current insurers encouraging them to shop around.

    All they say is she’s mistaken about saying obamacare is the cause of her insurance company folding when there is evidence they were folding well before obamacare went into effect.
    — That’s right. It says IN THE ARTICLE that Jerry Brown’s sweetheart crony capitalism deals to select insurers have directly resulted in a reduction of competition in California.
    Now remind me, WHAT was Obama’s promise on the effect that the ACA would have on competition?

    America could have ditched Obama in 2012. Instead they re-elected him by a large margin. Yes, you do have to abide by the laws of our democratic republic.
    — In all seriousness, WHY do you persist in spewing this “large margin” lie.

    Icy (f9351f)

  84. We’re in ‘Billy Madison’ territory, except Sandler is a decent guy, so it’s more Kevin Kline’s ‘Otto;

    narciso (3fec35)

  85. More Tlaloc
    I never said I celebrated their deaths, merely that I see no reason to call the deaths of a bunch of black bag spooks a tragedy.
    — The U.S. Ambassador to Libya was a ‘black bag spook’ was he? Careful, son; you’re starting to sound like Glenn Beck!

    Gentleman’s wager that by early december the current brouhaha over problems with obamacare doesn’t even show up on memeorandum?
    — Because the problems will be gone? or, because you think everyone will be used to it and just accept them by then?

    For that matter I’m betting by then the media will have moved on from the current focus on cancelled plans.
    — By “early December”? Such as December 15th, which is the DEADLINE for those with canceled plans to enroll in a new plan and avoid a gap in coverage?

    My point- cancellations are happening not due to obamacare but due to insurance companies trying to game the system by locking customers into expensive bad policies before they realize they can do much better on the exchanges.
    — So, not only are the new ACA-compliant plans bad, but they’re actually WORSE than the old, non-compliant plans?
    You should pass this one along to the Kos kids and the HuffPo. Knowing them, they’ll probably run with it.

    Icy (f9351f)

  86. Saying that someone got what they deserved, Tlaloc, is closer to my characterisation of your comment as “celebrating” their deaths than any of your misrepresentations.

    That is why you are a lisr, Tlaloc, and I am not.

    SPQR (768505)

  87. My point- cancellations are happening not due to obamacare but due to insurance companies trying to game the system by locking customers into expensive bad policies before they realize they can do much better on the exchanges.

    Your point is a brazen lie. Like all of your claims, Tlaloc. The insurance companies are doing exactly what Obama requires of them.

    SPQR (768505)

  88. Do you know what you get when you mix a teaspoon of dog sh*t into a gallon of ice cream?

    A gallon of dog sh*t.

    Pious Agnostic (ac89e5)

  89. a gallon of DoggieDookberry Swirl®?

    Colonel Haiku (ca566e)

  90. Y’know that thing about “liberal projection”?

    And, remember Rep. Alan Grayson telling us in 2009 that the GOP healthcare plan was ‘DIE QUICKLY’ ?

    Based on this poor woman’s health and insurance struggles, looks like “Die Quickly” is pretty much the essence of Obamacare, too.

    (There were a lot of “unexamined assumptions” sold to L-I-V’s in this monstrosity, weren’t there? “You can keep your insurance” as long as your insurance company doesn’t make cost-of-living adjustments to your premiums or co-pays.
    “SURE, we’ll cover pre-existing conditions — but you have to be treated by the doctor we select for you, and any treatment has to be provided within your home county”. Wonder what will be the NEXT unintended consequence of Obama’s glorious “signature achievement” ??)

    A_Nonny_Mouse (57cacf)

  91. SPQR – they are going for the big lie strategy, surrounded by a series of smaller lies.

    JD (5c1832)

  92. My point- cancellations are happening not due to obamacare but due to insurance companies trying to game the system by locking customers into expensive bad policies before they realize they can do much better on the exchanges

    Wut? Just wait until the identity thefts start. I linked an article about the security failure of healthcare.gov. Pay a penalty or risk your personal information. I guess that’s a choice!

    Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 (f7d5ba)

  93. 35. Comment by Comanche Voter (caea51) — 11/4/2013 @ 2:02 pm

    Another interesting element in Sundby’s piece is the assertion that policies issued under California Cover (the name of the exchange) won’t be usable across county lines. </i.

    They probably ask for the county, but I think there more counties than insurance districts.

    If her assertion is true, does that mean that someone in Fresno or Kern Counties, or someone in one of the cow counties in the Sierra can’t come to these metropolitan medical centers to get treatment under a California Cover policy?

    Very possibly yes. She says she can’t get two places under any policy offered to her on the exchange.

    Sammy Finkelman (71b0bf)

  94. Was this lady’s prior policy substandard? Nope.

    JD (5c1832)

  95. All of Tlaloc’s posts boil down to the same thing:

    Since the readers of Patterico are conservative, they are not smart enough to think for themselves, so it is up to him to highlight the error of their ways and bring them to the truth.

    Over and over and over again.

    On the road to Chicago, he saw the light.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  96. The authoritarian collectivists think the rubes and peasants are too stupid to protect themselves, and their families. How could they possibly make a wise decision, an educated decision, unless Teh One and SanFranNan dictate to them what they must buy.

    JD (5c1832)

  97. Tlaloc is sooooo smart, that he’s approaching age 40, and still hasn’t figured out a way to support himself and his family.

    He’s that smart !

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  98. Tlaloc is never discouraged by the fact that we have discredited every single lie he has written.

    SPQR (768505)

  99. I dunno, maybe the CIA spooks were giving someone else what they deserved… I wasn’t there to play Jesus

    On to health care, I agree there are some plans out there whose value is not recognized.
    Unfortunately most of them seem to come with a “Do Not Resuscitate” clause.

    Value seems to have been redefined again while I wasn’t paying attention.

    Sham wow had a two for one value pak as long as you paid the extra shipping and handling

    steveg (794291)

  100. JD:

    Was this lady’s prior policy substandard? Nope.

    Her insurance policy enabled her go to multiple major medical institutions for cancer treatment, including the #1 cancer treatment center in the world, and her policy has paid over a million dollars on her care. Now she can choose a policy that will let her go to one facility in her state — either a major cancer center a significant distance from her home, or a local facility near her home — but not both. None of the policies she can buy will provide care at the #1 cancer center.

    It’s clear which are the substandard policies here, and it isn’t the policy she lost.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  101. Fast forward a month, and Donna was able to log onto Washington’s marketplace and shop for insurance. And what did she find? Options. A LifeWise plan with the same deductible they offered her outside the exchange was a little cheaper. Plans with a lower deductible had the same or lower premiums as the LifeWise plan. What she ended up buying was a plan through Community Health Plan of Washington with a $250 deductible.

    And crucially, she also discovered she would qualify for a federal tax subsidy that would knock her monthly premium to $80. Her daughter could enroll in Medicaid, at no cost to the family.
    Comment by Tlaloc (b1a1d2) — 11/4/2013 @ 2:02 pm

    Politics and partisanship aside, I wonder how accurate and reliable is the blog page that Tlaloc linked to earlier today? TPM.com is a leftist outfit, so I’m very wary of its honesty and overall take on things. I’ve witnessed too many instances when something spun by liberals, on first glance, looks fairly innocuous, perhaps even good, but upon closer inspection turns out to be pure, unadulterated BS. So I’m not sure if the example of “Donna” should be taken at face value or not.

    Mark (58ea35)

  102. It’s founder Josh Marshall, was obviously Journolist, so are a number of current and past contributors, like Sargent of the Post, among others.

    narciso (3fec35)

  103. president food stamp will you … will you caress my tumors with your boundless compassion?

    Yes?

    I knew it.

    You’re such a doll don’t let nobody tell you different.

    Self-absorbed loser that I am – I’m kind of a little worried about losing my doctors and my hospital – but c’mon what does any of that mean in the big picture? I’m so ashamed of my selfishness sometimes, but when I swallow my petty anxieties, in my heart what I feel is just

    a surge of gratitude is the only way I know to describe it

    thank you

    Thank you SO much for the obamacares.

    And your sweet caresses on my raging all-consuming tumors.

    You complete me dude.

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  104. Stalin made life AND DEATH miserable for all of those who didn’t follow his plan like sheep. What is so hard to understand about Obama? He is a Sociopath and a Narcissist. He doesn’t give a fiddlers fux about YOU.

    Gus (70b624)

  105. Mark, Economics is quite simple. If you are REQUIRED to provide MORE SERVICES and not ALLOWED to charge for them. How long do you stay in business?
    Obama and the Commies are requiring INSURANCE COMPANIES to GIVE AWAY, FREE PUNCH AND FREE PIE!!!

    Who pays for that?

    Gus (70b624)

  106. So Stalin is on his deathbed and Kruschev is by his side. Stalin says to Kruschev, “Nikita, I am worried. You will be my successor but what if the people won’t follow you?” And Kruschev says, “Then they will follow you, Josip.”

    nk (dbc370)

  107. Nk. Awesome. I hear LIBTARD talking heads starting to talk about FIXING… the BIG LIE OBAMACARE.
    If you married a Woman, and found out soon after, that she had lied and deceived and fraudulently led you to the altar. WOULD YOU FIX THE MARRIAGE??

    Gus (70b624)

  108. 99. Aye, there’s the nub. Our difficulty in divining just what might be true of Howard J. betrays a genetic confusion at the source.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  109. The problem was evident from the start but now the Lamestream uncovers:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-05/next-obamacare-debacle-massive-doctor-shortage

    Their ears, eyes, nose and mouth.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  110. Single-payer equals lines around the block.

    Empty shelves.

    Declining life expectancies.

    Free needles and condoms.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  111. If you are REQUIRED to provide MORE SERVICES and not ALLOWED to charge for them. How long do you stay in business?
    Obama and the Commies are requiring INSURANCE COMPANIES to GIVE AWAY, FREE PUNCH AND FREE PIE!!!
    Who pays for that?
    Comment by Gus (70b624) — 11/4/2013 @ 9:44 pm

    — Not that I’m in the habit of defending this crap-sandwich law, but price controls are one thing that’s relatively absent from it. Premiums and deductibles are higher BECAUSE of the pre-existing coverage mandate, BECAUSE of the covered services mandate, and BECAUSE of the ‘same cost regardless of gender’ mandate [the law mandates that men and women be charged the same, so the companies raised rates for men to match the rates for women. Affordable!]

    Icy (f9351f)

  112. If you were worried about privacy on the healthcare exchanges, you can now worry about fraud …

    WASHINGTON — The Affordable Care Act is the biggest new health care program in decades, but the Obama administration has ruled that neither the federal insurance exchange nor the federal subsidies paid to insurance companies on behalf of low-income people are “federal health care programs.”

    The surprise decision, disclosed last week, exempts subsidized health insurance from a law that bans rebates, kickbacks, bribes and certain other financial arrangements in federal health programs, stripping law enforcement of a powerful tool used to fight fraud in other health care programs, like Medicare.

    The main purpose of the anti-kickback law, as described by federal courts in scores of Medicare cases, is to protect patients and taxpayers against the undue influence of money on medical decisions.

    … Chicago comes to America

    Neo (d1c681)

  113. Karl! is back and he’s kicking foodstampcare’s ass

    http://hotair.com/archives/2013/11/05/obamacares-latest-talking-points-bad-apples-and-road-apples/

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  114. Health care isn’t the only thing Obama wants to change. Obama is also transforming the military.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  115. you can’t have a fascist whorestate and a freedom-minded military for long

    it’s a historical certainty

    the poets have sung of this for many cycles of the earth’s journey around the sun

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  116. Health care isn’t the only thing Obama wants to change

    For those who might not bother to click on links in this forum, I thought the snippets that illustrate the most contemptible examples of what’s going on in today’s “Goddamn America” should be posted below.

    Keep in mind that the attitude and politics that allowed a Nidal Hasan free reign until it was too late apparently dates back quite a few years, perhaps even before 2009.

    wnd.com: Nine generals and flag officers have been relieved of duty under Obama just this year – widely viewed as an extraordinary number – and several sources put the total number of senior officers purged during the five years of the Obama administration as close to 200.

    In an email to WND, [Navy Capt. Joseph] John outlined what he termed “a very few of the most egregious” aspects of Obama’s “attack” on the military over the past five years. He referred specifically to the Rules of Engagement in combat that were put in place after Obama took office, asserting that the changes resulted in very high casualty rates in Afghanistan, including the loss of 17 members of SEAL Team 6 in one incident.

    Echoing what other high-ranking officers have told WND, he said the Pentagon policy of repealing “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” resulted in the first openly “gay” “major military force in the world.” The development has brought about “massive” sexual assaults on “thousands of straight military male personnel that have been covered up,” he said.

    He also cited military chaplains’ being prohibited from reading letters in the pulpit from their cardinals during Sunday services as a restriction of freedom of religion.

    These and other “social experiments,” he said, have constituted “a massive assault to restructure the military mindset, destroyed unit cohesion, unit morale and is negatively affecting combat effectiveness.”

    Physical fitness qualifications for “tip of the spear units” such as the Rangers, SEALs, Green Berets and combat infantry are being downgraded, he said, so “women can be placed into those units.” Likewise, he added, “women have been assigned to submarines and ships resulting in relationships at sea that have broken up military families.”

    washingtontimes.com, June 2013: The U.S. military is embracing a celebration of homosexuals in the ranks this month by sending out a gay pride poster and a directive to commands, while planning a Pentagon symposium that will be attended by Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel.

    In the aftermath of ending the ban on open gays in the military, the Pentagon last June recognized Gay Pride Month for the first time in a subdued recognition of uniformed and civilian gays. As defense secretary at the time, Leon E. Panetta gave a public statement, and a Pentagon event featured an active-duty gay Marine, a gay Air Force civilian lawyer and a lesbian who had served in the Army.

    “Secretary Hagel looks forward to participating in this year’s DOD Pride event at the Pentagon
    on Tuesday, June 25 to celebrate LGBT Pride Month,” Pentagon spokesman George Little said.

    “Secretary Hagel is also looking forward to welcoming [senior White House adviser] Valerie Jarrett to the Pentagon, who will represent President Obama in delivering the keynote address at the event,” Mr. Little said.

    Ancient Rome had bread and circuses, so if it was good enough for them, it’s good enough for us.

    Mark (58ea35)

  117. Teh President Chauncey Armslength Blameshifter!!!

    Colonel Haiku (e807c3)

  118. In reading Karl’s piece I wondered how many youngish people today even know what a “road apple” is. Am I misunderestimating them?

    elissa (6c1958)

  119. Over here
    Over there
    We’ll be wearing backless chaps
    So beware!
    Cuz teh Yanks are coming, teh Yanks are coming…

    Colonel Haiku (e807c3)

  120. they’re pretty damn stupid

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  121. Can’t have a fundamental transformation of America without transforming the military.
    He has a Senate that will not oppose him, a Supreme Court that has opposed him on little (the Lord Almighty help us if something happens to one of Alito, Scalia, or Thomas, even Roberts and Kennedy),
    and he is getting a military that will not oppose him.
    And we know he has a media that hasn’t opposed him (we’ll see what happens in the course of ObamaCare).

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  122. elissa,

    I’ve never heard that term before and I’m old. I’m not that well-versed in slang, but could it be a regional saying?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  123. Interesting DRJ! I thought “road apple” was a common if not universal euphemism for horse poop pretty much everywhere in the days when horses were the main mode of transport–even in cities. “Watch out, Maude. Don’t step on that road apple and ruin your new high button shoes.” I would have thought Texans would be very familiar with the term road apple with as many fancy boots and horses and as much resulting horse manure as there is there. Historically what did ladies and other refined folk call it in Texas?

    elissa (e54cf8)

  124. Not to be confused with stepping in cow pies. Have you heard of those?

    elissa (e54cf8)

  125. Never heard of a road apple either. Must be an upper Midwest phrase.

    JD (5c1832)

  126. oh. Being a very provincial pikachu I been steeped in these sorts of idioms since I was little.

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  127. I’ve never lived in any rural area, but I know what road apples and cow pies are. I’m only in my 50s.

    I know a lot of terms for that.

    Pious Agnostic (c45233)

  128. Karl may be very disappointed to find out his rhetorical cleverness is not being appreciated.

    elissa (e54cf8)

  129. 126. Like Eskimoes and snow, apples seen in their natural state, on and under trees are part and parcel to the multiplication of descriptors.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  130. feets, good thing you were steeped in those idioms rather than stepped in them.

    Buffalo Chips, anyone??

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  131. “Must be an upper Midwest phrase.”

    JD – Nope. Had em out East too.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  132. A Bantha road apple, a real road apple that is! Beware of Krayt Dragon road apples you must, Make you feel like Sir Isaac Newton they will!

    Yoda (c1890a)

  133. And AZ, too.

    Gazzer (17a127)

  134. In the end, it’s all horsesh*t.

    Colonel Haiku (0e505e)

  135. elissa,

    I’ve heard cow pies and buffalo chips. This website — and I have no idea what it is or whether it’s reliable, although it does seem to be the king of manure slang — claims road apples is Midwestern slang.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  136. Refined Texas ladies don’t talk about horseshit in public. The rest of us just call it horseshit.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  137. Cow pies and buffalo chips are both cow dung, not horse dung. We have a lot of cow dung and it’s messier, so there are times when you have to talk about it.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  138. If that was addressed to me, DRJ, you missed my point.

    Colonel Haiku (86ce72)

  139. I went to see old mister Fair the other day

    he’s a guy what welds for me when I got something needs welding

    old black guy – seriously old – and he never wants to take my monies so I say it’s not for you Mr. Fair – you spend this on the ladies

    and he says alright but they’re awful spoiled already

    he came here from texas back in the 40s – they didn’t have doctors when he was in texas cause they didn’t have a lot of money so when him or his brothers or sisters would take to coughing his mama would make them cow patty tea… it’s a real thing

    In pursuit of good health…

    The following is, as near as I can recall it, the recipe for “Cow Chip Tea” as related to me by a friend, a person of color from East Texas, with whom I worked for many years. It is said to be a powerful expectorate which no chest congestion can withstand.

    Cow Chip Tea

    Indications: For the treatment of chest congestion.

    Preparation: Find a fresh cow pattie, nice wet one that’s good and green from a cow eating lots of fresh green grass. Scoop it up and put in a kettle with fresh clear water. Boil for a good while. Strain several times through layers of clean cheese cloth until you have a perfectly clear, light green tea.

    Usage: Serve the sufferer a large cup of Cow Chip Tea, full to the brim. Within an hour the subject should begin to cough up the congestion from which he suffers.

    Note: Repeat treatment as necessary. np

    http://users.hal-pc.org/~norman/onlyintx.html

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  140. ?????
    What part of “Buffalo” gets translated to “cow” in Texanese?
    Not everything big and brown with horns is a cow, ya’ know.

    And I thought there was a suggestion that “chips” had dried, allowing them to be used as fire material or discus throwing.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  141. If you ever lived on a dairy, you would truly know how messy “cow pies” are, especially when the corrals are about 12″ thick, fence-to-fence, with the stuff, or after a rain – which is when we’d call the guys from the local fertilizer company to come and skim the corrals with their skip-loader – and they would actually pay us for the privilege.
    Now, what with EPA/Haz-Mat/etc. rules, the dairy has to pay them.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  142. feets,
    If my mama wanted to make that for me, I would stop coughing right away too.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  143. 143- …more…

    Growing up in that environment has proved invaluable in allowing me to identify, and endure, Liberal/Progressive/Democrat campaign themes.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  144. Horse apples, is the one I learned. See, there are chestnuts which are edible and horse-chestnuts a/k/a buckeyes which are not; and there are radishes which are edible and horseradish which is you know; and there are apples and …. But I’m not a native speaker.

    nk (dbc370)

  145. So, nk, origins of words must be a Greek specialty even when the derivation isn’t from Greek…

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  146. it was a different time Mr. Dr.

    all I can tell you is Mr. Fair is pushing 90 and he’s in pretty darn good shape – got a full head of hair and all his faculties

    he’s got himself set up in one of the few surviving quonsets here in Burbank – they were very common at one time – I love going over there cause on some land in Texas we had – there was a sort of quonset graveyard – war surplus my grandfather and his partner dealt in for a number of years

    it made for some good hiding and seeking and they were surprisingly cool inside and they’re sturdy and purposeful relics of a time when America too was sturdy and purposeful

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  147. Colonel Haiku,

    I was responding to an earlier question from elissa, but I did see your comment and I thought it was clever.

    DRJ (8b9d41)

  148. Words have magic, MD. “Spell” is not a homonym.

    nk (dbc370)

  149. Barack Obama has stepped in a cow pie.
    So did America—by electing him.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  150. MD,

    Once it’s dried, I think you can use any manure as fuel if you have to.

    Also, I’m not sure why the term ‘buffalo chip’ is used to refer to cow manure. I haven’t been around buffalo that much but I have been around cows, and I suspect both produce manure that is similar in appearance. If so, that’s probably why they are used interchangeably in cow country. (Cow manure doesn’t look at all like horse manure. Horse manure is much easier to spot and avoid.)

    DRJ (8b9d41)

  151. I haven’t been around dairies, askeptic, and I didn’t know that. What a crazy world.

    DRJ (8b9d41)

  152. DRJ,

    I think that somewhere back in the folk lore of Texas, there was a recent immigrant from out east who couldn’t tell the difference between a cow and a buffalo and was the original person who made the mistake;
    but the fellow owned the ranch, and no one wanted to correct him.

    I could be wrong, but I dare you to prove me so.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  153. There should have been a 😉 after that, just to be clear.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  154. Sounds right to me, MD. You know how shy and polite we Texans are.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  155. You got your horse apple
    In teh middle
    horse apple in teh middle of teh road
    horse apple in teh middle of teh road
    and it’s stinkin’ to high heaven

    Colonel Haiku (90595d)

  156. Buffalo Chips….

    The Plains Indians did not see a lot of cows before invasion of settlers, nor did anyone else on the Plains before the initiation of large-scale cattle operations.
    And, why are these “cow pies” and not “steer pies”?

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  157. City lady driving down a farm road, sees a farmer leaning against his fence and stops to chat. She asks, “Can you tell me why that cow doesn’t have horns?” The farmer looks at her close for a minute, leans more comfortably against his fence, and explains: “Well, ma’am, some cows don’t have horns until they’ve reached a certain age. And some cows don’t have horns until they’ve calved. Some cows naturally lose their horns with age. And still others never have horns at all. But the reason that cow doesn’t have any horns is because it’s a horse.”

    nk (dbc370)

  158. President Chauncey Blameshifter… all lies all of the time.

    Colonel Haiku (1cfc51)

  159. Barack Obama is “the Richie Incognito” of American Presidents.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  160. “He’s not content to lie to you in teh daytime
    Oh yeah he wants to lie to you all of teh time
    Teh only time he feels all right is when he lies
    Hey peeps he wants to lie to you all of teh time
    Oh yeah all lies and all of teh time”

    – teh Finks

    Colonel Haiku (42710d)

  161. Barack Obama is “the Richie Incognito” of American Presidents.

    What’s up with that, anyway? “National Felons League now includes extortion for your one-stop criminal shopping needs.”

    nk (dbc370)

  162. Even Annie Lennox of the Eurythmics is posing the question, “Barack, would you lie to me ?”

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  163. National Felons League.

    That’s a pretty good one.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  164. Just for the record Amerikkka,

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx

    your Massa does not give a rip.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  165. “Lies! Lies!
    He’s tellin’ you that it’s all true
    Lies! Lies!
    His word is nothin’ but dog doo
    Some day you’re gonna get real sick
    But you won’t find him around
    Lies! Lie- ee-ies
    You’ll die like a dog”

    – teh Snickerbockers

    Colonel Haiku (ee5253)

  166. Isn’t it about the witching hour when Howard J. makes its appearance until quitting time?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  167. I am proud to have at least partly inspired and contributed to all the language learnings on this website today. I work here is done.

    elissa (e54cf8)

  168. It was interesting, elissa. Thanks for inspiring this discussion.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  169. Also, there are some clever, humorous people commenting here. Thanks for the laughs.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  170. Having grown up on the Great Plains and moved both from the path, I can assure you that buffalo chips and cow pies are different things. Buffalo chip is a lot closer to a horse apple. The as-released item is drier and firmer. This may be more a matter of diet and exercise than digestive tract.

    htom (412a17)

  171. FYI, FWIW, etc.,
    Years ago a Wisconsin governor wanted to change the state animal to the diary cow, with a rotation each year among certain breads, Jerseys, Holsteins, and such…
    “Longhorns” or “Buffaloes” are pretty good names for a football team,
    “Holsteins”, not so much.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  172. We even have someone knowledgeable about buffalo in our midst. Isn’t the internet fun?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  173. htom, any definitive studies on heat output in the combustion of dried buffalo vs cow vs horse?

    And I saw on Myth-Busters once that dried lion dung can be polished to a degree that it can be said to “shine”.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  174. Even if the average Wisconsin offensive tackle is in the same weight range.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  175. Comment by Colonel Haiku (ee5253) — 11/5/2013 @ 12:56 pm

    I can see Rachel Sweet “go-go-ing” to that.

    felipe (70ff7e)

  176. I love fun mascots, MD, and Texas has a few good ones. Some of the lesser-known cow-related mascots are the Hereford Whitefaces, the Marfa Shorthorns, and the Falfurrias Fighting Jerseys. And so you won’t think we’re too focused on bovines, there’s also the Springtown Fighting Porcupines, the Mesquite Skeeters, and the Robstown Cotton Pickers and their Big Red Band from Pickerland.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  177. My high school’s teams were the OWLS. They were generally pretty smart dudes but didn’t win athletic contests a lot. I do believe names matter. The debate team did very well and I think the name intimidated opponents.

    elissa (e54cf8)

  178. Like the Rice Owls. In the old days, they were the brains of the Southwest Conference. They didn’t win much but when they did, it was because they were smarter and more disciplined. They also had a Stanford-style, crazy fun band.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  179. Back to the original and un-entertaining topic, apparently there is a federal statute saying “incentives”/bribes can’t be given to influence a person to pick one fed-funded health plan vs another. Today it was declared the statute does not pertain to ObamaCare (just Medicare, I guess).
    Read, navigators can get paid a bounty to direct people to one plan vs another, for one thing.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  180. Power corrupts. The only limits to their corruption are the things they haven’t thought of yet.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  181. He can’t hide his lyin’ eyes
    and his jive is a thin disguise
    He thought by now you’d realize
    Yo healthcare’s gone and all you got’s his lies

    Colonel Haiku (2cef89)

  182. The White House asks insurers to help make the bad news go away:

    The White House on Tuesday asked health insurers for help in quelling the growing furor over the cancellation of insurance plans under ObamaCare.

    In a meeting at the White House, Obama’s chief of staff Denis McDonough asked insurance executives to explain to customers who are losing their plans what new options are available under ObamaCare and what new subsidies they might qualify for.

    “He emphasized the need for all involved in the marketplaces, including the administration, issuers and other stakeholders, both federal and private, to ramp up communication and education efforts to consumers who have received or might receive letters about their individual market plans changing,” White House press secretary Jay Carney said.

    Re-educating the public. It’s an offer they can’t refuse.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  183. The Kenyan bush Doctor should take a lie detector test.

    mg (31009b)

  184. Comment by MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/5/2013 @ 1:36 pm

    Well it would aptly describe the racial mixture of the players (mostly).

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  185. Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 11/5/2013 @ 1:49 pm

    Gotta go with Robstown.
    Classic!

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  186. In a meeting at the White House, Obama’s chief of staff Denis McDonough asked insurance executives to explain to customers who are losing their plans what new options are available under ObamaCare and what new subsidies they might qualify for.

    And, in an honest environment, those execs would respond (on camera):
    Hey, we didn’t create this fustercluck, and we’re not going to get involved in trying to unwind it – that’s the President’s (and Sibelius’) job!

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  187. In a meeting at the White House, Obama’s chief of staff Denis McDonough asked insurance executives to explain to customers who are losing their plans what new options are available under ObamaCare and what new subsidies they might qualify for.

    DRJ – Double Heh.

    No thank you, Mr. President. You built that.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  188. Apparently, if you like your healthcare plan and doctor, you can go fu.k yourself. Period.

    Colonel Haiku (1d6084)

  189. DRJ,

    Shouldn’t Marfa have simply called themselves the Lights ?

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  190. They should but I figure the shorthorns were there before the lights.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  191. the Marfa Lights viewing center was a gift from Clayton Williams

    in honor of his dead mom Boopsie Williams

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  192. MD — at a guess, the heat output of burning well-dried dung is about the same regardless of the critter. Might go up a bit if you used moist dung to make cakes of leaves, twigs, … firewood is mostly the same, if you measure BTUs per pound of wood (hardwoods are heavier, so they have more BTUs per cord, which is a measure of volume.)

    htom (412a17)

  193. 102. Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 11/4/2013 @ 7:13 pm

    None of the policies she can buy will provide care at the #1 cancer center.

    None of the policies she can buy on the exchange, that is.

    But she’s not limited to the exchange.

    Read the article carefully.

    My choice is to get coverage through the government health exchange and lose access to my cancer doctors, or pay much more for insurance outside the exchange (the quotes average 40% to 50% more) for the privilege of starting over with an unfamiliar insurance company and impaired benefits. Countless hours searching for non-exchange plans have uncovered nothing that compares well with my existing coverage….You would think it would be simple to find a health-exchange plan that allows me, living in San Diego, to continue to see my primary oncologist at Stanford University and my primary care doctors at the University of California, San Diego. Not so… So if I go with a health-exchange plan, I must choose between Stanford and UCSD.

    It’s clear which are the substandard policies here, and it isn’t the policy she lost.

    Oh, yes. Obama’s definition of better and worse is based entirely on services covered, as if there could be no differences between one doctor or one set of doctors and another.

    Sammy Finkelman (9e0380)

  194. Horse apples, is the one I learned.

    Comment by nk (dbc370) — 11/5/2013 @ 10:57 am

    Never heard manure referred to as a horse apple and I grew up in NE Texas. Only horse apples I know of come from the Bois ‘d arc tree (pronounced locally as boardark) better known as an Osage Orange. One little bit of info, only the female produces the fruit and also has the thorns that will flatten even tractor tires! Also it is a very hard wood, almost as hard as Ironwood, once had a billy club made from it. You could hit steel light posts with it and dent the metal, not even scratch the club itself.

    http://www.dirtdoctor.com/Bois-d-arc-fruit-Horse-Apples_vq364.htm

    FYI, FWIW, etc.,
    Years ago a Wisconsin governor wanted to change the state animal to the diary cow,

    Comment by MD in Philly (f9371b) — 11/5/2013 @ 1:36 pm

    Never seen one of those “diary” cows before, been to Bovine University have they? 😆

    Yoda (c1890a)

  195. One question! How do they hold their pencils?

    Yoda (c1890a)

  196. Wisconsin is a great state, even the cows are educated, what can I say?
    They dictate.

    I remember Osage Oranges being called “Hedge Apples”
    at least that’s what the cows called them.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  197. 163 @Incognito. Latest news is taht the coach of the Miami Dolphins asked him to “toughen up” Jonathan Martin.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/dolphins-coaches-told-incognito-toughen-martin-report-article-1.1508027

    Sammy Finkelman (9e0380)


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