Patterico's Pontifications

10/26/2013

Report: Counter-Intelligence Official Warned Soldiers Not to Donate to Tea Party or Christian Groups

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 12:38 pm

Washington Times:

Don’t donate to the tea party or to evangelical Christian groups — that was the message soldiers at a pre-deployment briefing at Fort Hood said they received from a counter-intelligence agent who headed up the meeting.

If you do, you could face punishment — that was the other half of the message, as reported by Fox News.

The briefing was Oct. 17, and about a half-hour of it was devoted to discussion about how perceived radical groups — like tea party organizations and the Christian-based American Family Association — were “tearing the country apart,” one unnamed soldier said, to Fox News.

Among the remarks the agent allegedly made: Military members who donate to these groups would be subject to discipline under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the soldier reported.

I read this story and became curious to learn the specific rules governing military donations to political groups. In my research, I found Department of Defense Directive 1344.10 (.pdf), which states in relevant part:

4.1.1. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty may:

. . . .

4.1.1.7. Make monetary contributions to a political organization, party, or committee favoring a particular candidate or slate of candidates, subject to the limitations under section 441a of title 2, United States Code (U.S.C.) (Reference (d)); section 607 of title 18, U.S.C. (Reference (e)); and other applicable law.

. . . .

4.1.1.9. Attend partisan and nonpartisan political fundraising activities, meetings, rallies, debates, conventions, or activities as a spectator when not in uniform and when no inference or appearance of official sponsorship, approval, or endorsement can reasonably be drawn.

On the other hand, some activities are prohibited:

4.1.2. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty shall not:

4.1.2.1. Participate in partisan political fundraising activities (except as permitted in subparagraph 4.1.1.7.), rallies, conventions (including making speeches in the course thereof), management of campaigns, or debates, either on one’s own behalf or on that of another, without respect to uniform or inference or appearance of official sponsorship, approval, or endorsement. Participation includes more than mere attendance as a spectator. (See subparagraph 4.1.1.9.)

As described, the instructions given to the soldiers are inconsistent with DoD policy. Without a recording of the briefing, however, I am reluctant to draw sweeping conclusions about what was said. Perhaps the counterintelligence agent warned soldiers not to engage in prohibited partisan fundraising activities, and his or her comments were interpreted as covering permitted activity.

Or perhaps what is reported in the story is exactly what happened. (The details about the agent railing about how these groups harm the country corroborate this interpretation.)

We don’t know for sure.

It’s worth digging deeper, though, given this administration’s documented use of government to abuse those who hold opposing political views.

114 Responses to “Report: Counter-Intelligence Official Warned Soldiers Not to Donate to Tea Party or Christian Groups”

  1. Ding.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  2. If there ever was a more blatant violation of the Hatch Act than the one committed by this counter-intelligence agent, I’ve never seen it.

    Unfortunately that’s par for the course in this administration. Both HHS Sec Sebilius and DefSec Hagel have blatantly violated the Hatch Act.

    Steve57 (022c57)

  3. So much for political free speech, freedom of association, a neutral military regarding domestic politics, etc.

    If widespread, threats like this could reduce the number of conservative soldiers (likely to be the backbone of the Army) who re-up at the end of their enlistment.

    OT – The Army announced this week it is disbanding an additional 10 Brigade Combat Teams en route to a 400,000 size force.

    in_awe (7c859a)

  4. C’mon, guys.
    It’s Obama’s Army. Or whatever.
    He won the election, so he gets to make up the rules.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  5. It’s all part of the plan. I read recently that the repeal of Don’t Ask and the constant promotion of military based on sexual orientation, rather than merit, is designed to rid the forces of their traditionally more conservative members. Likewise, JEF has been firing most of the higher ups that we would consider outstanding officers in favor of the GLBT community. It’s all going swimmingly for Pres. Kardashian.

    Gazzer (a55a11)

  6. However Major Hasan apparently could contributte to the Pakistani Taliban, so there is that.

    narciso (3fec35)

  7. …and at Ft Hood, no less.

    Gazzer (a55a11)

  8. Oh Good Allah, USC has hired the former Tony Villar as a faculty member for its Public Policy program.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  9. Christofascist xianist godbags!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  10. Trusted adviser SPLC will define who is a hate group for Obama’s military, thank you very much.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  11. This is where non-MSM information is so vital. Right now we have a weird “short attention span theatre” mentality going on in the country. It is most pronounced among the Left, and I think it originates in the concept of “my side is cosmically good, which means I am cosmically good…so whatever I do to your evil side is perfectly okay.”

    The Right needs to guard against this meme, as well. And some folks on the Right do it, too.

    But the Left is awful on this topic, because they were promised a bill of goods by this Administration. They were lied to, repeatedly, throughout two elections. So either they are “all in” or they need to admit that they were fools. And they will never, ever admit to being fools.

    The Left are the smart people, remember?

    So….

    Part A: Delaying Obamacare is the worst thing in the world, and is the fault of the Republicans.

    A week later:

    Part B: Delaying Obamacare may be necessary, and it is the fault of the Republicans.

    Or, as you have been reading:

    Part A: “Death panels” will never happen under Obamacare, and are the sick fantasies of Sarah Palin.

    To, according to Slate magazine:

    Part B: “Death panels will be a necessary and good thing to help provide better health care to more people.”

    “Cognitive dissonance” does not begin to describe what is going on.

    Any one of us can come up with myriad examples of this kind of hypocrisy. And the media mostly sits there and reports it, without any kind of “history” to prior statements, promises, etc.

    For example, the recent business where Harry Reid *again* personally maligns a member of Congress (he lied about a Presidential candidate the last time, from the floor of the Senate). Yet no one holds him accountable for his lies, which aren’t even due to misinformation, but a quite intentional bid for power. Why, I remember the press all over GWB, asking him if he wanted to apologize for policy choices.

    We don’t hear much of that this time.

    Go look at Facebook, where people like that nasty Robert Reich out and out lie, and everyone trumpets it, because “being liberal” means that you are nice and don’t like to see widows and handicapped people and children starve. Like the old unilateral disarmament group that called themselves “Physicians for Social Responsibility.” How can a decent person be against that?

    Reich claimed that there are fewer government employees now than in the late 1960s. And that the problem is the contract workers. So it’s a twofer: promoting government control of all things and maligning people with independent businesses. But do have a look at the number of government employees in 1968 versus 2013.

    No one says to Reich, whoa, buddy. Where is your source for that assertion?

    And if you think it is bad now, wait until the humorless President Hilary Clinton arrives for two terms (because Republicans and Conservatives feel it necessary to smack each other around instead of preventing these kinds of people from getting into office). I hope I am wrong, but I don’t think I am.

    We are in real trouble. The Statists (and they are both parties) are on a roll. And a third party historically works against “conservative” principles (Teddy Roosevelt helped Woodrow Wilson into office, and Ross Perot gave us the Clintons). I just shake my head.

    And all this just gives more cover and support to the “most transparent Administration in history.”

    And that is true, actually…but not in the way they meant it. Their motives are indeed transparent, all the while as we bicker and carry on. And my children are at risk because of it.

    Time to go play with my children, and step away from politics. And pray.

    Simon Jester (d3acfc)

  12. Yes, Gazzer, that’s why the survey of the troops about letting gays serve openly was so badly skewed.

    It wasn’t really anonymous, according to my friends who were still in. They were assigned unique passwords to take the “anonymous” survey. Every single officer and senior enlisted I knew did not participate since they knew full well that they’d be identified and marked for retribution if they offered their true opinions.

    You can see the same thinking went into the design of the Obamacare website. It is primarily a data mining enterprise, only as an after thought is it an insurance marketplace.

    The recent refusal by this administration to pay the death gratuity to the family of troops killed while serving their country should be viewed in the same light. As was his decision to bar clergy on contract to DoD from even voluntarily performing services on DoD installations under threat of arrest. These were deliberate insults to the troops, and simply ways to make life as difficult as possible for people who are not Obama’s constituents.

    There is no legitimate reason they could not have paid the death gratuity, and not even a shred of a defense for barring volunteer clergy from military and naval bases. These were simply ways to take a swipe at two groups Obama dislikes at the same time. After all, President Mean Girl will illegitimately spend money on people when he needs their votes.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2012/04/23/obama-admin-to-use-8-3-billion-slush-fund-to-fake-out-seniors/

    Obama admin to use $8.3 billion “slush fund” to fake out seniors? Update: GAO auditors demand end to slush fund

    How does Barack Obama keep from getting ousted by seniors who discover that their Medicare Advantage options for 2013 will be greatly reduced, if not eliminated altogether? After all, ObamaCare’s $500 billion in cuts to the highly successful private-public partnership begin in 2013, assuming that the Supreme Court keeps the law in place this summer. Those cuts are necessary to fund the Medicaid expansion that comes in 2014 to provide funding for coverage of many — but not all — of the currently uninsured. Unfortunately for Obama, seniors would normally discover how badly ObamaCare has damaged their options in mid-October during the Medicare open-enrollment period for supplemental coverage, just a couple of weeks before voters have to go to the polls to select the new President, House, and one-third of the Senate. Since seniors are the most reliable voting bloc in the US, this would prove disastrous for Team Obama.

    …If HHS does do this, though, it will certainly be a demonstration project. Democrats, including Obama, insisted that seniors and the disabled would have no problems with the Medicare Advantage cuts — that their choices would not be constricted in any practical sense, and that the pain would only be felt by the eeeeeeeeeeeevil insurers. Using the slush funds to postpone those changes past the election will demonstrate that they have been lying all along — otherwise, why postpone the cuts? Why not stay on schedule for the Great Leap Forward in American health care?

    …In a rebuke to the Obama administration, government auditors are calling for the cancellation of an $8 billion Medicare program that congressional Republicans have criticized as a political ploy.

    The nonpartisan Government Accountability Office says in a report to be released Monday that the $8.3 billion the administration has earmarked for quality bonuses to Medicare Advantage insurance plans would postpone the pain of cuts to the plans under the new health care law. Most of the money would go to plans rated merely average. …

    Keep in mind that while President Prom Queen was illegally spending money not appropriated for the purpose of propping up Medicare Advantage to fool elderly government clients, he was deliberately not enforcing the law that requires the states to send out absentee ballots to the troops.

    So, yes, this is deliberate. Part of never letting a crisis go to waste. They are taking advantage of the fact that the military is drawing down to purge it in the name of ideological purity.

    Steve57 (022c57)

  13. Apparently, “…so help me, God…” has become optional as part of the oath in the Air Force.

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_AF_ACADEMY_HONOR_OATH?CTIME=2013-10-25-15-41-39&SECTION=HOME&SITE=AP&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

    They should have just changed it to, “…so help me, God Obama…”

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  14. this does not sound like an honorable organization

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  15. what isn’t clear until you click through though is it’s just the US Army specifically what’s acting like a sleazy fascist whore in the established tradition of, for example, the sluts at the IRS and the piggy piggy gestapo thugs at the National Park Service

    so until we have more evidences the other branches of the armed forces might could still be respectable

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  16. well we used him to train the militias during the Libyan incursion, what could go wrong;
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/25/former-guantanamo-detainee-was-on-ground-in-benghazi-night-11-attack/

    narciso (3fec35)

  17. noted fascist coward whoreslut Colin Powell is an army person, so the writing has maybe been on the wall for some time

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  18. mister happyfeet, please don’t forget those national parks and memorials belong to obama. after all, he won the election.

    “hey, you veterans, stay off my lawn !”

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  19. national parks kind of squick me out now

    I feel bad how supportive I’ve been

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  20. It’s not the parks or the animals or the trees or the mountains or the geysers or the lakes’ fault. Keep focused on the rotten power hungry humans, feets, is my advice.

    elissa (ed2492)

  21. “counter intelligence”… how appropriate. 8:)

    of course, after giving the big green machine 20 years of my weekends and vacations, i can confidently say that the Army is ruthless about stamping out *any* sign of intelligence anywhere it has authority…

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  22. It hasn’t been a very honorable organization since Clinton decided not to let the Tailhook crisis go to waste, and instead used that to impose PC on the military.

    It wasn’t just that they were trying to lynch every single man who attended the convention (recall that the original report was too lenient for feminist groups, who put pressure on the administration which forced NCIS to rewrite it). They tried to ruin the career of any naval officer who was even in Las Vegas. A friend of mine who was from Las Vegas had his promotions delayed for years because he was back home on leave visiting family. He wasn’t alone.

    Then the politically motivated persecutions trickled down to the fleet. I got caught up in one of those. A female friend got promoted to Lieutenant and as is traditional in the Navy she spent her pay raise throwing a party, a “wetting down” for her new bars. Alcohol was involved.

    She had a bit too much and we organized a search for her. Some friends and I found her and escorted her back to her room where we left her with a glass of water and some aspirin. Then we headed out to town.

    On Monday all hell broke loose as two department heads this would be a good opportunity to show the chain of command they were on board with the post-Tailhook program. My friends and I were told we were going to be charged with sexual harassment.

    They didn’t care that it hadn’t happened. The Navy had let it be known that taking sexual harassment very, very seriously was the way to get promoted so they needed some scalps. The department heads were leaning on the female lieutenant by threatening to charge her with conduct unbecoming if she didn’t accuse us of sexual harassment.

    Fortunately we all went over their heads to the XO, who put a stop to it. Unfortunately we couldn’t move ahead with our grievance with the department heads.

    They eventually did get their scalps. False accusations of sexual harassment became something of a cottage industry.

    They’re still on that case. Now it’s “sexual assault.” Which is supposed to be an epidemic in the military. Except it’s not. Especially when you compare the stats they’ve managed to cook up to what’s reported on college campuses. Even when they define “sexual assault” so broadly that almost as many men were surprised to find out the DoD considered them to have been “sexually assaulted” as women.

    The gays in the military thing was obviously going to be used as the same kind of tool. I knew some guys who were in who bought into the idea that the only reason anyone would oppose it was because of what the gay rights advocates told them; sexual insecurity. Which of course was juvenile. All you had to do was point to what the liberals were trying to do to the Commandant of the Marine Corps for defending the then-existing policy of banning gays from serving. They immediately called for his head on a platter because how of course could gays in the military trust him to be fair? So actually defending what was then existing policy became a hate crime. Coming soon to a DoD facility near you, buddy. Just wait until you get your own gay thought and speech commissar.

    So, no, it’s not a very honorable organization anymore. At least, not as you move up. I meet flag or general officers now and my default position is that they can’t be trusted unless they prove otherwise. That’s why I found it amusing that Hillary! chose retired CJCS ADM Mullen to do the Benghazi whitewash because supposedly he had the “stature” to credibly do the cover-up. He’d already demonstrated he was a political tool when he took a dishonorable position on lifting the ban on gays in the military.

    How, you might ask, given that lifting the ban is considered the correct position to take? He testified he had known gay service members since he entered the fleet in 1968. In other words, for 40 years he says he personally knew people that had falsified their enlistments and did nothing. So while at the same time he was processing other people out when they were reported to him, he says he didn’t enforce the policy if the individual was a personal friend. It is a certainty given the fact that he served for 25 years before don’t ask don’t tell was introduced, when it was absolutely illegal for gays to join and they had to lie on the enlistment forms to do so, and given his command positions that he discharged people for being gay. It is possible he even referred some to courts martial. Don’t aske don’t tell might have appeared to give him some sort of fig leaf, but only after 1993. And it’s not really a fig leaf since it remained illegal for gays to serve, they were still falsifying their enlistments, and were still being administratively separated if they were found out. Yet he selectively enforced the law; his friends were favored.

    Even supporters of the repeal of don’t ask don’t tell noticed that.

    “I have served with homosexuals since 1968,” ADM. Mullen told the Senate Armed Services Committee recently.

    Maybe I am off base, being a little rusty on the UCMJ as it pertains to gays in the military, but if he knew of homosexual members (and homosexuality is not permitted in the military), has he committed – or has he covered up a crime? Again, correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t that be like admitting that ‘I have served with service members who regularly steal government property since 1968?’
    - See more at: http://www.blackfive.net/main/2010/02/dont-ask-dont-tell-poll-and-what-did-adm-mullen-say.html#sthash.if1dgReH.dpuf

    Maybe he was lying for political effect, but that’s just as bad if not worse. So I found it amusing that Hillary! picked the only former CJCS who publicly outed himself as a dishonorable man to attempt the cover-up.

    Steve57 (022c57)

  23. I will note that government clearance questionnaires now ask if you have ever been a member of a militia. One assumes they don’t mean the statutory one.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  24. they’ve succeeded in politicizing effing everything… goddam ‘em anyways.

    Colonel Haiku (c606e5)

  25. I think that the Ft Hood people believe that the Tea Party and some Christian groups are beyond the pale, since they clearly advocate the overthrow of the US government. At least in their fever dreams.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  26. I will note that government clearance questionnaires now ask if you have ever been a member of a militia. One assumes they don’t mean the statutory one.

    They brought me in for questioning. I told ‘em I was in the Sons of the Pioneers and when they asked me if that was a rightwing organization, I said I certainly hoped so and asked for a glass of water.

    Colonel Haiku (c606e5)

  27. I fully expect this will be the next IRS defense: these are extremist groups and denial of tax exempt status to extremist is in the interests of freedom. Gathering up membership information on these extremists is part of national security. Etc.

    They say that Chavez never cheated in an election. He just made sure that by the time the elections were held that the deck was so rigged he could not lose.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  28. received from a counter-intelligence agent

    Truly a case study of how deranged things are becoming in this society, in Obama’s America.

    It would be bad enough if such a person were at a meeting of the ACLU, NARAL, NAACP, Move.on, NAMBLA, etc. But he (assuming it was a male) was within the confines of the US military. Which means that only a radical — an ultra-liberal — would voice the opinion he did, even more so since he must know full well the recent history of Fort Hood, Nidal Hasan and the amount of liberal political correctness infecting the military.

    History is replete with that of nations — including Stalin’s Russia, Mao’s China and Hitler’s Germany — that went off the deep end not necessarily because of the radicalism of many but because of the extremism of a few. And too many people in general acting like “sheeple,” meaning the perfect enablers to extremists and their ideology.

    Mark (58ea35)

  29. fascist leeches have attached themselves to the parks and the animals and the trees and the mountains and the geysers and the lakes

    it’s like in that movie “Alien” with Sigourney Weaver

    if you go and just ignore the fascist leeches you’re

    deceiving yourself

    you’re living a lie is what you’re doing

    and if there’s one thing I’ve learned from watching the CW is “you have to be true to yourself”

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  30. “you can’t hide from the truth”

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  31. “if i told you I loved you it wouldn’t be fair to either of us this season because the story arc requires that our story lines go in different directions so as to reintroduce some of the tension and conflict that made season one such a success with F12-17″

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  32. Colonel Haiku —

    I’ll keep rolling along
    Deep in my heart is a song
    Here on the range I belong
    Drifting along with the tumbling tumbleweeds

    htom (412a17)

  33. I wish I had saved some of the training materials they handed out after tail hook. It was much the same as what’s reported at The Gateway Pundit. The guidelines about changing the “hostile environment” had apparently been drawn up by the gender and ethnic studies professors at Berkely. But I was so disgusted I tossed them out at my earliest opportunity.

    Steve57 (022c57)

  34. I understand the impulse of a litigator, especially a prosecutor, to believe in reasonable doubt but this isn’t a trial and this Administration has politicized everything — including the IRS and the DOJ. To think it might draw the line at politicizing the military is a joke.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  35. With the successes of our military following their renaissance under Reagan, it is easy to forget how far they had slipped by 1981. Schwartzkopf’s memoir, “It Doesn’t Take a Hero”, tells of the depths to which the Army had sunk both before and during the Vietnam War. The country was fortunate both that a number of outstanding officers, like Schwartzkopf, made it their life’s mission to restore the integrity of the military, and that under Reagan they had a chance to do so. But we are thirty years past that time, with 8 years of Clinton and now 5 years of Hte ONe providing ample stress to destroy any organization. It should be no surprise that we have incompetence spreading like a plague through the officer corps. The concept of duty, honor, country is nothing but slogan for those who seek Hte ONe’$ favor. Consider the outrageous behavior of the Commandant of the Marine Corps if you doubt me.

    bobathome (5ceb02)

  36. To think it might draw the line at politicizing the military is a joke.

    And this is always a ratchet. Look what happened when Bush tried to turn the DOJ to the right. Suddenly the guardians appear from their nap.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  37. Bush tried to turn the DOJ to the right? I thought he let some appointees go, which almost every President since the beginning of time had done.

    JD (5c1832)

  38. The insurance thread comments over at AOSHQ were too depressing to keep reading so I came over here. It sure came fast, the end of our country. There is some warp and weft left but the moths are chewing right through.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  39. Even when they define “sexual assault” so broadly that almost as many men were surprised to find out the DoD considered them to have been “sexually assaulted” as women.

    How so?

    Michael Ejercito (b371e1)

  40. The Netherlands is having its version of the Redskins kerfuffle with a PC attack on Sint Nikolaas’ sidekick Black Pete.

    A Dutch Facebook page seeking to preserve the country’s fall “Sinterklaas” festival exactly as it is — including clowns in blackface makeup known as “Black Petes” — has received nearly a million ‘likes’ just 24 hours after it was created.

    The swift growth of the ‘Pete-ition” page reflects the depth of emotional attachment most Dutch people feel to the tradition, and their annoyance at outsiders who judge it without understanding it.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/23/dutch-black-pete-tradition_n_4148402.html

    elissa (ed2492)

  41. A few years ago I would have dismissed this as ridiculous. After the IRS scandal I cannot. I pray this story is incorrect. To steal basic rights from those who uphold them while simultaneously building hostility towards those whose motivation is to preserve this country would be awful.

    Dustin (d56565)

  42. 4.1.1. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty may:

    . . . .

    4.1.1.7. Make monetary contributions to a political organization, party, or committee favoring a particular candidate or slate of candidates…

    You didn’t realize that tea party organizations and the Christian-based American Family Association are not partisan groups that support candidates.

    They are 501(c)(3) organizations, and they are specifically NOT allowed to support candidates, so they don’t come under the exemption.

    The tea party we know of course and as for the American Family Association, see:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Family_Association

    Look at the bottom of the page, or here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:501(c)(3)_nonprofit_organizations

    and you’ll see that the American Fammly Association is a 501(c) and therefore does not endorse political candidates.

    And the Wikipedia articvle tells you that the Southern Poverty Law Center, which the Administration is close to, listed it as a “hate group” because of its “propagation of known falsehoods” and the use of “demonizing propaganda” against LGBT people. It may be, of course, that the “known falsehoods” may be the truth, and what they say is the truth is a lie, but they may have the Ph.Ds, or at leasst the organized Ph.Ds, on their side, and they get to say what is true or false. And what does science mean anyway but having a monopoly on the truth?

    Tea Party groups also were somehow classified as a bad groups, “tearing the country apart” and again, there isn’t the safe harbor of endorsing candidates.

    Sammy Finkelman (d960f3)

  43. the breaking of wind
    leaves many holes in the sky
    methane mania

    Colonel Haiku (c606e5)

  44. Oh dear Lord, Sammah.

    JD (5c1832)

  45. Well the late Hugo Chavez, was a member of Red Flag, the Venezuelan guerilla group, which were counterparts to the FARC, when they arose in the 70s, one of their major opponents was Luis Posada Carriles, who ran the counter terror section of that country’s secret police, he was fired by the then incoming President, Carlos Andres Perez around 1973

    narciso (3fec35)

  46. Comment by Dustin (d56565) — 10/26/2013 @ 6:29 pm

    I pray this story is incorrect. To steal basic rights from those who uphold them while simultaneously building hostility towards those whose motivation is to preserve this country would be awful.

    No, it looks like DoD regulations are on their side.

    I’m not sure about the constitution.

    They seem to be deciding on their own which groups protected by the first amendment are verboten for members of the military to contribute to.

    They seems to have put the tea party now in the same category as the Communist Party or groups listed as linked to terrorism.

    The American Family Association at least opposes DoD policy, but tea party groups…?

    Sammy Finkelman (d960f3)

  47. No it’s not Sammy, as I point out one of the lead suspects in the Benghazi case, bin Qumu, was involved in the training of militias just years earlier, meanwhile the DHS four years ago, and a peacenow activist at the West Point counterterrorism
    shop, continues to flag former military, Christians and prolifers as threats, now Aaron Alexis, Tamerlan
    Tsarnaev, are surprisingly not the focus of attention,

    narciso (3fec35)

  48. No, Sammy is not necessarily nuts. Can active duty personnel belong to a fight club? Just because they can participate in political activity doesn’t mean they can participate in every non-political activity. Sammy, you’re good at finding things on the intertubes. Can you search something along the lines of “active duty military and membership organizations”?

    nk (dbc370)

  49. Don’t affirm the false consequence, Sammy. There is no law barring a member of the military from donating to the Humane Society, or the American Heart Association, or the Tea Party. Just because you are reading a law that says soldiers can donate to the GOP doesn’t suddenly mean that they can’t donate to non partisan entities.

    Dustin (d56565)

  50. Try this one:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[69]

    Dustin (d56565)

  51. Sammy arrives and the squid ink flows!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  52. There have been many stories similar to this regarding various law enforcement seminars as well. I can’t give any links, but I recall seeing it several times in different venues. At least some of the stories seemed to have adequate documentation.
    It certainly is the trajectory of much public discussion in the US. As long as you don’t advocate moral absolutes it seems you can advocate just about anything. But if you do advocate moral absolutes then you are a hater.
    And then we wonder why there is so much corruption and spinelessness.

    I guess over time if the military and law enforcement are left being filled with people that tolerate and accept this kind of stuff then you get official arms of the government willing to oppress everyday people.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  53. 49. I’m not finding the right thigs right away.

    This talks about what they can or can’t do, but talks only about outright political organizations:

    http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/milpolitics.htm

    This is something else. It’s about the Soldiers’ and Sailors’ Civil Relief Act and the Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Act

    The legal rights they are talking about here are right not to be advresely affected by military service by others outside the military (prepaid rent, mortgage court cases, re-employment rights etc.)

    http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/migrated/legalservices/helpreservists/forms/lampbrochure.authcheckdam.pdf

    Sammy Finkelman (d960f3)

  54. Thanks, nk. yes, they mention other instances there.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  55. I guess over time if the military and law enforcement are left being filled with people that tolerate and accept this kind of stuff then you get official arms of the government willing to oppress everyday people.

    Comment by MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/26/2013

    I imagine so. This is obviously wrong. Anyone who doesn’t instinctively recognize it as wrong has no business wearing a badge or a military uniform. These are basic rights.

    So if the people giving orders believe in this, and the people who accept this and stay believe in this, what’s happening to the bad apple to good apple ratio?

    Dustin (d56565)

  56. 45. Comment by JD (5c1832) — 10/26/2013 @ 6:39 pm

    Oh dear Lord, Sammah

    I know. The general import of what I am finding is that there is more is more prohibition when something is outright politial, than when it is lobbying or trying to influence public opinion, and now I am saying the opposite could be the case!

    Sammy Finkelman (d960f3)

  57. I happened across a Kevin Williamson column today about the disparity between the net worth of African Americans and white Americans after the fifty years of the war on poverty.

    My take away from the column, whether you agree or disagree, is it’s about time that we start trying to solve our own problems.

    The government is extremely good at making us aware of our problems. Maybe we should listen.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  58. There is no prohibition, Sammah. It is really quite that simple.

    JD (5c1832)

  59. The government is extremely good at making us aware of our problems.

    Much less good at fixing said problems.

    JD (5c1832)

  60. Hard to find something specific.

    Military unions prohibited:

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/976

    Official regulations, but again, they’re are talking about elections;

    http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/defense_ethics/ethics_regulation/1344-10.html

    The biggest prohibition is don’t make it look anything is somethinbg supported by the military.

    What about lobbying?

    http://www.moaa.org/uploadedFiles/MOAA_Main/Main_Menu/About_MOAA/Leadership/standards.pdf

    Out of uniform, and in their personal capacity, yes.

    But… (see next comment)

    Sammy Finkelman (d960f3)

  61. Rush pointed out, that one of Thomas Sowell’s projects was an analysis of which ethnic groups advanced through the private sector, as opposed to government, the former invariably did better,

    narciso (3fec35)

  62. I tried looking up “can members of the military donate to the NAACP” but Google was not my friend.

    nk (dbc370)

  63. Pulling rabbits out of his ass again I see!

    Yoda (c1890a)

  64. Or should that be “squirrels”?

    Yoda (c1890a)

  65. I think DoD Directive 1325.6 is where the ducks are. See Section 8 in particular. http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/132506p.pdf

    h/t http://nlgmltf.org/leaflets/GI_Rights_free_speech.html Some more stuff here, too. When in need, ask a legal group.

    nk (dbc370)

  66. http://nlgmltf.org/military-law/category/gi-rights/military-dissent-resistance-whistleblowing/page/2/ quoting and referring you to:

    http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/132506p.pdf)

    Enclosure 3, Section 8. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES

    a. Military personnel must not actively advocate supremacist, extremist, or criminal gang doctrine, ideology, or causes, including those that advance, encourage, or advocate illegal discrimination based on race, creed, color, sex, religion, ethnicity, or national origin or those that advance, encourage, or advocate the use of force, violence, or criminal activity or otherwise advance efforts to deprive individuals of their civil rights.

    The word extremist was added to the regulation on February 22, 2013. But they were then clearly talking about gangs.

    Well, that takes care of the American Family Association since the Southern Poverty Law center has decided that’s a hate group. While even in Feb 2012, sexual orientation still didn’t make the cut on the list of prohiited discriminations, we’ve also got the language “otherwise advance efforts to deprive individuals of their civil rights” and since Windsor v. United States was decided, maybe that now has another meaning it didn’t previously have!!

    And Tea Party groups are “extremist” because… I guess because Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel says so, or something like that. This needs more research.

    Apparently the term used in the briefing was “a threat to the military and government” and it would be very had too make a case for that.

    And soldiers were not at all clear what was being prohibited.

    Sammy Finkelman (d960f3)

  67. Sammy – Thank you for sowing confusion where no confusion existed.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  68. Three Fort Hood soldiers have confirmed this story, one to a Waco TV station and two others to a group called Chaplains Alliance for Religious Liberty. The link says Fort Hood officials are investigating.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  69. We don’t have bills of attainder, Sammy, and even if we did it would not be the SPLC which would issue them. This does not require research — it requires adjudication if pushed too far. And we probably care more about this than 99% of the military do.

    nk (dbc370)

  70. If “otherwise advance efforts to deprive individuals of their civil rights” was the reason they could just as easily prohibit membership in or contributions to anti-abortion groups, so they are probably interpreting the language that way, but as meaning deprive individuals “outside the law”

    Somebody probably did indeed make a determination that the American Family Association and tea party groups were bad groups, and what the SPLC said was likely most of the basis for ostracizing American Family Association.

    Sammy Finkelman (d960f3)

  71. Who knew that Ozzie and Harriet were extremists?

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  72. 64. (first posted in the wrong thread)

    http://www.stripes.com/news/naacp-membership-dwindles-in-germany-1.98726

    But Defense Department regulations do not prohibit membership in the NAACP, which is a nonpartisan civil rights organization, or even political groups. Soldiers can be members of the Republican or Democratic parties, the National Organization of Women and other groups.

    They must do so, however, as citizens, not as military representatives…. “It would surprise me any responsible military person held it against anyone for being a member of the NAACP.

    “That would be like holding it against someone for being a member of the AARP.”

    According to Maj. Gen. Byron Bagby, USAREUR’s former chief of staff, who is black, there’s no reason soldiers should not join the organization.

    The possible problem with the NAACP was its opposition to the Iraq war and backing of new trials for some prisoners in the U.S. as well as the feeling it was too political. Soldiers were worried about their career, although there was also the fact that organization has had a dwindling membership for years.

    Sammy Finkelman (d960f3)

  73. * so they are probably NOT interpreting the language that way.

    Somebody has indeed probably decided that tea party groups are a threat to the military and government.

    Sammy Finkelman (d960f3)

  74. “Somebody has indeed probably decided that tea party groups are a threat to the military and government.”

    Yep. That’s the problem isn’t it?

    Every tea party member and everyone who questions the government from the right actually loves the government and has for a long time.

    The government has done so many things for so long, how can any thinking person hate it?

    That construct is a lefty idea for its own purposes.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  75. It always amazes me when Sammah gets so lost in his self created morass that he misses the blindingly obvious point that everyone else is pointing at.

    JD (5c1832)

  76. Probably just an incredible coincidence the military wants to stifle support of tea party groups and rogue IRS employees did as well.

    What are the chances?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  77. JD – It is Sammy’s gift.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  78. The whole hate-the-government meme is just an excuse for the Chris Matthews wing of the left to say, see I told you so.

    I think it’s about time to stop feeding that false argument.

    By the way, how is his dumb book about the Reagan-O’Neill partnership doing anyway? I really don’t know.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  79. Bush tried to turn the DOJ to the right?

    Well, my left-wing friends were way upset about all the new DOJ appointees. Apparently, some of these appointees were Christians!

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  80. As I said at #25, they are lumping everyone right of center as a hate group if they don’t support each and every new “right” that gets dreamed up.

    The next defense of the IRS will take these lines.

    This is the leading edge of dictatorship as the opposition is gradually dismissed as extremism and then outlawed. These are scary times.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  81. 82. …These are scary times.

    Comment by Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 10/26/2013 @ 11:10 pm

    Yes, they are. All indications are that Obama wants social instability. The kind that we’d experience if he defaulted on the debt, and the economy reaped the consequences. It’s a crisis he won’t let go to waste.

    I think back to 2009 and how President Mean Girl’s first foray int foreign policy was to support a Honduran president who unconstitutionally attempted to remain in office after the end of his term. I wondered if that was a foreshadowing of things to come and more and more I’m convinced it is.

    Steve57 (022c57)

  82. So, this could be that some clown at Fort Hood is spewing nonsense, or it could be that someone misinterpreted what was said.

    Or it could be that Sammy was (eventually) right and they are using anti-Klan rules and such to prohibit members of the armed services from membership in (and donations to) TEA Parties and other opposition groups.

    If the latter, we need to find out soonest because that would be only one of many such similar prohibitions and would make constant harassment from the State legal.

    And if so, it would be a major break.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  83. support a Honduran president who unconstitutionally attempted to remain in office

    It was actually defined as treason to TRY to extend one’s term.

    I’ve said before that I’m not convinced that Obama intends for the 2016 elections to happen. He may be too convinced that he and only he can save America from our stupid and short-sighted choices.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  84. I’ve said before that I’m not convinced that Obama intends for the 2016 elections to happen.

    Come now, that’s ridiculous. And it’s exactly what my lefty friends were saying about Bush. Of course, a lot of what they were saying about Bush turned out to be true about 0bama; lefties do a lot of projection, assuming that their own totalitarian instincts are shared by us. But still, this particular one is still ridiculous, even about 0bama. On 20-Jan-2017, he will no longer be president. But I expect Michelle to run for his “third term”.

    Milhouse (b95258)

  85. 61.The government is extremely good at making us aware of our problems.

    Much less good at fixing said problems.

    Even better at identifying problems that don’t exist, don’t exist yet and trying to fix them as well as they fix any real problems we have

    EPWJ (1cedce)

  86. I was at the Army 10 mile run in DC watching my daughter and future son in law and saw the Health care banners being carried – the Army carried the flag, their unit flags….

    Also saw a guy running in a plain white t-shirt with tiny black lettering that said:

    ” I run better than the government”

    EPWJ (1cedce)

  87. Milhouse, you are clearly convinced. I’m not. That does not say that I would bet anything but long odds that you are wrong — there is a vast gulf between being unconvinced of A and being certain of not-A.

    It’s just that every time I turn around I see another anti-democratic “tell.” He may, in the end, refuse the crown, but he would fain have had it.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  88. Mark Lloyd, the FCC zampolit, cheered the ‘wonderful
    democratic revolution,’ and how suppressing private media, saved it, Anita Dunn, the Mao loving communications director, heads SD Knickerbocker, which ran the trash Ann Romney, slur the Huntress, and flak for Sandra Fluke, Ron Bloom, the Mao fan, who ran the auto task force, and the industrial policy panel,

    narciso (3fec35)

  89. I skipped over most of the comments so I may have missed a similar sentiment. When the Iranian nuke goes off in New York Harbor, there may be a change in attitude toward the military. There may also be a shortage of lamp posts in DC. We have too many politicians for the available lamp posts.

    MikeK (dc6ffe)

  90. When the Iranian nuke goes off in New York Harbor

    Some of the reaction that inspired the quip of “a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged” was evident after Sept 11, 2001. But I mentioned before about my concern that American history is repeating itself. That the I-want-mommy liberalism that infused the US back during the last period of extended economic torpor (the 1930s-40′s) didn’t seem to change even after Pearl Harbor, as the desire by much of the electorate to cling to FDR remained until his death and was extended to his Democrat successor. I see signs of that infecting this society in the 21st century, and shudder accordingly.

    Mark (58ea35)

  91. Who knew that Ozzie and Harriet were extremists?

    Comment by MD in Philly (f9371b)

    I confess that caught me by surprise. But I always had my suspicions about that Wally fella…

    Colonel Haiku (2aa1d9)

  92. But I always had my suspicions about that Wally fella…

    Comment by Colonel Haiku (2aa1d9) — 10/27/2013 @ 9:12 am

    Wally? Confused you are, I think! Wally’s father was the one who couldn’t figure out how to find the beaver! Needed refresher in biology he did!

    Yoda (c1890a)

  93. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/15/pentagon-admits-christian-ministry-not-hate-group-says-label-does-not-reflect/

    The AFA was listed alongside domestic hate groups like the Ku Klux Klan, Neo-Nazis, the Black Panthers and the Nation of Islam during a briefing last week at Camp Shelby in Mississippi.

    A soldier who attended the briefing recently sent me a photograph of a slideshow presentation that listed AFA as a domestic hate group because of their support of traditional family values and their opposition to homosexuality.

    This sounds like the IRS saying the illegal scrutiny of conservative groups was the fault of low level employees of the Cincinatti office.

    George Wright, an Army spokesman at the Pentagon, tells me the slide was not produced by the Army and it does not reflect their policy or doctrine.

    “It was produced by a soldier conducting a briefing which included info acquired from an Internet search,” Wright said. “Info was not pulled from official Army sources, nor was it approved by senior Army leaders, senior equal opportunity counselors or judge-advocate personnel.”

    There are a lot of articles on the military tagging conservative and Christian groups as extreme.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=military+appoligizes+to+christian+groups&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#hl=en&q=military+apologizes+to+christian+groups

    Tanny O'Haley (6c44a8)

  94. Wally? Confused you are, I think! Wally’s father was the one who couldn’t figure out how to find the beaver! Needed refresher in biology he did!

    Comment by Yoda (c1890a)

    this is not the Wally you were thinking of…

    http://www.incredibletvandmovies.com/wally_10605.jpg

    Colonel Haiku (2aa1d9)

  95. “There are a lot of articles on the military tagging conservative and Christian groups as extreme.”

    Tanny – You’ve got Mikey Weinstein’s Military Religious Freedom Foundation getting a lot of attention from the left and more “freedom from religion” types.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  96. This guy, former top aide to powell, is another member of that organization;

    http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2012/10/07/norman-finkelstein-and-neocon-denial/lawrence-wilkerson-former-chief-of-staff-for-colin-powell/

    yes it’s a 9/11 denialist site;

    narciso (3fec35)

  97. 95. Comment by Tanny O’Haley (6c44a8) — 10/27/2013 @ 9:39 am

    Fox news story: George Wright, an Army spokesman at the Pentagon, tells me the slide was not produced by the Army and it does not reflect their policy or doctrine.

    “It was produced by a soldier conducting a briefing which included info acquired from an Internet search,” Wright said.

    There it is. The Southern Poverty Law Center, probably laundered through other groups. And how is a soldier not part of the army?

    Outside the usual chain of command I suppose.
    But whom?

    It is not official policy, to label the American Family Association as bad, but somewhere it is official policy to let somebody or other name names. Somebody is responsible for what organizations are being lumped with the Ku Klux Klan and the Black Panthers, both of which are pretty much defunct. Somebody steeered people to some websites, for instance. Somebody arranged for these briefings to do done, and picked the person in charge of assigning people to do them.

    By the way, it turns out it is almost two weeks since the army repudiated it.

    Sammy Finkelman (8a673f)

  98. “It was produced by a soldier conducting a briefing”

    What rank does the soldier hold?

    A good friend of mine commands an AFB and if he sends someone out to do a slideshow on how to behave, you can damn well figure the guys and gals who have to attend the show will pay attention/ take notes, and implement.
    He is a good man, but take that info as probably “unapproved” at your own risk.

    That said, he is the kind of guy people can speak up to.

    steveg (794291)

  99. When the Iranian nuke goes off in New York Harbor we will first need to pass a giant pork bill to slop the piggies. After that we’ll need to work on this obamacare website some more.

    Plus, climate change.

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  100. Fox news story: George Wright, an Army spokesman at the Pentagon, tells me the slide was not produced by the Army and it does not reflect their policy or doctrine.

    “It was produced by a soldier conducting a briefing which included info acquired from an Internet search,” Wright said.

    They’re conducting General Military Training with crap some random soldier is getting off the internet?

    Not buying that for an instant. If it’s true that they now have counter-intelligence agents warning people against engaging in political or religious activities that in itself is a change in policy.

    Steve57 (022c57)

  101. 100. What rank does the soldier hold?

    If he’s counter-intelligence in the Army he’s at least a Sergeant.

    A good friend of mine commands an AFB and if he sends someone out to do a slideshow on how to behave,you can damn well figure…

    Comment by steveg (794291) — 10/27/2013 @ 10:39 am

    Among other things you can damn well figure he doesn’t let just anybody put that slideshow together and go and give it. Especially when it comes to rights protected by the First Amendment such as religious and political activity.

    As I recall we always got this during annual GMT sessions, and we got our training from the JAG.

    Steve57 (022c57)

  102. Princess Lindsey was a jag

    e-i-e-i-o

    oh my goodness what is a Princess Lindsey word what rhymes with jag

    I’m completely stuck

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  103. Any Christian congregation, that is a truly Gospel-teaching and Bible-based one, is an evangelical organization. One would think that a Constitutional Adjunct Professor might have some reservations about violating the 1st Amendment Free Exercise Cause.

    tek (8d62d5)

  104. it was also a name of popular series that ran for nearly 10 years.

    narciso (3fec35)

  105. #106

    You have to remember that it is his military.
    Obama said: “my military” and meant it.

    #104
    Agreed. No one under his command cobbles together some nonsense and is given a forum without a directive.
    He has better things to spend his time and risk his career on than that

    steveg (794291)

  106. Like I said, some low level employees of the Cincinatti office. Nothing to see here, move along.

    It’s very difficult for me to believe that:

    “It was produced by a soldier conducting a briefing which included info acquired from an Internet search,” Wright said. “Info was not pulled from official Army sources, nor was it approved by senior Army leaders, senior equal opportunity counselors or judge-advocate personnel.”

    I don’t believe you can do anything without permission in the Army.

    Tanny O'Haley (6c44a8)

  107. “Info was not pulled from official Army sources, nor was it approved by senior Army leaders, senior equal opportunity counselors or judge-advocate personnel.”

    What does EO have to do with this?

    In any case, that’s some serious dereliction on the part of the chain of command right there.

    “Sure, Sgt. I don’t need to review your briefing and neither does the JAG. Just go ahead and threaten my troops with reprisals for engaging in political or religious activity. I trust you.”

    I mean, if I believed a word that was coming out of Mr. Army spokesman George Wright’s mouth.

    That reminds me, some in the press are fed up with these administration spinmeisters they have to deal with, too. I’ll post a video of an AP reporter calling a DoS PR flack a liar on the open thread.

    Steve57 (022c57)

  108. When the Iranian nuke goes off in New York Harbor we will first need to pass a giant pork bill to slop the piggies. After that we’ll need to work on this obamacare website some more.

    Plus, climate change.

    I’m afraid you’re, if anything, understating it. Look at the size of the bribe the Ds needed back in late 2001 to buy their “standing in solidarity”.

    Milhouse (82b1e0)

  109. this is not the Wally you were thinking of…

    http://www.incredibletvandmovies.com/wally_10605.jpg

    Comment by Colonel Haiku (2aa1d9) — 10/27/2013 @ 9:42 am

    Chagrined Yoda is! Over 3 decades since last episode of show I saw. Played by Skip Young, Wally was on Ozzie show! Much more recently Ward confused about finding Beaver, I saw. Not require Jedi Master to find Beaver, if know where to look you do! Jedi Master like me, find Beaver with only one finger, I can! Not difficult like holding up entire ceiling of cave with Force only!

    :lol:

    Yoda (c1890a)

  110. At one time, those that wore iron on their collars were Officers and Gentlemen by Acts of Congress;
    now, they are just Political Commissars for the White House, and are due all the respect and courtesy that their duties entail.

    The fragging will begin in 10….9….8….7….

    askeptic (2bb434)

  111. Looks like there is now proof this was going on and it wasn’t some low level sergeant looking up “stuff” on the Internet.

    After Breitbart News reported on Thursday an official Department of Defense (DOD) document approved the anti-Christian Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) as a trustworthy source for information on dangerous “extremist” organizations and movements, Fox News released a letter dated Oct. 18 from Secretary of the Army John M. McHugh. He begins his letter noting a string of anti-Christian presentations and says the material is “inaccurate, objectionable and otherwise inconsistent with current Army policy.”

    McHugh criticized SPLC for labeling Christian ministries, public-interest groups, and other conservative organizations as extremists, adding the “groups identified in the instruction were not ‘extremist’ organizations as that term is defined in Army Regulation 600-20.”

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/10/25/Breaking-New-Military-Docs-Raise-Possibility-Obama-Admin-Burying-Scandal-on-Anti-Christian-Material

    Tanny O'Haley (6c44a8)


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