Patterico's Pontifications

10/24/2013

Howard Dean: Republicans to Blame for Disastrous ObamaCare Rollout. You Know, In Part.

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:31 am



He chooses Morning Joe to float this turd of a trial balloon, because he knows nobody at MSNBC is going to pull out a pin to poke at it.

Mika Brzezinski held his feet to the fire:

DEAN: First of all, in fairness you gotta blame the Republicans. For some of this. Because they delayed everything they possibly could. Threw as many monkey wrenches into the process as they could —

BRZEZINSKI: Exactly.

DEAN: — with some success here . . .

Naturally, there is not a single thing Republicans did that could conceivably have had any effect on the rollout. During the government slowdown, we were constantly told that the defund strategy didn’t matter because the dollars were already appropriated. Republicans can’t be blamed for participating in ObamaCare, either by voting for it, or getting their fingerprints on it in any way. So why does Dean say you have to blame Republicans? Because Dean is a hack on a friendly network, and he can get away with the Big Lie. It’s that simple.

This is the emboldening of a strategy Obama himself dipped his toe into the other day, when he implicitly blamed the shutdown:

“About three weeks ago, as the federal government shutdown, and the Affordable Care Act’s health insurance marketplaces opened up across the country,” said Obama. “Well, we’ve now gotten the government back open for the American people and today I want to talk about how were going to get the marketplaces running at full steam as well.”

The media didn’t jump on him for that, and now his implications are becoming direct accusations in the mouths of Obama’s mouthpieces. Dean’s just pushing the envelope a little further and seeing how it works. This is their strategy: lie, lie a little more, then lie a lot more — and see if anyone calls you on it. By the time we’re done, the whole botched rollout will be Ted Cruz’s fault.

159 Responses to “Howard Dean: Republicans to Blame for Disastrous ObamaCare Rollout. You Know, In Part.”

  1. Haha, “exactly”. Priceless.

    DejectedHead (a094a6)

  2. This actually reminds me of a previous MSNBC segment. I think Robert Gibbs was tearing into the Obamacare roll out…then he said a key phrase

    “But healthcare is different”

    And the MSNBC Hostess started bobbing her head in total agreement. Like a trained Pavlovian dog.

    DejectedHead (a094a6)

  3. Ah Howard Dean; somewhere in New England, a village has lost an idiot–and let him loose on national TV.

    Comanche Voter (c39ceb)

  4. By the time we’re done, the whole botched rollout will be Ted Cruz’s fault.

    Well, Ted Cruz did give Obamacare (and thus the website) a lot of free publicity, and caused many more people to try to check it out the first day.

    That actually should have been welcomed by the designers of the website. They were planning a whole advertising campaign, but thanks to the Heritage Foundation and Ted Cruz, that turned out not to be necessary.

    That’s not of course what Howard Dean means. He’s just talking gibberish that might make sense to a low information voter – someone who didn’t know much might think that Republicans somehow succeeded in throwing a monkey wrench into the process!

    Howard Dean couldn’t possibly name even one such monkey wrench.

    Sammy Finkelman (e9b54a)

  5. One reason why the left can stretch and pummel both the truth and reality is because there are plenty of foolish people out therre who fall for the rhetoric of liberals.

    The MSNBC segment starts with a graphic that shows a recent Gallup Poll figure of 45% approving of Obamacare, which is higher today (by 4 percentage points) than it was in August, while disapproval has increased by just 1% point to an even 50%.

    Banana Republics are incubated by the people of a society when enough of them buy into the idea that liberalism is a warm and beautiful thing. If America becomes a Mexico North or a France West, or Venezuela’s or Argentina’s bigger brother, it will be due to the populace, to “we the people.”

    Mark (58ea35)

  6. Man, am I glad I no longer watch TV!

    felipe (6100bc)

  7. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    By the time we’re done, the whole botched rollout will be Ted Cruz’s fault. (our host)

    Well, Ted Cruz did give Obamacare (and thus the website) a lot of free publicity, and caused many more people to try to check it out the first day.

    Pat, did you really intend to wave that red meat in front of Mr Finkelman’s nose? 😆

    Obaminablecare was passed without a single Republican vote, and then the entire thing was sent to the Obama Administration, populated with Democrats, to build the thing; they had over three fornicating years to get this thing ready to go, but they weren’t even testing it until just a couple of months before it was due to open.

    So, what would happen to the head of the IT department, and many of his minions, if Ford Motor Company had ordered up a big new website and given them 3 years to get it done, and it still wasn’t ready?

    The Dana rolling on the floor and laughing his ass off (3e4784)

  8. In a week or so, we’ll be reading about the programmer surreptitiously planted by the Republicans to sabotage the whole thing.

    The prescient Dana (3e4784)

  9. Comment by The prescient Dana (3e4784) — 10/24/2013 @ 8:22 am

    The reason that meme has not (yet) appeared is because the administration kept the project out of “partisan” hands.

    felipe (6100bc)

  10. Their excuses and blame shifting is not new or unexpected. What paralyzes us is the Republican fear of this often effective rhetoric.

    The Democrats will always blame us for their policy failures. Many will be convinced. And when we back down out of fear it just proves they are right.

    Amphipolis (d3e04f)

  11. Edward Snowden! Somehow, in his file copying, he got part of Obumblecare and corrupted it.

    The Dana who figured it out! (3e4784)

  12. As we wend our way through the disaster on every front that is called “the Obama administration”, let us remember… Mitt Romney once put the family dog on the roof of his car and took teh dog and family on vacation.

    Colonel Haiku (8a1837)

  13. Sammy, Howard Dean is not talking gibberish.

    He is brazenly lying.

    SPQR (2939bb)

  14. SPQR – shhhhh. Sammy is on a roll today.

    JD (5aa30b)

  15. I had this debate with a lefty friend recently. She said that the GOP was obligated to help implement Obamacare, even if they disagreed with it, because it had been duly passed. Her position is that Republicans need to work with Democrats to “improve” it, but that wanting to repeal the program is irresponsible.

    So I asked her why that didn’t extend to the Iraq War. Dems like Obama weren’t arguing that they needed to fight the war more effectively and they mostly supported the surge. Instead, their policy choice was to cut and run, and that really is in the end the strategy that Obama implemented. Her retort was essentially that Obama did in fact extend the Iraq War and help bring it to a logical conclusion, and that even Bush had acknowledged that it must eventually end.

    But my point remained that Dems, even when they were in the majority during the Bush years of 2007-2008, sure didn’t act like they needed to help a Bush initiative succeed, even though several of them had actually voted to authorize the Iraq War. Exactly zero Republicans voted in favor of ObamaCare, so to pretend that they are under some obligation to throw out their principles in order to ensure it is a “success” is completely daft.

    JVW (709bc7)

  16. JD, a “roll”? Is that what its called now?

    SPQR (2939bb)

  17. So I asked her why that didn’t extend to the Iraq War. Dems like Obama weren’t arguing that they needed to fight the war more effectively and they mostly supported the surge.

    Ugh. What I meant to say above is that Dems “mostly failed to support the surge.”

    JVW (709bc7)

  18. 13. Comment by SPQR (2939bb) — 10/24/2013 @ 8:48 am

    Sammy, Howard Dean is not talking gibberish.

    He is brazenly lying.

    Both. When you think about it, the lies are gibberish. His argument, w is gibberish

    DEAN: First of all, in fairness you gotta blame the Republicans.

    This is a brazen lie. To be fair?

    For some of this.

    This is an attempt to make the lie more plausible.

    Because they delayed everything they possibly could.

    This is a half truth. Some of the Republicans did indeed delay everything they possibly could.

    “Everything they possibly could” = 0.

    They didn’t delay anything, and also they weren’t even trying to delay anything till very close to October 1. Obama did delay some things, and was lobbied in person.

    Threw as many monkey wrenches into the process as they could.

    This is a lie. It refers to nothing. That makes it gibberish. Unless maybe forcing Sebelius to certify that income verification is working is a monkey wrench.

    BRZEZINSKI: Exactly.

    It would be nice if Mika Brzezinski explained this. She might have been thinking about the fact that in September and October many Republicans were trying to delay everything they possibly could, first the whole law, then the individual mandate, then maybe just the 2.3% medical deviices tax. This has nothing to do with what actually happened.

    DEAN: — with some success here

    This is either a lie or gibberish.

    .

    Sammy Finkelman (4d9cfa)

  19. well, you posted it Sammy, so it could be either one or both.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  20. meanwhile, at the Congressional hearings on the issue, the blame has, unexpectedly, already been allocated in testimony: “it’s the other guy’s fault.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-24/obamacare-debacle-its-everyone-elses-fault

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  21. Let me correct that.

    That any Republicans had some success in delaying anything, or in throwing a monkey wrench into the process is a flat out lie. They had zero success.

    Sammy Finkelman (4d9cfa)

  22. And if it weren’t for the US embargo, Cuba would be a thriving socialist Utopia.

    Gen. James Matoon Scott (bf8ad7)

  23. and oops. very sorry.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  24. I’m detecting some progress here. SF has condensed 32 lines of dithering into 2 lines that make some sense. One more line that links his logical statement into an analysis of the truthfulness of Dean’s original assertion would close the loop. But I have a feeling that this will take another semester.

    bobathome (c0c2b5)

  25. Look, this turd isn’t bad programming. It’s bad design. The grunts programmed exactly what they asked for, but it was convoluted nonsense made worse by constant sea changes in requirements from their political masters.

    I’m pretty sure that you could have fun with the “Downfall” meme with Hitler ranting about his vision of the program design and the generals gingerly telling him that it wouldn’t work.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  26. If it the fault of any Republican, it is John Roberts.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  27. She and Megan, are proud alumni of Columbia, yikes.

    narciso (3fec35)

  28. New meme: Signups are low because Republicans are scaring people from going to the web site.

    And so we come once again to Yogi Berra.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  29. Isn’t it obvious?
    Of course Snowball sabotaged the windmill!
    Napoleon’s plans are infallible, but are constantly foiled by Snowball’s interference.

    Eric Wilner (3936fd)

  30. the big questions is, “who ate the strawberries?”

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  31. The Republicans did try to fix this problem. They said, “Stop, this won’t work.”

    Democrats became reliant on Republicans coming in and fixing up their unworkable ideas to make them half-workable. Well, finally they came across one so unworkable the Republicans threw up their hands and shrugged their shoulders. Said, “There’s no helping this one.”

    luagha (5cbe06)

  32. #15 JVW, ask her why the Border Fence of 2006 is unfunded. It is law too. Bi-Partisan too.

    Rodney King's Spirit (5c6cbf)

  33. #26 Kevin M — and Olympia Snowe.

    She Harvard too?

    Rodney King's Spirit (5c6cbf)

  34. You know how weak the Pro-BarryCare argument is when they have to rely on Screamin’ Howie, and Debbie “Like my Poodle Cut” Wasserman-Schultz.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  35. Good thing the Republicans screwed up the roll out of Unaffordable 404Care, otherwise people might get the idea the Obama Administration is incompetent, unwilling to accept responsibility for its failures, and that unpopular purely partisan big government projects to radically restructure 1/6 of the economy might be a bad idea, but that’s just me thinking out loud. YMMV.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  36. @ #3 Comanche Voter:

    I’m from Vermont and when Dean was our Governor he spent almost 10 years honking off the ultra-left by pushing forth reasonable budgets, vetoing their more deluded bills, and publicly deriding most of their policy choices. Yes, he was a Democrat, but as Gov he was clearly a centrist Dem.

    The instant he ran for President I no longer knew who he was and I still wonder who got him to change. If he was this way all along he clearly had enough support in the VT Legislature to go full-left but never did. It still confuses me to this day.

    Captain Ned (401d83)

  37. And the people who directed the programmers this year are going to be directing surgeons next year.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  38. team r should be reminding everyone that the “Romney Care Rollout” was a winnah.

    mg (31009b)

  39. “team r should be reminding everyone that the “Romney Care Rollout” was a winnah.”

    Sound thinking once more Bad Clams.

    They should also probably remind everyone how Obamacare was modeled on Romneycare.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  40. team r not having a sound plan to show the public they can lead is too darn bad, if they had one it would make the criticizing more tolerable. Don’t you think daleyrocks?

    mg (31009b)

  41. Well Jonathan Gruber is already doing that, which is why you shoot rattlesnakes like that,

    narciso (3fec35)

  42. Comment by redc1c4 (abd49e) — 10/24/2013 @ 11:14 am

    So it should be clear to everyone that Healthcare.gov is Obama’s “Springtime for Hitler”. And he picked the perfect director.

    felipe (6100bc)

  43. Way to go, felipe!

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  44. …except, SFH was a HIT!

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  45. The Dana who figured it out! #11 – I am just wondering, since Mr Snowden started scattering nuggets of information sometime around late 2012, when we will see stuff relating to the Obamacare website decision-making by the Administration ?

    Alastor (e7cb73)

  46. I liked this comment at Hot Air:

    “Last week the people who wanted to delay Obamacare were called legislative arsonists and terrorists who were holding the country hostage. This week they’re called Democrats.”

    by txhsmom

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  47. blaming the shutdown is stupid, the timing makes no sense. If we’re going to blame the right it should be for refusing to create state exchanges thus forcing the government to pick up the slack of 33 lazy states (dare I say moocher? Oh heck why not, those lazy taker states run by republicans). Notice that by and large the states with local exchanges are working just fine.

    Nobody finds it odd that republicans could have exerted local control over the exchanges but instead decided to entrust that power to the feds, and are now of course b*tching about the results. My sympathy for them is negligible.

    Too bad you don’t live in a more liberal state with a well functioning exchange, huh?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  48. “Last week the people who wanted to delay Obamacare were called legislative arsonists and terrorists who were holding the country hostage. This week they’re called Democrats.”

    Last week the people wanting to delay obamacare were doing so by holding the world economy and US government hostage. This week the people are simply trying to pass a law.

    See the difference?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  49. Tlaloc, the state exchanges are not working fine. It is a stupid excuse anyway – implicitly admitting that Obama is less competent than state governors.

    Your usual incompetent, dishonest smear and lies.

    SPQR (768505)

  50. …except, SFH was a HIT!

    Well so far polling for obamacare has only gone up (incrementally, but still)…

    (net disaproval has dropped 3 points since the exchanges opened:
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

    take the fox news poll for instance, ocare was -16 at the beginning of the month and is -10 now)

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  51. Tlaloc, the state exchanges are not working fine. It is a stupid excuse anyway – implicitly admitting that Obama is less competent than state governors.

    Everything I’ve read about them says they are in fact working fine.

    It’s not necessarily saying that the feds were less competent but that having to design a system to work with 33 independent systems is a lot harder than building one that only has to work with 1 system. Especially when you weren’t expecting to build the 33 format system at all

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  52. Last week, Obama shutdown government to protect Obamacare, today the entire world knows its failing.

    See the difference? There is none. Obama was always an incompetent narcissist.

    SPQR (768505)

  53. Tlaloc, you haven’t been reading anything. You are just lying.

    SPQR (768505)

  54. Let the beatings continue until morale improves.

    felipe (6100bc)

  55. Obama the 404 Presidency.

    SPQR (768505)

  56. Obama “I am always the smartest guy in the room” is why the exchanges are failing.

    Currently more people are losing insurance because of Obamacare than able to enroll…. by 1000 to 1

    SPQR (768505)

  57. Tlaloc, you haven’t been reading anything. You are just lying.

    Come on guys, I was away for a bit due to work getting busy and I come back to this?

    fyi-
    http://reason.com/blog/2013/10/21/obamacares-state-run-exchanges-are-worki
    http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-09-30/business/42521235_1_obamacare-exchanges-small-business-owners-employers

    and more. I’m sure your apology will be forthcoming…

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  58. Shorter Tlaloc;

    it’s Boooosh’s fault ! Or whatever !

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  59. Welcome back. I present you with this Laurel and Hardy handshake.

    felipe (6100bc)

  60. it’s Boooosh’s fault ! Or whatever !

    Obviously not. What I said is it’s stupid to blame the shutdown. There is some sense in blaming the right’s attempt at every turn to sabotage the law. I don’t think all the problems can be attributed to that, but republicans should take a long look in the mirror before complaining that a law they’ve done everything possible to destroy, cripple, and otherwise hinder, isn’t working perfectly. They wont, but they should.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  61. Yet, the healthcare.gov Web site doesn’t work.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  62. we knew this would be a SNAFUBAR, but we somehow didn’t envision, not getting on the site in the first place, we had minimum expectations, that this would not be a Dilbert episode writ large,

    narciso (3fec35)

  63. 661. …Come on guys, I was away for a bit due to work getting busy and I come back to this?

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/24/2013 @ 5:31 pm

    Work? Not what I heard.

    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/342916/Man-with-penis-stuck-in-toaster-rescued-by-London-Fire-Brigade

    Steve57 (022c57)

  64. I just don’t think most people can ever get past the “If you like your doctor you will be able to keep him or her. If you like your healthcare plan then it will not be taken it away from you.”

    I’d love to know if the President was really so dis-engaged and so apart from the legislation that he genuinely believed what he was saying at the time was true- or if he knowingly and brazenly and with malice flat out lied to the American people. Either way is equally bad as far as I am concerned. Whether you are a foreign power, a political rival attempting to negotiate with him, or an average American citizen, his word and promises are worthless. Everyone knows that now.

    elissa (93f70f)

  65. Shorter Tlaloc;

    The Rethuglicans tried to defund the law, so that means that the website that the Obama Administration has been working on for three and a half years would not work very well ! Or something ! Meanwhile, my next door neighbor gave me a funny look last weekend, and now my lawn mower doesn’t work ! Coincidence ?? I think NOT !

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  66. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/24/business/health-law-fails-to-keep-prices-low-in-rural-areas.html?pagewanted=all

    Interesting article about how the benefits of obamacare may not filter out to rural areas due to a lack of competition between insurers.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  67. I mean, yeah, you were getting busy. But come on.

    Steve57 (022c57)

  68. toaster? What would possess someone to do that…?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  69. Anybody notice that current ACA cancellations of medical policies are by far outstripping new Obamacare signups? I’ll bet Howard hasn’t.

    Dirty Old Man (4bf1c0)

  70. “Notice that by and large the states with local exchanges are working just fine.”

    Tlaloc – Can you provide one of your numerous links to support that claim?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  71. You tell me, dude. I’m just with the volunteer fire brigade.

    Steve57 (022c57)

  72. I’d love to know if the President was really so dis-engaged and so apart from the legislation that he genuinely believed what he was saying at the time was true-

    it is true. Nothing about obamacare forces you to switch either doctr or insurance. If an insurance company chooses to stop offering a given insurance that’s on them.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  73. As usual he doesn’t read his own links;

    Moreover, it appears that no one has fully enrolled so far. According to a story in this morning’s New York Daily News, none of the applications filed through the system have actually been transmitted to insurers yet. And health insurers selling plans in the state are also worried that the plan information being displayed on the exchanges isn’t correct:

    narciso (3fec35)

  74. Tlaloc – Can you provide one of your numerous links to support that claim?

    already did. Even reason says the state run exchanges are working okay. And they’re huge opponents of obamacare.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  75. But, healthcare.gov doesn’t work.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  76. http://reason.com/blog/2013/10/21/obamacares-state-run-exchanges-are-worki

    reposted so you don’t have to scroll up, because I’m a sweetie.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  77. Steve57,

    So our sick friend Tlaloc was having it out with a toaster, eh ?
    As the old waffle commercial goes, “Leggo my Eggo !”

    That really explains why we refer to him as “Shorter Tlaloc,” doesn’t it ?

    It also may explain why he’s so desperate for everyone else to pay for his health care. Those trips to the urologist must be expensive.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  78. “Interesting article about how the benefits of obamacare may not filter out to rural areas due to a lack of competition between insurers.”

    Tlaloc – Absolutely. Where is that choice between affordable plans Obama was promising?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  79. Regardless, healthcare.gov doesn’t work.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  80. Umm, no, Flailoc. Reason is saying that the state exchanges are working better than the fed’s, but that’s a low bar.

    Try again, no that the fire department has pulled your crank outta the toaster.

    Steve57 (022c57)

  81. Do you work for CMS, it would explain a lot;

    On day one, though, many of those features will not be available, as both sides of the exchanges, but particularly the small business marketplaces, have been saddled with a number of delays — most of them stemming from the sheer scope of the technology and infrastructure required to operate the online portals.

    narciso (3fec35)

  82. The Rethuglicans tried to defund the law, so that means that the website that the Obama Administration has been working on for three and a half years would not work very well !

    You don’t give the GOP nearly enough credit for the thousands of ways they have tried to derail the thing. In terms of domestic sabotage of government this is a campaign to be studied.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  83. Tlaloc – Absolutely. Where is that choice between affordable plans Obama was promising?

    why do yu blame obama when the issue is insurance companies choosing not to compete.

    Hello, “failure of the free market” example #12765930218283921!

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  84. ==benefits of obamacare may not filter out to rural areas due to a lack of competition between insurers.==

    Yeah, nobody who has ever lived in a rural area or anyone who has ever sought medical treatment there while visting or passing trough could’ve seen that coming!

    elissa (93f70f)

  85. Tlaloc, on the one hand you’re arguing that ObamaCare is fine and dandy, and on the other hand you’re arguing that Republicans have sabotaged it.

    Decide on an argument, and get back to us.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  86. So, it’s the GOP’s fault that:

    healthcare.gov doesn’t work? Because, you know, healthcare.gov doesn’t work.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  87. Umm, no, Flailoc. Reason is saying that the state exchanges are working better than the fed’s, but that’s a low bar.

    here’s exactly what they say:

    We’ve heard a lot about how the minority of states running their own health insurance exchanges are faring much better than the 36 states in which the federal government is in charge. That’s definitely true. But better is a relative term, and any quasi-functional system is going to look good compared to the disaster that is the federal exchange system.

    translation- the states are working well but we hate obamacare and have to try and make it sound like they aren’t. When big opponents of the law tell you why you should think the good news is really bad news its clear they’ve lost the argument.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  88. Hmm. So the state exchanges work, but:

    healthcare.gov does not work.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  89. He is uncommonly dense;

    But here’s the thing: 40,000 people have applied through the state exchange and been told whether or not they qualify for subsidies. But that’s not how many people have actually enrolled. Those people may not have even selected a specific plan yet.

    narciso (3fec35)

  90. Tlaloc, on the one hand you’re arguing that ObamaCare is fine and dandy, and on the other hand you’re arguing that Republicans have sabotaged it.

    Decide on an argument, and get back to us.

    I’m arguing the state run exchanges are apparently fine. The fed run exchange (which only exists because of republican sabotage of the law) is certainly having problems. I think thos problems are actually pretty minor and being blown hugely out of proportion. I may be wrong on that point. I live in a state with a state run exchange so ultimately I don’t really care. Those who sabotaged the fed response are the ones hurt by the results.

    I think that’s called karma. Or just funny. Take your pick.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  91. I can see Flailoc wants me to trade in my hip boots for waders, but it’s still too early in the season.

    Steve57 (022c57)

  92. Tlaloc,

    Look, we realize you’re a vocal member of La Raza, and you’re angry at the country because of the Mexican American War and the Gadsen Purchase. Or whatever.

    But why must you be so dishonest in blaming the free market, when ObamaCare actually restricts the freedom of the marketplace—-precisely as designed by the authors of ObamaCare ?
    The insurance companies are merely reacting to the restriction imposed upon them by ObamaCare, yet you turn around and exclaim, “free market fail !”

    If you were an honest man, you would admit that medical insurance is severely restricted, and thus is not operating under the premises of the “free” market.
    …but that would require you to be honest. Or something.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  93. But here’s the thing: 40,000 people have applied through the state exchange and been told whether or not they qualify for subsidies. But that’s not how many people have actually enrolled. Those people may not have even selected a specific plan y

    Yes the worst thing reason could say about the exchanges was that people were mulling their options.

    Gosh, what an indictment. If people don’t come to a snap decision about their insurance clearly the system is a failure.

    ::eyeroll::

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  94. Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/24/2013 @ 5:47 pm

    Nothing about obamacare forces you to switch either doctr or insurance. If an insurance company chooses to stop offering a given insurance that’s on them.

    No. Certain kinds of policies have become eitehr illegal or maybe not valid for purposes of fulfilling the individual mandate to purchase insurance – I’m not sure which.

    CBS News reported just tonight what various conservatives have been saying for weeks – that hundreds of thousands of people have received notices that their policies will not be renewed.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57609224/arrival-of-obamacare-forcing-insurers-to-drop-customers-with-low-coverage/

    Scott Pelley:

    The president’s health care law raises the standards for insurance policies, which many consider to be a good thing. But hundreds of thousands of Americans whose policies don’t meet the new standards are being told that their health plans are being cancelled.

    As the saying goes, when you’ve lost Walter Cronkite Scott Pelley, you’ve lost America.

    Sammy Finkelman (4d9cfa)

  95. Sure, sure, I’m with you, sabotage.

    healthcare.gov does not work.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  96. Look, we realize you’re a vocal member of La Raza,

    Still batting .000
    I’m not hispanic. Are you ever going to give up trying to profile me, because inevitably you just embarrass yourself?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  97. Gotta go proctor an exam. See you later.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  98. As the saying goes, when you’ve lost Walter Cronkite Scott Pelley, you’ve lost America.

    Sammy Finkelman (4d9cfa)

  99. I’m embarrassed.

    healthcare.gov doesn’t work.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  100. What I am doing wrong?

    when you’ve lost Walter Cronkite Scott Pelley, you’ve lost America.

    Sammy Finkelman (4d9cfa)

  101. Proctor away.

    healthcare.gov does not work.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  102. Tlaloc,

    There’s a hungry desire inside of you to “punish” people who disagree with Obama’s ideology and tactics. Several times in the past you’ve cherfully spoken of Obama “punishing” your fellow Americans for the “crime” of simply disagreeing with him, such as in the case of him closing down the WW2 Memorial.
    And now you’re shaking your pom-poms about how the federal exchange website is not working, and thus how such a result is “karma,” or “just funny.”

    Yet people such as yourself who can’t succeed in the free market often must beg on the street corner and depend upon the kindness of strangers.
    In that case, perhaps you ought not be the one to be making jokes and talking about karma.

    But if you do a funny jig with your organ-grinding monkey, perhaps I will throw you a quarter.
    Can you catch ?

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  103. Interesting, and indicative of their m.o.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50157815n

    narciso (3fec35)

  104. It’s obvious that Tlaloc understands neither how the exchanges were supposed to work, or how insurance underwriting in general works. That said, I think that the insurance industry which decided to lie down with dogs kind of deserves a lot of what they’re getting. But who cannot feel very very bad for the millions of innocent American families who were satisfied with their pre-Obama healthcare and doctors, and who had full time 40 hr a week jobs prior to this fiasco.

    elissa (93f70f)

  105. “who ate the strawberries?”

    Comment by redc1c4 (abd49e) — 10/24/2013 @ 11:08 am

    Captain Queeg

    Yoda (ee1de0)

  106. Tlaloc needs to believe that living off the sweat of others is a natural right. It’s the only way he can justify his existence. BTW, are we sure it’s a “he”? No offense to the ladies here, but that kind of petulant, demanding dependence is not exactly a masculine quality.

    nk (dbc370)

  107. Obama has been so good at getting to the bottom of what happened with Benghazi, the IRS, Fast & Furious, the NSA listening in on Angela Merkel, and the failure of his very own ObamaCare website that we should re-hire him to run the country. Or something.

    After all, his non-existent stellar (!) college transcripts predicted this mess.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  108. Nothing about obamacare forces you to switch either doctr or insurance. If an insurance company chooses to stop offering a given insurance that’s on them.

    Comment by Tlaloc

    Anyone with even a passing knowledge of this is aware that it forces everyone to buy only policies that conform to certain coverages and dictates various other things such as how premiums are determined.

    Virtually all health insurance policies that previously existed are now illegal and the law is causing many premiums to skyrocket. That in turn is wreaking havoc and resulting in people being moved to exchanges in many businesses or a complete redesign of the plans. And once people are on the exchanges or a different policy they may not get to keep the same doctor in some cases either. UPS dropped 15,000 spouses from their health plans. Companies are canceling retiree health plans etc.

    Technically some of these decisions weren’t REQUIRED by Obamacare but since they are the RESULT of Obamacare it’s a distinction without a difference.

    Gerald A (130406)

  109. You don’t give the GOP nearly enough credit for the thousands of ways they have tried to derail the thing. In terms of domestic sabotage of government this is a campaign to be studied.

    Tlaloc, you remain a lying marxist POS.

    SPQR (768505)

  110. Tlaloc’s lying about the Reason piece is just as brazen.

    SPQR (768505)

  111. What I am doing wrong?

    when you’ve lost Walter Cronkite Scott Pelley, you’ve lost America.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (4d9cfa) — 10/24/2013 @ 6:02 pm

    Commenting!

    Yoda (ee1de0)

  112. But if you do a funny jig with your organ-grinding monkey, perhaps I will throw you a quarter.
    Can you catch ?

    Comment by Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 10/24/2013 @ 6:08 pm

    How do you tell the difference between the two?

    Yoda (ee1de0)

  113. Oh, nice try, nk. My chromosome sisterhood most unfortunately and apparently must accept Hillary and Kathleen Sebelius. But I’ll be damned if you can force me to claim Tlaloc.

    elissa (93f70f)

  114. EPIC TaFailalot.

    Colonel Haiku (32b8a6)

  115. I’m arguing the state run exchanges are apparently fine. The fed run exchange (which only exists because of republican sabotage of the law)

    There are so many lies and distortions in this one little excerpt, it is a marvel. The state exchanges are only fine in comparison to healthcare.gov. That does not make them fine. Better than thermonuclear meltdown still sucks.

    JD (209655)

  116. Tlaloc is proctoring. God help those students.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  117. Tlaloc,

    Considering that you support a President who has personally hung around with domestic terrorists (Ayers & Doehrn) as well as foreign terrorist sympathizers (Obama’s personal rolodex runs the gammut runs from Reverend Wright to Farrakhan to Edward Said to Rashid Khalidi, et al) perhaps it is a little cheesy of you to be accusing Republicans of “sabotage.”

    But that’s just the point; when it comes to actual terrorists who hurt, maim, and murder people, you lefties can barely bother to get out of your seats. Obama says he’ll negotiate with Iran, but not…John Boehner.

    In other words, when it comes to civil discourse among duly elected GOP officials, you lefties literally use over-the-top language (“bomb-throwers !” “hostage takers !” “The Republican Taliban !!!!!!!1!!!1!!!”) that you would never publicly use in characterizing actual terrorists.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  118. Who is surprised that the lying troll is firmly ensconced in a TA role in academia?

    JD (209655)

  119. In #121 I meant to write “civil discourse WITH duly elected GOP officials”

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  120. Tlaloc trolls with: “Nothing about obamacare forces you to switch either doctr or insurance. If an insurance company chooses to stop offering a given insurance that’s on them.”

    CBS says Tlaloc full of s**t.

    Tlaloc, your utter ignorance of the details of Obamacare but your enthusiasm for telling everyone who knows more than you that they are wrong … well, that’s why you’ll always be a lying marxist troll.

    SPQR (768505)

  121. Tlaloc #61:

    Tlaloc, you haven’t been reading anything. You are just lying.

    Come on guys, I was away for a bit due to work getting busy and I come back to this?

    fyi-
    http://reason.com/blog/2013/10/21/obamacares-state-run-exchanges-are-worki
    http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-09-30/business/42521235_1_obamacare-exchanges-small-business-owners-employers

    and more. I’m sure your apology will be forthcoming…

    Let’s look at your links:

    Here’s the title for your first link to a Reason.com article [emphasis supplied]: “Obamacare’s State Run Exchanges Are Working Better. But That Doesn’t Mean They’re Trouble Free

    As for your second link to a Washington Post article, it was written 9/30/2013 — the day before the ObamaCare website went live. The article optimistically told readers to expect good results in states with state-run exchanges and not so good results in other states. Maybe that was accurate and maybe it wasn’t, but you can’t use a forecast as proof that something happened.

    In short, I don’t think anyone owes you an apology.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  122. DRJ, indeed, I think Tlaloc just proved what I was saying about him. He didn’t read anything. He just coughed up links he paid no attention to.

    Lying troll.

    SPQR (768505)

  123. There are several state exchanges that have even wildly successful at dumping people on Medicaid.

    JD (209655)

  124. I’m sure your apology will be forthcoming…
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc)

    Nice try, dog breath. But I should have known that when a website I’d otherwise have some confidence in is cited by a leftist to back up his or her claims, the reality would hardly pass the smell test.

    reason.com, October 21: But here’s the thing: 40,000 people have applied through the [New York] state exchange and been told whether or not they qualify for subsidies. But that’s not how many people have actually enrolled. Those people may not have even selected a specific plan yet.

    Moreover, it appears that no one has fully enrolled so far. According to a story in this morning’s New York Daily News, none of the applications filed through the system have actually been transmitted to insurers yet. And health insurers selling plans in the state are also worried that the plan information being displayed on the exchanges isn’t correct…

    New York isn’t the only state-run exchange having trouble. Maryland — the state that President Obama specifically praised as being ahead of the curve on exchange implmentation a week before launch — was still “plagued by technical problems” last week, and state officials said at the time that it could be six weeks before it’s all fixed, according to a The Baltimore Sun report. Some improvements appear to have been made, but enrollment is still slow going. By the end of last week, just 2,400 people had actually enrolled in insurance through the state system. Hawaii’s system took two weeks to get up and running. Oregon’s health exchange, which delayed online functionality before October 1, still can’t enroll people in private plans at all. That functionality is still a minimum of two weeks away.

    Mark (58ea35)

  125. Who is surprised that the lying troll is firmly ensconced in a TA role in academia?

    Comment by JD

    Not the sort of employment he claimed only a week or two ago… at that time it was with a tech firm.

    Colonel Haiku (64a03d)

  126. TA is not much of an esconced position — more of trial concubinage in some professor’s harem for grad students — but I would be glad if he did make an honest dollar, even the niggardly stipend TAs get. My estimation of him would rise.

    nk (dbc370)

  127. THE GANG THAT COULDN’T SHOOT LIE STRAIGHT: “White House Tries To Float Bogus Story About GOP Leader Trashing Obama, Gets Caught. Flop sweat.”

    http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/178088/

    Colonel Haiku (74fa56)

  128. “why do yu blame obama when the issue is insurance companies choosing not to compete.”

    Tlaloc – Derp. Because it was a promise Obama made, not a promise insurance companies made. Derp.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  129. “That said, I think that the insurance industry which decided to lie down with dogs kind of deserves a lot of what they’re getting.”

    elissa – You mean after Obama threatened the industry with torches and pitch forks?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  130. 110, 117. Having forgotten the gender of a relatively frequent commenter I ought not hazard a guess, but I’d say Howard J. was born with one Y chromosome.

    Not certain on the number of Xs tho. The subject has claimed a plethora of dubious things but a genetic malady was hinted at in their needing life-long expert attention for an atrophying condition.

    I can think of only a very few such infective causes, e.g., like AIDS.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  131. I’m sure your apology will be forthcoming…
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc)

    I apologize for assuming, for just a fleeting moment, that you might be trying to be honest. Turns out I was wrong. I apologize.

    JD (209655)

  132. I will wait for Sen. Reid’s apologies for his absolute lie about Rep. Session’s alleged remarks. You know because Democrats never do such things.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  133. he did illuminate unintentionally, the depth of the failure of Schrodinger’ website,

    narciso (3fec35)

  134. So, in #76, sperm god tells us nothing in the law “forces you to switch” Drs. or insurance, despite all the endless stories of policies cancelled because they no longer meet one-size-fits-all minimum requirements, and Drs. quitting their practice or switching to cash-only/concierge medicine. I guess he thinks the insurers would just magically add all the additional requirements to existing policies at existing premiums, with the same deductibles and out of pocket maxes?

    Then in #87 the same genius informs us its the insurance companies’ failure to compete that results in no choice in rural markets.

    Geez, maybe O-care shoulda just “required” certain market area coverage, too. After all that worked so well for the policy makeup…I’m sure there wouldn’t be unforeseen consequences of a couple hundred more pages to the law…

    Anyone have the over/under on the ratio of policies cancelled or employers dropping coverage plans (I know, that’s all on the evil companies too, nothing to do with compliance costs or rising premiums… or even the anointed one’s direct extra-legal waiver of the requirement to provide coverage for another year) to actual O-care signups (as in purchases, not just the “enrollment” required to get an actual, accurate quote)? 10:1? You can include the “functioning” state exchanges too, if you want.

    Good luck with your software degree, spermie, since you haven’t got a clue about economics. Heck, if you graduate in a year or two, maybe you can join the team that’s still trying to fix the exchanges.

    rtrski (421c72)

  135. JD – A good number of Democrat legislators have turned racist in the past couple of days, suggesting delays in the individual mandate similar to those which Republicans were proposing.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  136. Not that my prediction track record is stellar, but I think 6 weeks will only help developers in dropping features.

    You know, putting up disclaimer splash screens “Individual results may very but…”

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  137. I was in a grocery store check-out lane this evening and I noticed one of the periodicals on sale was a “special” thick-bound magazine put out on an occasional basis by Time magazine. It was a tribute edition to — drum roll, please — John Kennedy, his face looming large on the cover with the title of “Enduring Legacy.”

    Oh, brother.

    I tried to envision the dippy, effete liberals comfortably housed in Time’s ivory tower in Manhattan swooning over and getting teary-eyed for that politician — 50 years since Dallas!!! — in spite of their undoubtedly knowing full well about recent information that makes him look scroungier than previously assumed.

    I’m sure such journalists are salivating over the idea of a similar special-edition tribute mag for their current hero and savior, Barry Obama.

    Liberalism means never having to say you’re sorry.

    Mark (58ea35)

  138. Norn Ornstein, who has been around DC forever, has this wonderful snipet …

    Go back, first, to Max Baucus’s famous and widely distorted and misused “train wreck” comment in a hearing to Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius in April 2013. Contrary to Ted Cruz and countless other Republicans, Baucus did not call Obamacare a train wreck—he was referring directly to its implementation through the website. He said, “I understand you’ve hired a contractor. I’m just worried that that’s going to be money down the drain because contractors like to make money more than they like to do anything else. That’s their job. They’ve got to worry about their shareholders and whatnot.

    >They knew back in April that the web site was going to be a “train wreck.”

    If Sebelius, the president, the leaders at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, and other White House officials were unaware before that hearing about the implementation problems, they could not be unaware afterward. And, as we are now hearing, the stark internal warnings from tech experts of deep-seated problems in the programs came months ago and went unheeded.

    HHS secretary Sebelius has been lying her ass off since the healthcare.gov rollout claiming the the “Sargent Schultz defense” for her hapless incompetent boss.

    Neo (d1c681)

  139. For anybody looking for some lite bedtime reading, Michelle’s 1985 Princeton thesis on her black experience is available for download (in 4 parts) over at weaselzippers.us

    elissa (93f70f)

  140. Correction to #140 – I should have said more racist. As Democrats they are already demonstrably racists.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  141. 143. I’m sizing up an ultra-thin 5 cheese pizza for that purpose. Pepperoni and Mookies give me nightmares nowadays.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  142. Buttholes like Howard Dean apparently are a rather common phenomenon among the crowd that embraces other liberals like Obama.

    realclearpolitics.com, October 24: On the top of Thursday’s broadcast of his radio show, Sean Hannity revealed Erling Davis, the Obamacare operator he called early in his Monday show, got fired. Hannity quizzed her on how well the law is being received by applicants and she revealed no one liked it.

    SEAN HANNITY: Something happened between the time we made that call to you, and now, what happened?

    ERLING DAVIS: They fired me from my job.

    HANNITY: Because of the phone call, the information that you gave us?

    DAVIS: Yes sir.

    HANNITY: Tell us what happened.

    DAVIS: ….So the next day I came back and they had, like, two people escort me upstairs to H.R. And then it was three head people and me, we sat down, and I’m like, “why am I up here?” I figured, okay, they wanna talk about the phone call – the incident.

    Then the lady sitting behind the desk; I don’t know what their name is, but the lady that was sitting behind the desk, I guess called up another head lady on her cell phone, so the lady was talking, and I couldn’t really understand what she was saying because she had me on speakerphone. I remember her saying, “We can’t have this type of stuff going on here, so we have to release you.” But they had locked the doors and everything; I guess they didn’t want anybody to come in there.

    HANNITY: And what was the specific reason? When they sat you down, did they give you a specific reason?

    DAVIS: They said that no contact with the media. No type of media whatsoever. We’re not allowed to do that at that company.

    HANNITY: Meaning, in other words, they didn’t tell you before you were hired, they didn’t tell you during your training, but then they told you after the fact that you aren’t allowed to be on the media if somebody called in. It’s not your fault I called.

    ^ Merely another statistic of Obama’s “hope and change.”

    Mark (58ea35)

  143. Number 66 is a really good comment – but it sounds like a reply to something I wrote on another thread.

    Sammy Finkelman (4d9cfa)

  144. Honestly, though, did anyone really expect Obamacare to work?

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  145. Too bad you don’t live in a more liberal state with a well functioning exchange, huh?

    Speaking of “moochers”, California’s state exchange was built with a billion dollars of federal money. That’s a lot of mooch right there. And not all state exchanges work. For every California, there’s a Connecticut.

    And even though California’s exchange works, the choices are slim. There is, for example, no PPO plan past bronze.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  146. 148. Heh, indeed.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  147. #61:

    All those links say is that some state exchanges haven’t completely failed (“working better than the federal site”) and even then haven’t really signed anyone up.

    You shouldn’t just link stuff and then claim they say something different.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  148. 77. Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 10/24/2013 @ 5:48 pm

    According to a story in this morning’s New York Daily News, none of the applications filed through the system have actually been transmitted to insurers yet.

    Because that would be done through the federal system (at least if someone wants to collect a subsidy/reduced price/tax rebate) and nobody trusts that to work.

    It doesn’t work, unless the enrollments are processed manually by the insurance company.

    The Daily News editorial last Saturday (entitled http://www.aHugeMess.com) gave another reason

    …the Health Department has quietly held off sending enrollment data to insurance providers pending a check of its accuracy. The material was promised Oct. 1, then Oct. 15 and then Friday evening.

    Something has been wrong, perhaps with the system’s ability to compile data, perhaps with its ability to ttransmit information to health insurers.

    And health insurers selling plans in the state are also worried that the plan information being displayed on the exchanges isn’t correct:

    That would be, I guess, grounds for cancellation.

    The New York Post reported that the Cuomo Admnistration announced on Wednesday that 37,000 people in New York State had signed up for Obamacare – but almost two-thirds of that (23,717 of 37,030 (64.04%) was Medicaid. Only 13,33 bought insurance.

    In Washington state and Minnesota, 90% of th enrollments were into Medicaid. They don’t know they could get billed thousands and thousands of dollars if their income goes up and they don’t get it cancelled. I think.

    The income level for Medicaid has now been raised to $23,550 for a family of four.

    Sammy Finkelman (4d9cfa)

  149. 148. Comment by Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/24/2013 @ 8:49 pm

    Honestly, though, did anyone really expect Obamacare to work?

    A lot of people did not expect the individual mandate to work, but as narciso said @66

    we had minimum expectations, that this would not be a Dilbert episode writ large

    Sammy Finkelman (4d9cfa)

  150. The Lamestream was highlighting a $24 Billion hit to a $14 Trillion odd economy over the Slowdown.

    There’s slightly worse possibilities in the news lately. DRJ touched on some of its angles.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-24/guest-post-growing-rift-saudi-arabia-threatens-severely-damage-petrodollar

    China has passed the US as largest importer, I don’t suppose they’d like to diversify.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  151. 153. Congrats Sammy, a reasonable comment. Actually playing nicely with others. We knew you had one in you.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  152. zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-24/guest-post-growing-rift-saudi-arabia-threatens-severely-damage-petrodollar

    The story at that link is interesting in a variety of ways, certainly in this era of Obamaeconomics. But the part that stood out to me the most — because of how symbolically revealing it is — pertains to a city where just about every living soul is a staunch liberal/Democrat:

    motorcitymuckraker.com: Detroit’s new police chief got an early taste of the city’s hardscrabble streets. While in his patrol car at an intersection on Jefferson two weeks ago, Police Chief James Craig was nearly carjacked, police spokeswoman Kelly Miner confirmed today.

    Craig said he was in a marked police car with mounted lights when a man quickly tried to approach the side of his car. Craig, who became police chief in June, retold the story Monday during a program designed to crack down on carjackings.

    So far, the city has recorded more than 580 carjackings – on pace with past years.

    Mark (58ea35)

  153. So at the moment 404care, that promised to add 30 Million ‘Americans’ to the insured is running behind in paying customers, roughly, 10,000 to one.

    And the only way the IRS would appear able to collect the ‘tax’ is from a refund.

    I’d say delay or no, this is going to leave a nasty mark.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  154. I like the comment about blaming Ted Cruz. Yea, Ted Cruz, its his fault.

    alrightalready (85ab0c)


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