With the Restoration of Non-Essential Government Services, Everything Is Now Fixed And We Can All Relax
Isn’t it wonderful? Now we can keep going into more and more debt!
Maybe the best thing about the shutdown is that the press will now focus like a laser on the shortcomings of ObamaCare. See, Dave Weigel had explained to all of us that, yes, it was crazy for the press to ask zero questions of Obama, during an hour-plus press conference, about the disastrous rollout. But that was Republicans’ fault, because “shutdown”! (That’s Big Media’s term for the slowdown that just ended.)
So now, the slowdown is over, and we have non-essential goverment services back, so Weigel will demand another press conference with Obama where covering the rollout is Job Number One. Like quality at Ford. (Come to think of it, a lot like quality at Ford.)
I’ll get the ball rolling with this, an item that I was too lazy to blog when the story broke saved for when the slowdown was over: Kos Kid freaks out upon learning that ObamaCare will increase his premiums: Obamacare will double my monthly premium (according to Kaiser):
My wife and I just got our updates from Kaiser telling us what our 2014 rates will be. Her monthly has been $168 this year, mine $150. We have a high deductible. We are generally healthy people who don’t go to the doctor often. I barely ever go. The insurance is in case of a major catastrophe.
Well, now, because of Obamacare, my wife’s rate is gong to $302 per month and mine is jumping to $284.
I am canceling insurance for us and I am not paying any fucking penalty. What the hell kind of reform is this?
Oh, ok, if we qualify, we can get some government assistance. Great. So now I have to jump through another hoop to just chisel some of this off. And we don’t qualify, anyway, so what’s the point?
Ha. But what makes it the best post in weeks is the comments. Which are exactly what you would expect.
Expect to see many more stories like this, as the media turns its big guns on ObamaCare.
Yes, I am joking.
P.S. “I am canceling insurance for us and I am not paying any fucking penalty. What the hell kind of reform is this?” Hahahahahahahahahahaha.
Schadenboner
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:24 amIf only we had tried to tell him.
What’s that, you say? We did?
Oh. Then I don’t feel so bad.
Patterico (9c670f) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:26 amTirge the diarist was obviously a “sleeper”!/sarc
felipe (70ff7e) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:32 amTwo of my three sons are currently living overseas. I may advise them to continue doing so, you know, for the experience, or at least until the Senate changes hands and Obama leaves office.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:35 amIf 26 year olds can stay on their parents plans, why would they sign up on the exchanges?
JD (62c1eb) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:40 amJD – Maybe if parents don’t have a plan and are buying on the exchange themselves?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:42 amGood point, since so many are losing their individual and family coverage thanks to this clusterfark
JD (62c1eb) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:46 amWho was ridiculing me just last month, when I wrote that we’d see bipartisan calls for repeal by year’s end?
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:47 amP.S. “I am canceling insurance for us and I am not paying any fucking penalty.
Everyone needs to keep in mind that the IRS was allocated millions and millions of additional dollars to supervise oversight of Obamacare. So it will be a game of whac-a-mole that more taxpayers will be forced to play with their beautiful federal government.
Since a lot of liberals give emotional and political accommodations to extremists like Nidal Hasan, maybe they’re onto something. Maybe this society really deserves to be tanked. After all, if it’s good enough for Greece, Argentina or Mexico, et al, it’s good enough for us.
Mark (58ea35) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:49 amHonestly, I would laugh at the comments if they didn’t show how ignorant people are about economics and how adding requirements and users to the system increase costs.
What the heck are they teaching in college these days?
rochf (f3fbb0) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:53 amIf Nidal Hasan was gay, it would be too much for you to handle.
JD (62c1eb) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:54 amMy favorite comments are of the ‘are you sure you’re accessing the website correctly’ variety. I half expected someone to ask if he had any internets experience.
The traitor comments are funny but unoriginal.
East Bay Jay (a5dac7) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:54 amWell you asked for it schmuck. Now you’ve got it.
Comanche Voter (c39ceb) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:55 amReality does smack people up alongside the head once in a while, but some take longer to learn from experience than others.
Obama supporters revel in prevailing on a budget fight but seem to miss that Democrats’ hypocrisy in the terror war, expansion of the surveillance state, incompetence resulting in collapse of Obamacare, and disasterous economic policies are discrediting Democrat policies for a generation.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:01 amDuring the shutdown, the NY Times wrote 80+ stories on the victims of government closure. NY Times wrote zero stories on the problems with Obamacare.
Don’t hold your breath.
AZ Bob (c99389) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:01 amPresident Obama just spoke, saying NOTHING about this shutdown has helped the economy.
“We’ve got yet another self inflicted crises that has set our economy back. And for what? There was no economic rationale for all of this. Over the past four years our economy has been growing, we have been creating jobs, and our deficits have been cut in half. We hear some members who pushed for the shutdown say they were doing it to save the American economy. He followed with, “But nothing has been done more to undermine our economy in the past three years than the kind of tactics that created this manufactured crisis.”
He went on about how our credit rating around the world has been damaged, blah, blah. That’s all I could listen to.
Dana (6178d5) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:11 amOn topic: I suspect that the average loiterer at Rico’s has a quasi-Cadillac plan. Pre-tax savings accounts are restricted but intact. Deductibles are manageable, contributions rising but at some smallish multiple of the CPI. Ho hum.
An extended metaphor from astrophysics: We’re all familiar with the image of a black hole, that of a dark, spinning, flattened orb into which any material or energetic form leaves off contact with the outside universe on passing across the ‘event horizon’.
That’s the appearance to outsiders. To the captured the outside universe will continue to appear normal. The lights will stay on.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:12 am…now he’s moved on to illegal immigration and how it will help our economic growth to make illegals legal… then pass a farm bill….
Why waste an opportunity.
Dana (6178d5) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:13 amDana, his lies about how everything is some one else’s fault reminds me of every pathetic loser I have ever run across.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:14 am8. You predicted the design’s end goal?
Calls to fix the chimera with a ‘single payer’ solution may burgeon as well?
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:15 amWell, SPQR, he has just reminded us that we can now see how much we all depend on the government, and lists off the various items that are apparently, ‘essential’… It doesn’t remotely cross his mind that excessive reliance on the government is perhaps not a good thing.
He’s now discussing the model of the founding fathers.
Dana (6178d5) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:19 amOne thing the Republicans managed was to successfully fight a rearguard action on the sequester cuts. Dem’s failed to remove those as was their goal going in. House Republicans failed to highlight that in public.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:24 amyou’ll just be sitting there minding your own business and they come marching in they crawl up your leg and start biting the inside of your ass and you’re all like HEY GET OUT OF MY ASS YOU STUPID FREE MASONS
happyfeet (8ce051) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:25 amThe Founders would laugh at the small petty petulant Obama.
JD (62c1eb) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:27 amIn other news:
The Washington Redskins are changing their name because of the negativity, shame, humiliation, animosity, contempt, ridicule and hostility associated with it. From now on they will be known as The Redskins.
nk (dbc370) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:36 am“On topic: I suspect that the average loiterer at Rico’s has a quasi-Cadillac plan.”
gary – I have deliberately gone naked on health insurance the past four years working as an independent contractor. I’ve got fairly significant but predictable maintenance med expenses and have seen no reason to trade dollars with an insurance company. Plus, with some ability to shift income and expenses from year to year, I am able to manage a nice medical expense deduction every other year.
In 2014, if I elect to purchase insurance on an exchange, I am looking forward to the prospect of the know-nothing trolls who drive by this site subsidizing said purchase.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:38 amMr. Feets – I prefer the Shriners with their little cars and stuff, plus its all for a good cause.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:41 amAny of these politicians that don’t mention how they’ve done NOTHING to address the nation’s $17,000,000,000,000 structural debt problem (let alone 70T in unfunded liabilities) is not serious about any of this.
And these wimpy libs were fine when they thought other people would’ve funding healthcare for the uninsured.
Colonel Haiku (9b8fed) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:43 amWould’ve been
Colonel Haiku (9b8fed) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:44 am26. Like paying your McMansion property taxes two year’s at a time? Office expenses ditto. Accelerated amortizations of durable goods?
Those are just the rumors I’ve heard. I can do the SE taxes but we don’t make enough to actually know how to plan ahead.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:44 amok Mr. daley you’re in charge of keeping an eye on these shriners
these free masons are kind of a handful
they keep taking my pudding
happyfeet (8ce051) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:52 amIf these services and bureaucrats were deemed ‘non-essential’ for the past two weeks, isn’t that proof that they are, like, ‘non-essential’ or something ?
Therefore, it isn’t really essential for them to go back to work. Or whatever.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:52 amThe Shriners puts on the circus every year in Los Angeles. I like watching the elephant do tricks. And then when the fat lady starts singing, you know it is time to go home.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:55 amAwww yeah, teh victory mince…
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/10/17/video-obama-includes-attack-on-bloggers-talk-radio-and-the-first-amendment-in-his-shutdown-touchdown-dance/
Colonel Haiku (4e5a95) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:02 amI don’t think anybody predicted that the rollout – the basic software – would be this bad.
Once people get through the registration, they then run into the problem of seeing whether particular doctors and hospitals are in the plans.
That part is not ready. (except in a few states(
The state that has the best web site apparently (it doesn’t even require you to register in order to browse) is Washington, home of Microsoft and Amazon.com and many excellent programmers.
Sammy Finkelman (982d84) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:03 amCNN radio news had a fed employee saying that his “trust in government will never be the same”. Luckily, I had already finished my cup of coffee.
Colonel Haiku (4e5a95) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:05 amNews reports that Yosemite was reopened last evening after the Senate vote was taken.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:10 amObviously, the NPS just “knew” that the House would roll-over and have its belly rubbed.
So, now we know exactly what the point was of closing parks and monuments.
There will be a reckoning at some point in the future, and the Apparat will not like it at all, but will well deserve it.
That’s what he said at Ohio State, before the IRS revelations, they borrowed 200 billion in the meantime.
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:18 amNPS guy tells Congress he “can’t remember” who it was in WH who told him to close the Nat’l Parks.
Colonel Haiku (0f1c4b) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:28 amY’all are mocking him and he will NOT be mocked.
Colonel Haiku (fb49f6) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:32 am15.During the shutdown, the NY Times wrote 80+ stories on the victims of government closure. NY Times wrote zero stories on the problems with Obamacare.
This is not true. See here .
James B. Shearer (92aef1) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:32 amColonel,
It was probably just a low-level employee in
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:38 amCincinattithe White House that went rogue and told the NPS ranger to close the National Parks.Move along, now.
‘these are not the droids you’re looking for,
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:39 amAlmost no working person under the age of 30 will get a dime in subsidy. To get a subsidy not only must you get under the qualifying income level, but your “Silver Plan” insurance cost must then exceed 9.5% of your income. That excess is your tax credit, which you can apply to any plan, not just the Silver one.
This means that older people are MUCH more likely to get a credit than younger people. At 60, anyone who qualifies for any subsidy will get more than half back. At 30, probably nothing unless your income is markedly under the cut-off.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:54 amThere’s a chunk of irony, there, remember to thank Sandra Fluke,
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:55 amP.S. “I am canceling insurance for us and I am not paying any fucking penalty.
Now, which do you think they’ll go after first: people who refuse to get insurance and tell them to F off, or people who lie about their income to get a tax credit?
And will being on a Republican or Tea Party donor list affect this?
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:58 amExpect the non-essential.
Colonel Haiku (0f1c4b) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:04 amNPS guy tells Congress he “can’t remember” who it was in WH who told him to close the Nat’l Parks.
I watched that news clip, and thought to myself (well, actually, I screamed at the screen) “What kind of fools do you take this committee for?” –
why would any administration official be talking to the White House without knowing to whom they were talking with?
It is interesting that Issa immediately climbed down his throat over volumes of docs that were previously asked for months ago and not delivered,
but Issa said would be subpoenaed.
If the Congress can get back to “regular order”, future appropriation hearings for the NPS might be not so pleasant.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:07 amThe Kos Diarist who wrote what Patterico quotes is clearly a young family man with a child who is now discovering that the secret forumla underpinning Obamacare was forcing young people into plans where they payed more than they need to, so that old sick people could have cheaper plans.
Old system:
rate spread 20 years old to 60: 5 to 1
rates for sick people: 2 or 3 to 1
New system:
rate spread 20 years old to 60: 3 to 1
rates for sick people: flat rate system
So, instead of paying 10 times as much as young healthy people, old sick people pay 3 times as much. Is it a big shock that rates for young people double? Gonna cancel and get out of the system? Sorry, there’s a
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:10 ampenaltytax if you do that.*paid
sheesh.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:11 amThe comments on the Kos post are so golden.
People just cannot believe it is due to Obamacare. In fact, one person claimed he should go to the exchanges because this high deductible sounds like crap insurance. I commented this before, and this is purely an analogy, but I have heard from several people who will pay hundreds of dollars a month with deductibles in the thousands. This was found directly on the exchanges. It’s all crap insurance and Obama will hide from the media until he can blame Republicans for something else.
ratbeach (f5aad4) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:12 amfuture appropriation hearings for the NPS might be not so pleasant.
Much simpler is to zero out all funds for everyone who works directly for the guy in question. Unless of course, someone there might be more forthcoming.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:13 am80-1 is a good ratio, no? I guess we have to take everything literally for Señor Shearer.
JD (62c1eb) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:14 am50- Could they transfer his office to a shack located in a swamp in LA, accessible only by air-boat?
askeptic (b8ab92) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:19 amIf he does not know who ordered everything closed, how could he possibly know they had the authority to do so?
JD (62c1eb) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:20 amNegotiating with the Democrats is like playing chess with a pigeon. The pigeon knocks over all the pieces, sh*ts on the board and then struts around like it won the game.
Colonel Haiku (8cb0f3) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:22 amAZ Bob, at 15:
> NY Times wrote zero stories on the problems with Obamacare.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/13/us/politics/from-the-start-signs-of-trouble-at-health-portal.html
Maybe you don’t mean problems with the website. But “problems with the website” are at the very least problems with the implementation of Obamacare, and the NYT *has* covered such problems.
aphrael (f55c78) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:42 amnb – I have a Cadillac plan.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/10/government-shutdown-affects-biomedical-research/
carlitos (49ef9f) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:46 amAnd they wrote one piece today about some features of the website, if this were a W project, it would Katrina all over again, with Anderson Vanderbilt and Shep pitching a fit in front of the screen,
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:51 amThe problems with the ObamaCare website will likely be blamed on “low level flunkies” in Cincinatti.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:53 amIt’s always those low level flunkies in Cincy who are screwing everything up.
The good news is we’re not in this alone.
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2013/10/15/europe-is-burning-slowly-2/
We’ve got a boat anchor tangled in our leg irons.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:53 amnarciso, at 57, if you’re talking about http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/17/us/comparison-shopping-still-hard-on-exchanges.html?ref=politics, i actually took that as being *critical* of the implementation – it’s not just about “some features”, it’s a condemnation of the failure of those features.
aphrael (f55c78) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:59 amElephant Stone – I think the problem with the Obamacare website is pretty serious, and it suggests that the contractor responsible should be ineligible for future contracts, and it might even suggest that we need to reconsider how government software contracts are handled.
I’m coming at this as a software professional; the implementation seems to be *a disaster*, and heads should roll … but rolling heads isn’t enough; the process which led to this needs to be analyzed and changed so that the next major project doesn’t behave the same way.
aphrael (f55c78) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:03 amThey should pass a law mandating that websites work correctly.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:04 amThe pre-election Obama administration promised to have all bills posted on their website for 5 days of public review, so they are probably expert enough to fix this.
carlitos (49ef9f) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:05 amR.I.P. Congressman Bill Young of Florida
Icy (5f7cca) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:07 amaprhael, vis a vis the ObamaCare website, I think that the contractor has proven to be incompetent enough to qualify for government work.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:08 amAphrael – this was not a process problem. It was political. They knowingly created a huge bottleneck.
JD (5bc735) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:11 am“I am canceling insurance for us and I am not paying any fucking penalty.”
I’d like to be a fly on the wall when this chump get the letter from his bank telling him the IRS has scooped up his whole bank account.
glenn (647d76) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:14 amWow, just last week, Congressman Young had announced he would retire after serving out this current term.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:14 amaprhrael, maybe
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:16 amNancy Pelosithe Obama Administration decided they had to quickly set up the website in order to find out what was in it.Oh, different Young.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD_1B4vmkh4
carlitos (49ef9f) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:16 amDid I read correctly when you said how the “Big media will turn its guns on this”?
I not only think that this gun turning will never happen but I fully expect the Republican leaders to pick away at the worst parts of the ACA law in an effort to make it more palatable so that the law crumbles under it’s own weight……..Quicker.
Drider (2d32c7) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:28 amits!!!!
carlitos (49ef9f) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:31 amActually by long tradition fools are allowed to mock the king.
Tlaloc (45c5b7) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:32 amwhich would explain why you are still allowed to poast here.
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:41 am74. Guess Howard J. didn’t get thru Cliff Notes’ King Lear?
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:43 amAh, the vaunted youth vote that put Obama into office twice.
I shouldn’t laugh – I’m probably adding aeons to my time in Purgatory for it – but I can’t stop snickering. Every time I suppress a snicker, it comes out as a giggle, and the suppressed giggles come out, too.
I shouldn’t laugh; he and his wife are taking a massive gamble. But we warned them, begged them, and took the slings and arrows of public scorn for them. I can’t help but laugh, a little.
bridget (37b281) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:44 am67. An interesting strategy: Prove Government quintessentially incapable that we beget more, nay, total Government.
I owe the Fwench an apology.
Not today.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:47 amI am canceling insurance for us and I am not paying any fucking penalty. What the hell kind of reform is this?
Some liberals are just too stupid for words.
Bill M (c8f413) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:51 amI keep hearing from recruiters re: my legacy engineering experience that web developers are a dime a dozen.
Figures the Government would screw a surfeit at home and hire apparent tyrones abroad.
That their end of Amerikkka’s total destruction is in view must have them wetting themselves.
When martial law is declared go for the families of Federal employees.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:57 amActually Valls the interior minister, is really the only popular member of Hollandaise’s cabinet;
http://www.ijreview.com/2013/10/87474-yale-professors-surprising-discovery-tea-party-supporters-scientifically-literate/
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:58 amOne thing the Republicans managed was to successfully fight a rearguard action on the sequester cuts. Dem’s failed to remove those as was their goal going in. House Republicans failed to highlight that in public.
Rush Limbaugh was making this point too. No one can plausibly claim that the GOP “won” this standoff, but there is a silver lining. As you may recall, in the wake of Obama’s reelection the Democrats were discussing not only replacing he sequester, but also passing a Stimulus Phase II which would have dumped another quarter trillion or so on their pet causes. Now it is up to the GOP negotiators not only to drive a stake in the heart of Stimulus Phase II but to also make sure that the sequester stays put.
At this point I don’t even care if the GOP has to swallow another tax increase*, just as long as they block all attempts by Obama and the Dems to increase spending. If “losing” means forcing the Democrats to bring the deficit down, then I can stand some losing.
* this is provided that a budget deal includes long-term entitlement reform
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:58 amTlaloc,
Serious question… Why are you here? You remind me of a former commenter (won’t say which one) from long ago, but I really don’t care if you’ve been here before or not beyond a very mild curiosity. What I would really like to know is if you do this for amusement, payment, or a serious desire to inform people who have different political views.
If the latter, the way you address people invites the abuse you receive. Any information you provide is instantly discounted, not because of any blindness or epistemic closure on the part of conservatives, but because of your initial attitude and unfounded assumptions (always negative and smug) about commenters here who have earned a degree of respect based on our experience with them.
I have no wish to fight or argue with you. I’m just wondering what you hope to accomplish. If I was still an active moderator (I have the ability, but not the time or energy these days) I would suggest to Patterico that he should put you in moderation just because your comments appear to intentionally provoke anger and you derail thread topics.
So, I ask again… Why are you here?
Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:58 amSince lots of people are getting canceled due to problems with the policy not meeting mandates, that would mean that the rest of us who haven’t gotten cancellation notices are closing in on Cadillac plan status and will be getting fined…er, taxed at the end of the year.
Right?
Patricia (be0117) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:59 amI’m coming at this as a software professional; the implementation seems to be *a disaster*, and heads should roll … but rolling heads isn’t enough; the process which led to this needs to be analyzed and changed so that the next major project doesn’t behave the same way.
aphrael, when over the past five years has anyone in the Obama Administration been held accountable for gross incompetence or colossal failure? Maybe the one poor schnook whom they forced out over Fast and Furious, but he is the exception not the rule.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:01 pmNow that ‘visits’ have collapsed traffic is no longer an issue:
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/10/answers-remain-scarce-weeks-into-obamacare-website-launch/
Fifty people have signed up in WI, one of the Federally administered exchanges.
Jubilant celebration has accompanied the first success in DE today.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:06 pm85. Ken Mehlman, no relation to Larry Bud.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:08 pmMahhhh baby’s got… a Cadillac Plan… she gotta Cadillac Plan… she got the Cadillac… playun…
Colonel Haiku (207b84) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:09 pma little Mink DeVille for teh peeps…
Colonel Haiku (207b84) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:10 pmUPDATE: Bill Young NOT dead!
Icy (5f7cca) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:13 pmAlthough he IS gravely ill (aka On his deathbed)
THIS IS THE LAST TIME I LISTEN TO LUKE RUSSERT!!!
[and Wikipedia; they put up today as his date of death, and then took it back down]
He’s just feelin’ a bit under the weather, but when teh IceMan tolls…
Colonel Haiku (207b84) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:15 pmTurtlea all the way down,
http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/de-blasio-meets-with-anti-israel-muslim-leaders-promises-open-season-for-synagogue-bombings/
paging Snake Plissken;
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:22 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DkcQ09h2Vo
carlitos (49ef9f) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:23 pmIt’s the “life of Julia” surcharge. All that s*** costs money.
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:26 pmFirst, I second Stashiu3’s comment
Second, as mentioned above already in ref to aphrael and others, it has been claimed by some that the difficulty with the ObamaCare website being bottlenecked is in part by design, that they made it impossible for people to just browse by for curiosity to see the figures, but to make one persist in actually wanting to commit before finding out the details.
I don’t know, only repeating what some people probably more knowledgeable than I are saying.
Third, not surprised by the comments at Kos, nor the findings of the Yale prof (Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:58 am). In spite of the predominant view in the pop culture and media, I do think conservatives are actually more fact based. After all, it was the Tea Party folk who wanted people in Congress to actually read the bill before voting on it, rather than taking it by faith that Nancy Pelosi knew what was best for all of us.
One question is how many people who comment at Kos who have the same experience will it take to make a majority believe what is demonstrably true?
The next question is will those people decide they’ve been lied to and react negatively,
or will they buy the spin that what we really need is more government control with single payer.
Fourth, the repubs still need to realize that president Obama and Co. are not playing the same game by the same rules. He is not trying to govern the country and willing to work with repubs,
he is trying to consolidate power so he can then do whatever the heck he wants.
Fifth, the ball game is not over, if the reality can be put forth that ObamaCare is a mess after all, and that maybe Ted Cruz wasn’t so off the track after all.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:26 pmThx, Carlitos! always loved that song
Colonel Haiku (5eaa1e) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:27 pmSixth, if the main reason for a job appointment is cronyism and ideological agreement, competence will never be an issue.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:29 pmBaby, honey baby, you’re the one
Colonel Haiku (5eaa1e) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:29 pmCarve yo name right on my gun
JD: wait, so you’re saying they *deliberately* set up a non-functional website for some political purpose? I think that’s a pretty strong claim, and I’d like to see evidence to support it.
I know from personal experience that it’s easy for software projects to go horribly wrong, and to fall behind the schedule. I think occam’s razor says it’s far more likely that this is a fuckup than a conspiracy — because I’ve been involved in software projects that have gone almost as badly and which have only ended up succeeding because we were able to push the release date out beyond the original required date, which wasn’t an option here.
Furthermore … scalability and reliability are hard; facebook, amazon, and google spend enormous amounts of money on engineers who do nothing *except* optimize this sort of problem.
aphrael (f55c78) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:35 pmSeventh, as seen in the latest Massachusetts and New Jersey senate elections, being a fraud doesn’t hurt Democrat candidates.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:36 pmI think that says more about the voters than it does the republican candidate.
aphrael, actually the disaster that is Obamacare is part and parcel of large civilian Federal government software projects. Even very competent software organization (which CGI is most certainly not) have difficulty getting any progress out of Federal agencies to define requirements in either clarity or timeliness.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:38 pmaphrael, scalability and reliability are hard indeed, but we know how to do it.
And in Obamacare, the implication is strong that the scalability problem was inherent in incompetent design of the front end and has a useful side benefit of hiding the incompetence of the back end.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:39 pmI know that it’s only Thursday, but now that non-essential gub’mint services have been restored it feels like a Pleasant Valley Sunday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sUzs5dlLrm0
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:41 pmFrom his speech, Obama sure hates dissent. We’ve never had such a narcissistic person in the White House – and given the personalities we’ve had that’s saying something.
And we’ve never had someone with so few talents to be narcissistic about.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:46 pmJD: wait, so you’re saying they *deliberately* set up a non-functional website for some political purpose? I think that’s a pretty strong claim, and I’d like to see evidence to support it.
That is not what I said, aphrael. In their desire to avoid window shopping and rate shock, they designed a crap system. And we are supposed to trust them when they can’t even do the basics right?
JD (3994cd) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:47 pmThe theme song for Obamacare fans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BKt07B3A6U
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:48 pmAnd we’ve never had someone with so few talents to be narcissistic about.
This is the logical conclusion when someone grows up constantly hearing how wonderful, special, and indispensable they are. Barack Obama is the end result of self-esteem gone haywire, even if he is a bit too old to have been a product of the institutionalized self-esteem movement. He should serve as a warning to us all.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:52 pmYou see how this works;
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=E56AECC5-E755-4674-9805-AD348E74BF58 …
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:55 pm99. “I’d like to see evidence to support it”
As in not just where the bodies are buried, we want(ala DiFi) to put our fingers in the wounds.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:56 pmNo, he’s not. We’re “of an age” and it was not quite in full-swing, but already well established.
Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:57 pmComment by Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:57 pm
Hmmm, I thought it was more a 80s/90s educational fad. I was educated in the 70s/80s and I guess I am fortunate that my school district had never heard of this movement, or that my teachers were way too misanthropic to have signed on to it.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:59 pmJVW,
You didn’t grow up in Detroit then.
Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:01 pm😉
If you think the website is bad, just wait until you experience the health care.
http://connecticut.onpolitix.com/news/277539/
Welcome to the Wonderful World of They Have To Sell You Insurance Regardless of Prexisting Conditions, MoFos.
I loved the single comment.
SherriJane leads off with:
Based upon the letters they’re sending out, I’d say Mr. Goldstein knows exactly how his business is being run.
SherriJane then proceeds to demonstrate that she has no idea how that business is being run.
Which as far as I can see qualifies SherriJane to be Preezy.
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:03 pm105. Einstein said, to the effect, that of comprehensive answers, the most simple are best.
Here I doubt that principle can decide between gross pervading incompetence and that which follows from not having to give a damn and which tolerates the worst possible outcome as icing on the cake.
But would not gross incompetence imply some randomness in final outcome? Wouldn’t good intentions totally luck out even once?
QED, we have a winner, incompetences conspiring together to the detriment of those served.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:06 pmYou didn’t grow up in Detroit then.
Ah, so is this how we explain Monica Conyers and Kwame Kilpatrick? Not to mention Marshall Mathers and Kid Rock.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:08 pmIsn’t that “Occam’s Razor” restated?
Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:09 pmNobody actually grows up in Detroit.
If you understand that, everything becomes clear.
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:10 pmFTFY!
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:11 pm116. Probably, but definitively distinct from Hanlon’s Razor.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:12 pmSteve57,
You do grow up if you move out of your very liberal parents house at 16. Just sayin’
Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:12 pmStashiu3, everybody grows up when they move out of their parents’ house at 16. Or 18 for that matter.
Can’t be having any more of that. So stay on your parents policy until you’re 26!
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:19 pmA black box;
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/17/us-usa-healthcare-technology-insight-idUSBRE99G05Q20131017
[Went in and fixed your link narciso — Stashiu]
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:21 pmSo stay on your parents policy until you’re 26!
This way, as Aunt Nancy Pelosi reminded us, you get to pursue your artistic passions when you graduate from college. Because, you know, the main thing wrong with America is that not enough 20-somethings are taking the time to bum around for a few years before entering the workforce.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:22 pmWhat do you mean, “entering the workforce,” JVW.
As far as I can see, if you spend 4 years going $200k into debt getting a degree in Medieval French Lit or LGBT Frisbee you’re not planning to enter something called a “Work. Force.”
Maybe an Occupy camp so you can b**** about how the world doesn’t appreciate your unique skillz, and wonder who should be forced to pay for it all.
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:30 pmThe words “cut spending” nor “limit entitlements” nor “eliminate wasteful programs and departments” did not cross The One’s lips at any time in the last 3 weeks. $17 trillion in debt plus $88 trillion in unfunded laibilities is still not being addressed at all. We are doomed.
Bugg (ddac6e) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:31 pmAs long as I don’t have to put up with that fiberglass crap, life remains possible.
http://www.deucesteel.com/
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:35 pmThanks, Stashiu,
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:40 pmThe words “cut spending” nor “limit entitlements” nor “eliminate wasteful programs and departments” did not cross The One’s lips at any time in the last 3 weeks.
To be fair, Bugg, Dear Leader gave his standard boilerplate about being “willing to look at long-range entitlement spending” in return for GOP capitulation.
And this is what is so annoying about Obama. Everyone — from the various commissions he has appointed to anyone with any familiarity with the Federal Budget — knows that the long-term promises made via Social Security and Medicare are not sustainable. A serious leader would be taking the lead in addressing these issues, but Obama makes them a bargaining chip to extract concessions from the other side, exactly the same kind of irresponsible gamesmanship (“holding a gun to our head”) that he accuses the GOP of.
And it is eminently logical that the sooner we begin the address this issue of unfunded liabilities the better chance we have of doing something about them. I think it was Erskine Bowles (a Clintonite, no less) who described the impending entitlement crisis as “the slowest unfolding train wreck in history.” But Obama seems determined to put off all of the hard choices until well after he leaves office, lest he actually have to take an unpopular position that would ding his approval ratings. Of course, his party has kind of maneuvered themselves into a corner through years to accusing the GOP of wanting to “gut” Social Security and Medicare, so it’s kind of hard for them to now find the political courage to trim benefits.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:42 pmObamacare website violates open source software license.
Its clowns all the way down.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:51 pmAnd don’t forget, while the NSA furloughed 75% of its people as nonessential, the Obamacare software developers kept working.
Priorities.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 1:58 pmSPQR – apparently those programmers were “borrowing” some code?
JD (3994cd) — 10/17/2013 @ 2:04 pmJD, which they could do …. if they followed the license requirements. Its not rocket science. Gee, I have even lectured on this topic …
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 2:12 pmOops. Didn’t see that you linked that already.
JD (3994cd) — 10/17/2013 @ 2:12 pmthere is nothing so simple and straight forward that the Obanal regime can’t make a mess of it.
and there is nothing they do that is so stupid or wrong that their supporters won’t rush to the defense of our SCOAMF.
this was a great country…
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 10/17/2013 @ 2:16 pmAs of yesterday, I read that no one had managed to sign up on the health care website in the State of Alaska, but 5 intrepid souls in the State of Iowa managed to do it.
rochf (f3fbb0) — 10/17/2013 @ 2:18 pmthere is nothing so simple and straight forward that the Obanal regime can’t make a mess of it.
and there is nothing they do that is so stupid or wrong that their supporters won’t rush to the defense of our SCOAMF.
I think this is the most concise summation of Barack Obama that I have ever seen. If I ever write a history textbook, this is how my chapter on the era from 2009-2017 is going to begin.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 2:20 pmComment by aphrael (f55c78) — 10/17/2013 @ 12:35 pm
If a poor design was not a desired output, why would they hire CGI who are the designers of the Canadian Long-Gun Registry, that had a Billion-Dollar (Cdn) overrun and never worked, finally being junked by the new Conservative government?
askeptic (b8ab92) — 10/17/2013 @ 2:24 pmFYI, the population of Canada as a whole is less than CA and probably has about the same number of gun-owners, yet their website design could not handle a volume of perhaps (at most) 20MM people.
aphrael, perhaps this will answer your question?
askeptic (b8ab92) — 10/17/2013 @ 2:43 pmaphrael @99, the fact is the Obamacare exchange is primarily a data mining expedition.
Who thinks of requiring people to give out personal information first, to set up an account, before showing you your options? And only your options. Heaven forbid you see how badly other people are getting screwed.
I’ll tell you who. Alynskyite’s whose prime directive is to form up the mailing list.
Remember those IRS agents who sicced themselves on the TEA Party and when caught tried to diminish what they had done as bad customer service? They’re now in charge of your health care.
And they won’t let go.
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/17/2013 @ 2:56 pmWhat do you mean keep? The whole shutdown stunt put us more into debt to the tune of an extra 25 billion according to S&P
http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/economy/328937-sap-shutdown-cost-economy-at-least-24-billion
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:03 pmAw shoot, that weird kid is back.
nk (dbc370) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:03 pmhot cheetos n takis
hot cheetos n takis
rollin with my foodstamps got my hot cheetos n takis!
happyfeet (4bf7c2) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:04 pmIt’s an odd quirk, if you want to see your options, why would you design it this way;
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/10/answers-remain-scarce-weeks-into-obamacare-website-launch/#comments
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:05 pmMr. narcisio you have to make good choices and you have to work hard and with a lil good luck and a prayer or two you can keep yourself off the obamacares and make yo mama proud
happyfeet (4bf7c2) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:08 pmTlaloc,
In case you missed it.
Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:11 pmAw shoot, that weird kid is back.
I don’t reckon he ever answered Stashiu3’s salient question from 11:58 am today. Want to have a crack at it, Tlaloc.
(By the way, the S&P article says that the shutdown cost the economy $24 billion, not the government. In other words, we did not go $24 billion deeper into debt. Why I am not surprised that you conflate the economy with the government?
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:15 pmStash and I had the same idea. Your move, Tlaloc.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:15 pm$25B more in debt?
That’s not even a rounding error.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:24 pmThat’s not the first time we’ve caught Tlaloc unable to read his own links.
It won’t be the last.
Gee, why is that reminding me of another past troll … ?
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:33 pmMoveon.org is showing its contempt for constitutional government – a petition to arrest Boehner for sedition.
So the love that Moveon.org shows for fascists has a root cause … their love of fascism itself.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:36 pm62.Elephant Stone – I think the problem with the Obamacare website is pretty serious, and it suggests that the contractor responsible should be ineligible for future contracts, and it might even suggest that we need to reconsider how government software contracts are handled.
Why make a scapegoat of the contractor? It seems likely the real culprits were the political higher ups who think of everything in terms of spin. Kevin Drum :
With Obamacare, however, they weren’t allowed to slip the schedule. They had to ship on October 1. Period. And so now I find myself thinking back to some of those difficult projects. What would have happened if instead of slipping the schedule, I had been forced to ship on the original release date? Answer: the software flatly wouldn’t have worked. It wouldn’t just have been bad, it would have been an existential catastrophe. And it would have taken many months to fix, not many weeks.
So they started with an unrealistic politically driven schedule and refused to acknowledge any problems. Rather convenient to blame the ensuing disaster on the contractor.
James B. Shearer (92aef1) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:42 pmConsidering that its financier, George Soros, sold Hungarian Jews to the Nazis for transportation to the such vacation spots as Dachau and Auschwitz as a kid ….
nk (dbc370) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:43 pmStashiu;
You ever read Dune? The Bene Tleilaxu had a philosophy that a victim always had to be allowed a way out if they cud find it. Maybe that’s it. But mostly it’s a combination of sincerely trying to help and amusement and a deep fascination with how people can be so unswerving in their beliefs despite such weight of evidence to the contrary.
This is one of those times that will be debated for decades if not centuries in terms of how the psycho-social forces developed and interacted. I get to be a witness to it.
You are reversing cause and effect. Go back and look at my initial posts, they are perfectly congenial. The response has been almst universally hostile and often needlessly personal. In any given thread you can find the usual suspects making up things about me personally while I stick to debating their views and misstatements of fact. I don’t call them children, unhygenic, unemployed, etc. that’s al from the other side.
Now is some of my rhetoric harsh? Sure, and for two reasons:
1) I generally believe that if people choose to engage in a rude manner than they are implicitly inviting the same in return, and I’m perfectly comfortable dishing it out.
2) Sometimes people need to be smacked in the face with how wrong they are before it will sink in. Of course your point about the reverse, that sometime slapping them in the face causes them to ignore their error is also true, but generally if the civility is already ruined then that type will already be shut down.
And again I would direct you to fairly evaluate my posts in light of the posts made to me. I think any fair reading shows I’m not the one seeking to anger.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:57 pmNaturally you’ve felt the same about all the thousands of conservatives calling dems traitors and for obama to be arrested…
Oh, right.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:58 pmStashiu,
I had a perfectly cordial discussion with JVW in this thread:
https://patterico.com/2013/09/13/friday-teaser-mccain-considering-retirement/
The only thing preventing civil discourse is the incivil approach of the common posters here.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:03 pmOnly a moron would moan about an alleged $25B more in debt while ignoring the $17T in infrastructural debt, let alone over $75T in unfunded liabilities.
Colonel Haiku (58bb61) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:09 pm25 billion here, 25 billion there and pretty oon you’re talking about real money.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:11 pmthis TaFailalot never really honestly answers any question asked of him.
Colonel Haiku (58bb61) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:11 pmHe can mince if he wants to… Safety Mince.
Colonel Haiku (58bb61) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:13 pmoon over iami…
Colonel Haiku (58bb61) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:14 pmWell it’s a pattern, Joffe’s reverie about Yeltsin, the black capitol outlet on the OFA site, it’s called coordination,
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:14 pmHe does not come in good faith.
Colonel Haiku (58bb61) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:15 pmPoint of order. @99 I think he is actually referring to Hanlon’s razor (stupidity vs malice); Occam’s razor is what someone else said: go with the simplest solution/explanation.
See… I pay reasonable attention much of the time.
gramps (46c9f9) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:20 pmStashiu,
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:22 pmnotice Colonel Haiku’s posts? Do they not exactly comport with what I said?
What, me worry;
http://twitchy.com/2013/10/17/sharyl-attkisson-investigates-grenade-walking-operation-into-mexico/
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:25 pmnarciso, and we’ve still no answers to exactly who in the Obama administration authorized the hacking of Atkisson’s computers.
Because all that Obama “transparency” disappeared long ago.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:27 pmBarack Obama took the UNPRECEDENTED action of closing Nat’l Parks and memorials. Bill Clinton didnt do that in the mid-90s, nor did any other president who had to deal with a shutdown. Now we have an NPS official tell Congress that he knows someone in the White House ordered him to close the parks, but can’t remember who it was.
Mr Good Faith says it’s the Republicans’ shutdown, it’s their fault the parks and memorials were closed.
Colonel Haiku (404b97) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:29 pmWell then, Toni Morrison said something back then;
http://weaselzippers.us/2013/10/17/hollywood-moonbat-gop-racism-shutdown-our-government-because-president-is-black-every-tea-party-member-should-be-horsewhipped/
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:32 pmYou know I don’t think they did this right;
http://washingtonexaminer.com/troubled-obamacare-website-wasnt-tested-until-a-week-before-launch/article/2537381
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:36 pmMr. Feets – I prefer the Shriners with their little cars and stuff, plus its all for a good cause.
Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:41 am
Shriners are FreeMasons. 32nd degree Masons they are!
Yoda (ee1de0) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:38 pmand they will be mocked
Colonel Haiku (8a1837) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:41 pmThese lefties sure hate constitutional government. The way that they yearn for one-man leadership is quite nauseating.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:41 pmActually it’s your side that’s constantly b*tchin about the “nine autocrats in black robes”.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:44 pmWhy if they did such a bang up job;
http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/design-firm-removes-all-reference-to-its-work-on-obamacare-f
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:46 pmAnd back in the day
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/07/17/obamacare_s_going_to_be_great.html
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:47 pmb*tching… moaning… mincing
Colonel Haiku (8a1837) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:51 pmwith each othah
I had a perfectly cordial discussion with JVW in this thread:
https://patterico.com/2013/09/13/friday-teaser-mccain-considering-retirement/
Tlaloc, I think the major problem with the way you comport yourself on this blog is that you appear to be wholly unwilling to even consider that the policy solutions you advocate might not work. Where Obama-style liberalism has failed, you seem to think, is that it hasn’t gone far enough to the left: ObamaCare ought to have been single-payer, California is in bad straits because the tiny GOP minority blocked “sensible” tax increases over the years, businesses need more regulation in order to force them to follow policies amenable to progressives, etc. It seems that rather than give thoughtful consideration to our criticism of your positions, you just move on to the next Media Matters soundbite or otherwise change the subject to the obstinance of the GOP or the hard-headedness of us right-wing commenters on this blog. You also make the lazy generalizations typical of how Obama liberals argue these days: all criticism of Obama is racist, any trepidation about immigration is nativist, a distrust of government bureaucracy is sedition, and a feeling that we aren’t getting services commensurate with the taxes we pay is just abject greed.
No doubt that many of us have short fuses and also can get stuck with our preconceived notions, but through the years we have had several interesting and thoughtful liberals comment here, and we have had vigorous but respectful debates with them. It just seems that you are entirely uninterested in pursuing this outcome, so you just troll here and post incendiary comments in order to get a rise out of us. Just know that we have had lots of your type on this blog over the last decade, and we’ll be here long after you grow tired and start mucking around in someone else’s barn.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:52 pmno ‘earthshattering kaboom’
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/10/18/the_electoral_aftermath_of_the_shutdown.html
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:55 pmActually it’s your side that’s constantly b*tchin about the “nine autocrats in black robes”.
This is a good example of what I wrote above. Yes, we have complained a great deal about the USSC, but then again, your side has bitched about them too. Does Citizens United ring a bell? What did your side have to say when the Court set down its ruling on the Voting Rights Act this past summer? Did Presidents Reagan or Bush actually take the time to criticize the justices during a State of the Union address, while they were forced to set there without rebuttal?
It’s a great deal of projecting that you do, Tlaloc.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:56 pmComment by narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:55 pm
Oh, don’t be so sure, narciso. When “generic Republican” runs on the ballot next year (instead of, you know, and actual flesh-and-blood person who can’t be as easily pigeonholed), he is going to get his clock creamed according to all the liberal pollsters.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 4:59 pmTlaloc,
I’ve read the Dune series several times, including the sometimes disappointing novels that followed the original set (which is where the Bene Tleilaxu philosophy was first mentioned IIRC). I find that rather cynical and condescending attitude at odds with your stated goal of, in part, “sincerely trying to help”.
I will say I don’t like the personal attacks and agree you rarely respond in kind compared to how many you receive. My notions of decorum do not rule however. I do think you frequently bait others into attacking so that you can claim the moral high ground, ignoring that they’re responding to partisan rhetoric that is often misleading, mischaracterized, or blatantly false. I would rather folks respond with counter-arguments (which many have and you frequently ignore) or silence. There are several posters here I ignore completely, not out of any good character of mine, but for my own physical and mental well-being. My blood pressure is much better as a result.
All that said, I think the most frustrating thing about your comments is a complete inability to understand conservative thought. You automatically assume conservatives are wrong on every issue and this tone pervades your commenting “voice” which invites rejection. I would (again) rather see commenters here either kick your ass in argument or ignore you. I’ve seen them do both better with others who are labeled trolls. In your case, this seems rare.
Overall, if I was grading a debate, I would say you’ve been cleaning the clocks of people who should be doing better. Not that I agree with you on more than a minuscule portion of your comments, but when someone believes you’re wrong or dishonest and responds with nothing but ad hominem, you win. Even if you are wrong or dishonest. I’m not pointing at anyone in particular, so don’t think you can use this to bait others. I think if you were truly interested in teaching/learning (the two are inextricably entwined), you would argue in good faith, expect that others were doing the same, and meet halfway at least in some things. You don’t. I won’t be bothering you again but appreciate the response. Thank you.
Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:01 pmOh, and the psychiatric term for trying to point at Haiku in an effort to get me to denounce him is called “splitting” and is something I don’t respond well to. I like and respect him even when we disagree (more frequently than you would probably expect). That’s what developing a reputation gets you. You don’t have that yet… at least not one that generates respect. Stick around, tone things down a bit, and show that you really are commenting in good faith. You’d be surprised what you can learn/teach.
I’m betting you won’t though. Sad to say, that’s where the smart money should go.
Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:08 pmStash is right about the unfortunate tendency to resort to ad hominem. It’s hard to have the forebearance of a DRJ, but that shouldn’t keep us from trying. Tlaloc’s condescending attitude, his unwillingness to engage with our arguments other than to blithely dismiss them, and his tendency to promote political posturing rather than discussing ideas is of course frustrating, but creating derisive variations of his blog name and making personal insinuations is beneath us. I am as guilty as anyone else on this, and I am going to resolve to try harder.
But like Stash, I don’t think I am going to bother debating Tlaloc any longer. I’ve had my say, and life is too short.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:12 pmOr maybe I simply find the counter arguments unpersuasive.
Okay just stop there. There’s nothing liberal about Obama. If you ant to convince me of your argument it has to first acknowledge objective reality.
I take the position because it is logical and fits the facts. Why shouldn’t I? If you want to argue it you need to either attack the logic or the facts, but the vast majority of arguments presented to me are simply nonsense that is a function of the echo chamber. I can prove to you the echo chamber exists and poisons the thought processes of the right with ease, once again the example of 2012 is enough to establish it beyond any doubt. The right swims in misinformation because it insists on only trusting sources that tell them what they want to hear.
Okay so you think I rely on trite misinformation and I think the same of you. But I have objective proof that you suffer from this Do you have any such proof of your contention?
I’m pretty sure I never said anything even close to the last three statements. As for there being a strong racism streak to the opposition of Obama, well when the official party communications of the GOP send out emails with Obama in witchdoctor get up you might see how that kind of sends a message…
Again objective fact that that happened. Do you have an explanation besides racism for such behavior? An explanation how Obama giving you your own policy on a silver platter evoked such vicious attacks by the right that have nothing to do with his race?
I’m all ears. But it has to be based on fact, not fictions.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:13 pmThat’s a horrible false equivalence JVW. Yes the left bitches about individual decisions they disagree with. That’s not at all the same as the constant attacks on the very legitimacy of the judiciary you find everywhere by the right. It’s not at all uncommon to find open calls for the justices to be lynched or at the very least the entire court system abolished. You can find thousands of examples every year on the popular righy websites. It’s become common place.
Not. the. same.
[released from moderation — Stashiu]
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:16 pm[JVW] Tlaloc, I think the major problem with the way you comport yourself on this blog is that you appear to be wholly unwilling to even consider that the policy solutions you advocate might not work.
[Tlaloc] Or maybe I simply find the counter arguments unpersuasive.
QED. Best wishes, Tlaloc.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:19 pmThe first three are really good, he rest are best forgotten, particularly his son’s books.
People are complicated.
If I miss an argument feel free to bring it up again, the fact that I went back to your question and answered at length I think shows I am open to doing so.
I think I understand it fine. If I really did not understand it why are the arguments s predictable, and so easy to counter?
Conservativism is not complicated (neither is liberalism). Complicated philosophies are not popular as too few actually think.
Meeting halfway for the purpose of meeting halfway is not a virtue. If conservativism is 90% wrong, and I think it is, then it would be a lie for me to pretend otherwise. I’m willing to be honest with you, and whether you believe it or not that is a form of respect. It’d be easy to lie and get along with you and thereby not challenge you or help you to grow.
I’d encourage you to call me on anything I say you think is wrong.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:26 pmSo considering the scope of the program, to say it’s rollout has been substandard is to be charitable, now Obama has been about eliminating opposition from
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:26 pmAlice Palmer to Hull and Ryan, to what they attempted against Sarah, and succeeded in some measure with Romney,
Speaking of data snafus;
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/10/nsa-leaker-edward-snowden-says-he-didnt-take-any-secret-files-to-russia/#comments
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:31 pmI made a point, CH’s behavior was supporting evidence. It’s wrong to point that out? I don’t require you to denounce him, though if you denounce me for combativeness seems like some consistency would be nice.
How can I show good faith? Typically I include numerous links to outside info. Universally these are disregarded while I am expected to swallow arguments that not only usually have no backing but are trivial to disprove. Many here do not believe a right wing echo chamber exists despite the clear compelling evidence.
So how under such circumstancesdo I show good faith? Effectively the only way to be taken at face value is to simply repeat what other conservatives are saying. Otherwise you are “spewing media matters talking points” (a website I don’t frequent).
Do you see a way to establish bonafides without become part of the echo chamber?
Fundamentally I think being hung up on reputation is a big part of the problem. Think about what that means, it means at some level you are more concerned with the whether the source of information is part of the clique rather than it’s veracity.
Shouldn’t the veracity be the foremost concern?
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:34 pm== An explanation how Obama giving you your own policy on a silver platter evoked such vicious attacks by the right that have nothing to do with his race?==
Obamacare was not, and was never “Obama giving you your own” policy on a silver platter”. Your writing that ridiculous statement a billion times doesn’t make it any more true. There’s no reason for you to keep saying it except to be a jerk. Also apparently you have a higher tolerance for presidents “giving” people stuff than most of us do.
elissa (3961c8) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:35 pmSo if I don’t immediately buy into your argument that means I’m closed to all arguments? Neat little trap there since there’s no way out except to surrender every point of every argument.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:36 pmExcept it’s objectively true elissa, that’s exactly why you think I’m a jerk for saying it. It’s an uncomfortable truth for you, otherwise it wouldn’t bother you.
Obamacare is directly based on the republican alternative to hillarycare and Romneycare. It is the republican health care reform policy, or was right up unto the second Obama suggested it.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:39 pmFunny, we would have thought that the orifice that you’re all of was located in a different spot.
askeptic (2bb434) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:39 pmelissa, I don’t have to tell you that the new meme is that ObamaCare was wholly a GOP (via Romney and the Heritage Foundation) idea. That way, when it fails miserably, the low information voter will be none the wiser and the cynical academic/media elite won’t care about the truth either way.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:40 pmNancy Pelosi called Harry Reid into her office one day and said, “Harry, I have a plan to win back Middle America in 2014!”
“Great Nancy, but how?” asked Harry.
“We’ll get some cheesy clothes and shoes, like most Middle Class Americans wear, then stop at the pound and pick up a Labrador retriever. Then, we’ll go to a nice old country bar in Montana and show them how much admiration and respect we have for the hard working people living there.”
So they did, and found just the place they were looking for in Bozeman , Montana. With the dog in tow, they walked inside and stepped up to the bar.
The Bartender took a step back and said, “Hey! Aren’t you Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi?”
“Yes we are!” said Nancy, “And what a lovely town you have here. We were passing through and Harry suggested we stop and take in some local color.”
They ordered a round of bourbon for the whole bar, and started chatting up a storm with anyone who would listen.
A few minutes later, a grizzled old rancher came in, walked up to the Labrador, lifted up its tail, looked underneath, shrugged his shoulders and walked out. A few moments later, in came another old rancher. He walked up to the dog, lifted up its tail, looked underneath, scratched his head and left the bar.
For the next hour, another dozen ranchers came in, lifted the dog’s tail, and left shaking their heads.
Finally, Nancy asked, “Why did all those old ranchers come in and look under the dog’s tail? Is it some sort of custom?”
“Lord no,” said the bartender. “Someone’s out there running around town, claiming there’s a Labrador Retriever in here with two assholes!”
Colonel Haiku (4447e2) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:42 pmThat’s not a new meme, it was floated four years ago,
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:42 pmSeeing as how Heritage/Romney/Obama care is an unmitigated disaster, everyone associated with it, who advocates it, and voted to institute and uphold it, should be Terminated With Extreme Prejudice.
askeptic (2bb434) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:43 pmFairness, for the Children.
Obamacare is directly based on the republican alternative to hillarycare and Romneycare. It is the republican health care reform policy, or was right up unto the second Obama suggested it.
Objective lie. Aggressive lie.
I have a theory. If someone refers to themself as a god of sperm, mockery and scorn is entirely justified.
JD (4596fe) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:45 pmGod of Wankery
Colonel Haiku (4447e2) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:48 pmhe makes it rain in buckets
like a twelve year old
That’s not a new meme, it was floated four years ago,
Yeah, what I meant is that it is going to be aggressively resurrected once ObamaCare’s totality of suckage is recognized.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:49 pmThis site has been up for more than 10 years. I assume it would be too much to ask, out of hundreds of thousands of comments, to find one conservative advocating for ObamaCare prior to its passage. Or the individual mandate. Or it’s intrusion on individual freedom. Or its job killing components. Or its redistributive aspects. Or any of it. At least 10 years worth of comments. Go.
JD (4596fe) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:49 pmHell, JD, we weren’t exactly overjoyed with RomneyCare, particularly as it got expanded in the MA legislature beyond what Romney proposed.
askeptic (2bb434) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:52 pmFirst, again, I agree with Stashiu3 about many if not all things he said.
Second Tlaloc said (as he has before):
Okay just stop there. There’s nothing liberal about Obama. If you [w]ant to convince me of your argument it has to first acknowledge objective reality.
There is no reasonable discussion to be had, in my opinion, with someone who is so condescending in his attitude while making claims that defy description.
And that is not an attack on the person, that is an evaluation of the reasoning offered.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:53 pmThen this:
How about during that 10% you think they might not be wrong, that you claimed anyway? I never said anything about meeting halfway just for the purpose of meeting halfway. No ad hominem, no baiting, just an observation made in good faith that you immediately proved correct. See? You don’t even treat me as commenting in good faith. What’s your excuse for that?
You’re not as good at this as you think. I invite you to challenge your own assumptions. I will leave it at that and do my best to not engage you further. I’m not interested in teaching you anything and I’ve learned all I care to. Be well.
Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:54 pmYou know what is awesome about being a progressive, JD? When Hillary runs in 2016 she won’t be saddled with the lousiness of ObamaCare because it is vastly different from HillaryCare of 1994. And at the same time the statist, coercive aspects of HillaryCare (e.g., it’s illegal to privately contract with a physician outside the network) will be forgiven, as Hillary will just tell us that her thinking has “evolved.” As we have come to expect from the Clintons and their enablers, she’ll be able to have it all ways on the issue.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 5:55 pmOf course that’s the meme, JVW. I see it on Daily Kos all the time and on the other left sites I regularly go to. Still doesn’t make it an honest statement or “objectively true” either.
Of course Tlaloc and his ilk never can come up with a single reasonable excuse why, if it was so great, that the Dems had to bribe even their own members to pass it and got no R votes at all. Sure seems like in the face of all that Republican hostility and intransigence and “racism”, the Dems would have just passed some wonderful healthcare thing they liked and which would have pleased their own base while they owned Congress. We already know the obvious answer why they could not, of course. But maybe Tlaloc can think on it and come to understand why that was.
elissa (3961c8) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:00 pmActually, they called Alliances then, Exchanges now, the public was equally opposed then, but they went Whizzo chocolate,
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:02 pm“…think on it…”
askeptic (2bb434) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:03 pmYou mean wait for an appropriate “talking point” to show up in his in-box.
I was beaten up by a woman! I was in the elevator today when a busty lady got in.
I was staring at her boobs, when she asked, “would you please press One?”
So I did. I don’t remember much afterwards….
Recovery time: 4 to 6 weeks.
Colonel Haiku (4447e2) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:04 pm184
I take the position because it is logical and fits the facts …
So you think California is in bad straits? In what ways?
James B. Shearer (92aef1) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:06 pmWhat I don’t understand is how an “objectively” (he really likes that word… I refer to Inigo Montoya as an explanation) GOP plan failed to get a single GOP vote. As elissa says, saying it over and over does not make it true.
Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:06 pmPictures, please!…..not you, her.
askeptic (2bb434) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:07 pm184
… There’s nothing liberal about Obama …
Hard to see why he has so many liberal supporters if that is the case. What do you think Obama is, a socialist?
James B. Shearer (92aef1) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:11 pmI was staring at her boobs, when she asked, “would you please press One?”
So I did. I don’t remember much afterwards….
Recovery time: 4 to 6 weeks.
Comment by Colonel Haiku (4447e2) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:04 pm
Pressed two, you should have! Might be expecting a little Haiku in 9 months instead of recovery time! If pay attention to only one, upset will the other one be!
Yoda (ee1de0) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:11 pm“Obamacare is directly based on the republican alternative to hillarycare and Romneycare. It is the republican health care reform policy, or was right up unto the second Obama suggested it.”
It really doesn’t make any difference who gets the blame for a stupid idea.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:14 pmHow did what I say imply that I thought you weren’t commenting in good faith? You said I should meet people half way. I countered by saying I don’t think the people I’m debating are 1/2 right so why should I say otherwise. I took what you said at face value. Again just because I disagree doesn’t mean I didn’t give it consideration. It only means I disagreed.
I’ve spent years doing so. If you have challenges that I haven’t considered then I’ll listen but I in no way guarantee that I’ll agree. If you choose to disengage then that’s of course your choice, although you might consider that if you leave engaging liberals to the more…excitable… members of the community doesn’t that over time lead to changes in ow the community works and thinks and reacts? Will the changes be good overall?
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:15 pmApologies if this has been linked to before, but I found this interview with Mitch McConnell pretty fascinating. Yeah, most of us here wish he were a little more robust as a conservative leader, but I think he makes a very strong argument for the GOP getting the best deal they could have, and an implicit (ok, maybe explicit) rebuke of the Cruz/Lee strategy.
The point that sticks out for me is something I commented upon earlier this afternoon: McConnell says that Obama has always linked his support of entitlement reform to the GOP being willing to raise taxes another $1 trillion. He correctly describes this as Obama “holding entitlement reform hostage.” I swear that ought to become a mantra of the GOP as we go to Round 2 of the negotiations. McConnell also agrees with Rush Limbaugh that preventing the Dems from replacing the sequester is a pretty decent accomplishment. After all these fiascos I don’t have a whole lot of faith that the GOP will accomplish much, but I must say I have a better understanding of where McConnell is coming from than I did before reading the interview.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:16 pmI will offer an example of how I think many people who consider themselves democrats, or on the left (of those on the “right”, whatever that means), progressive, or liberal, or whatever term you want to use for people who tend to agree with President Obama, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and others, including Tlaloc by his own recent comments.
A few years ago then Senator Obama and other Democrats were vehement in their objection to accumulating more debt and raising the debt ceiling.
The fact that they have a very different public stand today is justified as a tool in political battle or is simply ignored, or at least not thought important.
Now it is certainly true that Republicans, perhaps even conservative Republicans, also sometimes make campaign promises that they don’t keep;
but to many conservatives, I think, such an occasion is a big deal, and conservative voters show their displeasure by luke-warm voter enthusiasm and turn out.
Repubs will talk about “holding their nose while they vote” as a way of showing disapproval for a candidate, but their willingness to vote any way for the “lesser of two evils”.
I’ve never head Dems talk that way. Their candidate is their candidate, above reproach or criticism.
Now, I think most Repubs realize that sometimes people actually do change their position on something, rather than just “play politics”, but they want to hear and understand the reason why someone changed their mind and see if it is convincing or not.
For example, many were less than enthusiastic about Romney because of his history of increased government involvement in health care in Mass and his previous pro-choice position. Conservatives were not quick to say “he’s our candidate, whatever he said in the past isn’t an issue”.
Conservatism, as I believe and understand it, is based on principles which then need to be put into practice. The Dems/libs/left seem to have as their first principle “do whatever you have to in order to win”.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:16 pmOkay let’s break this down one part at a time.
Do you agree with the following:
1) the individual mandate was designed by Heritage
2) Obamacare is heavily based on Romneycare
3) the left, as in liberals, had no interest in obamacare but instead wanted single payer or at the minimum a government option
I call these facts objective because… well they are. The evidence is right there in black and white barring we descend into conspiracy theories of the “were really brains in jars” scale.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:18 pmObama’s not interested in ‘entitlement reform’ he wants what he thinks is the revenue from extra taxation, but that’s likely to be counterintuitive,
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:19 pmI really don’t see how that sells well publicly. Consider that seniors are the group the GOP does best with. For all the bluster during the 2000s SS is still a third rail. Heck in 2012 Romney tried to pose as the candidate to protect medicare.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:23 pmAgree MD, especially the far-left.
Btw, do you ever recall me taking responsibility for how this community works, thinks, and reacts? I remember moderating to make sure the blog ran smoothly and the rules were followed. Can’t recall the other though. Seems like it would be a bit arrogant and presumptive… it not being my blog and all.
Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:24 pmSure they do. Remember the PUMAs in 2008?
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:24 pmWhat I don’t understand is how an “objectively” (he really likes that word… I refer to Inigo Montoya as an explanation) GOP plan failed to get a single GOP vote. As elissa says, saying it over and over does not make it true.
Comment by Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:06 pm
If he believes his statement, I guess he would say that it is because Repubs are just so hateful and spiteful (and racist?) that they don’t want to see Dems get any credit for a good idea.
If so, we would consider it projection, since most of “us” do not think that way, as far as I can tell, but the Dems have shown their eagerness to find reasons to turn on Repub efforts.
But those are significant “ifs”.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:24 pmWhy didn’t the first Obama congress pass single payer, Tlaloc?
elissa (3961c8) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:25 pmDo you think you have no effect? Of course you do. Every poster does and mods much more so.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:25 pmHeck, Tlaloc, I agree with your three premises. Can we now agree Obamacare is a stupid idea?
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:27 pmBecause Obama didn’t want it. He never tired to push for it. Never even tried to puch for a government option. Instead he kludged together the republican plan and forced it on his own party.
Go back and read lefty blogs from that period. Disgusted is a dramatic understatement.
Why didn’t Obama want it? Well fundamentally he’s a big business centrist. He’s very cozy with wall street and had no desire to fight insurance companies, he preferred to buy them off by pursuing a path they’d be okay with.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:28 pmAbsolutely. It’s a terrible idea. Trying to fix the health care of the US without getting rid of the insurance companies is a fool’s errand.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:29 pmI like the cut of your jib, Haiku. Join me on
theDark SideReddit and we’ll troll the college students for a change.On topic, we’re screwed. Next up is “immigration reform” with whole-hearted fat cat GOP support, and another eleven million mouths and other body parts added to Obamacare and entitlements. Expect your taxes to go up, and your standard of living dowwwwn. I wouldn’t care, if I did not have an eleven year old daughter who’ll be paying for Tlaloc’s children and their children.
nk (dbc370) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:30 pm==Instead he kludged together the republican plan and forced it on his own party.==
OK I’m laughing.
elissa (3961c8) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:30 pmBtw, do you ever recall me taking responsibility for how this community works, thinks, and reacts? I remember moderating to make sure the blog ran smoothly and the rules were followed. Can’t recall the other though. Seems like it would be a bit arrogant and presumptive… it not being my blog and all.
Comment by Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:24 pm
I agree with the latter, and I can see you “feeling responsible” and “making the effort to be responsible in your moderating duties”, but I do not remember anything that could be reasonably construed as “taking credit” or “your guarantee” on the content and running of the site.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:31 pmSure they do. Remember the PUMAs in 2008?.
That was pretty much an argument over who would best run the government into the ground, not so much a philosophical difference. Hillary and the President want the same thing, they just differ on who is better at making it happen faster. The President won.
He’s been very successful.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:31 pmWell notice that with Obama all of a sudden the GOP felt compelled to filibuster constantly. Suddenly he debt limits became fights rather than routine. Suddenly we had congressman screaming “you lie” during a SOTU. I can keeo going but hopefully the point is made.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:31 pmFor some reason the right went ape-^%$# the second obama was elected.
Is he really this ignorant, Obama outlined his strategy 10 years ago, Schakowsky, Hacker, Barney Frank, have all given up the pretense.
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:32 pmRemember the PUMAs in 2008?
Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:24 pm
Actually I don’t. I don’t remember PUMAs since Walt Frazier promoted his “Clydes” long, long ago.
Now, if “PUMAs” had something to do with the people who really wanted Hillary, thinking she had paid her dues and it was her time and all, I can remember that.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:34 pmStill laughing. Can. Barely. Type.
elissa (3961c8) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:35 pmI’m pretty sure we were ape during the Clinton presidency.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:35 pmBananas actually, but that would have been true with Kerry or Dean,
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:36 pmBy the way, I denounce myself as racist.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:36 pmShall we compare the left during Presidents Reagan/GWB with the right during Presidents Clinton/Obama? I’m pretty confident the preponderance of evidence would be readily apparent.
Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:40 pmIt was pretty ridiculous but things have gone to a whole new level with obama.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:41 pmNo, not really. There was the impeachment thing.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:42 pmWhy didn’t the first Obama congress pass single payer, Tlaloc?
Comment by elissa (3961c8) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:25 pm
Now that was just rubbing-his-nose-in-it mean, elissa!
Colonel Haiku (4447e2) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:43 pmIt’s cool when you filibuster small and petty things, like the confirmation of the ambassador to the U.N., but when you filibuster on matters of principle like whether an ill-conceived and reckless health care reform plan should be foisted upon the American people even though it is substantially different from the promises that were made about it, well, then, you are just being a nuisance.
It’s cool to stand against raising the debt limit when you are in the minority party and you lack the ability to block it, but not when — um — wait a minute —
Oh yeah: It’s cool to stand against raising the debt limit when you are a Democrat, but irresponsible when you are a Republican.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:43 pmhttp://twitchy.com/2013/10/17/fired-up-palin-hints-shell-support-primaries-for-graham-mcconnell-other-chicken-hearted-rinos/
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:43 pm#242… what Stashiu said, no doubt about it.
Colonel Haiku (4447e2) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:45 pmBy all means. Did the left ever interrupt a SOTU by Bush? Nope.
The left sent out lots of pics of bush compared to a chimpanzee. These pics never came from official party organs, they were from associated elements. The right sent out pics of obama photoshopped into witchdoctor garb. From an official party. The right wins again.
Can you find any examples of Lefty national politicians or governors talking about open insurrection against the US and president bush? I can find dozens of comments from righties saying just that about Obama. Start with Governor Brewer’s “2nd amendment remedies” and work forward. Again the right wins the ape-%$#@ cup.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:45 pmThe thing Tlaloc doesn’t understand that the right has been slow to use Alinsky tactics, but since we’ve decided to do so, life’s a bitch.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:46 pmThere’s plenty on the right who want to try for impeachment against Obama, one of the main things holding them back is how badly it turned out against clinton (why that reasoning didn’t stop them causing a shutdown escape me).
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:47 pmOkay, so you’re admitting that you are collectively treating obama differently than you treated previous dem presidents. That’s a step in the right direction.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:48 pmClinton had a few redeeming qualities. On the other hand, Obama has no discernible leadership qualities. He’s a man of little accomplishment, who sincerely believes his own press and bullsh*t and who is as thin-skinned as one can be without being subject to massive infection.
Colonel Haiku (4447e2) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:50 pmEven though he often says insane things, like today, we understand his m.o, we’ve seen what he taught at Chicago, who were his influences at Harvard, what he
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:53 pmexpounded upon on NPR and other places,
Sure, there are plenty of current Congressman and Senators who were radical leftists in their youth. They continue to consort with the same.
Are they better at their public face. Yep: Hence. Sen. Saturday Night Live and President Bill Ayers who?
Have you forgotten Rep. Grayson or whichever stupid group did the pushing grandma over the cliff? How about Cynthia McKinney?
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:53 pmWe aren’t talking abut using the filibuster as a matter of principle. We’re talking about using it constantly, for everything. For all intents and purposes the senate is now a body that requires 60 votes for a measure to pass. That’s never been true before. It really is unprecedented and it really is an abuse.
Paul’s filibuster of drones and Cruz’s filibuster of the house CR aren’t the problem. In fact I give both credit for actually conducting talking filibusters. It’s the use of filibusters on every routine matter that are the problem.
As you well know the dems postured on the debt ceiling but made no attempt to actually prevent it. They cast symbolic votes. Notice the ebt ceiling under bush never had problems passing the dem controlled senate. They could have held it hostage to stop the iraq war or close guantanamo or whatever. They didn’t. Because it’s inapropriate.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:53 pmObambiCare was the result of a soundbite moment ginned up by Robert Gibbs and the usual Soviet-era useful foolishness.
Colonel Haiku (4447e2) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:54 pmSuddenly he debt limits became fights rather than routine. Suddenly we had congressman screaming “you lie” during a SOTU. I can keeo going but hopefully the point is made.
For some reason the right went ape-^%$# the second obama was elected.
Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:31 pm
Actually, your point is not made.
Many Conservatives were disappointed in Bush because of his spending, and the debt limits have become battles because of the increasing severity of the situation, and because the Dems have refused to pass a budget, leaving few options for opponents to work with.
And Obama did lie. And he also used such settings to make his own political attacks on the Supreme Court and others.
Many on the Right, including our host here, did not go ape s*** when Obama was elected, they hoped that maybe he would govern more moderately than expected of one who is a colleague of a domestic terrorist, belonged to a black nationalist church, had been a New Party member, and an acolyte of Alinsky who taught his material.
Other than those factors, along with his lack of experience, and his record of being “present” in the Illinois state senate (except when the vote was to kill live-born babies who survived abortion),
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:55 pmwe had every reason to look forward to his presidency.
Clinton had a few redeeming qualities.
Colonel, let’s not let our distaste for Obama suddenly give us a revisionist view of Bill Clinton. The only possible “redeeming quality” I can think of that Clinton may have possessed is that he was so cynical that he would adopt relatively conservative positions if Stanley Greenberg told him they polled well. And it’s sort of hard to see that as a redeeming quality anyway.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:57 pmNope. I’m admitting that you guys know how to do things better at character assassination, so we’re trying to spread the cheer around. Obama just happens to be there to enjoy the result.
Are you saying he can’t take it? Why? Because he’s black?
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:57 pmNo it wasn’t Colonel, that is a excuse they sold to Politico.
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:57 pmAh, so posturing is better than actually doing. Good to know. I posture that the President is doing well at posturing.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:59 pmColonel, let’s not let our distaste for Obama suddenly give us a revisionist view of Bill Clinton.
There’s his embrace of some conservative ideas and you can’t forget the man loves teh womens… short ones, tall ones, fat ones, brown ones… skinny ones…
Colonel Haiku (4447e2) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:01 pmGrayson’s an a$$, no doubt. That said he lost his seat. Unfortunately he recently won it back. Of course the man he won it from was easiy as big an a$$ so it kind of evens out.
The grandma commercial was hardball politics but not really out of line. It was no willie horton ad.
Mickinney’s… just dumb. The fact that she and William Jeffers (?) (cash in his freezer guy) could get re-elected is an indictment of gerrymandering.
I can give you five examples for each one of those though.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:04 pmSure you can and so can I and we can go around and around forever. Relying on the dumb excuse cuts both ways.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:05 pmMeanwhile, Iran is still—Iran. Not that the president seems to be very interested or concerned.
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/10/17/senators-looking-to-keep-applying-sanctions-pressure-to-iran/
elissa (3961c8) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:06 pmTlaloc’s vacuous “unprecedented” nonsense is yet more evidence that he’s 16 years old and thinks that history began in 2006.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:06 pmOkay, so you’re admitting that you are collectively treating obama differently than you treated previous dem presidents. That’s a step in the right direction.
Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 6:48 pm
We never before (at least since Roosevelt) had a Dem president who wanted to fundamentally change the US, making it a second or third rate player on the international scene as well as an economically weaker country that fostered increased government dependence.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:07 pmI mean one of the things Bill Clinton took credit for was working with Repubs to decrease welfare dependency,
something which President Obama has reversed.
And you really think that excuses such behavior. Look if you think the president lied during the SOTU you call a press conference and ream him for it. You do not demean the whole country by acting like a petulant child and throw a tantrum in the capital during the big speech. That’s simply asinine.
Congratulations you got exactly what you wanted. So why are you still treating him so badly?
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:07 pmImagine if Alan Graysons made up a good 30% of the dem party rather than 1 guy. That’s the state of the right right now.
The right really has gone rabid over a guy who is a centrist slightly to the right of Clinton (himself a centrist somehow you guys paint as leftist).
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:10 pm“Obamacare is directly based on the republican alternative to hillarycare and Romneycare. It is the republican health care reform policy, or was right up unto the second Obama suggested it.”
Tlaloc – Can you provide a link to a republican or conservative source document to prove this assertion you are so fond of making? I have already pointed out where you are wrong, but you conveniently ignore it. Please bless us with one of your numerous links.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:11 pmPretty funny, aren’t you the one who keeps demanding that I (re-)answer) your question about the unprecedented (usually all caps and bold to show you really mean it) closure of the federal parks?
Sorry if I’m confusing you with someone else.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:12 pmLess surmises more hard facts
http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/20037
Obama was oppossd to welfare reform, didn’t think reparations went far enough in redistribution of wealth, all ideas he cribbed from Tribe, Wright,
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:13 pmDe Unger, et al
Impress us, Tlaloc. If you could be king or even president of the U.S.for a year what would you do? We can see you’re a petty scold and a whiner but from your comments nobody really can tell what you’d do if you actually had “the power”. Why don’t you tell us?
elissa (3961c8) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:15 pmCome on MD, you seem like one of he more ratinal posters here but this is just ridiculous. Welfare dependency has gone up because we had the worst economic event in 90 years. The whole “Obama wants to make the US a third rate power” doesn’t even rise to the level of laughable. He could order the navy to decommission every aircraft carrier group in a second. Nobody could countermand him as sole control of how the armed forces run is his purview.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:16 pmYou know, Tlaloc, your whole problem is you think we are dumb.
I don’t treat the President badly because I think he is a bad person. I criticize him because I think his, and the left’s policies, are bad for the country.
I don’t think they are bad for one particular group or another. They are bad for everyone. That is my opinion.
That doesn’t make me a bad person nor a Nazi nor a racist nor a neo-Confederate nor a bomb-thrower nor a terrorist nor a participant in sedition (go to moveon.org). It means I can have an opinion.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:17 pmReally? Okay.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:20 pm== Nobody could countermand him as sole control of how the armed forces run is his purview.==
Oh.
elissa (3961c8) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:20 pmActually, I think people should point out lies in SOTU’s whether the speaker is a Repub or Dem.
It should be a bigger issue if the president tried to get away with a lie than that somebody pointed it out.
If the president is accused of a lie, which itself was a lie, then that’s a different issue.
Congratulations you got exactly what you wanted. So why are you still treating him so badly?
Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:07 pm
So, because he is using Alinsky methods and not being as obvious about being a leftist as he could be he is actually governing as a moderate?
You may sincerely think that. If you do, there is not much point for further discussion.
If you don’t sincerely think that, then there is also not much point for further discussion.
It is possible you really believe what you say.
“The Sword Cuts Both Ways” the saying goes, sometimes one can take the same facts and interpret them very differently.
You think President Obama not pushing for a single payer health system shows he is not a leftist;
the rest of us think that his not pushing a single payer health system overtly is simply “posturing” as he knows the country would have opposed it at the time and that comments by Barney Frank and others as well as things that President Obama has said in the past before he was a presidential candidate show that a single payer system is what he wants, and that we think ObamaCare is destined to fail to serve as a stepping stone for a single payer system.
Good night.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:22 pmYes I agree. Thinking that the president’s policies are bad doesn’t make someone a bad person.
On the other hand needing to cast the president as something he isn’t, insisting he’s anti-american or actually a kenyan or a secret muslim or a terrorist enabler or any of a thousand things the right has called the president is the last 30 seconds yeah that says something about the character of the people saying it.
I have no idea if you are one of those people. what I know is a whole h*ll of a lot of your fellows are. And very few on the right are calling them on it.
That’s poisonous.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:24 pmObama has no discernible leadership qualities. He’s a man of little accomplishment, who sincerely believes his own press and bullsh*t and who is as thin-skinned as one can be without being subject to massive infection. He is also a Stuttering Clusterf*** Of A Miserable Failure that Putin wouldn’t wipe his dick on, but most other foreign leaders do.
If history is properly written, iBambi will go down as the forty-third and one-half President.
nk (dbc370) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:25 pmHe’s so secret that he’s enacted nothing but moderate policies, that’s just how liberal he is…or something.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:26 pmdaleyrocks–He thinks an ancient position paper by an independent think tank speaks for the Republican party and is its pure policy development arm which then rube goldberg style led us to Obamacare with no R votes. Nothing at all wrong with that logic!
elissa (3961c8) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:27 pmThank you for reminding me of yet another term the right uses.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:27 pmOh, we shouldn’t say that the bastard son of a Mau Mau and a hippie rounndheels is the bastard son of a Mau Mau and a hippie roundheels?
nk (dbc370) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:27 pmYeah, Tlaloc, Obama is an object of ridicule … because he is an object of ridicule. He engenders no respect. He is a black eye (sic) to America.
nk (dbc370) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:30 pmYeah heritage is just some think tank, they have no power in he right that’s totally why demint gave up being a senator to go head it up.
And it’s not like the policy was promoted as the right’s answer to Hillarycare, why that would make official party policy!
And it’s not like it was the basis of the big accomplishment of the man most recently chosen to be the right’s nominee for president.
Yeah nothing to see here. Really. Don’t look. For god’s sake don’t think about these facts!
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:30 pmSaying the President had advanced knowledge of a terrorist attack on American soil that killed 3000+ people, and let it happen so that he could enrich his friends in the military-industrical complex: legitimate political discourse, if a bit aggressive.
Saying the President wants to transform America into a European-style social welfare state because he has been immersed in an intellectual and political culture in which America is considered to be the source of the world’s ills: beyond the pale and assuredly racist.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:30 pmWell that’s all the time I have tonight. Goodnight.
Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:31 pmCome on MD, you seem like one of he more ratinal posters here but this is just ridiculous. Welfare dependency has gone up because we had the worst economic event in 90 years. The whole “Obama wants to make the US a third rate power” doesn’t even rise to the level of laughable. He could order the navy to decommission every aircraft carrier group in a second. Nobody could countermand him as sole control of how the armed forces run is his purview.
Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:16 pm
Being condescending and feigned flattery at the same time is a bit of an overreach.
But you do certainly keep moving the discussion to new things instead of continuing on the old.
Prior to “the worst economic event in 90 years” the economy under Bush was much better than it has been under Obama. We would love to have some Bush-era unemployment numbers.
And that economic event was created in large measure to Dem-preferred mortgage policies, etc., which Attorney Obama made use of back in the early 1990’s.
A major criticism of the war effort under Bush (of course, it may have just been “posturing”) was that our military was too small to handle too conflicts at once.
So, what is the answer to this under President Obama? Shrink the military further; go back on defensive missile systems promised to allies; stop short production of the F-22.
All fine for someone who wants to “lead from behind”.
The President’s #1 responsibility is the protection of the US, even he could not get away with undermining that responsibility of decommissioning every carrier group. Besides, that is not the Alinsky way. Just quietly let the military shrink, get old, be poorly maintained.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:35 pmIf you have aspirations to serve as hall monitor/informer while you’re at school I’ll be willing to provide a recommendation for you, Tlaloc. I think you also show promise to be a future condo board president. Busybodies with opinions always make the best ones.
elissa (3961c8) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:37 pmTlaloc has to go to bed and I say whatever.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:40 pmNice to spend some time with many of you, but I’m sure there are other ways that would have been more rewarding.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:40 pmGood night.
Those are not facts, you moron. They are your misrepresentations. Just like your earlier lie when you claimed that it was a “myth” that the IRS targeted TEA Party groups when the IRS admitted that they had.
You just brazenly fabricate, label your falsehoods as “facts” in bold and think that proves your superiority.
And then whine like a little four year old when caught at it.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:41 pmOn the other hand needing to cast the president as something he isn’t, insisting he’s anti-american or actually a kenyan or a secret muslim or a terrorist enabler
Who here does that? You are such a freakin liar.
Again, I asked above. This site has been here since 2001. Find some conservatives here promoting an individual mandate, or any of he nonsense you attribute to us. You ignored that, because you can’t. And it gives lie to your pathetic lie.
JD (4596fe) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:41 pmIndeed, JD, we were very vocal here about ridiculing the Hillary Clinton sourced “Kenyan born” story.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:43 pmI think you also show promise to be a future condo board president. Busybodies with opinions always make the best ones.
Every time I hear someone kind of fatuously proclaim that the idiots in Washington should just get together and work to solve all of our problems, just like any patriotic group of Americans would (don’t you know), I just want to invite them to come to one of the meetings of our Homeowners’ Association. For all the caterwauling about slowdowns and shutdowns and debt ceilings, etc., they could see some of my HOA board members suing each other, and the property manager calling the police on one of the residents during a heated board meeting.
The point is that democracy outside of Washington is pretty much just as dysfunctional as democracy inside of Washington, especially when slightly weird people are entrusted with important responsibilities.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:45 pmObama deserves the same respect he shows to those who don’t share his opinions or don’t believe in his self-annointed wonderful awesomeness… Which is none.
Colonel Haiku (58bb61) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:45 pmI never would have thought about it had it not been for Obama’s publicist saying so;
but I guess that was just posturing because at the time it sounded more exotic than being born in Hawaii.
Deception that is 99% true is often more effective than more blatant falsehood.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:48 pmIt’s been that way ever since the Alinksy patron angel Lucifer twisted God’s command “just a little bit”.
MD in Philly, when the trolls think to use the birther stuff to ridicule their political opponents, it is indeed important to remember that Obama’s own literary agent stated that Obama was Kenyan born.
Obama is responsible for all the rumors. We have a f’ing troll for a President.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:51 pmWell he did embellish quite a bit, in the bio she wrote for the flyleaf, son of a Kenyan finance minister, they though ‘it was too good to check’
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:53 pmI must say, ala’ The Last Battle by CS Lewis, the idea of mocking a charge instead of defending against it is a very good strategy, if one needed to have one.
But we do have to stop meeting like this. Too many productive hours have been consumed.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:56 pmWell he did embellish quite a bit
Embellish is too harsh a word, it might suggest dishonesty.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 7:59 pmPosturing is the preferred term, I believe.
Mock and scorn. There is no other alternative when a party to a discussion is so divorced from reality.
JD (4596fe) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:03 pmThe new metric is that any view taken by any leftist think tank in opposition to any conservative idea is the position of the Left for the next 20 years, at least.
JD (4596fe) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:06 pmThis 21st century American storyline, had it been proposed as fiction, would prolly be turned down for being just tooooo preposterous. I do hope you’re still around, MD.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-newyork-fetus-20131017,0,4411718.storypubl
elissa (3961c8) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:06 pmThe claim that Obama didn’t know what was in the promotional materials for his own book was hardly the least convincing of Obama’s many lies.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:11 pmWell elissa, with the last check of the night I saw your post. The link didn’t work for me but I managed to find the article.
There are just too many things that should be preposterous that aren’t these days (cue Inigo Montoya…), like being punished with a baby.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:19 pmsorry about the link MD. Here’s a different link about the shoplifters with the dead baby in the shopping bag.
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/10/17/nypd-possible-fetus-found-in-teens-bag-inside-nyc-victorias-secret/
elissa (3961c8) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:23 pmI saw the same story, earlier. Why does the Devil even bother with us? Just leave us to our own devices and we’ll fill Hell to capacity.
nk (dbc370) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:26 pmChicago is such a fun town to visit. It is a shame it produced Obama.
JD (4596fe) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:32 pmTlaloc – Thank you for the attempt and link. From your link itself, an except from the amicus brief filed by Heritage in last year’s Supreme Court case:
As I explained in another thread and is bolstered by your link, the purpose of the Heritage proposal was to be ready to have a seat at the table should the American people decide they wanted something like universal healthcare. Unlike Hillarycare or Obamacare, however, the Heritage idea was based on conservative principles of free markets, consumer choice and not expanding government bureaucracy.
Hillarycare was pulled from the Senate floor because it proved so unpopular and helped contribute to Republicans retaking the House of Representatives in 1994. Obamacare was also unpopular when it was passed and you know what happened to the House in 2010. Voters certainly did not consider either plan a Republican plan in spite of deliberate attempts by Democrats and the media(BIRM) to spin them that way.
Here is a more contemporaneous account from Heritage:
http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/why-conservatives-need-a-national-health-plan
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:38 pmto clarify, elissa, though the link didn’t work I did find the article through the Tribune home page.
Hence, my comment that it is preposterous, or should be, but there is a lot of that going on.
Thanks for the effort to bring it to my attention.
daley- the Gunga Din award for the thread goes to you, sir, for tracking that down and clarifying the issue for us.
Good night, for real.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:49 pmHe does seem to 404 alot, it’s as if the interwebs are new to him?
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:50 pmelissa,
I haven’t seen the recent comments so you may have discussed this elsewhere, but this is marginally related to your shopping bag link. The New York Post reports Adrian Peterson may have as many as 7 out-of-wedlock children.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:53 pmChicago is such a fun town to visit. It is a shame it produced Obama.
Produced Al Capone too, just for some perspective.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:53 pmOne thing the Republicans managed was to successfully fight a rearguard action on the sequester cuts. Dem’s failed to remove those as was their goal going in. House Republicans failed to highlight that in public.
“Rush Limbaugh was making this point too. No one can plausibly claim that the GOP “won” this standoff, but there is a silver lining. As you may recall, in the wake of Obama’s reelection the Democrats were discussing not only replacing he sequester, but also passing a Stimulus Phase II which would have dumped another quarter trillion or so on their pet causes.”
JVW – On the road for most of the day on the most scenic and romantic highway in America – Route 65 between Illinois and Indy, so I’m catching up.
I did hear Rush explain to his audience this point that I was patiently trying to explain to Tlaloc which is illustrative of the difference between a budget and a continuing resolution. Budgets allow annual escalator clauses in spending provided for in the BCA of 1974 to take effect, while continuing resolutions do not. By choosing not to complete regular order budgeting processes, Democrats had trapped themselves into fiscal 2009 levels of discretionary spending and then after Obama’s last hissy fit over budgeting and the failure to reach any agreement via Super Committee, the Sequestration took baseline discretionary spending levels back to fiscal 2008 levels.
Today marked the first time in four years Senate Democrats agreed to sit down with their House counterparts in the absence of third parties to negotiate a budget.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:56 pmI blame global warming.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:56 pmhttp://dailycaller.com/2013/10/17/the-daily-caller-investigates-what-are-the-numbers-on-the-hilariously-sad-failure-of-obamacare/
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:59 pmYou find that drive romantic?!?!
JD (4596fe) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:00 pm217- He was fighting an unarmed man.
askeptic (2bb434) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:04 pmThanks DRJ–nobody else seemed too interested in the Adrian Peterson story so I kind of quit following it myself after I found out he had two 2-year olds by different mothers and that he had never even seen or interacted with the murdered abused baby until it was on life support.
elissa (3961c8) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:06 pmThe Obamacare exchanges are so bad that HHS people are in a state of panic.
http://nationalreview.com/corner/361577/assessing-exchanges-yuval-levin
The above was a long passage, and I apologize. But it is key. It is saying that Obamacare exchanges being so bad could do more than just hinder the general public’s access to the exchange, they could create an adverse selection problem that collapses the entire insurance scheme.
Its clowns all the way down.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:06 pmI think that must have been sarcasm, JD. I’ve been on that stretch a few times myself, but it has been a few years. Can’t imagine it has improved that much.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:06 pmRemember, the GOP proposed passing a CR bill with a one year delay in the individual mandate but they were “terrorists” and “hostage takers” …
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:09 pmThanks DRJ–nobody else seemed too interested in the Adrian Peterson story so I kind of quit following it myself after I found out he had two 2-year olds by different mothers and that he had never even seen or interacted with the murdered abused baby until it was on life support.
elissa & DRJ – I am all for privacy, but I am an NFL owner considering offering a big contract to a star player, I think I would want to know if he is having unprotected sex with a whole chorus line of women strewn about the country. If nothing else, I am worried that a STD will hamper his career.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:11 pmPrior to “the worst economic event in 90 years” the economy under Bush was much better than it has been under Obama. We would love to have some Bush-era unemployment numbers.
I recall opinion polls back around 2005 that indicated increasingly larger percentages of Americans were becoming pessimistic about the nation’s economy and the future of this society. At that time, the ratcheting up of gasoline prices seemed to be the main, or only, real fly in the ointment, or the only thing that I could point to as triggering the more downbeat attitudes among the public. After all, basic indexes like the unemployment rate were still fairly decent, and we had yet to reach the moment where the effects of jobs being shipped to China were more easily apparent.
I thought the gloomy reactions of the public at that time were a case of people pining away for some type of ideal, if not perfect, world. I also remember wondering if such folks would soon grow into their pessimism, meaning they’d eventually end up in a setting where their pessimism was fully justified.
Americans, welcome to the promised land!
Mark (58ea35) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:22 pmI guess it’s good Peterson seems willing and able to pay child support for his children but, at this rate of reproduction, I worry about his financial solvency. I’m not sure any NFL running back’s career lasts for 18 years of child support, especially since Peterson still seems to be adding children.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:22 pmThey don’t know who, but they do know why’
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/16/park-service-director-blames-threat-terrorism-clos/?page=all#pagebreak
narciso (3fec35) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:24 pmMark, the pessimism was in large part because of MSM drumbeat about how bad the economy was during the Bush administration … and now, with an order of magnitude worse economic numbers, the MSM is a cheerleader for Obama.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:26 pm“You find that drive romantic?!?!”
JD – A veritable highway of love!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:27 pmThe above was a long passage, and I apologize. But it is key.
Actually, SPQR, I found that passage quite riveting and appreciate that it was posted here by you. The debacle of Obamacare is both more fascinating and also alarming (or pathetic) when it is described from the standpoint of those folks on the front line, whether they’re the payer or the payee.
Mark (58ea35) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:28 pmThat Edsel is based on the Model T!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:30 pmBetamax is based on VHS.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:31 pm8 Track tapes are based on cassette tapes.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:34 pmESPN doesn’t seem concerned about how Adrian Peterson cares for his 5 to 7 out-of-wedlock children. But ESPN is concerned how San Diego Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers takes care of his wife and 7 children.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:34 pmDRJ, you beat me to the comparison.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:36 pmThe healthy young man who sees an ad for his state exchange during a baseball game and loads up the site to get coverage—the dream consumer so essential to the design of the exchange system—will not keep trying 25 times over a week if the site is not working. The person with high health costs and no insurance will.
Back in 2007 or early 2008 during a Democrat Party Presidential debate, in rejecting the concept of a mandate which he later endorsed, Barack Obama expressed the opinion that people didn’t buy insurance only because they couldn’t afford it. Back then his rationale was to just subsidize everyone’s policy and watch as the whole uninsured population rushed to sign up. At some point after January 2009 his people broke the news to him that a lot of people don’t sign up for insurance because (1) they don’t expect to need it, (2) they don’t want to spend money if they aren’t going to be using the product, and (3) they are too damn lazy and unmotivated to put in the effort to research a plan and choose it. Nothing about ObamaCare addresses these issues: Obama says you have to buy insurance because it is your obligation, but he has made it as difficult and expensive as he possibly could. Heck of a job, Barry.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:37 pmMark, I think its important to realize just how huge a catastrophe the Democrats are in the midst of creating.
Strangely, like the author of the NR piece, this is worse than I imagined.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:37 pmJVW, its been admitted that Obama began touting healthcare reform as a last minute off the cuff remark to a health care audience. Obama never had any idea how health care or health care insurance worked. He never spent any time on health care insurance policy in any of his feather-bed positions. He had no idea how to implement any of his half-baked, bumper sticker campaign slogans.
Clowns all the way down.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:39 pmAdrian Peterson suffers from the soft bigotry of low expectations
it’s cause he’s African-American
ESPN be racist like that
I do not subscribe to cable, so this is not my fault
happyfeet (8ce051) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:45 pmESPN doesn’t seem concerned about how Adrian Peterson cares for his 5 to 7 out-of-wedlock children. But ESPN is concerned how San Diego Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers takes care of his wife and 7 children.
Amazing that we live in an age where it is totally uncool to suggest that maybe AP shouldn’t be out there knocking up a bunch of random women (strippers and cocktail waitresses in some cases, it was reported), but we can all have a good laugh at that hick Rivers and his huge Catholic brood.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:49 pmAnd Rivers’s brood are all with the same woman who happens to be married to him, I should have added.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:52 pmWhat do you mean keep? The whole shutdown stunt put us more into debt to the tune of an extra 25 billion according to S&P.
Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/17/2013 @ 3:03 pm
— The federal government went an additional $25B into debt in the space of two weeks? Gad, ur dum!
Icy (5f7cca) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:53 pmcocktail waitresses bring you tasty beverages
but when they go home they have hopes and dreams
they have kids they’d take a bullet for
they want to be love and be loved
they want someone to tell them they look pretty
that they’re a good mom
that they count too just as much as that junior leaguer hoo-ha what drank 6 salty dogs tonight and didn’t leave a goddamn penny
they want someone to cook for and someone what will run to the store for orange juice when she’s runnin fever
someone what’ll run out at 9 pm after a late dinner and gas up her car so she doesn’t have to worry about it on a cold dearborn morning
she wants a theme song
she wants to own a nice piece of crystal
she wants to go to the symphony and she’d be happy with a piece of pie and a cup of coffee after
she’s a cocktail waitress
god love her
happyfeet (8ce051) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:58 pmwant to love and be loved I mean sorry I should have done more better proofreading
happyfeet (8ce051) — 10/17/2013 @ 9:59 pmWow, happyfeet, if you come up with a chorus and set it to music, you have a pretty outstanding country & western song there. Is Tammy Wynette still recording?
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:00 pmthat’s a very good question
happyfeet (8ce051) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:04 pmI’m pretty sure that Tammy Wynette is not still recording … you just don’t get studio musicians to show up graveside any more.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:07 pmnobody tell me anything and so my life is an endless series of awkward moments
happyfeet (8ce051) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:10 pmSir Flailsalot,
Ibama, to the left of the leaders in Red China he is! After all, loosening up regs and promoting entrepreneurs they are! Claiming Ibama is a moderate, centrist, slightly right of center, or even slightly left of center, crazy it is!
A word of advice to one who posits such a thing is freely offered, it is! From all parks and wooded areas, stay away you must! Deadly peril from squirrels you will face!
Yoda (ee1de0) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:14 pmI’m pretty sure that Tammy Wynette is not still recording … you just don’t get studio musicians to show up graveside any more.
How do you explain Elvis Presley or 2PAC?
But then it’s settled: the song goes to Loretta Lynn.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:16 pmi heart her more than my irish setter
happyfeet (8ce051) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:19 pmWe know that ObamaCare is more about control than a thoughtful way to improve the delivery of health care in this country.
I heard somewhere that the length of the regs. related to ObamaCare makes the bill itself look like Cliff’s Notes.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:20 pmI am heartened to learn that the paychecks which were unprioritized for more than 800,000 nonessential workers during the government slowdown will now be reprioritized once more.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:25 pm,” Mr. daleyrocks said, his voiced etched with acid sarcasm.
“If they only knew how so NOT heartened I am,” he thought to himself.
happyfeet (8ce051) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:43 pmThat pretty much sums it up.
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:53 pmand the award for superfluous trenchancy goes to…
OUR VERY OWN MR. SPQR!
congratulations mister gosh that statue sure look heavy
but you make it look light how you hold it just so
You have verve is what it’s called I read about it in the Vanity Fair at the dentist’s when that one molar went rotten on me
happyfeet (8ce051) — 10/17/2013 @ 10:59 pm““If they only knew how so NOT heartened I am,” he thought to himself.”
Mr. Feets – Oh, but you misunderstand. I was told it was impossible for the government to reprioritize its payment and here I am thinking to myself self what about these nonessential government employees what had payments prioritized away what are now going to have them prioritized back all over again isn’t that a perfect example that proves what people were saying was impossible is in fact just a bunch horse manure is really what I meant by that comment that I’m sure you did not intentionally misunderstand at all if it was not clear.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:03 pmI wonder if it’s 90 or 95% of Vanity Fair’s subscription base that goes to the waiting rooms of doctors and dentists all over this fine land. The rest of it going to extremely fey men who live in Manhattan and have small dogs that they spoil outrageously.
JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:05 pmBut happyfeet, you described my life to a “T”…
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:15 pmYou forgot the 14 subscribers in Provincetown.
askeptic (2bb434) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:16 pmbut tonight
tonight we eat sausages!
happyfeet (8ce051) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:24 pmYou got sausage?
SPQR (768505) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:29 pmIt’s happyfeet. S’prolly not real sausage.
Stashiu3 (e7ebd8) — 10/17/2013 @ 11:46 pmSome of those Kossacks commenting at the link seem to think that the exchanges are offering better policies than Kaiser or BC/BS for “peanuts.” Go to the exchanges, they say. If that’s really the case, this would be all over the MSM wires. Who’s the nut here?
KathyP (d908b2) — 10/18/2013 @ 4:25 amYOU can’t have what *WE* consider “substandard insurance” any more.
YOU *must* now buy the insurance WE dictate for you to have.
Liberty, freedom, whut dat?
Just one more decision being made for you by unelected bureaucrats, and YOU shall have nothing to say about it in any way.
“Be grateful for our benevolence, you worthless peon!!”
Yeeeeah… Please, massuh, can I have some more?
Smock Puppet, Gadfy, Racist-Sexist Thug, and Bon Vivant All In One Package (fc9290) — 10/18/2013 @ 2:25 pmThe National Park Service director told Congress on Wednesday that he had to shut down the open-air memorials on the Mall during the government shutdown because of terrorism, saying that closing them was the only way to protect them “in a post-9/11 world.”
Director Jonathan B. Jarvis also said his agency had received intelligence showing an increased threat of danger since the shutdown began – though he would not tell two House committees what those warnings were.
I’m sure we all know that many battles from the Revolutionary and Civil Wars were fought on national parkland. The Park Service obviously fears that that could happen again.
Neo (d1c681) — 10/18/2013 @ 5:40 pm312 JD “Chicago is such a fun town to visit. It is a shame it produced Obama.”
317. Comment by JVW (709bc7) — 10/17/2013 @ 8:53 pm
Produced Al Capone too, just for some perspective.
It produced neither of them. Both of them came to Chicago, for the first time, as adults.
Sammy Finkelman (86c6e0) — 10/20/2013 @ 10:12 am5. They don’t sign up, but they can still be trotted out at an Obamacare informercial held in the ose garden.
Sammy Finkelman (86c6e0) — 10/21/2013 @ 2:41 pmBy the Force, does he never shut up?
Yoda (ee1de0) — 10/21/2013 @ 8:45 pmEvidently not.
SPQR (768505) — 10/21/2013 @ 8:49 pmArgue with a fence post, he would!
Yoda (ee1de0) — 10/21/2013 @ 9:56 pmOh, thanks, Yoda, now we’ll get an exposition of the history of barbed wire …
SPQR (768505) — 10/21/2013 @ 10:11 pm