Patterico's Pontifications

10/15/2013

GOVERNMENT SLOWDOWN, DAY FIFTEEN

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:37 am



What will we demand of you before we restore nonessential government services?

Defunding ObamaCare!

Um, delay of ObamaCare?

How about this?

  • Repeal a medical device tax everybody hates anyway.
  • The President, the Congress, and the Cabinet must comply with ObamaCare. We’ll stop asking Congressional staffers to be on it too.

That is Republicans’ version of “negotiation.”

Tough as nails, huh?

RELATED PERSONAL STORY: My daughter was reading in her textbook about checks and balances last night, and came across a part describing the Legislature’s power to withhold funding for certain initiatives. She read it to me, because it sounded familiar to her . . . since she had just received a spontaneous lecture from me yesterday morning on the exact same topic.

It works only when the legislature is willing to exercise the power that it has, though.

437 Responses to “GOVERNMENT SLOWDOWN, DAY FIFTEEN”

  1. One of what will no doubt be many lectures she and her brother will receive counteracting the misinformation she gets at school and elsewhere.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  2. In this case, don’t you and school both share the same misinformation? (about the power of the purse – because it doesn’t seem to be all that it’s cracked up to be)

    Sammy Finkelman (d28b55)

  3. With apologies, it makes as much sense as this;

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=monty+python+party+political+broadcasr&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=908F29D5FBDC906A2F8E908F29D5FBDC906A2F8E

    Of course, Python helped shaped the Perfidious Albion of today, but that’s not the important thing.

    narciso (3fec35)

  4. Checks and Balances are inoperative in Obamanation. Maybe after 2016 if Hillary gets hit by a bus.

    MikeK (dc6ffe)

  5. 2. Snap! That torches what was left of my tolerance, care and regard tye, imdw, and Sammy birds of a feather.

    I hope your line ends with you, moron.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  6. Funny you should post about checks and balances, Patterico.

    I was awakened by this dream that Obama and the Democrats had dirt on Bush and the Republicans, on everything ranging from 9/11 to the GWOT to domestic policy, and the Republicans had to play along and keep mum about what Obama and the Democrats are doing, if they want Obama and the Democrats to keep mum about what Bush and the Republicans were doing. Checks and balances, like two guys each holding a gun at the other’s head. Weird dream, huh?

    nk (dbc370)

  7. The powewr of the purse has never really worked, because it’s too much like a nuclear bomb, if done inexpertly.

    The Supreme Court did rule it could be too strong when applied by the federal government against the states in the casse of Medicaid expansion.

    It can also be too strong politically.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  8. Actually, that’s not quite right, most of the things that they attacked Bush for, from the PDB brouhaha to Libby to the US Attys were at best exaggeration, at worst outright lies,

    narciso (3fec35)

  9. I’ve come to your and DRJ’s (and many other commenters’) view of Sammy also, gary. Sammy, when you’ve lost me ….

    nk (dbc370)

  10. That’s what’s ok to use, narciso. Like the extent that Benghazi and Fast Furious are allowed to be used. Like the Soviets invading Afghanistan and the CIA arming the mujahadeen. The nukes are in abeyance. Detente. Or MAD. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  11. And I was hanging in their like you for a good while, ’til maybe six months ago.

    My name calling is a challenge to engage as an honest broker. We all realize no one has a handle on the whole of truth and there are many approaches to the mountain.

    Perversion is not among them.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  12. Since the shutdown my golf game has been great. Please don’t go back.
    Love those Mac-Daddy wedges.

    mg (31009b)

  13. How is this for a strategy: the GOP says to Obama, “Fine, we’ll meet all of your demands on one conditions: When ObamaCare passed you claimed that it would reduce the deficit by $340 billion over 10 years. Now, there are indications that it will in fact add something like $500 billion to the deficit over that same period. And that’s before you allow Senators from Minnesota and Massachusetts to strip out the medical device tax. You can have a full and complete surrender from us once you produce a real plan, free of all the past ObamaCare gimmicks, that both conservative and liberal economists agree meets your original deficit reduction claims.”

    JVW (93c84b)

  14. I’m sure that Tlaloc would agree that Obama choosing to voluntarily default on the debt obligations of the U.S. government would constitute an impeachable offense.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  15. 10. On the subject of MAD.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/14/House-conservatives-readying-potential-halt-to-Senate-s-fiscal-deal-over-lost-Obamacare-focus

    Ryan is ‘confident he can extra concessions’ on ObamaneyCare from ibn Dunham? I beg to differ, young Master Ryan.

    How many weeks without SS checks, EBT cards and Medicare dataprocessing are you up for Sprout?

    The Senate in ’14 is lost because the only way to dump GOP incumbents is to go 4th party.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  16. 14. I believe to dropped your ‘/sarc off’ tag?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  17. 13. Let;s see: The only condition being that a panel of selected economists, half picked by Republicans, half picked by Democrats, a majority of both halves agree it cuts the deficit.

    What cuts the deficit? Obamacare or his total plan?

    I think Obama might not have too much trouble with the latter. It wouldn’t have to be a plan Republicans like – it could be full of tax increases.

    Obama already really has such a plan (at least when scored by the CBO)

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  18. The differences between the two parties on the overall budget can be summed up as follows:

    Obama and the Democrats want the sequester lifted.

    Republicans agree, but want Entitlement cuts.

    Obama agrees (but only the type of cuts that do not disturb normal business) but wants “closing of tax loopholes” too.

    Republicans agree (he picked tax changes Republicans tend to favor) but want compensating tax cuts too, so that “tax reform” is revenue neutral.

    Obama does not agree – he wants “tax reform” to raise at least $1 billion or something like that.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  19. The Democrats are now rejecting “House” proposals that they themselves proposed weeks ago.

    SPQR (768505)

  20. What world do you live in, Sammy?

    JD (5c1832)

  21. I don’t know, JD, but I am guessing that Sammy spraypainted some graffiti on Voyager I recently.

    SPQR (768505)

  22. Sammy, nothing that Obama has done or ever will do will improve anything of a fiscal nature. Take that to the bank.

    Colonel Haiku (58bb61)

  23. Obama, Reid and Pelosi believe that there is no limit to the spending the US can support. They literally believe there are no consequences.

    SPQR (768505)

  24. Still waiting for TaFailalot to explain Obama’s UNPRECEDENTED closure of our National Parks and memorials during the shutdown.

    Colonel Haiku (a6bc62)

  25. Right now they are negotiating about the deadlines for the continuing resolution and the debt limit, and what minor extraneous provisions they can throw in.

    If the Republicans want to be tough what they should do is insist that the enate pass and the president sign all the bills they passed taking various functions of government out of play next time.

    Maybe also the McClintock bill on prioritizing, although maybe they might want to limit how long that special authority on prioritizing lasts.

    If the Dems refuse just pass a 6-week long debt extension bill.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  26. “What cuts the deficit? Obamacare or his total plan?”

    Sammy – Surely you remember Obama’s plans, the ones which counted money we are no longer spending in Iraq and Afghanistan as future deficit reductions?

    Those went over like lead balloons with credible economists.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  27. New York State has agreed to pay just over $60,000 a day to keep the Statue of Liberty open till Thursday (it started Sunday) and similar arrangements have been made by other states for Mount Rushmore and the Grand Canyon.

    Governor Cuomo indicated he’d keep on paying past Thursday too, if necessary. Maybe renegotiate the price.

    Meanwhile he seems to be sorry he appointed his Moreland Commission to investigate corruption etc, and wants to get rid of it using the excuse of a campaign finance bill if he can get one.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  28. At this point I suspect Democrat plan to destroy debt limit by engineering default.

    SPQR (768505)

  29. 28. I’m in, as expected of a cabalista.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  30. 20. Obama is really counting on economic growth.

    But he could easily propose something that two separate bunches of economists would agree would reduce the deficit to levels he proclaimed.

    They would never be intended to beocome (or stay) law.

    I mean all plans now include things that regularly, every year, Congress repeals. every year they pass the Doc fix. Every year they reduce the alternative minimum tax.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  31. 34. Still waiting for TaFailalot to explain Obama’s UNPRECEDENTED closure of our National Parks and memorials during the shutdown.

    Comment by Colonel Haiku (a6bc62) — 10/15/2013 @ 9:30 am

    Those are your government freebies that it’s hypocritical of you small-government conservatives to bitch about when they’re gone.

    I don’t know about you, but when I pay $20 for a shrimp cocktail or nearly 40 bucks for a duck breast at some commercial enterprise that just so happens to have been appropriated into a national park I tuck into it thinking, “Mmm, free gub’mint perks.”

    Tlaloc just wants you to know at that point you’ve been transformed into a client of the welfare state.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  32. The Vitter rule, limited to elected officials, now being discussed, sounds tough but is just a pay cut.

    Nothing forces anybody to buy any of the policies on the exchange. It just kicks them off Congress’s plan. I don’t know what it does to the president and vice president.

    Not all members of Congress even now use Congress’s plan. Senator Cruz is on his wife’s plan from Goldman and Sachs.

    Meembers of Congress won’t use the exchanges – there is no reason for them to do so. The only reason for anyone to use the exchange is to find a policy, which ca be found other ways, or get a subsidy, which they won’t qualify for because of their high salaries.

    They’ll just would pay a lot of money out of pocket.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  33. 12227. New York State has agreed to pay just over $60,000 a day to keep the Statue of Liberty open till Thursday (it started Sunday) and similar arrangements have been made by other states for Mount Rushmore and the Grand Canyon.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/15/2013 @ 9:35 am

    We got the Statue of Liberty for free. Just saying, when the gub’mint shuts it down.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  34. Cornell? That’s that biggish upstate faux Ivy League school Jacobson teaches at, eh?

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/14/study-conservative-Americans

    Could it matter?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  35. Apologies for bringing out my surrender idea and then being silent. Sammy asked:

    I think Obama might not have too much trouble with the latter. It wouldn’t have to be a plan Republicans like – it could be full of tax increases.

    That is the trap that the GOP would be setting. The public already dislikes ObamaCare, now imagine the Administration saying that you will be taxed more to pay for this plan that you hate, or suddenly watch premiums for ObamaCare rise to levels that are higher than what liberal were decrying before the HCA passed. I may be missing something, but to me this would be the best way to turn the conversation back from how mean the GOP is to how awful ObamaCare is.

    JVW (93c84b)

  36. 689. The Vitter rule, limited to elected officials, now being discussed, sounds tough but is just a pay cut…

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/15/2013 @ 9:42 am

    The Vitter rule isn’t limited to elected officials. It involves staff, too.

    Theoretically it will cause “brain drain.”

    Which if true means no more 2500 page pieces of legislation.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  37. Theoretically it will cause “brain drain.”

    Gosh, all those kids from Ivy League universities and law schools as well as those who spent their whole undergraduate years volunteering for PIRG and for ACORN are going to have to try their luck in the mean ol’ private sector.

    JVW (93c84b)

  38. The Democats do want to destroy the debt limit as a barganing tool, that seems clear. They call that (and maybe also using the need for a continuing resolution as a bargaining tool) “breaking the fever.”

    Whether Obama has some plan to eliminate the debt ceiling – I don’t think you can tell. The legally safe way to do it is the trillion dollar coin. He ad the secetary of the Treasury have indicated that he has some secret plans.

    http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/08/news/economy/obama-debt-ceiling/

    President Obama acknowledged Tuesday that the White House and Treasury Department are planning for “all contingencies” if Congress doesn’t raise the debt ceiling in time.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  39. 1492. Gosh, all those kids from Ivy League universities and law schools as well as those who spent their whole undergraduate years volunteering for PIRG and for ACORN are going to have to try their luck in the mean ol’ private sector.

    Comment by JVW (93c84b) — 10/15/2013 @ 9:54 am

    Yeah. Tragic.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  40. Maybe I’m being brain lazy today, but the issues in Washington seem to be more diffuse and confusing, rather than clear.
    That can’t be good.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  41. Comment by Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/15/2013 @ 9:51 am

    The Vitter rule isn’t limited to elected officials. It involves staff, too.

    Involved. The Hot Air link says that’s been limited.

    I should correcxt myself. Cabinet members may still be in it.

    Update: The Vitter language has been narrowed, by the way:

    Jake Tapper ✔ @jaketapper House GOP introducing own bill — like Senate’s but delays medical device tax 2 years +forces POTUS/Members of Congress/Cabinet on Obamacare9:51 AM – 15 Oct 2013
    36 Retweets 7 favorites Reply

    Since the problem has mainly been with staffer compensation — most members of Congress don’t need to worry about their subsidies — this seems like a significant concession.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  42. “Gosh, all those kids from Ivy League universities and law schools as well as those who spent their whole undergraduate years volunteering for PIRG and for ACORN are going to have to try their luck in the mean ol’ private sector.”

    JVW – The private sector just cannot get enuf of those dweebs, especially in this economy!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  43. Nobody disputes the House’s perogative on revenue bills, but it doesn’t get any greater say in a final product for being the body of origin.

    As Churchill noted, “Being right is seldom enough.” In politics in the Information Age, perception doesn’t trump reality, it becomes reality. Now, sure, we can shut down the government and refuse to authorize a debt ceiling hike. We have that power and that right.

    And voters have the power and the right to punish us, and our cries of, “But we are right!” may count for naught.

    Part of being a conservative is being responsible and thinking things through, considering the likely and foreseeable consequences of a course of action before jumping in with both feet. Again, Cruz and his supporters forced us into an untenable position, an unwinnable fight, and now complain we didn’t win it for them.

    Grow the hell up.

    Estragon (19fa04)

  44. Just a little side note, since we were joking about young college graduates who go to work in Washington: a buddy of mine worked for a GOP Senator for six or seven years after he graduated from college in the early 1990s (he regrets the experience very much). He told me once that a lot of the liberal women who work for Democrats secretly yearn to marry a Republican who makes a lot of money so that they can be homemakers. He told me that he had three different right-wing male friends who married women who worked either for liberal Congresspeople or for liberal interest groups. None of the women returned to full-time work after their children were born.

    JVW (93c84b)

  45. The Democrats are trying to ignore any House bill, pre-emptively criticizing it. Harry Reid claims he is being blindsided and (any bill, really) is a blatant attack on bipartisanship.

    House Democratic leaders have been invited to the White House to be given detailed marching orders.

    The House bill also would remove discretion from the Secretary of the Treasury to manipulate the debt ceiling deadline, so that the next debt limit deadline would be the one they planned.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  46. “Part of being a conservative is being responsible and thinking things through”

    Estragon – Conversely, does the essence of being a liberal consist of not thinking things through and acting irresponsibly?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  47. ==House Democratic leaders have been invited to the White House to be given detailed marching orders.==

    By whom? Does the president know about this?

    elissa (ad9aa3)

  48. As Churchill noted, “Being right is seldom enough.” In politics in the Information Age, perception doesn’t trump reality, it becomes reality. Now, sure, we can shut down the government and refuse to authorize a debt ceiling hike. We have that power and that right.

    And voters have the power and the right to punish us, and our cries of, “But we are right!” may count for naught.

    All true, but part of being a voter and making what is supposed to be an informed decision is to be willing to live with that outcome. If you vote for Obama because you think it would be, like, totally cool to have a biracial president who likes Jay-Z, then be prepared to pay out the wazoo for healthcare so that you can subsidize the middle-aged low-wage slobs who drink and smoke too much and never get any exercise. And sorry if there are no jobs for you when you graduate from college with your $80,000 in debt, but your President decided that having the European welfare state was totally worth having European levels of youth unemployment. And about that whole national debt issue that you are going to be facing soon. . . .

    JVW (93c84b)

  49. Again, Cruz and his supporters forced us into an untenable position, an unwinnable fight, and now complain we didn’t win it for them.

    Grow the hell up.

    And you grow some balls or at least stop criticizing those who have them. Who the f*** says you should only fight when you will win? I tell my daughter that it’s cowards and bullies. So what if we don’t win? At least we kept Harry Reid from enjoying an extra glass of iced tea while reading “The Forty-First Wife, A Tell-All From Mrs. Brigham Young XLI” for an hour or two.

    nk (dbc370)

  50. Estragon, how do you know what is “unwinnable”? And why is your definition of winning so special?

    SPQR (768505)

  51. they’ve done a good job exposing the morbidly obese fascist whore what is america’s government I think

    we now know it’s not a matter of if the whore defaults but when

    and the chinesers know it too

    lil pink houses for me and you

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  52. Sammy, its been explained to you why the trillion dollar coin is not viable.

    SPQR (768505)

  53. I’m sure that Tlaloc would agree that Obama choosing to voluntarily default on the debt obligations of the U.S. government would constitute an impeachable offense.

    Possibly but since there’s no reasonable argument for obama causing the default it’s a moot point. This is all on the GOP. It was a plan by the conservatives to force the GOP to fight on this issue. It was the GOP’s choice to start taking hostages. If one gets shot that’s the GOP’s fault. 100%

    So think really carefully before you do something this asinine again, ‘kay?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  54. 48. And just wait ’til the tap gets turned on again with governors disabled.

    Why all this Slowdown/Ceiling panic and rumor has throttled equities the debt market has been flat as a pancake the last ten days.

    The minute we have a deal a downgrade will be announced(Reid just warned its coming today) we have $1 Trillion in UST pending for issue. We’re off to the races with nothing to reassure our creditors.

    Their holdings, $7 Trillion, are running thru their fingers in value.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  55. ‘While all this’ Doh!

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  56. Cheap shot at the expense of Mormon faithful, nk. Don’t think that Harry Reid is ANY more a Mormon than Nancy Pelosi is a Catholic.

    Colonel Haiku (fc8d37)

  57. Still waiting for TaFailalot to explain Obama’s UNPRECEDENTED closure of our National Parks and memorials during the shutdown.

    Colonel Haiku (fc8d37)

  58. 53. “So think really carefully before you do something this asinineTlalocinine again, ‘kay?”

    FIFY

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  59. Who the f*** says you should only fight when you will win?

    People with brains.

    Look if you want to engage in adolescent high melodrama about obamacare being the worst thing since slavery (actual quote by a congressional idiot) then fine. You can scream about this being a hill to die on.

    But you know what the end result of picking a hill to die on is? You die. Fortunately, in this case, the whole thing is a metaphor and you only die in terms of public opinion and your shot at any future electoral success.

    But even that prospect has you guys b*tching and moaning about how you shouldn’t get any blame. It’s getting real hard to square the tough guy rhetoric with the pansy a$$ reactions you guys have to taking hits you asked, nay, demanded to take.

    So, yeah, less talking about how you have balls, more manning up and taking your (well deserved) lumps like you really do.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  60. Still waiting for TaFailalot to explain Obama’s UNPRECEDENTED closure of our National Parks and memorials during the shutdown.

    I explained it to you at least twice already. I only have so much time to devote to educating conservatives. I’m afraid you’ve used up your allotment of charity.

    Catch me next month and I’ll try to get it across to you again, maybe with finger puppets.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  61. The provisions of the bills are not yet nailed down tight.

    The issues now seem to be:

    1) When does the continuing resolution expire?

    Agreement now seems general on January 15, with no change to the sequester.

    2) How far ahead (and how definitely) is the debt limit extended?

    They’re shooting for Feb 7. House – and actually maybe Senate also – Reps want to limit Sect Treasury flexibility. They want a provision to limit “emergency” powers of the Secretary of the Treasury (gimmicks used) to postpone the debt ceiling drop-dead date. It was postponed this year from May 19 to October 17. President Obama raised this issue in a telephone call with Sen Mitch McConnell yesterday.

    3) What else might be included in the bill?

    The Senate bill would postpone the “Cadillac” health care plan tax from 2018 to 2019 and require Secretary of HHS to certify they can verify income before the health wexchange can qualify anyone for a subsidized price.

    House – and actually Senate – Republicans House Reps also want a limited Vitter rule and don’t want to drop the medical device tax change.

    4) How are further negotiations on a budget to proceed?

    It seems to include appointment of a conference commiitee. I don’t know what’s supposed to happen on December 13. Previously the House had wanted a “pre-conference” to avoid Dems taking budget issues to the House floor in the form of instructions to the House conferees. These motions must be voted on.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  62. So what if we don’t win? At least we kept Harry Reid from enjoying an extra glass of iced tea while reading “The Forty-First Wife, A Tell-All From Mrs. Brigham Young XLI” for an hour or two.

    General Pyrrhus has nothing on you.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  63. 51. Post-partum abortions beginning at the 200th trimester for everyone! WhooHoo!

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  64. “So think really carefully before you do something this asinine again, ‘kay?”

    Tlaloc – Exactly. That should be Jack Lew’s response to Obama if Barcky asks him not to pay interest on our debt or pay off expiring maturities with cash sitting on his books. Don’t you agree?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  65. Tlaloc, you should educating yourself, given the astonishing ignorence you’ve shown. But I guess you think dishonesty is your strength.

    SPQR (768505)

  66. obama rammed his obamacares up america’s ass with not a single vote from Team R

    and consequently the fascist lost control of the house

    now our whore government is on the verge of a glorious default where the whole world will see her for the bloated fascist whore she is

    if that’s not a pyrrhic victory for food stamp then I’m pretty sure that just means this outcome doesn’t bother him a bit

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  67. 52. Comment by SPQR (768505) — 10/15/2013 @ 10:35 am

    Sammy, its been explained to you why the trillion dollar coin is not viable.

    No, why? It could be considered dangerous policy, but what’s the legal problem?

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  68. So many look at the “disarray” in the Republican ranks and posit that that’s a weakness or a failure of leadership. I view it very differently. I think that it proves that Republican lawmakers (whether you like them or hate them) are much more prone to representing their districts and their constituents’ wishes and values– rather than blindly adhering to a party fed dogma.

    Contrast that approach with the Democrats’ reluctant but lockstep votes on Obamacare. Compare that to House Dems apparently being summoned to the White House as we speak to “get their marching orders”. Yeah I’m thrilled to know my congtess creep is getting his marching orders from rhe White House instead of from his constituents out here in the real world.

    elissa (ad9aa3)

  69. 49, 56. I read the same book in 1983, or the bulk of its 500 pages.

    The ‘shot’ of associating alleged pederast Dingy Reid to those of LDS persuasion is not obvious to me, Colonel.

    I think its publicizing the existence of Eliza Young’s account that gives offense.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  70. Tlaloc – Exactly. That should be Jack Lew’s response to Obama if Barcky asks him not to pay interest on our debt or pay off expiring maturities with cash sitting on his books. Don’t you agree?

    it’s a moot point, lew has said he simply doesn’t have the ability to prioritize payments. It would require a complete overhaul or replacement of there current infrastructure because the current one is not designed to prioritize some payments over others, it simply processes in a FIFO kind of queue.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  71. “Sammy, its been explained to you why the trillion dollar coin is not viable.”

    SPQR – Forget it. Sammy’s a hopeless Paul Krugman fanboi. Niall Ferguson’s recent three part demolition of Krugman over at Puffington Host was hilarious!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  72. ==House Democratic leaders have been invited to the White House to be given detailed marching orders.==

    Comment by elissa (ad9aa3) — 10/15/2013 @ 10:25 am

    By whom? Does the president know about this?

    The articles didn’t say – nor did they say they were coming for marching orders – but Predient Obama definitely knows about it – he’s going to meet with them.

    http://www.politico.com/politico44/2013/10/obama-to-meet-with-house-democratic-leaders-175097.html

    President Obama plans to meet with House Democratic leaders on Tuesday afternoon, the White House said soon after attacking House Republicans’ latest proposal on the government shutdown and debt ceiling for demanding a “ransom” in “a partisan attempt to appease a small group of Tea Party Republicans.”

    House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, as well as Reps. Steny Hoyer, James Clyburn, Xavier Becerra, Joseph Crowley, Steve Israel and Chris Van Hollen are expected to attend the 3:15 p.m. session in the Oval Office. Vice President Joe Biden will also be in the meeting, his office said in a separate statement minutes after the meeting was announced.

    Still photographers will be allowed into the Oval at the start of the meeting, producing a photo op of the president, vice president and House Democrats being productive as the debt ceiling deadline approaches.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  73. Tlaloc, you should educating yourself, given the astonishing ignorence you’ve shown. But I guess you think dishonesty is your strength.

    Ignorant of right wing memes is not the same as ignorant. The reason is thosse memes are almost always flat out wrong.

    Remember when the one black republican congressman wasn’t invited to the MLK celebration? Never actually happened.

    Remember when the IRS targetted just conservatives? Never actually happened.

    Remember when Romney was going to win a blow out? You guessed it- never actually happened.

    These false bits of data get made up and injected into the the righty media where they replicate like viruses until you not only know something false but cannot even conceive that others don’t know it. It’s why I emphasize over and over that you guys need to broaden your media sources.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  74. By the way, Megan McAredle’s piece in Bloomberg has been linked all over the internet. But it’s a must read and here’s the link for anybody who’s missed it thus far. Powerful analysis. You need to read it Tlaloc. Especially you.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-14/obamacare-needs-a-drop-dead-date.html

    elissa (ad9aa3)

  75. Niall Ferguson’s recent three part demolition of Krugman over at Puffington Host was hilarious!

    It’s aso been demolished as complete hackery, but you’d have to step out of the echo chamber to know that.

    P.S. supply side economics has also be debunked thoroughly. You’re only 30 years out of date on that topic.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  76. L.A. Times says at 10:28 am (if Pacific time, 1:28 pm eastern time) that the House budget offer is crumbling because it faces conservative opposition.

    http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-house-shutdown-debt-limit-offer-20131015,0,6665826.story

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  77. “it’s a moot point, lew has said he simply doesn’t have the ability to prioritize payments.”

    Tlaloc – You are definitely an Obama voter if you believe that.

    Who do you think prioritized the payments in the first place, genius?

    Completely clueless and gullible is what you are.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  78. Who do you think prioritized the payments in the first place, genius?

    What payments got prioritized?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  79. Your poofter victory mincing is a poor substitute for a reasoned, informed response, TaFailalot.

    One more time… why do you think Obama chose to take the UNPRECEDENTED action to close the Nat’l Parks and memorials? Bill Clinton didn’t do that in the mid-90s, nor did any of his predecessors who dealt with shutdowns during their terms.

    Who did Obama think he was punishing?

    Colonel Haiku (2c2cec)

  80. Tlaloc – You are definitely an Obama voter if you believe that.

    And FYI, no I’m not. I didn’t vote for him in either election. (No, I didn’t vote for the republican either of course).

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  81. USA TODAY at 1:49 pm says it is still alive:

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/10/15/house-republicans-boehner/2986085/

    I think I saw the same article some time ago.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  82. 70. This lie presumes that the myriad redundant layers of government whir like a Swiss timepiece into which the tie rod of Default thrusts.

    You’re an artless cretin, Howard J.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  83. 80. It’s a freaking Canuck from Toronto!

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  84. Fool him once, shame on them… fool him twice, shame on him… fool him for five years, he’s TaFailalot, the Obama voter.

    Colonel Haiku (ee85e3)

  85. “What payments got prioritized?”

    Tlaloc – Payments due in a given month. Who decides what day to fund payment.

    Do you have any clue how the market for Treasury securities operates, how they are sold and redeemed? By your comments it seems you have none.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  86. at 1:07 pm CNN says House plan was in disarray

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/15/politics/shutdown-showdown/

    It has not been released publicly.

    The meeting Boehner had with his caucus at 9 am lasted two hours, instead of one hour as planned.

    He’s gettinga lot of opinions, but the idea being kicked around by Boehner is as reported: most of Senate plan + limited Vitter + medical device tax postponement for 2 years (now ouyt of the Senate plan) + forbidding the Treasury from taking what it calls extraordinary measures to prevent the government from defaulting as cash runs low, to make thye next debt ceiling deadline more of a hard deadline.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  87. Comment by gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/15/2013 @ 10:54 am

    I got the title all wrong but thanks.

    nk (dbc370)

  88. “What payments got prioritized?”

    Tlaloc – The more intelligent question would have been what payments did not get prioritized.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  89. But you know what the end result of picking a hill to die on is? You die.

    Actually what happens just as often is you learn you won’t die.

    Think of the Democrats as the Japanese in the jungles of Guadalcanal. Screaming at the Marine’s on Edson’s Ridge they were going to die.

    So far this gub’mint shutdown is working better than the one in ’95. The one in which the GOP picked up two Senate seats.

    The reason the concern trolls are howling is that the GOP just might gain the Senate.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  90. Obama isnt hard Left enough for falalalalala. This one is invested in its dishonesty.

    JD (5c1832)

  91. Tlaloc – Payments due in a given month. Who decides what day to fund payment.

    What part of FIFO queue is opaque to you?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  92. TaFailalot thinks his answer that “its the Republican’s shutdown” explains Obama’s UNPRECEDENTED action to close OUR Nat’l Parks and memorials…

    Colonel Haiku (ec6093)

  93. That should be Jack Lew’s response to Obama if Barcky asks him not to pay interest on our debt or pay off expiring maturities with cash sitting on his books.

    Of course Jack Lew is nothing but a government flunky who has butt-kissed his way to a cabinet position, so there is no way he would ever say so much as “boo” to the President. Guys like that long ago learned to toe the party line.

    JVW (93c84b)

  94. So far this gub’mint shutdown is working better than the one in ’95. The one in which the GOP picked up two Senate seats.

    The reason the concern trolls are howling is that the GOP just might gain the Senate.

    It must be comforting for you to live in such a coccoon, prevented from any uncomfortable facts getting in.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  95. Reed and Obama refused to negotiate until very recently. They drew a red line on negotiating. Yet it is someone else’s fault that they refused to negotiate. Because, settled law or something.

    JD (5c1832)

  96. Tlaloc, for a guy who always avoids responding to people’s direct questions, you sure do a lot of end zone dances—even after you get sacked or throw an interception.

    I suspect your anger at America and your resentment of successful people emanates from the fact that you hail from a broken or dysfunctional background, just as your hero President MomPants did. But rather than repeating your parents’ mistakes, you ought to grab the bull by the horns and create a culture of independence and self-sufficiency for yourself. You’re smart enough and capable enough to get out there and make it on your own. Create a stable environment for your children—break the cycle of dysfunction. You can do it, Charlie Brown.

    You’re better off depending upon yourself as an adult, rather than depending upon your Uncle Sam to take care of you.

    Elephant Stone (405c46)

  97. Bubble Coccoon EPISTEMIC CLOSURE wingnut teatards!!!!!!

    JD (5c1832)

  98. And FYI, no I’m not. I didn’t vote for him in either election. (No, I didn’t vote for the republican either of course).

    Shame on all of us for wasting our time arguing with a Naderite/Green Party voter. We might as well have spent the time reading Ulysses aloud to a deaf mute.

    JVW (93c84b)

  99. Obama isnt hard Left enough for falalalalala.

    very true, seeing as how he’s a centrist bordering on center right. That’s not why I didn’t vote for him though, unlike you guys I am fully cognizant that my views are not in the american mainstream.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  100. Obama is a centrist, JVW.

    JD (5c1832)

  101. Obama isnt hard Left enough for falalalalala.

    very true, seeing as how he’s a centrist bordering on center right. That’s not why I didn’t vote for him though, unlike you guys I am fully cognizant that my views are not in the american mainstream.

    How do you keep your head from assploding?

    JD (5c1832)

  102. Tlaloc, for a guy who always avoids responding to people’s direct questions,

    Which direct question did you want me to answer?

    I suspect your anger at America and your resentment of successful people emanates from the fact that you hail from a broken or dysfunctional background,

    You need to sharpen your skills if you want to play internet psychologist. Three strikes and you are outta here.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  103. Now Tlaloc is back to lying.

    SPQR (768505)

  104. New York Times 12:59pm: House backs off plan. This seems to be based on Boehner having said around 11 am that no decisions have been made.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/us/politics/congress-budget-debate.html?hp&_r=0

    Boehner is still trying for something. House Republicans seem most set on Vitter rule.

    About 20 House Democrats and Representative Charlie Dent, Republican of Pennsylvania, huddled for a half-hour with Senators Susan Collins, Republican of Maine, and Joe Manchin III, Democrat of West Virginia (part of the gang of 12 in the Senate)

    Senate Republicans to meet at lunch with leadership.

    Dem House plan is to propose Senate bill on the continuing resolution and the debt ceiling be taken up. Many House Republicas call those negitiating in the Senate “the surrender caucus”

    New York Times story doesn’t have House Dem leadership meeting with President Obama at 3:15 pm It says a meeting on Monday afternoon between Obama and the Congressional leadership was canceled.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  105. Obama is a centrist, JVW.

    indeed. In fact quantifiably so. It’s not for nothing that 2008-2012 was referred to as Bush’s third term.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  106. Indeed JD, the “centrist” position on the debt ceiling is to match a raise of it with spending cuts. It polls at around two-thirds support.

    SPQR (768505)

  107. very true, seeing as how he’s a centrist bordering on center right.

    You see, over in Europe the Democrats would be considered to be a right-wing party, because the enlightened Europeans have a true socialist/labor coalition which serves the interests of the working man and. . . . [snore].

    JVW (93c84b)

  108. The only way the house passes something that becomes law is if Boehner goes with a coalition of dems and moderate republicans. Nothing even approaching passable will get by the conservative caucus as we can see because the bill Boehner tried to present was not going to pass the senate or get signed but it as still to much of a surrender according to house conservative.

    Effectively conservatives have marginalized themselves by insisting on things that are non-starters.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  109. It’s not for nothing that 2008-2012 was referred to as Bush’s third term.

    Good to know that George W. Bush is now apparently so popular that he was elected to four terms.

    JVW (93c84b)

  110. “end zone dances”… Is that what that mincing is?!?! More fit for the Ladies’ Sewing Circle…

    Colonel Haiku (fc8d37)

  111. Good to know that George W. Bush is now apparently so popular that he was elected to four terms.

    yes, the dems essentially gave up a lot of principles and embraced many of the most horrifying aspects of Bush’s terms when they nominated Obama.

    That’s why the NSA thing never shocked me, it was the obvious end result of Bush’s wireless wiretapping program which the dems ceased fighting when Obama became the nominee.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  112. “What part of FIFO queue is opaque to you?”

    Tlaloc – Hah! Who said anything about a FIFO queue and opaqueness except you? All you are doing is regurgitating pablum for pinheads you have read elsewhere and confirming you swallowed it whole, not bothering to confirm whether it was true or believable.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  113. Effectively conservatives have marginalized themselves by insisting on things that are non-starters.

    Such as:

    1. Demanding that the provisions of ObamaCare that have been suspended for businesses also be suspended for individuals.

    2. Demanding that the Obama Administration finally — finally! — cough up their long-promised plan to address entitlement spending that is eating up the budget.

    3. Demanding that any attempts to increase the nation’s borrowing power be coupled with steps to return to fiscal prudence before we bury the future in unmanageable debt.

    What horrible things for the GOP to demand, when everyone knows that the prudent thing to do is to kick all the problems into the future so that Dear Leader gets to retire with approval ratings above 50%.

    JVW (93c84b)

  114. Kind of explains the constant “it’s Bush’s fault” from the execrable Obama, doesn’t it, JVW?

    Colonel Haiku (fc8d37)

  115. Tlaloc, focusing your resentment at successful people doesn’t help you to become more successful. And anger and resentment certainly doesn’t help the poor people in Detroit climb the ladder out of poverty.

    The difference between you and many of us here at this website, is that we want poor people to raise their standard of living, while you want to lower the standard of living of the Mitt Romneys of the world.

    Maybe you didn’t start at the same starting line as Mitt Romney’s children, but you can still have a productive, self-sufficient life that does not involve freebies and hand-outs from Uncle Sam.

    Get out there and make it on your own, bro.
    You don’t need the federal government to hand you a kleenex everytime you sneeze—or do you ?

    Elephant Stone (405c46)

  116. Here is a great Michael Ramirez cartoon dedicated to Tlaloc and all his pals.

    JVW (93c84b)

  117. Tlaloc – Hah! Who said anything about a FIFO queue and opaqueness except you? All you are doing is regurgitating pablum for pinheads you have read elsewhere and confirming you swallowed it whole, not bothering to confirm whether it was true or believable.

    I find it interesting how you take something like listening to an expert source of information and refer to it as “regurgitating pablum for pinheads you have read elsewhere.” I think this one view of yours says much.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  118. “What part of FIFO queue is opaque to you?”

    Tlaloc – Completely divorced from reality is what you are. A FIFO queue would be a dream come true for most people waiting to get paid by the government, but you’re too dim to understand that.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  119. What horrible things for the GOP to demand

    except the actual demands were a defunding if not repeal of obamacare. You don’t get to rewrite history like that, JVW.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  120. Another Epic Fail… You are translucent at this point, TaFailalot.

    Colonel Haiku (fc8d37)

  121. 108. Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/15/2013 @ 11:24 am

    The only way the house passes something that becomes law is if Boehner goes with a coalition of dems and moderate republicans.

    That’s generally true, but Boehner could go for things that get 40% to 45% of House Republicans , rather than 15% to 25%.

    It’s not entirely true that no bill passed with few Democratic votes can become law because two House bills recently got passed by the Senate and signed by the president.

    And they might be able to insist that the Senate pass and the president sign bills preventing the parks and other things from being closed when the next continuing resolution expires.

    They have successsfully gotten military pay and death benefits and most of the Pentagon budget out of play.

    They could even get an Obamacare bill. There’s a bill they assed earlier officially legalizing the postponement of the business mandate. They also passed one for the individual mandate, and they passed them as separate bills.

    Since Obama already postponed the business mandate it wouldn’t cost Obama anything besides pride to accept the House bill.

    But then, he wants to dispirit House Republicans.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  122. “I find it interesting how you take something like listening to an expert source of information and refer to it as “regurgitating pablum for pinheads you have read elsewhere.” I think this one view of yours says much.”

    Tlaloc – I think who you consider an expert and their history of truth telling says very much.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  123. the Vitter rule just serves to make our whore Congress ever more the exclusive province of ruling class asspansies like Meghan’s coward daddy

    but if they do it they should force it on the pig staffers too

    just so we can hear them squeal

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  124. 99. very true, seeing as how he’s a centrist bordering on center right.

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/15/2013 @ 11:17 am

    And really, what’s more center right than forcing the Little Sisters of the Poor to buy health insurance that pays for contraceptives?

    http://hotair.com/archives/2013/09/25/little-sisters-of-the-poor-file-lawsuit-to-stop-hhs-from-forcing-them-to-fund-contraception-coverage/

    Mainstream!

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  125. Tlaloc,

    Baracky Obama claims that anti-American domestic terrorist and frothing anti-Semite Bill Ayers was “just a guy in my neighborhood.”

    Do you have guys like that in your neighborhood ?
    Or are they just on your ‘instant messaging’ buddy list ?

    Elephant Stone (405c46)

  126. They have successsfully gotten military pay and death benefits and most of the Pentagon budget out of play.

    True, although I think those represent special cases. The first being a national security issue and the only issue that really played into a rep attack on dems. The second as having served it’s purpose (making the right look bad) and the dems could now graciously let the gop out of the noose.

    I don’t think you can say those special cases represent anything but special cases. I do agree with you that there is a difference between a bill that gets 15% of GOP members and a bill that gets 45%.

    Since Obama already postponed the business mandate it wouldn’t cost Obama anything besides pride to accept the House bill.

    Disagree here. Obama has been very clear about wanting to break the right of their budget hostage taking For all their complaints about Obama governing by provoking crises they have provoked an endless series of financial crises in order to try and extract concessions they can’t get through votes. He’s absolutely right to try and neuter that.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  127. Do you have guys like that in your neighborhood ?

    I wouldn’t know. More to the point you seem to be suggesting a person should force their neighbors to reveal their political persuasions.

    It’s cute how you guys talk about the left being fascists while this kind of rot lives in your hearts.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  128. Kind of explains the constant “it’s Bush’s fault” from the execrable Obama, doesn’t it, JVW?

    I am old enough to have lived to hear the following:

    “There’s not a dime’s worth of difference between Dukakis and Bush.”

    “Clinton is to the right of Eisenhower and Nixon.”

    “Al Gore is a corporatist, militarist conservative who pretends to be concerned about the environment in order to trick progressives.” [that one is actually mostly true though, only omitting the fact that Al Gore is certifiably insane]

    “Tom Daschle is interchangeable with Trent Lott.”

    “Pelosi’s agenda would match-up perfectly with the 1992 GOP platform.”

    And now the whole deal about Obama being center-right. You know what all of those utterances have in common? They all came from somebody who is on the far, far left of the American political spectrum but who is delusional enough to believe that he or she represents majority opinion in this country.

    And Tlaloc deigns to tell us that we live in an information bubble.

    JVW (93c84b)

  129. And now the whole deal about Obama being center-right. You know what all of those utterances have in common? They all came from somebody who is on the far, far left of the American political spectrum but who is delusional enough to believe that he or she represents majority opinion in this country.

    Demonstrably false since, in this very thread, I already said I know I’m not in the mainstream.

    Try harder.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  130. break the right of their budget hostage taking = shredding the constitutional provisions of checks and balances.

    The new center right position.

    You know, the center right always h8ed that three separate and co-equal branches of gub’mint concept.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  131. except the actual demands were a defunding if not repeal of obamacare. You don’t get to rewrite history like that, JVW.

    Nice use of past tense, Tlaloc. Yes, the GOP’s demands were the defunding of ObamaCare, but now it is simply to suspend the individual mandate for a year. You don’t get to rewrite the present like that, Tlaloc.

    JVW (93c84b)

  132. “Obama has been very clear about wanting to break the right of their budget hostage”

    Tlaloc – That is damn funny. Since Obama’s budgets keep getting voted down in the Democrat Senate and until this year the Democrat Senate had not produced a budget since Bush was in office, what flipping budget was there for Republicans to take hostage?

    Obama thinks you and his other voters are stupid and will believe lies like this.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  133. Federalism is next. Federalism is going down.

    Center right!

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  134. break the right of their budget hostage taking = shredding the constitutional provisions of checks and balances.

    fixing an imbalance caused by one party abusing a check. Much like filibuster reform- it wasn’t needed until the right went absolutely crazy with filibusters.

    As usual the extremists ruin it for everyone.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  135. Nice use of past tense, Tlaloc. Yes, the GOP’s demands were the defunding of ObamaCare, but now it is simply to suspend the individual mandate for a year. You don’t get to rewrite the present like that, Tlaloc.

    Sorry, no. Read Cruz. He still wants defunding. He still thinks it can be won. And he’s still leading the conservative caucus like the piper of hamelin.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  136. Tlaloc – Try to be specific. Point to the budget the Republicans held hostage.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  137. Both Tlaloc and Sammy are kind of boring and predictable today. Ima go paint my mailbox I think.

    elissa (ad9aa3)

  138. defunding is my favorite

    a castrated obamacare is much less likely to pee on stuff

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  139. Tlaloc – That is damn funny. Since Obama’s budgets keep getting voted down in the Democrat Senate and until this year the Democrat Senate had not produced a budget since Bush was in office, what flipping budget was there for Republicans to take hostage?

    This quibble is the best shot you could take? Obviously you know the CR is still a budget in the functional sense of the word. It provides money to pay for things. That you are reduced to scrabbling after semantics tells me you know you’ve lost the argument.

    I will graciously accept your surrender.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  140. defunding is my favorite

    And how is that working out for you?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  141. TaFailalot is boring every day. Sammy is amusing, at the very least.

    Colonel Haiku (4e5a95)

  142. 131. Comment by JVW (93c84b) — 10/15/2013 @ 11:47 am

    Yes, the GOP’s demands were the defunding of ObamaCare, but now it is simply to suspend the individual mandate for a year.

    That’s gone too. It’s now, rather, having the Secretary of HHS certify the income verification system is working before insurance companies can be told people qualify for subsidies. The way the federal health exchange software is written, nobody can now even browse the system till that is ssupposed to be verified.

    The plan Boehner was trying to get House Republicans to endorse also had the postponement of the 2.3% medical device tax (a problem particularly because the selling price was already written in contracts, and it could not ber passed on like a state sales tax) which has now dropped out of the Senate compromise, to be replaced by a postponement of the effective date of the high cist “Cadillac” health care plan tax on employers from 2018 to 2019. (that’s the latest effective date of anything in the PPACA I think)

    House Reps are also very much set on enacting some version of the Vitter rule, which Senate Reps have no interest in.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  143. Notice the house plan got pulled precisely because the things Boehner was asking for weren’t enough, exactly like I said.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  144. weren’t enough for the conservatives, sorry posted too quickly.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  145. Tlaloc,

    You want a revolution, huh ?
    Does reading about the French Revolution get you all pumped up ?

    Social justice !!!

    Power to the people mob government !

    Elephant Stone (405c46)

  146. You want a revolution, huh ?

    No. Revolutions don’t change things. Broad social movements change things. Revolutions, at best, help break up the old order so the social movement can take over a little sooner.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  147. The fact it couldn’t win a democratic majority is an issue.

    narciso (3fec35)

  148. Let the Catholic sluts like Mother Theresa open hospices to minister to the Hindus in Calcutta, if they want.

    We know what’s going on.

    But now that we’ve elected the somewhat right wing centrist Barry Soetero, religious employers have been redefined as those who only minister to those of their own faith.

    So if the Sandra Flukes of the Sisters of Charity try that s*** here and attempt to open a hospice ministering to non-Catholics here. They. Are. Buying. Birth. Control.

    No ifs ands or buts. We know what’s going on.

    “Free rider” is now a double entendre involving nuns in the center right world of Flailoc.

    Let me raise the mailed fist of Mainstream!

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  149. No. Revolutions don’t change things.

    The Romanovs will be relieved to hear that.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  150. just the idea of defunding keeps hope alive Mr. Tlaloc it helps the little ones dream of a world unencumbered by fascist whores like the american president

    poor little wizzles

    all they want is life beyond the fascist obamacare thunderdome and the sorosfuhrer’s endless war on jobs and prosperity

    just to see a glimpse of hope shining in their little faces when we sing the defunding song around a pile of burning tires

    it’s not much but it’s all we got anymore

    happyfeet (4bf7c2)

  151. http://stevewyattlafleur.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/guillotine1.jpg

    French aristocrats. Just standing around. Observing not much of anything changing.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  152. 143. Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/15/2013 @ 11:58 am

    Notice the house plan got pulled precisely because the things Boehner was asking for weren’t enough, exactly like I said.

    It didn’t get pulled – it never got officially presented.

    It was pretty weak tea for the Tea Party.

    I think what might have worked was including a demand that in Round 2, parks, NIH, BLS etc not be shut down by insisting 15 bills or so preventing that be included. Getting that would have made the caucus feel productive, and above all, they want and need to feel their being in Congress made a difference.

    Obama would have had a hard time explaining resistance to it and the more attention he drew to it the more people would understand who wanted the parks closed.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  153. It’s too early to do much abut Obamacare, and what was being proposed didn’t help anybody losing insurance.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  154. http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4676129626850188&pid=15.1

    Nope. Nothing much changed in Japan after this guy showed up.

    Admiral Perry and the Black Ships. NOT a broad social movement.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  155. Nothing much changed? Whaaaa? It was the good Admiral Perry what nurtured the cultural soils from whence hello kitty and puffy amiyumi would ultimately spring Mr. Steve

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqiNh8Ncg2M

    He should be on a postage stamp issued by the postal service of a relatively non-fascist country for example New Zealand or Canada.

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  156. Sorry, no. Read Cruz. He still wants defunding. He still thinks it can be won. And he’s still leading the conservative caucus like the piper of hamelin.

    That’s manifestly stupid. Bernie Sanders still wants single payer and argues for it every chance he gets, but he caucuses with the majority so he knows that he isn’t going to get his way. Cruz is part of the minority, so he has the luxury of building a coalition to win, knowing that it is ultimately up to Harry Reid to negotiate a compromise. That is how compromise works: parts of each side get to stake out their desired ideological positions, then see what can be salvaged from the middle.

    But you live in a world where Harry Reid and Barack Obama get to hold out for 95% of what they want, while Boehner is the irresponsible party for trying to influence the final package.

    JVW (93c84b)

  157. Tlaloc,

    Now that you’re 19 or 20, I’m sure your Che Guevara t-shirts and your over-the-shoulder satchel with the Occupy ! and Health Care Now ! bumper stickers affixed may elicit the sparkling youthful eyes of the cute chicks working at Urban Outfitters and Starbucks.
    But once you get to be realllly old, like, 27, or something, you might notice that chicks will start expecting a little more sophistication from a male pursuer.
    ‘Buy one, get one’ coupons for dinner at Souplantation just won’t cut it. Neither will a Tuesday night lecture at the local community center about ‘how to locate the best hostels while backpacking in Europe.’

    Girls will become women, and they will be looking to mate with men who are working more than 29 hours per week. They’ll also be looking for a guy who makes his own action happen, rather than a guy who demands Uncle Sam give him his slice of pie.

    Then again, if you can get Bill Ayers to ghostwrite a couple of books for you and turn that into a “life isn’t fair” cottage industry, then it’s nice work if you can get it, as Gershwin famously wrote.

    But Tlaloc, you might just be better off going down to the corner to catch the bus that will drop you off right in front of the employment agency.

    Man, if you had lived during the pioneer days, you probably would have starved.

    Elephant Stone (405c46)

  158. But now that we’ve elected the somewhat right wing centrist Barry Soetero, religious employers have been redefined as those who only minister to those of their own faith.

    There’s a very fundamental difference between a church and a hospital run by a church. The former has a right to religious liberty, the latter has not. The latter gets regulated like any other business. If the church finds that t negatively impact their religion they are of course free to sell the business off.

    Religion is not a get out of jail free card, you still have to obey the law. And it has always been this way.

    Tlaloc (504b91)

  159. You know, Obama was/is trying to call in forewign countries to lobby, talk up the problem, warn abbout enormous economic consequences – I think he succeeded in scaring Speaker Boehner.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  160. The Romanovs will be relieved to hear that.

    They would have lost power anyway, the broad social changes meant the society was no longer willing to obey them. Hence it wasn’t the revolution but the social change that really mattered in terms of changing things.

    Tlaloc (504b91)

  161. just the idea of defunding keeps hope alive Mr. Tlaloc it helps the little ones dream of a world unencumbered by fascist whores like the american president

    No one can take an idea away from you, so you should be quite content no matter how things turn out.

    Tlaloc (504b91)

  162. It didn’t get pulled – it never got officially presented.

    It was scheduled to be presented and then Boehner met with the conservative caucus and then he didn’t present it. That seems a lot like it got pulled to me.

    Tlaloc (504b91)

  163. Admiral Perry and the Black Ships. NOT a broad social movement.

    True but also not a revolution. I never said invasions don’t change things.

    Tlaloc (504b91)

  164. You forgot Sailor Moon, Mr. Feets!

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xpzKX7qIEXk/TQaFrv6O-JI/AAAAAAAAATI/6QpspMyujQk/s1600/sailor-moon.jpg

    You’re slipping.

    In memory of the legacy of Admiral Matthew Perry, I leave you with the musical stylings of the landmark Japanese girl band Shonan Knife and “twist barbie” from their milestone album “Burning Farm.”

    http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=shonan+knife+twist+barbie&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz35

    The world of music hasn’t been the same ever since. Thanks to visionaries like Perry.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  165. 135. Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/15/2013 @ 11:51 am

    …Cruz. He still wants defunding. He still thinks it can be won…

    That’s not so, according to a New York Times story from Saturday, October 12.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/12/us/politics/budget-and-debt-limit-debate.html?_r=0

    Senate Republicans have insisted on dropping efforts to dismantle the law. At a lunch meeting in the Capitol earlier this week, Mr. McCain asked the roomful of Republican senators if any still thought that reversing parts of the program was an achievable goal now, according to a person briefed on the meeting. No one raised a hand, not even Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, the public face of the conservative push in Congress to repeal the law.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  166. Tlaloc,

    Now that you’re 19 or 20

    You really are bad at this. I’m getting close to 40. I’m currently back in grad school after getting a Bachelors in physical sciences and working for private industry including two fortune 50 companies (one very briefly, would never work for them again, the other for about a decade). I’m divorced and remarried. First one lasted 4 years, we just weren’t right for each other, which might have discovered if we’d lived together first but we didn’t. The second wife and I have been together 11 years now, married for 8 of them. I have two kids from the first marriage, a boy and a girl. My son is just starting high school. Daughter’s in middle school.

    Literally the only thing you wrote that was correct is I do use public transportation. Good job on calling that one!

    Tlaloc (504b91)

  167. 139. Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/15/2013 @ 11:53 am

    the CR is still a budget in the functional sense of the word. It provides money to pay for things.

    It’s not a budget. It’s an appropriations bill. You can appropriate money without having a budget. (in fact I think they should get rid of the budget – have informal tallies, but no legal ones, and tie every apprpriation to a funding source, which could be borrowing. The only test of whetehr calculations are correct will be reality)

    A CR doesn’t have the special Senate and House rules budget bills have.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  168. That’s not so, according to a New York Times story from Saturday, October 12.

    You’re conflating two different things though. The article said Cruz isn’t willing to make a stand himself, but that’s nothing new. The entire defund campaign has revolved around Cruz getting the house to “stand strong” and demand defunding. Guess what Cruz is still saying? The exact same thing, he wants the house to “stand strong” even as he refuses to raise his own hand.

    Is Cruz a cynical hypocrite? Well yeah, of course. But he’s still (cynically and hypocritically) egging on the conservative caucus to push for defunding.

    Tlaloc (504b91)

  169. It’s not a budget. It’s an appropriations bill.

    Which is why I said in the functional sense. It’s a budget in the same sense that a family uses the term. It’s a budget in terms of what the public wants. They don’t care whether the “budget” is a CR or an official Budget, they just care that the government keep operating smoothly.

    Tlaloc (504b91)

  170. 160. …They would have lost power anyway, the broad social changes meant the society was no longer willing to obey them. Hence it wasn’t the revolution but the social change that really mattered in terms of changing things.

    Comment by Tlaloc (504b91) — 10/15/2013 @ 12:25 pm

    Of course, Flailoc.

    When I reflect on the October Revolution the very first thing that crosses my my mind is, “Oh, yeah. There’s a society that was no longer willing to obey a bunch of autocrats.”

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  171. Tlaloc,

    You’re almost 40 ??!!!
    and you’re still wearing Che Guevara t-shirts, and trying to pick up chicks at Urban Outfitters and Starbucks ?!

    Good Allah, you’re way older than I am.

    Many people have experienced a difficult upbringing, but don’t let it define you for the rest of your life. You can break the cycle, and let ‘change’ (there’s that word !) begin with you.
    You have an obligation to teach self-sufficiency to your children, so that they will be able to fend for themselves when they become adults.

    You don’t want your children to be dependent upon Uncle Sam, do you ?
    They should be dependent upon daddy—not Uncle Barack.

    Tlaloc, please tell me you’re not still carrying one of those over-the-shoulder satchels with goofy left wing bumper stickers affixed to them.
    Don’t.Be.That.Guy.

    Elephant Stone (405c46)

  172. Somehow I don’t think that Lenin and the other engineers of revolutionary terror would have shared your views on broad social movements.

    But that’s just me.

    And Che.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  173. So, steve, you think russians were united under the Romanof rule one day and hardcore communists the next?

    Hrrrm. Seems a lot more likely that there was a gradual erosion of the Romanof rule until which the communists took advantage of.

    Tlaloc (504b91)

  174. Somehow I don’t think that Lenin and the other engineers of revolutionary terror would have shared your views on broad social movements.

    So you’re saying disagreeing with lenin makes one wrong!?

    Jeebus, never thought I’d see that.

    Tlaloc (504b91)

  175. ==gradual erosion of the Romanof rule==

    Or murder in the forest.

    elissa (3961c8)

  176. Tlaloc,

    The Bolsheviks were kind of sexy, don’t you think ? They forced people to live the way they dictated. There were no Ted Cruzes or Mike Lees. Well, there were Ted Cruzes and Mike Lees, but they were sent away. To a camp ! Like, uh, summer camp, ‘cept it was all year. For the rest of their lives. Or whatever.

    That’s like so sexxxy. Or something.

    Elephant Stone (405c46)

  177. Forgets the Kerensky cabinet, that was composed of Social REvolutionaries, and Kadets (liberal) that were toppled like Bani Sadr, or Muzorewa,

    narciso (3fec35)

  178. The Bolsheviks were kind of sexy, don’t you think ? They forced people to live the way they dictated. There were no Ted Cruzes or Mike Lees. Well, there were Ted Cruzes and Mike Lees, but they were sent away. To a camp ! Like, uh, summer camp, ‘cept it was all year. For the rest of their lives. Or whatever.

    Actually I think you’d find a lot more similarities between the bolsheviks and people like cruz than you’d like to admit. The key feature is not the particular ideology but the insistence on the ideology, whatever it is, before all other concerns. And of course the labelling as enemies anyone who isn’t in full throated agreement.

    Tlaloc (504b91)

  179. You conservatives like freedom.
    But I like freebies !

    Elephant Stone (405c46)

  180. Or murder in the forest.

    Because of course there’s no way that an erosion of power or right to rule could lead to the murder of said ruler.

    :eyeroll:

    Tlaloc (504b91)

  181. i like it when they don’t skimp on the cheese sauce

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  182. You conservatives like freedom.
    But I like freebies !

    Perhaps the best thing to come out of this whole fiasco is objective proof that conservatives are deeply wed to freebies.

    Sorry I thin I interrupted your complaints about access to parks?

    Tlaloc (504b91)

  183. E.S. I’d also have thought he’d be way younger than 40 from his uh debating style and his verbal tics. For sure we know he was not a history major. I dunno about you all but to me its way creepier to find out he’s actually a commie than if he was an Obamabot.

    elissa (3961c8)

  184. Hah I actually have a sailor moon… tapestry thingy in my bathroom!

    It’s gonna come down at some point over the next few months though as I dedecorate the whole apartment, and I probably won’t keep it cause I just don’t have any real relationship with Sailor Moon I just got it cause it was blue and I have a lot of blue going on in the bathrooom cause where the heaterlamp should be I put a blue squiggle bulb so I can use the bathroom at night without confuzzling the turtles with a bright light.

    That typifies what an extraordinarily considerate pikachu I am by the way if you ever need examples for a fawning puff piece.

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  185. Do note that TaFailalot refuses to acknowledge that Obama took UNPRECEDENTED action when he closed access to the Nat’l Parks and memorials during his government shutdown… an action that ALL of his predecessors (including, most recently, Bill Clinton in mid-90s) refused to stoop to. He wanted to make this as

    Colonel Haiku (0f1c4b)

  186. painful as possible, cuz that’s the sort of man he is.

    Colonel Haiku (0f1c4b)

  187. Really, elissa, what difference – at this point- what difference is there between a commie and an Obamabot?

    Colonel Haiku (cd6dde)

  188. …and you’re still wearing Che Guevara t-shirts…

    Great minds think alike.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  189. Shorter Flailoc.

    Gub’mint freebie = expecting to operate your business as long as you’re paid up on the lease.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  190. http://www.cliffhouse.com/sutro/pdf/wine_list.pdf

    Could you be good enough to point out my gub’mint freebies, Flailoc?

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  191. the typical sort of wannabe Journolisting;

    http://minx.cc/?post=344181

    narciso (3fec35)

  192. 178. Comment by Tlaloc (504b91) — 10/15/2013 @ 12:59 pm

    The Bolsheviks were kind of sexy, don’t you think ? They forced people to live the way they dictated. There were no Ted Cruzes or Mike Lees. Well, there were Ted Cruzes and Mike Lees, but they were sent away. To a camp !

    You know I read the other day that Lenin actually had an observant Jew in his first cabinet! He is reported to have used to sneak away to daven minchah. (I know this sounds like the story of the Jewish Pope)

    It was a coalition government with Socialist Revolutionaries, and he was a Social Revolutionary, and they didn’t demand atheism, and I guess anyway he had a kind of foot in both camps.

    He quit after a couple of months, and later he was warned he was going to arrested and fled the country to Germany. He later on busied himself with finding alternative Jewish homelands, if I remember the article right.

    But I can’t remember his name.

    Found it: Dr Isaac Nathan Steinberg. Or that’s one version.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Steinberg

    Isaac Nachman Steinberg (Russian: Исаак Нахман Штейнберг; 13 July 1888 – 2 January 1957) was a lawyer, revolutionary, politician, a leader of the Jewish Territorialist movement and writer in Soviet Russia and in exile….

    From December 1917 to March 1918, he was People’s Commissar (Narkom) of Justice in Vladimir Lenin’s government during the Bolsheviks’ short-lived coalition with the left wing of the SR. Steinberg resigned his post in protest against the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk and campaigned against the Bolsheviks. In 1923, having been warned that he was in danger of assassination, he again moved to Germany and took his young family with him.

    After the Nazis came to power in 1933, Steinberg, his wife and three children settled in London…

    Steinberg was an Orthodox Jew; it’s rumored that during his short tenure as Commisar of Justice he refused to work on Sabbath, much to Lenin’s dismay.[3][4]

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  193. Wikipedia link:

    http://www.jta.org/1957/01/04/archive/dr-isaac-steinberg-leader-of-freeland-league-dies-in-new-york

    Dr. Isaac Steinberg, founder and secretary general of the Freeland League for Jewish Territorial Colonization, author, editor and one-time member of the Bolshevik Government, died here yesterday. He was 68….He was a strictly Orthodox Jew and observed Jewish religious rituals even when be served in the Lenin government….He spent six years in Australia working on plans for Jewish colonization

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  194. 173. So, steve, you think russians were united under the Romanof rule one day and hardcore communists the next?

    Comment by Tlaloc (504b91) — 10/15/2013 @ 12:49 pm

    Proof positive there’s nothing out of which Flailoc can’t construct a strawman.

    Yeah, dude, I was totally speaking of the unity of the Russians under the Romanovs.

    Totally!

    It’s like you know me. How do you do it?

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  195. Comment by Tlaloc (504b91) — 10/15/2013 @ 12:44 pm

    It’s a budget in the same sense that a family uses the term. It’s a budget in terms of what the public wants. They don’t care whether the “budget” is a CR or an official Budget, they just care that the government keep operating smoothly.

    It’s not a BUDGET at all. It’s an appropriation bill. How is that a budget?

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  196. “This quibble is the best shot you could take? Obviously you know the CR is still a budget in the functional sense of the word.”

    Tlaloc – More with the alternate reality?

    You cannot point to a budget the Republicans have held hostage because one does not exist. Obama is flat out lying once again.

    Obama’s budgets have been DOA in Congress, so bad even the Senate has not been willing to pass them. The Senate has been too cowardly to advance its own version of a budget under Obama until earlier this year.

    That is precisely why the government has been operating under a series of continuing resolutions rather than budgets produced under normal order, the consistent failure of Democrats to do the jobs they were elected to do.

    Continuing resolutions are far from budgets as others have pointed out. Your surrender is complete. The government has been held hostage by Obama and Senate Democrats.

    QED

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  197. Yep, Mike Lee and Ted Cruz are just like Bolsheviks … meanwhile its Sheila Jackson-Lee calling for martial law. (Or Martian law, with Jackson-Lee its clear she does not know the difference)

    SPQR (9c5bd8)

  198. “You really are bad at this. I’m getting close to 40.”

    Tlaloc – Wow. You are shockingly uninformed for your age. Do you smoke a lot of dope?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  199. ==at this point- what difference is there between a commie and an Obamabot?==

    In truth, Mr. Colonel, among the older ones, not much difference. They know the score. But among the younger ones–the more recent products of the American education system what lurve them some fairness and unicorns and Obama magic and government regulation of everything –I don’t think they even get that they are projecting and espousing Commie ideas. They know nothing of the murderous 20th century regimes and the human despair that arose from Communist Soviet Union and China.

    elissa (3961c8)

  200. 173. Comment by Tlaloc (504b91) — 10/15/2013 @ 12:49 pm

    Seems a lot more likely that there was a gradual erosion of the Romanof rule until which the communists took advantage of.

    You forgot about the Provisional Government of Alexander Kerensky?

    Lenin tried to take over a few times. His coup in July, 1917 failed.

    http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch07-4.htm

    In violation of the agreements made when the tsar was overthrown, regiments in Petrograd were ordered to the front to help the failed offensive. Soldiers in Petrograd took to the streets, and the revolt was joined by 6,000 sailors from the nearby Kronstadt naval base. Soldiers repeated the Bolshevik’s call for “all power to the Soviets,” and the Bolsheviks supported their revolt. The Provisional Government announced evidence they had of Bolshevik dealings with the Germans, which stunned the soldiers. Then what had not happened for the tsar happened for the Provisional Government: troops loyal to the government entered Petrograd and quelled the rising there. Numerous Bolsheviks were arrested, and some soldiers from Petrograd were sent to the front. The office of the Bolshevik newspaper, Pravda, was wrecked, and an order went out for the arrest of Lenin, who went into hiding….

    [Later]

    Fearing counter-revolution, Kerensky sought as much help as he could get from those who supported the revolution against the Tsar, including the Bolsheviks. The government released Bolsheviks from prison, and it released from prison an ally of the Bolsheviks, Leon Trotsky, a skilled writer and orator, a revolutionary who had been a leading figure in the popular rising in 1905.

    Trotsky and the Bolsheviks armed all of those they could who were sympathetic to preventing counter-revolution. Kerensky’s government arrested prominent generals for conspiring with Kornilov. Military officers abandoned any support they had had for the Provisional Government and Kerensky. Kornilov sent an army of Cossacks under General Krymov toward Petrograd. Workers and soldiers met Krymov’s army and talked many in Krymov’s army into abandoning their drive on Petrograd. Defeated, Kornilov and some other generals were arrested and jailed, and General Krymov killed himself with his revolver…

    …Still in hiding, Lenin was aware that the Provisional Government had lost effective power. With the Bolsheviks having majority support in the Petrograd Soviet, it was time, he believed, to take power on behalf of the soviets. Bolshevik leaders around Lenin, namely Kamenev and Zinoviev, feared another premature attempted coup like the one in July, and they opposed such a move. Trotsky supported Lenin. Lenin won enough of his fellow Bolshevik leaders to his side to make his move. And joining the Bolsheviks and Trotsky were their allies in the Soviets, an agrarian political party favoring social revolution known as the Left Socialist-Revolutionary (SR) Party..

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  201. daleyrocks, and notice that Tlaloc falsely believes that the Bolsheviks overthrew the Tsarist government. It actually overthrew the more moderate Menshevik dominated government that had replaced Tsarist rule.

    But then, Marxists always like to rewrite their history.

    Shorter Tlaloc: the Kulaks had it coming.

    SPQR (9c5bd8)

  202. I’m getting far off track. But history is kind of complicated.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  203. You beat me to it, Sammy. But I never thought I’d see you write: “I’m getting far off track. “

    SPQR (9c5bd8)

  204. 198. “You really are bad at this. I’m getting close to 40.”

    Tlaloc – Wow. You are shockingly uninformed for your age. Do you smoke a lot of dope?

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/15/2013 @ 1:37 pm

    The Cold War.

    Been there.

    Done that.

    Flailoc’s still wearing the T-shirt.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  205. The Bolsheviks killed people.

    They attempted to kill anybody who could carry a tale.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  206. 201. …Shorter Tlaloc: the Kulaks had it coming.

    Comment by SPQR (9c5bd8) — 10/15/2013 @ 1:43 pm

    Oh, noes! Flailoc tellz me that the bolsheviks just flipped a switch and turned the Russians from unified royalists one day to hardcore communists the next.

    What are these Kulaks you speak of, SPQR?

    Why would they have anything coming if you could flip that switch?

    I look forward to Flailoc further expanding my horizons as he seeks to inform me about what I think.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  207. 173. So, steve, you think russians were united under the Romanof rule one day and hardcore communists the next?

    Comment by Tlaloc (504b91) — 10/15/2013 @ 12:49 pm

    That’s pretty much the distilled essence of my political philosophy. I’m freakin’ married to the notion.

    Uncanny how you figured it out.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  208. Steve57, its pretty hilarious that Tlaloc is so confident in his intellectual superiority as he demonstrates his utter lack.

    SPQR (9c5bd8)

  209. Those who do not learn from history, SPQR, are doomed to repeat it.

    Those who have never heard of history are Flailoc.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  210. History does not repeat, but it does rhyme.

    SPQR (9c5bd8)

  211. I’m still waiting for you to point out the gub’mint freebies that I’m addicted to from the Cliff House menu, Flailoc.

    Anytime now.

    Perhaps they’re on the Bistro’s breakfast and lunch menu.

    http://www.cliffhouse.com/bistro/pdf/menus_am_PDFs/am_menu.pdf

    Philosophical question: If the Cliff House doesn’t take my EBT card, is it really a gub’mint freebie?

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  212. “What are these Kulaks you speak of, SPQR?”

    Steve57 – I had toasted Kulaks in a bowl with a little milk and sugar for breakfast this morning. On sale this week at Fresh Markets.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  213. Still waiting for my free Darfur. They’re always out when I ask about it at the store.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  214. 210. History does not repeat, but it does rhyme.

    Comment by SPQR (9c5bd8) — 10/15/2013 @ 2:00 pm

    Yeah, I know. Like history is a video game that you keep getting to do over until you get it right, then move onto the next level.

    I always hated that bromide about history, but obviously I’m not above using it.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  215. daley @212, did you get them free from the gub’mint?

    Flailoc tells me I’ll get addicted to them.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  216. Steve57 – Kulaks were on sale and very tasty. Not a government freebie for me.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  217. I must admit I cracked up in the office when I read Tlaloc state that churches owning businesses had to follow laws.

    What about Obama’s immigration system and non-passed Dream Act? To say nothing of the Arms Export Control Act’s relation to Fast and Furious and aid to Libyan/Syrian rebels.

    luagha (5cbe06)

  218. The scare is starting to reach the general public. I got a call from a friend.

    I don’t think a disaster is about to happen, or even possible.

    If Obama really thought there would or cuould be a disaster he would be acting differently. He’s being very stubborn. Over nothing. Or what looks like nothing.

    What’s going on now is that people in Washington are struggling over who has the advantage in the coming budget negotiations, not about any thing underlying yet.

    I think the Republicans are wrong in many of their ideas, and I think the Democrats are being cynical. They don’t believe any of the stuff they are saying.

    Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

  219. I must admit I cracked up in the office when I read Tlaloc state that…

    The best part is he takes himself so seriously.

    He thinks he makes me angry.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  220. At #40 I said:
    Maybe I’m being brain lazy today, but the issues in Washington seem to be more diffuse and confusing, rather than clear.
    That can’t be good.

    Comment by MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/15/2013 @ 10:00 am

    177 comments later, things aren’t any better.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  221. “If Obama really thought there would or cuould be a disaster he would be acting differently.”

    Sammy – Exactly.

    I think people need to ask themselves whether Obama exercised any leadership to prevent the government shutdown.

    The clear answer is no he did not. All he did was issue ultimatums and refuse to talk to people. He wanted 17% of the government to shut down.

    Then people need to ask themselves whether once 17% of the government shutdown, did Obama try to make it less or more painful for the American people. The clear answer is that he tried to make it more painful for the American people in order to score political points.

    You cannot call what he is doing leading.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  222. Comment by luagha (5cbe06) — 10/15/2013 @ 2:18 pm

    It is comments like that which cause me to wonder if he takes time to think what he intends to say and really means it,
    or whether he is just being an oppositional pain in the butt.

    Either way, there is not much discussion to be had with one who believes that freedom of conscience is limited to some small and discrete part of the week, and the rest of the time one must bow to the all-powerful state.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  223. Mr. Feets – Here is another musical interlude for you from a band with a seemingly racist name which is apropos of the current dire situation our plague-ridden country finds itself in for it tells you what you must do in your staunchiness.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ISLeHByD-I

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  224. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/15/2013 @ 2:30 pm

    The clear answer is that he tried to make it more painful for the American people in order to score political points.

    Except that a lot of people didn’t know that. The person I talked to was completely surprised at the idea he made it worse, that he didn’t have to do what he did.

    Not to mention the bills passed by the House to re-open different parts of the federal government.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  225. Paneta called him out on his failure to lead today.

    JD (35bf64)

  226. The Vitter rule is based on acultivated misunderstanding of what Obamacare actually does.

    The exchanges are only for those who do not have employer provided health insurance.

    Nobody is actually forced to sue it, and if they get no suubsidy theer’s no need to go there.

    If someone has a spouse with insurance, they can get insurance that way maybe.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  227. The best part is he takes himself so seriously.

    He thinks he makes me angry.

    If I make you angry are you really sure I’m the one taking myself too seriously?

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  228. “Except that a lot of people didn’t know that.”

    Sammy – I find it hard to worry about people who don’t know things, don’t you?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  229. It is comments like that which cause me to wonder if he takes time to think what he intends to say and really means it,
    or whether he is just being an oppositional pain in the butt.

    So you think having a personal religion should exempt any business , hell any partnership or endeavor of any type, from any laws you happen to feel like saying violate your religion? That would seem to be the direction you are going.

    Yes I’ve thought through what I said, are you sure you have?

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  230. If I make you angry are you really sure I’m the one taking myself too seriously?

    Sorry misread what you said. To be honest I only think I make you angry because typically you respond with ad hominem and swearing in equal measures (unless i’m mistaking you for another poster, it’s a possibility). That tends to be a clue the person has lost their cool.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  231. It sounds like you did set him straight about this, though, right, Sammy? Each little bit helps, I think. And maybe now your friend will tell a few other people.

    elissa (3961c8)

  232. Of course, Python helped shaped the Perfidious Albion of today, but that’s not the important thing.

    Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 10/15/2013 @ 8:07 am

    Politicians, An Apology

    Much better.

    Smock Puppet, Gadfy, Racist-Sexist Thug, and Bon Vivant All In One Package (afdedb)

  233. Sammy – I can’t really control the number of liberals who are uninformed about the racist history of the Democrat party, Obama’s history of hanging out with terrorists and communists, the origin of Planned Parenthood as an organization for population control of undesirable elements of our citizenry, the fact that JFK was killed by a communist and RFK by a Palestinian.

    Otherwise I would drive myself nuts worrying about stuff.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  234. If Obama really thought there would or cuould be a disaster he would be acting differently. He’s being very stubborn. Over nothing. Or what looks like nothing.

    I disagree. His actions make perfect sense if you first posit that he’s a subscriber of the unitary executive view of the presidency like so many on the right (right up until they lost the whitehouse, of course). Further there’s every reason to think the right will take the brunt of the political fallout and even a colorable argument that the right needs such a backlash to recover from their current madness.

    Obama is acting like someone who tried for years to reach out to republicans only to be reviled by them in the most obscene terms. At some point you just stop trying.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  235. Did you read Megan McArdle’s piece about Obamacare yet, Tlaloc? What did you think about it?

    elissa (3961c8)

  236. “That tends to be a clue the person has lost their cool.”

    Tlaloc – Another indication is the commenter, such as yourself, who keeps erecting strawmen and moving the goalposts, but we don’t need to revisit those comments again, do we?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  237. Sammy – I can’t really control the number of liberals who are uninformed about the racist history of the Democrat party,

    I suspect if you did you’d conveniently leave out the southern realignment where those same racists, by and large, left for the GOP who welcomed them with open arms…

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  238. 228.

    The best part is he takes himself so seriously.

    He thinks he makes me angry.

    If I make you angry are you really sure I’m the one taking myself too seriously?

    Comment by Tlaloc (24a34f) — 10/15/2013 @ 2:43 pm

    See what I mean?

    And, yeah, I know you acknowledge you misread what I wrote.

    But that was the product of your first pass at it.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  239. Tlaloc – Another indication is the commenter, such as yourself, who keeps erecting strawmen and moving the goalposts, but we don’t need to revisit those comments again, do we?

    It’s hard to revisit things that only exist on your head.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  240. Did you read Megan McArdle’s piece about Obamacare yet, Tlaloc? What did you think about it?

    Don’t remember, got a link?

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  241. Comrade TaFailalot knows that Kommisar Obama has more mojo in his left pinkie than he has in his right.

    Colonel Haiku (4e5a95)

  242. Which is unprecedented.

    Colonel Haiku (4e5a95)

  243. Assuming you meant the drop dead date article, just read it.

    As someone dipping my toes into computer science it reads like every clueless rant by someone whose custom ordered program didn’t spit out ponies for free. Color me unimpressed.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  244. Obama is acting like someone who tried for years to reach out to republicans only to be reviled by them in the most obscene terms. At some point you just stop trying.

    Absolute insanity

    JD (35bf64)

  245. Tlaloc, as someone with many years of experience in software projects, your opinion leaves me more than merely unimpressed.

    SPQR (768505)

  246. There is a nice karma aspect to the exchange launch going badly- it disproportionately affects republicans since the only people using the federal exchange are people in states with republican government which rejects creating their own.

    As they say you deserve the government you vote for.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  247. Tlaloc–Just so you know, pretty much nobody ever talked about the “Unitary Executive” until it became the rage on lefty blogs during the GW Bush administration. It’s in the same class of garbage as the “epistemic closure” business which was also something that over-stimulated the leftist blogosphere (and not in a good way) as they pretended to understand and analyze conservative behavior.

    elissa (3961c8)

  248. Absolute insanity

    you would say that about demonstrable fact.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  249. 245. …Color me unimpressed.

    Comment by Tlaloc (24a34f) — 10/15/2013 @ 3:00 pm

    I would but under teh new normal in this Obamanation we are only allowed shades of grey.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  250. Why are you so hateful and angry, falalala? Why is it that all you and your fellow travelers are so nasty, and dishonest?

    JD (35bf64)

  251. “Obama is acting like someone who tried for years to reach out to republicans only to be reviled by them in the most obscene terms.”

    Another utterly fraudulent statement by Tlaloc. At no time has Obama tried to “reach out” to Republicans least of all for “years”. Just days into his Presidency, what was Obama’s reaction to GOP concerns with the stimulus package? “I won.”

    SPQR (768505)

  252. Tlaloc–The link is posted somewhere up above in a comment but it’s easier to just repost the link:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-14/obamacare-needs-a-drop-dead-date.html

    elissa (3961c8)

  253. Tlaloc–Just so you know, pretty much nobody ever talked about the “Unitary Executive” until it became the rage on lefty blogs during the GW Bush administration. It’s in the same class of garbage as the “epistemic closure” business which was also something that over-stimulated the leftist blogosphere (and not in a good way) as they pretended to understand and analyze conservative behavior.

    Alright, if you say. Whether they used the term though the idea was certainly big on the right. It was practicaly a crusade for the neocons, after all.

    Epistemic closure on the other hand is a very real thing. You can see it in this very thread (and essentially every other thread here). When you confine yourself to a small set of news sources with all similar bents, and particularly that all feed into each other the possibility for catastrophic failures to understand reality grow rapidly. See for instance the 2012 election, which I mention frequently because it was such a gigantic example and direct proof of the info bubble too many on the right live in and even demand.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  254. Tlaloc, again you demonstrate your ignorance with your display that you don’t understand what “unitary executive” even refers to.

    SPQR (768505)

  255. Alright, if you say. Whether they used the term though the idea was certainly big on the right. It was practicaly a crusade for the neocons, after all.

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

    JD (35bf64)

  256. Why are you so hateful and angry, falalala? Why is it that all you and your fellow travelers are so nasty, and dishonest?

    JD, notice I don’t make up slurs about you guys smelling bad, being homeless, being insane, or being children. All of which have been directed at me by you guys.

    Makes it pretty clear which side is nasty and hateful, huh?

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  257. JD, especially funny since its related to Tlaloc’s false belief in the structure of the USPS.

    SPQR (768505)

  258. It was practicaly a crusade for the neocons, after all.

    Jeez, can you please finish telling me what I think about the Russian revolution before launching into telling me about what was recently my crusade.

    I still haven’t found my gub’mint freebie on either the Cliff House or Pisgah Inn’s on-line menu.

    A little help, Flailoc.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  259. Tlaloc @259. You do actually smell bad.

    Good news is, that can be fixed.

    Now for the rest…

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  260. At no time has Obama tried to “reach out” to Republicans least of all for “years”. Just days into his Presidency, what was Obama’s reaction to GOP concerns with the stimulus package? “I won.”

    Obamacare was a huge reach out to the right. He didn’t try to pass single payer. He didn’t try to pass a government option. Nope he pushed hard against his own party to pass a plan from that well known lefty group Heritage. And said plan was modeled on the plan enacted by that hardcore communist Romney, you know the guy you just ran for president.

    How much more of a reach out could that have been? He bent over backwards to give you your policy on a silver platter and not one rep voted for it.

    That’s reality outside the bubble. It’s all historically verifiable, but you won’t believe it because it doesn’t fit with what you have told yourself, so you’ll change facts to fit percetion rather than vice versa.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  261. Tlaloc @259. You do actually smell bad.

    Steve, you really don’t have to help me prove my point.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  262. Tlaloc, again you demonstrate your ignorance with your display that you don’t understand what “unitary executive” even refers to.

    loosely translated it means a republican president can do anything he wants while a dem president can do nothing…

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  263. Nope he pushed hard against his own party to pass a plan from that well known lefty group Heritage.

    You mean, the one the GOP didn’t try to pass cuz they thought it was nuts.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  264. Tlaloc, not passing single payer was “reaching out”? That’s hilarious and typical of your dishonesty. Democrats did not have the votes for single payer.

    You are such a hilariously brazen liar.

    SPQR (768505)

  265. “loosely translated it means a republican president can do anything he wants while a dem president can do nothing…”

    Another lie.

    SPQR (768505)

  266. 264. Steve, you really don’t have to help me prove my point.

    Comment by Tlaloc (24a34f) — 10/15/2013 @ 3:12 pm

    Au contraire, mon frere.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  267. JD, notice I don’t make up slurs about you guys smelling bad, being homeless, being insane, or being children. All of which have been directed at me by you guys.

    Right. Do you have any idea how many times you have lied, vilified, claimed faux concern, attributed malice to policy disagreements? Yet another leftist that thinks it is worse to call names than it is to be aggressively dishonest.

    JD (35bf64)

  268. Obamacare was a huge reach out to the right. He didn’t try to pass single payer. He didn’t try to pass a government option. Nope he pushed hard against his own party to pass a plan from that well known lefty group Heritage. And said plan was modeled on the plan enacted by that hardcore communist Romney, you know the guy you just ran for president.

    Case in point.

    JD (35bf64)

  269. I still contend that pointing out somebody’s BO isn’t an ad hominem attack.

    It should be considered an act of kindness.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  270. ==He didn’t try to pass single payer. He didn’t try to pass a government option.==

    Yeah. LOL. There’s a reason for that, too and it was definitely not that Obama was trying to “reach out” or be collegial. He had both damn houses of congress and he didn’t have enough votes –Democrat votes– to pass those. Remember? He even had to bribe Democrats and also break a few rules to even pass ACA without a single R vote.

    elissa (3961c8)

  271. TaFailalot continues to ignore Obama’s unprecedented punitive closure of Nat’l Parks and monuments during his shutdown. His disdain for his fellow countrymen knows no bounds.

    Colonel Haiku (358fb1)

  272. According to hotair the house has basically given up passing anything today which means probably passing whatever senate bill emerges:
    http://hotair.com/archives/2013/10/15/house-gop-drops-obamacares-medical-device-tax-from-new-bill-final-cave-looming/
    see the last update.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  273. Obamacare was a huge reach out to the right. He didn’t try to pass single payer.

    He didn’t have the votes.

    He didn’t try to pass a government option.

    He didnt have the votes.

    Nope he pushed hard against his own party to pass a plan from that well known lefty group Heritage.

    There is no evidence there was sufficient support for either aspect even amongst the Dems, nor his pushing against party.
    The idea that ObamaCare was a Heritage proposa is laughable, based on a position they took in the 90’s. In your world, must we abide by any proposal made by any conservative in any decade?

    Nevermind. You are committed to your aggressive dishonesty. Consider those questions rhetorical.

    JD (35bf64)

  274. You mean, the one the GOP didn’t try to pass cuz they thought it was nuts.

    I mean the one they would have passed if they could have, yeah.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  275. What’s hilarious about Tlaloc’s brazen frauds is that even in his mistaken view of what “unitary executive” means – where he mistakenly ascribes it to the issue of broad, unenumerated executive powers – the main advocates of such broad powers have been Democrats historically. The main Supreme Court cases on the scope of Presidential powers themselves start with Democrat Presidents – Curtiss-Wright Export Co., Youngstown Sheet & Tube (the Steel cases) etc.

    SPQR (768505)

  276. Right. Do you have any idea how many times you have lied, vilified, claimed faux concern, attributed malice to policy disagreements?

    The last one I will cop to. I do need to keep in mind the adage “never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence” more. The others? Well those would be 0 times. But you wouldn’t know that because almost everything you “know” is wrong. And you refuse to step out of the bubble into the scary world where you might learn actual facts.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  277. …unprecedented punitive closure of Nat’l Parks and monuments…

    Because of course none of us knew how monuments worked until history started with the coronation of Barack Obama five years back.

    http://www.portofsandiego.org/images/stories/Public-Art/artdirectory/battle-of-leyte/P1180025.jpg

    The memorial to Ziggy Sprague and the men of Taffy Three just stops working if the government isn’t fully funded.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  278. Yet another leftist that thinks it is worse to call names than it is to be aggressively dishonest.

    Another righty who sees facts as aggressive dishonesty

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  279. I mean the one they would have passed if they could have, yeah.

    You are simply an imbecile.

    JD (35bf64)

  280. Yeah. LOL. There’s a reason for that, too and it was definitely not that Obama was trying to “reach out” or be collegial. He had both damn houses of congress and he didn’t have enough votes –Democrat votes– to pass those. Remember? He even had to bribe Democrats and also break a few rules to even pass ACA without a single R vote.

    The only way to know if the votes were there would have been to try. He refused to even try. Instead he went right to the GOP policy and strong armed that.

    But you won’t say ‘thank you’ instead you’ll scream “KENYAN MARXIST MUSLIM WHY ARE YOU SO MEAN O THE RIGHT?!”

    Now guess why even the people in your own party don’t take you conservatives seriously.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  281. So long as you are comfortable in your bubble, falalala. It is inconceivable to asshats like this that one could watch MSNBC almost nightly, read waaaaaaaaaaay more leftist pap than conservative writing, and be in the minority in one’s family and social circle as to political views, and not simply accept the warm nuturing bosom of Mother Government and the Nanny State.

    JD (35bf64)

  282. The only way to know if the votes were there would have been to try. He refused to even try. Instead he went right to the GOP policy and strong armed that.

    But you won’t say ‘thank you’ instead you’ll scream “KENYAN MARXIST MUSLIM WHY ARE YOU SO MEAN O THE RIGHT?!”

    How many lies distortions and smears in those few sentences?

    JD (35bf64)

  283. You are simply an imbecile.

    Careful or steve wil label you a hater.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  284. Fortunately the monument to the men who fought and died in the Battle off Samar in the Port of San Diego isn’t a federal one.

    So your chances of some goon in an park ranger outfit shouting at you to avert your eyes is practically nil.

    It’s carved out of granite. It just sits there. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. The park rangers you never see there when the gub’mint is open will still not be there when the gub’mint is shut.

    Why not?

    Because Obama isn’t in charge of it.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  285. 287. Careful or steve wil label you a hater.

    Comment by Tlaloc (24a34f) — 10/15/2013 @ 3:41 pm

    That’d be “h8r.”

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  286. So long as you are comfortable in your bubble, falalala. It is inconceivable to asshats like this that one could watch MSNBC almost nightly, read waaaaaaaaaaay more leftist pap than conservative writing, and be in the minority in one’s family and social circle as to political views, and not simply accept the warm nuturing bosom of Mother Government and the Nanny State.

    Not inconceivable but really sad that that means you have no excuse to be so poorly connected to reality. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  287. That’d be “h8r.”

    noted.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  288. ==But you won’t say ‘thank you’ instead you’ll scream “KENYAN MARXIST MUSLIM WHY ARE YOU SO MEAN O THE RIGHT?!===

    If you read and actually digest Megan McArdle’s piece in Bloomberg you’ll better understand why nobody here is saying “thank you” for Obamacare. You’ll better understand why it got not a single R vote. Not one. You’ll maybe even understand why some prominent lefties are now openly saying WTF –and it’s not just because the O-Care website sucketh and is inoperable.

    You ain’t gonna win this one Tlaloc.

    elissa (3961c8)

  289. If you read and actually digest Megan McArdle’s piece in Bloomberg you’ll better understand why nobody here is saying “thank you” for Obamacare. You’ll better understand why it got not a single R vote. Not one.

    Right because when republicans were championing the heritage plan that would become the PPACA they knew it would be a disaster. Wait no, I mean you only learned your policy was a disaster when it was put into actual practice. wait no. What you are saying is on no account should anyone ever enact policy that comes from righty think tanks. Dammit that’s not it either.

    what is it you are saying?

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  290. You ain’t gonna win this one Tlaloc.

    Already won it, now I’m just watching you squirm on the horrible cognitive dissonance you got going on.

    I imagine it must feel like an ice cream headache. is that what it feels like?

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  291. “No one can take an idea away from you, so you should be quite content no matter how things turn out”

    This is the key to understanding Fail-a-lot.

    He will always be content. He is giving out his best advice -the words he lives by.

    felipe (6100bc)

  292. I’ve been looking at the Obamacare issues today, having foolishly signed up to make a presentation on it. As of today, not a single person has been able to sign up in the State of Alaska; and all of those website issues you’ve been hearing about–it’s because the government website doesn’t just take you to a screen where you can compare policies, like you’ve been told. Instead, it forces you to input all of your personal information and then calculates what subsidy you qualify for–all to avoid sticker shock.

    rochf (f3fbb0)

  293. Obama abuses his power and the office. He was sworn in, hand on the Bible, to uphold the Constitution. If he chooses to default on our bonded debt, he should be impeached.

    Colonel Haiku (aa8ee9)

  294. You are simply an imbecile.

    Careful or steve wil label you a hater.

    Comment by Tlaloc (24a3

    Statements of fact do not reflect hate. Stating you are an imbecile is based on observation, experience, and your bizarro worldview completely divorced from reality.

    JD (35bf64)

  295. “Already won it, now I’m just watching you squirm on the horrible cognitive dissonance you got going on”

    This is his idea, it cannot be taken away.

    felipe (6100bc)

  296. Right because when republicans were championing the heritage plan that would become the PPACA

    Evidence, please. From this decade perhaps?

    JD (35bf64)

  297. Statements of fact do not reflect hate.

    I would have thought that but a lot of you start frothing at the mouth at the merest mention of facts. I believe the term you used for facts was aggressive dishonesty.

    *shrug*

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  298. More victory mincing… lol, he’s a piece of work.

    Colonel Haiku (aa8ee9)

  299. This is his idea, it cannot be taken away.

    You need to learn the difference between an idea and an observation.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  300. If he chooses to default on our bonded debt, he should be impeached.

    I’l say it again: it’s like watching a wiley coyote cartoon.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  301. rochf, the insurance exchange websites are not about helping anyone buy insurance.

    Obamacare is not about providing anyone with health care.

    This is just what they had to lie about. Along with lowering your premiums, keeping your doctor…

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  302. Evidence, please. From this decade perhaps?

    Sorry but of course you know this decade is the one where you hate the mandate, last decade was the one where you loved it.

    Hey! I guess that means next decade you’ll like it again. Cool beans.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  303. Seriously, Flailoc, would it kill you to take a shower?

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  304. Seriously, Flailoc, would it kill you to take a shower?

    Steve we’ve moved on from your need to personally attack those with superior knowledge. We’re onto the right’s amazing hypocrisy wrt ACA. Try to keep up, champ.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  305. It’s hard what with my eyes watering like this.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  306. last decade was the one where you loved it.

    You should be a Leto provide evidence that we championed this issue. You can’t, so you won’t.

    I guess the new metric is that any idea from any ideological think tank is attributed to a political party in perpetuity. This is one of the silliest most dishonest memes you have pushed, falalala.

    JD (5c1832)

  307. http://www.pisgahinn.com/dinner.htm

    My eyes are watering so bad I can’t spot the gub’mint freebie I’m normally addicted to as a hypocritical small gub’mint conservative.

    Could you order it for me, Flailoc?

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  308. Dumbass commie, too thick-skulled to realize that the conversation has turned away from Simpson-Bowles based policy talk to going well beyond Sequester cuts, which is right in conservatives’ wheelhouse. Now, chew on that and do a victory mince. Should be worth a chuckle or three.

    Colonel Haiku (a6bc62)

  309. and it’s Wil E., not Wiley…

    Colonel Haiku (a6bc62)

  310. Another troll minces in…

    Colonel Haiku (a6bc62)

  311. I guess the new metric is that any idea from any ideological think tank is attributed to a political party in perpetuity. This is one of the silliest most dishonest memes you have pushed, falalala.

    Please. This idea by one think tank was the main accomplishment of your last presidential candidate and was heavily championed at the time by another presidential candidate for the right in 2012 (Gingrinch). It was the basis of your alternative to hillarycare, not just some random policy paper no one read.

    Can’t run away from your history, sorry. I don’t blame you for trying, I guess.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  312. and it’s Wil E., not Wiley…

    actually if we’re getting picky it’s “Wile E”

    PS when trying to show someone up by correcting a trivial detail it helps to get said detail right.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  313. That was pathetic, falalala.

    JD (5c1832)

  314. 316. …It was the basis of your alternative to hillarycare, not just some random policy paper no one read.

    Can’t run away from your history, sorry. I don’t blame you for trying, I guess.

    Comment by Tlaloc (24a34f) — 10/15/2013 @ 4:15 pm

    I’ve been trying to deal with this guy with all the seriousness his thoughtful insights deserve.

    Looks like I’ll have to throttle back on the seriousness.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  315. Here’s how serious about all this our nitwit president is:

    “#Breaking: Obama says he would veto debt-ceiling legislation if it includes provision cutting health subsidies for congressional officials.”

    — POLITICO Oct. 15, 2013

    Colonel Haiku (a6bc62)

  316. Campd was yet another imdw.

    JD (5c1832)

  317. Moronic, as are his mincing followers.

    Colonel Haiku (a6bc62)

  318. Like I said, Obama seems to be serious about teaching the right a lesson this time. Personally I doubt they can learn it. Instead I expect weeks of “backstabbed by the establishment” rhetoric.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  319. Well there is the ruling class, then everyone else,
    Michel’s Iron Law explains it,

    narciso (3fec35)

  320. “This idea by one think tank was the main accomplishment of your last presidential candidate”

    Tlaloc – Yes, the resemblance of Obamacare to Romneycare is uncanny! Under Romneycare in Massachusetts, half of the people without health insurance purchased it on the open market and the other half were offered it by employers.

    Contrast that to the dislocations we are seeing from federally-mandated Obamacare. Employers are cancelling spousal insurance coverage and reducing expansion plans to remain below the 50 employee threshold where mandatory insurance coverage is required. Employers are also reducing employee hours to make sure they qualify as part-time rather than full-time employees and hiring new employees only on a part-time basis.

    Absolutely uncanny the resemblances, don’t you think?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  321. You’re actually afraid to read an honest article about Obamacare, aren’t you, Tlaloc? I mean one that is non partisan and one that deals with reality right now, not wishes and hopes from three years ago.

    Talk about yer epistemic closure. Here it is again in case you get brave and decide to put on your big boy pants and emerge from your bubble for ten minutes.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-14/obamacare-needs-a-drop-dead-date.html

    elissa (3961c8)

  322. elissa I read it and responded to it after you first mentioned it.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  323. elissa post 245 if you want to see.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  324. Bool Chit you did.

    elissa (3961c8)

  325. Tlaloc,

    I think we’re all still recovering from the shock that you claim to be almost 40 years old, yet you still believe in childish things. (Don’t feel too badly, after all, Baracky is 52 years old !)
    I still envision you hanging around the cute baristas at your local Starbucks, trying to impress them with your new Skechers shoes and the fact that you have a bootleg copy of a Green Day concert.
    And what 19 year old barista wouldn’t be impressed by your new tattoo of a dragon on your upper arm, as you clutch your dog-eared copy of Howard Zinn’s ‘A People’s History of the United States’ ?

    Free health care ! Cesar Chavez Day !
    Or something !

    All of your Alinskyite tactics of conflating labels and definitions so that Ted Cruz becomes a Bolshevik, Barack Obama becomes right-of-center, and Miley Cyrus becomes the modern day equivalent to Doris Day or Rosemary Clooney is rather entertaining.

    However, I still must compare you to a car crash; your wheels are spinning, but you’re upside down.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  326. Absolutely uncanny the resemblances, don’t you think?

    The fundamentals are the same, that employers decided to respond to them differently is not particularly important.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  327. Bool Chit you did.

    I gave you the post number.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  328. “You need to learn the difference between an idea and an observation”

    This is his idea, it cannot be taken away. He will be content no matter how it turns out.

    felipe (6100bc)

  329. I still envision you hanging around the cute baristas at your local Starbucks, trying to impress them with your new Skechers shoes and the fact that you have a bootleg copy of a Green Day concert.

    If you like, of course at some point you might want to deal with reality instead of your imaginary world.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  330. “The fundamentals are the same, that employers decided to respond to them differently is not particularly important.”

    Tlaloc – R.U.SERIOUS?

    Complete Fail.

    Hahahahahahaha!!!!!11ty!!!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  331. All of your Alinskyite tactics of conflating labels and definitions so that Ted Cruz becomes a Bolshevik, Barack Obama becomes right-of-center

    I didn’t say Cruz was a Bolshevik, merely that there’s a certain similarity in that both don’t care about actual results only that they follow their ideology and of course both attack anyone who sees things differently rather zealously. Not my fault your mancrush has a lot in common with hardcore communists.

    As for Obama, his record is very clearly centerish bordering on center right. His platform has been seamless with Bush’s. He’s continued the war on terror, not closed guantanamo, continued the civil rights invasions bush started, continued both the surge and the TARP program started under bush, enacted a republican health care policy. Perhaps more interesting is all the stuff he didn’t do. He didn’t push gay marriage until it became obvious the populous wanted it, he didn’t push a national repeal of right to work, didn’t push amnesty, didn’t push to stop the execrable voucher movement, and on and on. The left has gotten very little from Obama because he’s not a lefty and never has been. He’s a centrist very much in the model of DLC politicians like CLinton (of course you ridiculously call him far left too!).

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  332. This is how you deal with our prize troll:

    In this story, a prince goes insane and believes that he is a rooster (or a tlaloc.) He takes off his clothes, sits naked under the table, and pecks at his food on the floor. The king and queen are horrified that the heir to the throne is acting this way. They call in various sages and healers to try and convince the prince to act human again, but to no avail. Then a new wise man comes to the palace and claims he can cure the prince. He takes off his clothes and sits naked under the table with him, claiming to be a rooster, too. Gradually the prince comes to accept him as a friend. The sage then tells the prince that a rooster can wear clothes, eat at the table, etc. The Rooster Prince accepts this idea and, step-by-step, begins to act normally, until he is completely cured.

    Any volunteers?

    felipe (6100bc)

  333. Tlaloc – R.U.SERIOUS?

    Complete Fail.

    Okay so add fundamentals vs incidentals to the list of things you need to brush up on.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  334. On a side note, Glenn Greenwald has really big plans.

    “My partnership with The Guardian has been extremely fruitful and fulfilling: I have high regard for the editors and journalists with whom I worked and am incredibly proud of what we achieved,” Greenwald said in an emailed statement. “The decision to leave was not an easy one, but I was presented with a once-in-a-career dream journalistic opportunity that no journalist could possibly decline.”

    Hm.

    Dana (6178d5)

  335. Ohole will own this clusterfluck.
    Drill Baby Drill

    mg (31009b)

  336. His responses are nothing but empty fluff, elissa. Don’t even bother. He’s a fluffer.

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  337. Fitch Ratings put the US government’s “AAA” credit rating on ‘rating watch negative’ Tuesday, saying that the standstill on the U.S. debt ceiling negotiations risks undermining the effectiveness of the country’s government and political institutions.

    U.S. stock index futures fell.

    “Although Fitch continues to believe that the debt ceiling will be raised soon, the political brinkmanship and reduced financing flexibility could increase the risk of a U.S. default,” the rating agency wrote in a statement.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101093033

    100% GOP owned.

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  338. A tlaloc walks into a doctors office with a chicken on his head.

    The doctor asks “can I help you”?

    The chicken says “yeah, could you get this tlaloc off my ass”? – rimshot

    Thanks, folks, tlaloc will be here all week.

    felipe (6100bc)

  339. Something to consider;

    Palin gives bad advice? This is news?

    Tlaloc (24a34f)

  340. It’s more then just epic fail, Colonel, it’s more of a saga,

    narciso (3fec35)

  341. “Okay so add fundamentals vs incidentals to the list of things you need to brush up on.”

    Tlaloc – Okay, explain why if they are so fundamentally similar the reaction and economic impact has been so drastically different. That should be easy for a person of your intellect. Be specific. Impress us with your knowledge, don’t just surrender again.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  342. After having dealt with Flailoc, Howzabout dealing with something worthwhile.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=W7_zdpoQLwM

    I think that’s an Argentinian Air Force trainer.

    It flashes by too fast to tell for sure.

    Whoever it is, when you have to go wheels up because the gear is going it interfere with going for the record in low fly bys, that’s pretty freakin’ b***sy.

    I tossed in the last bit so Flailoc could talk about how angry I am.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  343. Dems are starting to lose it, Putin’s in charge.

    mg (31009b)

  344. “100% GOP owned.”

    Tlaloc – We’ve been over this. You’re backsliding. Obama created this situation.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  345. I can see Tlaloc’s love for the Soviet Gulag from my front porch !

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  346. Tlaloc has more squid ink than Sammy, but a lot less intelligence.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  347. Since the federal government currently retains the “right” to compel American citizens to purchase a product against their will, can we get a couple of hospital orderlies over here to force this Tlaloc person to buy a clue ?

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  348. SPQR @ #203 Is the thread winner, I think.

    felipe (6100bc)

  349. felipe, really ?

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  350. What do I like most about NATO?

    The paella.

    Steve57 (1cc639)

  351. LOL, ES, yes. Tell me your thread winner. I am honestly curious.

    felipe (6100bc)

  352. Anyone paying attention to events knows we are here because Obama and the Democrats broke their word from the last debt ceiling negotiations. They broke their promise to make spending cuts, the sequester limits kicked in (the sequester being Obama’s proposal) and now the Democrats are trying to remove the sequester limits without making spending cuts they promised more than two years ago.

    Bottom line: Obama’s word is worthless.

    SPQR (768505)

  353. Comment by Dana (6178d5) — 10/15/2013 @ 4:57 pm

    His new news site will have a full staff. Glenn Greenwald, Rick Ellers, Thomas Ellersberg, the cabana boy …

    SPQR (768505)

  354. President MomPants has changed the avatar on his official White House twitter account to look like something that Hamas or Hezbollah might use.

    http://twitchy.com/2013/10/15/barackobama-threat-level-red-trots-out-endthisnow-with-creepy-terrorist-avatar/

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  355. The Puffington Host, rarely dissapoints, by that I mean always;

    CORRECTION: An earlier version of this story indicated that the Berlin Wall was built by Nazi Germany. In fact, it was built by the Communists during the Cold War.

    narciso (3fec35)

  356. Oh God, what it is it with asinine dolts masquerading as reporters? Shouldn’t there be a quota system because surely the limit has been met and surpassed…

    If this wasn’t staged, which would be shameful enough, then Tommy Christopher is simply Dumber Than a Sackful of Andrews… (or whatever it is…)

    During Tuesday’s White House briefing on Tuesday, Christopher, whose name isn’t really “Tommy Christopher,” asked a question about President Barack Obama’s health-care reform law that incorporated his personal experiences with health insurance after his 2010 heart attack.

    “First of all, I don’t if you’re aware of this, but when I had a heart attack three years ago, I was uninsured, and I haven’t been able to get insurance ever since then,” Christopher said. “Listening to all the pressure on the president to negotiate, a lot of it from inside this room, it made me think, is there a chance the president would be willing to delay Obamacare for a year if Republicans were to agree to delay heart attacks for a year?”

    White House press secretary Jay Carney offered the obligatory Obama administration response.

    “Tommy, you know the president’s position is that we need to implement the Affordable Care Act, and that when it comes to the millions of Americans across the country who have had a very hard time getting access to affordable health insurance, we need to focus on those folks and continue the business of implementing the Affordable Care Act so that on Jan. 1 those Americans will be able to purchase insurance, quality insurance at affordable rates for the first time,” Carney replied.

    Carney went on to ask Christopher if his question had been answered, to which Christopher replied with yet another personal anecdote about Obamacare.

    “Just for what it’s worth, I was able to enroll in the exchange about a week and a half ago,” Christopher said. “I haven’t picked a plan yet, though.”

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/15/mediaites-christopher-asks-dumbest-question-in-history-of-white-house-press-briefings-video/#ixzz2hqBJ8xqS

    Dana (6178d5)

  357. Got Dictator?

    felipe (6100bc)

  358. narciso, they must use Tlaloc as a fact checker.

    SPQR (768505)

  359. Dana, I proposed replacing “Dumber than a sack of Andrews” with “Dumber than a sack of Tlaloc” recently.

    But only because you and I are among the remaining half dozen who remember the reference.

    SPQR (768505)

  360. To explain why Dana’s quote shows how stupid the question is, the delay of the individual mandate would not by itself keep Christopher from buying insurance …. that he still hasn’t bought by his own choice.

    SPQR (768505)

  361. I remember, SPQR. Someone even used it, albeit with an “s” at the end.

    felipe (6100bc)

  362. I wouldn’t be skipping Tlaloc’s responses on the latter part of this thread if he would be honest and sincere and attempt genuine discourse.

    I am happy when someone from the left comes here and presents their arguments and reasonable discussion can follow. It’s good to be open to learning from others, strain the crap, and see what comes to the top.

    However, Tlaloc (I should address this to you directly as I hate it when people talk about other people here and that person is in the ‘room’ too)… just continues to spout company lines and doesn’t appear to critically think about what is presented. It’s boring and a waste of time. And clearly, Tlaloc, you are not interested in an honest and robust discussion.

    So, there’s that.

    Dana (6178d5)

  363. I had him at 1;22, because he is so mendacious,

    narciso (3fec35)

  364. I confess that I am not of the half dozen who remember the origin, though.

    felipe (6100bc)

  365. So, is it all Tlaloc, all the time now?

    Pious Agnostic (ac89e5)

  366. Why you good people engage in pigwrestling, is beyond me – even if I did join in a little.

    felipe (6100bc)

  367. Oh, I hope not, Pious.

    felipe (6100bc)

  368. I think the prize troll is “off the clock” now.

    felipe (6100bc)

  369. Please forgive me, I am going to make ten quick comments just to see my wretched name in the recent comments window. It’s just my way of “mugging in front of the camera”

    Maybe I can start an internet craze like “planking” or something.

    I promise not to do this again.

    felipe (6100bc)

  370. Meanwhile, they have let Anas Al Libi into the country,

    narciso (3fec35)

  371. Waaa! “you are posting comment too quickly, slow down” curses, foiled by the powers that be!

    felipe (6100bc)

  372. Well, it was fun while it lasted.

    felipe (6100bc)

  373. Tlaloc got called away because a Kos diarist went off the reservation.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  374. I love it!

    “I am canceling insurance for us and I am not paying any fucking penalty. What the hell kind of reform is this?”

    And this.

    “I really do appreciate the helpful comments. Peace all. Peace out”.

    felipe (6100bc)

  375. Dana – way to beat me to the punch.

    JD (35bf64)

  376. I saw that Ag80 and noted there were quite a number of commenters that doubted his sincerity and were suspicions that he was a plant…. then I wondered if that is what we sound like? I hope not.

    Hysterical, low-information broadside attacks like this sound trollish to me.

    Could be a sleeper.

    fyi, a close friend who is a Kaiser doc said to expect their rates to go way up. They have to.

    Dana (6178d5)

  377. I’m getting far off track. But history is kind of complicated.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (37a793)

    Don’t know much about history
    Don’t know much biology
    Don’t know much about a science book
    Don’t know much about the French I took

    But I do know that I love to type
    And I know that my opinion’s ripe
    and a Sammy’s World this must be

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  378. The Dodgers won last night, JD, I’m pumped!

    Dana (6178d5)

  379. Can’t type this
    Can’t type this
    Can’t type this
    Can’t type this

    My, my, my musings hit me so hard
    Makes me say “Oh my Lord”
    Thank you for blessing me
    With a mind to rhyme and two fast hands
    It feels good, when you know you’re da mans

    A super dope homeboy from the Borough Park
    And I’m known as such
    And this is a post, uh, that you can’t touch

    I told you homeboy ( can’t type this)
    Yeah, that’s how we living and you know (can’t type this)
    Look at my hands, man (You can’t type this)
    yo while I bust the funky cut n’ paste (can’t type this)

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  380. SammyTime

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  381. “Although Fitch continues to believe that the debt ceiling will be raised soon, the political brinkmanship and reduced financing flexibility could increase the risk of a U.S. default,” the rating agency wrote in a statement.

    100% GOP owned.

    Comment by Tlaloc (24a34f) — 10/15/2013 @ 5:02 pm

    It is the Democrats who have refused to negotiate anything at all with the House. They’ve made that clear from day one.

    Gerald A (130406)

  382. Dana, JD: I’m not surprised. I did a quick scan of the thread and missed it.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  383. Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 10/15/2013 @ 3:37 pm

    Certainly.

    David Horowitz points out that “the issue is never the issue, getting power is the issue”.

    http://www.horowitzfreedomcenter.org/_the_threat_we_face_by_david_horowitz

    Heaven on Earth for President Obama would be to have control of the House and Senate again so he can pass any thing he wants, so assume all efforts by him and the Dems until Nov. 2014 is about the elections.

    Hard for people who are even only sometimes honest to grasp who they are dealing with when up against a hard core leftist.

    The challenge is to keep one’s soul while trying to defeat Alinsky’s heritage.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  384. You would think they would have some shame, the Morning Joke show, I mean;

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2013/10/14/morning-joe-cant-stand-gingrich-welcomes-radical-bomber-bill-ayers-who-h

    narciso (3fec35)

  385. Issa to vote for clean c r bill.
    Need I say more than
    traitor.

    mg (31009b)

  386. You guys just don’t get it; when President MomPants says he’s not going to negotiate because he won the election, that means that Republicans who say, “hey, let’s negotiate !” are the authoritarian fascist dictators.

    Or something.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  387. It is the Democrats who have refused to negotiate anything at all with the House. They’ve made that clear from day one.
    Comment by Gerald A (130406) — 10/15/2013 @ 6:19 pm

    Indeed, the number of times the one, someone else in the WH, or Reid used the phrase “will not negotiate” doesn’t really approach the number of the national debt, but one would like to think so.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  388. “then I wondered if that is what we sound like? I hope not”.

    I read many of the comments as well, Dana, and I thought there was a small similarity. Particularly how some were defending the diarist as some would defend a longtime commenter here -which was nice to see. I did not think there was anything egregious in the comments that I read. your quote was prolly the most severe

    The main contrast, though, was the length and depth of the comments, or lack of, I should say.

    felipe (6100bc)

  389. Bill Ayers was just a guy in the neighborhood !

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  390. Actually, no, we were not deluded about any of these policies, maybe we were too optimistic that we would succeed but that is something different,

    narciso (3fec35)

  391. “issue is never the issue… revolution is the issue.”

    Colonel Haiku (45091a)

  392. On “Morning Joe,” Mark Halperin and Mika Brz^&*(*&^ski forgot to ask Bill Ayers how he managed to get so many facts wrong about Barack when he wrote Barack’s memoir.
    I mean, didn’t he give it to Barack to proof-read prior to publication ?

    No worries, ‘cuz Bill is ‘da bomb.
    Or something.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  393. “People are surprised I am Russian comic. We have comics in Russia – uh, they’re all dead….”
    – Yakov Smirnoff

    felipe (6100bc)

  394. Tla-la-la-la-la-tla-la-la-lac
    Possibly but since there’s no reasonable argument for obama causing the default it’s a moot point.
    — If the Executive Branch defaults on our debt payments, that’s the fault of the Chief Executive.

    it’s a moot point, lew has said he simply doesn’t have the ability to prioritize payments.
    — And that’s a LIE. From the Treasury Department website: ‘The Secretary is responsible for MANAGING THE PUBLIC DEBT.’

    Remember when the one black republican congressman wasn’t invited to the MLK celebration? Never actually happened.
    — What never happened was the claim that he wasn’t invited at all (psst, he’s a Senator, not a congressman).

    Remember when the IRS targetted just conservatives? Never actually happened.
    — Liberal absolutist bullsh*t. NOBODY claimed that the IRS was exclusively targeting (or “targetting”) conservatives.

    Remember when Romney was going to win a blow out? You guessed it- never actually happened.
    — One or two recognizable conservatives making the claim does NOT make it a “meme”.

    P.S. supply side economics has also be debunked thoroughly. You’re only 30 years out of date on that topic.
    — *siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggghhhhh*

    And FYI, no I’m not. I didn’t vote for him in either election. (No, I didn’t vote for the republican either of course).
    — Waste of vote, waste of space, waste of our time . . .

    What part of FIFO queue is opaque to you?
    — The part where Lew is powerless to change it, Skeezix.

    [Obama is] a centrist bordering on center right.
    — This is as stupid as it gets.

    Which direct question did you want me to answer?
    — Go back to the “Barack Obama Was Right!” thread and respond to the challenges there.

    In fact quantifiably so. It’s not for nothing that 2008-2012 was referred to as Bush’s third term.
    — Quantify away! Please to list the right/center-right policies of Obama’s first term. GO!

    Effectively conservatives have marginalized themselves by insisting on things that are non-starters.
    — They’ve “marginalized themselves” AND they’re wholly responsible for the sequester, the shutdown & the looming default SIMULTANEOUSLY?

    That’s why the NSA thing never shocked me, it was the obvious end result of Bush’s wireless wiretapping program which the dems ceased fighting when Obama became the nominee.
    — OR, those on the far left (psst, this includes Obama) have ALWAYS wanted to spy on citizens for the purpose of controlling them.

    except the actual demands were a defunding if not repeal of obamacare. You don’t get to rewrite history like that, JVW.
    — The one-year delay for the individual mandate is on the table. You don’t get to pretend that it’s not.

    More to the point you seem to be suggesting a person should force their neighbors to reveal their political persuasions.
    — NO ONE is ‘suggesting’ this.

    Read Cruz. He still wants defunding.
    — GOOD!!!

    Notice the house plan got pulled precisely because the things Boehner was asking for weren’t enough, exactly like I said.
    — GOOD!!!!!

    There’s a very fundamental difference between a church and a hospital run by a church. The former has a right to religious liberty, the latter has not. The latter gets regulated like any other business. If the church finds that t negatively impact their religion they are of course free to sell the business off.
    — And so, once again for the eleventyeth time, we’re back to the ‘businesses aren’t people’ argument. I think your record’s stuck.

    Religion is not a get out of jail free card, you still have to obey the law. And it has always been this way.
    — And the lawmakers have always (or WERE always) been constrained by the 1st Amendment.

    Guess what Cruz is still saying? The exact same thing, he wants the house to “stand strong” even as he refuses to raise his own hand.
    — He has and is raising his own hand; and you have NO proof to the contrary.

    Actually I think you’d find a lot more similarities between the bolsheviks and people like cruz than you’d like to admit. The key feature is not the particular ideology but the insistence on the ideology, whatever it is, before all other concerns. And of course the labelling as enemies anyone who isn’t in full throated agreement.
    — Some would characterize it as ‘standing on one’s principles’; you know the ones I’m talking about, the kind that avoid typing double-l’s all over the place.

    Perhaps the best thing to come out of this whole fiasco is objective proof that conservatives are deeply wed to freebies.
    — Of which, you cannot name a single one.

    Icy (68b17a)

  395. Opposing the Vietnam War at the time had its merits, but thinking the people of South Vietnam and the rest of SE Asia was better off after the US left and the Communists took over in the aftermath of what happened is indefensible, IMO.

    And if Harry Reid wants to talk about anarchists wanting to destroy the government, Mr. Ayers is a better example than any Tea Party member.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  396. True, I suppose but there’s a reason why he and Doehrn and company, went down to Cuba for training, like the Brigate Rossi did with Czechoslavakia or elements of the RAF did in Lebanon,

    narciso (3fec35)

  397. Thanks, Icy, where were you (I’m useless) when we needed you ? Steve57 did his best, but I think it was his cleaning lady using his username again while he was out.

    felipe (6100bc)

  398. Comment by Icy (68b17a) — 10/15/2013 @ 6:36 pm

    You’re a better man than I, Gunga Din!

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  399. Dummerer than a sack of Andrews

    Picture me taking a bow.

    JD (35bf64)

  400. narciso, I doubt we disagree at all on this,
    I just started out giving Ayers the only reasonable point he has, that at the time of the Vietnam War one could be reasonable in opposing it (though perhaps actually mistaken about many of the issues involved),
    but there was nothing reasonable in trying to blow up the government,
    and there is nothing reasonable about having such a view of the outcome of the war, if one knows history.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  401. “Except that a lot of people didn’t know that.”

    229. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/15/2013 @ 2:44 pm

    Sammy – I find it hard to worry about people who don’t know things, don’t you?

    People who care who is going to win elections need to pay attention.

    Sammy Finkelman (cf6d93)

  402. What are the odds that Obama could refuse to honor the debt limit by either:
    1) imposing some EO to raise the credit limit
    or
    2) refusing to prioritize spending, hence going into default
    and still have the support of the Dems in the Senate and withstand impeachment?

    I bet he could.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  403. the problem is as Van Jones has said, ‘drop the radical pose’ direct action anywhere South of the Equator had rarely succeeded, in fact it was the pretext for military rule being imposed as in Uruquay, or continuing as in Chile,

    narciso (3fec35)

  404. 233. Comment by elissa (3961c8) — 10/15/2013 @ 2:49 pm

    It sounds like you did set him straight about this, though, right, Sammy?

    I did set her straight a little bit about this and her feelimngs weren’t so strong. She had on the television in the background. She wanted to know how I knew that Obama didn’t have to do all that he did in the shutdown, and the bills that passed.

    I said I would send her an e-mail about what’s going on, but I cut and pasted something I wrote and I think it’s all over her head. I don’t explain what a sequester is etc. She was tsaying also something about people losing money in 4091(k)s.

    Each little bit helps, I think. And maybe now your friend will tell a few other people

    I don’t think she understands well enough to correct anyone else. I think she’s willing to accept that what I say is a possibility. I mean, it’s just my say-so that Obama is making things worse on purpose and there are these one-house bills. Would you accept that as final just because somebody said something like that?

    It might be caused in part what she heard at work. somebody had a bad opinion of Boehner.

    Sammy Finkelman (cf6d93)

  405. 343. I’m behind and kinda slow but giggled irrepressibly at that one. No I don’t drink.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  406. Oh, 384&5 are masterful, I love that song.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  407. 235. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/15/2013 @ 2:50 pm

    Sammy – I can’t really control the number of liberals who are uninformed about the racist history of the Democrat party, Obama’s history of hanging out with terrorists and communists, the origin of Planned Parenthood as an organization for population control of undesirable elements of our citizenry, the fact that JFK was killed by a communist and RFK by a Palestinian.

    Well, anyway, she’s not that kind of an “educated” liberal, and I don’t think she ever liked Obama. Half of these things don’t matter anyway.

    The problem here is new misinformation.

    Otherwise I would drive myself nuts worrying about stuff.

    I would say it’s a slow worry. You can imagine what people who don’t know anybody must be thinking. The Republicans are about to destroy the economy! And everything good. There’re all aaginst poor people and pretty much everybody else. This is not good.

    Now as events play out in the next few days, impressions are going to correct themselves.

    Sammy Finkelman (cf6d93)

  408. 116. I don’t know that I’ve seen anything but great Ramirez cartoons.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  409. “If Obama really thought there would or cuould be a disaster he would be acting differently. He’s being very stubborn. Over nothing. Or what looks like nothing.”

    He could have gotten an extension of teh debt limit, which is the thing that’s supposed to be dangerous, very easily. he would have just have had to let the fight continue over the continuing resolution. If he’s truly worried, this is not the wasy to act.

    But he or his people are openly saying he’s willing to fight over just about nothing – if this is going to wreck the world economy, would you do it?

    This is from a blogger with the New York Times. He sides with the president and is all critical of the Republicans for fighting over nothing – but really does his defense of the president make any sense?

    If the president really believed a worldwide financial disaster was imminent would he, or should he, do this?

    But instead his concern is to not let the Republicans have a psychological victory. Insist that they accept defeat?

    This guy is drinking the Kool-Aid.

    http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/15/boehners-last-stand/?hp

    But this fight really has nothing to do with the subsidies. It’s all about not walking away empty handed, about Mr. Boehner persuading his Republican members that they forced President Obama to give something up in exchange for not wreaking havoc on the economy.

    And that’s precisely why the president can’t agree to it, even though the impact (for all but Congressional staffers) would be minimal.

    For the sake of the rest of his presidency, and the presidents to come, he has to make it clear that no chamber of Congress can back the White House into a corner by threatening the full faith and credit of the United States. Even a small concession, like ending the Congressional subsidies, would betray that principle.

    Sammy Finkelman (cf6d93)

  410. Its too bad for Dog that something to sign hangs on Boehner’s job as Speaker, which losing would prolly cost Crybaby his seat in ’14.

    History will not be kind to the SCOAMF bastard gay prostitute.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  411. 407. Comment by MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/15/2013 @ 6:55 pm

    What are the odds that Obama could refuse to honor the debt limit by either:

    1) imposing some EO to raise the credit limit
    or

    2) refusing to prioritize spending, hence going into default

    I don’t think he’ll do either. He’s got some oher idea in mind. He wouldn’t try to raise the debt ceiling by EO anyway, he’d just sell unofficial bonds that didn’t carry with them a promise to pay the money back!

    But there’d be some note from the president saying something like: “I’ll try to get it recognized as a debt later, but if I don’t succeed, this is a gift. We will accept money only from people who acknowledge this is a gift to the United States.”

    We know anyway there are another two weeks (till big Social Security payments) and maybe 4 weeks.

    The thing that they are warning about is a failure of a Treasury Department auction to roll over the debt (in which case you couldn’t pay off the old debt even though the debt level didn’t go up much) but that’s not real anyway. I mean Ben Bernanke would call the big banks and make sure somebody bought it.

    Nobody’s going to let that happen, except on purpose.

    Supposing it is real, whose fault would that be? Who’s trying to scare off bond buyers?

    and still have the support of the Dems in the Senate and withstand impeachment?

    Support will last a long time, but before impeachment comes willingness to pass a bill over his veto. Impeachment is more of a moral question.

    You don’t have to think he’s guilty of malfeasance in office to pass a bill over his veto – you just have to think he’s wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (cf6d93)

  412. LeechPorn for feets:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-15/foodstamp-program-shutdown-imminent

    The bid by CGI for the Federal ACA website was the only one HHS entertained.

    It would seem that the USDA had inside information:

    http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2013/10/boom-this-shutdown-was-orchestrated-and.html

    The mailboy in the Cincinnati IRS bowels has a lot of ‘splainin’ to do.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  413. Tlaloc:
    If I make you angry are you really sure I’m the one taking myself too seriously?
    — Do you take yourself seriously at all? If so, then guess what . . .

    So you think having a personal religion should exempt any business , hell any partnership or endeavor of any type, from any laws you happen to feel like saying violate your religion?
    — “Free exercise of . . .”

    His actions make perfect sense if you first posit that he’s a subscriber of the unitary executive view of the presidency like so many on the right (right up until they lost the whitehouse, of course).
    — For which you will provide copious documented examples . . . or not.

    Further there’s every reason to think the right will take the brunt of the political fallout and even a colorable argument that the right needs such a backlash to recover from their current madness.
    — Things ‘need’ to get worse before they can get better; blah blah blah.

    Obama is acting like someone who tried for years to reach out to republicans only to be reviled by them in the most obscene terms. At some point you just stop trying.
    — Not if you’re truly interested in governing, you don’t. And you’re correct about the ‘acting’ part, since he hasn’t really “tried” to reach out, let alone actually done it.

    I suspect if you did you’d conveniently leave out the southern realignment where those same racists, by and large, left for the GOP who welcomed them with open arms…
    — Which took place in that magical year of . . . ?

    There is a nice karma aspect to the exchange launch going badly- it disproportionately affects republicans since the only people using the federal exchange are people in states with republican government which rejects creating their own.
    — And the ratio of Democrats to Republicans in these states is WHAT? And the ratio of Democrats to Republicans that are applying attempting to apply for Obamacare in EVEN these ‘red’ states is WHAT?
    WHY do you want poor liberals (because they’re ALL poor in red states, right?) to suffer, Tlaloc?

    As they say you deserve the government you vote for.
    — Yes, you do.

    loosely translated “unitary executive” means a republican president can do anything he wants while a dem president can do nothing…
    — Loosely (or ‘loselly’) translated, your definition is gibberish.

    Obamacare was a huge reach out to the right.
    — From ‘no fed control’ to ‘full fed control’. I feel like I need a reach-around on this one.
    He didn’t try to pass single payer. He didn’t try to pass a government option.
    — “It was only left, not FAR left!”
    Nope he pushed hard against his own party to pass a plan from that well known lefty group Heritage.
    — Some ‘pushing’! They ALL voted for it.
    And said plan was modeled on the plan enacted by that hardcore communist Romney, you know the guy you just ran for president.
    — Not me, bubba.

    Now guess why even the people in your own party don’t take you conservatives seriously.
    — Oh, I can promise you, the Tea Party DOES take us seriously.

    Right because when republicans were championing the heritage plan that would become the PPACA they knew it would be a disaster. Wait no, I mean you only learned your policy was a disaster when it was put into actual practice. wait no. What you are saying is on no account should anyone ever enact policy that comes from righty think tanks. Dammit that’s not it either. what is it you are saying?
    — Your confusion is duly noted . . . and repetitive.

    Icy (68b17a)

  414. 365. Comment by SPQR (768505) — 10/15/2013 @ 5:39 pm

    To explain why Dana’s quote shows how stupid the question is, the delay of the individual mandate would not by itself keep Christopher from buying insurance …. that he still hasn’t bought by his own choice.

    No pre-existing cnditions is already law, isn’t it? No, only for those under 19.

    The postponement of Obamacare would also I think postpone that. Every effective date would be postponed.

    Of course the thing to bear in mind is that certainties are not insurance. Theer are better ways to subsidize situations like that. This way is actually the most regressive.

    Sammy Finkelman (cf6d93)

  415. I know some peoples might wonder what possesses anyone to live butt against the Dakotas in the very center of the continent on the tectonically inert Canadian craton.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-15/radioactivetyphoonado-watch-once-decade-storm-batters-fukushima

    We have our reasons.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  416. “I know some peoples might wonder what possesses anyone to live butt against the Dakotas in the very center of the continent on the tectonically inert Canadian craton.”

    Between this and Sammy, can somebody interpret? Sorry gary.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  417. Que, I don’t see the connection, gary.

    narciso (3fec35)

  418. Maybe it’s a reference to fracking?

    narciso (3fec35)

  419. Gary is contrasting the dangerous geographical location of Tokyo with the safe location of the Dakotas.

    Sammy is a whole ‘nuther story.

    felipe (6100bc)

  420. 424. Thank you felipe.

    Ace on Tlaloc’s infidelities:

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/344165.php

    Last default of a week or more, 1979. What a coincidence!

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  421. Tlaloc:
    Sorry but of course you know this decade is the one where you hate the mandate, last decade was the one where you loved it.
    — And WHO among the regular commenters here has expressed their ‘love’ for the proposed individual mandate from the “last decade”? (assuming that you mean the 90’s, not the 00’s)

    This idea by one think tank was the main accomplishment of your last presidential candidate and was heavily championed at the time by another presidential candidate for the right in 2012 (Gingrinch). It was the basis of your alternative to hillarycare, not just some random policy paper no one read.
    — What WOULD we do without people like you coming along to explain why “Republican” and “conservative” are NOT synonymous? How else would we know?

    Like I said, Obama seems to be serious about teaching the right a lesson this time.
    — He certainly isn’t serious about doing what’s best for the country. POLITICS BEFORE PEOPLE!

    [Obama] didn’t push a national repeal of right to work
    — How, exactly, would “a national repeal of right to work” uh, work? Does he simply sign an Executive Order declaring all states rights to be null & void?

    didn’t push to stop the execrable voucher movement
    — Well, this should be amusing (for a second, anyway). WHY is the voucher ‘movement’ “execrable”?

    Icy (68b17a)

  422. Thanks, Icy, where were you (I’m useless) when we needed you?
    Comment by felipe (6100bc) — 10/15/2013 @ 6:42 pm

    — Playing Beatles songs on the acoustic, and Kiss songs on the electric.

    You’re a better man than I, Gunga Din!
    Comment by MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/15/2013 @ 6:45 pm

    — Thank you, fan!

    Icy (68b17a)

  423. Under consideration, fisking teh Sammy.

    Not sure yet of what type of tool I will attempt to employ in the effort. Right now it’s a toss-up between Magic 8-Ball, two-headed buffalo nickel, or a D-20 from my old D&D days.

    Icy (68b17a)

  424. When every horrible political thing that has ever happened happens every day, at some point, you just stopped listening.

    I’m not saying a government default would be good. It would be bad. What I am saying is that no one has any idea anymore about what difficulty means. Living life hurts and no government program will ever make that better.

    Hurt is not losing your EBT limit, nor implementing Obamacare.

    It is living through a depression, as my grandparents and parents did as well as WWII or the Cold War or Viet Nam. Or Katrina or Sandy or Carla or Northridge or San Francisco or the influenza outbreak.

    What everyone has to decide is: Can I make it through hard times on my own or do I need the government to help me make it through a hard time?

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  425. very true, seeing as how he’s a centrist bordering on center right. That’s not why I didn’t vote for him though, unlike you guys I am fully cognizant that my views are not in the american mainstream. — Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc)

    Damn. That means you’re an ultra-ultra-liberal.

    I personally feel wary about extremists like you — and, admittedly, of ultra-conservatives too — since you make me think of someone afflicted with an ideological version of psychosis, or someone suffering from a combination of severe kleptomania, alcoholism and pedophilia. I know that sounds flippant, but quite honestly and sincerely, whenever I detect extremism in a person, I become very suspicious of him or her.

    Mark (58ea35)

  426. Nobody disputes the House’s perogative on revenue bills, but it doesn’t get any greater say in a final product for being the body of origin.

    As Churchill noted, “Being right is seldom enough.” In politics in the Information Age, perception doesn’t trump reality, it becomes reality. Now, sure, we can shut down the government and refuse to authorize a debt ceiling hike. We have that power and that right.

    And voters have the power and the right to punish us, and our cries of, “But we are right!” may count for naught.

    Part of being a conservative is being responsible and thinking things through, considering the likely and foreseeable consequences of a course of action before jumping in with both feet. Again, Cruz and his supporters forced us into an untenable position, an unwinnable fight, and now complain we didn’t win it for them.

    Grow the hell up.

    @43 Comment by Estragon (19fa04) — 10/15/2013 @ 10:17 am

    Things are going to get much rougher Estragon. You may want to close your eyes.

    The President has an approval number of 44%, which is quite stable. Nothing is going to happen there, it is a fairly static number and will likely remain so (a hallmark of partisanship). The congressional Republicans have an approval rating of 5%. That means most Republicans disapprove and are fracturing. It also means make-or-break time.

    You gotta stir things up sometimes, because if not, the status quo will fall short against an adversary with overwhelming advantages (MSM). Better to be at 5% than 35%, otherwise nothing would change, which all but guarantees defeat. A small chance for a big victory is better than a big chance for no victory.

    The last time something like this happened, a new political party was born — the Republican party. They fought against the chains of slavery, which were championed by the Democrat party. The Republicans emerged victorious and the soul of a nation was saved.

    Big moments require big risks.

    The Republican party in 1861 was a coalition of disparate elements. Formed only 7 years earlier, it contained men who had been Whigs, Anti-Slavery Democrats, Free-Soilers, Know-Nothings, and Abolitionists. By the outbreak of the war, these fragments had coalesced into 3 basic factions: conservatives, moderates, and radicals.

    Somethings never really change. Here we go again.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  427. I would hope that the outcome of this is an open Republican split in the house, with the TEAs forming an actual party and refusing to vote for Boehner as speaker. Let the Republicans offer someone else if they want to hold the coalition. Or let the rat-bastards live with Speaker Pelosi for a while.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  428. The flat out for the House is to pass a clean debt limit bill extending things through mid 2014. Dare the Senate and the President to reject it.

    Then keep the government shut down.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  429. Karl Rove wants the republicans to quit before they get further behind.
    What a spineless overweight turd.
    Fox is in the tank for the progressives.

    mg (31009b)

  430. Good morning, have a palate cleanser. http://i.imgur.com/OiUCkKq.jpg

    nk (dbc370)

  431. HAH! Thanks, nk, I needed that.

    felipe (70ff7e)

  432. Flailoc keeps telling me I’m addicted to gub’mint freebies.

    Just not seeing it.

    I asked him to tell me where the gub’mint freebies are on the Cliff House menu. No answer.

    If I were addicted to gub’mint freebies it’d probably involve a flight demonstration team.

    Know what?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vl48C6t3EEE

    Red Bull MiG-17 Demonstration at the Oregon International Air Show

    Back during the cold war the joke was the stall fences were there to prevent the air from defecting to the wing tips. If you have any questions, ask Flailoc. He’s still wearing the t-shirt.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuE2cW8NMx8

    I’ll put on my own g*****n airshow, thank you very much.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHXnQCE0kG0

    Working at the mad backing up skillz at around the 1:30 point

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7u1jzjFL8s

    I could take this thing off across a carrier deck.

    What you could do with it at that point I don’t know. Still, it’d be fun.

    Steve57 (1cc639)


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