Patterico's Pontifications

10/14/2013

Barack Obama Was Right!

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 2:36 pm

Republicans should stand firm on the debt ceiling, and I have drafted a short speech for John Boehner and any other Republican who agrees:

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.

Eloquent, isn’t it?

OK, I lied. I wasn’t the first to say that. Barack Obama was, in March 2006. Thanks to Elephant Stone for the reminder.

In 2011, Jake Tapper wrote about the way then-Official Spokesliar Robert Gibbs attempted to put lipstick on this pig. Here’s Tapper:

In January, I asked then-White House press secretary Robert Gibbs about those comments and that vote, given the president’s belief that the debt ceiling needs to be raised in May.

Gibbs said it was OK for then-Senator Obama to have cast that vote, since the outcome was guaranteed.

“Based on the outcome of that vote…the full faith and credit was not in doubt,” Gibbs said. Then-Sen. Obama used the vote “to make a point about needing to get serious about fiscal discipline….His vote was not necessarily needed on that.” [The vote was 52-48. — Ed]

Imagine me nodding my head and wearing a serious expression.

On Sunday, senior White House adviser David Plouffe revised that explanation.

“He believes that vote was a mistake,” Plouffe told Fox News Sunday.

Now imagine me saying: “Wait, what?”

Anyway, Brad Plumer of the Washington Post has written about what might happen if we failed to raise the debt ceiling in time. Plumer is of the opinion that failing to raise the debt ceiling would be bad, would spook the markets, etc. — but even he acknowledges that the money is there to make bond payments:

Between Oct. 18 and Nov. 15 the government will bring in roughly $222 billion in taxes and owe roughly $328 billion. But it will only need about $35 billion on hand to make interest payments over that time.

I have seen other analyses that say we take in 5.5 times what we need to make interest payments; according to this analysis, for this period of time, we’re taking in over six times what we need. Sure, Treasury claims they don’t have the technological capacity to prioritize payments — but government lies, and Obama people lie a lot. I don’t buy it.

Will some tough choices have to be made? Sure.

Is it better to make those choices sooner rather than later? You betcha.

After all, as a wise man* once said: “Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”

Indeed. So very, very true.

Comments (160)

160 Responses to “Barack Obama Was Right!”

*OK, actually a dishonest cretin, but allow me my rhetorical flourishes, will you?
Patterico (9c670f) — 10/14/2013 @ 2:37 pm
We’ll let you get away with it this time.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 2:53 pm
Do we, or anyone, know if Barack H. Obama even has a checking account that he has to keep balanced; or is he just another Trustafarian, like so many of his Prep/College/University/Law School classmates?
askeptic (b8ab92) — 10/14/2013 @ 2:54 pm
Is it better to make those choices sooner rather than later? You betcha.

What later are you talking about? Deficits have been coming down precipitously the last few years:

http://qz.com/114170/the-us-is-cutting-its-deficit-faster-than-it-ever-has-before/

Look if you want to argue that we should impose steep cuts to the federal government because that’s your philosophy then fine, but don’t pretend you are doing so to prevent some fiscal disaster down the road that the best evidence says is never coming.

And especially don’t make that argument when your manner of causing the cuts is one that the vast majority of knowledgeable people says is playing russian roulette with the economy.
Tlaloc (504b91) — 10/14/2013 @ 2:55 pm
I’m glad to see the group homes let the clinically insane have access to the internet.
Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:00 pm
Tlaloc is still repeating the same falsehoods. Repeating the same misrepresentations we’ve come to expect from Obama defenders.

Dumber than a sack of Tlalocs is the new standard.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:00 pm
Tlaloc is still repeating the same falsehoods. Repeating the same misrepresentations we’ve come to expect from Obama defenders.

You could prove me wrong really quickly by simply citing federal deficit numbers that show it going up instead of down.

Instead it’s just personal attacks. I wonder why it is you don’t use facts? Could it be they don’t support your argument?
Tlaloc (504b91) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:02 pm
Tlaloc, I’ve kicked your ass repeatedly with facts. You just keep inventing new lies.

Boring troll is boring.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:03 pm
Between 2009 and 2012, the federal government recorded the largest budget deficits relative to the size of the economy since 1946, causing federal debt to soar. Federal debt held by the public is now about 73 percent of the economy’s annual output, or gross domestic product (GDP). That percentage is higher than at any point in U.S. history except a brief period around World War II, and it is twice the percentage at the end of 2007. If current laws generally remained in place, federal debt held by the public would decline slightly relative to GDP over the next several years, CBO projects. After that, however, growing deficits would ultimately push debt back above its current high level. CBO projects that federal debt held by the public would reach 100 percent of GDP in 2038, 25 years from now, even without accounting for the harmful effects that growing debt would have on the economy (see the figure below). Moreover, debt would be on an upward path relative to the size of the economy, a trend that could not be sustained indefinitely.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:06 pm
SPQR, don’t get a swelled head. EVERYBODY has repeatedly kicked his ass with facts.

I think my cleaning lady has kicked his ass using my username.
Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:07 pm
CBO projections – with all the limitations that they work under – says that US debt problems not going away.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:07 pm
Steve57, point.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:07 pm
Tlaloc, I’ve kicked your ass repeatedly with facts. You just keep inventing new lies.

*shakes head*
Tlaloc (504b91) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:08 pm
got a link SPQR?
Tlaloc (504b91) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:09 pm
sorry should have specified-
got a link to where your quote comes from, not to your fantasies of using facts.
Tlaloc (504b91) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:09 pm
CBO projections – with all the limitations that they work under – says that US debt problems not going away.

I’ll add debt vs deficit to the list of things you rant a bout constantly but clearly don’t understand.
Tlaloc (504b91) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:10 pm
What later are you talking about? Deficits have been coming down precipitously the last few years:

Good Allah. They are coming down only in comparison to the record setting ones he established right out of the gate.
JD (948ccb) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:12 pm
Nevermind I found your source myself.

From the same source:

Budget Projections for the Next 10 Years

The economy’s gradual recovery from the 2007–2009 recession, the waning budgetary effects of policies enacted in response to the weak economy, and other changes to tax and spending policies have caused the deficit to shrink this year to its smallest size since 2008: roughly 4 percent of GDP, compared with a peak of almost 10 percent in 2009. If current laws governing taxes and spending were generally unchanged—an assumption that underlies CBO’s 10-year baseline budget projections—the deficit would continue to drop over the next few years, falling to 2 percent of GDP by 2015. As a result, by 2018, federal debt held by the public would decline to 68 percent of GDP.

However, budget deficits would gradually rise again under current law, CBO projects, mainly because of increasing interest costs and growing spending for Social Security and the government’s major health care programs (Medicare, Medicaid, the Children’s Health Insurance Program, and subsidies to be provided through health insurance exchanges). CBO expects interest rates to rebound in coming years from their current unusually low levels, sharply raising the government’s cost of borrowing.

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/44521

Got that? Si everything I said was right but if we trust the CBO’s ability to project out more than 5 years in the future deficits may climb back up from a low of 2% of GDP.

This is the train barrelling down on us that we have to kill the economy with a default to prevent?

please.
Tlaloc (504b91) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:19 pm
Tlaloc, Obama already killed the economy. So don’t worry about it.
Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:21 pm
Good Allah. They are coming down only in comparison to the record setting ones he established right out of the gate.

Yes we had a huge recession brdering on a depression and we racked up a big deficit exactly like we should have. That’s how you deal with a recession to offset the damage and give the public sector a chance to regroup.

You should know this.
Tlaloc (504b91) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:21 pm
Tlaloc, Obama already killed the economy. So don’t worry about it.

I know you guys hate this but the recovery has been recovering slowly for some time. I dare say without all the efforts by the right to sabotage it with austerity we’d be in decent shape now.
Tlaloc (504b91) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:22 pm
Obama’s Economic Growth Record Is The Worst In 60 Years

0.8% — The Abysmal Rate of Economic Growth under Obama

Read More At Investor’s Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-viewpoint/021213-644194-obama-growth-record-is-worst-in-60-years.htm#ixzz2hjoCY0ad
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook

Flailoc stays up at night worrying the GOP might figure out a way to kill this.
Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:25 pm
Tlaloc, almost all of September’s “new” jobs are part time. That’s “recovering slowly” in Tlaloc / Obama Newspeak.

Thank George Orwell that he invented a language for you eh?
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:28 pm
Tlaloc, I quoted the CBO – whose deficit projections have historically been incorrect … too low.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:29 pm
sorry should be “I know you guys hate this but the economy has been recovering slowly for some time.”
Tlaloc (2b22ac) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:35 pm
I might be inclined to listen to that drivel if there was evidence that the Dem Porkulus did anything other than prop up leftist social programming, kickbacks to unions, invest in faux clean energy boondoggles, etc …
JD (35bf64) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:36 pm
Tlaloc, I quoted the CBO – whose deficit projections have historically been incorrect … too low.

And I quoted more from the page which shows I was absolutely correct, deficits have been dropping precipitously. They may later rise, but since those are projections more than 5 years in the future I take them with a huge amount of salt.
Tlaloc (2b22ac) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:37 pm
Reductions in the Rate of unsustainable roar is austerity.
JD (35bf64) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:37 pm
I might be inclined to listen to that drivel if there was evidence that the Dem Porkulus did anything other than prop up leftist social programming, kickbacks to unions, invest in faux clean energy boondoggles, etc …

ask and you shall receive:

Of the nine studies I’ve found, six find that the stimulus had a significant, positive effect on employment and growth, and three find that the effect was either quite small or impossible to detect. Five studies use econometric ”experiments,” which attempt to, as Barro encourages, sort out the effect of the stimulus from other factors using empirical data. Four use modeling instead.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/did-the-stimulus-work-a-review-of-the-nine-best-studies-on-the-subject/2011/08/16/gIQAThbibJ_blog.html

So will you listen now or are you going back on your word?
Tlaloc (2b22ac) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:40 pm
Deficits have been dropping from all time record highs to just super high. Yippee!!!
JD (35bf64) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:40 pm
Speaking of debuts, trivia question. How many people recognize this Admiral from Top Gun?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdiPHMPiJvE
Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:40 pm
“Precipitously” – taking credit for the sequester limits that Democrats are right now demanding be lifted.

That’s the kind of dishonesty Tlaloc traffics in.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:40 pm
Worst recovery since the Great Depression – I wonder which Administration’s policies spawned that?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:41 pm
Tlaloc – significant – I don’t think that word means what you and juice boxer think it means.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:44 pm
The “models” that found positive economic impact from the stimulus assumed a particular ratio of GDP growth to dollar spent, measured dollars spent, multiplied it by the ratio and viola – economic benefit. That’s simply circular logic. But that’s what Tlaloc traffics in.

The stimulus was a failure.

Further, we are seeing more added to our debt than added to our economy in GDP growth every year.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:45 pm
Reductions in the Rate of unsustainable roar is austerity.

The majority of the austerity hasn’t been at the federal level, it’s been at the state level. State spending cratered, in part due to the inability of states to deficit spend the way the fed does, and partially due to austerity measures which the GOP was able to enact with the strength of their 2010 electoral performance.

there were 11 straight quarters of state and local contractions in spending:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/21/us-usa-states-spending-idUSBRE8BJ18A20121221
Tlaloc (2b22ac) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:45 pm
“Precipitously” – taking credit for the sequester limits that Democrats are right now demanding be lifted.

Sequester plays a role, but more important is the rise in income taxes and hence additional revenue. These deficits haven’t been caused by excessive spending but by a collapse of income tax revenue as any number of charts floating around the internet prove.

here’s one:
http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/4e2dc02969bedd127a00003f/chart-of-the-day-fed-expenditures-tax-receipts-social-contributions-july-2011.jpg

fit a line to the spending over time and you see 2000’s was an abnormal low, 2010 was about in line with historic averages. What changed was a huge drop in tax revenue.
Tlaloc (2b22ac) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:49 pm
The stimulus was a failure.

So now we know what SPQR thinks. Whew! I now the collective world of economists were hanging on his judgement.

Back in reality, I’ll take the published work of actual economists over someone who doesn’t now the difference between debt and deficit (sorry SPQR).
Tlaloc (2b22ac) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:51 pm
Here is some completely worthless data – it’s from the government – on the deficit as a percentage of GDP since the first GW budget (FY-2002):

2002 …. 1.48
2003 …. 3.39
2004 …. 3.48
2005 …. 2.52
2006 …. 1.86
2007 …. 1.15
2008 …. 3.21
2009 …. 10.11
2010 …. 10.73
2011 …. 8.40
2012 …. 5.28

FY-2007 was the last year of spending authorized by a GOP Congress before the takeover on The Hill by Pelosi/Reid.
Gee, look, Barry was right, he did cut the deficit in half ….. from the 10.73% that he raised it to.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:52 pm
Ok, nobody guessed.

Back in the day Rat was skipper of the Screaming Eagles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VF-51

And he was one of the MiG pilots in Top Gun, a movie for which he provided technical expertise.

This could be him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oB5CXR6tD6s

“Is this your idea of fun Mav?” – Top Gun

Anyhoo, just pointing out that before he he was tangling with Hank Johnson over Guam, you have seen Rat Willard before.
Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:01 pm
Yes, he flew the inverted MIG, he was still more straight up then Hank.
narciso (3fec35) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:16 pm
39. …Gee, look, Barry was right, he did cut the deficit in half ….. from the 10.73% that he raised it to.

Comment by askeptic (b8ab92) — 10/14/2013 @ 3:52 pm

Math is hard. It’s also old fashioned. They still expect you to come up with correct answers, the bastards.

It’s not fair to challenge Flailoc to do Math!

I know. Let’s have a contest in which everyone gets to say why they hate Bush. After which everyone will get a prize.
Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:19 pm
Oh, it’s like playing soccer.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:22 pm
We can be regaled with tales of how Bush’s profligate spending that paled in comparison to Obama’s was evil while Obama’s spending like the Spanish Armada on Crack is just and necessary. And ObamaCare will reduce the deficit.
JD (5c1832) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:23 pm
Notice how much falafel does not want to discuss the actual topic? It is running around like a gibbering idiot, or just being itself.
JD (5c1832) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:24 pm
You have to spend more money to reduce the deficit – or something.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:26 pm
44. We can be regaled with tales of how Bush’s profligate spending that paled in comparison to Obama’s was evil while Obama’s spending like the Spanish Armada on Crack is just and necessary. And ObamaCare will reduce the deficit.

Comment by JD (5c1832) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:23 pm

And if a mob of people hold me down and stomp on my head that will cure my cold.
Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:26 pm
Tlaloc reminds me of this Iowahawk line: “Curious; when did the John F Kennedy wing of the Democratic party get taken over by the Lee Harvey Oswald wing?”
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:28 pm
There are no huge deficits. They have been coming down.

What’s that? They have been slowly coming down from record highs established by Obama? Well, then. Can you close your eyes for one moment? [Sounds of heavy machinery and grunting.]

So anyway, as I was saying, Obama was SUPPOSED to have a giant deficit because of Bush!

What’s that? No, those goalposts are right where they were. I never moved them! You didn’t SEE me move them, did you?
Patterico (9c670f) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:33 pm
Studies aside, how could pumping money into union pension funds and other such expenditures, not even going to the “not so shovel-ready construction”, possibly do anything positive for the economy? (Other than perhaps fund the studies documenting how much the stimulus supposedly helped).

And did they take into account the repeated stimulus-not-called-a-stimulus in the years since?
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:34 pm
If you had to sum up the Democratic party, I think this sentence would do it.

That JFK was killed by a communist and RFK was killed by a Palestinian and EMK killed his secretary is what they have to lie about.
Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:34 pm
If Sheriff Biden had been empowered to fulfill his charge of watching where all of the money went I am sure it would have come out better.

And I really mean that, a little bit of real time accountability couldn’t have hurt.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:36 pm
OK. Not his secretary. One of the “boiler room girls.”

I’d hate to be inaccurate when discussing another’s lies.
Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:36 pm
I forget who I heard talking about it the other day, but there was the claim that the modern Dem party started immediately after the assassination of JFK when they tried to blame it on anything but a disgruntled communist, the myth that the “Great Evil seething in the midst of American Society” was responsible-
one of the original “don’t waste a crisis” folks.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:39 pm
Patterico – clearly Chimpy McHitler$urton’s fault.
JD (5c1832) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:43 pm
#54 And the Republican Party (in good faith or otherwise) helped them each and every step of the way.

From creating welfare to creating regulatory agencies to making the tax code so “progressive” that 47% are unimpressed by what the other 53% pay.

So pox on Republicans for their role in carrying the water for the Lunatic Left.
Rodney King's Spirit (5c6cbf) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:47 pm
TaLaLoc… you’re going to go to a deep dark place and I’m going to have fun taking you there… by God, I’m going to read your answer to the following: how do you characterize Obama’s fit of pique in closing the nat’l parks and memorials? That was an unprecedented action by a President during a shutdown. I’ll help you… Unprecedented means never before done. Do you think it’s appropriate to punish the people he was elected to serve in this manner?
Colonel Haiku (358fb1) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:52 pm
“And ObamaCare will reduce the deficit.”

JD – I saw a clip of Carney saying that in a press briefing Friday. I was surprised the room did not burst out in laughter. Even the CBO does not pretend it is true anymore.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:53 pm
Care to comment on the topic, falalalalala? Was Obama lying then? Playing irresponsible politics with the full faith and credit of the US then? Or lying now? Or all of the above?
JD (5c1832) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:54 pm
Care to comment on the topic, falalalalala? Was Obama lying then? Playing irresponsible politics with the full faith and credit of the US then? Or lying now? Or all of the above?

I thought it was obvious, the senate dems in 2006 were in the minority. They made statements about the debt limit to score partisan points. They did not make any real effort to block the debt limit rising (nor could they). Nor, I should point out, did senate dems (in the majority) filibuster the debt limit bill.

So yeah, dems sometime play politics. That totally excuses you guys setting fire to the country. For reals!
Tlaloc (2b22ac) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:19 pm
TaLaLoc… you’re going to go to a deep dark place and I’m going to have fun taking you there… by God, I’m going to read your answer to the following: how do you characterize Obama’s fit of pique in closing the nat’l parks and memorials? That was an unprecedented action by a President during a shutdown. I’ll help you… Unprecedented means never before done. Do you think it’s appropriate to punish the people he was elected to serve in this manner?

You dramatically overestimate how threatening you are.
Tlaloc (2b22ac) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:21 pm
And they are still doing so. But that is okay with you and your fellow travelers.
JD (35bf64) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:22 pm
There are no huge deficits. They have been coming down.

I made a factual statement backed up by two different sources. You claim I move goal posts despite my argument remaining exactly the same. Meanwhile you ignore other posters actively conflating debt and deficit in order to try and make counterarguments.

Hmmm. Seems like a bit of a slanted playing field. Almost as if you didn’t want to give some arguments fair consideration…
Tlaloc (2b22ac) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:24 pm
How can the people setting fire to the country overestimate how threatening they are, Flailoc?

Either we’re terrorists with bombs strapped to our chests or we’re not.
Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:24 pm
Steve57 asks the schizoid douche.
Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:25 pm
Hmmm… doesn’t recognize dialogue from Coen Bros’s excellent “Miller’s Crossing”… check.

Okay, TaLaLoc, let’s hear the answer to what’s been asked a few times now.
Colonel Haiku (45091a) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:28 pm
If you got it in you.
Colonel Haiku (45091a) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:28 pm
The answer, that is. Since you’re a lefty, thought I’d better clarify…
Colonel Haiku (45091a) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:29 pm
I will give your argument fair consideration. Obama’s “best” deficit will be way larger than Bush’s “worst”. Improving off the biggest deficits in our history is nothing to pat yourself on the back for.
JD (35bf64) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:32 pm
Well the DHS memo, and that West Point study does tell us, how they feel about us, Steve, however if they were truly threatened by us, they wouldn’t dare go with ‘teabagger’ and other remarks,
narciso (3fec35) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:34 pm
let’s see… he’s about weak-suck v26.0 in 2013 by now…
Colonel Haiku (45091a) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:36 pm
Tlaloc, keep in mind that the spending during the Bush years was exaggerated due to TWO WARS.
On the other hand, Obama’s spending has largely been in the absence of two wars.

I know, I know, math is hard, especially for liberals. That’s why you guys are always asking for other people’s money.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:40 pm
Do you remember after the porkulus debacle (with the famous non shovel ready projects) some clever math persons did a calculation about how many millions of dollars each job “created or saved” cost us in debt? At the rate it’s going, the cost per Obamacare sign up looks to be equally impressive.
elissa (ad9aa3) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:50 pm
48. What is 1972?
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 5:58 pm
Tlaloc’s lies are astonishingly brazen.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:09 pm
That’s an exaggeration, of course, anyway.

51. 53. Comment by Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:34 pm & 4:36 pm

That JFK was killed by a communist

Would-be Communist, possibly anxious to get back into the good graces of the KGB. The Soviet Union, and Cuba, wanted nothing to do with him.

If this was a conspiracy, recruited by Texas Democrats/organized crime in a false flag operation, in a last ditch effort to salvage a plot that was falling apart that fall..

and RFK was killed by a Palestinian

?

Jordanian, or Palestinian refugee. You won’t find any contemporary account calling him a Palestinian. Palestinians did not exist until 1974.

and EMK killed one of the “boiler room girls.”

It was an accident! Involuntary manslaughter at most, and only because he was drunk.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:12 pm
It was an accident! Involuntary manslaughter at most, and only because he was drunk.

Admiral Teddy Oldsmobile should have been convicted of a felony, Sammy. He was at the wheel and caused the death of the young lady.
Colonel Haiku (45091a) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:20 pm
No. He killed her. Sammy, he left her in the car to die and didn’t tell authorities she was there, or about the “accident” for hours. He was sober enough to get himself to shore? Then he was sober enough ask for help. But he didn’t. Decent people do not do what he did that night, regardless of the poliical or personal ramifications.
elissa (ad9aa3) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:21 pm
Sammy, what planet are you from ?
Lee Harvey Oswald was an ideological Communist. The fact that the Soviet Union or Cuba “didn’t want him” does not negate his ideological persuasion.

And Sirhan Sirhan self-identifies as a Palestinian refugee. His grievance against RFK is that RFK was too pro-Israel. His parents settled the family in Pasadena, CA, where he went to school, including Pasadena City College, a two year community college.
There are people in the Pasadena area who still remember Sirhan as a small, strange youth who didn’t fit in, and who was made fun of on the playground.
Of course, zillions of people didn’t fit in as children, yet avoided murdering presidential candidates.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:21 pm
So far from what I am hearing from the MSM (and I tend not to believe much “leaked” by the MSM) it looks like Boehner is going to put Obama on the spot here. Obama said to fund the government and then he will talk. It looks like there is a deal to fund the government for about another quarter then force Obama to put up or shut up on his negotiation promise. If he doesn’t work something out, we are right back here again in January or February.

So I don’t see it as all that bad a deal. It is temporary but forces Obama to follow through with his rhetoric. I’ll see what the “deal” really entails. I’m not trusting much of anything coming out of the mass media.
crosspatch (f08108) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:23 pm
What’s that? No, those goalposts are right where they were. I never moved them! You didn’t SEE me move them, did you?

its a god thing that pre-existing conditions such as “turf toe” is now covered…
EPWJ (6140f6) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:27 pm
good thing – the god thing is the aca..
EPWJ (6140f6) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:27 pm
Oh, wow, Sammy, are you making excuses for Teddy Kennedy ?
Good Allah.

You often subscribe to these OJ Simpson explanations for wrong-doing.

Ted Kennedy left her to drown.
The hotel attendant testified that when Teddy returned to the hotel shortly thereafter, he asked Teddy if there was anything he could do for him, and Teddy replied, “No.”

So right there, he was given yet another opportunity to contact authorities and report what happened, but he refused to do so until after a consultation at lunchtime with his attorney.

There’s a couple of darker questions that are rarely asked…why was he so bent on not saving her ? And why was no autopsy performed ?
Had he saved her, he would have been a hero, and everyone would have probably accepted the “hey, I had a few too many drinks, but I saved her so all’s well that ends well” angle.
But it is almost as if he didn’t want her to survive, because then she might tell the world that he had forced himself on her—after all, why else would the Kennedys pay to circumvent an autopsy on a drowned woman ?
What the hell were the Kennedys afraid of—that water would have been found in her lungs ?

C’mon, man.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:29 pm
59 Comment by JD (5c1832) — 10/14/2013 @ 4:54 pm

Was Obama lying then? Playing irresponsible politics with the full faith and credit of the US then? Or lying now? Or all of the above?

It is all of the above. Both what he says now and what he said then are pretty much lies, and he was playing irresponsible politics then.

But Obama is telling the trth that nothing was at risk then. He was not going to stop the debt ceiling from being raised in 2006, even though the vote was close.

In 2006 Harry Reid probably worked it all out with Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, agreeing that he’d give him so many and so many Democratic votes for raising the debt ceiling, and he and Chuck Schumer counted every vote, and told Obama it was OK to vote no, maybe even counseled him to.

That’s why it was so close.

As Obama said last Tuesday:

The truth of the matter is, if you look at the history, people posture about the debt ceiling frequently

(He was arguing they never negotiated about it in the past – they just stuck it in at the conclusions of negotiations of about a budget, but nobody ever seriously threatened to holld it up.)

See http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/transcript-president-obamas-oct-8-news-conference-on-the-shutdown-and-debt-limit/2013/10/08/866088c0-3038-11e3-8906-3daa2bcde110_print.html

All the way down at the bottom, last questioner, whom he called upon after he sluffed off a question about the “military death proceedings”

I guess that reporter was kind of nervous, and maybe was never officially called on.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:36 pm
Use The Won’s own words against him? Great idea!

I sent it off to Mr. Speaker Boehner… wouldn’t it be a HOOT if he included that quote in a statement on the negotiations, and gave fulsome praise to “Barack Obama for his excellent explanation of the dire ramifications of raising the debt ceiling” !!

I’d ROFL!
A_Nonny_Mouse (57cacf) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:37 pm
I can’t believe that the GOP leadership isn’t beating the drum with the words of Obama and Reid from 2006.

We need new GOP leadership.
Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:46 pm
84. “Obama is telling the [truth] that nothing was at risk then.”

Sam you will not be taken seriously until you give up this ludicrous notion that anyone here believes antiChrist can, even accidentally, utter the truth.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:50 pm
Tlaloc thinks that “Facts” == Pelosi’s drunken ravings.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:02 pm
Wow. Unlike Steve57 I keep learning new things about the NSA. Another Snowdon revelation in WAPO. I don’t think most people are going to like it, and it looks pretty illegal.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-nsa-collecting-data-from-address-books-2013-10
elissa (ad9aa3) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:05 pm
83. Comment by Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:29 pm

Oh, wow, Sammy, are you making excuses for Teddy Kennedy ?

Ted Kennedy left her to drown

It’s the truth. He panicked, probably thought how was it going to affect his chances to be president, and he couldn’t think straight. But it was hardly what you normally call murder.

His panic would have induced him to do everything possible to save the girl. (at least what he could do without trying to get outside help)

There’s no reason to doubt he dived if he had some swimming ability. It wasan’t like the waters were turbulent. He probably, though, never reached the level of the car. And he might have been afraid to dive too deep.

The hotel attendant testified that when Teddy returned to the hotel shortly thereafter, he asked Teddy if there was anything he could do for him, and Teddy replied, “No.”

Well, what could he do? If Mary Jo Kopechne needed help, he couldn’t help her any more.

Either she’d escaped, without him seeing her, or she was dead.

Turns out there was another possibility, but anyway.

Now at that point he was pondering if he could deny ever being there. Or maybe he wasn’t pondering anything at all.

There’s a couple of darker questions that are rarely asked…why was he so bent on not saving her ?

What do you mean, he didn’t want to save her?

And why was no autopsy performed ?

Interesting question. It later came out that there was an air bubble in the car, so Mary Jo Kopechne could have stayed alive some time. I’m not sure if an autopsy could detect that. Maybe yes, it might show she didn’t die from drowning, but from low oxygen. Or maybe they didn’t want it revealed that there was alcohol in her blood.

Had he saved her, he would have been a hero, and everyone would have probably accepted the “hey, I had a few too many drinks, but I saved her so all’s well that ends well” angle.

Admitting he was drunk would have hurt him, and he wouldn’t have done that, but if he had saved her, there would be no incident.

But it is almost as if he didn’t want her to survive, because then she might tell the world that he had forced himself on her

Where do we get that? Ted Kennedy didn’t have a record of that. No accusations. Of course in later generations in the Kennedy family, things got worse.

What the hell were the Kennedys afraid of—that water would have been found in her lungs ?

Maybe that water would NOT have been found in her lungs.

He just had drunkenly gone down the wrong road wthiut realizing it, and drove onto a bridge without guiderails – a bridge that bent in the middle – and he kept on going straight and just went off into the water.

It’s possible maybe he didn’t really swim home and he did get outside family help (although for that he’d have had to knock on somebody’s door and make a phone call) and if anyone came they could do nothing.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:11 pm
84. 87. Of course he can tell the truth.

Sometimes it is to his advantage. At least a partial truth is.

Nothing was at risk in 2006. Really, it wasn’t.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:14 pm
83. Comment by Elephant Stone (6a6f37) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:29 pm

You often subscribe to these OJ Simpson explanations for wrong-doing.

the only thing I want to comment about the OJ Simpson case right now is, although OJ wielded the knife, it was a conspiracy, and Robert Kadashian was one of the conspirators, maybe the person most responsible for talking him into it..

It was Kardashian who left the second glove outside Kato’s room, thinking O.J. was in there as he expected O.J. to be back from the murders by then, not realizing that O.J. was late, having been delayed by the murder of Ron Goldman, and was he was still walking home from where he’d parked the bloody Bronco some distance away. It was O.J’s job to dispose of the bloody clothes by leaving them insome place to be picked up by some unknown person or persons at the airport and it was Kardashian’s job to get the Bronco washed.

Both OJ and RK missed the first bloody glove. Possibly the second bloody glove was left in the Bronco.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:20 pm
So who was the wise acre we can thank who brought teddy into this thread?
elissa (ad9aa3) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:22 pm
Elissa, wow indeed.

Sammy, just wow.
Dana (6178d5) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:23 pm
Its Steve57’s fault. ** pointing at Steve57 **

Not mine. Nope. Can’t blame me.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:23 pm
About snowden. A visisor to snowden in Moscow said Snowden had no information on the 4 laptops he brought with him to Hong Kong – all his secret files were on flash drives and disconnected or external hard disks.

The CIA was investigating Snowden for snooping around, but Snowden quit his CIA job before the CIA could complete its invetigation, so no report was forwarded to other U.S. government intelligence agencies.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:23 pm
Oh sweet infant baby Jesus, Sammy
JD (35bf64) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:24 pm
Sammy, dude, lay off the sauce. Whatever sauce you consume.

Lay off.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:24 pm
Steve57 in comment 51 and his correction at 53.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:25 pm
97. which comment is that one about?
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:25 pm
Take your pick
JD (35bf64) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:26 pm
Comment by elissa (ad9aa3) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:05 pm

Meh. Let them. All my social media and email contacts are red herrings — entirely harmless model citizens. The way I run my cabal is with a blog to which all my ilks have the same username and password of the ostensible one author. Whenever someone needs to communicate, he puts up a post. It is in a simple one time code — a book in which pages corresponds to the date of the post with a little further bit of letter substitution — forgive me if I do not go into all the details. We further take care to visit and post on the blog only from public wifis. Nyah, nyah, Obama.
nk (dbc370) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:29 pm
Sammy, dude, return to planet Earth.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:35 pm
Or at least back on the ecliptic plane,
narciso (3fec35) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:41 pm
narciso, so you are saying that my goal is too ambitious?
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:47 pm
nk, damn dude, you have a cabal too?
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:47 pm
baby steps, SPQR.
narciso (3fec35) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:49 pm
Prince Bandar and Robert Kardashian in the library with a candlestick.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:49 pm
narciso, how about the asteroid belt?
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:50 pm
80. Comment by crosspatch (f08108) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:23 pm

It looks like there is a deal to fund the government for about another quarter then force Obama to put up or shut up on his negotiation promise. If he doesn’t work something out, we are right back here again in January or February.

No later than January 1, because additional sequester cuts kick in on January 1, but the democrats will probably want round 2 to begin a little before that. But I don’t trthink they’ll hold out for December 15 – if not December 15, then December 31, with the debt ceiling being out of the way for some time poast that.

So I don’t see it as all that bad a deal. It is temporary but forces Obama to follow through with his rhetoric. I’ll see what the “deal” really entails. I’m not trusting much of anything coming out of the mass media.

It’s half true. It boils down to the fact that Democrats want a spending increase and a tax increase, while the Republicans want at least a net spending and tax freeze. All according to the CBO, not reality.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:50 pm
close enough, Obama is about Rule #5, make them live up to the their own values, to an impossible degree, so that dodge served him, while he plotted schemes that would blow up the budget.
narciso (3fec35) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:59 pm
Halp I just got here to look around and it looks like a satellite is breaking up or some kind of debris field.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 10/14/2013 @ 8:01 pm
Take your pick
Comment by JD (35bf64) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:26 pm

That was funny.

Hey, are we all like getting our own cabals now? Will there be a cabal of cabals?
Is there a “Cabals for Dummies” book or website or anything?
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/14/2013 @ 8:05 pm
SPQR, I do very much want to laugh at the NSA as a filter for the harmless, but unfortunately I suspect that our SCOAMF will have no qualms in using the information of the harmless against them for any purpose. As we saw with the IRS and the Tea Party, and with the reporters and Fast and Furious and Benghazi, and other scandals.
nk (dbc370) — 10/14/2013 @ 8:08 pm
from the comments, turns out, Obama was not an outlier;

http://twitchy.com/2013/10/14/tolerance-james-woods-i-was-blocked-from-job-due-to-politics-bonus-barrycade-slamming-pics/
narciso (3fec35) — 10/14/2013 @ 8:08 pm
Guys

Ted wasn’t Driving, Edwin Edwards of Louisiana was, Mary Jo was his date….

That’s the back story I keep being told by apologists in Louisiana – I have no idea, I asked the Gov once if it was true – he wasn’t real happy I knew about it….

It really didn’t make any sense to me and I 100% scoffed at such a ludicrous fib, that was until Ted married Edwins Mentors Daughter, theennn I started wondering if all that could possibly be true.

BTW my sister is related through marriage to Ted’s wife’s family –
EPWJ (6140f6) — 10/14/2013 @ 8:11 pm
89. Wow. Unlike Steve57 I keep learning new things about the NSA. Another Snowdon revelation in WAPO. I don’t think most people are going to like it, and it looks pretty illegal.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-nsa-collecting-data-from-address-books-2013-10

Comment by elissa (ad9aa3) — 10/14/2013 @ 7:05 pm

As a proud member of the squadron what won the 1990 Pacific Fleet Boola Boola I’d advise you to be:

A) Concerned there is such an award called the Boola Boola.

B) Worried I could be part of the crew who can win it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBAeE43o-ac
Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 9:04 pm
a lot of people are mad about how the CIA poofterboys were too busy watching gay porn and picking out the green M&Ms to follow up on their own report that Mr. Snowden was a wee lil security risk

but me personally I’m kinda glad it happened
happyfeet (8ce051) — 10/14/2013 @ 9:29 pm
Oh, wow, Sammy, are you making excuses for Teddy Kennedy ?

Well, he’s done sort of the same thing for Obama, implying that the debacle in the White House isn’t intrinsically of the left.

Sammy gives away what makes him tick when he’ll claim casually and nonchalantly — as he did recently — that commentator Pat Buchanan loves blood and violence. BTW, I’m not even a fan of Buchanan, but I certainly could never say with a straight face that he isn’t innately of the right. However, I believe he is anti-Semitic, although perhaps not as explicitly and tactically (eg, implementing anti-Jewish quotas) as the left’s hero and icon Franklin D Roosevelt was.
Mark (58ea35) — 10/14/2013 @ 9:29 pm
Sarahw, where ever Sammy appears there is a Kessler Cascade.
SPQR (768505) — 10/14/2013 @ 9:59 pm
Mr. Feets – You just got to stop being so negative about the soul crushing juggernaut of fail that is President Obama’s Banana Republic of America and hop aboard that Love Train.

People all around the world are doing it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQvmCzILBfE
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/14/2013 @ 10:06 pm
Ted wasn’t Driving, Edwin Edwards of Louisiana was, Mary Jo was his date….

That’s the back story I keep being told by apologists in Louisiana – I have no idea, I asked the Gov once if it was true – he wasn’t real happy I knew about it….

It really didn’t make any sense to me and I 100% scoffed at such a ludicrous fib, that was until Ted married Edwins Mentors Daughter, theennn I started wondering if all that could possibly be true.

BTW my sister is related through marriage to Ted’s wife’s family –

Comment by EPWJ (6140f6) — 10/14/2013

Whatever theory they come up with can’t change Elissa’s simple point. If Ted was sober enough to swim away and go to his hotel, he was sober enough to get help. He didn’t. He is responsible for the deadly consequences.

He got away with it for a while, but he recently came before a court that is not impressed with his connections, and I am comfortable with that.
Dustin (303dca) — 10/14/2013 @ 10:22 pm
this “love” train –

my not-unjustified fear is that it’s an emissions nightmare Mr. daley

machines of steel what chug and choo
are not the friends of me and you

if from our doom we wish to free us
the love train must become love prius
happyfeet (8ce051) — 10/14/2013 @ 10:29 pm
if our doom is what we must abhor
the love train becomes the Flying Spur

Can we at least aspire to something, Mr. Feets?

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5001786956316800&pid=15.1

http://www.zercustoms.com/news/images/Bentley/ASI-Bentley-Continental-Flying-Spur-7.jpg

http://www.automotivemagz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/2014-Bentley-Flying-Spur-2.jpg

Dude, seriously? A Prius?
Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 10:50 pm
Mr. Feets – You doan want no Love Train?

Have some Donna Summer orgasms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5AztWseIdU
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/14/2013 @ 10:55 pm
I think the B-52s are more his style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=leohcvmf8kM

Love Shack

The Prius was the tell.
Steve57 (4bf843) — 10/14/2013 @ 11:00 pm
I’m down with Love Shack.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/14/2013 @ 11:05 pm
Steve57 – I fear a young picachu such as Mr. Feets may be suffering from a lack of Disco in his life.

He needs to just put on his Boogie Shoes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5AztWseIdU
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/14/2013 @ 11:21 pm
daley, lots of people of suffering. Let me ease their pain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My7Zad2Kc4Y

After the love has gone

Never let it be said I didn’t do the least I could do.
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/14/2013 @ 11:54 pm
For those suffering from Disco starvation.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x255z2_earth-wind-and-fire-boogie-wonderla_music?start=22

Boogie wonderland
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/15/2013 @ 12:01 am
Steve57 – There’s a whole lotta love on this blog!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 10/15/2013 @ 12:04 am
Are you feeling it? I’m feeling it.
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/15/2013 @ 12:06 am
disco sucks: always has, always will.

try some live rock n’roll… i recommend tracks 5 & 6 especially, but the whole thing is a tasty, tasty delight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCJ-GjCcvFk
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 10/15/2013 @ 12:08 am
For no particular reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8LCyvDWkP8

News you can use. They still won’t kick you out of the Navy for drag racing (no, Mark).
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/15/2013 @ 12:10 am
Just because I know of Disco, red, doesn’t mean I approve of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c7MdwB2WU9Q#t=211

Stevie Ray Vaughan- Look At Little Sister (montreux 85′)

True to my Navy roots, a little surf music.

http://www.totallyfuzzy.net/ourtube/stevie-ray-vaughan/pipeline-with-dick-dale-video_79abe0043.html

Stevie Ray Vaughan – Pipeline (with Dick Dale)
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/15/2013 @ 12:25 am
Deep thoughts by Tlaloc . . .
Look if you want to argue that we should impose steep cuts to the federal government because that’s your philosophy then fine, but don’t pretend you are doing so to prevent some fiscal disaster down the road that the best evidence says is never coming.
— You have NO “best evidence”. We are $17T in debt; every month the Fed ‘monetizes’ our accruing debt by pretending to print non-existent money; reducing the yearly deficit from $1.1T to $642B does NOT eliminate the possibility of disaster, it merely delays the inevitable.

You could prove me wrong really quickly by simply citing federal deficit numbers that show it going up instead of down.
— NO ONE here claimed that it hasn’t gone down this year. Neither has it gone away. And the fact (stubborn thing) remains that Obama has doubled the national debt under his watch.

This is the train barrelling down on us that we have to kill the economy with a default to prevent?
— There isn’t going to be a ‘default’. Even if the debt ceiling isn’t raised (and it’s going to be raised) this does NOT automatically result in a failure to make debt payments.

Yes we had a huge recession brdering on a depression and we racked up a big deficit exactly like we should have. That’s how you deal with a recession to offset the damage and give the public sector a chance to regroup.
— You give the public sector ‘a chance to regroup’ by spending it to the brink of insolvency? Good plan. Solid.

I know you guys hate this but the recovery has been recovering slowly for some time. I dare say without all the efforts by the right to sabotage it with austerity we’d be in decent shape now.
— Ah yes, Paul Krugman’s “the only problem with the stimulus was that it needed to be BIGGER” theory. Economic snake oil.
Icy (8d5b66) — 10/15/2013 @ 1:04 am
Icy’s right. In fact I wonder how much better the economy would be had we simply balanced the budget every year of Obama’s term. Since the dollar really gets weaker every time they print another zillion of them, every American family would be richer if the government balanced the budget. Food would be cheaper. Fuel would be cheaper. A new employee would be cheaper. Health care would be cheaper.

The economy would do a hell of a lot better with more of the government out of the way.

Every dollar taken out of the economy to go to the government results in something less than a dollar put back in, due to the inefficiency of our government. For this reason it is highly irrational to attempt to stimulate the economy by taking 150 billion out of it to provide 100 billion of stimulus. Of course, that’s not what tlaloc said. He said stimulus was to benefit “the public sector”, which is a democrat interest group. I agree that this is the beneficiary.
Dustin (303dca) — 10/15/2013 @ 1:18 am
The majority of the austerity hasn’t been at the federal level, it’s been at the state level.
— Guess all of the drunken sailors got shore leave in D.C., huh?

State spending cratered, in part due to the inability of states to deficit spend the way the fed does
— ‘Cept for California, baby! Whoop whoop!!!

and partially due to austerity measures which the GOP was able to enact with the strength of their 2010 electoral performance.
— Also known as ‘responsible, recall-proof governance’.

there were 11 straight quarters of state and local contractions in spending
— Good!

Sequester plays a role, but more important is the rise in income taxes and hence additional revenue. These deficits haven’t been caused by excessive spending but by a collapse of income tax revenue as any number of charts floating around the internet prove.
— What’s that, old sport? You say that raising tax rates does NOT result in a corresponding rise in revenue? By Jove, I think you might be on to something there!

So yeah, dems sometime play politics. That totally excuses you guys setting fire to the country. For reals!
— And by “play politics” you mean ‘be totally disingenuous’, such as when you accuse ‘us guys’ of setting fire to the country. Got it. [So much for Chris Matthews’ claim of “He’s a new type of candidate; someone who is above politics.”]

Hmmm. Seems like a bit of a slanted playing field. Almost as if you didn’t want to give some arguments fair consideration…
— If you want to deslant the playing field, then all you gotta do is PROVE that anyone here claimed that the deficit for 2013 is going to be larger than that of 2012.
Icy (5201b4) — 10/15/2013 @ 1:37 am
Exactly right, Dustin.
Icy (5201b4) — 10/15/2013 @ 1:39 am
Great tunes by Stevie Ray.
thanks steve57.
mg (31009b) — 10/15/2013 @ 3:48 am
Ding!

Now, could our esteemed host move this comment to position number one of the GOVERNMENT SLOWDOWN, DAY FIFTEEN post that is due up in a couple of hours. I really, really, want the first comment, but I have to do something really radical like work.

Thank you ever so much!
The Dana who has to go outside and work (3e4784) — 10/15/2013 @ 5:08 am
141. Comment by The Dana who has to go outside and work (3e4784) — 10/15/2013 @ 5:08 am

Ding!

Now, could our esteemed host move this comment to position number one of the GOVERNMENT SLOWDOWN, DAY FIFTEEN post that is due up in a couple of hours.

I was told some time ago this can’t be done. We’ve gone backwards since the 1990s when a SYSOP could that on a BBS running PCBoard.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/15/2013 @ 5:44 am
Except, of course, when he isn’t, which last time we checked was always.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-14/treasury-bills-reopen-and-arent-buying-it-one-bit

In a world without collateral UST doesn’t entice.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/15/2013 @ 6:03 am
135. Number 2 vid is tubular.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/15/2013 @ 6:12 am
133. It’s rap that sucks.

Let’s go all the way back, to high school.

Wait for it, it’s rough hewn but its all there.

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A0S00MiLQV1SRBAAErT7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTB2dDhzYjM1BHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDVjE0NgRncG9zAzE-?p=in+a+world+without+you+Genesis&vid=16f1e76752bcf7e896ddbd66da73c528&l=16%3A15&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.4524482951646567%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSyvd1vFCzgA&tit=Genesis+-+World+Without+You+%5BPsychedelic+Rock%5D&c=0&sigr=11ah43947&age=0&&tt=b

Imagine what Stevie Ray would’ve done with it, maybe he did?
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/15/2013 @ 6:43 am
Another treasure:

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A0S00MiLQV1SRBAAErT7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTB2dDhzYjM1BHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDVjE0NgRncG9zAzE-?p=in+a+world+without+you+Genesis&vid=16f1e76752bcf7e896ddbd66da73c528&l=16%3A15&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DV.4524482951646567%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSyvd1vFCzgA&tit=Genesis+-+World+Without+You+%5BPsychedelic+Rock%5D&c=0&sigr=11ah43947&age=0&&tt=b
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/15/2013 @ 7:26 am
146. Sorry, I’ll quit now.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/15/2013 @ 7:28 am
Got your back, gary. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1LOWEufAH0 (Mama, probably NSFW ;)) Stevie Ray? Genesis don’t need no Stevie Ray.
nk (dbc370) — 10/15/2013 @ 7:53 am
80. Comment by crosspatch (f08108) — 10/14/2013 @ 6:23 pm

If he doesn’t work something out, we are right back here again in January or February.

110. SF: No later than January 1, because additional sequester cuts kick in on January 1, but the democrats will probably want round 2 to begin a little before that.

It looks like I was wrong. the date being discussed is January 15. Probably because they wanta long vacation and it has been the habit of Congress to come back into session a week or more into January.

I heard last night that the date for debt ceiling was February 15, but the newspaper today says February 7.

This is the Senate deal being worked out, based on the proposal by Senator Susan Collins of Maine who started the gang of 12 (which the New York Times is now portraying, as something started by women)

Instead of the medical devices tax, now the idea is to delay the reinsurance tax (apparently this is the “Cadillac” tax on expensive health insurance plans, which is, by the way, not indexed for inflation. That’s the thing unions are concerned about. It doesn’t kick in anyway until 2018, and this would make it 2019)

There is aprovision which could shut down the exchanges, at least temporarily, or prevebt the issuance of any policies.

The Secretary of HHS will have to certify that the department can verify income eligibility.

This is being described as tightening income verification standards. Nobody ever says exactly what they would do to verify income for the exchanges. They are already supposed to do that, but they can’t manage. Maybe that is more to prevent them from skipping that step.

At least in theory, they get back anything too high, because it’s all recalculated by April 15, 2015.

The Senate plan, according to the New York Times, also says that discussion on a spending plan is supposed to be concluded by December 13. How is that to be enforced?
Sammy Finkelman (d28b55) — 10/15/2013 @ 8:14 am
148. Thanks. I’m still good at dishes anyway. My hands tolerate hot water.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/15/2013 @ 8:45 am
137. Comment by Dustin (303dca) — 10/15/2013 @ 1:18 am

Since the dollar really gets weaker every time they print another zillion of them,

I don’t think it does. This is theory maybe, not fact.

China is trying to replace the U.S. Dollar with something, but there’s nothing to replace it with, as a (young black woman, I don’t know her name) analyst on the CBS Morning News said just past 8 am this morning

every American family would be richer if the government balanced the budget. Food would be cheaper. Fuel would be cheaper. A new employee would be cheaper. Health care would be cheaper.

How is that? The U.S. is now even on a course not to import fuel.

For this reason it is highly irrational to attempt to stimulate the economy by taking 150 billion out of it to provide 100 billion of stimulus.

But that’s not what happens when there is a “stimulus”

It’s more like 60 billion taken out of the economy (by borrowing) and 90 billion comes from the Federal Reserve Board.However it is possible the fed may cut back on other monetary expansion it might have made. The real problem was, they couldn’t get the money supply to expand.

Of course, that’s not what tlaloc said. He said stimulus was to benefit “the public sector”, which is a democrat interest group. I agree that this is the beneficiary

Basically state and local governmemnt employees, until it ended.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/15/2013 @ 8:59 am
Have you bought milk or bread recently Sammy, also the ethanol doesn’t help keep prices down,
narciso (3fec35) — 10/15/2013 @ 9:02 am
I don’t buy milk, because I always throw it out, but you get it cheaper than for what they say Walmart charges, and I haven’t noticed any recent changes in the price of cheese. Not too long ago I got 5 1 pound cottage cheeses (total $2.50) in shoprite for 50 cents each – they were reduced for quick sale, because the expiration date was Sept 22, which was a few days away, but one was quite good even last week. I got another cheese on special somewhere else for $1.99.

Bread seems to go up around holidays, (and then stay up) but I’ve actually found places that are cheaper in recent months. Prices vary widely.
Sammy Finkelman (37a793) — 10/15/2013 @ 9:08 am
151. “I don’t think it does.”

If you did think it still wouldn’t matter.

China, Russia, Indochina, Iran, Australia and now Canada have all agreed to dispense with the dollar in bilateral trade.

Arrested Development didn’t even bother with the ASEAN meetup 10 days hence.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/15/2013 @ 10:05 am
152, 153. Do you feel heard, narciso. Did moby answer your query?
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/15/2013 @ 10:06 am
Rather than resort to anecdote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeremy-warner/10378666/The-sun-is-setting-on-dollar-supremacy-and-with-it-American-power.html

With the pound, the fall from grace was swift. Britain emerged from the devastation of the First World War an irreparably damaged economic and military power, with crushing debts and a deeply impaired manufacturing sector.

So it took more than a decade but it happened all the same. Different this time?
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 10/15/2013 @ 10:27 am
Here’s another gem for you, gary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3CO7FPU7a2g#t=174

Dread Zeppelin – Immigrant Song
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/16/2013 @ 5:11 am
Glad you guys liked the Stevie Ray vids.

Let’s see if I can do something with hip hop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Uf7AkSdJcD4

I’m On A Boat Navy Edition

NSFW
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/16/2013 @ 5:41 am
They also serve, those who sit and surf the SIPRNET.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BXZAf07gaKE
Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/16/2013 @ 5:52 am
Dread Zeppelin – Immigrant Song
Comment by Steve57 (1cc639) — 10/16/2013 @ 5:11 am

— Bought the CD when it came out after hearing this one on the radio. Hilarious!
Icy (934744) — 10/16/2013 @ 6:44 am

10/14/2013

Barack Obama Was Right!

160 Responses to “Barack Obama Was Right!”

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