Patterico's Pontifications

10/3/2013

Which Party Has Voted to Fund National Parks and Cancer Research?

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:03 am



That would be the GOP.

Harry Reid won’t even brings those bills up for a vote.

Where are the headlines explaining this?

Which party is the only party willing to negotiate?

That would be the GOP.

Where are the headlines explaining this?

Big Media lies.

Another lie has to do with these polls about blame for a government ahutdown. But there is no government shutdown. There is a slowdown. All essential services continue.

My kingdom for a poll that poses the question fairly.

But we won’t see one. Because . . .

Big Media lies.

173 Responses to “Which Party Has Voted to Fund National Parks and Cancer Research?”

  1. And this is the problem, Patterico. The Fourth Branch of government, unelected, self-selected, and unaccountable, controls Teh Narrative. Mainstream Media.

    I know many people who don’t believe me. But turn it around. If a Republican President and Senate were playing games like this, it would 24/7/365 on the front page, criticized.

    I don’t know what to do.

    I do know that it is instructive to ask our Left of center friends to define “compromise.” It’s a fun exercise to watch them twist and turn and shake pom-poms.

    Beware of 2014 and 2016. We are truly in Orwellian Ministry of Truth territory.

    By the way… I fully approve of an adversarial press. But we only have on when it comes to folks NOT on the Left.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  2. It’s just a loooong weekend.

    crazy (d60cb0)

  3. The Wall Street Journal in its main editorial has something even more shocking, which I didn’t learn anywhere else, although perhaps it is somewhere else.

    For background – this is not in the editorial –
    President Obama has now taken to warning about the consequenes of a default on the debt. He even had the heads of J.P. Morgan Chase, Goldman Sachs
    the Bank of America and others over at the White House yesterday. Of course Obama is trying to confuse the public between the shutdown and the debt ceiling, by the way he talks in his soundbites, but all the arguments about dire consequences apply only to failure to rais ethe debt ceiling.

    Anyway, the debt ceiling has now been drawn into this, and it does seem he wants to deal with both of these things at the same time.

    Now in reality, there’s no cause for worry. The Treasury can always pay the traded debt first. But the Obama Administration has a lega argument – maybe there’s no discretion left to Secretary of the Treasury to decide who to pay when there are insufficient funds to pay all claims outstanding. That’s not true, and there’s also impoundment authority, lots of things, but a Predient and Secretary of the Treasury might possibly decide NOT to pay the debt traded on the market first, although the odds are very small that Presient Obama would really do that. Still, the possibility could create a drop in price and cause the Treasry to pay higher interest rates.

    And it would cause Standard and Poor’s and Moody’s to downgrade the credot rating of the United States, not that anybody uses the credit rating when deciding whether or not to hold Treasury bills, notes and bonds.

    Now I am getting to what is in the editorial.

    So back in 2011, when this issue first came up, Congressman Tom McClintock (R-Cal.) and Senator Pat Toomey (R-Penn.) came up with a bill, which they called the Full Faith and Credit Act that would exactly what happens in the event the Treasury is short of cash.

    It says the debt service (interest and principla repayments) gets first call on all revenue. with regard to everything else, it says the Secretary of the Treasury has full discretion to pick and choose.

    So now this year, in May, it was brought up in the House and passed 221 to 207 on a party line vote after a raucous debate and a veto threat.

    The best argument the Democrats had in the House debate was that it would make school lunch programs, student loans, unemployment insurance and everything else “second class.”

    The White House called it “unwise, unworkable and unacceptably risky.”

    I guess it’s not worth trying to explain the logic behind that claim, because there isn’t any.

    Sammy Finkelman (a1e8fb)

  4. More recently, it got attached to the continuing resolution last week.

    Senator Harry Reid moved to strip it out (apparently before substituting his own bill, just to get the votes on record) and his amendment passed 54-44.

    Harry Reid called it the “Pay China First Act.”

    Like as if anybody in his right mind who understood finance would do anything else. Like as if this would cause a big problem. Like as if China owns most of the debt, which it doesn’t. It’s just the single largest foreign holder. It owns roughly 7 to 10% of the federal debt. Two thirds are held domestically, although I think that figure includes the Social Security trust fund.

    Sammy Finkelman (a1e8fb)

  5. Do you know what the Director of NAtional Intelligence, James Clapper, said?

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/shutdown-damages-national-security-intelligence-chief-article-1.1473915

    Intelligence Director James Clapper says shutdown hurts national security Clapper, in impromptu remarks before the Senate Judiciary Committee, said the government shutdown is a ‘dreamland for foreign intelligence’ to recruit financially strained U.S. intelligence employees.

    Like as if, in two days, somebody will be facing bankruptcy.

    Sammy Finkelman (a1e8fb)

  6. I note that, in addition to all the other obfuscation, misdirection, and falsehoods by OFA, their spokesperson, David Cutler, wants to drop Obamacare from the group’s lexicon.

    Yeah, I’m good with a name change here. Lets call it, DemocratsDon’tCare, NoChildWithCancerCare, or CommieComradeCare. I’m all for Truth in Advertising.

    PPs43 (0112e8)

  7. You guys were dying for a shutdown, demanding a shutdown, insisting a shutdown would be painless, unnoticed, actually loved.

    So what happened?

    Two days in and you are already scrambling to avoid bad press by undoing the shutdown one piece at a time. So much for all those predictions, huh?

    But the dems have no reason to let you walk it back a piece at a time. The shutdown is massively unpopular and the lion’s share of the blame is falling squarely on the right, just as everyone not named Cruz knew it would.

    So enjoy your shutdown. Revel in your bad press. And get ready for Boehner to cave because the big business types have started waking up to the fact that the tea party is in fact crazy enough to cause a default on the US debt and plunge the world into a new recession.

    That clinking sound you may hear is the GOP’s choke chain getting yanked by a dozen irate bank CEOs.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  8. Tlaloc, your spin is hilariously dishonest.

    It is Obama and the Democrats who wanted a shutdown. Notice all those Park Service preprinted signs about it? Those don’t get printed overnight.

    Its the Democrats who are having bad press – shutting down things that have no staff, and in some cases, no Federal budget appropriations at all.

    You are our usual incompetent troll.

    SPQR (39ad84)

  9. Intelligence Director James Clapper says shutdown hurts national security Clapper,
    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (a1e8fb) — 10/3/2013 @ 8:24 am

    I saw a clip where he said that in 50 years of being involved in intelligence he had never seen anything like this.
    Well, knowing that there have been quite a few shutdowns over the past 50 years, including some at least several weeks long, I figured he doesn’t know as much as he thinks he does, he is lying, or this is yet another area where Obama is making things worse than they have to be.

    Of course, I generally don’t have a lot of confidence in high level Obama appointees to start with.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  10. Well, given that we’ve already caught Clapper in more than one lie to Congress …

    SPQR (39ad84)

  11. Oh, and Tladoc, the House passed a measure last spring that would have prioritized debt payments in the event of reaching the debt ceiling – thereby preventing default.

    Harry Reid made sure it died in the Senate.

    Democrats want default. Democrats want shutdown. Democrats want lower employment under Obamacare.

    That’s the plain message of the Democrats’ actions.

    SPQR (39ad84)

  12. Not sure if the Dems really want to default, but they do want to destroy the Repub party so they can reign unopposed,
    and they don’t mind a default and a national catastrophe if they get what they want.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  13. “Heartless” Harry Reid
    misanthropic extremist
    mangy coyote

    Colonel Haiku (08d79d)

  14. That clinking sound you may hear is the GOP’s choke chain getting yanked by a dozen irate bank CEOs.

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc)

    Probably the first time this 1%er ever wrote those last four words without tears in his eyes…

    Colonel Haiku (08d79d)

  15. Notice all those Park Service preprinted signs about it? Those don’t get printed overnight.

    Yes if only there were the technology to print paper signs in less than a day…

    Its the Democrats who are having bad press

    Somebody hasn’t seen the polling obviously…

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  16. Democrats want default. Democrats want shutdown. Democrats want lower employment under Obamacare.

    Strangely the public believes none of those things. So what is your genius plan to convince them of your view?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  17. “How did Nixon win, nobody I know voted for him?”

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  18. Heartless” Harry Reid
    misanthropic extremist
    mangy coyote ></blockquote

    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/10/03/dingy_harry_reid_on_helping_kids_with_cancer_why_would_we_want_to_do_that

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  19. “Harry Reid won’t even brings those bills up for a vote.”

    The Senate already passed the bill funding those. The House won’t allow a vote on that.

    cmer (ee5cc5)

  20. “Notice all those Park Service preprinted signs about it? Those don’t get printed overnight.”

    You do know that agencies were told to prepare for the shutdown, right?

    cmer (ee5cc5)

  21. Buh bye, iamadimwit. Seek help.

    JD (20d20a)

  22. Tlaloc, your head may not be filled with wisdom, but you’re still probably smart enough to navigate modern life without the federal government’s largesse.

    Give it a try.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  23. ES-
    personally I’ve found a well run government to be a great boon to me getting to live my life in general. Now if you want to try an experiment in anarchism I could be amenable to that, but of course you don’t mean that, you only want to get rid of the parts of government that help other people, just like the rest of tea party hypocrites with their “keep your government hands off my medicare” signs.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  24. Err, where did you find the well run government? I’d like one too.

    nk (dbc370)

  25. TaLaLa’s OccupyOuthouse, one-percenterisms… yay!

    Colonel Haiku (b364a1)

  26. Well Sudanese internet.

    narciso (3fec35)

  27. “the rest of tea party hypocrites with their “keep your government hands off my medicare” signs.”

    This lefty myth has been debunked 100 times.

    MikeK (dc6ffe)

  28. Lefty says: “Two days in and you are already scrambling to avoid bad press by undoing the shutdown one piece at a time. So much for all those predictions, huh?

    But the dems have no reason to let you walk it back a piece at a time. The shutdown is massively unpopular and the lion’s share of the blame is falling squarely on the right, just as everyone not named Cruz knew it would.”

    Actually, it is going better than I feared. Just put Harry Reid on TV every day, shut down parks that are NOT funded by the USA and other clumsy stunts and we will do just fine.

    MikeK (dc6ffe)

  29. Since we’re talking about essential services and Senators from Guam, is Eleanor Holmes, the DC do-nothing, getting paid?

    nk (dbc370)

  30. 15. …Somebody hasn’t seen the polling obviously…

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 4:15 pm

    That somebody isn’t Barack Obama. He’s seen the polling results.

    So now the Whiner-in-chief is b****ing about how too many Americans are blaming both sides instead of doing what President Svengali wants them to do and just only blame Republicans.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  31. This lefty myth has been debunked 100 times.

    You can debunk photos? Cool story, bro.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  32. nk, Holmes declared that her entire staff was “essential”.

    A “delegate” to the House, with no constitutional status at all, and no voting authority, has “essential” staff …

    SPQR (768505)

  33. Actually, it is going better than I feared. Just put Harry Reid on TV every day, shut down parks that are NOT funded by the USA and other clumsy stunts and we will do just fine.

    If you say so. Polling says otherwise, of course. And Boehner is getting ready to cave. Care for a gentleman’s bet that by this time next week you guys will have lost and gotten nothing you couldn’t have had before hand in return?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  34. What country does Tlaloc live in?

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  35. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BaF5ROfu0s

    McDonald’s Employee Admits Being Paid $15 to Protest WW2 Vets

    Fake federal workers are protesting the shutdown.

    Winning, Tlaloc!

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  36. Thanks to Obamanomics the part-time nation formerly known as the US of A has plenty of minimum wage workers eager for the chance to pretend to be gub’mint employees so they can get paid to protest.

    This is now your best career option.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  37. Tlaloc:

    I will give you this: If the Republicans do what they usually do, you are probably right.

    Government by polling got us here. Government by respecting constituents wishes might be the way to go.

    Your elected representatives may differ from mine.

    Also, if ordinary people really paid attention to politics and watched Harry Reid on a regular basis, they might be a little creeped out. That’s just my personal opinion, not really an argument.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  38. personally I’ve found a well run government to be a great boon to me getting to live my life in general. Now if you want to try an experiment in anarchism I could be amenable to that, but of course you don’t mean that,

    Because, you know, that is the choice we face: either the massive, wasteful and intrusive government we have today or total anarchy. There is no in-between.

    Sorry, chaps, but you have to deal with the rank politicization of the IRS under Lois Lerner and the gross abuses of surveillance at the NSA, because the alternative is that seniors die in the streets and the National Parks turn into Hooters-themed casinos.

    JVW (93c84b)

  39. Tlaloc:

    You mad bro?

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  40. Tlaloc, you came back. We gotta stop meeting like this. Where were we…oh yeah, your assertion number 2, IIRC:

    Okay, you admit the first part of your statement was…let’s say…not true, a mere hyperbole. Very good, I truly did not think you had it in you.

    Now let us move to the second part of your original assertion, which you now say is NOT hyperbole, and that there are “many” who said this “time and time again” (told ya we would come back to it):

    “…that defunding was the very last chance to stop obamacare…”

    Cite them.

    @180 Comment by Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 10/1/2013 @ 10:20 pm

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  41. personally I’ve found a well run government to be a great boon to me getting to live my life in general.

    Flailoc, as someone who spent 20 years in the Navy let me inform you you’re insane.

    If the government was running well it just meant it wasn’t screwing me one way or another. Since it wasn’t well run, it was constantly screwing with me. They’d lose my medical records, forcing me to get every single vaccination I needed to go to some tropical hellhole two or three times, d*** up the travel arrangements by buying me a ticket to that tropical hellhole leaving tonight from St. Louis without ever asking the question how I’m supposed to make that work since I’m in Norfolk, and then there’s the pay. You’ve never experienced the joy of being flat broke in a foreign country on a Friday and having a disbursing clerk look over the evidence that says, no seriously, I’m supposed to be getting paid something and tell you, “You’re right, sir. We f***ed up. Now you have a problem.”

    Then he closes the service window because it’s 4:00pm.

    And now despite decades of experience proving otherwise I’m supposed to suspend my disbelief and listen to you telling me that putting the government in charge of my health care, AGAIN, is going to enhance my life.

    What kind of crack are you smoking?

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  42. “you only want to get rid of the parts of government that help other people, just like the rest of tea party”

    Sometimes you just have to wait for true colors. All they know is what their buddies and the media says.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  43. Government by polling got us here. Government by respecting constituents wishes might be the way to go.

    And what exactly is “government by respecting constituents”?

    Your elected representatives may differ from mine.

    Probably, just playing the odds we’re likely in different states. I’m in Oregon FWIW.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  44. Because, you know, that is the choice we face: either the massive, wasteful and intrusive government we have today or total anarchy. There is no in-between.

    well if you call what we have today massive and intrusive, then yeah, because you are pretty obviously out of touch with reality.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  45. Thanks to the miracle of the Federal government, you can’t open a bank account in Europe.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/reaction-to-us-tax-law-european-banks-stop-serving-american-customers-a-803742.html

    Reaction to US Tax Law: European Banks Stop Serving American Customers

    European banks are dumping clients with US citizenship due to a new American law meant to curb tax evasion. The law would require financial institutions around the world to report on certain client activities. Compliance, say many banks, is way too expensive.

    Ooh, yeah, Flailoc. Tell me another story about how this crowd is going to be a great boon to me living my life in general if I just let them run the health care system like they’re taking charge of the banking system.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  46. 45. …well if you call what we have today massive and intrusive, then yeah, because you are pretty obviously out of touch with reality.

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 8:18 pm

    How is a gub’mint that engineers regulations that make it just too expensive and complicated for foreign banks to let Americans living overseas to open bank accounts not massive and intrusive?

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  47. Government by respecting constituents means doing what you were elected to do. It does work both ways.

    I’m sure your representatives are doing as you wish. So are mine.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  48. Yeah, Barack Obama! Go team! Increasing America’s competitiveness in the world market unlike that redneck George Bush by making it practically impossible to expand American exports overseas since 2009!

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  49. How is a gub’mint that engineers regulations that make it just too expensive and complicated for foreign banks to let Americans living overseas to open bank accounts not massive and intrusive?

    Well Steve, at least we have it on record that Tlaloc is peachy keen with the level of regulation and surveillance of today’s Federal Government. Of course should the GOP capture the White House in 2016, I’m guessing Tlaloc will suddenly change his tune.

    JVW (93c84b)

  50. I’m sure your representatives are doing as you wish. So are mine.

    Funny, I thought that we elected representatives so that they could take their orders from the New York Times editorial page and Robert Reich’s Twitter feed. What’s this bit about “representing your constituents” again?

    JVW (93c84b)

  51. Now let us move to the second part of your original assertion, which you now say is NOT hyperbole, and that there are “many” who said this “time and time again” (told ya we would come back to it):

    “…that defunding was the very last chance to stop obamacare…”

    Cite them.

    really?
    Marco Rubio:
    http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/blog/marco-rubio-last-chance-stop-obamacare-defunding-it

    Tea Party Patriots:
    http://www.teapartypatriots.org/2013/09/28-days-later/

    Mike Lee:
    http://www.nationaljournal.com/domesticpolicy/the-defund-obamacare-movement-falls-on-hard-times-20130818

    Rep Mark Meadows:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/19/house-republicans-obamacare_n_3953071.html

    Ted Cruz:
    http://www.glennbeck.com/2013/07/29/sen-ted-cruz-this-is-our-last-and-best-chance-to-stop-obamacare/

    That took 3 seconds of googling to find, which means either you knew I was right already and you’re just trying to waste my time or you’re completely clueless about your own side’s arguments.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  52. The idea was to ensure that US citizens were paying their taxes on investments made through overseas banks. The result, however, has been that Americans in Europe may have difficulties finding banks who want their business.

    According to a report in the Wednesday edition of the Financial Times Deutschland, several European banks have elected to no longer serve American securities investors due to stricter reporting requirements pushed through last year by the administration of President Barack Obama.

    German financial institution HypoVereinsbank has informed its customers that it will no longer offer certain services to its US-based clients or to US citizens as of Jan. 1. Deutsche Bank told the paper that it already cancelled such accounts held by American citizens in the middle of 2011. Germany’s second largest bank, Commerzbank, is considering a similar move. Customers with normal checking or savings accounts in Germany are not affected, however.

    British banking giant HSBC has also reported that it will no longer serve US investors as has the Swiss bank Credit Suisse.

    The reason for the sudden reticence to serve American clients is the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), which was passed in 2010 and will go into effect in January of 2013. The act requires all foreign banks to identify and report on US citizens with accounts holding more than $50,000 in an effort to clamp down on tax evasion. If banks refuse to comply, they could face a punitive 30 percent withholding tax on all payments from the US. The law is expected to increase tax revenues by $8 billion over the next 10 years.

    Nothing says boosting American competitiveness on the world market like making it impossible for Americans to compete with other people for investment opportunities.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  53. Flailoc, as someone who spent 20 years in the Navy let me inform you you’re insane.

    I have no argument with you on the military being pretty incompetent.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  54. Sometimes it hurts to face reality. Lefty Frizell wrote it and Robert Duvall sold it

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  55. The expected increase of $8 billion over ten years which is the budgetary equivalent of pissing into the ocean doesn’t account for the opportunity costs which the CBO isn’t allowed to score.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  56. How is a gub’mint that engineers regulations that make it just too expensive and complicated for foreign banks to let Americans living overseas to open bank accounts not massive and intrusive?

    Because you are talking about regs that affect maybe .0001% of americans and were made necessary by people attempting to hide money and illegally evade their due taxes. You might as well b*tch about border crossings…

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  57. I have no argument with you on the military being pretty incompetent.

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 8:31 pm

    That’s the one part of the federal government which on the whole is somewhat competent.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  58. Government by respecting constituents means doing what you were elected to do. It does work both ways.

    Alright, and how do you know what they were elected to do? Do you look at what they campaigned on (how many reps campaigned on shutting down the government btw?) or do you look at the will of the people who elected them, say, maybe by aggregating their opinions through a scientific well controlled method?

    What is the term for that, I forget?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  59. So, we get to pick and choose government incompetence to advance our agendas.

    That has never happened before. Thank you for opening our minds, Tlaloc.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  60. That’s the one part of the federal government which on the whole is somewhat competent.

    I know some Iraqis who’d disagree.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  61. Well, all I know about it is that I voted for Ted Cruz and he has exceeded my expectations. I would be a die hard republican is half its elected members had half the spine he does.

    Dustin (303dca)

  62. 56. …Because you are talking about regs that affect maybe .0001% of americans and were made necessary by people attempting to hide money and illegally evade their due taxes. You might as well b*tch about border crossings…

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 8:34 pm

    This is the functional equivalent of arguing it’s not right to blame Barack Obama for the new requirement that in order to get a passport you must be castrated.

    Blame those sex tourists who forced Barack Obama and the Democrats to make that rule.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  63. That has never happened before. Thank you for opening our minds, Tlaloc.

    I have no idea what that’s in reference to. It’d help if you quoted what you were replying to in your post.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  64. What country does Tlaloc live in?

    Well, if it’s not already a sty — a big dump — like a Mexico, Greece, Venezuela or a Detroit or Chicago stretched like shrink wrap to cover the entire continent, then that’s where it’s headed.

    Clueless liberals like the person you mention don’t irk me as much if they’re at least employed by the government. IOW, if they’re at least getting something out of a Faustian bargain. But when they’re merely proles grinding away the hours in the private sector, that’s when one realizes they are the ultimate suckers, the ultimate fools.

    Mark (58ea35)

  65. Well, all I know about it is that I voted for Ted Cruz and he has exceeded my expectations. I would be a die hard republican is half its elected members had half the spine he does.

    Actually that’d work pretty badly. Cruz’s schtick only works because he’s one of only a few doing it. He gets to play the diva and showboat for the hard right without ever accomplishing anything. Meanwhile the rest of the GOP muddles on and tries to get stuff done, but their life is harder for Cruz being around. What’s more this is the only role Cruz can play. He obviously lacks the skills to be a real leader and instead relies on bullying people through the mob.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  66. 60. …I know some Iraqis who’d disagree.

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 8:38 pm

    No you don’t.

    In any case if anyone was incompetent it was the part of the government that decided it was the military’s job to set up city councils and establish democracy.

    Which wasn’t the military’s idea.

    The military’s idea was to destroy the Iraqi army. Which we proved pretty good at.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  67. Clueless liberals like the person you mention don’t irk me as much if they’re at least employed by the government. IOW, if they’re at least getting something out of a Faustian bargain. But when they’re merely proles grinding away the hours in the private sector, that’s when one realizes they are the ultimate suckers, the ultimate fools.

    Funny, libs feel the exact same way about the non-rich who vote republican- “why do they vote against their own interests?”

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  68. It was illegal to move money overseas? Or falalalala wants it to be illegal?

    JD (3e5afb)

  69. Which wasn’t the military’s idea.

    The military isn’t aid to think. It’s paid to do a job, the job we tell them to do.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  70. bleh should be “paid”

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  71. Reading falalala is like reading a collection of Krugman’s most idiotic tweets and columns.

    JD (3e5afb)

  72. It was illegal to move money overseas? Or falalalala wants it to be illegal?

    Ask Ty Warner.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  73. Hate-filled leftists are just precious. Bless your little heart, sperm god.

    JD (3e5afb)

  74. Apparently the White House isn’t paid to think, either. They are paid to say No.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  75. Alright, and how do you know what they were elected to do? Do you look at what they campaigned on (how many reps campaigned on shutting down the government btw?) or do you look at the will of the people who elected them, say, maybe by aggregating their opinions through a scientific well controlled method?

    Probably few if any of them campaigned on shutting down the government, but a whole hell of a lot of them campaigned on reversing the disastrous course of ObamaCare and trying to get our fiscal house in order. If the slowdown is the best method by which to accomplish this, then so be it.

    I guess we’ll know for sure in about 13 months how this plays out. You seem to be operating under the belief that there are a number of Congressional districts who elected Republicans to Congress but are dismayed with the slowdown, blame the GOP and plan to send a Democrat to Washington as a replacement. That is a possibility.

    The other possibility is that the end of this slowdown combined with Obama’s lackluster year and the almost certain continued disaster of ObamaCare will once and for all break the spell that Obama seems to hold over starry-eyed liberals and callow youth. Once that happens, your allies could be in for the same kind of whoopin’ that the Republicans took in 2006 and 2008. Time will tell.

    JVW (93c84b)

  76. No. You declared it to be illegal, when what they are trying to do is close a “loophole” in the insanely convoluted tax structure. You want it to be illegal, but it is not.

    SQUIRREL!!!!

    JD (3e5afb)

  77. The military is paid to advise the civilian leadership of what jobs it’s capable of doing.

    If the civilian leadership doesn’t pay attention that’s not the military’s fault.

    Anyway, this is why I point out you must be lying when you claim to know Iraqis who think the US military is incompetent. That would require you to know Iraqis, but no one in the military. Because we are paid to think.

    There is more to the world than is dreamt of in your stereotypes, Horatio.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  78. Given that Boehner has all but said the only thing stopping him from offering a clean CR is the potential challenge to his leadership what Pelosi should do is offer him a deal where he provides dems with votes for a clean CR, possibly at pre-sequester levels, and she offers him Dem votes to remain speaker.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  79. “Alright, and how do you know what they were elected to do? Do you look at what they campaigned on (how many reps campaigned on shutting down the government btw?) or do you look at the will of the people who elected them, say, maybe by aggregating their opinions through a scientific well controlled method?”

    So, this is like the AT&T commercial where the comedian asks kids which is better, faster or slower.

    I know my elected officials are doing something that I specifically elected them to do. That’s kind of how elections work. Why in the world would any elected official legislate on a well-controlled scientific method?

    No one runs on shutting down the government. Is that what you mean? Most politicians run on making the government better. We leave it up to them to decide on the best way to do that.

    Some may do things in a way that you or I don’t like. That’s why there is always another election.

    I have no idea what your term is, but I’m sure you will inform me.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  80. he military isn’t aid to think. It’s paid to do a job, the job we tell them to do.

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @

    I can tell you never served. You sound like Obama rubbing on his inadequacy a little bit, calling the military “my military”.

    The military definitely does get paid to think. They are also far more educated than the general population.

    You’ve been misled by Hollywood and the MSM.

    Dustin (303dca)

  81. Time will tell.

    We’ll get some hints before 2014. The three races in Virginia for one. BTW at least 4 VA reps have come forward begging the GOP to give up the shutdwon because they see it as badly hurting their chances.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  82. Were paid to think. Since I’m no longer in the service.

    Every other federal department can afford not to think, because they’re going home to their families at the end of the day.

    In the military (and technically the naval service is not military although that distinction seems to have been lost) you have to be able to think how you’re going to make the s*** sandwich you’ve been handed work out the best possible way because you’re not going home you’re going to have to live with it.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  83. Remember when SanFranNan was confident that we would remain Speaker? That is what falalala reminds me of.

    JD (3e5afb)

  84. Tlaloc:

    “I have no argument with you on the military being pretty incompetent.”

    By inference, you pick and choose the incompetence you like based on your statement.

    By inference, you said you like how the government works.

    That’s pretty simple. Sorry it went over your head.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  85. Because we are paid to think.

    It’s cute that you really think that, but no. It’s like an ant colony. Soldier ants are the ablative armor for the nest.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  86. I can tell you never served.

    No, I test well.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  87. You are really covering yourself in glory tonight, falalala.

    JD (3e5afb)

  88. BTW at least 4 VA reps have come forward begging the GOP to give up the shutdwon because they see it as badly hurting their chances.

    Gosh, was that the same conversation where Boehner admitted that the only reason he was sticking with the slowdown is because it was a challenge to his speakership?

    How come 20-30 House Democrats keep abandoning their party to vote “Aye” on the piecemeal bills that the GOP leadership is passing? Might they be a little bit afraid of tying themselves to the Obama/Pelosi/Reid Triumvirate of Twerps?

    JVW (93c84b)

  89. By inference, you pick and choose the incompetence you like based on your statement.

    Ah, no I’d really rather the military were competent. But you know what they say about military-intelligence.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  90. but their life is harder for Cruz being around.

    Let us worry about Cruz. You worry about Harry Reid and Barbara Boxer.

    Mark (58ea35)

  91. How come 20-30 House Democrats keep abandoning their party to vote “Aye” on the piecemeal bills that the GOP leadership is passing? Might they be a little bit afraid of tying themselves to the Obama/Pelosi/Reid Triumvirate of Twerps?

    There’s not much risk for them, they know the senate has things covered, so if it helps them for 2014 to make a few trophy votes, why not?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  92. Oh my goodness. I just looked up what Tlaloc means based on JD’s earlier post.

    I am sincerely sorry for responding and continuing this silliness.

    Next?

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  93. There’s not much risk for them, they know the senate has things covered, so if it helps them for 2014 to make a few trophy votes, why not?

    If the Democrats are standing on principle, and if they have the American public behind them, why wouldn’t they have complete party unity on this issue? Are you trying to suggest that the Democrats are playing politics with the slowdown? Next thing you know, Harry Reid will be refusing to fund children’s cancer treatments through the NIH.

    JVW (93c84b)

  94. Sorry, Ag80

    JD (3e5afb)

  95. For Flailoc:

    http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/J/c/1/kerry_iraq_soldiers.jpg

    It’s always a pleasure to listen to people like him talk about their inferiors in the service.

    But, Iraqis! He knows a bunch of Iraqis!

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  96. If the Democrats are standing on principle, and if they have the American public behind them, why wouldn’t they have complete party unity on this issue?

    Well,
    A) there are always representatives in congressional districts that they don’t quite fit. It’s easy to imagine a dem in a red seat trying to shore up votes ahead of 2014.

    B) we can turn your argument right around and ask the same of the GOP. Notice the Dems have been far more unified than the right. Says something, huh?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  97. Funny, libs feel the exact same way about the non-rich who vote republican- “why do they vote against their own interests?”

    Interesting that you mention that, which is a concept that was aimed at me by a liberal (a classic “limousine liberal,” btw) who I was arguing with last year. The dope assumed I’d be better off going with Obama, et al, and that I’d be in worse shape with a Republican back in the White House.

    Almost a year later, I’m looking at bigger income taxes, a greedier, more corrupt IRS (which is now known to harass a larger percentage of modest- or moderate-income Americans because it’s legally easier to spook them than the people in the jet-set class—with their bigwig accountants and high-priced attorneys), and the abomination that is Obamacare—with an economy to boot that’s grimacing from crud like that.

    Ultimately, the most sickening thing about liberals like you is you are far more unhappy about the wealthy not paying more in taxes than you are about all the schulubs of America paying too much.

    Mark (58ea35)

  98. It’s OK, JD. Arguing with art-major baristas is always a lost cause,

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  99. Every other federal department can afford not to think, because they’re going home to their families at the end of the day.

    In the military (and technically the naval service is not military although that distinction seems to have been lost) you have to be able to think how you’re going to make the s*** sandwich you’ve been handed work out the best possible way because you’re not going home you’re going to have to live with it.

    Comment by Steve57 (234b9e) — 10/3/2013

    Well said. I regret feeding the troll, though.

    Dustin (303dca)

  100. Ah, no I’d really rather the military were competent. But you know what they say about military-intelligence.

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 8:59 pm

    You mean the specialty that was critical to winning the Battle of Midway?

    Who the f*** is this “they” that tells you what to think, Flailoc?

    Those mythical Iraqis you say you know?

    Have “they” similarly run down the legal profession for coming up with the Dred Scott, Plessy v Furgeson, or Korematsu decisions? Or for that matter FDR, who thunk up the executive that made the Korematsu decision possible in the first place?

    No, no, no. FDR and the members of the judicial monastery went to all the right schools. So that means they’re geniuses. Unlike the high school grads and their ag college O’s that can figure out how to keep F-15s flying long past their sell-by date.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  101. And a joke flies way over Steve’s head. No shocker there.

    But I take pity on you Steve, see “military-intelligence” is one of Carlin’s examples of an oxymoron.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  102. Ultimately, the most sickening thing about liberals like you is you are far more unhappy about the wealthy not paying more in taxes than you are about all the schulubs of America paying too much.

    That would be sickening…if it were true.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  103. *…who thunk up the executive order that made…*

    Dustin @99, I don’t intend to feed the troll. In fact in case it’s not obvious he doesn’t bother me. It’s not possible for Flailoc to get under my skin. Better men have tried.

    I’m just enjoying mocking him.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  104. Tlaloc:

    Notice the Dems have been far more unified than the right. Says something, huh?

    It tells me that Obama and the Democrats want a government shutdown.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  105. Oh, goody. Now in addition to ‘splainin how the government can enhance my life he’s filling me in on George Carlin jokes.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  106. Do tell, do tell.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  107. It tells me that Obama and the Democrats want a government shutdown.

    Such a pity then that americans by and large blame your party. I can see where that’d rankle. I mean it’s not like your party has been cheerleading for a shutdown for years now…

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  108. Steve, if you want people to believe you aren’t foaming at the mouth enraged while posting it helps if you don’t start swearing all the time. It’s what we adults call a “tell.”

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  109. Do you really think conservatives aren’t used to facing Democratic lies? It may take longer for us to prevail but the truth really does set you free, Tlaloc.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  110. So you think George Carlin was foaming at the mouth enraged when he came up with his “Seven dirty words you can’t say on TV” skit?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vbZhpf3sQxQ

    Do tell, do tell. In addition to learning about the military from you, I am foaming at the mouth eager to learn about George Carlin from you, since you brought him up.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  111. Speak louder, Mr. Tlaloc! Fill the room with your intelligence!

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  112. Do you really think conservatives aren’t used to facing Democratic lies? It may take longer for us to prevail but the truth really does set you free, Tlaloc.

    Again it helps if you qute what you are responding to.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  113. Tell me about the space hammers where the gub’mint workers add value, Flailoc.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  114. So you think George Carlin was foaming at the mouth enraged when he came up with his “Seven dirty words you can’t say on TV” skit?

    Two things-
    A) Yes anger motivated a lot of Carlin’s humor, and

    B) you’re no George Carlin

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  115. Tell me about the space hammers where the gub’mint workers add value, Flailoc.

    Case in point.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  116. Mister Tlaloc, here is a dime. Take it, call your mother, and tell her there is serious doubt about you ever becoming serious.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  117. Dustin @99, I don’t intend to feed the troll. In fact in case it’s not obvious he doesn’t bother me. It’s not possible for Flailoc to get under my skin. Better men have tried.

    I’m just enjoying mocking him.

    Comment by Steve57 (234b9e) — 10/3/2013

    I would be a huge hypocrite to have a problem with you engaging a troll. I just have tried hard to resist (and compared to the past I’ve been successful).

    You can tell he has set out to get a rise out of good people and destroy the rest of the conversation. It is not possible to thwart that kind of trolling. I’ve seen a lot of commenters try (MD in Philly used to be rather valiant about it), but it is always much easier to destroy than to build.

    Dustin (303dca)

  118. Tlaloc,

    Obama and the Democrats are lying when they say they don’t want the government to shut down. They want it badly because they think it will help them politically.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  119. You can tell he has set out to get a rise out of good people and destroy the rest of the conversation.

    Actually I haven’t. If you notice in the vast majority of conversations I’m in I’m the only or primary person providing evidence backing up my claims.

    At the same time I basically treat people the way they treat me. A number of posters here are very hostile, I have no problem being hostile in return. If you want (and can manage) to have a nice civil conversation I’m perfectly happy to reciprocate.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  120. Obama and the Democrats are lying when they say they don’t want the government to shut down. They want it badly because they think it will help them politically.

    If Obama wanted the government to shutdown it’d be trivial for him to shut it down. What you seem to mean is Obama wants the right to shut down the government so he can ride the resultant backlash.

    Well, yeah. Don’t we all wish for our enemies to make mistakes? That doesn’t change the fact that it’s the right causing the shutdown.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  121. What country does Tlaloc live in?

    Comment by Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 10/3/2013 @ 7:48 pm

    Lives in Honah Lee he does! Gets there by Puffing on magic dragons he does!

    Yoda (ee1de0)

  122. A number of posters here are very hostile,

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 9:55 pm

    Here’s some hostility for you biatch!

    …………………./´¯/)
    ………………..,/¯../
    ………………./…./
    …………./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`•¸
    ………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
    ……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
    ………\……………..’…../
    ……….”…\………. _.•´
    …………\…………..(
    …………..\………….\.

    Yoda (ee1de0)

  123. Thank you for proving my point.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  124. The degree to which the public blames the GOP for the shutdown is way overrated. According to a CBS poll — and Tlaloc lives by poll data — the public blames the GOP over the Dems by a percentage margin of 44-35, which is pretty much the same as the pre-slowdown split. This means if you take a random sample of 20 people, 9 think it’s the GOP’s fault, 7 think it’s the Dems fault, and 4 have no opinion.

    So if you think that anger over the shutdown is going to bring the low-information Obama voter out to the polls in November 2014, you had better hope for a get-out-the-vote drive equal to what the Dems do in Presidential years. That may be hard without Dear Leader at the top of the ballot. I have a suspicion that if the House GOP keeps passing the piecemeal funding bills only to have them stalled in the Senate, at some point that 20% with no opinion might start to wonder if it isn’t the Dems who are pushing this to the brink.

    JVW (93c84b)

  125. I may not be George Carlin, but nobody lasts 20 years in the service without a sense of humor. Any service.

    Or the prodigious application of profanity.

    http://www.songlyrics.com/monty-python/bright-side-of-life-lyrics/

    Back in the Falklands war after the Argentinians succeeded in putting an Exocet into the HMS Sheffield the sailors were gathered on deck getting ready to abandon ship with the fires burning out of control. Apparently the ship was cooking up pretty good. Since the deck was becoming too hot to stand on they started hopping around from one foot to another.

    Then they broke out in song. That song.

    Which if you read the lyrics includes words like “s***.” Oh noes! Cuss words. From Sailors.

    I guess they were foaming at the mouth enraged, too.

    My favorite George Washington quote, directed at one of his senior officers who wasn’t doing his part to balance the load as they were crossing the Delaware.

    “Shift your fat a**, Henry, you’re going to swamp the g******ed boat.”

    He gets to be father of the country. I’m called foaming at the mouth enraged.

    This is sheer discrimination. I protest.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  126. The degree to which the public blames the GOP for the shutdown is way overrated.

    Consider that the GOP was given 50-50 odds to take back the senate in a number of forecasts early this year. Since then their odds have seemed to decline slightly. Under those circumstances a 44-35 split on a big issue could very well turn any hopes of regaining the Senate into ash. Further consider that the next senate cycle (2016) favors the dems to pick up seats (as in there are more rep seats up for votes than dems).

    With the demographic tides running against the GOP it simply cannot afford to put itself on the wrong side of the electorate if it wants to win national races.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  127. And yes, I know, in addition to not being George Carlin I’m no George Washington.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  128. It does save time when you just go ahead and zing yourself, Steve. Much appreciated.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  129. Thank you for proving I have a pointy head.

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 10:01 pm

    Your welcome.

    Yoda (ee1de0)

  130. Oops, “you’re”

    Yoda (ee1de0)

  131. What part was the “zing?”

    The part where I admitted to not being George Carlin or the part where I admitted to not being George Washington?

    OK, to avoid “zinging” myself in the future I’m going to call myself the reincarnation of Caesar Augustus.

    Better?

    Yours truly, the foaming at the mouth enraged Steve57 Caesar Augustus.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  132. You know, Flailoc, Octavian just wasn’t the kind of guy you wanted to get mad at you.

    Just saying.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  133. I came. I saw. A small boy tried to hump my leg.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/Statue-Augustus.jpg/220px-Statue-Augustus.jpg

    I believe his name was Tlaloc.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  134. Consider that the GOP was given 50-50 odds to take back the senate in a number of forecasts early this year. Since then their odds have seemed to decline slightly. Under those circumstances [yada, yada, yada].

    THe CBS poll was conducted on a random group of 1000+ homes, with both landlines and cellphones. It was not normalized to reflect who would be likely voters in 2014. I’ll say it again, if Dems get a voter turnout like they did in 2008 and 2012, they will do very well. If they get a 2010 voter turnout, they are toast.

    But hey, pre-election polls had the Colorado recall elections sparking a huge backlash that was going to drive progressive pro-gun control voters to the polls to save Morse and Giron. That didn’t quite happen, did it, even though Denver and Boulder Dems were really angry at the GOP for forcing this recall.

    JVW (93c84b)

  135. I came. I saw. A small boy tried to hump my leg.

    I believe his name was Tlaloc.

    Comment by Steve57 (234b9e) — 10/3/2013 @ 10:24 pm

    More like pissing on your leg and telling you it is raining, it is!

    Yoda (ee1de0)

  136. I’ll say it again, if Dems get a voter turnout like they did in 2008 and 2012, they will do very well. If they get a 2010 voter turnout, they are toast.

    It’s most likely to be somewhere between those two extremes.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  137. Actually I haven’t. If you notice in the vast majority of conversations I’m in I’m the only or primary person providing evidence backing up my claims.

    @119 Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 9:55 pm

    Assuming, I’m in I’m = I’m, then: False, see #41.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  138. Re: @41– That’s what I thought, Tlaloc.

    personally I’ve found a well run government to be a great boon to me getting to live my life in general.

    @23 Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 7:08 pm

    Sounds like someone who never had to fear a knock on the door late at night because he wrote something that someone else disagreed.

    Or felt the fear of enemy troops kicking in his door and taking his family.

    Or never knew a day in his life where the police/fire/ambulance/hospital wasn’t but a phone call away.

    Or knew a day of hunger.

    Or knew a culture that views life has cheap.

    Or never was forced to wear the uniform of your country and sent into combat where the smell of sh1t and blood will permanently stain your memory. Rather, you can stay safe at home and mock those who do serve, belittle them if your personal philosophy and ethics allow it (and since you are a Democrat/liberal, it is not only allowed, but encouraged). And condemn them in perfect safety.

    What your nation provided you was an optimal balance between freedom and security, between tyranny and anarchy, between charity and dependency, and on and on…in short: a Republic that you did not have to lift a finger to build.

    Those dangers mentioned above (and more) exist every day all over the world, but here they are all but unimaginable.

    This did not happen by magic, but by blood, sweat and tears.

    And now, you Tlaloc — who is smarter than those that built a nation and changed a world for the better, and died trying, made mistakes, and then died trying again, and made mistakes…; who bled, sweated and cried; who used the lessons of history, often spelled in blood, with great thought and sacrifice to achieve a balance of competing forces and ideals that made this nation for you ; who warned you in a hundred different ways that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely — you think the Obmama-way — all the falsehoods, corruption, and partisanship — is the way to go.

    The difference between you and me:
    You are never wrong, but I often am.

    The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.
    -Alexis de Tocqueville

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  139. Uh, okay. Your link was to something I said in an effort to embarrass me. I responded with 4 or 5 links to supporting info at which point you promptly dropped the topic.

    How does this not support my statement that I’m either the only or the primary person providing evidence to back up my claims?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  140. Your link was to something I said in an effort to embarrass me.

    How does that work, Flailoc, sez the commenter now known as Steve57 Caesar Augustus.

    Somehow I’m the fool “zinging” myself when I admit to not be George Carlin, but you’re the clever chap when you talk about your own attempts to embarrass yourself.

    Here’s the “tell,” you great big adult you.

    WTFO?!?!

    Take your time.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  141. Probably, just playing the odds we’re likely in different states. I’m in Oregon FWIW.
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 8:16 pm

    In or very near Eugene I bet. The west coast mirror to Ocala, Florida.

    Stashiu3 (e7ebd8)

  142. Not trying to embarrass you Tlaloc, IMHO that is not possible.

    You asserted:

    …that defunding was the very last chance to stop obamacare…

    And subsequently claimed that “many” conservatives had made that claim “over and over again.”

    Cite them.

    PS: For this issue, what links? I missed them. If true please cite the thread and comment #.

    PPS: And no Tlaloc, I have never dropped this subject with you, not for an instant:

    http://patterico.com/2013/09/28/defunding-strategy-gives-way-to-delay-for-better-or-for-worse/comment-page-2/#comment-1305538
    http://patterico.com/2013/09/28/defunding-strategy-gives-way-to-delay-for-better-or-for-worse/comment-page-6/#comment-1305765
    http://patterico.com/2013/09/30/obamacare-shutdown-and-lying-liars/comment-page-5/#comment-1306883
    http://patterico.com/2013/10/01/shutdown-day-1/comment-page-2/#comment-1307325
    http://patterico.com/2013/10/01/shutdown-day-1/comment-page-8/#comment-1307324

    You finally reply that your first assertion is really hyperbole (followed by how ignorant I am for not knowing that and therefore the rest of your assertions are like solid, or something). I accept you admission and proceed to ask you about your next assertion:

    http://patterico.com/2013/10/01/shutdown-day-1/comment-page-8/#comment-1307545

    You then disappeared for a day or two and finally bubbled up here, where I “remind” you:

    http://patterico.com/2013/10/03/which-party-has-voted-to-fund-national-parks-and-cancer-research/comment-page-6/#comment-1308832

    PPPS:

    How does this not support my statement that I’m either the only or the primary person providing evidence to back up my claims?

    Uh, Tlaloc, you provided ZERO evidence to your assertions. That is why I have been tracking this over what, FOUR threads now.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  143. It’s possible you have a point about the military being incompetent.

    http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/09/report-one-ships-bridge-clue-whats-going/

    Report: No One On Ship’s Bridge Has Any Clue What’s Going On

    THE OCEAN, THE WORLD – Claiming it’s not their job or admitting that they simply can’t be bothered, sailors on the bridge of the carrier USS George H.W. Bush report that not a single man or woman among them has any idea where the ship is going, how fast it’s moving, or, for that matter, where it’s even located in the world.

    “I suppose you would expect me to have at least a tenuous grasp on what’s happening right now,” said helmsman Tim Peeler, “but the truth of the matter is I’ve been asleep for basically this entire watch… which I’d say is pretty normal, actually.”

    “Why, did I miss something?” he added, yawning. “Is it almost dinner?”

    According to the individuals who have spent the last few hours tallying farts, belching song lyrics, and one-upping each other’s mostly-false sex stories, bridge watches like this can be a “major drag.” What’s more, finding ways to pass the time that don’t involve incidentally absorbing any details whatsoever about the vessel or its whereabouts reportedly proves a daily challenge.

    “You know, I’ve never totally understood the difference between heading and bearing anyway, so I try to steer clear of conversations like this,” said the Bush’s navigator, Lt. Allen Thompson. “I’m sure somebody up here’s paying attention, though, so wanna see if I can count to a billion?

    Just not likely. But what do I know? I’m a foaming at the mouth h8y h8r who doesn’t learn everything about the Navy from the Onion, like sophisticates like you. But I didn’t get a degree in Frisbee with a minor in rollerblading from Haahvahd.

    But all happily confirm that a girl on the flight deck has got a great a**.

    Ok, that part serious. Because the “big eyes” can be put to no higher or finer use.

    http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_free_images/0420-0908-2520-3055_seaman_using_the_big_eyes_binoculars_on_an_aircraft_carrier_o.jpg

    “Hey, I don’t think she’s wearing any underwear.”

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  144. Oregon ‘the right to die’ state, home of Ear ‘Death Panels’ Blumenauer.

    narciso (3fec35)

  145. Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 3:51 pm
    You guys were dying for a shutdown, demanding a shutdown, insisting a shutdown would be painless, unnoticed, actually loved.
    — All lies. Pointing out the fact that we’ve survived previous shutdowns doesn’t mean that it’s the preferred state of affairs. And NO ONE claimed that it would be painless or unnoticed or ‘loved’.

    So what happened? Two days in and you are already scrambling to avoid bad press by undoing the shutdown one piece at a time. So much for all those predictions, huh?
    — Yeah, except for the prediction that you’d be talking out your ass about it. FROM THE BEGINNING it was “fund everything except Obamacare”; and that’s what they are trying to do.

    But the dems have no reason to let you walk it back a piece at a time. The shutdown is massively unpopular and the lion’s share of the blame is falling squarely on the right, just as everyone not named Cruz knew it would.
    — Thanks for admitting that the Dems are playing political games; demanding that the government be funded, and then NOT voting to authorize spending bills that fund the government.

    So enjoy your shutdown. Revel in your bad press. And get ready for Boehner to cave because the big business types have started waking up to the fact that the tea party is in fact crazy enough to cause a default on the US debt and plunge the world into a new recession.
    — That’s right, the party OF fiscal responsibility super secretly wants us to be fiscally irresponsible. They weren’t clevers enough to hides it from you, though, were they!

    That clinking sound you may hear is the GOP’s choke chain getting yanked by a dozen irate bank CEOs.
    — All of whom are strong Obamacare supporters, no doubt.
    [eye roll]

    Icy (c5d6fc)

  146. just like the rest of tea party hypocrites with their “keep your government hands off my medicare” signs.
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 7:08 pm

    — Yeah, it IS the height of hypocrisy to demand that the government NOT rob us of the money that they already stole from us, isn’t it?

    And what exactly is “government by respecting constituents”?
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 8:16 pm

    — Think, the opposite of what Harry Reid does.

    well if you call what we have today massive and intrusive, then yeah, because you are pretty obviously out of touch with reality.
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 8:18 pm

    — So, just to get this straight, you think that right now we have small government … AND you like it that way?

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 8:36 pm
    Alright, and how do you know what they were elected to do? Do you look at what they campaigned on
    — Yes, if you’re an adult that pays attention.

    (how many reps campaigned on shutting down the government btw?)
    — None. Now, if you were to ask the non-disingenuous question “How many reps campaigned on shutting down Obamacare?” . . .

    or do you look at the will of the people who elected them, say, maybe by aggregating their opinions through a scientific well controlled method? What is the term for that, I forget?
    — Yes, things WOULD be better if we just eliminated Congress altogether, and the president just wrote and signed all of our laws based on public policy polling. Good luck with that.

    Icy (c5d6fc)

  147. Funny, libs feel the exact same way about the non-rich who vote republican- “why do they vote against their own interests?”
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 8:44 pm

    — And WHAT, exactly, are the ‘interests’ of the non-rich?
    Standing in line for government handouts?
    Despising the rich, and desiring to have the government punish them for their richness?
    Being taxed and regulated by the government to the point where it makes it impossible for them to become rich themselves?

    Given that Boehner has all but said the only thing stopping him from offering a clean CR is the potential challenge to his leadership what Pelosi should do is offer him a deal where he provides dems with votes for a clean CR, possibly at pre-sequester levels, and she offers him Dem votes to remain speaker.
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 8:51 pm

    — What about a unicorn? IS a unicorn part of the deal?

    No, I test well.
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 8:58 pm

    — You probably look real stylin’ wearing mom jeans and a bike helmet, too.

    Notice the Dems have been far more unified than the right. Says something, huh?
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 9:09 pm

    — Yeah, it says something about groupthink and a lack of critical reasoning skills.

    Icy (c5d6fc)

  148. Actually I haven’t. If you notice in the vast majority of conversations I’m in I’m the only or primary person providing evidence backing up my claims.
    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 9:55 pm

    — Have you found those 18,000 Obamacare enrollees in Connecticut yet?

    Icy (c5d6fc)

  149. Have even 18,000 people nationwide enrolled?

    Pons – falalalalala had a comment in moderation. As did you. Lots of links. Both have been released. It appears to have tried to back up its assertions. The sperm god was spectacularly mendoucheous last night, pissing on the military.

    JD (3e5afb)

  150. 150. …The sperm god was spectacularly mendoucheous last night, pissing on the military.

    Comment by JD (3e5afb) — 10/4/2013 @ 5:32 am

    He tried. He failed. As per usual.

    I notice on planet Flailoc he’s under the impression that the GOP is in retreat mode because this isn’t working out for them.

    WTFO? (That’s one of those classic “tells.)

    Here’s Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul caught on a hot mike how it’s absolutely awful, as in mind numbingly stupid, for Tiger Beat to say over and over that he’s not going to negotiate and then try to blame the Republicans for being the obstructionists. And they say they think they GOP is going to win this thing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eziI4h3J0Eg

    In other news President Tin Ear has been complaining about the American people for blaming him along with the GOP in about equal measures for the shutdown. President I Won’t Negotiate is peeved that people aren’t buying his story that he bears no responsibility for the shutdown he caused because he couldn’t have his way and had to throw a tantrum, and blaming the American people for not doing what he tells them and place the entire blame on the GOP.

    President My Way Or The Highway has broken out the blamethrower again. It’s the only weapon in his arsenal.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  151. Tlaloc: Notice the Dems have been far more unified than the right. Says something, huh

    Yes. Individual democrats don’t feel free to vote for themselves. There is too much centralized control. The parties are too strong, especially the Democratic Party.

    This is one of the insidious effects of campaign finance “reform” which limits individual contributions, but allows the existence of huge PACs that can give more, and more important, allows one member of Congress to contribute money to others.

    Sammy Finkelman (9a6ee5)

  152. Comment by Icy (c5d6fc) — 10/4/2013 @ 3:50 am

    [according to tlaloc] the party OF fiscal responsibility super secretly wants us to be fiscally irresponsible. They weren’t clevers enough to hides it from you, though, were they!

    The spin is there are about 30 Tea Party Republicans in the House who are driving the Republican Party into the fiscal irresposibility of defaulting on the debt (never mind that Predient Obama and the Democrats in the Senate are trying to leave that as the only alternative, or argue that it is the only alternative, in the event of a failure to raise the debt ceiling in time.)

    And they are supposedly able to do this because the Republican Party has only a small majority in the House, and because of gerrymandered districts which cause members of Congress, about 50 non-Tea Party members of the House, to fear primaries.

    And John Boehner is supposedly afraid of losing his leadership of the Republicans in the House.

    In reality, they’ve successfully scared John Boehner, and he’s telling House Republicans that
    if they don’t vote for an increase in the debt ceiling – and he’s not talking about an absolutely clean one now, in fact says that can’t pass the House no how no way – but if they don’t vote for it, he’ll pass it, or try to pass it, without a majority of House Republicans.

    He will bring a debt ceiling increase bill to the floor. Cobble together a majority as best he can, trying to get as many Republicans as possible, but not letting failure to get 50% of them stop him from trying to get 50% of the House.

    So now Senator Schumer is left to argue that he shouldn’t wait till near October 17.

    Sammy Finkelman (9a6ee5)

  153. “Yours truly, the foaming at the mouth enraged Steve57 Caesar Augustus.”

    Sheesh, another jumped up Julian… 😉

    SPQR (768505)

  154. This means if you take a random sample of 20 people, 9 think it’s the GOP’s fault, 7 think it’s the Dems fault, and 4 have no opinion.

    I’m sure that the sentiment detected in such surveys helps fuel the arrogance, hubris and partisanship of Obama and all his groupies.

    In general, I can’t think of one — one — community or society that is as chronically messed up as a Detroit or Mexico is, in which either a huge or persistent majority of the populace doesn’t remain foolishly locked into liberalism, compared with a flip-side parallel of that, where a long-suffering community or society is locked into conservatism.

    That’s why a place can become quite corrupt — socially and economically — and remain that way indefinitely. The only saving grace to such a community or society is if its demographics at least are stable or nurturing (ie, where a large number of people are resourceful, talented and reliable). But as hinted at by liberals like Tlaloc, they know that’s not in America’s future.

    Mark (58ea35)

  155. @150 Oh, thanks JD. Sorry about all the links. Normally that would not be necessary with an honest person, but Tlaloc started claiming falsely that I “dropped” the subject and otherwise pretended that his ability to ignore = evidence.

    I am actually conducting an experiment with him as a subject regarding the ratio of assertions versus falsity over time (I call it: project troll, for reals). I am still on his first sentence (second assertion), since I started almost a week ago. It’s like pulling teeth.

    @ Tlaloc, you asserted:

    …that defunding was the very last chance to stop obamacare…

    And subsequently claimed that:

    …but of course many of them [conservatives] said time and again that this was the last chance.

    Cite them.

    (Honestly, this should not be that hard. Just give it a try Tlaloc, not with excuses, or oblique insults, or clever quotes by Carlin, but with actual references. To avoid the excessive link limit, lets say two. I know you can do this.)

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  156. Pons – I released a comment from the twatwaffle at the same time. It claims to have responded to your question.

    JD (3e5afb)

  157. Does turdlock have an answer for this?

    Is it their familiarity with the HSS Sec that would breed such contempt?

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  158. The sperm god was spectacularly mendoucheous last night, pissing on the military.

    Comment by JD (3e5afb) — 10/4/2013 @ 5:32 am

    lol — Yes, I noticed. Any intelligent person with a decent moral code would be embarrassed, but that is not the case with Tlaloc, hence my belief that he cannot be embarrassed. The hypocrisy alone…

    It also makes sense on another level too, it allows such a person to embrace and be at peace with a hypocritical, corrupt, mediocre President like Obama.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  159. 156. Senator Ted Cruz said this any number of times that it was the last chance to prevent Obamacare and I think Rush Limbaugh said that also years ago. Not sure who else said that. Didn’t you see the link to the Hugh Hewitt show i posted a few times ? It’s not enough to satisfy tlaloc – it makes his statement only a half truth.

    Sammy Finkelman (70f9a1)

  160. PA, among the Left, mediocrity knows no bounds.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  161. @160 Comment by Sammy Finkelman (70f9a1) — 10/4/2013 @ 12:48 pm

    False Sammy (we went through this before). He said it was the last chance to defund Obamacare.

    He did not say it was the last chance to stop Obamacare.

    last chance to defund Obamacare != last chance to stop Obamacare.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  162. askeptic — yes, it is almost a celebration of it.

    American Exceptionalism is a big fat mystery to the left it seems, which is so ironic because that helped create an engine of prosperity that wiped out an entire generation of poverty, unlike anything in human history.

    So many of the left are enjoying life because of it, yet they seek to destroy it in favor of something mediocre at best.

    America is about risk, going to he moon and yes, the right to fail and try again. Leftist do not understand this.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  163. 159.

    The sperm god was spectacularly mendoucheous last night, pissing on the military.

    Comment by JD (3e5afb) — 10/4/2013 @ 5:32 am

    lol — Yes, I noticed. Any intelligent person with a decent moral code would be embarrassed, but that is not the case with Tlaloc, hence my belief that he cannot be embarrassed. The hypocrisy alone…

    It also makes sense on another level too, it allows such a person to embrace and be at peace with a hypocritical, corrupt, mediocre President like Obama.

    Comment by Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 10/4/2013 @ 12:48 pm

    I won’t comment on his moral code. This time. But it was a poorly conceived plan, poorly executed. It’s his technique that begs derision.

    I’m not bragging about my heroism in the Navy. I was a mid-grade paper pusher. Still, some guy like Flailoc thinks he can say something on a comment thread to make me foaming at the mouth enraged? Puhlease! I spent 20 years having my travel arranged by people who had to have moonlighted writing the script for the Steve Martin/John Candy flick “Trains, Planes, and Automobiles.” While subsisting on food that for all I know was scraped off somebody’s shoe.

    Sure, I ate it. I was tired and hungry after being forced to make my way from Taegu to Seoul by pogo stick after the plane broke down.

    Oh, speaking of how the well run gub’mint is a boon to living your life in general, let me tell you about the great “boon” of letting them take charge of my wedding.

    All I wanted to do was to invite guests to attend the ceremony at the chapel and then reserve a room at the O Club for a catered reception. Naturally this involves months of filling out special request chits and other forms. After months of jumping through hoops I get everything approved. I even arrange for a bus from MWR to truck people around from the front gate to the nuptial events and then back to the front gate at the end of the evening.

    So what happens on the day of my wedding? Nobody shows up. So I leave the chapel with my best man to find out what’s going on. All of my guests are qued up at the front gate but the Marines aren’t letting them on. Because they don’t have an authorized guest list.

    The authorized guest list was something approved by the commander months before. I checked, it was in the log at security the night before my wedding. What happened? It turns out the Navy in its infinite wisdom puts miscreants who are Aaron Alexis-type being administratively separated from the service into units that fall under the auspices of base security. Which assigns them to the midwatch, unsupervised. Where the guy who already had proven he had issues with authority discovered the guest list for an officer who was getting married the next day. So he shredded it.

    After an epic rant full of the “tells” Flailoc likes to point out the Marines guarding the gate agreed to let my guests on base. I will be eternally grateful to my DI at AOCS for that, as well as my dad the Senior Chief, who taught me the practical skills of how to use language to win friends and influence people.

    After I got back from the honeymoon I call the chief in charge of security and start chewing him out (politely; I don’t use profanity when I’m serious) along the lines of ,”What were you thinking?” And he gives up and asks me, “Sir, what do you want me to do.” So I tell him it’s no big deal and that I know he’s doing the best he can given what he has to work with.

    Point being after two decades of dealing with people who did their best to actually d*** up major events in my life couldn’t make me foaming at the mouth enraged what hope does anonymous on the intertubes who has no such power hold over me?

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  164. @52 Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 10/3/2013 @ 8:29 pm

    lol, Tlaloc — I wasted 3 seconds of your time and you are upset, my, my. Interesting sources, let us examine them.

    Your first source quotes Rubio:

    Because a major piece of its implementation begins on Oct. 1, this short-term budget represents our last chance to stop it by defunding it.

    Note: last chance to stop it BY DEFUNDING IT. Not last chance to stop it. Try the whole sentence next time.

    Your second source does not quote anyone, but does state that it is the last chance to stop Obamacare.

    Your third source, not even close. No such statment at all.

    Your fourth source, suprise, nope. The closest was a quote by Rep Meadows:

    All of us are united in understanding that once you start enrollment, it becomes a totally different dynamic even though they’re not receiving benefits. When somebody enrolls in something, they assume they will be getting them. That’s why the American people are expecting us to fight now, not delay the fight until next year some time.

    Note: he did not say this was the last chance to stop Obamacare.

    Your fifth…aw, finally. See next comment.

    Pons asinorum (8ce71a)

  165. Your fifth source does quote Sen Cruz on July 29:

    This is our last and best chance, I’m convinced, to stop it…

    Which is made at the end of a Glen Beck interview where he is making an emotional appeal to the audience to call their senators.

    Here are his words from his speech when he actually implemented his quasi-filibuster, my emphasis:

    That is what makes it so appropriate, so essential, so vital that we have this discussion right here and right now as we consider spending legislation, spending legislation that may well represent our last best hope of achieving a degree of delay or defunding of this legislation before its primary operative provisions take full effect.

    Keeping in mind your original set of assertions was made days after Cruz’s speech — the only source you honestly have is Mr. Cruz making an emotional appeal on July 29th, which was superseded by Mr. Cruz making an argument on the floor of the Senate on September 24th. (And of course, you choose the former. Ay yi yi)

    Mr. Cruz believes that “our last best hope of achieving a degree of delay or defunding” of Obamacare is now. Not the same as your “very last chance to stop it” assertion. But not to worry because you stated:

    all those conservatives [who said] defunding was the very last chance to stop obamacare were lying through their teeth?
    [I omitted your hyperbole]

    So you should have plenty of sources to cite where there is no ambiguity and the best evidence is put forward that confirms your assertion.

    Pons asinorum (8ce71a)

  166. Sheesh, another jumped up Julian… 😉

    Comment by SPQR (768505) — 10/4/2013 @ 6:56 am

    Octavian.

    nk (dbc370)

  167. Point being after two decades of dealing with people who did their best to actually d*** up major events in my life couldn’t make me foaming at the mouth enraged what hope does anonymous on the intertubes who has no such power hold over me?

    @164 Comment by Steve57 (234b9e) — 10/4/2013 @ 4:19 pm

    Wow. Yeah that’s right Steve, but my guess is that most “intertubes” don’t really read our stuff in full anyway, or care in the slightest to evaluate it in an intellectual manner. I just comment for fun mostly and see if any friendly’s pop-in. In a way it is therapeutic.

    Every now and again, a few of the liberal regulars (as a opposed to the regular liberal trolls) might make a comment, but usually it is quite respectful, or worse case, really funny. Motly thought provoking though.

    Pons asinorum (8ce71a)

  168. Does turdlock have an answer for this?

    Is it their familiarity with the HSS Sec that would breed such contempt?

    @158 Comment by askeptic (b8ab92) — 10/4/2013 @ 12:45 pm

    Well, yeah, clearly Kansas is racist.

    Pons asinorum (8ce71a)

  169. Motly thought provoking though.

    lol

    Oops: Motly = Mostly

    Pons asinorum (8ce71a)

  170. Comment by Steve57 (234b9e) — 10/4/2013 @ 4:19 pm

    I’m sure your Bride has commented many times how her wedding is one that cannot be forgotten no matter what disaster befalls you.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  171. askeptic, I haven’t even told you the whole story. I told the story about what happened up to the point of getting my guests on base for the wedding. I hadn’t even gotten to the wedding, reception, or after party.

    Let’s just say that no meteor showers or plagues of locusts were involved. So I didn’t have to put my contingency plans to deal with those into operation. Otherwise, let your imagination roam.

    Fortunately, I had been around the Navy long enough to know it wasn’t enough to plan to do x, y, and z. I also had to plan for how some petty tyrant in some minor position of authority would try to f*** up x, y, and z. Since I had gotten inside their OODA loop, a good time was had by all.

    Except the s***bird who shredded my guest list.

    The chiefs at security made a**maggot’s life as miserable as regulations allowed until they could finally drum him out of the Navy and we all wouldn’t have to deal with him anymore. In the full knowledge that the Navy would replace him with someone just like him.

    I wasn’t quite accurate when I said I chewed out anyone. I wasn’t angry at them, and they knew it. I did paint a word picture of how displeased I was with the forces of the Navy universe that were screwing with my wedding day. But since those were the same forces that had just screwed with all of our COLA, we were all on the same side.

    The point? Yes, there is one. Why would I want to put the same petty tyrants who use their minor positions of authority to f*** things up just so they can show how important they are in charge of my health care? Again?

    And if anyone’s wondering I’m up early on a Saturday to put together a bbq chicken recipe for the crockpot because it’s going to be a busy day.

    Steve57 (234b9e)

  172. How health care happens.

    http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/shithappens.html

    1. In the beginning was the Plan.
    2. And then came the Assumptions.
    3. And the Assumptions were without form.
    4. And the Plan was without Substance.
    5. And darkness was upon the face of the Workers…

    The Nag in Chief Barack Obama keeps wagging his finger at me and lecturing me on how much I’m going to luv his health care scheme. And I should believe him why?

    Steve57 (234b9e)


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