Patterico's Pontifications

9/30/2013

ObamaCare, Shutdown, and Lying Liars

Filed under: General — JD @ 2:26 pm

[guest post by JD]

Matt Walsh nails it. Again.

They’d even risk a short-term, temporary shutdown of government just to make their point. SHUTDOWN THE GOVERNMENT?! BUT HOW WOULD WE EAT OR BREATHE?! This is a warning to Ted Cruz and all his ilk: If the government stops operating for even one day — chaos and cannibalism will reign in the streets. Mark my words. Yeah, a government shutdown would only impact “non-essential” federal government functions. And, yeah, some might even argue that the government should only be doing the essential things in the first place. But that will be of little solace when you’re bleeding on the ground, being eaten alive by the starving masses. I can scarcely imagine the horror. If non-essential government agencies and departments are forced to close for a short period of time, that means we’ll have to find a way to go without the Administration on Aging, and the Japan-United States Friendship Commission, and the Indian Arts and Crafts Board, and the Bureau of Transportation Statistics. WHERE WILL I GET MY TRANSPORTATION STATISTICS?! You’re playing with fire, conservatives. Civilization is bound together by the strong, steady hand of bureaucracy. If you loosen its grasp, you risk plunging us all into a dark, perilous land of individual responsibility and liberty. Our Founders fought and died to rescue us from such a fate, and I’ll be damned if I sit here and let you undo their efforts.

In related news, I read where Teh One was scheduled to give a public address, no doubt in the spirit of getting things done for the American people, about the looming shutdown that he has vowed to not negotiate on. Likely right after he gets off the golf course.

Update – apparently the Hectorer-in-Chief delivered his shockingly hyper-partisan address to an adoring press corps, who already had their marching orders and Narrative in order, then promptly walked out, without answering any questions.

—JD

140 Responses to “ObamaCare, Shutdown, and Lying Liars”

  1. Ding

    JD (b4bff3)

  2. Okay, so you think nothing bad will happen. Seems like an imminently testable hypothesis.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  3. Let’s test the hypothesis that Tlalalala is a liar.

    JD (b4bff3)

  4. Obama told me the sky will turn purple tomorrow. I am in great fear.

    Rodney King's Spirit (5afc40)

  5. Since when did “post-partisan” come to mean “working for a one-party state”?

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  6. Shut it down until March. Pass the debt ceiling increase, fine, but not a dime in appropriations for anything that isn’t absolutely needed.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  7. Because of the gub’mint shutdown no doctor has required me to discuss the three way I had with the Swedish sex workers.

    Which sucks cuz I’m telling everyone about the three way I had with the Swedish sex workers. Which by the way was a freebie, and happened in the Elvis suite at a Vegas Casino.

    I told my priest about it at confession. And he was like, ” well my son it appears your contrition about that sex party you had with the Swedes is sincere.”

    And I was like, WTFO! I’m just telling you because I’m telling everybody.

    And now, thanks to the gub’mint shutdown I can’t preserve the story on a federal database.

    Thanks, John Boehner!

    Build the dang database!

    The one that will state I drove Hilda and her friends around the living room of my hotel like a Tonka truck for three days straight only breaking for water on occasion.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  8. If the Govt shuts down and no one notices, does it mean it exists?

    Rodney King's Spirit (5afc40)

  9. In other news, I hear the Pope **** in the woods.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  10. He beats ’em and mistreats ’em, but they know deep down, he really loves ’em…

    Colonel Haiku (c27e3f)

  11. They know they shouldn’t provoke him by asking “where he’s been?”… they remember what happened the last time they asked questions.

    Colonel Haiku (c27e3f)

  12. Let me clarify, as I would hate it if daley would later accuse me of changing the goalposts.

    I am not saying the Pope ONLY s**** in the woods. Nor am I saying that the woods are in any way necessary toward the pontiff’s number two.

    Just saying, should the Pope need to go while he’s in the woods, that won’t be an insurmountable obstacle.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  13. will there be therapy dogs?

    there will be therapy dogs, right?

    oh god please tell me there will be therapy dogs

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  14. Only walruses, Mr. Feets.

    The good news is you get your own bus.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  15. The bad news is you have to buy 500 pounds of herring every day.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  16. no problem I have the food stamp platinum package

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  17. What the world needs now, Mr. Feets, is an animal in every home that is capable of both auto fellatio and tusking you to death.

    Therapy dogs don’t make the cut. True, they will eat their own crap. Which is a step up from our current governing class. But that in and of itself doesn’t qualify them as a suitable replacement.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  18. 16. no problem I have the food stamp platinum package

    Comment by happyfeet (c60db2) — 9/30/2013 @ 3:20 pm

    See? No downside.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  19. TOTUS does not, repeat, not take questions.
    That would require the ability to know more than what is programmed, and the ability to “think on your feet”, which is beyond the capabilities of the soft-ware designers.
    The press was given their handout, what more do they need.
    Anyway, that pesky Ed Henry from FoxNews is always asking the wrong sort of questions – he’s worse than Major was.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  20. I had to eat my wife after the sequester. I guess the kids are what’s for dinner during the next, most horrible bad thing to ever happen because of Republicans.

    Anything bad that happens will be as exactly bad as the President tells the media to make it.

    Tlaloc: Go jump in the lake.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  21. But … but … but … Racist!

    htom (412a17)

  22. If “government shuts down”, does that mean that Pelosi and Reid and all the rest-of-em who DEPEND on gummint money will shrivel and disappear like the green witch in Wizard of Oz when Dorothy threw the bucket of water on her?

    Can I watch, hunh, can I please??????

    A_Nonny_Mouse (57cacf)

  23. Tlaloc: Go jump in the lake.

    For suggesting you can test your hypothesis? Seems like you’d be eager to do so… that is if you really believe in your stated case.

    Tlaloc (7efca9)

  24. I am all ready to test whatever you’re talking about. Let’s test the hell out of it.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  25. 20. I had to eat my wife after the sequester. I guess the kids are what’s for dinner during the next, most horrible bad thing to ever happen beuse of Republicans.

    Anything bad that happens will be as exactly bad as the President tells the media to make it.

    Tlaloc: Go jump in the lake.

    Comment by Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 9/30/2013 @ 3:36 pm

    It’s all coming back to me. I cannibalized my mother during the last government shutdown.

    But I didn’t dismember it, or rather remember it, cuz I’m a hateful partisan.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  26. And my mother is still with us.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  27. An acquaintance of mine who works in government procurement regulatory compliance has been told that he is “essential”.

    Just in case, some cannibal procures someone’s arm to eat without filling in all the required procurement forms, and forgets to attest to the required minority ownership participation forms … or the proper waivers of competitive bidding …

    SPQR (768505)

  28. Since Democrats think its OK to shutdown government to protest there being too much freedom on the airwaves – as Tip O’Neil did to protest the repeal of the “Fairness Doctrine” by the FCC – its pretty clear that they approve of cannibalism.

    SPQR (768505)

  29. ‘You said the same thing about the tiger, and the sperm whale,

    ‘Well you didn’t feed it properly’

    Where am I going to get 44 tons of plankton,

    ‘Michael Ellis, Monty Python,

    narciso (3fec35)

  30. Comment by SPQR (768505) — 9/30/2013 @ 4:06 pm

    They must, as their approved programs chew up and spit out people right and left.
    We are just here to serve our masters.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  31. Tlalala – do you think it is endearing, in any way shape or manner, to flat out effin lie about what our hypothesis might be? Not one damn person her has made the claim you assert.

    JD (b4bff3)

  32. Tlalala – do you think it is endearing, in any way shape or manner, to flat out effin lie about what our hypothesis might be? Not one damn person her has made the claim you assert.

    Really, that seemed to be the gist of the OP. What do you think they meant then?

    Tlaloc (7efca9)

  33. That is only the gist to a person inclined to engage in sophistry the likes of which you spew.

    JD (5c1832)

  34. Washington Post article on the dozen times that Tip O’Neil shut down government was pretty amusing. The shutdown over petulance about the Fairness Doctrine was only the most amusing of the many times Democrats shutdown government.

    SPQR (768505)

  35. On Meet the Press they said it was 17 altogether, 12 when Tip O’Neill was Speaker. I had thought 1990 was the first one. Chris Matthews said on Meet the Press most were only for a few days and most were over money. (There was the time they tried to reverse the abolition of he Fairness Doctrine, which got mentioned on the program)

    Sammy Finkelman (8ac22c)

  36. That’s what I said, Sammy.

    SPQR (768505)

  37. “Federal govt shutdown vs. two inches of snow: Which is more likely to bring DC to a halt?”

    That’s funny.

    SPQR (768505)

  38. For suggesting you can test your hypothesis? Seems like you’d be eager to do so… that is if you really believe in your stated case.

    You mean there’ll be no official count provided by the Bureau of Lake Jumper Statistics. I’ll take the chance. Now go jump in a lake.

    Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 (f7d5ba)

  39. I remember that first government shutdown during the Reagan administration like it was the day before yesterday.
    Chrissy “Tingle Boy” Matthews was with Tip “Pappy’s Drunk Again” O’Neill when Pappy patted the Gipper’s head and told him to take a nap.

    Then, Republicans ran rampant in the streets beating babies with clubs like crazed Canadian seal hunters on a weekend bender while everybody’s grandmas shivered in the dark because EPA climate watchers wouldn’t work for federal chits.

    I think Tingle Boy has written a book about it that no one has bought — or read.

    Good times.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  40. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/01/us/politics/congress-shutdown-debate.html?hp&_r=0

    New Republican proposal includes a denial of government health insurance subsidies to lawmakers and their staff.

    Why would they do that? To raise the probability the Senate rejects the bill from 98% to 99%?

    This is just another form of pay cut, and not called for at all. If they wanted or hoped a bill to pass, they’d pass a bill legalizing what Obama did.

    Reid calls for Boehner to put the Senate bill (1 1/2 month “clean” continuing resolution) up for a vote in the House.

    It would pass since some Republicans would vote for it. Reid maybe expects that to happen after a week or two. Or maybe the House will pass a 1 to 3 week “clean” CR and dare the Senate to reject
    it. The Senate bill is 6 1/2 weeks.

    The thing is, by mid-October, they’ll be dealing with the debt ceiling.

    Sammy Finkelman (8ac22c)

  41. Really seven weeks. From Tuesday October 1, 2013 till Friday November 15, 2013. 46 days but effectively seven weeks.

    Harry Reid and Obama won’t want to go earlier than November 15, because it will conflict with debt limit fight which should start around October 17th (the earliest deadline) and could go into early November, but should be over by the 15th.

    Sammy Finkelman (c8f489)

  42. You mean there’ll be no official count provided by the Bureau of Lake Jumper Statistics. I’ll take the chance. Now go jump in a lake.

    Sure, also no new meds approved by the FDA, no new business or home loans through federal agencies, delays to who knows how many plans already in he works…
    Wait weren’t you the guys arguing that uncertainty was an ec0nomy killer? To say nothing of the 20% of GDP that comes directly from federal expenditures, most of which will of course be on hold. Adding those two data points to the fact that shutdowns cost more money than simply running the government and it’s getting kind of hard to see what exactly you are trying to accomplish here…

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  43. John Boehner should call 0bama and say he’s Ayatollah Boehneravi and Big Zer0 will fold like a House of Cards…

    Colonel Haiku (08d79d)

  44. GDP, short for Gross Domestic Product it is! Just what does the gubbyment produce besides overbearing regulations and waste? Gubbyment spending actually takes away from the GDP it does! For every dollar it takes, reduces the GDP it does!

    Yoda (ee1de0)

  45. Well, the government will shut down exactly what it wants to make the point of how indispensable it is. I think children, women and the elderly will be hardest hit.

    If our economy is so weak that it cannot stand a few days of government furloughs, then the problem is not the duly elected, bomb-throwing terrorists in the House. (hint).

    I think what we (?) are trying to accomplish here is that a whole lot of people don’t want Obamacare.

    A whole lot of Congressmen in the U.S. House were elected to try to stop it. When they do what they are elected to do, all you can come up with is some sort of quizzical wistfulness about why everyone is not as smart as you think you are.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  46. Sure, also no new meds approved by the FDA, no new business or home loans through federal agencies, delays to who knows how many plans already in he works…
    Wait weren’t you the guys arguing that uncertainty was an ec0nomy killer? To say nothing of the 20% of GDP that comes directly from federal expenditures, most of which will of course be on hold. Adding those two data points to the fact that shutdowns cost more money than simply running the government and it’s getting kind of hard to see what exactly you are trying to accomplish here

    I’m not going to write what I’ve written to YOU before about how inefficient and corrupt bureaucracies are and/or become. Two words: less government.

    Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 (f7d5ba)

  47. What’s most distressing about the government shutdown, is that it will hinder the Department of Defense’s official investigation into what happened at Benghazi. Or something.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  48. Just what does the gubbyment produce besides overbearing regulations and waste?

    Typed on the internet for extra irony.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  49. Two words: less government.

    One word refutation: Sudan.

    Care to try again, maybe with actual thought this time instead of a poorly thought out slogan?

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  50. Tladoc, the government does not produce the internet. Nor is the internet the sole creation of the government.

    I know because I was actually there when the government was slowing down the advance of the internet with its administration of it in the ’80’s.

    Today, all the government does for the internet is destroy all trust in it and all foreign reliance in the integrity of internet based business with unconstitutional spying.

    SPQR (768505)

  51. Pompous pedantic and mendoucheous is no way to go through life, tlalalala

    JD (b4bff3)

  52. Tladoc, Sudan is an example of the evils of less government? Really?

    You are incoherent moron. Sudan is where the government has been conducting genocide against animist tribes you blithering idiot.

    SPQR (768505)

  53. Well, typing Sudan certainly puts us in our place. Kind of racist, though. Just saying for extra irony.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  54. Ag80, Tladoc wanted to type “Somalia” but you know … one of dem African countries looks like another to your average Democrat.

    SPQR (768505)

  55. Well like Toure, he may think it’s in North Africa,

    narciso (3fec35)

  56. SPQR:

    Let’s give it the benefit of the doubt. What it was trying to say is that European imperialism created a failed African state because of Republicans.

    I think when you look at it that way, it makes perfect sense. Just saying for the extra irony, you guys.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  57. I doubt that even the 47% think that we don’t have enough government or that we will not have enough with the slowdown. Maybe 4.7% will. But they have to stick up for their SCOAMF because they voted for him and they own him. (OMG, I said “own”. RACIST.)

    nk (dbc370)

  58. 50. Howard J. Mickens is right guys, those TSA tubs of animal fat are essential.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  59. I hope Moochelle has to stand in for Dog’s food taster. They’ll prolly stick some white boy with it tho.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  60. Tladoc, the government does not produce the internet. Nor is the internet the sole creation of the government.

    Technically a true statement since you carefully elide around the important fact- the government is responsible for the initial creation of the internet, a feat that private industry could not have accomplished. Yes, since the government created it you have had a lot of private industry get involved (and by and large screw it up, but hey, you know what else would they have done?).

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  61. Tladoc, Sudan is an example of the evils of less government? Really?

    You are incoherent moron. Sudan is where the government has been conducting genocide against animist tribes you blithering idiot.

    Wierd and here I thought the Sudan was a prime example of a failed state- you now one of those cases where the government has essentially fallen aart, i.e. your desired state of affairs.

    Oh lookee here, a list of failed states, with Sudan the number 3 on the list:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Failed_States_Index#2013

    Would you look at that? Independent fact that supports my position.

    Your turn.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  62. blech, several typos:
    “know” “apart”

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  63. ‘One of these things is not like the other;

    When he returned to Sudan as a colonel in the Sudanese Army, al-Bashir led a group of army officers in ousting the unstable coalition government of Prime Minister Sadiq al-Mahdi in a bloodless military coup on 30 June 1989.[1] Under al-Bashir’s leadership, the new military government suspended political parties and introduced an Islamic legal code on the national level.[21] He then became Chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council for National Salvation (a newly established body with legislative and executive powers for what was described as a transitional period), and assumed the posts of chief of state, prime minister, chief of the armed forces, and minister of defense.[22] Subsequent to al-Bashir’s promotion to the Chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council for National Salvation, he allied himself with Hassan al-Turabi, the leader of the National Islamic Front, who along with al-Bashir began institutionalizing Sharia law in the northern part of Sudan. Further on, al-Bashir issued purges and executions in the upper ranks of the army, the banning of associations, political parties, and independent newspapers and the imprisonment of leading political figures and journalists.[23]

    narciso (3fec35)

  64. Setting up strawpeople and mowing them down. Good work, tlalalalala

    JD (b4bff3)

  65. Tladoc, your understanding of the history of Sudan and the Internet are equivalent – wrong, incoherent and a bad joke.

    SPQR (768505)

  66. Wow, I don’t think Tladoc has ever written a factual statement in a comment that was correct yet.

    SPQR (768505)

  67. Odds would dictate he would get something right.

    narciso (3fec35)

  68. Sorry SPQR, I can keep bringing you facts but I can’t make you learn from them. In one sense that lets you win any argument by simply refusing to confront reality… of course in another more meaningful sense it means you lose out on opportunities to grow out of the inbred intellectual cul-de-sac you’re trapped within.

    Pity.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  69. Tlaloc, you don’t bring me “facts”. You bring incoherent nonsense, long debunked myths, and level of “facts” I’d expect from Piers Morgan.

    SPQR (768505)

  70. narciso, you’d think so too if he was just randomly making up stuff.

    SPQR (768505)

  71. Tlaloc, you don’t bring me “facts”. You bring incoherent nonsense, long debunked myths, and level of “facts” I’d expect from Piers Morgan.

    Case in point.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  72. Well, Piers Morgan or Al “Manbearpig” Gore.

    SPQR (768505)

  73. You guys, The Sudan is exactly like a constitutional republic, you guys.

    Why don’t you understand, you guys? It’s reality in the cul-de-sac. If you can’t understand, then wtf, you inbred losers? It’s a trap.

    God damn redshirts. Case in point, for extra irony.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  74. “Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself” -M.Friedman

    Which is consistent with Democrats’ past shutdowns for such things as Tip O’Neil’s petulant opposition to freedom of speech.

    SPQR (768505)

  75. Ag80, yep. The animist tribes of southern Sudan were the subject of genocide by the Sudanese government because …. too little government.

    That’s Tlaloc’s Incoherent Argument of the Day.

    SPQR (768505)

  76. The difference between Tlaloc and my dog is that when my dog fetches me bits and pieces from coyote kills, I still like my dog.

    I don’t try to construe the random body parts as an argument.

    I also exercise greater supervision over my dog.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  77. I hear from the house liberal, that we are not to care about the millions who are neither eligible for ObamaneyCare or are keeping their insurance.

    Its the fault of the evil businesses that are either dumping them altogether or bumping them into Ocare approved plans.

    So now, Charity itself is government approved.

    SMOD can’t come soon enough.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  78. I respectfully disagree with Tlaloc that the Washington impasse will cause Sudan’s internet to shut down.

    nk (dbc370)

  79. I hate it when nk does better insults than I do.

    You … you … darn greek bassard.

    SPQR (768505)

  80. TaLaLa is an unfortunate soul with below average intelligence who will argue against facts that are as plain as the acne on his pasty, banished-to-his-mother’s-basement face.

    Colonel Haiku (08d79d)

  81. I wonder how the Internet managed to survive the last gov’t ‘shutdown’.

    Icy (68b17a)

  82. Here’s the really, really weird thing that will blow tlacocock’s mind.

    The right is not anti-government.

    It was not that long ago that the left was, indeed, anti-government.

    But it got old and tired. Living the dream of wealth and influence suddenly became a good thing for a few.

    Now all the left does is pretend to care about the poor for votes while raking in the riches with late ’60s cliches.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  83. You can do insults as good as nk if you stick to skordalia but not so much the retsina.

    At least that’s how interpret things.

    Heavier on the garlic sauce, lighter on the pine resin wine.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  84. Tlaloc must not have ever heard of Patrick Moynihan?
    http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/d/daniel_patrick_moynihan.html

    askeptic (2bb434)

  85. In fact, give up on the pine resin wine entirely. If you’re going to drink wine, drink wine. Not pine resin.

    Oppa!

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  86. Everything is fine . . .
    One in 10 recent borrowers defaulted on their federal student loans within the first two years, the highest default rate since 1995, according to annual figures made public Monday by the Department of Education.

    A separate gauge, measuring defaults occurring within the first three years of required payments, showed that more than one in seven borrowers with federal student loans went into default, an event that can trigger invasive debt-collection methods that include fees, wage garnishments, and withheld IRS tax refunds.

    Roughly the same number of borrowers defaulted on their federal student loans last year as were aided by the Obama administration’s three debt-relief measures, known as Income-Based Repayment, Income-Contingent Repayment and Pay As You Earn, according to Education Department data.
    — Heckuva job, Barcky!

    Icy (gulrud) (68b17a)

  87. apparently the Hectorer-in-Chief delivered his shockingly hyper-partisan address to an adoring press corps, who already had their marching orders and Narrative in order, then promptly walked out, without answering any questions.

    I sometimes wonder how I’d perceive Obama if I were a devout liberal, a staunch registered Democrat. I ask that because even if Obama were a conservative Republican, I’d still be totally embarrassed and disgusted about him.

    The best analogy I can think of for a right-leaning variation of him would be Christine O’Donnell and her entering the US Senate race in Delaware in 2010 against Democrat Chris Coons. That’s in spite of the fact that her errors and deficiencies (and scandals, if you will) weren’t a fraction as bad as that of Obama. Yet I still remember being very irritated with her, wishing she’d just vanish from a public role and participate in the Republican Party in some other way.

    Mark (58ea35)

  88. Then I have only partially succeeded, SPQR. Rule 6: A good tactic is one your people enjoy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals#The_rules

    nk (dbc370)

  89. nk, I always wondered about the drinking the pine sol thing. Is that explainable.

    Yassou.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  90. Comment by Mark (58ea35) — 9/30/2013 @ 8:20 pm

    even if Obama were a conservative Republican, I’d still be totally embarrassed and disgusted about him.

    I think most partisan Democrats don’t know he’s misstating facts.

    Sammy Finkelman (8423d6)

  91. You wingnutz are just stuck in your intellectual cup-de-sac of epistemic closure. Tlalalalala just crushed every argument ever made about limited restrained government in one word. Sudan. Su-effin-dan. Take that, teabaggerz.

    JD (9ec12f)

  92. 93. …I think most partisan Democrats don’t know he’s misstating facts.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (8423d6) — 9/30/2013 @ 8:27 pm

    I think most partisan Democrats couldn’t tell the difference between their own elbow and a hot rock.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  93. 94. You wingnutz are just stuck in your intellectual cup-de-sac of epistemic closure. Tlalalalala just crushed every argument ever made about limited restrained government in one word. Sudan. Su-effin-dan. Take that, teabaggerz.

    Comment by JD (9ec12f) — 9/30/2013 @ 8:31 pm

    I stand corrected.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  94. 62. Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 9/30/2013 @ 7:34 pm

    Wierd and here I thought the Sudan was a prime example of a failed state- you now one of those cases where the government has essentially fallen aart, i.e. your desired state of affairs.

    Sudan is not a failed state – it’s a tyrannical state. Maybe you can argue failed also, because of the civil war(s) or rebellions.

    Oh lookee here, a list of failed states, with Sudan the number 3 on the list:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Failed_States_Index#2013

    I think Wikipedia (or rather the “Fund for Peace” from where they get the list) doesn’t like the words totalitarian or unfree, or the like, because that’s so old-fashioned and Cold War, so they’re stuck with “failed”

    As indications of a “failed state” they include:

    Suspension or arbitrary application of law; widespread human rights abuses.

    Security apparatus operating as a “state within a state”.

    I guess Russia and China are also “failed states” – they’ve got security apparatus that operate outside the rule of law.

    Would you look at that? Independent fact that supports my position.

    No it roves that some people are allergic to words like tyranny, totaliatarian, not free.

    Sammy Finkelman (8423d6)

  95. Steve, as a sailor you should know that most wines do not travel well. Especially white wines, even more especially white wines from a reasonably moist soil like Greece’s, and most especially white wines when they’re sloshed around the hold of a big rowing boat like the pentekonters that were used to invade Troy. The resin was originally used as a preservative for wine transported on ships. It became an acquired taste and some white wine is made into retsina even though it will never set foot off dry land. My mother made wine, both white and red. She did not make retsina and most Greeks don’t — they prefer a white wine that is probably squarely on the Venn of dry, light, sweet and aromatic.

    nk (dbc370)

  96. Most people, however, when they use the term “failed state” use it to mean a situation where there is no functioning state, but rather where no one is in charge overall, and criminals and small armed groups prevail. State institutions exist, but the police are not police etc.

    Sammy Finkelman (8423d6)

  97. Try this, http://www.tsantali.com/portfolio/agioritikos-white/, it’s probably the best you’ll find outside Greece. Like I said, Greek white wines do not travel well. You want to be in a mountain tavern, in September, when they tap the previous year’s vintage, for the really good stuff.

    nk (dbc370)

  98. Steve57

    Does your dog kill the coyotes or is he bringing you stuff coyotes leave, like cat heads with cute bell collar still attached?
    Those bleeding hearts protecting the birdies from their cat, leave their cat without its best weapon; stealth. Instead the poor cat is trying to hide from the coyotes and the damn bell jingles with every twitch.
    Not a fan of cats, but I’ve wanted to take collars with bells to the address and light a verbal fire on some one for being so dumb and sentencing their poor cat to die a violent and terrifying death.

    I am confident there are a lot of parallels to the discussion of Obamacare and the Sudan here… perhaps it is wise to leave the loud jewelry at home before visiting the Sudan, or going to an appointment at the healthcare exchange, lest your head be severed.

    steveg (794291)

  99. nk, when I say I hate it, it means I love it but seeth with jealousy.

    DRJ, wasn’t that quintessential Obama?

    SPQR (768505)

  100. The right is not anti-government.

    Of course, people who like government always say “I want to shrink government until it’s small enough to drown in a bathtub.”

    It’s cute when you guys think you can still get away with those lies even though your masters have given away the game.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  101. Steve, as a sailor you should know that most wines do not travel well…

    As a sailor I know I’m never more than a day or two away from raiding into a distillery. In fact I suspect that’s why John Paul Jones and his crew fought the Serapis so hard. It was between them and the real objective.

    And Troy was how many centuries ago?

    Just kidding. I have a great deal of respect for the Greeks. In fact being Italian I can pass for Greek. I can proposition women in Swedish, but nobody ever mistakes me for Swedish. Greek, though…

    Eletho kuriziakimu. Apopse sethelo poli.

    I don’t know if I transliterated it correctly, but I say it good enough for government work.

    Anyway, I meant no offense. I like to eat a gyro and drink a glass of metaxa accompanied by some bazouki music as much as the next guy. And I do know that the pine resin was a preservative. But again I’m compelled to ask Troy was how many centuries ago.

    Sincerely yours, a sailor.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  102. You wingnutz are just stuck in your intellectual cup-de-sac of epistemic closure. Tlalalalala just crushed every argument ever made about limited restrained government in one word. Sudan. Su-effin-dan. Take that, teabaggerz.

    It’s interesting how you seem to think reductio ad absurdum is not only a valid argument but a winning one in the face of facts. You really might want to take a course in elementary logic and debate. It’d be well worth it. Really.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  103. This shutdown thingy seems to be fizzling. I can still see dimwit’s Interwebby burblings.

    Icy (68b17a)

  104. Steveg, I didn’t really understand your comment @101. So I’ll take a guess and you can tell me if I’m anywhere close to the mark.

    1) My dog didn’t kill the ‘yotes. But twice I wandered home on a dark winter eve and said to myself, “something stinks.”

    Turns out it was my dog picking up a cat let bone or something from a coyote kill. I didn’t realize it at the time. I thought what he was doing in that bush was taking a leak.

    2) I wouldn’t be so hard on Obama if I thought his ME policies were just a result of having to pull over to take a leak.

    Who hasn’t been on a road trip.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  105. All you wingnutz are just repeating the messages from your masters trying to drown babies and women and minorities in bathtubs. Tlalalalalala is an independent thinker. Sudan, bitches.

    JD (5c1832)

  106. 105. …You really might want to take a course in elementary logic and debate. It’d be well worth it. Really.

    Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 9/30/2013 @ 9:12 pm

    You first. The only times I’m reminded of my Latin is when you show up. Argumentem Ad Hominem, Post Hoc Ergo Procter Hoc, Petitio Principii, that sort of thing.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  107. OK, it isn’t the only time I’m reminded of my Latin. It’s one of the principle times.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  108. I know, SPQR.

    Steve, Troy was at about the same time as the fall of Jericho. Close enough for epic poetry. Wine has always been wine — it has not changed, it was the same then as it is now, if that’s your point. The Greeks are much better sailors now, they’re not afraid to leave sight of land and they don’t beach their ships at night like those Greeks, if that’s your point.

    nk (dbc370)

  109. And Greek girls learn English in grade school these days. Just say “Hello. Do you like me?”

    nk (dbc370)

  110. 3 fast, smart dogs can keep an area coyote free, but I can’t let them chase off the new social workers.

    steveg (794291)

  111. The only times I’m reminded of my Latin is when you show up. Argumentem Ad Hominem, Post Hoc Ergo Procter Hoc, Petitio Principii, that sort of thing.

    Well at least you know the names for your behaviors. Now if you could just learn to refrain you might actually make a cogent argument. Its not that hard. You just have to approach the argument honestly and with some knowledge of the topic. I’ll continue to demonstrate how t do it right, just keep trying.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  112. nk, I know the Greeks are good sailors. I was just attempting a bit of fun. Which probably would have gone over better in person.

    I meant no insult.

    I don’t know how I could have given insult, given the fact I made it a point to express the fact I think highly of Greeks.

    So be it. I apologize.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  113. Who’s insulted? It wasn’t me. No apology called for. BTW, Jewel has Bob Evans garlic mashed potatoes where they keep the unfrozen prepared meals next to the hams and stuff. Stir in a spoonful of olive oil and you have skordalia.

    nk (dbc370)

  114. Tlaloc, while you are as incompetent as EPWJ, you are not as amusing. And by the way, EPWJ isn’t amusing.

    SPQR (768505)

  115. Tlaloc, I do argue Obamacare honestly. What do I have to compete with? Are you going to tell me that the people who said amongst other things that if you like your doctor you could keep him were honest while I told you they where lying I wasn’t.

    I’ll apologize to nk because it really is nice to eat gyro or some spanikopita and have an ouzo or two. And I actually do like the bazouki, when the time is ripe. I am not making fun of his culture, although I was trying to rib him.

    But it’s never a good night to swallo Obamacare.

    Steve57 (52f0df)

  116. I’m the only one left in my family who drinks

    it’s a lot of responsibility

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  117. You mean all those conservatives who swore to god that defunding was the very last chance to stop obamacare were lying through their teeth?

    @3 Comment by Tlaloc (d061fc) — 9/28/2013 @ 11:35 am

    Please cite one conservative “swore to god” over this issue.

    @25 Comment by Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/28/2013 @ 12:56 pM

    Tlaloc, on a different thread you made some assertions without without evidence and then falsely attributed them to conservatives. You have been asked to support those assertions. You have failed to do that; neither have you
    rescinded your remarks, which an honest person would have done.

    Your projection says it all:

    “Its not that hard. You just have to approach the argument honestly and with some knowledge of the topic. I’ll continue to demonstrate how t do it right, just keep trying.”

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  118. My culture? Now you’ve gone too far. I play Robert Johnson blues on a OOO-sized Guild acoustic a lot more than I play bouzouki. And I make my tiropita with ricotta and cottage cheese as well as feta. So there.

    nk (dbc370)

  119. Tlaloc, I do argue Obamacare honestly. What do I have to compete with? Are you going to tell me that the people who said amongst other things that if you like your doctor you could keep him were honest while I told you they where lying I wasn’t.

    Yes, that would be a case of you lying, or more accurately you being grossly uninformed and trying to spread it.

    Tlaloc (d061fc)

  120. Mister feets!

    Don’t spill.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  121. Tlaloc calling others uninformed is like … Joe Biden calling someone senile.

    SPQR (768505)

  122. http://news.yahoo.com/us-atf-misplaced-420-million-cigarettes-stings-151426820–politics.html

    Maybe with a shutdown, the ATF won’t give an informant five million dollars.

    SPQR (768505)

  123. Maybe with a shutdown, the ATF won’t give an informant five million dollars.

    Comment by SPQR (768505) — 9/30/2013

    One of thousands of examples of the federal government simply destroying wealth. Just obliterating it. In ways that usually do not help me and often actually make my life worse.

    Enormous control centers for the NSA, or dragnets for the IRS to get Tea Party information so they can wage war against the first amendment and overturn Citizens United, sending guns to druglords in Mexico so the blood shed can be used to attack gun rights, sending a phalanx of lawyers to states so we can’t enforce a Voter ID law. Controlling public education so that propaganda replaces knowledge.

    I do not need all of this crap. I need a much smaller government, actually. I would love it if it were honestly kept down to essential personnel on a permanent basis, leaving all entitlement questions to the 50 states.

    Dustin (303dca)

  124. Tlaloc is a proud graduate from the Harry Reid School of “you are substantively incorrect; therefore, I will besmirch your personal character.”

    Icy (5ef62d)

  125. Care to try again, maybe with actual thought this time instead of a poorly thought out slogan?

    Since you skipped over the first thing I wrote, I’ll assume that you once again want to argue against a caricature of what you think I represent. It’s like the president or harry reid calling out the tea party in another useless statement to the stenographers in the press. It polls well, but isn’t a serious form of debate. And you do know that sudan is a perfect example of a corrupt government, right?

    Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 (f7d5ba)

  126. One word refutation: Sudan

    Wow, I’ve seen few statements typed in comments sections that stand as well as monuments to colossal stupidity as this one.

    Jack Klompus (1f29da)

  127. I know it’s Otto territory?

    narciso (3fec35)

  128. Tlaloc, I do argue Obamacare honestly. What do I have to compete with? Are you going to tell me that the people who said amongst other things that if you like your doctor you could keep him were honest while I told you they where lying I wasn’t.

    Yes, that would be a case of you lying, or more accurately you being grossly uninformed and trying to spread it.

    Obama did not claim this repeatedly?

    JD (9ec12f)

  129. One word refutation – Sudan

    That instantly moves into the echelon of “i work here is done”

    JD (9ec12f)

  130. Aristotle is Belgian, and Buddhism, is about being in for one’s self.

    narciso (3fec35)

  131. I’ll try this new way of arguing with one of JD’s comments:

    “Yes, that would be a case of you lying, or more accurately you being grossly uninformed and trying to spread it.”

    One word refutation: Burkina Faso.

    I like it. I like it.

    Jack Klompus of Khartoum (a88cfb)

  132. And yes that was a purposeful use of the Joe Biden University program in proper word count.

    Jack Klompus of Khartoum (a88cfb)

  133. 129. “One word refutation: Sudan”

    Comment by Jack Klompus (1f29da) — 10/1/2013 @ 3:05 am

    Wow, I’ve seen few statements typed in comments sections that stand as well as monuments to colossal stupidity as this one.

    I saw something the other day about Obama and the Sudan. He’s gone silent. Nobody has access to Darfur, nobody’s complaining they are all interesteds now in Syria – and he said nothing

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324463604579040654002211502.html

    Mass Slaughter and Obama’s Mystifying Indifference

    In 2007, as a presidential candidate, Barack Obama said ignoring Darfur would be ‘a stain on our souls.’ Now: nothing…

    ——————

    When President Obama addressed the United Nations General Assembly this week, the speech ran to more than 5,000 words, most of them focused on turmoil in the Middle East and North Africa. Yet the president never mentioned the continuing genocide conducted in several parts of Sudan by President Omar al-Bashir….

    …In 2007, the then-presidential hopeful said the Western world’s silence regarding the slaughter in Sudan would leave “a stain on our souls.”

    Now President Obama has joined that silence. These days, to learn about what is transpiring in Sudan, one must turn to Radio Dabanga, broadcasting from the Netherlands. A recent report described the bombardment of a Darfur village called Abu Tega, which was “completely burned and the population fled in all directions.”

    President Obama’s critics have denounced his foreign-policy choices, which they believe have weakened the global credibility of the U.S. But Mr. Obama has managed to avoid scrutiny about his most tragic foreign-policy failure: standing by as Sudan’s Islamic regime perpetrates a slaughter against its own citizens who belong to non-Arab ethnic groups. Bashir continues a 10-year annihilation, slaughtering many tens of thousands, and very likely more.

    Tlaloc went wrong because he relied on a list of “failed states” that did not define failed states as merely those without government.

    Sammy Finkelman (1190c5)

  134. On another topic. Iran makes claims that it has a right to develop nuclear energy. Some people in government and outside seem to think a workable compromise is making sure they can only use uranium enrichment for nuclear power but not nuclear bombs. But this would be of no interest to Iran. Iran is not truly interested in nuclear power.

    And the sdame thing is with people who support or are part of dictatorships. They are not truly interested in helping people, any more than Iran is interested in nuclear power. People claim benign motives that they do not have.

    Sammy Finkelman (1190c5)

  135. You mean “Darfur, Inc.” has become the where-are-they-now, flavor of the month, Spinal Tap of causes?

    Jack Klompus of Khartoum (ff36e4)

  136. Well, my wife got a note from her insurance that her policy will be cancelled as of Jan 1. Never mind that it would normally run past that date.

    Now: she has actual insurance: we pay the first $6000, they pay everything after that.

    Jan 1: it’s complicated, but the gist of it is sh pays $6350 of the first $8000, then they pay everything after that.

    Two small changes: the cost is 40% more, and the doctor network is much smaller.

    Thanks Obama, you lying sack of spit.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  137. sorry about the 2 typos.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)


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