Patterico's Pontifications

The Weiner Monster will morph into something far worse and will be employed without question by our next corrupt President. And I’m keeping my daughters off Twitter.

dfbaskwill (ca54bb) — 9/11/2013 @ 7:43 am

This kind of goes against the modern American trend of putting the lunatics in charge of the asylum. Therefore I think he’ll be appointed to something.

Amphipolis (d3e04f) — 9/11/2013 @ 7:50 am

Is this from the NYT or The Onion?

“I am proud to have run a campaign over the past nine weeks that many thought was incapable to mount,” said Mr. Spitzer, who was subdued but not emotional. “We did it in a way that made me proud to revisit the issues we fought for when I was attorney general and governor, to lay out an agenda of what we believed was right for this great city.”

nk (875f57) — 9/11/2013 @ 7:51 am

If there was any doubt that Weiner is a truly “sick puppy,” that has now been pummeled, smashed and pounded into smithereens. That quite a few people in New York City were willing to overlook that aspect of him until relatively late in the game doesn’t reflect well on them.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/11/2013 @ 7:56 am

We haven’t seen the last of him.

htom (412a17) — 9/11/2013 @ 7:57 am

Ah well, as many of his “sexting partners” have noted, Anthony Wiener tends to come up a bit short. The election results are just another case of Wiener doing it “wiener style”.

Comanche Voter (f4c7d5) — 9/11/2013 @ 7:58 am

The saddest thing is, he’s probably very proud of this parting image.

SarahW (b0e533) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:02 am

Weiner was I think the first candidate to make a concession speech, or the first one broadcast.

He spoke about what kind of a campoaign he waged and seemed to be using the royal “we” “We went to every forum” or something like that. He said he had 125 ideas. It was the best message but he was an imperfect messenger.

He said unlike other candidates he didn’t make robocalls and spoke with people a long time on the phone. He said he let himself be asked any question (or something like that)

He said his family was with him there, but it turns out Huma wasn’t.

Later I heard this was actually a very short concession speech.

Sammy Finkelman (764cfe) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:04 am

You got the idea in the last week or so, from reports of what he said in debates, Weiner was basically trying to recover his dignity. (true, he kept insulting people from time to time)

Sammy Finkelman (764cfe) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:05 am

The saddest thing is, he’s probably very proud of this parting image.

Comment by SarahW (b0e533) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:02 am

Of course he is. He’s a fighter to the last, and he stuck it to those judgmental jerks who stopped him from Fulfilling His Destiny of Selfless Service to the people of New York.
/

no one of consequence (325a59) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:08 am

nk@3. Spitzer meant many people thought it was too late to mount a campaign when he started. He did manage to get on the ballot. He was overspending of course and also during the campaign

Earlier, and also even after the polls closed, Spitzer or his campaign was saying it would be a long night – that’s what he’d told his people athis campaign headquarers , but he conceded early.

A story: Spitzer and Liu wanted to cross-endorse ecah other. That is, Spitzer was going to pay for amailing that supported both of them. Li had very little money because he didn’t get campaign matching funds because the board decided his campaign was full of fraud from straw donors – maybe they should only have stimnated the truie amount he was entitled.

But the mailing was never made because Spitzeer wanted it to go only to Chinse people and Liu wanted to go everywhere. Spitzer was trying to piggyback on Liu’s ethnic support, but Liu wanted to use Spitzer to aim for a general audience. they failed to agree and the mailing and cross endorsement never happened.

Spiutzer was working with some of the campaign people who had worked for some of the most disreputable people in recent New York politics.

Sammy Finkelman (764cfe) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:20 am

Another person who had really, really, wrong expectations about the vote outcome (and unlike Spitzer, could not have been lying) was Christine Quinn. She felt confident theer would be a runoff, ad she would be in it.

She was really paying attention to polls from a week or more before the election. They showed her almost tied with Thompson, but if you studied the different polls closely, you could see she was
clearly dropping. She came out a rather distant third, at about 15%.

She had been out personally rounding up a few extra votes until right before the polls closed (probably thinking you miight need a recount to settle who came in second and who came in third).

Sammy Finkelman (764cfe) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:21 am

They thought Thompson would be giving a concession speech when he came out but he wasn’t.

He said “three more weeks” although he congratulated de Blasio. They were saying he might top 40% The last poll seemed to show him at 39% and I calculated, given the undecided, that if he wound up at 38% in a similar poll he’d fall below 40%. (that is, if he lost just 1% of that 39% by the time people voted, he;d fall below the threshold)

The totals in the paper have him at 40.15 or 40.19% There are affidavit and absentee ballots to be counted and if cast some time before they might have de Blasio in the 20s at most.

We’re not getting the recount between the 2nd and the 3rd finishers but we may get the recount to determine if the top finisher fell under or over 40%.

In any batch of new votes a vote for anyone other than de Blasio counts 2/3 as much as a vote for de Blasio in terms of getting a runoff.

Anyone else besides de Blasio needs to get at least 2/3 for a batch of votes to increase the possibility of a runoff. Unlike Weiner in 2005, when at the behest of Clinton and Schumer he declinea runoff – Ferrer came out at just above 40%, but Weiner diudn’t try for a recount and ask for the paper ballots to be counted so we don’t know if he really missed holding Ferrer below 40%, Thompson is going to ask for every vote to be counted.

Although he made s big speech agaiats top and frisk Thompson was still the most pro-police of the 5 major Democrats and he win the votes of those Democrats who thought it was not a problem

Sammy Finkelman (764cfe) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:30 am

There will a runoff election on October 1 in any case because the two top finishers in the Public Advocate race, Letitia James and Daniel Squadron got around 35% or 34%.

The budget for the Public Advocate – who’s supposed to be the Ombudsman – in priciple really to do constituent service, although they just talk about general issues they decide to pick out mostly – has been cut and I think there are only 20 people working in that office.

It’s all the politivians whose job description is NOT constituent service who want to do constituent service. Everyone wants to do something thats not their job.

An election only for Public Advocate would cost $20 million, ten times its annual budget.

Sammy Finkelman (764cfe) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:32 am

Greetings:

That collar and tie couture makes Weiner’s pencil-neck look more pencil-ly.

11B40 (d1cb7c) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:34 am

Joe Lhota delivered a great acceptance speech last night, most of which was heard on WCBS.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbc-news/52979344/#52979344

The last day or so also he said some things to that effect.

Sammy Finkelman (764cfe) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:50 am

I see the Lawrence O’Donnell “interview” somewhat differently. He had a job to do and he did it. (Actually quite well) Lawrence’s goal was for Weiner to show himself so brutally honestly, and to reveal himself as being so toxic, and so out of control, and so un-selfaware that both the Clintons and all the Democrats can now quietly discard, disown, and abandon him. (Possibly Huma will, too.)

I don’t think he’ll be appointed to anything–and he’d be lousy as a bureaucrat or as a “doer” anyhow. He’s a retail politician. Period. which I think was O’Donnell’s point. After this campaign it will be difficult even for Anthony to be a lobbyist, I’d think. I doubt that we’ll see him on TV much now. That, too will be part of the moratorium to rid the Clintons of his taint.

I agree we have not seen the last of him or his bad behavior. But I think it’ll be in the tabloids. Not politics.

elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:50 am

Anthony Weiner is a very angry man. And he hasn’t even figured out yet that it’s really himself that he’s angry with.

elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:56 am

Somehow, it gives me comfort to know that Weiner’s parting shot will always be around to accompany him on any future public appearances and will always serve to define his unique approach to representing the little people.

ropelight (e44d13) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:56 am

I wish people would stop talking about Anthony Weiner’s taint.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:57 am

OK.

elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:57 am

==An election only for Public Advocate would cost $20 million, ten times its annual budget.==

It seems awfully high. But if that amount is accurate, that’s a stunning observation, Sammy.

elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:05 am

elissa – Rethinking, appropriate context is good, such as telling Lovey to go snort Anthony Weiner’s taint.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:06 am

I talked with Lester Jackson on Monday about 6 PM. I asked him about the election. He said the most important thing was the Controllers race – Spitzer was absolutely terrible, he had blackmailed people, and operated almost like a Mafioso, and was responsible for the bankruptcy of AIG. (he didn’t explain, but I knew (Spitzer was responsible for kicking out Maurice R. Greenberg from AIG in 2005, and putting in place incompetent management.)

He mentioned he’d read articles that I (or most people) hadn’t read about Spitzer – actually I mostly knew this, but I was taken by vehemence of his opinion.

This, and maybe the New York Post editorial on Tuesday

…If Spitzer were serious about fighting power, he’d promise to audit agencies from the Department of Buildings to the Economic Development Corp. to ensure that dollars were going to improve the city’s quality of life. Instead, he promises to “reinvent” the comptroller’s office – no doubt in way that will allow him to pursue the personal vendettas and war on business he began as attorney general

reluctantly convinced me that I couldn’t vote for Spitzer. I really wanted to dso it.

I wasn’t afraid of harm he might do, because if a Comptroller issues a false report (or even a true one usually) nothing happens. But with a true one something could happen, and much more probably than with a false or misleading one, because for something to happen, other people have to take it up.

And he couldn’t tax anyone, or sue, except for a stockholder lawsuit and activiosts can do that anyway. Six things bad and 2 things good, and one of the two good things might have a result.

It’s the good thing a Comptroller does that matters and the bad falls by the wayside..

It was almost the perfect job for an “independent” bull in a China shop Eliot Spitzer..

Of course there is the fact that Comprtroller Harrison J Goldin brought on the fiscal crisis in New York City in 1974 and 1975 by his audits, resulting in crime going up even higher, because the people who were dictating what should be done were oblivious to the problem of high crime, so maybe Comptroller can do some harm.

Harrison J Goldin caused the fiscal crisis in the 1970s because eventually there was a “run on the bank” and the city had borrowed too much short term in order to save on interest. Mayor Abe Beame was actually getting the books more in order, but Goldin prevented that from happening. There was that too. Maybe a Comptroller could do harm.

I thought Spitzer would be much less dangerous in the Comptroller’s job than he was as Attorney General – or almost any other government job he could get – and he could do some good at random.

And Stringer was a machine politician, telling some lies I didn’t like to people (the editor of a Jewish newspaper was impressed or pretened to be impressed by Stringer saying he wouldn’t invest i companies that participated in the boycott of Israel.)

That’s one kind of campaign promise some of these politicians like to make – the can’t fail one. It’s illegal anyway for companies to do that, and the current Comptroller is probably also doing that and so would Spitzer.

Another kind of lie is when they take positions on matters that their job has nothing to do with

But Spitzer showed no signs of even being interested in auditing and reporting on the work of city agencies. Theer was nothing there, and Spitzer also started to impress me as being stupid.

Sammy Finkelman (764cfe) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:20 am

Also from Lester Jackson:

Choosing between 5 (major) Democratic candidates for mayor he said was like choosing what method of execution you want. About Lhota he said one thing many people (involved in politics?) don’t realize or don’t beleive is tghat campaigns matter, and he could win. In many places people who were never expected to win elections did.

Sammy Finkelman (764cfe) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:21 am

“I am proud to have run a campaign over the past nine weeks that many thought was incapable to mount,” said Mr. Spitzer, who was subdued but not emotional. “We did it in a way that made me proud to revisit the issues we fought for when I was attorney general and governor, to lay out an agenda of what we believed was right for this great city.”

“And though the odds were stacked against our campaign, I refused to just peter out and instead humped my way from borough to borough knocking on doors, hearing the ding dong of the bells, all the while hoping to get head — um, get ahead — of my competition. No candidate spent more time boning up on the issues, but sadly we were unable to penetrate many key voting blocs. It would have helped to have a larger wad of cash, but as my friend Francois Hollande might say, in the end I salute you messieurs and madames.”

JVW (23867e) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:23 am

This fella has a lot of issues. I can only imagine what kind of terrible scandal he would have caused with executive power, given his ego and the joy he takes in getting away with something that is wrong.

Dustin (303dca) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:26 am

Weiner … Spitzer …..

A Pox on both their houses!

askeptic (b8ab92) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:32 am

22. ==An election only for Public Advocate would cost $20 million, ten times its annual budget.==

Comment by elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:05 am

It seems awfully high. But if that amount is accurate, that’s a stunning observation, Sammy.

Tha’s what the New York Post says, without describing how it was calculated. It said the budget for Public Advocate is $2.3 million a year and that the cost of a runoff electiojn is estimated at $20 million. That’s works out to 8.69 times.

Every poll worker gets paid $200 a day – $300 actually for the first day but we had that yesterday.

The compensation was raised from $135 (and earlier $85) in 2001 (before the attacks) on the grounds that this way you’d get more commptenet people. Not true, by the way.

Sammy Finkelman (764cfe) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:48 am

Anthony Weiner is the man he’s chosen to be and he’s a perfect fit for MSNBC. They should jump at the chance to hire him.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:50 am

Anyway, since 2001 it’s been frozen at $200. (some positions get more, and the chairperson of the 4 people at the table where they sign people in gets an extra $3, frozen since who knows when.)

That year (2001) some people got paid for 4 elections:

$175 for the abbreviated Sept 11 ,2011 election. (where the votes did not count in the end, although most places I think they went through the process of closing the polls at about 12:30 pm)

$235 for Sept 25 (originally the runoff date) primary election.

$225 for the rescheduled mayoral runoff Thursday, October 11, 2011 – which avoided Tuesday because Tuesday was the Jewish holiday of Shemini Atzeres.

Many people did not work the Oct 11, 2001 election, but they did this at random, not picking the most experienced people but eliminating half the tables.

The extra $35 and $25 were for attending training classes $35 bonsus for the first electionn worked, and $25 for the second . This year the training class was 6 hours, although really more like 5 including the test – because we got training for both the old lever system and the new one – the old machines came back but only for the first two elections. And the bonus is $100 I think one time.

And, finally, $200 for the November 6, 2001 general election.

That’s four elections.

There were also 4 for some people in 2012 – a presidential primary in April and separate federal and state primaries, in June and September, and the general election in November. That covered two Board of Elections year as their year for training people runs from July to July.

Now when they had two elections, a September primary and a November general election, they generally paid for September at the end of October and for November by Christmas. The delay in payment was because the city was shuffling money around between different accounts. That year (2001) the final payment was so late that it came in the calendar year 2002 (January 9, 2002)
and they had to send out corrected 1099 forms, because the first ones had included the final payment for the November 6, 2001 general election.

Now they are supposed to send W-2 forms and pay Social Security taxes on that money, but they don’t, and a few years ago, I think 2010 they actually had people fill out forms.

In fact I think since about 1990 when Congress passed a law clarifying things, they are supposed to treat workers as employees and take out federal withholding tax, but at the New York Board of elections, it’s still 1935.

They do do direct deposit now, though.

Sammy Finkelman (764cfe) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:56 am

They just finished reading out the names of the September 11, 2001 victims. (since 8:46 am)

Sammy Finkelman (764cfe) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:59 am

27. Comment by Dustin (303dca) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:26 am

This fella has a lot of issues. I can only imagine what kind of terrible scandal he would have caused with executive power

He couldn’t have gtten elected, I told people here, although because of teh second scandal, he didn’t even make the runoff. (Even if he came out in top with something like 25%, he wouldn’t have won the runoff – and if he somehow won the runoff, he’d probably lose the genearl election.

given his ego and the joy he takes in getting away with something that is wrong

I’m not sure he liked getting away with things. If he did, he’d most likely have found an actual mistress instead of just doing some recruiting for that position)

The big problem here would have been that Anthony Weiner would have been/was/is entirely in Bill Clinton’s pocket. (although since the second scandal the Clintons have bene careful not to be associated woth him publicly, even through Huma Abedin, who’s been misisng from the campaign trail since after a day or two after her defense of Weiner.)

Sammy Finkelman (764cfe) — 9/11/2013 @ 10:04 am

“Bigger guys than you have tried to knock me down”.

Pat is bigger than Larry O’Donnell.

I guess that’s not a revelation.

Never mind.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 9/11/2013 @ 11:17 am

We haven’t seen the last of him.
Comment by htom (412a17) — 9/11/2013 @ 7:57 am

— Lord help us, we’ve already seen the least of him!

Icy (0de8a9) — 9/11/2013 @ 11:50 am

Weiner … Spitzer ….. A Pox on both their houses!
Comment by askeptic (b8ab92) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:32 am

And a cold sore on both of the– Hey! How ya doing?

Icy (0de8a9) — 9/11/2013 @ 11:53 am

Re: Bloomberg being possibly taken advanatage of by political consultants (in Zimmerman questioned thread which has gone into the Colorado recall election)

Bloomberg was taken advantage of in the 2009 general election by a man who had maybe done honest work for him before (I’m not sure on teh details) who got a lot of money for a “get out the vote/ballot security operation and did practically nothing while pocketing the money himself and using some of it to buy, I think, his parents’ house.

He was arrested and covincted, but Bloomberg wasn’t angry at him at all and almost reluctant to testify aagainst him (maybe because he figured he deserved the money for his previous work, and he really needed that money he stole to stay in his house or something like that)

Bloomberg came unexpectedly close to losing in 2009. Actually the final polls were wrong both in 2005 and 2009 and less wrong in 2009, but the result was to make the margin of victory by Bloomberg over Thompson in 2009 less than 5%. Polls had shown the margin in the 12% to 13% range.

Polls also showed that people were satusfied with the job he did as mayor, and also opposed a third term so Bloomberg concluded it was signing on to overriding by legislation the 2-term term limits -for one term – which had been put in place by a voter referendum – that nearly cost him re-election.

I myself never favored term limits for the mayor -at least 2 ratehr than 3 terms – but only for all those other offices that are not so often seriuously contested.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/11/2013 @ 11:59 am

Since gossip tabloids are integral to the fun in politics, the NYPost says that Spitzer is definitely headed for divorce and that weiner’s marriage is on the rocks.

JVW (23867e) — 9/11/2013 @ 1:07 pm

$20 million for an election in a city of 8 million people doesn’t seem absurdly high to me.

The marginal cost of additional races is pretty close to zero; there’s a huge fixed cost if you’re having the runoff at all, and then each additional race is only a little bit more expensive.

I didn’t vote for either Weiner or Spitzer.

aphrael (af01a5) — 9/11/2013 @ 1:15 pm

He made his bones on being nasty.

AZ Bob (c5d3cb) — 9/11/2013 @ 1:18 pm

It’s actually something of a pity that Spitzer lost the D primary. If he’d won that would have given R candidate John Burnett a major boost in the general election. Stringer’s a nice guy, mainstream D, and will probably win.

Milhouse (3d0df0) — 9/11/2013 @ 1:36 pm

Aphrael–just to be sure we’re on the same page–

You’re saying 20 mil for the first election and then another 20 mil for a runoff even if, for example, only one minor office is being run-off is not absurdly high?

elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/11/2013 @ 1:41 pm

I think what aphrael is getting at is the idea that since there is already going to be a runoff election for the Public Advocate office, adding a mayoral contest to it too doesn’t really increase the cost much.

JVW (23867e) — 9/11/2013 @ 1:53 pm

Comment by Milhouse (3d0df0) — 9/11/2013 @ 1:33 pm (Zimmerman thread)

292. For those who don’t realise it, de Blasio is probably the nearest thing mainstream politics has to a communist. His campaign was explicitly about class warfare.

Well, that and making sure black voters knew that even though he’s white, if they voted for him they’d still be putting a black family in Gracie Mansion.

Bloomberg was attributing his lead in the polls to that – he was running a commercial which featured his son in huge Afro. I don’t know how good Blooomberg’s political analysis is, though.
He oversimplifies tghat like he does everything else.

Bloomberg clumsily used the word racist at first to describe this, but took it back right way. This was in a New York magazine interview, and that detail from the interview was all over the news.

The day before it seemed Bloomberg might not endorse anyone. Then there was this, which came after the de Blasio lead in the polls was reported.

And the next day came a report that if deBlasio won the primary Bloomberg might endorse Lhota.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/11/2013 @ 1:57 pm

And it is not just Booomberg who doesn’t like deBlasio. Many Democrats, too.

Mark Green doesn’t like him at all because of an unfair attack ad in 2005 where he was linked to his brother – on the grounds his brother Stephen Green, was financing his campaign or maybe lifestyle – which wasn’t at all fair to Stephen Green. Let alone Mark.

Later de Blasio compiled a list of bad landlords, (slumlords) but according to Quinn in this election, he had used it as a fundraising tool, because he’d gotten contributionbs from some of these people.

Now maybe they went to him to try to get off the list, but if he also took campaign contributions from any of them, how valid and impartial is removing them from the list?

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/11/2013 @ 1:58 pm

deBlasio doesn’t strike me as a near Communist, but he sure looks like (and maybe acts like) Henry A. Wallace, the former vice president, who ran as a “Progressive” for president in 1948.

Maybe he’d associate with them if they existed and had a bit of power or support but they don’t exist.

So he has to make do with other kinds of dishonest people.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/11/2013 @ 2:00 pm

Comment by aphrael (af01a5) — 9/11/2013 @ 1:15 pm

The marginal cost of additional races is pretty close to zero

That was really about if the Public Advocate race was the only reason for a runoff. (and earlier elissa, who didn’t know about the Public Advocates race then aboout the mayoral election)

Of course the mayoral election is quite impoirtant enough in itself to justuify a runoff.

They should have it for other races too. And maybe reduce the threshhold below 40% And do something about if the top two finishers are in the 20s – just two then?

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/11/2013 @ 2:03 pm

41. Comment by Milhouse (3d0df0) — 9/11/2013 @ 1:36 pm

41.It’s actually something of a pity that Spitzer lost the D primary. If he’d won that would have given R candidate John Burnett a major boost in the general election. Stringer’s a nice guy, mainstream D, and will probably win.

Would you say the same thing about Thompson possibly winning a runoff? (Unlikely though given the margin unless deBlasio implodes)

I would think the Comptroller’s race is much harder for a Republic than the mayoral race.

But as I said, a Comptroller (usually) can’t do too much damage)

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/11/2013 @ 2:13 pm

It was already reported maybe amonth ago that Spitzer was headed for divorce, but his wife Silda was going to wait until after the election.

I don’t think Huma Abedin is at all contemplating divorce. She’s not a normal person – she’s a Hillary Clinton protege, and Hillary Clinton doesn’t get divorced. She’s just trying to avoid anything bad from Weiner affecting her career.

The Clintons probably still have some hopes for Anthony Weiner – that he can get into a job where he might be useful to them.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/11/2013 @ 2:17 pm

Lester Jackson, whom I spoke to on Monday around 6 pm, did not know anything or have an opinion on the District Attorney’s race, which surprised me,.

he also told me spontaneously that the New York Post website was terrible – every time they change it they make it worse.

I still will try sometime to get a link to the second front page New York Post RFK Jr story Monday – about his comments about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and others.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/11/2013 @ 2:20 pm

Huma took a lot of damage for a whole lot of nothing

she should at least get a day of beauty out of the deal I think or maybe some cheesecake

but you know sometimes life isn’t fair

God doesn’t want you to be happy Huma he wants you to be strong

happyfeet (c60db2) — 9/11/2013 @ 2:30 pm

i stole that from the hemlock diaries or whatever

happyfeet (c60db2) — 9/11/2013 @ 2:31 pm

Would you say the same thing about Thompson possibly winning a runoff?

No, just the opposite. For Lhota, it’s better to run against de Blasio than against Thompson. For New York, though, it’s better to have a choice between two at least somewhat decent candidates.

The comptroller’s race is different, because I don’t believe Spitzer could defeat Burnett. Most of the Ds who voted against him in the primary would also vote against him in the general.

Milhouse (3d0df0) — 9/11/2013 @ 2:34 pm

I don’t think Huma Abedin is at all contemplating divorce. She’s not a normal person – she’s a Hillary Clinton protege, and Hillary Clinton doesn’t get divorced. She’s just trying to avoid anything bad from Weiner affecting her career.

I get that, Sammy, but I think the whole Sydney Leathers foray into porn is, as they say in politics, a game-changer. That is a level of humiliation even beyond Bubba Clinton’s dalliances with various females in the Arkansas and DC worlds. Especially with Ms. Leathers showing up at the reception last night, Huma as to wonder how many more other publicity stunts she has to be subjected to.

Hillary did Stand by Your Man because she knew that Bubba was her path to higher office. What exactly can Anthony wiener provide for Huma at this time?

JVW (23867e) — 9/11/2013 @ 2:38 pm

Huma took a lot of damage for a whole lot of nothing

hf, what are you referring to as a “whole lot of nothing”?

Dana (6178d5) — 9/11/2013 @ 3:12 pm

mostly just the part where she was nationally humiliated and sacrificed her whatever integrity and dignity she may have had

she’s like that kid what went out to sell the cow and came home with magic beans except for she didn’t actually get any magic beans

plus now everyone learned about how she hates America and wants nothing more than to see our country forced to submit to savage Islamic hordes

happyfeet (c60db2) — 9/11/2013 @ 3:27 pm

Johnny Cash and Rockefeller were both better finger givers.

Birdbath (716828) — 9/11/2013 @ 3:34 pm

Comment by Milhouse (3d0df0) — 9/11/2013 @ 2:34 pm

No, just the opposite. For Lhota, it’s better to run against de Blasio than against Thompson. For New York, though, it’s better to have a choice between two at least somewhat decent candidates.

Yes. To be a decent mayor though, Thompson would have to betray some voters.

The comptroller’s race is different, because I don’t believe Spitzer could defeat Burnett. Most of the Ds who voted against him in the primary would also vote against him in the general.

Weiner is that weak, but I don’t think Spitzer was. Burnett right now is a complete nobody.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/11/2013 @ 3:54 pm

45. I meant the accusations against stephen green weren’t fair.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/11/2013 @ 3:55 pm

The New York Post had a sory in the saturday paper about Spitzer giving money ($70,000) to a group – Time for Change Consulting – that is linked to disgraced and convicted former Brooklyn boss Clarence Norman (he was convicted for taking illegal campaign contributions)

This was for Get Out the Vote.

Spitzer was going after minority support where news about him hadn’t penetrated.

These people also were supporting the camapaign aga9nst DA Hynes who was not good himself. there was a third canoddate but he had been persuaded to srop out.

I don’t know what will happen now. Somebody must have thought the new DA was a useful idiot.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/11/2013 @ 4:01 pm

Another story in the Sat New York Post:

The UFT (United Federation of Teachers) sent out a mailer witha checklist of a list of issues that Thompson supported, one of which was Retro-active pay, except that Thompson had NOT SUPORTED RETROACTIVE PAY!

His spokesman told the NYP he hadn’t either publicly or privately.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/11/2013 @ 4:05 pm

elissa, I’d just like to point something out.

Lawrence’s goal was … to show himself so brutally honestly, and to reveal himself as being so toxic, and so out of control, and so un-selfaware that both the Clintons and all the Democrats can now quietly discard, disown, and abandon him.

If you cut the two words replaced by ellipses, “for Weiner,” out of that sentence it still works equally well as a statement about O’Donnell.

I really couldn’t root for anyone in that cat fight.

Steve57 (fe9fb8) — 9/11/2013 @ 4:07 pm

Steve57. O’Donnell is a horses ass and a supreme partisan hack. Just back in July he’d criticized the New York press for calling on Weiner to resign from the mayoral race, calling them hypocritical. (Of course that was still when the Clintons and Huma were on board the Anthony express.) But if you watched the whole of the two recent clips, it was Lawrence who looked sane and calm. That was what made me realize that he was on a mission and that he had succeeded. He’s been a Hillary Clinton man for a long time and we’ll see them regularly using Lawrence and Lawrence touting her.

elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/11/2013 @ 4:25 pm

I totally agree about O’Donnell. Lary and Rosie must have been separated at birth. Surgically. Have you noticed how both their moonfaces look identical when they get intense about something and give that six-month-old-with-flatulence glower?

BTW, my usual response to “Why are you here?” or “Why are you doing this?” fallacies is not fit for ladies to hear.

nk (875f57) — 9/11/2013 @ 4:45 pm

Steve57. O’Donnell is a horses ass and a supreme partisan hack.

Agreed. Which is why I found it supremely ironic when O’Donnell went off on Weiner for doing the “classic hack thing.” It was hack vs. hack.

I thought Weiner made one good point. If O’Donnell managed to look like the adult in the room, he did it on a show almost no one watches.

Steve57 (fe9fb8) — 9/11/2013 @ 4:49 pm

About Lhota he said one thing many people (involved in politics?) don’t realize or don’t beleive is tghat campaigns matter, and he could win.

I guess if I dislike NYC, I’ll cross my fingers and hope that its voters instead punch the chad or pull the lever for the most liberal candidate possible. The Detroit Syndrome is something that one wishes on places he or she would love to see self-destruct.

As for Weiner, the extent of just how shameless, brazen and apparently quite aberrant he is was not fully evident until the last several weeks, by his choosing to stay in the race and turning himself into a walking spectacle.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/11/2013 @ 6:58 pm

==I guess if I dislike NYC, I’ll cross my fingers and hope that its voters instead punch the chad or pull the lever for the most liberal candidate possible. The Detroit Syndrome is something that one wishes on places he or she would love to see self-destruct.==

WTF?? What a horrible thing to say.

elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/11/2013 @ 7:11 pm

I read that if one registers as a “Republican” in NYC these days, one can expect a tax audit to be in one’s near-term future. It’s like clockwork.

Colonel Haiku (f07db7) — 9/11/2013 @ 7:21 pm

O’Donnell was once reduced to a mewling little simp by the late Cathy Seipp on CNBC’s Dennis Miller Show.

Colonel Haiku (f07db7) — 9/11/2013 @ 7:24 pm

America can largely manage the self-destruction of Detroit, seeing as how it came slowly over a 50-year period. I don’t think we will be able to manage the self-destruction of New York, so frankly we all have reason to hope they avoid the potential folly of de Blasio.

JVW (23867e) — 9/11/2013 @ 7:28 pm

69. O’Donnell was once reduced to a mewling little simp by the late Cathy Seipp on CNBC’s Dennis Miller Show.

Comment by Colonel Haiku (f07db7) — 9/11/2013 @ 7:24 pm

I always liked Cathy Seipp.

The main negative thing I have to say about Wiener’s judgement in this case is he should have gone on Anderson Cooper 360. Because that’s about the only show other than O’Donnell’s that even less people would have been likely to see him on in that time slot.

Steve57 (fe9fb8) — 9/11/2013 @ 7:51 pm

Anthony Weiner is a very angry man. And he hasn’t even figured out yet that it’s really himself that he’s angry with.

Comment by elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:56 am

Wrong, Elissa! I am not the least angry with myself. Angry I am about being caught and having it held against me, since everyone should know that democrats have no morals, and what I did is known in my party as a resume enhancement!

Anthony Weiner (ee1de0) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:02 pm

Denial is not just a river in Egypt, Anthony! God luv ya.

elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:08 pm

WTF?? What a horrible thing to say.

I’d say it were horrible if most of the people in a community like Detroit (or New York City, should it also spiral out of control) were sensible, objective, non-dogmatic voters who couldn’t be characterized as their own worst enemy. People who try their hardest to do the right thing but still stumble and fumble, and perhaps fail, trigger my sympathy. By contrast, people who, among other things, happily and idiotically vote for convicted felons, as folks in Detroit did late last year, elicit more of a stifled yawn (or, actually, a reaction of scorn) from me.

Politics aside, because of non-ideological, non-governmental factors — because of a city’s unique role of being in the right place at the right time — the Big Apple will always manage to do quite well, in spite of itself. It’s sort of similar to the way that the city of London (no less true blue than blue-blue urban America) reigns supreme in Europe, even though its home country, the UK, has become increasingly marginalized through the decades.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:34 pm

London had the good sense to ditch Ken Livingstone for Boris Johnson, just as NYC once ditched David Dinkins for Rudy Giuliani. Perhaps neither city is as destined for failure as we may privately fear.

JVW (23867e) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:40 pm

Spin away, Mark. In your previous comment you were jonesing for the self-destruction of America’s largest city said you wished the “Detriot syndrome” on it. It’s there in black and white.

elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/11/2013 @ 8:48 pm

Hello. I would like to tell Anthony Weiner I know where you can get a lovely sirah for under $4, but not in NY. You can get my email from the owner of this blog and I hook you up. Sorry about how your race went you would’ve been a perfect mayor but you know sometimes life isn’t fair.

happyfeet (8ce051) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:06 pm

I’ve never looked. Does Hallmark have cards for losing mayoral candidates also suffering from a nasty side case of teh crazee?

elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:14 pm

Elissa, when it comes to many voters in blue-blue, true-blue urban America, if they believe their traditional way of filling in ballots on election day, and their political biases in general, will somehow lead to prosperity, rainbows, butterflies, unicorns and all-around wonderfulness, then who am I to say otherwise? I can only shout, “go for it!”

Perhaps neither city is as destined for failure as we may privately fear.

I may harp on politics, but I do admit that if a place is full of enough bright, talented, resourceful people — even if they’re mostly nonsensically liberal — they’ll probably somehow always manage to do well and to maintain a fairly decent community—with the proviso that if socio-political trends drift into overly extreme territory, the sad lessons of an Argentina or Spain will prevail.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:15 pm

“I may harp on politics”

Mark – You seem to harp more on sexual preferences to the extent of obsessiveness and creepiness and political correctness, but rationalize to your heart’s content. This is America!

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/11/2013 @ 9:57 pm

I may harp on politics, but I do admit that if a place is full of enough bright, talented, resourceful people — even if they’re mostly nonsensically liberal — they’ll probably somehow always manage to do well and to maintain a fairly decent community—with the proviso that if socio-political trends drift into overly extreme territory, the sad lessons of an Argentina or Spain will prevail.

Well my point was more along the lines of no matter how far cities like London and New York (or Los Angeles or Chicago or Paris or Berlin) drift towards the hard left, they seem to be sensible enough to pull themselves back from the abyss by occasionally electing someone from the center-right in order to shake things up. One reason Detroit could never right the ship is because they got fully immersed into the ugly stench of 1960s radical Black Power politics and could never find their way back to sanity from that loony bin.

JVW (23867e) — 9/11/2013 @ 10:43 pm

Obama is super bisexual to where he’s all like mmmm mmmm gotta get me some o dat and it makes no difference if he’s looking at a mens or a womans. This is why Syria. Also the surfeit of food stamps in our country.

Putin being purely gay is much less conflicted. This is why he wins the Syria.

Meanwhile M’chelle says you should drink more water and I know that the majority of you, you are not drinking water right now, are you? No you are not therefore you are deficient.

Exceptional my left nut.

happyfeet (8ce051) — 9/11/2013 @ 11:14 pm

You seem to harp more on sexual preferences

daleyrocks, you don’t think the agenda of “GLBT” is very much a part of the political world — very much about and of politics — in today’s era?! If there’s an obsessiveness or creepiness about that matter, that’s merely a reflection of how leftwing our society has become and is becoming. “GLBT” is infusing so much of national debate and rhetoric in this part of the 21st century.

they seem to be sensible enough to pull themselves back from the abyss

JVW, that is something worth acknowledging and is quite relevant in light of previous posts in this thread that talk about yesterday’s recall election in Colorado. However, I do sense the rebound effect from enough voters shaking off their liberal stupor on occasion seems like it is becoming increasingly smaller and smaller, since the middle point of the socio-political spectrum is shifting further and further to the left.

For example, daleyrocks mentions the issue of sexual preferences. Who would have predicted years ago that a public figure — or people in general — merely stating a belief that marriage should be between a man and a woman would end up as the one with the controversial or outlier point of view? Or that Russia’s president (ie Putin) would be the figurehead who sounds more rational or less belligerent than America’s president?

Mark (58ea35) — 9/11/2013 @ 11:29 pm

…I know that the majority of you, you are not drinking water right now, are you?

Are you kidding, Mr. Feets? Barack Obama is our President. Did you catch his victory speech about how it was the plan all along to convince Putin to pants him in public?

The last thing any sane American wants to drink is water.

Steve57 (fe9fb8) — 9/11/2013 @ 11:30 pm

I’m thinking of taking up heroin. Mostly because if Barack Obama could run for a third term, he might win.

Steve57 (fe9fb8) — 9/11/2013 @ 11:32 pm

I am drinking my water. With two KitKats and I’m not sure whether to have a Snickers or Hershey’s to follow. Maybe I’ll have both. Did you ever see that movie “Like Water and Chocolate”?

nk (875f57) — 9/11/2013 @ 11:35 pm

I should have qualified my statement, nk. Just saying, this is my most recent reaction to my President’s smart power:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WAwuSK36Gw

Steve57 (fe9fb8) — 9/11/2013 @ 11:45 pm

“If there’s an obsessiveness or creepiness about that matter, that’s merely a reflection of how leftwing our society has become and is becoming.”

Mark – What is obsessive or creepy about it is how much you comment about it or introduce it to a thread even when it is not relevant to the topic being discussed.

daleyrocks, you don’t think the agenda of “GLBT” is very much a part of the political world

I think it is very strange to frame every political issue in terms of the “GLBT” agenda. Unless it is a specifically “GLBT” issue, the thought usually never crosses my mind, which is why your obsession seems so unusual.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/12/2013 @ 12:18 am

I’ll take a stab at answering O’Donnell’s question.

Weiner loves wielding two things, and they both start with a p.

He could have have gotten away with it if he had a little patience and self-control, but no, he had to get back into office now , and he had to continue the sexting even after resigning.

norcal (065347) — 9/12/2013 @ 1:17 am

I think it is very strange to frame every political issue in terms of the “GLBT” agenda.

Every? Are you sure about that, daleyrocks?

Not too clear why you think that topic is cited in so many of my posts — particularly if you’re not referring to my digs at the guy now in the White House (and how peculiar his background is for a US president) or the two-faced nature of liberals like Alec Baldwin — above and beyond the way it has become a major controversy in today’s era.

One might just as well think it’s strange and obsessive that the very subject of Anthony Weiner (who, after all, is a somewhat localized pol out of the East Coast) has been a major name in the news over the past several months, and that various pundits often frame the debate about him in ways full of wink-wink double entendres.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/12/2013 @ 7:38 am

Thompson said yesterday he was going to court to secure the ballots.

He said diBlasio had about 1,200 votes above 40% and there 16,000 votes still to be counted (that’s probably only absentee ballots)

Emergency ballots should have bene counted and affidavit envelopes have to be examined one by one.

If there are 16,000 out, all candidates besides de Blasio need to get slightly above 2.3 for there to be a runoff.

If the absentee ballots are older than a week de Blasio should not make it among that batch as he didn’t really climb in the polls till the last week or two.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/12/2013 @ 7:38 am

Curtis sliwa and firmer Governor David Paterson were on the air today (on a minor station)

It seems like Lhota is trying to get a phot-op with Al Sharpton and they discussed it. Paterson didn’t really have an explanation for that. People picot but it;’s bad that fats. he surely couldn’t be wanting Sharpton’s endorsement. he thought maybe it was to get attention – Bloomberg had money in 2001, and Giuliani in 1993 was already known.

I’d say this sounds to me like:

1) Lhota doesn’t understand how truly bad aperson Al Sharpton is.

2) It doesn’t matter (the meeting)

3) This may stem from the idea that he;s got to wage a campaign everywhere.

4) The idea wouldn’t be to get Sharpton’s endorsement but to prevent attacks, which would rfesult in Sharpton giving him a kosher certification for blacks, which would be even more valuable. If Sharpton turned it down, it is also valuable, and hurts Sharpton.

5) Lhota understand the value of going into areas where he is weak. He campaign very much in Staten Island during the Republican primary. It has I think 29% of all NYC Republicans. Now his opponent won Staten Island, but that was precisely the best place then to campaign.

6) Lester Jackson told me earlier this week that after Bloomberg won he was almost srorry he voted for him because almost the first thing he did was kiss Sharpton’s ring. So it could be perceived as bad. Lhota has taken a very strong position in favor of stop and frisk and so long as that remains true, and people know it, he can’t be perceived as caving in to Sharpton.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/12/2013 @ 7:47 am

An exit poll in the New York Times Wednesday had 9% of voters saying that they were gay lesbian or bisexual. (it was one of the categories broken out)

It is impossible to be that high even with Greenwich Village and Manhattan below Houston Street being a something of a mecca.

This shows you the difficulty of determining the true incidence of something when the incidence is very low.

People lie to pollsters.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/12/2013 @ 7:50 am

Elissa, i’m saying the cost of the runoff is supposed to be $20mil. That’s true whether the runoff has one race on it (public advocate) or two (public advocate and mayor). So JVW is right in his interpretation of what i’m saying. 🙂

I’m also saying that $20mil doesn’t seem absurdly high to me for an election in a city this size. It only seems absurd given the size of the public advocate’s budget.

aphrael (f55c78) — 9/12/2013 @ 9:09 am

Sammy, at 93, why is it ‘impossible to be that high’?

If nothing else, the numbers could be explained by postulating that turnout is higher in the GLB community than in the community at large. I don’t know if this is *true*, but it’s a plausible option and so your “impossible” rings very, very false to me.

aphrael (f55c78) — 9/12/2013 @ 9:10 am

Actually even $20 million is probably an exagerration, as it probably includes an allocation of some of the overhead of just being able to run any election that year.

e.g. Full time employees, supplies used in more than one election, cost of buying or at least maintaining the voting equipment, maybe even police officer’s time who would be on duty somewhere else most likely.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/12/2013 @ 9:13 am

Also, this primary had wierd costs because they summoned the mechanical voting devices back out of the warehouses, just for the occasion.

aphrael (f55c78) — 9/12/2013 @ 9:17 am

95. CVmment by aphrael (f55c78) — 9/12/2013 @ 9:10 am

Sammy, at 93, why is it ‘impossible to be that high’?

It hasn’t noticeably grown really in recent years, or at most has grown to pre-1980 levels.

Ask yourself how many people died in New York City of AIDS any given year before 1995, what percentage contracted the disease got it from homosexual activity, therefore what is the absolute number of male homosecuals who died, than ask yourself what percentage that was of all male gays, and you can calculate the absolute number of gays who lived in the city circa 1986.

And add 50% to account for lesbians. Assume male bisexuals are minimal. Assume that vote turnout is as high as it gets in any other group, but not higher.

Take that number and divide by total votes cast in the mid-1980s.

I don’t know what you would get but it can’t be near 10%. There would be more of an impact.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/12/2013 @ 9:25 am

97. Comment by aphrael (f55c78) — 9/12/2013 @ 9:17 am

Also, this primary had wierd costs because they summoned the mechanical voting devices back out of the warehouses, just for the occasion.

They are brought back for 2 elections – the primary and the runoff – but for the general election we get back the paper ballots and the scanners.

I don’t know if using the old machines. They had to check them and fix them.

Maybe some people who might otherwise work for the Education Department (custodial staff?) had to paid for more hours?

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/12/2013 @ 9:31 am

I think there were more problems with the lever machines this year than there used to be. It didn’t feel right.

I think the reason could be that, before, certain areas got the good machines and certain areas did not (the subway system works like that too) and certain machines known to be troublesome were not used at all, or only used in a pinch. But now they lost track of which were the good machines and which were not.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/12/2013 @ 9:32 am

Two candidates actually hgad troubke voting.

Anthony Weiner found that his siganture was not in the book. This is probably related to his having moved since the last election. (he must have cast an affidavit ballot in the 2012 Presidential election.)

So,ebody else mght have cast an affidavt ballot – and they may all need to be looked at to determine if deblasio falls over or under 40% – but since Weiner was being followed by reporters and since he knows more what to do, he probably went and gort a court order because the newspaper said it took him over an hour to vote. That probably means he went or sent someone to a judge and then voted on the mnachine.

Joe Lhota, voting in Brooklyn Heights – I didn;t know he lived there – encountered machines that did not work. He could have tried coming back later in the day (they had trucks with spare mnachines for such cases) but he cast a paper ballot. These are called emergency ballots and are counted and reported at the end of the day.

The news media would have been following 5 Democrats and 3 Republicans, so our sampl is 25% having trouble, but weiner;s was because he recently moved, and the Board of Elections had not yet scaned his voter registrations signature or got into the file to be printed in a book for every election.

A long time ago we used to use the original yellow forms and sign one more line every year.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/12/2013 @ 9:39 am

98.95. Comment by aphrael (f55c78) — 9/12/2013 @ 9:10 am

Sammy, at 93, why is it ‘impossible to be that high’?

I’ll be more exact.

A long time ago by now I made a calculation. You can make ths calculation a number of different ways. It requires some figures be estimated but for some of them you know within a factor of two or three what it is.

At the close of 1991 the number of people who had died of AIDS in the United states who had gotten AIDS from homosecxual sex was just about exactly 100,000.

The number of adult males in the United states around the year 1980, at the start of the epidemic, was around 100 million.

A large percentage of homosexuals died. If I said 1/3 of those living in 1980 by the end of 1991, that would be low.

So it comes out the total alive at the beginning was 300,000 and probably lower.

300,000 divided into 100 million (1,000,000) is one third of one per cent. Remember 1 million is 1% of 100 million and 300,000 is less than a third of that. And it was probably lower.

Consequently it comes out that the percentage of men who were gay was not 10%, not 5% not 2% not even 1% but one of one per cent.

A lot of people did not want anybody to make this calcuklation in the 1980s

Now half of all cases of AIDS were in New York City.

Assuming that the balance from different causes was the same, we have 50,000 male homosexuals in New York City who died of AIDS by the end of 1991.

(The percentage from different causes shouldn’t be too different from the national figures. HIV did not get out into the minority IV drug using community until about 1987, and the infection of drug addicts by HIV had not yet reduced the crime rate. It was barely noticeable in 1991. (HIV is not the only cause of the drop in crime since the 1980s, but it was what got the ball rolling)

The percentage of homosexuals who died in New York City might be a bit higher than elsewhere, but also the percentage of cases where they got infected that way might be higher. That cancels out so we can say there were roughly 150,000 male homosexuals in New York City at the time of the 1980 Census.

150,000 divided by 4 million (half the population) is 3.75% – say 4%. Gay, lesbian etc – you average 4% with 2% and you get 3%. Now these are all adults. One third of a population in general is children.So that takes you up to 4.5% of people over 18.

Now this is 1980. The numbers should be about the same right now.

The GLBT community are almost all U.S. citizens so maybe we can get a bit higher too. They also trend younger.

But making all adjustments you should not reach anywhere close to 9% of the voters.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/12/2013 @ 12:41 pm

Remember, adjusting for age you get no higher than about 4.5% or so of the city’s population of people over of voting age.

Adjusting for citizenship and political activism can’t double the number.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/12/2013 @ 12:43 pm

Sammy – I’m not sure I buy that *if you include bisexuals* you get no higher than 4.5% of the voting age population. The 2000 American Community Survey showed 4.5% *of the total population*, and I woudl expect the number to be higher today.

aphrael (40deda) — 9/12/2013 @ 3:06 pm

Surveys are useless for anything that has a true incidence below 5%. Any question you ask 5% or so will simply give wrong information.

That’s why nobody tries to estimate the number of Jews in the United states with a survey.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/12/2013 @ 3:45 pm

City Sets Aside Voting Machine in Midtown for Single Voter Who Didn’t Show

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/12/2013 @ 3:46 pm

Totally silly. Weiner was a DC lobbyist he can go back to doing that full time.

If not, he can always head west to LA and ask Steven Hirsh, head of Vivid pictures, to put him on their studio’s executive board.

It would be the perfect job for him. Then he can practice his hobby: Talk and text to various young 20 somethings to his heart’s content. Perhaps the AVN could even publish some of his writings on their websites and blogs.

He should follow his longtime hobby, and practice makes perfect.

Kenneth Simmons (88736a) — 9/12/2013 @ 4:06 pm

beat this one, Weinah!

http://theselvedgeyard.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/johnny20cash20finger202.jpg?w=369&h=290

Colonel Haiku (2051b1) — 9/12/2013 @ 5:00 pm

Ketchum also worked for the Bush ’43 Department of Education, to promote No Child Left Behind in 2004, and was the source of $240,000 in payola to Armstrong Williams for that purpose.

nk (875f57) — 9/12/2013 @ 5:07 pm

Wrong thread.

nk (875f57) — 9/12/2013 @ 5:08 pm

If not, he can always head west to LA and ask Steven Hirsh, head of Vivid pictures, to put him on their studio’s executive board.

Got news for you, Kenneth. If LA County or the courts refuse to retract the recently-enacted condom law, and if the California legislature adopts a statewide version, Vivid and all the other porn companies are likely to relocate to Nevada or Arizona.

JVW (23867e) — 9/12/2013 @ 5:27 pm

That’s why nobody tries to estimate the number of Jews in the United states with a survey.

Actually they do. The results are controversial, of course, partly for the reason you mentioned, but the surveys are fairly regularly done.

Milhouse (3d0df0) — 9/12/2013 @ 10:43 pm

Well, having bombed out yet again in the NYC mayor’s race (what was this, his third attempt?), it looks like Albanese has turned his sights elsewhere. 🙂

Meanwhile, Mr Rabbit is finally Prime Minister. A pity Peter Costello bailed out of politics a few years ago, and isn’t available to be Abbot’s deputy.

Milhouse (3d0df0) — 9/12/2013 @ 10:53 pm

Oops, forgot to terminate that link.

Milhouse (3d0df0) — 9/12/2013 @ 10:54 pm

HIV is not the only cause of the drop in crime since the 1980s, but it was what got the ball rolling

I have become accustomed to Sammy’s way of treating wild assumptions as though they are facts, but still this one caught my eye.

BTW I don’t find it too hard to believe that any politically activated group could drastically increase its voter participation rate, especially in a local election.

Dustin (303dca) — 9/12/2013 @ 10:59 pm

“That’s why nobody tries to estimate the number of Jews in the United states with a survey.

Comment by Milhouse (3d0df0) — 9/12/2013 @ 10:43 pm

Actually they do. The results are controversial, of course, partly for the reason you mentioned, but the surveys are fairly regularly done. </i.

This is not a survey where somebody just does a poll and asks. They try all kinds of complicated ways to get at the number. It's not just the problem of deciding who is Jewish.

http://www.thejewishweek.com/editorial_opinion/gary_rosenblatt/how_many_us_jews_and_who_cares

Leonard Saxe, a leading social psychologist at Brandeis who organized and hosted this week’s conference, noted that one of the reasons the 2000 study lacked impact was because experts weren’t comfortable with the findings. He cited, for example, its statistic that 29 percent of American Jewish youngsters attended day schools, which he said was much too high.

“Anomalies like that left us scratching our heads,” he said.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/13/2013 @ 1:45 am

“HIV is not the only cause of the drop in crime since the 1980s, but it was what got the ball rolling”

115. Comment by Dustin (303dca) — 9/12/2013 @ 10:59 pm

I have become accustomed to Sammy’s way of treating wild assumptions as though they are facts, but still this one caught my eye.

This is one of those things that, in the final analysis, it is impossible to disagree with I think. It’s not a wild assumption – it’s just something nobody else said.

But try any alternative. And then see how well this fits. It’s the only thing that explains why crime dropped so much faster and sooner in New Yuork City, for instance.

To everyone else, this is a big mystery:

The curious case of the fall in crime

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21582004-crime-plunging-rich-world-keep-it-down-governments-should-focus-prevention-not

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/13/2013 @ 1:57 am

103. SF “Remember, adjusting for age you get no higher than about 4.5% or so of the city’s population of people over of voting age.

Adjusting for citizenship and political activism can’t double the number”

Actually maybe it could. Assume you have 5% of registered voters. Now since there’s a 6 to 1 Democratic Party registration advantage, that probably is not significant.

But overall turnout was about 20%.

If say, a subgroup had a 40% turnout, that would double the percentage.

95% of voters times 20% = 19
5% of voters times 40% = 2

2/21 = 9.5238

But I think the 9% in the survey is more probably partially caused by people lying to the surveyers because of friendship and because they support those issues. I don’t think there’d be such a big difference in turnout. There would be such a big difference between subgroups, but for 75% of registered voters, the turnout level should be about the same, and that includes this.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/13/2013 @ 2:15 am

106. (City Sets Aside Voting Machine in Midtown for Single Voter Who Didn’t Show)

That should not have happened because then it wouldn’t be a secret ballot but evidentaly nobody caught that.

You probably had such a small election district because of the ways the different lines for City Council, State Assembly, State Senate and member of Congress, maybe also a court district, overlap, so that this tiny area maybe was the only place where all of these were the same, but for this election, that election district should have been combined with some other one.

In the past when we had primaries for very smll parties, with few registered voters, we got instructions to have them vote by paper ballot and not on the machine. (with the new system, votes from all election districts in a polling place are combined, but on the old system – wait actually the machine totals them separately, so it;s still important, and in any case for this election we used the old lever machines.)

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/13/2013 @ 2:22 am

I was surprised that Sal Albanese came in dead last, below two people I never heard of before I saw a newspaper ad from the Board of elections that listed the names of the people who would be on the ballot, and read the Voter Guide the Board of Elections sends out.

That’s another cost of the runoff maybe. Things put in the mail.

Besides the five major candidates for the democratic nomnination for mayor that the newspapers limited themselves to (Anthony Weiner, John Liu, Christine Quinn, Bill Thompson and Bill de Blasio, I knew about Sal Albanese and found out about Erick Salgado, but I never heard about Randy Credito and Neil Vincent Grimaldi.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/13/2013 @ 2:29 am

(The Voter Guide also contained the name of He Gin Lee, but he was not on the ballot, so I don’t know what happened to him. The statements were probably collected early.)

http://politicker.com/2013/07/two-mayoral-candidates-face-petition-challenges/

He Gin Lee, a Democrat that was booted from the ballot in 2009, is again facing objections, according to a ledger provided by the city’s Board of Elections today. And Sam Sloan, who is trying to create his own ballot line to run on, is enduring a challenge to his GOP petitions, too.

Mr. Lee is being challenged by a supporter of Comptroller John Liu, Bright Limm. While Mr. Limm said his challenge was not sanctioned by the Liu campaign, Mr. Liu, would likely benefit politically from being the sole Asian-American candidate in the race. (Mr. Liu was born in Taiwan while Mr. Lee hails from South Korea.)

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/13/2013 @ 2:30 am

This is one of those things that, in the final analysis, it is impossible to disagree with I think. It’s not a wild assumption – it’s just something nobody else said.

I disagree. See? It’s possible. A fraction of needle sharing bums getting AIDS triggers a drop in crimes across the board?

I think NYC’s drop in crime is closely related to a major change in law enforcement. You see, while crime went down, ARRESTS WENT UP. They simply caught a lot more of the bad guys, and put them away. I also think NYC shows much more recent fluctuations (including nice drops) in crime rates today that obviously are not caused by your impossible to disagree with wild assumption. No disrespect intended… I know this is just how you think, but the explanation of most things is much, much simpler than you tend to think it is. They catch more bad guys and lock them up longer, and guess what… there’s less actual crime happening because the bad guys are in jail or prison. That works.
———————-
Actually came to commend on this
From the video

Weiner: Bigger guys than you have tried to knock me down.

Weiner is amazingly unaware of himself if he doesn’t realize he is down, and has been. It didn’t take a ‘big man’. He did it to himself. But a politician who loses an election and finds his name permanently linked to a lot of bad stuff, he sure is cocky.

Dustin (303dca) — 9/13/2013 @ 2:37 am

HIV is not the only cause of the drop in crime since the 1980s, but it was what got the ball rolling

No, it was unleaded gas. No, wait, it was lower consumption of dairy products. Do you know the difference between coincidence, correlation and causation? Were hemophiliacs and homosexuals committing a lot of crimes back then, before AIDS wiped out the hemophiliacs and decimated the homosexuals? Did the number of IV drug users and prostitutes never regain pre-HIV levels? Was there an upturn in crime by hemophiliacs after blood started being screened for HIV? I know, I know, it was rescidivists who contracted AIDS in prison and died before they could go back to a life of crime upon release. Really, Sammy!

nk (875f57) — 9/13/2013 @ 4:54 am

That’s why nobody tries to estimate the number of Jews in the United states with a survey.

Your contention that the percentage of the GLBT (or certainly strictly gay) population is exaggerated — at least based on public perception, if not just actual statistics — is illustrated by certain opinion polls indicating that a large majority of people often overstate the number of minorities (ie, blacks, Jews, etc) they assume exist in the US. Vocal activists can easily make the public think that the group such activists are rallying around is more visible and widespread than it really is.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/13/2013 @ 7:22 am

Weiner is amazingly unaware of himself if he doesn’t realize he is down, and has been. It didn’t take a ‘big man’. He did it to himself.

Dustin, the lack of self-awareness combined with a magnitude of hubris and arrogance is what marks these types of men (see: Clinton, Bill). They assume that people will not hold them to any consequences for their actions because in their own eyes they are indispensable, and a weak public needs them so much that they will be willing to overlook such behaviors. And, I would go so far as to say they don’t actually believe they did anything wrong… or wrong enough to warrant consequences.

To this day, I don’t think Clinton believes he did anything wrong.

Dana (6178d5) — 9/13/2013 @ 7:30 am

Mark wrote: daleyrocks, you don’t think the agenda of “GLBT” is very much a part of the political world — very much about and of politics — in today’s era?! If there’s an obsessiveness or creepiness about that matter, that’s merely a reflection of how leftwing our society has become and is becoming. “GLBT” is infusing so much of national debate and rhetoric in this part of the 21st century.

……….

Spot on. And bringing society down to its lowest common denominator, together with the larger liberal sexuality agenda it is a part of.

However, a note about labels. You can only say all of this is “left-wing,” in the more local context of modern US culture only (not in global and historical left-right political culture).

Many countries with a past communist/socialist system continue to uphold good traditional values, while the US is destroying the remains of its socially conservative society with a fierceness that one could never have foreseen a few decades ago. I think liberalism is very capitalist (as in savage capitalism/profit above morality/ and extreme egoism/narcissism) and very destructive, because it attacks the most fundamental structures of society: the personal realm, what holds society together. I find it very ironic that, post-cold war, while the US drives itself into the ditch, Putin stands firm to defend his society from this homosexuality agenda crap.

There are some old guard conservatives that informally label liberals as “Marxists/commies,” even when they are talking about culture wars families/relationships issues. Now that becomes untenable in today’s world. “Liberal,” definitely yes, “left-winger,” loosely, but in the US the majority of Americans who support and promote homosexuality, porn, and sex outside marriage are not even remotely Marxist – they are staunch, obnoxious capitalists, usually younger (but also their parents), snotty materialistic types, who will support uncritically a deranged and out-of-control military-industrial complex, if that means they can get their hands on the latest iPhone or sexually harass boys in the BSA with impunity in the name of equality and inclusion. These are the younger emblem of capitalism today.

Alessandra (205de0) — 9/13/2013 @ 8:02 am

To this day, I don’t think Clinton believes he did anything wrong.

Comment by Dana (6178d5) — 9/13/2013 @

By far the best thing about Weiner is how he has reinvigorated the issue of Clinton sleaziness and the weirdness of standing by your man for your political career’s sake.

But yeah, obviously these guys do not feel guilt. Weiner cried a lot about how bad he felt, but flip that switch and he’s flipping you off.

Dustin (303dca) — 9/13/2013 @ 10:24 am

“HIV is not the only cause of the drop in crime since the 1980s, but it was what got the ball rolling.”

123. Comment by nk (875f57) — 9/13/2013 @ 4:54 am

No, it was unleaded gas.

That’s the one the liberals like.

It’s a cause that does not involve any pressure from outside, and assumes that crime is atotally individual phenomena.

By the way, there is only the loosest correlation, if there is one.

No, wait, it was lower consumption of dairy products.

I didn’t hear that one.

Do you know the difference between coincidence, correlation and causation?

Yes I do.

Were hemophiliacs and homosexuals committing a lot of crimes back then, before AIDS wiped out the hemophiliacs and decimated the homosexuals?

When AIDS was hitting hemophiliacs and homosexuals, crime did not go down. It was a good number of years into the epidemic when it finally crossed over significantly into IV-drug users, and that’s when the crime rate began going down. I mean the late 1980s

Did the number of IV drug users and prostitutes never regain pre-HIV levels?

Prostitutes were victims of AIDS but not transmitters. I think IV drug users did indeed decline.

Was there an upturn in crime by hemophiliacs after blood started being screened for HIV? I know, I know, it was rescidivists who contracted AIDS in prison and died before they could go back to a life of crime upon release. Really, Sammy!

IV drug users commit crimes to feed their habits. Now you see what happened was like this. As the crime rate went down, more and more crimes were solved and prosecuted, and a virtuous ccle developed.

When finally around 1998, needle exchange really got started progress nevertheless continued.

Crime is either going up, or goimng down. At any given time there is trend making it go up (the criminal’s friends and acquaintances) and a trend making it go down (law enforcement pressure. There can also be revival movements and the like.)

The friendsa and associates of one person are different from another person. This is called differential association, often used actually to explain less serious things than street crime. You can also think of it in terms of an epidemic, one criminal infecting another with the crime virus.

The crime rate is at the level where those two trends are in equilibrium. The things is to make the equilibrium level as low as possible and t keep on lowering it.

In different neighborhoods there are actually different law enforcemnt pressures. Where the crime rate is higher, a person can get away with more for longer.

While most people do not commit crimes because of their moral upbringing, and secondarily, because of peer pressure, in the absence of law enforcement and courts everything will eventually collapse and people will swallow each other up alive.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/13/2013 @ 10:54 am

127. Comment by Dana (6178d5) — 9/13/2013 @

To this day, I don’t think Clinton believes he did anything wrong.

No, Clinton believes denial and dishonesty is the best policy.

He’s never admitted anything specific. That way people won’t bring it up, and will treat him with more respect.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/13/2013 @ 10:57 am

122. Comment by Dustin (303dca) — 9/13/2013 @ 2:37 am

I think NYC’s drop in crime is closely related to a major change in law enforcement. You see, while crime went down, ARRESTS WENT UP. They simply caught a lot more of the bad guys, and put them away.

And just why did that happen? Why did that suddenly happen after nearly 30 years? Do you think it was just hiring a few more policemen?

That had happened before too, in places. That’s why it is such a mystery to some people. Nothing that has peoposed explains it. Not even< I think, more abortions after 1973 (and thus fewer beginning criminals in the late 1980s)

Why so much more of a drop in New York City?

Crime started to go up in the late 1950s, slowly (when they passed juvenile delinquency laws that lowered punishment) and really went up in the 1960s, especially after a couple of supreme Court decisions, more or less stabilizing at a high level around 1973, creeping up even more during the crack epidemic.

How were the police suddenly able to arrest a larger percentage of criminals and why did this happen first, and most, in New York City?

The answer is 3 letters: H I V.

I also think NYC shows much more recent fluctuations (including nice drops) in crime rates today that obviously are not caused by your impossible to disagree with wild assumption.

Yes of course. That’s because Police Commisioner Ray Kelly and others watch it and pursue crime wheer it’s going up, and try to find precursors to it too.

But AIDS gave the whole thing a kick start. The underlying principle, of course, has nothing to do with AIDS.

And there a lot, not just a few needle sharing bums who got sick.

No disrespect intended… I know this is just how you think, but the explanation of most things is much, much simpler than you tend to think it is. They catch more bad guys and lock them up longer, and guess what… there’s less actual crime happening because the bad guys are in jail or prison. That works.

Right. But WHY did that happen, starting around the year 1990. Why did they begin to catch and deal with a higher and higher percentage of bad guys?

Do you know that the prison population in New York State is now finally going down? We’ve turned the corner, if some politivians don’t mess it up. We’ve turned the corner but it still far too high.

There are some places where crime is still high, and I don’t beelive that it can’t go lower.

Sammy Finkelman (f1bb90) — 9/13/2013 @ 11:31 am

And just why did that happen?

Why did arrests go up? Is it really impossible to believe it wasn’t instigated by AIDS?

I think it was Rudy Giuliani and a large number of associates who were fed up with business as usual in NYC law enforcement.

There are some places where crime is still high, and I don’t beelive that it can’t go lower.

Of course.

Dustin (891aab) — 9/13/2013 @ 11:46 am

New York Post article about what Robert F. Kennedy Jr had to say about Al Sharpton, Jessse jackson and Andrew Cuomo in 2001.http://nypost.com/2013/09/09/diary-bombshell-rfks-secret-slams-against-al-sharpton-jesse-jackson-and-gov-cuomo/

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/13/2013 @ 12:36 pm

SF: Why did arrests go up? Is it really impossible to believe it wasn’t instigated by AIDS?

I think it was Rudy Giuliani and a large number of associates who were fed up with business as usual in NYC law enforcement.

The crime rate started dropping in 1990, when David Dinkins was mayor, although this became clear only in retrospect.

David Dinkins did add more police.

Closed cases went up because there was less crime to deal with.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 9/13/2013 @ 12:38 pm

@ Sammy Finkelman,

No, Clinton believes denial and dishonesty is the best policy.

I disagree when discussing Clinton’s sexual misconduct. I don’t think he has a functioning moral compass in that particular area of his life, thus he doesn’t believe he has done anything wrong, and further, is frankly offended that members of the citizenry have that audacity to have been offended at his misbehavior.

To your larger point, I agree that he functions in general at a high level of denial and dishonesty. But he is keenly aware of it.

Dana (6178d5) — 9/13/2013 @ 12:45 pm

No, wait, it was lower consumption of dairy products.

I didn’t hear that one.

It was the unleaded gas theory of my youth. Some geniuses saw a direct correlation between increased consumption of dairy products, principally milk and ice cream, and increase in sex crimes … wait for it … in the summer. Ergo, dairy products made people criminally horny.

nk (875f57) — 9/13/2013 @ 1:35 pm

but in the US the majority of Americans who support and promote homosexuality, porn, and sex outside marriage are not even remotely Marxist – they are staunch, obnoxious capitalists, usually younger (but also their parents), snotty materialistic types

I agree that people can be very compartmentalized in both their politics and attitudes. That’s a major reason why I’m less surprised to have learned rather recently that some of the biggest, most admired historic figures of the left/Democrat Party, particularly Franklin D Roosevelt, were surprisingly racist and bigoted behind closed doors, in their private reactions and opinions.

BTW, a forumer in this thread mentioned how raising the topic of “GLBT” can become “creepy” and “obsessive.” Well, in the context of today’s culture, when I have to run across BS like the following in the sports section of a major newspaper (again, the sports section, not the political or op-ed section, not the arts section, etc), our society, in effect, is becoming creepy and obsessive:

latimes.com, September 13: Here’s a new one for those forward-thinking Dodgers: They announced Friday they will host an LGBT night on Sept. 27.

The team that broke baseball’s color barrier, that brought in the Hispanic community with Fernando Valenzuela and the Japanese community with Hideo Nomo, is now reaching out to the LGBT community.

“We welcome all fans to Dodger Stadium throughout each season,” said Dodger Executive Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer Lon Rosen in statement. “We are especially proud to welcome and recognize the LGBT community of Los Angeles, an integral part of the city and of the Dodgers community.”

Included in LGBT Night Out at Dodger Stadium is a celebrity first pitch, the national anthem performed by a special guest with the Gay Men’s Chorus of Los Angeles.

The Dodgers said it was the first of an annual event.

^ A fitting end to this thread, which (like the politician it’s all about) has generally runs its course.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/14/2013 @ 8:58 am

They’re businessmen, Mark. They’d advertise a “Three-eyed extraterrestrial night” at the old ballpark if they thought it would help fill the stands with paying customers.

elissa (bf3931) — 9/14/2013 @ 9:06 am

Gays improve a neighborhood. You don’t take your life into your hands going to Wrigley the way you do with *some other* sports stadiums.

nk (875f57) — 9/14/2013 @ 9:14 am

Also, Mark, one of the key owners of the hapless Chicago Cubs is a lesbian. But they were hapless and hopeless long before she came along!

elissa (9a9efc) — 9/14/2013 @ 9:31 am

My late father always maintained that teh gay folk proved to be the best tenants a landlord could ask for… they always helped maintain the property (and treated the property of others with respect) and paid their rent on time. Anyone who has ever been a landlord and had to suffer with tenants who did anything but the above (especially in California, due to our ridiculous laws) knows how valuable and appreciated that is.

Colonel Haiku (9a5083) — 9/14/2013 @ 9:50 am

Comment by elissa (9a9efc) — 9/14/2013 @ 9:31 am

TIL.

nk (875f57) — 9/14/2013 @ 9:52 am

As for me, I think the lifestyle is abby normal, but I say live and let live.

Colonel Haiku (9a5083) — 9/14/2013 @ 9:52 am

his dream in tatters
Weiner’s gone to teh Hamptons
just to lick his… wounds?

Colonel Haiku (9a5083) — 9/14/2013 @ 9:58 am

“Included in LGBT Night Out at Dodger Stadium is a celebrity first pitch, the national anthem performed by a special guest with the Gay Men’s Chorus of Los Angeles.”

Mark – I’ll bet the Dodgers also offer discounted foot long jumbo franks that night.

Perhaps you can find a “freedom from gays” society to join like that “freedom from religion” group that is suppressing religious freedoms around the country if you are so afraid of the gay menace.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:01 am

Mark – Do you like gladiator movies?

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:05 am

and Glenn Burke was a gay Dodger!

Colonel Haiku (9a5083) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:07 am

some folks thought that Steve Garvey was, too, but my sources say that’s not true.

Colonel Haiku (9a5083) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:08 am

“some folks thought that Steve Garvey was, too, but my sources say that’s not true.”

Colonel – I think Garvey was one of the bisexual homersexual people Mark likes talking about.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:14 am

Mark – I’ll bet the Dodgers also offer discounted foot long jumbo franks that night.

daleyrocks, that double entendre combined with at least your apparent disquiet about anyone expressing wariness towards (much less staunch disapproval of) a “GLBT night” at Dodgers Stadium is why our society is becoming increasingly Nidal-Hasan-ized. IOW, if a PC attitude is becoming pervasive and fashionable among non-liberals (I won’t even say among conservatives, but nonetheless within, for example, the US military), then why should anyone be surprised how bad things are becoming throughout society in general?

We’ve all become increasingly desensitized (including myself) — far more shock-proof — and there’s no turning back. “Creepy” is the hip new trend.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:15 am

daley… Garvey and teh Penguin, Ron Cey…

Colonel Haiku (9a5083) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:17 am

Hi daleyrocks. I was hoping you’d show up to acknowledge your creepy and obsessive buddy as he springs into action once again.

elissa (9a9efc) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:17 am

“daleyrocks, that double entendre combined with at least your apparent disquiet about anyone expressing wariness towards (much less staunch disapproval of) a “GLBT night” at Dodgers Stadium is why our society is becoming increasingly Nidal-Hasan-ized.”

Mark – It’s.Like.U.Can.Read.My.Mind!!!!!

EEEEERRRIE!!!!!!

The Westboro Baptist Church is always looking for new members. Give them a shout. They would love talking about your theories and obsessions. I am also told they hold midnight naked circle jerks which you might enjoy.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:26 am

They’re businessmen, Mark.

Elissa, but if they want their sports franchise also associated with a family-friendly, youth-oriented setting, I’d think that catering to a small, generally very liberal subset wouldn’t be high on their agenda. However, your comment does remind me of the point raised by Stalin — or the human nature described by Allessandra above — about capitalists being the ones who’d sell the rope with which they’d be strung up with and hung.

Gays improve a neighborhood.

The power of demographics can easily trump other things, including politics, which is another reason why anyone of us can fall for various forms of political correctness (even when it’s running amok). That’s why I say there is plenty of squish (and ironies) in the nooks and crannies of the brains of most humans.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:26 am

elissa – Wait, my buddy?

Mr. FDR cheats, homos are really bisexual, liberals are less generous to charity than conservatives, Nidal-Hassan-ized (would have been easier to say multi-culti political correctness)?

That dood?

I waiting for him to talk about the Bell Curve and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:30 am

Mark – Do you go to steam baths?

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:31 am

If the fundamentalists are correct and gays do go to Hell, I know that when I get there I won’t find fiery pits and the smell of brimstone, but instead gas streelights, bistros, and the smell of patchouli from antiques shops, and the demons with the whips and chains will work with a “safe word”.

nk (875f57) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:32 am

Mark – Do you like gladiator movies?

The Westboro Baptist Church is always looking for new members.

Sheesh, daleyrocks. Did I push one of your buttons? You sure are responding like someone who’s taking this debate way too personally.

BTW, since so much of the GLBT crowd is very liberal or leftwing — politically or socially (or both) — the line between one (their behavior) and the other (their ideology) is sometimes a very fine one.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:34 am

I waiting for him to talk about the Bell Curve and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

daleyrocks, if you (and others) ever wonder what is behind the emotions that often fuel leftist cant and nonsense (often derided by certain forumers — but generally not by me — as “trolling”), you’re getting a good hint of that in this thread.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:39 am

On the bright side, they did turn down Weiner, on the negative side, they voted for DeBlasio, so their wisdom is limited to be charitable.

narciso (3fec35) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:42 am

Mark – Have you ever seen a grown man naked?

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:46 am

“You sure are responding like someone who’s taking this debate way too personally.”

Mark – Your #149 makes that clear, huckleberry.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2013 @ 10:49 am

Mark – Your #149 makes that clear, huckleberry.

But, daleyrocks, you do admit that the point made in that post is valid. But your sarcasm suggests otherwise. The reason for that is one I’ll sidestep, since I respect your politics in general. But it does help me understand why I increasingly believe I’m not being overly cynical about where our society/culture is likely headed.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/14/2013 @ 11:01 am

Mark – I’m trying to understand what bothers you so much about gay people since you never seem to explain. Is it having them in your neighborhood, working with them, seeing them? Is it a religious thing?

Instead you make broad brush statements about trends in society that have been going on for 40 years that are not the responsibility of gays. You criticize a sports franchise for trying to maximize profits by reaching out to a segment of the population, something they do virtually every home game of the season.

Try to verbalize your objections to gays. Dig deep.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2013 @ 11:16 am

Mark – Thought experiment to help you: If gays were trended conservative on the political front would you still hate them?

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/14/2013 @ 11:19 am

the point raised by Stalin — or the human nature described by Allessandra above — about capitalists being the ones who’d sell the rope with which they’d be strung up with and hung.

History, centuries prior to Stalin and now when he’s moldering in whatever he’s moldering in, proves him wrong. The merchant class is the ascendant class and will continue to be. Along with it knowledge, science, the arts, and even freedom believe it or not, will also flourish. Societies which do not primarily engage in trade stagnate and die, either of infertility or by violence from invasion or revolution. Basically, Stalin sucked at everything except killing people so I don’t recommend quoting him.

nk (875f57) — 9/14/2013 @ 11:19 am

On a continuum, Mark, is it possible that you see no difference between a self -confessed jihadist Muslim in the U. S. Army and a group of American gay people peacefully enjoying an evening at a baseball park? When you include both in the same sentence as you did above it does cause people to believe that you do not see a difference.

elissa (bf3931) — 9/14/2013 @ 12:18 pm

Mark – I’m trying to understand what bothers you so much about gay people since you never seem to explain.

daleyrocks, I don’t understand how you can say that when you also previously mentioned that I raise the topic of “GLBT” far too frequently or inappropriately in various threads. IOW, if you’ve seen the many posts where I explain my opinion on this matter — and the many copy-pastes that often go with those postings — I don’t know why you have to ask for an explanation of what influences my POV. But, yes, the pervasive leftism of the GLBT community is one factor, and the inherently sexualized nature of GLBT (particularly involving males) is another factor. Simply put, glomming even more sexuality this, sexuality that, into the middle of the public sphere (eg, at public schools or similar settings) is sort of like giving a bratty kid a bigger allowance and even more lax standards.

On a continuum, Mark, is it possible that you see no difference between a self -confessed jihadist Muslim in the U. S. Army

Elissa, the point I’ve been trying to make is how absurd and extreme political correctness has gotten in this day and age. And, no, a murderous, Islamic-supporting enlistee is not identical to a GLBT person in the military, certainly one who’s going about his business quietly and without fuss. But when ministers in the US military (and NOT someone working in the midst of a neighborhood in San Francisco, or in a typical au-courant, hip Episcopalian church) are increasingly forbidden from merely saying that a marriage between a man and woman is ideal and preferred, we’re entering — and using the adjective cited by daleyrocks — creepy waters.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/14/2013 @ 1:49 pm

daleyrocks and Elissa, the wonderful filter has just screened out my response (don’t know why since it was a generally innocuous and G-rated one), so if a response from me to your questions is expected, maybe it will eventually show up.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/14/2013 @ 1:52 pm

That’s OK, Mark. I’ll admit I was more hoping for you to do some honest self reflection on the subject than I was either expecting or needing you to post a public response.

elissa (bf3931) — 9/14/2013 @ 2:07 pm

Elissa, you must be skipping over most of my postings going back months and months, or certainly the ones related to the subject of GLBT or SSM, because if you haven’t, I don’t know why you’d be inferring — in so many words — that my commenting has been a bit less than honest or forthright.

I hope I’m not detecting in your and daleyrock’s reactions to this subject a bit of the responses evident in those people who, when dealing with critics of Obama, imply that such critics therefore have to be racist.

The filters of Patterico.com’s message board sometimes work mysteriously or in overdrive, and I’m too lazy to try to recreate my response from yesterday. However — and I’ve said this repeatedly in the past (so I don’t know why daleyrocks even asked about it) — but the politics of the GLBT crowd (ie, most of them being of the left) and the personal behavior they like to identify themselves with are so closely aligned, that it’s hard to know where one begins and one leaves off. I think the melding of the two is best exemplified by this article currently linked at the drudgereport.com:

breitbart.com: Almost everything you think you know about the Matthew Shepard narrative is false.

…Shepard became a secular saint, and his killing became a kind of gay Passion Play where he suffered and died for the cause of homosexuality against the growing homophobia and hatred of gay America.

Indeed, a Mathew Shepard industry grew rapidly with plays and foundations along with state and even national hate crimes legislation named for him. Rock stars wrote songs about him, including Elton John and Melissa Etheridge. Lady Gaga performed John Lennon’s “Imagine” and changed the lyrics to include Shepard.

Thanks to a new book by an award winning gay journalist we now know that much of this narrative turns out to be false, little more than gay hagiography. According to The Advocate, one of the premier gay publications in the country, [investigative journalist Stephen] Jiminez “amassed enough anecdotal evidence to build a persuasive case that Shepard’s sexuality was, if not incidental, certain less central than popular consensus had lead us to believe.”

But what really happened to Matthew Shepard?

He was beaten, tortured, and killed by one or both of the men now serving life sentences. But it turns out, according to Jiminez, that Shepard was a meth dealer himself and he was friends and sex partners with the man who led in his killing. Indeed, his killer may have killed him because Shepard allegedly came into possession of a large amount of methamphetamine and refused to give it up.

The book also shows that Shepard’s killer was on a five-day meth binge at the time of the killing.

Mark (58ea35) — 9/15/2013 @ 9:37 am

==Elissa, you must be skipping over most of my postings going back months and months==

Oh Mark, if only.

elissa (bf3931) — 9/15/2013 @ 12:55 pm

Mark – You approach politics from a very progressive identity politics angle, which is very unusual on a more conservative forum. Progressives divide the population up into subgroups by characteristic, race, gender, sexual orientation and simplistically believe that the votes of all members of certain subgroups belong to them. Your attempt to find or characteristics, drug use, religion, sexual orientation, is the same, and essentially the same bigotry practiced by the tolerant left.

If you paused to think about your comments over time perhaps you could see that and understand better the differences between the left and the right.

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/15/2013 @ 1:27 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/nyregion/thompson-to-concede-to-de-blasio-in-mayoral-primary.html?ref=nyregion

What hapepneed to every vote being counted?

They haven’t even gotten to the absentee (and I think affidavit( ballots yet.

True, even if there is arunoff, Thompson was somewaht unlikely to win it.

This is the 3rd time there almost was a runoff in a mayoral race because the leader got just almost exactly 40% of the orimary vite: 1997, 2005 and now 2013.

Legally, by the way, Thompson can’t stop a runoff. He cannot withdraw. The only way to do that is not to have every vote counted and leave de Blasio over 40%..

Sammy Finkelman (e0f80a) — 9/16/2013 @ 8:39 am

http://www.popcenter.org/library/crimeprevention/volume_04/10-Rossmo.pdf

Sammy Finkelman (e0f80a) — 9/16/2013 @ 11:57 am

9/11/2013

Weiner = Giant Loser (Spitzer Too)

174 Responses to “Weiner = Giant Loser (Spitzer Too)”

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