As usual, what might seek like mildly good news falls apart on closer inspection. Turns out something like 300,000 to 500,000 more people dropped out of the labor market entirely last month, and don’t get counted in the numbers.
Who’s going to expand their business if it means they have to deal with ObamaCare?
Increasingly, we’re a country that has given up.
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This is what fundamental transformation looks like.
AZ Bob (c99389) — 9/6/2013 @ 7:35 amHinderacker does an honest overview of our transformed situation and asks, “who are these people?”
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/09/who-
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/6/2013 @ 7:47 amare-the-47-percent.php
Obama is utterly discrediting Democrat policies but does not seem to realize it.
SPQR (768505) — 9/6/2013 @ 7:51 amNo blood for Obama’s ego.
Jack (a1d158) — 9/6/2013 @ 7:59 amClearly, Obama’s domestic plan is working.
Jack (a1d158) — 9/6/2013 @ 7:59 amThe Finkster should be by any minute declaring that there’s a pony among the truckload of horse manure!
Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 (f7d5ba) — 9/6/2013 @ 8:01 amover the month of August an average of 47% of voters–there’s that number again!–said they approve of Obama’s job performance.
The idiocy of liberal instincts — which triggers things like the following, per below, or political correctness run amok, etc, and that are embedded in most humans — means we should all look in the mirror when trying to figure out who bears a lot of responsibility for the way things are.
Mark (58ea35) — 9/6/2013 @ 8:02 amFunny how we have that malaise thing again.
With Carter though it was incompetence. With O, it’s intentional.
Patricia (be0117) — 9/6/2013 @ 8:19 amThe only good thing to come out of this is the GOP is also self-destructing. Tell me why I would vote for a loyal Republican centrist?
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 8:35 amno peace and also no prosperity
OBAMA!
happyfeet (8ce051) — 9/6/2013 @ 8:44 amI don’t know why so many people still support Obama but media influence, our culture, peer pressure, self-interest and even Obama’s pleasant appearance could be factors. I do think his support is shrinking and my guess is the last remaining bitter clingers are committed Democrats, blacks, and the young.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 8:47 amBurned out and too tired to go Galt.
htom (412a17) — 9/6/2013 @ 8:47 amDRJ — they think he’s going to bring them the winning lottery tickets.
htom (412a17) — 9/6/2013 @ 8:48 am“The only good thing to come out of this is the GOP is also self-destructing. Tell me why I would vote for a loyal Republican centrist?”
gary – Just amend the constitution and vote for Obama again for a third time, whiner.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/6/2013 @ 8:59 amRemember, DRJ, the job is just too big. Plus racism. They will never, ever give him up.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:00 amUNEXPECTEDLY!
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:25 amIncreasingly, we’re a country that has given up.
More to the point, business abided for the first 4 years, but after the re-election they had to make the hard decisions they had put off. Since there will be no growth for the next 4 years, they are doing what they have to do to survive. Pretty predictable actually.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:33 amI am just grateful we have our priorities straight:
h/t Stacy McCain
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:36 am“The only good thing to come out of this is the GOP is also self-destructing. Tell me why I would vote for a loyal Republican centrist?”
Be4cause this county has a two-party system that you cannot wish your way past. Do you really think there was no difference between Romney and Obama, or that Romney was a “centrist”?
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:36 amIn 2016, the “are you better off” line will be telling.
Didn’t work in 2012 because Obama’s stooge Bernanke pumped trillions of freshly-printed dollars into the economy in the quarter before the election, giving the appearance of recovery.
Our withdrawal from that mainlining started in January and continues.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:42 amQuite a mistake made in November 2012. Elections have consequences.
Colonel Haiku (404b97) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:44 am“Be4cause this county has a two-party system that you cannot wish your way past.”
Kevin – gary isn’t trying to wish his way past the system, he’s trying to whine his way past it. He’s been doing it for years.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:46 amThe body of the US is infected with parasites. Symptoms include weakness of the limbs, lethargy, vomiting, headaches, etc.
Either the parasites must be addressed, or the body will die.
BfC (a1cf00) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:50 amIf the GOP could ever be replaced with a conservative political party, its demise would mean we have hope of turning this mess around before the times get truly hard.
Unfortunately, the GOP and Democrats are a reflection of this country. The core problem is there is so little wisdom and so little selflessness. Everyone is concerned about their piece of the treasury-on-credit.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:54 amObama will refocus his laser-like attention on jobs (it’ll be what, his 20th or 21st time doing so?) just as soon as he’s done playing with some laser-guided bombs.
Icy (f51bd3) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:57 amIcy, it’s clear that Obama’s concern about jobs is exclusively related to making Obama look good. that sounds trite. But that everything is politics to Obama is why we’re going to go to war in a way that seemingly benefits Al Qaida simply to save Obama some face.
The world can be destabilized, but Obama cannot look bad.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/6/2013 @ 10:09 am“If the GOP could ever be replaced with a conservative political party, its demise would mean we have hope of turning this mess around before the times get truly hard.”
Dustin – Agreed. But in the interim I can make things more pleasant for everybody by complaining about the GOP everyday, right?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/6/2013 @ 10:14 amFunny and true. I enjoyed that, Icy #25.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 10:28 amComment by Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:33 am
Just another Capital Strike, where rationality overcomes emotion.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 9/6/2013 @ 10:31 amThe Recession Within the Recession (1937-38 redux) is in the starting-blocks, and will plunge forward (on its face) when the gun goes off marking the full-blown train-wreck of O-Care implementation.
Comment by Icy (f51bd3) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:57 am
Why are the bombs the only “smart” things in this administration?
askeptic (b8ab92) — 9/6/2013 @ 10:34 amI mean, did you actually listen to our UN Ambassador?
DRJ, the sad thing is that I wasn’t even trying to be funny this time. But, you know what they say: sometimes you have to laugh to keep from hanging yourself . . .
Icy (f51bd3) — 9/6/2013 @ 10:38 amaskeptic, I can’t listen to (or watch) Samantha Power. She’s like Caroline Kennedy after being beaten with an ugly stick . . . to the point of brain damage.
I do like how she conducts international relations through the power of the tweet, however. Very ‘modern-day’.
Icy (f51bd3) — 9/6/2013 @ 10:45 amIt isn’t productive or pleasant, I agree. It seems a lot of us fall into commenting habits that get extremely tiresome. Those of us who have gotten fed up with current political parties are probably particularly annoying to those who still hold out hope. I know that because in 2010 and 2011 I was pretty sure the GOP was doing to turn around and fix this mess, and those who did nothing but gripe about the GOP seemed like part of the problem.
I admire those who can laugh at this situation more consistently, and I’m sure that’s a healthier approach because griping is not going to fix it.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/6/2013 @ 10:46 am#18… daley… Given 75% of lesbians are fat and over 50% of heterosexual men are fat, it’s readily apparent what’s at fault… *vulvas !
*h/t elissa
Colonel Haiku (358fb1) — 9/6/2013 @ 10:57 amColonel – Obviously not for consumption.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/6/2013 @ 10:59 amExtraordinary amount of damage – permanent damage – being done to the US economy by Democrat policies.
But the media just keep covering for Obama.
SPQR (768505) — 9/6/2013 @ 11:07 am14, 19. Aww, aren’t daley and kev just so precious?
They’re like an imaginary Washington Generals fan who when MeadowLark puts on the hat and stands in the post jumps up and yells:
“Hey, look out guys!”
Maroons.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 11:35 amgary – Seek help.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/6/2013 @ 11:42 am#36… Yes, a lack of rational thought, common sense and a death wish mixed with a poisonous elixer.
Colonel Haiku (017a27) — 9/6/2013 @ 11:48 amgary,
I spent my time in 3rd partyland — I even ran for office as a Libertarian in ’94. It just doesn’t work. Yes, I wish we have proportional balloting or instant-runoff or some other system where a 3rd party can make it. But we don’t. You can only push or pull on one of the majors if you want to have any real effect.
Such as the TEA Party, or the Perot movement of ’92 (and not that Perot had a MAJOR effect, both in getting a balanced budget and in picking Clinton over Bush).
But to all those “conservatives” who stayed home because Romney wasn’t pure enough: everything that happens in OBama’s second term is your fault.
Don’t get me started.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/6/2013 @ 12:25 pmDoh!
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-06/we-have-officially-jumped-shark-al-arabiya-reports-another-gas-attack-syrian-regime
My that chinless dictator is brazen! Almost like JEF.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 12:26 pm*notE that Perot had a major effect
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/6/2013 @ 12:26 pmAnd the Dow shakes it off for another winning day!
Kansas (7b4374) — 9/6/2013 @ 12:29 pm40. A guy from IL and one from CA who haven’t voted for an elected Congress Critter in a decade are not a reservoir of nation-changing experience.
‘Lesser of two evils’ as a plausible plan is dead, dying white mens.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 12:33 pm18. 34. Better you should look at those unnecessary studies as an important JOBs program you racist, sexist, and gay bashing idiots. A different application of cash for clunkers.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/6/2013 @ 12:41 pmgary, that position may have given us Obama. I reject it.
SPQR (768505) — 9/6/2013 @ 1:00 pmi, for one, welcome the booming success that has been Recovery Summer 2013 and look forward with hope to the change that Recovery Summer 2014 is guaranteed to bring us.
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/6/2013 @ 1:12 pmIf you want to stay thin and trim, cook at home.
Don’t eat out.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/6/2013 @ 1:14 pmyou’ve never had a meal at my house Steve… 😎
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/6/2013 @ 1:15 pmhow long before we do the same thing here?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-06/poland-confiscates-half-private-pension-funds-cut-sovereign-debt-load
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/6/2013 @ 1:15 pmThe federal government has spent $2.2 million studying why three quarters of lesbians are obese despite sequestration-mandated budget cuts that critics warned could “delay progress in medical breakthroughs.”
I suppose it’s time for the inappropriate comment of the day: In college I dated a woman who had (by most everyone’s estimation) a fantastic body. Supple, voluptuous, pert, all those adjectives that one uses when describing the female figure. I probably saw her last in person about 10 years ago when we were both in our mid-30s, and she still had an impressive figure. Maybe six or seven years ago she “became” a lesbian and is now married to another woman. And, yes, she has put on a lot of weight and from what I have seen in pictures is probably borderline obese. Now I know that most of us struggle with our weight as we get older, but it is odd that her struggles seem to coincide with her new sexual orientation.
JVW (23867e) — 9/6/2013 @ 1:23 pmThis is why I’m of the opinion our troubles don’t end when Obama leaves office. He’s the symptom, not entirely the cause.
He personally has no credibility. But as a country, the fact that someone like him is even electable means we as a nation have no credibility.
Had he been a one-hit wonder we could have recovered. But this character won reelection after showing G_d and everbody who he was. And still he remains popular.
Face it. Miley Cyrus was just giving us what we want.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/6/2013 @ 1:31 pmFace it. Miley Cyrus was just giving
usmuch of the American public whatwethey want.Please, don’t include me.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/6/2013 @ 1:41 pmGiven up? No, they are simply naturally acting out rational responses to the political and economic stimuli of the Obama regime. And unless someone is cooking up an armed revolt, the transition back to a federal government that adheres to the Constitution and is fiscally responsible is by no means certain.
This nation may have finally hit the slippery slope and is now gaining momentum downhill. All it will take to lock in the direction and speed are say 10-20MM new Democrat voters, and a few percentage points more of households that pay no federal income tax.
in_awe (7c859a) — 9/6/2013 @ 1:43 pmI agree, Steve57. We are culturally and morally adrift and that’s worse than being politically adrift, because most of the public likes it that way.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 1:48 pmWhat did you do “6 or 7 years ago” to push her to teh other team, JVW?
Colonel Haiku (358fb1) — 9/6/2013 @ 1:52 pmgg- If I may interject, I think there may be at least one reason you’re getting some guff about the “let her burn” and the “let’s destroy the Republican party” sentiments. And it relates to the whole day after tomorrow, or what next? thingy.
There’s an old saw that has been paraphrased and has been going around businesses and investors for a long time. It goes like this:
Great idea
+
?????
=
Profits!!!!
And then everybody in the room laughs and laughs because obviously, even a stellar and novel idea combined with only wishful thinking doesn’t automatically insure profits and riches.
I think it’s kind of the same with trying to project good tidings if, darn it, certain people who grate, or an entire organization, or some major annoyances would just miraculously disappear. But unless there’s an actual thought-out plan for a new institution or a new replacement source of leadership, a society or nation can just descend into chaos or create a worse, even more intractable situation than existed before.
The teenager who stabs and kills his father who’s asleep in the Barcalounger after the kid was told he can’t entertain his girlfriend in his room or smoke weed in the house or get a tattoo, is ridding himself of a major annoyance. The teen can envision himself now blissfully living alone in the house for years and years with no problems–no one yelling at him or telling him what do do. But by the next day he’s probably already realized that he’s not carefully thought through some things.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/6/2013 @ 2:12 pmWhat did you do “6 or 7 years ago” to push her to teh other team, JVW?
Ha! Our romance ended 20 years ago, so anything that I might have done would have to have had a delayed effect. Not that I doubt that it might be my fault in some way or other.
JVW (23867e) — 9/6/2013 @ 2:12 pm“‘Lesser of two evils’ as a plausible plan is dead, dying white mens.”
gary – Morose in Minnesota surrounded by socialists and barking at the moon claiming victimhood is not exactly a recipe for success. At least you have consistency going for you. Every day is impending doom.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/6/2013 @ 2:14 pm“Don’t eat out.”
Steve57 – Or maybe there should be a calorie warning or something so people can make informed choices, but nobody tells me nothing.
Probably just more propaganda from teh patriarchy to encourage more BJ’s.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/6/2013 @ 2:17 pmI’ve been negative here but that doesn’t mean I’ve given up. There’s a cyclical nature to politics and culture that may benefit conservatives, although frankly I doubt it will help the blue states much. Most of them seem too far gone.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 2:29 pmIn other words, I can see why gary is down in the dumps.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 2:30 pm46, 57. I’ve been represented by either Sensenbrenner or Bachmann for easily 90% of my adult lifetime.
I have nothing for which to apologize, losers.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 2:33 pmI clearly don’t have sufficient command of the language to persuade anyone. I was talking to a friend’s sister the other day, an Obama die hard, and she said she voted for Obama because the President should be “better” than her.
I gathered that since somehow she could never get into Harvard that made Obama better than her. I’m not making this up, although I may not be conveying it accurately because in all honesty I never could wrap my mind around it.
I’d bet anything Obama couldn’t weld to save his life no matter how many hours you spent trying to teach him. This woman and her husband built a business cleaning silos, and she’s convinced Obama is “better” than her.
You can win elections with people like this. That’s the amazing and sad fact.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/6/2013 @ 2:41 pmComment by elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/6/2013 @ 2:12 pm
Great comment, elissa. If I thought the GOP could be destroyed today and rebuilt in time to be competitive in 2016, I would be all for it. But the stakes in that election are going to be way too high for us to hand the Democrats any advantages.
The interesting thing about the GOP is that as much as voters supposedly dislike the party, every time the Democrats get unchecked power (LBJ 1964, Carter 1976, Clinton 1992, Obama 2008) the voters either elect a Republican President or a Republican House at their next opportunity.
JVW (23867e) — 9/6/2013 @ 2:42 pmDRJ–I think pretty much anyone on the right is down in the dumps after the last 5 years. How can we not be? I know I am and there is every reason that Gary should be too. I hope I didn’t come across otherwise.
What I was trying to address and ask people to look at is the response to it. I wasn’t disputing the fact or existence of it. But to me those are different considerations.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/6/2013 @ 2:46 pmgary – Moose roast is very tasty.
mg (31009b) — 9/6/2013 @ 2:53 pm“I have nothing for which to apologize, losers.”
gary – Fascinating logic.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/6/2013 @ 2:59 pmnot to worry: the RNC will do everything it can to throw both 2014 & 2016, to include picking yet another squish for the Presidential candidate, because it’s their turn and we have to reach across the aisle…
they’d rather be in charge of a minority party and keep their personal perks than win and lose their personal access to the levers of power.
redc1c4 (abd49e) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:04 pmMy point is we’ve tried the route to compromise, focusing on ‘electability’.
The opposition to Authoritarianism has only lost ground.
We are past the tipping point, there is no returning Amerikkka to the nation she was. It is time to move if your worldview is incompatible in your political environs.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:06 pmTwenty-five percent of the eligible population elected the antichrist.
Blaming the loss on people you had no interest in, is rather small.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:13 pmThey are different but it’s hard to feel positive about the response when the problems are so big.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:17 pmMy last comment was in response to elissa’s #66.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:18 pm67. At Little Falls last weekend, we got to see three bobcats and two Siberian tigers being trained from 10-20 feet.
Hard to imagine seeing that in the Big Blue cities.
MN has a third party, the Independence, so you have three parties vying to be indistinguishable.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:24 pmnot to worry: the RNC will do everything it can to throw both 2014 & 2016, to include picking yet another squish for the Presidential candidate, because it’s their turn and we have to reach across the aisle…
I don’t know, redc1c4, that has become a common refrain among conservatives but I don’t think it holds water. The reality is that both McCain and Romney won Republican primaries across the nation. I like to consider myself a nasty right-winger, and I confess that I voted for both guys in the California primary. I don’t think that the RNC really picks our candidates any more than the Tea Party does. Candidates win because they come across as the most appealing to the voters.
JVW (23867e) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:26 pm75. With a modest unspoken caveat, within the rules of their making.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:33 pmany proof that the rnc “picks” candidates?
EPWJ (bdd0a6) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:37 pm==it’s hard to feel positive about the response==
I think we’re talking past each other DRJ. Unless you’ve given up which you say you haven’t, then the “response” I am talking about and which it appears JVW seconded, is having a realistic physical action plan of some sort in place. Not a vague “feeling”.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:40 pmThe RNC has no influence over primary voters?
Icy (f51bd3) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:40 pmThe RNC does its best to help the preferred nominees raise funds, and that helps them become the nominees.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:41 pm==having a realistic physical action plan of some sort in place.==
Sorry. I should have added “and workable follow up plans” to end that sentence.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:44 pmNot that I doubt that it might be my fault in some way or other.
Comment by JVW
lol… you cur, you!
Colonel Haiku (575991) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:46 pmWell my action plan is if I don’t ‘like’ a candidate I will not vote for them.
For the RNC, one would think getting my vote for President might be more important than say someone in NY, IL or CA.
I would note, that even in Minnesotastan, Romany won only a couple counties and came in third over all.
If the GOP really feels it must remain fair to states it has no hope of winning, then their fate is sealed.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:47 pmI am distressed that nearly everything I cherish about this country is being shat upon or – at best – twisted beyond recognition by leftwing dolts who couldn’t be more destructive if they set their collective mind to it. My only hope is that the seeds of rejuvenation are planted within that destruction, cuz we are going down for the count, no doubt about it.
Colonel Haiku (575991) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:50 pmI guess I’m half-negative, half-positive, elissa.
I hope the Republicans will nominate a conservative as the GOP nominee in 2016. To me, that means someone like Ted Cruz but I could reluctantly accept Rand Paul or Bobby Jindal. Maybe Scott Walker. But I cannot accept Chris Christie, Marco Rubio, or Paul Ryan — even though I like them as people — because they strike me as newer versions of McCain and Romney.
However, I don’t expect the GOP will do what I want and, in fact, I expect it to nominate one of the people I find objectionable. I’m tired of voting for and financially supporting someone the blue states can stomach but I don’t really like. I’ve done it twice and that’s enough.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:51 pmMinnesota is the GD state that didn’t even have enough sense to reject Stuart Smalley… don’t expect miracles.
Colonel Haiku (575991) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:52 pmI may vote for them but I won’t give them a nickel … and I’m convinced my nickels matter to them more than my vote.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:52 pmI spent several months in Minnesota about 15 years ago. There were parts of Minnesota that were conservative then and I think they still are. It must be very hard to be a red island in a blue state. I think gary is right that it’s time for those people to get out.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 3:54 pm86. Or Jesse Ventura, or Keith Ellison, we can fetch more.
As I said, disaffected Republicans mostly, make up an Independence party tending to receive just shy of 10%.
In Frankenstein’s case, a significant fraction of the Democrats, including my former Rep. Betty McCollum, objected strongly even after he got the nomination.
And for their part, the GOP ran former Democrat, Norm Coleman for re-election.
The State is definitely Purple, not Blue, but so wealthy people are still socially liberal.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 4:01 pmOn a county basis, Minnesota certainly looks more red than blue. But it’s hard to see it as purple when Minnesotans elect Democrats in the national and state-wide races.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 4:06 pmThat’s unfair since Minnesota did elect Pawlenty and other Republicans at the state level in the early 2000s. Do you think that might happen again, gary?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 4:08 pm1984, is not a guide, you twit;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/president-obama-and-the-red-line-on-syrias-chemical-weapons/2013/09/06/8646f9ee-16db-11e3-961c-f22d3aaf19ab_blog.html
narciso (3fec35) — 9/6/2013 @ 4:34 pmComment by narciso (3fec35) — 9/6/2013 @ 4:34 pm
That would be unbelievable if it wasn’t the new norm.
They keep fighting over who gets the Duranty Prize.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/6/2013 @ 4:40 pmDuranty, they’ve gone Cpl Ogilvy,
narciso (3fec35) — 9/6/2013 @ 4:49 pmI think Obama just writes a number on a cocktail napkin and the Bureaucrats simply move around numbers in their spreadsheets to make it so.
Rodney King's Spirit (ae12ec) — 9/6/2013 @ 4:53 pmLived in MN, folks there are a little off. That explains how they vote which is to say not in their best interests.
Rodney King's Spirit (ae12ec) — 9/6/2013 @ 4:55 pmnarciso,
The first comment that currently shows up at your link is from our own redc1c4 at 6:55 CST. It’s a good one.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 5:12 pmMinneapolis/St.Paul and their suburbs typically vote 2/3 left, 1/3 right. They’re a little over half of Minnesota’s population. The second ring suburbs pretty much split 50-50; outstate is 1/3 left, 2/3 right. This is all very distorted by a very strong pro-life / anti-abortion group, many of whom are leftish except on that topic.
htom (412a17) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:03 pm91. The year Pawlenty was 8 and out, 2010, MN elected a MN Senate and for the first time since ’76, a House with GOP Majority. Unfortunately Gov. Prozac won by 7000 over a bomb-throwing lawyer who fired up the base, Tom Emmer, the favorite for Bachmann’s seat in ’14.
Not very familiar with him. A number of people are in the hunt to face the Gov., who has with a Dim Senate and House, raised our taxes %2+ Billion.
The guy I like is Dave Thomas who can communicate, but the Party will be behind Zoellers a typical meet the Dims in the middle as an opening.
Too early to say. Would have helped if the GOP hadn’t burned their bridges last biennium.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:11 pm98. The distorters are German Catholics.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:15 pmWait didn’t the clean togas like Carlson endorse this guy,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Horner
narciso (3fec35) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:17 pmDuranty, they’ve gone Cpl Ogilvy,
Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 9/6/2013 @ 4:49 pm
I have not a clue as to the reference.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:17 pmFeel free to edumacate me if you have time.
Ogilvy, was a minor character in 1984, who had been declared to have been a hero on the Nalabar front,
narciso (3fec35) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:21 pmMinitrue decided that it had actually been a debacle,
so not only was the battle excised from the record, but all signs of his existence, he became an unperson,
86. Still no real movement on who will run against the Fool. One lady State Sen., I kinda like, from outstate(not the Cities) has tossed her hat, but she hasn’t much name recognition, Julianne Ortmann.
Her competition to date, a McFadden, is the usual, says he supports the Senate Amnesty bill.
Minnesota is a caucus state, so us Indies sorta have to take what’s delivered.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:24 pm101. Yes, the last Independence Party candidate for Governor.
Why they bother to shoehorn someone in between the major’s positions is beyond me. I thought a third party’s raison de etre was to offer a choice.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:27 pm90. When two opposition parties wait for the ruling party to stake out a position and then try to climb into their pants, its not a real competition.
In MN its important to be nice, like Sen. Klobuchar, unlike Mr. Emmer. Other than that having some integrity and a freaking idea has not been tried much.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:32 pm99. On second thought it was definitely the first Republican Senate since ’76. Senior moment.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:34 pmCome to Texas, gary. There isn’t enough blood pressure medicine in the world to make that stress worth it.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:35 pmComment by narciso (3fec35) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:21 pm
Thank you.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:37 pmThey apparently did such a good job of erasing him that I don’t remember him at all…
108. Well, thanks, DRJ, but I like the North, perhaps ND?
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:40 pmArne Carlson is why ‘you can’t have nice things’ over there,
narciso (3fec35) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:42 pm111. Arne is a putz. But the GOP in MN produced him even if he’s a traitor.
They just don’t seem to get the idea that being firm and nice is possible.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:49 pmNorth Dakota is nice.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:52 pmI really was hoping the youthful WI GOP would revive the party from the inside. But it just is not happening.
Everyone seems to require learning lessons the hard way. Such is the state of mankind.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:53 pmI don’t think young people will be able to lead us out of this mess. They are too satisfied with the status quo. I think it will have to be the tea party folk and the red state governors, but that’s a big burden for them to bear.
Overall, I favor the Democrats in the short run and the libertarians in the long run. I think establishment Republicans have squandered their chances and can only come back if they nominate red state conservatives.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 6:59 pmNorth Dakota is treacherous in winter.
I hate winter.
There. I said it.
happyfeet (c60db2) — 9/6/2013 @ 7:25 pmI’m not going to argue about this issue, but I would point out that there is not a single solitary shred of evidence that the majority of American voters would flock to a conservative (in the sense you mean it) candidate for President. Again, in the sense that most of the folks who are opting out mean by “conservative.”
Ronald Reagan? There were many people who felt that he was not conservative enough (look at his position on abortion rights, for example). Time has an interesting ability to gild memories. And who do you have besides Reagan, even if you are correct?
The Ross Perot nonsense in 1992 gave us 8 freaking years of the Clintons, and led us here nearly directly. Thanks 3rd party people! You changed the landscape, but not in the way you intended. Teddy Roosevelt playing 3rd party games gave us Woodrow Wilson (a thoroughly repugnant man). There is plenty of data regarding centrism in the electorate.
I repeatedly hear how the electorate is just pining away like a Norwegian Blue for a truly conservative candidate. Again, there is no evidence. None.
Just wishful, magical thinking.
Obama a centrist? Not at all. The Democrats can get away with “extreme” candidates because the MSM and the culture itself cover for them. That is the crux of the problem.
You want to make change, it needs to be done locally, and work its way up. It’s going to take a long time. There is a straight up battle in the popular culture, and the MSM is right in there cheating at every turn. That’s the battle. But it’s not very glamorous. Good Lord do I know that.
You want to blame the RNC, go right ahead. The solution is not to hang out in your bunker and power your shortwave by bicycle while splitting wood. But it sounds ever so much more romantic than actually doing the hard, dirty work of trying to fix things.
Personally, I am sick and tired of hearing centrist candidates trying to reach a 50-50 split country denigrated unfairly—by the very side that such a candidate is trying to support. I watch a microscope being applied by the Right to so-called centrists, and those damned Mr. Magoo glasses donned when it comes to someone who is “more conservative.” Bachmann? Santorum? To misquote Cheney, you go to war with the troops you have who are best able to win the battle.
To be sure, pressure the RNC for what you want. But sitting out votes, and then complaining about the people you personally helped put into office is childish.
I realize that I am unpopular for saying this, and I am so tired I don’t care about any vitriol. But I keep hearing this bizarre magical thinking, repeated over and over like the folks at MSNBC talking about Syria. I am watching my country fall apart, and the people who are best able to save it are all fighting themselves—while the people who are tearing the nation apart are working together.
You like Ronald Reagan? Okay, what was his Eleventh Commandment? Rather than complain endless about candidates you don’t like (just like the Left cannot let go of GWB), work *toward* people you do support. That was one thing about Reagan that was special: his relentless positivity, in the face of challenges that were quite dire.
Sorry for arguing. And I am no one popular, influential, or important. I am just sick at how things are going in our country, and am hearing too much “let it burn” nihilism.
I’m not much of a jester these days. But I needed to speak my piece. Now I will take off and let folks pursue their dreams of purity of essence, to borrow from “Dr. Strangelove.” Our grandchildren will not look at what we are doing now with great affection.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/6/2013 @ 7:30 pmthat 700 clubber wingnut in Virginia is going down like a bald eagle on a wind farm
happyfeet (c60db2) — 9/6/2013 @ 7:38 pmNone of us, sat out the election, Simon, and the let it burn’ is selfabsorbtion, however could we have a candidate who doesn’t give the opposition the benefit of the doubt, Robin has illustrated the greater collectivist trends, through common core,
narciso (3fec35) — 9/6/2013 @ 7:39 pmand previously Ignite which were some magic beans sold to the Bushes among other parties,
The best vote I cast in my life was for Ross Perot.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 7:42 pmThis is why I’m of the opinion our troubles don’t end when Obama leaves office. He’s the symptom, not entirely the cause. He personally has no credibility. But as a country, the fact that someone like him is even electable means we as a nation have no credibility. Comment by Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/6/2013 @ 1:31 pm
I agree, Steve57. We are culturally and morally adrift and that’s worse than being politically adrift, because most of the public likes it that way. Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 1:48 pm
I second that, I third that.
Although I feel bad for right-leaning people who place the onus of responsibility for this society’s leftward drift on the Republican Party — for its ruling apparatus being too namby-pamby, for its ideologically squishy members — I think their conclusion ranks way, way down on the list of why we’re in such a mess, of why the US is becoming a Banana Republic. (However, I snort and snicker at “Republicans” who say the party hasn’t done better because it’s too rightwing).
I often point out the example of Detroit, Michigan (or similar urban areas throughout the US), nations like Mexico, Venezuela and Argentina, and EU societies like France and Spain, as a cautionary tale of just how bad things can get and yet many people in such an environment still not changing their way of thinking.
I blame the folly and foolishness of human nature. I blame the folly of liberal biases found in just about every person out there.
We have met the enemy, and he is us.
BTW, this country for several decades fell for the liberal clap-trap of Franklin D Roosevelt and his vice-president Harry Truman. Then, as now, many Americans blamed a Republican predecessor for causing intractable economic anomie, namely the Great Depression of the 1930s-40s, the Great Recession of today. But the leftward tilt in 2013 is far more pernicious than in past generations, because this nation is socially-culturally quite leftwing in the context of over 50 years ago, far more bogged down by big-government bloat-ism and self-entitled nanny-state-ism.
Mark (58ea35) — 9/6/2013 @ 7:43 pmIt’s a myth that Perot helped Clinton beat Bush. Bush’s polls were remarkably consistent throughout the race, and Perot’s re-entry into the race actually narrowed Clinton’s victory margin. Further, the exit polls showed the Perot voters split equally between Clinton and Bush.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 7:55 pmTruem DRJ, the prroblem with George HW is somewhat like that with Cameron across the pond, if you don’t continue to show interests in what your base wants,
narciso (3fec35) — 9/6/2013 @ 8:06 pmwhen you tick off those less focused vohorts you have nowhere to go,
Republicans were equally responsible for the Perot myth because it helped take the focus off how Bush’s wobbly domestic policies led to his defeat. As we’ve seen with Obama, it’s much easier to blame someone else when things go wrong.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 8:28 pmDRJ
I don’t think any credible source are out there stating that any Perot voters would have cast their ballots for Clinton.
I don’t remember any and its a new Tea Party propaganda memo that’s circulating – among many.
Really Hammer and Sickle stuff, the Tea Party is no such entity, there is no central organization and it mainly rests in the hands of the press and press hungry individuals
EPWJ (bdd0a6) — 9/6/2013 @ 8:56 pmIn my comment 122, I provided a link to an article about Perot’s impact on the 1992 election authored by a nonpartisan pollster with 35 years experience in polling analysis. Included in the link is exit poll analysis that states:
Feel free to disagree but it’s not correct to say that “I don’t think any credible source are out there stating that any Perot voters would have cast their ballots for Clinton.”
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:07 pmthe tea party care about principle over faction, it is more nationalizt then the GOP establishment, it is more freemarket, whereas Perot was on balance more leading toward protectionism,
narciso (3fec35) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:11 pmI don’t recall Perot’s position on free trade and protectionism, but it’s true he was completely opposed to NAFTA. I think he opposed NAFTA because it did nothing to raise Mexican wages, thereby encouraging American businesses to relocate to Mexico while doing nothing to stop illegal immigration. But 1992 was a long time ago and my memory could be wrong.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:17 pmThat may be right, then again NAFTA wasn’t a major topic in the ’92 election, he became more protectionist after the election, and by ’96, with PAt Choate as VO, katie bar the door,
narciso (3fec35) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:25 pmEPWJ,
In the LA Times, June 1992:
I think this makes it much easier to see why Perot’s votes came from both Clinton and Bush supporters.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:29 pmAll I can say is that when I see people whose opinions I largely respect
draw a red linestomp their feet and say they will not vote for such and such a nominee, or won’t vote at all because the choices are so poor or that they want to teach somebody a lesson, I just want to stream through the internets to them–stand with my hands on my hips–squint– and give them a dirty look and possibly a raspberry.C’mon. Life is full of choices . Life is one endless set of choices. And frankly the older we get the choices become both more important and harder because we are more aware of, and subject to, the complexities, interchanges, and responsibilities that make up a life. When having to make a choice, many times none of the available options are pleasant or optimal. But always, always one is a little better than the other if you really take the time to go there and take the time to think about it critically. I truly believe this. Not voting is more along the lines of a copout than making an active choice about anything.
Boycotting national elections is just anathema to me. Economically boycotting Macy’s because they ruined Marshall Fields is cool. Macy’s deserves it and there are other places to buy a shirt. Boycotting the NBA for cultural reasons because you don’t want to support the drugs and the outrageous salaries of the thug players is admirable. But refusing to vote in an election, or purposefully wasting a vote (third party) in an election where, whether you accept it or not, the outcome will affect your own life and that of your family for generations to come is nuts in my opinion.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:53 pmHow interesting because my experience has been just the opposite, elissa. I thought life was very complex when I was young but now that I’m older, the easier my choices have become. I have much more clarity about what matters to me.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 9:58 pmelissa,
I was more opinionated in earlier comments than I should have been. I probably will vote for a Republican as I mentioned in #87, but I draw the line at giving money to nominees who aren’t conservative enough for me. No mas dinero, and hopefully that attitude won’t make me an outcast here.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/6/2013 @ 10:18 pmSimon Jester@117-I see you shocked most everyone into stunned silence. Well, I’ve read it three times and FWIW I think what you said was solid, well presented, on point, and true. I agree with your analysis and your conclusions. I wish I were able to express them as well as you have here tonight. The microscope vs. Magoo glasses was especially keen imagery.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/6/2013 @ 10:25 pmYoda refuses to vote for the lesser of two evils he does! Still a vote for evil it is! By Yoda not voting for a candidate, still a vote it is! Yoda’s non-voting vote is vote against both candidates it is! To bad humans not enlightened and sophisticated enough to have choice of none-of-the-above, shame it is. On Yoda’s home world, if defeated by none-of-the-above vote, never again allowed to be on ballot of any kind are you!
Yoda (a84075) — 9/6/2013 @ 10:26 pmNot even allowed to be on ballot for nerph catcher are you!
Yoda (a84075) — 9/6/2013 @ 10:29 pmDRJ– You’re prolly just saying that because you don’t want me to come pay you a visit. 🙂
P.S. I rarely donate to campaigns myself and they are usually local ones.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/6/2013 @ 10:34 pmI voted for Romney and I voted for Mccain. I will never vote for another progressive republican no matter how boogeymanish his opponent is.
The GOP will need an awesome presidential candidate to get a vote from me. Not OK. Not liberal but lesser of two evils. Either the candidate rocks or I am not interested.
I wasn’t of voting age when Perot ran, but today I’d have voted Perot. History speaks clearly to the tremendous improvement in GOP effectiveness in the years after the 1992 disaster. They are cynical politicians who needed the motivation just as they need it today.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/6/2013 @ 11:37 pmI remember Mr. Perot. He was like a breath of fresh air. His campaign was starting to catch-on when he quit. That killed his momentum and when he resumed his campaign it stalled, IIRC.
—
My rule of thumb, FWIW: always vote, even if it is not for the GOP candidate. Find someone and vote for that person. If nothing else, voting allows one to ethically lodge complaints about the government.
By not voting, it is difficult to justify making such complaints, because such a person failed in his/her duty as a citizen, IMV.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/7/2013 @ 1:52 amPS: although it is late, my alcohol level is well below the legal limit. Just went dancing with the wife, caught a quick breakfast and couldn’t sleep. Just keepin’ the record clear: don’t drink and blog 😉
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/7/2013 @ 1:56 amBummer, PA. But there’s always next time.
nk (875f57) — 9/7/2013 @ 4:48 am138, 139. Both excellent points.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:39 am131. In the case of the Col’s example, Coleman vs. Franken I voted fourth party.
Yes, the election was stolen, and the Fool has lived down to his reputation.
MN has not reached her bottom. Much of the country soon will. Whether the GOP must die to rise again or just go away, really doesn’t interest her base anymore.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:45 amDustin
Romney was a democrat, no question about it, McCain’s very conservative but as older men get they tend to try and right wrongs and with the reconciliation with Vietnam which was totally unneeded and the campaign contribution overreach -he had lost his way and focus
This is why 12 years is enough for any senator
EPWJ (bdd0a6) — 9/7/2013 @ 6:14 amOne possible positive for the GOP ahead of 2016 when disaster will be all about us is the potential field of primary candidates.
Ahead of the 2012 election, versus the weakest incumbent since John Tyler, the conservative side of the ledger was crowded. The statists were able to unify early.
The next time the Dims will be comparatively awash.
Sen. Paul and Cruz could clear the deck for conservatives even if one doesn’t run. Jebbie, Huckster, CC, Rubio, etc., are all going to be falling over themselves to get on camera. King and Walker, et al., will also vie for coverage.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/7/2013 @ 6:43 am117. The ’96 election yielded a 49.6% turnout. Claiming Perot gave us Clinton is a bit rich.
Yes I told my office mates vowing to go Perot in ’92 they were wasting their vote. In retrospect I was an idiot.
Turnout in my conservative precinct was like 77%, but the suck of ‘Read my lips’ killed the GOP.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/7/2013 @ 6:50 am138. It strikes me that Dustin’s position on ‘centrists’ is both consistent and parallel to his argument against TEA fave O’Donnell who has proven rather less than consistent in her allegiances.
But a corollary going forward is that the Federal government cannot be populated by those willing to compromise with Dhimmis, whose primary goal is to fine tune, to make a deal, to manage the decline.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/7/2013 @ 7:05 amAs oppoaed to that other lineup of luminaries, that were felled by Carper ot Biden,
narciso (3fec35) — 9/7/2013 @ 7:07 amgary
you should consider that some “tea party” favorites could have been “opportunists” not really what a Tea Party self identifier would think deserves his/her support
Miller was one, O’Donnell surely another, Brown – well, he was marginally better than a dem, and Perry was considered the prototype Tea Candidate until he was unfairly accused of allowing illegal immigration…
So they are all over the place and so are the republicans, maybe its freedom of diversity
EPWJ (bdd0a6) — 9/7/2013 @ 8:01 amIt strikes me that Dustin’s position on ‘centrists’ is both consistent and parallel to his argument against TEA fave O’Donnell who has proven rather less than consistent in her allegiances.
Christine O’Donnell was an interesting example of a candidate who attracted generally the more right-leaning voters in Delaware, even though a closer scrutiny of what made her tick indicated she was ideologically peculiar, both somewhat of a chameleon and ethically challenged.
I recall being very irritated that O’Donnell’s entrance into the Senate race knocked out another Republican who was fairly squishy, but who at least had a non-flaky image hovering around him compared with that of O’Donnell. I guess in instances like that, although I fully sympathize with people who feel the way that Dustin does (generally speaking, since I know he was fully aware of the particular nature of O’Donnell), I realize that political tactics and the issue of ideological preferences sometimes do not go hand-in-hand.
Meanwhile, unlike the people in this nation back in November 2012, the people down under have more sense than we do. I find it interesting that right-leaning political parties in countries like Australia (or Japan) have the word “liberal” in their name. Talk about a situation where debate along ideological lines will be more difficult and susceptible to ambiguity. But, in a way, that perhaps can be tactically clever.
I’ve sometimes wondered if the Republican Party — applying the concepts of Madison Avenue (ie, salesmanship and public relations) — would have an easier time appealing to more voters if its name were different. “Republican” probably sounds stodgy and murky to various people, particularly younger voters, and therefore less catchy and viscerally cool. Then again, the rightist party in Mexico (National Action Party or PAN) has a name that I’d recommend for it, yet the politics in that country are no less tilted to the left than what’s true throughout urban or blue-state America. Still, I’ve occasionally mused how things would shake out if the Republican Party were named something like “Common Sense Party.”
Mark (58ea35) — 9/7/2013 @ 8:03 amYeah. Integrity is key for me.
Anyway, I don’t seek to upset those who disagree on the GOP, but I am expressing a reality about a lot of voters who were pushed too far with the Romney nomination. Every one of these people who complains about ‘purity’ when foisting someone who is purely a liberal on conservative voters might as well just kick the tent down.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/7/2013 @ 9:27 amI agree on that. Term limits.
Dustin (303dca) — 9/7/2013 @ 9:28 amEvery one of these people who complains about ‘purity’ when foisting someone who is purely a liberal on conservative voters might as well just kick the tent down.
Comment by Dustin
If you are referring to Romney, you and I have a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes liberalism and conservatism, Dustin.
Colonel Haiku (575991) — 9/7/2013 @ 9:31 amEthically compromised, like that phomy lien, the IRS slapped on her, the FEC complaint cooked by CREW,
narciso (3fec35) — 9/7/2013 @ 9:42 amwhich went nowhere, things of that nature,
After the slander of Soptic apparently stuck, you really have to wonder what they will conhure out of thin air. By Contrast, McAuliffe, has the stink of Lionel Hutz, and yet may win in Virgina
narciso (3fec35) — 9/7/2013 @ 9:47 amColonel Haiku:
I suspect we do have a fundamental disagreement about that, Haiku.
There seems to be a sentiment among Beltway and establishment Republicans that conservatives should donate to the cause and vote for the GOP nominee no matter what, because that’s what Democrats do and we won’t be successful without the same degree of solidarity. Our job as conservatives, it seems, is to toil in the local trenches and give until it hurts to make things better for Republicans across the nation.
But Texas is already conservative and Texans already vote for Republicans in national and statewide elections. In addition, we give and give to the national GOP nominees, even though they aren’t much like the leaders we elect.
If you want our money and our votes in the future, don’t expect us to meekly accept the theory that Republican Presidential nominees must appeal first and foremost to moderate or blue state conservatives. It doesn’t work that way in Texas and it doesn’t have to work that way in America.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 9:58 amMost of all, that theory didn’t work in America in 2008 or 2012.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 10:00 amNow boil that down and if you are telling me you think Romney is a liberal, does not believe in free market principles, in limited government, then yes, we still disagree.
Colonel Haiku (575991) — 9/7/2013 @ 10:14 amtoo much at stake to insist on POE.
Colonel Haiku (575991) — 9/7/2013 @ 10:16 amI wouldn’t give one thin dime to the RNC, but individual candidates – on merit – will receive my support and cash.
Colonel Haiku (575991) — 9/7/2013 @ 10:17 amIf you want our money and our votes in the future, don’t expect us to meekly accept the theory that Republican Presidential nominees must appeal first and foremost to moderate or blue state conservatives. It doesn’t work that way in Texas and it doesn’t have to work that way in America.
But DRJ, wouldn’t you concede that Texans tend to move to the left once they reach the national stage? I am thinking especially of LBJ and the two Bushes. It will be interesting to see if Ted Cruz holds on to his principles as he gets acclimated to Washington — I like what I see from him so far, but I know that the Borg tends to assimilate all but the hardiest.
JVW (23867e) — 9/7/2013 @ 10:26 amI think we’ve burned that meme to the ground, what do we need Crispy Creme or King, to prove the point.
narciso (3fec35) — 9/7/2013 @ 10:27 amThe Dems understand this as an inverse of Klausewitz, politics is the continuation of war, Too many, see it as a badmington match,
And I don’t literally mean “move to the left,” except where LBJ is concerned. I should have said “move to the center” or “drift leftward” or something to acknowledge that both Bushes were essentially decent conservatives, they just tried to hard to accommodate liberals.
JVW (23867e) — 9/7/2013 @ 10:28 amYarborough, was the real liberal in the Texas delegation, back then, Johnson was a new deal liberal, I do admit there has been backsliding on Cornyn’s part,
narciso (3fec35) — 9/7/2013 @ 10:34 am@141 Comment by nk (875f57) — 9/7/2013 @ 4:48 am
Heh — Next time!
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/7/2013 @ 10:38 am@142 Comment by gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:39 am
Thank you GG — same with you.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/7/2013 @ 10:38 amAll this talk about True Conservatives and litmus tests leaves me a bit confused. What is this conservative ideal that everyone seems so hot after? I suspect that even those folks advocating it cannot agree on what “it” is.
Please be specific. Are we talking fiscal conservative or social conservative? Both? Are Libertarians, who are radically conservative fiscally but against controlling people on any issues, including the social, conservative?
Liberal and conservative are such old and misused words that by themselves they mean nothing any more.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/7/2013 @ 10:58 amDRJ–If you care to, could you explain a little bit why you think that what you seem to refer to as “Establishment Republicans” and “Conservatives” are necessarily such two different things? Do you see them as so? Do you think whoever they are that they are so inherently and mutually hostile to each others principles that they are mutually exclusive? I don’t see it that way. I do see it as a conflict over practical politics on the right and what is, or should be possible to attain if we worked together on realistic goals from local to national candidates.
In Jan 2012 Dan McLaughlin wrote a very thoughtful piece which I had hoped would gain more traction on the right than it did. It asked readers to start with the premise that for all right leaning people it’s about the money and spending. That’s the part of Republican philosophy that makes us eternally at war with Democrats and leftists.
http://www.redstate.com/dan_mclaughlin/2012/01/17/what-the-republican-establishment-really-means/
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/7/2013 @ 10:59 amThey honestly think that elissa, but they ignore the left’s designs in education, in culture, in lawfare, considering this is the norm,
narciso (3fec35) — 9/7/2013 @ 11:09 amThe idea that we are advocating some purity test for true conservatives whatever the f@ck that is, is laughable. It fundamentally misses the point.
JD (682e58) — 9/7/2013 @ 11:16 amWell said, JVW. Maybe that is the nature of American politics, even Mr. Reagan had his compromises. Maybe conservatives and republicans could settle for the basics, a President who:
* has morally consistent values that are inviolate
* is sharp
* understands/respects the Constitution
* understands world and American history
* will work to restore/preserve the amendments in the Bill of Rights
* shrink the central government (bonus: turn the central government back into the federal government)
* balance the budget
The last three are the hard ones, sort of a litmus test. In short, a conservative President who may (must?) compromise on some issues (Social Security, welfare, Medicare, etc,) but will never betray the Oath of Office nor allow abominations to the Constitution to stand (Obamacare comes to mind.)
Something like that anyway.
Two-cents: There are exactly zero perfect candidates or, paradoxically, there are more than 300,000,000 million perfect candidates, they just can’t all be President.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/7/2013 @ 11:17 am@171 Comment by JD (682e58) — 9/7/2013 @ 11:16 am
Provided that I did not fundamentally miss the point 😉
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/7/2013 @ 11:20 amJD — ND has a tough one today.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/7/2013 @ 11:21 amSo you have a Mike Castle, a Meg Whitman, that doesn;t focus on the unifying element in Delaware politics, that kept Roth in power, but saw cap n trade as a worthy consideration, who didn’t understand the free speech argument in political finance, who sought that the toxic impeachment fumes against W need to be humored, the left is willing to throw every disruptive elemnent into the institutions because that is who they are,
narciso (3fec35) — 9/7/2013 @ 11:32 am@174 Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 9/7/2013 @ 11:32 am
Not sure if your comment is in reply to my comment @171, but if it is…
I was referring to the Presidential candidates; you listed state gubernatorial candidates — apples and oranges or, if you prefer, national and state.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/7/2013 @ 11:41 amComment by Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/7/2013 @ 11:17 am
Agreed, Pons. The only item I would add to your list — based upon the last five years — is that the President should also posses a modicum of humility. But I suppose that falls under your category of “morally consistent values.”
JVW (23867e) — 9/7/2013 @ 11:43 amWell it applies upwards as well, but I was focusing on where the farm team comes from.
narciso (3fec35) — 9/7/2013 @ 11:45 amOMG — yes.
Heh, good point narciso.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/7/2013 @ 11:49 amWho was this near perfect candidate in the run-up to 2012?
Colonel Haiku (017a27) — 9/7/2013 @ 11:57 amWell for srarters, lets not pick the candidate, who modeled the prototype of one of our strongest critiquwa od Obama policy,
narciso (3fec35) — 9/7/2013 @ 12:00 pmPons – my favorite game of the year.
JD (682e58) — 9/7/2013 @ 12:02 pmIT IS KINDA LOOKING THAT WAY: Yes, Mitt Romney was Right about Everything.
Posted at 10:21 am by Glenn Reynolds
Colonel Haiku (404b97) — 9/7/2013 @ 12:03 pmMike Castle, a Meg Whitman
Both would be better than what we got. Again, this is a two-party system, not a Smorgasbord.
You can have the chicken or the fish. If you insist on beef, you will get vegetarian.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/7/2013 @ 12:09 pmQuestion:
Who was the most “conservative” Republican presidential nominee since Reagan? Better yet, order them. This may get us somewhere on the issue.
If you answer is “none”, who was the best conservative candidate, limiting your answer to someone who one at least one primary.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/7/2013 @ 12:12 pmMy list, from most conservative to least, since Reagan.
Romney (yes, really)
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/7/2013 @ 12:16 pmDole (and I disliked Dole intensely — Santorum without the charm)
Bush Jr (spendthrift)
Bush Sr (double spendthrift)
McCain (Democrat)
#184, won, not one, of course
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/7/2013 @ 12:17 pmBTW, Romney had “morally consistent values”. Just not on the axis that some people cared about. Everyone has things they deeply care about and are consistent on, other things they really don’t give a —- about. For Romney it was on the economic axis, not the social one.
Or, by “moral” do you mean in the Leviticus sense?
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/7/2013 @ 12:21 pmLOL! So true.
Unless Jesus runs, we will never agree on a perfect candidate (even then…)
GOP/Conservatives eat their young, that is our weakness, but it is also our strength. We’ll figure it out…this time 🙂
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/7/2013 @ 12:24 pmCandidates, not political movements, are elected to office, narciso. IMHO, Kevin M’s on the right track here.
Colonel Haiku (cd6dde) — 9/7/2013 @ 12:26 pmAnd every single one of the folks on Kevin’s list was head and shoulders above the Putz currently occupying the Oval Office .
Colonel Haiku (1011ad) — 9/7/2013 @ 12:30 pmGood question; more in the terms of Kant’s philosophy — moral terms must be rational. Not Leviticus, more Ten Commandments or better yet, New Testament two-commandments. Something like that.
At the end of the day, there has to be universal moral terms that ALL conservatives believe and hold. It is possible that such terms may not be describable by language, in which case we are just going to have to hash it out, which is what we are kinda doing now.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/7/2013 @ 12:38 pmHmmm… an embarrassment of riches.
Yeah, we have to do bette, for sure.
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/7/2013 @ 12:42 pmJD — is it just me or does Kelly really dislike Rees?
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/7/2013 @ 12:45 pmAnd every single one of the folks on Kevin’s list was head and shoulders above the Putz currently occupying the Oval Office
I’d be pickier if human nature weren’t infused with liberal reactions, but that’s not reality.
There apparently are a not-small percentage of non-liberal, if not right-leaning, Americans who even today emotionally blame Bush Jr for the great recession as much as, if not more than, they blame Obama. Such is the origins of why even within the US military a prevailing mindset has developed that coddles a Nidal Hasan until it’s too late. Or why someone who makes the simple, basic observation that the Jewish-American community is predominantly of the left will trigger feelings of “that’s racist!, that’s bigoted!”
The origins of that is why in today’s era a Nidal Hasan (or a Trayvon Martin, or a same-sex couple in the military) is increasingly emotionally/legally protected, while a Paula Deen (or a George Zimmerman, or a military pastor who preaches disapproval of homosexuality) is increasingly emotionally/legally targeted.
As for recent Republican campaigners, the only one who would have made me totally, completely incensed were he nominated was Obama’s former ambassador to China, Jon Huntsman. However, I fully sympathize with those who say that squishy attitudes in Republican politicians help make, and are making, Obama’s America far more corrupt.
What’s also sad is that in the ongoing Banana-Republic-ization of the US, the unnerving phrase that come to my mind more and more is: Beggars can’t be choosers.
Mark (58ea35) — 9/7/2013 @ 1:11 pm==someone who makes the simple, basic observation that the Jewish-American community is predominantly of the left will trigger feelings of “that’s racist!, that’s bigoted!”==
Keep up the self pity and keep effen that useless and meaningless rhetorical chicken, Mark. My Jewish neighbors to the south who are entrepreneurs, my Jewish neighbors to the north –a husband and wife who own a business that employs about 50 people, the Jewish doctor at the end of the cul de sac who hates Obamacare, the Jewish Russian emigre whose construction firm recently did work on our house? They would all beg to differ with you. All of them openly vote Republican and contribute to Republican candidates the majority of the time.
Yeah, the Christmas lights in our neighborhood are humorously spotty and we laugh about it, but it’s a great, warm, friendly place to live. There are also some die-hard liberals (surprise–several of them lawyers) some who are of a Christian faith and some who are Jewish. We all tend not to be too personally judgmental which is why it works, I think.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/7/2013 @ 1:55 pmPerhaps if we each ask ourselves the question – Are we better with Obama than we would have been with Romney or McCain or even Christine Mcdonnell ?
It is as true now as it was 5 years ago, and now we have the economic and domestic and foreign policy track record – which says we would have been better off with any of those three than to have Obama as President …
For some, it was a ‘purity’ issue … for others it was disliking one or more of our side’s candidate’s beliefs … or any of the reasons offered … the end result too often was either a vote for a third party candidate or no vote cast …
And in the interests of the philosophy that said “In a choice between Democrat-lite and a real Democrat, you might as well vote for the real Democrat”, we have ended up where we are now …
The rational reality is that Democrat-lite is *still* and *remains* significantly better than real Democrat …
Emotionally unpalatable and uncomfortable, ain’t it ?
Alastor (b8ae9d) — 9/7/2013 @ 2:59 pmJVW:
LBJ was a Democrat and the Bushes are not typical. George HW Bush was not from Texas and is not a Texas conservative. His son, George W Bush, is a Texas conservative but he’s the Dallas version and they are a special breed — sort of the flip side of Austin liberals. Both believe big government is the answer to impose their political agendas.
People like John Cornyn and Kay Bailey Hutchison are more typical Texas conservatives but I agree that they moved left at times in their careers. I think there are many reasons for this — some personal, some political — but IMO the main reason is the leadership positions that Texas politicians have historically sought in Washington tend to push Texas politicians to compromise and that moves them to the left. The implicit assumption Texas politicians made is that the leadership role was worth the concessions and compromises. I’m not sure that’s true anymore for most Texans, although I suspect Texas business interests still care about this a lot.
Cruz has shown he can have an impact without a leadership position, and without the “leadership waiting period” new Senators and Representatives have historically endured. The short-term result is that Cruz hasn’t changed his positions on the issues and, in fact, has significantly pushed Cornyn to the right. We’ll see if it lasts throughout Cruz’s term and if he runs for re-election whether this is a new Texas model for political representation or a short-term model that won’t last.
I think point of your comment is that even Texans realize their brand of conservatism doesn’t sell on the national stage, so Texans have to compromise our beliefs when we go to Washington. That probably was the conventional wisdom in the past — especially prior to and during the Bush years — but I’m not sure it is now. Endlessly expanding government is a disastrous policy and it has to stop. There is no more room for compromise.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 3:00 pmMy standards aren’t really unrealistic. I usually see at least a couple I find reasonable in the first couple of tiers of candidates.
But I’m not arguing for or against anything. I’m reporting reality. There are a lot of folks like me, tea partiers, who have decided that the GOP has failed for far too long to continue getting support for no reason. If they give me a reason, then I will give them support. But they have to give me a reason at this point. I do not feel any partisan loyalty.
Dustin (fb7203) — 9/7/2013 @ 3:01 pmelissa:
They are two different things in Texas. Cruz vs Cornyn/Hutchison is an example of our extremes, and both Cornyn and Hutchison vote very conservative compared to Washington’s standards. Replace Cornyn and Hutchison with someone more moderate by Washington standards and it’s culture shock for us. Some of the things moderate Republicans support are alien to us. RomneyCare would have disqualified Romney from getting elected dogcatcher in most Texas cities.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 3:05 pmAlthough I’m sure he would have been a fine dogcatcher.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 3:06 pmThere is too much at stake, Colonel Haiku. Enough moderate Republicans. Let’s try something else.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 3:07 pmColonel Haiku:
I know you care about Romney and I also know you realize I like him as a person and a candidate. I gave money to him, I voted for him, and I’m not sorry I did either. I doubt we will ever see a more moral, caring, honest, decent person running for President.
But he lost and all the good feelings in the world don’t change that. We have to go back to our basic conservative principles.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 3:14 pmI’ll work for Cruz and donate and even raise money for him if he gets the nomination.
But, does anyone really think he’s running?
EPWJ (bdd0a6) — 9/7/2013 @ 3:26 pmCruz is running for President.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 3:30 pmI want to echo this comment. It makes me very sad when people describe these types of discussions as giving up on the GOP or as making it impossible for Republicans to win elections.
I think we are a stronger party and nation when we have discussions like this — discussions that hash out different views — instead of letting these issues simmer below the surface. They will surface in the future and it’s much better for everyone if we face them now.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 3:42 pmKeep up the self pity and keep effen that useless and meaningless rhetorical chicken, Mark.
Elissa, you’ve reacted with indignation in the past when some basic statements are expressed, such as one about a high percentage of Jews (again, not all, but a high percentage of) being of the left. That’s a well-known statistic, a fundamental reality. Pointing it out is no less appropriate than, for example, stating that “snow tends to form in cold weather” when analyzing why there’s white stuff on the ground during winter. (Or trying to figure out why Sammy is so enthralled by the siren call of liberalism.) The neighbors you describe may not be of the left, but unless various surveys and data are inaccurate, the people you know are the exception to the rule.
For you to characterize my stating simple reality about most people (you included) struggling with left-leaning biases on occasion, which can easily lead to the idiocy of Nidal-Hasan-ization (ie, political correctness run amok—even in the US military), as a case of self-pity or meaningless rhetoric makes me wonder if the line of “methinks he doth protest too much” fits such instances.
Mark (58ea35) — 9/7/2013 @ 3:45 pmHuckabee is getting some notice, I don’t know if its the proverbial, lets run through the also-rans
I did my best to defeat him last time but had no idea McCain would get the nomination…
EPWJ (bdd0a6) — 9/7/2013 @ 3:46 pmI felt the same way, EPWJ. I was so intent on not letting Huckabee get the nomination that I didn’t see McCain coming.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 4:01 pmand it’s going to happen again,I he’s got the evangelicals and the Lawrence Welk crowd and that’s enough in the nomination Calendar to win or place in the first 5 and Ted would have to get nasty and against a preacher who’s pro and the anti immigration, not going to play well
Huckabee is going to be a problem
EPWJ (bdd0a6) — 9/7/2013 @ 4:19 pmand then anti immgration
EPWJ (bdd0a6) — 9/7/2013 @ 4:20 pma one an’ a two an’ a…
Colonel Haiku (5458c8) — 9/7/2013 @ 4:21 pmJust sayin’, DRJ… just sayin’… again, elections have consequences and, in this case, they’re disastrous. Teach your children well…
Colonel Haiku (5458c8) — 9/7/2013 @ 4:24 pmThere is too much at stake, Colonel Haiku. Enough moderate Republicans. Let’s try something else.
Comment by DRJ (a83b8b)
If less than 30% of the country identifies as “liberal”, that shouldn’t be a problem. With this last election, the people that are either in the middle, lean right or are rock-ribbed conservative who couldn’t generate enough motivation to get off their lazy asses to vote and stayed home instead… there comes a time when we all have to recognize that there is absolutely no excuse for that sort of behavior and they are a big part of the problem.
Colonel Haiku (5458c8) — 9/7/2013 @ 4:33 pm201 – DRJ, Bill Whittle is different.
mg (31009b) — 9/7/2013 @ 4:34 pmI’d vote for Bill Whittle!
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 4:41 pmI’ve done some serious self analysis. I have come to the conclusion that I do in fact “react with indignation” to holier than thou know it alls who make things personal, and who for some reason think it’s their duty and responsibility to attempt to figure out– and then announce– what makes other commenters tick.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/7/2013 @ 4:47 pmI’m not sure the path to victory is telling voters who stayed home how stupid they are, Haiku.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 4:51 pmPeople vote in the ways and at the times they want. Part of politics is making people want to vote for your nominee.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 4:53 pmdid it include shooting tin cans on the back fence?
EPWJ (bdd0a6) — 9/7/2013 @ 4:54 pmI’m not sure the path to victory is telling voters who stayed home how stupid they are, Haiku.
Comment by DRJ (a83b8b)
That’s not the point, DRJ. I did not say stupid. I said lazy. We have to find a way to better motivate these voters or there needs to be more folks volunteering to drive them to the polls. I provided some transportation this last time around and rather enjoyed it.
For Keerist’s sake, if people aren’t motivated by things falling down around their ears, what will it take? I’m all ears, but it ain’t the Jesus of Conservatives.
Colonel Haiku (5458c8) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:04 pmWhy do you say that, Haiku? I’ve read several analyses about 2012 but I never read that people were too lazy to vote.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:10 pmOr do you mean it in the sense that people had other things to do and didn’t make time to vote? Expanded early voting options and more poll stations help, although most states have already done that.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:12 pmWhittle and his little productions are great, but living in L.A. probably lessens his chance for a presidential run.
mg (31009b) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:18 pmDRJ, the number of eligible voters increased by approximately 8 million, with 5 million fewer votes cast.
“Voter turnout dipped from 62.3 percent of eligible citizens voting in 2008 to an estimated 57.5 in 2012. That figure was also below the 60.4 level of the 2004 election but higher than the 54.2 percent turnout in the 2000 election.
Despite an increase of over eight million citizens in the eligible population, turnout declined from 131 million voters in 2008 to an estimated 126 million voters in 2012 when all ballots are tallied. Some 93 million eligible citizens did not vote.”
Where did you read any analysis that indicated better outcome for Rs if the Jesus of Conservatives had run?
Colonel Haiku (5458c8) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:18 pmThere are a multitude of factors that contribute to our folks not casting votes, but, in the end, they have to find it within themselves in much greater numbers to make a difference.
Colonel Haiku (5458c8) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:20 pmSpeaking for myself, nothing short of a gunshot to the head would have prevented me from voting last November. We need more “fire” instilled in people, pull them back from lassitude and despair that things won’t/can’t change for the better.
Colonel Haiku (5458c8) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:22 pmWe’ve tried two moderates. I don’t see why it will work to nominate a third moderate if it didn’t work the first and second times, especially since one was a war hero and the other was a paragon of virtue. Who is the moderate Republican that can surpass those qualities?
But IMO your point isn’t about the nominee as much as the GOTV effort. That needs to be much better.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:26 pmFrankly, we need better ways to target single issue conservative voters and convince them their issue matters. Obama perfected this.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:28 pm226 – Colonel, I’m with DRJ. We have to try something else. If not, lazy people will be on the rise. Me included.
mg (31009b) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:29 pmBut IMO your point isn’t about the nominee as much as the GOTV effort. That needs to be much better.
Comment by DRJ (a83b8b)
Agreed and I still think that if the truth were told, there were some vile tricks afoot (not the usual) and collusion by web-tech companies and the media… stuff that we don’t already know about.
Colonel Haiku (5458c8) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:30 pmColonel, I’m with DRJ. We have to try something else. If not, lazy people will be on the rise. Me included.
Comment by mg
Don’t make me come there and give you a swift kick with my size 12 wingtips, mg!
Colonel Haiku (5458c8) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:31 pmI agree there are many lingering tech questions from this past election. I want to know whether Obama used NSA data in his campaign.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:35 pmDon’t fall for a Bush or a Huckabee
mg (31009b) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:36 pmAnd you won’t!!!
DRJ, the first or second campaign?
mg (31009b) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:39 pmDRJ–whoever comes out ahead in the primaries of both parties will be the 2016 nominee. We agree on this, right? On our side, whichever candidate garners enough contributions and voter interest to go the distance while fending off a hostile press and OFA will be the R nominee, right? Whichever candidate ultimately makes more sense to the wider rank and file of the right leaning community which incorporates a range of interests (or whichever candidate stumbles least) will capture the primary vote state by state, week by week, right?
“We” will nominate a moderate for the presidency if that’s who wins the primaries. “We” will nominate a more Conservative person if that’s who wins the R primary season. It seems that the work that needs to be done needs to be done now–building organizations and firming up constituencies.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:46 pmmg — I was thinking about the second campaign but it could be either or both.
elissa — Yes. Whoever wins the primaries will be the GOP nominee, and I hope he or she will get our votes.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:54 pmJust so your know, I did some serious selg analysis when you said I was self-unaware.
And some push-ups.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:55 pmg is next to f on the keyboard.
Steve57 (35dd46) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:56 pmYeah Steve57. O and I are also right next to each other on the keyboard. They’re the two that most often trip me up. When I was in High School, students tended to avoid taking a typing class. Who knew we’d all be clacking away just a couple decades later.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/7/2013 @ 6:02 pmI think it was always going to be hard for a Republican to defeat the first African-American candidate who wasn’t directly tied to the cesspool of the Jackson/Sharpton branch of the “civil rights” movement, who was young and handsome with a rich sonorous voice, who had the double Ivy League education and was thus considered to be brilliant, and who managed to have most of the trendy social positions while being able to plausibly pretend that he could move his party beyond the usual failed big government liberalism. Add to that the collapse of the economy and what appeared at the time to be a somewhat unfocused foreign policy.
I think as time goes on those of us who thought Romney was a squish will come to see that he was actually pretty sagacious and strong in his convictions. It’s too bad he’s not the one sitting in the Oval Office today.
JVW (23867e) — 9/7/2013 @ 6:15 pm149. I’ll admit to being mostly snowed by Rubio until the endorsement of him who shall not be named. Whathisname, McVain’s competition, gave me a similar feel, Kasich, many others, opportunists.
Walker is an altogether different example of one who is impressive, but as a loyal party line Republican, I’d rather not turn my back on.
I do agree, just because one is a suspicious SoB does not preclude being taken in.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/7/2013 @ 6:17 pmSo the net vote turnout was lower, it may have been the nastiness of the campaign, however it’s important
narciso (3fec35) — 9/7/2013 @ 6:22 pmto have a rooting interest, their side manufactured one out of spit and bailing wire,
Speaking for myself as a lunatic fringe Luddite oft ignored, its my way or the highway. You Blue Staters that want someone a neighbor might vote for can have your election.
Its too late to turn the Titanic around 8000 meters above the debris field and accelerating.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/7/2013 @ 6:24 pmWe’ve tried two moderates. I don’t see why it will work to nominate a third moderate if it didn’t work the first and second times,
However, make sure to not spend so much time assessing the candidates (and their ideology) that not enough time is given to assessing the nature of the electorate. That would include everyone around us, from family to friends, from neighbors to co-workers, from acquaintances to people in online forums. And, yea, that’s why I often scrutinize what makes people tick (including here at patterico.com), because how everyone thinks and responds to issues and politicians is a window into where this nation is headed.
BTW, a person would be a fool to assume that figuring out the nature of political correctness run amok (or socio-cultural liberalism off the deep end) in no less than the US military is a case of “holier than thou” or somehow not the responsibility of an informed voter. One would be a fool to not realize that trends like the following can be applied to not just one group in particular, but people in general. For example, polling data that reveals the American public-at-large has grown more liberal about the issue of same-sex marriage, or how a country like Argentina (of mostly European extraction—and far more homogenous than the US) is generally not much less friendly to Eva-Peron-ist socialism/liberalism than a country like Venezuela or Mexico.
Keep in mind that to be a liberal in the context of the 21st century (in 2013) is very, very liberal in the context of 20, 40, 60 or more years ago.
Mark (58ea35) — 9/7/2013 @ 6:25 pm115. I would agree with your assessment. The GOP(or replacement) will have to reignite relations with small business that have been allowed to languish pursuing big money just as the Dhimmis do. They can do this with a frontal assault on regulation. Repeal and sunset 50 years of bureaucracy.
Second, they need to capture the socially conservative working class on the rebound when pensions collapse to 20 cents on the dollar. The Dhimmis can no longer entrain their obedience.
The reality is the GOP aims their message way too much at the Wall and Broad consortia that are successful regardless of who runs DC. That obsession just blows any hope of rapport with the marginally informed, and frankly that is Amerikkka today.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/7/2013 @ 7:07 pmElissa – I share your “indignation”
JD (5c1832) — 9/7/2013 @ 8:00 pmYeah Elissa!
Me too. I wonder what it would take for him to run?
Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 9/7/2013 @ 9:43 pmBut IMO your point isn’t about the nominee as much as the GOTV effort. That needs to be much better.
Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/7/2013 @ 5:26 pm
Agree with this Yoda does not. Conservatives tired of being told to support Gundark in Nerph’s skin! Vote against Sith Lord instead! Want someone to vote for , conservatives do! Someone to vote against, conservatives do not want! To Conservatives give them someone to vote for and turnout will take care of itself!
Yoda (127915) — 9/7/2013 @ 10:19 pmImagine that there was a fire. A fire that threatened the future of the country. The fire is government growth (spending and power).
Half the country doesn’t care about the fire. Half does care and would like the fire to be put out. But a fair percentage of the anti fire and pro fire people don’t actually care that much about the fire itself. They are fixated on partisanship for its own sake.
So the GOP goes to the store to find a product to sell the masses, and the democrats do too. The democrats come out with a can of gasoline. The GOP comes out with cigarette lighter.
None of the anti fire people will buy the product the democrats are selling. A can of gasoline added to a fire results in an explosive growth of fire. None of the anti fire people really think the cigarette lighter is going to put the fire out either, but they think it’s better than pouring gas on the fire.
But customers like me are realizing it’s a waste of money or effort to invest in either product. We are going to leave the store empty handed.
Even though many of the partisans will get angry and say ‘it if your fault that gasoline is added to the fire of debt and power’.
No, it’s the RINO brigade’s fault for failing to propose a solution to the debt and power expansions that isn’t a balanced budget and serious reforms limiting power. One after another, the GOP gives us a progressive, spendy, power expanding Republican. That won’t work. We all know it won’t work. Some are so aware of it that they talk about the Romney’s entirely in terms that have nothing to do with fixing anything. He’s a swell guy or whatever. Like Obama fans, basically.
Well, the conservatives are a faction the GOP has to work much harder to attract now. That is a political reality that the pure partisans will have to consider if they wish to win a national election.
But this was the lesson of 1992 and 1996 and 2008 and 2012. It’s not about learning it so much as accepting it.
Dustin (a3605c) — 9/8/2013 @ 12:08 pmWho are these steadfast politicians who have actively pushed against the dismal tide of profligate spending and growth of goverment, Dustin?
Colonel Haiku (e8b3e4) — 9/8/2013 @ 12:17 pm
Colonel Haiku (e8b3e4) — 9/8/2013 @ 12:19 pmgovermentgubmintI’m with you in spirit, Dustin, but:
==One after another, the GOP gives us a progressive spendy, power expanding Republican. ==
No, there were a bevy of candidates to choose from. The primary voters “give” us the candidate.
== the conservatives are a faction the GOP has to work much harder to attract now.==
No. It’s not the “GOP” that needs to attract conservatives. It’s the voters of America who must be attracted by conservatives.
elissa (6b3fdb) — 9/8/2013 @ 12:27 pmIt’s too late for threats and recriminations, the sorrowful pup’s been shot. Bargaining is over.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 9/8/2013 @ 12:51 pmPeople have asked me some questions that I’ve tried to answer as best I can, and now I’d like to ask the following questions of people who disagree with my desire to avoid a moderate Republican nominee:
Do you think our nation’s problems can be solved by any Republican President, or does he/she also have to be a committed fiscal conservative?
How can you tell when a person is a fiscal conservative? For instance, do you look at a nominee’s rhetoric, actions, background, or something else?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/8/2013 @ 2:24 pm