Patterico's Pontifications

8/28/2013

Another Historic Speech

Filed under: General — JD @ 6:06 am

[guest post by JD]

Teh One will give yet another historic speech to commemorate MLK JR’s “I have a dream” speech’s 50th anniversary.

Yesterday, Obama cautioned about having elevated expectations, and in a moment of rare humility, suggested that his own historic speech won’t be as good as Dr King’s.

In Vegas, there should be a prop bet on the over/under of I/me/my and another for the number of I/me/my said prior to saying Dr King. Add in “Like Dr King, I …” and “let me be clear.”

—JD

249 Responses to “Another Historic Speech”

  1. I have a dream, that one day people will be judged by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin.

    Colorblind is racist.

    JD (d35e20)

  2. Like I have always said, I have a dream … etc., JD.

    nk (875f57)

  3. My preferred method of commemorating Dr. King’s speech would not be listening to President Obama prattle on. My preferred method of celebrating the 50th anniversary of Dr. King’s inspirational “I have a Dream ” speech will be to watch a video of Dr. King actually giving his speech.

    elissa (dda108)

  4. Meanwhile, economic markers were release and they were unexpectedly poor.

    This according to the media who will say the speech is historic.

    AZ Bob (c99389)

  5. If any of you do listen to the First Teleptompter Reader, I predict you’ll hear that MLK is for Obamacare.

    elissa (dda108)

  6. I went to middle school located in a primarily black neighborhood, and I remember that during PE, the coach would start every day after we’d changed into our gym clothes by saying “I have a Dream….that one day ALL MY BOYS WOULD ARRIVE ON TIME, IN LINE, DRESSED RIGHT.”

    For years, this was the only reference I had for “I have a dream….”

    Pious Agnostic (c45233)

  7. The repeal of “stand your ground” laws, too.

    nk (875f57)

  8. I saw a brief clip of someone last night talking about having a dream of overcoming white supremacy.

    I think people need to go back to the ideas that King voiced about everybody coming together working toward the same fundamental goals instead of the bickering about which group is going to overcome the other group.

    Of course, if some want to foment instability of our own society for the sake of la revoluccion’, then it makes sense in a wicked sort of way.
    “Useful idiots” abound.

    MD in Philly (from a different computer and location) (226c84)

  9. I saw in Hope ‘n Change cartoon today that The One is asking whether Martin Luther King’s dream “was about me?”

    I’m certain that the Bamster will allude to the fact (in his mind at least) that King’s dream was only about Obama.

    Comanche Voter (f4c7d5)

  10. I have a dream that one day we will one day we will judge atrocities not by the content of the weapon used, but by the content of the death toll involved.

    Barack Obama (ae4bf1)

  11. I have a dream, that one day we will judge going to war not by the color of my “lines” but by the content of how the situation affects our security.

    Barack Obama (ae4bf1)

  12. I have a dream that one day we will go to war not because of the color of my written executive order but by the content of what Congress and the Constitution has to say.

    Barack Obama (ae4bf1)

  13. I have a dream that one day we will judge whether we have sufficient international support not based on the color of the flag France waves but rather on the content of all national opinions.

    Barack Obama (ae4bf1)

  14. Isn’t former President Bubba also speaking at this event? An interesting side bet would be which one of them will tell the most self-serving story about themselves using MLK as the foil.

    JVW (bea3f2)

  15. Chris Matthews already pronounced the speech the best of Obama’s presidency in advance. He like totally forgot that Obama was black again.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  16. “I have a scheme…”

    Martin Luther “King” Obama

    Colonel Haiku (198f23)

  17. Let me be clear-BLAH BLAH BLAH.

    Bugg (9cc79b)

  18. Yesterday, Obama cautioned about having elevated expectations,…

    Way ahead of ya, Mr. President.

    …and in a moment of rare humility, suggested that his own historic speech won’t be as good as Dr King’s.

    Yeah, I’m guessing that too.

    But it isn’t all bad, maybe he can break his own record for using the pronoun “I” in a national speech. He’s real good at that.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  19. We have more race problems in this country because of the polarizing way Obama and his surrogates have chosen to divide and govern. It’s a shame, not only because of what it’s doing to America and Americans, but also because of what it will do to the minorities Obama says he wants to help. Government policies designed to lower expectations for minorities are not going to help minorities in the long run.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  20. I hope Obama doesn’t use this speech to talk about specific cases like Trayvon Martin, even in passing.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  21. All thru teh day… I Me Mine, I Me Mine, I Me Mine…

    Colonel Haiku (90595d)

  22. Chris Matthews update: the motor-mouthed TV personality was rushed to the emergency room after suffering a tingling sensation up his left arm and leg…

    Colonel Haiku (90595d)

  23. DRJ – I foresee a lot of Trayvon type references, but no references to situations such as the DOJ suing Louisiana schools to eliminate voluntary voucher programs for school choice because too many black kids were escaping failing schools, leaving the failing schools disparately white. The DOJ wants to force the black kids back into the failing schools for their own good.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  24. Colorblind is racist.
    — JD

    There it is in a nutshell.

    When there is a concentrated effort to not judge/coddle/entitle someone by their skin color, Democrats in general and liberals et al go absolutely nuts. Such have to judge people by their “color,” which is the heart of racism.

    The liberal ideology is predicated on racism, it needs racism, but yet remains intellectually blind to it. Such an adherent to this liberal philosophy calls other racists if they dare to disregard color and look at a fellow human being, solely based on by the content of their character. This is done without shame or reflection. Hypocrisy is just not a big deal to those that hold dear this liberal philosophy. This is something that President Obama can never understand and it is he why is making things worse, and helpless to make things better.

    Today’s liberalism is such a horrid philosophy (for this and other reasons). It seeks to reverse MLK’s Dream, divide Lincoln’s House , and take America’s promise.

    That is why I am a Conservative and like so many others, have proudly and easily rejected these racists.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  25. ay yi yi — typos:

    on by the content of their character = on by the content of their character.

    he why = why he

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  26. You know DOJ is suing Louisiana, probably at the behest of the teacher’s uinion, over its school voucher program on the grounds that it conflicts with desegragation.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324352004578132993575990774.html

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323407104579037020495325310.htm

    Passed in 2012, Louisiana’s state-wide program guarantees a voucher to students from families with incomes below 250% of poverty and who attend schools graded C or below. The point is to let kids escape the segregation of failed schools, and about 90% of the beneficiaries are black.

    But Justice is more worried about the complexion of the schools’ student body than their manifest failure to educate. During the 2012-13 school year, about 10% of voucher recipients came from 22 districts that remain under desegregation orders from 50 or so years ago.

    For example, says the complaint, in several of those 22 districts “the voucher recipients were in the racial minority at the public school they attended before receiving the voucher.”

    See also: http://patdollard.com/2013/08/justice-department-sues-louisiana-over-school-vouchers/

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  27. 8. Oil prices also shot up right before the second Iraq war – then went down. Interest rates also went up, except for U.S. Treasury bonds and other issues.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  28. Really JD, did you wager much?

    tifosa (7ba941)

  29. tifosa,

    At least when JD wagers, it is with his own money.
    On the other hand, you lefties insist on placing wagers with other people’s money.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  30. every time i learn that our SCOAMF is giving a speech or some other public appearance where he will open his pie howl to blather, the first thing that comes to my mind is the sound track of an adult talking in a Peanuts TV special.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  31. howl = hole, but it’s kinda appropriate the other way too… musta been my subconscious snark adding in it’s $0.02. 😎

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  32. Sweet — it’s a lecture!

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  33. Why celebrate MLK’s Dream when you are trying to kill it — the President is a genius.

    It is awesomeness listening to an African-American President tell us how racists we are.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  34. Judging by the lukewarm response of the crowd, it looks like his prediction about making a mediocre speech as been realized.

    What a proud moment for Democrats (those who like like they are wake that is).

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  35. Hey, there is the first black President. He is easy to find cuz he is the only pale one on stage.

    Diversity!

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  36. “I have a dream…and it is from my late Marxist, drunken, bigamist father.”

    Barack Obama
    Aug 28, 2013

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  37. 28. The point being that a few tanks of gas will be well worth it during the lousiest stretch of the Cinema year.

    Muslim on Muslim violence, what’s not to love, pussies?

    More popcorn.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  38. MLK’s speech accomplished absolutely nothing. Blacks in 1963 had had civil rights since the 14th amendment in 1868. Segregation had been abolished in 1954.

    What King wanted wasn’t “rights” it was entitlements. The 1964 civil rights act established a de-facto quota policy where blacks would be rewarded without any regards to the facts. The latest consequence has been the installation of our affirmative action prez.

    CK (ae4bf1)

  39. tiffy – I want to talk about your entrenched interests.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  40. CK- you are entitled to your opinion but in my opinion your jumping from 1868 to 1963 (or 1954) while conveniently skipping over all of Jim Crow sort of lessens the effectiveness of your larger point.

    elissa (dda108)

  41. I will admit to quite a bit of ignorance about MLK’s biography; there seems to be many conflicting accounts about MLK’s precise political stance. Can’t make heads or tells about that, but his words are quite clear:

    I have a dream, that one day people will be judged by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin.

    Those words — those words — echo the greatness that is reflected in the Declaration and the Constitution.

    As an American, I could not be prouder. His Dream speech is a national treasure.

    Now this, guy, not so much.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  42. The civil rights movement had absolutely nothing to do with our founding principals. At the time of the adoption of the constitution blacks were not considered citizens in either northern or southern states. One of the first laws passed by congress in 1790 established that only white people could become naturalized as citizens.

    Barack Obama (ae4bf1)

  43. OT: Michael and Zeta are no longer one.

    Gee, what could’ve happened, 13 years and its over?

    Not the very public implication that he contracted cancer from the diseased petri dish that is his wife of independent means?

    I thought the media loved them.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  44. “They had for more than a century before been regarded as beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race either in social or political relations, and so far inferior that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect, and that the negro might justly and lawfully be reduced to slavery for his benefit. He was bought and sold, and treated as an ordinary article of merchandise and traffic whenever a profit could be made by it. This opinion was at that time fixed and universal in the civilized portion of the white race. It was regarded as an axiom in morals as well as in politics which no one thought of disputing or supposed to be open to dispute, and men in every grade and position in society daily and habitually acted upon it in their private pursuits, as well as in matters of public concern, without doubting for a moment the correctness of this opinion.”

    The Supreme Court (ae4bf1)

  45. 39. Well, I was about to enter the sixth grade and watched the speech live.

    “What King wanted” I’d have to say was “that every knee bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord”.

    Just sayin’.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  46. “We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among them is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, Governments are instituted, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”

    The general words above quoted would seem to embrace the whole human family, and if they were used in a similar instrument at this day would be so understood. But it is too clear for dispute that the enslaved African race were not intended to be included, and formed no part of the people who framed and adopted this declaration, for if the language, as understood in that day, would embrace them, the conduct of the distinguished men who framed the Declaration of Independence would have been utterly and flagrantly inconsistent with the principles they asserted, and instead of the sympathy of mankind to which they so confidently appealed, they would have deserved and received universal rebuke and reprobation.

    Yet the men who framed this declaration were great men — high in literary acquirements, high in their sense of honor, and incapable of asserting principles inconsistent with those on which they were acting. They perfectly understood the meaning of the language they used, and how it would be understood by others, and they knew that it would not in any part of the civilized world be supposed to embrace the negro race, which, by common consent, had been excluded from civilized Governments and the family of nations, and doomed to slavery. They spoke and acted according to the then established doctrines and principles, and in the ordinary language of the day, and no one misunderstood them. The unhappy black race were separated from the white by indelible marks, and laws long before established, and were never thought of or spoken of except as property, and when the claims of the owner or the profit of the trader were supposed to need protection.

    The Supreme Court (ae4bf1)

  47. And still further pursuing its legislation, we find that, in the same statute passed in 1774, which prohibited the further importation of slaves into the State, there is also a provision by which any negro, Indian, or mulatto servant who was found wandering out of the town or place to which he belonged without a written pass such as is therein described was made liable to be seized by anyone, and taken before the next authority to be examined and delivered up to his master — who was required to pay the charge which had accrued thereby. And a subsequent section of the same law provides that if any free negro shall travel without such pass, and shall be stopped, seized, or taken up, he shall pay all charges arising thereby. And this law was in full operation when the Constitution of the United States was adopted, and was not repealed till 1797. So that, up to that time, free negroes and mulattoes were associated with servants and slaves in the police regulations established by the laws of the State.

    The Supreme Court (ae4bf1)

  48. By the laws of New Hampshire, collected and finally passed in 1815, no one was permitted to be enrolled in the militia of the State but free white citizens, and the same provision is found in a subsequent collection of the laws made in 1855. Nothing could more strongly mark the entire repudiation of the African race. The alien is excluded because, being born in a foreign country, he cannot be a member of the community until he is naturalized. But why are the African race, born in the State, not permitted to share in one of the highest duties of the citizen? The answer is obvious; he is not, by the institutions and laws of the State, numbered among its people. He forms no part of the sovereignty of the State, and is not therefore called on to uphold and defend it.

    The Supreme Court (ae4bf1)

  49. The first of these acts is the naturalization law, which was passed at the second session of the first Congress, March 26, 1790, and confines the right of becoming citizens “to aliens being free white persons.”

    Now the Constitution does not limit the power of Congress in this respect to white persons. And they may, if they think proper, authorize the naturalization of anyone, of any color, who was born under allegiance to another Government. But the language of the law above quoted shows that citizenship at that time was perfectly understood to be confined to the white race; and that they alone constituted the sovereignty in the Government.

    The Supreme Court (ae4bf1)

  50. The Master

    “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  51. @43 The civil rights movement had absolutely nothing to do with our founding principals.

    Comment by Barack Obama (ae4bf1) — 8/28/2013 @ 1:12 pm

    Actually, our founding principals yielded the Civil Rights movement. Those principles allowed the following progression, although it is doubtful the Civil Rights movement is the end-all:

    3/5 compromise –> Civil War –>The Emancipation Proclamation –> 620,000 dead –> corrected mistake.

    Our Founding Principles allow us to approach an ideal in which imperfect human beings create imperfect institutions and then correct mistakes over time. Today, this very Civil Rights movement now seeks to bind people of certain skin color to mediocre achievements and low goals (warning: the link is to the LA Times).

    Our Founding Principles will correct that as well (given enough time and provided liberal philosophy does not subsume the Constitution).

    The ideal is of course expressed by MLK’s speech, as well as the Declaration and the Constitution. That is the genius of our system.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  52. Supreme Court-
    I am puzzled both by your comment @47 as well as your flexible/movable handle here.

    We–each of us–regardless of sex, race or physical and mental attributes, have to live and maneuver in the time and within the societal structure into which we are born. Far sighted and brave individuals can step up and inspire and work for change and betterment, but only so much movement is ever possible in any generation. That includes the founding fathers in their time. Are you suggesting that their laying out and codifying the principles we know as the American Constitution was not a major step forward in world history and not an important benchmark that ultimately and over time has benefited all Americans’ human rights regardless of race? Are you suggesting they were somehow lesser men for living under and reflecting some normative 18th century rules and values rather than our 21st century values?

    elissa (dda108)

  53. Comment by Pons Asinorum (8ce71a) — 8/28/2013 @ 1:50 pm

    In one way I can believe he would believe and say such a thing, it is consistent with his indoctrination.
    It also reflects the fact that he has no respect for the Law as an institution. In his mind something is good and should be made to happen because he and those who agree with him think it is good. Current law does not develop from precedent, you only use that as an argument because some still think that it does.
    Current law, in practice, depends only upon the ability and will of those in charge to enforce it.
    Tyranny, not rule of law. At the moment it just hasn’t been fully revealed.

    MD in Philly (from a different computer and location) (226c84)

  54. Pons, Lincoln himself opposed giving full rights to blacks. The only reason blacks were given civil rights in 1868 was because Radical Republicans wanted to use them to maintain highly corrupt Republican Reconstruction governments in the South.

    Black were imported as slaves because of self-interested greed and given civil rights (in 1868 not 1964) because of self-interested greed. Principle had nothing to do with it.

    CK (ae4bf1)

  55. CK, your comments ignore the long history of morals-inspired Abolition movements.

    SPQR (768505)

  56. JD, do we have a multiple nick violation or three in this thread?

    SPQR (768505)

  57. Seward was the leading abolitionist in the Cabinet, however, he certainly threatened the sineew of the peculiar institution, at it’s foundation,

    narciso (3fec35)

  58. Who thought there would be a Bourbon Redeemer, still hanging around at this day and age.

    narciso (3fec35)

  59. Greed and self-interest are ever present and are the motivation for many things.
    But if you say they are always the motivation, then whatever you think was ever “good” in society was nothing more than what was in the self-interest of one group instead of another.
    If that is what you want to argue, go ahead, but you lose any reason to say slavery was bad other than it was bad for the slave because it was not in his or her self-interest.

    If you let the idea reign that all is always done with respect to (immediate, current) self-interest, you get the law of the jungle and nothing more.

    Moral principles of human beings is what makes us higher than the animals of the jungle
    (or lower than the animals of the jungle when we fail to live by them).

    MD in Philly (from a different computer and location) (226c84)

  60. 45. 47. 48. 49. 50.

    53. Comment by elissa (dda108) — 8/28/2013 @ 1:55 pm

    Supreme Court-
    I am puzzled both by your comment @47 as well as your flexible/movable handle here.

    He’s quoting from the Dred Scott decision, written by Chief Justice Roger B. Taney
    in 1857 as I guessed and Google confirmed (one thing Google is very good for that you couldn’t do before is finding where quoted text comes from)

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0060_0393_ZO.html

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  61. 39 and 55 superficially seem contradictory.

    Normalization of the antinomies may be more than I care for, however.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  62. Sammy- that’s not what I meant by “puzzled”, or the point I was going for with respect to the founding fathers.

    elissa (dda108)

  63. And by the way, what’s said there in the dred Scott decision wasn’t at all true and correct.

    It is NOT true that people did not doubt for a moment the correctness of the
    opinion that that the negro might justly and lawfully be reduced to slavery. That might be what perhaps some people might want to start believing in the 1840s and 1850s but it wasn’t true. Still less was there any kind of opinion that “that the negro might justly and lawfully be reduced to slavery for his benefit! The idea that slavery might be for the benefit of the slaves is pure ante-bellum stemming from the advocacy of John C. Calhoun.

    Taney was pretending that what some people in tghe south wanted everybody to believe was what everybody believed in the 1780s.

    And in fact “the conduct of the distinguished men who framed the Declaration of Independence” or some of them, was “utterly and flagrantly inconsistent with the principles they asserted” and to bring them into consistency, slavery was abolished in many states.

    And what that an act in Connecticut says that the reason the slave trade was being abolished asserts

    “And whereas the increase of slaves in this State is injurious to the poor, and inconvenient”

    that’s a secondary reason, which they may not even have believed at all, but it wass to argue that abolishing the slave trade was to the benefit of the people who they represneted and to gain a few extra votes. Much like it is argued today that more immigration is for the benefit of those who are American citizens today.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  64. gg@62- yeah. exactly. Flamethrower. CK’s the same guy as Barack Obama, Supreme Court, etc.

    elissa (dda108)

  65. 63. I suppose the point of comment 47ff was to argue that the principles of the Declaration of Indepedence wewre not what what Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King said they were.

    But the Dred Scott decision was rather dishonest especially the point about people in the 18th centry believing slavery wss for the benefit of the Negro.

    The whole case was a test case – to argue that once free, Dred scott was being reduced to slavery again by the laws of teh stgate of Missouri, and if Missouri could do that to him, it could do that to a white man as well. Proetectors of slavery went to a great extent to avoid that conclusion – that anybody new was being or could be, made a slave. The supreme Court could have disposed of that argumemnt, and it did, by arguing that all that counts is the law ofthe state, but Chief Justice Taney wnet further. Lincoln argued thay might make slavery legal in every state in the next decision.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  66. No, Sammy, you’ve missed the forest for the tree, ‘what part of they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights’ did you miss.

    narciso (3fec35)

  67. Roger Taney, was the worst kind of political hack, having so thoroughtly denied the basic nature of humanity, that I can’t envisage what would be a proper eternal torment for what he wrought.

    narciso (3fec35)

  68. 55. Lincoln believed into the war years that the best solution to the racial divide would be to return the blacks to their countries of origin.

    This while also believing that slavery was repugnant and untenable under our Constitution reducing it to a sham.

    It would seem the clinching argument for restoring the union was that slavery would not end and therein neither would war.

    The Emancipation Proclamation was given at that time to both undermine the South’s war effort and provide aother source of committed recruits.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  69. And what that an act in Connecticut says that the reason the slave trade was being abolished asserts

    “And whereas the increase of slaves in this State is injurious to the poor, and inconvenient”

    We see that same stupid, gotta-justify need for a utilitarian reason for laws all the g*damn time, still. You know, democracy means it’s ok to say, “Because it’s ugly and disgusting and we don’t f***ing like it and we are the majority so f*** you”.

    nk (875f57)

  70. In Vegas, there should be a prop bet on the over/under of I/me/my and another for the number of I/me/my said prior to saying Dr King. Add in “Like Dr King, I …” and “let me be clear.”

    Have your count yet?

    tifosa (7ba941)

  71. @55 Pons, Lincoln himself opposed giving full rights to blacks.

    Comment by CK (ae4bf1) — 8/28/2013 @ 2:04pm

    Guess he changed his mind.

    From the National Archives and Records Adminstration:

    President Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation on January 1, 1863, as the nation approached its third year of bloody civil war. The proclamation declared “that all persons held as slaves” within the rebellious states “are, and henceforward shall be free.”

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  72. President Lewinsky was there, too, and he told Obama that used to suffer terribly from prickly heat in the humid DC summers, and Obama said, “I have a cream”.

    nk (875f57)

  73. No invitation to the only black senator, Sen. Tim Scott, no invitation to Justice Clarence Thomas, just another Democrat suckfest.

    Colonel Haiku (180a66)

  74. Invitations to Boehner, Cantor, GWB and 41. All declined.

    tifosa (7ba941)

  75. Pons, being free didn’t automatically mean you had civil rights. That didn’t come until the 14th amendment in 1868.

    CK (ae4bf1)

  76. Didn’t get 40 acres and a mule, either.

    nk (875f57)

  77. They’re discriminating against those black high achievers who don’t adhere to their lockstep orthodoxy. Honoring Dr. King, my ass.

    Colonel Haiku (cd8c27)

  78. 76. Pons, being free didn’t automatically mean you had civil rights. That didn’t come until the 14th amendment in 1868.

    Comment by CK (ae4bf1) — 8/28/2013 @ 4:01 pm

    What self-interest and greed explains the 14th Amendment? Since White duplicity, selfishness, and greed explains everything else in your world inquiring minds wan to know.

    Steve57 (713b70)

  79. No molasses for their cornpone.

    nk (875f57)

  80. The only reason blacks were given civil rights in 1868 was because Radical Republicans wanted to use them to maintain highly corrupt Republican Reconstruction governments in the South.

    Comment by CK (ae4bf1) — 8/28/2013 @ 2:04 pm

    The only reason ae4bf1 (?) — no, there were several and they numbered in the hundreds of thousands.

    As for your theory, hmmm, let’s see how that would go: “Hey everyone, I got an idea. Let’s start a Civil War and have both sides fight for (!) slavery.”

    Yeah, the logic just flows doesn’t — but maybe you can sell it to a liberal — the ones that believe anything and don’t care about logic.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  81. I have a dream… a dream that one day, black people will enjoy freedom of thought and will be judged not only by the content of their character, but also by their good works… and not solely by their submission to a political party that has kept them in chains and mired in poverty.

    Colonel Haiku (eb9508)

  82. I hope Tim and Clarence and other similarly respected, accomplished African Americans of importance take it as a point of pride that they were not invited and did not have to share the stage with the baiters and schemers and were therefore able to cringe at today’s over the top partisan rhetoric from a distance.

    I think commemorating the anniversary of the march and MLK’s speech was important for America and Americans to do. They were significant events. I also think the exclusionary and antagonistic way the commemoration was executed today is both sad and horrific. Apparently the crowd was not very large and many of the participants were federal workers who had been given the day off.

    elissa (dda108)

  83. Ahh, I missed that post about Reconstruction.

    It’s amazing how one can connect dots in history after the fact to make events fit a later self-serving theory.

    It reminds me of global warming. The same people at the University of East Anglia CRU who said that “global warming” would mean that English children would grow up not knowing what snow was were forced 10 years later to claim that they always said that “climate change” meant Britain would see heavier snowfalls and colder winters.

    Not entirely successfully, I might add.

    How much easier to wait a century or so to pound those round historical pegs into your square ideological holes, CK.

    Steve57 (713b70)

  84. RNC had their 50th anniv gathering yesterday. No word that they invited Jst. Thomas.

    tifosa (7ba941)

  85. The justices are supposed to be above politics, tifitita… guess you missed that civics lesson… shockah!

    Colonel Haiku (eb9508)

  86. you effin’ maroon, ya…

    Colonel Haiku (eb9508)

  87. Ahh, I missed that post about Reconstruction.

    It’s amazing how one can connect dots in history after the fact to make events fit a later self-serving theory.

    It reminds me of global warming.

    Comment by Steve57 (713b70) — 8/28/2013 @ 4:20 pm

    It is actually kinda fun. You can make up anything you want without regard to logic, and if the facts don’t fit, just ignore them. Best part, ya don’t have to prove any assertion, just make it up.

    And yeah (lol), it is a lot like Global Warming.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  88. responding to #83 and snark :)
    ah civility…

    tifosa (7ba941)

  89. @55 Black were imported as slaves because of self-interested greed and given civil rights (in 1868 not 1964) because of self-interested greed. Principle had nothing to do with it.

    Comment by CK (ae4bf1) — 8/28/2013 @ 2:04 pm

    The following takes place at the evil Radical Republican headquarters: “Hey everyone, I have an idea. Ya know the slavery thing that has served our self-interested greed so awesomely? Well, let’s have a Civil War and get rid of the slaves for our self-interested greed!”

    Yeah, logic still not working for you ae4bf1 — keep trying.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  90. tifitita is on teh HuffPuff…

    Colonel Haiku (eb9508)

  91. Tifosa, did you honestly think the day’s events were respectful and in line with Dr. King’s own approach to race relations and his hope for a more united America? Was Al Sharpton’s presence on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial useful toward that end, for example?

    elissa (dda108)

  92. Resist we much!

    Colonel Haiku (eb9508)

  93. The democrats continue to toss pillows in that hole. A new big screen, new hardwood floors, paved driveway, phones, college, ebt cards and more.
    With a big dose of no work. I am concluding everyone is comfortable.

    mg (31009b)

  94. Elissa, Sharpton’s a renowned civil rights leader. He spoke for a few minutes and was well-received. Maybe Cantor or Boehner could have spoken about, oh say, Chicago violence, single mothers, “takers,” or free stuff, but they didn’t.

    tifosa (7ba941)

  95. Paul Mirengoff has a very nice post up on the 1963 march. He and his dad were there, and he remembers.

    …..I have never been more optimistic about politics than I was that day. Fifty years later, I think there would be agreement across the political spectrum that my optimism was excessive.

    But today I want to note the extent to which the optimism was justified. Less than a year after the great march, Congress passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (which, among many other things created the EEOC for which I would later work). More historic legislation followed, and over the next decade or two, barriers to equal opportunity were smashed. Today, we have a black president.

    The emerging black middle class continued to grow. I feel confident that nearly all of the young blacks who poured off the buses on August 28. 1964 became part of that middle class, if they didn’t belong to it already.

    Today, I have very limited optimism about race relations in America going forward. I hope that’s mostly a function of being 64 years old, not 14.

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/08/remembering-the-great-civil-rights-march-of-1963.php

    elissa (dda108)

  96. Sharpton’s a renowned shakedown artistcivil rights leader and race pimp”

    tiffy – FTFY. Sharpton is responsible for more deaths than George Zimmerman. Please explain what he has done to advance civil rights.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  97. 76. Pons, being free didn’t automatically mean you had civil rights. That didn’t come until the 14th amendment in 1868.

    Comment by CK (ae4bf1) — 8/28/2013 @ 4:01 pm

    Well, ae4bf1, the fault is mine. I ass-u-me-d that freedom is a big deal if you are a slave. Especially if your country just expended hundreds of thousands of her sons to fight for that freedom.

    As for the 14th amendment, Steve57 beat me to the punch and I have the same question:

    @79 What self-interest and greed explains the 14th Amendment? Since White duplicity, selfishness, and greed explains everything else in your world inquiring minds wan to know.

    Comment by Steve57 (713b70) — 8/28/2013 @ 4:09 pm

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  98. What Sharpton knows about is civil judgments — evading paying them.

    nk (875f57)

  99. If you think the fact that Al Sharpton once knew MLK makes him a “renowned civil rights leader” after all the years of lying and corruption and agitating and false accusations and the damage he’s done to innocent people, there’s really no hope about having a reasoned discussion on race with you, tifosa.

    elissa (dda108)

  100. Without looking it up, I don’t know what he’s done beyond bringing attention to issues related to civil rights, leading peaceful marches.
    He’s a respected voice in the black community.

    tifosa (7ba941)

  101. elissa, you dispute that he was welcome today?

    tifosa (7ba941)

  102. “He’s a respected voice in the black community.”

    tiffy – Who told you that and who told you what he is respected for? You have no clue.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  103. I’m so hoping that tifosa just said that to make our heads assplode all over our computer screens. She can’t possibly really think Al Sharpton is a “leader” can she?

    elissa (dda108)

  104. Any community in which Sharpton is a respected voice, is by definition a degenerate community that deserves no respect. Any movement of which he is a renowned leader is by definition a despicable movement that should be held in contempt by all decent people.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  105. Tifitita… do you have something that backs-up the invitation to “Boehner, Cantor, GWB and 41″? My sources say that is not true.

    Colonel Haiku (fec36a)

  106. That image is just too much fun elissa. 😀

    tifosa (7ba941)

  107. “Sharpton’s a renowned civil rights leader.”

    I guess we have to ask Yankel Rosenbaum about that… oh, wait… I guess we can’t.

    Colonel Haiku (fec36a)

  108. Crown Heights… your head is crowning, tifitita, and it’s heading to a deep and dark place…

    Colonel Haiku (fec36a)

  109. tiffy – Why no speeches from Clarence Thomas, Condi Rice or Colin Powell?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  110. By the way, it astounds me every time I see Sharpton’s opponents unthinkingly refer to him as “the reverend”. What has he done to deserve reverence? He should be referred to as “the contemptible Al Sharpton”.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  111. Maybe the same reason they didn’t speak at yesterday’s RNC 50th celebration luncheon daleyrocks?

    tifosa (7ba941)

  112. tiffy – Did they invite Dr. Ben Carson? He would have been very good.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  113. idk, maybe he spoke at yesterday’s RNC luncheon, or not.

    tifosa (7ba941)

  114. “Sharpton’s a renowned civil rights leader.”

    I guess we have to ask Yankel Rosenbaum about that… oh, wait… I guess we can’t.

    Actually Sharpton didn’t get involved in that until after Yankel was already dead. So he can’t be blamed for that. But people sometimes forget that it wasn’t just one isolated murder, it was a three-day pogrom, with the police ordered to do nothing to stop it, and Sharpton arrived in the middle of it to stoke the fire and keep it going. He didn’t start it but he sure did nothing to stop it. It’s a miracle that nobody else was killed.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  115. The only part of Sharpton’s performance that I saw was some poor park ranger having to hold an umbrella over his head on the You tube vid of his spittley speech. If you say he was “welcomed” I’ll take your word for it, tifosa. Now, will you take my word for it that he’s a deceitful moron and a cancer on society and that he has done more to poison race relations in America and get rich off it than almost anyone else in recent memory? Thank you.

    The “We fought Jim Crow and now we’re fighting James Crow Junior, esq.” is particularly lovely imagery from his fevered brain, I think.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w3dQWpaMok

    elissa (dda108)

  116. Nobody disputes that Sharpton was welcome at this event; that’s precisely the point — any event at which he is welcome is a despicable event that no decent person should have attended.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  117. Of the victims of Freddie’s Fashion Mart, or the train that Colin Ferguson shot up.

    narciso (3fec35)

  118. Opinion, elissa. Fine.

    tifosa (7ba941)

  119. Actually Sharpton didn’t get involved in that until after Yankel was already dead. So he can’t be blamed for that.

    I call bullsh*t.

    Colonel Haiku (fec36a)

  120. Milhouse, maybe Rush can unleash some GOPoutrage so our esteemed Repub congresspeeps will announce to the nation just how despicable today’s event was.

    tifosa (7ba941)

  121. and, of course, call the attendees ‘indecent.’

    tifosa (7ba941)

  122. It’s a fact, Colonel. Yankel was stabbed right at the beginning of the riot. That’s why he was on the street in the first place; he had gone to get a haircut, and the phone call to stay indoors came just too late to call him back. If he’d taken a minute or two longer before deciding to go out, he’d have heard the warning and been safe. Sharpton didn’t get there until the next day.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  123. “If the Jews want to get it on, tell them to pin their yarmulkes back and come over to my house,”

    – The “Reverend” Al Sharpton, one day before the start of the Crown Heights riot

    http://www.thejewishstar.com/stories/Recalling-Al-Sharptons-role-in-1991-Crown-Heights-riots,4242?page=1&content_source=#

    Colonel Haiku (fec36a)

  124. What has Rush got to do with it? If today’s event welcomed Sharpton then it was despicable, and every person who didn’t leave when he showed up was indecent. Nobody needs Rush to tell them that!

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  125. read that and tell me again of the innocent Al Sharpton, Milhouse…

    Colonel Haiku (fec36a)

  126. – The “Reverend” Al Sharpton, one day before the start of the Crown Heights riot

    One day before the riot there was no riot. His general antisemitism had nothing to do with what happened that day.

    You want to know who was responsible? There was a radio announcer on a black radio station; I forget his name right now, but he was on the radio that day, ranting about how the Jews had murdered a child, and calling on his audience to take revenge. I don’t think you’ll find this reported anywhere, but it happened. I’ve got his name written down somewhere and will try to find it for you, but I can tell you from first-hand accounts what happened on the day.

    Yankel’s death was a confluence of many freak chances. Not only would he not have gone out of the call had come a few minutes earlier, he wasn’t even supposed to be staying in Crown Heights on that trip. He had been staying with a friend in Flatbush, but just that week he moved in temporarily with some friends in Crown Heights; he was supposed to stay for a week or so, and then move back to Flatbush.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  127. Colonel, Sharpton is far from innocent, but that specific murder can’t be pinned on him. He missed it. He tried his best to foment another one, but fortunately failed.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  128. Tiffy is in a lather. Again. Shocking.

    JD (b0f86f)

  129. 112. “the contemptible Al Sharpton”.

    I’ll go with that, if the need to refer arises.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  130. Sharpton didn’t pull the trigger, Milhouse, but he and the others named in the article were to blame for Rosenbaum’s and other murders, millions of dollars of property damage,critical injuries and mayhem.

    Colonel Haiku (fec36a)

  131. read the article, not one sentence.

    Colonel Haiku (fec36a)

  132. 76. I’m certain the inability of current Americans to properly present the views of their betters from earlier centuries is simply the current residents lack the language skills to read the founders in their original idiomatic brilliance.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  133. Sorry, Colonel, it just ain’t so. Facts are facts. Sharpton simply wasn’t involved in any way in the riot until the second day. He hurried over to join as soon as he could, but he missed this particular murder, because it happened right at the beginning, perhaps before he even heard that anything was happening.

    His previous and long-established antisemitism is a completely different matter. He was no peacemaker, but contributing to an atmosphere of hatred is very different from actually inciting a murder.

    By the way, I have the name of the radio show. It was the Gary Byrd show. Here’s what my informant (who himself heard the broadcast) wrote to me:

    It was a series of news bulletins I heard while listening to the Gary Byrd show. The bulletins were not by Byrd himself—though, IIRC, he commented on them and helped whip up the hysteria—I want to say that the name was something like “Mark Shields,” but that could be a false memory. The bulletins came at the hour, half hour, and possibly quarter-hour station breaks, which means that it should be possible to track down who was doing news reportage for that station at that time.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  134. I read the article, Colonel. I also have many first-hand sources for what happened, something that you don’t have. I know when Sharpton showed up, and what he did then. Yankel was stabbed before then.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  135. I wasn’t there myself, but I have heard at least several dozen first-hand accounts from people who were directly involved, including the people Yankel was staying with, who got the warning just after he stepped out to get a haircut, and tried to call him back.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  136. I know a lot of details that were never reported anywhere. For instance this story about the Gary Byrd Show.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  137. Yankel was a friend of mine, and I well remember our last conversation. His death hit me hard. And I would love to blame Sharpton for it. But it ain’t so.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  138. He poured the gasoline, the matches came later,

    narciso (3fec35)

  139. Twitchy’s commenters notice omething curious about Google’s tribute to the 50th anniversary of MLK’s I have a dream speech. This is how Obama looks from the rear. This is how MLK looked. Note the ears in each photo. Which one looks more like the Google representation?

    By the way, it’s very hard to find photos of Obama taken directly from the rear that show his ears, as opposed to slightly offset and other photos where his ears aren’t as noticeable. I bet that’s not a coincidence given how frequently the Obama White House releases its own content and is thin-skinned about media coverage of his image.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  140. —-Elissa, Sharpton’s a renowned civil rights leader

    Sharpton’s a renowned civil rights leader infamous race baiter with a legal judgement for a race baiting hoax.

    Fixed it.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/15/nyregion/sharpton-s-debt-in-brawley-defamation-is-paid-by-supporters.html

    red (7b5f67)

  141. He poured the gasoline, the matches came later,

    You write as if the ground had been clean, and he poured gasoline on it. That wasn’t the case at all. There was a more than sufficient pool of gasoline already there in that neighbourhood to sustain a fire. And he didn’t even pour it in that location, so the analogy breaks down completely. Blaming him for Yankel’s murder is exactly like blaming him for every racist crime that anybody has committed during his career, anywhere in the country, on the grounds that he has generally contributed to a poisonous racial atmosphere. But so have a lot of people. Maddox. Mason. Jeffries. Jackson. Farrakhan. Hey, blame the Black Panthers while you’re at it. They all contributed, in one way or another, to the atmosphere that ignited that day, but that doesn’t make them directly responsible for what happened then and there.

    Gary Byrd was responsible, because he was inciting it on the radio. Charles Price was directly responsible, and was convicted of incitement. And Sharpton definitely shared in the responsibility for the days of rioting that went on after he got there. It’s a miracle that nobody else got killed in those three days (though there was a lady who committed suicide because it brought back her memories of the Holocaust and she couldn’t bear to live through that again). But he was not responsible for what happened in the first few hours, any more than the Bolsheviks were responsible for the start of the October Revolution.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  142. Anyone else read that account and come away thinking that Sharpton and the rest of the sh*theels named were innocent?

    Colonel Haiku (399c43)

  143. In one way I can believe he would believe and say such a thing, it is consistent with his indoctrination.
    It also reflects the fact that he has no respect for the Law as an institution. In his mind something is good and should be made to happen because he and those who agree with him think it is good. Current law does not develop from precedent, you only use that as an argument because some still think that it does.
    Current law, in practice, depends only upon the ability and will of those in charge to enforce it.
    Tyranny, not rule of law. At the moment it just hasn’t been fully revealed.

    Comment by MD in Philly (from a different computer and location) (226c84) — 8/28/2013 @ 2:03 pm

    Yes, MD, I think that too. Part of the indoctrination is an attack on moral values and critical thinking skills. Something as incredible as the Law is not thought about in any philosophical depth or intellectually rich manner. If it is brought up at all, then a standard “white man made the law so it is bad” type of reflex is embedded in their developing minds. That is probably the end of it for most of those, which is too bad because and history of Law as an institution is incredibly interesting — the real game of Civilization. It also reveals the genius of our Founding Fathers.

    Just putting this out there: Kant once stated that a requirement for morality is that it must be rational — and therefore immorality must be irrational (my sub-standard paraphrasing).

    The way I see it, MD, is that Tyranny is always lurking and lately it does seem to be gaining power, but guess what? We are still here Doc. And we will not surrender our kids or our country. And we number in the millions. We know rational thinking, we know moral codes, we know Freedom. But mostly, we know that people can live together in a free manner and govern themselves (not perfectly, but better than a any tyrant). And that is something Tyranny fears.

    The cool thing is that the more powerful tyranny becomes, the more it fears us — and with good reason. ‘Cuz as it becomes more powerful, We tend to put aside differences and when that happens enough, We will beat its a$$ back to the Old World.

    Of course, if we can stop Obamcare right here and now, then we can go back to self-government via the Constitution.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  144. Colonel, from the article you linked:

    Sadly, had Sharpton not exploited the death of Gavin Cato for his own “resume,” what was, by all accounts, a disorganized group of ruffians on the first night of the riot, might well have dissipated the morning after the accident.

    That’s probably right. He turned what might have been one night of terror for the Jews of CH into three days. All the beatings and violence that happened on those three days and afterwards are fairly blamed, in part, on him (though not just him; let’s not excuse all the others who did just as much). But the first few hours happened without him. If you need an inciter to blame, blame Charles Price, and Gary Byrd and his reporter.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  145. Anyone else read that account and come away thinking that Sharpton and the rest of the sh*theels named were innocent?

    Innocent?! Who said anything about innocent?

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  146. Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 8/28/2013 @ 6:19 pm

    The thing to do is take an image of him facing directly into the camera, make it into a grey tone (B&W), then fill in the face with black, resulting in a silouette. Doesn’t matter weather he’s facing back or front at that point.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  147. Elissa, Sharpton’s a renowned civil rights leader.
    Comment by tifosa (7ba941) — 8/28/2013 @ 4:56 pm

    Amazing. Sharpton has led with racist smears that led directly to racist violence, all to pad Sharpton’s pockets. He has corroded both civil rights and peace. He is no leader on any issue that is good. He is a leader of the race hustle and nothing else.

    Dustin (2dcedb)

  148. They’re discriminating against those black high achievers who don’t adhere to their lockstep orthodoxy. Honoring Dr. King, my ass.

    If liberalism or leftism were a race or ethnicity, that would be the only racial or minority group that various activists — both white and black “progressives” — would give a damn about.

    Nonetheless, there has been sort of progress, if you will, in the 50 years since MLK’s speech. Namely, recent opinion polls revealing that a larger portion of the public — both black and white — in today’s era believes blacks are more likely to be racist than whites.

    Mark (fd91da)

  149. That’s a good idea, papertiger.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  150. Just what I wanted for my MLK 50th anniversary.

    Read about some baboon from NYC.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  151. It’s also the anniversary of the 1968 Chicago Democratic Convention riots or, if you prefer, the birthday of the first American Catholic saint, Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton.

    nk (875f57)

  152. Elissa, Sharpton’s a renowned civil rights leader.
    Comment by tifosa (7ba941) — 8/28/2013 @ 4:56 pm

    Every time we think tiffy can’t get any stupider, she leaves a turdlet like this.

    JD (5c1832)

  153. Earlier I was going to suggest that we have an alternate Sharpton is a renowned———(fill the blank) contest for tifosa’s benefit and edification but she seems to have left.

    elissa (dda108)

  154. Didn’t our first half-black president also say we have to end the pipeline from underfunded schools to overcrowded jails?

    He probably want to ignore the trends in school spending versus school enrollment over the past 50 years in the belief that continuing to throw more dollars at a problem will somehow miraculously solve a problem that hasn’t been solved by throwing money at it in the past. Nevertheless, we have had three presidents oppose school choice since MLK’s speech, Carter, Clinton and Obama. For some reason they are bound and determined to keep minority kids in failing schools even when they could choose better ones, because the children are the future or something.

    Tough to square with MLK’s vision, isn’t it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  155. Which do you prefer for the origin of your name, elissa? Elizabeth (probably correct), or Ellysion (the good part of Hades)? I doubt that it’s Alice, it’s a hard “c” (k) sound in Greek but if you like it it means “fair” as in white-skinned.

    nk (875f57)

  156. I mean that Elizabeth is probably the correct origin, not that it means probably correct. 😉

    nk (875f57)

  157. Sharpton’s a renowned civil rights leader.

    Bob Filner is a renowned feminist.
    Ward Churchill is a renowned educator.
    Kris Kardashian is a renowned mother.
    Ted Kennedy was a renowned driver.
    Miley Cyrus is a renowned pop princess.

    Hey, this is fun!

    JVW (ae03d3)

  158. Yes. It’s a derivative of Elizabeth which was my great grandmother’s name.

    elissa (dda108)

  159. That’s the spirit, JVW!

    elissa (dda108)

  160. Colonel, if I say that Hitler was not responsible for the Reichstag fire (which is true, by the way), am I defending him? Am I saying that he’s innocent? Of that specific charge, yes, he is, but not in general.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  161. John Demjanjuk was innocent of the charge for which he was convicted and sentenced to death. He had an excellent alibi. He could not possibly have been killing Jews at Treblinka, when at that very time he was busy killing Jews at Sobibor. Obviously he couldn’t raise this alibi at his trial, hence the false conviction. But in declaring his innocence of that charge, I am hardly defending him, or declaring him innocent in general.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  162. (By the way, for the record I never trusted the evidence against Demjanjuk at his first trial, and regarded his conviction as unfortunate. I was not surprised when it turned out to have been wrong. But given what he was guilty of, I wouldn’t have been too sorry had he been executed for the wrong murders.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  163. A dead horse is being beaten. Why must we all watch?

    elissa (dda108)

  164. Here’s a picture of the crowd on the right side at the MLK 50th ann.

    I’d like to see the President’s eye view.

    Could you imagine being in the middle of that and accidentally saying “boy”? As in “Boy, my feet are ichy”.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  165. We waon’t stop till he’s turned into ‘tasajo’

    this is somewhat like one of the suspects in one of the JFK conspiracies, unearthed by the BBC, it turns out he was in prison on November 22nd, for drug smuggling charges.

    narciso (3fec35)

  166. Gasoline before, during and for over two decades ever since, milhouse.

    Colonel Haiku (fdf771)

  167. Clinton had the best line – describing the wingnut wack job world where it is easier to buy an AR-15 than it is to vote. The world according to regressive militant bigots (GOP).

    true (b17026)

  168. So you’re saying Bubba wants voting to require both a photo ID and a background check? Because that’s what’s actually “true”. Unless you live in some sort of bizarre fantasy-world based on the fever dreams of insular Hollywood screenwriters who have no idea how reality actually functions.

    PCachu (e072b7)

  169. When Clinton learns what the meaning of “is” is …. Did he get criminally convicted of perjury or only held in contempt by the court? Even then, it would have been indirect criminal contempt. He did lose his law license because of it. The perjury. In an attorney discipline proceeding independent of the sanctions imposed by the court.

    nk (875f57)

  170. Democrats. When they don’t use their mouths to lie, it is to give lewinskis.

    nk (875f57)

  171. Comment by true (b17026) — 8/29/2013 @ 9:52 am

    Why do lying left-wing trolls always name themselves things like “true?”

    It’s a dead give-away that whatever they wrote, isn’t.

    I saw there was a recent comment by someone named “true” on the sidebar, and I thought to myself, “I’ve got to see what kind of BS this loser is trafficking in.”

    Steve57 (713b70)

  172. Forget having to show ID or pass a background check. The headline should be, “Southerner Bill Clinton proposes reintroducing Jim Crow poll tax; raising it to $1,000.00 or more”

    Anyone ever buy a decent AR? Whether FFLs or not, sellers don’t let you have those things for free.

    Steve57 (713b70)

  173. Here’s an AR-15 dealer offering price: $799.99 – $1,049.99 link.

    A thousand dollars is a hurdle all by itself, but then there’s other hoops to go through.

    Here’s an obnoxious one –
    . All handguns must be transferred from an FFL dealer to the customer in the state of the customer’s residence.
    · Long guns can be purchased and transferred to a resident of any state in any state provided that the transfer is legal in both the purchaser’s state and the state in which the transfer is taking place.

    Imagine if you had to make a pilgramage back to your home state just to vote. That’s regressing back to the days of Herod.

    · Customers must complete the federal ATF F 4473 and pass the required Brady Act background check before a firearm can be transferred.

    The Form 4473 contains name, address, date of birth, government-issued photo ID, National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) background check transaction number, make/model/serial number of the firearm, and a short federal affidavit stating that the purchaser is eligible to purchase firearms under federal law. Lying on this form is a felony and can be punished by up to five years in prison in addition to fines, even if the transaction is simply denied by the NICS, although prosecutions are rare in the absence of another felony committed with the gun purchased.

    All State paperwork (in addition to the ATF F 4473) must be completed prior to the transfer of a firearm to the purchaser. All state or locally required WAITING PERIODS begin when the purchaser patronizes the FFL dealers place of business and completes the required Federal and State paperwork. Waiting periods DO NOT begin when the firearm is paid for on-line or when the firearm is shipped.

    Transfering that to voting, you would have to make the pilgramage back to State of residence, pay your $ 1K, prove you are a resident, show your State issued ID, submit to a criminal background check, then and only then you get to sit out the waiting period which varies depending on which DEMOCRAT controlled state you live in.

    Let’s say you happen to be a Republican or a Tea Party member. Your background check might be substantially longer depending on the scruples of Democrat appointed bureaucrats. Do you belong to a church? Maybe they’ll delve into the content of your pastor’s sermons before you are allowed to vote.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  174. Comment by Milhouse (3d0df0) — 8/28/2013 @ 9:59 pm

    166.(By the way, for the record I never trusted the evidence against Demjanjuk at his first trial, and regarded his conviction as unfortunate. I was not surprised when it turned out to have been wrong.

    They never decided it was wrong. It’s not likely to have been wrong. Demjanjuk just used a false name at first with the Nazis, using his mother’s maiden name, Marchenko, until he was found out and forced to get another ID card with his real last name.

    What indication was there that Ivan Marchenko was a different person?

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  175. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/28/2013 @ 9:34 pm

    He want to ignore the trends in school spending versus school enrollment over the past 50 years in the belief that continuing to throw more dollars at a problem

    This is one place he may have expnading ona talking point.

    He may be so stuck on the idea that more spending equal better schools and also the fact that teacher’s unions always complain about not enough money being available, that he may not realize they are actually spending more money on failing schools.

    will somehow miraculously solve a problem that hasn’t been solved by throwing money at it in the past. Nevertheless, we have had three presidents oppose school choice since MLK’s speech, Carter, Clinton and Obama. For some reason they are bound and determined to keep minority kids in failing schools even when they could choose better ones, because the children are the future or something.

    Tough to square with MLK’s vision, isn’t it.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  176. Clinton had the best line – describing the wingnut wack job world where it is easier to buy an AR-15 than it is to vote. The world according to regressive militant bigots (GOP).

    Comment by true (b17026) — 8/29/2013 @ 9:52 am

    The snarky rejoiner would be to point out that it is pretty common for elected Democrats to sell their vote. Pretty unusual for Bill to admit it in public though.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  177. “Gasoline before, during and for over two decades ever since, milhouse.”

    Colonel – But according to the Milhouse theory of racial incitement which exists only in his head, Sharpton only contributed to the violence if he was physically present in Crown Heights.

    What part of that is so hard for you to understand? His incendiary anti-semitic remarks leading up to the incident had absolutely zip, zero, nada, no influence on the thinking of the black community because Milhouse clearly can read minds.

    Please just bow down and defer to the superior hyperliteralism, appeals to authority and overall humorlessness we have come to expect from Milhouse.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  178. anyone else notice how pissed off the President sounded?
    He has an angry way of delivering a speech.

    Why is so pissed off all the time?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  179. 120. Comment by Milhouse (3d0df0) — 8/28/2013 @ 5:31 pm

    Nobody disputes that Sharpton was welcome at this event; that’s precisely the point — any event at which he is welcome is a despicable event that no decent person should have attended.

    Welcome might be OK, if a lot of other people are invited. Where he gets a starring role I would say.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  180. Comment by Milhouse (3d0df0) — 8/28/2013 @ 5:41 pm

    Yankel was stabbed right at the beginning of the riot.

    He was stabbed a second time in the hospital, in my opinion, but that was covered up by Kings County Hospital, the newspaper Newsday (which had a photograph of his back before he was tajken to the hospital) and others including Charles Hynes’ office.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  181. Didn’t Yankel Rosenbaum exit the subway?

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  182. Comment by Milhouse (3d0df0) — 8/28/2013 @ 9:57 pm

    John Demjanjuk was innocent of the charge for which he was convicted and sentenced to death. He had an excellent alibi. He could not possibly have been killing Jews at Treblinka, when at that very time he was busy killing Jews at Sobibor.

    There’s nothing I heard that his time at the two death camps overlapped. He was at Sobibor at a later date than he had been accused of being at Treblinka I understood.

    His lawyers made it appear like there was no possibility he could have use dthe name Marchenko earlier, like he wasn’t taken any kind of precautions that the Nazis would lose the war.

    Demjanjuk also killed a Jew by running him oover with his truck while he was working for the Americans in 1947. It was chalked up as an accident.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  183. Sammy, did you live in New York at the time of the Crown Heights riots? Do you have any first hand knowledge of it?

    elissa (fdb36e)

  184. Who knew that the former head of the National Rifle Association led the Hollywood contingent at the 1963 March on Washington. Grin.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100232894/the-day-hollywood-joined-the-march-on-washington-led-by-charlton-cold-dead-hands-heston/

    elissa (fdb36e)

  185. I lived in New York, but don’t have first hand knowledge. But I did some research later.

    I read the Girgente Report issued in 1993, as well as the DA’s report later on the prosecution, which was printed in the JEWISH PRESS.

    I don’t think anybody, even Yankel Rosenbaum’s family, realizes what really happened to him.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  186. 177. Here’s an AR-15 dealer offering price: $799.99 – $1,049.99 …

    Comment by papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/29/2013 @ 11:12 am

    True, you can get ARs for less than a grand. SKSs aren’t assault rifles, and you can’t get them for $79.99 like you could about 10 years or so ago when cheap (but very nice) Yugoslav army surplus rifles went on the market.

    But can you imagine the screeching if this country followed Bill Clinton’s advice and made voting as easy as buying an AR-15.

    The point is, Clinton and Obama are con men. They’re not appealing to people who know what they’re saying is complete BS. They’re appealing to ignoramuses like true (short for true-believer, obviously). Idiots that don’t know anything, and can’t think for themselves.

    Steve57 (713b70)

  187. The DA’s office had a really bad excuse, or rather accepted a phony excuse, from the newspaper Newsday for not making available the photographs other photographer took.

    On this question, Charles Hynes wrote:

    « Did Assistant District Attorneys Kolatch or Leeper talk to a photographer from Newsday who present on the scene when Yankel Rosenbaum
    identified Lemrick Nelson?

    The District Attorney’s office attempted to contact the Newsday photographer, John Paraskevas, but was told by Newsday that he was
    unavailable. The prosecutors were also advised by Newsday that its photographer did not hear anything that was said by Yankel Rosenbaum
    because he was concentrating on making spot news photographs. Moreover, contrary to the State Report, which is incorrect, the prosecutors did
    obtain and examine photographs taken by the Newsday photographer. There were no photographs of John Anderson, a defense witness who claimed in
    testimony that he had been brought by police to Yankel Rosenbaum for identification, and not identified, or of any other identifiable persons. » – Hynes reply printed in the Jewish Press in 1993.

    So here we have a contradiction. But I notice that Hynes did not say they saw ALL the photographs. I maintain that some of these photographs must have been of Yankel Rosenbaum’s back, and they would show that at that time he had only one deep stab wound – on his right side, and he did not yet have the stab wound on his left side that later killed him.

    The defense attorney, Arthur Lewis, knew that, but couldn’t use that but he kepy on tgrying to make a defense that doctors had failed to save his life. Legally, this was no defense, if Lemrick Nelson had inflicted all the wounds.

    « For example, a photographer from Newsday was at the scene. He took photographs of Yankel Rosenbaum lying on the hood of the car. According
    to the District Attorney’s office, they called Newsday to try to interview the photographer. They were told that the photographer was
    “unavailable” and that, if interviewed, the photographer would say he was busy taking pictures and did not see or hear anything. No further efforts were made by the Police Department of the District Attorney’s
    office to interview the photographer or examine the pictures he took at the scene. »

    – Girgente Report on the Disturbances in Crown Heights, Vol. II (about the investigation into the death of Yankel Rosenbaum and the resulting
    prosecution – Vol. I is the riot) page 68.

    Former Mayor David Dinkins was questioned in a deposition in a lawsuit against the city, August 24, 1993 I think.

    He saw Yankel Rosenbaum in the hospital (not because he went to see him – he went to see the Cato children but once there he was sort of pushed into seeing yankel rosenbaukm too)

    « Q. Can you tell us what occurred when you entered the room?

    A. What I remember fairly clearly is that there was a physician present who assured us that Yankel Rosenbaum was going to be all right. I know I said things to him. I cannot really say whether or not he answered. I honest to God don’t know. Except that he was lucid. He knew what we were saying to him, as I expressed my sorrow at what happened to him. It was just such a tragedy. And keep in mind at that point we didn’t know he
    was going to die, but it was still such a tragedy to have been struck in that fashion. And I was just shocked later to learn that he had died, as
    you doubtless know, may have learned, that there was more than one wound. And although te ambulance attendants had noted, I’m told, that
    there were at least two wounds, the hospital people apparently, I say apparently, I don’t know, saw only one. And had they seen the others, he might be with us today. »

    Notice how careful David Dinkins was. I think he maybe even suspected the truth or he knows there is something wrong here.

    And notice how he says he doesn’t know if Yankel Rosenbaum answered him, but he knows he was
    lucid. How could know he was lucid, if he didn’t answer him in some way?

    Now Dinkins says that the ambulance attendants reported more than one wound. But when? Kings County Hospital is a hospital where records

    have been altered and EMS people have been bribed.

    A bit about EMS people being bribed:

    There was a story in the Wednesday, August 10, 1994 New York Post about that. The headline is SCANDAL of 911 LEGAL SHARKS. But it’s all about
    ONE hospital – that hospital – Kings County Medical Center. The headline on page 4 goes:

    « Hospital, EMS crews in bed
    with ambulance chasers

    Medics get
    illegal
    payoffs
    to ‘steer’
    injury cases »

    It says the Health and Hospiatls Corporation has launched a confidential investigation of this and a partner in one of Manhattan’s personal
    injury firms is quoted as saying:

    « It’s gone so far as to have EMS people, orderlies, nurses and tow truck operators getting paid off by lawyers trying to sign up injured
    clients. »

    – a partner in one of Manhattan’s top personal-injury firms as quoted on page 4 of the Wednesday, August 10, 1994 New York Post.

    Now Dr. Kildare Clark, the associate medical director of the emergency room, is also quoted in that article. He’s the person who broke the story to Newsday of the “negligence” that killed
    Yankel Rosenbaum – negligence that is, in the sense of not noticing a second wound – a totally absurd proposition.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  188. I meant even if you lowered the price of voting from $1K to the $80 it used to take to buy an SKS, since the Obamabots can’t tell an SKS from an AR from a hot rock, can you imagine the screeching?

    Apparently idjits like true think we right-wing knuckle dragging gun nuts just wander out into the woods and pluck our AR-15s off the assault weapon trees. No ID, no background checks, no money.

    Unlike the huge burdens we put on people trying to vote.

    Steve57 (713b70)

  189. Yankel rtosenbaum was stabbed (the first time) at about 11:20 PM, Monday August 19, 1991.

    Tell me. . .is it really possible for someone’s vital signs to be correct at say 12:40 A.M. – and really later – and then for his left lung to be filled with blood sometime after 1 A.M. and for no
    injury to have been inflicted in the meantime?

    (There’s even a slightly muddled chronology as to when his signs were good and when they were bad
    or even the exact time Dinkins and his party were in the room – the second stabbing had to be after that.)

    Another citation:

    « Dr. [Pamela] Damian [the 40-year old third-year resident blamed for letting Yankel Rosenbaum die – the senior one of two there] said that accounts of the night Mr. Rosenbaum died were inaccurate but that she would not provide details while investigations of the Rosenbaum case were under way. “I have nothing to hide,” she said. “I am prepared to tell the truth to everyone.

    Anne Burton, a spokeswoman for the Health Science Center, declined to comment on Dr. Damian, also citing the investigations as well as the
    university’s rules on cofidentiality. »

    – article by John Barbanel on page B3, continued from page B1, of the Friday, September 27, 1991 New York Times.

    Now there was at least one inaccuracy about her orginally, claiming taht
    she had been dropped from two programs when it was really only one but
    she left the other one “for the stated reason of pregenancy”

    So she disputed something about the chronology – something about it. I don’t think she and the other persona and everybody else missed a wound
    – it wasn’t there then. And there must be some other details wrong about when and how things were discovered.

    I think the chronology that was produced for the State Health Department was muddled. One of the persons involved told the New York Times it was
    somewhat wrong.

    And I think I can tell you HOW it must have been wrong. They stretched out the length of time from when doctors first noticed a problem to when
    he died, because if the truth were known, it would sound even more incredible than what they said later.

    I don’t have the exact time of David Dinkins’ visit but i think Dinkins knew there was an important “secret” and therefore he knew that Yankel Rosenbaum’s condition would be a controversial thing and he’s vague about it.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  190. It is scientifically absurd for things to
    have been missed the way they claim unless everybody there was incompetent and unobservant to a degree that probably doesn’t exist on earth.

    When second and third year residents reported hearing normal breathing sounds in Yankel Rosenbaum’s chest at 12:40 A.M. in the wee hours of Tuesday, August 20, 1991, the reason is because
    there *were* normal breathing sounds then, and any reports or statements that Yankel Rosenbaum had TWO deep chest wounds when he arroved at the hospital at 11:45, approximately half an hour after being stabbed, are forgeries or lies.

    In fact, from the speed of death and deterioration after his condition was noticed sometime after 1 A.M, it’s probably just plain impossible his fatal wound was inflicted around
    11:15 P.M. Monday night.

    Even lying about his state of consciousness
    before 1 A.M. won’t explain that.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  191. Even if a whole bunch of people could miss a wound, why would he start bleeding only two hours later, and then rapidly decline?

    No, Kings County Hospital did NOT miss his other big wound – he was stabbed a second time
    in the hospital shortly after David Dinkins visited him.

    Lemrick Nelson knew this (his defense in the first trial in a way hinted at this, but couldn’t hint too much – saying the hospital botched the job was ruled legally irrelevant. I think the lawyer persisted because he knew there was a real fact that could help him)

    So did other people including the newspaper Newsday, whose photographer John Paraskevas,
    was on the street at the time and quite possibly took photographs of Yankel Rosenbaum’s back. I would suspect that if we could look at ALL of
    those pictures, or if he would testify, we would would find out that, at the time he was taken into the ambulance, he had only ONE large stab wound in his back

    (The two ambulanace workers, who said he had two wounds at the time, are among the people who committed perjury. Kings County Hospital
    was a hospital where records were altered and EMS people bribed by lawyers to ‘steer’ injury cases, so it’s not too far fetched to think they were
    bribed to back up the story of a second stab wound on the street).

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  192. Make that about 1 hour and 45 minutes after his stabbing by Lemrick Nelson.

    Lemrick Nelson was part of a gang called the “Lo Lives”

    They may not have known that Lemrick Nelson had already been idnetified by Yankel Rosenbau as his stabber – or maybe they did.

    By the way, I don’t think the accident was an accident either. It was caused by another car that crashed into the car driven by the Jewish driver in the 3 car procession of the Lubavicher Rebbe

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  193. There were enough people experienced in insurance fraud who caused accidents to innocent drivers, that the injury and death of the Cato children who were playing on the sidewalk could have been planned in advance. Some people are good at billiards, why not this?

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  194. “No, Kings County Hospital did NOT miss his other big wound – he was stabbed a second time”

    Prince Bandar strikes again!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  195. “Apparently idjits like true think we right-wing knuckle dragging gun nuts just wander out into the woods and pluck our AR-15s off the assault weapon trees.”

    Steve57 – I grow my own from heritage seed. No genetically modified AR-15s for this wingnut.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  196. daley, I actually grow my ARs in a lab using embryonic stem cells since no assault weapons trees grow around here.

    In addition to being a rabid gun nut I’m also a lying hypocritical Christofascist when it comes to abortion.

    It’s like true knows me.

    Steve57 (713b70)

  197. These are some tidbits from an excellent essay titled “Degrading the Dream” that can be found today at Politico.

    Every mass movement in America, the philosopher Eric Hoffer once wrote, becomes a racket in the end.
    And he hadn’t even witnessed the full course of the civil rights movement. If the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington is a time for taking stock, the score is clear. The Dream was a glorious triumph, changing America forever and making it more just. The contemporary civil rights movement, partly as a consequence, is an intellectually exhausted disgrace.
    ….

    If there were genuinely something consequential at stake, as in the fight against segregation of the mid-20th century, it would be a disaster for the country that Al Sharpton is so prominent.
    But that fight is won, no matter how loath King’s self-appointed heirs are to admit it. At his speech at the Mall, Sharpton said Jim Crow has been vanquished, but now the struggle must go on against James Crow Jr., ESQ. The old Jim Crow knocked down protesters with high-pressure fire hoses; the new Jim Crow asks everyone to bring a photo ID when they vote. The apple has fallen very far from the tree.

    Tifosa, especially should go read the whole thing.

    elissa (fdb36e)

  198. What indication was there that Ivan Marchenko was a different person?

    Wasn’t he at Sobibor during the same period that the real Ivan was at Treblinka?

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  199. Colonel – But according to the Milhouse theory of racial incitement which exists only in his head, Sharpton only contributed to the violence if he was physically present in Crown Heights.

    Not necessarily physically present, but at least specifically addressing that situation and whipping up those rioters, as Gary Byrd and his news reporter did. Otherwise you end up diffusing the blame among every antisemite who has ever opened his mouth for the past 50 years.

    What part of that is so hard for you to understand? His incendiary anti-semitic remarks leading up to the incident had absolutely zip, zero, nada, no influence on the thinking of the black community because Milhouse clearly can read minds.

    How were his remarks more significant than those of every other antisemite in America? You could blame them all for contributing to a general atmosphere of antisemitism. But to blame a specific person for a specific incident you need to find a nexus between them, and that nexus didn’t exist between Sharpton and the CH pogrom until it had been going for several hours.

    It’s not as if the local blacks in CH didn’t already hate Jews, and Sharpton somehow changed that. He didn’t create the antisemitism, and he didn’t significantly increase it, he just played to it. So his responsibility for that fire begins when he became aware of it and started stoking it.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  200. Insider knowledge seems to be a unique qualifier for epwj and Shecky Milhouse, Daley…

    Colonel Haiku (1011ad)

  201. He was stabbed a second time in the hospital, in my opinion, but that was covered up by Kings County Hospital, the newspaper Newsday (which had a photograph of his back before he was tajken to the hospital)

    That’s news to me. They had a photo of his naked back, and it didn’t show the second wound?! Surely Norman would have discovered that in the course of his lawsuit.

    Didn’t Yankel Rosenbaum exit the subway?

    No. He left the apartment where he was staying, to get a haircut, with no idea that anything was happening, and was almost immediately surrounded and attacked.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  202. “True” is also “fact” who was also “Dad” who is a drooling imbecile. All 18 of their personalities will be back.

    JD (efc5b7)

  203. I don’t think anybody, even Yankel Rosenbaum’s family, realizes what really happened to him.

    If you have real information, such as the Newsday photo you referred to, that changes the picture they have of what happened, it would have been nice of you to forward it to Norman during his lawsuit against the hospital. In fact it would still be a good idea, they’d still like to know. If you have real data, not just speculation, email me and I’ll forward it.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  204. photographer John Paraskevas,
    was on the street at the time and quite possibly took photographs of Yankel Rosenbaum’s back.

    Ah. You never saw this photo and don’t know whether it exists, but you think he “quite possibly” took it. That’s not information, it’s pure guesswork. Not useful. But next time I see Norman I’ll ask him about it.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  205. By the way, I don’t think the accident was an accident either. It was caused by another car that crashed into the car driven by the Jewish driver in the 3 car procession of the Lubavicher Rebbe.

    There were enough people experienced in insurance fraud who caused accidents to innocent drivers, that the injury and death of the Cato children who were playing on the sidewalk could have been planned in advance. Some people are good at billiards, why not this?

    Hang on. It’s my understanding that the car that hit Lifsh, causing him to lose control of his car, had the green light. That Lifsh ran the red, thinking he had the right of way because he was part of a police-escorted group of cars. Isn’t that true? If so, it couldn’t have been planned. They wouldn’t have known that he’d make that mistake.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  206. Insider knowledge seems to be a unique qualifier for epwj and Shecky Milhouse, Daley…

    Except that in this case I actually do have some inside knowledge; not first-hand, but second- and third-hand, from people who were directly involved and people who spoke to them. Things that were never published anywhere, so no amount of research will discover them.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  207. Except that in this case I actually do have some inside knowledge; not first-hand, but second- and third-hand, from people who were directly involved and people who spoke to them. Things that were never published anywhere, so no amount of research will discover them.

    And yet your judgement is clouded by moral relativism. So much for that.

    I saw James Brown perform at the L.A. Sports Arena in the late 70’s and at the end of his performance, a young Al Sharpton stood on stage, holding Brown’s cape as he waited for Brown to complete his histrionics. I haven’t let that cloud my judgement. Al Sharpton is a race-baiting, race hustler who is responsible for several deaths, millions of dollars in property damage, enriching himself through shakedowns and fueling the flames of racial hatred and intolerance. He has no redeeming social value and is undeserving of any slack or benefit of doubt.

    Colonel Haiku (fec36a)

  208. And yet your judgement is clouded by moral relativism. So much for that.

    What moral relativism? What are you on? When have I ever shown signs of that?

    Al Sharpton is a race-baiting, race hustler who is responsible for several deaths, millions of dollars in property damage, enriching himself through shakedowns and fueling the flames of racial hatred and intolerance. He has no redeeming social value and is undeserving of any slack or benefit of doubt.

    I agree with every word of that. Did you think that I wouldn’t?! But that doesn’t make him guilty of every crime that has ever been committed in the history of the world. Hard as it is to imagine, bad things occasionally happen in this city even without his involvement. Not for his lack of trying, of course, but there are other bad people, and they don’t always consult him before doing bad things. He doesn’t have a monopoly.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  209. Sammy, the reason I never believed in the ID card that was the key piece of evidence against Demjanjuk at his first trial, was that it was supplied by the KGB, and nothing from that source can possibly be considered reliable evidence. The KGB certainly had the technology and resources to forge such a card, and was certainly evil enough to be capable of doing so, therefore it was dangerous to assume it had not done so.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  210. “How were his remarks more significant than those of every other antisemite in America? You could blame them all for contributing to a general atmosphere of antisemitism.”

    Milhouse – Your strawmen are nowhere close in quality to Obama’s. Why would black’s in Crown Heights care about what an anti-semite in California said if they didn’t hear them. You are a moron who just doesn’t want to concede a point.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  211. Via Twitchy:
    David Burge @iowahawkblog

    1963: you can’t have that job because you’re black. 2013: you can’t be black because you have that job. #SenatorTimScott

    MD in Philly (from a different computer and location) (226c84)

  212. You are such a lucky man to have Jan Schakowsky as your congressperson daley. Busy as she is in your district she still found the time to go downtown to the big Rock ‘n Roll McDonalds today to lead the wage protest where she could be seen by the reporters and photographed.

    Congressman Jan Schakowsky came out to lead the protesters in a march around the block.

    “They are among thousands and thousands of low-wage workers around the country, who have a really reasonable and simple request, and that is that they be paid a living wage,” she said. “They are treated very badly by their employers. They cannot make ends meet.”

    What a caring and gentle soul she is.

    elissa (fdb36e)

  213. Are they trying to drive all jobs out of Chicago, make it the Abyss of London’s imaginings?

    narciso (3fec35)

  214. Once upon a time no one thought of making a living wage as low person at a fast food joint.

    An intro job at a fast food joint was a beginning job for a teen wanting to make some money for college, etc., or the beginning for someone who wanted to work hard and move up the ladder.

    Maybe the manager at the McDonald’s could calculate his costs for giving all of his workers a “living wage”, determine how much he would need to sell burgers for to make that, and present one and the bill to the Congressman.

    MD in Philly (from a different computer and location) (226c84)

  215. Minimum wage is not the stuff of teenagers. Don’t know what it was in the past, but it ain’t it now.

    marc (e27868)

  216. Narciso@217- the “nationwide strike of fast food workers” was an SEIU astroturf operation. It got some press this morning but nothing much since then. I’m assuming therefore that it was kind of a nationwide bust.

    elissa (fdb36e)

  217. Yes, of course, elissa, but Mrs Robert Creamer, yes that one, didn’t intend it that way,

    narciso (3fec35)

  218. 217. Well, if its a race, they’re gonna lose.

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/o-sweet-saint-o-129.html

    Look for the turn onto the final stretch by the end of October. Serious bond angst this way comes.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  219. Comment by Milhouse (3d0df0) — 8/29/2013 @ 3:21 pm

    But next time I see Norman I’ll ask him about it

    You have to ask him about asking to see all his photographs from that night and to talk to the photographer.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  220. “I agree with every word of that. Did you think that I wouldn’t?! But that doesn’t make him guilty of every crime that has ever been committed in the history of the world.”

    Milhouse – What the heck kind of argument is that?

    Who on this thread except you has even dreamed Sharpton might be accused of let alone be guilty of every crime in the history of the world?

    Who except you has raised an argument about people in New York being affected by by anti-semites elsewhere in the country.

    Instead of addressing the points raised by other commenters you introduce arguments made by nobody but yourself and proceed to counter them as if you were actually on topic rather than erecting strawmen and torching them. It’s a frequent tactic of yours.

    You have not disputed Rev. Al Sharpton was inciting anti-semitism among blacks in New York immediately before and during the Crown Heights riots. You merely prefer to downplay his influence on the black community for some reason in deference to the 10,000 watt blowtorch of Percy Sutton’s Harlem based WLIB which only broadcast during daylight hours at that point.

    What time was Yankel stabbed again?

    You are a despicable man. You have presented no unique insight into the black community to come to the iron clad conclusion you have presented on this thread. Instead you raise meaningless distractions.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  221. Minimum wage is not the stuff of teenagers. Don’t know what it was in the past, but it ain’t it now.
    Comment by marc (e27868) — 8/29/2013 @ 6:36 pm

    Not sure what you mean, unless it is to say that the economy is so bad that there aren’t any better jobs available than minimum wage, which may be true, but that’s another problem.
    I think it was $1.65/hr or so that I first worked helping out in a hardware store, sweeping, cleaning the employee bathroom, unloading trucks with supplies (Sakrete in August was always a bummer).

    But I think I did see something at PowerLine the other day about, when adjusted for cost of living, etc., that a minimum wage worker in 1967 or so was better off than many working full time today.

    But if you increase the overhead for making burgers and fries the costs will go up even more,
    and I think the prices are already too high.

    MD in Philly (from a different computer and location) (226c84)

  222. And then sales will drop and workers will have their hours cut even more or will be fired.
    But union bosses will still get their share.

    MD in Philly (from a different computer and location) (226c84)

  223. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/29/2013 @ 8:24 pm

    What time was Yankel stabbed again?

    The car accident was around 8:20 PM. There is a dispute about the light, with the car’s occupants saying it was yellow, and witnesses claiming it was red. Witnesses (some of them) even gave a 65 mph speed for the car – which wasn’t travelling alone. Others gave 25 mph. There seems to have been some effort by various people to give as high a speed as possible. The attack on Yankel Rosenbaum took place at about 11:20 pm. There was a big effort to spread false rumors about the accident.

    Sammy Finkelman (6c9102)

  224. Thanks for the link and factual verification, narciso.

    Forget the nonsense about wanting to help the middle class, even the “lower than middle” class is doing more poorly.

    But somehow by the flat screen TV’s you wouldn’t think so.

    Go figure…

    MD in Philly (from a different computer and location) (226c84)

  225. #74 whodathunkit
    Tim Scott was invited and declined.
    That makes Boehner, Cantor, Bush 41, 43, Jeb, and Tim Scott, AT LEAST.
    Sort of destroys TehNarrative lies “reported” on Twitchy, townhall, Washington Examiner, NYDailyNews, FoxNews, redpoliticsalert, breitbartdotcom… you know, your sources :)

    tifosa (9c79f9)

  226. oh my. John McCain too.

    tifosa (9c79f9)

  227. How’s your research on Sharpton coming along, tifosa? Is your stomach starting to turn? Cornel West came out with a hum dinger piece which you should read. Here it is. He’s not so keen on your “renowned civil rights leader” either.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/cornel-west-attacks-al-sharpton-bonafide-house-negro-of-the-obama-plantation/

    elissa (1a5407)

  228. You’re saying Sharpton is NOT a renowned leader in the black and civil rights communities?

    tifosa (9c79f9)

  229. A review of the bidding on this thread reveals that your claim has already been discussed. Bless your heart.

    elissa (1a5407)

  230. I’m just responding to you elissa. Thanks for the sentiment.

    tifosa (9c79f9)

  231. btw, just a guess on my part, but chances are good that “the bidding on this thread” is not representative of either demographic I named.

    tifosa (9c79f9)

  232. tifosa, Al Sharpton is a renowned con artist, inciter of riots and accessory to murder before the fact, and anti-semite.

    SPQR (768505)

  233. Joe Biden is a renowned foreign policy expert.
    John Kerry is a renowned voice of persuasion.
    Samantha Power is a renowned practitioner of subtle and clever diplomacy.
    Chuck Hagel is a renowned administrator known for his acumen and competence.

    JVW (23867e)

  234. re·nowned
    1.known or talked about by many people; famous.
    civ·il rights
    1. the rights of citizens to political and
    social freedom and equality
    lead·er
    1. the person who leads or commands a group,
    organization, or country.

    tifosa (9c79f9)

  235. AGITATOR
    : one that agitates: as
    a : one who stirs up public feeling on controversial issues

    Synonyms
    demagogue (also demagog), exciter, firebrand, fomenter, incendiary, inciter, instigator, kindler, provocateur, rabble-rouser

    Steve57 (713b70)

  236. Tifosa is a renowned imbecile.

    JD (59acf6)

  237. 230. Right, because “invited to attend and be mocked (possibly lynched, if Sharpton manages to get his mojo back)” is exactly the same as “invited to speak and be heard”. (Since you seem impaired in this regard, I’ll clarify: yes, that’s sarcasm.)

    Are you seriously trying to claim that someone who really should be up front, speaking to the group, must instead be content to just sit back and nod sagely as the troubles of the world are wrongly heaped on their shoulders? Because if that’s the case, I’d say you haven’t yet received enough #NewTone #Civility.

    PCachu (e072b7)

  238. Which of those named was NOT invited to speak?

    tifosa (9c79f9)

  239. Give it up, tifosa. Now that lovey and tye have shown up, you don’t stand a one-legged man’s chance in an a**-kicking contest to shine as the diva troll here, anymore.

    nk (875f57)

  240. Is tifosa mental? That is not a rhetorical question.

    JD (5c1832)

  241. 239.re·nowned
    ….
    Comment by tifosa (9c79f9) — 8/30/2013 @ 6:23 pm

    tifosa, do look up the definition of notorious as well, oh Rose of Trolly.

    nk (875f57)

  242. @ 95 Elissa, Sharpton’s a renowned civil rights leader.

    Comment by tifosa (7ba941) — 8/28/2013 @ 4:56 pm

    This assertion is a falsehood because a civil rights leader unites people regardless of skin color, in common cause with a moral purpose. Mr. Sharpton has done the opposite.

    Rev. Martin L King Jr is a Civil Rights leader and his moral and rational message is respected by all intelligent people.

    Mr. A. Sharpton is not a Civil Rights leader and his often immoral acts and irrational claims are despised by all intelligent people.

    (I just linked to one such act, but there are many to choose from)

    @ 233 You’re saying Sharpton is NOT a renowned leader in the black and civil rights communities?

    Comment by tifosa (9c79f9) — 8/30/2013 @ 5:45 pm

    A more meaningful question (and more relevant in the context of civil rights) is whether Sharpton is a respected civil rights leader amongst all human beings. If that answer is no, then his status as a Civil Rights leader fails and at best, he can claim a tribal honor of some sort.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)

  243. Your exploration of “leadership” by comparing the actions and words of MLK and Al Sharpton with respect both to civil rights and human rights was very well done. Tifosa still won’t “get” it, unfortunately, but it was a valiant effort on your part, Pons Asinorum.

    elissa (1a5407)

  244. Why thank you Elissa, that is most kind of you. You and others have made numerous logical arguments that are sound and quite rational. Thought I would throw in my two-bits (lol).

    Not sure about Tifosa, maybe she will get it sometime in the future. Maybe not, her choice.

    In the end though, I am sure glad that I am not a liberal — their moral codes have failed because they are not moral in practice. Mr. Sharpton is an excellent example of this, and he is not even the tip of the iceberg. Liberals judge people by the color of their skin; almost every political construct has a racial component. Their racist policies have destroyed entire generations Americans. I would hate to be part of such a wretched philosophy (and then having to defend it, which necessitates a certain need to appeal to the irrational.)

    JD said it perfectly:

    Colorblind is racist.

    That is so ironic, it is just a perfect summation of liberal (irrational) thought.

    Pons Asinorum (8ce71a)


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