Patterico's Pontifications

I voted.

Patterico (a40f0d) — 8/17/2013 @ 11:18 am

as did I… two more unemployed peeps is my vote. The work ahead is too important to accept or forgive such incompetence.

Colonel Haiku (f013c5) — 8/17/2013 @ 12:10 pm

Only two, we need more choices.

narciso (3fec35) — 8/17/2013 @ 12:22 pm

one, two… a thousand Priebuses!

Colonel Haiku (f013c5) — 8/17/2013 @ 12:30 pm

The r.n.c. is a cesspool of incompetence.

mg (31009b) — 8/17/2013 @ 1:15 pm

Phony scandal!!!!!!!!!!!11ty!!!!!!!

daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/17/2013 @ 1:21 pm

It came as quite a surprise to the RNC when Gloria Alred popped up with Meg Whitman’s illegal alien nanny.

The rest of us saw an independently wealthy, political dilettante from California, so of course she hires illegals. Illegals are mowing her lawn, washing her car, cleaning her windows, breast feeding her kids,,fixing her roof, clearing the clog in her drain.
In other words the worst sort of crony capitalist.

She would have been in favor of the whole suite of stringent global warming dictates. She would have held hands at a press conference with Arnold Schwarzeneggar on one side and Al Gore on the other. If she had won.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/17/2013 @ 1:41 pm

The r.n.c. is a cesspool of incompetence.

Comment by mg (31009b) — 8/17/2013

they are an active partner in the bankruptcy of this country in more ways than financial

they need to go the way of the dodo

Dustin (dda3d6) — 8/17/2013 @ 1:58 pm

I would hope your average hispanic would have more self-respect than to vote for republicans

not that they should vote for the fascists

but c’mon

happyfeet (8ce051) — 8/17/2013 @ 2:17 pm

Didn’t the RNC walk that comment back and say that they were misquoted?

Charles (491f81) — 8/17/2013 @ 2:24 pm

Linky to Ace of Spades HQ where they break that the RNC didn’t say the quote.
http://minx.cc/?post=342564

Charles (491f81) — 8/17/2013 @ 2:27 pm

8.

The r.n.c. is a cesspool of incompetence.

Comment by mg (31009b) — 8/17/2013

they are an active partner in the bankruptcy of this country in more ways than financial

they need to go the way of the dodo

Comment by Dustin (dda3d6) — 8/17/2013 @ 1:58 pm

Illinois state politics goes nationwide. Nobody is even trying to hide it.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008-03-23/news/0803220254_1_illinois-sen-peter-fitzgerald-combine

The GOP establishment is OK with being the junior members of the combine.

Steve57 (d3be09) — 8/17/2013 @ 2:35 pm

A better description would be “impractical.” There are racist and/or horrific views on immigration, but Romney’s take was just unlikely to be useful.

Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 8/17/2013 @ 4:31 pm

The rest of us saw an independently wealthy, political dilettante from California, so of course she hires illegals

Every person living in California hires illegals to one degree or another.

Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 8/17/2013 @ 4:35 pm

Every person living in California hires illegals to one degree or another.

Lucky thing there’s no law against that. Wait.
Is there a law against that?

And if there isn’t. Wow. Ain’t that a miracle.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/17/2013 @ 5:23 pm

Dustin, The republican party should be renamed the dodo party.

mg (31009b) — 8/17/2013 @ 5:28 pm

7. …The rest of us saw an independently wealthy, political dilettante from California, so of course she hires illegals. Illegals are mowing her lawn, washing her car, cleaning her windows, breast feeding her kids,,fixing her roof, clearing the clog in her drain.
In other words the worst sort of crony capitalist.

Comment by papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/17/2013 @ 1:41 pm

I’ll fix this part of your comment for you:

In other words ~~the worst sort of crony capitalist~~ she did all she was legally allowed to do to verify employment.

Per the I-9 instructions:

http://jobs.irs.gov/downloads/scheduler/I-9EmploymentEligibilityVerification.pdf

Anti-Discrimination Notice.
It is illegal to discriminate against any individual (other than an alien not authorized to work in the United States) in hiring, discharging, or recruiting or referring for a fee because of that individual’s national origin or citizenship status.
It is illegal to discriminate against work-authorized individuals. Employers CANNOT
specify which document(s) they will accept from an employee. The refusal to hire an individual because the documents presented have a future expiration date may also
constitute illegal discrimination. For more information, call the Office of Special Counsel for Immigration Related Unfair Employment Practices at 1-800-255-8155

Later the employer has to attest to this:

CERTIFICATION: I attest, under penalty of perjury, that I have examined the document(s) presented by the above-named employee, that the above-listed document(s) appear to be genuine and to relate to the employee named…and that to the best of my knowledge the employee is authorized to work in the United States.

Whatever Whitman’s faults, when a prospective employee provides documents to verify the employee can legally accept work in this country the employer is required to accept those documents if they appear genuine. The employer can’t ask for more or different documents. If Whitman had attempted to do any more to verify that housekeeper’s authorization to work in this country she would have committed discrimination.

All the Whitman case proved was the Allred’s client, the illegal alien, had in addition to being in this country committed at least one and maybe two felonies.

The I-9 Instructions/form also says this:

I am aware that federal law provides for imprisonment and/or fines for false statements or use of false documents in connection with the completion of this form.

When the housekeeper checked whichever of the blocks she did to claim she could legally work in this country she committed perjury. When she presented her fake documents she committed fraud. I believe those are two separate crimes, and either one is a felony.

So Whitman didn’t commit a crime. Her housekeeper went on TV, on the advice of her lawyer Gloria Allred, and announced to the world she had committed felonies. And Allred produced a letter from the SS administration saying that the SSN her client provided the Whitmans didn’t match their records. Which was supposedly evidence against the Whitmans. In reality it was evidence of the crimes her client committed to work in this country.

How Gloria Allred still has a law license I don’t know. How that housekeeper is still in the country I don’t know.

What I do know is that neither the IRS or the SSA ever follow up on the perjuries and document fraud illegal aliens commit. The DoJ does follow up with a vengeance if an employer is “overzealous” in trying to verify someone’s legal eligibility to work in the US.

Which is what makes Rubio’s claim, and the claims of the rest of the Gang of Eight, that his immigration reform isn’t an amnesty such a monumental farce. It isn’t just one amnesty, it’s several rolled into one. All the crimes illegal aliens committed in order get here illegally, stay here illegally, and work here illegally will be amnestied.

Steve57 (c1ba81) — 8/17/2013 @ 5:58 pm

Maybe it’s been mentioned before but I’m not seeing what the problem is with Romney’s statement.

This is the exact position he took during the election last year, particularly during the GOP debates.

He’s consistent. People can agree to disagree with the position that he’s taking but on this issue he is consistent.

Kenneth Simmons (88736a) — 8/17/2013 @ 6:04 pm

Every person living in California hires illegals to one degree or another.

I suppose people such as Patterico and other CA residents would know the answer to this question: Is it really REALLY the case that various services that illegal aliens tend to do are no longer at all done by native born Americans?

A serious question not a sarcastic one. Not in any significant number of native born Americans that do these same services for hire, particularly that can be hired by wealthy CA residents?

I’d think that there would be some legitimate companies comprised of native born Americans that can be hired without having to worry about the exorbitant costs.

Obviously not talking about semi-slave wages. Still would think some CA residents could help shed light on this particular issue.

Kenneth Simmons (88736a) — 8/17/2013 @ 6:16 pm

Not only wasn’t there anything wrong with what he said, Romney was just repeating part of the 2012 Republican platform.

http://www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_Reforming/#Item11

We will create humane procedures to encourage illegal aliens to return home voluntarily, while enforcing the law against those who overstay their visas.

I’d expect the 2012 GOP candidate to support the 2012 GOP platform. But odd duck that I am I’d also expect the 2012 GOP Chairman to know what was in the 2012 platform, and support it too.

So there was nothing wrong with what Romney said but there’s a lot wrong with what Preibus just said, and on many levels. Which kind of explains a lot about the GOP.

Steve57 (c1ba81) — 8/17/2013 @ 6:20 pm

Democrats have conflicts among various interest groups. Historically, blacks have not supported gay rights but gays are a Democratic interest group. We haven’t seen many conflicts between them but I think that’s only because Obama has worked very hard to diffuse and please each group.

Republicans also have conflicts among interest groups, and I think one example is groups that oppose illegal immigration vs businesses (like construction, farming, landscaping, etc.) that rely on illegal immigrants for workers. Conflicts like these are going to cause problems for both parties, but it always seems easier to resolve them when your Party is in the White House.

DRJ (a83b8b) — 8/17/2013 @ 6:43 pm

There was and is nothing wrong with Romney’s statement. It’s common sense, a quality that is becoming increasingly uncommon in this country.

Colonel Haiku (8e79c6) — 8/17/2013 @ 6:57 pm

The RNC appears to have perfected the art of choosing the biggest idiot in the party to lead the party after every election, win or lose.

The path to victory is not through surrender.

WarEagle82 (2b7355) — 8/17/2013 @ 7:12 pm

DRJ, there are other divisions. Blacks are not for amnesty.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/black-american-leadership-alliance-issues-open-letter-opposing-senate-immigration-bill-209928311.html

…The letter further states: “given the fact that more than 13% of all blacks are unemployed – nearly double that of the national average, it is our position that each Member of Congress must consider the disastrous effects that Senate Bill 744 would have on low skill workers of all races, while paying particular attention to the potential harm to African Americans.”

“Now is not the time for Congress to increase competition for scarce jobs by adding millions more workers through legalization,” said Frank Morris, Alliance leader, and former Executive Director of the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation. “Increasing immigration levels through amnesty and new visa programs, particularly at the low skilled level, will flood the labor market with millions more people, leading to higher unemployment, more poverty, and a lower standard of living for many in the black community.”

I really think the GOP has its collective head full of rocks. The natural conservatives aren’t Hispanics. The natural conservatives are blacks. Which is why the Congressional Black Caucus has to resort to increasingly hysterical scare tactics to keep blacks on the Democratic plantation.

Maybe now’s the time to get past that. Elbert Guillory is another high-profile black politician and former civil rights leader who has abandoned the Democrats precisely because conservative values better serve, and better reflect, the black community.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-s0LL_1Vk0

Elbert Guillory Announces the Free at Last PAC

If the GOP could break the Democrats stranglehold on the black vote the GOP wouldn’t have to compromise their values (if they have values; I can’t tell anymore) to hispander to a very liberal, big government demographic that will never vote for conservatives.

As far as the business interests go, I think this is an area where we can disregard their desire for cheap labor and align with American workers. The focus should be on economic growth and jobs, not importing a cheap unskilled labor force. I don’t think the big money donors would like it if the reasons why they want amnesty for illegal aliens, and in any case there are too many other areas where business interests and conservative principles align.

They’re fleeing Kali for Texas for a reason.

Steve57 (c1ba81) — 8/17/2013 @ 7:19 pm

If their reasons were exposed, that is. The big money donors wouldn’t like that.

Steve57 (c1ba81) — 8/17/2013 @ 7:21 pm

Unfortunately, you would have to look long and hard to find an antiamnesty donor, not Abelson, nor Koch I believe,

narciso (3fec35) — 8/17/2013 @ 7:25 pm

Yes but off the top of my head anti-EPA, anti-IRS, anti-DoE, anti-NLRB, anti-EEOC donors wouldn’t be hard to find.

There’s lots of ways to kill business and liberals invented almost all of them.

Steve57 (c1ba81) — 8/17/2013 @ 7:29 pm

Anyone GOP senator, who voted to confirm the ‘Jacqueline Kevorkian’ of coal, Gina McCarthy, out to have their head examined.

narciso (3fec35) — 8/17/2013 @ 7:32 pm

vs businesses (like construction, farming, landscaping, etc.) that rely on illegal immigrants for workers.

It’s sort of like the scene from Schindler’s List when Itzhak Stern explains to Oscar that Jewish slave labor costs less than Polish slave labor.

WHo needs to hire White Guys… er natives.

It’s not a matter of businesses relying on illegal labor as much as it being forced upon them.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/17/2013 @ 8:12 pm

I am no longer going to debate the merits of some Republican running for national orifice.

The very best they have to offer in opposition to the Man of Lawlessness, the Adversary’s Anointed, is “the Media will kill us” and “we won’t get E-Verify” or some other tweak to the sh*twagon that will just be turned on its head to rape us.

Busy, busy, busy.

gary gulrud (4a3b1e) — 8/17/2013 @ 8:56 pm

Lets not make out Meg Whitman as worthy of the office, unless you think skirting government regulation is the desirable atribute of a successful Republican candidate.

Beside that she had nothing, zero to offer.
Not a smidge of difference between her and Jerry on immigration reform. Was against Prop 23 because she believes in global warming.

Let’s do it again next year. Different name of the dilettante, but the same RNC pulling a rabett out of a hat.

Because what Californian need are fewer choices to get our minds right.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/17/2013 @ 9:16 pm

papertiger, I said whatever Meg Whitman’s problems were she didn’t skirt any laws. At least not with her housekeeper.

I’ve seen those Social Security Administration “no match” letters. They state in no uncertain terms that you can’t use the letter alone to take adverse action against the employee, because the letter doesn’t mean the worker is unauthorized.

It isn’t a “red flag” as that shyster Allred claimed when exposing her client as a felon. (Why does she still have a law license, again?)

The employer has to check the information in the SSA letter against their records. If there aren’t any typos, then you ask the employee. If the employee can’t resolve it with you, then you can tell the employee to resolve it with the SSA.

That’s about it. Despite the fact that amnesty pushers blame employers for creating the problem, that’s a scam. It’s against the law not to hire someone, or to fire someone, merely because you think they might be here illegally. That’s discrimination. Asking for extra proof to make sure you’re only hiring legal workers is called document abuse. That’s also discrimination. The DoJ sues employers for that.

http://www.lawlogix.com/blog/justice-department-sues-arizona-community-college-district-discrimination-during-i-9-process

http://www.newjerseyimmigrationlawyer-blog.com/2012/10/justice-department-sues-employer-for-alleged-violations-of-i-9-rules.html

If Whitman had asked for more documents before hiring Allred’s lying, felonious client she could have been sued. If Whitman had fired her after getting that letter from the SSA, Whitman could have been sued.

It’s illegal for employers to enforce immigration law.

Steve57 (c1ba81) — 8/17/2013 @ 10:27 pm

I am not sure anybody needs to get fired, but they have to avoid confirming something they don’t know is true, and the reporter and his editor need to be more careful, and eevn William Jacobsen has to be more careful and cross-examine officfial spokesmen. (you don’t fire someone for one mistake, if it isn’t devastating)

(Priebus said “it hurts us” Not “it’s racist”)

Probably the reporter could neither remember accurately what was said, nor read his own handwriting, and had tghe sentence end with the implausible “racist.”

And it was not shocking enough to him, or contrary to his expectations, that he would say to himself, “no, he didn’t say that, or else I would remember it.” or he wass too cowardly to admit he lost the end of the quote.

The other people involved, the editor of Business Insider, who didn’t check, and William Jacobson of Legal Insurrection, who did check, and the person at the RNC, who answered the question yes the second time he was asked, had too much confidence in the accuracy of the quote, that they didn’t think, that while it could in essence be correct it could be wrong in an important detail (the word “racist”)

Sammy Finkelman (fa71e0) — 8/17/2013 @ 10:36 pm

7. Comment by papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/17/2013 @ 1:41 pm

7.It came as quite a surprise to the RNC when Gloria Alred popped up with Meg Whitman’s illegal alien nanny.

What realy hurt her was saying she did the right thing in firing her, and I think, also, that the law requiring her to do so was right. That killed her.

In the recent New York City mayoral debate betwene the top five democratic party candidates, all five were asked if they had ever hired an illegal immigrant and they all said no. They were also all in favor of making life easieirr for them.

Sammy Finkelman (fa71e0) — 8/17/2013 @ 10:40 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/17/us/brown-cheered-in-second-act-at-least-so-far.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

“He’s proven better at the job than perhaps his critics anticipated,” said Bill Whalen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. “In 2010, his critics wanted to criticize him as a flaky moonbeam,” he said. “Instead we have a governor who is very serious and sober about his choices. You can’t find a governor in recent history who has a smoother road to re-election.”

Sammy Finkelman (fa71e0) — 8/17/2013 @ 10:43 pm

Comment by Steve57 (c1ba81) — 8/17/2013 @ 10:27 pm

It’s illegal for employers to enforce immigration law.

What they’re supposed to do is to hire and fire someone at the government’s command.

Sammy Finkelman (fa71e0) — 8/17/2013 @ 10:45 pm

“The RNC appears to have perfected the art of choosing the biggest idiot in the party to lead the party after every election, win or lose.

The path to victory is not through surrender.”

I assume you are referring to Romney. I completely disagree. He was done in by the same thing that afflicts the GOP in national elections most of the time. Their consultants, including Rove, are just weak.

I remember a story in the WSJ in 2004 about this professor who was Rove’s big consultant on voter outreach. He was going to be the guru on technology for the GOP. He was the guy who convinced Bush to campaign in California late before the election. After the election, we never heard of him again. California was a complete waste of time and might have been a reason for the tie.

Romney had a bunch of loser consultants running the campaign. He would have been an excellent president. I was amazed when he lost. Guys like Cruz have avoided the loser consultants but, I think, he is wasting time on Obamacare when he needs to be focusing on immigration. The immigration bill is a suicide pact for the GOP.

MikeK (e5121d) — 8/18/2013 @ 6:50 am

“Instead we have a governor who is very serious and sober about his choices.

Jerry Brown does deserve credit for dissolving urban redevelopment agencies throughout the state, which in one fell swoop represented a large reduction in government expenditures. But most of that money has been merely redirected to other parts of the bureaucracy, so a chunk of that is a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. But, nonetheless, it does signify a net change in the state’s budget overall. However, Brown offset a gutsy move like that — and various politicians and voters of all ideological stripes tended to have an acquiescent view of redevelopment — by being a typical nitwit liberal when it comes to supporting the extremely costly boondoggle of a high-speed train currently underway between LA and San Francisco. (BTW, that form of fully government-subsidized transit has proven to be a big flop in Spain.)

Meanwhile, if it’s true that demographics are destiny, and if more and more of California’s populace increasingly is going to reflect that of Mexico, then it’s reasonable to theorize that what’s true of Mexico (et al) will become increasingly true of America’s largest state.

A bright future for all.

Mark (aa0649) — 8/18/2013 @ 8:21 am

I’m not happy with what was said, but I’m not a fan of firing people for saying one wrong thing or having one different opinion. Especially something like this. If they denounced capitalism, or something like that, sure. Maybe this is a bigger deal to republicans than it is to anarchists like me. Move them to a different position than spokesman. I just can’t see firing someone over this.

Ghost (996b5a) — 8/18/2013 @ 9:50 am

Mark… Gov. Grandpa Simpson deserves to be tarred and feathered, as many of his actions over decades are the primary reasons our state is in the shape it’s in.

Colonel Haiku (31c2c5) — 8/18/2013 @ 9:57 am

“In the recent New York City mayoral debate betwene the top five democratic party candidates, all five were asked if they had ever hired an illegal immigrant and they all said no.”

Comment by Sammy Finkelman

And you believe them? unadulterated bullsh*t and the media has no interest in pursuing…

Colonel Haiku (31c2c5) — 8/18/2013 @ 10:00 am

SF: “In the recent New York City mayoral debate betwene the top five democratic party candidates, all five were asked if they had ever hired an illegal immigrant and they all said no.”

Comment by Colonel Haiku (31c2c5) — 8/18/2013 @ 10:00 am

And you believe them? unadulterated bullsh*t and the media has no interest in pursuing…

Yes, I beleive them. They are politicians, and they wuld avoid this ever since it became illegal in 1986. They probably are very careful to have everybody who works for them work on the books. At least since they got involved in politivs. And there are mot that many illegal immigrants, more often you’d have someone collecting government benefits dependent on poverty. Weiner ands Liu and Quinn and Thompson and probably DiBlasio have been involved in politics all their life. DiBlasio was working for Dinkins in 1991. Liu was a voilunteer for Dinkins and Bill Lynch who wazs very instrumental in the election of Dinkins and also of Clinton in New York who just died was almost managing his campaign from his kidney dialysis.

Sammy Finkelman (7c54bd) — 8/18/2013 @ 11:08 am

Comment by Mark (aa0649) — 8/18/2013 @ 8:21 am

However, Brown offset a gutsy move like that —….by being a typical nitwit liberal when it comes to supporting the extremely costly boondoggle of a high-speed train currently underway between LA and San Francisco.

But, consider: He’s gone from spaceships to choo choo trains.

Sammy Finkelman (7c54bd) — 8/18/2013 @ 11:15 am

(BTW, that form of fully government-subsidized transit has proven to be a big flop in Spain.)

They managed to have abiog accident there by:

1) Limiting the high speed train service to streches of tyrack between cities and then creating a connection to local tracks where the trains would have to slow down rapidly because of a curve – but maintaining the high speed as long as possible – not slowing down way in advance.

2) Using two different automatic brake systems and not installing one on the local part where they have to go slower because it is somebody else’s responsibility.

3) Installing alarms….that go off too late to act for that location. Maybe good most of the time, just not for that stretch of tracks.

4) Having confusing enough directions, so that the boss of the train operator calls up the motorman – the only person on the train – to give further directions, maybe aroute alteration, which are hard enough to understand so the motorman pulls out a map aand studies it while the train speeds by the point where it too late to slow down.

Sammy Finkelman (7c54bd) — 8/18/2013 @ 11:18 am

“Yes, I beleive them. They are politicians, and they wuld avoid this ever since it became illegal in 1986. They probably are very careful to have everybody who works for them work on the books.”

Comment by Sammy Finkelman

One effectively “hires” a person when one has their car washed, contracts with a caterer, has work performed by an auto mechanic or gardening service (remember Romney’s gardening service? no slack cut there, was there?).

Again, it’s because these clowns you’ve mentioned are Democrats that they are allowed to get away with it.

Colonel Haiku (31c2c5) — 8/18/2013 @ 12:12 pm

The RNC-totuing Big Business at the expense of the middle class since the day Reagan went home.

Bugg (4d7eae) — 8/18/2013 @ 1:53 pm

Sammy believed that the Federal Reserve set interest rates too. Maybe ‘believe’ is too weak a word–he was convinced, tantamount to ‘knew’ that they set the interest rates.

Not certain what constitutes an ‘interest rate’. Could be mortgages are excluded.

Could be he meant the overnight bank-to-bank rate which is indeed what they set. I don’t remember getting a clarification of precisely what he, in fact, believed concerning interest rates, it was all rather hazy.

Guess I should spend more of my day pinning Sammy down on just what he believes. Doing so would limit my going on and on, rambling about what I believe Sammy believes.

OTOH it could be a horse apiece–what I believe he believes is no more or less important than what he, in fact, believes.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 8/18/2013 @ 9:37 pm

“t. I don’t remember getting a clarification of precisely what he, in fact, believed concerning interest rates, it was all rather hazy.”

You mean like, there’s some doubt that the Federal Reserve takes on monetary policy?

pete (c770a7) — 8/18/2013 @ 9:45 pm

48. No, but thanks for participating.

gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 8/18/2013 @ 10:00 pm

The term “self-deportation” has been assigned the quality of racist/racism. Facts do not matter. Finding somebody using the term, or faking them into using it is like using a test strip in a chemistry class.

Richard Aubrey (6c93a4) — 8/19/2013 @ 4:58 am

Romney’s statements make a lot of sense: you aren’t forcing people out, rounding them up, rewarding them for breaking the law, or giving them incentives to remain here. Romney also understands that people respond to incentives, using their own free will, and structuring those incentives to yield the results we (as a society) want, is often the best way to achieve our goals with a minimum of cost, bureaucracy, and oversight.

Incidentally, as Ann Coulter wrote in a column, about 30% of immigrants used to “self-deport” before the 1960s welfare state. No one used the exact term, but people left when they coudn’t hack it here.

bridget (fc221b) — 8/21/2013 @ 2:49 pm

Romney was just taking the “Rpublican” ideas on this to their logical conclusion – and the logical conclusion is a reducto ad absurdum.

Even if not absiolutely logically a reducto ad absurdum, the political policy definitely is.

Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 8/21/2013 @ 3:26 pm

How many people need to be fired here?
	Zero
	One
	Two

pollcode.com free polls

8/17/2013

Romney’s Call for Self-Deportation: Racist? Horrific? Or Appropriate?

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