Patterico's Pontifications

7/6/2013

Fast and Furious Weapon Used to Kill Police Chief

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 1:16 pm



But it’s OK, I guess, because the police chief was Mexican:

A high-powered rifle lost in the ATF’s Fast and Furious controversy was used to kill a Mexican police chief in the state of Jalisco earlier this year, according to internal Department of Justice records, suggesting that weapons from the failed gun-tracking operation have now made it into the hands of violent drug cartels deep inside Mexico.

Luis Lucio Rosales Astorga, the police chief in the city of Hostotipaquillo, was shot to death Jan. 29 when gunmen intercepted his patrol car and opened fire. Also killed was one of his bodyguards. His wife and a second bodyguard were wounded.

Local authorities said eight suspects in their 20s and 30s were arrested after police seized them nearby with a cache of weapons — rifles, grenades, handguns, helmets, bulletproof vests, uniforms and special communications equipment. The area is a hot zone for rival drug gangs, with members of three cartels fighting over turf in the region.

A semi-automatic WASR rifle, the firearm that killed the chief, was traced back to the Lone Wolf Trading Company, a gun store in Glendale, Ariz. The notation on the Department of Justice trace records said the WASR was used in a “HOMICIDE – WILLFUL – KILL –PUB OFF –GUN” –ATF code for “Homicide, Willful Killing of a Public Official, Gun.”

Can you imagine the outcry if the police chief were American? And if the Fast and Furious program had happened under BOOOOOSH?

61 Responses to “Fast and Furious Weapon Used to Kill Police Chief”

  1. Does that mean the police chief won’t get his EITC this year?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  2. sounds like he may have been sitting in his patrol car and then out of nowhere he jumped out the window and rushed at the startled cartel members

    it’s unclear

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  3. That ubiquitous Eric Holder. He (or his dept.) seems to show up in almost all of the big scandals.

    elissa (ff048d)

  4. boooosh would have fallen to his knees and said guilty as charged.
    You know he would never want to upset anyone. He never once told the media or his opponents to shove it. He was a collectivist dope.

    mg (31009b)

  5. booooosh

    mg (31009b)

  6. From the article at the link:

    The ATF declined to discuss the matter; officials said they are still compiling an inventory of all the lost firearms for a complete account of the Fast and Furious operation.

    I guess they will know after enough people get killed. This gift just keeps on giving. But never mind that, A dog has been killed!

    felipe (6100bc)

  7. In case I have never mentioned it before; thanks, Patterico for giving me a safe place to play – off the “streets”.

    felipe (6100bc)

  8. Absolutely amazing that this appeared in the LAT, and the comments on-line have not been kind to Obama/Holder/et al.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  9. What was the ATF’s biggest success before Fast and Furious? Waco? How the hell did they not only NOT get disbanded, but received extra power?

    The hell is wrong with this country?

    Ghost (2d8874)

  10. The gun was purchased in Feb. of 2010, but the ATF declined comment because “…they are still compiling an inventory of all the lost firearms….” Over three years and they still don’t have an inventory of the guns they let violent criminals take into Mexico?

    Walter Cronanty (d16f1a)

  11. They can’t complete their inventory until all of the guns have killed someone.

    What is the combined body count up to so far?

    JD (871bc6)

  12. #9 Ghost

    “What was the ATF’s biggest success before Fast and Furious? Waco?”

    Exactly, Ghost!

    felipe (6100bc)

  13. The Fast & Furious debaucle was merely facillitated by a low level flunkie who was working hard for the American people. What difference does it make, at this point ?

    Elephant Stone (00fc2d)

  14. As the rino’s are trying to smuggle in 60 million criminal aliens so they can lessen the working wage of American workers, hundreds of innocent Mexicans will be murdered.
    Issa for Speaker.

    mg (31009b)

  15. Just the Phoenix office, the NSC’s TDyed staffer, several State Department officials, probably the CIA counter narcotics section, but other then that
    Amalgated lone wolves,

    narciso (3fec35)

  16. Can you imagine the outcry if the police chief were American? And if the Fast and Furious program had happened under BOOOOOSH?

    Well, to begin with the LA Times wouldn’t have described the rifle as “lost in the ATF’s Fast and Furious controversy.” The controversy about the program didn’t lose the rifle, the program itself did. They might also have reported the murder before the long weekend.

    Jeffrey Hall (0c9255)

  17. Are you saying that guns are dangerous and need to be more tightly regulated? Sounds to me like the police chief was killed by a gun.

    Ian G. (b2d693)

  18. OT but for the similarity of malfeasance:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-06/jp-morgan-vault-gold-drops-new-record-low-brinks-gold-plunges-24-one-day

    As the paper value of Gold declines government sponsored sales of physical gold proceed apace in order that the headline be printable.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  19. Tye – that was a cute SQUIRREL. Great way to try to minimize the loss of life caused by this administration’s lawless behaviors.

    JD (b63a52)

  20. Its a pretty pathetic squirrel in a lame attempt to deceive the reader away from the core issue in Fast & Furious:

    That the administration created a gun running “investigation” whose only purpose was to create more traced guns in Mexican crimes to be the fraudulent basis of more calls for gun control by the Democrats.

    SPQR (768505)

  21. But …… BUSH !!!

    JD (b63a52)

  22. On June 28, 2012 the House found Atty Gen’l Eric Hold in dual contempt of Congress (vote 255-67; 17 Democrats voted with the majority), that followed a 16-month investigation where Holder repeatedly refused to cooperate, turn over documents, had to admit he lied in a letter as to when he first learned of the Operation Fast & Furious and made a bogus midnight assertion of executive privilege to continue to wrongly withhold the documents.

    Holder is protecting the Obama administration and is attempting to run out the clock, aided by the court.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/28/house-holds-holder-contempt/

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2012/10/judge-speeds-fast-and-furious-contempt-lawsuit-147254.html

    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/03/19/Judge-orders-Fast-and-Furious-mediation/UPI-59101363717913/

    http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_23096675/judge-skeptical-dismissing-fast-amp-furious-suit

    It is said that the wheels of justice work (grind) slowly. Well sometimes they do not work at all.

    A better saying is, Justice delayed, is justice denied.

    This scandal has gone on far too long (the same is true with the mortgage meltdown, GSA, Benghazi, AP/Fox News-James Rosen, the IRS, the EPA, illegal immigration and now the NSA) and We the People continue to be lied to and kept in the dark about the mischief (and worse) that our government is up to.

    Holder also committed perjury before Congress re the affidavit for the subpena for the phone records of James Rosen (the federal judge on the case long delayed post documents on the court docket), James Clapper lied in his answer to Senator Wyden regarding NSA gathering information on American citizens and Leon Panetta exposed classified information when he outed Seal Team 6. None will be held to account.

    The federal government is too big, has too many secrets, invents too many boogeymen, engages in too much mischief, tells too many lies and has too little to no – accountability.

    The courts are supposed to be the gatekeepers, the final backstop. That has become wishful thinking, as too often the courts allow & aid the government mischief – and too seldom holds it accountable.

    Examples: the FISA court, USSC ObamaCare decision, Fast & Furious, the numerous cases challenging the bona fides of Barack Obama – all dismissed, none resolved on the merits.

    Life just is not as complicated as our government, legal & judicial systems have made it. These systems, populated by officials-people – are failing us miserably.

    We make enough wrong turns, we will never find our way back.

    Gary L. Zerman (95c896)

  23. #8 askeptic: Here’s why this is in the LA Times: Richard Serrano is a favored recipient of leaks and spin from the higher levels of ATF. When they fear that a reporter less on-board with them might have a story (for example, William LaJeunesse at Fox or Sharyl Atkisson at CBS), they get their spin out in front with Serrano. If the others break a story, Serrano gets counterleaks from ATF managers. He faithfully prints these and then they give him a milk-bone or something.

    So yes, you’re right to assume that the Times on this issue is as nearly “state-controlled media” as are found in any totalitarian backwater. But that’s not inconsistent with them “breaking” stories.

    For those new to the case, here is some background. Lone Wolf Trading was one of the FFLs that was directed to sell these guns to the straws. The FBI arranged for NICS to clear the straws even if they weren’t clear.

    Lone Wolf manager Andre Howard met with the AUSA because he were so troubled by this. The AUSA told Howard to keep doing it — but refused to put anything in writing. His name is Emory Hurley.

    Sounds suspiciously like their actual plan was to indict the FFL, or at least, they were keeping that option open: let a bunch of dead Mexican cops and judges and whatnot pile up, and then bang the FFLs that had been cooperating, and lie like hell about the cooperation. (Wouldn’t be the first time). The murder of an American CBP officer by their “cooperating informants” appears to have been an unintended (and utterly unanticipated) consequence that completely screwed up their plan.

    But that’s a conspiratorial viewpoint. Consider the Occam’s Razor alternative: Hurley may have refused to give his guidance in writing out of an excess of caution, or simple timidity. Federal agents frequently complain about their AUSA’s lack of any appetite for risk, as in, risk of losing a case.

    While everyone seems eager to blame Holder for F&F, there is to date no smoking gun. There’s enough for Hurley, ATF SA’s McAllister and Voth and many ATF executives, and DOJ panjandrums Dennis K. Burke and Ron Weich. But Holder appears to be airgapped. Not that it matters, as none of them will ever face a charge.

    We are increasingly a nation of men and of ranks, not of laws. But hey, I’m a “cop-hater,” our host says.

    Kevin R.C. O'Brien (2165ef)

  24. If ever there were a government agency to shut down, the ATF is it. Why have there been no serious calls to disband it? Mess with a couple of tea party groups tax status, and we rightfully want to shut down the IRS. Kill a bunch of people, and… We’ll look into it?

    Why is the ATF immune to RICO?

    Ghost (f47969)

  25. This is just heart-breaking.

    The infuriating aspect to this incident is not that it was a foreseeable consequence of the program.
    This was the program.

    Calfed (5b899d)

  26. 26.This is just heart-breaking.

    The infuriating aspect to this incident is not that it was a foreseeable consequence of the program.
    This was the program.

    Comment by Calfed (5b899d) — 7/7/2013 @ 12:14 pm

    We agree on something. The only way the DoJ could track these guns is if they were used in the course of committing a crime.

    It’s stomach turning.

    Steve57 (c74c87)

  27. ==This is just heart-breaking.==

    Yes. But this is what the political left calls “egg breaking”. You know. For the omelet. To justify their actions. To implement their goals. The goals they know in the long run will be best for all of us.

    elissa (95fb63)

  28. We agree on something. The only way the DoJ could track these guns is if they were used in the course of committing a crime.

    It’s stomach turning.–Steve57

    We agree on a lot of things. Just not about the dog shooting. C’est le vie.

    And you are exactly right…without surveilling the weapons, the only way this worked was to wait until they turned up at a Mexican crime scene and the Mexicans requested a gun trace.

    I’m guessing that if Border Patrolman Brian Terry had not been killed with a Fast and Furious weapon, we would still not be aware of this program.

    Calfed (5b899d)

  29. Fast and Furious? I haven’t heard about it.

    Bob Schieffer (be0117)

  30. But this is what the political left calls “egg breaking”. You know. For the omelet. —

    It is a great plan…unless you happen to be one of the eggs.

    Calfed (5b899d)

  31. Indeed, Calfed. It’s really no fun at all to be sacrificed as collateral damage for somebody else’s ambition.

    elissa (95fb63)

  32. 30-Bob
    Neither has Issa.

    mg (31009b)

  33. I wish more people actually were Furious about this program.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  34. 34Elephant Stone- You mean people like Issa?

    mg (31009b)

  35. mg– We know you have exceedingly high expectations for our public servants but after finding Holder in Contempt of Congress over F&F in June 2012 what would you have had the House do? What in your opinion have they failed to do? Holder was not shamed into resigning and the AG serves at the will of the president.

    The House of Representatives voted to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress Thursday for failing to provide documents relating to the Fast and Furious gunwalking program.
    The House took two votes, one on criminal contempt charges, which passed 255-67.
    But ah! Don’t expect much action. Separation of powers!

    The criminal contempt of Congress is likely not to go anywhere as the Justice Department, which Holder heads, is the department responsible for opening a criminal investigation.

    But there’s more:
    The second charge, which passed 258 – 95, was a civil contempt charge, could move to federal court where it could take years to litigate.

    http://reason.com/blog/2012/06/28/holder-in-contempt-of-congress-over-fast

    elissa (95fb63)

  36. So what difference does it make, elissa you saw from the Leibovich piece, the way they went after Issa, and yet he still belabors under the delusion you can cooperate with Holder, they weaponize the IRS, yet they have the nerve to ask for immunity,

    narciso (3fec35)

  37. I’m not defending or excusing anybody in congress, narciso. I was just curious about what mg thought had not been done that is possible to do with respect to Holder and F&F. As I’m sure you’ve noticed by now, for good or ill I am heavily into the “art of the possible.” when it comes to politics. Also, I seriously doubt that Rep Issa “belabors” under any delusions when it comes to our wonderful attorney general.

    elissa (95fb63)

  38. Did Waxman show such deference toward W, did Leahy no they do not, they understand that one is the enemy, even if W didn’t.

    narciso (3fec35)

  39. My buddy has a tshirt that says “Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms… Who’s bringing the chips?

    Saw another one that said “Alcohol Tobacco And Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.”

    I despise this agency more than any other.

    Ghost (f47969)

  40. Elissa-
    What if Issa would have tried to get his fellow republicans on board to pound talking points into the media, not just main stream, but local media as well. The dems do it all day every day.
    Issa could not possibly have been the best choice to oversee all of the issues at hand. He is overwhelmed, and has no fricken help.

    mg (31009b)

  41. What “such deference” specifically are you referring to with respect to Holder and Fast and Furious narciso? Apparently I am not following you.

    elissa (95fb63)

  42. They were arming the Zetas and the Sinaloa cartel, slaughtering and maiming countless numbers, yes it’s treated as a paperwork issue,

    narciso (3fec35)

  43. I agree completely that counter-narrative is something the right is not good at (well, except for Newt), mg. But I continue to assert that that is largely because there is no actual senior leader of the party to help coordinate and delegate same or to integrate and guide R House and Senate strategy. Well, that problem along with a hostile media. Issa has been very good on the interviews and Sunday shows where I’ve seen him discuss a variety of issues. I don’t expect Issa to be a Stephanie Cutter or a Jen Psaki.

    elissa (95fb63)

  44. It’s called the truth, they are ashamed of telling it, whereas they are unapologetically willing to lie,

    narciso (3fec35)

  45. The fact that 100’s of elected republicans cannot repeat talking points on a daily basis is no way to run a party.
    Another thing – I’m extremely tired of the republicans continuing to blame the media. It’s like blaming booooosh. We all know the media smells, so go to an offensive attack. Newt did it proper.

    mg (31009b)

  46. How might it be handled in congress to get F&F away from being a “paperwork issue”? Can congress appoint a special prosecutor to get it out of the DOJ? No. Seriously, I’m not trying to give you a hard time, narciso. Like you I am absolutely horrified and appalled by F&F and the apparent impotence when fighting against an out of control agency, a resolute amoral president, and a secretive lying AG. I am just asking what the next “official” congressional step is that you think can realistically happen or should happen.

    elissa (95fb63)

  47. mg–I know you are not a Republican voter anymore. But you still care a little bit. C’mon, I know you do. :) Yes. We agree about newt. We also apparently agree that there is no reliable spokesperson responsible for narrative development and talking point pounding. And IMO there needs to be one or several such long term and big picture Team R people apart from those who are already completely wrapped up in the day to day mire of legislating and trying to get themselves re-elected. At this point I don’t know how to fix that from a party standpoint, either.

    elissa (95fb63)

  48. The elected republicans need to fix this with some in house fundamental decisions. The next election always seems to be in the way of proper governing.
    i must admit on special election day I broke down and voted for the white Hispanic running against Markey. When giraffe ears came and helped Markey, I had a moment.

    mg (31009b)

  49. Can Congress appoint a Special Prosecutor (elissa)….

    Under Separation of Powers, the answer would be NO!
    Though Congress has investigative powers under its oversight responsibilities (sorely underused in many cases IMO), it has no prosecutorial powers, other than the power of impeachment (House) and conviction and removal from office (Senate).
    So, absent the necessary votes to convict in the Senate, even impeachment would be a futile exercise.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  50. askeptic @5:41 pm.– That’s exactly the point I was trying to make. Sadly there are not a lot of arrows left in the quiver to deal with Holder, I’m afraid. Thanks.

    elissa (95fb63)

  51. Public disapproval will be the only way to oust holder.

    mg (31009b)

  52. 53- Yes, and then the Mexicans can have him.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  53. Η εταιρία Δαυλός είναι μία 100% ελληνική εταιρία που δραστηριοποιείται στον τομέα της υλοτόμησης και επεξεργασίας ξύλου, καθώς και στη χονδρική και λιανική πώλησή του. Με συνεχή παρουσία στην Ελληνική και Ευρωπαϊκή αγορά από το 1975, ο Δαυλός συνεργάζεται με τα μεγαλύτερα ελληνικά και ευρωπαϊκά δασαρχεία, αναλαμβάνοντας την υλοτόμηση και συλλογή ξυλείας, καθώς και την αναδάσωση των υλοτομημένων περιοχών. Η επεξεργασία του ξύλου και η μεταποίησή του σε μορφή διαστασιολογημένου καυσόξυλου, πέλλετ και μπρικέτας γίνεται σε ιδιόκτητες μονάδες επεξεργασίας ξύλου από έμπειρους και ειδικά εκπαιδευμένους Έλληνες τεχνίτες με σύγχρονα μηχανήματα και με βάση τις κορυφαίες ευρωπαϊκές οδηγίες και προδιαγραφές. Με το βλέμμα πάντοτε στραμμένο στο περιβάλλον και τον άνθρωπο, η εταιρία Δαυλός στα σχεδόν 40 χρόνια παρουσίας της έχει αφήσει το δικό της αποτύπωμα στην ελληνική αγορά με συνέπεια, επαγγελματισμό και κεντρικό άξονα πάντοτε την απόλυτη ικανοποίηση των πελατών της. http://www.daulos.gr

    asdasd (a650c8)

  54. English, motherf**ker! Do you speak it?

    Ghost (996b5a)

  55. Ghost, he wants to sell nk some firewood.

    SPQR (768505)

  56. 41.My buddy has a tshirt that says “Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms… Who’s bringing the chips?

    Saw another one that said “Alcohol Tobacco And Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.”

    I despise this agency more than any other.

    Comment by Ghost (f47969) — 7/7/2013 @ 4:10 pm

    I’m driving across Wyoming. I haven’t seen anything but roadkill for hours. Finally a sign starts to come into view as I go up and over a rise.

    As it comes into view I see these words:

    Gas

    Guns

    Beer

    I admit I got misty when I read those words. So much did I love my country.

    Steve57 (7c82fc)

  57. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cbs-bob-schieffer-shreds-obama-president-needs-to-rethink-his-entire-communications-policy/

    People often ask me,” Schieffer said, “of all the administrations you’ve covered, which was the most secretive and manipulative? The Nixon Administration retired the trophy, of course. Since then my answer is which ever administration is currently in power.”

    “Information management has become so sophisticated every administration learns from the previous one,” Schieffer continued. “Each finds new ways to control the flow of information. It’s reached the point that if I want to interview anyone in the administration on camera—from the lowest-level worker to a White House official—I have to go through the White House Press Office. If their chosen spokesman turns out to have no direct connection to the story of the moment—as was the case when U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice was sent out to explain the Benghazi episode—then that’s what we, and you the taxpayer, get, and it usually isn’t much.”

    “So I am glad the president has asked the attorney general to review whether his investigations into leaks is having a chilling effect on journalists,” said Schieffer in closing. “But it shouldn’t stop there. The president needs to rethink his entire communications policy top to bottom. It is hurting his credibility and shortchanging the public. And to head the review, how about someone other than the attorney general whose department is so deeply involved? That makes no sense to me.”

    Sammy Finkelman (a4dbab)

  58. 9.Comment by Ghost (2d8874) — 7/6/2013 @ 2:50 pm

    What was the ATF’s biggest success before Fast and Furious? Waco?

    The BATF only conducted the original raid, on February 28, 1993. The Branch Davidians were murdered by the FBI’s “Hostage Rescue Team” on Monday, April 19, 1993 (the same people who had been responsible for Ruby Ridge, where the FBI also took over from the BATF)

    How the hell did they not only NOT get disbanded, but received extra power?

    Clinton and Gore wanted to fold the BATF into the FBI, but this prevented it.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  59. Actually, though the ATF brought the original prosecution at Ruby Ridge, it was the Marshall’s Service that initiated the first confrontation and was then supplanted by the FBI.

    askeptic (b8ab92)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.4819 secs.