Patterico's Pontifications

6/28/2013

Tommy Christopher: “Cracker” Is a Term of “Pride” in Florida

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:58 am

Tommy Christopher:

At the merciful close of key prosecution witness Rachel Jeantel‘s testimony in the trial of George Zimmerman for the murder of Trayvon Martin, defense attorney Don West asked Ms. Jeantel to describe the “culture” that she said uses the word “cracker” to describe white people. “The area I was raised in?” Jeantel asked, to which West replied “Yes.”

As it turns out, in the area in which Rachel Jeantel was raised, the word “cracker” isn’t a racial slur at all, but rather, a proud nod to the region’s history, and one’s own ancestry.

Indeed. And when a black person calls a whitish looking Hispanic guy a “creepy-ass cracker,” that is when the sincerity of one’s tribute to the region’s history and pride in one’s own ancestry truly shines.

I needed a laugh today, Tommy. Thanks.

174 Responses to “Tommy Christopher: “Cracker” Is a Term of “Pride” in Florida”

  1. I would call Tommy a creepy-ass cracker, but does he deserve such a high compliment?

    Patterico (9c670f)

  2. The young lady who could not read her own cursive writing was really giving a historical tribute to Florida cowboys.

    The depths of Tommy Xtopher’s idiocy knows no limits.

    JD (0819f1)

  3. Owen Wister’s “The Virginian” said it best:

    “When you call me that smile!”

    Somehow I don’t think Trayvon was smiling when he said it.

    Comanche Voter (f4c7d5)

  4. who’s a cracker is that pam biondi chick I think

    if I would say hi pam is age-inappropriate hair a cracker thing or is that all you

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  5. *if I met her* that should say

    it’s a hypothetical

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  6. When my sainted mother was trying to feed three kids, and many meals consisted of chicken noodle soup and peanut butter crackers, little did I suspect that we were being cannibals!

    The Dana who grew up dirt poor (3e4784)

  7. Trevon was probably as complimentary with the “cracker” comment as he was with the “n****r” comment he also made. After all, that term is also known for being high praise, and is also used by lots of people in certain circles in the South.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  8. ropelight made much the same point as Tommy Christopher in the comments the other day. Apparently, it depends on context.

    Further, if ropelight can feel that way, and he’s pretty bright, it shouldn’t be that much of a shock if Rachel Jeantel wasn’t better versed than ropelight. One has to acknowledge the possibility, at least.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  9. Anyway, the point being that “creepy-ass” is not a compliment, but it might make sense to feel that way about someone following you at night. “cracker” may have been descriptive more than pejorative.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  10. Apparently, it depends on context

    What about the context suggests that Trayvon Martin was waxing poetic about Florida cowboys of yesteryear?

    JD (b63a52)

  11. Nothing, JD, nor if he felt frightened would it make any sense to do so. But … the cracker part could have been descriptive. And even if it was meant in a racist way, that doesn’t establish that Rachel Jeantel considered it such.

    Especially in light of ropelight’s explanation of its usage.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  12. Apparently, Finkelman’s Disease IS contagious.

    Icy (9edb97)

  13. In the 1950s and 60s when Democrats claimed that black people were inherently less honest and less intelligent it was considered ignorant bigotry. Now when Democrats make the same claim it is considered proof of enlightened wisdom and an open mind. It would seem the racist bigots won the public debate.

    From what we are seeing written about the star prosecution witness you are a racist bigot if you DON’T claim black people are less intelligent and honest than other races. It makes me sad.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  14. I submit that there is NO evidence that Trayvon or Ms Jenteal were in any way knowledgeable of the etymology of that word, and one must suspend disbelief in order to think it was anything other than a slur. To think that Trayvon or Ms Jenteal were using that word as a historical referant to native Floridian cowboys is absurd.

    JD (b63a52)

  15. I was flipping around the TV yesterday and saw vid of Paul Deen sobbing to Matt Lauer (because she said n***** 30 years ago) and then Robin Roberts & Co. in hushed tones minimizing the testimony of Jeantel, their victim of the week.

    Something is not right here.

    Patricia (be0117)

  16. 12. Comment by Icy (9edb97) — 6/28/2013 @ 8:46 am

    Apparently, Finkelman’s Disease IS contagious.

    What’s that? (On one hand, and on the otehr hand, and on the third hand?)

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  17. I submit that there is NO evidence that Trayvon or Ms Jenteal were in any way knowledgeable of the etymology of that word, and one must suspend disbelief in order to think it was anything other than a slur.

    You don’t need to know etymology to use a word in a fairly common way. ropelight is saying it’s pretty common there. I’m going to guess several young black men in Florida have called their friends crackers from time to time, in a joking way.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  18. See Above ^^^ Sammy.

    Icy (9edb97)

  19. You know n?????r was originally just descriptive, like the word Indian, and it is used that way in the book Huckleberry Finn, but because it carried with it a low view of a person, and worse, it acquired a connotation carrying with it all the bad ideas southern whites had about blacks.

    It fell into real disrepute in the 1950s when it was used very hostily on whites (in the phrase “n-gg-r lover”) especially when they had another word , more polite word anyway (“colored” which is what the drinking fountains said, nd the fact that it said that and not something else indicates how far back the negative connotations go.

    There was that word, not to mention the word “Negro” with it’s very important Capital letter)

    Now “cracker” does have a negative connotation, that of being a stupid or uncouth person.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  20. I’m making all these typos.

    Anyway the New York Times printed the word “ass” yesterday and the New York Times keeps its language very “fit to print”

    In the Snowden story that day, for instance, they reported that he had said online in 2009 that leakers should be shot in their private parts.

    They kept all the bad language out of their story.

    And they never show revealing pictures of women.

    They “sanitize” other things they shouldn’t sanitize

    The word ass was being bleeped whenever that excerpt was being played on television, though.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  21. Makes one wonder regarding why the AA baseball team in Atlanta was nicknamed the “Crackers”

    Jack (d502c2)

  22. Or the Pekin Chinks. But only some slurs are offensive.

    JD (b63a52)

  23. ==Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 6/28/2013 @ 9:00 am==

    I liked your post, Sammy. I think you are correct to observe that words have meanings and they create or carry perceptions that do change significantly over time. Regionalism and PC play a part. But some is just evolution of the language.

    elissa (d03d59)

  24. The Atlanta Crackers were minor league baseball teams based in Atlanta, Georgia, between 1901 and 1965. The Crackers were Atlanta’s home team until the Atlanta Braves moved from Milwaukee in 1966.

    Yeah, it hardly leaves one with the impression that “crackers” was an extreme southern anti-white slur, insofar as many of the Crackers themselves and their fans were white.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  25. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracker_(pejorative)


    Cracker, sometimes white cracker or cracka, is a sometimes racist expression for white people,[1] especially poor rural whites in the Southern United States. In reference to a native of Florida or Georgia, however, it is sometimes used in a neutral or positive context and is sometimes used self-descriptively with pride.[2]

    Footnote 1: Cracker Definition from the Merriam Webster Online Dictionary

    Footnote 2: Ste. Claire, Dana (2006). Cracker: Cracker Culture in Florida History. University Press of Florida.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  26. Jack: so they’d have something forward to which to look when they made AAA?

    The Cincinnati Reds fan Dana (3e4784)

  27. Is this a somehow worse event now that it has been disclosed that Trayvon Martin was a tenure-track graduate student (an ABD) of etymology at Florida Gulf Coast University?

    The professorial Dana (3e4784)

  28. “Not about Race’ Trayvon family’s lawyer drops trial bombshell

    (Headline as it appeared on page 40 of the Friday, June 28, 2013 New York Daily News. Yes, page 40, after the business news and editorial pages)

    A TRAYVON MARTIN family lawyer threw the trial of cop wanna-be George Zimmerman into turmoil Thursday by suddenly declaring that the case was “not about race.”

    “It’s not about racial profiling,” Daryl Parks declared. “He was profiled (criminally). George Zimmerman profiled him.”

    Parks dropped this bombshell after prosecutors spent the last few days arguing that Zimmerman profiled the 17-year-old specifically because he was black.

    Asked why Parks was changing his tune now, the lawyer made another head-scratching statement. “We never claimed this was about race,” he said….

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  29. Former Conservative, please stop misrepresenting me. When TraMar used creepy-ass cracker it was an expression which is undeniably both a descriptive and a pejorative way of racially identifying George Zimmerman.

    Cracker, by itself has historical roots in Florida, but the inclusion of creepy-ass indelibly marks it as a racial slur. And I wrote that in my comments yesterday.

    ropelight (172ac9)

  30. Apparently, it depends on context.

    Here is context for you:

    Person of race A uses a pejorative term for person of race B. That’s a bad thing.

    Person of race B uses the the same term for another person of race B. That’s okay.

    Change the races and use a different word. Trayvon Martin’s use of a pejorative for white people falls into the first example (i.e., a bad thing).

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  31. The etymology of the word ‘cracker’ is all very interesting, but let’s all remember this woman can’t ever read cursive writing, and her bud Trayvon was not exactly doing a dissertation on Slang and Colloquialisms of Pre-Industrial Americans in the Southeast.

    She said in her cross-examination testimony that the confrontation had a racial component because Trayvon said he was being followed by a “creepy ass cracker.”
    That’s what she said was proof of a racial component.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  32. And if you ask a hispanic the word “gringo” isn’t a pejorative against whites, either. In both cases, the other being the “cracka’s users, these groups of people are outright liars.

    jb (2dd1b8)

  33. Nah, it doesn’t indelibly mark it as a racial slur, any more than “creepy-ass black guy” or “creepy-ass white guy” is a racial slur.

    If someone is being followed, being creeped out by that person isn’t weird in the slightest. That doesn’t necessarily turn what could otherwise be a descriptive term into a racial slur.

    I understand your position, but it doesn’t hold.

    However, what you said, bringing up how the word cracker is often used there, was important.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  34. Mr Finkelman: He’s going off-script. The prosecutors must try to establish a racial motivation so that, in the event that they lose, they will have still set up the basis for the federal trial on charges that Mr Zimmerman violated Mr Martin’s civil rights.

    The Dana who isn't an attorney (3e4784)

  35. New York Times coverage:

    At Zimmerman Trial, a Tale of Pursuit and Attack – June 27, 2013, page A19

    At Zimmerman Trial, Victim’s Friend Is Pressed on Her Story – June 28, 2013 page A13

    The headline is: “Friend of Victim’s Faces More Cross Examination” in the printed newspaper.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  36. My mother’s people first moved to Florida in 1865, and I am therefore descended from a long line of Florida natives. My mother did NOT approve of the term “cracker,” deeming it a very offensive term. She did not use offensive terms for other races herself, and my sisters and I were carefully taught to show good manners and courtesy to everyone — all classes, occupations, and races. I find the popular disapprobation of Southerners as racist, illiterate, and lazy to be both inaccurate and offensive.

    pa (4f643b)

  37. It holds alright, you just don’t want to admit it.

    ropelight (172ac9)

  38. If it was some random black person he picked out of a crowd of whites or whatever, doing nothing suspicious, it would totally hold. When he’s being followed by a guy at night, it doesn’t. Hard not to blame Martin for feeling creeped out. It isn’t like he profiled Zimmermann! He was being followed. I doubt he’d have been thrilled to be followed by a big black guy either, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Martin had told his friend he’s being followed by a “creepy-ass nigger” in that context.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  39. *Hard to blame

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  40. Former Conservative, read the transcript of the cross-examination testimony given by Rachel.
    She admitted she believed there was a racial component to the situation because Trayvon said he was being observed by a “creepy ass cracker.”

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  41. I saw the testimony. I’m also saying that that doesn’t mean Martin used it in that sense.

    I mean, do you think he’s someone who wouldn’t ever use the phrase “creepy-ass nigger”?

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  42. Anyway, I think Zimmerman should be found not guilty, but I tend to be pretty hard core about the right to self defense from an attack. When in a fight, any single blow can result in death or brain injury, and I don’t see why a person should have to take that risk.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  43. FC–could you just in one or two sentences capsulize the point you are trying to make here? I apologize if it is clear to everyone else– maybe it’s because I’m overlapping this thread with the Blackhawks victory celebration on TV and not focusing properly– I can’t figure out what you’re trying to say or accomplish.

    elissa (d03d59)

  44. My point is simply that there’s no reason to believe someone like Martin, comfortable with colorful language to say the least, necessarily fought Zimmerman because Zimmerman was white. The word “creepy” to me indicates to me that he was scared, and “cracker” may, or may not, have indicated a hatred to white people.

    But just as easily not. I’m sure Martin would have been none too thrilled about being followed by a black guy either.

    So yeah, he challenged Zimmerman, but not necessarily because Zimmerman was white: equally, because he was scared and/or mad (the flipside of fear) at being threatened, as her perceived it.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  45. Good Allah, Former Conservative, I’m pretty sure the defense would love to dig deeply into whether or not Trayvon would have used the “n” word if he had been followed by a black, rather than Zimmerman.
    Then, all of Trayvon’s thug-like persona would be exposed, including his various suspensions from school, his dope-smoking ways, and his violent tendencies. As a cheerleader for the prosecution, do you really wanna go down that road ?

    The best witness the prosecution can come up with thus far is a dumb lying fool who cannot read standard cursive English and who admits that she believes Trayvon’s mindset at the time of the confrontation was colored by a racial component.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  46. “FC–could you just in one or two sentences capsulize the point you are trying to make here?”

    elissa – I’ve understood all along that FC is speculating the Zimmerman was probably circumcised as a baby and it is that torture which probably traumatized and made him angry enough to stalk and kill Trayvon Martin for no apparent reason, but that’s just me.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  47. I saw the testimony. I’m also saying that that doesn’t mean Martin used it in that sense.

    Yes. This. He was making a historical reference to the no me cowboy culture of rural Floridians.

    JD (b63a52)

  48. What does one make of the fact that Trayvon Martin used two racial pejoratives for white George Zimmerman – one pejorative for a white person, and one pejorative for a black person?

    Maybe that it was more about the “pejorative” than the “racial”? Or was Trayvon startled by the fact that Zimmerman somehow switched races halfway through the phonecall?

    Leviticus (b98400)

  49. Then, all of Trayvon’s thug-like persona would be exposed, including his various suspensions from school, his dope-smoking ways, and his violent tendencies. As a cheerleader for the prosecution, do you really wanna go down that road ?

    I’m not thinking in terms of strategy here, just in terms of what really happened that night.

    I tend to think Martin was first scared, with good reason, then mad because of being scared, and so confronted the person following him. A fight ensued, probably started by Martin. Zimmerman was doing nothing illegal and had a right to defend himself when he got the worst of the fight.

    Terrible all around, but I don’t think Martin is some evil guy, although he got caught up too much in the thug/bravado thing. Which didn’t work out well for him.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  50. The best witness the prosecution can come up with thus far is a dumb lying fool who cannot read standard cursive English and who admits that she believes Trayvon’s mindset at the time of the confrontation was colored by a racial component.

    Getting back to the eventual result of the trial itself, I don’t think she helped/hurt much. The hard part for Zimmerman’s defense was the guy who testified a couple hours ago or so, about not seeing the actual punches/being hit on the head: the guy who said Martin mounted Zimmerman MMA style.

    The current witness, the Asian gentleman, is a better witness for Zimmerman.

    I don’t think the prosecution’s case is as weak as you do, although I think the prosecutors themselves are not that great.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  51. Should have been “actual punches/having his head hit on the head by the concrete”.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  52. TraMar was scared alright, he was afraid he was about to get caught high on drugs.

    ropelight (172ac9)

  53. Former Conservative, I totally get you’re playing the contrarian—I get it.

    But the issue is not “did Trayvon jump a white guy because he’s white,” rather, the issue is “is Zimmerman justified in using the means of self-defense that he did ?”

    Apparently, you believe Zimmerman is justified, as do I.
    But all this trying to split hairs about the context of “cracker” as uttered in Florida vs cracker as uttered in, say, Idaho, vs “Polly want a cracker !” ad nauseam and extrapolating what you think Trayvon reallllly meant is not the point.
    Keep in mind, the prosecution’s star witness introduced “creepy ass cracker” into evidence. Why don’t you stop for a moment and consider if the shoe were on the other foot, and a white or “white-hispanic” were alleged to have used “creepy ass black(or euphenism)” to describe who was following him.
    Be honest about how that would be flying right about now. The trial would be pretty much decided.

    It is true that there’s (an increasingly) number of Americans who talk trashy in casual conversations. They may tell their friends they’re gonna kill them in a joking fashion, or over something minor like spilled milk. But they don’t really mean they’re going to murder them per se—ok, I get that.
    But that same person doesn’t get to have a free pass to go shout “Fire !” in a crowded theatre, nor do they get a free pass to crack jokes about having a bomb in an airport.

    We can’t (well, apparently you can) extrapolate what Travyon meant when he said, “creepy ass cracker” a couple minutes before he starts slamming that guy’s head into the pavement. The jurors will decide that.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  54. That’s why hearsay isn’t allowed. In retrospect, the judge should not have let it in. In double retrospect, since BDLR repeated it loudly five times to make sure everybody got it, as opposed to apologizing for using (whisper) “the n-word”.

    nk (875f57)

  55. You’ll never know how Martin used it because he was not there to explain. All you have is an imbecile’s guess how Martin used it. (I mean Christopher, not Rachel Jeantel.)

    nk (875f57)

  56. And Former Conservative.

    nk (875f57)

  57. Well, Elephant Stone, I think that as a general matter, the word “nigger” is perceived to be a stronger insult than “cracker”. I mean, there was no AA baseball team up to 1965 called “The Niggers”, right?

    Aside from that, it also depends who uses the term. A lot of guys into the whole rap lifestyle thing use nigger/cracker a lot, and I’m not sure it means as much as if you or I used it.

    Anyway, how do you think the trial qua trial is going for Zimmerman so far?

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  58. Tommy is such a mope.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  59. “The current witness, the Asian gentleman, is a better witness for Zimmerman.”

    FC – I hope you understand that all the witnesses so far have been prosecution witnesses. Most have contradicted prior statements or testified consistently with a theory of self-defense. Zimmerman’s team has not even presented its side of the case yet.

    Where are you deriving the impression they are doing a lousy job?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  60. I hope you understand that all the witnesses so far have been prosecution witnesses.

    Yes. In other words, the other guy was a strong witness for the prosecution.

    Where are you deriving the impression they are doing a lousy job?

    The Twitter thing didn’t help.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  61. What does one make of the fact that Trayvon Martin used two racial pejoratives for white George Zimmerman – one pejorative for a white person, and one pejorative for a black person?

    Maybe that it was more about the “pejorative” than the “racial”? Or was Trayvon startled by the fact that Zimmerman somehow switched races halfway through the phonecall?

    Comment by Leviticus (b98400) — 6/28/2013 @ 10:29 am

    First of all, I doubt he said either of those phrases exactly. The hearsay came from an idiot who probably doesn’t remember what she had for breakfast this morning, and would quote everything quite wrong. That’s why pondering the meaning of the hearsay is ridiculous. This is the degree of analysis that would make sense if we were reading a transcript or listening to a recording.

    But it’s clear enough that Trayvon was very hostile to George for following him. The jury isn’t allowed to know that Martin had a violent history. Trayvon used racial slurs about himself, and I’m not sure he or his girlfriend had any reason to do it other than to be ‘extreme’ and shocking teenagers.

    As for whether the term ‘creepy ass cracker’ was intended to be derogatory and racial… well, obviously the term itself is both, not that this matters one bit except that it reaffirms the trollish tendencies of a few commentators who crave attention and know they will get some by expressing stupid views.

    —-

    Ropelight, I’m glad you corrected the dishonest paraphrase of what you said about this comment. It wasn’t really necessary to those of us who are familiar with your comments, but trolls often like to bolster their thread derailing nonsense by dragging the honest over to their point of view, which is annoying to backread because most of us are not going to follow every thread.

    —-

    The state’s own witnesses believe that Trayvon was beating Zimmerman down, and that Zimmerman was trying to get help when he resorted to self defense. They seem to have verified the defense’s case (let alone provided reasonable doubt), and I think the only interesting thing about this case is that the state brought charges in the first place. It is very disturbing to realize that the progress I believed this country had made, since the dark days of lynching, is something of an illusion.

    Dustin (303dca)

  62. A lot of guys into the whole rap lifestyle thing use nigger/cracker a lot, and I’m not sure it means as much as if you or I used it.

    Crack cocaine, too. I’m not sure it means as much as if you or I used it.

    nk (875f57)

  63. What I’m bothered about is that Trayvon apparently thought that George Zimmerman turned into an African-American halfway through their encounter.

    Is George Zimmerman a shapeshifter of some kind? He could be halfway to Ecuador by now!

    Leviticus (b98400)

  64. Hoosier was originally a slur .

    Tmitsss (c0c7ea)

  65. Leviticus – Those white hispanics are tricky. It’s the mixed blood. That’s why we used to have laws, you know. :)

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  66. Loius C.K. has a really funny bit about the word “cracker.”

    Leviticus (b98400)

  67. Trayvon Martin and his damned Iberio-centrist superiority complex.

    Leviticus (b98400)

  68. FC – Which guy was a strong witness for the prosecution?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  69. There was nothing dishonest about it, Dustin. ropelight said this:

    In Florida, don’t make too much of Cracker. Here it’s a uniquely widespread and traditional substitute for White Native Floridian and not necessarily a racial slur, although it can be.

    Cracker is surely in use by blacks as a pejorative against whites here and nearly everywhere else, but it’s long parallel and non-pejorative history in the Sunshine State must be acknowledged.

    For example, it’s the name of a small town, Crackertown, on the Gulf Coast next to Yankeetown, both named for obvious reasons.

    Cracker house describes a style of architecture popular prior to the advent of air conditioning. Cracker cattle describes a hardy breed able to withstand high levels of heat and humidity. Cracker cowboy describes wranglers who used bull whips to get reluctant steers out of the “cabbage” and rounded up. (Some older readers may remember Lash LaRue.)

    Comment by ropelight (d29d19) — 6/27/2013 @ 10:59 am

    ropelight later seemingly contradicted his first comment and said that we actually should make much of it in this case, but I agree with his first statement more than his subsequent ones (in that it’s believable it was racist; it’s also believable it wasn’t).

    Cracker, sometimes white cracker or cracka, is an expression reserved for privileged and/or racist white people, especially poor rural whites in the Southern United States. In reference to a native of Florida or Georgia, however, it is sometimes used in a neutral or positive context and is sometimes used self-descriptively with pride.
    Ste. Claire, Dana (2006). Cracker: Cracker Culture in Florida History. University Press of Florida.

    I mean, for goodness sakes, I didn’t know about The Atlanta Crackers, an AA ball team. It’s entirely possible that Martin used “creepy” because he was being followed by a guy in a vehicle, and “cracker” descriptively.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  70. FC – Which guy was a strong witness for the prosecution?

    Jonathan Good

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  71. “Hoosier was originally a slur”

    Tmitsss – Still is, otherwise Maury Povich wouldn’t have a TV show.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  72. zing

    Leviticus (b98400)

  73. Referring to the paramedic testifying now, it does bother me that a very swolen bleeding nose and lacerations to the back of his head aren’t sufficient for him to defend himself, when he’s on his back being dominated.

    Like how much injury is he supposed to accept first? It doen’t take much with your head on cement and someone hitting you. One punch can do it.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  74. FC – John Good was a strong witness for the prosecution?

    This is the guy who testified he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman pummeling him MMA style. He confirmed Zimmerman’s statements. In what way was his testimony good for the prosecution.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  75. FC – Where are you reading about the trial?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  76. The defense attorney is asking a silly question about who did the “workup”. If he knows any dedicated medical professionals of the first responder ilk, he’ll note that they will independently observe the victim regardless of who else may have done a “workup” as he’s calling it. She is obviously competent, and would have diagnosed him to the best of her abilities. Not a damaging line of questioning, just unproductive.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  77. This is the guy who testified he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman pummeling him MMA style.

    He testified he didn’t see Zimmerman’s head being slammed to the concrete, and also that he didn’t see him being punched, so it was quite helpful to the prosecution.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  78. As in Good didn’t see the actual punches. By inference, we can take his testimony as evidence of Zimmerman being punched, but not as evidence of his head being slammed against the concrete, which is a super-strong argument in favor of using deadly force in self defense.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  79. FC – John Good was a strong witness for the prosecution?

    He is simply trolling. Good is, to date, the most powerful witness for the defense so far, albeit the state called him:

    “Yeah I pretty much heard somebody yelling outside. I wasn’t sure if it was, you know, a fight or something going wrong. So I opened my blinds and I see kind of like a person out there. I didn’t know if it was a dog attack or something. So I open my door. It was a black man with a black hoodie on top of the other, either a white guy or now I found out I think it was a Hispanic guy with a red sweatshirt on the ground yelling out help! And I tried to tell them, get out of here, you know, stop or whatever, and then one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”

    Is that the context in which that happened?

    Good: Yes.

    O’Mara: And then Investigator Serino said, a word that I have, and the transcripts may differ, ground, couldn’t figure it, maybe he said Ground-and-Pound, and then you said:

    “Yeah, like a Ground-and-Pound on the concrete at this point, so at this point I told him I’m calling 911.”

    BDLR: Objection. Improper bolstering.

    O’Mara: I’m at the end of it. Is that–

    Judge: There’s an objection and the objection is . . .

    BDLR: Hearsay and improper bolstering

    O’Mara: I would suggest that rule 108, which is the rule of completeness, suggests that because they brought in part of it . . . and iI’m speaking, I apologize.

    Judge: The objection as to hearsay is overruled. Bolstering is not the right objection either, so that’s OK.

    BDLR: Beyond the scope of cross-examination to that point

    Judge: I overrule on that objection, also, so go ahead.

    O’Mara: That’s what you said.

    Good: The whole thing, yes

    O’Mara: And that was the context in which the words Ground-and-Pound came out.

    Good: Yes, for more clarification.

    O’Mara: OK. And do you stand by that today, that what you saw is was a Ground-and-Pound event?

    Good: It looked like that position was a Ground-and-Pound type of position, but I couldn’t tell 100% that there were actually fists hitting faces.

    O’Mara: But you did see [reading] “the guy in the top in the black hoodie pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”

    Good: Meaning arm motions going down on the person on the bottom. Correct.

    O’Mara: You’re’ not going to tell the jury here today that you saw fists hit flesh or face if you didn’t actually see it, right?

    Good: I wouldn’t tell them that anyway, because i didn’t actually see it.

    O’Mara: Great, thanks very much , no further questions.

    Right there, reasonable doubt to say the very least. Case closed. Combined with the state obviously quite upset with their witness testifying that Zimmerman’s entire defense is the truth.

    It’s the same pattern as claiming ‘creepy ass cracker’ isn’t racial or derogatory. It’s so incorrect that it was plainly intended as an attention craving troll.

    Dustin (303dca)

  80. What I’m bothered about is that Trayvon apparently thought that George Zimmerman turned into an African-American halfway through their encounter.

    Is George Zimmerman a shapeshifter of some kind? He could be halfway to Ecuador by now!

    Shape shifter. Swamp demon.

    Hoosier is still a slur.

    JD (523951)

  81. You can’t be a strong witness on the basis that you didn’t see something. That is simply a dishonest characterization.

    Dustin (303dca)

  82. #6 (3e4784)

    You had soup. Dang, ya’ll were well off!

    Bill M (e0a4e5)

  83. How can anyone possibly think Good’s testimony was good for the prosecution? What Twitter thing was botched by the defense?

    JD (523951)

  84. FC – You are certified moron.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  85. A neighbor of George Zimmerman who had perhaps the best view of the struggle between the neighborhood watch volunteer and Trayvon Martin testified at Zimmerman’s murder trial Friday that he never saw anyone’s head being slammed into the concrete sidewalk.

    However you try to spin it, that is good for the prosecution.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  86. Am I not being explicit enough? Trayvon Martin apparently called Zimmerman a “cracker.” Trayvon Martin also apparently called Zimmerman a “nigger.”

    I’m curious to see a an explicit formulation of the argument that whenever Trayvon Martin used a racial slur, he meant it as a racial slur.

    I think there’s an interesting discussion to be had, here.

    Leviticus (b98400)

  87. What Twitter thing was botched by the defense?

    I was saying that Good was a good witness for the prosecution, even though the prosecutors aren’t that impressive. Patterico posted about the Twitter thing yesterday.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  88. “He is simply trolling.”

    Dustin – Have had that pegged for a while.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  89. I’m kind of of the opinion that if a 90 year old southern granny uses the term cracker in conversation with her family or with her nursing home buddies it might could mean something different to her than when a 17 year old uses it as street slang. But that’s just me.

    Also, in case anyone is interested, I just put a comment @215 on the NYT thread which I prolly should have put on this more active thread.

    elissa (d03d59)

  90. Levicticus, It’s a vulgar racist slur even when it’s meant as “this guy over there.” And certainly when it means “this joker of whom I do not approve and am leery of”.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  91. It’s a vulgar racist slur even when used as a term of endearment, as it was not here. “Cracker” in the context used was not a compliment.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  92. SarahW – which race does Trayvon Martin not like, again?

    Leviticus (b98400)

  93. I wish some sort of news would come up that didn’t have me wanting to go off-world colonies.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  94. Former Conservative,

    It sounds like you’re the one who got his head slammed against the pavement.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  95. He has no respect for either.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  96. 70.

    FC – Which guy was a strong witness for the prosecution?

    Jonathan Good

    Comment by Former Conservative (6e026c) — 6/28/2013 @ 11:17 am

    Are you on crack, FC? He was such an strong witness for the prosecution that the prosecution tried to shut him up.

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-blockbuster-transcript-eyewitness-good-black-guy-in-black-hoodie-on-top-punching-down-mixed-martial-arts-style//#more

    O’Mara: And then Investigator Serino said, a word that I have, and the transcripts may differ, ground, couldn’t figure it, maybe he said Ground-and-Pound, and then you said:

    “Yeah, like a Ground-and-Pound on the concrete at this point, so at this point I told him I’m calling 911.”

    BDLR: Objection. Improper bolstering.

    O’Mara: I’m at the end of it. Is that–

    Judge: There’s an objection and the objection is . . .

    BDLR: Hearsay and improper bolstering

    O’Mara: I would suggest that rule 108, which is the rule of completeness, suggests that because they brought in part of it . . . and iI’m speaking, I apologize.

    Judge: The objection as to hearsay is overruled. Bolstering is not the right objection either, so that’s OK.

    BDLR: Beyond the scope of cross-examination to that point

    Judge: I overrule on that objection, also, so go ahead.

    O’Mara: That’s what you said.

    Good: The whole thing, yes

    O’Mara: And that was the context in which the words Ground-and-Pound came out.

    Good: Yes, for more clarification.

    O’Mara: OK. And do you stand by that today, that what you saw is was a Ground-and-Pound event?

    Good: It looked like that position was a Ground-and-Pound type of position, but I couldn’t tell 100% that there were actually fists hitting faces.

    O’Mara: But you did see [reading] “the guy in the top in the black hoodie pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy kind of MMA-style.”

    Good: Meaning arm motions going down on the person on the bottom. Correct.

    O’Mara: You’re’ not going to tell the jury here today that you saw fists hit flesh or face if you didn’t actually see it, right?

    Good: I wouldn’t tell them that anyway, because i didn’t actually see it.

    O’Mara: Great, thanks very much , no further questions.

    BDLR: Not to elaborate but the thing that Mr. O’Mara said from the transcript, the bottom line, you needed to clarify after that to make sure that everybody understood that you did not hear or see fists the guy on the top hitting the guy on the bottom.

    Good: Both sides made me clarify.

    BDLR: Is that correct?

    Good: That’s correct.

    BDLR: You did not see blows on the guy on the bottom, correct?

    Good: Correct

    BDLR: Thank you, no further questions.

    These witnesses are destroying the prosecution’s theory of the case. It doesn’t matter whether or not Good said he saw blows landing. He wasn’t in a position to see that because TM’s back was to him. TM’s body blocked his view. But Zimmerman’s injuries speak for themselves. Good’s testimony corroborates the defense claim that TM caused those injuries.

    He also said other things harmful to the prosecution, such as he heard Zimmerman (he didn’t know it was Zimmerman then of course but the lighter skinned guy on the bottom in the red shirt) calling for help, and that when they moved to the sidewalk from the grass the two didn’t change positions. TM was still on top and at that point he decided this was a serious fight and decided to call 911.

    Good introduced mountains of reasonable doubt about the state’s case. The fact Good couldn’t remove all doubt whatsoever and report he saw Zimmerman’s head bouncing off the concrete as TM beat the crap out him hardly makes him a strong witness for the prosecution.

    Did he say anything that bolstered the state’s case that Zimmerman was stalking Martin because he had formed a depraved mind?

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  97. To complete the circle I’d like to add to my #89 that when a 90 year old southern granny uses the term nig*er in conversation with her family or with her nursing home buddies it might could mean something different to her than when a 17 year old uses it as street slang. Words have meanings when they are used. But they do not mean the same things to all people.

    This is why Tommy Xtpher is full of it and his article is laughable.

    elissa (d03d59)

  98. Sorry, Dustin, I didn’t see that you had posted the transcript.

    But it’s ridiculous for FC to use that press characterization @85. that isn’t what Good testified to. He testified he wasn’t in a position to see that.

    Good’s testimony was horrible for the prosecution. Naturally the pro-Martin anti Zimmerman crowd is trying to make it appear otherwise. But that’s why you ignore that herd and go to the transcript.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  99. 89. Duh. LA Times thread I mean.

    elissa (d03d59)

  100. Tmitsss wrote:

    Hoosier was originally a slur .

    To those of us from the Bluegrass State, it’s still a slur!

    The Dana who grew up in Kentucky (3e4784)

  101. The prosecution’s witnesses have been do destructive to the effort to railroad Zimmerman that it won’t be long before racist elements are forced to denounce the DAs for throwing the case.

    If that drumbeat hasn’t already reached fever pitch, it will soon enough.

    ropelight (172ac9)

  102. That could well be the case, ropelight and Steve57 — hopefully so.

    If there’s one thing I’m pessimistic about, it’s self-defense rights being respected. If there’s two things, it’s that and defendants not being railroaded when it suits the government to do so.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  103. FC, you do realize the jury won’t be deciding the case based upon Time magazine’s mischaracterization of witness testimony?

    I agree if the jury wasn’t in the courtroom actually listening to the witnesses but instead had to rely on Time’s reporting that would be great for the prosecution. Which is why the state has been trying to prosecute the case in the press from the start.

    But in fact all the jury has to go on is what’s presented in the courtroom. They can’t even read press reports about the trial precisely so they can’t be influenced by a biased media or by predictions of race riots if they don’t vote to convict.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  104. Oh Legal Insurrection, I’m watching the live feed. The commentators are saying all the witnesses so far have had said some things helpful to the prosecution and some helpful for the defense.

    Well, that sounds promising.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  105. Bill M wrote:

    You had soup. Dang, ya’ll were well off!

    One can of Campbell’s chicken noodle soup, split four ways (mom and three kids), plus the peanut butter and crackers. But I guess that is better than some people could do . . . .

    The Dana who grew up dirt poor (3e4784)

  106. I hate this emphasis on Zimmerman’s post-incident health.

    The point of defending yourself is to prevent brain damage, not to wait until you’re brain damaged to defend yourself.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  107. “cracker” is a racist dog whistle.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  108. “Good’s testimony was horrible for the prosecution. Naturally the pro-Martin anti Zimmerman crowd is trying to make it appear otherwise.”

    Steve57 – Of course, because if John Good could not testify that he could see the MMA style blows actually being landed by the person on top of the man wearing the red sweat shirt who was screaming, that means all the injuries sustained by the person wearing the red sweatshirt were obviously self-inflicted.

    Derp.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  109. Former Conservative, are you really as dense as you portray yourself here?

    Because you’ve failed to identify anything in Good’s testimony inconsistent with the defense’s position of self defense.

    SPQR (768505)

  110. To classify Good’s testimony as good for the prosecution is simply incredible.

    JD (523951)

  111. Former C, go back and review the 2006 Duke Lacrosse case if you’re interested in how DA’s railroad defendants and how MSM aids and abets travesties of justice.

    Durham County DA Mike Nifong misbehaved so egregiously he was eventually disbarred for fraud, deceit, and misrepresentation. He made false statements of material facts before a judge and before North Carolina’s bar investigators, and he lied about withholding exculpatory DNA evidence.

    The NY Times was so determined to get the 3 white defendants based on the lies of black stripper Crystal Gail Mangum they replaced forthright reporter Joe Drape with racial partisan Duff Wilson. Plus they unleashed sports writer Selena Roberts who reported the charges against the Lacrosse players as if they were established facts rather than unproven accusations.

    North Carolina’s Attorney General had enough respect for the law and the rights of defendants that he stepped in and prevented DA Mike Nifong from railroading 3 innocent victims of official racial scapegoating. Florida’s Attorney General has failed to measure up to the same standards.

    ropelight (172ac9)

  112. Yeah, good case to bring up, ropelight.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  113. Cracka, please.

    Estragon (19fa04)

  114. Sanford police department declines to arrest and prosecute George Zimmerman

    If I had a son, he would have looked like Trayvon.

    – Barack Obama

    Sanford police department replaces investigator. State of Florida intervenes in case.

    Can anybody say racially motivated prosecution?

    Sure you can.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  115. Estragon – That’s Mr. Cracka, please to you.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  116. Yeah, it hardly leaves one with the impression that “crackers” was an extreme southern anti-white slur, insofar as many of the Crackers themselves and their fans were white.
    Comment by Former Conservative (6e026c) — 6/28/2013 @ 9:25 am

    — Let’s try this: The origin of the term “cracker” does not matter AT ALL. The word has long been used within the black community as a derogatory slang term for white people, aka A RACIAL SLUR. Trayvon used it as a slur, and the witness DID NOT contradict that assertion.

    Icy (9edb97)

  117. There is going to be surprise expert called on Monday on this question.

    Here is some earlier analysis done on the topic.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocfm-6KAWGI

    shipwreckedcrew (5de044)

  118. Them’s the facts, Icy. Now let’s talk about Honkies.

    ropelight (172ac9)

  119. Are Rev. Al, Jetstream Jesse and the NBPP at the trial ginning up threats and outrage yet?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  120. Sorry, Dustin, I didn’t see that you had posted the transcript.

    But it’s ridiculous for FC to use that press characterization @85. that isn’t what Good testified to. He testified he wasn’t in a position to see that.

    Good’s testimony was horrible for the prosecution. Naturally the pro-Martin anti Zimmerman crowd is trying to make it appear otherwise. But that’s why you ignore that herd and go to the transcript.

    Comment by Steve57 (ab2b34) — 6/28/2013

    No problem. The dishonest characterization of Good’s testimony naturally pushes one to grab the transcript. Of course all we’re doing is feeding the troll.

    Dustin (7201f3)

  121. I’ve been reading comments on other outlets and apparently the new meme is that Rachel Jeantel’s first language was not English. I found this gem from a commenter:

    “I wish this attorney and really everyone would remember that this woman comes from the Haitian culture. A culture where fear and hiding your identity and certain facts are a matter of course. English is not her mother tongue. This must come into play when considering her testimony. She was hoping to completely avoid the position fate has put her in. It’s not her fault that she happened to be talking to Trayvon Martin that night. She’s being forced to testify to an event that was horrible and no one is getting that she doesn’t want to keep going over and over this.”

    I’m wondering if this is now the excuse for her deferrence, lack of being able to read cursive, and thoughts about “cracker” not being a racial term.

    ratbeach (f5aad4)

  122. Bruno Richard Hauptman’s first language was not English either. It happens in trials sometimes.

    ==It’s not her fault that she happened to be talking to Trayvon Martin that night. She’s being forced to testify to an event that was horrible and no one is getting that she doesn’t want to keep going over and over this.”==

    One of the many interesting things is that Rachel said in several statements or recorded depositions that she feels “guilty”. I think she told Trayvon’s mom that, too. That is a strange thing for Rachel to say since she was on the phone in another location completely. One might feel spooked or sad to know they were one of the last persons to talk to a dead man. But guilt? It makes you kind of consider whether our friend Rachel, who knew Trayvon’s thuggish tendency to get into fights, may have egged on Trayvon to “get that guy”. If perhaps she knows that she was part of, or even instrumental to the confrontation decision which (inadvertently) ended Trayvon’s life it may be really messing her up–not to mention affecting the truth of her testimony. Trayvon circling around and coming back to confront Z after Z says he thought he was gone, could certainly support this possibility.

    elissa (d03d59)

  123. “It’s not her fault that she happened to be talking to Trayvon Martin that night”

    WTF? You mean they just butt dialed each other completely randomly or something?

    What are the odds?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  124. The commentators are saying all the witnesses so far have had said some things helpful to the prosecution and some helpful for the defense.

    You listen to commentators? Why not try to form your own opinions?

    No wonder you’re a “former conservative” — you decided thinking for yourself was too hard.

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  125. “Them’s the facts, Icy. Now let’s talk about Honkies.”

    – ropelight

    I call my dog a honky. but it’s not racial or anything, cuz he’s just a dog.

    Leviticus (b98400)

  126. Is your dog beige, L.?

    elissa (d03d59)

  127. @122

    Yes, I only made mention of the language since Time has posted a piece explaining her view of “cracker” as non-racial because English is not her first language. Other outlets are now picking this up.

    As for the guilt, I think that is an excellent point. It certainly would partly explain how disjointed her testimony was and it would explain why Trayvon simply didn’t go home. Excellent, excellent point.

    ratbeach (f5aad4)

  128. When every prosecution witness either supports the defense theory of the case, or discredits themselves on the stand or both …. As our good friend, shipwreckedcrew points out – that means the case was not prosecutable.

    SPQR (d702f9)

  129. 126.Is your dog beige, L.?

    – elissa

    He’s speckled – he’s a pit/heeler mix with Red Heeler (Australian Cattle Dog) coloring.

    He’s just the cutest little thing.

    Leviticus (b98400)

  130. bout 10 months old

    Leviticus (b98400)

  131. A culture where fear and hiding your identity and certain facts are a matter of course. English is not her mother tongue. This must come into play when considering her testimony. She was hoping to completely avoid the position fate has put her in.

    Yes, she’s coming from a culture where hiding certain facts are a matter of course. I belonged to that culture too when I was 19 and wouldn’t want my parents to find out whether or not I’d been drinking.

    But then I wouldn’t brag about it on Facebook or Twitter like Rachel Jeantel did even if I had the opportunity. Until she scrubbed those comments from her social media accounts.

    She was so not looking forward to being the state’s star witness she had a manicure and posted a picture of her “court nails” the day before she testified.

    How much you want to bet, ratbeach, that the leftists who are coming up with this meme are just pulling these tidbits about Haitian culture entirely out of their rectums?

    People who live online like Rachel Jeantel are not trying to hide their identities or certain facts. They love their 15 minutes of fame.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  132. Now Cristopher, who is dependable in his hacktivity, much like Elspeth Reeve, but this is another order of mendacity, all together;

    http://www.salon.com/2013/06/28/did_anyone_really_hear_rachel_jeantel/

    narciso (3fec35)


  133. How much you want to bet, ratbeach, that the leftists who are coming up with this meme are just pulling these tidbits about Haitian culture entirely out of their rectums?

    I’m all in on this bet. As you said, Rachel had no problem talking about “jackass lawyers” and getting drunk on her Twitter account. I’m assuming she decided to scrub after she heard Jenna Lauer’s Twitter mentioned.

    The media knows they are the reason this case went to trial, so they must make Jeantel appear sympathetic, but if I were Haitian, I would be offended by their remarks.

    ratbeach (f5aad4)

  134. Comment by ratbeach (f5aad4) — 6/28/2013 @ 2:12 pm

    because English is not her first language.

    She doesn’t sound like English is not her first language. On the other hand, she has a regional and maybe urban accent and slurs her speech a bit, which might be part of the accent. Her mother was born in Haiti – she wasn’t and she might not even know any Creole. Her father is Dominican.

    The jurors were cupping their hands to their ears to hear her.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  135. The business about guilt could be a lie to explain why she didn’t come forward. As I have speculated she might not even be the person who was at the other end of the phone call. That person might be someone more disreputable.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  136. ==The jurors were cupping their hands to their ears to hear her.==

    That’s what happens when you mumble. The court reporter frequently asked Rachel to speak up or repeat, too. The transcript will be very important. Will the defense later say the transcript does not accurately reflect what she said in the stand?

    elissa (d03d59)

  137. Yeah Tommy, I am really sure that she knows that
    tidbit of history. After all, didn’t she sound like a Rhodes Scholar when she was testifying?

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  138. So peed–let me make sure I understand your point. You are disagreeing with Tommy by suggesting that Rachel is not an expert on the etymology of the word “cracker”?

    elissa (d03d59)

  139. 137. Yeah Tommy, I am really sure that she knows that tidbit of history. After all, didn’t she sound like a Rhodes Scholar when she was testifying?

    Comment by peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 6/28/2013 @ 2:49 pm

    Haitians naturally want to flee their own island of fear and lying for the US, but the reason so many settle in Florida is because that state’s proud cowboy heritage is universally known and revered in Haiti. The one place they want to live in the US is where they can be close to the crackers.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  140. “As I have speculated she might not even be the person who was at the other end of the phone call.”

    Sammy – Is this your own theory? Has anybody else picked up on it yet, Alex Jones for instance? Could it have been Saudi Arabian intelligence? Do the phone numbers match up?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  141. “I call my dog a honky. but it’s not racial or anything, cuz he’s just a dog.”

    Leviticus – Obama ate a dog, but I don’t know whether it was a honky dog.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  142. Didn’t she sound like a Rhodes Scholar to you, Elissa? Even tho’ she can’t read cursive? Bet she prolly can’t even read printing either. After all, I read somewhere that she is 19 and still in high school.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  143. If that was the motive, that would be worse.

    Leviticus (b98400)

  144. Remember Sammy, fire can’t melt steel nor cellphones.

    SPQR (768505)

  145. “As I have speculated she might not even be the person who was at the other end of the phone call.”
    Sammy – Is this your own theory? Has anybody else picked up on it yet, Alex Jones for instance? Could it have been Saudi Arabian intelligence? Do the phone numbers match up?
    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/28/2013 @ 3:26 pm

    — Hey, she lied about writing that letter, so . . .

    Icy (9edb97)

  146. Jeantel testified she couldn’t read cursive. That’s a pretty highfalutin word for someone claiming under oath she couldn’t read from the letter she sent to her dead friend’s mother. I know Jeantel also claimed someone else wrote the letter for her, but the point is that someone who can’t write English is unlikely to use such language as cursive to describe her shortcomings.

    ropelight (172ac9)

  147. The hard part for Zimmerman’s defense was the guy who testified a couple hours ago or so, about not seeing the actual punches/being hit on the head: the guy who said Martin mounted Zimmerman MMA style.

    Huh? How is that hard for Zimmerman? The witness said clearly that Martin was beating Zimmerman with MMA-style “ground and pound” moves. What conceivable difference could it make whether he saw the blows connect? What alternative is there? That Martin was playing with Zimmerman?! That they were engaged in a mock fight, and Zimmerman suddenly decided to make it real?!

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  148. TraMar was scared alright, he was afraid he was about to get caught high on drugs.

    No, he wasn’t on anything at the time.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  149. Sigh.

    Sometimes a cigar is — just a cigar.

    And “creepy-assed cracker” is — just what it sounds like — a derogatory bigoted description.

    Why is that so hard?

    JAL (7fa024)

  150. Sometimes a cigar is — just a cigar.

    Not when it’s in Bill Clinton’s fingers!

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  151. Milhouse,

    I don’t know if this is correct but ABC reported the autopsy showed Trayvon Martin had THC, the drug found in marijuana, in his blood on the night of his death. Apparently, however, it was such a small amount that it only showed past marijuana use, and the judge ruled last month that it was not admissible unless the prosecution opens the door during trial.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  152. #148, Dead wrong Milhouse, TraMar was high on Sizzurp (also known as Lean or Purple Drank). That’s why he went out in the rain that fateful night, he needed Arizona Watermelon ice tea and a package of Skittles, which when mixed with cough syrup containing codeine and promethazine make a potent drug popular in hip hop culture.

    And it’s also why TraMar was apprehensive about being spotted wandering around the darkened neighborhood with his drug in hand, it has to be sipped slowly or bad things happen.

    You don’t need to take my word for it, goggle any of the 3 names mentioned in my first sentence, or look up the lyrics in Three 6 Mafia’s Sippin’ on Some Syrup which in 2006 introduced the drug to a nationwide hip hop audience.

    ropelight (172ac9)

  153. Apparently, however, it was such a small amount that it only showed past marijuana use,

    Exactly.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  154. #148, Dead wrong Milhouse, TraMar was high on Sizzurp (also known as Lean or Purple Drank). That’s why he went out in the rain that fateful night, he needed Arizona Watermelon ice tea and a package of Skittles, which when mixed with cough syrup containing codeine and promethazine make a potent drug popular in hip hop culture.

    That’s ridiculous. First of all, those are not the usual ingredients. Second, that Chad kid testified that he had asked for the skittles. Third, the drug is the cough syrup (which is prescription-only in the USA), not the sweet stuff; that’s like saying that if he had orange juice it meant he was drunk, because it can be combined with vodka.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  155. Oh, and he tested negative. So he wasn’t on anything.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  156. From Wikipedia:

    Purple drank is a slang term for a recreational drug popular in the hip hop community in the southern United States, originating in Houston, Texas. Its main ingredient is prescription-strength cough syrup containing codeine and promethazine

    ropelight (172ac9)

  157. Purple drank is usually made from prescription-strength cough syrup (not available at 7-11) mixed with ingredients such as Sprite soft drink or Mountain Dew and pieces of Jolly Rancher candy. Not Arizona watermelon drink, or skittles. I suppose one could use those, but they’re hardly necessary.

    Milhouse (3d0df0)

  158. In my day, we didn’t have no crack, no sir… we chewed on broken glass… and we liked it, yeah!!!

    Ol' Crazy Ass Crackah (4d7bbd)

  159. Milhouse knows a little too much about the cough syrup…

    Ol' Crazy Ass Crackah (4d7bbd)

  160. Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

    Fillet of a fenny snake, In the cauldron boil and bake;
    Eye of newt, and toe of frog, Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,
    Adder’s fork, and blind-worm’s sting, Lizard’s leg, and howlet’s wing,
    For a charm of powerful trouble, Like a hell-broth boil and bubble…

    The idea is to mix the active ingredients with a tasty effervescent beverage and some sweet candy to mask the harsh flavor of the cough syrup. A wide range of combinations are possible, and necessity is the mother of improvision.

    TraMar’s preferred concoction was Arizona Watermelon fruit juice and Skittles, his Tweets confirm it.

    ropelight (172ac9)

  161. when they make the HBO movie of the trial, I know just the gal to play the girlfriend/witness: that young gal who played Precious in the film of the same name. If they can’t get her, put Kenan Thompson or Tracy Morgan in a fatsuit.

    Ol' Col. Crazy Ass Crackah (4d7bbd)

  162. Very rare the prosecution does as great a job-for the defense. Cannot see how the even the most awful of jurists in the land can allow a intentional murder charges to go the the jury,

    Almost(and I stress almost) feel for the DA for Precious. The girl is an unpreppable disaster. But by charging GZ with intentional murder with no legal evidentiary basis he deserves to have his career destroyed.

    Bugg (b32862)

  163. 159.Milhouse knows a little too much about the cough syrup…

    Comment by Ol’ Crazy Ass Crackah (4d7bbd) — 6/28/2013 @ 5:22 pm

    So did Trayvon. He used to ask about getting the good cough syrup with the codeine on his Facebook page a lot. Apparently he wasn’t just talking; the autopsy revealed liver damage although good luck trying to find it now. It seems to have disappeared.

    Getting back to the term “cracker” and how it’s a term of pride in Florida, I wonder if the people tweeting about wanting to “kill me a cracka” know that?

    http://twitchy.com/2013/06/27/ima-kill-me-a-cracka-death-threats-against-george-zimmerman-random-white-people-explode-during-trial/

    I’m sure it isn’t racial when they threaten to kill his “burrito eatin’ Mexican ass” either.

    You know, I’m just glad to know that if I were ever being followed by same black dude I found suspicious I’m just glad to know the commentators on MSNBC would defend me for just being descriptive if I described the guy as a “creepy-ass home boy” on the phone to a friend.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  164. Rather comical the vast majority of Salon’s commenters call the author on her elitist RAYCESS gibberish. http://www.salon.com/2013/06/27/the_smearing_of_rachel_jeantel/

    Bugg (b32862)

  165. Maybe one of the lawyers here can come up with a good word to describe Nifonging oneself.

    ropelight (172ac9)

  166. Racey racists playing her testimony unedited. For shame!

    Icy (9edb97)

  167. George Zimmerman is about as far from that definition of cracker as you can get.
    Proud crackers are sunburnt guys in dirty wife beaters drinking beer on the porch of the double wide while scratching infected mosquito bites. They’ve embraced the insult, co-opted it.
    Turned it into a “hell yeah and f*** you for calling me cracker”
    My guess is that a black person looking for a fight would find success by trolling the word “cracker” through the trailer park

    George Zimmerman is a fat plonker.
    Not a cracker.

    SteveG (794291)

  168. “Third, the drug is the cough syrup (which is prescription-only in the USA), not the sweet stuff; that’s like saying that if he had orange juice it meant he was drunk, because it can be combined with vodka.”

    Sorry, you’re wrong. If you use any cough syrup with DM in the name, it has promethazine. Codiene is prescription only. DM means Dextromethorphan and that is OTC. 7-11 had moved the DM syrups behind the counter because of abuse and the clerk would not sell it to Trayvon.

    The most common mixture at that time was the Arizona ice tea watermelon flavor and Skittles.

    There are other combinations but that was common at the time.

    Mike K (dc6ffe)

  169. Milhouse got himself impeached over Watermelongate.

    ropelight (172ac9)

  170. DM abuse from Wikipedia, an infallible source.

    nk (875f57)

  171. The Atlanta Black Crackers (originally known as the Atlanta Cubs) were a professional Negro league baseball team which played during the early-to-mid-20th century. They were primarily a minor Negro league team; however in the brief period they played as a major Negro league team, they won the second half of the 1938 split-season but lost the play-off for the Pennant.

    Yeah. I’m sure that Blacks everywhere will instantly embrace the term “Black Cracker”

    Neo (d1c681)

  172. It is hard to believe that anyone would find Rachel Jeantel to be a good witness to anything.

    AZ Bob (c11d35)

  173. Would someone please tell Tommy Christopher that the word “nigga” is a term of pride in the inner city, therefore, according to his “logic,” this means white ppl can use the n-word pejoratively the way Trayvon used the term “cracker” pejoratively. Christipher provides an excellent illustration of what can happen when you lack an internal filter. You spout without thinking.

    Peter (dfde9b)

  174. Sorry, you’re wrong. If you use any cough syrup with DM in the name, it has promethazine. Codiene is prescription only. DM means Dextromethorphan and that is OTC.

    And it is not the active ingredient in purple drank.

    The most common mixture at that time was the Arizona ice tea watermelon flavor and Skittles. There are other combinations but that was common at the time.

    What’s your source for that?

    Milhouse (3d0df0)


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