Patterico's Pontifications

6/20/2013

Why Latinos All Vote GOP

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 5:19 am



It’s gratitude for the amnesty bill signed by Reagan in the 1980s.

This logic brought to you by your local establishment GOP stooge.

137 Responses to “Why Latinos All Vote GOP”

  1. And by Democrats across the nation, who have the best interests of the GOP at heart.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  2. You want my support for immigration reform? Eliminate welfare. Period. Then you can legalize any person you like who is not diseased or a criminal as far as I’m concerned. The market will take care of the rest.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  3. ? Since 1996, immigrants, including lawful permanent residents, who entered the US after 1996, are largely ineligible for federal welfare, including SSI and food stamps. Limited time exception for refugees. States vary. This summary seems accurate to me.

    nk (875f57)

  4. A sponsor’s affidavit of support is required for most visas including permanent resident. Some have a health insurance and life insurance (costs of burial) requirement too.

    We make laws and don’t enforce them. We authorize a fence along half the border and after seven years it’s only half done. It’s all a political dance. But the guys at the 7-11 filling their coffee cups and coolers at 6:30 a.m. on their way to the construction site are real.

    nk (875f57)

  5. #3 LOL. You have not been in a Social Services office lately.

    Rodney King's Spirit (ae12ec)

  6. When our elected politicians offer illegal aliens US citizenship in exchange for votes to keep them in power they betray the nation and the citizens who elected them to office in the first place.

    Citizenship is not a commodity that belongs to the political class to be bartered away to advance their own interests. US citizenship is the bond that cements the American social contract. It defines who We are and it distinguishes us from others.

    Citizenship and loyalty can’t exist separately, together they constitute the most fundamental relationship between We the People and the authorities we entrust to maintain our Constitutional rights, enforce the laws, and guide our Republic.

    When those authorities corrupt the social contract, they forget, or deny, that this is our Republic, it doesn’t belong to them no matter what party they belong to, and they have no business and no right, none at all, to trade our basic rights for their own ends, selfish, benevolent, or pragmatic. US citizenship isn’t for sale and you can’t buy loyalty.

    ropelight (06e4a4)

  7. Is “Social Services office” federal? And no, I haven’t. Why should I?

    nk (875f57)

  8. Since 1996, immigrants, including lawful permanent residents, who entered the US after 1996, are largely ineligible for federal welfare, including SSI and food stamps

    BTW, I have full confidence that government agencies in general, including the IRS, won’t be politicized, distorted, twisted and corrupted. Uh-huh, most certainly.

    I’m also confident that once the controversy of illegal immigration has died down in the US, that large numbers of immigrants from Mexico will begin to vote exactly like their kin folk in Mexico do. You know, where most Mexicans favor their version of the Republican Party (and not the PRI). Uh-huh, most definitely.

    Well, at least most Latinos in America do quite well academically — generation after generation — so we have that to look forward to.

    Mark (fa6d93)

  9. nk, for years welfare offices have been ignoring such ineligibility rules.

    SPQR (768505)

  10. And they don’t go after the sponsor for recoupment, either. Did somebody up the thread write, “We make laws and don’t enforce them”? In Comment 4, maybe?

    nk (875f57)

  11. 3. ? Since 1996, immigrants, including lawful permanent residents, who entered the US after 1996, are largely ineligible for federal welfare, including SSI and food stamps. Limited time exception for refugees. States vary. This summary seems accurate to me.

    Comment by nk (875f57) — 6/20/2013 @ 5:48 am

    Illegal immigrants have kids. Who are for some reason Americans. Which qualifies the illegal immigrants for welfare. After all, a three year old can’t walk down to Uncle Sugar’s Free Stuff store and sign up for an EBT card. An adult has to on their behalf and they don’t check the adult’s status.

    Technically the food stamps are for the American kids. But the NSA isn’t watching to make sure only the American kids eat the food.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  12. The gub’mint calls these “mixed status households.”

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  13. Patterico, in a nation in which

    * the disparity between the upper 1% of earners and the rest of us continues to increase,

    * the salary of our middle class has become stagnant for over 30 years while that of the 1% has skyrocketed,

    * not to mention continuing outright racism,

    * and the demise of our K-12 education system,

    * and, the skyrocketing cost of a college education,

    your desire to eliminate “welfare” makes no sense whatsoever to me.

    What the hell are you thinking, man?

    “Welfare” is the practical and humanitarian outcome to bad policy, limitless greed, political power grabbing, and dysfunctional governance, otherwise we would have abject poverty, hunger, filth, freezing, and intolerable suffering by American citizens, in the wealthiest nation ever known.

    Gramps2 (4bda89)

  14. * not to mention continuing outright racism,

    * and the demise of our K-12 education system,

    Oh, my. That almost deserves a “LOL.”

    It’s like witnessing a person whose brain was cryogenically frozen in the 1960s being de-thawed decades later, inserted into a body and then released into the wilds and wonders of 2013.

    BTW, when people complain about the state of today’s education system, it bears repeating that public schools are dominated by liberals, including most educators and administrators, by a liberal ethos (eg, California school textbooks are now required to talk about well-known people who are gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgendered).

    Mark (fa6d93)

  15. Oh, my. That almost deserves a “LOL.”

    Spoken by one who exhibits insensitivity to these problems, thus reducing himself to mocking.

    Gramps2 (4bda89)

  16. Ask any Finn about how important education and teachers are for the prosperity of their citizens and nation.

    Gramps2 (4bda89)

  17. Spoken by one who exhibits insensitivity to these problems,

    Oh, brother. I bet in real life — in actuality — you’re one of those phony-baloney liberals. The ones who believe that, unlike their ideological counterparts or people in general, they’re imbued with great generosity, humaneness, tolerance, compassion and understanding. But who in reality not only are no more humane and giving than the average person, but actually have less of those traits than the average person.

    Mark (fa6d93)

  18. And recall Simpson/Mazzoli was not all that popular, because it held the promise of enforcement;

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/306739-reports-senators-reach-tentative-deal-on-border-security-

    narciso (3fec35)

  19. Now, without evidence, Mark speculates.

    Gramps2 (4bda89)

  20. Gramps2 = tsunami of idiocy.

    Why even try to deal with it. You’ll just get injured by the jagged chunks of stupidity that are whirling around within it.

    Get to higher ground and wait it out.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  21. This immigration bill is intended by the Democrats to fail. For them to have a campaign issue in 2014.

    SPQR (768505)

  22. why my latino self, family & friends USED TO vote for GOP but now stopped: b/c w/ hard-working but needing-a-break mentality we left corrupt &/or socialist governments to come to a capitalist & free nation w/ checks & balances built into a Constitution that the GOP USED TO defend

    ER (d7739b)

  23. Now, without evidence, Mark speculates.

    If anything, Gramps2, what I’ve come across more recently — such as recent revelations (at least to me) about the surprising bigotry of Franklin Delano Roosevelt (not to mention my already being aware of his scolding the rich for not paying more in taxes while he tried to prevent his own sizable income from being dinged with a higher rate by the IRS — convinces me that studies of human nature vis a vie people’s ideological biases are more accurate than I even previously assumed or believed.

    Mark (fa6d93)

  24. #21 SPQR: I doubt that’s the case. Probably the ideal for the Democrats would be for the bill to pass with mostly Democratic support and only minimal Republican support (they need some Republicans to get the bill through the House). Then they can campaign on that in the Hispanic community (“We supported the immigration bill, but the Republicans were against it!”) and, more importantly, benefit from future Democratic votes in the long term.

    If the bill fails, the Democrats can still try to use it to demagogue against the Republicans, but they won’t get the benefit of the future Democratic votes in the long term.

    Even if the bill passed with equal Democratic and Republican support (which is not going to happen), the Democrats still get the long-term benefit of future Democratic votes.

    Joshua (9ede0e)

  25. Patterico, in a nation in which

    * the disparity between the upper 1% of earners and the rest of us continues to increase,

    * the salary of our middle class has become stagnant for over 30 years while that of the 1% has skyrocketed,

    * not to mention continuing outright racism,

    * and the demise of our K-12 education system,

    * and, the skyrocketing cost of a college education,

    your desire to eliminate “welfare” makes no sense whatsoever to me.

    All of those have gotten much worse since the institution of welfare. What makes you think welfare will stop any of it?

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  26. 21. Astute call.

    So Roobs is trying to square the circle?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  27. IF Latinos vote for the GOP in any significant numbers, it will be because of the contempt with which Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular is treated by the Liberal Intellectual Democrat Left.

    IF.

    C. S. P. Schofield (adb9dd)

  28. It is amazing that things caused largely by the intrusion of government are to be solved by more government. Kind of like the medical system and Obamacare.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  29. After the 80’s legalization, Latinos in California DID vote Republican, more because they identified with Republican values (hard work, self-reliance, upward mobility, social conservatism) than because they felt grateful.

    Also, it should be noted, a larger proportion of illegals was from places other than Mexico then. A lot of visa overstayers and such.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  30. This immigration bill is intended by the Democrats to fail. For them to have a campaign issue in 2014.

    Which is why the Republicans in the House need to have a workable counter-proposal. But they won’t.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  31. * the disparity between the upper 1% of earners and the rest of us continues to increase,

    That disparity started when the dems took over congress and the senate and started enacting laws to make the middle class poor.

    * the salary of our middle class has become stagnant for over 30 years while that of the 1% has skyrocketed,

    My salary increased from 1980 until 200, when it stopped. Then in 2012 I took a 25% cut in pay just to get a job. Again, the fault of dem policies and big government.

    * not to mention continuing outright racism,

    By the dems keeping the poor, poor, making sure the majority of black babies are aborted and the babies that survive are kept in fatherless homes, furthering poverty, and trying to create a permanent class of unskilled workers who have no hope of prosperity because of massive dem regulations and immigration policy.

    * and the demise of our K-12 education system

    Created by dems to further government corruption and brainwash our children into believing the lie of big government, keeping them poor, uneducated, and whose only option is government welfare.

    * and, the skyrocketing cost of a college education

    Created by dems by making school loans available and bureaucrat created regulations that require an ever larger administration staff.

    your desire to eliminate “welfare” makes no sense whatsoever to me.

    What the hell are you thinking, man?

    “Welfare” is the practical and humanitarian outcome to bad policy, limitless greed, political power grabbing, and dysfunctional governance, otherwise we would have abject poverty, hunger, filth, freezing, and intolerable suffering by American citizens, in the wealthiest nation ever known.

    Comment by Gramps2 (4bda89) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:04 am

    I can’t speak for Pat, but welfare changes how people think of themselves creating a permanent underclass that can’t live without government largess. Take away the power of welfare from the government and everyone benefits. Those stuck on welfare and the rest of society. My mom and sister have been on welfare at different times of their lives and I can tell you that the best thing that happened to them and myself is when they got off government welfare.

    If you really want to help the poor, don’t allow or encourage people to stay on welfare, massively reduce that parasite big government back down to small government, reduce the tax burden we citizens have to bear, and do everything you can to encourage private charity.

    Oh, and stop treating the bible as if it was pornography and Christianity as if it were a disease.

    Tanny O'Haley (f5fbfe)

  32. “we left corrupt &/or socialist governments to come to a capitalist & free nation w/ checks & balances built into a Constitution that the GOP USED TO defend”

    ER – How is that working out under Obama? Asking for a friend.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  33. “Ask any Finn about how important education and teachers are for the prosperity of their citizens and nation.”

    Gramps2 – Ask any American teachers union official how important the compensation of teachers is for the prosperity of their union. The education of children is a secondary concern.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  34. This immigration bill is intended by the Democrats to fail. For them to have a campaign issue in 2014.

    Which is why the Republicans in the House need to have a workable counter-proposal. But they won’t.

    Comment by Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 6/20/2013 @ 8:48 am

    Here’s a proposal for you. To Hispanics and all races. We will lower taxes and decrease the size of government which will make all your lives better. For immigrants we will not try to make our government like the government of the country you left, because if the government in the country you left was so good, you would still be in that country.

    Tanny O'Haley (f5fbfe)

  35. All of those have gotten much worse since the institution of welfare. What makes you think welfare will stop any of it?

    Chuck, I’m not saying that welfare will stop any of it, but I am saying that it is one of the outcomes of our economic system which has evolved to the favor of the already wealthy, and to the disfavor of those who wish to lift themselves up by hard work.

    Gramps2 (b3295c)

  36. Well, ER, who do you vote for them, if the GOP disappoints you?

    I’m an Independent. I always tell the GOP fundraisers that I’ll join up when they start living up to their ideals. If more people did that, like you, maybe they would change.

    Patricia (be0117)

  37. “I am saying that it is one of the outcomes of our economic system which has evolved to the favor of the already wealthy, and to the disfavor of those who wish to lift themselves up by hard work.”

    Gramps2 – Can you please point out these cement ceilings you believe our economic system has in place which disfavor those who want to get ahead through hard work? It sounds like you are recommending college educations are not worth it because barriers are in place to success after college in our economic system so that it’s better to just go on government assistance instead. Is that what you really mean or are you not explaining yourself well again?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  38. Gramps2 – Ask any American teachers union official how important the compensation of teachers is for the prosperity of their union. The education of children is a secondary concern.

    That’s not been my observation, daleyrocks, especially in the many right-to-work states in which the unions are weak. Even in strong union states, like New York where our children were educated, the academic standards (regents tests) are high.

    My point was that the Finns have pretty much solved the education problem, partly by elevating the teaching profession by having strict requirements to get into it, and relatively high salaries as one of the attractions of it. The results are seen in the remarkably high performance of their students. We should incorporate elements of their model.

    Gramps2 (b3295c)

  39. How about a new federal law effective 10/1/13 that:

    – makes all voter registration forms and practices, whether covered by state or federal statutes, must require verification of citizenship
    – makes violation of the law by the principals or those who aid and abet the violation of the law a felony
    – requires annual certification by relevant local or state authorities that the voter rolls have been reviewed for ineligible voters and any found have been purged

    in_awe (7c859a)

  40. Chuck, I’m not saying that welfare will stop any of it, but I am saying that it is one of the outcomes of our economic system which has evolved to the favor of the already wealthy, and to the disfavor of those who wish to lift themselves up by hard work.

    You don’t seem to understand my point, Gramps. All those things you mentioned (with the exception of racism, which I suggest is not nearly as bad today as it was in the 1950s) have gotten much worse at about the same time as the expansion of the welfare state in the 1960s. What makes you think that welfare helps the situation instead of making it worse? And if welfare makes things worse, then why have it?

    I’m all for private philanthropy. I give generously to various charities. I just firmly oppose being forced to subsidize someone else, especially when that person’s situation is largely the result of his own poor decisions.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  41. “That’s not been my observation, daleyrocks, especially in the many right-to-work states in which the unions are weak. Even in strong union states, like New York where our children were educated, the academic standards (regents tests) are high.”

    Gramps2 – In which states are teachers unions weak? That is not something with which I am familiar.

    I grew up and was educated in New York state and the quality of school districts varies enormously. Even in high quality school districts such as the one I grew up in union compensation issues can get very contentious. The Regents exams were a joke.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  42. There are any number of sensible solutions to the “problem” of illegal immigration. However, this is a political problem, not a real one.

    In our society, to merely say “no” to any of the privileged groups brings forth character and electoral assassination.

    The left has set up a Gordian knot. The more we struggle to solve it, the tighter it coils around us.

    Patricia (be0117)

  43. Gramps2 – Remember, I said union officials, not teachers. So don’t claim I was disparaging teachers.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  44. Not all blacks are drinking the kool-aid. Here’s a link to an clean and articulate man standing up and talkin’ back. Don’t miss it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_YQ8560E1w&feature=player_embedded

    ropelight (06e4a4)

  45. Disclaimer: “gramps2″ is not gramps.

    Do not be fooled by imitations, insist on the authentic original.

    gramps (13e453)

  46. Amnesty helped Mexicans, and Guatemalans and El Salvadorians and Hondurans. The Democrats want to help “Latinos”. There is really no such thing as a “Latino” or a “Hispanic” outside of the US.

    What we have here is the Democrats “ghetto-izing” all immigrants from Latin American, lumping them into one special interest group, providing them with crappy schools, enabling them maintaining Spanish as their primary language, putting their men in jail, putting their women on welfare, and basically using educational and economic segregation to convert them all to a new nationality called “Latino” where they can be managed on the Democrat Rancho for generations and be harvested for votes.

    This legislation is not really aimed at new immigrants. It is based at the “Latino” voting block. “Latinos” by and large, were born in the USA. Their parents or grandparents were immigrants, but the new nationality of “Latino” that the Democrats are creating in order to keep them segregated and preventing them from entering “the melting pot” is now a larger group than the ones who actually came here from outside the US.

    This isn’t really *about* immigration. It is Democrats saying to the descendents of immigrats, “see, we would have treated your grandpa better”. It is a purely emotional play but it is aimed at an ethnic group that they are creating in order to create a new special interest group they can pander to.

    Democrats want to keep them “separate but equal”. Basically, the Democrats want to do the same thing to the “Latino” community that they did to the African American community. The entire idea is based on keeping them concentrated in districts in order to vote their party into office, prevent them from scattering, getting better educated and maybe becoming self-sufficient and paying a lot of taxes. Heck, that could lead to them becoming Republicans or Libertarians and leaving the Democrat Rancho.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  47. When republicans balanced the budget in the 90’s, Clinton got the credit. When republicans passed the civil rights act, Johnson got credit. (Of course, when Roosevelt interred the Japanese-Americans with an executive order, it reads in history books that the US Government interred them.)

    Rubio and Graham think that republicans will get credit for amnesty passed under Obama? Really? Really? Can they really be that stupid? I mean, we all know Graham is that stupid, but Rubio, too?

    And gramps, I think someone already mentioned it, but democrats have controlled education for at least a generation; and schools are always the first hostage they take when making their ransom demands for higher taxes.

    Ghost (2d8874)

  48. Sorry, gramps. That was for gramps2.

    Ghost (2d8874)

  49. um. Claimer: “Papertiger0″ is also papertiger.

    Weird stuff happened with wordpress one day forcing a monicker adjustment. I blaim Obama.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  50. Gramps2 – Can you please point out these cement ceilings you believe our economic system has in place which disfavor those who want to get ahead through hard work? It sounds like you are recommending college educations are not worth it because barriers are in place to success after college in our economic system so that it’s better to just go on government assistance instead. Is that what you really mean or are you not explaining yourself well again?

    The evidence, daleyrocks, is the stagnant middle income salaries, indicating that upward mobility is not what it once was.

    I feel that part of our problem is that our K-12 education system is not keeping up with the requirements of our changing job requirements. This then results in a downward spiral of less innovation, less investment, less growth, and fewer jobs. It seems that our businesses would rather hold onto more cash and pay their executives higher salaries, excluding the middle income worker from the fruits of robust corporate growth.

    College education is still worth it, as evidenced by the lower unemployment of college graduates; but it is less worth it than it used to be in terms of salary and upward mobility.

    Unfortunately, given the growing salary gap and fewer jobs, too many families need help to live even at or near the poverty level. What do you suggest, that we ignore these families?

    So again, higher education standards and delivery is the core solution we can have to invoke to attack this extremely complex economic and social American problem, in my view.

    Gramps2 (b3295c)

  51. Gramps2 is Perry who was banned at Dana’s First Street Journal site for repeatedly threatening to inform on a conservative commenter, a school teacher. Perry threatened to contact school authorities and denounce him as unfit for the classroom.

    Perry is a two-faced bully, an unrepentant Internet thug, and a thoroughly dishonest hypocrite of the first water.

    ropelight (06e4a4)

  52. The Federal government send money to the State of CA. The State of CA has its own very generous rules that the Feds pretty much just go along with.
    That said, it is true that a single illegal alien with no family here is not going to get much in the way of direct benefits besides emergency room treatment. He/she may be able to get indirect benefits from non profits that have received grant money from the government. A smart, good looking, articulate, persistent illegal alien with a great story to tell can get non profits to dole out quite a bit… but normally the route to benefits is to pool resources with family. Anchor babies get benefits in food and housing… single alien takes closet in anchor baby home and pays rent and contributes to food via work done under the table for cash. Or they buy a fake green card SS card set and get work for $9HR. That job is usually found via family networking.
    So the single illegal gets subsidized housing he/she could not find otherwise. Food costs are lower due to subsidy. Illegal family with anchor baby also now has more cash to spend

    SteveG (794291)

  53. A new CNN/ORC International survey found that 62% of Americans say border security should be the main focus of U.S. immigration policy, while only 36% say a pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens should be the top priority.

    According to the poll, more than six in ten Americans say border security is a bigger priority than a path to citizenship for illegal aliens.

    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/june-18-2013/cnn-poll-62-say-border-security-needs-be-first-priority-immigration-policy.html

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  54. Gramps2 – In which states are teachers unions weak? That is not something with which I am familiar.

    By definition a right-to-work state weakens unions. Take VA for example.

    Gramps2 (b3295c)

  55. Perry is still a lying coward. Shocking, I tell you. Shocking.

    JD (91f8a8)

  56. “The evidence, daleyrocks, is the stagnant middle income salaries, indicating that upward mobility is not what it once was.”

    Gramps2 – Of course focusing on salaries alone is a very misleading tactic given the very substantial contribution benefits make to an individual’s overall compensation and one of the primary reasons why average public sector compensation has overtaken average private sector compensation.

    The other misleading part of the analysis is the false assumption that people remain in the same income bracket over time, when in fact there is significant movement both up and down between years.

    Throwing additional dollars at the Democrat controlled K-12 education establishment well in excess of population growth and inflation has proved to be a failed strategy, but politicians who are in the pockets of education unions because of campaign contributions have proven resistant to serious reforms to boost outcomes for students.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  57. “By definition a right-to-work state weakens unions.”

    Gramps2 – No, it is by actual practice, not definition.

    What percentage of teachers in VA pay union dues?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  58. More from the link in #53:

    The Gang of Eight amnesty bill is unpopular among the working class. More than half of Americans who did not attend college say they oppose the bill.

    Increased border security as a top priority is widely popular among Americans from all types of backgrounds.

    Across all income brackets and all education levels, more Americans overwhelmingly support increased border security over a pathway to citizenship.

    For Americans 35 and older, increased border security as a top priority is supported by huge margins.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  59. I feel that part of our problem is that our K-12 education system is not keeping up with the requirements of our changing job requirements.

    Don’t worry Perry v2.0, Kali’s got the solution!

    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/07/california-passes-gay-history-education-bill/39623/

    California Passes Gay History Education Bill

    I can’t imagine what would make us more competitive in the global marketplace than filling our kids’ heads with the knowledge of who was gay and did what. Except maybe fisting or mutual masturbation, which I understand is a separate class.

    As a matter of fact I just saw a job opening on Monster at Citroen that lists the above as requirements but you also have to speak French.

    I am so glad my tax dollars earmarked for education are going to a program so intensely focused on preparing students to meet the challenges of the future.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  60. Perry should be able to demonstrate how simply throwing more money at the teachers unions improves school performance.

    JD (b63a52)

  61. And surely the districts that spend the highest per capita have the highest performing students.

    JD (b63a52)

  62. Ask any Finn about how important education and teachers are for the prosperity of their citizens and nation.
    Comment by Gramps2 (4bda89) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:21 am

    — I asked Neil Finn. He responded, “Hey now, hey now, don’t dream it’s over.” His words gave me hope.

    Icy (39a750)

  63. California Passes Gay History Education Bill

    Steve57 – That is so bigoted of California! Why haven’t they passed an Appalachian History Education Bill yet to inform us of the significant contributions our heterosexual and homosexual Appalachian ancestors have made to this country?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  64. Well played, Icy.
    Whenever Perry is here, it always seems like a Crowded House.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  65. …and my recollection of reading about Huck Finn is that he didn’t even go to school !

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  66. I’m not saying that welfare will stop any of it, but I am saying that it is one of the outcomes of our economic system which has evolved to the favor of the already wealthy, and to the disfavor of those who wish to lift themselves up by hard work.
    Comment by Gramps2 (b3295c) — 6/20/2013 @ 9:03 am

    — You simply cannot beat this kind of stupid with a stick.
    Or can you . . . ?

    Icy (39a750)

  67. Elephant Stone, Perry reminds me of these lyrics from an earlier Neil Finn song, with Split Enz:
    “What’s the matter with you?
    You look down on everything we do
    I really wonder if you see today like I do
    What’s the matter with you?”

    Icy (39a750)

  68. Perry, one of the problems (and there are many !) with you left wing kooks is that you don’t want poor people to become wealthy.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  69. My point was that the Finns have pretty much solved the education problem, partly by elevating the teaching profession by having strict requirements to get into it, and relatively high salaries as one of the attractions of it. The results are seen in the remarkably high performance of their students. We should incorporate elements of their model.
    Comment by Gramps2 (b3295c) — 6/20/2013 @ 9:15 am

    — What about enforcing strict requirements for our existing teachers over here? Tenured or not, if you don’t make the grade (so to speak) you’re out!

    Icy (39a750)

  70. Disclaimer: “gramps2″ is not gramps.
    Do not be fooled by imitations, insist on the authentic original.
    Comment by gramps (13e453) — 6/20/2013 @ 10:09 am

    — Not to worry; your imitator isn’t fooling anybody.

    Icy (39a750)

  71. Perry, if a teacher can’t cut the mustard, he/she should be Finn-ished !

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  72. Perry, it sounds like you were a member of a teacher’s union there in Delaware, eh ?

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  73. 63.

    California Passes Gay History Education Bill

    Steve57 – That is so bigoted of California! Why haven’t they passed an Appalachian History Education Bill yet to inform us of the significant contributions our heterosexual and homosexual Appalachian ancestors have made to this country?

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2013 @ 11:11 am

    Excellent point, daley. Not everyone needs to have a solid understanding of LGBT history unless they intend to have a career in high tech. Some people are more likely to pursue careers in finance and thus would be better served with an understanding of Appalachian history.

    I’m just glad to see this country is finally focused on the real world applications of the curriculum we’re teaching in our public schools. It’s heartwarming, really.

    More importantly we’re finally gearing up to meet the competition on the global stage. What chance does in Indian with an engineering degree or a German economics major have for that job opening when competing against the future American with a masters in diversity or self-esteem?

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  74. Bingo, EStone, Perry’s a retired high school chemistry teacher and a proud union member. No problem stumps Perry, he’s got all the solutions and he never licks the spoon.

    ropelight (06e4a4)

  75. Chuck, I’m not saying that welfare will stop any of it, but I am saying that it is one of the outcomes of our economic system which has evolved to the favor of the already wealthy, and to the disfavor of those who wish to lift themselves up by hard work.

    I need to revisit this statement, because it is so over-the-top stupid.

    Gramps2, if — as you admit here — welfare won’t solve those problems, why are you using them as reasons for the existence of welfare? If you’re not using them as reasons for the existence of welfare, then what point do they possibly have in your comments? And, if welfare won’t solve those problems (which you have just admitted), then why shouldn’t we end welfare?

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  76. gratitude for the amnesty bill signed by Reagan in the 1980s.

    Who would say that? And they don’t overall, vote GOP.

    What the immigration issue does is prevent Hispanics – and now we’re starting to see
    Aaians as well – from voting for a Republican.

    At the time of the amnesty this was not perceived as an issue republicans were on side of. Although a campaign against illegal immigration had bene waged on talk radio since 1974 it took along time to permeate,

    What cost the GOP votes was Proposition 187 in California.

    IOn Texas it wasn’t quiote like that.

    Anyway, the Republican Party began gaining some votes (on otehr issues)

    But the opposition to amnesty has started to kill it all.

    Right now the bias there is all republicans are no good.

    This is anyway about remocing an impediment, but it won’t if Republican support for the bill is grudging and candidates do not disagree with some premises.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  77. Sammy, Sammy, Sammy.
    Our esteemed host Patterico was being facetious in his assertion that Latinos have all been voting Republican since the 1986 amnesty bill.

    See, because the GOP establishment is telling us that if we support the bill now, it will cause Latinos to reward Republicans…just like didn’t happen in 1986 !

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  78. Sean Trende:

    “With a cloture vote on the Senate’s immigration reform bill expected next week, countless commentators have expressed the view that if Republicans don’t sign on for reform, the party is doomed at the presidential level for a generation.

    This is the first in a two-part series explaining why this conventional wisdom is incorrect. Signing on to a comprehensive immigration package is probably part of one way for Republicans to form a winning coalition at the presidential level, but it isn’t the only way (for more, I’ve written a book about this, as well as countless articles here at RCP). Today I’ll re-examine what was really the most salient demographic change in 2012: The drop-off in white voters.

    Obama’s IRS targeting of the Tea Party groups may have helped.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  79. An interesting quote from the last link:

    “But the GOP still has something of a choice to make. One option is to go after these downscale whites. As I’ll show in Part 2, it can probably build a fairly strong coalition this way. Doing so would likely mean nominating a candidate who is more Bush-like in personality, and to some degree on policy. This doesn’t mean embracing “big government” economics or redistribution full bore; suspicion of government is a strain in American populism dating back at least to Andrew Jackson. It means abandoning some of its more pro-corporate stances. This GOP would have to be more “America first” on trade, immigration and foreign policy; less pro-Wall Street and big business in its rhetoric; more Main Street/populist on economics.

    For now, the GOP seems to be taking a different route, trying to appeal to Hispanics through immigration reform and to upscale whites by relaxing its stance on some social issues. I think this is a tricky road to travel, and the GOP has rarely been successful at the national level with this approach. It certainly has to do more than Mitt Romney did, who at times seemed to think that he could win the election just by corralling the small business vote. That said, with the right candidate it could be doable. It’s certainly the route that most pundits and journalists are encouraging the GOP to travel, although that might tell us more about the socioeconomic standing and background of pundits and journalists than anything else.”

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  80. After the 80′s legalization, Latinos in California DID vote Republican…

    Comment by Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 6/20/2013 @ 8:46 am

    No, they didn’t. Why do you keep saying that?

    Scrutineer (0b6bc0)

  81. Two Republican Senators have a proposal: When it comes to border control, results won’t matter, only intentions and the amount of money being spent will count. Democrats are looking favorably on it.

    http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/20/19043901-senators-announce-border-security-deal-kill-cornyn-amendment?lite

    If Republicans are looking for a way out, this might work, at the cost of several billions of dollars.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  82. Chuck Bartowski responded:

    Gramps2, if — as you admit here — welfare won’t solve those problems, why are you using them as reasons for the existence of welfare? If you’re not using them as reasons for the existence of welfare, then what point do they possibly have in your comments? And, if welfare won’t solve those problems (which you have just admitted), then why shouldn’t we end welfare?

    Welfare solves some problems of the poor, including the working poor, or would you prefer to see more homeless/hungry families living in our streets? Welfare is humanitarian aid for those in need, which is a helpful response from a civilized people. Consider it charity on behalf of us all.

    Cut off welfare and create more problems. Is that a solution, Chuck?

    Gramps2 (362e66)

  83. $30 billion, according to the CBS Evening News.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  84. DRJ concluded:

    Obama’s IRS targeting of the Tea Party groups may have helped.

    I’ve seen no evidence to support that allegation. Show me the evidence.

    Gramps2 (362e66)

  85. Consider it charity on behalf of us all.

    Liberalism in a nutshell.

    JD (b63a52)

  86. I think by “stateless people” “displaced by climate change” Senator Brian Schatz means that the country where they used to live is now under water.

    This is supposed to happen to some place in the Indian Ocean and maybe a South PAcific island or two.

    It isn’t actually going to happen.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  87. Perry is now denying that the IRS targeted conser active groups improperly. Something it has admitted to. Pseudo apologized for.

    JD (b63a52)

  88. Welfare solves some problems of the poor, including the working poor, or would you prefer to see more homeless/hungry families living in our streets?

    You just said welfare doesn’t solve the problems you listed. So, why did you list those problems as examples of why welfare shouldn’t be cut.

    And, no, I don’t want to see people hungry. As I said, I support private charities. I also believe in holding people accountable for their bad decisions. Perhaps you don’t?

    Cut off welfare and create more problems. Is that a solution, Chuck?

    You don’t seem to understand what you are arguing, Perry. You certainly don’t understand anything I’ve written. Maybe it’s because you attended inferior schools? See, I went to Catholic school through 12th grade. They pay the teachers there a LOT less than the public schools…but still manage to turn out superior scholars. I bet you have no idea why.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  89. Comment by Gramps2 (4bda89) — 6/20/2013 @ 7:04 am

    Shorter version-I’m on welfare and I needs my check, otherwise I got’s to get me a job.

    Where in the Constitution does it give Congress the authority to steal from one person in order to provide a free ride for another?

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  90. Shorter Perry v2.0

    Solves = exacerbates.

    Steve57 (ab2b34)

  91. They’re not as a group to vote GOP because, putting aside for the moment gender, within a given society, voting tends to break over intelligence lines, with the highest and lowest intelligence voters being on the left of the spectrum and those nearer the average being on the right.

    If the country becomes majority hispanic, then that will change of course, but both the GOP and the nation itself would move left in that case (as they have been for quite some time, and the changing demographic makeup of the country is one of those reasons).

    Former Conservative (4761e8)

  92. And wait till Guam tips over, narciso! Are we going to take in all the Guamians too?

    Patricia (be0117)

  93. “voting tends to break over intelligence lines”

    Former Conservative – Do you have a link to support that or are you just assuming years of education is equivalent to intelligence?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  94. It’s my observation as much as anything, and it’s easy to make if one is knowledgeable on ancestral population differences in (average) intelligence. Just look at the electorate. Ashkenazi Jews, north-east Asians, and the vast majority of academics and scientists vote on the left, Caucasians and practical-minded businesspeople on the right, and African-Americans, Hispanics, native Americans, and welfare recipients on the left again. The historical anomaly of slavery and the Civil War brought African-Americans to the GOP, but they have now re-oriented themselves more toward leftism.

    I have a theory on why this is so, but people won’t even acknowledge basic, extremely obvious facts so it’s not like they’re ready to get into second-order implications.

    However, for others’ views on the subject of how intelligence and political preferences are related, you can see here.

    There are some different ideas on it, and I don’t completely disagree with them, but I believe most have missed the all-important split. They’re trying to divide the pile into 2: higher and lower, when really it is best divided into 3: highest, lowest, and nearer the mean.

    Essentially what I think is going on here is that, within a given society, those who are the least intelligent are drawn to leftism for a variety of (rational) reasons, such as the fact they produce on average less, and can gain economically by receiving net benefits from government. Extremely intelligent people have no difficulty at all providing for their basic needs and through some combination of either altruism (also believing they’re entitled to lead, i.e., elitism) or just a desire for power and profiteering parasitism, are also drawn to leftism — but as the leadership class.

    People with average cognitive abilities for the society, however, are able to look after themselves and see value in looking after their community through charity, but believe less in being responsible for a wider group. They feel less need to be dependent or dominate/lead, in other words.

    Therefore the independent personal responsibility streak in conservatism.

    Unfortunately, both liberals and conservatives lack courage to look at things honestly, as Michelle Malkin notes.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  95. “It’s my observation as much as anything, and it’s easy to make if one is knowledgeable on ancestral population differences in (average) intelligence. Just look at the electorate. Ashkenazi Jews, north-east Asians, and the vast majority of academics and scientists vote on the left”

    Former Conservative – Yes, you just blindly swallow liberal dogma. You state things as fact which are really only your opinion. I understand.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  96. These voting patterns have been widely reported, daleyrocks. They are hardly “liberal dogma”.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  97. Former Conservative – You forgot to mention more religiously observant people. Would you classify them of average intelligence or below?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  98. Former Conservative – You forgot to mention more religiously observant people. Would you classify them of average intelligence or below?

    Which religion?

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  99. “These voting patterns have been widely reported, daleyrocks. They are hardly “liberal dogma”.”

    Former Conservative – The voting patterns of the groups have been reported. Have IQ tests or other intelligence testing measures been applied to the different groups at different points of time, because otherwise what you are repeating is pure liberal dogma.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  100. “Which religion?”

    Former Conservative – Oh, why not Christianity, which more than 70% of the people in this country claim to follow.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  101. Well, there are different strains of Christianity.

    As a broad matter, religiosity is negatively associated with intelligence, but there are many cultural variances. Atheists and scientists (but I repeat myself) tend to be of greater intelligence for example.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  102. Unfortunately, both liberals and conservatives lack courage to look at things honestly, as Michelle Malkin notes.

    What’s sickening about that is a huge percentage of upwardly-mobile liberals, particularly white/Anglo ones, will bend over backwards to avoid sending their precious dear children to schools whose student body is predominantly Latino, much less black. Oh, they’ll talk a good game and all. They’ll wax poetic about diversity and generous immigration policies. They’ll love patting themselves on the back for the way their verbiage sounds so compassionate, beautiful and tolerant. But all of that wonderful idealism generally will be taking place in the safe confines of their protected little neighborhood, from a snug little bubble they float around in.

    Squishy conservatives are a bit less phony-baloney when it comes to the harsh socio-economic reality of the 21st century, but their falling for the George-W-Bush-ian belief that conservatism must be “compassionate” instead of sensible and realistic will be not much foolish than their counterparts on the left are.

    Mark (4db773)

  103. “As a broad matter, religiosity is negatively associated with intelligence, but there are many cultural variances. Atheists and scientists (but I repeat myself) tend to be of greater intelligence for example.”

    Former Conservative – Don’t you mean you believe “religiosity is negatively associated with intelligence” and that atheists and scientists tend to be of greater intelligence,” but that you have no evidence to support your beliefs?

    You sound very much like one/two former commenters here who consistently espoused very similar views but like you were never able to support them. He/They used the handle(s) Christoph/Random. Have you ever been in the same room with either such person?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  104. Former Conservative – Don’t you mean you believe “religiosity is negatively associated with intelligence” and that atheists and scientists tend to be of greater intelligence,” but that you have no evidence to support your beliefs?

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2013 @ 10:04 pm

    There is evidence to support his beliefs.

    Scrutineer (0b6bc0)

  105. Scrutineer – Thanks. My understanding is that IQ attempts to measure intelligence as of a point in time and can vary significantly with age for a variety of reasons.

    So with respect to your first link, adolescents don’t vote so who cares.

    The second link is to somebody who claims the GSS measures a verbal IQ and that certain statements about God and the Bible can be correlated by strength back to the level of verbal IQ. I’m not familiar with the GSS and whether it purports to measure verbal IQ or whether the technique used in the article is valid.

    Your third link is standard liberal psycho pablum. It says a lot of scientists are atheists. Assumes we accept on faith that scientists are smarter than other people. Therefore if smarter people are nonreligious, religious people must be dummies. QED. Except for the lack of QED.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  106. Is there? I just thought it went without saying. 😉

    I mean, it’s so obvious. You go for ready-made answers from a huge contradictory book, picking and choosing whatever suits you at the moment; or you look for answers in the world. B is more demanding than A.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  107. My understanding is that IQ attempts to measure intelligence as of a point in time and can vary significantly with age for a variety of reasons.

    It tends to move around, but still fall out in roughly the same order.

    In 1932, the entire population of Scottish 11-year-olds (87, 498 children) took an IQ test. Over 60 years later, psychologists Ian Deary and Lawrence Whalley tracked down about 500 of them and gave them the same test to take again.

    Turns out, the correlation was strikingly high — .66, to be exact. Those who were at the top of the pack at age 11 also tended to be at the top of the pack at age 80, and those who were at the bottom also tended to stay at the bottom. Equally as interesting, the correlation was far from perfect. A few outliers could be found.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  108. daleyrocks, from what little I’ve read on the subject, IQ appears to be fairly stable over time.

    WORDSUM (the measure in the second link) is strongly correlated with IQ.

    Students who major in scientific fields have well above average intelligence. The chance that there are a lot scientists with double digit IQs is roughly zero. How is it “liberal psycho pablum” to say that scientists are more intelligent than the average person?

    (how did a discussion of Latino voting patterns turn into an argument about IQ and religion?)

    Scrutineer (0b6bc0)

  109. Scrutineer, I’m not sure, but there actually is a relationship.

    American conservatives often think, “They’re Catholics — believing Christians, more or less like me. A natural conservative voting block.”

    without taking into account the effect relative intelligence has on voting patterns. Hispanics, being on average less intelligent than Caucasians (who themselves are nearer the mean in America), tend to vote more toward the left of the political spectrum. Some conservatives imagine that they can buy the majority of Hispanic votes by supporting liberal immigration. Whatever the benefits of unfettered immigration may be, this is not one of them.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  110. “WORDSUM (the measure in the second link) is strongly correlated with IQ.”

    Scrutineer – I’m trying to following the logic in the links you provide, but they all seem to take liberties and leaps. When is adult IQ measured so that a correlation can be calculated with Wordsum?

    “Students who major in scientific fields have well above average intelligence.”

    Well, if you go to the ETS website, it will tell you the SAT measures aptitude for college and says nothing about measuring IQ. How is an IQ derived from an SAT score and how was the chart at your link assembled?

    “How is it “liberal psycho pablum” to say that scientists are more intelligent than the average person?”

    To automatically defer superintelligence status on scientists because they have spent extra years in academia educating themselves in narrow subject matter is a specious argument. It equates years of education with intelligence but provides no comparison.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  111. “Is there? I just thought it went without saying.”

    Former Conservative – Really. You would think all the atheists and liberals hating on godbothering christofascists would be able to come up with simple proof without embarrassing themselves if it were so easy. Instead they keep screwing the pooch.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  112. It was tongue in cheek, daleyrocks; notice the winky face. Of course I know there’s evidence and have seen it.

    But even without the evidence, it is obvious. B is harder cognitively than A, so more intelligent people would tend to do B, less intelligent people A, when it comes to making sense of the world — at least now when doing B is a realistic possibility, when it wasn’t always due to religious oppression.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  113. Trende: Today I’ll re-examine what was really the most salient demographic change in 2012: The drop-off in white voters.“

    Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 6/20/2013 @ 2:19 pm

    Obama’s IRS targeting of the Tea Party groups may have helped.

    My theory is the voter ID laws contributed to it.

    Elderly people disproportionately lack ID, because they may not drive any more if they did before, or because they never needed ID in the past, and elderly voters also tend to vote republicvana dn are more white.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  114. I never thought of that, Sammy. Wouldn’t that be ironic?

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  115. “Well, if you go to the ETS website, it will tell you the SAT measures aptitude for college and says nothing about measuring IQ.”

    Oh come on. Are you disingenuously pretending to believe ETS’ lies of omission? Performance in cognitive tasks has a correlation structure that is dominated by Spearman’s “g”, aka IQ. ETS knows that. They just don’t find it convenient to mention it.

    In many contexts it’s illegal to measure even fuzzy “aptitude” — Griggs v. Duke Power.

    Strangely it’s not illegal for the NBA to hire the people demonstrably best at dropping spheroids through hoops. Go figure.

    phunctor (ff22de)

  116. As for intelligence stability over time, I had two IQ tests 25 years apart. I was impressed at how close they were together. There was only a slight increase.

    Now it could be because I like to study things and had 25 years lead-up time. Or it could be because I ate a healthier breakfast. Who knows? You can’t say much from a sample of 1.

    However intelligence testing really does relate to something real. But it is far from the only important trait. Many others matter too, and some cut the other direction. In other words, more intelligent populations are often worse at some important things and vice versa. But intelligence, in this fast-changing high-tech world, is now disproportionately important — which is the reason it is especially relevant to immigration policy.

    Jason Richwine was right. Heritage hired a brilliant guy after reading his thesis and fired him when the heat was on. Malkin has the courage to say this despite conservatives as a group wimping out on this as in so many other things.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  117. “Elderly people disproportionately lack ID”

    Sammy – Prove it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  118. “Oh come on. Are you disingenuously pretending to believe ETS’ lies of omission?”

    phunctor – Oh, come on, are you going to disingenuously going to claim that the SAT is an IQ test or are you going to more rationally claim that there is a correlation between SAT test results and IQ.

    You decide and take me through how you translate an SAT test score into an IQ.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  119. “(how did a discussion of Latino voting patterns turn into an argument about IQ and religion?)”

    Scrutineer – Former Conservative began the conversation at #92. You need to consider the self-serving motives of people who have a desperate need to stratify society into voting blocks by intelligence to validate themselves.

    We have seen it here many times.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  120. “Elderly people disproportionately lack ID”

    Sammy – Prove it.

    It’s a hypothesis. It would require some effort and significant resources to prove. But it is an interesting hypothesis. It makes sense on its face.

    Yeah, I see certain counterbalancing factors which I won’t detail. But Sammy didn’t advance this idea as a formal proof, he threw it out there as his “theory”. And it’s an interesting one. I appreciate him bringing the idea to my awarenenss.

    By all means, perhaps someone will take a look at it some day. It might be a memorable bit of political science, including in how initiatives can backfire when variables aren’t taken into consideration. And yes, I always thought voter ID laws make sense. Still do.

    People shouldn’t vote twice, for others, ineligible voters shouldn’t vote at all, etc. Beyond practicality, that protects the integrity of the system, raising confidence in it.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  121. Which is kind of lacking at the moment.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  122. Scrutineer – Former Conservative began the conversation at #92. You need to consider the self-serving motives of people who have a desperate need to stratify society into voting blocks by intelligence to validate themselves.

    In order to understand political reality, one must first address reality.

    One of those realities is the changing demographic makeup of the country tilts it left — and there are reasons for that: this is one of the bigger ones (an even bigger one is technology). My personal preferences are irrelevant in any of this. I assure you the universe did not consult me on how how nature ought to be.

    Former Conservative (6e026c)

  123. “But Sammy didn’t advance this idea as a formal proof, he threw it out there as his “theory”.”

    Former Conservative – He threw it out there as a statement of fact. I quoted his words exactly. What part reflected opinion or theory?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  124. “My personal preferences are irrelevant in any of this.”

    Former Conservative – Of course. Which groups are you feeling superior to today?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  125. Funny, the scientists and mathematicians I know are mostly believers.

    In fact I would say that in my personal experience, the more intelligent and the higher-skilled the scientist or mathematician, the more likely they believe in God.

    A real scientist has to admit that he can’t know everything, that some things remain axioms and others won’t be discovered in his lifetime and finally that new evidence can always come out that upends his entire core of knowledge.

    When taken honestly, these characteristics make for the greatest scientists and naturally lead to a belief in God.

    Only the hidebound, politics-playing, consensus clock-punchers become atheists.

    luagha (5cbe06)

  126. The part where he called it a theory, daleyrocks. Read it again.

    Former Conservative (d46add)

  127. According to the paper, an “elderly woman wheeling a shopping cart” told Weiner, “I’m not voting for uh, what’s her name? The dyke.”

    “Okay. I just need you to sign the petition to get me on the ballot,” Weiner said.

    He looked at the Washington Post reporter, and added, “And you really shouldn’t talk that way about people,” according to the newspaper’s account. “Oh, I’m sorry,” the woman said. “It’s okay,” Weiner responded.

    “It’s not your fault.”

    No, Mr. Weeniewagger. The only correct response was, “If you hate, I don’t want you”. The smart one, too.

    nk (875f57)

  128. “The part where he called it a theory, daleyrocks. Read it again.”

    Former Conservative – Try again. Sammy was responding to DRJ about a Sean Trende article attempting to explain the drop off in white voter turnout. Sammy’s theory was that it was due to voter ID, part of which was explained by the FACT that “Elderly people disproportionately lack ID.”

    What is your native language?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  129. My theory is the voter ID laws contributed to it.

    Former Conservative (105295)

  130. Former Conservative – Try again. Sammy was responding to DRJ about a Sean Trende article attempting to explain the drop off in white voter turnout. Sammy’s theory was that it was due to voter ID, part of which was explained by the FACT that “Elderly people disproportionately lack ID.”

    Oh for goodness sakes, daleyrocks.

    He introduced it as a theory, then explained the details of his theory in the next para.

    My theory is the voter ID laws contributed to it.

    Elderly people disproportionately lack ID, because they may not drive any more if they did before, or because they never needed ID in the past, and elderly voters also tend to vote republicvana dn are more white.

    He doesn’t need to write the word “theory” every third word. Jeez Louise.

    Former Conservative (105295)

  131. Elderly people are – by and large – about as old school as you can be and they are certainly astute enough to have ID, and, in fact, are disgusted by anyone who doesn’t have it. The Democrat argument re: voter ID doesn’t register with them.

    Colonel Haiku (0ad1c4)

  132. That’s one of the counterpoints I was thinking about, Colonel Haiku, that they would be more organized. However, the idea is still plausible and it’s something one could do a survey on if one wanted. One thing, though, is since elderly people tend to vote at higher percentages, any disruption in their voting could have disproportionate effects. Just a thought in favor of Sammy’s idea.

    Point being he didn’t misstate facts as daleyrocks said: he was merely explaining the hypothesis.

    Former Conservative (105295)

  133. Former Conservative,

    I agree with Daleyrocks that Sammy said his theory for white voter drop off was due to the premise (stated as a fact) that elderly lack ID. This is something that comes up a lot when discussing things with Sammy. He can be unclear about what parts of his comment need evidence to support them, which makes it difficult to buy into his theories or really understand how serious he is about some of his views. But Sammy is good people… I don’t recall him ever being ugly to anyone. I just think Daley wants to point out that Sammy’s theory rests on an unproven premise that shouldn’t have been asserted as fact.

    Col Haiku is right. The elderly have bank accounts. They have prescriptions. They have doctors they come back to. They have had plenty of time to get ID for the other things in life, like beer. The law requires ID for any of those things. And if a voter doesn’t have ID, it is good to encourage them to get one, and also good to challenge whether they are eligible to vote if they refuse. After all, plenty of people would vote multiple times under multiple aliases if they could get away with it. There are cheaters out there, and anything valuable should be handled with some form of verification, a vote included.

    BTW, Mr Conservative,

    I’ll take you at your word about your IQ relative to religions you dislike as well as your constant notifications about your esteem. You have certainly impressed all of us. Congratulations on being so great. I think some of my less charitable friends here have misunderstood your need to impress for insecurity and thus associate you with an unstable guy, Christoph. The problem with that guy was not that he got testy, but that he seemed to start testy… kinda like he had a bunch of built up angst at everyone. Of course you have no such angst as you’re so new here.

    I think DRJ is very wise and I follow her lead as far as not playing hall monitor goes. If you understand how you come across (weird), then by all means carry on. It is funny.

    Dustin (e5e0b7)

  134. I agree with Daleyrocks that Sammy said his theory for white voter drop off was due to the premise (stated as a fact) that elderly lack ID.

    Ah, well, then I stand corrected (at least until he clarified). You know him better than I do. I didn’t read it that way. Still an interesting idea, and who knows?

    I just think Daley wants to point out that Sammy’s theory rests on an unproven premise that shouldn’t have been asserted as fact.

    Yes, I agree with that. I took Sammy’s speculation as part of hypothesis, and not unreasonable mental spitballing.

    I’ll take you at your word about your IQ relative to religions you dislike ….

    Well it isn’t quite that simple. There are cultural variances, after all. Jews include some of the smartest people on the planet — although I’d still guess that their top scientists are probably not the most religious Jews (depending on field: a lot of medical people tend to be religious for example).

    It’s an unpopular topic — as Jason Richwine discovered — and is unlikely to win many friends. Fortunately, some intellectually courageous people like Michelle Malkin do not automatically get their panties in a knot.

    It is one of those things I wouldn’t mind being proven wrong about in the slightest. But I doubt that I’m wrong, having looked into fairly extensively.

    Former Conservative (105295)

  135. *clarifies

    Former Conservative (105295)


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