Patterico's Pontifications

4/30/2013

Benghazi Whistleblowers Lawyer Up

Filed under: General — JD @ 9:22 am

[guest post by JD]

It seems they needed to lawyer up, as they have been threatened about testifying to Congress. . Nice career you have there, it would be a shame if something happened to it.

Rep. Gowdy says there are more hearings to come.

In other news, the MFM and Obama want to talk about a gay journeyman basketball player.

UPDATE –

Benghazi illustrates everything that is wrong with this Administration — stupidity, lies and coverups, corruption, and a complacent media.

Comment by DRJ

That is all.

Updated x2 – maybe not … Thanks to Dana.

President Obama on Tuesday said he was unaware of complaints from Benghazi whistleblowers inside his own administration who contend that they are being intimidated over their cooperation with investigators into the September 2012 attack, but pledged to look into the matter.
“I’m not familiar with this notion that anybody’s been blocked from testifying,” Mr. Obama said in response to a question during a press conference in the White House briefing room. “What I’ll do is find out what exactly you’re referring to.”

This is deceitful and unbelievable on many levels. From an Admin that boasts of being the most wired in, and Teh One, who is the most sophisticated consumer of information ever to grace the White House, it is extraordinary that he could claim to have never heard of this, given the very public statements by Victoria Toensing just yesterday. To claim to not even know what they are referring to in the question posed is astounding. Couple that with the fact that the survivors have been kept from the public since September, by HIS ADMINISTRATION, for him to utter that and a wormhole not immediately envelope the room is remarkable.

—JD

253 Responses to “Benghazi Whistleblowers Lawyer Up”

  1. Nothing to see here.

    JD (b63a52)

  2. Of course not. Private sex lives are MUCH more important than dead Americans.

    I mean, I really should start shouting in the streets that I have heterosexual sex with my wife and start demanding parades in my honor in every city across the land.

    © Sponge (8110ec)

  3. I watched the President’s news conference this morning and interestingly, when asked about this by Ed Henry, the president was less than forthcoming,

    President Obama on Tuesday said he was unaware of complaints from Benghazi whistleblowers inside his own administration who contend that they are being intimidated over their cooperation with investigators into the September 2012 attack, but pledged to look into the matter.

    “I’m not familiar with this notion that anybody’s been blocked from testifying,” Mr. Obama said in response to a question during a press conference in the White House briefing room. “What I’ll do is find out what exactly you’re referring to.”

    “What I’ve been very clear about from the start — our job with respect to Benghazi is to find out exactly what happened … and bring those who carried it out to justice,” he added.

    Dana (292dcf)

  4. “Shut up. slave!”

    mojo (8096f2)

  5. Have we seen this pattern of threatening people prior to potential testimony before Congress or other regulatory bodies from the Obama Administration before?

    scratches head

    Why yes, yes we have.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  6. I posted the link from the Washington Times – the link option at this site doesn’t appear to be working.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/30/obama-unfamiliar-benghazi-whistle-blower-complaint/

    On a side note, I see then when Googling President Obama + Benghazi Witnesses Testifying,none of the big outlets are reporting it. Yet, anyway.

    Dana (292dcf)

  7. President Obama on Tuesday said he was unaware of complaints from Benghazi WHISTLEBLOWERS INSIDE HIS OWN ADMINISTRATION who contend that they are being intimidated over their cooperation with investigators into the September 2012 attack, but pledged to look into the matter.

    Dana (292dcf)

  8. Have we seen a pattern of retaliation against people who dare to put information out contrary to the approved narrative by the Obama Administration before?

    scratches head

    Why yes, yes we have.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  9. The Chicago way.

    We saw this all the way at the beginning with that poor IG they publicly denounced as crazy before firing (unlawfully).

    Because of the way our media works, democrats seem to have no sense about justice or accountability. Who is going to call them out? Fox News? Rush Limbaugh? They don’t care about that.

    This is why it’s smarter to elect even the dumbest and softest RINO than one of the MSM’s own party. Accountability will prevent corruption.

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  10. “but pledged to look into the matter”

    Dana – Some time in 2017 probably.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  11. Benghazi illustrates everything that is wrong with this Administration — stupidity, lies and coverups, corruption, and a complacent media.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  12. This is why it’s smarter to elect even the dumbest and softest RINO than one of the MSM’s own party. Accountability will prevent corruption

    No more calls, please. We have a winner in the “Dumbest Internet Comment” contest.

    lyle (575db9)

  13. ‘Maybe I Should Just Pack Up and Go Home. Golly.’

    Now you’re getting warm. Resign and GTFO.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  14. lyle,

    I think my argument makes a lot of sense. The media will hold a Republican’s feet to the fire, and a Republican administration will be fully aware of that. And they simply won’t do the same to/for a Democrat administration, leading to the repeat incidences we’ve seen of corruption in the past few years, as well as the issues during the Clinton administration.

    You just didn’t see this during the Bush years. The worse they got was firing a few US Attorneys, which wasn’t even wrong!

    If your response is “you’re dumb”, I am wasting my time to respond to you. What about my view do you differ with?

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  15. “We have a winner in the “Dumbest Internet Comment” contest.”

    lyle – I for one am impressed by the amazing success of perpetually blue states and cities which lack accountability. Can you explain the secrets of their success?

    Wake up!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  16. All the newsies are squawking about awesome it was that the President called Jason Collins congratulating him. And yet he has no idea about whistleblowers and will “look in to the matter”…

    Who the hell cares that Mr. Collins decides to speak out when there are four Americans that were killed and our very own SoS slaps down Congress and all Americans that care, with her “What difference does it make?”

    Well, that’s what I say in part to Mr. Collins, but most specifically and with serious disappointment in and to President Obama, What difference does it make? – we have four dead Americans!

    Dana (292dcf)

  17. Dana, that’s an annoying problem. I saw Obama carefully pick a (poor) NCAA bracket not long after I was told the Benghazi mistakes make no difference (and are apparently not important to discuss).

    Of course I can’t really say that if Obama spent half the time he spends golfing on ensuring his administration is ethical that we’d be better off. He’s got no reason to clean up his act. The MSM simply does not care enough about the ethics of a democrat administration.

    It took years and billions for any MSM outlet to take the Pigford issue seriously, and now they probably consider that issue closed. They will actively keep serious issues insulated from election time. So Obama can relax and call basketball players while whistleblowers take a second mortgage to pay their lawyers.

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  18. President Obama on Tuesday said he was unaware of complaints from Benghazi whistleblowers inside his own administration who contend that they are being intimidated over their cooperation with investigators into the September 2012 attack…

    I’m sure glad “the Obama administration” isn’t a drinking game like “Hi Bob” was when the Bob Newhart show was on. My liver would be shot.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  19. 14, 15. Wake up!

    Uh, sorry Lyle, many of us here are so tired of repulsing the lame and misguided with logic, simile and outright abuse till we drop from exhaustion that we have no support to offer you.

    Carry on Pilgrim, sojourner in a foreign land, you’re earning friends in paradise.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  20. “All the newsies are squawking about awesome it was that the President called Jason Collins congratulating him. And yet he has no idea about whistleblowers and will “look in to the matter”… ”

    Dana – I think it’s just great that President Gutsy Call just spent four months community organizing on an issue only 4% of Americans are concerned about and then got all stompy foot pouty faced when he couldn’t get legislation through Congress which didn’t even address the problem he claimed he was trying to solve. He needs to spend more time golfing and vacationing, already double the amount he has spent screwing up our economy, than pretending to govern.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  21. Let’s see … What does it take to get a phone call from Teh One? Sandra Fluck. NBA journeyman going into free agency for the final time. Left to be slaughtered in an American embassy? Oops, my bad.

    JD (b63a52)

  22. Thanks for the moral support anyway, gg.

    Sorry, Dustin, electing RINOs is part of the reason we’re in this mess. (cf. J. S. McCain, media whore, AZ, inter alia). And, FTR, I didn’t call you dumb, I called your comment dumb.

    Daleyrocks: I’m either too dense or your comment is too cryptic. Or both.

    lyle (575db9)

  23. lyle – I don’t think it’s my comment.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  24. Updated due to DRJ’s flawless and succinct observation.

    JD (b63a52)

  25. Benghazi illustrates everything that is wrong with this Administration — stupidity, lies and coverups, corruption, and a complacent complicit media.

    You may give them the benefit of the doubt. I don’t.

    Dana (292dcf)

  26. Good point.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  27. 15. “the amazing success of perpetually blue states”

    High water mark of the blue state Indie=RINO esperamentos:

    Scott Brown was just about our least objectionable to all parties example of partisan-disarming comity as one could imagine. And he did so well bending over backward a corrupt ideologue incompetent kicked his butt.

    Manage the decline.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  28. Updated to highlight a quote from Dana

    JD (b63a52)

  29. Obama’s lack of knowledge is probably genuine, and reflects his aloof attitude towards this whole issue. Only when it affects HIM directly (e.g. the moderator-assisted debate zinger) does he take interest, and only so far as his interests go.

    He will ask an aide to “get to the bottom of it” and never think of it again. The aide, of course, knows that he is not to report back, lest Teh One be bothered with things he has no interest in.

    As for gay basketball players — basketball interests Obama, so it should interest all of us.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  30. You’ve seen ‘Rules of Engagement’ the oily national security advisor is quite aware of the exculpatory nature of the tape, for the marine being prosecuted so he has it deleted, in this case, it exists, but ‘what difference does it make, it isn’t referred,
    among other things, the mastermind was someone released from Gitmo.

    narciso (c62917)

  31. Sorry, Dustin, electing RINOs is part of the reason we’re in this mess.

    No kidding, but the media won’t cut them any slack. If you try to read my comment more carefully I’m clearly not in favor of RINOs, but concede they are a lot better than democrats because the media won’t go this far to cover for them.

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  32. Dustin, #14: The substantive problem with electing Rino’s is that they muddy the waters. They basically agree with progressives but argue, probably correctly, that they manage better. The unfortunate result of this is that the electorate is now convinced that both parties are the same, except around the margins. Because of this temporizing, we have spokemen for the Republican party who are quite happy characterizing fascism as “crony capitalism”, suggesting to pliable minds that this is an evolution of free market capitalism, whereas it is really the forerunner of the calamity that Benjamin Franklin warned us about. Rinos simply don’t know any better, and besides, they would do a better job of giving money to their buddies if they had the chance. And their regulations would only be for the good of everyone not just the greenies.

    We need voices who will make the issues clear to the electorate. Rinos, even carefully watched Rinos, are incapable of this. They don’t understand the principles of free markets and liberty. Even if they are subject to retribution by the MSM if they cross some PC boundary.

    bobathome (c0c2b5)

  33. First, Obama isn’t looking in to anything except Reggie Loves lovely brown eyes. Benghazi happened nearly 8 months ago. It’s a cover up. The easiest and most obvious cover in the world. Second, the MFM are all libs. They don’t TRY to be libs, they are libs. In other words, they root for the home team.
    As for blue cities and states. Only a pathetic libtard would deny the obvious.

    Gus (694db4)

  34. we need to make it to where you can’t buy guns with food stamps

    that’s the kind of commonsense reform we can ALL get behind

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  35. Dustin, the left does not differentiate RINOS from Conservative Republicans. They kicked McCain squarely in the balls after praising him for being a Maverick.
    There is a difference between negligence….RINOS,
    and Marxists….Democrats.

    Gus (694db4)

  36. happyfeet, if we want to turn this country around, we need to have background checks for all purchases of stolen guns in urban Chicago.

    Gus (694db4)

  37. FWIW I was lazy and used the term whistleblowers, as we don’t know what they will say. They might be witnesses, truth tellers, or any number of different descriptors.

    JD (32eeec)

  38. Hard fouls and banging with Shaq… that Collins fella will be retiring soon…

    Colonel Haiku (ec1f48)

  39. My brother is State Dept Diplomatic Security. Because of Benghazi, after 3 years serving in the middle east 2 in Jordan, 1 in Iraq, he and his family came home last summer, and my brother was sent back out to Tunisia. I’ve said for years, that Rodham has ZERO skills and zero diplomatic experience, yet she was running the State Dept. That is criminal. The best part of this whole COVER UP, was when Rodham gave her little speech in front of the 4 coffins. She told the families and the world, that she had nothing to do with that terrible video. People are dead, and she continues to try to cover her fat ass.

    Gus (694db4)

  40. Well, never underestimate the ability of the one+co. to somehow spin the Benghazi stuff now and make it a big deal- for awhile- so our outrage over the Boston bomber investigation and the unknown Saudi is allowed to lapse, and about the time things look bad with Benghazigate we’ll get back to the Boston bomber

    at least that’s how some would play it.

    Some basic things remain basic, the bottom line is that individual people need to have the courage to stand up and tell the truth in order for justice to prevail. God bless them.

    If the Koch bros buy the LAT, between them and Beck’s Blaze and Blaze TV there may be enough jobs for real journalists and political analysts and commentators who were fired from somewhere else for telling the truth.

    Painted Jaguar (a sockpuppet) (3d3f72)

  41. Sorry, that was me, not Painted Jaguar.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  42. Christie looks like a fool. He’s getting his ample arse handed to him.

    Gus (694db4)

  43. Here is a transcript of President Obama’s news conference:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/01/us/politics/transcript-of-obamas-news-conference.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    I always have a hard time finding a transcript – well maybe not such a hard time that I know already, but it is not so easy. I didn’t find it on the White House web site, although it should be there by now, but who knows how it is listed, the Washington Post wants to show it in pieces, and the New York Times doesn’t have it (yet – it showed some previous ones) when searching from its home page, but Google turnmed it up.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  44. 23.lyle – I don’t think it’s my comment

    Of course not.

    lyle (be622d)

  45. The size of Christie’s ass is only surpassed by teh size of his eg0.

    Colonel Haiku (bc70c7)

  46. but concede they are a lot better than democrats because the media won’t go this far to cover for them

    Yes they will…if the RINO furthers their cause.

    lyle (be622d)

  47. Mr. Gus chicago definitely needs special attention

    Police: Woman Set Fire Because Husband Smoked All The Pot

    http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/04/30/police-woman-set-fire-because-husband-smoked-all-the-pot/

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  48. “High water mark of the blue state Indie=RINO esperamentos”

    gary – Don’t understand your comment? Do you put California, Illinois, New York, New Jersey, Detroit in same category as Massachusetts? Also, my comment was focused on state level, not federal level like Brown as a Senator. Massachusetts is a liberal hellhole politically, but I don’t think they’ve screwed up their economy as completely as the other places I’ve mentioned.

    You’re welcome lyle.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  49. There is a cancer growing on the presidency.

    With all due respect for the high office Mr Obama currently occupies, it’s clear as a bell the criminal conspiracy to cover-up the deadly events in Benghazi and to silence eye-witnesses and whistleblowers is centered in the White House under his direct control and involves top appointees in his office, and his cabinet, as well as at the Pentagon, the UN, and throughout the national intelligence apparatus.

    It is just as clear the conspiracy is aided and abetted by members of the professional media and their national broadcast and print organizations, many Democrats in Congress, left-leaning political consultants, and influential public personalities. Their individual and collective involvement indelibly marks them as criminal co-conspirators operating to obfuscate the facts and to stonewall and to deceive Congressional oversight committees and the American people as to the true facts surrounding the bloody terror filled night of 9/11 of 2012 when brave Americans fighting for their lives waited in vain for help from their Commander-in-Chief that never came.

    Barack Obama’s malfeasance disqualifies him from continuing the occupy the Oval Office, however it is yet to be determined if his political allies will succeed in pulling the wool over the American people’s eyes and pretending the President of the United States didn’t betray those brave Americans in Benghazi and then hide behind women to cover-up his cowardly crime.

    ropelight (71a2b9)

  50. Every individual person on the right and libertarian right in the USA is entitled to his or her own opinions about what they believe and why– and what role(s) the government should have and not have –and using their own experiences ascertain how the tenets of limited government must operate to function in their own particular electoral milieu. There are shades of rightism and everyone should have the freedom to express that. Leftists with their slander and idiotic nomenclature for the right are another matter entirely to fight against. But what none of us has the right to do is to dictate whom else among us can officially be called a Republican or a Conservative, or to decide who may be allowed to call themselves a Republican or Conservative.

    RINO is a deeply offensive and counterproductive term to use against people just because you may not agree with them 100% or even 75%. Yes it is.

    elissa (f99a6e)

  51. RINO is a deeply offensive and counterproductive term to use against people just because you may not agree with them 100% or even 75%. Yes it is

    Deeply offensive? Pulleeeeez. I can think of several terms more offensive than this. Try me.

    lyle (be622d)

  52. “This is deceitful and unbelievable on many levels. From an Admin that boasts of being the most wired in, and Teh One, who is the most sophisticated consumer of information ever to grace the White House, it is extraordinary that he could claim to have never heard of this, ”

    Valerie just hasn’t told him about it yet.

    Mike K (dc6ffe)

  53. lyle, i concede that the media can cover for rinos at times… mccain even called them a friend.

    but a republican administration would not enjoy this friendship whatsoever.

    rino senators certainly do.

    __________________

    elissa, it isnt my intention to offend you, but i do intend the term rino to be insulting.

    i greatly disagree with rinoinitiatives such as amnesty, romney style gun taxws, and romneycare style government forced commerce.

    in many cases, i find rinos to be very dishonest about their actual views or loyalties. bloomberg and spector are great examples. being a moderate is an easier way to gain access to political power… do many who take this path will let us down when the going gets tough. the last truly rino admin by my measure was nixon’s. the bushes were moderate and spendy, but also i think too sincere to truly earn the rino insult (many will disagree)

    but as i said above… republican admins will face more accountability and get away with less. thus even if policy wont be advanced much for conservatives and the politician is pure cynicism, we have more protection.

    dustin (86a5d6)

  54. this contraption makes it tricky to type! sorry for the typos.

    elissa, i dont know anyone who calls someone a rino for falling short of 100 percent agreement. can you provide any examples of what you are talking about?

    i think many are frustrated with ever increasing spending and control. its worse under the current admin… actually far worse, but we are frustrated it still heads in the wrong direction with both parties.

    im convinced we need a balanced budget amendment among other reforms because our prettiest and best funded candidates cannot be relied on.

    dustin (86a5d6)

  55. 49. Esperamentos is a made up word, unsuccessfully so. MA perhaps the most successful blue state, we’re cutting Dhimmis a break as the principle is robust.

    Coaxing subtards over to the dark side is a hopeless own goal, all one accomplishes is demonstrating constipation and consequent Rectum Envy.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  56. 52. “just because you may not agree with them 100% or even 75%. ”

    So, ‘lissa, you’re saying you agree with mg or myself, oh 70% of the time?

    DIABLO then?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  57. Dustin, don’t worry. You do not offend me and my earlier comment was not directed at you. But as one of the more thoughtful and insightful commenters here I hope you can understand that the term Republican In Name Only is really just a cheap and meaningless school yard taunt. It is based on no real, or approved, or unambiguous, or unequivocal definition of what a real Republican is —only what the taunter (who is absolutely sure he’s the one who’s the real Republican) personally thinks the definition of Republican is.

    I know many people use the term RINO as shorthand. But shorthand for what? What if RINO means different things to different people? How does that move the dialogue in any meaningful way?

    Yeah. I guess it’s a pet peeve of mine. What can I say?

    elissa (f99a6e)

  58. Lucky thing Dog and Bibi get along so well, filthy Jews just took the blame for not waiting to sort out the Syrian mess in bombing a chemical weapons compound near Damascus.

    Holy War! Dang, ululating makes me cough.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  59. thanks for the kind reply, elissa.

    after all the infighting… and im certainly no angel.. who can blame you for having a pet peeve that has republicans and conservatives fighting?

    it wouldnt kill me to be more charitable (and i realize you werent talking to me).

    indeed rino means different things to many and is a lazier way of saying i disagree with someone’s authenticity and views.

    dustin (86a5d6)

  60. @57–heh,GG. Frankly, I don’t know what percentage of the time you and I are in agreement because very often my feeble brain cannot decipher your code. But based on your excellent links to zero hedge I’m pretty sure we’re at least on the same side. And that’s good enough for me.

    elissa (f99a6e)

  61. republicans are the ones what failed to defeat the fascists in consecutive elections early in the 21st century then they went away

    it was in a documentary on netflix is where I saw it I think

    they said the RINOs were absorbed by the fascists without any trouble so they didn’t have to go to the camps, so they were lucky

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  62. With all due respect for the high office Mr Obama currently occupies, it’s clear as a bell the criminal conspiracy to cover-up the deadly events in Benghazi and to silence eye-witnesses and whistleblowers is centered in the White House under his direct control and involves top appointees in his office, and his cabinet, as well as at the Pentagon, the UN, and throughout the national intelligence apparatus.

    It is just as clear the conspiracy is aided and abetted by members of the professional media and their national broadcast and print organizations, many Democrats in Congress, left-leaning political consultants, and influential public personalities.

    Comment by ropelight (71a2b9) — 4/30/2013 @ 1:06 pm

    Of course it’s clear. Even the video story was a lie from the start. The groups that organized the protest outside the Cairo embassy issued press releases about the planned protest, and it wasn’t over the video. The protest was to demand the release of prisoners in US captivity, particularly the “Blind Sheikh,” Abdel-Rahman. Raymond Ibrahim, who’s transliterations from Arabic to English are a valuable resource, had this on both his personal website and PJ media the day before the protest in Cairo:

    http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/jihadis-threaten-to-burn-u-s-embassy-in-cairo/

    by Raymond Ibrahim • Sep 10, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    Jihadi groups in Egypt, including Islamic Jihad, the Sunni Group, and Al Gamaa Al Islamiyya have issued a statement threatening to burn the U.S. Embassy in Cairo to the ground. According to El Fagr, they are calling for the immediate release of the Islamic jihadis who are imprisonment and in detention centers in the U.S. including Guantanamo Bay: “The group, which consists of many members from al-Qaeda, called [especially] for the quick release of the jihadi [mujahid] sheikh, Omar Abdul Rahman [the “Blind Sheikh”], whom they described as a scholar and jihadi who sacrificed his life for the Egyptian Umma, who was ignored by the Mubarak regime, and [President] Morsi is refusing to intervene on his behalf and release him, despite promising that he would. The Islamic Group has threatened to burn the U.S. Embassy in Cairo with those in it, and taking hostage those who remain [alive], unless the Blind Sheikh is immediately released.”

    The press was well aware of the protest and it’s purpose. Here’s video from CNN:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tPszLCEyu-I

    (Note: whoever uploaded got the title wrong. Muhammad al-Zawahiri is of course Ayman al-Zawahiri’s brother, the leader of Al Qaeda.)

    This shows a) the protest was not over a video and everyone in Cairo knew it and b) the press despite covering the protest and its purpose facilitated the Obama administration lie as soon as they received their new marching orders. CNN and others immediately went along with a lie for which there was zero evidence and ignored what their own cameras captured. So this should remove all doubt; the media is complicit in the lie.

    I won’t link to all the other evidence that I provided at the time to prove the administration was lying through its teeth about the Benghazi attack. There was no protest. As I said at the time, you simply can’t assault a building in a city like Benghazi and not have eyewitnesses. Libyan eyewitnesses saw Ansar al Sharia setting up barricades to reroute traffic well before the assault. There was no protest. The state department was in constant contact with their diplomatic security officer in the compound’s TOC. He reported nothing unusual prior to the assault. Famously, when asked about the story of a protest over a video the state department officials who put together their timeline said it didn’t come from them.

    There was no protest. There was no fog of war. There were forces within range. Every single thing this administration has said is a lie.

    One final thought. At a press briefing a State Dept. spokesman was asked about the location of the survivors he said that they had recovered and were reassigned to posts all over the world. This administration has done this before. Recall during the Fast & Furious investigation a WH national security staffer, Kevin O’Reilly, who had been in regular contact with the Arizona ATF agent running the operation was suddenly transferred to Baghdad to keep him out of reach of the committee.

    You know who else did this? The Japanese navy right after it blundered into a catastrophic defeat at Midway. Those injured in the defeat were, like the Benghazi wounded, hospitalized in secrecy. As soon as they healed they too were sent to the far corners of the empire where they couldn’t tell anyone of any significance about what they witnessed.

    Oh, yeah, this is a criminal conspiracy to cover up the truth about Benghazi.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  63. Dustin, I’ll give you an example of a RINO. Susan Collins (R-ME).

    Here are her ratings as reported by The Hill:

    http://thehill.com/resources/lawmaker-ratings/76095-sen-susan-collins-r-maine

    I’d say when NARAL gives you a 95 rating while the National Right to Life give you a 33, when the American Conservative Union gives you a 48 while Americans for Democratic Action give you a 75, and Gun Owners of America gives you an F then you really are a Republican In Name Only.

    Those numbers rightly belong to a Democrat. She votes with us less than half the time. And when she does vote for bigger, more expensive, more intrusive government she makes a big deal out of it.

    I’m not going to dig up the numbers on Olympia Snowe but I’m sure she matches up closely with Collins.

    What would you call her?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  64. ==What would you call her?==

    Easy. I’d call her a Republican from a weird-ish state which keeps re-electing her because they obviously like her and like the way she represents them.

    elissa (f99a6e)

  65. “What would you call her?”

    Senator

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  66. “What would you call her?”
    depressing.

    mg (31009b)

  67. I vote for “daffy lobsterpot bim”

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  68. 65. ==What would you call her?==

    Easy. I’d call her a Republican from a weird-ish state which keeps re-electing her because they obviously like her and like the way she represents them.

    Comment by elissa (f99a6e) — 4/30/2013 @ 4:35 pm

    The flaw with that thinking is that Paul LePage demonstrated someone far more conservative than the Maine girls in the Senate can get elected in a statewide election. He demonstrated that when he became governor in 2011.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  69. Still to be fully explained is the story about the one ex-SEAL who was killed with mortar fire after supposedly “painting a target” with a laser. The military folk say he wouldn’t have done that unless he had reason to believe there was something in the sky at that moment that was going to fire on the target, otherwise all he was going to do was pinpoint his own location and get killed, which he did.

    I would not be surprised to find out that just as a drone or something was going to fire it was told to stand down
    and nobody has the testicular fortitude to say so.

    Any military people, if you were in the chain of command, or a witness, and knew the CIC told them to stand down and later lied about it to the public, where would your lawful allegiance lie?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  70. “President Obama on Tuesday said he was unaware of complaints from Benghazi whistleblowers inside his own….”

    you are right it is deceitful.

    But then again, remember when the Tea Party cam einto existence and all the gatherings and protests began? He claimed he had never hear of the Tea Partiers….. and then a few months later used the term baggers.

    jb (997cad)

  71. 61. “feeble”

    No worries, I struggle at turns to put ‘sense’ in before the aggregate hardens.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  72. 71. I also wonder whether, when it comes to politicians whose priority is survival at any cost, it actually matters how they grade out.

    They are unreliable, reeds in the wind, and need retirement in any event.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  73. don’t much care for them myself

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  74. “The flaw with that thinking is that Paul LePage demonstrated someone far more conservative than the Maine girls in the Senate can get elected in a statewide election.”

    Steve57 – The flaw with that thinking is believing Paul LePage’s election is not an aberration.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  75. all you need to know about RINOs is two words: Arlen Specter

    these people are whores of the most loathsome variety what would pimp their country out to fascists for but the barest ghost of a chance of holding on to power

    it’s who they are

    your meghan’s coward daddies your lobsterpot bimbos your weirdo geriatric grassleys your greasy johnny “cash for clunkers – but for home buyers!” isakson your lapdoggy lindseys and your loathsome whore murkowskis

    americans are less free and their little country is evermore the province of fascists and whores for their having served

    nasty parasitic vermin is what they are

    they make me sick

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  76. “these people are whores of the most loathsome variety what would pimp their country out to fascists for but the barest ghost of a chance of holding on to power”

    Mr. Feets – Just like the ones what whore themselves out to the fetus flensing and SSM lobbies akuz it’s popular is what I see.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  77. you’re overthinking it

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  78. Mr. Feets – I’m thinking it just right I think.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  79. 72. Any military people, if you were in the chain of command, or a witness, and knew the CIC told them to stand down and later lied about it to the public, where would your lawful allegiance lie?

    Comment by MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 4/30/2013 @ 6:41 pm

    Unfortunately it’s not a question of allegiance, Doc. It’s a question of practicality. Trying to document your chain of command’s wrongdoing makes you look awfully like Bradley Manning.

    That doesn’t do much for your credibility.

    On the other hand, without documentation it’s just your word against theirs.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  80. maybe I guess but what I been noticing is the bestest bff of abortion and SSM is the same tired unctuous loser the Team Rs keep nominating for president – that guy always does the heavy lifting

    the second bestest bff is me cause I believe people should be free to make up their own minds about stuff like whether or not to have an abortion or whether or not to get gay married

    then I’m followed by assorted freakshows like Akin and Mourdock and Gingrey and Walsh – they really serve as the abortion rearguard and man they do a great job

    followed by the propaganda slut news media

    followed by Jessica Alba

    followed by Joss Whedon

    followed by Barry Diller

    followed by Flo the Progressive Insurance hooch who makes them a lot of money what they in turn give to fascists

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  81. as you can clearly see Mr. daley I’ve thought about this a lot whilst nevertheless pulling up just shy of overthinking it

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  82. 77. “The flaw with that thinking is that Paul LePage demonstrated someone far more conservative than the Maine girls in the Senate can get elected in a statewide election.”

    Steve57 – The flaw with that thinking is believing Paul LePage’s election is not an aberration.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/30/2013 @ 8:06 pm

    Let’s cut to the chase; from a party standpoint what’s the point of having a couple of Senators with an “R” after their names when team D can count on them more dependably than team R can?

    They do some good for Obama; he can claim he has bipartisan support if he can peel one of the Maine girls.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  83. preach it brother 57 that’s gospel truth and a perspicacious thing it is

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  84. “Leftists with their slander and idiotic nomenclature for the right are another matter entirely to fight against. But what none of us has the right to do is to dictate whom else among us can officially be called a Republican or a Conservative, or to decide who may be allowed to call themselves a Republican or Conservative.”

    – elissa

    That seems like a very strange sentiment.

    Leviticus (17b7a5)

  85. In any case, I was providing an example of a RINO.

    “That’s the best we can do in Maine” does not refute the assertion that Collins is a RINO.

    She does have ratings worthy of a Democrat.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  86. if only we get enough lobsterpot bimbos Mitch McConnell will once again bestride washington like a colossus!

    and probably to the exact same effect as last time he bestrode but still that would be better than a sharp stick in the eye huh

    yup 4 out of 5 dentists surely would agree

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  87. all you need to know about RINOs is two words: Arlen Specter

    these people are whores of the most loathsome variety

    Coming from you, happyfeet, with your ongoing resentment towards anyone who doesn’t buy into the GLBT agenda — and, in turn, your almost mimicking the part of a liberal — I think you need to look in the mirror. You and folks like Chris Christie, if not Olympia Snowe too.

    As for who deserves lots of blame for the existence of cruddy Obamaized-Clintonized politicians? I don’t lay that at the doorstep of the party hierarchy, or even on the politicians themselves. I blame most of the left-leaning lunacy of America on the squishy sentiments — the phony-baloney do-gooder biases — found in perhaps most humans.

    We have met the enemy, and he is us.

    Mark (b178ac)

  88. I was just poking around. Really, the only thing about Susan Collins that stands out from the Democrats is that they generally get a 100 rating from Naral and Collins’ rating is only 95.

    Except for Mark Pryor (D-AR) who got a 55.

    Other than that it’s a mixed bag but she’s not out of line with most Senate Democrats.

    But far be it for me to call her a RINO because?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  89. ahh yes the unicorns of the sea

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  90. ==But far be it for me to call her a RINO because?==

    Simply because it ain’t your call, Steve. You are welcome to philosophically and publicly disagree with her on any number of specific points until the cows come home. You need never vote for her if you believe she does not reflect and adhere to your personal conservative values. But if she calls herself a Republican and she runs as a Republican and the people of Maine consider her to be a Maine Republican and elect her as their senator, it is nothing short of arrogance for someone/anyone else to define her as a Republican in name only.

    elissa (f99a6e)

  91. “She does have ratings worthy of a Democrat.”

    Steve57 – Let’s cut to the chase, the only flaw in your logic is that Democrats put people up to run against both Snowe and Collins every election so they must perceive differences between them and democrats which you have yet to uncover.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  92. 93. …it is nothing short of arrogance for someone/anyone else to define her as a Republican in name only.

    Comment by elissa (f99a6e) — 4/30/2013 @ 9:35 pm

    It is nothing short of arrogance to note that Americans for Democratic Action consider her a more a reliable ally than the American Conservative Union.

    How does that work?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  93. 94. “She does have ratings worthy of a Democrat.”

    Steve57 – Let’s cut to the chase, the only flaw in your logic is that Democrats put people up to run against both Snowe and Collins every election so they must perceive differences between them and democrats which you have yet to uncover.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/30/2013 @ 9:52 pm

    You still haven’t explained what good it does to have her on the team that’s theoretically Republican.

    Again, what does “this is the best we can do in Maine” have to do with anything?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  94. Actually, daley, upon reflection it’s just as likely that there’s no difference between the Democrats running against the Maine girls and the Senators they’ve already got, so why not stick with the ones with seniority.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  95. But if she calls herself a Republican

    “Republican” shouldn’t be seen as a substitute word for “conservative,” since there are a variety of left-leaning Republicans out there—admittedly, a small percentage, but they do exist. “Liberal Republican” is sort of similar to, but, at the same time, also like the reverse side of “conservative African-American” or “conservative gay.”

    I recall talking with a black person last year, and the irony was that while he is very liberal (surprise, surprise!) — and therefore supposedly so tolerant, so open-minded and so non-racial about society — I’ve overheard him on occasion pointing out (or obsessing over) racial differences in a derogatory way. I retorted that instead of thinking of people along racial/ethnic lines, he should think of them based on whether they’re ultra-liberal, liberal, centrist or conservative. He looked at me with kind of a blank stare.

    Mark (b178ac)

  96. “You still haven’t explained what good it does to have her on the team that’s theoretically Republican.”

    Steve57 – I’m not trying to explain anything. I’m just countering your fundamentally flawed “there’s only one flaw” and let’s cut to the chase” arguments in which you claim without evidence there is no difference between Snowe and Collins holding the seats and the Democrats holding the seats. Clearly the Democrats who have been trying to take the seats away see it differently than you.

    Try sticking to one argument instead of moving the the goal posts around as is your habit.

    “Again, what does “this is the best we can do in Maine” have to do with anything?”

    I have no idea what you’re talking about. Are you bringing up LePage again?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  97. RINOs aren’t Republicans…

    of course, these days, most “Republicans” aren’t conservatives to begin with.

    a pox on all their houses.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  98. Oh, but there is a difference between Snowe and Collins holding those seats and Democrats holding them. We’d be better off if they were honest and had a “D” after their name because then when they followed their natural inclinations the other “Ds” couldn’t call the result bipartisan.

    Hence they are RINOs.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  99. I really don’t see what’s so hard to grasp. If you had a fullback scoring for the other team slightly more often then they score for the team they’re supposedly playing for, soon you’d kick them off the team.

    I don’t see why politics is taken less seriously.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  100. …you claim without evidence there is no difference between Snowe and Collins holding the seats and the Democrats holding the seats. Clearly the Democrats who have been trying to take the seats away see it differently than you.

    I provided the evidence. 5.

    That’s the difference, from a Democratic perspective, between Collins’ 95 rating from NARAL and the Democrat who’d replace her who’d be sure to attain a 100 rating.

    I don’t think any Democrat could hope to surpass Collins’ F rating from Gun Owner’s of America. Or several of her other ratings.

    But, again, I was providing an example of a RINO. Tell me how I didn’t?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  101. “I provided the evidence.”

    Steve57 – A NARAL rating. That’s it?

    “I really don’t see what’s so hard to grasp.”

    That has become abundantly clear.

    “I don’t think any Democrat could hope to surpass Collins’ F rating from Gun Owner’s of America. Or several of her other ratings.”

    Oh, you have not actually taken a look, though.

    “But, again, I was providing an example of a RINO. Tell me how I didn’t?”

    No, you were just making unsupported statements which continue to be just as unsupported now. I fail to grasp what is so hard to understand about that.

    “Oh, but there is a difference between Snowe and Collins holding those seats and Democrats holding them. We’d be better off if they were honest and had a “D” after their name because then when they followed their natural inclinations the other “Ds” couldn’t call the result bipartisan.”

    Except that argument doesn’t make any sense, because otherwise the Democrats would not have run people against Snowe and Collins to win the seats if they expected the votes in any event.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  102. I take it you didn’t follow the link and look at all her ratings. Because, no, it’s not just NARAL. As I pointed out earlier when you look at her ideological rating (The Hill’s term) she’s more solidly Democrat than Republican.

    Well, if you can’t be bothered to look at the data, let me sum up your argument:

    I’ve moved the goalposts.

    Yup, from:

    Susan Collins is a RINO because her ratings fit in with the Democrats

    to

    Let’s cut to the chase, what good does it do to have a RINO on the team that the Democrats can count on more dependably than the Republicans

    to

    “That’s the best Maine can do” (in terms of a Republican candidate) doesn’t change the fact she’s a RINO

    to

    If you had a fullback scoring even slightly more often for for the other team you’d kick them off the team (she’s a RINO).

    I moved the goalposts from calling Collins a RINO to calling her a RINO to calling her a RINO to calling her a RINO and saying we’d be better off without her.

    You come back with the feeble argument that the Democrats run someone against her in the general. Guess what, conservative pro-gun Dems like Pryor get primaried for the same reason the Dems sometimes run people against Senators like Collins.

    But not so far for 2014. No one has stepped up to challenge her. Which means whoever does, from here on out, isn’t serious about it.

    http://www.onlinesentinel.com/politics/senate/Sen-Collins-campaign-coffers-top-900K.html?pagenum=1

    So you’re not making any sense daley. It seems like the Dems are just fine having Collins doing their work for them.

    Plus, like I said, they’ve got a Dem that may be too conservative to suit the national party’s tastes. But hey! That gives them the aura of bipartisanship. It must be nice to have someone wearing the uniform of team R playing for team D’s side, and that’s got to be worth a few measly percentage points in her Americans for Democratic Action rating.

    Also I’ve never seen any figures that show they waste a lot of money trying to beat her.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  103. By the way, has anybody noticed that Olympia Snowe didn’t run for reelection in 2012.

    We’ve now got Angus King as the junior Senator from Maine. He’s nominally an Independent. Which means of course he chose to caucus with the Dems.

    Functionally has there been any difference between King and Snowe? Has anyone noticed the difference since Snowe’s been gone?

    Didn’t think so.

    So if Snowe can be replaced by a nominal independent who caucuses with the Dems and she’s not a RINO, what is?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  104. The progressive rino’s rule as the conservative becomes extinct.

    mg (31009b)

  105. “We’ve now got Angus King as the junior Senator from Maine. He’s nominally an Independent. Which means of course he chose to caucus with the Dems.”

    Steve57 – Why wasn’t a more conservative candidate than Angus King Jr. elected? Does that invalidate your datapoint about Paul LePage?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  106. There’s an interesting article over at Belmont Club. Richard Fernandez observes:

    http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2013/04/30/hezbollahs-challenge/#more-28790

    Hezbollah’s Challenge

    He had better hope it wasn’t the Syrian rebels who used the chems for his relief at learning that Assad had not crossed the Red Line might be tempered by the realization that al-Qaeda had. Here’s a joke about Syria that is too cruel to speak. The Good News on Syria is that Assad is losing. The Bad News is that al-Qaeda may be winning.

    But this was not a moment for such thoughts, only for mincing words and examining their meanings a process the reality based media refers to as sophistication. The President’s conduct drove Charles Krauthammer to expostulate, “chain of custody? What is this, CSI: Damascus? In the middle of a war you expect a chain of custody and decide if a weapon was used?”

    But Krauthammer should realize the President thinks that way. And this is what the judicialization of war looks like: sheltering in place, warrantless searches, rules of evidence, Miranda warnings, probable cause. Speaking of the bombing of the Boston Marathon recently the President said they were still trying to figure out what happened.

    We will not know that until the investigation of the actual crime is fully completed. That is still ongoing. But what I can say is based on what I have seen so far, the FBI performed its duties, the Department of Homeland Security did what it was supposed to be doing, but this is hard stuff.

    Hard stuff. And harder still when the primary suspects were known to the FBI, the CIA and the DHS years in advance and whose details were inscribed in the Massachusetts welfare rolls. The problem, Krauthammer argues, isn’t that the facts are foggy. The problem is that facing them is unbearable to Obama.

    So much of this is applicable to Benghazi. We knew everything we needed to know ahead of time to address the security situation at that compound. Including the most cost effective solution; follow the British lead as well as that of other western nations and abandon it. The next solution was to follow the lead of those western nations that stayed and rely on their own military forces to secure their compounds.

    We knew all the militias that were operating in the area. The Library of Congress report detailed the threat in Libya accurately, as we now know in retrospect. We knew the embassy was a target and had been attacked before.

    We knew what was going on from the beginning of the attack from the moment it happened until, at the very least, the moment Woods and Dogherty were killed. They were in constant communications. And I’m certain we knew what was going on well after that due to the presence of reconnaissance drones, which would have earlier supplemented the information we were getting from the CIA and State personnel reporting to higher echelons.

    As Fernandez observes, the facts were not as foggy as this administration wants us to now believe. The fact is they didn’t want to face them.

    -Obama was in a middle of a campaign (indeed his priority was the fund raiser in L.V.)
    -He insisted Al Qaeda had been decimated and in retreat
    -He and Hilary! insisted that the Libyans were our friends because we had liberated them.
    -Hence the lighter footprint.
    -There had to be a protest as at Cairo, and it had to somehow be our fault (hence the video)
    -None of this was the Obama administration’s fault (recall Jay Carney’s initial presser; he didn’t know any facts other than the attack was not the result of Obama administration policies)

    Bottom line is that it is hard for the Obama administration to face facts. But that’s because they’re rigid ideologues, and ideology forces you to reject facts that don’t fit.

    It’s even harder for Obama to make a decision about what to do about things. Because he’s a dithering, indecisive, inexperienced, incompetent community organizer who’s primarily concerned about his own ambitions and image. (Man, if any of those SEALs got killed or captured in Abottabad on the UBL raid that would have been really bad for Obama, wouldn’t it?) Plus he thinks talking about things is a substitute for action. He demands Congress act to implement his agenda. Problem solved, off to Chicago for a fundraiser.

    This is Obama’s pattern. You’ll see it whenever any hard choice confronts him.

    And don’t think adversaries like Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, Al Qaeda, the Muslim Brotherhood, North Korea, China, et al, haven’t noticed.

    And,unfortunately, allies like Israel, Japan, South Korea, etc.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  107. “I’ve moved the goalposts.”

    Steve57 – Absolutely. From making your own statements to asking others to prove arguments they have not advanced. I fail to grasp how that is difficult to understand.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  108. “Plus, like I said, they’ve got a Dem that may be too conservative to suit the national party’s tastes. But hey! That gives them the aura of bipartisanship.”

    Steve57 – No, you’re just reaching and making it up as you go along because you never thought your argument through.

    It is entertaining to see how far you will go.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  109. 108. Steve57 – Why wasn’t a more conservative candidate than Angus King Jr. elected? Does that invalidate your datapoint about Paul LePage?

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/1/2013 @ 8:44 am

    daley, you’re the one who is trying to move the goalposts. Dustin was offended by the term RINO. He and elissa were batting that term back and forth.

    I posited that if an officeholder who’s nominally a Republican but is a more reliable vote for the Democrats than the GOP, that pol is a RINO. Later I observed that if a nominal Republican can be replaced by an independent who is actually a run of the mill Democrat with some wildly progressive leanings (King doesn’t think Obamacare went far enough) and no one will notice, that it doesn’t alter the realm of the possible in the Senate one bit, that pol who has been replaced was a RINO.

    So the subject isn’t and never has been Maine state politics. I won’t let you bait me again.

    The subject is the meaning of the term RINO. It isn’t subjective. Charlie Crist is another example. Of course, he’s no longer a RINO. He’s dropped the mask and went Democrat.

    Can anyone seriously contend I called Charlie Crist a RINO just because I disagreed with him?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  110. So, daley, do you now want to talk Florida politics?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  111. Jim Jeffords was another prime example of a RINO. He switched to independent and caucused with the Democrats. Taking the Senate from a 50/50 split with Cheney as the tie breaker to giving the Democrats control of the Senate. He did it in exchange for committee assignments.

    The thing is, his voting pattern didn’t change. He already had the lowest ACU rating of any prior or current Senator.

    So, again, the term RINO isn’t subjective. If a Senator can switch sides, caucus with the Dems, and not move the needle on their rankings then that pol was a RINO before switching.

    “Plus, like I said, they’ve got a Dem that may be too conservative to suit the national party’s tastes. But hey! That gives them the aura of bipartisanship.”

    Steve57 – No, you’re just reaching and making it up as you go along because you never thought your argument through.

    It is entertaining to see how far you will go.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/1/2013 @ 8:54 am

    It’s a truism, daley. That’s the damage RINOs like Jeffords do. He was one of only two Republicans to vote against confirming Clarence Thomas. Thus allowing the Democrats to portray opposition to Thomas “bipartisan.” But it really wasn’t because, as with Crist, Jeffords was really a Democrat at heart.

    This truism is what makes RINOs bad things to have around.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  112. “daley, you’re the one who is trying to move the goalposts.”

    Steve57 – That must be it since I am merely responding to what you say. D’oh!

    “I moved the goalposts from calling Collins a RINO to calling her a RINO to calling her a RINO to calling her a RINO and saying we’d be better off without her.”

    I must admit there is a certain uncompelling circular logic to your argument which has caused me to decide not to investigate your argument further.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  113. That’s because it’s an observation of the obvious, daley, not an argument. I’ve never shifted the goalposts; they’ve always been firmly planted in the RINO end of the field.

    You’ve been the one trying to go off on tangents, such as exploring whether or not a more conservative Republican could have gotten elected in Maine ?!?!

    That has nothing at all to do with the definition of a RINO. Which is of course a GOP politician who has the voting record that a Democrat would be proud of. Which is an objective measure, not a subjective one.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  114. ==daley, you’re the one who is trying to move the goalposts. Dustin was offended by the term RINO. He and elissa were batting that term back and forth. (comment by steve57)==

    Steve57, OK. I think this statement where you attempt and utterly fail to sum up the earlier thread comments and players, and therefore show you misunderstood what the whole conversation with respect to the use of the word RINO was actually about, is why your later comments seemed to some of us (apparently including daleyrocks) to be so off track and hostile and goal post movish. Quite honestly, I now believe you only just skimmed the earlier comments before your RINO rocket took off, or your statements and arguments might have been very different and taken a different tone. Whatever.

    elissa (800016)

  115. elissa, this is where things started to go off the rails.

    65.

    ==What would you call her?==

    Easy. I’d call her a Republican from a weird-ish state which keeps re-electing her because they obviously like her and like the way she represents them.

    Comment by elissa (f99a6e) — 4/30/2013 @ 4:35 pm

    Which was in response to my previous comment.

    64. Dustin, I’ll give you an example of a RINO. Susan Collins (R-ME).

    Here are her ratings as reported by The Hill:

    http://thehill.com/resources/lawmaker-ratings/76095-sen-susan-collins-r-maine

    I’d say when NARAL gives you a 95 rating while the National Right to Life give you a 33, when the American Conservative Union gives you a 48 while Americans for Democratic Action give you a 75, and Gun Owners of America gives you an F then you really are a Republican In Name Only.

    Those numbers rightly belong to a Democrat. She votes with us less than half the time. And when she does vote for bigger, more expensive, more intrusive government she makes a big deal out of it.

    I’m not going to dig up the numbers on Olympia Snowe but I’m sure she matches up closely with Collins.

    What would you call her?

    Comment by Steve57 (da9e0e) — 4/30/2013 @ 4:24 pm

    It was never my intention to discuss politics in Maine, or whether or not the people who voted for her like her. But YOU brought it up, so I engaged you.

    Who tried to move the goalposts?

    So I thought it was time to bring it back to the subject I intended to discuss in response to Dustin’s comment.

    55. elissa, i dont know anyone who calls someone a rino for falling short of 100 percent agreement. can you provide any examples of what you are talking about?

    Comment by dustin (86a5d6) — 4/30/2013 @ 3:15 pm

    I didn’t see you providing any examples, so I did. I linked to Collins rankings by various groups in various policy areas and pointed out that with numbers like that she’d fit in well with the Democratic caucus.

    I’ll admit I should have responded better to your comment %65. As in not have engaged you on internal state politics, but have instead pointed out that it doesn’t matter if RINOs are popular in Maine. Collins would still fit in well with the Democratic caucus. Probably better than with the GOP caucus.

    As a matter of fact, my chief concern about Collins is that she could be the next Jim Jeffords. I can see the Democrats lobbying her hard if the GOP is on the verge of taking over the Senate just like Jeffords did in 2001.

    But the only goalpost moving I did was to respond to your comment.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  116. “You’ve been the one trying to go off on tangents, such as exploring whether or not a more conservative Republican could have gotten elected in Maine ?!?!”

    Steve57 – Examine the thread. You introduced that subject in comment 71 and are now trying to blame it on somebody else.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  117. Quite honestly, I now believe you only just skimmed the earlier comments before your RINO rocket took off, or your statements and arguments might have been very different and taken a different tone.

    I didn’t merely skim them, but going back and rereading in some sort of weird dyslexic fit I seem to have gotten your position and Dustin’s reversed.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  118. Examine the thread. elissa brought up internal Maine politics six comments earlier at #65. I was responding to that, not introducing anything.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  119. “I didn’t see you providing any examples, so I did. I linked to Collins rankings by various groups in various policy areas and pointed out that with numbers like that she’d fit in well with the Democratic caucus.”

    Steve57 – You also said it made no real difference if Republicans held on to her, which was an obvious BS argument since Democrats have been trying to take away her seat and came up with some asspull argument about them being able to crow about bipartisanship.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  120. “Examine the thread. elissa brought up internal Maine politics six comments earlier at #65. I was responding to that, not introducing anything.”

    Steve57 – I did. My point stands.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  121. Steve57 – Let’s cut to the chase. I am all for replacing moderate Republicans with more conservative ones, but that is not what you have been arguing above. It is weapons grade stupid to say we should turn over moderate Republican seats to Democrats because they essentially the same thing when Democrats don’t even believe that to be the case. Unless and until we can elect more conservative members of congress, we need to take whatever seats we can get. Elissa was stating reality and I agree with her. You and others are free to live in whatever fantasy world you choose.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  122. Steve57–the main reason I never replied to Dustin’s question @55 was that by #60 I felt it was completely unnecessary because he and I had sort of clicked and reached the denouement of that little convo sidetrack. (And it was only a small and temporary sidetrack at that point.) It could have and probably should have ended there and gone back to the actual subject of the thread–Benghazi–except you jumped in to interject talk about Collins and Maine. I know you didn’t set out to essentially monopolize the thread for 50 or so more posts but unfortunately that is what occurred. Narciso and MD who initially tried to get back to a Benghazi discussion were bowled over by the RINO tide. Others never bothered to jump in.

    elissa (800016)

  123. You have no point, daley. I didn’t introduce the subject of the voters of Maine and what kind of representation they seem to like in my comment #71. And your quotation of my comment demonstrates that fact.

    AS far as what you charmingly refer to as an “aspul argument” is again simply a truism. Two Republicans joining the Democrats equals bipartisanship. You can have 30 Democrats joining the Republicans in the house voting something up or down, and the Democrats and the WH will decry the result as an example of Republican extremism and hyper-partisanship.

    Bipartisanship is always a one way street; the GOP compromising with the Democrats to advance the Democratic agenda.

    Seriously, are you going to deny the obvious?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  124. The Benghazi witnesses who have acquired lawyers are probably being threatened with prosecution for perjury if they tell the truth. This probably does not go to Barack Obama’s level.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  125. I actually didn’t understand why we were going off in the weeds on something else. But it’s a pretty simple point.

    If you’re part of a political party, you don’t have the right to conform to the other party’s platform more often then you’re own. You have an obligation to support the party that invested time and money and utilized its party apparatus to get you elected and reelected.

    RINO is simply a term that recognizes someone is not a team player more often then not. It’s like excommunication. People who are not in communion with their church; i.e. Catholics who believe in abortion, or gay rights, or commit adultery, have excommunicated themselves. Like the term RINO, the ban of excommunication just means the organization has noticed.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  126. I mewan the moles in the CIA are threatening anyone who says something that would mean that they lied at some point to somebody.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  127. 127. This probably does not go to Barack Obama’s level.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/1/2013 @ 11:42 am

    And the Boston Marathon bombers acted by themselves.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  128. An administration that is sincere in determining what went wrong in Benghazi, and an adimistration that has nothing to hide, does not send its press secretary out to say, “Benghazi was a long time ago.”

    Elephant Stone (65a34b)

  129. Susan Rice told a lie that was dstined to fall apart – that had already. She and obama were targets of disinformation. Those people in the CIA who came up with the idea it was spontaneous did not expect them to circulate that so fast, but Obama and company liked it so much that they did.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  130. Who on this thread first mentioned the specific state and the name Susan Collins (R-ME)? For those playing at home it was comment number 64.

    Steve, talk about schoolyard. This has gotten way past ridiculous. Can we maybe do everyone else a favor and just stop now?

    elissa (800016)

  131. Sammy, the idea originated in the WH.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  132. R.I.P. Deanna Durbin

    Icy (83d5c8)

  133. 127, 129, 132. I really do admire the juggler who can keep a half-dozen variously weighted and shaped objects in the air at one time.

    I really do.

    There were a couple of dozen survivors of Benghazi, mostly CIA connected. Seemingly, no one even has a list of names let alone has talked to any of them.

    Even the bagman is aware of the fact 6 months hence.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  134. “You have no point, daley. I didn’t introduce the subject of the voters of Maine and what kind of representation they seem to like in my comment #71. And your quotation of my comment demonstrates that fact.”

    Steve57 – Of course I don’t. You are as always an innocent victim instead of a hostile douchebag who is unwilling to be challenged. Please do not gloss over anything else.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  135. Of course we can, elissa, but it’s a distortion to imply I brought up Collins because she’s a Senator from Maine.

    To bring it back to the subject at hand, Benghazi can turn south for the Obama administration very quickly. Nobody died at Watergate. Nobody died during or as a result of the Paula Jones sexual harassment trial. Four Americans died at Benghazi.

    In many ways the Benghazi attack reminds me of the USS Liberty incident. The ship was in international waters and yet it came under sustained attack by an ally. Meanwhile help was within range. Carrier jets were 10-15 minutes away. They knew what was going on. Despite Israel jamming the mayday frequencies (a war crime, by the way) the Liberty could get an SOS out.

    But, like at Benghazi, this was allowed to happen because the Johnson administration had what they considered larger concerns. And then it was covered up.

    So I have to wonder what it is about the Obama administration’s activities and objectives in the region that caused them to withdraw security, fail to respond to the attack, and then lie about the cause of the attack. Then stonewall for months. What is it that was worth American lives? What is it that they don’t want Congress to know?

    I can certainly see the possibility of an impeachable offense getting uncovered. I can also see a situation like the Clinton impeachment. The House would impeach. But would the Senate convict? I can certainly see GOP (ahem) Senators telling House members (as they did during the Clinton impeachment) that they didn’t care about the evidence. In fact, like the Obamacare bill they wouldn’t even bother to look at the evidence. It was all about the optics.

    Would the (ok, I’ve got to use the term) RINOs in the Senate dare impeach the historic first black President? Could any amount of evidence convince them to do so?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  136. Mr. 57 makes the good thinkings whereas many other people seem to be confarbled about what a RINO is and what it is they do

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  137. 139. I do get ‘lissa’s sensitivity to the ‘Republican In Name Only’ insult added to injury as its tossed around by baggers, indies, and malcontents.

    Really, who are we to demand that Republicans stand for something? We don’t contribute, rally or march, we just heckle.

    I’d prefer a more derogatory term myself.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  138. Well, let’s not start that again. But while I think it’s great that we’ve got whistleblowers, I can’t help but think back to Hilary! pounding the table and shouting “What does it matter at this point?”

    Which is a good question. What’s Congress going to do with the information their hearings reveal? What are they prepared to do.

    We know for a fact the video story was a lie. That unraveled before Obama’s Rose Garden presser. I don’t know how many press releases the Islamic groups organizing the Cairo protests could have gotten into Egyptian newspapers to get the point across, but not even the Cairo protest was over the video. They were flying banners with the picture of the subject of the protest; the blind Sheikh.

    I’m sure we’re going to uncover more lies. And no doubt some abuse of power. Then what? Who’s going to go all weak kneed over the “optics.” Because we all know the Dems and the MFM (redundant, I know) are going to circle the wagons and accuse the GOP of hyper-partisanship and racism.

    Unfortunately, I think too many of the usual suspects will join them.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  139. My conclusion after reading this thread? Daleyrocks’ self regard is very durable.

    lyle (d88787)

  140. Sammy, there continues to be no support for your fantasy that the false talking points originated in the CIA rather than the White House.

    SPQR (768505)

  141. For the record, I do not find the term RINO offensive. I simply conceded that Elissa’s frustration with that kind of argument was well explained and legitimate.

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  142. It’s annoying that this thread got so far from it’s zenith where Dana pointed out the President claimed to be totally unaware of any discussion that the Benghazi whistleblowers were being stiffled in any way.

    That is a lie. There’s no way around that. It’s a lie about something very important, from an administration that has stonewalled relentlessly.

    I doubt most RINOs would be that shameless, and they wouldn’t get away with it anyway, because the key to Obama’s shamelessness is the media’s joy at serving democrats. That was my initial musing that triggered this entire threadjack (oops!).

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  143. So, interesting that these FBI photos come out, right after the special forces whistleblower, admits we already know who the mastermind of Benghazi is,

    narciso (3fec35)

  144. My conclusion after reading this thread? daleyrocks,and select others— considering she’s exactly the same as a Democrat, Susan Collins’ senate voting record on healthcare is breathtaking, amazing, almost inexplicable. Mindboggling even. I just don’t know how one should interpret this.

    *Repeal of Health Care Reform*

    In February of 2011, the Senate voted on repealing the 2009-2010 health care reform legislation. The attempt failed on a party line vote. Susan Collins voted in favor of repealing the health care reform legislation.

    The 2009-2010 health care reform legislation passed through the Senate in three votes. The first was to end the filibuster, the second was to pass the Senate bill, and the third was to pass the reconciliation bill.

    *2009-2010 Health Care Reform – Reconciliation*

    Due to the death of Senator Kennedy and the election of Senator Brown in Massachussetts, the Democrats no longer possessed the 60 vote majority to break a filibuster. A reconciliation bill was passed to unify the Senate and House version and to enact the legislation. Susan Collins voted against passage of the reconciliation bill.

    *2009-2010 Health Care Reform – Passage*

    After the cloture vote to end the filibuster, a vote was taken to pass the legislation called “Obamacare” by its opponents. Susan Collins voted against final passage of the legislation.

    *2009-2010 Health Care Reform – Cloture Vote*

    The first vote in the health care reform process was for cloture on the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2009. This bill was different from the version that had recently passed through the House. Both votes went down party lines with all Democrats supporting the legislation and all Republicans opposing it. Susan Collins voted against the reform by voting against cloture.

    elissa (800016)

  145. “My conclusion after reading this thread? Daleyrocks’ self regard is very durable.”

    lyle – Thank you imdw.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  146. trotting out a couple of votes to “prove” Collins is not a RINO is absurd…

    even a broken clock is right twice a day, and blind pigs find the occasional acorn.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  147. elissa, jeez. I thought you wanted to let it go and get back to the topic.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  148. 146. Comment by Dustin (2da3a2) — 5/1/2013 @ 3:23 pm

    It’s annoying that this thread got so far from it’s zenith where Dana pointed out the President claimed to be totally unaware of any discussion that the Benghazi whistleblowers were being stiffled in any way.

    He basically said he didn’t understand the question. The question said he had been asked about this before (where?) which Obama did not deny. So it could be that strictly speaking they are not being blocked. Nobody is saying exactkly what they ahve been told. It might be simply that they are not being given a forum, which they need since it is classified. Or it could that they are being threatened with perjury, if they say X.

    That is a lie. There’s no way around that. It’s a lie about something very important, from an administration that has stonewalled relentlessly.

    I doubt most RINOs would be that shameless, and they wouldn’t get away with it anyway, because the key to Obama’s shamelessness is the media’s joy at serving democrats. That was my initial musing that triggered this entire threadjack (oops!).

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  149. Dustin: That is a lie. There’s no way around that. It’s a lie about something very important, from an administration that has stonewalled relentlessly.

    It may be a half truth.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  150. Aaw red and Steve– lighten up. Here. Maybe you’ll like these–

    ·I tried to catch some fog. I mist.

    ·When chemists die, they barium.

    ·Jokes about German sausage are the wurst.

    ·I know a guy who’s addicted to brake fluid. He says he can stop any time.

    ·How does Moses make his tea? Hebrews it.

    ·I stayed up all night to see where the sun went. Then it dawned on me.

    ·This girl said she recognized me from the vegetarian club, but I’d never met herbivore.

    ·I’m reading a book about anti-gravity. I can’t put it down.

    ·I did a theatrical performance about puns. It was a play on words .

    ·They told me I had type A blood, but it was a type-O.

    ·A dyslexic man walks into a bra .

    ·PMS jokes aren’t funny, period.

    ·Why were the Indians here first? They had reservations.

    ·Class trip to the Coca-Cola factory– I hope there’s no pop quiz.

    ·The Energizer bunny arrested and charged with battery.

    ·The old man didn’t like his beard at first. Then it grew on him.

    ·Did you hear about the cross eyed teacher who lost her job because she couldn’t control her pupils?

    ·When you get a bladder infection, urine trouble.

    ·What does a clock do when it’s hungry? It goes back four seconds.

    ·I wondered why the baseball was getting bigger. Then it hit me!

    ·Broken pencils are pointless.

    ·What do you call a dinosaur with a extensive vocabulary? A thesaurus.

    ·England has no kidney bank, but it does have a Liverpool .

    ·I used to be a banker, but then I lost interest.

    ·All the toilets in New York ‘s police stations have been stolen. Police have nothing to go on.

    ·I got a job at a bakery because I kneaded dough.

    ·Velcro – what a rip off!

    ·Cartoonist found dead in home. Details are sketchy.

    ·Venison for dinner? Oh deer!

    ·Earthquake in Washington obviously government’s fault.

    ·I used to think I was indecisive, but now I’m not so sure.

    elissa (800016)

  151. Sammy, I don’t think so. Obama was aware of the issue, which was raised with great publicity and related to his administration directly on a matter his administration is extremely sensitive about.

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  152. 124. Steve57 – Let’s cut to the chase. I am all for replacing moderate Republicans with more conservative ones, but that is not what you have been arguing above. It is weapons grade stupid to say we should turn over moderate Republican seats to Democrats because they essentially the same thing when Democrats don’t even believe that to be the case. Unless and until we can elect more conservative members of congress, we need to take whatever seats we can get. Elissa was stating reality and I agree with her. You and others are free to live in whatever fantasy world you choose.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/1/2013 @ 11:27 am

    daley, reality is that right before he defected to the Democrats in 2001 Jim Jeffords had an American Conservative Union rating of 36 and an Americans for Democratic action rating of 55. Nearly a 20 point gap in favor of the left.

    Collins recently earned a 48 from the ACU and a 75 from the ADA. Nearly a 30 point gap in favor of the left.

    Reality is that if you’re pretending that someone who favors the left by that wide a margin is really a Republican, you’re living in an alternate universe.

    Collins favors the left far more than Jeffords did, and he switched sides to prevent the GOP from taking control of the Senate.

    You don’t see that as a problem?

    This is not a matter of “arrogance.” It’s a matter of facing facts. You can’t count on Collins, no matter how she votes on the issue du jour you wish to cherrypick.

    The practical fact of the matter is the GOP needs to invest in solid GOP candidates elsewhere and recognize people like Collins for what they are; RINOs. They will turn on the party, they will turn on their voters, and like Jeffords they will sell out after cynically using the party apparatus and funds for their own purposes.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  153. elissa, I never take things too seriously.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1d2v7i/parents_of_reddit_what_is_the_creepiest_thing/

    My 3 year old daughter stood next to her new born brother and looked at him for awhile then turned and looked at me and said, “Daddy its a monster..we should bury it.”

    …Not to me, but to his grandmother.

    He was cuddling with her and being very sweet (he was about 3 at the time). He takes her face in his hands, and brings his face close to hers, then tells her that she’s very old, and will die soon.

    Then he makes a point of looking at the clock.

    …My son (about 6) asked my mother to lay down on her stomach, then he sat on her butt and started bouncing up and down and proclaimed, “Now we’re mating like reptiles!” Thanks Discovery Channel!

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  154. 152. That was my initial musing that triggered this entire threadjack (oops!).

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/1/2013 @ 4:23 pm

    Don’t worry, Sammy. If it wasn’t that, it would have shortly been something else.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  155. “daley, reality is that right before he defected to the Democrats in 2001 Jim Jeffords had an American Conservative Union rating of 36 and an Americans for Democratic action rating of 55. Nearly a 20 point gap in favor of the left.”

    Steve57 – So frigging what? Just more goal post moving on your part. Remember a RINO is a RINO is a RINO? Now you’re on party switch watch when you’ve already claimed it didn’t make a damned difference?

    Intellectual honesty and consistency are not your strong points nor is having the courage to own your words. In fact it is a pattern with you on this blog. Have fun with your argument clinic.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  156. “The practical fact of the matter is the GOP needs to invest in solid GOP candidates elsewhere and recognize people like Collins for what they are; RINOs. They will turn on the party, they will turn on their voters, and like Jeffords they will sell out after cynically using the party apparatus and funds for their own purposes.”

    – Steve57

    I agree. If voters can’t expect candidates for political office to actually do what they say, or punish them for saying one thing and doing another, then our republic is no longer a republic.

    daley is mad for backing a phony in the last election. I’ve been there (2008). No more.

    Leviticus (17b7a5)

  157. Elissa- Did you hear about the dyslexic agnostic with insomnia? He stayed up at night wondering if there was a dog.

    Painted Jaguar (a sockpuppet) (3d3f72)

  158. “Intellectual honesty and consistency are not your strong points nor is having the courage to own your words.”

    – daleyrocks

    And that’s not fair either. I vehemently disagree with Steve57 on most things, and he pisses me off on a regular basis, but it seems to me that he’s been very consistent and intellectually honest for as long as he’s been here. If there’s inconsistency I doubt it’s deliberate.

    Leviticus (17b7a5)

  159. Question, have they cross referenced this pics with Facebook posts, what’s going on here’

    narciso (3fec35)

  160. 162. “Intellectual honesty and consistency are not your strong points nor is having the courage to own your words.”

    – daleyrocks

    And that’s not fair either. I vehemently disagree with Steve57 on most things, and he pisses me off on a regular basis, but it seems to me that he’s been very consistent and intellectually honest for as long as he’s been here. If there’s inconsistency I doubt it’s deliberate.

    Comment by Leviticus (17b7a5) — 5/1/2013 @ 5:42 pm

    Thank you, Leviticus. That means a lot.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  161. “…but pledged to look into the matter.”

    Already expired, I’ll bet.

    Blacque Jacques Shellacque (bed55d)

  162. MD, I met him in AA (he couldn’t mess that up). He was tired of walking into bras looking for a drink. He still could not seem to grasp the concept of Her Wiper Hog, though.

    nk (875f57)

  163. }}} but pledged to look into the matter.

    Kerry, you idiot, why didn’t you silence this whistleblowing bastards sooner?

    SmockPuppet, 10th Dan Snark Master and Etyological Conundrum Proposer (98ae1f)

  164. Obama lied, Sammy. Issa sent letters in the last 2 weeks. There were very public statements the day before from Toensing. His administration has hidden the survivors, and he feigned ignorance. And the MFM just nodded.

    JD (b63a52)

  165. I vehemently disagree with Steve57 on most things

    People of the left becoming indignant over basic statements and observations made by people on the right always puzzles me. As far as I’m concerned, that’s like expressing resentment over the comment of “2 plus 2 equals four,” or “the sun is hot, ice is cold.” One might just as well scoff and retort: “No, 2 plus 2 actually equals 3.82!”

    It must be genetics, or a case of nature far more than nurture.

    Mark (28b929)

  166. If only there were some way you could weed us out of the gene pool.

    Don’t worry, you’ll probably get your chance within my lifetime. Make sure you don’t squander it.

    Leviticus (17b7a5)

  167. There are Galts, and then there are Galtons. Which one is Mark? You decide!

    Leviticus (17b7a5)

  168. Hmmm. Getting into the middle of a blog spat between Leviticus and Mark just somehow feels like it might be a dangerous and losing proposition all around..

    elissa (800016)

  169. Jay Carnie informed us that Benghazi happened a long time ago and he won’t be talking about really old things. Like Benghazi. And the Constitution.

    JD (b63a52)

  170. “Hmmm. Getting into the middle of a blog spat between Leviticus and Mark just somehow feels like it might be a dangerous and losing proposition all around..”

    – elissa

    I’m sorry. I shouldn’t take the bait.

    Leviticus (17b7a5)

  171. Jay Carnie is a mewling bootlicker.

    Leviticus (17b7a5)

  172. Up until now, it had been too soon to talk about Benghazi. Without any warning, it is now past its sell-by date. Almost instantaneously, it went from too new, to too old.

    JD (b63a52)

  173. Does Carnie make up all on his own what idiocy he will say to the press or does somebody tell him what to say?

    elissa (800016)

  174. He says nothing to the press, and they ask for nothing from him. It’s a shameful symbiosis.

    In a real country, he would fear every media session.

    Leviticus (17b7a5)

  175. Comment by JD (b63a52) — 5/1/2013 @ 7:49 pm

    I was going to say what you already said in #176 about #173. One day the investigation was ongoing and it was too early to know all of the answers, now all of a sudden it’s old news and doesn’t warrant answers.

    It’s like I always thought it was funny that one night I went to bed and I was not a doctor, the next night when I went to bed I was one. If it was that easy, why did I spend so many years in school?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  176. The President is playing rope-a-dope. He may use Alinsky, but he understands Ali.

    He knows he can use immigration reform to win the House, so he’s feinting to make the GOP take the bait.

    Sen. Rubio is a good man, but he needs to realize that Sen. Schumer is not his friend.

    Ag80 (19f299)

  177. Roobs is also a smarmy self-promoting cheeseball

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  178. that’s one of those point counterpoint things

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  179. If only there were some way you could weed us out of the gene pool.

    I truly wasn’t being sarcastic or flip—I’m really puzzled by the inner workings of the mind of left-leaning people, particularly those who, unlike you, are well past middle-age. Since I believe you’re in your 20s, you at least have an excuse. But I’m acquainted with a liberal who is in his 60s, and the fact he still is of the left after decades of witnessing life (and reality) — and still doesn’t have enough self-awareness to notice how two-faced he often is — must illustrate an innate facet of such folks’ brain.

    In general terms, life-long liberals (hello, Michael Bloomberg! How ya doing, Barack!) seem to be intrinsically immature about the ins and outs of human nature, of both their own and that of others.

    Mark (28b929)

  180. “And that’s not fair either. I vehemently disagree with Steve57 on most things, and he pisses me off on a regular basis, but it seems to me that he’s been very consistent and intellectually honest for as long as he’s been here. If there’s inconsistency I doubt it’s deliberate.”

    Leviticus – You have not looked at this thread hard enough because there is intellectual dishonesty smacking you in the face from his arguments, fail to remember how he jumped on your case when he first appeared on this blog, or recall him playing the victim card when he is called on his BS.

    “daley is mad for backing a phony in the last election. I’ve been there (2008). No more.”

    No, I dislike dishonest and stupid arguments such as those Steve57 presented on this thread. It has nothing to do with the past election. Just focus on the number of times he reversed course.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  181. Honestly, those have to be pictures from the drone cam they said they didn’t have.

    narciso (3fec35)

  182. Always follow links from narciso…

    Sometimes I don’t know if I should be amazed at how humanity came this far while being so stupid, or should be glad that people who are dishonest and evil are often so stupid…

    I guess maybe it is just an illustration of the old saying about the webs that are woven when deceit is the goal. On one hand the WH says Benghazi is old news, fahgetaboutit, and on the other hand someone says, “Hey, releasing those pictures in the Boston bombing made people think we were working hard and it led to something, let’s throw out some more pictures and show people we are serious about the investigation…
    oops, where are those pictures from?

    Of course, when so many people are either choosing to not pay attention to cover or worn out from trying to pay attention and have given up, it seems easy to get away with stupid (stupid defined as trying an obvious con) at least for awhile.

    Jesus said that Sodom and Gomorrah would condemn the generation of His appearing, as perhaps they would have repented had they seen the same miracles.
    How many hundreds of thousands of dead soldiers would stand and condemn the leaders of this government and culture for letting the nation become what it has become?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  183. “fail to remember how he jumped on your case when he first appeared on this blog”

    – daleyrocks

    “Jumping on my case” doesn’t equate to intellectual inconsistency or dishonesty, and if he’s made a habit of playing the victim card I don’t recall it.

    It’s possible that I’m misremembering things, obviously, but for the time being I disagree with your assessment.

    Leviticus (1aca67)

  184. I’ve grown even more cynical, if it was possible in the last two weeks, the Bureau certainly knew who one of the bros, where,

    narciso (3fec35)

  185. I heard a comment (don’t remember who or where) that said the current admin policy is that being a jihadist in belief means nothing and is not a reason to monitor someone until a violent action is taken. (Such as Hasan, and then they still deny the obvious).
    But “they” are always on the lookout for someone who is a right-wing tea party type who needs to be monitored as a domestic terror risk.

    I think we are seeing what government looks like when people who are associates of 60’s anarchists are in charge. “Tear it all down, because it is all so bad, and whatever comes out of it, we will be in charge, so it will be good.” I think that is why much of Obama policy seems at odds with the stated intent. The real intention is “To Serve Man”, to “fundamentally change” the nation.
    That statement, that he plans to fundamentally change the nation, is probably one of the few things he has said that he truly means.

    Sounds like a plot for a bad novel, but truth is stranger than fiction.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  186. A touch of McCarry’s better angels, with some of Drury’s later dystopian takes,

    narciso (3fec35)

  187. daley, where does my intellectual dishonesty show up? And just what does constitute the “victim card” in your mind?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  188. A touch of McCarry’s better angels, with some of Drury’s later dystopian takes,
    Comment by narciso (3fec35) — 5/2/2013 @ 5:55 am

    Once again my education of math and science with a little humanities thrown in leaves me utterly devoid of appreciation of your reference.

    Painted Jaguar
    : What MD meant to say was, “Huh?”

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  189. 192. Join zee club. Yahoo is our alternative friend.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  190. 187. Your memory is fine. The case in support of innuendo and aspersions will never follow, its a thing.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  191. I may have read “Come Niveneh, Come Tyre”, in my misspent youth. May. I hate to think that I have.

    nk (875f57)

  192. Painted Jaguar: Mr. Gulrud, MD did try to ascertain the significance of “Drury” with Google, but the long list of “Drury’s” to pick from left him a bit confuzzled (yes, I know that is often easy to do, but our friends are just the way they are, not the way we wish they were). Though he tells me he once stayed in a “Drury Hotel” that was a very nice and budget-friendly accommodation.

    Painted Jaguar (a sockpuppet) (3d3f72)

  193. You may know Drury better from “Advise and Consent”, Painted Jaguar.

    nk (875f57)

  194. Painted Jaguar: But then again, Mr. nk, I may not (know him any better).

    Painted Jaguar (a sockpuppet) (3d3f72)

  195. I saw the movie, a very good movie, with Henry Fonda and Charles Laughton as a southern pol made me want to buy a seersucker suit.

    nk (875f57)

  196. This one, Painted Jaguar. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055728/ It’s worth seeing, if only to make you appreciate the jungle more.

    nk (875f57)

  197. 197. Thanks for the hint.

    I’d be better read if I weren’t afflicted with sloth.

    Narciso must multitask.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  198. I love Advise and Consent (the film). Haven’t read the book, but I should.

    Leviticus (17b7a5)

  199. “It’s possible that I’m misremembering things, obviously, but for the time being I disagree with your assessment.”

    Leviticus – You are misremembering ans as you know I have no problem disagreeing with you.

    Claiming people are advancing arguments which they have not and then demanding they prove them is intellectual dishonesty. Steve57 somehow created the idea in his mind that Elissa and/or I were saying Snowe and/or Collins were the best Maine could do ideologically from a conservative perspective. Elissa’s #65 says nothing of the kind. She states what are arguably objectively facts. Collins keeps getting reelecting. Steve57 in #71 for some reason calls the fact that she actually continues to get reelected flawed thinking (are news reports wrong?) because Paul LePage’s election as governor proves somebody more conservative can get elected in Maine. That’s fine, but it doesn’t contradict anything Elissa said and in #77 I echo Steve57 new flawed thinking argument and ask him whether it applies to Paul LePage. So in #88 Steve57 creates the following meme:

    “That’s the best we can do in Maine” does not refute the assertion that Collins is a RINO.

    which nobody but himself has actually raised and in #96 asks me to defend the meme he created:

    Again, what does “this is the best we can do in Maine” have to do with anything?

    I call that intellectual dishonesty.

    In #96 Stev57 claims “You still haven’t explained what good it does to have her on the team that’s theoretically Republican.” The very simple answer that Steve57 repeatedly fails to grasp is that even if he fails to see the value of having Snowe/Collins on Team R, the other side clearly does because they ran people against them. Steve57 reinforces his confusion and intellectual inconsistency by professing to be concerned about the possibility of Collins switching parties. If there is no value to having on Team R that he can see, why would he be concerned about her switching parties? It makes no sense.

    Finally there is the failure of Steve57 to own up to his own role in the thread, such as in #116:

    That’s because it’s an observation of the obvious, daley, not an argument. I’ve never shifted the goalposts; they’ve always been firmly planted in the RINO end of the field.

    You’ve been the one trying to go off on tangents, such as exploring whether or not a more conservative Republican could have gotten elected in Maine ?!?!

    That has nothing at all to do with the definition of a RINO. Which is of course a GOP politician who has the voting record that a Democrat would be proud of. Which is an objective measure, not a subjective one.

    Sorry for the diversions to which I contributed.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  200. daley, that last post has to rank among the most dishonest strawmen I’ve ever seen in any comment thread on this blog.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  201. May I just say once again in conclusion that RINO is a terrible and overused term. It is utterly meaningless and hollow with respect to actually defining any specific right-leaning person’s beliefs broadly over the wide range of issues or for measuring a politician’s overall body of work. Yet at the same time that term used as a pejorative is highly divisive and corrosive to the larger cause precisely because it is so thoroughly subjective–subjective and personalized both to the sender and the receiver depending on geography and their own political and social beliefs as Republicans/ Conservatives/libertarians.

    It’s not my intention to offend anyone who comments here, but my observation (and it may not be correct) is that those who have had some legal training, or advanced courses in logic, and especially those who’ve said in the past that they’ve had debate skills training and done debate, understand all this and tend to avoid using the term RINO in their blog contributions–preferring instead to focus on a specific policy or immediate area of disagreement with candidates or office holders. And that makes for better and much more informed and civil discussions, IMO.

    Thank you for considering this.

    elissa (ae237f)

  202. Getting back to the theme of the thread, one of the sources, in the last CNN piece, says the trail of the Yemeni AQ had gone cold,

    narciso (3fec35)

  203. RINO is a terrible and overused term

    indeed it is and personally I think RINO is a lazy designation as well and that each individual RINO is deserving of their own unique derogatory appellation or appellations

    happyfeet (c60db2)

  204. 205. I’m for dismantling the Federal Government. “Getting something done” shall mean repealing or gutting passed bills and cutting funding, laying off workers first and only then repairing any resulting damage.

    Worms and squishes, the lot of them.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  205. Very good point Mr. Feets. You call Mr. McCain a nasty piggy piggy RINO even though, as I recall, you appear to agree with him on immigration and such–and some people call you a RINO because of your stance on some social issues which they don’t happen to agree with even though you are a mighty fighter against fascisms. Both are being called RINOS, yet on the surface you and Sen. McCain are nothing alike. See, Feets, that fevered RINOing it gets very confusing. We just all need to stop it in the interest of clarity, I think.

    elissa (ae237f)

  206. 205. May I just say once again in conclusion that RINO is a terrible and overused term. It is utterly meaningless and hollow with respect to actually defining any specific right-leaning person’s beliefs broadly over the wide range of issues or for measuring a politician’s overall body of work…

    Comment by elissa (ae237f) — 5/2/2013 @ 4:46 pm

    I agree it’s an overused term, elissa. I disagree that someone like Collins whose rankings demonstrate that the left-leaning ADA thinks she’s a more reliable ally the right-leaning ACU is in fact right leaning. There is no evidence she’s right leaning. The evidence points to the opposite. So I reserve the term for people like her who get into Jim Jeffords territory.

    I suppose it would be more polite to call her a nominal Republican who sides with the left more often than not, but why go to the trouble. RINO covers it.

    Again it’s not subjective. A political party isn’t a religion, and a party platform isn’t a set of commandments. Still I expect an office holder who claims an affiliation to a political party to actually support the party’s agenda. If that office holder doesn’t support the party’s agenda the majority of the time, how can you call them anything except a member of that party in name only?

    And I don’t see how anyone can call that a subjective measure. A Senator’s voting record speaks for itself.

    I realize you think it’s arrogant of me to apply the term RINO to Collins, but I consider it a matter of practicality. As a voter, why should I expend effort or money on her election or reelection? If I were a resident of Maine and I was interested in the GOP taking control of the Senate (and the latter half of the equation is true) I’d have to take an objective look at her record and conclude any campaign contribution I would make wouldn’t be to her. It would have to be to someone in some other state who has a shot of winning. Control of the Senate means 51 Republicans, not counting Collins. Because you can’t count on her. I can easily see her Jeffords-like handing control back to the Dems if they were to offer her the right deal.

    If the term RINO is applied to someone who is right leaning then I agree it’s a baseless insult. If someone votes with conservatives 75% of the time, and liberals 48% of the time I could live with it.

    But in Collins’ case those numbers are reversed. I really am curious why you don’t have a problem with that, elissa.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  207. I should restate my last sentence and as a question.

    In what way do you think someone who votes with the left 75% of the time is a Republican, elissa?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  208. It’s like the Simon and Garfunkel song, they are many ways for them to betray us, Martinez became thoroughly useless long before he decided not to run again, on Gitmo, Iraq, et al,

    narciso (3fec35)

  209. I absolutely think it achieves nothing and that it is arrogant and lazy and counterproductive to call anyone who is right-leaning/Republican a RINO. And I thought that, and I said that with considerable detail, long before you, Steve57 ever entered Collins’ name specifically into the thread. She was, and is moot to my position and is moot to my central argument on this thread which clearly you choose to ignore. The whole faddish faux designation of “RINO” is indeed highly subjective whether you can see it or not– as subjective as your own personal assessments and pronouncements of who may be legitimately considered “right leaning” or who you think is allowed to disagree with you.

    elissa (ae237f)

  210. My swedish lessons are taking over. Every time someone says RINO I think NOOSE HERNING
    and the djurpark in ystad.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  211. elissa, can you just answer the question.

    In what way do YOU consider someone who votes with the left 75% of the time to be part of the Republican party?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  212. I absolutely think it achieves nothing and that it is arrogant and lazy and counterproductive to call anyone who is right-leaning/Republican a RINO.

    I agreed with the part about it being non-productive to call someone who is right-leaning a RINO. I am curious to know how you determine if someone is in fact right-leaning. Is it because they call themselves Republican or does it involve something more?

    Or do we just take the word of someone who’s pro-abortion, pro-gun control and for bigger and more intrusive government who just so happens to have been elected with an “R” after their name that they’re right leaning because of shut-up?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  213. 213. The whole faddish faux designation of “RINO” is indeed highly subjective whether you can see it or not– as subjective as your own personal assessments and pronouncements of who may be legitimately considered “right leaning” or who you think is allowed to disagree with you.

    Comment by elissa (ae237f) — 5/2/2013 @ 6:46 pm

    This is the part I can’t wrap my mind around. So the Republican party should be the party of “anything goes” and no one can judge?

    You’re apparently from the Chicago area, elissa. If Mustapha Farrakhan…

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/22/louis-farrakhan-son-polic_n_3133237.html

    …took a break from his no-show job in the Harvey ILL PD where he does nothing except flash his gun and block traffic with his state-provided squad car on behalf of his father to run as a Republican in a district where he’d win on name recognition alone, are you saying no one can question his righ-wing credentials?

    The guy could be for sharia law, property redistribution, gun confiscation, and reparations for all I know.

    You’re making the tent too big.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  214. 215. Regardless of who they are or where they’re from—If they ran as a Republican and beat a Democrat or Communist in the election, if they represent their state or district with an R after their name, if they caucus with the Republicans, if they serve on or chair committees as a Republican, if their presence in Congress adds to the number that allows a Democrat chamber to be filibustered if need be —-or their presence contributes toward having a Republican Speaker or leader—then they are a Republican. This is not rocket science.

    We may not like some/many of their votes– they may break our hearts sometimes. We may hope they’ll retire or be kidnapped by martian aliens and then be replaced by someone more Conservative. But like it or not, they are Republicans.

    elissa (ae237f)

  215. Steve, you think you’re kidding. Old Mayor Daley, Boss Richard J., was first elected to the Illinois legislature as a Republican (I don’t remember why he didn’t make it on the ballot as a Democrat). The Republicans made him go sit across the aisle with the other Democrats.

    But that’s not the point. Who says I have to be a bitter bible-clinging, gun-cleaning hater with a Confederate flag bumper sticker on my pickup truck to be a Republican? Why can’t I be a welfare-cheating, drug-dealing, Prius-driving suck-ass bleeding heart liberal, and also be a Republican? This is a serious question, despite the way it’s put? I know there is a party platform at the nominating convention, but is there a party line?

    nk (875f57)

  216. Team R and Team D suck.

    JD (b63a52)

  217. RINO is a terrible and overused term

    Although that label doesn’t bother me, I tend not to use it because it’s too vague in my book. But I admit that the word that comes to mind when thinking of people with plenty of closeted liberal tendencies, meaning “squish” or “squishy,” is vague in its own right.

    Since “ultra-liberal,” “liberal,” “centrist” or “conservative” (and, less so, “ultra-conservative”—in light of the mid-point of the socio-political spectrum tilting so far to the left in the 21st century) say a lot more to me than the party labels of “Democrat” or “Republican,” or, the acronym based on party affiliation, “RINO.” BTW, I guess the counterpart to the latter when referring to non-leftist Democrats would be “blue-dog.”

    Mark (695b11)

  218. Gen. Russel Honore says people should stop getting stuck on stupid.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  219. Got it, elissa. You think the party in opposition to the Democrats should include people who collaborate with Democrats.

    I think you should look to the city of Chicago or perhaps the state of Kali to see how that turns out.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  220. 219. Steve, you think you’re kidding. Old Mayor Daley, Boss Richard J., was first elected to the Illinois legislature as a Republican (I don’t remember why he didn’t make it on the ballot as a Democrat). The Republicans made him go sit across the aisle with the other Democrats.

    Comment by nk (875f57) — 5/2/2013 @ 7:46 pm

    No, I was born in Kali. I didn’t think I was kidding.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  221. and some people call you a RINO because of your stance on some social issues

    that’s cause they’re big stupidheads

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  222. You better be careful about calling Steve a big stupidhead. I don’t think he’ll like it.

    elissa (ae237f)

  223. he never takes things too seriously is my understanding

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  224. that’s cause they’re big stupidheads

    Oh, come on. Admit it, happyfeet. You do have more than your fair share of left-leaning sentiments in that brain of yours. I’ve detected those particular biases in comments you’ve made previously, particularly ones that, on one hand, reveal your touchy-feeling reactions about GLBT, but, on the other hand, also illustrate your c’est-la-vie attitude (closeted or otherwise) about late-term fetuses being pulled out and chomped at the neck.

    One or the other doesn’t necessarily reflect an ideological predisposition in general, but the two together — again, call it sort of a combo pack — is a Rorschach test of corroded liberalism.

    Mark (695b11)

  225. This just in:

    Boko Haram Militia Surprised But Pleased GOP Adopts Jihad As Basic Human Right

    (AP) LAGOS – Boko Haram leaders were surprised but pleased to learn that the conservative party in the US has embraced Jihad as a basic human right. In the wake of comments by Rep. Todd Aiken regarding “legitimate rape” some Muslim political activists were concerned that Ummar Abu Al Hamsa might have trouble winning even Michigan’s 15th Congressional district which includes heavily Muslim Dearborn following his favorable remarks toward wife beating and killing all gays. But GOP party spokesmen and women defended the candidate, stating “Regardless of who they are or where they’re from—If they ran as a Republican and beat a Democrat or Communist in the election, if they represent their state or district with an R after their name, if they caucus with the Republicans, if they serve on or chair committees as a Republican, if their presence in Congress adds to the number that allows a Democrat chamber to be filibustered if need be —-or their presence contributes toward having a Republican Speaker or leader—then they are a Republican.”

    Mr. Abu Al Hamsa confirmed to the AP that he is not a communist. Adding that, like gays, he would love nothing more to hang them from a crane or topple a wall onto them.

    When asked if Mr. Abu Al Hamsa was speaking on behalf to the Republican party, state GOP chairman Elrod Issa said, “None of us has the right to do is to dictate whom else among us can officially be called a Republican or a Conservative, or to decide who may be allowed to call themselves a Republican or Conservative.”

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  226. See this is what ‘top men’ think;

    Ed McMullen, a Columbia-based public affairs executive and member of the Finance Advisory Committee for Gov. Nikki Haley’s likely 2014 re-election campaign, has met Cruz previously in Washington and plans to attend Friday’s event. But he believes the 2010 campaign marked the apex of the Tea Party in South Carolina and that Cruz would be wise to expand his message to an increasingly diverse primary electorate in the Palmetto State.

    Read more: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/05/02/eyeing_16_ted_cruz_aims_to_seize_demint_mantle_118208.html#ixzz2SC8RFTkj
    Follow us: @RCP_Articles on Twitter

    narciso (3fec35)

  227. 226. You better be careful about calling Steve a big stupidhead. I don’t think he’ll like it.

    Comment by elissa (ae237f) — 5/2/2013 @ 8:24 pm

    I don’t like when people try to stomp on my head. All the rest is just gravy.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  228. 227. he never takes things too seriously is my understanding

    Comment by happyfeet (8ce051) — 5/2/2013 @ 8:28 pm

    Except sleep. You **** with my sleep and I’m throwing a flight deck boot at you.

    And maybe number two. Can you quit, already, shoving paperwork under the door of my stall so I can initial it?

    Other than that, no, I don’t take much seriously.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  229. rockabye Mr. 57 in the treetop

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  230. Mr. Mark at some point Team R will have to git back to the basics

    I’m just ahead of my time is all

    not unlike Einstein really

    or Martha Plimpton

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  231. I’m just ahead of my time is all

    Hp, that’s just another way of saying you’re more liberal than you care to admit.

    I’d have bought the line (or rationalizations) you’re touting several decades ago — or the idea that being non-rightwing in the context of, for example, the 1950s didn’t necessarily mean a person was more of the left than he realized or let on — but not today.

    Mark (695b11)

  232. This just in:

    (AP) Detroit – Running as the jobs candidate, GOP hopeful Ummar Abu Al Hamsa revealed that Milwaukee Electric Tool has agreed to open a Sharia-compliant Sawz-all production facility in Michigan’s 15th congressional district.

    “With the explosive growth of the Muslim community in the Dearborn area,” said Mr. Abu Al Hamsa with no note of irony after using the word explosive, “and the Arab Spring bearing fruit across North Africa and the Middle East, never has the need for a Sharia-complaint Sawz-All been greater.”

    When asked why he, a used car salesman from the Dearborn area holding as of yet no political office, should be negotiating with Milwaukee Electric Tool, Mr. Abu Al Hamsa chuckled and noted his experience in arranged marriages.

    “It’s a natural fit,” he said. “The Dearborn area is packed with unemployed yet experienced production line workers and tool and die makers. The Muslim world is packed with people who need to slaughter a goat or behead an infidel. It’s win-win.”

    When queried if this was the position of the state Republican party, spokesman Elrod Issa said, “if he calls himself a Republican and he runs as a Republican and the people of 15th District of Michigan consider him to be a Michigan Republican and elect him as their Representative, it is nothing short of arrogance for someone/anyone else to define him as a Republican in name only.”

    When queried regarding his remarks on beheadings, Mr. Abu Al Hamsa did not deny the brutal nature of the videos posted on YouTube. But he attributed this to past GOP intransigence and the sequester.

    “In the past,” he said, “the Republican party provided no public funding for beheadings and put too many restrictions on private beheadings. Forcing many Salafist groups to resort to back-alley beheadings. The future can not belong to people who would turn back the clock to the 1950s in the way of beheadings. Or insulting the prophet. Yeah. Both of those.”

    The AP contacted Milwaukee Electric Tool, headquartered in Brookfield Wisconsin. Executives confirmed that they would be opening a production line near Dearborn. But they would not be producing the power tool itself at the new site. Only their new line of flesh and bone blades. Company officials admitted that their wood or metal blades “don’t cut worth ****” once they get “all gooped up with meat.”

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  233. i am precisely as liberal as i care to admit thank you very much

    which is to say not very liberal at all

    gay people are statistical outliers like male breast cancer and if they want to get married I say WITH CONFIDENCE no skin off my nuts and fetuses – fetuses are mostly a silly exercise in that mormon idea where people are like hey check it out i think i just saw it wiggle you think we should baptize it? hell yeah we should baptize it in fact it’s imperative cause of [arcane cathymormyfundy mumbo jumbo]

    get a life you losers

    or at least explore the concept of minding your own damn business

    barring that… take a moment and think about what piss-ant political parties like the republican one can realistic accomplish in this fallen world

    think hard

    ok think harder

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  234. *realistically* accomplish I mean

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  235. which is to say not very liberal at all

    Actually, you lean further left than you realize. Some of your economic impulses may be sensible (and to the right), but your social impulses strike me as quite liberal. Another clue is you seem to be emotionally wedded (pardon the pun) over the idea of two guys getting hitched (ie, a very leftwing response), but you’ve previously expressed disdain for a guy having more than one wife (ie, polygamy will be treated with less disdain by a more traditional or right-leaning, and anti-NOW, type of sentiment). This is another instance where a “combo pack” — or being pro-SSM, anti-polygamy — is sort of a Rorschach test.

    I can envision most folks on the right being opposed to both SSM and polygamy, but also a somewhat smaller percentage of them being anti-SSM yet rather nonchalant about multi-partner marriages (or what’s okay in traditional Islamic-type societies). Far more liberals, by contrast, will react in just the opposite manner.

    Mark (695b11)

  236. if I want to be left alone, if I want the obscenely obtrusive US government to leave me the eff alone

    then I have to trust in the american people that if indeedy deedle lee doo the obscenely obtrusive US government does actually and in fact leave me (and them) the eff alone…

    that everything’s gonna be ok

    and you know what I actually believe that

    call it faith if you will

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  237. if I want to be left alone, if I want the obscenely obtrusive US government to leave me the eff alone

    Hp, what you want the US government to do or not do doesn’t necessarily reflect on the innate biases I’ve been trying to describe. I’m focusing on why, as one example, you’ve previously expressed resentment about a guy having more than one wife.

    A somewhat good awareness of human nature seems to fly over the heads of many liberals, or is more likely to be resented or refuted by the left. That would include their not realizing that a desire for multi-partner relationships (with the opposite sex) conforms to male nature far more than a desire of males wanting sexual intimacy with other males. That’s why more people on the right won’t perceive polygamy as being as much of an outlier (or as aberrant) as homosexuality is, while more folks on the left will react in the opposite manner.

    Mark (695b11)

  238. Painted Jaguar (Twitching tail with eyes half closed): I guess we all have things that are particularly bothersome to us (like that a-animal that shall not be named), but it does seem to me that you folks have more important things to think about than Rino’s (of which most live in Africa anyway).
    MD says that just about everybody thinks you get into trouble by trying to define the Republican party too narrowly, but then just about everybody also has a time when they say, “That’s just too much”. People just have different places where they draw those lines.
    It’s nice to have people be an R for a majority and committee chairmanships, but yes, having “friends” that you can’t count on to support a position in a vote is a problem.

    Here’s another problem, from the PowerLine people (just thinking of Minnesocold and snow in May makes me shiver) about what is tucked into the pages of the amnesty bill, lots of funding for “assimilation assistance” that will go to various nonprofits, including: “the Illinois program, which would almost surely get federal funding under the Schumer-Rubio measure, works closely with The Council of Islamic Organizations of Greater Chicago which, in turn, works closely with the Islamist (and Muslim Brotherhood aligned) Islamic Council of North America. It also works closely with the radical Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund. Expect that outfit to be a huge player in immigrant integration if the Gang of Eight legislation becomes law.
    The Maryland organization that receives state funding to help “integrate” immigrants, CASA de Maryland, is familiar to me. President Obama’s lefty nominee for Secretary of Labor, Tom Perez, is an alum.
    CASA de Maryland is run by Gustavo Torres. He’s a former Sandinista and a current confidant of the the state’s liberal Democratic governor Martin O’Malley.
    CASA’s core function is to oppose state, federal, and local enforcement immigration laws. Rep. Dana Rohrbacher has accused it of teaching illegal immigrants how to evade the law. To help it perform this and other radical work, Hugo Chavez provided CASA with $1.5 million in funding, after Torres spoke in Venezuela at a conference on revolution in Latin America. CASA also supports the “Cuban Five,” a quintet of convicted Castro spies.”

    I don’t know if the Dems have moles in Rubio’s team of advisers to trick him into supporting things like this to destroy his career before he really gets started, or whether he is easily hoodwinked by the Dems, or what, but his reputation has taken a big hit.

    Painted Jaguar (a sockpuppet) (3d3f72)

  239. Well Rubio’s chief of staff, used to work for Cheney, then he worked for one of Soros’s projects,

    narciso (3fec35)

  240. 242. Here’s another problem, from the PowerLine people (just thinking of Minnesocold and snow in May makes me shiver) about what is tucked into the pages of the amnesty bill, lots of funding for “assimilation assistance” that will go to various nonprofits, including: “the Illinois program, which would almost surely get federal funding under the Schumer-Rubio measure, works closely with The Council of Islamic Organizations of Greater Chicago which, in turn, works closely with the Islamist (and Muslim Brotherhood aligned) Islamic Council of North America. It also works closely with the radical Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund. Expect that outfit to be a huge player in immigrant integration if the Gang of Eight legislation becomes law.”

    I sort of get a chuckle out of the boneheads wringing their hands wondering how the Tsarnaev brothers could have “repaid” this country’s generosity by bombing the Boston Marathon.

    Hello! They were both college-aged and living in Cambridge, MA. Where hating America is the default position. If you don’t hate America because it’s racist, sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic, militarist, capitalist, imperialist, etc., the faculty of every school in the area from Harvard on down figures it hasn’t done its job.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  241. assimilation assistance is to boston what background checks are to newtown

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  242. Tax dollar funded terrorism is normal everyday life.
    Profile.

    mg (31009b)

  243. 245. Comment by happyfeet (8ce051) — 5/3/2013 @ 7:31 am

    assimilation assistance is to boston what background checks are to newtown

    Irrelevant.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  244. The Moslem religion has become corrupted by promoters of terrorism.

    There is a big problem in dealing with it because of the very strong American principle of freedom of religion. But you have to recognize that there are some bad religions, or bad religious teaching, and some people in established positions are doing it, or putting people on a road toward getting it.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  245. Preachers of this sort have to put out of business, and that’s very hard in the United States, maybe harder even just to face up to it, because of the great sanctity attached in the United States to freedom of religion.

    The problem is that there are some religions which deserve to be persecuted.

    A religion that teaches is justifiable or even admirable to murder people is one of them.

    This “religion” is not all Islam, even though Islam has its own problems, the worst of which is the idea that a family can accept monetary compensation (or soemthing else) and forgive a murderer.

    This leads to honor killings when the person whoi can do the forgiving is the same person who did the killing.

    But honor killings are not terrorism. It’s a difference problem. This compensation (completely contrary to the Judeo-Christian principle seen in Numbers 35:31) is actually tolerated and taken advantage of by the United States military, which often gives monetary compensation (although they are careful to say they are not accepting blame for any wrongful conduct) to people killed by the U.S. military when there are complaints ths was done on puropose etc.

    One key mistake that people are being pushed to make is that the problem is core islam. It isn’t, because this problem did not exist at all 50 years ago. (even if it did exist 1300 years ago, and again periodically again from time to time, although the idea of random killings of civilians where no war exists being a good deed is probably totally new.)

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  246. The Islamic Council of North America may not be lying so much about Islam as they are about what they are teaching.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  247. 168. Comment by JD (b63a52) — 5/1/2013 @ 7:12 pm

    Obama lied, Sammy. Issa sent letters in the last 2 weeks. There were very public statements the day before from Toensing. His administration has hidden the survivors, and he feigned ignorance. And the MFM just nodded.

    Can you give me the deatils? What did the letetrs say?

    Is the issue of people not being given an opportunity to testify? (this is not the same as “blocking” them except maybe that there is a problem with coming forward without a subpoena because everything they deal with is classified information.)

    Does the testimony that people want to give conmcern what practical help might have been given to rescue the people at the compound had the order been given? Does it concern what was happening that night?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  248. Ermagawd!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

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