Patterico's Pontifications

4/26/2013

Interview with Tsarnaev Carjacking Victim

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:32 pm

On a normal day, this would count as the most interesting thing I had read all day. But the NYT Pigford story came out today, so we’ll call this the second most interesting thing I read all day:

After a zigzagging trek through Brighton, Watertown, and back to Cambridge, Danny would seize his chance for escape at the Shell Station on Memorial Drive, his break turning on two words — “cash only” — that had rarely seemed so welcome.

When the younger brother, Dzhokhar, was forced to go inside the Shell Food Mart to pay, older brother Tamerlan put his gun in the door pocket to fiddle with a navigation device — letting his guard down briefly after a night on the run. Danny then did what he had been rehearsing in his head. In a flash, he unbuckled his seat belt, opened the door, stepped through, slammed it behind, and sprinted off at an angle that would be a hard shot for any marksman.

“F—!” he heard Tamerlan say, feeling the rush of a near-miss grab at his back, but the man did not follow. Danny reached the haven of a Mobil station across the street, seeking cover in the supply room, shouting for the clerk to call 911.

His quick-thinking escape, authorities say, allowed police to swiftly track down the Mercedes, abating a possible attack by the brothers on New York City and precipitating a wild shootout in Watertown that would seriously wound one officer, kill Tamerlan, and leave a severely injured Dzhokhar hiding in the neighborhood.

Read it all.

55 Responses to “Interview with Tsarnaev Carjacking Victim”

  1. I see one more Teen Beat/Tiger Beat photo of Dozar teh heartthrob murdering che che Chechen, I may kill myself.

    Colonel Haiku (a0e22f)

  2. you kinda pretty obviously must not’ve read about One Direction’s biggest fan getting torn apart by a pack of wild dogs

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  3. Danny’s ordeal helps put the Boston lockdown/curfew in more favorable perspective.

    nk (875f57)

  4. After an entire week of hearing that the driver of the Mercedes was alive because the vampire brothers “let him go”, this makes so much more sense. This is one of the most amazing parts of the story and for sure had the greatest impact on their arrest…..and yet the media are more concerned that we not judge islam too harshly and that little brother is really not culpable cause he liked cats.

    If they were planning on going to NYC to set of more “Ayers for Islam” devices, there’s no way this guy was going to end up anywhere other than a “wooded area”.

    harkin (c1357f)

  5. I also think the lockdown was legit. Two crazy guys with bombs in one specific area? It was the best way to find them.

    Winston (be0117)

  6. Really good post. After reading the article, as a test I waited about 90 minutes to comment here–the amount of time that Danny was held hostage and was in fear of his life. It is a very long time.

    I never believed the “they let him go” story, either. The brothers were very, very stupid to choose a luxury car to hi-jack; There are so few of this model on the road, and also because of all the electronic equipment the Mercedes boasts with which they were unfamiliar and which ultimately helped do them in.

    Finally, I give some credit to the poor clerk at the gas station in which Danny sought refuge. He must have been mightily scared and confused, too, when this hysterical man with no vehicle at the pumps and with very poor English burst in. Things could have gone much differently for NYC if in the first few minutes the clerk had reacted differently.

    Assuming it’s all true this article forces the reader to walk a while in the clerk’s and Danny’s moccasins and wonder how we might have reacted in the same circumstances . Despite it being the law in many places, it also makes the “pulling over to take a call” idea worth a second think if you’re alone in a dark area at night.

    elissa (2a9d77)

  7. I would normally suggest that this guy should be deemed a hero, but he did repeat the bombers’ comments about being “Muslim” as if it were a national or ethnic designator. So the Defenders of Teh Narrative™ will probably vilify him for islamophobia.

    Funny to think about the number of illegal immigrants versus this fellow following the rules. I doubt he arrived in this country taking welfare payments, as well. He came to learn, and to work hard. And he did a good deed on top of it all. We should give him citizenship immediately, if he wants it.

    Plus I’m glad he called the girl in NYC.

    Simon Jester (9d2332)

  8. I agree I never bought the story that they let this guy go because he isn’t an American. I can buy they told him that they would let him go because they only wanted to kill Americans. But then like the 9/11 hijackers they didn’t much care who they killed. And as these Islamists have demonstrated, in many cases they consider the non-Americans worse because they cooperated. Especially the Muslims they find; they consider them apostates.

    Besides, even in a run-of-the-mill carjacking if they take the driver hostage instead of just taking the car the odds of the driver surviving are pretty low. I can’t imagine a pair that would place a bomb by an 8 year old boy having any respect for Danny’s life. He was wise to escape when he could.

    I’m sure the police knew the real story. But throughout the press has been trying to make this pair out as somehow sympathetic once they found out they were Muslims. The reporting has been crap, and I think that bogus “they let him go” story was just another example of that impulse.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  9. The Globe article is well written and has an attention grabbing title, too:

    *Carjack victim recounts his harrowing night*

    Hey, you know what would also catch my attention? An article titled:

    *Benghazi victim survivors recount their harrowing night*

    Maybe Eric Moskowitz of the Globe staff could go for a two-fer on exclusives.

    elissa (2a9d77)

  10. Not sure if they mentioned it here but the best part about this story was the ‘coexist’ bumper sticker on the victim’s Mercedes.

    UncleDan (71f73f)

  11. The Tsarnaev’s did commit what are ordinarily considered heinous crimes such as carjacking. But there are two articles out today that discuss how wrong it is to consider them criminal defendants.

    And explore to what dishonest and heinous lengths the Obama administration will go to classify them as criminal defendants and why.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/346785/obama%E2%80%99s-national-security-fraud/page/0/1

    Obama’s National-Security Fraud
    The administration’s Boston explanations don’t add up.
    By Andrew C. McCarthy

    Unlike you, federal government officials are immune from charges of fraud. The executive branch, vested with all of the government’s prosecutorial authority and discretion, is not going to investigate its own operatives for carrying out its own mendacious policies.

    That is the story of last week’s Boston Marathon bombing and the frantic efforts of the bombers, the brothers Tsarnaev, to evade capture, shoot it out with police (one of whom they killed, and another of whom they wounded), and — we’re now told — detonate more bombs in Times Square.

    …Strange, isn’t it? We are governed by leftists given to finger-wagging about their commitment to due process and the rule of law — they’re not like those bad old warmongering Bushies. Still, here we are in the post-arrest phase of the civilian prosecution the administration was hell-bent on commencing — the phase when due process obliges government officials to remain mum about non-public investigative information that could taint the jury pool and undermine the defendant’s right to a fair trial — and we’re being inundated with stunning confession evidence.

    Remember, this is the same crowd that labels the Fort Hood massacre “workplace violence” and won’t honor its victims with Purple Heart medals. To do so, they sniff, might prejudice the objectivity of the trial of a jihadist mass murderer who has publicly announced he’d like to plead guilty. Now, though, in Tsarnaev’s case, government agencies are leaking like sieves.

    Why?

    Because you are being softened up. Steered by its Gitmo Bar veterans and Lawyer Left compass, the Obama administration is executing a massive national-security fraud: the farce that the jihad against America can be judicialized, that civilian-court processes are a better answer to enemy warfare than are combat protocols.

    That is why Eric Holder’s Justice Department, together with the FBI, darted into federal court in Boston last Sunday evening to file the complaint against Tsarnaev. Obama was determined to end the public debate over whether the jihadist is a wartime enemy combatant or a mere criminal defendant. As in the case of Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, Osama bin Laden’s son-in-law and al-Qaeda’s alleged “consigliere,” who was whisked into the country and into civilian court before anyone even realized he’d been captured, the administration calculated that a fait accompli is the best way to impose the president’s deeply unpopular preferences.

    http://ricochet.com/main-feed/The-Wrong-Standards-for-Tsarnaev

    The Wrong Standards for Tsarnaev
    John Yoo· April 27, 2013 at 5:22pm

    … First, the Obama administration, buying the idea that terrorism is really a problem for law enforcement, decided not to designate the surviving Tsarnaev brother as an enemy combatant and to conduct his interrogation under the rules reserved for garden-variety criminals. The Obama Administration limited its ability to ask questions of Tsarnaev without Miranda warnings or a defense lawyer present only to a narrow “public safety” exception, which runs only to questions about imminent dangers and crimes.
    Now the news comes that the person who actually read the Miranda warning to Tsarnaev wasn’t even an FBI agent, but a U.S. magistrate judge (magistrate judges are sort of like junior federal judges — they are appointed by the courts to assist them, but they are not real judges, and are subject to revision by real federal judges).

    This is an outright violation of the separation of powers. It is not for federal judges, or worse yet their assistants, to rove around looking for criminal cases in which to act as law enforcement agents. The decision whether to read Miranda lies up to the executive branch.

    We can safely say the decision to mirandize this guy was made by the executive branch. As McCarthy points out it was the DoJ that set this chain of events in motion. And the Magistrate wouldn’t have been able to get into that prison hospital unless DoJ arranged it.

    Now, as McCarthy points out, ship stain can trade information in return for a plea deal. Which is exactly how former terrorist defense attorney Eric Holder and President Prom Queen want it.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  12. 4. Comment by harkin (c1357f) — 4/27/2013 @ 7:18 am

    After an entire week of hearing that the driver of the Mercedes was alive because the vampire brothers “let him go”, this makes so much more sense.

    I heard that before – that he had escaped – and mentioned it here, albeit without giving any source. But I was not clear that there were two different gas stations involved.

    I mentioned this in comment 67 in the thread started Saturday night April 20 entitled: Report: FBI Told Bomber’s Family They Knew He Was an “Extremist Leader” Filed under: General— Patterico @ 6:55 pm

    67.Daleyrocks – I really had a good question Friday – somehow they were found.

    This is how: The car jack victim reported the carjacking and his cell phone was still in the car turned on. They ddin’t chad ethem all the way. They found the car. The car jack victim escaped was not released, when Jihar went into the store.

    What I said that Friday on a previous thread was that somehow the police wound up chasing them. (It was a mystery to me as to how they could have known. Then I found out about the cellphone left in the car.

    Here technology got ahead of the robbers. Just like in 1982, two robbers with guns cut the telephone wires in the Bronx. Most people had modular cords by then.

    I could also mention Friend of Bill Jay William Buford, the head of the BATF in Little Rock, who was one of the chief if not the main planner of the Waco raid, and planned it down to his murdering personally three of his own men. He cut off the telephone communications David Koresh had but did not reckon on cell phones, so Koresh was able to communicate and get a ceasefire, and Buford was perhaps only saved from the death house by President Bill Clinton arranging to murder most of the Branch Davidians, because if he had survbived and the compound not been burned down, the truth about who killed Robert J. Williams, Todd McKeehan, and Conway LeBleu would have become known.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42) — 4/21/2013 @ 1:44 pm

    This is one of the most amazing parts of the story and for sure had the greatest impact on their arrest…..and yet the media are more concerned that we not judge islam too harshly and that little brother is really not culpable cause he liked cats.

    If they were planning on going to NYC to set of more “Ayers for Islam” devices, there’s no way this guy was going to end up anywhere other than a “wooded area”.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  13. I better explain this:

    There was an article about a week in the life of President Clinton in
    the Tuesday, March 9, 1993 Wall Street Journal. You can read. . .

    For March 1:

    « He also wants to know the condition of one particular ATF agent who
    was wounded at Waco: Jay William Buford, an acquaintance of his from
    Arkansas. »

    AND

    « And Deputy Treasury Secretary Altman is dispatched to Waco to visit
    Mr. Buford and the other wounded agents. »

    And, under Wednesday, March 3:

    « Mr. Altman reports on his trip to Waco and his visit with the
    President’s friend, Mr. Buford, who was nicked in the nose by a bullet.
    The president wants to know if there will be any permanent scarring. Mr.
    Altman says he doesn’t think so. »

    Now this last sentence indicates that SOMEBODY went to a great deal
    of trouble to lie. You all know Altman, of course, from Whitewater. If
    he and Clinton didn’t stage a phony conversation, the paper lied.

    In Massacre at Waco, Buford’s wounds are described as much more serious
    and he is said to have rolled off the roof. In the Treasury Department
    report he is said to have had two wounds in the legs, which is probably
    the truth.

    Now, just who is Buford? Well, he’s not just any old ATF agent, but
    the special agent in charge for the ATF in Little Rock, Arkansas and
    one of the leaders of the raid.

    Now, there is some video footage of the raid, shot by TV station KWTX,
    Channel 10 in Waco, included in Linda Thompson’s famous Waco video. Bits
    of it were rebroadcast for a few seconds during the CBS Evening News of
    Wednesday, May 5, 1995 although not the segment showing Buford killing
    the other agents under his command, and I’m not sure if the network
    has the crucial frames. But the quality of the tape is very good.

    It shows two groups of four agents climbing ladders to reach a
    second floor roof. Once there, one group of agents break a
    second-floor window. Three go in, and the fourth apparently throws
    some kind of smoke grenade into the house after them. There then is
    a short cut in the tape, in Linda Thompson’s version at least, and the
    fourth man then fires a MP-5 machine-gun into the room.

    Originally, the BATF claimed that three men died in that room, and that
    is what the caption in the March 15, 1993 issue of Newsweek indicates.

    However, in the final Treasury Department report, the group that went
    to the “weapons” room (which wasn’t actually a weapons room, but that
    was the excuse for sending them there) consisted of only three men, and
    all three survived, and one of them is Buford!! While Robert J. Williams
    is said to have died outside the room on the roof, Todd McKeehan and
    Conway LaBleu are totally bereft of any place or cause of death.

    I believe that that man with the MP-5 machine-gun is Jay William Buford,
    the head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in Little Rock.
    He was the leader of one of three groups the raiders were broken into -
    the one called “New Orleans” (Of course his connection to Little Rock
    did not get into most of the press when he testified at the trial of
    Branch Davidians in 1994, but can be found in books etc. The New York
    Times did not cover his testimony, and two stories I saw electronically
    posted, from the Austin American Statesman and from the Houston
    Chronicle, associated him with New Orleans rather than Little Rock.
    President Bill Clinton was very successful in keeping the Little Rock
    connection out of public consciousness.)

    You can look at a still frame of that KWTX-TV videotape on page 52-53 of
    the March 15, 1993 Newsweek. There’s Buford (I think that man is Buford)
    holding a MP-5 machine gun, keeping himself to the left of and just
    below the level of that window. That must be just before or just after
    he shot Robert J. Williams, Todd McKeehan, and Conway LeBleu. It’s
    available in almost any public library. The picture is in black and
    white, although the original videotape was shot in color and NEWSWEEK
    printed other color photographs on the same page, and is extremely
    blurry, although you could probably not recognize a face anyway in
    that shot, since he’s not looking right at the camera. He is also
    evidentally wearing the sort of a helmet made of cloth and goggles
    that another ATF agent is seen wearing in another picture on page 54-55.

    The picture is actually captioned as being that of an ATF agent being
    hit. And perhaps Buford was hit around then. . .by his own men firing
    back at him before they died. That may have been the reason that was
    there in the first place as sort of a pre-emptive defense. The quality
    of the picture was deliberately degraded because although shot in color,
    it was printed in black and white. Newsweek (and the Washington Post
    company) are very closely allied to Clinton (although the Washingon Post
    sometimes breaks anti-Clinton stories to cushion the impact) and
    Newsweek ran a cover story entitled “Children of the Cult” for the May
    17, 1993 – only six weeks after they had run ANOTHER cover story
    debunking the child sexual abuse network of psychiatrists and social
    workers. But when it came to Waco, and covering up for Clinton, suddenly
    all that had merit.

    I think the cut in the Waco big lie videotape was made by none other
    than. . .

    . . .Linda Thompson, who is actually secretly working for Clinton and
    leads people to beelive that the evidence is less solid than it is,
    and throws in false evidence and started this whole militia movement, which
    attempts to portray Waco as a case in point of somw imaginary conspiracy
    by the U.N. to take over the United States rather than the prime case in
    point of Bill Clinton’s abuse of power.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  14. The New York Times on Thursday said the carjacking took place in Alston and here it says Brighton but this is explained in this wikipedia article:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton,_Boston

    Brighton, across the river from Cambridge – on the same side of the river as the end of the marathon, used to be part of the city of Cambridge, Massachusetts until 1807, when there was a bridge dispute. It was annexed to Boston in 1874.

    The neighborhood of Allston was also formerly part of the City of Brighton, but is now often considered separately, leading to the moniker Allston-Brighton for the combined area.

    I also read here for the first time that Tamerlan not only confessed to the Boston marathon bombing (telling this at the beginning of course, to help him carjack the car, not as some reports said telling him to tell that to the police, which woiuld imply they intended to release him and didn’t make any sense> I read now that he also said he had killed a policeman.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  15. ‘Misha’ Speaks: An Interview with the Alleged Boston Bomber’s ‘Svengali’ – New York Review of Books

    The New York Review of Books is very much a left wing publication.

    His name is Mikhail Allakhverdov, he is a convert to Islam of Ukrainian and Armenia descent, 39 years old. He said he gave them his computer and my phone and everything to show he hadn’t done anything, and the agents who talked to him told him they are about to close his case and they said they are about to return his computer and phone to him.

    Someone in the comments says his name means “Allah-believer” in Russian. Possibly it could be an Armenian name, which means his family was Moslem before at some point under the Turks, or possibly it could be a name he assumed after conversion. Someone else says Allahverdi is a town in northern Armenia named after a 17th century Islamized Georgian general for the Safavid Empire named Allahverdi. Ov is a Russified ending common in Baku. Then someone says that the name is combination of Azergayjani and Russian. And very few Armenians partook in Surname Russification Policy is also weird. And he doesn’t look Armenian. Others say he can convert but would become identified as a Turk by doing that. someone says that Allaverdi is also Georgian–Orthodox Christian–for God be with you. It is the name of a famous Georgian monastery, Georgian wines.

    So this leads us nowhere, except that he might very well not be very important in this story. Misha does not seem to be denying he had some kind of influence on Tamerlan, just that he had nothing to do with the bomb plot, and had never been his teacher..

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  16. Comment by Steve57 (da9e0e) — 4/28/2013 @ 9:36 pm

    We can safely say the decision to mirandize this guy was made by the executive branch. As McCarthy points out it was the DoJ that set this chain of events in motion.

    They blame the judge, but they started the clock rolling. And the people doing the interrogating didn’t have a correct understanding of how much time they had.

    And the Magistrate wouldn’t have been able to get into that prison hospital unless DoJ arranged it.

    Now, as McCarthy points out, ship stain can trade information in return for a plea deal. Which is exactly how former terrorist defense attorney Eric Holder and President Prom Queen want it.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  17. “They blame the judge, but they started the clock rolling. And the people doing the interrogating didn’t have a correct understanding of how much time they had.”

    Sammy – Do judges regularly Mirandize people or is it people who take suspects into custody? Who arranged for the judge to visit the hospital? What causes you to conclude the people interrogating Johar did not have a correct understanding of the time they had?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  18. Some more details on who he may have been in contact with;

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/canadian-boxer-had-links-to-boston-bomber-20130429-2io3k.html

    narciso (c62917)

  19. Sammy – Does this remind you of how NASA faked the moon landing?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  20. I just saw this, wondering if its something:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323798104578453190708251284.html

    Female DNA has been recovered from one of the bombs in the Boston Marathon attack.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  21. 20. Female DNA has been recovered from one of the bombs in the Boston Marathon attack.

    Comment by SarahW (b0e533) — 4/29/2013 @ 2:34 pm

    Of course. They were pressure cookers, SarahW. And cooking is women’s work.

    You don’t think a Muslim terrorist is going to cook for himself, do you?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  22. Mom’s kitchen and all.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  23. Why are girls so stupid.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  24. Not touching that.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  25. Why is water wet?
    Why is Perry dishonest?
    Why are the Cubs horrible?

    JD (b63a52)

  26. In excess of $100,000 in pubic assistance since 2002, every conceivable form of government assistance.

    JD (b63a52)

  27. Guys can be pretty stupid, too. Adam Savader thought he’d be tough to find.

    http://www.fbi.gov/detroit/press-releases/2013/new-york-man-charged-with-internet-extortion-and-cyber-stalking

    A 21-year-old Great Neck, New York man was charged in a criminal complaint in the Eastern District of Michigan with Internet extortion and cyber stalking, announced United States Attorney Barbara L. McQuade.

    Joining in the announcement were Special Agent in Charge Robert D. Foley, III, Federal Bureau of Investigation, and Chief John Seto, Ann Arbor Police Department.

    According to the affidavit, from May 2012 through February 2013, Adam Paul Savader sent anonymous text messages using Google Voice numbers to 15 women stating that he had nude photographs of the women and threatening to distribute the nude photographs to the women’s friends and family members unless the women sent him more nude photographs of themselves. Savader sent some of the victims links to a photo-sharing website where nude pictures of the victims had been posted.

    The case was brought to the attention of the Federal Bureau of Investigation by detectives from the Ann Arbor Police Department, who received a complaint from a victim stating that she had received threatening messages from a person who had illegally obtained nude photographs of her from her e-mail account.

    As you can see from the complaint…

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/137623866/US-v-Adam-Savader-Complaint

    …he wasn’t hard to track. He’s clearly a geek, but his mad computer geek skillz clearly weren’t what he thought they were.

    Although I’ve got to say neither gender covered themselves with much glory here. It looks like every girl he lusted after in high school has naked pictures of themselves somewhere out in cyberspace.

    What’s up with that?

    As far as the perp goes I’m thinking he still holds a grudge because nobody shared the nude selfies these girls were probably sexting to all the other high school boys except him.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  28. The people of the commonwealth of Ma. funded the bombings. I feel like a traitor.

    mg (31009b)

  29. mg, we can’t blame the people of Massachusetts for that. We’re all doing it. What do you think all that foreign aid going to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (among other places) is going to come back to us as?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  30. JD – It’s like one of those trick questions about whether another woman is HAWT or the dress and the butt.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  31. Well we all lose our charms in the end. But how at the height of saucy youth these girls end up in thrall to worthless goons I’ll just never understand.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  32. 29 @ Steve57
    Personally, I do feel as if I had a part in this. Being aware that are govt.is a farce and doing nothing, makes me feel as if I played a part. Paying the way for the commonwealth elites mental madness has to stop.

    mg (31009b)

  33. SarahW, I think if we find the answer to why girls post nude pics of themselves to the internet, email them to ex-boyfriends (!) only to be “made famous,” and feel the need to start sexting in High School we’ll probably find the answer to that mystery as well.

    Speaking of mysteries, over at HotAir they’re speculating that even if Katherine Tsarnaev’s DNA is on some of the bomb components it’ll be hard to prove she was consciously aiding these two in their plot. After all, some of the components are innocuous everyday devices. And her dear departed husband apparently ordered her about, so he could have sent her out to buy some of these things without knowing why.

    Unless, they speculate, younger brother is prepared to provide that information in exchange for a plea bargain.

    So the mystery is, why did this traitorous administration mirandize this character and treat him like an ordinary criminal so any information he so far has withheld becomes a bargaining chip?

    Actually I think I answered my own question.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  34. Yet his bride/slave seems to have been ready to warn her spouse and brother-in-law that the police were after them – watching them, without doing a single thing to alert authorities or suggest they turn themselves in.

    She knew. She had to know.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  35. Paul Begala has written what is in my opinion a very worthwhile essay about the Boston bombers.

    Already the storyline that is emerging about the one surviving Boston Marathon murderer is too sympathetic for my taste. The simple story of a younger brother led astray by his older sibling perhaps makes the monstrous murder more understandable for some. But I’m not buying it. I don’t like the narrative of the poor, young immigrant (his friends call him “Joe”—how all-American) manipulated by his evil older brother (whom he conveniently ran over with an SUV—some victim). This scum allegedly placed a bomb at the feet of an 8-year-old and waltzed away. Let’s be very careful not to paint this murderer (alleged, I know—alleged, alleged, alleged murderer) as a victim.

    In fact, why depict him at all? Why don’t the media blot out his face and his name? Let’s deny him and all other mass killers the notoriety they seem to crave. Let’s just call him the Boston murderer or the Boston terrorist. Let’s put a black bar across his eyes in pictures. Why not?

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2013/04/29/paul-begala-our-obsession-with-the-boston-terrorists.html

    elissa (718c61)

  36. This is somewhat off-topic but I wonder if the Tsarnaev’s failure to have a getaway plan, as well as the relative ease with which they were caught, actually provides support for the idea that they had help for their jihad. This sounds counterintuitive but here’s why I say it:

    The sophistication of the Tsarnaev’s bombs suggests they had assistance from Al Qaeda or the Chechen movement, i.e., that they were told how to make and detonate the bombs, and how to maximize the damage from the bombs. However, that doesn’t mean they were told how to devise an escape plan. Frankly, escape plans don’t seem high on the jihadi planning list since most of these groups need martyrs.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  37. Kind of expanding on DRJ’s thought: Maybe they were supposed to keep the backpacks on their backs or at least close and they just were not enough into jihad to be suicide bombers.

    If you think about it, putting the bags on the ground certainly resulted in carnage, but not as many deaths as they might have liked.

    Plus, they were young and Westernized to an extent. Maybe they didn’t want to die, but they did want to serve the cause while being able to live another day.

    Just a random thought.

    Ag80 (19f299)

  38. I agree, Sarah. If that story turns out to be true.

    But so much of the reporting has been pure crap. We already know the reports that ship stain told investigators the brothers made the bombs using instructions from Inspire off the internet are false. The bombs weren’t constructed according to those instructions.

    The story that she called and warned them and that’s what set off the carjacking, cop killing, car chase, and shootouts seems awfully questionable to me.

    Eyewitnesses place ship stain back at his dorm Tuesday and Wednesday. People saw him in the gym, and he partied with his pot head friends. All the other students say all they were talking about was the Boston Marathon bombing. So with all the TVs and internet access available in college dorms these days, plus his own web enabled phone, he didn’t already know the police were releasing photos of him and his brother? They only learned that when his sister-in-law called to warn them?

    I can’t see that.

    He was tweeting about the bombing. People weren’t tweeting him back about or the manhunt? The eye-witness reports from students were in articles written by local journalists who interviewed them. They were named sources. I tend to trust that a bit more to any of this stuff supposedly coming from inside the investigation attributed to anonymous sources. Much of which has been contradictory and/or already exposed as completely bogus.

    So I’ll take a wait and see attitude on the notion she did in fact call and warn her brother. I’m sure she probably did call speed bump over course of the days between the bombing and his demise. But then she was married to him. If she says she called him but didn’t warn him, and ship stain says she did, who are we supposed to believe? The bomber? It isn’t like we have a recording of what is said on every cell phone conversation.

    I think though that we can place the fact that she was stupid for getting involved with the guy in the first place firmly into the “confirmed” column, though.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  39. 37. However, that doesn’t mean they were told how to devise an escape plan. Frankly, escape plans don’t seem high on the jihadi planning list since most of these groups need martyrs.

    Comment by DRJ (a83b8b) — 4/29/2013 @ 6:51 pm

    Recall how one of the conspirators responsible for the 1993 WTC bombing, Mohammed Salameh, was caught. He went back to the Ryder truck rental place to try to get his deposit back.

    He was what is called an expendable. Expendables don’t get escape plans. It seems remarkably stupid for him to go back and try to get the deposit, but he needed it when he realized he had to try and escape.

    Ramzi Yousef was not an expendable. He had an escape plan. He entered the US on a false Iraqi passport and requested asylum. AND IMMIGRATION LET HIM IN!. Then he fled the country using his Pakistani passport. He had a plan and the money to execute it.

    The Boston Marathon bombing does have similarities to the WTC bombing in that regard, does it not? And just another reason why I despise Holder and Obama for not treating the surviving ship stain as an enemy combatant and instead as a criminal defendant.

    I think you’re probably right; the fact they didn’t try to escape on their own indicates that they had outside help. And that they expected that outside help to aid them to escape. So they just went back to their lives and waited. Until they realized the outside help wasn’t coming and they panicked.

    I seriously doubt you’d get dupes to go through with these things if you tell them up front that they’re expendable and after the bombing they’re on their own.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  40. I blame mg.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  41. Regarding the female DNA, that is not an actual surprise. They were both young men. Whether it was the wife or another woman is the question. Since the media is often wrong, I would reserve judgment at this point.

    Ag80 (19f299)

  42. Elissa – I find it ironic that now Begala wants people to shut up about the bombers and their motives. Surely he has made similar entreaties in the past 13 years. I am positive his current reticence has no partisan motives.

    JD (b63a52)

  43. I know he can be a partisan jerk, JD. I just happen to think Begala’s right about this. From the innocent looking tousle-haired youthful picture of little brother (shades of Trayvon) that is used in almost every article now –to the media theorizing that he was the pawn of his radicalized dead older brother–and now maybe even that he was pushed into jihad by his mother–Begala is saying Dzhokhar is a cold blooded killer. Let’s treat him as such.

    elissa (718c61)

  44. Elissa – I suppose he should be given due credit for finally being right about something, even if for the wrong reasons.

    JD (b63a52)

  45. From the innocent looking tousle-haired youthful picture of little brother (shades of Trayvon) that is used in almost every article now

    I hear he’s going to be on the cover of Seventeen, Glitter, and Teen People magazine next month, elissa.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  46. Comment by Steve57 (da9e0e) — 4/29/2013 @ 7:07 pm

    But so much of the reporting has been pure crap. We already know the reports that ship stain

    Who is ship stain?

    told investigators the brothers made the bombs using instructions from Inspire off the internet are false. The bombs weren’t constructed according to those instructions.

    I didn’t realize that. But I know that is false anyway. You can’t learn bombmaking by remote control. That whole issue of Inspire in that respect was disinformation.

    You can”t learn how to custom make bombs from printed matter. It’s a difficult skill. Consider the experiences of the “Weathermen” The bombs either didn’t work or they exploded too soon. Israel has had experience with bombs. Some times they fiound the bombmaker and they killed him, and that was the end of that kind of bomb for some time. That’s why there are no more suicide bombs.

    Terry Nichols didn’t learn this on his own either. He experimented in Michigan and failed. He had to go to the Phillipines to get personal instructions from “Ramzi Youssef” (pseudonym on a passport) to build the Oklahoma City bomb.

    That’s not the official theory which is that Timothy McVeigh was the instigator which goes against the evidence (tghe letter Terry Nichols left in case he didn’t come back) and logic (people recruit people younger than themselves not older. Both Tamerlan Tsarnev and Timothy McVeigh were 26. Tamerlan recruited his brotehr, age 19 not a 40 year old man)

    And the original World Trade Center bombers in 1993 had to be taught by “Ramzi Youssef” also.

    There is no sign that the Tsarnev brotehrs even experimented with a bomb here.

    So tghey are looking for abomb trainer, who was smost likely in Dagestan. The theiry being leaked by Russia now is he wanetd to get invoplved theer and lost his contact. I think it is possible he left in a hurry, without picking up his new Russian passport but not because he never made contact but because he had.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  47. Is ship stain the younger brother? He says he only got involved a few momnths before. It amkes sense. It talllies with what he did and the bomb plot probably doesn’t go back too far. Tamerlan applied for citizenship in September. he knows that takes time. What’s the point if he expects to build bombs at that time? He might want to wait till after he gets the passport maybe. Which has got to be at least a year. Maybe you can say he sees he is not going to get citizenship soon and then decided to build bombs.

    What I have heard is that the bomb was too sophisticated – not triggered by a timer, or a cell phone, but by a toy car remote control – which fits the facts of the way they exploded, as they would not have hung around till the last second if the bombs had worked with a timer. This was not the initial assumption – that’s why they were looking at video from an hour or two before.

    The story that she called and warned them and that’s what set off the carjacking, cop killing, car chase, and shootouts seems awfully questionable to me.

    Who called?

    Here’s the interesting contradiction, but this may be more indicative of the amateurishness of Tamerlan Tsarnaev than a contradiction. He tells Danny he’s did the bombing. Then later he tells him not to look at him. Doesn’t he know his picture is out there? I suppose at that point he thinks his name is not known. The video also isn’t too good. But does he really believe a verbal description can improve on video? Does he have an identifying feature?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  48. Eyewitnesses place ship stain back at his dorm Tuesday and Wednesday.

    The dorm was abouyt 40 miles south of Boston, in New Bedford, Massachusetts. But he also slept over at the home of two friends (business associates?) There were two men and a woman there – the woman apparently has diplomatic immunity, probably the daughter of a diplomat. A small bomb was also found there in that New Bedford location. The week before the bombing the younger brother had mostly been absent from campus.

    People saw him in the gym, and he partied with his pot head friends. All the other students say all they were talking about was the Boston Marathon bombing. So with all the TVs and internet access available in college dorms these days, plus his own web enabled phone, he didn’t already know the police were releasing photos of him and his brother? They only learned that when his sister-in-law called to warn them?

    Yes, that’s possible. The wrong pictures were out there.

    An aunt had telephoned the FBI.But that was lost amonmg all the otehr tips. I think she also said later to the press it couldn’t be them.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  49. Comment by Steve57 (da9e0e) — 4/29/2013 @ 7:32 pm

    Recall how one of the conspirators responsible for the 1993 WTC bombing, Mohammed Salameh, was caught. He went back to the Ryder truck rental place to try to get his deposit back.

    He was what is called an expendable. Expendables don’t get escape plans.

    Before that there was someone who came on the saame plane as “Ramzi Youssef” carrying all kinds of bomb manuals or whatever in his luggage. Once caught, the alertness of teh inspectors was satiated. “Ramzi Youssef” hjad an Iraqi passport and immediately claimned political asylum, which he was granted temporarily. BTW that person stayed in contact from prison with the bombers.

    I think all of them were expendable except Ramzi Youssef or wheoever left the country.

    It seems remarkably stupid for him to go back and try to get the deposit, but he needed it when he realized he had to try and escape.

    No, isn’t it obvioius he needed it for his cover story? If the truck had truly been stolen, then of course, he’d ask for his deposit back.

    Ramzi Yousef was not an expendable. He had an escape plan. He entered the US on a false Iraqi passport and requested asylum. AND IMMIGRATION LET HIM IN!.

    Especially since they had just caught the bomb plotter who came on that plane.

    The Boston Marathon bombing does have similarities to the WTC bombing in that regard, does it not?

    I think Al Qaeda et al have a much harder time placing people in the United States, than they did then, but there are questions., But the last few cases did not involved anyone except a few people who, once they were in the United States, attempted to carry oput plots on their own. Richard reid was alone. The underwear bomber was alone. The Times Squsre bomber was alone. Zazi pretty much was.

    I speculated some people could be in Canada.

    And just another reason why I despise Holder and Obama for not treating the surviving ship stain as an enemy combatant and instead as a criminal defendant.

    they couldn’t treat him that way legally unless they already knew he was part of Al Qaeda. Most likely the brother did not know any contacts of zTamerlan except accidentally.

    <I. I think you’re probably right; the fact they didn’t try to escape on their own indicates that they had outside help. And that they expected that outside help to aid them to escape. So they just went back to their lives and waited. Until they realized the outside help wasn’t coming and they panicked.

    No they were planning Round Two, and thought they would not be caught..

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  50. 35. Comment by SarahW (b0e533) — 4/29/2013 @ 6:03 pm

    Yet his bride/slave seems to have been ready to warn her spouse and brother-in-law that the police were after them – watching them, without doing a single thing to alert authorities or suggest they turn themselves in.

    She knew. She had to know.

    She has got lawyers., It took a few days to get her to agree to give a DNA sample. So she does have something to hide, although it may be completely irrelevant matters.

    Since very many people who knew Dzhokhar recognized him, it is logical that the sister in law would have also. But that may not mean they were ready to believe they were the bombers. The people who knew Dzohkhar from school didn’t call the FBI

    But she would have had a lot of more facts that would indicate this was possible. Like moving out recently. Even her cat was still there. Or was that Dzohkhar’s cat?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  51. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/29/2013 @ 1:52 pm

    Sammy – Does this remind you of how NASA faked the moon landing?

    NASA didn’t fake the moon landing, but the Russians faked a space walk before, or at least the pictures thereof.

    What is supposed to resmeble the supposed fake moon landing?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  52. “They blame the judge, but they started the clock rolling. And the people doing the interrogating didn’t have a correct understanding of how much time they had.”

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/29/2013 @ 1:08 pm

    Sammy – Do judges regularly Mirandize people or is it people who take suspects into custody? Who arranged for the judge to visit the hospital? What causes you to conclude the people interrogating Johar did not have a correct understanding of the time they had? </I.

    Leaks to the press, looks like more than one time. What I mean is the people doing the actual interrogating did not expecvt to be suddenly interrupted by a judge.

    Higher ups in the justice Department and/or the FBI set the ball rolling and did not correctly inform the agents in the hospital what to expect.

    At least that is what they seemed to be saying to the press, over and over again.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  53. CBS News has been featurinbg an interview with the carjack victim “Danny” by John Miller with voice altering a la 60 minutes since last nmights’s CBNS Evening News.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

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