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	<title>Comments on: A Compelling Piece About Cyberstalking &#8212; And How It Could Have Been *Much* Worse</title>
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	<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/23/a-compelling-piece-about-cyberstalking-and-how-it-could-have-been-much-worse/</link>
	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
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		<title>By: htom</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/23/a-compelling-piece-about-cyberstalking-and-how-it-could-have-been-much-worse/comment-page-1/#comment-1154065</link>
		<dc:creator>htom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2013 02:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72498#comment-1154065</guid>
		<description>This is so much worse than what I went through in the late 60&#039;s. How is it that the people doing these things are not being put away, either for psychiatric care or in prison?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is so much worse than what I went through in the late 60&#8242;s. How is it that the people doing these things are not being put away, either for psychiatric care or in prison?</p>
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		<title>By: Dustin</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/23/a-compelling-piece-about-cyberstalking-and-how-it-could-have-been-much-worse/comment-page-1/#comment-1153218</link>
		<dc:creator>Dustin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 02:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72498#comment-1153218</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; The judge bought into the “it’s an internet political fight” narrative that BK was spinning.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yep.  Their strategy was better than I had thought it was.  I didn&#039;t think that kind of explanation would waive all the harm done.  I honestly don&#039;t think it would if the partisanship were reversed, but maybe/hopefully I&#039;m wrong about that.

There were other defects which opened the door, but I think the reason that door was utilized was that &#039;this is all a political thing&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> The judge bought into the “it’s an internet political fight” narrative that BK was spinning.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yep.  Their strategy was better than I had thought it was.  I didn&#8217;t think that kind of explanation would waive all the harm done.  I honestly don&#8217;t think it would if the partisanship were reversed, but maybe/hopefully I&#8217;m wrong about that.</p>
<p>There were other defects which opened the door, but I think the reason that door was utilized was that &#8216;this is all a political thing&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Dustin</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/23/a-compelling-piece-about-cyberstalking-and-how-it-could-have-been-much-worse/comment-page-1/#comment-1153216</link>
		<dc:creator>Dustin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 02:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72498#comment-1153216</guid>
		<description>Good post, Pat.  Good discussion so far, too.  This story interests a lot of people, and I don&#039;t think that&#039;s going to change any time soon.

I think Mr Joubert is correct that the &#039;right wing extremist&#039; smear has managed to marginalize this issue with some officials in a way that thwarted justice.  For example, it&#039;s pretty shocking that local Maryland papers didn&#039;t cover the frame-up of Aaron.  Between the lines of some of the transcripts I do get the impression that some internet activism is more equal than others, in a way that limited what to me should be a lot of outrage.  

Team Kimberlin does a great job getting the message out there to folks that there are consequences for refusing to just stand aside to let people be wronged by them.  In my personal experience, they try to make clear that &#039;this isn&#039;t between us and you, if you just shut up now&#039;.  Then if you don&#039;t, they post a few comments about your painful demise, a photo of your house on a terrorist fansite, mention your loved ones.  In Patterico&#039;s case the logic of this kind of thuggery is clear.  He&#039;s got this huge blog and shines a bright spotlight.  In my case, the political conspiracy smears and other smears seemed ridiculous.  What do they even care if a commenter on a few blogs criticizes them?  Well, apparently they were trying to send a message to other people.

But there&#039;s a lot of good out there.  So many folks finally stood up and started speaking up.  Unlike with me, they had already seen the &#039;consequences&#039; when they decided to get involved.  Eventually there were many, some of them quite well spoken (like Mr Hoge).  How do you tear down dozens of people with nasty conspiracy theories without sounding like a maniac?  You don&#039;t.

It&#039;s a huge relief for me.  I&#039;m not a talented blogger or writer, and I also simply do not have the time if I were.  But I don&#039;t need to sweat that anymore.  Hundreds of folks at minimum care about this (based on the Popehat poll). That&#039;s been the cool part of this largely frustrating and sad story.  Whenever the smearing and the lawfare and the attacks on family are mentioned, my first thought is that so many people saw all that and decided they needed to take a stand.  There is still something really powerful still alive in this country that won&#039;t let evil pass unanswered.

Some of the people wronged have turned out to be jerks or maybe mentally in some kind of trouble, but on balance I&#039;d rather help out a nutty jerk than give pathological evil a break.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Indeed, Team Kimberlin tries to bait those of us following his saga with personal attacks. Several comments made about me would probably make good fodder for a defamation suit, but, as Stacy McCain points out, that would make me a part of the story rather than an observer reporting on it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And they are judgment proof.  And a lot of these attacks do not convince anyone worth worrying about (no damages).  At least that&#039;s my reaction to some of the stuff they&#039;ve said about me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post, Pat.  Good discussion so far, too.  This story interests a lot of people, and I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s going to change any time soon.</p>
<p>I think Mr Joubert is correct that the &#8216;right wing extremist&#8217; smear has managed to marginalize this issue with some officials in a way that thwarted justice.  For example, it&#8217;s pretty shocking that local Maryland papers didn&#8217;t cover the frame-up of Aaron.  Between the lines of some of the transcripts I do get the impression that some internet activism is more equal than others, in a way that limited what to me should be a lot of outrage.  </p>
<p>Team Kimberlin does a great job getting the message out there to folks that there are consequences for refusing to just stand aside to let people be wronged by them.  In my personal experience, they try to make clear that &#8216;this isn&#8217;t between us and you, if you just shut up now&#8217;.  Then if you don&#8217;t, they post a few comments about your painful demise, a photo of your house on a terrorist fansite, mention your loved ones.  In Patterico&#8217;s case the logic of this kind of thuggery is clear.  He&#8217;s got this huge blog and shines a bright spotlight.  In my case, the political conspiracy smears and other smears seemed ridiculous.  What do they even care if a commenter on a few blogs criticizes them?  Well, apparently they were trying to send a message to other people.</p>
<p>But there&#8217;s a lot of good out there.  So many folks finally stood up and started speaking up.  Unlike with me, they had already seen the &#8216;consequences&#8217; when they decided to get involved.  Eventually there were many, some of them quite well spoken (like Mr Hoge).  How do you tear down dozens of people with nasty conspiracy theories without sounding like a maniac?  You don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a huge relief for me.  I&#8217;m not a talented blogger or writer, and I also simply do not have the time if I were.  But I don&#8217;t need to sweat that anymore.  Hundreds of folks at minimum care about this (based on the Popehat poll). That&#8217;s been the cool part of this largely frustrating and sad story.  Whenever the smearing and the lawfare and the attacks on family are mentioned, my first thought is that so many people saw all that and decided they needed to take a stand.  There is still something really powerful still alive in this country that won&#8217;t let evil pass unanswered.</p>
<p>Some of the people wronged have turned out to be jerks or maybe mentally in some kind of trouble, but on balance I&#8217;d rather help out a nutty jerk than give pathological evil a break.</p>
<blockquote><p>Indeed, Team Kimberlin tries to bait those of us following his saga with personal attacks. Several comments made about me would probably make good fodder for a defamation suit, but, as Stacy McCain points out, that would make me a part of the story rather than an observer reporting on it.</p></blockquote>
<p>And they are judgment proof.  And a lot of these attacks do not convince anyone worth worrying about (no damages).  At least that&#8217;s my reaction to some of the stuff they&#8217;ve said about me.</p>
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		<title>By: Monitor</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/23/a-compelling-piece-about-cyberstalking-and-how-it-could-have-been-much-worse/comment-page-1/#comment-1153195</link>
		<dc:creator>Monitor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 02:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72498#comment-1153195</guid>
		<description>This is what drives me mad when I think about the Walker v. Kimberlin et. al. cases being dismissed.  The judge bought into the &quot;it&#039;s an internet political fight&quot; narrative that BK was spinning.  

I have the feeling that the judge leans a bit to the left too, so he was willing to give his fellow liberal a little bit more slack...or not allow any slack to the conservative...while deciding the case.

Grrr.  It still pisses me off.  pardon my french.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is what drives me mad when I think about the Walker v. Kimberlin et. al. cases being dismissed.  The judge bought into the &#8220;it&#8217;s an internet political fight&#8221; narrative that BK was spinning.  </p>
<p>I have the feeling that the judge leans a bit to the left too, so he was willing to give his fellow liberal a little bit more slack&#8230;or not allow any slack to the conservative&#8230;while deciding the case.</p>
<p>Grrr.  It still pisses me off.  pardon my french.</p>
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		<title>By: Patterico</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/23/a-compelling-piece-about-cyberstalking-and-how-it-could-have-been-much-worse/comment-page-1/#comment-1153193</link>
		<dc:creator>Patterico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 02:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72498#comment-1153193</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Indeed, Team Kimberlin tries to bait those of us following his saga with personal attacks. Several comments made about me would probably make good fodder for a defamation suit, but, as Stacy McCain points out, that would make me a part of the story rather than an observer reporting on it.

I don’t think that I should take their bait.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

My main problem is figuring out how to establish damages when the defamers have no credibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Indeed, Team Kimberlin tries to bait those of us following his saga with personal attacks. Several comments made about me would probably make good fodder for a defamation suit, but, as Stacy McCain points out, that would make me a part of the story rather than an observer reporting on it.</p>
<p>I don’t think that I should take their bait.</p></blockquote>
<p>My main problem is figuring out how to establish damages when the defamers have no credibility.</p>
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		<title>By: EPWJ</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/23/a-compelling-piece-about-cyberstalking-and-how-it-could-have-been-much-worse/comment-page-1/#comment-1153190</link>
		<dc:creator>EPWJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 02:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72498#comment-1153190</guid>
		<description>This whole thing is going to come crashing down on them</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole thing is going to come crashing down on them</p>
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		<title>By: W. J. J. Hoge</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/23/a-compelling-piece-about-cyberstalking-and-how-it-could-have-been-much-worse/comment-page-1/#comment-1153181</link>
		<dc:creator>W. J. J. Hoge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 02:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72498#comment-1153181</guid>
		<description>Indeed, Team Kimberlin tries to bait those of us following his saga with personal attacks. Several comments made about me would probably make good fodder for a defamation suit, but, as Stacy McCain points out, that would make me a part of the story rather than an observer reporting on it.

I don&#039;t think that I should take their bait.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, Team Kimberlin tries to bait those of us following his saga with personal attacks. Several comments made about me would probably make good fodder for a defamation suit, but, as Stacy McCain points out, that would make me a part of the story rather than an observer reporting on it.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that I should take their bait.</p>
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		<title>By: Patterico</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/23/a-compelling-piece-about-cyberstalking-and-how-it-could-have-been-much-worse/comment-page-1/#comment-1153169</link>
		<dc:creator>Patterico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 01:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72498#comment-1153169</guid>
		<description>G Joubert,

Gotcha. Sorry if I jumped down your throat unfairly; I thought I had detected a &quot;man up, politics is a tough business&quot; flavor to your commentary. If that&#039;s not what you meant then I guess I overreacted.

As for your point that liberals would get more attention: it&#039;s hard to shake the suspicion that you are right. After all, look at what our friend the stalked professor says in his piece:

&lt;blockquote&gt;The Amazon postings came down, but others went up, portraying me as a racist, a thief, an all-round creep. Here I was, a standard-issue liberal with unimpeachably correct views on everything, casting the shadow of some leering, reactionary bigot. &quot;It&#039;s worrisome that he teaches at colleges ... .&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ah. See, I have been called a racist, a creep, a scam artist, and plenty of other things by the Kimberlin/Rauhauser crowd. And it was every bit as untrue and unfair when they said it about me as it was when Nasreen said it about our friend the professor. And yet, it seems, because I hold views that are not liberal, and that the professor does not consider &quot;unimpeachably correct,&quot; it appears that the very same lies being told about me should not occasion the same surprise as he felt when they were said about him.

Is that sort of feeling widespread among the left? I bet it is fairly so, yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>G Joubert,</p>
<p>Gotcha. Sorry if I jumped down your throat unfairly; I thought I had detected a &#8220;man up, politics is a tough business&#8221; flavor to your commentary. If that&#8217;s not what you meant then I guess I overreacted.</p>
<p>As for your point that liberals would get more attention: it&#8217;s hard to shake the suspicion that you are right. After all, look at what our friend the stalked professor says in his piece:</p>
<blockquote><p>The Amazon postings came down, but others went up, portraying me as a racist, a thief, an all-round creep. Here I was, a standard-issue liberal with unimpeachably correct views on everything, casting the shadow of some leering, reactionary bigot. &#8220;It&#8217;s worrisome that he teaches at colleges &#8230; .&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Ah. See, I have been called a racist, a creep, a scam artist, and plenty of other things by the Kimberlin/Rauhauser crowd. And it was every bit as untrue and unfair when they said it about me as it was when Nasreen said it about our friend the professor. And yet, it seems, because I hold views that are not liberal, and that the professor does not consider &#8220;unimpeachably correct,&#8221; it appears that the very same lies being told about me should not occasion the same surprise as he felt when they were said about him.</p>
<p>Is that sort of feeling widespread among the left? I bet it is fairly so, yes.</p>
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		<title>By: narciso</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/23/a-compelling-piece-about-cyberstalking-and-how-it-could-have-been-much-worse/comment-page-1/#comment-1153140</link>
		<dc:creator>narciso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 01:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72498#comment-1153140</guid>
		<description>How about focus on the actual circumstance, the tea party was slandered with words they didn&#039;t say, actions they didn&#039;t take, certain parties forced the Bush administration to release Gitmo detainees,
the most recent ones, were behind the attack in Benghazi, and previously another, directed the underwear bombing plot, for AQAP, we could refer to a stream of bogus lawsuits directed at a certain political figure,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about focus on the actual circumstance, the tea party was slandered with words they didn&#8217;t say, actions they didn&#8217;t take, certain parties forced the Bush administration to release Gitmo detainees,<br />
the most recent ones, were behind the attack in Benghazi, and previously another, directed the underwear bombing plot, for AQAP, we could refer to a stream of bogus lawsuits directed at a certain political figure,</p>
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		<title>By: G Joubert</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/23/a-compelling-piece-about-cyberstalking-and-how-it-could-have-been-much-worse/comment-page-1/#comment-1153126</link>
		<dc:creator>G Joubert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2013 00:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72498#comment-1153126</guid>
		<description>Patterico,

Just so you know, I&#039;m not trying to argue with you. I hope I didn&#039;t miss your point, and I don&#039;t think I did. I know this isn&#039;t a garden variety political dispute, which is the camouflage BK hides behind, and it leads to others just write it all off as mere political bickering, which it isn&#039;t. I get that.

I&#039;m trying to add the point that those engaging in political commentary, criticism, and opinion-giving, be it Limbaugh or a noteworthy blogger, attract a special sort of kook not elsewhere seen: kooks who in addition to being kooks are also imbued with the fervor of being True Believers.  And by calling them &quot;kooks&quot; I&#039;m not minimizing their dangerousness or maliciousness. These people will do just about anything for their cause, with an ends-justifying-the-means mentality.  That&#039;s how you picked up BK and whomever it was that swatted you. These are not your every day stalkers.  These are obsessed amoral activists.

In addition to not being taken seriously because &quot;it&#039;s just a political dispute,&quot; there&#039;s another thing at work too.  Those advocating for conservative views are usually marginalized. Imagine a role-reversal. If it were tea partiers who were doing the lawfare thing, or if you were a liberal being attacked in the same way by conservatives, I can&#039;t help but think that those in authority, including LE and the courts, would be pursuing and taking the whole thing, including your case, more seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patterico,</p>
<p>Just so you know, I&#8217;m not trying to argue with you. I hope I didn&#8217;t miss your point, and I don&#8217;t think I did. I know this isn&#8217;t a garden variety political dispute, which is the camouflage BK hides behind, and it leads to others just write it all off as mere political bickering, which it isn&#8217;t. I get that.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m trying to add the point that those engaging in political commentary, criticism, and opinion-giving, be it Limbaugh or a noteworthy blogger, attract a special sort of kook not elsewhere seen: kooks who in addition to being kooks are also imbued with the fervor of being True Believers.  And by calling them &#8220;kooks&#8221; I&#8217;m not minimizing their dangerousness or maliciousness. These people will do just about anything for their cause, with an ends-justifying-the-means mentality.  That&#8217;s how you picked up BK and whomever it was that swatted you. These are not your every day stalkers.  These are obsessed amoral activists.</p>
<p>In addition to not being taken seriously because &#8220;it&#8217;s just a political dispute,&#8221; there&#8217;s another thing at work too.  Those advocating for conservative views are usually marginalized. Imagine a role-reversal. If it were tea partiers who were doing the lawfare thing, or if you were a liberal being attacked in the same way by conservatives, I can&#8217;t help but think that those in authority, including LE and the courts, would be pursuing and taking the whole thing, including your case, more seriously.</p>
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