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	<title>Comments on: Charts: The Problem Is Not Revenue But Spending, and Chuck Schumer and President Obama Are Not Being Honest</title>
	<atom:link href="http://patterico.com/2013/01/20/charts-the-problem-is-not-revenue-but-spending-and-chuck-schumer-and-president-obama-are-not-being-honest/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/20/charts-the-problem-is-not-revenue-but-spending-and-chuck-schumer-and-president-obama-are-not-being-honest/</link>
	<description>Harangues that just make sense</description>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/20/charts-the-problem-is-not-revenue-but-spending-and-chuck-schumer-and-president-obama-are-not-being-honest/comment-page-2/#comment-1150789</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2013 01:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72395#comment-1150789</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The voters are not stupid.&lt;/i&gt;

I wouldn&#039;t say that about the ones who perceive modern-day liberalism and, in turn, politicians identified with left-leaning biases, as being such a humane, generous, compassionate, tolerant, wise, noble and sophisticated facet of human existence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The voters are not stupid.</i></p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t say that about the ones who perceive modern-day liberalism and, in turn, politicians identified with left-leaning biases, as being such a humane, generous, compassionate, tolerant, wise, noble and sophisticated facet of human existence.</p>
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		<title>By: JD</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/20/charts-the-problem-is-not-revenue-but-spending-and-chuck-schumer-and-president-obama-are-not-being-honest/comment-page-2/#comment-1150786</link>
		<dc:creator>JD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2013 01:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72395#comment-1150786</guid>
		<description>DRJ - do you attribute that to ignorance or partisanship?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DRJ &#8211; do you attribute that to ignorance or partisanship?</p>
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		<title>By: DRJ</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/20/charts-the-problem-is-not-revenue-but-spending-and-chuck-schumer-and-president-obama-are-not-being-honest/comment-page-2/#comment-1150780</link>
		<dc:creator>DRJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2013 00:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72395#comment-1150780</guid>
		<description>Regarding stupid voters:  

Ken Burns isn&#039;t stupid but, prior to the 2012 election, he &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/331745/ken-burns-wrong-obama-deroy-murdock&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;repeated the claims made by the Obama campaign and the media&lt;/a&gt; concerning Romney, Bush and the economy.  Ultimately it&#039;s the voters&#039; responsibility to be informed but stories like this make me think our partisan media (as much as the voters) is to blame for Obama&#039;s re-election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding stupid voters:  </p>
<p>Ken Burns isn&#8217;t stupid but, prior to the 2012 election, he <a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/331745/ken-burns-wrong-obama-deroy-murdock" rel="nofollow">repeated the claims made by the Obama campaign and the media</a> concerning Romney, Bush and the economy.  Ultimately it&#8217;s the voters&#8217; responsibility to be informed but stories like this make me think our partisan media (as much as the voters) is to blame for Obama&#8217;s re-election.</p>
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		<title>By: Sammy Finkelman</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/20/charts-the-problem-is-not-revenue-but-spending-and-chuck-schumer-and-president-obama-are-not-being-honest/comment-page-2/#comment-1150559</link>
		<dc:creator>Sammy Finkelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72395#comment-1150559</guid>
		<description>The voters are not stupid.

There might possibly be an argument for making Social Security in part defined contribution, rather than defined benefit, but there&#039;s no honest argument for keeping it defined benefit but lowering the benefits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The voters are not stupid.</p>
<p>There might possibly be an argument for making Social Security in part defined contribution, rather than defined benefit, but there&#8217;s no honest argument for keeping it defined benefit but lowering the benefits.</p>
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		<title>By: Sammy Finkelman</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/20/charts-the-problem-is-not-revenue-but-spending-and-chuck-schumer-and-president-obama-are-not-being-honest/comment-page-2/#comment-1150557</link>
		<dc:creator>Sammy Finkelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72395#comment-1150557</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; Senate Democrats, while bristling at the demand for a budget &lt;/i&gt;

Seem about to be ready to cave in on that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> Senate Democrats, while bristling at the demand for a budget </i></p>
<p>Seem about to be ready to cave in on that.</p>
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		<title>By: Sammy Finkelman</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/20/charts-the-problem-is-not-revenue-but-spending-and-chuck-schumer-and-president-obama-are-not-being-honest/comment-page-2/#comment-1150556</link>
		<dc:creator>Sammy Finkelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2013 19:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72395#comment-1150556</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; I don’t think we should be using the debt ceiling as a negotiation point, because I think Obama would love to play hardball on that, and I think it makes more sense for us to play hardball on the budget than the debt ceiling. I think requiring the Senate to pass a budget makes sense; &lt;/i&gt;

So they did exactly the right thing, according to you, and certainly something that is better strategy. Yes, they backed down, sort of, but it is not a caving in. They came up with this in their retreat.

The situation was the debt limit would be reached between about February 15 and March 1. 

[Feb 15 was projected earlier as a possible drop dead date because it has $30 billion in interest payments due that day and  $6.8 billion in tax refunds (as well as $3.5 billion in salaries, $2.7 billion in military pay $2.3 billion in Medicaid and Medicare payments $1.5 billion in payments to military contractors) and only $9 billion or so coming in that day. 

But because the tax filing season started later, and the accumulated tax refunds sent out may be less  than originally projected, you might be able to go past Feb 15. And the Treasury could just freeze all tax refunds till the debt limit is raised..]  

On March 1 comes the sequester, and the continuing resolution runs out on March 27. 

The Republicans decided to make the debt ceiling last, by extending it a certain amount so that it would run out after three months, or somewhere around May 15 to 31. It would be an almost  clean debt limit extension. It would only have one little twist: If the Senate or the House didn&#039;t pass a budget resolution, by April 15 - in the middle of this extension - their salaries would be withheld. This is common in many states. There are some claims this might be unconstitutional, as the 27th amendment (sent  to the states in 1789, ratified in 1992) says pay of members of Congress cannot be &quot;varied&quot; between elections, and that means both down and up, but the consensus is since they get their pay anyway - it&#039;s just withheld - that would be all right - although I suppose budget or no budget they&#039;d have to get paid by December 31. Or maybe not but then they&#039;d be i a higher ax bracket in 2014.

Senator Schumer seems to indicate the Democrats have caved in on this - he says there will be a budget resolution by April 15, so the Republicans win the point.

&lt;i&gt; but Democrats have to be honest about spending. &lt;/i&gt;

...and on taxes. The House budget resolution will call for tax reform that is neutral from this point on - the Senate resolution will probably call for tax increases.

This doesn&#039;t get the Republicans a victory - it just gets you to a clear fight over the budget resolution. But only 51 votes are needed in the Senate. There&#039;s the opportunity to amend Obamacare, make some moves to changing Medicare and so on. It may not get 51 votes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> I don’t think we should be using the debt ceiling as a negotiation point, because I think Obama would love to play hardball on that, and I think it makes more sense for us to play hardball on the budget than the debt ceiling. I think requiring the Senate to pass a budget makes sense; </i></p>
<p>So they did exactly the right thing, according to you, and certainly something that is better strategy. Yes, they backed down, sort of, but it is not a caving in. They came up with this in their retreat.</p>
<p>The situation was the debt limit would be reached between about February 15 and March 1. </p>
<p>[Feb 15 was projected earlier as a possible drop dead date because it has $30 billion in interest payments due that day and  $6.8 billion in tax refunds (as well as $3.5 billion in salaries, $2.7 billion in military pay $2.3 billion in Medicaid and Medicare payments $1.5 billion in payments to military contractors) and only $9 billion or so coming in that day. </p>
<p>But because the tax filing season started later, and the accumulated tax refunds sent out may be less  than originally projected, you might be able to go past Feb 15. And the Treasury could just freeze all tax refunds till the debt limit is raised..]  </p>
<p>On March 1 comes the sequester, and the continuing resolution runs out on March 27. </p>
<p>The Republicans decided to make the debt ceiling last, by extending it a certain amount so that it would run out after three months, or somewhere around May 15 to 31. It would be an almost  clean debt limit extension. It would only have one little twist: If the Senate or the House didn&#8217;t pass a budget resolution, by April 15 &#8211; in the middle of this extension &#8211; their salaries would be withheld. This is common in many states. There are some claims this might be unconstitutional, as the 27th amendment (sent  to the states in 1789, ratified in 1992) says pay of members of Congress cannot be &#8220;varied&#8221; between elections, and that means both down and up, but the consensus is since they get their pay anyway &#8211; it&#8217;s just withheld &#8211; that would be all right &#8211; although I suppose budget or no budget they&#8217;d have to get paid by December 31. Or maybe not but then they&#8217;d be i a higher ax bracket in 2014.</p>
<p>Senator Schumer seems to indicate the Democrats have caved in on this &#8211; he says there will be a budget resolution by April 15, so the Republicans win the point.</p>
<p><i> but Democrats have to be honest about spending. </i></p>
<p>&#8230;and on taxes. The House budget resolution will call for tax reform that is neutral from this point on &#8211; the Senate resolution will probably call for tax increases.</p>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t get the Republicans a victory &#8211; it just gets you to a clear fight over the budget resolution. But only 51 votes are needed in the Senate. There&#8217;s the opportunity to amend Obamacare, make some moves to changing Medicare and so on. It may not get 51 votes.</p>
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		<title>By: DRJ</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/20/charts-the-problem-is-not-revenue-but-spending-and-chuck-schumer-and-president-obama-are-not-being-honest/comment-page-2/#comment-1150475</link>
		<dc:creator>DRJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2013 17:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72395#comment-1150475</guid>
		<description>If the consensus is we have a stupid electorate, I think it&#039;s only fair that we define who we&#039;re talking about.  I don&#039;t blame the voters in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/obama_vs_romney_final_results_map.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;24 red states&lt;/a&gt;. I blame the voters in the blue states.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the consensus is we have a stupid electorate, I think it&#8217;s only fair that we define who we&#8217;re talking about.  I don&#8217;t blame the voters in the <a href="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/obama_vs_romney_final_results_map.html" rel="nofollow">24 red states</a>. I blame the voters in the blue states.</p>
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		<title>By: PCD</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/20/charts-the-problem-is-not-revenue-but-spending-and-chuck-schumer-and-president-obama-are-not-being-honest/comment-page-2/#comment-1150413</link>
		<dc:creator>PCD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72395#comment-1150413</guid>
		<description>Stuff like Obama, Schumer, and Illinois&#039; Dick Dirtbag you just flush down the commocde.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stuff like Obama, Schumer, and Illinois&#8217; Dick Dirtbag you just flush down the commocde.</p>
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		<title>By: Patterico</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/20/charts-the-problem-is-not-revenue-but-spending-and-chuck-schumer-and-president-obama-are-not-being-honest/comment-page-2/#comment-1150192</link>
		<dc:creator>Patterico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72395#comment-1150192</guid>
		<description>Heh. Indeed, Republicans are SO awful, huh?

At least if you ask the scum in Big Media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh. Indeed, Republicans are SO awful, huh?</p>
<p>At least if you ask the scum in Big Media.</p>
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		<title>By: Smock Puppet, 10th Dan Snark Master and Labeler of the Obama-Naut</title>
		<link>http://patterico.com/2013/01/20/charts-the-problem-is-not-revenue-but-spending-and-chuck-schumer-and-president-obama-are-not-being-honest/comment-page-2/#comment-1150190</link>
		<dc:creator>Smock Puppet, 10th Dan Snark Master and Labeler of the Obama-Naut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2013 08:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patterico.com/?p=72395#comment-1150190</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;Senate Democrats, while bristling at the demand for a budget&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;b&gt;THOSE GOP *bastards* !!!&lt;/b&gt;

How &lt;i&gt;DARE&lt;/i&gt; they!?!?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>Senate Democrats, while bristling at the demand for a budget</i></p></blockquote>
<p><b>THOSE GOP *bastards* !!!</b></p>
<p>How <i>DARE</i> they!?!?</p>
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