Patterico's Pontifications

1/2/2013

President Hypocrite

Filed under: General — JD @ 1:06 pm

[Guest post by JD]

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our government’s reckless fiscal policies. . . . Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”

Senator Barack Obama, 2006

Now, he refuses to debate the debt ceiling, and is proposing new tax increases, and taking investments off the table in spending debate. They are just getting started.

– JD

133 Responses to “President Hypocrite”

  1. Racists

    Remember when Carney addressed this? Comedy gold.

    JD (5ed6bd)

  2. The only truthful thing he’s said, and the failure of leadership is manifestly his.

    He’s also taught everyone on the hill, Democrats and Republicans alike, that his word is worthless.

    SPQR (768505)

  3. I just want to be clear. Yesterday’s tax increase was his first step. He is going after more. Way more.

    JD (5ed6bd)

  4. I don’t really believe there is plan, other than a reactive “I want” going on. Clinton was smart. This fellow just has a weirdly idolizing press.

    Simon Jester (6a1d5a)

  5. And I do believe, very much, that ALL politicians should be accountable to their campaign statements. Not just ones who make me bilious. All of them.

    Simon Jester (6a1d5a)

  6. Simon – He told us last night what new taxes he is going after.

    JD (5ed6bd)

  7. Wow. What a terribly misinformed post.

    First of all, how is Obama being a hypocrite? In 2006, he thought it was shameful to debate whether to raise the debt ceiling. Now, he’s saying he WON’T debate raising the debt ceiling. That’s not inconsistent; just the opposite, in fact.

    Secondly — and I think here’s where you get confused — “raising the debt ceiling” isn’t the same thing as increasing the deficit. It merely establishes whether or not we will pay existing financial obligations already incurred, i.e., to pay DOWN the existing deficit. For some reason, some Republicans think that paying your debt obligations means the same thing as increasing your debt.

    Finally, Obama hasn’t proposed “new” tax increases. For example, the Bush era tax cuts were set to expire a few years ago. And some of them will. Call that what you want, but it’s not “new”. Neither is the increase in payroll taxes proposed by Congress a couple years ago.

    Kman (5576bf)

  8. In 2006, he thought it was shameful to debate whether to raise the debt ceiling. Now, he’s saying he WON’T debate raising the debt ceiling. That’s not inconsistent; just the opposite, in fact.

    Nice try, but you are wrong. Let’s forget for a moment that Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling. What he said that the time was:

    The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our government’s reckless fiscal policies

    That’s not at all supportive of raising the debt ceiling. In fact, he’s saying that the mere act of raising the debt ceiling indicates a failure of leadership, that it is a sign the US government has taken on too much debt already.

    Any other interpretation is just wishful thinking on your part.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  9. Sorry, Chuck, but that’s not true. In 2006, Obama was saying (as he says now) that we shouldn’t even be DEBATING whether or not to raise it — meaning, “OF COURSE we should raise it, and any suggestion to the contrary is insanity because it shows that we won’t pay our bills, and we’ll get a lower credit rating.”

    Kman (5576bf)

  10. Kman, your attempt at “clarification” was actually false.

    The debt ceiling is the Congressional authorization to borrow money. Raising the debt ceiling is authorizing an increase in total debt. Not paying off debt. Not lowering a deficit. Complete misrepresentation by you.

    And Obama has not only proposed more taxes, he’s gotten them passed. The PPACA legislation included several new taxes including new payroll taxes such as a a new 3.8% Medicare surtax that took effect yesterday.

    So your comment equals your existing record, 100% false.

    SPQR (768505)

  11. President Searching for Gravitas steps on his crank again and the lapdog media and acolytes such as Kman predictably will not call him out on his leadership failures.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  12. Kman, in 2006 Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling. As did all Senate Democrats in that vote – another brazenly false statement by you.

    SPQR (768505)

  13. In 2006, Obama was saying (as he says now) that we shouldn’t even be DEBATING whether or not to raise it — meaning, “OF COURSE we should raise it, and any suggestion to the contrary is insanity because it shows that we won’t pay our bills, and we’ll get a lower credit rating.”

    No, Kman. That’s not what he was saying. If it were, Obama would not have followed with:

    It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our government’s reckless fiscal policies

    The only way we’d depend on foreign companies to finance our fiscal policies is if we took on more debt. And the only way to take on more debt is to raise the debt limit.

    Finally, if Obama thought that raising the debt ceiling in 2006 was a sign of fiscal responsibility why did he vote against it?

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  14. C’mon, SPQR. Kman has to say that kind of thing (when he isn’t stalking poor Aaron). Because if he admitted that POTUS is a horrific hypocrite, then he would have to admit that he was rolled, twice, by a race-baiting prevaricating golfer.

    That is what this is really about: how voters feel about themselves, not about those nasty policies that require time, study, and intellectual honesty.

    Simon Jester (6a1d5a)

  15. Don’t worry, Chuck. Kman will shortly be playing faux-intellectual Twister again, to show that POTUS was for it, before he was against it, before he was for it again.

    Pretzel logic.

    Because otherwise, again, he would have to admit that he wasn’t quite so smart as he thought. And he will never, ever do that.

    Simon Jester (6a1d5a)

  16. Simon, the problem with Kman is that words mean things…and they don’t mean what he wants them to mean. So he’ll keep asserting his position without ever bothering to analyze what the words really mean.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  17. Isn’t that what POTUS is doing? I think it would be great to have people like him, or Kman, just state their principles and stick by them. Except they can’t.

    It’s “metapolitics.”

    Simon Jester (6a1d5a)

  18. Its simpler than that, Kman is a moron.

    SPQR (768505)

  19. Thinking about all the flexible truth reminds me of the bad old days of the Soviet Union. So I was looking through some old reports, and found this…interesting…quote:

    “The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.”

    Good old Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov apparently said that one. Somewhere, Santayana is smiling.

    Brrrr.

    Simon Jester (6a1d5a)

  20. SPQR, whenever I worry about eeevvviiiillll conspiracies, I remember the quote my brother drilled into my head when I was in school:


    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

    I think that the folks minding the store are the product of our great educational system.

    I mean, Joe Biden?

    Simon Jester (6a1d5a)

  21. he’s so immature it’s like dealing with a punk-ass

    happyfeet (2cf801)

  22. JD, I’m glad you brought this up – hold Obama to it. I’m afraid that his solution, in the form of more taxes, will not be comforting to you, but I don’t think we’re done yet either. Next comes phase II of the cliff dives and we’ll have to put something on the chopping block. Or, at least if Republicans are doing their jobs, we will.

    Tillman (51d7aa)

  23. My apologies if Tillman is different from P.Tillman. Not a great handle to pick, though, given P.Tillman’s history.

    Patterico (038ee9)

  24. No problem Patterico. But I’d like to stick with simply “Tillman,” which is my handle from years ago here. I’ve moved since then – I now live in Colorado.

    Tillman (51d7aa)

  25. Simon, its says something that a f’ing stroke patient like Biden – who can’t even feed himself unassisted – has to do things that Obama can’t do.

    SPQR (768505)

  26. Finally, Obama hasn’t proposed “new” tax increases.

    You didn’t listen to his speech last night, Kmart.

    And apparently don’t understand that Obama voted against increasing the debt ceiling because it was a failure of leadership. This was a new low for you.

    JD (78d90b)

  27. In 2006, Obama was saying (as he says now) that we shouldn’t even be DEBATING whether or not to raise it — meaning, “OF COURSE we should raise it, and any suggestion to the contrary is insanity because it shows that we won’t pay our bills, and we’ll get a lower credit rating.”

    And he demonstrated this by voting against it?!

    JD (78d90b)

  28. Oh my. Some serious poutrage at Obama ‘hypocrisy.’ And this just off an election where his opponent’s whole campaign was an exercise in hypocrisy. Guess if you’re up-in-arms about this but would have voted for Mitt, you could be a ….oh, never mind…

    tifosa (d8b422)

  29. tifosa, you can’t even cobble together the whole lie you are wanting to express, you just fart up that?

    SPQR (768505)

  30. I’m afraid that his solution, in the form of more taxes, will not be comforting to you,

    It is not, because we do not have a revenue problem. Now that he got to jack up the rich with increased rates plus ObamaCare taxes, that should satisfy him. But it won’t.

    L Next comes phase II of the cliff dives and we’ll have to put something on the chopping block.

    Hypothetical reductions in the rate of growth in the future. That is the most the Dems will agree to. And immediate military actual cuts.

    JD (78d90b)

  31. Tiffy has the vapors again ….

    Kmart – congrats on this epic display of asshattery. Not that we took you as an honest debater before, but this took the cake. Brazen, even for you.

    JD (78d90b)

  32. JD, I still think that since Democrats don’t want to make cuts (in general), all they have left is to raise taxes. Maybe it wasn’t the time for Obama to bring up raising them, or maybe he’s going to let Congress do that dirty work for him. I don’t know. But it’s not over yet. Also, because of the financial crises, he’s probably had to reconsider his stance on the debt ceiling. Let’s see, raise the debt ceiling, or have a full fledge depression….

    Tillman (51d7aa)

  33. Tillman, the assertion that failing to raise the debt ceiling would result in a full fledged depression is really without any real proof.

    SPQR (768505)

  34. Raising taxes cannot fix it. If you take all the money from the evil rich it cannot fund 1year of this government. It is simple math, therefore, beyond your reach, and Obama’s

    JD (78d90b)

  35. SPQR, I might be completely wrong, but I think that letting all the banks go and all of the businesses with them go down the rat hole would have put us in a depression. You probably disagree with that, but I will have to respectfully disagree with you there.

    Tillman (51d7aa)

  36. 34. Good point JD, and everyone is starting to realize that. All of us (in my age group) retiring soon is going to be a huge problem. But raising taxes would help it in the short term.

    Tillman (51d7aa)

  37. Tillman, nothing of the sort would happen if the US did not raise its debt ceiling. Hogwash.

    SPQR (768505)

  38. I still think that since Democrats don’t want to make cuts (in general), all they have left is to raise taxes

    Raising taxes won’t solve the problem, and all it takes is a little knowledge of history to understand this. For the past 60+ years, the total revenue collected by the federal government has always been around 18% of GDP. This is completely irrespective of the marginal rates. So, changing the tax rates will not change the amount of revenue.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  39. The debt ceiling is driven by banks? How about not increasing the debt?!?! Passing a budget, much less a balanced budget?!

    JD (78d90b)

  40. . But raising taxes would help it in the short term.

    You just did that yesterday.

    JD (78d90b)

  41. everyone is starting to realize that.

    Nonsense

    JD (78d90b)

  42. A good portion of the TARP funds went to foreign counterparts of AIG and Lehman, not American banks,
    then there were the auto companies that still underwent bankruptcy, and many of the actual ‘Trouble Assets’ were untouched, which makes the notion that there was any kind of a profit, sort of ridiculous,

    narciso (3fec35)

  43. 41. OK, for example read Kevin Drum or here is Fareed Zakaria: “In 1900, 1 in 25 Americans was over the age of 65. In 2030, just 18 years from now, 1 in 5 Americans will be over 65″ from his article named “Left can’t stick heads in the sand on entitlement reform.”

    Tillman (51d7aa)

  44. many of those making over 450K are landlords and all the democrats managed to do is raise the rents on their constituents

    EPWJ (5804d3)

  45. “A good portion of the TARP funds went to foreign counterparts of AIG and Lehman, not American banks,”

    narciso – TARP funds, except for advances to auto companies, have also largely been paid back. When the funds were originally disbursed they also did not get booked as additions to spending or deficit in some quasi-shady accounting gambit.

    The big culprit is Porkulus and fiscal 2009 spending approved after Bush left office which became the baseline for the new Democrat normal instead of the “one-time” stimulus it was labeled.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  46. Yes, people forget that the Federal spending between 1 Oct 08, and 20 Jan 09, was under the authority of a continuing resolution because Bush had threatened to veto the proposed budget as prepared by the Pelosi/Reid Congress. On 21 Jan 09, President Obama was presented with a FY-09 Budget that contained a lot of the spending that had been bottled-up by GWB (that notorious spendthrift) which he signed, plus the Porkulus Bill (Ditto), and we were off to the races.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  47. “Left can’t stick heads in the sand on entitlement reform.”
    Yet they continue to do so. The Dem caucus balked at chaining COLA to CPI.

    JD (78d90b)

  48. Looks like Kman has run like a scalded cat.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  49. No surprise, Bartowski, Kman is a serial drive by f’up.

    SPQR (768505)

  50. 22. JD, I’m glad you brought this up – hold Obama to it. I’m afraid that his solution, in the form of more taxes, will not be comforting to you…

    Comment by Tillman (51d7aa) — 1/2/2013 @ 2:48 pm

    No one should be comforted considering Obama’s “solution” is to pour an accelerant onto the problem.

    Steve57 (2073db)

  51. Would anyone here be comforted if your house was on fire, and the City of Obama Fire Dept. showed up with, instead of a pumper/tanker fire engine and a hook & ladder truck, a BP gasoline tanker and a crane with a wrecking ball?

    Because that’s how the Obama admin. is responding to the economic conflagration.

    Steve57 (2073db)

  52. I suppose this belongs here as well as anywhere else. The economic STD Obama infected the US with when he screwed people during the auto bailouts is spreading:

    Stockton Tries a Chrysler

    The municipal bankruptcy unfolding in Stockton, California is giving investors a bad case of deja vu. Just as the Obama Administration bailed out the United Auto Workers in Chrysler’s bankruptcy while hanging bondholders out to dry, the city of Stockton is subordinating its bond debt to worker pensions. But what’s really scary is that the Stockton case could be replayed in dozens of California cities.

    We used to have laws in this country against theft. That was back in the good ol’ days when “Banana Republic” was just the name of a clothing store.

    Steve57 (2073db)

  53. That was back in the good ol’ days when “Banana Republic” was just not the name of a clothing store.

    FTFY!

    askeptic (2bb434)

  54. Steve – they are just following Teh One’s example.

    JD (78d90b)

  55. Some day, Oh Happy Day, “inside the Beltway” will be a free-fire zone.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  56. Comment by Steve57 (2073db) — 1/2/2013 @ 5:19 pm

    It is frightening, Steve57, but I think the saving factor is that municipal bondholders will hopefully not put up with this sort of garbage, and will immediately take legal action to prevent this chicanery. Stockton will have to decide if it is worth spending their mostly-depleted resources to fight it out in court. Not to mention the fact that screwing their bondholders will probably make it really hard for them to attract investors from here on in.

    JVW (4826a9)

  57. If Stockton is successful in this gambit, the cost of municipal borrowing will skyrocket for every city in America, as buyers will be demanding all sorts of guarantees that will insure the return on their investment – and it won’t be cheap either.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  58. Is Kman really arguing that these aren’t “new” tax increases?

    What are they then, ‘old’ tax increases?

    Icy (e99d49)

  59. tifosa’s ad hom babble-spew is even less coherent than usual.

    Icy (e99d49)

  60. In an ironic juxtaposition of events, during 2013, both Groundhog Day and the State of the Union address will occur on the same day.
    One involves a meaningless ritual in which we look to an insignificant creature of little intelligence for prognostication.

    The other involves a groundhog.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  61. Tyranny is in the air. You can definitely expect more trouble from the Donks and their messiah. Question is, will Boehner and McConnell be up to it? Doesn’t look like it so far.

    Dirty Old Man (c726ea)

  62. Many of you, including JD, are simply confusing the payment of debt which has already been appropriated and occurred, with the budget process where spending/taxing decisions are made (which can increase the deficit).

    Yes, the “date limit/ceiling” relates to the borrowing of money to pay debts, but the debts are there whether we borrow money to pay for them or not. Some Republicans seem to think the solution is not to pay the debt (hence the likely fight on raising the debt ceiling), when the REAL solution is not to incur the debt in the first place through the budgetary process. Not paying the debt actually makes the situation worse, as it ruins the credit rating, causes the markets to fall, and adds to the deficit in the long run. Last time, just the debate about possibly not raising the debt ceiling caused the markets to plummet.

    Kman (5576bf)

  63. You are so effing dishonest, Kmart. Brazenly so.

    JD (78d90b)

  64. Many of you, including JD, are simply confusing the payment of debt which has already been appropriated and occurred, with the budget process where spending/taxing decisions are made (which can increase the deficit).

    Nonsense. This is a typical tactic of yours, trying to attribute ignorance to others, while demonstrating same yourself. We understand that you want to run around with the goal posts, rather than acknowledge Teh One’s breath-taking hypocrisy, and your full throated sophistry.

    Some Republicans seem to think the solution is not to pay the debt (hence the likely fight on raising the debt ceiling),

    There may be some, but nobody in a position to do anything about it. Unlike you and yours, who simply wish to elimi ate the ceiling altogether. Without attributing positions if “some” to us, you have no argument.

    Last time, just the debate about possibly not raising the debt ceiling caused the markets to plummet.

    Lie. There was far more to it than simply a debate about the debt ceiling. The ratings specifically laid out there reasons, which included failure to address deficits and debts in a meaningful manner.

    Your asshattery in this topic is remarkable.

    JD (78d90b)

  65. So, Kman, if paying the debt meant raising the debt ceiling, and Obama voted to not raise the debt ceiling, then Obama did not want to pay the debt. Is that correct? Because it is the only logical conclusion one can draw from your drivel.

    Chuck Bartowski (ad7249)

  66. Some Republicans seem to think the solution is not to pay the debt

    LOL, this guy never fails to be dishonest.

    So if Visa refuses to raise my credit card limit, they are actually telling me not to pay my high balance?

    That’s what Kman is claiming that means.

    The debt ceiling is already too high. Refusing to raise it further is not saying we shouldn’t pay our debt. It is saying we need to stop increasing our debt every year.

    Kman’s claim that the debt ceiling has to be increased in order to pay down the debt is irrational and assumes the deficit must be enormous all the time.

    Yes, servicing our current debt is incredibly expensive. The debt has skyrocketed since 2006, especially in the last four – five years. The long term solution is not to ignore this problem and avoid any budget whatsoever and demand increased debt limits forever. That plan has been the democrat way for the last few years, and it is an irresponsible short term strategy that was politically expedient.

    From anyone else it would be incredible that talking about responsible debt policy would be blamed for upsetting ‘the markets’.

    Of course there will be wailing if the debt spigot is closed. There are an awful lot of parties feeding at the trough right now, even on Wall Street.

    Dustin (73fead)

  67. If our debt is so bad that we can’t pay the interest without borrowing more money, then we had better stop with the entitlement spending already.

    Dustin (73fead)

  68. Kman seems to equate taking on new debt with taking on more debt. It is possible to take on new debt without raising the debt ceiling: older debt must be paid while issuing new debt.

    The markets were reacting to the uncertainty because with the government adding $1.6T in debt every year, either the debt ceiling had to be raised or the budget brought into balance and neither of those things were happening. It wasn’t all because of the debt ceiling, as Kman alleges.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  69. “Some Republicans seem to think the solution is not to pay the debt (hence the likely fight on raising the debt ceiling), when the REAL solution is not to incur the debt in the first place through the budgetary process.”

    Kman – Really? Can you provide some quotes of Republicans suggesting the U.S. default on its debt?

    You seem to keep ignoring two words of Obama’s 2006 quote “leadership failure.” Increasing the debt ceiling provides for future borrowing capacity, not existing borrowing capacity, and hence continued deficit spending. Since Obama came into office promising a New Era of Fiscal Responsibility, it seems to be yet another of his promises with an expiration date which liberals have conveniently forgotten.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  70. Now, he refuses to debate the debt ceiling, and is proposing new tax increases,

    He reminds me of a couple of liberals I know personally, who a few years ago, when Bush was president, kept mouthing off about how horrible all the deficit spending and debt was. But since late 2008, early 2009, nary a peep from them.

    In the immortal words of Obama’s former adviser and spiritual guru: “Goddamn America! Your chickens are coming home to roost.”

    Mark (b8edce)

  71. Refusing to raise it further is not saying we shouldn’t pay our debt. It is saying we need to stop increasing our debt every year.

    We CAN’T pay the debt unless the ceiling is raised. So not only is refusing to raise the ceiling saying we shouldn’t pay our debt, it is actively preventing the payment of our debt.

    A person can make the argument that we need to stop increasing the debt every year (which everyone should agree) without actively trying to destroy the full faith and credit of the United States.

    Kman (5576bf)

  72. K-Pax: Some Republicans seem to think the solution is not to pay the debt

    – Name one.

    Icy (f1nk31m@n) (83283c)

  73. It still amazes me that he can say “roads and bridges” and “green jobs” with a straight face. I guess it helps when the media sycophants all let him get away with it.

    Patricia (be0117)

  74. Kmart again presents a false choice. We can pay our debts without raising the ceiling one penny. We just have to prioritize payments. Some things on leftist wish lists might not get paid.

    Refusing to raise it further is not saying we shouldn’t pay our debt. It is saying we need to stop increasing our debt every year.

    A person can make the argument that we need to stop increasing the debt every year (which everyone should agree)

    I call BS on this. Leftists like to say this, but their actions show that they do not mean it.

    JD (5ed6bd)

  75. We CAN’T pay the debt unless the ceiling is raised. So not only is refusing to raise the ceiling saying we shouldn’t pay our debt, it is actively preventing the payment of our debt.

    So, in 2006, Obama was actively preventing payment of our debt, right?

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  76. Kman, the only person confused was you. You have no clue what you are talking about.

    SPQR (768505)

  77. We can pay our debts without raising the ceiling one penny. We just have to prioritize payments.

    Prioritizing payments won’t prevent default on those which aren’t deemed to be high priority. You’re still going to end up with non-payment of some legal obligations, and that will destroy the credit rating of the U.S.

    Kman (5576bf)

  78. BTW, there is a difference between saying “We’re never going to raise the debt ceiling” and saying “We’re not going to raise the debt ceiling until we have a solid plan to reduce the debt level”. Kman seems to ignore that.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  79. Kman, please answer the question: in 2006, did Obama vote to prevent payment of our debt?

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  80. We CAN’T pay the debt unless the ceiling is raised.

    – Look for Kman’s new book “Spend Your Way Into Solvency” at a cut-out bin near you.

    Icy (f1nk31m@n) (83283c)

  81. Kman, you continue to make stuff up. All to cover up that you are clueless. And your reference earlier to using the budgetary process was just comical, given that the Democrats have destroyed the budgetary process by refusing to pass a budget for four years.

    The Kman only reinforces his bad faith with stupid arguments that show he has paid no attention to events.

    SPQR (768505)

  82. 76. In 2006, Obama was posturing. He knew the debt ceiling would be raised, in spite of his vote against it.

    His claim of “reckless fiscal policies” most likely refers to the Bush tax cuts. At that time it was typical of some Democrats to blame the size of the deficits on tax cuts and the Iraq war.

    Now, he’s going to dare the Republicans not to raise the debt limit. He may engage in some negotiations anyway, because he has to because of the continuing resolution and the sequester.

    Sammy Finkelman (60fff5)

  83. SPQR – heaven forbid the pass a budget.

    JD (5ed6bd)

  84. BTW, there is a difference between saying “We’re never going to raise the debt ceiling” and saying “We’re not going to raise the debt ceiling until we have a solid plan to reduce the debt level”. Kman seems to ignore that.

    Amen

    JD (5ed6bd)

  85. I think Obama would maybe delay payments to government workers or federal benefit checks, but probably not debt due. It can be rolled over.

    He might delay Social Security checks if he thinks people will blame the Republicans.

    Sammy Finkelman (60fff5)

  86. 1345 days since the Senate passed a budget, Kmart.

    JD (5ed6bd)

  87. BTW, there is a difference between saying “We’re never going to raise the debt ceiling” and saying “We’re not going to raise the debt ceiling until we have a solid plan to reduce the debt level”.

    Threatening to create a self-inflicted financial crisis is the best way to bring the deficit under control? Really?

    Kman (5576bf)

  88. And Obama will say: “We have to raise the debt ceiling, no ands, ifs or buts, and this should never become a subject of negotiation.”

    Sammy Finkelman (60fff5)

  89. We already have a self inflicted financial crisis. Ignoring that reality is par for the course with you. And making shlt up.

    Personally, I liked how Obama supported raising the debt limit without debate by opposing it and voting against it.

    JD (5ed6bd)

  90. It’s time to pass my constitutional amendment, or something like it. Tie every expenditure to a source, which can include borrowing, and make no other budget rules. The problem is, how can I shorten the proposal?

    Sammy Finkelman (60fff5)

  91. Threatening to create a self-inflicted financial crisis is the best way to bring the deficit under control? Really?

    Yes. It’s called “compromise”: giving something the other party wants in exchange for something you want. I thought you were smart enough to understand that, please forgive me for the oversight.

    Now, answer the question: in 2006, did Obama vote to actively prevent the US from paying its debt?

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  92. “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our government’s reckless fiscal policies. . . . Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”

    Senator Barack Obama, 2006

    This signifies his support for increasing the debt limit. By voting against it.

    JD (5ed6bd)

  93. Kman whines about the full faith and credit of the United States while the Democrats refuse to pass a budget.

    Good thing irony poisoning isn’t fatal.

    SPQR (768505)

  94. Rating agencies only rate debt issued to investors, not payrolls or pensions or debt to suppliers.

    Sammy Finkelman (60fff5)

  95. The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure.

    Kman is using a rhetorical trick to claim that this sentence means that the mere possibility of not raising the debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. But he’s wrong (as usual).

    In the full context of Obama’s comments, it is clear that he meant that the very fact that the US has incurred so much debt that the limit must be raised is a sign of leadership failure.

    Because Kman ignores the obvious meaning of Obama’s comment in favor of his own contrived meaning, he continues to argue that Republicans are bad, horrible, no-good people for not raising the debt limit.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  96. Threatening to create a self-inflicted financial crisis is the best way to bring the deficit under control? Really?

    Kman, in your opinion, what is the best way to bring the deficit under control?

    Patterico (038ee9)

  97. Kman, in your opinion, what is the best way to bring the deficit under control?

    We should spend out way out of bankruptcy. And tax the actual taxpayers even more.

    JD (5ed6bd)

  98. Kman, in your opinion, what is the best way to bring the deficit under control?

    I’m in the “all of the above” camp. Increase revenue through significant tax hikes (particularly on those who did just fine during this recession), the closing of tax loopholes, ending corporate welfare, etc…. accompanied by significant spending cuts, which might include entitlement reform (Medicare, Medicaid, but not SS) as a last resort. But I hesitate to do anythng too strongly until the economy is back full steam.

    Kman (5576bf)

  99. Kman, please answer my question: in 2006, did Obama vote to actively prevent the US from paying its debt?

    I’ve asked you this many times, and now I believe you are deliberately ducking it.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  100. which might include entitlement reform (Medicare, Medicaid, but not SS) as a last resort.

    How would you balance the budget without entitlement reform?

    Patterico (2cd6b3)

  101. I’m in the “all of the above” camp. Increase revenue through significant tax hikes (particularly on those who did just fine during this recession)

    You just got that. Next?

    . accompanied by significant spending cuts, which might include entitlement reform (Medicare, Medicaid, but not SS) as a last resort. But I hesitate to do anythng too strongly until the economy is back full steam

    Might? We might address the primary drivers of the deficits? Might?! But not SS, because It hasn’t imploded. Yet.

    JD (5ed6bd)

  102. Kman, please answer my question: in 2006, did Obama vote to actively prevent the US from paying its debt?

    He won’t answer, because it contradicts Teh Narrative he is trying to push.

    JD (5ed6bd)

  103. I’d like to get some rough numbers, Kman.

    Patterico (2cd6b3)

  104. Patterico – he wants more taxes than they got in the last 72 hours. Now legal deductions are evil loopholes. And maybe they will consider some entitlement reform at some point in the future, but not until they have revenues where they want them.

    JD (5ed6bd)

  105. It’s all a rigged game, they yell squirrel, while they do this;

    http://moonbattery.com/?p=23403

    narciso (3fec35)

  106. How would you balance the budget without entitlement reform?

    I don’t know that it can be done. Which is why I didn’t take them off the table.

    The ACA should lower future health care costs — costs which are driving a lot of the deficit hysteria. Many deficit projections don’t factor the cost-saving effects of the ACA, so we might be able to get by without having to go through entitlement reform. But whether the ACA is successful remains an open question.

    Kman (5576bf)

  107. Kman continues to duck questions.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  108. 99. …But I hesitate to do anythng too strongly until the economy is back full steam.

    Comment by Kman (5576bf) — 1/3/2013 @ 9:40 am

    Except just willy nilly, irresponsibly raise the debt ceiling and add to the debt which is crushing the economy and preventing it from ever getting back up to full steam.

    When you read the NSRSOs’ methodology and assumptions when rating sovereign debt it is precisely your prescription that forces them to lower this country’s credit rating. It is precisely because this country is doing everything it can to avoid making the “hard choices” (in scare quotes because they’re “hard choices” only to those who have a vested interest in expanding government dependency) required to impose fiscal discipline on the spending side while increasing the borrowing limit so that can proceed apace that makes this country a worse and worse risk.

    Genius, Kmart! This is the new normal’s effin’ full steam, thanks to thinking like yours.

    Steve57 (2073db)

  109. By he way, it isn’t surprising that someone who swallows the lie that there would be some sort of crisis if the GOP refused to raise the debt limit also, when pressed, reveals there is nothing behind their thinking at all.

    Just more meaningless bumper-sticker slogans.

    Steve57 (2073db)

  110. Except just willy nilly, irresponsibly raise the debt ceiling and add to the debt which is crushing the economy and preventing it from ever getting back up to full steam.

    Aaaaand once again, raising the debt ceiling does not add to the debt.

    Kman (5576bf)

  111. Answer my question, Kman. Stop ducking it.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  112. 111. …raising the debt ceiling does not add to the debt.

    Comment by Kman (5576bf) — 1/3/2013 @ 10:16 am

    Sheer, unadulterated idiocy.

    Steve57 (2073db)

  113. The ACA should lower future health care costs

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

    JD (5ed6bd)

  114. Aaaaand once again, raising the debt ceiling does not add to the debt.

    Steve did not claim it did. There was that little word AND in there. Running $1,500,000,000,000+ deficits year after year after year AND simply raising the debt limit every time will never solve anything.

    JD (5ed6bd)

  115. Comment by Kman (5576bf) — 1/3/2013 @ 10:01 am

    The ACA should lower future health care costs —

    Not in the real world, even with the unrepealable “death panels”

    Sammy Finkelman (60fff5)

  116. What Democrats call vouchercare could reduce medical costs, but not by too much, because there’s still way too much third party payments.

    Sammy Finkelman (60fff5)

  117. If Kmart were making these comments as Secretary of the Treasury, S&P would downgrade this country to BB+ in heartbeat.

    Steve57 (2073db)

  118. BB+ would be a best case scenario.

    Steve57 (2073db)

  119. Isn’t it about time for Kman to run like a scalded cat again?

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  120. Chuck – Ms Doubtfire is obviously embarrassed by the way it carried on yesterday. Be nice.

    JD (5ed6bd)

  121. Comment by JD (5ed6bd) — 1/3/2013 @ 8:46 am

    We can pay our debts without raising the ceiling one penny. We just have to prioritize payments. Some things on leftist wish lists might not get paid.

    Is that what Obama would choose not to pay? He’d try to pressure Congress. Stoppage of tax refunds over $1,000 maybe. Delayed payment to military contractors, at first only of a week or two, then more. Paying only the first $1,500 of Social Security benefits. Delayed or halted payments to state governments.

    Sammy Finkelman (60fff5)

  122. 54. Steve – they are just following Teh One’s example.

    Comment by JD (78d90b) — 1/2/2013 @ 5:47 pm

    I know, JD. Therein lies the hypocrisy. What example are cities like Stockton following? The example that Obama set in the auto bailouts. Screw over the secured creditors, steal their interest, call them “terrorists” as his administration did in the Chrysler case when they tried to assert their rights under US bankruptcy law, to bail out his union buddies.

    Obama’s newfound commitment to paying this country’s debt to the people who loaned it money is laughably, ridiculously hypocritical in that light.

    In fact, when you look at his administration’s policies in the aggregate, it is quite obvious and becoming more obvious every day this administration has no intention of ever paying back the debt it is accruing.

    Hence the credit rating downgrades.

    Steve57 (2073db)

  123. I don’t know that it can be done. Which is why I didn’t take them off the table.

    The ACA should lower future health care costs — costs which are driving a lot of the deficit hysteria. Many deficit projections don’t factor the cost-saving effects of the ACA, so we might be able to get by without having to go through entitlement reform. But whether the ACA is successful remains an open question.

    Why do you call concern over a trillion dollar a year deficit “hysteria”?

    How is more government involvement and less of a free market in health care going to drive down costs? Can you point to another area where government involvement in a market drove down costs?

    Patterico (7d7f86)

  124. Comment by Steve57 (2073db) — 1/3/2013 @ 10:40 am

    and becoming more obvious every day this administration has no intention of ever paying back the debt it is accruing.

    I think Andrew Jackson was the last President who wanted to do that.

    Hence the credit rating downgrades.

    Nobody expects the debt to be paid back, the credit rating agencies among them. Just the interest to be maintained, and the debt to be rolled over when due..

    Sammy Finkelman (60fff5)

  125. “Yes, the “date limit/ceiling” relates to the borrowing of money to pay debts, but the debts are there whether we borrow money to pay for them or not.”

    “We CAN’T pay the debt unless the ceiling is raised. So not only is refusing to raise the ceiling saying we shouldn’t pay our debt, it is actively preventing the payment of our debt.

    A person can make the argument that we need to stop increasing the debt every year (which everyone should agree) without actively trying to destroy the full faith and credit of the United States.”

    “Aaaaand once again, raising the debt ceiling does not add to the debt.”

    Once again I sense some inconsistencies among the above statement of Kman. He attempts some sleight of hand in his comments between the use of the word debt as it is commonly understood and legal obligations in his comments. He doesn’t seem to understand the self-evident questions that if increasing the DEBT ceiling is not intended to provide from increases in DEBT levels, then why do we need to keep increasing it?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  126. for not from

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  127. Kman hasn’t answered the repeated request he back up his assertion that Republicans are proposing not paying the national debt.

    I think he knows he lied and I think he did so in order to get a lot of reactions.

    Dustin (73fead)

  128. The cost savings of the ACA are utter fantasies. The ACA was only projected to be less than a trillion dollars additional cost to the Fed budget by trickery. There are no “cost savings” and won’t be.

    SPQR (444eb8)

  129. This time, Kman ran away so fast he left a trail of smoldering skid marks.

    Kman, your intellectual dishonesty is the stuff of legends!

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  130. Comment by Steve57 (2073db) — 1/3/2013 @ 10:40 am

    it is quite obvious and becoming more obvious every day this administration has no intention of ever paying back the debt it is accruing.

    Hence the credit rating downgrades.

    That would mean it was an issue of willingness to pay, not ability.

    But I am not sure anybody knows why they are talking abut downgrades.

    Sammy Finkelman (60fff5)

  131. No, Sammy, it’s not that they’re unwilling to pay. They’re accruing debt that no one can possibly pay. Anyone with the intention to pay back their creditors would not continue to add debt as ridiculously irresponsibly as this administration demands we do.

    And, yes, we know why “they” are talking credit downgrades. If, that is, they are the NRSROs. They spell it out quite clearly. They need to see some sort of serious attempt to get this out-of-control debt under some sort of control.

    So far, far too many people are refusing to acknowledge that spending and the debt it produces are even a serious problem. To that extent, they say, the pathetic wrangling over the debt ceiling highlights the fact that no one is willing to tackle the underlying structural problems.

    Hence the dishonesty of people like the “fact checkers” who say the downgrade was due to GOP brinkmanship over the debt ceiling. That’s not what the NRSROs ever said; none of them. It’s the underlying problem that’s the driving factor when assessing the credit worthiness of the US and that underlying problem is the trajectory of US debt.

    Steve57 (2073db)

  132. Speaking of President Hypocrite, remember that Obama wasn’t going to use signing statements? Yeah, like all his promises ….

    SPQR (768505)


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