Patterico's Pontifications

12/21/2012

NBC News: Defiant NRA Is Defiant

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 10:08 am

NBC News just can’t understand how someone can be so defiantly defiant when the need for gun control has never been more obvious.

Speaking as objective journalists, that is:

National Rifle Association CEO Wayne LaPierre defiantly blamed violent video games and movies, the media, gun-free zones in schools and other factors during the organization’s first public statement following the elementary school shooting in Newtown, Conn. last week.

“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” he said, asking Congress to immediately appropriate the money to put a police officer in every single school in the country.

The NRA executive’s statement was nothing short of defiant in the face of mounting discussion of the need for tighter restrictions on guns — including renewing a ban on assault weapons — in the wake of last week’s shooting.

Given that these mass shootings so often happen in “gun free zones,” where shooters know they are less likely to encounter armed resistance, why do leftists so defiantly support the same gun-free zones?

I find their defiance puzzling. Journalistically speaking.

Consider this an open thread. It’s annoying that we have to have this discussion, but apparently we do. The “government must solve everything by doing the stupid thing that sounds good” crowd demands it.

And they are obviously the ones in charge these days…

204 Responses to “NBC News: Defiant NRA Is Defiant”

  1. DEFIANCE!

    Patterico (998955)

  2. And they are defiant in their use of the First Amendment to make money off of the corpses of children.

    Defiant!

    SPQR (768505)

  3. My personal discussion that I bring up with people on this topic, in order to derail everything I’ve heard before many times, goes like this:

    Do you have an iPhone? Good.

    Right now, for seven thousand dollars, you can buy yourself a ‘CNC’ cutting machine, which stands for ‘Computer Numerical Control’. You can download gun plans from the internet, hand that machine a block of steel, and it will grip it and turn it in all three dimensions and cut out the gun parts in the plan you downloaded.

    For seven thousand dollars you get a ‘light duty’ machine. It will be able to make five to ten guns a week. You will still have to go to the hardware store for screws and springs. Other than that, you snap together the parts and you got yourself a gun. Anyone who’s even a little handy can do it.

    That’s right now. Seven thousand dollars. It uses a computer as powerful as your iPhone.

    Have you heard about the ‘three-D printers’? Where they extrude stuff and can make anything of any shape? That’s what’s coming next. People are already experimenting with gun parts on three-D printers and trying to make them strong enough.

    Within the next five to ten years, you will be able to download a gun on your iPhone and have your home printer print it up. You won’t even have to be handy. If you can snap together Legos you’ll be able to put together your home-printed gun.

    Wake up. It’s the twenty-first century. You’re talking about a machine that’s over a hundred years old. You’re trying to ban the lever, or the pulley. Come with me into the future. It’s nice here.

    luagha (5cbe06)

  4. Way to GO!!! Let’s actually STATE THE FACTS.

    Teachers should be able to carry a gun to school. It’s the possiblity of the gun that will deter most people.

    The shooter in the Newtown massacre shot himself ONLY after being confronted with a gun.

    Charlotte (4c5f92)

  5. File under “unintended consequences”.

    TANSTAAFL (eabe1c)

  6. Why do you want more kids to die in mass murders?

    JD (4cf319)

  7. Suppose for a second that, yes, every gun in America was vaporized. Then think about this: the Soviet bloc, and many other countries, have manufactured between 75 and 100 million AK-47s, and variants of the basic AK design. These are the full on automatic assault rifles that are the reactionary left’s most horrid nightmare, not the semi-autos that they pee in their pants about. My estimate is that about 5 milliseconds after all those American guns disappeared, someone would be setting up a pipeline from the Ukraine or Moldova or wherever to bring them to the States.

    TANSTAAFL (eabe1c)

  8. Just a couple of months ago, the lefties insisted that Jihadists were launching rockets at our Consulate in Benghazi on account of watching a movie clip on YouTube that animated them.

    Now the lefties say nobody gets animated by movies or video games.

    It is just like when the lefties are always demanding that the government should stay out of a woman’s health care decision except for when…they’re advocating the government getting involved in everyone’s health care.

    Or when the lefties say that any opposition to a black politician’s policies is based in racism, such as in the case of Barack Obama and Susan Rice. But if you oppose Herman Cain, Allen West, or Tim Scott, it is not racism.

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  9. Here’s an interesting chart from a few months ago, detailing the body counts of an average episode of various TV series.

    As expected, Spartacus leads the list, followed by Game of Thrones and Nikita. ANd, as I’ve pointedout before, even a show way down the list like Hawaii Five-0, at two deaths per episode, has triple the number of murders per year on the show than the actual entire state of Hawaii does.

    It’s not just Tarantino. We literally have a culture of violence.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  10. “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” he said, asking Congress to immediately appropriate the money to put a police officer in every single school in the country.

    I agree that the immediate rush to blame the NRA was unseemly, if predictable, but I am also quite tired of the whole idea that we need some kind of federal spending to combat this evil. Mr. LaPierre needs to reflect on the idea that we are the brokest nation in the history of broke nations (as Mark Steyn likes to put it), so perhaps Mr. LaPierre should either suggest a tax on guns and ammo that will pay for the extra police presence at schools, or he should leave this to states, counties, and municipalities, or he should keep his damn mouth shut. But don’t go demanding that the Feds spend money that we don’t have.

    JVW (08df28)

  11. The press and politicians deal in symbols, not substance. If they hate the NRA as a symbol of their frustration, as a life NRA member, it’s OK with me.

    Mike K (5552a4)

  12. For over 20-years the media/academe/pols have been telling us what the solution is to mass shootings.
    We have dutifully followed that advice (hectoring) and have what to show for it:
    More shootings.
    It is truly a sign of some sickness that the “smartest” among us cannot recognize the that the solutions they advance are less-than-effective.

    This, I think, says it all (or at least most of it):
    http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/an-opinion-on-gun-control/

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  13. who is the NRA defying and who put them ones in charge?

    just for my records

    happyfeet (b88b3f)

  14. but yeah that was stupid, the part where the NRA blamed video games

    it muddled their defiant message

    happyfeet (b88b3f)

  15. You know, the ex-Mrs. Gore, went on a crusade in the 80′s against violence in music/music videos, and got the industry to actually respond.
    I have always found it very hypocritical of the entertainment industry to tell us that films, videos, music has no effect on peoples behavior at the same time that they are putting ads on TV, and in printed media, trying to convince us to see/read/listen to their product.
    Either media can convince, or it can’t; but why spend all of that money in advertising if it is just flushing money down a crap-hole?
    That is the question that the MSM (especially that part of it that is best described as Progressive Democrat Leftist Activists with Bylines) does not wish to address!

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  16. I recently had the opportunity to stupify the liberals in a college class. The university president sent out a letter to all instructors and students in opposition to a proposed bill in our legislature that would allow CCW permit holders to carry guns on college camupuses. Our instructor read the letter to us and then said in a horrified voice “can you imagine the violence that a person could do if they could bring a gun on campus?” I replied, “If they are willing to commit violence against their fellow students, why do you think a law banning them from carrying a gun on campus will stop them?” It was really sad to see that that was a thought that had never occured to them. Hopefully there will be some carryover and they will view these situation differently….namely that they will recognize that humans commit violent acts, not inanimate objects.

    PRM (54b77f)

  17. violent movies are cool

    happyfeet (b88b3f)

  18. Bloomberg: No One Has ‘Defended the Second Amendment as Much as I Have’

    No. Really.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  19. Bloomy is another one who needs to be committed.
    He is suffering from severe delusions.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  20. To say the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a gun is a losing mentality. It’s like what Don Juan Mateus told Carlos Castaneda when asked, what would you do if someone pulled a gun on you? He said I wouldn’t be there in the first place.

    The reason this argument is so circular is because the gun nuts aren’t looking at this practically. Moneyball and Freakonomics both teach us things aren’t always what they seem if you look at raw numbers and the stats are clear.

    The more guns that are out there, the more suicides, murders and accidents there are. Yes, it makes sense that armed citizens are more likely to intercede in a crime, but those rare positive occurrences are more than wiped out by the negative by a magnitude of 100. Taking 2009 figures, it was 300 interventions vs. 30,000 suicides, mishaps and ‘gone postal’ tragedies.

    It’s nice to see when an armed gunman is stopped by a heroic citizen super-shot with unflinching poise, tons of training, a clear view and just didn’t happen to be in the line of fire. But if we cling to this despite 99 incidences of a dad blowing off his son’s mouth by mistake, or a firearms instructor blowing a hole through his sac on camera, or an average joe coming home early to find the pool guy has half a nut hanging out of his wife…

    So states need to weigh these facts out. If you live in rural Nebraska where the nearest first responder is half hour away, maybe it’s good to be armed. The Constitution allowed this provided the permitee is part of a well regulated militia, but the folks crying for their 2A rights always seem to forget to join the local brigade…

    Mahalia Cab (e1ef9b)

  21. Mr skeptic Hollywood will just drive production of violent movies to Canada like their piggy piggy unions did with tv

    happyfeet (b88b3f)

  22. Ms. Cab, your argument have all been debunked in more scientific venues than this one.

    Please stop making the perfect the enemy of the good.
    We can never live in a perfect world, because we live in a world filled with Homo Sapiens, who – as we all know – are far from perfect, and can never attain such.
    So, if you need to be in a completely protected environment, I would suggest that you find a comfortable “sanitarium” somewhere, a take a lease on one of their “rubber-rooms”. There, you can live out your life in complete comfort and safety – well, as safe as anyone can be who is institutionalized.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  23. feets, stop giving them your money.
    Then they will change.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  24. Why aren’t we calling this what it is: domestic terrorism?
    Is it because it’s not done for the same effect as other forms of terrorism? The end result is the same.

    Tillman (51d7aa)

  25. I give them very little monies really

    far below the mean

    happyfeet (b88b3f)

  26. Mr Tillman you can go ahead and call it domestic terrorism you should do so loudly at work and in the checkout line at ralph’s then it will catch on

    happyfeet (b88b3f)

  27. 22. The other night, house Lib, the Mrs. asked whether she should get a gun. Without passing out I told her I’d considered it, how much it would cost, where she can go, and what to look for, like a subcompact Glock with extra clips.

    She thought for a while and said “Work won’t allow her to have it in her car on their premises”.

    I can wait.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  28. Why do you want more kids to die in mass murders?

    That way they live longer than if they’d been aborted.

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  29. It’s not just Tarantino. We literally have a culture of violence.

    You know why so much entertainment centers around violence? Because it’s novel, it’s unusual. It’s easy to communicate, easy to understand. Everyone can understand what the threat is, and it’s rarely controversial to bring a murderer to justice.

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  30. Well, “Mahalia Cab”, I think you’re abusing your 1st Amendment rights. The Founders had no idea that a totalitarian thug like yourself would use an international electronic network to spread bile across the world, so clearly you must be silenced.

    I bet you’re not even a professional journalist.

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  31. Better defiant, than being a jellyfish.

    Kevin P. (a6d18e)

  32. The question is: is the whole country going to act like it came down with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome?

    Many times with PSTD a person takes precautions against extremely rare eventualities.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  33. If you can “print” a gun or gun parts and a race car, as has been done, can you also print a helicopter a submarine or a jet?

    How about printing a house?

    Or is there something wrong with this story

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  34. We can never live in a perfect world, because we live in a world filled with Homo Sapiens

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that….

    Pious Agnostic (20c167)

  35. I remember when lefties screeched we were over-reacting to deliberate, planned, mass murder by foreign nationals funded by foreign agents. But now, a handful of mentally imbalanced individuals (let to roam the streets by the left, don’t forget) commit horrendous crimes and the left is screeching to punish law-abiding US citizens who have committed no crimes.

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  36. I listened to Mr. NRO CEO, and he was extremely convincing, especially when talking about a video game having to do with killing kids in kindergarten.

    mg (31009b)

  37. Sammy, that you don’t understand 3D printing technology does not mean there is anything wrong with the story. But the contortions you will go through should be fascinating ….

    SPQR (c5cd23)

  38. OT: Can anyone ‘splain to an economic dilettante how milk prices will spike if Federal price supports lapse?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  39. especially when talking about a video game having to do with killing kids in kindergarten

    How DARE he sound like Tipper Gore!

    You weren’t really listening to him, were you? Just trying to find a reason to get all raged up so you can let your hate and bigotry fly, right?

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  40. “Whoever controls the media, the images, controls the culture.” – Allen Ginsburg
    NRA’s the problem, liberals? Time to step up to ownership.

    Colonel Haiku (23b0bb)

  41. You’re just mad your research department couldn’t find “Kindergarten Killer” for the last 10 years.

    AmishParadise (e45887)

  42. 41- I listened to Mr NRO CEO on the radio.
    All of it. I happen to agree, you don’t.
    So, shoot me. Besides being white,old and arthritic, I don’t need a reason to create hate.

    mg (31009b)

  43. You can print larger things. They do have warehouse sized CNC machines. It’s a matter or tolerances and size and number of parts and the material that they are being made from.

    It’s not cost effective to make yourself a jet or a helicopter with them. Or a house. Although straw-bale building is pretty close.

    luagha (5cbe06)

  44. Progressives hate defiance. When the Jews resisted the gas chamber, their defiance angered the ideologically pure progressives. Black Panthers in the inner city who armed themselves were resistant. Alabama blacks who stood their ground with their shotguns, telling the progressive KKK to leave their family alone, resisted. They wouldn’t hand over their guns and allow the police chief and county Kleagle to “protect” the family.

    Guns jeopardize the progressive redistributionist program. When the borrowed money runs out, a progressive needs to be able to seize from those who produce to give to those parasites whose votes are bought. Guns complicate things.

    Multitude (b0bb5a)

  45. “Black Panthers in the inner city who armed themselves were resistant”

    And this brought Reagan’s gun control in CA. But…The progressive KKK…? You should get a job writing speeches for the NRA.

    AmishParadise (e45887)

  46. NRA membership rolls are rising rapidly at a record-setting pace, increasing by 8,000 new NRA members per day since the Sandy Hook elementary school shooting. According to Fox News, both the number of individual contributions to the NRA and their average amount have risen significantly in the period following the massacre in Newtown, Connecticut. Unlike many who are using the school shooting as a political club, the National Rifle Association (NRA) has been staying quiet out of respect for the Newtown victims.

    Neo (d1c681)

  47. “AmishParadise”, besides trashing a good Weird Al piece, reminds me of a banned troll …

    SPQR (c5cd23)

  48. Remember that one shooting a while back in New York, in which something like 10 people were shot? One was the gunman, and the other nine were bystanders, hit by police trying to take down the gunman. So no, police in schools would not be a panacea.

    I have no solution to offer. If it were an easy issue, smarter and better people than me would have figured it out long ago.

    The Sanity Inspector (0472b5)

  49. I’m certain Old Glory offers coverage…

    http://www.hulu.com/saturday-night-live

    Colonel Haiku (baccfe)

  50. Why aren’t we calling this what it is: domestic terrorism?

    Are you elfin serious?

    JD (4cf319)

  51. make that… http://www.hulu.com/watch/2340

    Colonel Haiku (baccfe)

  52. Comment by AmishParadise (e45887) — 12/21/2012 @ 1:47 pm

    That was passed by a Democrat controlled legislature, with IIRC veto proof majorities.

    But, Reagan also signed the first State measure legalizing abortion (well before Roe), and consensual sodomy; so he wasn’t as rock-ribbed conservative as you may think he was.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  53. Comment by The Sanity Inspector (0472b5) — 12/21/2012 @ 2:28 pm

    Most civilian practitioners of the Art of the Pistolero, shoot much better than the NYPD, which has a terrible marksmanship record.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  54. given how incompetent America has become in all of her endeavors, doing nothing might be by far the wisest course

    happyfeet (ae4c7f)

  55. Again, I keep coming back to the alcohol argument. That it irritates stalker/alphabetists like Kman is a feature, not a bug.

    Seriously. Step by step, compare the two. For every argument about firearms, I can respond by arguing that alcohol is even worse.

    And it’s funny to watch the Left writhe and do intellectual Twister, because they know that banning alcohol doesn’t work. Why, I even had one person say that drinking alcohol was a person choice, and one had to weigh the costs over the entire population.

    Yet that same person wants to rush out and bad firearms.

    Perhaps this is a meme worth pushing. Much more damage from liquor than firearms. A lot more.

    Simon Jester (e64ed4)

  56. The more guns that are out there, the more suicides, murders and accidents there are.

    What is it with libtards? They imagine they’re talking common sense, when what they’re dealing in is ignorance in widespread circulation.

    Somehow South Korea and Japan manage to keep themselves in the top ten for countries with the highest suicide rates. Despite the fact that handguns are banned and long guns tightly restricted.

    The US, by the way, is no where near the top ten. Despite the fact that guns are more freely available.

    Yet libtards like Mz Cab speak as if it somehow makes sort sort of sense to link availability of guns to murders, suicides, and accidents. When there is no demonstrable correlation.

    Steve57 (b64cdf)

  57. BTW, and O/T, I see that Politico is saying that now that Boehner has pulled Plan-B from the table, that if we go over the cliff, the GOP will be blamed.
    Excuse me?
    The GOP was always going to get the blame from the WH/media.
    If we go over the cliff, don’t go over the cliff, raise taxes, slash taxes, if the Moon crashes into Miami – the GOP will always be portrayed as the ones at fault!
    That is the political/media climate that we live in, so get over it!

    (cross posted)

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  58. The “government must solve everything by doing the stupid thing that sounds good” crowd demands it.

    Let’s defiantly name it: “Liberal twits“.

    Granted, that’s an oxymoron, but it does help clarify to exactly which twits are being referred…

    God, that sounds contorted. What liberal twit came up with the notion that sentences can’t end in prepositions…? :-9

    IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States (8e2a3d)

  59. The shooter in the Newtown massacre shot himself ONLY after being confronted with a gun.

    I hadn’t heard that (cite?) but it was certainly true of the Oregon Mall guy.

    IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States (8e2a3d)

  60. it’s good to have guns but I worry more about bears than crazed autistic killboys

    happyfeet (ae4c7f)

  61. Yet libtards like Mz Cab speak as if it somehow makes sort sort of sense to link availability of guns to murders, suicides, and accidents. When there is no demonstrable correlation.

    Duh. Because the NY Times tells them it’s so. And why would they lie? They fired Jayson Blair, no one else there would ever, ever, ever lie… Clearly it’s all Fox disinformation and wingnuts salivating over guns saying otherwise.

    When you have a single source for news, it’s not hard to believe whatever it says, particularly if you’re a clueless libtard fool.

    IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States (8e2a3d)

  62. 62. it’s good to have guns but I worry more about bears than crazed autistic killboys

    Comment by happyfeet (ae4c7f) — 12/21/2012 @ 4:19 pm

    The nice things about bears is that they’re easy to ID. You come around a bend in the trail and it’s like, “Hey, there’s a bear!”

    Which doesn’t happen with crazed autistic killboys because it isn’t like you walk out of Victoria’s Secret into the mall and immediately spot the mass murderer in the crowd.

    Guns give you a warm fuzzy feeling in either encounter.

    Steve57 (b64cdf)

  63. plus bears want to eat you face whereas crazy people are unpredictable

    happyfeet (ae4c7f)

  64. Dude, bears are less likely to try and eat your face than some naked crazy guy in Miami hopped up on bath salts.

    I’ve surprised bears. I never deliberately pissed one off by getting between it and the dumpster.

    Cooler heads prevailed.

    Naked Miami bath salts guy I don’t believe will prove to be as sane.

    Steve57 (b64cdf)

  65. Comment by IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States (8e2a3d) — 12/21/2012 @ 4:26 pm

    You’re disparaging SF’s primary news source.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  66. The Constitution allowed this provided the permitee is part of a well regulated militia, but the folks crying for their 2A rights always seem to forget to join the local brigade…

    You do realize, don’t you, that the “militia interpretation” was created to disarm blacks. Guess who wasn’t invited to join that local brigade in 1953?

    So, take your racist ideas back to the KKK where they came from.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  67. The more guns that are out there, the more suicides, murders and accidents there are.

    The more poor people there are, the more robbery, starvation, and hopelessness there is. So lets get rid of poor people! If I follow your logic.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  68. If you read Thomas Sowell, Larry Elder, and Walter Williams, you would know that poverty does not cause crime, but that Crime Causes Poverty.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  69. OT: Can anyone ‘splain to an economic dilettante how milk prices will spike if Federal price supports lapse?

    Quick answer: Impulse response.

    The idea is that there are a significant number of producers who would quickly fail if costs dropped to a market rate. Initially, prices would drop; then there would be widespread failures followed by a product shortage. Prices would rise sharply until the efficient producers bought out the assets (i.e. cows) of the failed producers or otherwise acted to meet demand. What happens after that depends on how much competition is left and other factors, but I’d expect prices to settle at a lower level than what supported the inefficient. A nincompoop might expect the prices to stay up “because that’s what large companies do.”

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  70. Kevin, let’s face it. The Mahalia Cabs will never let facts trump ideology. The myths must triumph, ahistorical though they be.

    Negroes with Guns (African American Life) [Paperback]

    First published in 1962, “Negroes with Guns” is the story of a southern black community’s struggle to arm itself in self-defense against the Ku Klux Klan and other racist groups. Frustrated and angered by violence condoned or abetted by the local authorities against blacks, the small community of Monroe, North Carolina, brought the issue of armed self-defense to the forefront of the civil rights movement. The single most important intellectual influence on Huey P. Newton, the founder of the Black Panther Party, “Negroes with Guns” is a classic story of a man who risked his life for democracy and freedom.

    …Williams found out about this the hard way when the police refused to assist him against a racist onslaught, but also when the NAACP turned on him too and revoked his NAACP charter for using a gun to save himself from being lynched!

    Who would have thought that it would be the the NRA that would come to the aid of Williams and his beleaguered people?

    Not exactly the image that the media would like us to have of the NRA, or the NAACP for that matter.

    …The author writes from his point of view in a convincing and persuasive style in order to help defend his right and others to bear arms in the South. In his home town of Monroe, North Carolina, African Americans were subjected to horrors of abuse and their perpetrators (almost always Caucasian) would get away from law enforcement.

    Williams writes that he doesn’t support violence with violence. No, he argues that for African Americans in his community, the right to bear arms and defend themselves is necessary since law enforcement, government agencies, and even the Monroe Police Department failed to defend their citizens based on race.

    The stories here are true and horrifying about injustice to African Americans during this period. This book should be mandatory reading for everybody in the United States with regards to studying civil rights.

    But if you get your news from the NYT or ESPN or Mahalia Cab the NRA = the KKK.

    Steve57 (b64cdf)

  71. Lots of things cause poverty. For example, bad monopoly schools cause poverty. Stupidity causes poverty. Government dole sustains poverty and makes it tolerable for generations.

    I was simply responding to troll boy and wasn’t really aiming for accuracy.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  72. Steve–

    Here in California circa 1970, the BLack Panthers would carry purportedly unloaded rifles and shotguns in public as a demonstration of resistance. At one point they marched on the State Capitol so armed. There was no law against it.

    Of course such a law was hastily passed.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  73. Again, I keep coming back to the alcohol argument. That it irritates stalker/alphabetists like Kman is a feature, not a bug.

    Seriously. Step by step, compare the two. For every argument about firearms, I can respond by arguing that alcohol is even worse.

    And it’s funny to watch the Left writhe and do intellectual Twister, because they know that banning alcohol doesn’t work. Why, I even had one person say that drinking alcohol was a person choice, and one had to weigh the costs over the entire population.

    Yet that same person wants to rush out and bad firearms.

    Perhaps this is a meme worth pushing. Much more damage from liquor than firearms. A lot more.

    Would a Ban on Alcohol Reduce Crime?

    According to a Bureau of Justice Statistics Report, 3 million violent crimes had been committed by people who are drinking. Two-thirds of domestic violence incidents involve the use of alcohol. 2 million convicted offenders under the jurisdiction of corrections agencies had been drinking at the time of the offense.

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  74. 66. plus bears want to eat you face whereas crazy people are unpredictable

    Comment by happyfeet (ae4c7f) — 12/21/2012 @ 4:39 pm

    I’m not a cat person. I have no use for cats. I don’t like people who like cats. When I was stationed in Sandy Eggo a lady was killed in a state park by a mountain lion. She seemed from the write-up to be a cat person, so I considered it a form of rough justice even though I did conclude it was damned rude of the cat to kill her by the official state park bench with her name engraved on it for being such a generous cat person.

    Still, I’ve got to give credit where credit’s due.

    BOULDER COUNTY, Colo. – A woman in Boulder County called the sheriff’s office on Thursday and said she was trapped in a bathroom because of a mountain lion, dispatchers confirmed.

    The woman said she was near the amphitheater at the summit of Flagstaff Mountain. State wildlife officials said the lion was only about three feet away when the woman spotted it.

    Deputies and wildlife officials found the woman in the bathroom, but the mountain lion was gone.

    Officials said they found lion tracks corroborating the woman’s account.

    If the line at the ampitheater is too long after the Strolling Bones (Mick and the gang are, what, a thousand years old?) concert breaks up the cat will just toodle along down the road to use the can at the Shell station.

    Steve57 (b64cdf)

  75. mountain lions eat you face

    happyfeet (ae4c7f)

  76. 79. mountain lions eat you face

    Comment by happyfeet (ae4c7f) — 12/21/2012 @ 6:19 pm

    Only if they’re high on bath salts.

    Which is highly unlikely at a Strolling Bones concert because all they sell there is Ensure and Geritol.

    Steve57 (b64cdf)

  77. And Cialis. The Summer of Love was a loooong time ago.

    Steve57 (b64cdf)

  78. The shooter in the Newtown massacre shot himself ONLY after being confronted with a gun.
    Actually, I believe it was the sound of approaching sirens that encouraged him to eat his weapon.

    Gazzer (4c4ae2)

  79. Plus, I see that the fools at the National Enquirer have put the murdering scrote’s visage on the front cover. Way to discourage “blaze of glory” copy cars!

    Gazzer (4c4ae2)

  80. I’m bored with newtown

    I’m bored with fiscalcliff

    I wanna go see hobbits

    happyfeet (ae4c7f)

  81. “To say the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a gun is a losing mentality.”

    True. Flamethrowers, howitzers or air strikes are also options.

    Real winners use whatever will get the job done.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  82. Mr. LaPierre should either suggest a tax on guns and ammo that will pay for the extra police presence at schools, or he should leave this to states, counties, and municipalities, or he should keep his damn mouth shut. But don’t go demanding that the Feds spend money that we don’t have.
    Comment by JVW (08df28) — 12/21/2012 @ 11:01 am

    – NO, law-abiding gun owners do not need to be called upon to pay a tax, as if their ‘need for guns’ bears some responsibility for this tragedy. And this needs to be left to the states because they are supposed to be the ones running their schools!

    Mr. LaPierre did NOT ‘hit it out of the park’ on this one. The naming of alternative scapegoats comes off looking like what it is: deflection. Prior to the existence of violent video games and realistic portrayals of violence on tv, there were westerns and war movies and gangster pictures, and young kids played with toy six-shooters and army men.

    You don’t blame the ‘culture of violence’ — you blame THE CULTURE THAT DOES NOT ADEQUATELY DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL MEMBERS OF OUR SOCIETY!!!

    Icy (tehGr8) (a81517)

  83. Obesity is epidemic & there’s heavy overeating on holidays.

    Ban forks.

    faxhorn (ff9b4f)

  84. who is the NRA defying and who put them ones in charge?
    just for my records
    Comment by happyfeet (b88b3f) — 12/21/2012 @ 11:28 am

    – Mr. feets, they are defying a ‘what’, not a “who”; and the “what” that they are defying is: The Liberal Meme. As for “who put them ones in charge?” it’s the same ones that are complaining about the ‘defiance’ now: the left-leaning media.

    Icy (tehGr8) (a81517)

  85. Why aren’t we calling this what it is: domestic terrorism?
    Is it because it’s not done for the same effect as other forms of terrorism? The end result is the same.
    Comment by Tillman (51d7aa) — 12/21/2012 @ 12:08 pm

    – That’s very good, Tillmam; give yourself a gold star.

    Icy (tehGr8) (a81517)

  86. faxhorn, don’t be surprised if Nanny Bloomberg comes around to make sure you haven’t shoved too much stuffing up your turkey’s butt.

    Icy (tehGr8) (a81517)

  87. Rest assured, if terrorism like Beslan, and Toulouse comes about, the Times will make excuses for it,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  88. I listened to Mr NRO CEO on the radio.
    All of it. I happen to agree, you don’t.
    Comment by mg (31009b) — 12/21/2012 @ 1:26 pm

    – mg, do you really agree with EVERYTHING that he said?

    Icy (tehGr8) (a81517)

  89. Real winners use whatever will get the job done.
    Comment by Dave Surls (46b08c) — 12/21/2012 @ 6:48 pm

    – Yep. Even when a teenage punk is sitting on top of them and slamming their head into the ground.

    Icy (tehGr8) (a81517)

  90. The Sanity Inspector needs to do a self-exam.

    Icy (tehGr8) (a81517)

  91. The problem isn’t guns, it’s crazy people who are protected every which way by the state. Even in Newtown, Moms was trying to commit her son, but the state wouldn’t let her. He found out and killed her, then killed the schoolkids he though she loved more than him.

    We need a system where a combination of relatives and professionals can tentatively commit a person, pending due process review, and which puts a duty on mental health professionals to indicate persons who are not safe around guns.

    We also need to break the “Gun Free Zone” mentality that pretends that guns don’t exist. As fatal as walking in a crosswalk without checking for traffic.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  92. OT: Can anyone ‘splain to an economic dilettante how milk prices will spike if Federal price supports lapse?

    Turns out the answer is simpler, and way stupider: There are older price supports that go into effect that are twice as high. Instead of buying “surplus” milk at $3.65 a gallon, the Feds will buy it at $7/gallon. I bet there will be LOTS of milk (and colored water, etc) offered to the government at that price.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  93. The more guns that are out there, the more suicides, murders and accidents there are. Yes, it makes sense that armed citizens are more likely to intercede in a crime, but those rare positive occurrences are more than wiped out by the negative by a magnitude of 100. Taking 2009 figures, it was 300 interventions vs. 30,000 suicides, mishaps and ‘gone postal’ tragedies.

    That is utter falsehood, and you damn well know it.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  94. Why aren’t we calling this what it is: domestic terrorism? Is it because it’s not done for the same effect as other forms of terrorism?

    Um, yes. That seems like a perfectly good reason. Otherwise you’ll end up calling the road toll “terrorism”, and smoking “terrorism”, and naughty children running amok at home “domestic terrorism”.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  95. Comment by Rob Crawford (6c262f) — 12/21/2012 @ 12:37 pm

    Exactly. As SPWR put it, nobody needs to speak to more than, say, 1000 people at a time. Ban high-capacity media.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  96. . But…The progressive KKK…? You should get a job writing speeches for the NRA.

    Um, what’s your problem with this phrase? Jim Crow was a policy of the Progressive movement, particularly Woodrow Wilson. If you claim there were differences between the Progressives and the Klan, please outline them.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  97. So no, police in schools would not be a panacea.

    I have no solution to offer. If it were an easy issue, smarter and better people than me would have figured it out long ago.

    I do. Forget stationing policemen in schools. That would be a massive waste of money, and would hardly achieve anything. Schools can be made a lot safer by two steps: 1) Repeal the gun-free schools law. Even on its own, this would make schools safer, as those licensed adults with business there, and who choose to carry, would be available to protect the children and everyone else. This would make schools a less attractive target for would-be mass killers. But that can be greatly enhanced with 2) Offer a small pay bump to any school employee who agrees to qualify for a CCW and commits to carrying on the job. One might suggest a third step, making it mandatory for school staff to do so, but I think that’s unnecessarily coercive when a good result can be achieved without it.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  98. True, Wilson was somewhat like Daniel Malan, the founder of Apartheid in South Africa, having resegregated the DC public schools, a friend of Thomas Dixon, ‘the author of the Klansman, which became ‘Birth of a Nation

    ironically, he owed part of his victory to WEB Dubois, who not for the first time chose poorly, subsequently supporting Stalinism, and even for a time, had a kind word for Hitler,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  99. Most civilian practitioners of the Art of the Pistolero, shoot much better than the NYPD, which has a terrible marksmanship record.

    Indeed. Another reason why school safety should not be entrusted to policemen, when it can instead be given to ordinary CCW holders going about their lawful occasions.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  100. Cops are already assigned to schools across the U.S.

    Yossarian (3932f0)

  101. As someone once summed up the anti-gun crowd:

    “Teenagers are racing their cars through city streets where the posted limit is 35 MPH. Your solution is to lower the speed limit to 30.”

    navyvet (02dd07)

  102. Why aren’t we calling this what it is: domestic terrorism? Is it because it’s not done for the same effect as other forms of terrorism?

    We don’t call it that when a jihadist Army officer does it at Fort Hood, why should we do it anywhere else?

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  103. Up at #10, I linked to a list of violent TV shows, listed by average body count per episode.

    What I failed to notice was that in the top two offenders, Spartacus: Vengence (25) and Game of Thrones (13) there were no guns of any kind. Just swords and such. Imagine that.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  104. I see this as the top story on Yahoo, the page that comes up when I access my email. Headline:

    NRA’s defiant LaPierre dismisses critics of school gun plan

    Those Journolisters are in sync.

    PC14 (7cfd34)

  105. Cops are already assigned to schools across the U.S.

    The LAUSD, and several suburban districts adjacent to L.A., already have their own sworn P.D.’s.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  106. I’m looking at this,

    A conservative case for an assault weapons ban
    If we can’t draw a sensible line on guns, we may as well call the American experiment in democracy a failure.

    ,
    where the newspaper liberals feel so secure and comfortable that they even pretend to speak for the conservatives while advocating to serve up other people’s children unprotected to random murderers.
    How do they not fear beatings in public or reprisal for this outrage?

    Here’s the answer, on Google maps. Los Angeles Times building. When the police are minutes away from your house, they are just a holler away from the front desk of the Times.

    papertiger (e55ba0)

  107. Don’t forgt, he’s a judge making this argument?

    narciso (ee31f1)

  108. Don’t forget, he’s a judge making this argument?

    One who wants to move up, apparently.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  109. Don’t forget that it is the Times Editor who gave this “judge” the megaphone.

    papertiger (e55ba0)

  110. That first map didn’t turn out too well for illustrating my point.

    This one is better. Driving directions from the L.A. Times Building to LAPD Headquarters.

    Right accross the street.

    papertiger (e55ba0)

  111. #4 luagha

    Right now, for seven thousand dollars, you can buy yourself a ‘CNC’ cutting machine, which stands for ‘Computer Numerical Control’. You can download gun plans from the internet, hand that machine a block of steel, and it will grip it and turn it in all three dimensions and cut out the gun parts in the plan you downloaded……

    That is way,way over simplified. You are going to need a few different types of CNC machines, as in a CNC mill and a CNC lathe and perhaps even manual grinders and honers besides other machine shop stuff. All depending on the simplicity of the design.

    A bench-top $8.5k CNC mill is not going to produce parts in volume, they are designed for R&D or a very small volume home business. Not 5-10 guns a week, try maybe 1 gun every two weeks or so, if even that. You have a lot of bugs to work out before you could produce anything in volume. Then you will be making one part over and over, before you move on to the next “one part” that you will again make over and over, then the next part and so on.

    Basically you have to be a very well versed machinist to machine any firearm whether it be manual or by CNC. A CNC mill or lathe does not turn a non-machinist into a machinist, you have to be a machinist to program and run any type of CNC.

    There are some new 3D printers available that use a metal powder with a binder that could possibly create a firearm. Although I don’t picture it being capable of making the barrel (I could be wrong about that) and I am not sure what type of surface finish it can “print” and whether other machining would be involved to get the proper tolerance and finish required. I am also not sure what types of pressures this metal powder with binder can handle and if the product is capable of the pressures firearms create?

    Not sure what this 3D metal powder printer costs, but I think it’s safe to assume it’s not priced for the average Joe.

    MSL (5f601f)

  112. MSL, give it 10 years.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  113. Moore’s Law!

    askeptic (2bb434)

  114. Hey, it’s for the children .. and I can’t argue with that.

    Marlboro Township, NJ

    It’s apparently the first district nationwide bent on packing heat in every schoolhouse since madman Adam Lanza gunned down 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn., on Dec. 14.

    “We’ve made a collective decision as a town that we need armed security in each of our schools,” Mayor Jonathan Hornik told The Post.

    “With this new evil, you can’t just sit there and hope that it doesn’t happen in your town. We must protect our kids.”

    In this lastest chapter of ObamaDoesn’tCare, these people put their children ahead of political posturing but BS-artists like our Pres**ent, and adopt a version of the Boxer/NRA plan.

    Neo (d1c681)

  115. Comment by gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 12/21/2012 @ 1:00 pm

    OT: Can anyone ‘splain to an economic dilettante how milk prices will spike if Federal price supports lapse?

    The federal price supports don’t lapse. The level of price supports (perhaps specified in the law) lapses and it reverts to a formula to be used to calculate that was enacted in 1949.

    This formula would about double the level of current prices.

    The Secretary of Agriculture could probably delay buying for a while. so prices won;t go up as fast I thought.

    Sammy Finkelman (0c3646)

  116. 39. Comment by SPQR (c5cd23) — 12/21/2012 @ 12:59 pm

    Sammy, that you don’t understand 3D printing technology does not mean there is anything wrong with the story. But the contortions you will go through should be fascinating ….

    I don’t doubt that guns, minus the screws (which could also be “printed” could be done, but it strikes me something is wrong with that article with regard to the general description of what’s going on.

    Comment number 115 by MSL goes into what’s wrong with that article.

    I knew there was something worng with this story.

    Sammy Finkelman (0c3646)

  117. Comment by The Sanity Inspector (0472b5) — 12/21/2012 @ 2:28 pm

    I have no solution to offer. If it were an easy issue, smarter and better people than me would have figured it out long ago.

    They maybe did, and maybe even work for the NRA, but the NRA doesn’t want people to realize what the best solution is, because then the gun companies would sell less guns. Don’t think there’s not somebody there who understands the issue and what the solution is. (and they keep it under wraps)

    Sammy Finkelman (0c3646)

  118. 50. The police in that incident where 9 people plus the gunman was shot, made a big mistake, not recognized as a mistake, in questioning the gunman as soon as they were told that he had just klled someone.

    They did get it right in preventing themselves (and others)from being shot by the gunman (which they could have expected as a possibility,if what they were being told was true)

    And nobody close was shot.

    But this was a midtown street on a weekday. Some bullets traveled far away and injured people (none fatally or too seriously)

    They had too many bullets in their clip.

    Sammy Finkelman (0c3646)

  119. Comment by Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 12/22/2012 @ 9:57 am

    We also need to break the “Gun Free Zone” mentality that pretends that guns don’t exist. As fatal as walking in a crosswalk without checking for traffic

    “Gun free zones” prevent people who aren’t planning to do something wrong, but might later, from bringing in guns into the area.

    They also mean metal detectors can be stationed at the entrances.

    Crimes are basically committed there with guns when someone is prepared to get killed or commit suicide, or accept even life imprisonment.

    They maybe make some people feel more secure because they are more afraid of a sudden decision by someone, or an accident, or gun being stolen and used than fear this will encourage a serious crime. Gun free zones aren’t entirely gun free – there’s police expected when 10 or 20 minutes have gone on since it started – and the perpetrator cannot really escape.

    It’s also done only when there are not too many guns around to begin with.

    Now maybe this is a stupid idea, but it is not totally stupid.

    Sammy Finkelman (0c3646)

  120. Are speed limits useless because only the law abiding, who are careful drivers anyway, will obey the speed limit?

    But there what you are preventing is unintentional accidents.

    Sammy Finkelman (0c3646)

  121. #116 Kevin M

    Not in 10 years, not in a 100 years.

    All programs are written for those in the know, unless you know, they are not for you. Simple as that.

    Even with the most advanced 3D printing, the person making the parts and putting them together is going to have to have a clue. And I am not talking about being able to put Legos together, there is so much more involved. Perhaps someone with a mechanical engineering and machinist back ground could solve the problems. Otherwise the stuff they happen to stumble upon, will blow up in their hands. Thus being more of a danger to them, then anyone they are shooting at.

    Some people read about stuff in books or learn about it in a seminar, other people actually do it in the meat world. The difference between the two is night and day.

    MSL (5f601f)

  122. It’s easier than MSL is saying. With CNC, you do have to have knowledge, you have to be handy, some parts (the barrel specifically) are better done just buying the right tubing and the right tool to rifle it yourself. But he’s missing the new generation of bench-top CNC machines. They’ve come a leap forward from his estimate.

    Firearms are not rocket science. They are legos. Some common firearms have 11-17 parts total. It’s IKEA level.

    luagha (1de9ec)

  123. Are speed limits useless because only the law abiding, who are careful drivers anyway, will obey the speed limit?

    But what you are advocating is the equivalent of installing a four banger with a single barrel carb on every law abiding citizen’s vehicle, ripping out their V8′s and double overhead cams, so that no driver will be capable of exceeding the speed limit, except for those illegal aliens who drive without a license anyhow. Those guys will be weaving in and out of traffic, sideswiping pedestrians, just speedy Gonzales.

    papertiger (e55ba0)

  124. Oh and btw, Sammy fuck you nutless – for calling the great most of us, your fellow Americans, reckless with our shooting iron.

    You broad brush smearing candy assed pansy

    papertiger (e55ba0)

  125. Comment by luagha (1de9ec) — 12/23/2012 @ 9:53 pm

    Firearms are not rocket science. They are legos. Some common firearms have 11-17 parts total. It’s IKEA level

    What’s the hard part? The ammunition? Something needed to fire the bullets?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  126. Comment by MSL (5f601f) — 12/23/2012 @ 9:39 pm

    Otherwise the stuff they happen to stumble upon, will blow up in their hands. Thus being more of a danger to them, then anyone they are shooting at.

    Like any other explosives? And I also heard about recoil.

    Some people read about stuff in books or learn about it in a seminar, other people actually do it in the meat world. The difference between the two is night and day.

    It’s one of those myths that someone can learn to build bombs over the Internet.

    The record of amateurs with bombs is either they blow themselves up (like the Weathermen) or the the explosion is a dud – much smaller than they expected because the bomb blows itself up.

    As for the insurgents in Iraq?

    They got trained by Iran – somebody did – how to build it.

    There are very few people who can build something like a suicide belt – that’s why Israel stoppeed them by killing just one bombmaker or two. The terrorists there no longer use suicide belts.

    The car bonbs in Iraq were made in a factory (special location)

    And IED is not really improvised. There has to be somebody who really knows how to do this.

    The insurgents in Afghanistan also had to be trained.

    Nobody picks this thing up on the Internet.

    There’s this guy extradited from England who lost his hands. Probably trying to build a bomb. The member of FALN also.

    Terry Nichols really did have to go to the Phillipines to learn how to do this personally from ramzi Youssef I think. His experiments in Michigan did not help him. He avoided blowing himself up but couldn’t create big enough explosions.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  127. http://www2.fiu.edu/~blissl/Flynngs.pdf

    Very good article about mistakes.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  128. MSL, Google up “Liberator pistol” and “Sten sub-machine gun”. Both designed to be made (gun and ammo) with 60 year old technology under actual military occupation. And hundreds of thousands were.

    SDN (8df94c)

  129. This formula would about double the level of current prices

    Which should just drive the amount needed for WICS sky-high.
    All of the Ag Price-support programs are just classical crony capitalism.
    But, if you’re not going to end the Ethanol Madness, why would you end price-supports for milk, wheat, corn, wool, etc.?

    askeptic (2bb434)

  130. Comment by Sammy Finkelman (0c3646) — 12/23/2012 @ 9:02 pm

    Sammy, again, the NRA does not represent gun-makers, but individual gun-owners.
    Gun-makers are represented by the NSSF.
    And, you are confirming that your grasp on reality is tenuous at best.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  131. They had too many bullets in their clip.
    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (0c3646) — 12/23/2012 @ 9:08 pm

    Clip?
    For I’m sure the upteenth time SF, modern firearms don’t use “clips”, they use “magazines”.
    A “clip” does not have a spring, a “magazine” does.
    The only semi-automatic firearm in even some-what widespread ownership (not even use, unless you’re a target shooter) that uses a “clip” is the M-1 Garand rifle.
    For someone who purports to know a lot, you are awfully ignorant.
    You must be one of those “liberal friends” that Ronald Reagan spoke about in 1964!

    askeptic (2bb434)

  132. Sammy – Why do you want to leave school children and women defenseless?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  133. Sammy – What informs your opinion with respect to the appropriate size magazine for a semi-automatic pistol or rifle?

    How do you define an assault rifle? Is it primarily based upon scary appearance or is there something about functionality?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  134. O/T?
    Maybe not as the conversation involves LE…..

    Going Euro, and the dangers of the PE-Unions:
    http://www.samizdata.net/2012/12/15632/
    Houston, we have a problem!

    askeptic (2bb434)

  135. We find these truths to be self-evident…..

    BY ITS FRUIT THE TREE IS KNOWN: 440+ School Age Children Shot in Gun-Controlled Chicago. “In a gun-control-utopia such as this, you’d expect school-age children to be safe from all harm, if you buy into the theories of Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Chuck Schumer (D-NY). Yet the truth is more than 440 school-age children have been shot in Chicago in 2012. This is not to say that 440 school-age children died, simply that more than 440 school-age children were at least wounded. The number of school-age children killed is reported at approximately 60.”

    (Posted at 4:32 pm by Glenn Reynolds)

    askeptic (2bb434)

  136. It means more union jobs for them, doesn’t it?

    askeptic (2bb434)

  137. Finkleman, you r repetition that the NRA’s position comes from a desire to help gun companies sell more guns is a stupid lie on your part. It got old a long time ago and when challenged all you’ve done is repeat it.

    Indeed, when the Federal ban on new magazines greater than 10 was in effect, all it did was make existing pre-ban magazines in warehouses more valuable. Because there were already millions of firearms of those capacities and hundreds of millions of magazines. And the industry shifted to more concealable pistols for the concealed carry permit crowd where the reduced magazine capacity was a design advantage. Every manufacturer put out compact designs. You truly are only reinforcing your ignorance.

    The whole idea that somehow the eleventh round in a gun is more dangerous than the first ten is something so stupid only a politician could believe it … or you Sammy.

    SPQR (6b9b8a)

  138. SPQR, please, a little charity is called for on Christmas.
    But, in Sammy’s case, very little.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  139. #126 – Comment by luagha
    We recently received 2 brand new next generation CNC’s for the shop. The cost for each was over $400k, I imagine they are just a tad bit more sophisticated then the $8k bench-top variety. They require someone who is more than just a “little handy” to operate.

    #133 – Comment by SDN
    I am not suggesting that firearms can’t be made. I am flat out saying a non-machinist person, although they are a little handy, can not run a CNC machine right off the shelf with little effort.

    MSL (5f601f)

  140. A real gunsmith can, and does, make a firearm with a file. Indeed, look up “Khyber Pass Specials” to see examples of copies of every kind of firearm you can imagine hacked up out of scrap steel with little more than a file.

    SPQR (768505)

  141. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khyber_Pass_Copy

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darra_Adam_Khel

    You probably have to be pretty skilled to do this. That’s why we don’t hear more about this, and why practically all the manufacturing is confined to one town, although legal reasons maybe could also be a factor.

    From the second Wikipedia article:

    In the arcades off the main road are workshops. Hundreds of closet-sized rooms where men and boys make working copies of the entire world’s guns with nothing more than hand tools and a small drill press. The tools are astonishingly primitive, yet the forges turn out accurate reproduction of every conceivable sort of weapon, from pen pistols and hand-grenades to automatic rifles and anti-aircraft guns. The copies are so painstakingly reproduced that even the serial number of the original is carried over. A Darra gunsmith, given a rifle he hasn’t seen before, can duplicate it in around ten days. Once the first copy is made, each additional copy takes two or three days due to the templates created. Handguns, being more complex, take a little longer.

    In Darra, almost three-fourths of the people are in the gun trade. Pen pistols and walking stick guns are popular here, but heavier ordnance such as anti-aircraft guns is also manufactured. Around 400-700 guns are made in Darra each day and the number is rising with the adoption of more tools. These guns are more than enough for the Pashtuns themselves. Many guns find their way to and from Afghanistan. In the 1980s, heroin was shut down in the markets after consultation with the tribal elders due to foreign pressure, but guns, known as the ornaments of a Pashtun, could not be eliminated. Manufacturing of heavy ammunition, however, has been closed down.

    Travel by foreigners to Darra is forbidden. Travelers can drive by bus or car through Darra without a permit provided they do not stop because that will invite trouble. If tourists/foreigners buy guns, the shopkeepers mostly tip off the customs and the police about the trade. As a result, buyers are nabbed and the guns are either confiscated or released by giving a bribe.

    The Darra arms trade first fired up in 1897. In return for turning a blind eye to this illegal[citation needed] Pashtun enterprise, the British were guaranteed safe passage along the main roads. In any case, the British believed it better that the Pashtuns have inferior weapons of their own making than stolen British-made guns[citation needed].

    Skills and maybe tools to do probably do not exist in the United States, (there are hardly even any good young welders here) and it may also be that usually it would cost more money to build anything this way than to buy it, so these type of skills become extinct. .

    Sammy Finkelman (9c245c)

  142. Comment by SPQR (6b9b8a) — 12/24/2012 @ 7:24

    Finkleman, your repetition that the NRA’s position comes from a desire to help gun companies sell more guns is a stupid lie on your part.

    It’s not a lie. It is rather, the only explanation for their positions that makes sense. If you assume that, everything makes sense.

    It got old a long time ago and when challenged all you’ve done is repeat it.

    It;s not old. It’s very current. I saw it asserted maybe two or three times in the newspaper this past week or so, although they don’t go into detail as to how the gun mannufacturers control the NRA. I would like to know how it’s been demonstrated. It could be wrong, or an oversimplifiction.

    They try to link it to the money. I assume maybe they don’t know how, but it’s a perfectly reasonable assumption that the NRA is an firearms industry front group, and that that’s all it’s ever been.. Based on its actions.

    All they want is more and more guns out there, sometimes giving very specious reasons. They don’t seem to care much about restrictions on some people’s ability to buy guns, as long as there won’t be too many of them, and they suggest impractical things.

    Did you know they now said every person who tries to buy a gun and is disqualified should be prosecuted? That’s how much they disregard anything that could be called rights. This would be very unfair probably to some people, and surely they don’t believe that every person stopped from buying a gun would have committed a crime, or even been much more likely to do so, or been dangerous, but it wouldn’t cost the gun companies a customer, since such people are already on the blacklist, so it’s no skin off their back to suggest that.

    If they were motivated by the idea of citizen’s rights, they would never suggest anything like that. They don’t take the same position about anyone who violates any other gun law. That woul
    d hurt the gun companies.

    One thing that is clear is that the NRA is controlled by insiders, much like your average corporation, or for that matter, the Red Cross.

    There’s separate lobbying by the gun companies, but that doesn’t mean the NRA isn’t also at the service of gun companies. But there are certain things, like jobs that would be lost, or added expenses, that the NRA can’t argue.

    Comment number 754 at:
    http://patterico.com/2012/12/14/mass-shooter-was-autistic-how-relevant-was-this/#comments

    SPQR: The gun manufacturing companies do not propose candidates for the Board of Directors.

    From this website: http://www.netgunsmith.com/2012/04/the-nra-election-and-the-nra-board-of-directors/

    NRA election candidates for 2012 with industry endorsements:

    There seem to be only a few, though.

    Sammy Finkelman (9c245c)

  143. SPQR: Indeed, when the Federal ban on new magazines greater than 10 was in effect, all it did was make existing pre-ban magazines in warehouses more valuable.

    That’s an achievement. The more expensive something is, the less likely it is to be misused.

    Because there were already millions of firearms of those capacities and hundreds of millions of magazines. And the industry shifted to more concealable pistols for the concealed carry permit crowd where the reduced magazine capacity was a design advantage. Every manufacturer put out compact designs. You truly are only reinforcing your ignorance.

    It seems to me, the longer it takes to fire X number of rounds, the less dangerous such a weapon in a criminal’s hands is.

    The whole idea that somehow the eleventh round in a gun is more dangerous than the first ten is something so stupid only a politician could believe it … or you Sammy.

    Actually I think 10 is too high. Governor Andrew Cuomo wants to go down to seven. I think 6 or 5 or 4 would be better.

    Oh, and make reloading slower.

    Sammy Finkelman (9c245c)

  144. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-45_Liberator

    The Liberator pistol was mass produced, but designed to look as it hadn’t been, and it had deficiencies and was nicknamed the Woolworth pistol.. It was never widely distributed, as had been the original idea.

    Sammy Finkelman (9c245c)

  145. *as if it hadn’t been. (presumably, so the Germans would not suspect there existed a supply chain)

    Sammy Finkelman (9c245c)

  146. Comment by askeptic (2bb434) — 12/24/2012 @ 9:55 am

    For I’m sure the upteenth time SF, modern firearms don’t use “clips”, they use “magazines”.

    This is not the upteenth time, this is the first time.

    When you don’t understand that certain words have a technical meaning, you tend to treat them all as synonyms and adopt the simplest sounding one.

    In fact maybe magazine – to the extent I figured out what that meant anyway, seemed like a type of clip and maybe only applied to rifles. I’ve seen them on TV and they seem to be big.

    I checked. One definition my dictionary has of clip is “a cartridge clip.” Not very informative.

    Cartridge clip has its own separate definition and it’s metal container for cartridges, inserted in certain types of firearms (most?)

    One definition of magazine – a supply chamber as the space in rifle or a pistol from which the cartridges are fed.

    So, even after consulting the dictionary, it seems like a magazine is a kind of clip.

    I don’t quite like the word magazine here. It’s too big, and it sounds like something that would describe TIME or Newsweek. (although I know it has the other meaning of storage, especially in some foreign languages)

    I’m sure other people made this mistake, if it’s a mistake. That’s why “clip” seemed to me like a word for anything that holds a number of bullets.

    But it’s reasonable to suppose that the words are not really used that way, and a “magazine” is not a type of “clip”

    A “clip” does not have a spring, a “magazine” does.
    The only semi-automatic firearm in even some-what widespread ownership (not even use, unless you’re a target shooter) that uses a “clip” is the M-1 Garand rifle.
    For someone who purports to know a lot, you are awfully ignorant.

    I do know a lot, but there are certain things I don’t know much about.

    Sammy Finkelman (9c245c)

  147. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2012 @ 9:58 am

    Sammy – Why do you want to leave school children and women defenseless?

    The best immediate defense against a gun is not another gun, but a bullet proof vest or backpack, (of course that doesn’t protect everything and has limitations) locks, hiding places, not being near the front door, and a secret exit that can’t be used as an entrance.

    If you need a weapon against an attacker, maybe a booby trap, or a trigger to release a heavy block on his head, would be better. What? You won’t get that?

    There won’t really be a gun and a sharpshooter at the right place and the right time either, just maybe a possibility of that.

    Better, let rifles and other guns have fewer rounds. It would be more possible to overpower and disarm the attacker, as happened with Jared Lee Loughner. That’s the idea of limiting clip size, or whatever you want to call it.

    Yes, some bigger magazines will still exist, but they’ll be bought up by all the law abiding people.

    Sammy Finkelman (9c245c)

  148. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten

    The Sten submachine gun was put together at the Royal Small Arms Factory in Enfield, England. It had a magazine that used springs.

    In Norway, the resistance built Stens from scratch

    Nothing like this is happening now in places like Syria.

    Sammy Finkelman (9c245c)

  149. “The best immediate defense against a gun is not another gun”

    Sammy – Why would you assume that the only situation in which a gun would be used or threatened to be used is in the case of someone else wielding a gun? Isn’t a gun a gun a good weapon with which to intimidate people invading your home or threatening you with other weapons? If there are multiple criminals involved, why would you want to limit the magazine size to six?

    Also, the idea of women and children overpowering weapon bearing assailants, no disrespect meant to women and children, does not really address the self defense question I raised.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  150. Sammy – When you read about some 75 year old grandmother blasting a couple of punks who broke into her house and were stealing her stuff do you you think good job grandma or do you think she did something wrong?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  151. Sammy, your understanding of self-defense tactics sounds like something you got from a bad Jody Foster movie.

    What a bizarre world you live in Sammy.

    SPQR (768505)

  152. Actually I think 10 is too high. Governor Andrew Cuomo wants to go down to seven. I think 6 or 5 or 4 would be better.

    Sammy, your opinion is astonishingly stupid. And utterly impractical. You don’t even seem to realize that there are 8 shot revolvers.

    And yes,the claim that the NRA is an industry front group rather than driven by membership remains a lie. One that you explicitly can’t explain yet feel compelled to repeat.

    Which tells me all I need to know about your credibility.

    SPQR (768505)

  153. The entire strategy of the gun control activists is one of incrementalism. And it worked for them for awhile, until in the ’90′s their efforts backfired.

    What the gun control activists are trying to convince politicians of, is that there really are not any substantial number of people interested in owning the firearms that they are demonizing with lies.

    But that’s fundamentally obviously false, as these rifles have been flying off the shelves for many years. Millions of them have been made and sold. Millions of people are NRA members, and those NRA members have been radicalized in reaction to the efforts of the gun control activists themselves. And many many more millions of people identify themselves as NRA members when in fact they’ve not actually sent in dues/applications. Sammy wants to pretend that those people don’t exist. And goes through Sammy’s usual bizarre mental contortions and wall-o-text incoherent ramblings to do that.

    But you have convinced no one other than yourself, Sammy.

    Those people were neutralized in the last election by the Democrats – fearing their unity of voting – deliberating not making gun control an election issue.

    And that’s why with some good organization, we’ll be able to slow or stop the media-driven push for gun control laws that will have no actual crime reduction effect but be the basis for the gun control crowd to continue its efforts to disarm us all utterly.

    SPQR (768505)

  154. Even NewsCorp is an unreliable ally, as Murdoch has completely lost it, now this is a ‘bug not a feature, as Port Arthur in 1996, and Dunblane in 1997, were used to drive prohibition, of firearms, with mixed results.

    narciso (3fec35)

  155. I saw an Op-ed article today in the New York Daily News where someone uses the word “clip” in a way that seems all-encompassing.

    When legal bullets bounce back – The irony of three big cases

    Speaking about Heller and McDonald, he writes:

    Neither case foreclosed reasonable gun regulations short of total prohibition — bans on military weapons wholly unnecessary for ordinary self-defense; caps on the amount of firepower a person may stockpile; limits on the size of gun clips; registration and permit requirements; insurance requirements, regular mental health check-ups and so on.

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/legal-bullets-bounce-back-article-1.1225737#ixzz2GAXnldvl

    Some people here might want to comment there.

    Akhil Reed Amar seems to have a rather eclectic understanding of how the constitution ought to be interpreted, and recently wrote a book about it. I’d link to it if it would count as a referral from Patterico.com if it was used.

    He seems to want to at least sound like he’s giving something to every school of thought, and he leaves himself with no real principles, except maybe that a judge can find a reason to do anything he wants, and doesn’t even need to be consistent.

    But he writes a lot on firearms issues, and that’s how he uses the word “clip” and when it comes to word usage, usage is the final authority. Even if he’s wrong about everything else, he’s right about what a word means, so long as it’s real and not like Humpty Dumpty in Alice in Wonderland..

    Usage can extend past the original meaning of a word. After all, people speak of “dialing” a number, and telephone bills mention a “dial tone” even though very few phones have dials these days.. Words reflect old technology. People speak of something being repeated like a broken record. When was the last time anybody heard a broken record?

    And words can be a bit metaphorical.

    Right now, just above, I wrote “speaking” when Amar was clearly only writing and not speaking. But “speaking” means “talking about” – there I go again! – OK, “speaking about” = “covering the subject matter of.”

    More about the article:

    Amar’s argument here is that, now that the Supreme Court has said that people can have guns for self-protection, there is no longer a slippery slope toward gun confiscation to worry about, and so gun regulation should now be easier to enact. (maybe in his universe)

    That’s the “irony” he’s talking about.

    The third case he is talking about is Lawrence vs Texas where the right to have any kind of sex is protected as an unenumerated right, which case he finds is a precedent for Heller, although I don’t know if Scalia et al cited it as a precedent. Maybe if he’d written the opinion. But he didn’t. Doesn’t matter. He’ll say it anyway.

    Amar was a consultant to the “West Wing” TV show and was mentioned in one of it s episodes, and in 2008, Mike Gravel declared that, if elected, he would name him to the Supreme Court. I suppose he is a possible Obama nominee, too, although he probably would not make the short list, because he has an extensive paper trail.

    Sammy Finkelman (798aac)

  156. If you need a weapon against an attacker, maybe a booby trap, or a trigger to release a heavy block on his head, would be better. What? You won’t get that?

    Who are you: The Roadrunner?

    Tell me how you will set up this heavy block when approached by a mugger on the street.

    Chuck Bartowski (988f6b)

  157. Comment by Chuck Bartowski (988f6b) — 12/26/2012 @ 7:32 am

    Who are you: The Roadrunner?

    Tell me how you will set up this heavy block when approached by a mugger on the street.

    We were talking (or I was) about children, that is schools, where you can lay in a defense in depth. (they would never do that in schools, though, because they would be afraid it would be triggered at the wrong tine and by the wrong person)

    The only thing they would really have is something that also served another purpose.

    There are several other ideas: A boomerang, a slingshot, a bow and arrow, a very loud recording with speakers in different places on the outside of the building that the principal or somebody in several different places could select to be played. No two recordings would be the same, and only one would be played. It would be sounds of police arriving. Sounds of police seems to stop these killers in their tracks. Must be careful not to play it twice and have it play on the opposite side of the school from where they are.

    Of course, you could always keep a machine gun in with the power tools, and hope you got a chance to use it.

    When it comes to a mugger, the best thing is attempt to avoid it – if not,t, other weapons will do quite well too at close range.

    Sammy Finkelman (68d444)

  158. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/25/2012 @ 11:38pm

    Sammy – When you read about some 75 year old grandmother blasting a couple of punks who broke into her house and were stealing her stuff do you you think good job grandma or do you think she did something wrong?

    I don’t remember reading anything like that, although I do remember newspaper colulumnist Carl Rowan did something like that (against one person) and there was a court case out in Long Island about a man blasting a couple of teenagers and killing one.

    Do you have a link to anything like that?

    People often shoot too soon. Whether it is right or wrong depends on whether it was necessary, or too dangerous to risk waiting to find out

    Sammy Finkelman (68d444)

  159. Comment by SPQR (768505) — 12/26/2012 @ 4:24 am

    What the gun control activists are trying to convince politicians of, is that there really are not any substantial number of people interested in owning the firearms that they are demonizing with lies.

    I don’t believe that not very many want to own them. The argumnt they are making, by the way, is thatnobody needs to own them.

    I would not try to get rid of them. Just stop their manufacture, or maybe better, place a strict quota and auction off the rights, initiate a buy back policy, make no or few exceptions for the police, and drive up the price, because criminals and suicidal murderers, don’t go for the most expensive weapons.

    Te guns with the ability to fire many rounds seem to have 3 legitimate uses:

    1) Target practice, or other shooting games.
    2) Shooting small animals, like coyotes, surrounding ranch animals.
    3) Introduction to hunting, although it may be considered cheating.

    How much do they add to self-defense? Overall, they are more likely to help a bad guy. A bad guy has the element of surprise, and doesn’t have to hit a specific target. A good guy has only one target. It doesn’t stand to reason that the same weapon would be most suitable for both of them. A rapid fire gun would seem more to benefit the aggressor, who doesn’t care too much about accuracy, than the defender, who must take careful aim, which takes time, so get them out of circulation. No need to absolutely prohibit them – drive up the price and restrict the manufacture. Every current owner will benefit..

    The entire strategy of the gun control activists is one of incrementalism. And it worked for them for awhile, until in the ’90′s their efforts backfired. </i

    That might be correct. The 1994 law made very little sense – probably made the NRA happy that it made so little sense in distinguishing ebetween what it prohibited and what it did not.

    So the anti-gun lobby shouldn’t get its pet bills passed. Hard to believe Sen. Dianne Feinstein wants to pass the exact same bill that ws passed in 1994 – is that correct?

    But that’s fundamentally obviously false, as these rifles have been flying off the shelves for many years.

    This is fundamentally irrational.

    And many many more millions of people identify themselves as NRA members when in fact they’ve not actually sent in dues/applications. Sammy wants to pretend that those people don’t exist.

    No, I think that might explain those polls that show NRA members supporting gun restrictions that they always cite. Paid up NRA members probably have stronger feelings about guns.

    And that’s why with some good organization, we’ll be able to slow or stop the media-driven push for gun control laws that will have no actual crime reduction effect

    I’m not really sure they are even pretending that many of these proposed legal provisions would. They just want to stop these mass shootings, or rather, reduce their scale. Mayor Bloomberg and others have a couple of ideas, that are supposed to reduce crime, but getting rid of firearms that can fire many bullets in a short time isn’t one of them. That’s only to reduce the scale of mass shootings.

    Sammy Finkelman (319d5b)

  160. Because there was no shootings at Jonesboro, and Columbine, were there.

    narciso (3fec35)

  161. SPQR: but be the basis for the gun control crowd to continue its efforts to disarm us all utterly.

    Yes, I didn’t think Akhil Reed Amar was right about the Heller decision reducing the power of the gun lobby by destroying that argument.

    Sammy Finkelman (319d5b)

  162. The gun owners lobby, Sammy, can’t be reduced in power when people like Andrew Cuomo advocate gun confiscations in contravention of both Fifth and Second Amendments.

    And Sammy, your tactical advice still sucks.

    SPQR (768505)

  163. Yah, narciso, there is a reason Amar isn’t my first choice in Constitutional scholars …

    SPQR (768505)

  164. “I don’t remember reading anything like that”

    Sammy – I will rephrase the simple question.

    If you read about some 75 year old grandmother blasting a couple of punks who broke into her house and were stealing her stuff do you think you would say good job grandma or do you think you would say she did something wrong?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  165. daleyrocks, since Sammy thinks I’m only entitled to prepare myself for attacks by a single attacker who is sure to present himself where I can be sure of stopping him with four shots maximum …

    well, I’m pretty sure his answer will be only more bizarre than the rest of his comments.

    SPQR (768505)

  166. “People often shoot too soon.”

    Sammy – How do people shoot too soon in home invasions? Do you have links to such instances?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  167. daleyrocks, all the ones that didn’t shoot too late …

    SPQR (768505)

  168. SPQR – Since Sammy claims not to have read any stories about grannies shooting home invaders, he is probably unaware that if you google the topic, a flood of stories pop up.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  169. I do know a lot, but there are certain things I don’t know much about.
    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (9c245c) — 12/25/2012 @ 10:38 pm

    Then why do you post so much about what you know little?

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  170. Will “Patterico’s Pontifications” be retitled to “Finkelman’s Farts”???

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  171. …shooting too soon in a home invasion….

    Would that be shooting the guy climbing through your window, and he falls back on the ground outside, instead of inside your home?

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  172. “A bad guy has the element of surprise, and doesn’t have to hit a specific target. A good guy has only one target.”

    Sammy – Who’s a** did the above nonsense get pulled from?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  173. But, back to the question at hand:

    Will NBC/David Gregory/et al, suffer any consequences for the breech of law they committed, willfully, on 23 December 2012, within the District of Columbia?

    Donald Sensing thinks not…
    http://senseofevents.blogspot.com/2012/12/is-nbc-above-law.html

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  174. Thomas Sowell @ Townhall.com:

    “...There are people calling for the banning of assault weapons who could not define an “assault weapon” if their life depended on it.
    Yet the ignorant expect others to take them seriously.”</i
    >

    SF, I didn’t know you and Mr. Sowell were acquainted?

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  175. He lives in Palo Alto, that’s sort of a bug over there.

    narciso (3fec35)

  176. “And Sammy, your tactical advice still sucks.”

    SPQR – The Ft. Hood shooting victims were reportedly throwing chairs at Nidal Hassan, presumably a Finkelman approved Wile Coyote method of self defense. How did that turn out?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  177. Maj. Hassan’s weapons: 13/29;
    Chairs, etc: ZERO!

    I guess they just weren’t throwing things hard enough.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  178. “A bad guy has the element of surprise, and doesn’t have to hit a specific target. A good guy has only one target.”

    Sammy – Who’s a** did the above nonsense get pulled from?

    The idea of the element of surprise being important comes from Larry Correia. The rest is common sense,

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  179. daleyrocks, I was also thinking of the line: if you are in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

    SPQR (93dc35)

  180. “The rest is common sense,”

    Sammy – The rest is sort of important and complete nonsense rather than common sense. Try again.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  181. The best immediate defense against a gun is not another gun, but a bullet proof vest or backpack, (of course that doesn’t protect everything and has limitations) locks, hiding places, not being near the front door, and a secret exit that can’t be used as an entrance.

    You can have your backpack and your secret exit construction project.

    I think I’ll continue advising those who seek home protection to pick up a $200 12 gauge shotgun.

    That practically everyone in my neighborhood thinks the way I do on this is probably part of the reason my neighborhood is essentially crime free.

    Backpacks and secret exits to not deter criminals. The fear of being shot by a homeowner deters criminals more than even the fear of police.

    As for the four shot requirement… I do not want to live in a country where only outlaws have high capacity weapons.

    In fact, in my opinion, anything Obama’s admin saw fit to send to drug lords in Fast and Furious should be legal for me to purchase too. Who can argue against that?

    Dustin (73fead)

  182. “You can have your backpack and your secret exit construction project.”

    Dustin – I prefer a personal jetpack, but they are somewhat bulky to wear and have some limitations indoors.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  183. narciso – I thought David Gregory was a “Capital J Journalist” which means he does not have to obey the same silly gun control laws which law abiding Americans do as long as he is violating them in a stunt in furtherance of promoting doing the “right” thing with respect to gun control. See “David Gregory Loophole.”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  184. True, but Wemple’s work, which we are somewhat acquainted with, is deeply clueless,

    narciso (3fec35)

  185. There are several other ideas: A boomerang, a slingshot, a bow and arrow, a very loud recording with speakers in different places on the outside of the building that the principal or somebody in several different places could select to be played. No two recordings would be the same, and only one would be played. It would be sounds of police arriving. Sounds of police seems to stop these killers in their tracks. Must be careful not to play it twice and have it play on the opposite side of the school from where they are.

    My goodness, you are an incredible fool. From now on, “Sammy Finkleman” will be synonymous with “TLDR”. Certainly not worth reading if you continue to post nonsense like the above.

    Chuck Bartowski (988f6b)

  186. Mike Adams over at Townhall has a fairly simple plan for preventing future school shootings.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  187. There’s another way:
    On-Line Education.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  188. – I prefer a personal jetpack, but they are somewhat bulky to wear and have some limitations indoors.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2012

    I dunno. The more I smack my head into the ceiling via jetpack, the more I begin to understand a certain set of comments in this thread.

    Mike Adams over at Townhall has a fairly simple plan

    I enjoyed that.

    Dustin (73fead)

  189. I would not try to get rid of them. Just stop their manufacture,

    I know I promised to ignore him, but it’s like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

    Sammy, you do realize that guns are made in other countries (such as China and Russia), right? And no law that the US could possibly pass would stop the manufacture of guns in other countries, right? And that it’s practically impossible to halt the flow of illegal substances across the US border, right? (Witness, please, the complete absence of cocaine and opium in the US.)

    Please tell me you understand that not only is it not possible to seize all guns, it’s impossible to prevent them from coming back.

    Chuck Bartowski (988f6b)

  190. Chuck, you ask the impossible, that Sammy understand and actually say so.

    SPQR (768505)

  191. Frank Luntz saz: 92.83 % NRA members want to be treated like common criminal while exercising their God-given and Constitutional affirmed rights. /sarc.
    .

    Frank (4518e8)


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