Sophistry? No, Lying
Behold Marcy Wheeler, @emptywheel on Twitter, employing the usual leftist thuggery and sophistry.
Her claim, which she repeats again and again and again, is that I somehow don’t support Steven Crowder reporting the assault on him to authorities. I never said that, ever. And I never would. So, I challenged her to back it up. Her responses make the word “sophistry” seem kind.
I don’t have time to screenshot 100 tweets, but basically it’s just one long exchange that sounds like this:
Wheeler: You said Crowder shouldn’t report the assault!
Me: Except I didn’t say that. Prove I did!
Wheeler: Incredible that an ADA doesn’t think crimes should be reported!
Me: Except I didn’t say that. Prove I did!
Wheeler: Wow. I think I’ll tell your boss that you don’t believe in reporting crimes.
Me: Except I didn’t say that. Prove I did.
Wheeler: Sheesh. A law enforcement officer saying crimes shouldn’t be reported. Can you believe it?
Me: Except I didn’t say that. Prove I did.
Wheeler: Looks like it’s time to ask your boss why their ADA thinks crimes should not be reported.
Me: Except I didn’t say that. Prove I did.
Wheeler: [more of the same, ad infinitum]
And so on, and so on, and so on.
Yes, her responses are actually that stupid. I am not making this up.
Don’t believe me? Go look at the feeds. I’ll embed just a couple right now:
@patterico Thanks though, for checking in. More to copy and send to your boss.
— emptywheel (@emptywheel) December 13, 2012
@patterico I guess then NOW the LA DA policy on crime scenes is to let it go cold?
— emptywheel (@emptywheel) December 13, 2012
The kicker was when she accused me of DELETING the evidence that I had repeatedly demanded, and that she could not provide.
That’s when I knew she wasn’t just engaged in blatant sophistry. That’s when I knew she was lying. She was making things up. Because I deleted NOTHING about Crowder. NOTHING.
The last time I felt like this, Neal Rauhauser was accusing me of framing Anthony Weiner. It was an accusation so out of left field I was shaking my head. But that was a precursor to a lot of evil.
So this, frankly, has me creeped out. Wheeler is a friend of Brad Friedman, business partner of Brett Kimberlin. And she is manufacturing something. I don’t know what’s going on, but it has me decidedly creeped out.
Ding.
Patterico (8b3905) — 12/12/2012 @ 10:51 pmA lying
b***liar will be a lyingb***liar.Invite the
nk (875f57) — 12/12/2012 @ 11:02 pmc***lyingb***liar to come here.Let her come here.
Let her post the screenshots of the tweets I supposedly wrote and deleted.
Seriously, what causes someone to make that kind of thing up?
Patterico (8b3905) — 12/12/2012 @ 11:05 pmThat’s her? Good Lord! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcy_Wheeler
nk (875f57) — 12/12/2012 @ 11:06 pmYeah, this is someone who is supposedly credible.
Making up out of whole cloth an accusation that I deleted something I never wrote.
Patterico (8b3905) — 12/12/2012 @ 11:12 pmI suppose she is credible to … some.
nk (875f57) — 12/12/2012 @ 11:18 pmI think it’s weird she brought your job and your boss into it…again. Who jumps to that in a simple discussion about what happened to a third party?
This isn’t you saying this, this is me. But really….a crime scene? Like CSI Lansing is going to come cordon off the area and dust for fingerprints and gather evidence with tweezers?
No. They would have asked people what happened and the witnesses would have lied like they are lying now. A guy in an NRA hat loosened the ropes, AFP pulled the tend down from the inside, and Crowder acted dramatic in the confusion when some guy was yelling about having a gun. All a big misunderstanding.
Some disputes don’t need the police, even if it is something the the police *could* deal with.
MayBee (085e06) — 12/12/2012 @ 11:32 pm“You watched this video of what happened in Michigan, and have a different opinion than me. I think I’ll call your boss in California and report you”
Who thinks that way?
MayBee (085e06) — 12/12/2012 @ 11:33 pmAmerica is filled with arseholes. I wish they would leave you alone.
mg (31009b) — 12/12/2012 @ 11:41 pmWhat’s with all the “I’m telling your boss” stuff.
Are you in the third grade?
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 12/12/2012 @ 11:41 pmemptyhead is just embarrassed to have gotten the basic story wrong and is desperately trying to save face.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/13/2012 @ 12:08 amUnion goons.
Prop 8 opponents.
In short, the left.
You don’t need to understand their reactions. Just that their reactions are consistently intolerant. That’s why they talk about tolerance so much. To justify their intolerance.
Steve57 (25fb74) — 12/13/2012 @ 12:19 amIt sounds to me like she was channeling David Gregory.
d_fitz (217fe1) — 12/13/2012 @ 12:30 amdaley- it is a good way to try to deflect focus from the fact that a bunch of pro-union protestors tore down someone’s tent and punched a person who was not being violent.
MayBee (085e06) — 12/13/2012 @ 12:33 amMayBee – Absolutely. Deflect and pivot.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/13/2012 @ 12:41 amDoesn’t that “Occupy Rebellion” thing do that all the time? Sounds pretty typical of how those people operate to me. They can simply create a reality by tapping fingers to a keyboard. Seems like a case of mass psychosis on the left to me. They seem to just believe anything they type is real.
crosspatch (6adcc9) — 12/13/2012 @ 1:34 amthat must be a zombie hamster on the wheel powering her “brain”….
we need to chip in and get Patterico a Garand & a rocker, so he can sit on the front porch and keep track of the crazies.
redc1c4 (403dff) — 12/13/2012 @ 2:44 amBack home they have a saying, “Don’t get in a wrestling match with a Pig, you will just get
muddy and sweaty and the Pig will probably enjoy it”
That’s about what came to mind when I read the above exchange
Dan Kauffman (27c54a) — 12/13/2012 @ 3:40 am18- Keep your head in the sand, Dan. When the fight is over you can come out and enjoy freedom.
mg (31009b) — 12/13/2012 @ 4:22 amWait a minute. Suppose you had written what she claims. What would be the big deal? Why would your boss be interested? Since when is there an obligation to report all crimes? Since when is the victim of a crime not entitled to decide not to involve the police, and either to forget it or to seek satisfaction elsewhere? If you’re going to make something up about someone, at least make it something that would be wrong and get him in trouble if it were true!
Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/13/2012 @ 4:57 am“I’m telling!” — 8 year old.
ukuleledave (c59551) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:04 amWhat does making stuff up mean to people who have no concept of objective truth?
The only sure thing is power. Words and argument are for manipulation only. Logic is not binding and is only respected if it serves the pursuit of power.
The enlightenment ideal is long dead. In our world ideas are promoted by deaf repetition and crude insult, and brutal force is an acceptable and effective means of persuasion.
Amphipolis (d3e04f) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:31 amSold her own soul, that one did.
SarahW (b0e533) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:33 amThey attack Patterico at the foundation of his integrity and the weight of his opinion; his position as an ADA in LA. Though he doesn’t opine officially, his “day job” acts as a strong indicator of his integrity, intelligence, experience and education.
Those attributes elevate what he says here and what he chooses to speak about above other bloggers.
In other words: his opinion has weight.
(unlike ms. wheeler. Empty wheel indeed.)
I believe this is the keystone that his enemies would like to see removed so that he would then be brought low and his opinions in the past and the future could be held up to ridicule anytime after as being those of a “failed attorney” “fired from LA” etc. etc.
That’s their goal; to stifle a powerful light shining on their antics.
If cockroaches could organize, the first thing they’d do would cut the lights.
Jcw46 (eda37d) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:43 amMendoucheous twatwaffle. Called it years ago lol
JD (318f81) — 12/13/2012 @ 6:01 amCockroaches don’t know they’re ugly, stink and spread disease. They know what they are.
Why are they willing? Maybe they really think other people are like them, or, in the way of the psychopath, that they are a cut above for not reducing themselves to follow constraints they see the rubes observe.
SarahW (b0e533) — 12/13/2012 @ 6:02 amFunny, that’s what came to mind when I saw her picture.
egd (d580cc) — 12/13/2012 @ 6:03 amShe must be mortified regarding Jim Moran’s son breaking his girlfriend’s face(in front of two police officers), and getting probation.
Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 (721840) — 12/13/2012 @ 6:20 amWait a minute. Suppose you had written what she claims. What would be the big deal? Why would your boss be interested? Since when is there an obligation to report all crimes? Since when is the victim of a crime not entitled to decide not to involve the police, and either to forget it or to seek satisfaction elsewhere? If you’re going to make something up about someone, at least make it something that would be wrong and get him in trouble if it were true!
Exactly!
MayBee (085e06) — 12/13/2012 @ 6:25 ambut now everybody knows what a big fat liar the emptywheel person is
barbara walters would say hey empty arentcha kinda too much of a big fat liar to do the twitters and empty would look down shamefully and mutter about how she’s been working on that
happyfeet (a7fcec) — 12/13/2012 @ 6:33 amI have an opinion on all this. But this post is not about what my opinion might be. It’s about whether Marcy Wheeler is making up the claim that I said Crowder should not report the crime.
She is.
It’s about whether she is making up the claim that I deleted tweets to that effect.
She is.
It’s about whether she is threatening to collect tweets to send to my boss to prove I expressed an opinion I never expressed: that Steve Crowder should not report this crime.
She is.
Whether or not I believe Crowder had an obligation to delay a nationwide story to make an immediate report of a misdemeanor assault is beside the point. I did not say what is claimed and I did not write or delete tweets saying that. And she is claiming i said all this in an exchange WITH HER, which I didn’t.
Meaning she’s making it up.
I want to know why.
Patterico (6e8101) — 12/13/2012 @ 6:41 amComment by ukuleledave (c59551) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:04 am
Comment by Amphipolis (d3e04f) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:31 am
If cockroaches could organize, the first thing they’d do would cut the lights.
Comment by Jcw46 (eda37d) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:43 am
Wonderful comments.
It really sounds like an obnoxious child on the playground telling a lie just to taunt someone who prefers to live in reality. At school you at least have a grown up in charge (at least they used to…theoretically…) to enforce reality. When adults do that and no one is willing to be an outside observer and say, “Nonsense” it is at first just absurd and ridiculous. But then it has the possibility of getting scary, not because any one of these people is to be feared, but because it becomes clear just how thin the veneer of civilization can be.
I grew up thinking that the norm was for common sense and what is right to prevail, and travesties of justice stuck out because they were the exceptions.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 12/13/2012 @ 6:45 amBut if you have a society based on what one can get away with, then we return to the pleas of the psalmist for God to bring justice and to protect, as there is no expectation anyone else will. It is a good thing to place trust in God, but I think most of us are more comfortable with the idea of human agency enforcing a system of adherence to truth.
This “I’m telling on you to your boss” tactic seems coordinated to me. It is just not normal to decide that due to your political disagreement with another blogger that you should try to ruin their life.
I think they hope that by overwhelming an employer’s time with harassment and implied threats they can really silence some folks by making an example of you.
I believe this coordination is why some of those thugs refused to comply with discovery in Aaron’s case.
Yes, exactly. Neal and his friends make a point of having a goal of “trolling” rather than truth.
Dustin (73fead) — 12/13/2012 @ 6:58 amGiven Mary Wheeler’s association with Friedman, etc., my question would be, why would you expect anything but lies and attempts to besmirch your reputation and attack your credibility?
Dana (292dcf) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:04 amCould you imagine being married to that harpy?
It would be X amount of years shelling out to send her to political summer camp, just to avoid her hovering and nagging, punctuated by the annual birthday “surprise” grudge fuck.
I feel sorry for her husband.
papertiger (e55ba0) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:05 amhey where did your yellow go Mr patterico if that’s really you
happyfeet (2a57f1) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:14 amoh you have a different number you must have switchered devices
happyfeet (2a57f1) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:16 amPatterico- I understand, and I’d want to know why.
But it just adds one more level of bafflement to the idea of bringing your boss into it (a common tactic among her friends).
MayBee (085e06) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:18 amLet her come here.
Let her post the screenshots of the tweets I supposedly wrote and deleted.
Seriously, what causes someone to make that kind of thing up?
Comment by Patterico (8b3905) — 12/12/2012 @ 11:05 pm
Except she won’t come here because she is not interested in honest debate. She is not motivated by a need to understand, to clarify, to listen, and certainly not the least bit interested in truth.
What causes someone to make up things like this is a person who is inherently dishonest – so much so that truth is meaningless and frankly, unnecessary. She doesn’t bat an eye at the perpetual lying. Her conscience is so seared, it’s become normalized.
Wheeler, Kimberlin, and friends are on search and destroy missions. Those with the strongest, clearest voices of truth and will be hardest hit. They cannot be allowed to influence others with truth and logic and rational thought.
Dana (292dcf) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:22 amI guess it’s the hash, Happyfeet (6e8101 not the usual one.)
SarahW (b0e533) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:43 amThis is all about being a nuisance. It’s “you besmirched Kimberlin’s reputation, now we’re gonna besmirch yours!” Never mind the slightly important fact that Kimberlin besmirched his own reputation — no outside assistance necessary.
Icy (cf28d4) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:53 amgot it… Change is bewildering for me almost always
happyfeet (2a57f1) — 12/13/2012 @ 8:04 am‘cept that Patterico told us here a couple weeks ago that under the new site contours if it wasn’t yellow it wasn’t him. And he noted that this would be a way to catch people commenting as him who are not him. So he needs to clarify this, I think, even tho #31 definitely sounds like him.
elissa (78afd2) — 12/13/2012 @ 8:17 amThat is a key fascination I have over them, Sarah.
Are they paranoid enough to think their enemies are acting this way, leading to smear reprisals that are the actual instigation? Those who have called Kimberlin a patsy and a victim are evidence that kind of mental illness may be the case.
But mostly I lean towards the alternative. The psychos think they are much more clever than those who bother with morality.
Dustin (73fead) — 12/13/2012 @ 8:21 amMy usual response to stuff like this is “Get a life”. I agree that it’s just weird to want to and try to ruin someone’s life just because they disagree with you.
rochf (f3fbb0) — 12/13/2012 @ 8:33 amIt’s scary to think that Kimberlin’s associates A) Don’t care about what he did; and B) Don’t think he could ever turn and do the same thing to them.
Icy (cf28d4) — 12/13/2012 @ 9:17 amSeems clear that a group or groups of leftist thugs, be they smart, simple-minded, incompetent, deranged, or all of the above, are single-mindedly out to get you, with Alinksy and other lefty tactics, no matter what. They’re doing what leftist thugs have always done and always will.
MikeHs (1a2353) — 12/13/2012 @ 9:37 amTHIS really needs to make the main thread.
Union Thugs Demolish Lansing,Michigan Hot Dog Vendor Clint Tarver’s Equipment, shouting “N*Gger, Uncle Tom”
Yeah, Republicans and Tea Party types are the racists in America….
Smock Puppet, 10th Dan Snark Master and Dietary Regimen Inspector (8e2a3d) — 12/13/2012 @ 9:45 amYeah, but why’s she making up something so innocent and trivial? If you’re going to go to the trouble of lying about someone, at least make it a good lie! If you’re going to falsely accuse them of something, at least make it something that would get them in trouble if it were believed!
Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/13/2012 @ 9:53 amFascists.
Rob Crawford (c55962) — 12/13/2012 @ 9:58 amShe is — she thinks that a staunch Democrat who works hard for the Party (see his recent exposure as someone comfortable with and knowledge of how to commit vote fraud) should be excused any minor transgressions.
Rob Crawford (c55962) — 12/13/2012 @ 10:00 amWere I you, Patterico, I’d have some REALLY GOOD passwords on all my accounts. Imagine these creeps with your twitter password.
Non-standard, but cryptographically correct, info on strong passwords here.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 12/13/2012 @ 10:00 amNor do they consider that someone ELSE could do to THEM what Kimberlin did.
Rob Crawford (c55962) — 12/13/2012 @ 10:01 amThe lie she made up seems to fit perfectly with the lies that other apparent Brad Friedman associates have made up… essentially that Patterico doesn’t really support law enforcement.
Another example is how some of the liars are angry that Patterico didn’t file a police report regarding some anonymous email threats a few bloggers received. It’s a long story and very convoluted (on purpose), but I believe they were hoping that they could out Ace of Spades by getting people to report these threats to police (Ace received some of them). When you read someone saying Patterico didn’t report the swattings, they are actually referring to a snipped and dowdified comment about those emails that was actually written before Patterico was even SWATted. They know they are lying. This is not a case of confusion or paranoia. These people are, in my view, trying to build on the crime that was already committed.
Another of the liars has condemned Patterico for posting blog entries at 9 pm or on Thanksgiving or whenever, saying this is when he’s clocked in and should be working. It’s a stupidly small thing to lie about, but predictable once you understand what they are trying to do.
Take the long view. Conservative bloggers who are truly excellent are usually professionals and they usually have some exposure to liberals (this is why they are more able to engage and understand their arguments). A ton of them went to good law schools or are academics (even though conservatives are a minority in those arenas). These folks are persuasive in a way Let it Burn and Outlaw! and other cheers (that appeal to me) are not persuasive.
It would do a lot of damage to the conservative movement if men and women in liberal fields knew their careers are jeopardized if they blog. It’s not like Patterico actually did anything wrong to incite these bastards. They are trying to make an example out of him and a few other folks.
That’s why they aren’t talking about Patterico’s ideas or responding with ideas, but rather are talking about Patterico’s job in a way designed to send a message to everyone about what might happen. That she’s smearing him is a crucial part of what she needs us to see. Being honest, and merely conveying your conservative views… that’s all it takes to get this kind of harassment.
Dustin (73fead) — 12/13/2012 @ 10:14 amKevin’s advice on passwords is very wise. Keep them long.
But I don’t think serious and specific security tips should be offered in the open.
Dustin (73fead) — 12/13/2012 @ 10:16 amAnyone else note the update over at Insty last night submitted by DRJ (11:08pm)?
Well Done!, DRJ.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 12/13/2012 @ 10:35 amA link to DRJ’s comment at Instapundit’s blog.
I recall other comments from DRJ on there. Not a surprise, as anyone with sense would quickly learn to pay attention to her opinions.
She’s quite right. The excuses being offered to not cover democrat violence are complete contradictions from what the MSM has said in the past. It’s completely dishonest. The truth is that the MSM has an agenda of promoting democrats and denigrating conservatives. That is the rule you can apply for consistent understanding and accurate predictions of future coverage.
Dustin (73fead) — 12/13/2012 @ 10:40 amDon’t these people recall Lara Logan in Cairo, during the Arab Spring demonstrations.
askeptic (b8ab92) — 12/13/2012 @ 10:57 amIt seems to me the excuse from the IslamoFascists was that her mere presence there was a provocation, and our media poohbahs were not pleased by that excuse.
But, I guess it’s different when the victim is a media darling, and when they’re not.
You want to know why – I think her answer would be why not.
Amphipolis (d3e04f) — 12/13/2012 @ 11:11 amTea party goon slugs inquisitive reporter
Tea party mob removes press tent- cuts it to ribbons
Tea party protesters hurl racist epithets against food vendor in press tent, damage his business equipment.
***********
ALL AOK NOW!
SarahW (b0e533) — 12/13/2012 @ 11:20 amWhich it never was and never would be.
SarahW (b0e533) — 12/13/2012 @ 11:21 am“Behold Marcy Wheeler, @emptywheel on Twitter…”
I’m not going to waste a whole lot of time beholding that.
I’ve seen lefties lying their asses off zillions of times.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 12/13/2012 @ 11:46 amThat little girl picture on her Twitter feed is highly misleading. Mrs. Wheeler actually looks a bit like Rosie O’Donnel with greenish yellow teeth.
jasond (ead346) — 12/13/2012 @ 11:50 amSome on the left have issues with personal hygiene. I guess leftist propagandists don’t mind being ugly on the outside as well.
Meaning she’s making it up.
I want to know why.
Another manic-depressive lefty who takes stock of her miserable life and decides that someone other than herself must be blamed for it? Seriously, she appears to be a very disturbed person, just like most of her cohorts in paranoia-land.
JVW (4826a9) — 12/13/2012 @ 12:18 pmThis Marcy Wheeler person must have been bullied or abused quite a bit as a child—there’s definitely a lot of anger and lies on her end.
At least we know that whatever job she attains, it won’t be due to the fact that she’s hired for her physical appearance.
I was just scrolling her kooky Twitter feed, and it reads like something from 2006, at the height of the Iraq War.
Elephant Stone (65d289) — 12/13/2012 @ 12:43 pmShe’s totally obsessed with Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby, rendition, and waterboarding. I’ve heard she’s obsessed with Oxycontin, too, but that’s for another day.
So what does everything else on her website mean?
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 12/13/2012 @ 2:34 pmI want to know why.
You said she’s afriend of Brad Friedman. That would explain it.
The next questions would be:
1) In what way is she a friend of Brad Friedman, and how close? And does this affect everything she does?
2) Why is Brad Friedman so interested in this?
I supppose the most simple answer to question number 2 would be there is paying client involved.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 12/13/2012 @ 2:37 pmComment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/13/2012 @ 4:57 am
If you’re going to make something up about someone, at least make it something that would be wrong and get him in trouble if it were true!
She’s run out of arguments. She’s not interested in Patterico, she’s interested in saying she was not wrong.
To show her dishonest, it would be enough even actually for her just not to correct her website.
To maintain she is honest, she’s got to say there was no crime, since she’s still committed to this “line”.
The best argument she can come up (with Patterico anyway) with for saying there is no crime, is that Patterico, who says there was a crime, didn’t report it (to whom?)
This “proves” Patterico does not believe what he says when he says there was a crime.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 12/13/2012 @ 2:42 pmIt’s not a very strong argument, but it’s the best she’s got.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 12/13/2012 @ 2:48 pmTea party goon slugs inquisitive reporter
Tea party mob removes press tent- cuts it to ribbons
Tea party protesters hurl racist epithets against food vendor in press tent, damage his business equipment.
***********
ALL AOK NOW!
But Sarah, I’ve been to tea party functions, and those old guys are a bit long in the tooth to be hurling or slugging much.
papertiger (e55ba0) — 12/13/2012 @ 3:24 pmGreat news for Moran Jr.! Junior now has authorization to drive his car into an estuary and drown her. Then he can run for President in 12 years after becoming the “Lion of the Senate.”
I wonder if anyone’s warned his GF just how little her life is worth.
Steve57 (25fb74) — 12/13/2012 @ 3:53 pmMy guess is that Marcy is going to keep making that same accusation until people consider it to be a fact. It’s a tactic that works, sadly enough.
Case in point: Many people believe that Markus “Notch” Persson, creator of the computer game Minecraft, is a racist. This belief is based on a screenshot of a tweet that he made, which included the word “nigger.” However, Notch had never made such a tweet; the image was edited so as to look like a screenshot of Notch tweeting the N-word. The actual tweet that he made contained neither the N-word nor any racist sentiment, and, to my recollection, is still in his Twitter history.
However, there are many gamers who will, to this day, insist that Notch made that tweet and is an outspoken racist. It’s a lie, but a firmly-believed and oft-repeated one — mostly believed because of the scandal the faked screenshot made at the time. It was a lie, but it was a loudly and repeatedly broadcast one.
I think Marcy Wheeler is trying to do the same thing: She probably knows that what she’s saying isn’t true, but if she repeats it enough times, people will accept it as fact without questioning it or seeking evidence to support it. The lesson here is that if you tell a lie long enough and loudly enough, people will believe it. I believe that’s a quote from somebody, actually. Can’t remember the name.
somebody (029518) — 12/13/2012 @ 4:05 pmWell consider how Mitt’s mostly correct statement about GM offshoring to China, is counted as ‘the biggest lie of the year’ but the notion that Romney
narciso (ee31f1) — 12/13/2012 @ 4:14 pmallowed an employee’s wife to get cancer, is considered par for the coure,
Goebbels.
nk (875f57) — 12/13/2012 @ 4:15 pmApart from Marcy Wheeler’s verbal manipulations and false assertions that Patterico evidences in this post, I have given Crowder’s response to the incident a bit of thought today.
It troubled me from the get-go that he did not immediately contact law enforcement. It would have been advantageous to on a number of levels. One being that he could have pointed out right then and there culprit who punched him. He could have also identified first-hand witnesses to the event.
Secondly, by immediately reporting the incident, Crowder would have also signaled to the hardcore union thugs that he would not take this lightly, but would seek to prevent the man who hit him to face serious consequences for his lack of self-control and attempts to stifle another’s free speech.
Thirdly, I believe the event would demand to be taken more seriously by filing charges. Challenging him to a duel has a theatrical feel to it and plays right into the hands of the left and the media who look for every opening to make the right look foolish and buffoonish. Why give them that?
Be serious, be unwavering in the stand to deny thugs any leeway to assault or to suppress the right to vehemently disagree.
Mostly, I find Crowder’s reaction lacking foresight, seriousness and a consideration of unintended consequences. He was clearly assaulted, with utter brazenness. In broad daylight. I think he owes it to the citizenry and to those fighting on the front lines against the thuggishness of people like the union members to set the standard.
If you think I’m off the mark, convince me otherwise.
Dana (292dcf) — 12/13/2012 @ 4:52 pmForgive me if my knowledge is faulty, but isn’t it true that Crowder was attacked moments before the tent was torn down?
That the subsequent time was spent trying to extricate people from the wrecked tent?
In the immediate aftermath, Crowder may have had other things on his mind than hunting down LEO to accuse his assailant.
Pious Agnostic (20c167) — 12/13/2012 @ 4:59 pmPious Agnostic,
“Immediately” being when it was safe to do so, of course. I should have been more accurate with my wording. Thank you. Also, he clearly had the time to think about his next steps in response, so perhaps in that time, he could shave contacted LEA.
Dana (292dcf) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:07 pmMy thoughts correspond with yours for the most part on this, Dana. I consider this assault to be serious business and so I particularly don’t like the side show aspects of him going on air and challenging the thug to a one-on-one fight like it’s a schoolyard kerfuffle of some kind. It’s not a schoolyard kerfuffle.
elissa (78afd2) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:08 pmMaybe he remembers how local law enforcement behaved in Wisconsin, you remember the siege of Madison,
narciso (ee31f1) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:12 pmDana, the consequences aren’t unintended in terms of the media boycott. The MFM would have ignored the story no matter what Crowder did.
The same MFM that creates excuses such as Crowder acted buffoonishly (by calling the punk out) and that Crowder misleadingly edited the tape is also quite capable of calling any charges Crowder filed either trumped up or outright false.
If Crowder hadn’t called attention to the incident the MFM would have simply said they weren’t aware of the minor assault. Since Crowder did call attention to it they say they don’t provide attention to shameless media whores. (So what are all those cameras and mikes doing at Schumer’s pressers?)
It isn’t just that Crowder works for Fox. During the height of the Occupy MFM frenzy the MFM proved quite capable of ignoring attacks on reporters from their own affiliates in locations such as Portland and Oakland.
Because the MFM was pushing a narrative romanticizing the occupyers and it didn’t fit the narrative to report one of their angels sic’d a pit bull on a local reporter.
Steve57 (25fb74) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:18 pmWe all know Lefties
Colonel Haiku (9ae6e6) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:19 pmdo not embarrass easy
even caught in lies
YouTube is not my friend, these days. I cannot find the scene from “Hannibal”, where a hired gypsy pickpocket tries to steal Lecter’s wallet and Lecter rips his belly open and then keeps walking on casually.
nk (875f57) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:20 pmI have seen that face
Colonel Haiku (9ae6e6) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:22 pmevil Margaret Wade on
Dennis teh Menace
The MFM are meningless. Crowder is MFM, for crying out loud.
Fight on the spot,
nk (875f57) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:23 pmgo to the cops,
or shut up.
ever seen these two in same place/same time?
http://allisonkilkenny.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/a999marcywheeler_2050081722-31814.jpg
http://www.livinglegendsltd.com/Dennis.JPG
Colonel Haiku (9ae6e6) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:23 pmKilkenny, she was one of the ones, who came up with those crazy claims about Sarah, that Matt Damon bought ‘hook line and sinker’
narciso (ee31f1) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:26 pmI’ll cut Crowder slack because he was the one there, apparently putting his safety on the line, getting his tooth broken, etc, but I think Dana is correct that it would be better to press charges against this guy than to make a funny challenge to step into the ring.
But nobody’s perfect. I just think people who cross the line should pay the price.
Dustin (73fead) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:37 pmI think Crowder was channeling Andy Kaufman.
SPQR (768505) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:42 pmDana – I think you’re off the mark I guess,
not the least because there may well be a report by now
there were not cops nearby, they were far away and arguably, based on other situations, not inclined to see or intervene or assist
Id and establishing the video probably a smarter way to go if charges are going to be filed, anyway
and filing charges might not be his first choice.
If a cop saw that, and did nothing, the cop is culpable, but Crowder is not. One has a duty, the other an option.
SarahW (b0e533) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:43 pmI think that Crowder is looking for a little payback, and I don’t blame him one bit. After all, he knows the punk would most likely only receive probation and/or community service for the assault. Crowder knows that he himself can better see that the appropriate level of justice and punishment is meted out if he does it himself.
peedoffamerican (ee1de0) — 12/13/2012 @ 5:52 pmI believe the union members were serious and sought not only to shut Crowder up, but to also intimidate those nearby who may have been considering voicing their solidarity with RTW. They are not ashamed of their behavior, nor frightened at all, so why not let them face legal consequences as a reminder that they are not above the law and intimidation and assault will not be tolerated. This is about more than one man wanting payback.
Dana (292dcf) — 12/13/2012 @ 6:26 pmIt’s over.
There is no name, no address, no identification, for the perp.
nk (875f57) — 12/13/2012 @ 6:40 pmNo, really, the other name is in the link
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/12/union-thug-who-beat-steven-crowder-ided-his-name-is-tony-cummings-video/
narciso (ee31f1) — 12/13/2012 @ 6:44 pmAnd don’t think that video is automatically introduced into evidence or that it automatically overrides reasonable doubt.
nk (875f57) — 12/13/2012 @ 6:44 pmThank you, narciso.
IBEW, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, is very big in the Chicago area. It is a closed shop. You have to have union training. Apprentice, journeyman. Boss, you cannot touch a tool.
nk (875f57) — 12/13/2012 @ 6:50 pmIt’s over.
There is no name, no address, no identification, for the perp.
There is video evidence, and it seems that Mr Camargo’s name was on his IBEW jacket.
JD (9adec8) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:01 pmBalko gave Marcy props on the twitters.
JD (9adec8) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:07 pmIt’s like staring into the ‘bearded spock’ universe,
narciso (ee31f1) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:12 pmNK,
If I may add an addendum to our earlier comments about film noir and “Out of the Past,” you might be interested in the annual film noir festival that is usually held the first couple of weeks of April at the famous Egyptian Theatre in Hollywood. It is programmed by a noir historian by the name of Eddie Mueller, and often he will conduct a panel discussion with people who were involved in the films (few and far between, as the years go by). Obviously, you live in Chicago, but if you’re into noir, it might be worth a long four day weekend trip some year. Your jaw might drop if I told you some of the names of the people one might find himself sitting next to in the theatre.
Elephant Stone (65d289) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:15 pmAccording to her site’s “About” page:
Rugby is a hard contact sport, played without helmets. It is possible that this explains a great deal about our host’s stalker.
The Dana who looked it up! (f68855) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:18 pmShe’s a wall that keeps back water when you build below sea-level, Dana.
nk (875f57) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:30 pmHer “husband” is likely the same, or a firestick.
nk (875f57) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:35 pmComment by narciso (ee31f1) — 12/13/2012 @ 4:14 pm
The main reason to make a pretense of being “objective” for some part of the year is to have some credibility with the low-info crowd when one names the winner of “the lie of the year”, or “the biggest spin of the year”.
Maybe we should give the biggest lying liar of the year award to the most dishonest “fact checker”.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 12/13/2012 @ 7:36 pmYeah, I saw that.
A lot of this is based on a NYT blog post that claims the guy was “knocked” down.
How they know he didn’t end up on the ground because he swung at Crowder and missed, I have no idea.
I do know that, when the guy was on the ground, Crowder was already saying “he assaulted me” and holding up his hands to show he hadn’t done anything to the guy to cause him to be on the ground.
As for immediately reporting the cops, he is heard on the video saying “where the f*** are the cops” and he said in an interview that none were to be found. And that when he went looking for one, he was surrounded by union thugs.
Somebody tell Marcy “350 cops were RIGHT THERE!!!1!!” Wheeler.
The person who said I deleted tweets I never wrote.
Patterico (8b3905) — 12/13/2012 @ 8:29 pmAs for immediately reporting the cops, he is heard on the video saying “where the f*** are the cops” and he said in an interview that none were to be found. And that when he went looking for one, he was surrounded by union thugs.
Patterico,
Does it strike you as odd or do you believe it understandable that (as far as we know) he still hasn’t filed a report or pressed charges?
Dana (292dcf) — 12/13/2012 @ 8:34 pmDoes it strike you as odd or do you believe it understandable that (as far as we know) he still hasn’t filed a report or pressed charges?
Gateway Pundit said he has now filed a report.
JD (9adec8) — 12/13/2012 @ 8:36 pmOops, AFP filed a report.
JD (9adec8) — 12/13/2012 @ 8:38 pmYou notice a pattern, when O’Keefe was detained, down in ChinaTown, I mean N’Orlins,while they created a story of a ‘watergate’ type event, how a whole new narrative was created for Zimmerman,
narciso (ee31f1) — 12/13/2012 @ 8:52 pmThis is just interesting. The man yelling expletives and ranting away at Mr. Crowder is named Wheeler Marsee. The lady ranting and lying about Mr. Patterico is named Marcy Wheeler.
Chants (1bae7e) — 12/14/2012 @ 7:11 amEvery time I follow a link to one of your posts, I find the first comment is something like this. Why do you do that?
McGehee (4073bd) — 12/14/2012 @ 7:16 amnk: That she’s “a wall that keeps back water when you build below sea-level” means nothing to me. I was simply noting, as someone once famously did about Gerald Ford, that she played rugby too long without a helmet.
Remember when a concussion was just “getting your bell rung?”
The amused Dana (3e4784) — 12/14/2012 @ 7:16 amMost of us having a conversation keep an eye on the upper right section of the blog that shows recent comments. Patterico alerts the readers to a new thread with a new comment. ‘Ding’ is like a new order of blogging being served up.
Dustin (73fead) — 12/14/2012 @ 7:23 am“Does it strike you as odd or do you believe it understandable that (as far as we know) he still hasn’t filed a report or pressed charges?
Comment by Dana (292dcf) — 12/13/2012 @ 8:34 pm”
What I find odd is that the police haven’t just gone out and arrested Tony Carmago. The state, not individual citizens, have the ultimate authority, duty, and discretion to “press charges”.
Chants (1bae7e) — 12/14/2012 @ 7:33 amChants is right. Everyone knows what Mr Carmago did. The police do not need anyone’s permission to arrest him. What are they waiting for? They don’t need to put him in prison for years to send a message that violence at protests is totally unacceptable. They are actually making their own jobs a lot harder.
Dustin (73fead) — 12/14/2012 @ 7:37 amWhen a subway surveillance video shows what appears to be someone getting abducted, the NYPD doesn’t wait for a victim to come forward before investigating.
I can’t imagine under any other circumstances the left making a big deal out of how long it took someone to file a report as an excuse to blame the victim.
When it was Anita whatshername and her never-reported allegations of sexual harassment against Clarence Thomas the “I believe Anita” crowd didn’t let that fact get in the way of making her a heroine.
Steve57 (25fb74) — 12/14/2012 @ 7:49 am