Patterico's Pontifications

12/8/2012

Energy Costs Will Necessarily Skyrocket

Filed under: General — JD @ 6:10 pm

[Guest post by JD]

It is the stated goal of the Left. Dems tend to not state this clearly, and allow the MFM to provide cover for them. But, Barack Obama quite explicitly stated that energy costs would necessarily skyrocket under his energy plans, and here Chris Hayes and his nodding panel make the case for doing so quite clearly.

They want to charge for carbon to drive up costs of fossil fuels to in excess of $8 per gallon so then, and only then, algae and wind and other not-efficient renewables have a chance to be competitive.

–JD

57 Responses to “Energy Costs Will Necessarily Skyrocket”

  1. It is prolly racist to point out the disastrous effects of Obama’s stated goals.

    JD (318f81)

  2. This is the part I don’t get.

    I can understand the left thinking they can spend and spend and somehow there won’t be any negative results.

    How do they justify increasing energy costs though? These costs will hit the lower middle and lower income classes far more than the upper middle and upper classes.

    Besides the economic damage they will do the increased energy costs will directly affect those least able to survive them.

    How do they justify this? How did so many vote for this sort of policy? Or do they think that LIHEAP will keep it from affecting them?

    LIHEAP isn’t that much and it’s a payment dictated not by how large your heating bill is but how much income you have available. Plus it’s not indexed for inflation (I believe) and I don’t see the House voting to increase it.

    And besides they only subsidize the heating bill. That does nothing for anyone’s electric bill.

    I don’t understand what Democrats gain by doing this.

    Jcw46 (eda37d)

  3. Some promises he does keep, to the San Francisco editorial board, for instance,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  4. Even at 8$ a gallon, wind and solar still can’t compete. The only way this works is if every industry in the US collapses which this policy will make happen sooner.

    Liberals don’t seem to understand that you can’t legislate away physics.

    Jcw46 (eda37d)

  5. Jcw – control and dependency.

    JD (318f81)

  6. See, that’s what I get about the entitlement bit.

    This with energy does not play into that.

    They will either have to try and get more money to subsidize energy for the “Poor” or they’ll be exposed as the chiselers that they are or uncaring.

    This doesn’t hurt Obama but it will hurt the Democrats. I think even some of them are getting antsy about this.

    It helps NO one. Not even their green buddies as they can’t keep having these bankruptcies as even the most dim will begin to figure it out.

    Jcw46 (eda37d)

  7. My favorite is when they blame the evil energy producers for increases in prices, when they go all populist and get their outrage on. Especially when their actions, regulations, and agendas were the cause of the increases.

    JD (318f81)

  8. Jcw–

    Wind is a tax dodge and always has been. It will never, ever be competitive and large-scale wind farms (large enough to make an economic difference) are environmentally disruptive. Algae and garbage and geothermal and such are fairy tales told to innumerate greens.

    Solar can compete for electricity in some areas. In Buffalo, no. In Phoenix, yes. In Hawaii it’s all over the place. It depends on the alternatives.

    Like it or not, coal is over. Fewer coal plants, fewer coal mines, no new ones.

    But the real deal when it comes to fixed locations, both electric and heat, is natural gas. With fracking it displaces everything else. and will drive the cost down over time (to the point where solar needs much cheaper installation costs to compete and everything else is dead).

    Of course, they want to kill fracking.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  9. JD–

    In California, they require refineries to change over their mix every season, and then they attack the evil oil companies for coordinating their shutdowns to raise prices.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  10. The basic fact is that environmentalism is a religion. Did the crusaders worry about how they were going to get home after they took Jerusalem ? Of course not. God would provide. In this case Gaia will provide.

    Mike_K (5552a4)

  11. As if you weren’t depressed enough ’bout Johnny not being able to cipher, Byron can’t either:

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/how-gop-can-turn-the-tables-on-obama-on-spending/article/2514983#.UL3K04NZWgv

    “We need $4 Trillion over the next decade to stabilize the debt”.

    Boys, for fiscal 2013, we are already $300 Billion behind. The proposed torniquet leaves us more than $1 Trillion short every year.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  12. On of McCain’s more sensible campaign advisors, sheesh, ‘am I the only one not on crazy pills’

    narciso (ee31f1)

  13. My county just got two windfarms approved by the State, et al., 40 MW, approaching an hour North of me.

    GLWT.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  14. The science is settled, you RAAAAAACIST DENIERS!!!!!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  15. coal to liquids is still in the mix i think

    happyfeet (2fd4dc)

  16. Someone will have to consult Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals to see if there’s any chapter and verse regarding energy consumption. Perhaps John Favreau or whomever else had a hand in penning Obama’s The Audacity of Hope may have mentioned how high energy prices fits into the progressive wet dream.
    But my initial assessment is that it fuels resentment among the lower and “middle” classes toward “Big Oil” and the utility companies, because they are the ones who feel the most adverse effects of raised energy prices, particularly at the gas pump and at the grocery store, where food prices will be greatly affected by higher transportation costs.
    Nevermind that the government forces higher prices through regulatory practices—the lower classes and many working middle class people don’t pay attention to those details any more than they care about Fast & Furious, Benghazi, or any of the 5,001 hard left wing connections in Obama’s background.

    That resentment toward Oil and utilities elicits “a grassroots demand !” for more regulatory practices by the Saviors known as the Federal Government.

    I think the lefties seriously want to keep the lower classes and working middle classes angry at Big Oil, Big Business, Wall Street, rich guys, capitalists, and your Uncle Fred who owns a vacation home overlooking a lake, because it is fuel for phony populist anger that the Democrats are famous for, but even more importantly, the lefties don’t want the lower classes and working middle classes to climb the proverbial ladder and improve their lot in life who invest and make profits—because they’re more likely to become Republicans if they have property and investments and a portfolio to protect.

    There were two winning tickets for the Powerball Lottery that was up to something like $575 million dollars a couple weeks ago. There was a winning ticket in Arizona, and a winning ticket in Missouri.
    In one of his monologues, Jay Leno said, “In other words, the two winners will now be known as, former Democrats.’

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  17. If only we could somehow capture all the hot air coming out of Congress and the White House, we’d have our energy problems solved for eternity.

    navyvet (02dd07)

  18. coal to liquids is still in the mix i think

    against free natural gas?

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  19. Besides the economic damage they will do the increased energy costs will directly affect those least able to survive them.

    How do they justify this?

    Justify it? With all these people to kill, who needs to justify it?
    Good riddance to tax eaters is a feature.

    papertiger (e55ba0)

  20. They understand economics about as well as Obama. Nada.

    pat (75b00c)

  21. Even though I am a natural gardner, using, worm castings, bat guano, sea grass, kelp, and other natural substances. I am considering burning creosote rail road ties and rubber tires to heat my house! I hope Alabama leaves the union.

    mg (31009b)

  22. http://www.wyomingbusinessreport.com/article.asp?id=63821

    I’m just saying coal 2 liquids is still a thing is all… No idea how much sense it makes on a large scale but it seems to have a niche out there

    happyfeet (2fd4dc)

  23. he’s such a dick

    happyfeet (2fd4dc)

  24. 10 Coal-fired power stations are shutting down, 4 serving PA alone.

    Rolling brownouts in good weather eh?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  25. It would take 67 pairs of local nesting golden eagles to produce enough young to compensate for the mortality rate related to wind energy production. Death Count 67 a year for 3 decades. On my farm in Mn. I see the bat population decreasing because of these contraptions.

    Could a rhino mention this and be the first to address it?
    If it were an oil spill 1 sea bird would become a republican issue.

    mg (31009b)

  26. The eagle issue is on Altamont pass in Cal.

    mg (31009b)

  27. All of you tree-hugging hippies talking about birds flying into windmills — you should just pass the pipe and chillax, man!

    Icy (9130b6)

  28. Just in case you were thinking America is in decline, its just our rich.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/100289964

    A trailer park is a step up.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/100286028

    I could take in laundry.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  29. Meanwhile, China is buying up land in Australia for — wait for it . . .
    Shenhua Watermark, a subsidiary of state-owned China Shenhua Energy, the world’s biggest coal mining company, spent 167 million Australian dollars (more than $170 million) to buy 43 farms covering 36,300 acres.

    Icy (9130b6)

  30. Also new to my county, just now in full operation, a megaEthanolplant. The rails are now rerouted and a 100 new grain cars filling a half-dozen NASA worth bins.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  31. So, If Chris Hayes’ solution is to increase the price of cheap available energy in order to make expensive and less consistently available energy competitive, why aren’t we redistributing points this weekend from winning teams (football, basketball, etc.) to also make those less productive teams competitive?

    As we all know Hayes’ and his ilk [i.e., Obama] are more than willing to sacrifice the economy and health of our nation on an altar of utopian ideology.

    T (86cbe8)

  32. Icy, I am no tree hugger, but the golden eagle means more to me than some m.f. windmill.

    mg (31009b)

  33. Comment by T (86cbe8) — 12/9/2012 @ 8:25 am

    why aren’t we redistributing points this weekend from winning teams (football, basketball, etc.) to also make those less productive teams competitive? </I.

    Because football and basketball are not golf.

    But there's always the points spread.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  34. “Icy, I am no tree hugger, but the golden eagle means more to me than some m.f. windmill.”

    mg – How’s that wind farm coming off Hyannis? Are the hypocritical nimby’s still stalling on that?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  35. 4. Liberals don’t seem to understand that you can’t legislate away physics.

    Comment by Jcw46 (eda37d) — 12/8/2012 @ 6:23 pm

    Their policies are driven by blind hatred, not understanding.

    Once you understand you’re dealing with the hate-America-firsters then all becomes clear. From their dismissal of the events of Benghazi to their rage that somewhere somehow public school children might attend a Charlie Brown Christmas play that a church might have been peripherally involved with.

    10.The basic fact is that environmentalism is a religion. Did the crusaders worry about how they were going to get home after they took Jerusalem ? Of course not. God would provide. In this case Gaia will provide.

    Comment by Mike_K (5552a4) — 12/8/2012 @ 7:05 pm

    Actually they did. They contracted with the various Italian city states like Genoa and Pisa for transportation in their fleets, which wanted trading rights in return in whatever territories the crusaders conquered.

    Of course there was always the option of walking to and fro. You’ve got to keep in mind that the germ of the idea of retaking the holy land (I’ll apologize for the Crusades just after the Muslims apologize for Jihad) had formed in Pope Urban’s mind but didn’t come to fruition until emmissaries from the Byzantine empire asked for the help.

    I just thought I’d roger up and point out that not even in the “dark age” could you find idgits like modern libtards.

    Steve57 (d941b2)

  36. Rising energy costs are very regressive. Once again, Democrats policies hurt the poor the most.

    SPQR (768505)

  37. daleyrocks- On my farm in Mn. I can count 150 windmills. Complete f ing eyesores on the prairie. I refused to have them on my property. I have a small windmill that pumps water and runs the electricity in the barns. Thats called common sense on this farm.
    As for the Nantucket Sound, don’t care, I’m out of here next year. Had enough of the insanity. In 17 years I voted in every election, I voted for winners twice. Mitt for gov. And Benedict Brown in “The Peoples Seat” election. The mass-hole motto do as I say not as I do.

    mg (31009b)

  38. An unholy alliance of liberals and crony capitalists — mainly agribusinesses based in the Midwest — have already gotten their greedy hands wrapped around the industry of ethanol, which has pushed up the cost of corn and, in turn, the food chain (eg, livestock that’s fed corn) in general.

    But how bad does the cost of things — including gasoline and groceries — have to become before the left or its squishy adherents (ie, “independents”) cry “uncle!”? Well, keep in mind the absurdly high price of fuel in Europe (going back decades due mainly to consumption taxes), the ridiculously high price of maintaining a residence in the Northeast due to extortion-level property taxes, people in Argentina tolerating a government that forbids the publishing of actual inflation figures.

    They say that liberalism is a mental disorder. I don’t think that’s necessarily a quip or sarcasm.

    Mark (1fb6a7)

  39. Speaking of re-distribution, Obama should have been first in line to re-distribute some of his votes to Romney.

    Maybe Obama could consider re-distributing his cross-the-globe vacation to Oahu to one of those saintly “middle class families” he keeps slobbering on and on about.
    Obama could trade vacations with them—the Joneses would take a first class commercial flight to Oahu, while the Obamas would then take Air Force One down to Orlando and visit DisneyWorld, where they could stay at a Motel 6 or Super 8.
    The Obama girls could each get the Mickey Mouse hat ears, with their names stitched on them.

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  40. Another wrinkle is the EPA’s insistence that the percentage of ethanol in gasoline be increased: E-15!
    One good bit of news for all those K-Street lawyers and lobbyists:
    Their Porsches made since 2001(?) will not be affected.
    This will, in millions of older cars, cause catastrophic failures in the fuel delivery systems resulting in repair costs that may/will exceed the value of the vehicles.
    All part and parcel of the goal to reduce the number of privately owned motor-vehicles in the U.S. fleet, and to force people into public-transportation, whether it is available or not.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  41. 7.My favorite is when they blame the evil energy producers for increases in prices, when they go all populist and get their outrage on. Especially when their actions, regulations, and agendas were the cause of the increases.

    Amen

    EPWJ (c5f1fc)

  42. There are Silver Linings…..
    http://www.ocregister.com/news/gun-379702-year-guns.html

    askeptic (2bb434)

  43. All of you tree-hugging hippies talking about birds flying into windmills — you should just pass the pipe and chillax, man!

    One word: cats.

    But if you have enough windmills to power, say, southern California, you will rather noticeably affect wind patterns.

    I also note that an LA state college campus decided to “go green” and erect windmills. Problem was: no wind. Just not a windy area. But the committee wasn’t interested in such bourgeois questions. It was about being green.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  44. This will, in millions of older cars, cause catastrophic failures in the fuel delivery systems resulting in repair costs that may/will exceed the value of the vehicles.
    All part and parcel of the goal to reduce the number of privately owned motor-vehicles in the U.S. fleet, and to force people into public-transportation, whether it is available or not.

    More likely the plot is to drive up sales of Government Motors.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  45. Oh, all you moderate Republicans, added to the realization you lost the old white folk, you were skunked with the godless:

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/12/09/166753248/add-this-group-to-obamas-winning-coalition-religiously-unaffiliated

    You’ve got woik to do.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  46. Comment by Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 12/9/2012 @ 1:37 pm

    Might not do any good.
    The Judge in the Managed Bankruptcy finally was told all of the details of that case, particularly how non-UAW workers at Delphi got stiffed for the benefit of their UAW breathern. He is not happy, and could possibly nullify the BK, and force all the parties back into his courtroom.
    It appears there just might be at least “One Good Man” after all.

    askeptic (2bb434)

  47. gary gulrud – Given that the Democrats have most of the racists and race pimps these days, old white male is the new black.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  48. Oh, all you moderate Republicans, added to the realization you lost the old white folk, you were skunked with the godless:

    Only because of the company we keep.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  49. 49. So that’s why my back is sore. Thought it might’ve been the 15 inches of snow.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  50. #49 — smokers will be so relieved.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  51. “Oh, all you moderate Republicans, added to the realization you lost the old white folk, you were skunked with the godless”

    gary – Just means Republicans need to stop nominating right wing extremists like McCain and Romney, I guess, especially with all hindsight heroism going on about immigration policy and social conservatism.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  52. I see the strategy session the Obama administration had with their MFM propagandists is already paying off. Because what these Democratic operatives were talking about on MSNBC is already in the works.

    http://www.redstate.com/2012/12/08/is-there-a-carbon-tax-in-your-future/

    ■In 2010, the Treasury Department commissioned a National Academy of Science study of the best ways to “green” the tax code. The report was originally due in September, but an extension has been granted until early 2013.
    ■International banking and financial services giant HSBC Holdings Plc expects the Obama Administration to implement a $20/ton carbon tax (plus 6% per year increase) in its second term, to serve as “revenue enhancement” and as a replacement for the ill-fated Cap-and-Trade scheme.
    ■The Treasury Department’s Office of Environment and Energy has given the Heisman treatment to a Freedom of Information Act request from the Competitive Enterprise Institute for its emails and economic analysis relative to carbon tax proposals. CEI has filed suit in an effort to compel disclosure.
    ■Last but not least, the idea of a carbon tax has been embraced by the unlikeliest suspects: ExxonMobil, BP and Shell.

    Steve57 (d941b2)

  53. Remember when a week back the Market sent the ‘price to yield ratio’ of 10-year’s negative, some said ’twas because December is always a strong month for bonds and it was to increase supply making old issues tempting?

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-11/weak-3-year-aution-sees-lowest-indirect-take-down-2007-despite-record-low-yield

    70% of Debt is currently short term maturities. The Fed is buying all the long term maturities to goose interest in the short term issues.

    Hmmmm.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  54. The thing I can’t figure out is: when gas in the USA costs $8/gal, and $3 in Canada and Mexico and the rest of the world, who thinks that there’ll be enough people in the USA who can afford $8/gal gas?

    Oh – I guess that’ll work too – if you price even Green energy sufficiently high enough, people will go back to bicycles, horse&buggy, and moving out of country. The energy-consumption problem will be solved either way they look at it.

    Ken (efde53)

  55. The thing I can’t figure out is: when gas in the USA costs $8/gal, and $3 in Canada and Mexico and the rest of the world,

    Where in the rest of the world does it cost less than $8/gal?

    Milhouse (15b6fd)


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