Patterico's Pontifications

12/5/2012

Not Dead Yet

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:24 pm

Just really, really, really busy at work.

Consider this an open thread.

221 Responses to “Not Dead Yet”

  1. Get with the times, Patterico. The correct title should be “I ATE’NT DEAD“.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  2. Milhouse (15b6fd)

  3. I guess img isn’t allowed. Here, then

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  4. Well, our institutions are pining for the fjords with the Democrats trying to drive the car into the ditch to show Dad that they won’t be ignored.

    Like a teenage girl.

    SPQR (768505)

  5. Other than getting much better press, did Obama do anything better with the damage from Sandy than Bush did with Katrina?

    I want to know.

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  6. AZ Bob, not a thing. FEMA is behaving just as badly. Heck, they don’t even have the amount of blocked roads to blame for the poor delivery of needed supplies and temp housing.

    SPQR (768505)

  7. SF: “He’s saying, quite truthfully, that it doesn’t solve the entire deficit reduction”

    Daleyrocks:

    No, he said Boehner’s $800 billion of revenue math did not work, while he proposed to find $1.2 trillion the prior year via the same methodology.

    What is this?

    What I am saying is that Obama is pretending the tax increase on the top two brackets is a vital ingredient of any deficit reduction plan.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  8. A comment on an earlier thread got me thinking about the likelyhood of adding States to the Union.

    I know there are large geopolitical reasons why we haven’t added any states since AK and HI.

    But are there any constitutional impediments to adding new states? Say that someplace like the Bahamas wanted to join (and Great Britain was cool with that). Or some tidy leetle West African nation who got their political act together and petitioned for union.

    What would happen? Who would support them? Who would be against them? Think they’d need to join in pairs, a Red state and a Blue state?

    Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b)

  9. I don’t understand all of the headlines about the possibility that the Syrian government will use poison gas on its people. Haven’t we been reassured that there were no WMD’s in the area. I guess this time the press is believing the lies from the intelligence agencies.
    (yes, this is sarcasm)

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  10. Couple of useful infographs via zerohedge:

    First major currency reserves worldwide in a nifty timeslice pie chart:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-05/visualizing-worlds-shifting-fx-reserves

    Second a log scale chart of anglosphere central bank growth:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2012/11-2/Evolution-of-Central-Banks-of-Issue-Final.png

    Greece has entered default status one more time. Argentina getting very jealous.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  11. 9. Ours and their people died and BootBlack lied.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  12. So what do the Clintons do when Mooch wants the kleptocracy’s titular throne of Empress in 2016?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  13. 12. LeninWannabe: We’re on our way back. We’re out of the ditch. Ooops, in again, on the other side, so sorry.

    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/12/deflationary-trends-in-consumer-credit.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MishsGlobalEconomicTrendAnalysis+%28Mish%27s+Global+Economic+Trend+Analysis%29

    You ‘effed up, you trusted me.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  14. gary, re your 8:08am chart link: student loan debt is skyrocketing because young people with no job prospects are hiding from the economy in college. the result is massive amounts of student borrowing for school costs and living expenses that many will never recoup – believing the lies/stupidity of college advisors.

    And that debt is largely undischargeable.

    Obama is screwing over several generations at once.

    SPQR (83d044)

  15. believing the lies/stupidity of college advisors.

    Talk about greed and the arrogant elite. Most colleges throughout America are raking in more money today than ever before. Most staffers, including professors, in the typical university are rock-ribbed liberals.

    Limousine or latte liberalism is alive and well in a part of society that truly is having a field day in taking advantage of the naivete and gullibility of the average person.

    Mark (56b304)

  16. “What is this?

    What I am saying is that Obama is pretending the tax increase on the top two brackets is a vital ingredient of any deficit reduction plan.”

    Sammy – If you do not understand Boehner’s proposal and Obama’s criticism of it, please have the courtesy not to respond to my comment.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  17. I once again salute the courage of Harry Reid in not allowing a vote in the Senate on the Obama/Geithner fiscal cliff plan.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  18. This did not happen – Obama speaks glowingly of Arab Fall pro-democracy protests in
    Egypt.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  19. Message Subject: Election of Speaker of the House 113th Congress
    Message Text:
    Honorable Representative, Michele Bachmann: While the House has passed a budget, many of its majority are eager to keep the ‘Bush Tax Cuts’ in place, especially considering the deleterious economic effect of tax increases already in place under the Healthcare Reform Act(sic). I am unclear re: the verifiability of the $500 Billion cut from Medicare by that plan, and any cuts proposed by our current Executive. That being said the sequestered monies already agreed to are euphemistically called cuts, rather they are, to my understanding, reductions in growth only. I do not regard any cuts proposed by any of the current negotiators as sufficient. Should we end with a worse agreement in this regard, reduction in Federal spending, than those already agreed to I will consider the eventuality a egregious failure on the majority’s part. In that event I would rather the office of Speaker remain open than be held by its current incumbent. Sincerely, Gary Lee Gulrud

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  20. Comment by Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 12/6/2012 @ 4:43 am

    As the handle has been pulled, and we’re circling the drain, why would any sentient being advocate that their little part of the world should become part of the United Disfunctional States of America?

    Now that Ottawa has replaced the Libs with some form of a conservative party, the talk in the Maritimes, Plains, and B.C. about breaking-off and joining Estados Unidos has subsided.
    Even Mexico has a better looking (on paper) economy now with some pretty impressive growth and UE numbers. So good, that many of their “citizens” are exercising their “right of return” from El Norte since jobs have become difficult to find.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  21. Comment by Mark (56b304) — 12/6/2012 @ 9:03 am

    Raise the taxes on those evil academic 1%!

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  22. Comment by gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 12/6/2012 @ 9:40 am

    Many have (particularly Yours Truly), for a very long time, advocated the repeal of the Budget Act of 1974, as the only way to rid us of “Base Line Budgeting” and to make the budget process one of honesty and practicality.
    As long as the Congress, and the Bureaucracy, can depend on automatic increases in expenditure levels, that honesty will escape us, and the descent into insolvency will accelerate.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  23. Jim DeMint is leaving the Senate to head up the Heritage Foundation. Poses an interesting question: will he be more valuable to the conservative movement as a promulgator of ideas at Heritage than he would have been as a Senator (i.e. as a conservative vote)?

    Leviticus (1aca67)

  24. 24. “more valuable to the conservative movement as a promulgator of ideas at Heritage than he would have been as a Senator”

    That’ll be my gist in an email to my niece at Heritage. Partly just my wishcasting since his reputation is more conservative than Heritage’s.

    FreedomWorks loses Armey and Heritage gains DeMint. A two-fer!

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  25. I was surprised to hear Jim DiMint is leaving the Senate. This would indicate he really doesn’t care about the issues.

    This is good for the Senate but bad for the Heritage Foundation.

    I didn’t (don’t) like him. So why should I think he cares about his issues? I don’t know.

    I suppose this means that immigration law changes have a better chance – also this may marginally help Lindsay Graham get re-elected, as whoever might be the strongest candidate against him now has a different way to get into the Senate.

    He had 4 more years to go in his term. Most people who aspire to elected office don’t do things like that, although a few have done that in recent years. Senators retire, and sometimes do so because they are in the minority, although that happens a lot more in the House, but they don’t usually quit in the middle to take another job. Trent Lott did that too. Also David Boren.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  26. The house I stayed in in D.C. was two blocks from Heritage. I got light-headed smoking one of my first cigarettes (on the way to Union Station) and had to lay down on the Heritage lawn.

    Leviticus (1aca67)

  27. Comment by askeptic (b8ab92) — 12/6/2012 @ 10:56 am

    Many have (particularly Yours Truly), for a very long time, advocated the repeal of the Budget Act of 1974, as the only way to rid us of “Base Line Budgeting” and to make the budget process one of honesty and practicality.

    No, you have to get rid of the federal budget, not just the Budget Act. The only test should be reality. Tie every simgle expenditure to a source (which may include borrowing) and spoecify what happens if it falls short.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  28. 26. “This would indicate he really doesn’t care about the issues.”

    In Samuel’s case it’s a Teflon wall, coated liberally with eternally renewed surfactant.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  29. Comment by Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b) — 12/6/2012 @ 4:43 am

    But are there any constitutional impediments to adding new states? Say that someplace like the Bahamas wanted to join (and Great Britain was cool with that). Or some tidy leetle West African nation who got their political act together and petitioned for union.

    All that has to happen – well maybe now it’s more complicated, is for Congress to vote to admit that place as a state and approve of its constitution.

    Several times in the past independent countries have been admitted to the union as a state. Vermont and Texas, and possibly California come to mind.

    Well, Vermont was sort of a no mans’s land. It used to be claimed by the state of New York.

    California was an independent country for just a little while around 1848 or 1849 I think.

    Texas of course we know.

    Hawaii was annexed as a territory. Some Americans living there had staged a revolution in 1893, but President cleveland vetoed the bill annexing it – it remained a republic for five years till annexed in 1898.

    You can also split up states This requires the consent of the state. This has only happened two times, or maybe only one time for real.. In 1820, Maine was split off from Massachusetts, and in 1863, the poortions of Virginia that remained loyal to the union were admitted to the union as the state of West Virginia (by seceding, Virginia was conceded to have consented.)

    I think small amounts of territory have bene moved from one state to another from timne to time but I don’t remember what.

    What would happen? Who would support them? Who would be against them? Think they’d need to join in pairs, a Red state and a Blue state?

    That’s what happened with Alaska and Hawaii, only Alaska was supposed to be the Democratic state and Hawaii the Republican one. Within ten years, things had reversed themseves.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  30. I think DiMint did this for the money.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  31. 27. The Mrs. and I visited last June. Met a few co-workers at lunch but our ‘tour’ was just the top floor seminar facility.

    Has a great view of the SEC, Federal peep-show facility.

    One needs one’s legs under themselves on visiting DC. The day I loitered at Kimberlin’s I figure I walked about 1l miles including a circuit of the Tidal Pool.

    A very courteous VA couple made their sons yield up their seats to us on the Metro. We must’ve looked shot.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  32. Comment by AZ Bob (1c9631) — 12/5/2012 @ 10:44 pm

    .Other than getting much better press, did Obama do anything better with the damage from Sandy than Bush did with Katrina?

    I want to know.

    The New York delegation is complaining he doesn’t seem to be so anxious to spend money.

    And this would be for infrastructure!

    But he only wants to waste money or put it into the hands of favorites.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  33. Daleyrocks:

    The immigration agents’ lawsuit was after Obama had signed that quasi amnesty for people brought here as children

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Immigration-Lawsuit-obama-amnesty/2012/08/23/id/449559?s=al&promo_code=FD5E-1

    So I’m half wrong.

    There was passive resistance before.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  34. I’ll get more links.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  35. “So I’m half wrong.”

    Sammy – No Sammy, you are wholly wrong. The employees sued the administration and their bosses for ordering them not to do their jobs and not to enforce our existing laws, IOW, to be lax on immigration enforcement. That is exactly the opposite of what you claimed, which I already knew. Stop being an Obama apologist.

    “”In both instances, the Obama administration ordered federal law enforcement agents to break the law, to ignore the laws that they’re supposed to enforce, and, in the case of the ICE agents, to actually break federal laws that say you’re supposed to deport certain people,” he told Fox News.”And in each case, the Obama administration seems to be doing so for political reasons.””

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  36. 31. I’m sure money entered DeMint’s calculus.

    Remembering Scott Adams’ aphorism “Everyone is an idiot”, I’d say DeMint has a comparatively stellar record among DC politico’s. Conservative but not irrationally so, self-composed, respectful.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  37. So I’m half wrong.”

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/6/2012 @ 12:09 pm

    Sammy – No Sammy, you are wholly wrong. The employees sued the administration and their bosses for ordering them not to do their jobs and not to enforce our existing laws, IOW, to be lax on immigration enforcement.

    That’s right.

    That is exactly the opposite of what you claimed, which I already knew.

    I ever claimed that. Now I have to find the comment where it could seem like I said that.

    Obama did toughen enforcement at the border. And he increased the number of deportations. But he tried to deport only what he considered underserving illegal immigrants. This was resisted and his instructions were not abided by.

    I noted how much he was resisted by notinmg that he had in fact been sued.

    So after having no success in getting ICE to go after just the types of illegal immigrants he wanted to, he made his instructions very formal.

    Where did I say anything else?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  38. * I never claimed that.

    Now I have to finds the comment, I guess on the SOS Rice thread, or is it some place else?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  39. No, you have to get rid of the federal budget,

    That is completely ridiculous.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  40. This is an analysis of the recently formed idea that the Genesis creation narrative is poetry or a cosmogony.

    Is the Genesis Creation Account Poetry?

    Gerald A (f26857)

  41. “No, you have to get rid of the federal budget”

    40. Comment by askeptic (b8ab92) — 12/6/2012 @ 12:46 pm

    That is completely ridiculous. </i.

    No, it's not ridiculous. All these problems in Washington are caused by the federal budget, and the budget prevents any good changes in spending. It is impossible to project in advance.

    We got along without abudget until 1920, and we can get along again. We also got along without one ethe past few years.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  42. “And he increased the number of deportations. But he tried to deport only what he considered underserving illegal immigrants. This was resisted and his instructions were not abided by.”

    Sammy – Increasing numbers of deportations does not mean Obama was tougher on enforcing our laws on illegal immigration. The link you provided in fact proves the exact opposite. You have provided no evidence that the toughness you claim for him was resisted or that his tough instructions were resisted.

    Remember that Obama campaigned on giving drivers licenses to illegal aliens, hardly a tough stand, sued Arizona and had the Justice Department investigate Sheriff Arpaio.

    Instructing federal employees to break the law in the course of their duties should meet with resistance and your link shows that it did.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  43. This needs some work.

    Article XXVII

    Section 1.

    1. No money shall be drawn from the Treasury unless a source of income for it has previously been received, but the Treasury may issue
    notes for a term no longer than 270 days against future receipts. This debt shall not be valid except against those particular receipts
    assigned to that debt, but Congress may pay it anyway.

    2. No bill appropriating money to be drawn from the Treasury shall become law unless it provides an income stream for that expenditure, which may be any receipt of money that comes into the U.S. Treasury, including borrowing.

    3. No other source of revenue may be used but that specifically provided by law.

    4. The same source of revenue may not be simultaneously tied to more than one purpose, but any individual income stream may be split or
    assigned in any way prescribed by Congress.

    5. The sources and expenditures may be replaced and abolished any number of times before the money is spent, and it shall always be in order in both Houses for any Amendment to a bill that is proposing any expenditure to use a source of revenue already assigned, except that whenever it shall turn out when a bill becomes law, that the money has already been spent even though the income has not come in, enough must be collected to cover the expenditures before it can go to another purpose.

    Section 2.

    1. Both Houses of Congress shall maintain a running tally of proposed expenditures and sources for them, separately both for those that have passed into law and those that have passed that particular House, which shall also be available for inspection by the public.

    2. No more than 15% of the possible expenditures of the Treasury during any given calendar year, or such other period that Congress may by law provide, shall result from the adoption of one bill and no more than 30% from any three bills,nor 40% from any 8 bills. In calculating how much of an expenditure extending over a longer period or overlapping the calculated period belongs to a particular period,a pro-ratio formula shall be used unless in the bill appropriating money a different timetable for spending it was mandated. All appropriation bills and laws shall always be valid, but no more money may actually be spent than would fit into this formula. [Note, this clause needs more work]

    3. No two or more appropriation bills may be tied together by any rule of either House and the President must be given the opportunity to veto any one.

    Section 3.

    1. The government of the United States shall not been be bound by any other budget requirements but those that result from this Amendment, except for other provisions of the Constitution.

    2. The Federal Budget and all laws relating to it are hereby abolished, but all trust funds are to be deemed already assigned in accordance with
    the provisions of this article.

    Section 4.

    1. Whenever money is appropriated Congress may direct that it all be spent before a certain date and lay down any other regulations down with
    respect to time, and Congress may extend the time period for spending the money at any time.

    2. The time periods for the various sources of revenue and expenditure for different purposes need not be the same length nor start at the same date in the same year.

    Section 5.

    1. Any member of Congress or a state legislative body shall have standing to sue and claim that this Amendment has been violated.

    2. This article shall become effective on the second October 1st following its ratification.

    3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states within seven years from the date of its submission to the States by Congress.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  44. Budgets are the Devil because they have uncertainties and assumptions in them.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  45. South Carolina Nikki Haley is reportedly interested in appointing herself to the Senate. (when this has happened in the past, it usually hasn’t truned out well for teh former Governor)

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  46. Budgets try to be certain about matters you can;’t be.

    My amendment would allow the CBO to exist, but what it said would only have value to teh e3xtent people believed it.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  47. In other news, Senator DeMint is resigning his Senate seat to join the Heritage Foundation, which is in desperate need of one more White Old Man…

    Tillman (51d7aa)

  48. Odd how people that sully the name of a hero come by together, same times, same themes ….

    JD (318f81)

  49. P.Tillman, and Tillman, are both bat-crap crazy!

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  50. “I noted how much he was resisted by notinmg that he had in fact been sued.”

    Sammy – Your comment on being sued was #253 in the IBD thread:

    “Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/4/2012 @ 1:03 pm

    Sammy – Comedy Gold. ICE was standing up to Obama and disobeying his orders. Pull my other finger.

    Some agents even sued.

    I’ll get some links.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 12/4/2012 @ 1:27 pm”

    That comment referred back to my #249, which referenced your #245.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  51. A very courteous VA couple made their sons yield up their seats to us on the Metro. We must’ve looked shot.

    Comment by gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 12/6/2012 @ 12:00 pm

    Come to Chicago, gary. People, walking down the street or going into the grocery store with you, will look you in the eye, smile, say “Hello”, and extend small and large courtesies. Don’t draw broad conclusions from what Drudge writes. Chicago is a very livable, very visitable, and very kind city.

    nk (875f57)

  52. Won’t Nikki need to have her appointment confirmed by the legislature?

    nk (875f57)

  53. BTW, this is St. Nicholas Day. Happy nameday to all Nicks, Nicoles and Nikkies.

    nk (875f57)

  54. 48. Everyone I met, about a half dozen, not including the security personnel, was under the age of 35. My niece is 25.

    Yeah, no doubt the research fellows are older but you’re obviously speaking whereof you know nothing. Again.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  55. 52. We’ve been over this before, former college chum lived on the lake, been to Wrigley, shopped Michigan avenue and registered for wedding gifts, done Valentine’s weekend at the Seneca, my uncle has lived in Northbrook virtually my whole life.

    Evanston, Winnetka are fine. Locals badger you about your driving but ‘eff them.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  56. Sammy,

    Knock it off with the cut and pastes. Link! It’s the Constitution for crying out loud!

    Actually, can you just take the trouble to summarize your point in two lines?

    nk (875f57)

  57. Re DeMint

    From what I know Nikki Haley is a pretty good conservative. I heard someone today say there is a really great conservative African American Representative that could get put into DeMint’s seat and have 2 years to build his rep before up for reelection (no, I don’t remember the name)

    Besides, educating the public is more important than the vote of 1 Senator, and if he can be effective in doing that at Heritage than it will be better for everybody.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  58. Think they’d need to join in pairs, a Red state and a Blue state?

    Yes, absolutely, just as in the second third of the 19th century slave states had to be paired with free states. There’s no way either party will allow the balance of power to be shifted against it by admitting a state that will be guaranteed to vote for the other party.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  59. Locals badger you about your driving but ‘eff them.

    Comment by gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 12/6/2012 @ 1:47 pm

    True that. We like polite driving. Give a little lane, back up a little from the crosswalk, give a friendly nod or wave to the guy who let’s you cut in.

    nk (875f57)

  60. 46. That’s only a possibility. Haley may be tempted with current popularity ebbing, but no evidence so far.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  61. badgers are a bit farther to the north of Chicago, even farther than Evanston (those are wildcats, not to be confused)

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  62. 58. Tim Scott.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  63. So, if Texas goes from one state to five, the new 4 will be 2 and 2. Dem States centered around Austin and Houston(?)?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  64. thanks gary, that was it

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  65. 60. I remember being in some suburb on my CX500 pulled up to a stop light.

    Housewife across from me in a station wagon was halfway thru her left turn in front of me at the light change before I could release the clutch lever.

    Talk about humbled. Shirley Muldowney?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  66. Those are the Polish people. Seriously. Happens to me all the time at Addison and Keeler.

    nk (875f57)

  67. Won’t Nikki need to have her appointment confirmed by the legislature?

    No. Are there any states in which the state legislature does have to confirm the governor’s appointment of interim US senators?

    In case of a vacancy in the office of United States Senator from death, resignation or otherwise, the Governor may fill the place by appointment which shall be for the period of time intervening between the date of such appointment and January third following the next succeeding general election.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  68. But, it looks that you are right, that in Virginia the governor can make an interim appointment until the next general election. But why on Earth would she be wanting to be 100th in the Senate instead of first in her state?

    nk (875f57)

  69. So, no. There are no states in which the legislature must confirm such appointments.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  70. This needs some work.

    Yeah, cut it down to about 100 words please.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  71. Virginia?! Oh, and by the way the page you linked to is wrong; it’s contradicted by the link I provided, which which is by definition correct.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  72. I’m from Illinois. Blagojecic?

    nk (875f57)

  73. Who came up with this nonsense (Nikki appointing herself), BTW? The same “flaming southerners” who claimed to have gone to a movie with her?

    nk (875f57)

  74. Pretty much, the State floats these things from Will Folks, and the Daily Caller usually picks it up,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  75. 51. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/6/2012 @ 1:21 pm

    Sammy – Your comment on being sued was #253 in the IBD thread:

    …That comment referred back to my #249, which referenced your #245.

    So this goes like this: (with typos corrected and some cclarification added in brackets)

    SF: “Barack Obama played that game [of toughening enforcement so as then to get a law passed that included some amnesty] till the middle of 2011. It didn’t work. It’s never enough. Which is the idea behind making that a condition.”

    daleyrocks: Sammy – No he didn’t. He sued Arizona for passing a law to enforce our existing immigration laws.

    SF: He didn’t want things outside of his own control.

    SF: What he was doing at the time was:

    SF: 1) attempting more control of the border, but only the border.

    SF: 2) Increased deportations, but only of “undeserving” illegal immigrants, mainly “criminals”.

    SF: That didn’t work. ICE was not really obeying his instructions.

    [meaning they were arresting and deporting people he didn't want or didn't expect to be deported]

    daleyrocks: Sammy – Comedy Gold. ICE was standing up to Obama and disobeying his orders. Pull my other finger.

    SF: Some agents even sued. [that's how much they disobeyed or wanted to disobey his instructions]

    SF: I’ll get some links.

    Now – they sued later actually.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  76. Before that, the Obama Administration was getting into conflicts with state and local governments that wanted to independently enforce immigration laws – and with states and local governments that didn’t want to be dragooned into helping.

    We see things like this:

    Deportations Under New U.S.
    Policy Are Inconsistent By JULIA PRESTON – November 13, 2011, on page A16 of the New York Times

    Outspoken resistance to the policy has come from Chris Crane, the president of the American Federation of Government Employees’ union local that represents ICE deportation agents. In testimony last month before the immigration subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee, Mr. Crane said that Mr. Morton’s guidelines were too complex and “cannot be effectively applied in the field.”

    Rather than adding flexibility, Mr. Crane said, the guidelines “take away officers’ discretion and establish a system that mandates that the nation’s most fundamental immigration laws are not enforced.”

    Still, uncertainty about the policy among agents appeared more widespread than outright rejection did. That was the experience of Shamir Ali, a 24-year-old student born in Bangladesh, who was detained Oct. 19 when the police raided a Miami car rental agency where he worked, looking for someone else. Mr. Ali seemed to fit within the discretion guidelines: he had no criminal record and had been brought by his parents to the United States when he was 7. But immigration agents denied his first requests to be spared from deportation.

    Then student groups staged protests on Mr. Ali’s behalf in eight cities. On Oct. 28, agents freed Mr. Ali on an order of supervision, also allowing him to apply for a work permit. For Mr. Ali, like Mr. Bartsch, that permit would be life-changing, since it would allow him to obtain a driver’s license and to enroll at resident rates in a state college.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  77. Here you have another little problem:

    Immigration Crackdown Also Snares Americans

    They couldn’t even make sure the people arrested (or rather detained when arrested for other reasons) weren’t American citizens. The Homeland Security database wasn’t 100% accurate.

    One case in the article involved someone deported to Mexico in 1996 whose citizenship was later recognized. The database wasn’t updated.

    Another case involved a girl who had duel citizenship in the United States and Spain and had once entered the United States using her Spanish passport. So they had her down as an alien who had overstayed.

    And then there are people who become American citizens through their parents. Their becoming a citizen is not recorded there.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  78. Another case involved a girl who had duel citizenship

    Does that mean she had to fight for it?

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  79. abc Infographic: How Obama’s Cabinet Could Change This Year

    Roll over photos to see possible changes.

    (I think it might be interesting to do this for past Presidents)

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  80. Ray Kelly as Homeland Security chief? is he interested? And who would replace him in New York?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  81. Anthony Villaraigosa as Secretary of Transportation?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  82. Deval Patrick or Amy Klobuchar or Sheldon Whitehouse or Janet Napolitano as Attorney General?

    Sheldon Whitehouse is maybe the most scary – in the sense he might pass scrutiny.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  83. So this goes like this: (with typos corrected and some cclarification added in brackets)

    SF: “Barack Obama played that game [of toughening enforcement so as then to get a law passed that included some amnesty] till the middle of 2011. It didn’t work. It’s never enough. Which is the idea behind making that a condition.”

    Except he never was tough on illegal immigration because as you point out:

    SF: That didn’t work. ICE was not really obeying his instructions.

    [meaning they were arresting and deporting people he didn't want or didn't expect to be deported]

    daleyrocks: Sammy – Comedy Gold. ICE was standing up to Obama and disobeying his orders. Pull my other finger.

    SF: Some agents even sued. [that's how much they disobeyed or wanted to disobey his instructions]

    Which is why I said it was comedy gold to believe ICE agents were disobeying his orders because he was so tough and for some unknown reason you doubled down, adding a point about ICE agents suing him when in fact they were suing him for not following for following existing law, i.e. being too lenient. There was no game being played by Obama until the middle of 2011 as you contend.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  84. If Patrick is nominated the Rs should make an issue of the brazen contempt he showed for the first amendment when he was in Clinton’s Housing Dept.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  85. And then there are people who become American citizens through their parents. Their becoming a citizen is not recorded there.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 12/6/2012 @ 3:59 pm

    I’m telling them I’m from Tahiti and I waive deportation.

    nk (875f57)

  86. Oh, come on, Sammy. You believe NYT nonsense.

    Nobody comes into America without documentation. The babies of the American citizens came in with certificates of citizenship. The lady from Spain used her Spanish passport and got herself an I-94, likely only good for six months, as a B1, instead of a D/S (Duration of Stay for a more “permanent” visa).

    nk (875f57)

  87. Yes, but she was an American citizen and so not deportable, no matter what passport she used

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  88. And she was not deported. Don’t confuse the cops. The average policeman’s IQ is between 95 and 105.

    nk (875f57)

  89. BTW, I give advice on these things. It’s hard to lose your American citizenship. Really, really, really, hard. But using a foreign passport is a strong step. The United States does not recognize dual citizenship.

    nk (875f57)

  90. The United States does not recognize dual citizenship.

    Wrong. If you give that advice it’s malpractice.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  91. It’s hard to lose your American citizenship. Actually there is only one way, and it’s dead easy: voluntarily renounce it. It’s theoretically impossible to lose American citizenship involuntarily. Not by using a foreign passport, not by joining a foreign army, not by being elected to a foreign parliament. These may only be used as an indirect indication that you intended to renounce your citizenship; if you can show that you didn’t have such an intention you keep your citizenship. It would be wise, though, to obtain evidence of your intention before doing something that may be misinterpreted. A notarised statement to that effect, dated before you do whatever it is, will do the trick.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  92. 87. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/6/2012 @ 4:32 pm

    Which is why I said it was comedy gold to believe ICE agents were disobeying his orders because he was so tough and for some unknown reason you doubled down, adding a point about ICE agents suing him when in fact they were suing him for not following for following existing law, i.e. being too lenient.

    That’s what I was saying.

    SF: What he was doing at the time was:

    SF: 1) attempting more control of the border, but only the border.

    SF: 2) Increased deportations, but only of “undeserving” illegal immigrants, mainly “criminals”.

    SF: That didn’t work. ICE was not really obeying his instructions.

    His policy didn’t work because they were not limiting it to criminals, like he thought.

    He was following a policy both of increased enforcement and leniency. More enforcement – but only of certain provisions. Which is more control. People said they wanted control before they would liberalize the law. He gave them more control.

    More enforcement in general BUT only at the border, which is what they were complaining about. More internal enforcement, but only at the workplace – in big workplaces. He didn’t want it anywhere else. Increased enforcement – as measured by statistics. More deportations, but only of people convicted of certain crimes (or who flouted immigration law too much)

    He wasn’t able to control things the way he wanted to, or was possibly led to believe. The bureacacy was not doing things or coming up with results the way he wanted them to. For them, every illegal immigrant was equal to every other ilegal immigrant, while Obama wanted to treat the law like it already been amended, and he wanted to treat the law like it was meant to make sense, which it wasn’t.. He wanted greater totals but only what he selected.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  93. Milhouse, your advice is malpractice. Don’t f***ing use a foreign passport.

    When do you need a passport, moron? When you have left the country. Right? And in another country, you have renounced your US citizenship so now you need a foreign passport? Moron!

    nk (875f57)

  94. And I know the Meir Kahane rules. They only apply to Israelis/Jews. And I’m sorry you made me go there.

    nk (875f57)

  95. Comment by nk (875f57) — 12/6/2012 @ 5:19 pm

    Oh, come on, Sammy. You believe NYT nonsense.

    Nobody comes into America without documentation.

    That was the problem with the lady from Spain. She used the wrong documentation. And didn’t know it was a problem. She maybe later on used her American passport to travel with. In the meantime her fingerprints were on file as a citizen on Spain on a six month visa granted automatically at the border.

    The babies of the American citizens came in with certificates of citizenship.

    These were people who came in as non-citizens, on temporary visas, but got naturalized by virtue of a parent being naturalized, and probably never got an American passport, so they stayed in the records as visitors, or on visas that had expired. Then one day they get arrested and would normally be released but a detainer gets out on them, and there’s no routine process for straightening this out, and it requires some help from lawyers.

    The lady from Spain used her Spanish passport and got herself an I-94, likely only good for six months, as a B1, instead of a D/S (Duration of Stay for a more “permanent” visa).

    We don’t know the full story, but it could be she got herself a six month visa instead of presenting herself as an American citizen. Maybe she thought it didn’t make a difference what passport she used, maybe her American passport had expired.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  96. With all due respect to Sammy, it would appear conservatives of some reputation and the Heritage staff do not share his low regard for Senator DeMint.

    http://twitchy.com/2012/12/06/sen-demint-resigning-to-head-heritage-foundation-left-giddy-with-hate-conservatives-speculate-on-replacement/

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  97. And there was a Lithuanian, too, I know. He had a name sounded close to Stalin’s. Tolerance is not the same as recognition.

    nk (875f57)

  98. nk finally comes out as the antisemitic piece of lying sh*t I always knew he was. I didn’t make him go anywhere, he just exposed what he was thinking. There are no “Kahane rules” and there are no special rules for Israelis or Jews. The Kahane case did not innovate anything; it was straightforward application of long-established existing law.

    nk, you said that the USA doesn’t recognise dual citizenship, and that is an outright falsehood. If that’s the advice you give you are a sh*t lawyer.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  99. Alright, I had a taco and a shot of vodka. Calming down.

    You lose your American citizenship by leaving the country. Then you go to an American embassy and say that you don’t want to be an American anymore. They will try to talk you out of it. They will give you a grace period to change your mind. I know that.

    BUT, they are the State Department. Your entry in the United States is controlled by BCIS, used to be Justice Department. They don’t know necessarily know what went on in the embassy, they know the documents you show.

    nk (875f57)

  100. Bite me, Milhouse. You did say in another thread that 1) the Constitution does not mention taxation and 2) that taxation is killing, raping and robbing.

    And since I’m such an anti-Semite, let’s talk about how “blood washes off diamonds”. And how the blood diamonds from the Congo find their way to Tel Aviv and then to Hassidics in New York.

    Keep the fringes of your beard and of your vest long.

    nk (875f57)

  101. And if there was ever a rationale for abortion pre-frontal lobotomy, it was Meir Kahane, and the judges who allowed him to spread his poison in two countries.

    nk (875f57)

  102. bobby orr

    pdbuttons (9be8a8)

  103. Oh, BTW,

    The United States Oath of Allegiance (officially referred to as the “Oath of Allegiance,” 8 C.F.R. Part 337 (2008)) is an oath that must be taken by all immigrants who wish to become United States citizens. The first officially recorded Oaths of Allegiance were made on May 30, 1778 at Valley Forge, during the Revolutionary War.

    The current oath is as follows:

    I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.[1]

    nk (875f57)

  104. Comment by nk (875f57) — 12/6/2012 @ 3:29 pm

    I’m from Illinois. Blagojecic?

    Blagojevich thought about doing that but he thought the whole hing was golden and he wanted to figure out a way he could benefit from that.

    In the end he couldn’t figure out anything and he didn’t even get the satisfaction of appointing a good Senator. He made sure however to appoint someone (who wouldn’t be indicted) before his impeachment went through.

    Jesse Jackson Jr. thought he had a good claim on the seat – the closest thing to next of kin – or at least a shot at winning an election, but the whole episode eventually led to him having to leave politics a few years later on advice of counsel.

    Mark Kirk just went back to the Senate.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  105. Comment by nk (875f57) — 12/6/2012 @ 6:23 pm

    BUT, they are the State Department. Your entry in the United States is controlled by BCIS, used to be Justice Department. They don’t know necessarily know what went on in the embassy, they know the documents you show.

    That’s right. The State Department is one thing, and Homeland Security is another.

    There was the story of the person from Queens (with origins in Montenegro) who couldn’t fly home because he got put on the no fly list and even the U. S. Ambassador to Austria couldn’t help him.

    Queens man on no-fly list stuck 17 days in German airport

    He eventually, after weeks, got on a plane that landed in Philadelphia and rather than go through questioning and a tremendous hassle went home by land.

    ‘no-fly’ American battles his way home to New York

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  106. Blagojevic was a drunken idiot who framed himself, in my opinion.

    The idiot knew he was being tapped. He knew, Sammy. It is not only hearsay that he was warned. He said it in front of TV cameras that he knew he was being tapped. He said, “Go ahead and tap me”.

    nk (875f57)

  107. bjork

    pdbuttons (9be8a8)

  108. 110. I loved the John Kass columns on Dead Meat’s denouement.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  109. I don’t rightfully believe the bookie part. I knew the neighborhood bookie.

    But Blagojevic was my neighbor, and his father-in-law would drop by to buy his newspaper from me on occasion.

    What an idiot. If he had given the job to Valerie Jarett, the way Obama wanted him to, he would be running stealing from Chevy Volts, today.

    nk (875f57)

  110. Blago, was as ‘crooked as the day is long, but using ‘Rezko’ to bait him, is such small fry, he led to paths, much higher,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  111. bjork is pure/pure is bjork
    the hills have eyes

    pdbuttons (9be8a8)

  112. bjork is not content like Antelope

    bjork is not gleeful like Gallagher

    bjork is not joyful like Witch

    bjork is not playful like Slinky

    happyfeet (324110)

  113. nk, with Chanukah coming up, thanks for the reminder that Greeks soak up antisemitism with their mothers’ milk, and you can never take it out of them. Rabbi Kahane (may God avenge his blood) was a saint and a martyr, and you are a drunken bum unfit to even mention his name.

    “Blood diamonds” is a made-up and meaningless term. There’s no reason why whichever band of thugs happens to control Luanda should have a better claim than any other band on all diamonds mined anywhere in Angola. For that matter, there’s not even a reason why a legitimate government should own all diamonds mined anywhere in the country it rules, let alone an illegitimate one.

    What else? Oh, I never claimed that the constitution doesn’t mention taxes; that would be ridiculous, since the word is right there. And yes, taking someone’s rightful property by force is the definition of robbery; the mafia calls its extortions “tax” too.

    The naturalisation oath is irrelevant. Yes, people who become naturalised in the USA have to renounce their foreign citizenships, so from then on they would not be dual citizens; what has that got to do with anything? First of all, their other countries of citizenship may not recognise the renunciation. Second, there are plenty of other ways to become a dual citizen. One could start with US citizenship and become naturalised elsewhere, or one could be born with several citizenships.

    USA law has to recognise dual citizenship, because it’s a fact, and even if it wanted to it couldn’t do anything about it. Every US passport I’ve had, since my first one issued in 1970, has had a section about dual citizenship.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  114. bjork is 10 items in the less than 12 item aisle-frustrated with commoners
    bjork crys at the beginning of ‘its a wonderful life’
    bjork knows jimi hendrix-she says he says in heaven -he talks- he’s sorry for being such a fuck up
    the island of misfit toys has a boulevard named after her

    pdbuttons (9be8a8)

  115. What on earth is bjork?

    nk (875f57)

  116. The naturalisation oath is irrelevant. Yes, people who become naturalised in the USA have to renounce their foreign citizenships, so from then on they would not be dual citizens; what has that got to do with anything? First of all, their other countries of citizenship may not recognise the renunciation. Second, there are plenty of other ways to become a dual citizen. One could start with US citizenship and become naturalised elsewhere, or one could be born with several citizenships.

    USA law has to recognise dual citizenship, because it’s a fact, and even if it wanted to it couldn’t do anything about it. Every US passport I’ve had, since my first one issued in 1970, has had a section about dual citizenship

    Milhouse, you’re an idiot.

    Every US passport I’ve had, since my first one issued in 1970, has had a section about dual citizenship

    I’ve got a couple of passports lying around, myself. Which page, please?

    Milhouse, you are insane. Get help.

    nk (875f57)

  117. bjork is what happens when an irresistible force meets an unmoveable object

    happyfeet (324110)

  118. Sammy, you seem to not understand what happens in detail regarding children of naturalized parents in terms of exactly when they themselves become naturalized.

    SPQR (768505)

  119. bjork is ice cream
    bjork is sunny day real estate
    bjork is cuddles
    bjork is dancing on train
    bjork is iceland yodels
    bjork is bi partin-a-ship
    bjork is 7 of 9
    bjork is superbowl
    bjork

    pdbuttons (9be8a8)

  120. Israel’s rule “if you are one-fourth Jew, you are an Israeli” is nowhere found in American law.

    nk (875f57)

  121. bjork sounds like an old man missed out

    nk (875f57)

  122. BTW, Milhouse, my people were the first to sigh a mutual defense treaty with the Maccabes.

    I am the idiot to be engaging this clown. Go to sleep, Milhouse.

    nk (875f57)

  123. I wonder if Blago and Tony Rezko were hoping Romney would win, thereby anticipating a Jan 19 pardon from Obama.
    Now they’ll have to wait another four years.

    Of course, by then, we’ll all be in jail for stealing bread and milk as a result of the wretched Obama Economy, fueled by inflation, regulatory chaos, energy rationing, and a health care system that is so short on qualified physicians that nurse’s aides at public schools will be recruited to moonlight at urban hospital emergency rooms in order to earn some extra cash.

    But hey, America, at least the damn rich guys will have to pay higher income taxes !
    Too bad the working class Democrats who fell for the class warfare crapola weren’t smart enough to recognize that those “damn rich guys” are their own employers. And when their boss gets taxed more, the boss passes on that “hurt” to his employees’ paychecks.

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  124. bjork doesn’t ‘sound’ anything/old cough death rattle sounds/ new baby gurgle sounds..bjork absorbs them..
    bjork laughs at beatles on india bound train
    bjork winks at ringo/makes slash knife cut motion to george
    makes a finger gun at john/ looks at sir paul in sadness
    waves
    ‘see you in the funny papers..papers..papers’

    pdbuttons (9be8a8)

  125. Israel’s rule “if you are one-fourth Jew, you are an Israeli” is nowhere found in American law.

    Israel has no such rule, you f–ing antisemite.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  126. There’s more to it than that, SPQR. Children born abroad, of American citizen parents, do not need to be naturalized. They are automatically American citizens, and they receive certificates of citizenship.

    nk (875f57)

  127. I’ve got a couple of passports lying around, myself. Which page, please?

    Read the damn thing for yourself. It’s not that long.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  128. Damn it, I knew I should have burned my swastika.

    nk (875f57)

  129. “Israel’s rule “if you are one-fourth Jew, you are an Israeli” is nowhere found in American law.

    Comment by nk (875f57) — 12/6/2012 @ 8:15 pm”

    And why would it? American law does not decide who is an Israeli citizen. You are getting yourself almost as confused as Sammy is.

    SPQR (768505)

  130. Sammy, you seem to not understand what happens in detail regarding children of naturalized parents in terms of exactly when they themselves become naturalized.

    They don’t become naturalized, they become citizens automatically with their parents’ naturalization, provided that they meet the criteria at the time.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  131. The Law of Return defines that all Jews possessing an Oleh’s certificate[clarification needed] shall become Israel nationals[citation needed] and be allowed to immigrate to Israel. Such a certificate would almost automatically turn into Israeli citizenship upon arrival in Israel if so desired. In the 1970s the Law of Return was further expanded, and it was defined that the spouse of a Jew, the children of a Jew and their spouses, and the grandchildren of a Jew and their spouses would also be covered under the Law of Return and thus be eligible for an Oleh’s certificate provided that the Jew on behalf of whom they request the certificate did not practice a religion other than Judaism willingly (he or she may, however, be a non-observant Jew).

    Please bite me again go to sleep, Milhouse.

    nk (875f57)

  132. Damn it, I knew I should have burned my swastika.

    You can’t; it’s engraved on your heart.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  133. And how does that back up the falsehood you wrote, you drunken illiterate?

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  134. You wrote: “if you are one-fourth Jew, you are an Israeli”. The Wikipedia paragraph you quoted does not support that statement, which you’d know if you were capable of thinking.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  135. And why would it? American law does not decide who is an Israeli citizen. You are getting yourself almost as confused as Sammy is.

    Comment by SPQR (768505) — 12/6/2012 @ 8:28 pm

    Sammy’s fine. It’s Milhouse who’s saying other countries’ rules about dual citizenship are American law.

    nk (875f57)

  136. A grandparent is one-fourth, if I know genetics.

    nk (875f57)

  137. A grandparent is one-fourth, if I know genetics.

    Yes. Irrelevant. The Law of Return, even as described in the Wikipedia paragraph you quoted does not say anything like what you claimed.

    It’s Milhouse who’s saying other countries’ rules about dual citizenship are American law

    No, I didn’t. You’re lying again. Let’s see, you’re a protectionist, a statist, and now revealed as an antisemite, why exactly are you here?

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  138. “SF: 1) attempting more control of the border, but only the border.”

    Sammy – From DHS:

    “The number of Border Patrol apprehensions declined 61 percent from 1,189,000 in 2005 to 463,000 in 2010 (see Figure 1). The decrease in apprehensions between 2005 and 2010 may be due to a number of factors including changes in U.S. economic conditions and bor-der enforcement efforts. Border apprehensions in 2010 were at their lowest level since 1972. Apprehensions previously peaked at 1,676,000 in 2000. The all-time apprehension record was 1,693,000 in 1986 immedi-ately preceding passage of the Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA), which allowed the legalization of several million unauthorized immigrants, established sanctions for employers who knowingly hired unau-thorized immigrants, and provided for increased border enforcement.”

    http://www.dhs.gov/apprehensions-us-border-patrol-2005-2010

    Total illegal immigrant apprehensions by DHS in fact declined by almost 50% between 2006 and 2010.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  139. Milhouse, I don’t think you read your link carefully. I’ve run into cases where parents had gained LPR and then naturalized but had omitted gaining LPR status for their child.

    SPQR (768505)

  140. It was the Holocaust rule. Israel adopted it.

    nk (875f57)

  141. Milhouse, I don’t think you read your link carefully. I’ve run into cases where parents had gained LPR and then naturalized but had omitted gaining LPR status for their child.

    I said “provided that they meet the criteria at the time”. It doesn’t always happen automatically, but it does often do so, and in such cases the kid could later land in the sort of trouble Sammy described.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  142. You moron, Israel has no rule such as you claimed. I am not an Israeli citizen, under the laws of Israel or any other country.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  143. Let’s see, you’re a protectionist, a statist, and now revealed as an antisemite, why exactly are you here?

    Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/6/2012 @ 8:41 pm

    I am your personal Nemesis, Milhouse. Feel honored that the gods have turned their special attention to you.

    nk (875f57)

  144. I guess I’m having difficulty creating a scenario where an LPR child lacked documentation of at least that status. But whatever.

    SPQR (768505)

  145. Milhouse,

    I am still looking for that page on my passport where it says I am anything other than a citizen of the United States of America and America’s Secretary of State begs for my safe passage. Help. What page makes me citizen of another country.

    Alright, a****le. Let’s get to the nitty-gritty. You are an ignorant moby troll. With his head up his a**.

    nk (875f57)

  146. SPQR,

    When I dealt with it, children had to be under eighteen to be naturalized along with their immigrant parents. If they pass the window, they must file separate petitions.

    But if the parents are already US citizens, and it just happens that the child was born outside the country, the children do not require naturalization. McCain?

    nk (875f57)

  147. What page makes me citizen of another country.

    Did I say that? You’re getting less coherent by the minute. Are you drunk again?

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  148. Milhouse is not actually a troll, and certainly not a Moby. I’m actually sort of fond of him but he has an annoying habit of “arguing” when he’s actually talking past someone and he fails to realize it as often as he should.

    You, nk, are just a cranky old bastard … like me.

    SPQR (768505)

  149. You moron, Israel has no rule such as you claimed. I am not an Israeli citizen, under the laws of Israel or any other country.

    Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/6/2012 @ 8:46 pm

    Yeah, I suppose. You’re too old and too demented to serve in the IDF, so they would not bother making you a citizen.

    nk (875f57)

  150. USA law has to recognise dual citizenship, because it’s a fact, and even if it wanted to it couldn’t do anything about it. Every US passport I’ve had, since my first one issued in 1970, has had a section about dual citizenship.

    Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/6/2012 @ 7:54 pm

    What page makes me citizen of another country.

    Did I say that? You’re getting less coherent by the minute. Are you drunk again?

    Comment by Milhouse (15b6fd) — 12/6/2012 @ 9:03 pm

    nk (875f57)

  151. Ιf I’m not, the thread is. Goodbye, Milhouse.

    nk (875f57)

  152. If there was a rule such as you claimed, then it wouldn’t be a matter of “bothering”. But the rule doesn’t exist.

    But the primary evidence that you’re an antisemitic turd is your earlier claim that the USA has special rules just for Jews or Israelis. That is blatant Elders of Zion stuff.

    Your sullying of Rabbi Kahane’s name doesn’t make you an antisemite, it just makes you a pig.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  153. Bite me, Milhouse.

    nk (875f57)

  154. Just in case anyone missed it, Here is the comment in which nk revealed his antisemitism. And here’s where he showed just how low an excuse for a human being he is. He’s a worthless despicable pig.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  155. It’s Pearl Harbor Day.

    nk (875f57)

  156. How does bringing up Meir Kahane make nk an anti-semite, again?

    Leviticus (1aca67)

  157. 161. Gentiles are not permitted to maintain an opinion on anything observant Jews might do or think.

    Salvation is from the Jews and its a one-way street.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  158. My fishwrap has competition with yours;

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/12/07/3131196_p2/obama-wants-to-understand-climate.html

    I really don’t get antisemitism, properly understood the Jews like the Romans, served as a vehicle to fulfill Jesus’s mission,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  159. Patterico’s Pontifications is listed in Right Wing News in their best 60 Conservative blogs at #55. That is down from #30 in 2011.

    http://www.rightwingnews.com/special/the-60-best-conservative-blogs-for-2012-6th-annual/

    They don’t tell us what the criteria was to make the list. I’m guessing it was just John Hawkins preferences. It ranks higher in my book but I guess just being on that list is dam good considering the thousands of blogs out there.

    Mattsky (c97938)

  160. 163. “antisemitism, properly understood the Jews like the Romans, served as a vehicle to fulfill Jesus’s mission”

    The stock explanation of antisemitism from the Tanakh is the enmity harbored against the Jews is displaced hatred for their God.

    Seems perfectly predictive in my limited experience.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  161. 164. Actually Hawkins is just covering for his ‘Hottest Conservative Chicks’ lists in doing other lists.

    It’s all for the hugs.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  162. Someone else leaving ion the middle of the term – in fact right after re-election – to take a job (not like Jesse Jackson Jr) is Representative Jo Ann Emerson (R-Mo.)

    She isleaving the House in February to become president and CEO of the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association. She CEO of the NRECA on March 1, according to a spokesman for the association, but she will join the staff and start transition activities on Feb. 11. The group is the trade organization for the nation’s nearly 1,000 mostly rural electric cooperative utilities.

    The NRECA executive board voted to approve her for the post on Monday, and Emerson announced her resignation shortly after. She will become CEO on March 1 but start working there February 11th.

    She said that her compensation in the new position is “more generous than I’m making now.”

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  163. Comment by gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 12/7/2012 @ 8:57 am

    The stock explanation of antisemitism from the Tanakh is the enmity harbored against the Jews is displaced hatred for their God.

    That’s not in the Tanakh (Torah, Prophets and Writings)- maybe somewhere in the Talmud.

    There is an opinion this is true even of Hitler. The Atlantic featured writings he scribbled in books some time ago. He felt the origin of the
    conscience came from Jews. And he wanted to abolish the notion of right and wrong (as opposed to comradeship, loyalty and sentimentality) from the world. He must have particularly opposed the notion that murder was wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  164. How does bringing up Meir Kahane make nk an anti-semite, again?

    It doesn’t. Defaming him just makes nk a slimeball. But claiming that US law has special rules just for Jews and Israelis betrays nk as an antisemite. Pretty soon we’ll hear him mention the “kosher tax” that you all pay at the grocery so the rabbis can live high off the hog, you should pardon the expression (which actually means sheep, so it’s OK).

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  165. I really don’t get antisemitism, properly understood the Jews like the Romans, served as a vehicle to fulfill Jesus’s mission,

    Comment by narciso (ee31f1) — 12/7/2012 @ 6:44 am

    The Greeks, too. The Herods were successors of Alexander. The Maccabees overthrew them for a time, but they snuck back in.

    It is instructive that the Maccabees signed their first mutual defense treaty with Sparta. Spartans and Jews, two unconquerable people.

    And Meir Kahane, as leader of the JDL, makes Brett Kimberlin look like an altar boy. (I’m only saying this to give Milhouse a stroke.)

    nk (875f57)

  166. The stock explanation of antisemitism from the Tanakh is the enmity harbored against the Jews is displaced hatred for their God.

    That’s not in the Tanakh (Torah, Prophets and Writings)- maybe somewhere in the Talmud.

    It’s not there either. Surely the concept of “displaced hatred” depends on 20th century psychological theories, and so could not appear any earlier.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  167. The Greeks, too. The Herods were successors of Alexander. The Maccabees overthrew them for a time, but they snuck back in.

    Garbage. Herod was an Edomi slave, not a Greek, and had nothing to do with the Seleucids.

    Rabbi Kahane was a saint. And nk, if you mess with the Jews the JDL will come after you too.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  168. Heh, really the JDL pulled off a few stunts like Omega 7, in my neck of the woods in the 70s. He didn’t leave an innocent bystander maimed, because
    he wanted to distract the authorities,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  169. One is struck, how aggressively wrong he can be, Pontius Pilate was ruthless toward everyone, but he couldn’t find ‘fault with Jesus’

    narciso (ee31f1)

  170. I have read that Barabas was Yeshua bar Abas. Confusion?

    nk (875f57)

  171. “And nk, if you mess with the Jews the JDL will come after you too.”

    - Milhouse

    Hahahaha oh noes!!

    Leviticus (17b7a5)

  172. Well, the JDL no longer really exists, but it’s good for antisemites to be afraid. If not the JDL, someone will come after them.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  173. 171. It’s possible I’ve conflated the theme of Exodus 19:5&6, repeated often, with that of Psalm 2.

    Certainly it is a very important New Testament theme, but the ‘Anointed’ and ‘Zion’ take another referent.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  174. Leviticus, thanks.

    Ignore Milhouse’s nonsense about the law. Sammy got it right. If you enter the country with a visaless foreign passport, you get an I-94, and you get into the system as a tourist with permission to stay no more than six months.

    nk (875f57)

  175. No, you’ve added 20th century psychology into the mix.

    Exodus 19:5-6 doesn’t address antisemitism at all. It simply declares that, as a consequence of the encounter at Mount Sinai, the Jews are God’s treasure, a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. It’s possible that other nations might resent that, but such a possibility isn’t mentioned or implied.

    Psalm 2 is also not about antisemitism as such; it’s about nations rebelling against God. There’s no “displacement” going on; they know their war is against God, not just against His people.

    Antisemitism is something else; it’s an obvious phenomenon, but what causes it isn’t explained in the Bible or Talmud. The Talmud simply states it as a fact — “it is a well-known law that Esav hates Yaacov” — but doesn’t try to explain it.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  176. If you enter the country with a visaless foreign passport, you get an I-94, and you get into the system as a tourist with permission to stay no more than six months.

    Yes, which is precisely the problem, because as a citizen you have the right to stay forever, but that isn’t what’s in the system. So if your fingerprints are run for any reason, e.g. you were arrested or you were found injured and taken to hospital, you might find yourself accidentally listed for deportation. That doesn’t change the fact that you are a citizen, and the deportation would be illegal.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  177. I’m sure that DHS has a Super Secret Regulation that allows them to strip any citizen of that citizenship, and to deport them immediately, if not sooner.
    If they can’t find a country to take them in the front door, they’ll just use on of the CIA’s Black Detention Fac’s.

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  178. …they’ll just use one of the CIA’s…

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  179. I’m sure that DHS has a Super Secret Regulation that allows them to strip any citizen of that citizenship, and to deport them immediately, if not sooner.

    No, the constitution is clear: US citizenship cannot be lost except by voluntary renunciation. There is no way to strip anybody of US citizenship, once it has been validly obtained.

    (If evidence shows that it was never validly obtained in the first place, then of course you were never a citizen and the government can stop pretending that you were one. E.g. if they can prove that you were born in Canada and carried over the border for the birth to be registered in the USA, you were never a citizen at all. That’s how they got Demjanjuk; he lied on his naturalization application, so it was never valid.)

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  180. 180. Nothing gets by you. I do know better.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  181. One (not the only) perspective:

    In the cosmic struggle of good and evil, the Jewish nation not only was God’s chosen people but also specifically the people from whom the Messiah would come. If “evil” can kill the Jewish people, there will be no Messiah, if no Messiah, evil is not vanquished. Herod attempted this on a local scale by the slaughter of male children 2 and under.

    I know some people think the Gospel of John is anti-semitic because of phrases like “because of the Jews…”, etc. I think (and not just me, obviously) that such a reading is totally missing the point that John and Jesus themselves are Jewish and John is writing from that context. John is talking about the local leaders at the time. Some may then think, I guess, that if John was “blaming” the Jewish leaders at the time then all Jews share the guilt of the crucifixion; but that interpretation flies in the face of all of the rest of the New Testament, including John itself, that the responsibility for Jesus’ death was shared by all of mankind. Of course, even if one doesn’t believe that is true, it is the teaching of the New Testament, and any attempted justification of anti-semitism from the New Testament is just wrongheaded, but unfortunately people often are wrongheaded.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  182. Comment by askeptic (b8ab92) — 12/7/2012 @ 11:42 am

    The authorities can maliciously ignore rights, whether those of citizens or non-citizens, true. But it’s a very rare thing.

    Except in the case of Arizona’s “sein papier bitte” law, and specifically Joe Arpaio. That is the camel’s nose in the tent and it really bothers me for the precedents that are being set.

    nk (875f57)

  183. MD, antisemitism predates Xianity, and therefore can’t caused by the NT; rather, the received Greek version of the NT reeks of antisemitism in some places because it was translated by antisemites.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  184. True, that occurred under the Egyptians, under the Babylonians, the Peraians, (remember Haman), and the distinction was between the legalistic Sanhedrin, and the more nuanced but more exacting
    Jesus message,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  185. One is struck, how aggressively wrong he can be, Pontius Pilate was ruthless toward everyone, but he couldn’t find ‘fault with Jesus’

    Comment by narciso (ee31f1) — 12/7/2012 @ 10:50 am

    Pontius Pilate is fascinating to me. He is the fourth person named in the Creed, after The Father, The Son, and before The Holy Spirit.

    He was an equites, neither of the nobiles nor the senatorial class. He “made his bones” as a cavalry soldier against the Germans. He married a Claudia, a great niece of Tiberius, and possibly that’s how he obtained his position as procurator. He was a stoic, and maintained a large library.

    He trod on the Jews of Jerusalem with an iron foot, to the degree that Tiberius told him to ease off. It could be that he sacrificed Christ to maintain his position, afraid to offend the Sanhedrin anymore. (Well, Titus and Hadrian took care of that, later.)

    On the matter of the Sanhedrin, itself. At that time, it was not allowed to be a hanging court. If it passed a death sentence, it would be dissolved. It is also very clear in the Testaments that Caiphas was concerned that any lenity extended to Christ, by the Sanhedrin, would be used by Pilate to further oppress the Jews.

    Frightened, self-seeking men using a scapegoat? Pilate, Herod, the Sanhedrin. Sacrificial Lamb if you prefer.

    What is truth?

    nk (875f57)

  186. I agree with you Milhouse that anti-semitism predates Christianity as the promise of a Messiah through the Jewish people predates Christianity; but I also disagree in that I know historically some have vocalized their anti-semitism in terms that come from the New Testament.
    In my reading of the New Testament in several English translations I have never found anything that I thought was anti-semitic when viewed from the perspective I mentioned earlier, but I have not often used the KJV, so if there is language that is specifically anti-semitic in that version I may not have encountered it. If you want to offer an example I’d be happy to see it.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  187. the received Greek version of the NT

    The New Testament was originally written in κοινη, “The Common Language”. That was likely St. Paul’s doing. He wanted The Message spread to the gentiles. Everybody spoke colloquial Greek as either a first or second language. If St. Matthew took down notes in Aramaic, that’s lost.

    nk (875f57)

  188. 188. “reeks of antisemitism”

    I suspect rather than an error of conflation here, you simply are uninformed by reason of unschooled prejudice.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  189. 193. Cont. My own error was to imagine ‘hate’ where it was not, the specific term, not a fault of interpretation.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  190. “In other news, Senator DeMint is resigning his Senate seat to join the Heritage Foundation, which is in desperate need of one more White Old Man…”

    My best guess is that you are whiter than a Lawrence Welk audience cheering Arthur Duncan’s taps, but you fall right into the classic lefty-weenie suck-up tactic of using “white” to insult people and make yourself seem oh so progressively edgy and “down.” You lock your car doors when someone black walks by, don’t you?

    Jack Klompus (38c70b)

  191. I heard a very interesting speaker today at church, someone who had been an Islamic radical in Iran at the time of the 1979 revolution. After Khomeini took over the promises of freedom and sharing the wealth of the oil business were gone back on as rule became autocratic and oil money went to Syria and Lebanon and such to support terror, at which point he became part of the opposition, made it into Turkey before he could be executed. (Khomeini said, “I lied for the sake of Islam”).

    His view is Egypt and Morsi trying to go the way of Iran (not really news to many). He also said there were 12 people within the Obama administration who are part of the Muslim Brotherhood…

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  192. Men will follow The Cross before Three Lillies And Threee Lions. Because they’re stupid.

    nk (875f57)

  193. He also said there were 12 people within the Obama administration who are part of the Muslim Brotherhood

    “were” would be the operative part, if the comment were sane.

    nk (875f57)

  194. nk, there are several links between Moslem Brotherhood and Obama administration officials, depending on how deep a “six degrees of separation” you want to play.

    Huma Abedin, Hillary’s deputy, is a good starting point.

    SPQR (768505)

  195. I thought Huma was Hillary’s girl friday? That she had no authority?

    BTW, I have three degrees of seperation from the queen of England. ;)

    nk (875f57)

  196. Persian women are almost as beautiful as Spartan women, and Huma is a perfect example. Alexander could not conquer Sparta so he went to Persia.

    Seriously, John McCain has come to Huma’s defense and I agree with him. If Huma has a fault, it’s marrying Weiner. (I think that a man who cheats on such a woman, deep down he’s gay.)

    nk (875f57)

  197. “were” as in “are”, nk.

    We know that Muslims are people, and hence are individuals with a spectrum of beliefs. I once would have called myself a “Christian” because I live in America and wasn’t something else, not that I had a clue as to what was in the Bible.

    I imagine there are many people who consider themselves Muslim who do not listen to see which trees say, “Hey, there’s a Jew hiding behind me”.
    But there are others who call themselves Muslim who believe that all living people should submit to Islam, and if they will not they do not deserve to live.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  198. Islam does mean submission. And its central tenet is militant conversion. No argument, there.

    But, also, no living person is beyond the Grace of God. No one damned until Judgment Day. It’s another tenet.

    Literacy is one of the requirements of Islam. Everybody must be able to read the Koran. The most militant ignore this, illiterates enforcing a Koran they have never read.

    nk (875f57)

  199. Agreed, nk. While it may be offensive to some, I think there is some similarity in the stream of thought that opposes translation of the Koran from Arabic into native languages and the previous opposition in translating the Bible from Latin into the languages used by the public.

    One would be hard pressed, by current trends of thought, to know that a major reason for education in the US was to train people to read the English Bible for themselves so they would not be dependent/subject to the teachings of others.

    I agree that no living person is beyond the grace of God, but that does require a reckoning with truth, not the wishful thinking of those who think that once you get those people who believe in absolutes in morality out of the way everyone will live happily together in amoral bliss.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  200. I have read the Koran in English, in two versions. The traditional, which is the chronological way the Prophet wrote it; and another translator’s way, re-arranging the chapters, to make it more readable. Don’t matter, I know how to read.

    Wasted a whole three credit hours in law school studying Thomas Moore, now a saint. (Loyola, Jesuit.) He burned somebody for the first translation of The Bible from the Vulgate to English.

    nk (875f57)

  201. From the “You simply cannot make this stuff up” file:
    The EU received the Nobel Peace Prize on Monday for promoting peace and human rights in Europe following the devastation of World War II
    About 20 European government leaders attended the ceremony in the capital of Norway, an oil-rich country that has twice rejected joining the European Union.

    Icy (61ee7b)

  202. Jesus [forgive me Lord] Christ!

    Norway, the land of Quisling.

    nk (875f57)

  203. BTW, I have three degrees of seperation from the queen of England. ;)

    Comment by nk (875f57) — 12/10/2012 @ 1:56 am

    And here, I thought you were the Queen of England … ;-)

    SPQR (768505)

  204. Icy, heros are getting hard to find. It is hard to give it to Obama again until the seas start falling or the Arab lands are at peace, hard to give it to the AGW crowd again until hurricanes stop and we are at a consensus that the world is at an optimum temperature, even hard to give it to a third world democracy advocate, because some of them had the gall to be supportive of Bush trying to set the world free of tyrants like the Taliban and Hussein.

    Besides, it is true that after centuries of fighting between England and France and Spain and Germany and Russia in some combination, including two big ones only 25 years or so apart in the first half of the 1900′s, Europe has now gone on for over 60 years without a major war. So, in a world where courage and standing on principle seems to be in short supply, it was a safe and reasonable choice.
    It would be nice if it was otherwise.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  205. The EU did nothing to keep peace in Europe. NATO did that. The US and the UK kept peace in Europe (to what extent there was, discounting the brutality of the Soviet occupations, the Balkan war in the ’90′s etc.)

    SPQR (768505)

  206. Thanks for the correction, SPQR. I guess NATO would have been a far better choice even with my limited rationalization; but then again, NATO means military enforcement which is contrarian to those who are in charge of making such decisons about the awards.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  207. 207. Point taken. My ancestors populated Europe, by force, unseamed Frenchies, Scots, Brits, Spaniards and discovered the New World.

    What’s left of them on their native soil gives peace prizes to death cultists and hoards seeds.

    Gene rot in situ

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  208. Some radio host in Australia (unconvincingly or it should have been unconvincing) pretended to be the Queen of England, with and then the nurse who accepted the impersonation committed suicide.

    She must have really be scared of violating hospital rules on privacy.

    http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/12/07/british-nurse-commits-suicide-after-taking-prank-call-about-kate-middleton-from-australian-djs/

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  209. audio-australian-djs-prank-call-kate-middletons-hospital-to-get-information-on-condition-and-it-works

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  210. Peter Funt, the son of the founder of Candid Camera, Allen Funt, says it is not their fault.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/opinion/sunday/the-jokes-on-whom.html?_r=0

    We always worried about what might go wrong, particularly involving the physical and emotional health of unsuspecting subjects…..Even a radio broadcast heard only in Australia would not seem too damaging for a “victim” in Britain. But a viral prank that flashes around the globe on radio, TV, the Internet and newspapers can make even a silly joke seem to carry the weight of the world…..In my view, the Australian D.J.’s did nothing wrong other than attempt a sophomoric gag that had an awful, but unpredictable, consequence. Yet everything is magnified and made permanent in the digital environment.

    Pranksters must always be accountable for their actions, but in the digital age the burden of responsibility also lies with those who use the echo chamber to amplify things to the point of distortion and stress.

    He thinks it’s those people who kept on forwarding the audio who caused the tragedy, if anybody did, not the people who did the original radio broadcast.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  211. BTW, I have three degrees of seperation from the queen of England.

    Comment by nk (875f57) — 12/10/2012 @ 1:56 am

    And here, I thought you were the Queen of England …

    Comment by SPQR (768505) — 12/10/2012 @ 8:20 am

    It’s true. My daughter’s godparents are important in Serbia and Montenegro. Close to the executive of both countries. And I have a sterling silver gentleman’s pocket knife given as a gift by the King (well “Pretender” the crown having being abolished for some time now) of Montenegro.

    nk (875f57)

  212. MD in Philly, I apologize if my comment seemed critical of you, my friend.

    SPQR (5e732c)

  213. Stalin kept his word that he gave in Yalta.

    Tito did all he could to help us keep ours. To restore democracy, of a sort, to Nazi-occupied lands.

    Maybe it was only because they had no choice in the face of a nuclear America. Or maybe because the devastation the Nazis caused needed healing, not more war.

    nk (875f57)

  214. You do know that Tito was our ally aqainst the Nazis in WWII? We parachuted weapons and men to him, to fight them?

    nk (875f57)

  215. My great grandfather went to different schools together with King George I of Greece.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  216. My great grandfather went to different schools together with King George I of Greece.

    Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/10/2012 @ 3:11 pm

    Mine ran away from Crete to Mani after killing a Turk, about that time.

    daleyrocks, do you like me again?

    nk (875f57)


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