You asked: “Where, precisely, do you find in a “Jesus Camp” any indoctrination to go out and kill other people?”

The answer is easily found in the documentary “Jesus Camp” which portrays small children dressed in military gear and armed with symbolic weapons, taught to hate people of other religions by megachurch pastors like Haggard. It’s worth seeing.

“The kid scrounging for food is in danger because his parents put him there. When your parents, or the people your parents support, start shooting at a much more powerful neighbor, those parents have placed their own children in danger.”

Bingo, you just validated abortion on demand. By tying the fate of the child to any actions undertaken on the part of the parents, you cement the basic moral argument that government should NOT overstep the family bounds to preserve life.

On the other hand, your definition is simply wrong in many cases. It doesn’t cover a kid whose parents were slaughtered, or any kid whose parents oppose Hamas and the idea of bombing Israel, fighting for peace every day. Suppose too there were Palestinians doing everything right according to you, but live in the same proximity of a terrorist and get caught in the blast?

The IDF knows this is inevitable, they even set estimates of collateral casualty counts before they greenlight any strike against a HVT. But their “acceptable” ratio is set so high, it’s been a PR nightmare, blowing back worldwide criticism.

Are conservatives so dim they think “Palestinians” are all like-minded? It was only 2006 when moderate Fatah forces engaged Hamas in a full on Civil War, fighting against the anti-Israel charter and calling for a two-state solution.

So your call to kill Palestinian children would clearly lump in completely, totally, 100% innocent kids of completely innocent parents. You are now painted into a corner and must explain why ALL Palestinian children deserve to die without sounding prejudice – but also — must thread the needle to explain why the government should step in to preserve a fetus against the wishes of a mother seeking an abortion. We await the response.

You said: “Golda Meir once said that there would be peace in the Middle East once the Arabs learned to love their children more than they hated Israel; that time has not yet arrived.”

Now you just validated the surrender of the French to the Nazis. They obviously loved their children more then they hated the Germans, right? And Bush hated Saddam more than 4,400 American soldiers, right?

Not that simple – Meir said this in 1957 when the Arab world was just realizing Palestine was being wrested away. They vowed they would resist for generations, just like the Native Americans, just like many societies in history. Forced assimilation is a torturously slow process, but it explains why the Mid East has been in turmoil for our entire lifetimes.

CR Dana holds the view that Israel should have made the whole thing ‘clean’ and wiped the Palestinians off the map a long time ago – but since it’s inception, Israel and the League of Nations/UN has also had contingents fighting for humane treatment and civil rights for the Palestinians.

CR Dana saying we should speed the process up via ethnic cleansing and genocide. Well, that was the preferred method before the age of enlightenment.

To Dave: When you falsely said Israelis are “Accidently killing Palestinian babies”, aren’t you accusing them of incompetence? You must know all modern military forces have tactical actuaries that estimate casualty counts ahead of time, and technologies like infra-red scanners tell them exactly how many warm bodies are in a building before they strike it. Bibi has already acknowledged he is intentionally killing civilian families when he calls out Hamas for use of ‘human shields’.

“Then we heard about the kid-killing done by Turks and others through history. OK, but does that describe the modern American standpoint?”

Dave said: How modern? Hamburg, Tokyo, Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki?

Good point, but FDR is held up as an economic liberal, not a social liberal – he was protested for interring innocent Japanese, stacking the courts and more. I haven’t heard Truman was a liberal hero and it was Albert Einstein who led opposition to the use of the atomic bomb on civilians, admitting he had created a frankenstein.

So I’ll tell you “how modern” – it’s only been since the 60s-70s that we as a society realized spanking kids is counterproductive, it models violence which will fester and only reoccur stronger in the long term. Similarly, a war power that greatly outmatches an enemy must think about a response that will actually deter them, not escalate. The whole idea of terrorism is to provoke, to draw a larger power out into a conspicuous ideological struggle to help the underdog promote and recruit.

When the larger power overreacts, the terrorists get lots of propaganda for their PR department. Look at the growth of al Qaeda which is bigger and more popular today than it ever was. They easily recruit by publishing pictures of US troops torturing and sexually humiliating detainees.

Look at the news and protests today against Israel for their 100-to-1 policy of “spanking” Hamas. They have no military reason to enter ceasefire talks, the Iron Dome is holding almost all missiles in abeyance and they can penetrate Gaza like butter.

Israel is being forced to do this because of bad press.

There is a school of thought that says bombing the general populace incentivizes them to take up active resistance and help root out the insurgents. But they need arms – Afghanistan taught us sometimes the people are too poor and unable, and Iraqi death squads taught us average people can’t easily take on today’s militias.

To SPQR: Cheers!

You should really stop embarrassing yourself with moronic statements like this. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

Yeah, and if you believe Hamas about anything at all, you need to be forcibly sterilized.

I’m on the coat hanger, who’s with me?

How modern?

Hamburg, Tokyo, Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki?

How many kids do you figure liberal heroes, Roosevelt and Truman fried in order to win their war?

LOL.

Pro-”Choice” position: Deliberately killing American babies is a right. Accidently killing Palestinian babies is a heinous crime.

Just because right wing Israelis and Americans decide this is “war”, does that mean it really is? Definitely NOT, according to the US Constitution, and even if it was, specifically killing kids is violates international war crime conventions. Hamas is saying Israel is intentionally targeting civilians, which gives them the excuse for fighting back in a neverending cycle of violence.

It’s not war, “according to the US Constitution?” Considering that our Constitution specifies only the process through which the United States declares war, just how silly is it for you to assume that because we have not declared war in a fight between two sides which are not American that it isn’t a war?

The description of jihad school described above is eerily similar to the indoctrination of American kids in the movie Jesus Camp, featuring Ted Haggard. Let’s try an exercise, say there is a Palestinian kid that doesn’t go to jihad school, her parents aren’t militants, she just spends all day scrounging for food. Do the “conservatives” in this forum agree with CR Dana that the kid deserves execution, simply because “Palestinian” describes her?

More silliness. Where, precisely, do you find in a “Jesus Camp” any indoctrination to go out and kill other people?

The kid scrounging for food is in danger because his parents put him there. When your parents, or the people your parents support, start shooting at a much more powerful neighbor, those parents have placed their own children in danger.

Golda Mier once said that there would be peace in the Middle East once the Arabs learned to love their children more than they hated Israel; that time has not yet arrived.

I see I touched a nerve, the hypocrisy of the pro-life view against the trigger happy pro-war view which sees refugees and bystanders as enemies, because they fall under a label of some kind, even when their “official” government is at the negotiating table.

Just because right wing Israelis and Americans decide this is “war”, does that mean it really is? Definitely NOT, according to the US Constitution, and even if it was, specifically killing kids is violates international war crime conventions. Hamas is saying Israel is intentionally targeting civilians, which gives them the excuse for fighting back in a neverending cycle of violence.

The description of jihad school described above is eerily similar to the indoctrination of American kids in the movie Jesus Camp, featuring Ted Haggard. Let’s try an exercise, say there is a Palestinian kid that doesn’t go to jihad school, her parents aren’t militants, she just spends all day scrounging for food. Do the “conservatives” in this forum agree with CR Dana that the kid deserves execution, simply because “Palestinian” describes her?

Can CR Dana offer an excuse for why that kid deserves to be murdered? Maybe a pro-life couple in Tennessee could adopt her instead?

Then we heard about the kid-killing done by Turks and others through history. OK, but does that describe the modern American standpoint? Has the War on Terror changed our morality so that we sound like those backwards, fundamentalist dead-enders?

Next, think of it from a fiscally conservative standpoint. The US War on Terror took al Qaeda from membership of under 500 to over 50,000 today, a complete and utter failure to contain the problem and walking right into the trap set by bin Laden, who bragged his main intention is to see us spin our wheels till we bleed to death economically like the USSR.

The Afghanistan war is achieving bin Laden’s aim, with the Iraq war thrown in to speed the process – but an extra bonus for bin Laden is the way our “conservatives” now define their morality – they now say we should fight fire with fire, a “holy war” where we torture, render and ignore the human rights advances we fought for, spearheaded by Ronald Reagan.

When we treat terror cells like nations, declare war, go into debt to fund ground wars, we are fulfilling the wishes of bin Laden who knew this was a flea attacking a giant and that he had to get into our head.

I am not telling Israel what to do, the problem of rockets incoming has no easy answer, but the debate in Knesset is healthy and diverse, with a lot of support for the plight of non-militants caught up in the crossfire. What I’m positive we should NOT do is call for the killing of Palestinian CHILDREN, a cowardly idea.