Yes–It sounds crazy to charge property taxes for fire engines and police cars–But there is a societal cost for those things too–As well as placing XX% of property “off limits” to private/commercial uses and taxes.

The “Muni” bonds (which are usually nearly/fully income tax free) are purchased by the 1% to avoid taxes…

And those of us who can’t avoid taxes (except by going “Galt” and giving up on work), end up paying much more (NJ property tax rate is 2+x higher than California’s–And is going up again “because of Sandy”) while the 1% and the 4,359,380 (2011 FTE) government employees.

Milhouse – Exactly. Which is why my comment said “You can avoid it be being a member of certain religious groups” and you countered with an idiotic statement not related to the comment, just like the strawman you raised about:

“so it’s certainly not a tax on merely existing”

Because you believed it was the topic of the subthread although you were specifically addressing a comment of mine in which it was not raised.

If you don’t want people to treat you like a jackass, try not to act like one.

Obama Wins 8 of the Nation’s 10 Wealthiest Counties

In an election that often focused on debates about class warfare, President Barack Obama was favored over multimillionaire businessman Mitt Romney in eight of the nation’s 10 wealthiest counties.

And his margin of victory in all eight counties was greater than that of the national vote, in which Obama was leading by 50 percent to 48 percent with 97 percent of precincts reporting.

And now that the California Gov/Legislatures do not even need Republicans to show up anymore (super majorities in both houses):

Calif. lawmaker may propose tripling vehicle registration fees

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (KFSN) — A controversial plan to raise the cost of registering your car in California could soon be in the works in Sacramento. Even with the Democrats’ new supermajority, there are doubts lawmakers will be able to push through another tax.

In what could be the Democrats’ first test in the new supermajority powers in the Legislature, a group called Transportation California has asked St. Sen. Ted Lieu, D-Torrance, to introduce legislation to triple the vehicle license fee you pay to register your cars.

They want it to be a constitutional amendment so the money will dedicated to roads, which means voters would still have to approve it. The proposed formula is 1.35 percent of the value of the vehicle. It could raise as much as $4 billion a year for roads and public transit, both of which have been underfunded for years because of the budget crisis.

A small home in Nevada with a few acres/well/solar panels–And a mail box to claim Nevada residency and park vehicles there (rotate to California to avoid mandatory registration when needed–keep old car for daily use with cheaper registration) is starting to look cost effective even in this climate.

The Republicans may be the party of the rich–But the Democratics are able to sell the rich on self emulation through crony capitalism and government employment.

Have to research the whole “I am not a resident of California for tax purposes” issue.

The luxury yacht excise was targeted at what the Dems at the time thought were R fat cats. The Bushes and their ilk. Yeah, it would hit the Kennedys too, but they’re not the real core of the D elite today. Those people have mansions in California and Aspen, and private planes, but they don’t tend to run to yachts, I don’t think. Except John Kerry.

But I also have issues with government properties/lands being taxed exempt too (in much of the western US, the US government is the largest land “owner”).

In our area (SF Bay Area), so much farm land has been placed into various “green trusts” (private/public entities) that don’t allow people to use the property), that the counties are running out of property to tax.

Federal Lands in the US:

This map details the percentage of state territory owned by the federal government. The top 10 list of states with the highest percentage of federally owned land looks like this:

Nevada 84.5%
Alaska 69.1%
Utah 57.4%
Oregon 53.1%
Idaho 50.2%
Arizona 48.1%
California 45.3%
Wyoming 42.3%
New Mexico 41.8%
Colorado 36.6%

Connecticut 0.4%
Rhode Island 0.4%
Iowa 0.8%
New York 0.8%
Maine 1.1%
Kansas 1.2%
Nebraska 1.4%
Alabama 1.6%
Ohio 1.7%
Illinois 1.8%

“so it’s certainly not a tax on merely existing.”

Milhouse – Not sure why you even raised this point since it wasn’t even part of my comment.

Because it’s the whole point of this sub-thread, it’s the only reason we’re discussing it in the first place. We were discussing a tax narrowly designed to hit 0bama’s friends and fan club who are clamouring for higher taxes on other people. I pointed out that a property tax wouldn’t be constitutional, and POA started pulling his nonsense lament about how the 0bamacare decision rendered the entire constitution meaningless and Congress can now do whatever it wants to and no law will ever be struck down again from now unto eternity, because taxing our very existence means we’re all slaves, or some such rubbish. Then you chimed in to support POA. If you agree that the 0bamacare tax is not a tax on our mere existence then you disagree with POA, so I wonder what your point was.

? Religious groups, like all non-profits, are exempt from the income tax too, you know.”

Milhouse – Are you serious? Members of churches are exempt from taxation? When did that go into effect?

Members of churches are not religious groups and are not nonprofits. Churches are religious groups, and since they are nonprofits they are exempt from the income tax.

Nope, all they would have to do is call it a luxury tax on mansions over 7.5 million and voila, it’s a valid tax. You know make it similar to Luxury Yacht Tax that applied to boats costing only $100,000.00 or over.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1993-05-25/news/1993145090_1_luxury-tax-tax-on-boats-boating-industry

It wasn’t ruled unconstitutional, it was only repealed after it had almost destroyed the boat building business and put thousands of people out of work.

More ignorance. The yacht tax was an excise on the purchase of new yachts. It was not a property tax. Property taxes are by definition direct taxes, and Congress can’t impose them without apportionment.

Even for a time, I was exempted from paying into FICA because I was contributing to a Civil Service Retirement Plan. But there is no exemption for this, you will either purchase insurance from private institutions that are approved by the govt., or they will penalize you.

That is in fact an exact parallel; you pay FICA, which is a tax on income, not a penalty, unless you participate in some activity which exempts you, such as an approved retirement plan. In exactly the same way, you pay the 0bamacare tax on your income unless you participate in an approved private insurance plan. You’ve just proved Roberts’s point. FICA doesn’t force you to participate in the Civil Service plan; you could choose not to, and to pay the tax instead. Similarly 0bamacare doesn’t force you to buy insurance; you could choose to pay the tax instead.

One of the proofs Roberts cites for it being a tax rather than a penalty is that the government expects many people to pay it, and budgeted significant revenue from it. Penalties are by their nature designed to raise little or no money, because everyone will comply with the law and not pay them; if a penalty raises significant money then it’s not doing its job and should be raised. In the case he cites where Congress called something a tax but the Court decided it was a penalty, the “tax” was so high that nobody was paying it, and that was one sign that it wasn’t a tax at all.