Patterico's Pontifications

11/7/2012

Election Results

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 6:42 am

Barack Obama remains president.

The GOP holds the House.

GOP fails to take the Senate, losing races that should have been won.

California passes Jerry Brown’s hike in the sales tax and income tax rates on wealthy individuals. Approves a hike in corporate taxes. Approves a measure to weaken three strikes. Defeats Prop. 32.

California retains the death penalty.

Jackie Lacey is the new D.A., and congratulations to her.

I am going to avoid a post on What It All Means right now. Feel free to weigh in below.

394 Responses to “Election Results”

  1. Gotta go to work.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  2. A small but consistent plurality of Americans (and a larger plurality of Californians) are happy to let government play a major role in the decisions that affect their lives. Or, put in a more blunt way, the are willing to surrender permanent freedom for temporary security.

    JVW (f5695c)

  3. plus we still have christie on board!

    our god he is a merciful god indeed

    happyfeet (4ad8e2)

  4. Also, the Democrats now have supermajorities in both houses of the CA state legislature.

    aphrael (f1d203)

  5. The Supreme Court is centrally important. Jimmy Carter never got any nominations, but we would have to be extremely lucky for that to happen again, and it very probably won’t. So this seems to be a huge loss for the Constitution, the rule of law, democracy, self-government, federalism, and all those other soon-to-be trivialities.

    In my opinion, the outcome of this very close election was determined by Candy Crowley and Steve Kroft. They got their revenge against Republicans, and now Obama will get his revenge too. American journalism is now completely untrustworthy. Happy Days!

    On the bright side, the world still turns, the Sun still shines, and it’s still a mostly wonderful world.

    I suspect that those who seek to console us would instead be consoling themselves, if they knew better.

    Andrew (f350dd)

  6. This national election is a turning point in American culture.

    American’s voted for more free stuff.

    As Margaret Thatcher said, the problem with this is what happens when we run out of other people’s money.

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  7. Oh, and Jerry Brown probably just solidified his reelection two years from now.

    JVW (f5695c)

  8. What it means is that there are no adults in the driver seats, the car is still driving at top speed for the cliff.

    The MSM continues to corruptly misinform the American people – Benghazi alone would have been the end of any Republican president.

    And California continues to commit slow motion suicide toward becoming the Greece of the US – no surprise, I gave up on California in the ’90′s when I got the hell out of the state where I was born and grew up and never looked back.

    A source of amusement for me: Obama must now clean up the mess he “inherited” from the guy who was President from ’09 to ’12 – something he’s never had to do before – clean up his mess – and has shown no ability to do. And he has to do it in two months.

    SPQR (768505)

  9. I wonder what the stock market will do today.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  10. 3. plus we still have christie on board!

    our god he is a merciful jealous god indeed

    Comment by happyfeet — 11/7/2012 @ 6:58 am

    FTFY, Mr. feets.

    Steve57 (320590)

  11. A carry-over from the previous thread: it appears that, alas, Henry Waxman has defeated Bill Bloomfield 54% to 46% for California’s newly redistricted 33rd Congressional District. Perhaps that is a potential pick-up for Republicans in 2014.

    JVW (f5695c)

  12. ___________________________________________

    Jimmy Carter never got any nominations

    But throughout the federal judiciary there are judges who will hand down some type of dumb ruling (eg, along the lines of “homeless people have a right to build a makeshift house on public sidewalks and must be bowed to and hugged by police”), and — even today or during the recent past — a news article about that ruling invariably will have a section that says “Judge John Doe was appointed by Jimmy Carter.” So it’s a gift that keeps on giving, decades following his time in office.

    a slow motion suicide toward becoming the Greece of the US

    And you’re not being snarky when you say that. IOW, the political dynamics in the “Golden state” truly now mirror the off-the-deep-end leftism that Greece and its voters have been embracing since around 1980.

    Mark (66bba6)

  13. I fear that this mean an American Imperium is now virtually inevitable. Jug Ears is comprehensively incompetent on the Middle Eastern front, and the party from which he draws his administration is little better. We will be attacked, and when attacked we will react with outrage (justified or not). Jug Ears will probably be leading the charge, if only on a get out in front of the lynch mob and shout “Follow Me!” basis. The resulting war will be largely over before he leaves office, and insurgencies will result not in feelings of doubt but in increasingly savage retaliation. The world, which has often accused us of lashing out in anger, will get a good look at what a seriously angry United States is like.

    *shudder*

    By the mid-2020′s we will be firmly in charge of most of the Middle East. The oil will be flowing and cheap (amazing how much overhead you can drop if you aren’t paying for an Emir’s worthless relatives). Anti-war protesters over here will be mostly in jail, along with their lawyers. So will a number of loudmouthed academics with poor taste in Radical Chic connections; Bush was too busy to bother with such nonentities. Obama and the Democrats will be looking for scapegoats.

    Our economic problems will be papered over by the early benefits of a foreign policy of conquest. Civil Rights will be up the spout.

    *sigh*

    I won’t live to see the crash, which is one mercy. But it will happen. And we won’t get representative government back once we lose it.

    C. S. P. Schofield (fdfc57)

  14. Romney got fewer votes than McCain 4 years ago. I don’t understand that.

    Amphipolis (d3e04f)

  15. JVW, sad news, Waxman is a vile little bug.

    SPQR (768505)

  16. Here is one thing that the election means: ObamaCare is happening.

    Patterico (0bc440)

  17. Let me be the first to say..HAHA

    Don (8068ca)

  18. If I don’t go on Medicare, Obamacare is a good thing for me. I wil be unisurable, otherwise, without it, when my COBRA expires.

    nk (875f57)

  19. __________________________________________

    ObamaCare is happening.

    And a bigger, more well-funded IRS to ensure that it does.

    We reap what we sow.

    Mark (66bba6)

  20. We’re a pretty robust little republic, California excepted. Things should be OK.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  21. What’s bizarre to me is that the GOP seems to be retaining a large hold on state legislatures and governorships at the same time. A weird schizophrenia among the voters. Example: Wisconsin goes Obama and its legislature stays GOP…

    SPQR (768505)

  22. Told you. The Presidential election is not the only election.

    nk (875f57)

  23. A week before Colorado legalized marijuana for recreational use, Peyton Manning bought 21 Papa John’s franchises.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  24. I don’t think I have ever so despaired for my country. Saying “You voted for it” … and I’m going to be saying that a lot … doesn’t repair the damage. It may be unrepairable.

    htom (412a17)

  25. And as I said on another thread (and told my wife during the primaries “Nobody named Mitt is ever going to get elected POTUS. It’s one of those country club/crested blazer/550SL names.

    glenn (647d76)

  26. And I think I’m going to schedule a vacation in Australia – New Zealand for the weeks of and after 9-11-13.

    htom (412a17)

  27. At the request of our major client (an oil and gas producer), we’re laying off an as-yet-undetermined, but significant, number of people today. Elections have consequences. Without the revenue they produce, we’re no longer viable as a going concern, so it’s only a matter of time before the rest of us join them.

    Diffus (48ae73)

  28. I guess you people are just going to have to complain about Obama for another for years. And then, if Hillary Clinton decides to run in 2016—or if she decides not to run, and after the economy runs its course and improves—then the Democrats will run Andrew Cuomo (and if the conservatives can’t get their act together, and become less of a reactionary party), and he’ll win. And if Hillary runs in 2016, she’ll win—and Andrew Cuomo after her. This means we’ll have at least 8 to 16 more years of a Democratic presidency.

    tadcf (77cf5c)

  29. um….

    The Emperor (5e4aab)

  30. I think I nailed it:

    http://patterico.com/2012/11/05/open-thread-one-day-left-edition/

    Obama has hammered Romney with negative ads for months and Obama/Clinton are continuing to pound the theme that Romney wanted GM to die in the midwest. Romney doesn’t respond to that, which may turn out to be a tactical error in retrospect, but just continues his “We can’t afford four more years” theme. It’ll be interesting to see how late deciders break, particularly in OH. I think the conventional wisdom that they go for the challenger may not work out this time.

    Exit polls showed lots of people made up their minds late and broke for Obama just as I was thinking. The Romney campaign and Republicans generally were somewhat simplistically counting on the normal situation where late deciders break for the challenger.

    They made the tactical error of ignoring attacks. They wanted to stay “on message”. Maybe part of that is that Romney is temperamentally ill suited to that type of campaign. He wanted to stay positive.

    Clinton accusing Romney of being a liar probably hurt also.

    Exit polls show that Romney being rich and not understanding the average person was a factor in many people’s vote. Again that gets back to the attacks.

    What I get from the exit polls is the race was winnable contrary to what many seem to think. Plus Obama only got 50% of the total vote which also clearly suggests a winnable race.

    During the primaries I supported Romney over Gingrich. I rejected the idea there was a significant ideological difference between them which was the main reason Newt supporters gave for supporting him. Romney and Gingrich both occupy the same part of the ideological spectrum. This “establishment Republican” thing that we heard over and over was garbage. People don’t personally like Gingrich and I thought that would prove insurmountable.

    However with 20-20 hindsight I think Newt may have proved the more electable after all. First he wouldn’t have had the rich guy problem and second I think he would have run a different style of campaign that was more aggressive and wouldn’t have ignored attacks. In retrospect that may have been what was needed. Of course they would have come up with some way to demonize Gingrich too so there’s no way to know really.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  31. Tadcf,

    You’re way to optimistic. Before the end of the year, Greece will fall out of the EU, resulting in a global chain reaction of defaulting states. Gas will be at $6/gallon, and “unexpectedly” unemployment will jump back above 10%.

    Xmas (05d9ed)

  32. “A week before Colorado legalized marijuana for recreational use, Peyton Manning bought 21 Papa John’s franchises.”

    Hahahahaha…

    carlitos!

    Leviticus (17b7a5)

  33. Two words:

    Weimer Republic

    gahrie (acbb2d)

  34. Another thing is the hurricane. I said on another thread if Obama wins I’m going to have to conclude God wants Obama to win. Some people here may think I’m cuckoo but I’m feeling that’s probably the case.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  35. Romney got fewer votes than McCain 4 years ago. I don’t understand that.
    Comment by Amphipolis — 11/7/2012 @ 7:25 am

    Really? I find that hard to understand as well if true.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  36. Somehow, people need to be made to understand the real-world effects of political decisions.

    When you have to reduce workers’ hours to 30 or fewer per week to avoid the costs of Obamacare, tell them.

    When the minimum wage forces you to hire fewer employees than you otherwise would, tell the ones who don’t get hired why.

    When the solicitations from charities come this year, tell them that you can’t contribute, that you’re hanging on to your money in anticipation of higher taxes and food and energy prices.

    Tell your landscapers and remodelers that the projects you’ve been considering are on hold for four years.

    Cut back on dining out and other luxuries, and tell the proprietors why.

    If enough people “go Galt,” maybe the message will get through.

    Meanwhile, I’m off to get me an Obamaphone.

    Diffus (48ae73)

  37. Another thing is the hurricane. I said on another thread if Obama wins I’m going to have to conclude God wants Obama to win. Some people here may think I’m cuckoo but I’m feeling that’s probably the case.
    Comment by Gerald A — 11/7/2012 @ 8:13 am

    Sometimes God’s worst judgement is simply letting people get what they want, and not come to the rescue when the consequences mount.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  38. One of my very liberal friends last night posted “We have the Presidency and the Senate. Now we’ll get things done.”

    I didn’t have the heart to burst her bubble, but the ignorance and lack of self-awareness last night was palpable.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  39. Romney got fewer votes than McCain 4 years ago. I don’t understand that.
    Comment by Amphipolis — 11/7/2012 @ 7:25 am

    Really? I find that hard to understand as well if true.

    Comment by MD in Philly — 11/7/2012 @ 8:14 am

    It appears the total votes cast are quite a bit lower than 2008. Obama got a lot less votes than in 2008. So a lot of people did in fact abandon Obama but they didn’t go to Romney.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  40. 27. after the economy runs its course and improves…

    Comment by tadcf — 11/7/2012 @ 7:56 am

    I think I see the problem. Idiots like tadcf think economies are like the weather.

    Dude, this is the course. Nobody is going to invest. Nobody is going to create jobs. You voted yourself a future in which the only uncertainty is how much over-regulation and demonization a job creator is going to have to deal with.

    I wasn’t joking. On another thread I mentioned no one who’s working for me (I have two small businesses) will be working more than 29 hours. That’s what I’ll have to do to avoid the more coercive effects of ObamaCare.

    If this economy wrecking crew starts feeling its oats and becomes more coercive, then I’m out of the business entirely. Everyone’s out of a job. After four years of Obama I’m already making little enough. I’m not doing this for free, let alone at a loss.

    The economy isn’t going to “run it’s course” and get better. The economy is a man made thing. It requires confidence in the future. As long as the man making it is Obama, no one has that. You must not have skin in the game, otherwise you’d understand that.

    Now that this country has seen fit to reelect this joker, everyone like me is just worried about not losing our ass. The choice is between scaling back or getting out of the game entirely.

    Welcome to your new normal.

    Steve57 (320590)

  41. Sometimes God’s worst judgement is simply letting people get what they want, and not come to the rescue when the consequences mount.

    Comment by MD in Philly — 11/7/2012 @ 8:16 am

    Yeah I was thinking that too. Of course whatever happens affects Obama and Romney voters more or less equally. Ironically Obama voters may be somewhat worse off as far as economic consequences. I’m thinking the light bulb may finally go on in some of their heads in the next four years but who knows.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  42. HFSlaN Im grateful for the article post. Keep writing.

    cheap seo services (9ace40)

  43. Just woke up…Prop 30 passed? And they have a supermajority?

    Good Lord, this is much worse than I thought. Now they can raise taxes without any approval of the public whatsoever!

    Which means property taxes are going up too.

    Let the death spiral begin.

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  44. Comment by Chuck Bartowski — 11/7/2012 @ 8:20 am
    Don’t know whether to laugh or cry for that one.

    Comment by Gerald A — 11/7/2012 @ 8:21 am
    Were their more votes for Romney than McCain, but still not as many as Obama?

    I can’t believe there was more voter enthusiasm for McCain than Romney.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  45. Oh, MD in Philly, the market is crashing.

    Of course we all know the market is racist.

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  46. #35

    But I’m thinking that God may have deliberately caused the hurricane to get Obama reelected. Call me cuckoo if you want…

    Gerald A (f26857)

  47. Before elissa comes along and corrects me, by “everyone like me” I meant “many people like me.” Perhaps “most,” if the people like me that I know are any indication.

    Steve57 (320590)

  48. Look at the mess he’s inheriting.

    beer 'n pretzels (6ef50f)

  49. Patricia- Yes, after I posted I heard it was down 300 points (at the time). Even on a conservative talk network they gave 2 possible reasons, neither of which had anything to do with Obama…

    Perhaps Obama getting elected reminded everyone of Bush and how the economy was under him…

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  50. In 2016 will the Dems be talking about how really, really bad the economy was under Bush, and that Bill Clinton couldn’t have even done a better job if given 8 years to fix it?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  51. 35. Sometimes God’s worst judgement is simply letting people get what they want, and not come to the rescue when the consequences mount.

    Comment by MD in Philly — 11/7/2012 @ 8:16 am

    “Take what you want, God said to the red wolf. Take what you want, and pay for it.”

    I forget where I heard that. I think it had something to do with Scotland. But I believe it captures your meaning, Doc.

    Steve57 (320590)

  52. For totally getting the mood of the Nation wrong I only have one excuse to go with being out-of-touch by design and temperament: I used bad data, but crucially my intuitions were mistaken, my reasonings inadequate.

    America chose decline, eyes-wide-shut. I’m shocked but I get the reluctance to embrace change.

    Romney did well, if less well than McCain in result, better than could have reasonably been expected. Detractions at this point can hardly be put on him.

    Rather I’m done with a party that includes Rove, Powell, Coulter and Rubin, et alia.

    Sure they have Rubio, Martinez and Cruz. I wish them well.

    Rasmussen screwed this more than anyone.

    Turnout was down 5% for the GOP. We don’t need tweaks to an old design, new blood behind the wheel, we need a new product.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  53. I’m already telling everyone I know that I have had to drop my employer health insurance and have my family rely on Tricare, because I can’t afford higher cost of my share of the premiums for the Cadillac plan which was their only option which was open to me (you can’t get an HDHI/HSA plan if you are covered by any other insurance, and Tricare counts) after they dropped their lower cost, higher co-pays and deductibles, plan. Not on top of the $60 to $70 dollars a week in new taxes, what with the increase of SS to it’s original 6.2% and the expiration of the “Evil Bush Tax Cuts for the Rich(tm)”. I think all of my family will be getting nice cards saying that thanks to the impending tax increases, we will not be giving Christmas presents this year. Only having to find stuff for my children and husband will make it much easier. And I know that every one of my blood relatives voted for Ø.

    LibraryGryffon (06c781)

  54. The MSM continues to corruptly misinform the American people – Benghazi alone would have been the end of any Republican president.

    This is true, and Jack Marshall explains it here.

    American’s voted for more free stuff.

    While many did, I wonder how many voted due to the news media ” the news media [distorting] coverage of both the campaign and the issues to an obscene degree”

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  55. California is screwed. I wonder who the Cali dems are going to blame when the state has to default on its contracts?

    kinlaw (2fb87c)

  56. 44. And for the Nor’easter we today receive, much obliged.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  57. gary, if this country was stupid enough to elect four more years of Obama I don’t see what good coming up with a new product is going to do.

    Steve57 (320590)

  58. 42. McCain nearly reached 60M, 3M more than Romney and virtually the same as antiChrist this time out.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  59. .

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  60. I find it very, very, very hard to believe that after 4 years of Obama more R’s weren’t interested in getting out and voting than in 2008, no matter what the numbers say.

    Does anyone have an explanation why this would be so?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  61. 55. Simple, we’re not going to win with this system of incremental progressivism and this system is in any case passing away.

    Let’s abandon mutual tolerance and respect altogether, sh*t can “loyal opposition”.

    The end is near, possibly arriving before a new party can come into existence, but if not let’s help usher telos, fini along.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  62. #38 is dead on.

    Joseph D (df2d9e)

  63. Voter turnout in WE was greater than 2008 and Repubs were also higher than 2008. But from a Milwaukee sentinal article:

    Most voters here regarded the economy as “not good” or “poor,” but they were divided on whether it is getting better or worse. And more (54%) said former President George Bush was to blame than said Obama was to blame (41%).

    Believed lies of 4 years ago now have the imprimatur of public consciousness, whether true or not.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  64. WE WI

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  65. gary, if this country was stupid enough to elect four more years of Obama I don’t see what good coming up with a new product is going to do.

    I doubt that is a sufficient explanation.

    Yes, we all know the truth about Obama. But the broadcast and print media networks hide the truth about Obama. “Benghazi alone would have been the end of any Republican president”, as SPQR pointed out.

    What if the media had buried Watergate?

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  66. 61. Your point about God giving people what they urgently ask for is certainly scriptural.

    WI, next to ND, is currently leading the nation in growth.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  67. We thrive when we have a robust two-party system when both sides are willing to work things out. Reagan is a case in point, and Clinton as well.

    Republicans are losing the demographic race. This, in my view, was the main campaign flaw this cycle by Republicans. George W Bush was concerned that his party was becoming less inclusive; you folks did not listen.

    It is also noteworthy that more money and well endowed Super PACs did not carry the day.

    An ideology aimed at lifting all boats, and cooperation between the parties, is what this nation needs, starting today. Let us see if we can all step up to the task, finally.

    Perry (564829)

  68. However with 20-20 hindsight I think Newt may have proved the more electable after all. First he wouldn’t have had the rich guy problem and second I think he would have run a different style of campaign that was more aggressive and wouldn’t have ignored attacks. In retrospect that may have been what was needed. Of course they would have come up with some way to demonize Gingrich too so there’s no way to know really.

    Comment by Gerald A — 11/7/2012 @ 8:05 am
    Not even close. Newt does not have the kind of appeal that would cause anyone to choose him over Obama. If anything he comes across as a fat angry, petty old man. Just imagine him standing side by side with the president in a debate, Obama would have won easily the physical appearance vote as well as likability. It’s a shame to admit it but Americans seem to vote based on physical appeal. This was why the race between Obama and Romney was close; Romney looked physically handsome and presidential, this is apart from his policies. He looked good in the camera. That always helps in a presidential race in this generation of visual-driven America.

    The Emperor (5e4aab)

  69. 63. I think the operative impulse is that of the miser squeezing every penny ’til blood oozes from his fingers’ pores.

    The academics and retired folk of my acquaintance voting for Spokesmodel of their inheritance and simply interested in their bottom line. The know his record is brutal, and occasionally admit as much.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  70. I find it very, very, very hard to believe that after 4 years of Obama more R’s weren’t interested in getting out and voting than in 2008, no matter what the numbers say.

    Does anyone have an explanation why this would be so?

    Comment by MD in Philly — 11/7/2012 @ 8:47 am

    Because Romney was a crappy candidate. All the blogs I read and all the people I talked to was all about “Vote against the other guy” instead of “Vote for our guy”. That’s a problem. Romney had no vision and no personality.

    Patrick H (f854d7)

  71. So Tillman, I know you are lurking. When the economy goes into the sh***er in the next 6 months are you going to come back and apologize for being wrong?

    Oh wait, that’s right, it will still be Bush and the Republicans fault.

    PS: market is down 300 on the “good news”

    kinlaw (2fb87c)

  72. Republicans are losing the demographic race. This, in my view, was the main campaign flaw this cycle by Republicans. George W Bush was concerned that his party was becoming less inclusive; you folks did not listen.

    How is it losing the demographic race?

    All the blogs I read and all the people I talked to was all about “Vote against the other guy” instead of “Vote for our guy”. That’s a problem. Romney had no vision and no personality.

    Which begs the question of why Republicans voted for Romney, instead of Ron Paul, in the primaries.

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  73. 65. Let’s digest, state by state, the exit polls. Your hypothesis may well be operative in some regions, but it does not explain low Republican turnout with a 20 point swing in Indie support.

    Bipartisan turnout was off a full 10% and it looks like the Indies took part in staying home in droves.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  74. 67. Yes, but not ‘news’, the whole argument for chosing Romney failed, obamanably.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  75. As Margaret Thatcher said, the problem with this is what happens when we run out of other people’s money.

    Comment by AZ Bob — 11/7/2012 @ 7:11 am

    Don’t worry, we’ve got all eternity of posterity to loot. Posterity…what did the little brats ever do for us, anyway?

    The Sanity Inspector (0472b5)

  76. Yes, we all know the truth about Obama. But the broadcast and print media networks hide the truth about Obama. “Benghazi alone would have been the end of any Republican president”, as SPQR pointed out.

    What if the media had buried Watergate?

    Comment by Michael Ejercito — 11/7/2012 @ 8:57 am

    Watergate broke in the weeks before the ’72 election, and didn’t have enough time to affect it. The scandal still sank Nixon over the next year & a half, though. Hillary Clinton is stepping down, and no doubt the administration hopes she’ll carry away the burden of guilt for Benghazi with her.

    The Sanity Inspector (0472b5)

  77. PS: market is down 300 on the “good news”

    Comment by kinlaw — 11/7/2012 @ 9:08 am

    Don’t buy Facebook. Actually, don’t buy stocks or bonds at all. Invest in cash. Soros’s advice, and when it comes to money, nobody knows more than him. Don’t throw your money away, to make Wall Street richer.

    The main reason the stock market is down, BTW, is because the brokers and managers are the ones who are nervous, churning the accounts to maintain their fees and commissions.

    nk (875f57)

  78. 72. To give props where due, I think Mark repeatedly expressed fear of this outcome.

    People want what they want, they want it now, and they want someone else to pay for it all.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  79. What’s bizarre to me is that the GOP seems to be retaining a large hold on state legislatures and governorships at the same time. A weird schizophrenia among the voters. Example: Wisconsin goes Obama and its legislature stays GOP…

    SPQR, tell me what you think about the following idea: The GOP is doing well in the states because virtually all states have a balanced budget requirement. This means that the lavish promises that government makes has to be paid for with a robust economy or with higher taxes. People have figured out that what state government delivers is not worth what they are charged for it so they turn to the GOP to hold the line. Conversely, on the federal level we can just continue to run huge deficits and print money so Democrats are able to propose all sorts of freebies for the populace without any requirement to actually pay for it. Of course, this can’t last forever, but it appears to have gotten Dear Leader through until 2016.

    JVW (f5695c)

  80. “Because Romney was a crappy candidate. All the blogs I read and all the people I talked to was all about “Vote against the other guy” instead of “Vote for our guy”. That’s a problem. Romney had no vision and no personality.”

    Patrick H. – Which liberal blogs do you read?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  81. It’s survival mode for me. I use to donate close to 3000 dollars a year, (And I’m in the low income bracket)but not anymore. I’m done helping people because I need to take that money and brace myself for the tax increases soon to follow.

    Antonio (3c3506)

  82. If Romney had managed to pull it out he would have faced a Harry Reid led Senate so he couldn’t have gotten anything done anyway. It may be that if the economy plummets now as many expect he’ll have reason to think “Maybe it’s better I didn’t win”, although I doubt he’ll think that. This may turn out to be a pyrrhic victory for the Dems. I doubt this has occurred to them as of now.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  83. How is it losing the demographic race?

    The demographics are changing, to which the Republicans have not yet figured out how to respond in elections. Basically, Republicans are a white party at a time when whites are becoming a smaller fraction of the total population.

    Perry (564829)

  84. 79. “pyrrhic”

    Indeed. There might be some debate about whether a ‘conservative’, like the Great Communicator, could have swung the Senate along with winning.

    But plainly, we had the zeitgeist wrong. The 47% aren’t breaking up, just yet. They’ll have to cohabit through some tough times ahead.

    Then we’ll see whether opportunity knocks.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  85. 80. “Republicans are a white party”

    Change that to “party of self-reliance” and you might win a few ears.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  86. 65. …An ideology aimed at lifting all boats, and cooperation between the parties, is what this nation needs, starting today. Let us see if we can all step up to the task, finally.

    Comment by Perry — 11/7/2012 @ 9:00 am

    How does an ideology aimed at lifting all boats work things out with an ideology aimed at sinking all boats, Perry may man?

    Steve57 (320590)

  87. Republicans are a white party at a time when whites are becoming a smaller fraction of the total population.

    You see race. I see it differently: Democrats are a takers party at a time when takers are becoming a larger fraction of the total population.

    beer 'n pretzels (6ef50f)

  88. Seriously Perry. I realize you’ve got all the solutions. So solve the problems in the middle east. What compromise do you suggest Israel should work out with the governments and organizations that surround it dedicated to the destruction of Israel? Do tell.

    Steve57 (320590)

  89. 80. Republicans are a white party at a time when whites are becoming a smaller fraction of the total population.

    Comment by Perry — 11/7/2012 @ 9:31 am

    So you’re saying the stereotypes are true. The brown party is the party of lazy butts and free stuff.

    Steve57 (320590)

  90. Romney got fewer votes than McCain 4 years ago. I don’t understand that.
    Comment by Amphipolis — 11/7/2012 @ 7:25 am

    – Romney got 2 million fewer voted than McCain did 4 years ago; Obama got 9 million fewer votes. Turnout was down.

    Icy (4531d0)

  91. All major stock market indices are down today.

    Icy (4531d0)

  92. “votes”. Stupid iPhone.

    Icy (4531d0)

  93. Back @83 I failed to properly frame the issue. Sorry.

    The Obama/Reid/Pelosi regime hasn’t even gotten around to the question of raising or sinking boats.

    So, Perry my man, how does the party of building boats work things out with the party of you didn’t build that boat?

    Steve57 (320590)

  94. 80. …when whites are becoming a smaller fraction of the total population.

    Comment by Perry — 11/7/2012 @ 9:31 am

    You mean, like taxpayers?

    Steve57 (320590)

  95. “If Romney had managed to pull it out he would have faced a Harry Reid led Senate so he couldn’t have gotten anything done anyway.”

    Gerald A. – Obama unexpectedly turning out his base had a direct impact on the outcome of the Senate races, so I think your premise is flawed. The same issues would have been there one way or another to tar Republicans with.

    Contrary to your assertions above, Romney performed well, running a positive campaign which addressed the issues facing this country and picked up enthusiasm and momentum along the way. Obama, in contrast, ran a campaign of pure negativity and divisiveness, dodging the issues and his record and presenting no case for reelection and consistently losing support as the campaign progressed.

    Place the blame where it belongs, on American voters and media willing to distort the truth, not the GOP.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  96. Reprising my point from before, I think it still is “the economy, stupid”, but that many people do think the bad economy is still Bush’s fault, as evidenced by this finding in WI:
    Most voters here regarded the economy as “not good” or “poor,” but they were divided on whether it is getting better or worse. And more (54%) said former President George Bush was to blame than said Obama was to blame (41%).

    The average person who does not make a point of digging into the news heard for years about the “bad” Bush economy and the “jobless recovery”. What the numbers are doesn’t matter, what the truth is doesn’t matter. All people remember is “GW Bush, bad economy”. Then they here Obama say, “Do you want to go back to the policies that got us into this mess?” “Well, that doesn’t make much sense” many voters think, and the over all gestalt makes it reasonable to vote for Obama.

    The problem is 54% of the people in WI actually thought the facts of the matter supported Obama’s position. How many other issues are as poorly informed?

    I don’t think we need to play political strategies other than how to get true information presented and understood.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  97. Here is one thing that the election means: ObamaCare is happening.
    Comment by Patterico — 11/7/2012 @ 7:28 am

    – Also, Ginsburg and Breyer can now safely retire; Scalia and/or Thomas, not so much. And Roberts’s chickens are about to come home to roost.

    Icy (4531d0)

  98. “Basically, Republicans are a white party at a time when whites are becoming a smaller fraction of the total population.”

    Perry – Basically, Democrats are the party of identity politics, pandering to the needs of its constituencies every four years which are often in conflict, rather than focusing on the what is good for the country as a whole.

    Would you rather be the party of pander or the party of America?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  99. For CA it means that the next shoe to drop will be a further reduction in her credit rating by Moody’s/S&P/etc, plus more cities and/or counties entering into bankruptcy due to the pension short-fall and more lawyers being hired to fight it out with CalPers over whether or not those pension/health benefits can be discharged in a Federal Bankruptcy Court.
    Then, there will be a further slowing of the above-ground economy as businesses stop hiring (even for replacements) and/or increase their movement to more friendly climes (TX anyone?).
    We will see further reductions in the quality of the infrastructure as all of that “increased” revenue from Jerry’s tax-bite goes to pay personnel: active and retired.
    Soon, CA will become a net importer of food as EPA regulations will further shut-down the agricultural sector causing massive economic dislocation in the Central/Salinas/Imperial Valley’s.

    Think Michigan/Detroit on steroids.
    It won’t be pretty.
    Soon, “coyotes” will set up shop in L.A.Co. to arrange the smuggling of people back into Mexico.

    And, in our classrooms, the kids will be told that this is all the fault of the Wall Street Bankers, and their Evil Republican friends.

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  100. Which begs the question of why Republicans voted for Romney, instead of Ron Paul, in the primaries.

    Comment by Michael Ejercito — 11/7/2012 @ 9:08 am

    Because Ron Paul is a f#cking loon and would have lost in a 50 state landslide.

    peedoffamerican (b4bdbc)

  101. I personally think they will be carrying out Ginsburg feet-first; I read a story indicating that Obama’s people approached her about retiring last term and she was insulted.

    luagha (5cbe06)

  102. Perry – Basically, Democrats are the party of identity politics, pandering to the needs of its constituencies every four years which are often in conflict, rather than focusing on the what is good for the country as a whole

    I tend to agree with that. But, as vile as identity politics is, it seems to be working for the Democrats, and nothing I’ve seen suggests that the tide will turn against them. Not in what’s left of my lifetime, at least.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  103. “Romney was a crappy candidate. All the blogs I read and all the people I talked to was all about “Vote against the other guy” instead of “Vote for our guy”. That’s a problem. Romney had no vision and no personality.”

    - Patrick H

    That was a big problem, I think. Obama is a spineless empty suit, but a lot of people think he’s charismatic. It was Kerry in reverse: 2004 was all “Vote against Bush”, not “Vote for John Kerry.” Romney was Obama’s Kerry.

    Leviticus (1aca67)

  104. peedoffamerican, Ron Paul isn’t a loon. He’s laughing all he way to the bank. Mostly at the Paulians.

    You don’t see Gary Johnson rushing to give back all those campaign contributions to people who thought he was a Republican, do you?

    No, these people aren’t loons. Their supporters are. And Paul and Johnson know it.

    Steve57 (320590)

  105. .
    Comment by P. Tillman — 11/7/2012 @ 8:44 am

    – Most coherent thing he’s ever written.

    Icy (4531d0)

  106. The 1% has a say:

    http://minx.cc/?post=334735

    As we’ve said before, and played Paul Ryan saying so, after the EU hits the fan, then Japan spins up, and then the US gets hit with a rising cost of borrowing.

    At that point the Fed funds fiscal largesse 100%. At some point stagflation ends and hyperinflation takes off. It could take some years but its baked in the cake already.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  107. It is also noteworthy that more money and well endowed Super PACs did not carry the day.

    It will be interesting to see if this meme is true. Generally the Left does not include union money and man hours in this calculus.

    An ideology aimed at lifting all boats, and cooperation between the parties, is what this nation needs, starting today. Let us see if we can all step up to the task, finally.

    Who is this we? Obama did nothing in his first term to suggest he would work with those that disagree with him. He negotiated in bad faith, demonized those that dared to disagree with him, and is now going to get his revenge.

    Your deep and heartfelt concern is noted, perry.

    JD (ac62a1)

  108. I think I see the problem. Idiots like tadcf think . . .
    Comment by Steve57 — 11/7/2012 @ 8:22 am

    – Sorry. You lost me after that.

    Icy (4531d0)

  109. MD — the Republican fetus worshipers (well, more properly, advertising taring Republicans with that vile message) drove away 3-4% of the women voters from Romney and Republicans in general. Whine that they were afraid; that’s a major motivator for voting for or against someone, and it’s a real fear for a significant part of half of the human race.

    htom (412a17)

  110. California passes Jerry Brown’s hike in the sales tax and income tax rates on wealthy individuals. Approves a hike in corporate taxes.

    Living in which state?

    Steve57 (320590)

  111. Icy @105, I’ll try to be more precise with my wording in the future. If we have one.

    Steve57 (320590)

  112. It is also noteworthy that more money and well endowed Super PACs did not carry the day.
    Comment by Perry — 11/7/2012 @ 9:00 am

    – So, the Citizen’s United decision did not destroy anything? Feel free to share this info with the OWS crowd.

    Icy (4531d0)

  113. How does an ideology aimed at lifting all boats work things out with an ideology aimed at sinking all boats, Perry may man?

    I don’t agree with your characterization, because the stock market would not have doubled and 5.5 million private sector jobs would not have been created since spring 2009.

    You mean, like taxpayers?

    Are you forgetting taxes on SS, Medicare, sales, property, gasoline, cigarette, and booze, Steve? Typical!

    Seriously Perry. I realize you’ve got all the solutions. So solve the problems in the middle east. What compromise do you suggest Israel should work out with the governments and organizations that surround it dedicated to the destruction of Israel? Do tell.

    Keep the sanctions on, since they are working; keep the surveillance going, since it has been informative; work closely with the Israelis to close loopholes, minimize misunderstandings, and update strategies and tactics.

    Perry (564829)

  114. We have to give up the “government doesn’t work” canard. Patterico works for the government, does he not work?

    Look at all the incumbent wins, not just this time but every time. Government works when it works and doesn’t when it doesn’t.

    Reagan used this meme to get in to office, but then proceeded to ensure government didn’t work, creating trillions in deficits for my generation.

    When I worked for the Census, I saw people cheating on forms, so I worked my way up to supervisor and fired them. They told me I was a turncoat, and I told them I was a taxpayer.

    So all we need transparency, honesty, efficiency. All this partisan talk is useless, both sides engage in pay for play and both sides spent money we don’t have, either on defense or entitlement. That’s what needs to end.

    I love the idea of a Republican House as a check on the President. We had real deficit reform under the Clinton/Gingrich tandem, each denying the other’s pet spending.

    Today, the people have spoken and rejected the Bush tax cuts because they are a form of income redistribution and free market interference. True conservatism is fiscal conservatism and that means balancing budgets at the expense of defense and tax cuts.

    Eisenhower didn’t just claim this works he proved it. Tax rates of 70-90% on the wealthy ensured no one was taking money out of the economy, they all reinvested it in business and venture capital. This worked to grow the economy.

    Conversely, Reaganomics in proven NOT to work by it’s deficits. But you really just have to be simple minded to expect that the rich would volunteer to create jobs if they were given special breaks. Ike knew you don’t trust them, you force them, because the rich are often greedy, shiftless bastards.

    So the sooner we return to Conservative Republican fiscal policy, the sooner we can get the country back on track. I hope last night was a final wake up call to neo-cons and their secret billionaire sugar daddies who think money can buy everything.

    Mahalia Cab (5bf5f4)

  115. Perry – Basically, Democrats are the party of identity politics, pandering to the needs of its constituencies every four years which are often in conflict, rather than focusing on the what is good for the country as a whole

    Both parties pander since it is a basic tenet of party politics and winning election. Once the election is over, that’s the time to bridge the gap with solutions to “lift all boats”.

    Perry (564829)

  116. Talking point bots with their haughty faux above the fray attitude are so cute.

    JD (ac62a1)

  117. Hillary Clinton is stepping down, and no doubt the administration hopes she’ll carry away the burden of guilt for Benghazi with her.
    Comment by The Sanity Inspector — 11/7/2012 @ 9:18 am

    – You’re convinced that she’s stepping down? We shall see.

    Icy (4531d0)

  118. Comment by Mahalia Cab

    Thank you, I suppose, for the insufferable New Republic take on events.

    JVW (f5695c)

  119. Reagan used this meme to get in to office, but then proceeded to ensure government didn’t work, creating trillions in deficits for my generation.

    Lie

    JD (ac62a1)

  120. Today, the people have spoken and rejected the Bush tax cuts because they are a form of income redistribution and free market interference. True conservatism is fiscal conservatism and that means balancing budgets at the expense of defense and tax cuts.

    Pure unadulterated drivel

    JD (ac62a1)

  121. Once the election is over, that’s the time to bridge the gap with solutions to “lift all boats”.

    I suppose you can show us where your side has done this, in good faith?

    JD (ac62a1)

  122. Eisenhower didn’t just claim this works he proved it. Tax rates of 70-90% on the wealthy ensured no one was taking money out of the economy

    And bring back all the tax deductions from that era too, right?

    Plus, the SS & Medicare tax at that time was 2.00%. Let’s go back to that, right?

    beer 'n pretzels (6ef50f)

  123. “It is also noteworthy that more money and well endowed Super PACs did not carry the day.”

    JD – I blame the GOP!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  124. Perry, congrats. You are a demonstrated idiot. I realize you can spout administration non-factual talking points.

    No wonder you reject my characterization. My characterization has some bearing on reality. Clearly something you’d rather avoid.

    Steve57 (320590)

  125. For what is is worth, Rush Limbaugh is very aggressively defending Mitt Romney’s campaign on his show today. Like a lot of us, he is discouraged that this election shows that half of Americans now want to live in a European-style social welfare state.

    JVW (f5695c)

  126. “Both parties pander since it is a basic tenet of party politics and winning election. Once the election is over, that’s the time to bridge the gap with solutions to “lift all boats”.”

    Perry – Sure. Since Obama did such a bang up job (I won) doing it in his first term I am expecting him to get right on that given the ultimatums he has already issued regarding taxes and spending.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  127. I personally think they will be carrying out Ginsburg feet-first; I read a story indicating that Obama’s people approached her about retiring last term and she was insulted.
    Comment by luagha — 11/7/2012 @ 10:00 am

    – As well she should be. It isn’t the place of the executive branch to tell a lifetime appointee of the judicial branch to step down. Appearances to the contrary, she doesn’t work for the Obama administration.

    Icy (4531d0)

  128. I suppose you can show us where your side has done this, in good faith?

    I’m not casting blame; but I challenge you with the same question.

    The TARP under Bush and the ARRA under Obama are two examples of some degree of cooperation between the parties.

    Perry (564829)

  129. Notice how the “jobs created” numbers are just made up.

    SPQR (768505)

  130. “No, these people aren’t loons. Their supporters are. And Paul and Johnson know it.”

    Steve57 – So Paul and Johnson are crooks instead of loons? Thanks for clearing that up.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  131. Eisenhower didn’t just claim this works he proved it. Tax rates of 70-90% on the wealthy ensured no one was taking money out of the economy, they all reinvested it in business and venture capital. This worked to grow the economy.

    I’ve seen other people make this lunatic argument. Why wouldn’t somebody want to invest at a lower tax rate but does at a high rate? Can you a numeric example of how the calculation works, where they expect to make a better return at a higher rate?

    Why did the economy boom after Kennedy cut rates?

    Gerald A (f26857)

  132. I’m not casting blame; but I challenge you with the same question.

    Boehner agreed to almost 900 billion in “revenue” during the debt limit negotiations, which the White House then demanded more.

    The “I’m not casting blame” is BS.

    JD (318f81)

  133. The TARP under Bush and the ARRA under Obama are two examples of some degree of cooperation between the parties.

    Both parties are fabulous at spending taxpayer money (or, better yet, money borrowed from future taxpayers), but they haven’t shown much appetite for curbing spending. Especially the President’s party.

    JVW (f5695c)

  134. It’ll be verrrry interesting to see how the GDP and jobs numbers are revised going forward.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  135. Comment by htom — 11/7/2012 @ 10:09 am
    If one puts aside clumsy communication on the topic, if 20% of the nation really wants a president who is for infanticide rather than one who is not, then I for one let them have him/her.

    At least Clinton put up the claim of “rare”, not “any time you want as long as the child hasn’t passed your knees”.

    Yes, some people think human fetuses are important. Usually, unless they are killed before hand, they grow to be newborn babies and then young children and then adults and then older people, who also deserve to live instead of being “put down” when they get to be too inconvenient.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  136. “ARRA under Obama are two examples of some degree of cooperation between the parties.”

    Perry – How many Republican votes in the House and Senate did the ARRA get?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  137. Perry – Sure. Since Obama did such a bang up job (I won) doing it in his first term I am expecting him to get right on that given the ultimatums he has already issued regarding taxes and spending.

    The current ultimatum is Simpson-Bowles, a product of both parties. We have six weeks or so to use S-B as a starting point in order to avoid the fiscal cliff. Certainly you will agree that an compromise agreement has to include tax increases and spending cuts. Where do you come down on the Norquist pledge, daleyrocks?

    Perry (564829)

  138. 111. We have to give up the “government doesn’t work” canard. Patterico works for the government, does he not work?

    Look at all the incumbent wins, not just this time but every time. Government works when it works and doesn’t when it doesn’t.

    Reagan used this meme to get in to office, but then proceeded to ensure government didn’t work, creating trillions in deficits for my generation.

    This is a pure libtard strawman. No conservative says government doesn’t work. Conservatives know that there are many things that are better done by the private sector.

    Are you really that dense, Mahalia? This is just one of Obama’s false choices that you’ve apparently fallen for. And don’t say “we,” as if you’re one of my crowd, comrade.

    When I worked for the Census, I saw people cheating on forms, so I worked my way up to supervisor and fired them. They told me I was a turncoat, and I told them I was a taxpayer.

    So all we need transparency, honesty, efficiency. All this partisan talk is useless,

    Tell that to your “punish our enemies,” “revenge,” “elections have consequences; I won” boyfriend, hon.

    I love the idea of a Republican House as a check on the President. We had real deficit reform under the Clinton/Gingrich tandem, each denying the other’s pet spending.

    Haven’t you noticed? We’re beyond that now. It’s rule by Executive Order and federal regulation.

    Today, the people have spoken and rejected the Bush tax cuts because they are a form of income redistribution and free market interference. True conservatism is fiscal conservatism and that means balancing budgets at the expense of defense and tax cuts.

    What are you smoking, doll?

    Eisenhower didn’t just claim this works he proved it. Tax rates of 70-90% on the wealthy ensured no one was taking money out of the economy, they all reinvested it in business and venture capital. This worked to grow the economy.

    Conversely, Reaganomics in proven NOT to work by it’s deficits. But you really just have to be simple minded to expect that the rich would volunteer to create jobs if they were given special breaks. Ike knew you don’t trust them, you force them, because the rich are often greedy, shiftless bastards.

    So the sooner we return to Conservative Republican fiscal policy, the sooner we can get the country back on track. I hope last night was a final wake up call to neo-cons and their secret billionaire sugar daddies who think money can buy everything.

    Comment by Mahalia Cab — 11/7/2012 @ 10:17 am

    And can I have some?

    Nothing says waking up, like acid in your cup.

    Steve57 (320590)

  139. Today, the people have spoken and rejected the Bush tax cuts because they are a form of income redistribution and free market interference.
    Comment by Mahalia Cab — 11/7/2012 @ 10:17 am

    – The dumb is strong with this one.

    Icy (4531d0)

  140. The Obama defenders are still making up numbers on jobs, trying to count mythical jobs as jobs created by Obama. His economic policies are a failure with employment participation percentages still dropping as people abandon hope of finding work.

    And Simpson-Bowles was rejected by Obama after he appointed the faux commission never intending to pay any attention to it. Hardly “bi partisan”.

    SPQR (768505)

  141. That was a big problem, I think. Obama is a spineless empty suit, but a lot of people think he’s charismatic. It was Kerry in reverse: 2004 was all “Vote against Bush”, not “Vote for John Kerry.” Romney was Obama’s Kerry.
    Comment by Leviticus — 11/7/2012 @ 10:01 am

    Leviticus, please put away your pan-politician hatred for a moment and look at what you are saying. Romney was a successful businessman. He did not just play businessman with his father’s money. He rescued and pulled together an Olympics event. He was a governor of a state. He yearly gives away more of his own money than probably the last 3 Democrat president have combined in their entire lives. (Not counting used underwear, BTW).

    Kerry married into money. He did political theater with medals obtained by military theater. He got famous for doing actions that were consistent with being a traitor. He was a US Senator, which means he gets to flap his lips all day about “my esteemed colleague (who is really a lying POS)…”

    If you think they are equivalent, you need to rethink.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  142. Plus, the SS & Medicare tax at that time was 2.00%. Let’s go back to that, right?
    Comment by beer ‘n pretzels — 11/7/2012 @ 10:26 am

    – Even better, since during Eisenhower’s time there was NO Medicare.

    Icy (4531d0)

  143. daleyrocks @127, actually yes. It’s long been my conviction that these people are crooks. And it’s because of their well cultivated “only men in politics with integrity” Libertarian BS facade they get away with it.

    Steve57 (320590)

  144. Boehner agreed to almost 900 billion in “revenue” during the debt limit negotiations, which the White House then demanded more.

    The “I’m not casting blame” is BS.

    That’s called negotiation, JD, a word which has dropped out of your party’s vocabulary.

    Where is the blame I am casting? Seems you want to, however!

    Perry (564829)

  145. Certainly you will agree that an compromise agreement has to include tax increases and spending cuts

    Yes, it’s always a ten year window where tax increases are up front and spending cuts are backloaded, and the media always buys into it. Sorry, this is no compromise.

    Plus, the “cuts” are almost always a reduction in the increase in spending. Real cuts, up front and compromise could be reached.

    beer 'n pretzels (6ef50f)

  146. Whites are now a smaller percentage of the population.

    And so are blacks.

    Amphipolis (d3e04f)

  147. And while we’re at it, let’s go back to having the military be the size that it was (relative to population and to GDP) during the Eisenhower. Imagine how many “jobs” can be “created” if we reinstate the draft!

    JVW (f5695c)

  148. the one’s idea of “negotiation”- “elections have consequences, we won”

    he can play it that way if he wants, but don’t call it negotiation.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  149. And Simpson-Bowles was rejected by Obama after he appointed the faux commission never intending to pay any attention to it. Hardly “bi partisan”.

    I grant you, SPQR, that was a mistake! Time to revive it now. Let us see if Obama and the Dems do.

    Perry (564829)

  150. That’s called negotiation, JD, a word which has dropped out of your party’s vocabulary.

    Perry — uh, no. The White House and the House Republicans had a deal to raise taxes and cut spending. The numbers were set. At the last instance, liberals convinced Senate Democrats and Harry Reid to demand more in tax increases while keeping the same level of spending cuts, and Obama was way too weak to steamroll them and push it through without his support, even though they probably could have rounded up 50 votes plus Joe Biden as the tie-breaker.

    To the degree that there wasn’t a deal, it was because Obama was too feckless to honor the agreement he reached with Boehner.

    JVW (f5695c)

  151. “Leviticus, please put away your pan-politician hatred for a moment and look at what you are saying. Romney was a successful businessman. He did not just play businessman with his father’s money. He rescued and pulled together an Olympics event. He was a governor of a state. He yearly gives away more of his own money than probably the last 3 Democrat president have combined in their entire lives. (Not counting used underwear, BTW).”

    - MD in Philly

    I didn’t mean to compare Romney to Kerry at a personal level. I don’t have a lot of respect for Romney, but I have a lot more respect for Romney than I do for Kerry. What I meant was that the incumbent/challenger dynamic seemed the same in both elections. Kerry was the figurehead for an unsuccessful Anybody But Bush movement. Romney was the figurehead for an unsuccessful Anybody But Obama movement. People didn’t vote for Kerry/Romney because they particularly liked Kerry/Romney: they voted for Kerry/Romney because they didn’t like Bush/Obama.

    Maybe the lesson is that “Anybody But…” as a strategy needs to be abandoned in favor of “This Person, Because…”

    Leviticus (1aca67)

  152. That’s called negotiation, JD, a word which has dropped out of your party’s vocabulary.

    So, your idea of bipartisanship is Team R accepting the demands of a bad faithed negotiation?

    I heart your haughty above the fray BS attitude.

    How much do you plan on taking from the taxpayers? If you took 100%, it wouldn’t cover leftist spending.

    JD (318f81)

  153. Also, the Democrats now have supermajorities in both houses of the CA state legislature.

    So pension reform should be no problem.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  154. So pension reform should be no problem.

    Can you even begin to imagine what their idea of pension deform might look like?

    JD (318f81)

  155. “That’s called negotiation, JD, a word which has dropped out of your party’s vocabulary.

    Comment by Perry — 11/7/2012 @ 10:45 am”

    Thanks Perry, I needed a laugh this morning.

    Pres Obama (on compromising with Repubs) “I won”.

    kinlaw (2fb87c)

  156. More cities in Cali will declare bankruptcy, and the state itself is in danger of defaulting. I am actually worried about the possibility of (the unions) rioting over union contracts.

    kinlaw (2fb87c)

  157. Can you even begin to imagine what their idea of pension deform might look like?

    Sadly, yes. It will be “balanced,” meaning that the retirement age will be raised by one or two years, employees will have to contribute a few percentage points more, and the most awful abuses (pension spiking, buying time) will continue to be rolled back. In return, taxpayers will still be on the hook for funding full benefit-defined pensions for employees that retire at 62, and the massive tidal wave of tax increases that this will require won’t be necessary until Jerry Brown is safely reelected.

    JVW (f5695c)

  158. Comment by Leviticus — 11/7/2012 @ 10:53 am

    What are you talking about? Romney ran on his business and managerial background, and proposed specific things like his tax cuts. It was nothing like Kerry who ridiculously tried to run on his Vietnam service.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  159. JD @149,

    partisan = Paul Ryan proposing a budget

    non-partisan = Obama telling Hispanics to “punish your enemies.”

    Got it?

    Steve57 (320590)

  160. “The current ultimatum is Simpson-Bowles, a product of both parties.”

    Perry – Nice try, already debunked above. With respect to Norquist and pledges, I am not in favor of them because circumstances change, which is why it is idiotic for the President to issue ultimatums and then blame Congress for intransigence.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  161. Obama won – Mandate for even more liberal policies.

    Democrats held the Senate – Mandate for even more liberal policies.

    Republicans held the House – Mandate for Republicans to accept even more liberal policies.

    I feel like I could be on the network news.

    egd (d580cc)

  162. Perry – How many Republican votes in the House and Senate did the ARRA get?

    In the House, all Repubs plus 11 Dems voted no. In the Senate, 3 Repubs and all Dems voted aye.

    Twas good for our country that ARRA passed, thanks to the Dems. We needed another stimulus, the AJA, which was rejected by Repubs in the Fall of ’11, by the oft used Senate filibuster, as part of their first priority to make Obama a one term president. This Repub strategy failed, thanks to the American voters!

    Will Repubs continue their slash and burn strategy of party over country? I certainly hope not!

    Perry (564829)

  163. “People didn’t vote for Kerry/Romney because they particularly liked Kerry/Romney: they voted for Kerry/Romney because they didn’t like Bush/Obama.”

    Leviticus – Dude. Are you trying to read my mind? Really?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  164. ==Basically, Democrats are the party of identity politics, pandering to the needs of its constituencies every four years which are often in conflict, rather than focusing on the what is good for the country as a whole. (Comment by daleyrocks)

    I tend to agree with that. But, as vile as identity politics is, it seems to be working for the Democrats, and nothing I’ve seen suggests that the tide will turn against them. Not in what’s left of my lifetime, at least. (Comment by Chuck Bartowski)—-

    I think you’re both totally on target with these troubling observations. I’ll add this to the opinion pile: The products of the once great American public school system (which include many of the current media influencers) have over the past 35-40 years been taught to view identity politics not as “pandering” at all— but rather as evidence of the holy grail of “inclusiveness”. I wish I could see a path to how this mentality ever gets turned around so that the larger common needs and very survival of our country as a whole are deemed important and worthy of sacrifice and fight, but like Chuck I don’t see it happening. All the harrumphing I read here today about the idiocy of the American voter is understandable –but it is really just futile noise. Could the soaring inspirational rhetoric and love of country of a Lincoln or a Reagan even get through in our current environment? I would guess the answer to that question is no, because that has become almost as a foreign language to many.

    elissa (1f30eb)

  165. The real questions is this: Will Obama seek to work with Congressional Republicans and compromise? He could get a lot if he’s willing to give some back. Getting rid of the worst excesses of the ACA would be a start. Particularly cost panel and bureaucratic structure.

    Or will he continue to bash square pegs into round holes and complain of obstructionism?

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  166. “Perry – How many Republican votes in the House and Senate did the ARRA get?

    In the House, all Repubs plus 11 Dems voted no. In the Senate, 3 Repubs and all Dems voted aye.”

    Perry – So not quite the example of the parties working together you suggested. Why do you think that was?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  167. Twas good for our country that ARRA passed,

    Not by any objective measure. Unless you happen to be a Dem client.

    JD (318f81)

  168. Will Repubs continue their slash and burn strategy of party over country? I certainly hope not!

    Perry is not blaming.

    JD (318f81)

  169. We needed another stimulus, the AJA, which was rejected by Repubs in the Fall of ’11, by the oft used Senate filibuster

    How many jobs bills did the House pass, that the Senate refused to even bring up?

    Your lies are old and tiresome.

    JD (318f81)

  170. “Could the soaring inspirational rhetoric and love of country of a Lincoln or a Reagan even get through in our current environment? I would guess the answer to that question is no, because that has become almost as a foreign language to many.”

    elissa – Oh, but this great melting pot of ours demands we recognize the diversity of its people and the multicultural greatness of their heritages no matter how distant in the past they are and diminish the arrogant attitude of American exceptionalism which has angered so many around the world and made this country a beacon of freedom and magnet where people want to live and raise families, because that is just not a good message to send to the world at all, or something.

    Participation ribbons for everyone!!!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  171. Legislating by Excutive Fiat is the very essence of bipartisanship.

    JD (318f81)

  172. So, your idea of bipartisanship is Team R accepting the demands of a bad faithed negotiation?

    I heart your haughty above the fray BS attitude.

    How much do you plan on taking from the taxpayers? If you took 100%, it wouldn’t cover leftist spending.

    Honesty dictates that we attribute too much spending to both sides of the aisle: Bush almost doubled the debt by two wars and medicare D, so far Obama has increased it by 50% more as a result of a great recession. Your point is selective/dishonest for partisan ideological purposes.

    Perry (564829)

  173. I am not in too great a mood this morning but I have to say Perry is making me laugh.

    kinlaw (2fb87c)

  174. Hate America First!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  175. Perry, when you post I’ve got to look around for hip waders and a shovel.

    Steve57 (320590)

  176. “so far Obama has increased it by 50% more as a result of a great recession”

    This statement is so ridiculous I can’t even begin to address it. It has a kryptonite level of stupidity to it which defies reason and logic.

    kinlaw (2fb87c)

  177. Legislating by Excutive Fiat is the very essence of bipartisanship.

    What Executive Fiat is that?

    When the House votes as a block, no exceptions, and the Senate uses the filibuster, all during a crisis, what is left to do? Do we now need to litigate facts?

    Perry (564829)

  178. “Bush almost doubled the debt by two wars and medicare D”

    Perry – How can you trace the debt to those expenditures? Why wasn’t the increase in debt due to things like the vast increase in education spending spearheaded by Ted Kennedy, the only Senator to record a confirmed kill in the War on Women?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  179. Perry, when you comment about being selective/dishonest I think of Clinton wagging his finger about how you don’t want a President who will knowingly and repeatedly lie to you.

    “I did not have sex with that woman.”

    Steve57 (320590)

  180. I didn’t say anything about Bush, Perry. Strawmen are made to be savaged. How much do you plan on taking? Obama’s “best” deficit is more than double Bush’s worst. I say take 95% of all earnings over $500,000. How much will that net you for your big government nonsense? The idea that you care about deficits and debt is laughable, by the way. Your side’s idea of draconian cuts is reducing the rate of growth in the future. Te only actual cuts your side ever supports are real and current cuts to defense. Your sophistry and concern trolling is duly noted. Thanks. We appreciate your concern.

    JD (318f81)

  181. When the House votes as a block, no exceptions, and the Senate uses the filibuster, all during a crisis, what is left to do? Do we now need to litigate facts?

    Comment by Perry — 11/7/2012 @ 11:23 am

    Yup. That’s what’s the Constitution says. Rule by decree if there’s an impasse. It’s right there in article, uhh, article…

    Help me out, Perry; what article of the Constitution is that again?

    Steve57 (320590)

  182. This statement is so ridiculous I can’t even begin to address it. It has a kryptonite level of stupidity to it which defies reason and logic.

    No, it is a fact based on the debt numbers comparing Bush’s two terms to Obama’s first. Do I need to bring out the numbers? Bush: $5.5T to $10.5T; Obama: $10.5T to $16T.

    Perry (564829)

  183. What Executive Fiat is that?

    Are you playing dumb? Selective enforcement of laws? DREAM Act? CO2 regulation by EPA? FCC Net Neutrality? Forcing religious institutions to provide Sandra Fluke rubbers? The impending ObamaCare and EPA regulations that they held until after the election? You are either playing dumb, or are the sophist your have shown yourself to be. Or both.

    JD (318f81)

  184. Yup. That’s what’s the Constitution says. Rule by decree if there’s an impasse. It’s right there in article, uhh, article…

    Help me out, Perry; what article of the Constitution is that again?

    Trouble is, there has been no ruling be decree, so why do your say so?

    Perry (564829)

  185. Perry, do yourself a favor. Don’t mention numbers you can’t count on your fingers and your toes.

    Steve57 (320590)

  186. Obama raised the national debt more in 4 years than Bush did in 8. And it is only gonna get worse.

    JD (318f81)

  187. “so far Obama has increased it by 50% more as a result of a great recession”

    Perry – So far Obama has increased more than Bush in less than four years than Bush did in eight years by increasing his spending at a higher rate than his revenues could sustain, breaking his promise to cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term. But that’s not important.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  188. Trouble is, there has been no ruling be decree, so why do your say so?

    Lie. You are not very good at this.

    JD (318f81)

  189. Obama Uses Executive Orders to Bypass Congress

    Perry, the low hanging fruit of fruitydom.

    Steve57 (320590)

  190. 92. “Place the blame where it belongs, on American voters”

    Worked for GM.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  191. “Worked for GM.”

    gary – That’s why Cash for Clunkers was such a mega blowout gonzo success!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  192. Okay, let’s put this “Romney did worse than McCain” crap to rest once and for all:
    – Romney won 2 more states and 33 more electoral votes
    – Turnout was down 9.1%, Romney got 4.1% fewer votes than McCain, Obama got 8.7% fewer votes than he did in ’08
    – McCain got 45.7% of the popular vote, Romney got 48.8%
    – Compared to McCain, Romney got a higher percentage of the vote in 44 states + D.C. Of the the 6 states where he did not get a higher number, he tied McCain’s percentage in 2 of the 6 and he won 3 of them ; the other 3 were RI, NY & NJ, none of which were in play.
    It makes one wonder what would have happened if Romney had been ready for prime time four years ago.

    Icy (4531d0)

  193. Are you playing dumb? Selective enforcement of laws? DREAM Act? CO2 regulation by EPA? FCC Net Neutrality? Forcing religious institutions to provide Sandra Fluke rubbers? The impending ObamaCare and EPA regulations that they held until after the election? You are either playing dumb, or are the sophist your have shown yourself to be. Or both.

    I call this governing when we have a dysfunctional Senate and House, with an approval rating hovering around the single digits. Do you think this was a factor in the election results? I say yes. Apparently a majority of Americans approved.

    Perry (564829)

  194. 188. …That’s why Cash for Clunkers was such a mega blowout gonzo success!!!!!!

    Comment by daleyrocks — 11/7/2012 @ 11:35 am

    Mebbe it was. I believe that was the sales pitch the Obama campaign put out to potential donors. And it seems to have worked.

    Steve57 (320590)

  195. Perry, the low hanging fruit of fruitydom.

    When all else fails, out come the pejoratives. Typical!

    Perry (564829)

  196. Perry, that’d be when all else works out come the pejoratives.

    Except I meant it as a compliment. Of all the fruits in fruitydom, your the low hanging ones, bro!

    Steve57 (320590)

  197. Trouble is, there has been no ruling be decree, so why do your say so?

    Obama has taken to issuing “regulations” when a law to the same effect was voted down. These regulations are usually outside the power of the regulator, but we have to go prove it.

    He also is claiming the right to do recess appointments when there is no official recess. He says that HE is the arbiter of what is a Congressional Recess, not Congress. Not so, but again, go prove it.

    Then there is the ACA Medicare Cost Panel which has been granted the power to declare laws things-with-the-force-of-law. This panel is also immune to future Congressional repeal, which isn’t ruling by decree, but good gawds.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  198. Okay, let’s put this “Romney did worse than McCain” crap to rest once and for all:
    – Romney won 2 more states and 33 more electoral votes
    – Turnout was down 9.1%, Romney got 4.1% fewer votes than McCain, Obama got 8.7% fewer votes than he did in ’08
    – McCain got 45.7% of the popular vote, Romney got 48.8%
    – Compared to McCain, Romney got a higher percentage of the vote in 44 states + D.C. Of the the 6 states where he did not get a higher number, he tied McCain’s percentage in 2 of the 6 and he won 3 of them ; the other 3 were RI, NY & NJ, none of which were in play.
    It makes one wonder what would have happened if Romney had been ready for prime time four years ago.

    I trust your numbers, but you forgot one important item: context. Romney and the Repubs blew an election which they should have won, and you know it!

    Perry (564829)

  199. You’re. As in you are.

    Steve57 (320590)

  200. Is Perry’s “point” that the first step towards fiscal recovery is for the GOP to join with the Dems in a bipartisan effort to blame Booooooosh for everything?

    Icy (4531d0)

  201. Perry @195, Americans blew an election they should have won. Not Romney.

    Now they’ll have to live with the consequences of their choice.

    Steve57 (320590)

  202. I wonder if the turnout decrease was among Evangelicals who couldn’t vote for a Mormon. I’d sure like to see turnout raw numbers (not percentages) for 2012 vs 2008. Is there some other pattern? It is hard to believe that there was generally less interest this time.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  203. I call this governing when we have a dysfunctional Senate and House, with an approval rating hovering around the single digits. Do you think this was a factor in the election results? I say yes. Apparently a majority of Americans approved.

    Where in the Constitution does this power come from? I searched Executive order if Congress is dysfunctional and could not locate that clause.

    Was it a factor in the election? Were it a factor, one might assume that the Congress would not have been sent back in a nearly identical composition as it was before.

    JD (318f81)

  204. Obama has taken to issuing “regulations” when a law to the same effect was voted down. These regulations are usually outside the power of the regulator, but we have to go prove it.

    He also is claiming the right to do recess appointments when there is no official recess. He says that HE is the arbiter of what is a Congressional Recess, not Congress. Not so, but again, go prove it.

    Then there is the ACA Medicare Cost Panel which has been granted the power to declare laws things-with-the-force-of-law. This panel is also immune to future Congressional repeal, which isn’t ruling by decree, but good gawds.

    Again, in the absence of a functional legislative branch, what is an administration to do. I don’t like it either, but your side deserves some blame for prioritizing holding Obama to one term while holding governance hostage during an economic crisis. To me, this borders on treason.

    Perry (564829)

  205. Bush almost doubled the debt by two wars and medicare D, so far Obama has increased it by 50% more as a result of a great recession.

    A familiar talking point from the left which completely ignores that the Democrats’ alternative to the Bush Medicare Prescription Drug plan was even more expensive and would have blown a bigger hole in the deficit.

    JVW (f5695c)

  206. I trust your numbers, but you forgot one important item: context. Romney and the Repubs blew an election which they should have won, and you know it!
    Comment by Perry — 11/7/2012 @ 11:42 am

    – I’m not denying it. Just clearing up the false impression that Romney performed worse than McCain.

    Icy (4531d0)

  207. Perry is not casting blame, except when he is.

    JD (318f81)

  208. JVW – they conveniently ignore that. Teh Narrative trumps actual facts.

    JD (318f81)

  209. Romney did everything he should have — including letting Benghazi work its own damage — but he failed to predict the October surprise (Sandy). Once that happened, Obama played everything well, Christie played everything poorly (or at least provincially), and Romney was left on the outside looking in.

    Had the election been 10 days earlier (or 10 days later) and Romney would have won handily. But right then, Obama was riding a wave. So to speak.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  210. 197. Is Perry’s “point” that the first step towards fiscal recovery is for the GOP to join with the Dems in a bipartisan effort to blame Booooooosh for everything?

    Comment by Icy — 11/7/2012 @ 11:43 am

    And in foreign policy matters, clearly the only one true conservative position is to trust the Muslim Brotherhood to pick the winners amongst the Syrian Salafists.

    If you don’t believe me, ask Mahalia.

    Steve57 (320590)

  211. Just as a comment on the ‘tax increases and spending cuts’ deal above.

    The objective is to increase tax revenue to help with our deficit. We are on the wrong side of the Laffer curve and raising taxes will decrease tax revenue. All that raising taxes will do at this point is increase evasion maneuvers and take money out of the economy resulting in less tax revenue.

    We need a combination of heavy spending cuts, reduction of waste, and reduction-in-force in the federal government (RIF). That plus lower taxes will bring our spending in line with our intake.

    A miracle would help too. Clinton got one – the internet boom. Obama might get whiffleball fusion if his luck holds out.

    luagha (5cbe06)

  212. [Y]our side deserves some blame for prioritizing holding Obama to one term while holding governance hostage during an economic crisis. To me, this borders on treason.

    Your side, Perry, had the largest majorities in Congress with a President of the same party in over 30 years. Way larger than Bush ever had. For one magic moment you actually had a filibuster-free Senate majority. Yet everything that the President was unable to do — from a larger stimulus bill to card-check for union employees to a public option in ObamaCare — was because Obama’s fellow Democrats would not go along with his plans. You guys sell this great bogeyman story of a powerful GOP opposition, but to the degree that Obama was a failure in his first two years, he failed because Democrats could not govern.

    JVW (f5695c)

  213. You guys sell this great bogeyman story of a powerful GOP opposition, but to the degree that Obama was a failure in his first two years, he failed because Democrats could not govern.

    In a practical sense, 2010 was beneficial to Teh One.

    JD (318f81)

  214. Where in the Constitution does this power come from? I searched Executive order if Congress is dysfunctional and could not locate that clause.

    Was it a factor in the election? Were it a factor, one might assume that the Congress would not have been sent back in a nearly identical composition as it was before.

    I’d say that this behavior by the Repubs during a crisis may not have been envisioned by our Founders. And please, your “nearly identical composition” argument is flawed. You know very well that only about 10%(?) of the House is susceptible to overthrowing an incumbent due to partisan determination of the representative district boundaries. And regarding the composition of the Senate, surprisingly the Dems managed to gain a seat from amongst a preponderance of red states.

    Perry (564829)

  215. I wonder if the turnout decrease was among Evangelicals who couldn’t vote for a Mormon. I’d sure like to see turnout raw numbers (not percentages) for 2012 vs 2008. Is there some other pattern? It is hard to believe that there was generally less interest this time.
    Comment by Kevin M — 11/7/2012 @ 11:46 am

    – Have to go to work, but quickly, Mississippi is the one Bible-belt state where Romney underperformed McCain (61,000 fewer votes). Virginia would be the first state to analyze for evangelical turnout.

    Icy (4531d0)

  216. What do you suppose Massachusetts liberals are going to think when ObamaCare slashes reimbursements to New England’s hospitals affiliated with local medical schools? I wonder if Mass General and Brigham & Women’s will continue to rank among the top hospitals in the country? Will BU, Harvard, and Tufts step in and take up the slack from their endowments?

    I’m just thinking about how happy they must be now that Elizabeth Warren is in Teddy K’s old seat.

    JVW (f5695c)

  217. Your side, Perry, had the largest majorities in Congress with a President of the same party in over 30 years. Way larger than Bush ever had. For one magic moment you actually had a filibuster-free Senate majority. Yet everything that the President was unable to do — from a larger stimulus bill to card-check for union employees to a public option in ObamaCare — was because Obama’s fellow Democrats would not go along with his plans. You guys sell this great bogeyman story of a powerful GOP opposition, but to the degree that Obama was a failure in his first two years, he failed because Democrats could not govern.

    This is essentially true, but there were several Dems who decided to put individual power over party discipline, not to mention the election of Scott Brown. I’ll give your party credit for behaving as if they were in a parliamentary system, exerting impressive party discipline. The problem was declining to govern, which I find highly irresponsible.

    Perry (564829)

  218. In a practical sense, 2010 was beneficial to Teh One.

    In a way, yes, as the 2012 result is also beneficial to Dear Leader in a way, but I have a hard time seeing him all of a sudden becoming a Clintonian triangulator. He is too much of a leftist true believer, not the self-serving liberal cynic that Clinton was. He’ll wait for the House GOP to propose their budget, then he with savage it relentlessly, conspire with Harry Reid to keep the Senate from releasing a counter-proposal, then assume that he can magically go in and hammer out a compromise after demonizing House Republicans. Funny thing is, the Perrys of the world will see this as statesmanship.

    JVW (f5695c)

  219. What do you suppose Massachusetts liberals are going to think when ObamaCare slashes reimbursements to New England’s hospitals affiliated with local medical schools? I wonder if Mass General and Brigham & Women’s will continue to rank among the top hospitals in the country? Will BU, Harvard, and Tufts step in and take up the slack from their endowments?

    I’m just thinking about how happy they must be now that Elizabeth Warren is in Teddy K’s old seat.

    As the ACA is implemented, as complex as this bill is, we will be discovering facets that need modification, which would possibly have been avoided if we had gone single-payer. That said, the ACA, appropriately modified when needed, is much better than nothing, in my view. In the longer term, it will cover tens of millions more, and should reduce the slope of the cost curve.

    Thanks for the discussion. I’m gone.

    Perry (564829)

  220. The problem was declining to govern, which I find highly irresponsible.

    So because Democrats are dysfunctional, Republicans — who Dems call heartless warmongers who hate women, minorities, the poor, etc. — are supposed to ride in on their white horses (whoops! how racially insensitive of me!) and bail them out? If Democrats are incapable of governing then Republicans have every right to demand equal share in crafting bills, so ObamaCare, the stimulus, et al, would have looked way different.

    JVW (f5695c)

  221. I’d say that this behavior by the Repubs during a crisis may not have been envisioned by our Founders.

    This might be the least serious of the unserious arguments you have advanced. No small feat.

    JD (ac62a1)

  222. Or, Perry, is the real story that Democrats can never reconcile their lavish campaign promises with the realities of our financial situation, and they always want the GOP to provide cover for why Dems continually over-promise and under-deliver to their various constituencies?

    JVW (f5695c)

  223. In the longer term, it will cover tens of millions more, and should reduce the slope of the cost curve.

    LOL

    JD (ac62a1)

  224. Your side, Perry, had the largest majorities in Congress with a President of the same party in over 30 years. Way larger than Bush ever had. For one magic moment you actually had a filibuster-free Senate majority. Yet everything that the President was unable to do — from a larger stimulus bill to card-check for union employees to a public option in ObamaCare — was because Obama’s fellow Democrats would not go along with his plans. You guys sell this great bogeyman story of a powerful GOP opposition, but to the degree that Obama was a failure in his first two years, he failed because Democrats could not govern.

    I have to comment on this one. I think we can agree that the nature of the opposition which Bush-43 had, especially following the 9/11 crisis, was far more cooperative than the opposition that Obama had from day one and McConnell’s priority dictum for Republicans.

    Perry (564829)

  225. I think we can agree that the nature of the opposition which Bush-43 had, especially following the 9/11 crisis, was far more cooperative than the opposition that Obama had from day one and McConnell’s priority dictum for Republicans.

    Has it ever crossed your mind that it is because Bush pursued more popular policies than Obama did? Granted, so many of the slimiest Democrats ultimately lamented having voted for his tax cuts and the War in Iraq (the worst of them — *cough* Joe Biden *cough* — try to claim that they didn’t vote the way that history records they did), but at the time they saw that these were popular measures and they jumped on the bandwagon to support them. What major initiative did Obama ever propose that had, for example, 60% approval by the time it finally passed?

    JVW (f5695c)

  226. but there were several Dems who decided to put individual power over party discipline

    Liberals are such nonconformists. Just like all other liberals.

    “I’m not like everyone else,” says “me too.”

    Steve57 (320590)

  227. ==Had the election been 10 days earlier (or 10 days later) and Romney would have won handily. But right then, Obama was riding a wave. So to speak==

    Kevin M, that sounds so good, but do you really think there is evidence to support that theory? I hate polls and polling like the devil, but isn’t it now painfully obvious that the polls really were rather consistent, (except for a few notable spikes like the first debate) and that especially with respect to EC projections they did not change all that much over a period of months? I’d be interested in proof you’ve seen that either Sandy storm, or Sandy politics in he media, affected votes on either side of this 2012 presidential race.

    elissa (1f30eb)

  228. Living in which state?
    Comment by Steve57 — 11/7/2012 @ 10:09 am

    Living in any state, or country, as Prop 39 was an increase on taxes on multi-state businesses.
    http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Proposition_39,_Income_Tax_Increase_for_Multistate_Businesses_(2012)

    Did you know that Birchwood-Casey (of MN), a maker of firearms cleaners and lubricants, just paid a half-milliom Dollar fine to the CA Air Resources Board for exceeding the amount of VOC’s in some of their products sold in CA.
    I’m sure that B-C will increase only the price of CA-bound product to pay for that.
    Most likely they’ll have to reformulate, and increase the price, for a product that will not perform to its previous standard.

    Ah, the wonders of the Regulatory State.

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  229. This was 1856. Any chance we had of remaining united is now gone. Only horrors await.

    There will be unimaginable cultural wars ahead. Our standard of health care will drop precipitously as Obamacare kills innovation and individual medicine. A Weimar-level inflation is on the way.

    A Caliphate will rise and will either succeed, or will cost us in inconceivable ways.

    The piper will be paid.

    Ed from SFV (5e8d2b)

  230. I think we can agree that the nature of the opposition which Bush-43 had, especially following the 9/11 crisis,

    I don’t think we can agree.

    JD (ac62a1)

  231. And bring back all the tax deductions from that era too, right?

    Why is it that my parents in the ’50′s could manage to buy and maintain a house (and family of five) that cost 3X their income, yet today’s couples (what few that there are) can’t?

    Now, some would say where can you buy a house that only costs 3X your income in today’s America.
    Well, this was L.A. in the Fifties – I’m sure that there are places, though they’re not in L.A. anymore due to land-use restrictions/regulations/etc. – most of which came into being during the previous iteration of Gov. Moonbeam, or from regulatory bodies he created.

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  232. Comment by Perry — 11/7/2012 @ 10:30 am

    I think if you check, ARRA (the Stimulus) did not receive any GOP votes in the House, and only three (Spector/Snowe/Collins) in the Senate.
    That’s not what many would consider bi-partisan.

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  233. Would now be a good time to review the predictions we made on this blog 4 years ago? I know most of mine did not come true, yet.

    Amphipolis (d3e04f)

  234. I don’t think we can agree.

    JD, some people have forgotten “Hail to the Thief!” “Not my President!” and “Selected, not elected!” Oh to remember the good old days when the left worked in the spirit of cooperation with Bush. I mean, wasn’t it something like September 13, 2001 when International ANSWER first convened in London to coordinate opposition to the coming invasion of Afghanistan? Granted, the Democrat Party kept quiet while the ruins of the Twin Towers still smouldered, but it was pretty clear that they were going to turn on the Bush Administration’s handling of the War on Terror the very first chance that they got.

    JVW (f5695c)

  235. I’m no slouch on American political history and there are several regular commenters on this site who can and do run rings around me. Perry’s assurances that deeply dysfunctional Federal government caused by divided legislatures has rarely happened before in America during such dangerous and critical times is laughable on its face. His ideas that a dysfunctional government automatically mandates/forces chief executives unchecked extra-constitutional powers is frightening. Yeah, poor widdle Obama needs to invoke dictatorial powers, create czar led bureaucracies, and issue executive orders more than any other president in history!!!!

    elissa (1f30eb)

  236. Now, some would say where can you buy a house that only costs 3X your income in today’s America. Well, this was L.A. in the Fifties – I’m sure that there are places, though they’re not in L.A. anymore due to land-use restrictions/regulations/etc. – most of which came into being during the previous iteration of Gov. Moonbeam, or from regulatory bodies he created.

    Hey, not fair AD! If you have a nice job working for some California State Senator at $190,000 per year (note: those figures are from 2009) you can get yourself a really nice home. Heck, even if you are in the $75,000 range and have a spouse in the $90,000 range you can do pretty nicely for yourself. Even in Los Angeles.

    JVW (f5695c)

  237. carlitos-happyfeet, Moe’s Original BBQ, Ocean Beach. A Legend in My own Mind.

    mg (31009b)

  238. Hugh Hewitt in his column on the election “With A Deep Sadness And No Little Fear”, notes that the GOP needs to start today planning/recruiting/etc on who will be running for Senate in 2014.
    First and foremost is a replacement for John Cornyn at NRSC.
    I nominate Marco Rubio!
    Plus, I think we can expect leadership challenges against both McConnell and for the open seat of Whip.
    I would be surprised if Rand Paul doesn’t challenge for one of those two positions, and it would not surprise me if Jim DeMint staked-out a position for one also.

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  239. Comment by JVW — 11/7/2012 @ 12:41 pm

    Have you checked the prices of SFV/West Side homes lately?
    But, you’re right. You could find an 800ft bungalow.

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  240. Romney got fewer votes than McCain 4 years ago. I don’t understand that.

    Comment by Amphipolis — 11/7/2012 @ 7:25 am

    I’ve heard it explained that he was too tough on illegal immigration. Now we can await the flood although Mexico might be in better financial shape in a couple of years.

    Mike K (326cba)

  241. AD–familiarity and consistancy of purpose can be very reassuring to see on a day like today. If nothing else, your “handle” values remain true, viable, and fully operational for another four years. :)

    elissa (1f30eb)

  242. In the South Bay you can get an OK townhome, maybe 1700 sq ft, about three miles from the beach (Torrance or North Redondo) for $600,000, going on the idea of the $190k state senate aide salary. Of course, I don’t know what you would do for a residence in Sacramento, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

    You’re probably right that it would be hard to find something for $450k. You might end up pretty far east unless you are willing to accept a 1200 sq. ft. condo.

    JVW (f5695c)

  243. War on women- Not one f-ing republican stood up and mentioned the fact that bill clinton ,the impeached one was accused of rape, cigaring an intern in the white house, and other assorted misgivings to do with women.
    Let alone how Mrs. Palin was treated 4 years ago ,f-ing disgusting that the right would not use this comparison.

    sickofrinos (31009b)

  244. Comment by Amphipolis — 11/7/2012 @ 7:25 am

    Comment by Mike K — 11/7/2012 @ 12:51 pm

    I wonder too if the general nastiness of the campaign also depressed turn-out. That’s what the good-government types would have us believe. Frankly, I have always thought that anyone who doesn’t feel a civic sense of duty to vote should probably not be encouraged to vote anyway, but I have Menckenish thoughts about my fellow citizens.

    Another possibility is that since the candidates only really seemed to care about Ohio, Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, Colorado, Iowa, and Nevada (and later Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania), perhaps residents of other states weren’t motivated to turn out. It would be interesting to compare 2008 and 2012 turn-out in the above-mentioned states.

    JVW (f5695c)

  245. Thank You, elissa.

    BTW, I would like to address a few words to the “gentlemen” from MO and IN, Akin and Mourdock, and any other pol out there who thinks that they are the definition of the smartest guy/gal in the room:

    What the fuck where you thinking (or, are you actually capable of such)?

    Do yourselves and the rest of us a favor and go open an Orange Julius stand somewhere and never run for anything more important than city council every again (and even that might be a stretch).

    There is a reason why our Creator gave us two ears, and only one mouth: We need to listen harder.
    Plus – a little car lingo here – be sure that your brain is in gear before engaging your mouth!
    How did you ever get to the positions you were at prior to this election?
    Reflect on that, and re-evaluate.

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  246. Comment by JVW — 11/7/2012 @ 12:57 pm

    Prior to the Coastal Conservation Act, I worked in Redondo at one of the bay-side restaurants, and considered getting something in town. There were some lovely places available in the mid-50′s (or less) – the CCA changed all that, all in the name of preserving the coastline for the “average” citizen.

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  247. What it means? Three words- Brace for Impact…

    LWGII (c27c59)

  248. I live in Redondo and it is wonderful, but you are absolutely correct that the Beach Cities have been ruined by folks who come in and buy good properties, then use the legal system and environmentalist arguments to ensure that nobody else ever gets to develop there again, thereby inflating home values and keeping out “undesirables.”

    JVW (f5695c)

  249. For one thing, you have to lay the groundwork early, way before election time.

    Members of my family, educated and professional, M.D.s in CA for years, did not know that public employees have dues deducted from their paychecks which are then given to campaigns.

    Did not know.

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  250. The obvious culprits taking this loss are the a**holes that said this was the one guy who could win with independents.

    The dopes that rejected every other name to surface offering their services.

    All to make the GOP competitive in Blue states.

    Those idjits.

    Given who he was, risk averse, author of Obamaneycare, ‘corporate raider’, he did surprisingly well, and earned my respect.

    His ardent supporters, not so much.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  251. Elissa – you analysis of that is spot on.

    JD (ac62a1)

  252. A gloomy prediction for coming events:

    In attempting to spirit out those who trade illegally in guns, the ATF/FBI/DEA/DHS (any and/or all) will create/stumble upon a Ruby Ridge/Waco.
    And, like those previous examples, they will meet some initial resistance; but others in the immediate (and not so immediate) community will “run to the sound of the guns”, creating a huge PR fiasco for the government as it will have a “Shay’s Rebellion” on its hands.

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  253. When the crushing taxes and regulations kick in, and people start complaining, the first thing I’m going to do is ask them if they voted for Obama–if they did, then they flat out deserve the misery that’s coming–it’s too bad they dragged the rest of us along.

    rochf (f3fbb0)

  254. Opening of this mornings OpEd by Holman W. Jenkins in the WSJ:

    Punditry did not cover itself in glory in the closing days of election 2012. For the seventh race in a row, Republicans nominated somebody conspicuously not associated with the right wing of the party, infuriating liberals who saw their theory of the election and the count confounded. They went unsubtly about trying to make the world fit their worldview…”

    “seventh race in a row”: 1988, ’92, ’96, 2000, ’04, ’08, ’12!
    Yes, Ronald Wilson Reagan was the last conservative nominated by the GOP for President of the United States of America.

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  255. BTW, the Market closed DOWN $312.95 today.
    So much for “Forward”.

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  256. “Mebbe it was. I believe that was the sales pitch the Obama campaign put out to potential donors. And it seems to have worked.”

    Steve57 – Absolutely. Cash for Clunkers resurrected the U.S. owned auto industry by increasing sales of foreign car makers, pulling future years’ sales ahead and raising the price of used cars. It was quite probably a turning point of the election.

    High fives all around!

    Now let’s talk about the Volt.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  257. “So much for “Forward”.”

    AD – How about Shared Misery For All

    Shrinking Or Static Pie, It’s What’s For Dinner

    Racists

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  258. Short-term Solutions to Long-Term Problems

    Obama 2012

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  259. one last thing before I retire from the field….

    The War on Women!
    Ladies, if you can’t read and understand the Constitution of the United States, and the Declaration of Independence, you have no business getting involved with politics, as your lack of grounding in the fundamentals of this country are a big negative, and will lead to the further deterioration of all that made this country the “Shining City on the Hill” for millions of peoples throughout the world.

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  260. Democrats – Kicking The Can Down The Road Since Before You Were Born

    Obama 2012

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  261. 245. For one thing, you have to lay the groundwork early, way before election time…

    Comment by Patricia — 11/7/2012 @ 1:23 pm

    Hopefully the House GOP will do that.

    For four solid years. They’ll say, “You f***tards campaigned on Big Bird. You f***tards campaigned on vaginas. You f***tards arrested a filmaker instead of stopping an assault on a consulate.”

    Hopefully when Obama comes begging for a second GM bailout (which will happen) they’ll send him packing with a hearty “but you already saved the auto industry, Chicago Jesus.”

    We, on the other hand, needed an adult partner to work on the economy and national security. And we still don’t have one.

    Steve57 (320590)

  262. Like many of you, I’m deeply disappointed in the results from last night. I’ve been going over in my mind what the “proper” response to such a loss is, or should be.

    My first reaction is that it’s abundantly clear now (although it should have been clear YEARS ago) that Dems/liberals do not have to play by the same rules as the GOP/conservatives. Like it or not, that’s the reality. There’s a lot being said about Romney being too nice, and not calling out the Dems/Obama, and largely the media, on these manufactured gaffes/”War on X”, and I think they’re right. As the saying goes, “nice guys finish last”; it’s time to stop trying to get them to play by our rules, and instead tailor our strategy to play by theirs. For example, when the ad about the woman dying from cancer came out, the Romney campaign should’ve struck back with an ad tying Obama to the death of Brian Terry and the hundreds of Mexican civilians killed when Eric Holder’s DOJ/ATF allowed those guns to ‘walk’ across the border.

    My second thought actually concerns the coming/continuing gridlock in DC, since the GOP still holds the House. On the one hand, I am cautiously optimistic that the House GOP will hold firm when it comes to the next few months and the impending expiration of the Bush tax rates, the payroll tax, and the debt ceiling. However, time has shown me that even the most vocal conservative on our side has absolutely no balls when it comes to making the tough decisions. Thus, I would not be surprised if and when the House votes to “compromise” with the Dems, and that “compromise” equals the GOP giving a mile to gain an inch.

    On the other hand, I’ve started wondering (and I’m certainly not the first) if the only way to start winning the argument again is to actually show the voters what it is they’ve gotten themselves into. You want “free” health care? You got it. You think global warming causes hurricanes? Let’s tax the hell out of gasoline use/consumption. You think the rich aren’t paying their “fair share”? Take the rates back to 1950s levels (70%, perhaps?). You think we should have “open” borders? Come on in, we’d love to have ya. You want lifetime benefits for all government workers? By all means, it’s yours.
    And then, when doctors and businesses start laying off employees or closing their doors; when full-time work becomes part-time work; when gas is so expensive that prices skyrocket and people can no longer afford to drive; when investors stop investing and take their money off-shore; when the government can no longer afford to pay for those benefits to government workers; when unemployment hits 15% and underemployment hits 20%….then maybe the voters will understand that they got the government that they deserve. And when they turn to those of us who have been warning about these things from the start, and they ask us for help, we can lean in and whisper, No. This last part is probably way too dramatic, and perhaps it’s just sour grapes, but I couldn’t keep it in any longer.

    Tyler Hood (ab1303)

  263. “The obvious culprits taking this loss are the a**holes that said this was the one guy who could win with independents.”

    gary – How did he do with independents?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  264. daleyrocks, you’re reading too much into my comment.

    Obama/Biden asked for cash. Now we’ve got clunkers.

    That is all.

    Steve57 (320590)

  265. And then, when doctors and businesses start laying off employees or closing their doors; when full-time work becomes part-time work; when gas is so expensive that prices skyrocket and people can no longer afford to drive; when investors stop investing and take their money off-shore; when the government can no longer afford to pay for those benefits to government workers; when unemployment hits 15% and underemployment hits 20%….then maybe the voters will understand that they got the government that they deserve

    It would be nice, but that won’t happen. All you’ll get is Democrats calling for even more government tinkering, even more taxes, and even more regulation. And a large chunk of people will believe that’s the solution because they don’t want to think of what a truly free life would entail.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  266. Why doesn’t Patterico offer a congratulatory message to the President? All in the spirit bipartisanship.

    Emperor (5dd769)

  267. Yes, Ronald Wilson Reagan was the last conservative nominated by the GOP for President of the United States of America.

    I admire and revere Ronald Reagan as much as the next right-winger, but for the love of God let’s quit this self-defeating exercise of comparing all of our Presidential nominees to him and thus find them lacking. The Democrats did that for years with FDR (and, to a lesser extent, JFK) and all it did was make their party more bitterly leftist, and it cost them winnable elections in 1968 and 1988. Face it, there probably isn’t going to be another Reagan to come along (and let’s stipulate that Rubio has potential, but he is in need of a whole lot more seasoning before he gets to the Reagan pantheon), so we are going to have to make due with what we get.

    The lesson learned from the last four two-term Presidents (Reagan, Clinton, Bush, and the new guy) is that Americans like a charismatic figure who is mostly sunny and optimistic, at least publicly. Romney ran as that guy and did so very competently, I think, but in the end he couldn’t overcome the topless-starlet-at-Cannes effect that Obama has on the voters. Obama ran a nasty and petty campaign, but he knows when to turn on the “Aw shucks, isn’t America the best country ever” charm even when he is waging a scorched earth policy, so to his fans and the media (but I repeat myself) he ever remains the Bright New Hope from 2008. Our nominee in 2016 is going to have to be principled, courageous, articulate, and ridiculously witty in order to get even the semblance of a fair shake.

    JVW (f5695c)

  268. The end game for your plan for “revenge” sort of escaped me, Tyler. Is there a way to protect us good guys while the nation crumbles around only the other guy voters to prove what idiots they were? Cuz it seem to me that the picture you paint would be rather broadly devastating to the republic and difficult to paint over and start anew once all the free enterprise, medical professionals/innovation, societal infrastructure and personal savings are gone, the constitution trampled, and our enemies both foreign and domestic have realized they can have their way with our land and resources. What part of your plan to restore America’s greatness am I missing here?

    elissa (1f30eb)

  269. Thanks for the discussion. I’m gone.
    Comment by Perry — 11/7/2012 @ 12:06 pm

    – You were “gone” long before this discussion began.

    Perhaps you were never here.

    Icy (05efaf)

  270. elissa – I’m building a bunker. I’ve got several different sets of plans. I can share if you want.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  271. Worst day of the year on Wall Street. Thank you, American voters!

    Icy (05efaf)

  272. I have 2 words for the White House: Benghazi.

    Birdbath (716828)

  273. Worst day of the year on Wall Street. Thank you, American voters!

    Even more impressively, it appears to have dragged down overseas markets as well. Of course, the spin from the Obama-media is that all of this — even Wall Street’s slide — is really mostly because of the problems in Europe. No, really, we mean it.

    JVW (f5695c)

  274. They can’t duck the murder of an ambassador.

    Birdbath (716828)

  275. it’s just really hard to feel good about this

    happyfeet (4ad8e2)

  276. You want it, you got it:

    Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.
    -H.L. Mencken

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  277. Right, daleyrocks, as I say, “Short term gain, long term loss.”

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  278. It takes a bunker to raise a family. 2012

    mg (31009b)

  279. Ann Coulter says exit polls show that evangelicals DID come out to vote.

    Icy (05efaf)

  280. Clinton’s second term was a massacre (impeachment). Bush’s second term was a bloodbath (Scooter Libby). Obama’s second term might have entertainment value at least.

    Birdbath (716828)

  281. Cheer up, happyfeet. It’s hard to see you down like this.

    Birdbath (716828)

  282. evangelicals tend to have gobs of kids, and those kids be needing jobs jobs jobs ain’t no way around it

    happyfeet (4ad8e2)

  283. Comment by Leviticus — 11/7/2012 @ 10:53 am

    Understood

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  284. BTW, I think Jenkins’ point was that the GOP base has bent over backwards trying to appease the “moderates” within the party/establishment who keep harping that the party needs to be “more inclusive” (we hear that today, even on the pages of the WSJ, and links found at Insty), yet these “moderates” that they approve of just create more problems than they solve (and that’s if they happen to get elected like Bush pere & fils).

    Remember, it was Bush-41 that gave us the American’s with Disabilities Act which became nothing more than a full-employment act for lawyers, and the Clean Water Act which allows the EPA to declare a mud-puddle in your side yard “navigable waters of the U.S.”; and his son spent like a drunken sailor on leave even as he had an acceptable response to AQ, but forgot to convince the country that Islamic Terrorism is something we’ve needed to deal with since the taking of the Tehran Embassy in Nov-79!

    Too much compassion from both, and not enough conservatism!

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  285. Perry is an example of the Biden-esque habit of Democrats to rewrite history wholesale to whitewash their own actions.

    SPQR (f948a8)

  286. Old lard ass from jersey could have been a hero of the gop if he would have played it completely the opposite. By pointing out how lackluster fema was he could have tied sandy around obama and the democrat congressmen from jersey. And then had a chance at 2016. Now, he has become – benedict christie.

    mg (31009b)

  287. Is ok Mr birdbath I’m a go to disneywhirl tomorrow!

    happyfeet (4ad8e2)

  288. …restore America’s greatness…

    elissa @263, we don’t need to restore it. We just need to live up to it.

    Steve57 (320590)

  289. Steve57–C’mon man, did you read Tyler Hood’s comment to which I was referring? What would there be left to “live up to” once things had been allowed to devolve as far as he posited in order to prove a point?

    elissa (1f30eb)

  290. 281, “By pointing out how lackluster fema was he could have tied sandy around obama and the democrat congressmen from jersey”

    Yes, he could, but then he wouldn’t have been doing his job. He’s the Governor of New Jersey. He’s supposed to work for New Jersey, not the Republican Party. Granted, a Democrat governor dealing with a Republican President would have stuck the knife in and twisted. But I think Christie is interested in doing the job he got elected to do, rather than running for another job higher up. At least for now.

    If he starts to run for President at the expense of his work as governor some time in the future, THEN I will get mad at him.

    C. S. P. Schofield (fdfc57)

  291. Perry wrote: “Honesty dictates that we attribute too much spending to both sides of the aisle: Bush almost doubled the debt by two wars and medicare D, so far Obama has increased it by 50% more as a result of a great recession. Your point is selective/dishonest for partisan ideological purposes.”

    The dishonesty in Perry’s comments is manifest as he exaggerates Bush’s deficits upward and Obama’s deficits down. Obama added as much in 4 years to the deficit as Bush did in 8 years … so his “increased by 50% ” is mathematically false. Obama doubled it – a 100% increase in percentage terms.

    SPQR (768505)

  292. Perry is an example of the Biden-esque habit of Democrats to rewrite history wholesale to whitewash their own actions.

    Well, SPQR, wasn’t it Stalin who said something along the lines of “winners are the ones who get to record history”? The modern variant of that is that the left has won the media and academia, so they get to be the ones who record history as they perceived it.

    JVW (f5695c)

  293. Comment by C. S. P. Schofield — 11/7/2012 @ 3:08 pm

    Thanks for that comment. I am mystified why everyone wants to turn Chris Cristie into this year’s scapegoat. I said it yesterday and will repeat it again: Christie’s awkward and unfortunately embrace of Obama probably cost us a mere handful of votes in swing states, certainly not enough to make a difference. I truly believe that, barring some realistic polling data that tells me otherwise. We got outflanked by an Obama ground game that we did not expect, and that’s why there will be a second Obama term.

    I don’t think Chris Christie is some sort of savior, but Republicans can learn a lot from his principles and his tactics. He has been willing to tell hard truths to his fellow New Jerseyans — that the state is broke, they can’t have all the goodies that Florio and Corzine promised them, and that raising taxes just makes things worse — and he has been willing to take on the public sector unions who are the heart of the problem that most states and municipalities are facing. When school teachers berate him at public appearances, Christie doesn’t sit there and try to reason with them, he tells them exactly why they are wrong and matches their vitriol sneer for sneer. Once public employee unions are brought back to reality at the statewide level their influence over national politics will likely wane, and that will be a positive development for conservatism.

    JVW (f5695c)

  294. Christie is not someone you want in your foxhole

    Unless maybe if you’re on Atkins

    happyfeet (4ad8e2)

  295. Christie backstabs a good man, like Bret Schundler to curry favor with the unions, vouches for the attorneys for Hamas operatives, etc, etc, Just as he gladhands the one who is relentlessly tearing our country down, and this apparently cave him some credibility.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  296. …the left has won the media and academia, so they get to be the ones who record history as they perceived it.
    Comment by JVW — 11/7/2012 @ 3:16 pm

    Exactly. It is now “history” that Bush was responsible for an economic collapse so bad it has lasted 10 years, from the recession and “jobless recovery” of his own presidency to the near-collapse of the financial system that Obama got into office just in time to forestall. Bush “got us into two wars” (forget that we were attacked first). Ignore that the economy Bush inherited was about at the time of the dotcom bubble bursting, and that the underpinnings of the real estate collapse that lead to the financial collapse should have been rightly attributed to Dodd and Frank (instead of letting them make up bad legislation).

    If I believed the common vernacular version of history I would have voted for Obama too.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  297. And the irony, MD, is they will run Andrew Cuomo, who as HUD secretary, did force banks to lend, as their standard bearer, along with rocket surgeons like the twit from Maryland.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  298. I’m still surprised there was less turnout for Romney/anti-Obama after one term than there was for McCain. Romney was at least as good as McCain, I think, and what was reassuring about Obama’s first term to have less desire to get rid of him?

    I would like to see numbers by state and see if there are explanations for lower voter turnout other than invoking conspiracy theories of not counting repub votes.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  299. It’s a blizzard in Connecticut after a hurricane eight days ago so where’s Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band when you really need them?

    Birdbath (716828)

  300. Christie backstabs a good man, like Bret Schundler to curry favor with the unions, vouches for the attorneys for Hamas operatives, etc, etc, Just as he gladhands the one who is relentlessly tearing our country down, and this apparently cave him some credibility.

    OK, Christie is an egomaniac, but he still shows Republicans a pretty damn good game plan for how to attack the left. Maybe you can’t trust him as far as you can throw him, but you can learn a lot from watching him operate.

    JVW (f5695c)

  301. Comment by narciso — 11/7/2012 @ 3:34 pm

    Because mortgages were made years ago that were bad credit risks there are now vague regulations that make lenders afraid to lend if the property doesn’t meet certain conditions. So even though we have excellent credit and owe less than 50% of the appraised value, because it is a 100 year old property in need of work we can’t refinance now, even though we refinanced 10 years ago when the house was in worse shape and we had a worse debt/value ratio.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  302. No, you can’t, and I gave you three examples, it would be ironic if Corey ‘hostage tape’ Booker beat him next year.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  303. I’m still surprised there was less turnout for Romney/anti-Obama after one term than there was for McCain.

    Possible theories:
    1. The general negativity of the campaign, especially from the Obama side, turned off a lot of potential voters on both sides.
    2. Obama smartly did not run as a candidate of bold plans or massive change this year, so some people who opposed him last time around figured that he hadn’t wrecked the country yet and probably wasn’t going to do so in the next four years.
    3. Similarly, there wasn’t so much Obama-worship and cult of personality as four years ago, so there also wasn’t a major backlash against that sort of thing that would bring out anti-Obama voters.
    4. I hope this isn’t true, but perhaps a certain percentage of Evangelicals (and maybe Catholics too) in the end were not willing to come out and vote for a Mormon.

    JVW (f5695c)

  304. JVW,

    I know of zero Catholics who have an issue with voting for a Mormon.
    Among conservatives, “I can’t vote for a Mormon !” tends to be the domain of evangelicals and secular types.

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  305. “Christie’s awkward and unfortunately embrace of Obama probably cost us a mere handful of votes in swing states, certainly not enough to make a difference.”

    JVW – My family in New York state still without power this afternoon.

    Heckuva job Gov. Cuomo and Pres. Downgrade!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  306. JVW – My family in New York state still without power this afternoon.

    Yeah, but that is Bush’s fault.

    JVW (f5695c)

  307. @elissa – I wouldn’t call it “revenge” exactly. It’s really just my cynical response to what feels like the coming cultural tidal wave, that we are in the middle of a transition to European social democracy. I guess thinking about how conservatives now have to fight against not only liberals/Dems, but the media, academia and popular culture just leaves me feeling exhausted and, quite frankly, rather hopeless. I don’t consider myself a quitter, but seeing it all come together last night just felt awful.

    Tyler Hood (4a137d)

  308. JVW – Of course, my bad.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  309. I know of zero Catholics who have an issue with voting for a Mormon.

    I don’t know any either, but then my parish is mostly young families and affluent retirees, and we tend somewhat to the moderate side of The Church (female altar servers, an occasional guitar player at Mass, priests who use gender-neutral language such as ‘for us and for our salvation’ instead of ‘for us men and. . .’) I am wondering if there are some old school conservative ethnic parishes in midwestern states such as PA, WI, and OH where Catholics are less likely to warm to a Mormon. I hope that the effect was minimal if it even existed, but I am stumped as to why Romney didn’t attract more votes.

    JVW (f5695c)

  310. The modern variant of that is that the left has won the media and academia, so they get to be the ones who record history as they perceived it.

    How did they win the media and academia?

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  311. The demographics tell the story. The GOP has to change.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  312. How did they win the media and academia?

    They took the positions there, then hired like-minded people, agitated for trendy social policies like “diversity” until the older generation got tired and acquiesced, then made sure once they reached the levers of power that they systematically kept out anyone who didn’t toe the political line. There’s a reason that so few history, literature, psychology, philosophy (etc.) professors are conservatives, and it really isn’t because there aren’t any conservatives who want those jobs.

    Read up on what Mark Steyn says about this. He makes the great point that while we were heralding the conservative ascendency during the Reagan years we were blind to the fact that a generation reared in the counterculture was taking over the newsrooms and classrooms. We won the battle but lost the war, and it is becoming more and more clear with each passing year.

    JVW (f5695c)

  313. No front page-type reporting on the Puerto Rico vote, it’s as if it never happened.

    When it is reported, it’s reported in a deliberately misleading manner because the vote was set up so as to be deliberately misleading.

    Puerto Ricans did not vote for statehood, if by that you mean as opposed to the status quo.

    Amphipolis (e01538)

  314. It was similar to what the ‘Monty Python’ generation, wrought in Britain, and the likes of
    ‘Spitting Image’ continued.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  315. Michael Ejercito@4:12–It’s from 40 years of indoctrination in the nation’s grammar, Jr. high, high schools, and universities. Those now grown up kids are politicians, journalists, authors, filmmakers. They also are everyday people living in neighborhoods across the country. If the kids had parents who understood history and economics as many of us here obviously do, there was at least a counterbalance at home to the leftist dogma at sschool. But many kids do not have that parental involvement. This is what the Annenberg Challenge was all about. This is why Bill Ayers has spent his post bombing terrorist life in “education reform”.

    elissa (1f30eb)

  316. Yes elissa, it’s intriguing to discover where many of the educational theories, including those that underpin ‘Head Start come from,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  317. what it means is that we are all screwed, just that Failifornia is on the tip of the shaft.

    that and everyone i know now, or that i learn of in the future, that voted for all this is dead to me, now and forever. you can all go to hell. i’ve got no problem being alone if the alternative is to live with the willfully stupid, fools & thieves.

    FOAD.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  318. We won the battle but lost the war, and it is becoming more and more clear with each passing year.

    So true, JVW. Repubs have to appear on Leno, Jon Stewart, etc., and make their arguments in short sound bytes, over and over again, until they permeate the culture. Right now the media and academia point to people like the 2 anti-abortion senate candidates as what the GOP is all about.

    Make it about freedom, prosperity, privacy instead. Keep it up for a few years and you might make some progress.

    I know; I’m a former liberal.

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  319. Bill Whittle is on a tear tonight. A New Beginning … Ninety minutes, you’ll feel better. Or at least I did.

    htom (412a17)

  320. After a long thread, Patricia, that’s a great insight into what the GOP needs to do to not only cast a wider net, but to accurately represent Republicans.

    The MSM/Dems have completely defined our identity and the public has bought it. Our counter to that must be to render a constant and genuinely true picture of *real* conservatism and I agree, it must be on the pop culture guru shows, the late nights, etc. But our representation must be less those babbling gasbags who can’t control their impulses and/or passions regarding the social issues.

    Moreover, we must convince that we are fiscally smart and understand how an economy works and what drives it.

    With that, in conjunction with the economy, I think we have got to convince people that being a taker is not nearly as rewarding (on a number of levels) as being a maker.

    Dana (292dcf)

  321. Right now the media and academia point to people like the 2 anti-abortion senate candidates as what the GOP is all about.

    Agreed.

    “Vote for me and I will make sure that if your little girl gets herself raped and becomes pregnant, the government will make sure she has the baby whether she likes it or not” has never worked as a campaign platform.

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  322. Who do we have to convince the unredeemably ignorant who think Stewart and Colbert, are telling th truth, the folks who see nothing with having fundraisers while an ambassador lies dead, and people are freezing in the post Sandy interregnum.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  323. Sadly, narcisco, less people care about Benghazi than they do about John Stewart. That’s who we have to reach.

    Dana (292dcf)

  324. They don’t care, Dana, you would have thought that Sandy would have given them a clue, but no it wasn’t facts don’t matter, ‘we’re amusing ourselves
    to death’ re Neil Postman, and I’m not being metaphorical.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  325. “there was at least a counterbalance at home to the leftist dogma at sschool”

    elissa – My oldest son was more of a fire breathing conservative than me and finished his last two years of college at a very liberal institution. The professors enjoyed having him around because they had somebody to be devil’s advocate all the time, but the infection eventually got to him and he has turned partly wobbly.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  326. Oh Lord, more insult to injury….
    Luis Fortuno lost re-election in Puerto Rico.

    What the hell is wrong with people ?

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  327. 259. Four points better than Urkel among Indies or a twelve point swing with swingers over 2008.

    Since the pie was 30% of the electorate something more than 3% or 4 million votes.

    Since Barky lost 10M and Romney 2M, he got a third back in enhanced cachet.

    Guess the remaining 8M are on Booosh?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  328. Sadly, narcisco, less people care about Benghazi than they do about John Stewart. That’s who we have to reach.

    Why has not the broadcast and print media networks reached them about Benghazi?

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  329. Because they would have to unspike the football, re AQ’s north african affiliates.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  330. Four points better than Urkel among Indies or a twelve point swing with swingers over 2008.

    Since the pie was 30% of the electorate something more than 3% or 4 million votes.

    Since Barky lost 10M and Romney 2M, he got a third back in enhanced cachet.

    Guess the remaining 8M are on Booosh?

    When was the last time a presidential candidate that won independents lose the election?

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  331. Four points better than Urkel among Indies or a twelve point swing with swingers over 2008.

    Since the pie was 30% of the electorate something more than 3% or 4 million votes.

    Since Barky lost 10M and Romney 2M, he got a third back in enhanced cachet.

    Guess the remaining 8M are on Booosh?

    Cite?

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  332. “Four points better than Urkel among Indies or a twelve point swing with swingers over 2008.”

    gary – Thanks for the info. Freaking horrible choice. Shoulda picked one of the tomato cans who couldn’t garner enough votes to make it through the primaries instead.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  333. If the world didn’t end with a with a hormone-deficient, brokebacked, spoiled, narcissistic satyr in 1960, it won’t end with a spineless, narcissistic, golfplaying SCOAMF in 2012.

    Relax, guys. America has survived worse and bounced back.

    As far as judicial appointments go …

    48 states had carry, one way or another, before Heller. Vote in your local elections.

    nk (875f57)

  334. You didn’t hear about the UN convention on small arms that will start in the spring, nk.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  335. It was a typical election: Every candidate I voted for lost, and all the bad propositions passed.

    Well, except for the death penalty one.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  336. 330. CNN national exit polls for ’08 and ’12 plus Math, ick.

    331. The point being next time we won’t lie to our people like they do?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  337. Remember when he said he didn’t have the power to ban handguns

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/11/hours-after-obama-victory-us-backs-un-arms-treaty/

    narciso (ee31f1)

  338. daleyrocks-
    A Northshore couple I’ve known since college and are among my closest friends have two young adult college educated children. The parents have tried to raise them right- that is to take care of their bodies, to be responsible human beings and citizens, and to use all the tools they have been given to be independent thinkers and good/wise decision makers. Their son is to the right of Alex P. Keaton and daughter is a budding and increasingly obnoxious feminazi. It happens, and there’s no explanation for it.

    elissa (1f30eb)

  339. 337. “Who knows whether their son will be wise or a fool”, Qoheleth.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  340. I seldom comment here, but this is pretty much the only blog I ever comment on and I have a thought I want put out there about today’s Republican party.

    I have heard several professional pontificators talk today about how this election calls into question the center-right nature of the Republic. I heard Bill Kristol tonight on Special Report with Bret Baier say Republicans need a younger face and a more effective voice for the conservative cause. Karl Rove said we’ve got to find a way to address issues that are important to Latino voters.

    That all sounds nice, but that’s not transformational thinking. I think they’ve missed the forest for the trees. The issue is not that the nation has tilted to center-left. The issue is that the Republican Party is playing by the liberal view that rights are endowed by the state and we must advocate for the rights we believe Americans should espouse. As a result, the GOP is a party held hostage to the social values issues, and we no longer represent the majority on those social values.

    I live my life by the conservative values that the Republican Party strives to represent. But my values are not endowed by the government; they are endowed by my Creator. And while my pursuit of happiness might be completely in line with conservative values, I reject the Republican Party’s belief that my pursuit of happiness is the path all Americans should pursue.

    You want to expand the Republican party beyond the social-issue Republicans? Honor all Americans for their right to pursue their happiness in their own way. A majority Republican party will necessarily look a lot more libertarian. A majority of Americans no longer share my conservative values, but they do share my desire to pursue happiness without Federal Government intervention.

    The Republican party is not in disarray. It’s very well organized and I think was well led by Mitt Romney. But if we hope to break out of what is apparently the new status quo (52/48 losses), we need to break the paradigm that accepts the idea elections are about voting for the guy who is going to get the government to make everyone else agree with me.

    Once we grab the mantle of Liberty and abandon efforts to affect social change by infringing on others’ right to exercise their Liberty, we will once again be a majority party.

    dbnr (d3ebd9)

  341. 332. Most voting Nov. 6, 1860 did live to see 1865, its true.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  342. Kevin M, that sounds so good, but do you really think there is evidence to support that theory? I hate polls and polling like the devil, but isn’t it now painfully obvious that the polls really were rather consistent, (except for a few notable spikes like the first debate) and that especially with respect to EC projections they did not change all that much over a period of months? I’d be interested in proof you’ve seen that either Sandy storm, or Sandy politics in he media, affected votes on either side of this 2012 presidential race.

    I only care about two polls — Gallup and Rasmussen’s large sample tracking polls which consistently had Romney up among likely voters by 3-6 points between the first debate and Sandy. (Gallup started their likely-voter poll version somewhat later, but the statement still holds).

    The last polls for both (before Sandy knocked both firms offline), was about +5 for Romney. A week later, on the Monday before the election, they were at Romney +1 or even. Rasmussen’s Congressional preference, which had been 3-8 points +R for over a year, was suddenly at even that same Monday.

    Sandy, and the coverage of Sandy, and Christie’s total nuking of the “Obama can’t work with Republicans” meme, along with the sudden distraction from the Benghazi issue and Romney having no way to get press — all this totaled Romney’s coast-to-victory-while-Obama-defends-Libya strategy.

    Now, I don’t know that Romney could have saved it a week later, but 10 days earlier or no Sandy? You betcha.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  343. (I meant to note in the above, I meant the likely-voter Gallup poll, not the registered voter poll.)

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  344. 339. An eloquent, reasoned argument.

    I think we need to reduce the population by means of rapacious, armed conflict.

    To quote Iowahawk’s tweet of last evening, “Greece is the word, is the word, the word,..”

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  345. Election 2012 Likely Voters Trial Heat: Obama vs. Romney
    Among likely voters
    ————————————————————————-
    Date Obama Romney
    10/1-7/2012 48 48
    10/2-8/2012 47 49
    10/3-9/2012 48 48
    10/4-10/2012 47 48
    10/5-11/2012 47 49
    10/6-12/2012 47 49
    10/7-13/2012 47 49
    10/8-14/2012 47 49
    10/9-15/2012 46 50
    10/10-16/2012 45 51
    10/11-17/2012 45 52
    10/12-18/2012 45 51
    10/13-19/2012 45 51
    10/14-20/2012 45 52
    10/15-21/2012 45 51
    10/16-22/2012 46 51
    10/17-23/2012 47 50
    10/18-24/2012 47 50
    10/19-25/2012 46 51
    10/20-26/2012 46 51
    10/21-27/2012 46 50
    10/22-28/2012 46 51
    11/1-4/2012 48 49

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  346. dbnr,

    Thanks for taking the time to make that comment. It is a very good one, and makes me wish that you would comment more.

    I think the thing for the Republican party to do, personally, is to be the party of freedom. What the Libertarian party could be, if it were not run by kooks. The more I read Milton Friedman and Hayek, the more sympathy I have to the point of view that “conservatism” is not the ideal. Freedom is. And they’re not the same thing.

    As Friedman said: “Don’t attribute to me your conventional views of what a quote ‘conservative’ believes because I’m not a conservative — I’m a believer in freedom!”

    Patterico (8b3905)

  347. I think dbnr’s point might need to be elevated into a post.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  348. Honor all Americans for their right to pursue their happiness in their own way.

    How so?

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  349. It’s possible that without the hurricane and with a better tactical race, Romney would have won. I think 15% in exit polls said the hurricane influenced their vote.

    I continue to believe that the Romney campaign leaving accusations unanswered, like the claim he wanted GM to disappear, was incompetent. That and the hurricane would explain the late deciders breaking to Obama and there were a lot of late deciders.

    The Democrats will respond immediately to each and every accusation. Republicans don’t do that which I find bizarre. They should have run ads refuting it, quoting from what Romney actually said, and basically calling Obama a liar. But Republicans are instinctively afraid of that type of thing. They know there would be some nuclear reaction from the Dems and media and they can’t handle it.

    The bottom line is, people diagnosing this as an electorate that’s moved to the left are getting it mostly wrong IMO.

    Of course the Romney shortcomings wouldn’t explain the lousy Senate results, even discounting the two that shot themselves in the foot.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  350. 333.You didn’t hear about the UN convention on small arms that will start in the spring, nk.

    Comment by narciso — 11/7/2012 @ 6:04 pm

    The UN has been masturbating over that since Kofi Anan, narciso. Must be twenty years, now.

    All treaties must be Constitutional, before the the Supremacy Clause kicks in. Also ratified by the Senate, BTW?

    nk (875f57)

  351. dbur–

    I think everyone here knows liberty-oriented people who will not vote Republican because of a key issue or issues.

    Abortion is probably the first such wedge. We have been fighting this now for 40 years and have no prospect of winning. Perhaps it is time to admit it is not a viable political issue.

    The Mexican immigration problem needs a solution, and the current tools are not very useful. Perhaps we need to admit that we have a special relationship with Mexico — something like Canada, say — and regularize a bidirectional flow of people and capital. The Mexicans would have to allow things they don’t want to allow as well, such as asset ownership. They would also have to agree to help prevent specified persons from crossing.

    Living in California, it’s not too hard to see how toxic these two issues have been to the Republican brand in CA. We’ve been losing ground in CA for a couple decades and there doesn’t seem to be much hope so long as these attitudes prevail.

    We also need to open the tent on gay rights, but hat may be all we need to do right now.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  352. I think dbnr’s point might need to be elevated into a post.

    Splendid idea. It was eloquent and timely.

    JVW (f5695c)

  353. In any case, I carried a rifle when I was nine and a pistol when I was fifteen. Nobody needs permission to go armed, it’s a contradiction in terms.

    nk (875f57)

  354. What does Obama do most of the time in his speeches? Sets up straw men and knocks them down, and the majority of people don’t figure out how empty his rhetoric is, and the media doesn’t call him on it. I guess most people have a very severe case of Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia and believe a lot of what they hear. I mean really, Obama says, “I kept all of my commitments and promises I made”. I’m not sure I want to figure out how to appeal to people who fall for that, except to help them get over it. If one wants to vote for him, fine, but don’t let him say he kept his promises to be fiscally responsible or transparent or post partisan.

    we need to break the paradigm that accepts the idea elections are about voting for the guy who is going to get the government to make everyone else agree with me.

    Well, that depends a bit on who you are letting frame the paradigm. Am I trying to make everyone agree with me that marriage is between a man and a woman, or is someone else trying to make me agree that any two people can be married, whether same or different sexes? I’m not trying to mandate that others share my beliefs about same-sex relationships, I’m just asking that what has been recognized by society for thousands of years continue to be recognized.

    Speaking of pursuing happiness in our own way- what do you think will happen to the creativity and productivity at Microsoft once people start smoking pot? Who wants to fly in an airplane built in WA that was put together by someone who was smoking prior to his shift?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  355. I don’t mind small “l” libertarians if they will also admit that humans are a communal, societal, cooperative species.

    nk (875f57)

  356. This election was about “first fill their bellies and then teach them virtue”, MD.

    nk (875f57)

  357. Tyler Hood. I agree with you.. and I have to admit dnbr as well.

    Let’s let them have their party their way. It is going to explode here soon with the Chinese bubble about to burst, and Obamacare about to set in.

    Let our reps go and talk and soundbite just as dnbr says. I agree. I am more conservative… but personal freedom is a lovely thing.. especially if we move out the way.. so they see that they have less and less with the party that now leads, and have less money, more debt and perhaps the worst financial disaster the world will experience in the wings. We are strong.. we can pray .. rebuild. and note that freedom is the point. Let our reps vote like president.. President. .and let them own the whole exploding balloon themselves.

    Noelie (79cee7)

  358. Ooops.. I meant to say “present!” lol

    Noelie (79cee7)

  359. I agree with MD. I so want to be libertarian and support repealing marijuana laws, but I think the last thing the Obama generation needs to go along with their distracting mobile devices, Internet porn, vampire television shows, Gangnam-style dances and six-year college stays is easy access to marijuana. Hell, we’ll never get any production out of them now.

    JVW (f5695c)

  360. Re #348, post #344 illustrates my point.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  361. but nk, their bellies aren’t going to be well filled very long. People need to learn, not virtue, just a little bit of reality. An animal that lunges for something desirable without thinking is an animal caught in a trap. If the NE section of Ohio loses out on oil and gas exploration and the industry to go with it because of EPA enforcers it will not be their virtue they will be worrying about.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  362. And not to be a wet blanket, but the problem with co-opting the whole libertarian thing and emphasizing freedom is the old saw that your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose. We’ll still have the same old fights about abortion, how and if to teach about homosexuality in schools, how much pollution is the acceptable price for commerce, etc. I am not totally against promoting the freedom agenda, but we better be prepared to answer those questions from the onset.

    JVW (f5695c)

  363. What could the most radical pro-life elected president ever do, BTW? Appoint judges that would overturn Roe v Wade and Casey or whatever? And what happens then? The issue goes back to the states.

    It needs to be articulated well, for much of politics is how to sound good while saying little, but I do think the majority of Americans would recoil from the Obama extreme of advocating infanticide if necessary to insure an abortion was “successful”, but it doesn’t get presented that way.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  364. Patrick,
    Reading Hayek’s Road to Serfdom helped me come to my political views, over from the liberal side.

    It’s about freedom–not about adhering to another set of values imposed by another.

    That would “sell”. As I say, the media portray cons as people obsessed with sexual repression.

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  365. As I say, the media portray cons as people obsessed with sexual repression.

    And, oh, of course, obsessed with black people. See the big headline at Drudge tonight? The 2016 campaign just began.

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  366. From a comment over at PowerLine:
    McCain got 59.9 million votes Obama got 69.4 million as of right now Romney got 57.7 million and Obama has 60.5 million. That is a drop of 2.2 million votes for Romney from McCain. Here is the kicker though. Of that 2.2 million 1.4 million is from California. The only swing state Romney didn’t outperform McCain in was Ohio. Obama on the other hand lost over 1 million voters in Swing states and the only state he did as well in as he did in 2008 was North Carolina.

    So, in many places, especially swing states, Romney did do better, just not enough. I think there were referendum issues for CA that got a lot of people out in 08.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  367. Lenin called it “momentary interests”.

    My father told me a story when young. Kruschev was appointed by Stalin to conduct purges. Kruschev had the Communist Party “faithful” lined up. He asked each why they were Communists. Each one, except one, recited the party line. That one said, “My family was starving and the komissar gave us a sack of potatoes”. He was the only survivor.

    nk (875f57)

  368. The Republican party is not in disarray. It’s very well organized and I think was well led by Mitt Romney.

    Led to a well organized defeat. Again. And make no mistake, with Obama’s numbers based on previous data, yje polotical science says he should have lost. Except he didn’t. Because the country has changed. And the GOP all but handed six or seven U.S. Senate seats over a few cycles because they nominated nutballs. The GOP should have the Senate. They don’t. Because the country has changed.

    The party has to change. The country has.

    If there had never been a Reagan and Romney ran in ’80, he’d likely have won with the demographics of that era. But the party that messages in 2012 that the economics of the 1920′s, the social policies of the 1950′s and the foreign policy of the 1980′s light the path to a shinning city on a hill lost its second presidential cycle in a row. It’s doubtful a Reagan of 1980 could have made it throught the GOP orimaries of this era.

    The party has to change. To attract old friends– and young faces– who have left it to its past ‘glories,’ and moved… forward.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  369. IMO, Republicans started down the road to yesterday’s defeat during the interminable, nasty primaries with the numerous nationally televised debates. There were way too many people thinking they wanted to be president and some persons on those debate stages (while most of them are decent people) clearly were never viable nationally and had no business being there in consideration for the U.S. presidency in the first place. Early on, I believe, this soured some independents on the Republican brand and the obvious disconnect gave the media and Obama camp propaganda fodder and talking points even before we had chosen a candidate to run against the president. I ultimately came to believe Mitt was the best of the bunch, as clearly most Republicans also did since he won primary after primary. After he was the nominee my respect for him grew the more I saw him on the trail and heard him speak from the heart. His was not a perfect campaign and I think he missed some key opportunities by being too nice and gentlemanly and classy. But that’s who he is and who he always has been (except of course for that vicious prep school hair cutting incident /sarc). In a few days I plan to write him and Ann as well as the Ryans a note to thank them for their hard work because I think both families deserve our thanks.

    elissa (1f30eb)

  370. If you can’t beat em, join ‘em. I have made up my mind. The givemefreeshit voters repealed the 13th Amendment and re-instituted slavery and indentured servitude by voting for President Givesmefreeshit and making every taxpaying citizen their slaves. And since I refuse to be enslaved, I am quitting my job, moving to the blue state of Colorado and leaching off their ass.

    I’m gonna squat my ass down on some govt land, get me some free Obammywelfare, Obammyfoodstamps, Obammycaid, an Obammyphone, grow me some Obammyweed for my own use and to sell a little on the side for that extra cash. I’m gonna sit on my ass smoking my Obammyweed all day long, and when I get the munchies, gonna reach over, grab a bag of Cheetohs that I boughts with my Obammyfoodstamps and pig out.

    And since I don’t have that many years left to live, hopefully I will last until the ratio of nontaxpayers becomes greater than actual taxpaying citizens, at which time this country will be completely bankrupted and all the free stuff ends. I hope to do this with a joint in one hand, a beer in the other, and a bag of Cheetohs in the last one. I will then be able to die with a smile on my face as the makers rise up and strike down the takers.

    No longer peedoffamerican, but

    pissedofftokedoutmemberofthenewestBananaRepublic (ee1de0)

  371. I put up dbnr’s comment here.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  372. We also need to open the tent on gay rights, but hat may be all we need to do right now.

    Why?

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  373. “Once again, Steve Den Beste sums up my feelings better than I can.”

    SPQR:

    That post and the Zero Hedge one are quite good. Question, though: if the dollar ceased to be the preferred currency of the world, what would take its place?

    I have a hard time picturing which other currency could possibly take its place. Any ideas?

    Patterico (8b3905)

  374. Republicans started down the road to yesterday’s defeat during the interminable, nasty primaries with the numerous nationally televised debates.

    I agree. We aren’t much of a team.

    I ultimately came to believe Mitt was the best of the bunch, as clearly most Republicans also did since he won primary after primary.

    And most Republicans also thought Mccain was a better candidate than Romney. And both won on an argument of electability. We need to rethink this electable moderate thing. Probably should have in 1996. The votes aren’t there. This is not poli sci 101 where seeking the exact center = most votes. It’s the real world. We want to support a leader who commands respect with his honest to God principles.

    There were way too many people thinking they wanted to be president and some persons on those debate stages (while most of them are decent people) clearly were never viable nationally

    Imagine: a campaign built around leaders who are so good at leading that they are still leading something (other than a five year old political campaign).

    Real leaders are constrained by reality. Politicians can promise to cut the deficit while increasing all our programs, or make 180s a the drop of a hat, but real leaders are graded on results. It would be nice if those real leaders would put in the dedication Romney had for debate prep. We need Romney’s passion to win too. He definitely gave this his all.

    We need both aspects.

    Dustin (73fead)

  375. I have a hard time picturing which other currency could possibly take its place. Any ideas?

    Gold

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  376. I did not want mittens, but once again fell in line and did my best to support the republican loser. I want to say never again, but am a team player to a fault. I do admire the Romney’s as they tried in vain to help America out of it’s hell hole. But nice guys suck in combat. The republicans will continue to lose and lose big with the progressives that lead the lame duck party.
    Reload,reload,reload it’s going to be a long 4 years. I’m glad my wife and I canned food from our garden.

    mg (31009b)

  377. An alloy of 50% gold and 50% depleted uranium. Bars and coins, weights in multiples of 20g.

    htom (412a17)

  378. And most Republicans also thought Mccain was a better candidate than Romney. And both won on an argument of electability. We need to rethink this electable moderate thing. Probably should have in 1996. The votes aren’t there.

    I believe Romney would have won two weeks before the election. Late deciders broke for Obama as I suspected they would. I think the hurricane was part of that and also some very heavy attacks on Romney late when they were sort of campaigning by rote, saying we can’t afford four more years etc. His campaign themes were predominantly conservative. No Republican would have won in 1996 or 2008.

    Unless there’s some polling data that shows a few million voters would have voted for Romney had they perceived him as more conservative this doesn’t hold water. Remember he would have lost some voters if he came across as more ideological so these additional voters would have to be enough to compensate for them as well. We’re probably talking about 5 million or more such voters. I don’t think that block of voters is anywhere near that size.

    Gerald A (138c50)

  379. Comment number 73 on the debt crash thread:

    Comment by calypso louis farrakhan — 11/8/2012 @ 11:26 am

    One female Jewish friend informed me no way would vote for Romney as he would ban all abortions plus he was a f**king Mormon. Isn’t that special? I see no racism in Philly with some inner city precincts going 99% for the chosen one.

    The idea that electing Romney could ead to the banning of all abortions was Democratic Party strategy:

    Vice President Joe Biden in the Vice Presidential debate, Thursday October 11, 2012:

    Now, with regard to the way in which the – we differ, my friend says
    that he – well, I guess he accepts Governor Romney’s position now,
    because in the past he has argued that there was – there’s rape and
    forcible rape. He’s argued that, in the case of rape or incest, it was
    still – it would be a crime to engage in having an abortion. I just
    fundamentally disagree with my friend.

    MS. RADDATZ: Congressman Ryan.

    REP. RYAN: All I’m saying is if you believe that life begins at
    conception, that therefore doesn’t change the definition of life. That’s
    a principle. The policy of a Romney administration is to oppose abortion
    with exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother. Now, I’ve got
    to take issue with the Catholic Church and religious liberty.

    VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: You have, on the issue of Catholic social
    doctrine, taken issue.

    REP. RYAN: If they – if they agree with you, then why would they keep -
    why would they keep suing you? It’s a distinction without a difference.

    VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: (Chuckles.)

    MS. RADDATZ: I want to go back to the abortion question here. If the
    Romney-Ryan ticket is elected, should those who believe that abortion
    should remain legal be worried?

    REP. RYAN: We don’t think that unelected judges should make this
    decision; that people, through their elected representatives and

    Now, with regard to the way in which the – we differ, my friend says
    that he – well, I guess he accepts Governor Romney’s position now,
    because in the past he has argued that there was – there’s rape and
    forcible rape. He’s argued that, in the case of rape or incest, it was
    still – it would be a crime to engage in having an abortion. I just
    fundamentally disagree with my friend.

    Just ask yourself: With Robert Bork being the chief adviser on the court
    for – for Mr. Romney, who do you think he’s likely to appoint? Do you
    think he’s likely to appoint someone like Scalia or someone else on the
    court, far right, that would outlaw Planned – excuse me – outlaw
    abortion? I suspect that would happen.

    I guarantee you that will not happen. We picked two people. We picked
    people who are open-minded. They’ve been good justices. So keep an eye
    on the Supreme Court -

    MS. RADDATZ: I want to go back to the abortion question here. If the
    Romney-Ryan ticket is elected, should those who believe that abortion
    should remain legal be worried?

    REP. RYAN: We don’t think that unelected judges should make this
    decision; that people, through their elected representatives and
    reaching a consensus in society through the democratic process, should
    make this determination.

    VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: The court – the next president will get one or two
    Supreme Court nominees. That’s how close Roe v. Wade is.

    Just ask yourself: With Robert Bork being the chief adviser on the court
    for – for Mr. Romney, who do you think he’s likely to appoint? Do you
    think he’s likely to appoint someone like Scalia or someone else on the
    court, far right, that would outlaw Planned – excuse me – outlaw
    abortion? I suspect that would happen.

    I guarantee you that will not happen. We picked two people. We picked
    people who are open-minded. They’ve been good justices. So keep an eye
    on the Supreme Court -

    rOMNEY

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  380. The more I read Milton Friedman and Hayek, the more sympathy I have to the point of view that “conservatism” is not the ideal. Freedom is. And they’re not the same thing.

    Patterico, try reading some David Friedman as well.

    And no, “conservatism”, if understood literally, is not an ideal at all. It’s not even a moderately good thing. The tories of the 18th century, and the Republicans of the 19th, were the party of government control. Conservatives in the European sense are the natural allies of the poor who are satisfied to remain poor and receive handouts, and they are both the natural enemies of the productive class, the bourgeoisie, whose natural political philosophy is liberalism. It’s just that in America “liberalism” has come to mean socialism, and “conservatism” has come to mean liberalism.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  381. OK, I know this thread is stale, but looking back I think this point is important.

    All that money spent for those last minute robo calls was counterproductive. Getting bombarded with calls all day long, all of which were either stupid, insulting, patronizing, or just plain wrong, was not helpful and may have contributed to the weak turnout. They actually made me think of staying home out of spite. This may come as a shock, but most people don’t care what Clint Eastwood thinks. I’m pro-life, but I don’t like being preached to about the Supreme Court by a robot that interrupted my family dinner.

    Some calls were made by the campaigns, most by other political organizations. I didn’t think that any – meaning not even one – was even mildly persuasive to my central Pennsylvania neighbors, who, like me, do not appreciate being told what to do. No, they tended to suppress turnout. I can just imagine what they went through in Ohio.

    You can’t badger people to the polls, but you can certainly badger them away. I can say this for certain – I will never contribute a dime to any political campaign or organization that called me.

    Amphipolis (d3e04f)

  382. A couple of astute observations:

    Given the weighty issues revolving about the presidential contest – the country’s decline in the world, crushing debt and bankrupting entitlements.

    And given that the left chose instead to focus on trivial banalities like free rubbers and big bird, voting for the folks who promised to keep up the free goodies looted from others.

    Furthermore, since we shall soon see the folly of their “thinking” in a collapsed economy and worldwide conflict.

    Therefore, provided with said facts and the attendant actions based on those facts: It shall be from here on after that ‘Leftist’ will be synonymous with the term Idiot.

    Kider (316722)

  383. Correction – with my apologies:

    It shall be known from here on after that ‘Leftist’ will be synonymous with the term Idiot.

    Kider (316722)

  384. Number One lesson of the election:

    It’s NOT the economy, stupid.

    It’s competence. In the past, when it has appeared at least in retrospect, to be the economy, it’s only because it was a proxy for competence.

    Sammy Finkelman (da29ec)

  385. Eisenhower didn’t just claim this works he proved it. Tax rates of 70-90% on the wealthy ensured no one was taking money out of the economy, they all reinvested it in business and venture capital. This worked to grow the economy.//

    ==I’ve seen other people make this lunatic argument. Why wouldn’t somebody want to invest at a lower tax rate but does at a high rate? Can you a numeric example of how the calculation works, where they expect to make a better return at a higher rate?

    Why did the economy boom after Kennedy cut rates?

    The reason people don’t want to put money in real businesses when tax rates are low are because it’s easier to get a return just by investing in stocks and paper. I remember the day my dad told me his boss made more money investing on Wall Street than he made running the plant where my dad was the supervisor.

    The richer the boss got, the less interested he was in the business, so it downsized for years and eventually shut down.

    If the tax rate was high, the boss would have needed the plant for a write down. That would have sustained all those jobs, and kept the local economy that much stronger.

    So what’s the difference is between real businesses that produce stuff and paper-pushing investments – it’s the jobs. The government needed to make the boss give a shit about his workers, their families, and the future of the community the business was in.

    We didn’t need stimulus packages when we sufficiently taxed upper brackets, the rich simply knew they weren’t going to pay those rates. So the only question is what kind of business they would invest in – retail, manufacturing, tech, etc.

    It was a win win – the rich created value and the middle class has jobs-a-plenty. So this is the solution, it’s already worked.

    The economy boomed when Kennedy cut rates was because he cut them modestly compared to Reagan. There’s no problem with cutting taxes if and when the economy can sustain it. It’s a matter of balancing employment, inflation, the dollar and looking down the road.

    Reagan was answering to guys like Weyrich and Heritage whose policy was guided by Ayn Randian philosophy of celebrating accumulation of massive wealth, even if it hurts others. They didn’t want a win-win, they wanted winner take all.

    So they convinced everyone tax cuts for them would create jobs using Limbaugh and buying politicans and think tank messaging.

    They said deficits were all caused by safety nets and welfare queens, even though their defense spending was the greater cost. Reagan cut deals with Democrats, resulting in the Two Santa Clauses.

    Reagan did create jobs, but they were crap jobs with less benefits. Family time in America was sharply reduced too. So income disparity and the deficit grew, but they claimed victory because it was a new dawn in propaganda.

    Then the Clinton/Gingrich years showed that more jobs and better jobs and deficit reduction were all possible through a move back towards “earned” income (and base closures).

    But then we went back to Reaganomics and the results speak for themselves. No jobs, huge deficits and inordinate growth in the upper brackets. This time though, the economy did crash and the deficit was spiraling out of control.

    But the propaganda industry thrived, getting even bigger. They pinned the crash on Obama even though it happened before he took office.

    After 2 years or so, they started a new policy of NO more talking about Bush no matter what. But the truth is that both parties were agreed throughout Obama’s tenure on massive military debt spending and renewal of the Bush tax cuts the whole way.

    This week, exit polling showed over half of voters blamed Bush for the economy. Rising health costs are neither party’s fault, but the unfunded tax cuts are both party’s fault.

    As for Obamacare, it’s a Heritage idea that Hillary ran on as a savvy triangulator because she knew it’s actually working in MA, relative to the prior system.

    Obama didn’t want the individual mandate and he beat Hillary in the primaries on that minor difference, only to adopt it later. So now the Democrat health policy is a gigantic mandatory private insurance system and the Republicans want to go back to…

    …?…

    Mahalia Cab (f1eb7f)

  386. And most Republicans also thought Mccain was a better candidate than Romney. And both won on an argument of electability. We need to rethink this electable moderate thing. Probably should have in 1996. The votes aren’t there.

    I believe Romney would have won two weeks before the election. Late deciders broke for Obama as I suspected they would. I think the hurricane was part of that and also some very heavy attacks on Romney late when they were sort of campaigning by rote, saying we can’t afford four more years etc. His campaign themes were predominantly conservative. No Republican would have won in 1996 or 2008.

    Unless there’s some polling data that shows a few million voters would have voted for Romney had they perceived him as more conservative this doesn’t hold water. Remember he would have lost some voters if he came across as more ideological so these additional voters would have to be enough to compensate for them as well. We’re probably talking about 5 million or more such voters. I don’t think that block of voters is anywhere near that size.

    Comment by Gerald A — 11/8/2012 @ 6:41 am

    While Romney’s themes were often conservative, he is not conservative and comes across as dishonest.

    We need to rethink nominating these moderates who come across as politicians who are moderate because they have poll tested everything.

    We need someone whose principles show some spine.

    Remember he would have lost some voters if he came across as more ideological so these additional voters would have to be enough to compensate for them as well.

    This is the heart of our disagreement. When I took freshman Poli Sci, they had a chart proving that all the votes are in the center. A candidate can just seek that point and they will get all the votes.

    Obama didn’t do that. He ran to the left of where he was in 2008, in many respects.

    I don’t think it’s a matter of giving up voters at one point of the spectrum in exchange for others at a more populated point of the spectrum. I think a lot of voters actually will support someone who disagrees with them, if they like and believe in that leader.

    Fewer than half of Republicans surveyed would purchase a car from Mitt Romney. Romney had less support among Mormons than Bush 43 had.

    This is about running in a way that is sharply inconsistent with record, which is a problem most moderates have.

    We need to rethink this moderate Republican business.

    That’s not to say we need a pure politician. That’s not to say we should tolerate idiocy from social conservative leaders (I am socially conservative on most issues, but I can see how Akin was a bonehead).

    We just need someone who proves their vision is authentic. Sometimes, the best way to do this is to take a tough stand instead of the popular one.

    Anyway, it’s not true that no Republican could have won in 2008. Mccain ran a pathetic campaign.

    1996 and 1992 were indeed very tough for the GOP due to a large number of voters being disenchanted with the party. That’s a shame. Clinton did not win a majority, after all. That’s a situation a more principled GOP would have won.

    Dustin (73fead)

  387. You completed a number of nice points there. I did a search on the subject matter and found most persons will agree with your blog.

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