Patterico's Pontifications

10/22/2012

Open Thread: Final Presidential Debate

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 5:34 pm



I listed some potential topics in this morning’s post.

Go Mitt.

745 Responses to “Open Thread: Final Presidential Debate”

  1. The thread is open for business.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  2. The Empty Suit will work hard to “blame Bush”for all of Obama’s failures.

    SPQR (914509)

  3. Candy and McCain on the CNN pre-game show.

    nk (875f57)

  4. Discussing possible topics.

    nk (875f57)

  5. Short of pulling a knife on BS (the moderator) Obama will be seen to be a cross between Averell Harriman and Henry Kissinger.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  6. Steaks are on the grill. Should be done just in time.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  7. McCain says that we are war-weary and that’s what Obama will play on.

    nk (875f57)

  8. TV dinner. And only a pint left in the house.

    nk (875f57)

  9. Better go to the liquor store, nk, a pint ain’t gonna cut it.

    SPQR (914509)

  10. A hearty beef barley veggie stew; fresh steamed beets and salad with a 2007 Syrah…..and those smarmy punks from MSNBC (the wife’s choice)

    Angelo (055eea)

  11. It’s a pint of vodka, SPQR.

    Now CNN is basically wasting time.

    nk (875f57)

  12. Am I a bad person because Sharpton makes me want to pull out my teeth?

    Angelo (055eea)

  13. Rats. Gas ran out after I flipped the steaks and the temperature went down. Now I have to slice them open to see if they’re done.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  14. Seriously, I got delay on Fox, it was probably a secondary, so that’s why I’m watching Wolf. Soledad is a beautiful name. Depending on the context, it could mean solitude, desolation or hermitage.

    nk (875f57)

  15. I have more propane but the usual timing won’t work now because the grill was too cool for a period of time.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  16. I had boudin and brisket here in houma and they gave me enough for breakfast too

    they’re just the sweetest people you could ever hope to meet, these louisianans

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  17. This better not be foreshadowing for how Romney is going to do.

    I choose to think it is not.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  18. Preheat the oven to 450 and put them in for no more than two minutes.

    nk (875f57)

  19. The radio always has a tape delay compared to television..

    Of course there can be even bigger delays. When 60 Minutes is postponed due to football, like yesterday, it is broadcast on WCBS 880 many minutes before what’s on television.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  20. Patterico, you can save the steaks by nudging in the microwave. Personally, I like them blue

    Angelo (055eea)

  21. Maybe 425 to be on the safe side. You could always cook them more, you cannot uncook them.

    Great intro by Schiffer.

    nk (875f57)

  22. We tried to reason objectively as to who won or lost the last debate.

    The reason Romney didn’t do so bad as it sort of looked is that the people watching didn’t start with a knowledge base of Zero.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  23. Maddow is having trouble thinking Mitt is not Bush2

    Angelo (055eea)

  24. They turned out great.

    I think it’s foreshadowing for how Romney is going to do!

    Patterico (8b3905)

  25. nk, ah, with a pint of vodka you can join my friend Stephen Green.

    SPQR (914509)

  26. Wow!! Chrissy is accusing R campaign of being thin, witless zombies. This guy is bats!!t

    Angelo (055eea)

  27. I don’t think the moderators are the main reason that Romney and Ryan had less speaking time than Obama and Biden. Each side could grab as much time as they wantedor try.

    The reason is that often, Romney and Ryan didn’t know what to say – they couldn’t answer the question, or talk about something effectively, so they chose silence.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  28. You guys keep me apprised of the goings-on at MSNBC.

    I’ll stick with Fox.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  29. I don’t think the moderators are the main reason that Romney and Ryan had less speaking time than Obama and Biden. Each side could grab as much time as they wantedor try.

    The reason is that often, Romney and Ryan didn’t know what to say – they couldn’t answer the question, or talk about something effectively, so they chose silence.

    It must be interesting on Planet Finkelman.

    Here on Planet Earth, the moderators interrupted Romney every time he tried to make a point.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  30. Did you know that Candy Crowley let the let the previous Presidential debate go into overtime?

    I believe that’s the first time that’s happened.

    And you thought that whatever else happened, it had to be end after exactly 90 minutes.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  31. Sammy, can you name a few of the times Romney and Ryan “chose silence” during the debates? I can’t recall that happening.

    Dustin (73fead)

  32. Whee! Here we go!

    Patterico (8b3905)

  33. I seem to remember Romney and Ryan being cutoff by Moderators and Joe B.

    BfC (06ea45)

  34. Uh oh, Obama was open and touchy….Mitt stiff at greeting

    Angelo (055eea)

  35. leebeeyuh

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  36. First question on Libya.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  37. Wow, what a setup! Libya to start.

    Felipe (3243af)

  38. Answer the question.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  39. Mitt is rambling and incoherent

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  40. And I mean “setup” as a centerpiece, not a “frame”

    Felipe (3243af)

  41. Answer the question, Mitt.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  42. “We can’t kill our way out of this mess”

    Angelo (055eea)

  43. Pathetic.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  44. We can’t kill our way out of this mess.

    Bravo, Mitt.

    nk (875f57)

  45. He didn’t say anything about Benghazi. That was the question.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  46. Ugh. Another weak start for Mitt.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  47. Does he really mean “decimated”?

    Felipe (3243af)

  48. OK, Obama is addressing Libya head on. Mitt had better take him on NOW.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  49. I’m voting for Romney. But this litany is not really very impressive. Trying the “help Islam” is idiocy. America as World Police is nonsense. A lost opportunity to hammer Obama over what ever the hell happened in Libya and how Obama played politics with it.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  50. there’s that Charlie Brown teacher’s voice again… “wa wah, wa-wah-wah, wa, wah-wah-wah…”

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  51. DO NOT LET HIM OFF THE HOOK.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  52. Romney’s first answer, I think, was a wasted opportunity.

    Alan (098693)

  53. Bamster claims to have liberated Libya

    Angelo (055eea)

  54. 1st round to BHO. %U^%&^

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  55. Obama be doing good. Though he be lying.

    nk (875f57)

  56. He wants to sound like a nice guy.

    So he is letting Obama off the hook 100%.

    Sheesh kabob.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  57. Mitt has to defend himself, not a good start. He shoud have BO defending.

    Felipe (3243af)

  58. Yes, we need to “interrupt” the bad guys. Good observation.

    Alan (098693)

  59. Mitt, snap out of it!

    Angelo (055eea)

  60. Romney’s first answer, I think, was a wasted opportunity.

    Second statement shaping up the same way.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  61. I think the most important thing would have been to protect the Americans, not make sure we catch the killers after the fact.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  62. “We focused our attention on those that actually killed us on 9/11”
    He just can’t quit Booooosh.

    Icy (e24ec9)

  63. Romney’s going hippie.

    nk (875f57)

  64. What the hell is with this nervousness? Damnit, Mitt! BHO lies and people die!!

    Economy as foregin policy???????

    We are in big trubble tonight, my friends.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  65. Ball. Dropped.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  66. Muslims are not rejecting jihad. Stop pretending we can change them through bullets or ballots or dollars will not work. Every concern I had about this debate and Romney wanting to be a dumb war hawk is so far confirmed.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  67. Mitt is name dropping – trying to show chops.

    Felipe (3243af)

  68. Obama keeps being “glad.”

    Patterico (8b3905)

  69. I agree, Patterico. Wasted.

    nk (875f57)

  70. Round two to BHO.

    WTF?!!!!!!!

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  71. Why Mali? Pound Bengazi.

    BillC (89e68e)

  72. Ok mitt isn’t exactly commander in chief material anymore than the twat we have now is the takeaway

    I miss bush

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  73. Sigh.

    It’s going to be a loooooong night.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  74. That condescending community organizer

    Angelo (055eea)

  75. Romney almost stuttering, as he does quite often. Just talking whatever comes into his mind.

    “terrorists of some kind”

    He mentioned Mali!

    Egypt, too.

    Talks about Iran.

    But he’s not saying anything!

    Robust strategy to get Moslems to reject this kind of extremism – which is certainly not on the run.

    Obama much smoother. Platitudes. Things that are not true. Afghanistan is success?

    Obama – on Libya he did

    1) did everything secure

    2) investigate

    3) go after the people who did this and bring them to justice.

    How successful he was in liberating Libya. Remembers the demonstration of people who said America is our frind,

    Glad Romney agrees been successful against Al Qaeda.

    Romney says his strategy is broader. We have to get the Moslem world to reject extremism on their own. How?

    Arab scholars organized by the UN –

    1) economic development

    2) better education

    3) gender equality

    4) Rule of law

    Al Qaeda and jother jihadists rushing in.

    We want to make sure sheeingprogress.

    N. Mali taken over by Al Qaeda Syria

    Obama: I’m glad you think Al Qaeda is a threat because before you said biggest threat was Russia.

    Romney wants for policy of 1980,s social policie of1950 snd econmic of 1920’s

    Everytime Romney has offered an opinion he;s been wrong.

    A lot of that is not wrong.

    Romney is all over the map.

    Bob Schieffer will give Romney more time.

    But he can’t talk well.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  76. Obama is doing a good job hitting Romney, and Romney isn’t hitting back at all yet. This is f***ing terrible. Whose strategy does Romney think is working?

    Alan (098693)

  77. Yes, Pat, a looong night

    Felipe (3243af)

  78. Oh, jeez. Stop whining, Romney.

    Stop being defensive.

    GO ON THE ATTACK.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  79. Oh, Jesus, is Romney giving the same answer a third time now?

    Alan (098693)

  80. Finally some fight in Mitt’s eyes.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  81. STOP GIVING BHO a chance to reply!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  82. NOBODY GIVES A SH!T ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST EXCEPT LEAVING IT. There’s no voters to be won with more war. Romney has spent to much time listening to neocons wanting more. And now he’s getting bogged down in pointless detail. Mail? Force agreements? WTF?

    Bugg (642d2d)

  83. Obama will have to provoke and insult Mitt hard and heavy to get him to find his backbone and hit back twice as hard. Where’s the bully Mitt???

    Dana (292dcf)

  84. lead with his left and caught him with a right cross on Russia

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  85. Body-blow on Putin!

    Icy (e24ec9)

  86. Romney left a mark with the Putin line.

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  87. Romney getting a little better. Good argument on Iraq.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  88. I CAN’T TAKE IT.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  89. We have to build their economies, but we can’t nation build? Hahahahahahah

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  90. Second question on Syria

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  91. 10,000 troops can’t nation build.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  92. Mr. Prissypants did not read his binder of foreign policy briefings

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  93. Romney should spend some time with Ron Paul or pat Buchanan. This was disastrous. Obama got away with a whole lot of gibberish because Romney was incoherent.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  94. Benghazi opportunity is sailing away….

    Felipe (3243af)

  95. So far, Obama is sounding much more prepared for this debate, much more articulate, and much more confident. This is very not good.

    Alan (098693)

  96. Brief momentum shift after Russia comment by Mitt. Good arguing with Obama looking peeved.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  97. It is rank incompetence for Mitt not to have hit Obama on the failure to provide proper security in Benghazi.

    It is incompetence not to hit him hard on sending out Rice to pass along a discredited narrative.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  98. Is this rigged? Gads, Mitt is so much better than this….hell, pretend its a biz deal

    Angelo (055eea)

  99. Obama will only back countries which support Israel? WTF? Democrat party had to be arm twisted into supporting Israel.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  100. Maybe Romney could have used a drink of whiskey.

    nk (875f57)

  101. Who the **** advised Romney on how to approach this debate?

    Alan (098693)

  102. No fast and furious for you! Hahahahahahaha

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  103. Obama says he’s done all these things on Syria. Must know who helping if do more. Syrians must help themselves.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  104. I give up. If this is how this debate is going to go, I don’t know that I can deal with listening to it.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  105. Obama’s “make sure” tic may be the drinking game catalyst tonight. Debbie Wasserman likes to use “make sure” too. Must be a Dem thing.

    elissa (3ce65a)

  106. Who the **** advised Romney on how to approach this debate?

    His stupid advisers. The same people who didn’t warn him what Obama had said in the Rose Garden about Benghazi.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  107. When Romney knows something, he can talk semi-well.

    Right course is identifying resposible parties, org therm and give arms.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  108. Responsible parties in the MidEast? Romney is on drugs.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  109. I think Romney feels like he is ahead in the race as a whole, and is hoping for a draw. He wants to coast to victory.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  110. Mitt, do you plan at any time to criticize anything Obama has said or done?

    Alan (098693)

  111. Is there anyone on the planet who thinks what comes after Assad will be anything other than MB? We have a GOP nominee he is getting more “Kumbaya” than his liberal opponent.

    Assad is a butcher. But it’s not our problem and we have lived with the Assad tyranny for over half a century.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  112. Syria as a friend? I do not believe what I am seeing/hearing. I truly do not.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  113. ooo Mitt is getting some legs

    Angelo (055eea)

  114. I think Romney feels like he is ahead in the race as a whole, and is hoping for a draw. He wants to coast to victory.

    If that’s true, then how many angels can dance on his head?

    Alan (098693)

  115. Can we sub in Newt?

    Patterico (8b3905)

  116. Ah, Romney criticized Obama. Good. But it would be a lot more effective if he did it more than once every ninetieth answer.

    Alan (098693)

  117. Mitt must be playing it safe for the undecideds…trying walk the wire and not commit too much… I guess.

    Dana (292dcf)

  118. Obama gets to go back to Libya. Mitt will not be allowed.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  119. Patterico, I don’t think it’s going a badly as you do. I’ll “make sure” to watch more carefully.

    elissa (3ce65a)

  120. U.S. did not organize Libyan coalition, we were embarrassed into following.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  121. Newt would point out Hillary’s quote about Assad being seen as a reformer.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  122. Pitiful. Romney should have talked to a Greek restaurant owner. The facade beats the kitchen.

    nk (875f57)

  123. Romney’s chief advisors are Dan Señor and John Bolton. Both want to go to war with everybody.

    Please crack him about “standing with the Libyans”. The guys who murdered our ambassador?

    Bugg (642d2d)

  124. Damnit, Mitt. Go to a new answer.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  125. Mitt is trying to seem like a nice guy who would never go to war. Period, end of story.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  126. He does not mistrust Saudis Qataris and Turkey.

    Although he did give prioroty to Israel.

    He’s afraid of – he’s watched Pes turn to UN, later Russia. We should be playing leadership role.

    Obama claims he has.

    Making sure those we help are right people.

    Goes back to Libya. Says Romney said replacing Quaddafi was mission creep. Mohammar Quaddafi had more Am blood on hs-is hand than any individual other than Osama bin Laden..
    Must be steady like iin Syria like in Libya,.

    Romney doesn’t want military involved. Wants new gov’t and have them get arms. Won’t be necessary.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  127. what a bunch a weak-kneed pansies… 1 & 1/2 hours, folks. Chillax.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  128. If that’s true, then how many angels can dance on his head?

    Good one, Alan.

    Felipe (3243af)

  129. Mitt must be playing it safe for the undecideds…trying walk the wire and not commit too much… I guess.

    He will lose this way.

    Obama is making it sound like Romney doesn’t even disagree with him on anything.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  130. bama claims Romney does not have diff ideas (than his)

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  131. So Obama agrees with Romney. That all went nowhere.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  132. Rodney King took over Romney’s being.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  133. The only thing that may bail out Romney is Obama is not smart enough to recognize the hash Romney is making nor get out of the way.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  134. Mitt needs a stiff drink

    Angelo (055eea)

  135. Q. about what bama said about Mubarek.

    Obama: He wanted to be like JFK.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  136. Ratio of Obama-on-Romney criticism to Romney-on-Obama criticism: incalculably high.

    Oh, Governor… what do you think you know that Obama doesn’t know, in terms of strategy for winning this?

    Alan (098693)

  137. Obama has no regrets Muslim Brotherhood replaced Mubarak? Is he high?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  138. Well, now Obama is just lying about Israel. Not that it matters.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  139. Good one, Alan.

    Can’t take credit for it. I stole it from Dilbert.

    Alan (098693)

  140. It’s like Obama has an IQ of 100 and Romney has an IQ of 90.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  141. Hugh Hewitt must be smoking crack. He is loving Mitt’s performance.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  142. Obama is making it sound like Romney doesn’t even disagree with him on anything.

    I don’t know if he’ll lose doing this – he may grab a few who lean more toward him but wanted to hear his FP views. If they’re the same, why not go with him then?

    Dana (292dcf)

  143. Obama has no regrets Muslim Brotherhood replaced Mubarak? Is he high?

    I bet you anything Romney doesn’t mention that. So maybe they’re both high.

    Alan (098693)

  144. What a bunch of gobbledygook.

    Felipe (3243af)

  145. Gawd…obama rattling on about egyptian youth and education etc…just like our kids

    Angelo (055eea)

  146. Those ‘gyptians gotta “make sure” they take responsibility. (Obama’s driving me nuts and he’s starting to get shrill.) Is he getting way more time than Mitt?

    elissa (3ce65a)

  147. So now we’re debating domestic policy.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  148. “tran•sparent”

    Icy (e24ec9)

  149. Mitt lost the debate already

    EPWJ (4380b4)

  150. the stuff coming from the Prez. not you, Alan

    Felipe (3243af)

  151. WTF?

    Free pass on ousting Mubarek?

    Is this guy really presidential timber? Not tonight, he isn’t.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  152. Hugh Hewitt is retarded. He supported the Harriet Miers nomination, even after the Washington Post revealed on 10/26/2005 that she was a liberal.

    Alan (098693)

  153. Romney is following the playbook set out in this Hot Air post.

    It’s the Jonah Goldberg just-say-you-agree and don’t upset the undecideds thing.

    Maybe it’s playing with them. I don’t know. To me, it sucks.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  154. For America to be successful in Middle East we need to change here? What does that mean? We need to dress women in bags? Sever ties with Israel? Impose blasphemy laws?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  155. Romney would not have stucvk with Mubarak. Wish had abetter vision. Wish worked more aggressively to make tranistion. Felt the same as the President did about freedom.

    Idea of crushing

    ….now goes into general thoughts.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  156. Mitt is an airhead

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  157. Would that be the same Egyptians ushering in Sharia Law and allowing women to be sexually molested on the streets everyday? That Egypt?

    Dana (292dcf)

  158. Mitttttt! Snap out of it.

    Felipe (3243af)

  159. Romney isn’t saying much that’s specific. That’s not going to look good.

    Alan (098693)

  160. national debt???

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  161. “kumbaya my friends”….bring back Goldwater

    Angelo (055eea)

  162. God, they’re both just babbling. Make it stop.

    Dana (292dcf)

  163. BHO with aggressive posture and Mitt blinks his eyes like a girl flirting. BHO winning optics, too. Unreal/.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  164. The less Romney does to attack Obama, the less reason the undecideds are given to dump this president.

    Alan (098693)

  165. Lord. Mushy America’s role in the world. Mush city.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  166. Obama’s just as bad they are both trying to say hey – we wont fight – gezus

    EPWJ (4380b4)

  167. Anyone else notice that the old guy cuts off Romney whenever he gets on a roll?

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  168. Romney bangs on America’s influence in world declining under Obama – True!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  169. “It’s very hard to project leadership around the world when we’re not doing it ourselves.”

    Mitt, are you sleeping????!! Hit him back on this!

    Dana (292dcf)

  170. God, they’re both just babbling. Make it stop.

    I wish I could call a time out and slap the guy.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  171. Right now Romney sounds like Woodrow Wilson. I’ll still vote for him, but… damn.

    Alan (098693)

  172. remember kids the principle is your ple

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  173. It’s Slaughterhouse five tonight.

    Felipe (3243af)

  174. Obama looks like he ate a dog.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  175. Tension between Israel and U.S. — CRITICISM!!

    OH MY GOD HE SAID SOMETHING OBAMA DID WRONG!!!!

    Patterico (8b3905)

  176. Romney, echoing Obama on all points. 🙂

    The Emperor (5647ed)

  177. There aren’t any gaffes or gotcha clips or pieces of the debate to use in anti-Mitt ads that I’ve seen. I think that’s the goal and a good strategy. Chill out, people.

    elissa (3ce65a)

  178. Mitt is sounding like Ozzie Nelson!

    Angelo (055eea)

  179. Voting for peace-like the Palestinians voting for Hamas or Egyptians voting for the MB?

    Romney is getting better relating it to our economy. But there is waste in the Pentagon. And pretending otherwise is foolish and fiscally silly.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  180. Mitt is sounding like Ozzie Nelson!

    LoL.

    Dana (292dcf)

  181. Alliances that have been neglected — LIKE ISRAEL.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  182. yeah, we have been neglecting our alliance with Chavez….

    Felipe (3243af)

  183. Unprecedented cooperation with Israel?!

    Bull. $^&%.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  184. Please, sir, I want some more–no, MUCH more–criticism of Obama. And talk about the dishonest statements coming out of the administration, so that this way we’ll have specifics instead of generalities.

    Alan (098693)

  185. “America is stronger now than when I came into office” said President Bizarro.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  186. Obama is cutting things in half again…

    Felipe (3243af)

  187. I bet Romney won’t mention which world leaders, current or former, endorsed Obama.

    Alan (098693)

  188. like the truth

    Felipe (3243af)

  189. If we could just tax the rich more, everything would be OK.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  190. There aren’t any gaffes or gotcha clips or pieces of the debate to use in anti-Mitt ads that I’ve seen. I think that’s the goal and a good strategy. Chill out, people.

    It’s a weak strategy.

    Obama is attacking him. Romney is not attacking Obama.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  191. BHO is even baiting Romney!!! I am sooooo pissed that Romney refuses to fight.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  192. Ending Iraq war allowed us to refocus? Is that the same as all of Obama’s pivots to job creation that never did anything? Obama basically admits he can’t do more than one thing at a time.

    What alliances are stronger?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  193. Obama–we gotta “make sure” we got the best education system in the world and clean energy! O’s voice is like fingernails on blackboard to my ears, tonight.

    elissa (3ce65a)

  194. He wants this to be an economic debate.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  195. Finally money talk

    Angelo (055eea)

  196. “When the students took to the street [Iran]… for the president to be silent was an enormous mistake.”

    yes

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  197. Absent an unreal switch in tone, BHO wins tonight. Yoooge.

    Ohio back in play. PA lost. Goodbye Wisconsin.

    Damn fools advising Romney.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  198. Well, the other nations of he world must LOVE hearing that the United States is “the ONE indispensable nation”.

    Icy (e24ec9)

  199. It looks like Romney is playing rope-a-dope. Romney’s talking specifics and Obama is attacking.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  200. Just tuned in. I thought this debate was about foreign policy. Anything but right now.

    kathyP (a33e06)

  201. The UH man is back!

    Bugg (642d2d)

  202. no hits on Romney and Romney’s coming across as a sitting president.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  203. God! Obama wants to hire more teachers

    Angelo (055eea)

  204. Just tuned in. I thought this debate was about foreign policy. Anything but right now.

    It’s good for Romney to make a point about the economy being relevant to military strength.

    But yeah, this is all a little bizarre.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  205. Nonsense abut he economy, both by Obama (nonsensical criticism of Romney) and empty promises by Romney.

    Romney had also called for strong defense because we don’t know what will happen, as in 2001.

    Obama: Claims claims sizes make a difference. No it doesn’t.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  206. Let it be about economics. Mitt’s confident there.

    Dana (292dcf)

  207. Obamacare kills small businesses Mr. President. If you believe in education Mr. President, why don’t you support school choice?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  208. No hits on Romney?

    BHO expressly hit Romney on Russian remark. Now he is getting punched with Massachusetts shortfalls.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  209. Thank you Bob. Back to FP

    Felipe (3243af)

  210. no hits on Romney and Romney’s coming across as a sitting president.

    Is that how it’s playing with you? I hope it’s how it’s playing with the public.

    After all, we are not representative of the electorate. I always try to remember that.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  211. OMG–he just said we know education policy is going to make a difference… HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…

    I can’t think of any candidate for national office who has ever contributed anything meaningful with big changes in education policy.

    Alan (098693)

  212. Does Romney know what’s wrong, chapter and verse with the things Obama is saying?

    I don’t think he can stop him. (I mean intellectually)

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  213. Now Big Zer0’s losing his cool…

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  214. Col

    Romney jut lost the presidency – he was in love with the game and to him – it was only a game

    EPWJ (4380b4)

  215. Debate on Mssachusetts scholarship.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  216. Romney really should start attacking Obama now since Obama is acting as if Romney is the incumbent.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  217. Perhaps Romney has listened to Kristol: Just be Presidential. Be the adult. You did the damage in the first debate, let the trend continue and let the audience see you as someone who can be President.

    PC14 (87cbf8)

  218. Let Obama lose his cool.. his storied cool… yes!

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  219. Does Romney know what’s wrong, chapter and verse with the things Obama is saying?

    No. He’s not prepared for this debate.

    Alan (098693)

  220. Look how SMUG Obama looks.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  221. I disagree that Romney has wasted tonight’s debate. By agreeing with Obama’s policies but not his execution, he’s reassuring Americans that he will be as tough (or tougher) as Obama has been, but he won’t be that cowboy Bush.

    Romney knows that whatever he says now, future events can change everything. Therefore, the important thing is to convey that he won’t do anything radical the way Bush did. This is all about Romney telling Americans that he is no Bush.

    And everytime Obama says he’s “glad” that Romney agrees with him, he’s not.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  222. President Peevish

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  223. Okay, new rule: NEVER refer people to your website to answer a question for you. It makes you look like you don’t know what you’re talking about, because everyone knows that very few people will bother looking at the website.

    Alan (098693)

  224. 5 Trillion again. This thing is going backwards.

    Felipe (3243af)

  225. “You should’ve answered the first question.”

    Score, I’m afraid.

    Alan (098693)

  226. but what huh… uh

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  227. How do you know what China spends on its military?

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  228. We’re toast!

    BillC (89e68e)

  229. In other words, the point of this debate for Romney is to reassure Americans he won’t change Obama’s foreign policies, he will simply execute them better.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  230. president peevish…

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  231. Smugley Peevish…

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  232. In the eyes of the truly moronic, aka the undecided, everything BHO says sounds right. Romney is the teacher they all hated as they learned nothing in school.

    This is McCain redux.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  233. Obama is looking presidential tonight. Romney: the mask is coming off.

    The Emperor (3db71b)

  234. I disagree that Romney has wasted tonight’s debate. By agreeing with Obama’s policies but not his execution, he’s reassuring Americans that he will be as tough (or tougher) as Obama has been, but he won’t be that cowboy Bush.

    Romney knows that whatever he says now, future events can change everything. Therefore, the important thing is to convey that he won’t do anything radical the way Bush did. This is all about Romney telling Americans that he is no Bush.

    And everytime Obama says he’s “glad” that Romney agrees with him, he’s not.

    I hope you’re right, and you may be. I recognize that there is a difference between how this might be coming across to political junkies and how it comes across to mushy undecided voters.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  235. Romney, if you don’t come back with specifics to respond to what Obama said about you and deficit spending… you’re asking the undecideds to vote for him.

    Alan (098693)

  236. What budget is Obama talking about?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  237. I think that’s what the undecideds want to see, DRJ, that Romney is not Bush. He’s playing it safe in a sense but the people he needs to reach and bring over are the undecideds – not us who are already going to vote for him, no matter how badly he does tonight.

    Dana (292dcf)

  238. again… pointing out 0bama’s failure to lead.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  239. You wouldn’t know Presidential if it crawled up your ass

    Angelo (055eea)

  240. I just fundamentally don’t know why Romney can’t actually CRITICIZE something Obama has done.

    It’s not like there aren’t ample targets.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  241. I swear, if Obama says “not paying for his tax cuts” ONE more time . . .

    Icy (e24ec9)

  242. Lovey idiot, unlike Obama, there is no mask on Romney to come off.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  243. That was what my question in the other debate post was about today: does he get lost in the weeds for the sake of we who want him to call out every lie and obfuscation on Benghazi, F&F, etc., or does he focus on those undecideds and tailor make it for them?

    Dana (292dcf)

  244. I think it’s because he’s not prepared. Specifics are harder to memorize than generalities.

    Alan (098693)

  245. look at that smug/contemptous face on 0bama… do you really think that sits well with most Americans?

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  246. ooooo…bamster being smugly arrogant

    Angelo (055eea)

  247. Obama is being totally condescending. There are these things called submarines . . .

    Patterico (8b3905)

  248. Submarines are not ships!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  249. Q about how Romney would cut the budget so money will left for military.

    Back to $5 trillon, math not working. Military not asking for. Martha Radditz corrected Biden on that

    Obama: How big our military budget is. Worked mil enough to be sure we are safe

    WSJ said deduction cap was actually a good idea in an editorial.

    Obama: Cybersecurity and space – driven not by politics

    Romney balanced budgets. Business, Olympics, Mass.

    Romney: NAVY is smaller than any time since 1917..

    Air Force smallest ever.

    Changed FDR strategy of ability to fight two wars at same time.

    Obama: Not just fewer ships since 1916. Less horses too. (we may not need them)

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  250. if you do, think again.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  251. BHO scores a knockdown with the undecideds. Buggy whips! Lord, I do not want to stroke out. PLEASE hep Mitt now!

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  252. So we don’t need ships anymore? That’s news to me. What do we use now? Sharks with fricking laser beams?

    Alan (098693)

  253. “We’ve visited the website”

    Felipe (3243af)

  254. The concern troll is so in love with choom winning and idea that a gop congress can stymie him?
    Ugh, I live four miles away from this debate and am so glad I’m not in attendance. Don’t see what is wrong with bringing up fact that Obama knew our people were in trouble for seven hours with jets 40 minutes away and did nothing. I was never going to vote for Obama but wtf is Romley’s problem here?

    Calypso Louis Farrakhan (e799d8)

  255. Patterico, I think he doesn’t want to play politics with current lives. The problem is that his opponent has been doing so, and needs to be called out on it. I think R. knows there are some hidden “gotchas” and his own staff found them out first. O is not all that smart; R is.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  256. Patronizing, demeaning . . .

    Icy (e24ec9)

  257. Romney never defended his tax plan, even briefly.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  258. Romney jut lost the presidency – he was in love with the game and to him – it was only a game

    Comment by EPWJ — 10/22/2012 @ 6:38 pm

    I’m not worried, EPWJ, you’ve been wrong more than once or twice here before.

    Dana (292dcf)

  259. Hit him on snubbing Bibi.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  260. Israel! Bama sez he’ll stand with Israel…..but

    Angelo (055eea)

  261. DRAW A CONTRAST.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  262. there’s the right eye tic…

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  263. Romney is looking beaten.

    The Emperor (9ae02a)

  264. Based on what I’m reading here on this thread, I think many women might be viewing this debate much more positively for Romney than some men are. The candidates did the WWF shouting and interrupting and evil eye thang last week. When I listen to this (as opposed to watching it) I just want to slap the president for his frequent high pitched screeching. Mitt sounds calm and in control and authoritative and presidential. Barry sounds defensive.

    elissa (3ce65a)

  265. I think the consensus will be that Obama just wanted it more. Wanted to win, that is.

    Alan (098693)

  266. I now count the second time Romney has predicted he’s going to win. I know you have to project confidence, but this isn’t the way to do it. Stop doing it, PLEEZE.

    Alan (098693)

  267. First, I want to agree with BHO…. ^&*&^%$&*^^&*&*

    NO mention of Israel?????? We talk about Iran??????

    This response is a perfect microcosm of why Mitt loses.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  268. Why would Romney want to criticize Obama — because it would be satisfying or because it would change minds? It would obviously be satisfying for us but how would it change the minds of someone like Ann Althouse or others who are actually watching this debate? Because the low information voters aren’t watching.

    The people who are watching want to know if Romney is going to get us in another war, like Bush did. By acting this way regarding the rest of the Middle East, Romney will have credibility when they talk about Iran and he claims he doesn’t want to start a ground war.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  269. This debate will be a loss for Romney “on points” but in the big picture this is a draw… will not do enough to alter the electoral picture for O. He’s too smug/condescending on screen and too weak in this area to be saved from a 90 minute chat.

    Joseph D (beda48)

  270. Finally a fire in the belly

    Angelo (055eea)

  271. mitt is one of those world court weirdos?

    nobody tells me anything

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  272. Obama’s “we have these things called aircraft carriers” was condescending, but it had to be or else it wouldn’t have been an effective smackdown of Romney’s inexperience. I wonder how much, if at all, it will backfire.

    Kman (af635f)

  273. DRJ as always makes a good point.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  274. I love and respect you, DRJ. A lot.

    But, the undecideds do not understand the peril of four more years. So, they will not look for a change. They now have the excuse to vote more statism and appeasement.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  275. Patterico,

    Why does Romney need to contrast his policies with Obama’s policies? Hasn’t Obama basically done all the things conservatives wanted (and folks like Glenn Greenwald hate)? Romney needs to make the case that he will do the same things better (and I think he has), especially when it comes to the Middle East. Americans don’t want another war in the Middle East.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  276. Obama winning tonight takes the argument of a Romney presidency to the gutters.

    The Emperor (09061e)

  277. Ed from SFV @ 6:51,

    Not if they’re already leaning toward Mitt.

    Dana (292dcf)

  278. The worst thing about this debate is that it makes Obama look more informed than Romney. That’s going to sway the undecideds in Obama’s favor.

    Alan (098693)

  279. Why would Romney want to criticize Obama — because it would be satisfying or because it would change minds? It would obviously be satisfying for us but how would it change the minds of someone like Ann Althouse or others who are actually watching this debate? Because the low information voters aren’t watching.

    The people who are watching want to know if Romney is going to get us in another war, like Bush did. By acting this way regarding the rest of the Middle East, Romney will have credibility when they talk about Iran and he claims he doesn’t want to start a ground war.

    I am, admittedly, probably undervaluing the need for Romney to appear non-bellicose.

    But isn’t there a way for Romney to hit Obama without looking bellicose?

    Finally, he’s doing it now by talking about the apology tour, cozying up to Chavez, etc.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  280. Ed from SFV,

    Romney is winning on the economy and that’s what this election is about. He’s reassuring voters that he won’t ruin the economy with another war.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  281. Here we go. The president silent.

    Felipe (3243af)

  282. Finally. Name dropping the tyrants. Appeasers. Finally.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  283. NICE! He brought up the apology tour!

    More, dammit, MORE!!!!

    Alan (098693)

  284. TALK ABOUT THE BOWING!!!!!

    Alan (098693)

  285. Romney with a good answer on Obama “sitting down with the world’s worst actors.”

    Obama looks weak when he looks to Scheiffer for “help.”

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  286. “The biggest whopper”?

    Felipe (3243af)

  287. If Romney does not fire back RIGHT NOW to BHO’s insistence that he just told untruths, there is little hope.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  288. I think some of you males want to see a cage match.

    Mitt is a boy scout. But he is steady and calm. Not the bully he was accused of in the last two. It might help him.

    Dana (292dcf)

  289. Lying President Smugley Peevish…

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  290. Why does Romney need to contrast his policies with Obama’s policies? Hasn’t Obama basically done all the things conservatives wanted (and folks like Glenn Greenwald hate)? Romney needs to make the case that he will do the same things better (and I think he has), especially when it comes to the Middle East. Americans don’t want another war in the Middle East.

    Obama has done a lot of continuing Bush’s policies. But right now Obama is making himself seem like he is the only knowledgeable and credible guy in the room, and it just bothers me to see Romney get away with it to the extent he is.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  291. Cut in, Mitt. Cut in and respond.

    Alan (098693)

  292. 4 years closer to a nuclear Iran… yes

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  293. You skipped Irael!!!!

    Felipe (3243af)

  294. So, Obama is strongly saying everything is great today and we can have four more years of greatness.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  295. and you skipped Israel…

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  296. Thanks be to God, he is firing back!

    Boom! Bang! Crash! Zow!

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  297. Boom.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  298. Great comeback by Mitt: “we’re four years closer to a nuclear bomb.”

    Now he’s laying it on.

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  299. Grilling him on disloyalty to Israel!

    Angelo (055eea)

  300. Romney:

    “obama has skipped israel during his apology tour in the middle east”

    joe (93323e)

  301. Bibi snubber.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  302. No, you attended fundraisers when our Amb. was murdered. Say it Mitt!

    Felipe (3243af)

  303. Keep firing!!!!! Fundraisers? lmfao
    Missiles raining down???? How about this week, a**hole?

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  304. This is what I wanted to see. Keep it up, Mitt.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  305. Again with nhis kids

    Felipe (3243af)

  306. Patterico:

    But isn’t there a way for Romney to hit Obama without looking bellicose?

    Yes, but not by disagreeing with his policies. Romney should disagree with Obama’s execution of his policies, and Romney did that by hitting Obama on his apology tour and willingness to stand with tyrants.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  307. Bon Scheffer Q about red lines.

    Israel and Iran – will defend Israel

    Iran will not a nuclear weapon as long as he is president.

    Sanctionss put Iran economy into shambles.

    Iran state sponser of terrorism and wants to wipe out Israel

    Iran choice

    Either they end it OR:face a united world. Nothing off table. Romney would be premature in use of force.

    Romney trying to coollect histhoughts. Wante crippling sanctions 5 years ago – would tighten them.

    Diplomatic isolation Indict Ahmadinijad fr=orgenocide promotion.

    Diplmats should be treated like apartheid South Afrc.

    Military last resort.

    Q. talks report. Obama: not true, but our goal is to get Iran recognize it needs to give up its nuclear program. Would welcome into community of nations (if they stop nuclear but not terrorism??)

    Obama: Sometimes Romney sounds like he’d do same thing but say them louder.

    Needed Russia and China to join in sanctions. There is a deal to be had. we no let up pressue till clear evidence.

    Clock is ticking. Not let Iran perpetually engage in neg lead nowhere. Have good int from Israel. “all options”

    Romney: Adm not as strong as needed to be. Obama wanted to meet world’s worst actors. Unusual hnor. Apoloy tour. Ignored dissidents in Iran And noticed saying create daylight between ourselves and Israek.

    Now 10,000 centrifuges. Way to make sure Iran understands things tighten sanctions. If we do that won’t need military.

    Obama: nothing true. Biggest whopper, there was no apology tour.

    Romney had investment in Chinese oil company that was doing business with Iranian oil sector.

    Obama: Iran weakest point than in many years

    Romney:4 years closer to a nuclear Iran we shpould not hav e wasted these 4 years

    Reason he called apology tour. Skipped Israel. In nations said America had been dismissive. Had dictated. Am has not dcictated to other nations, Freed nations from dictators.

    Obama: If took trips. Went to Israel as a candidate and did not take donors. went to Yad Vashem to know nature of evil and Sderot.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  308. Obama still has not been to Israel as President.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  309. Decent response by Romney. Could’ve been better, but it was better than I expected… which is probably just another way of saying that Romney hasn’t been good for the rest of the debate.

    Alan (098693)

  310. Jeez I had no idea the Bamster was so omnipotent

    Angelo (055eea)

  311. Polls show again and again that nobody cares about foreign policy, immigration, social issues or global warming. What they care about are jobs, the economy, deficits and entitlements. Romney is winning there hands down, and he just has to avoid screwing it up by threatening a major war.

    Besides, Obama is hanging himself. Why confuse things?

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  312. food stamp is indignant like yeats’s desert birds but he’s pompous too

    he might end up saving romney from himself

    maybe

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  313. Too busy to see Netanyahu.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  314. Muslim Brotherhood is on the right side of history and Obama stands with them.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  315. Way to stone BS! Good job, Mitt.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  316. Jeez I had no idea the Bamster was so omnipotent

    Perhaps this video will explain.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  317. Obama is afraid to be seen as too cloe to Israel Thinks gets better relationship with Arabs. Not true.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  318. Yes, but not by disagreeing with his policies. Romney should disagree with Obama’s execution of his policies, and Romney did that by hitting Obama on his apology tour and willingness to stand with tyrants.

    That’s fine. I just want to see him show why Obama is not a good foreign policy president.

    He’s starting to show some spine.

    Boom! Tensions with Israel!

    Patterico (8b3905)

  319. Mitt, talk about Obama’s unilateral disarmament.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  320. Boom….nailed him

    Angelo (055eea)

  321. Obama claims Romney has been all over the map.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  322. IMO, Romney just landed a couple of good body blows.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  323. ___________________________________________

    This is all about Romney telling Americans that he is no Bush.

    I’m one conservative who admittedly has more of a isolationist feeling now than in the past. I also acknowledge that a pre-Pearl-Harbor approach to international affairs can spell disaster. But, at the same time, I sense that following a rule-Britannnia formula is way too costly for this nation — more now than ever before — and probably not going to be anymore successful than an approach where we’re less interventionist.

    If Romney at least doesn’t bow like a servant in front of foreign leaders, and doesn’t transpose the good and bad players in the Middle East, he’ll automatically be better than President “Goddamn America.”

    Mark (0f9f3c)

  324. Romney is running to one-liners for help. “America does not dictate to the world, America liberates the world!” It fell flat.

    The Emperor (9ae02a)

  325. I’m finding the mismatch on how commenters here are interpreting the respective debate performances much more interesting than the debate itself. It points the complexity and difficulty campaigns face and the candidates have in trying to decide on the right strategy and tone, doesn’t it? I think Mitt’s mostly being himself and that looks fine to me.

    elissa (3ce65a)

  326. Football spiked.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  327. FLIP FLOPPING SQUIRRELS

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  328. “I would take that shot”. O the sniper.

    Felipe (3243af)

  329. #317

    That’s funny!

    Angelo (055eea)

  330. Thank God again that BHO is horrid without TOTUS.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  331. 0bama and his little anecdotal stories… almost brings a tear to teh eye…

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  332. I don’t know where Obama is going now with the 9-11 story.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  333. Let’s hope Romney came prepared to answer the heaven-and-Earth statement.

    Alan (098693)

  334. OBAMA IS THE TOUGH.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  335. #333 He cares

    Angelo (055eea)

  336. Romney had wanted to ask Pakistan for permission if so would not have happened.

    Obama: how imp to get bon Laden, Even his VP was not in favor so much,

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  337. Obama opens up flip flopping – like not closing Gitmo, indefinite detention, kill lists, cowboy diplomacy, etc., etc.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  338. afghanistan!

    yawn

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  339. Q about bomberrs Romney had said wouldn’ be lke this.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  340. Oh, never mind. Moot point.

    Doomed. We’re doomed, doomed, doomed.

    Alan (098693)

  341. I oppose a deadline, but 2014 is the deadline.

    He’ll eat crap on this one.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  342. Mitt, just answer the question. Not even undecided voters are stupid enough to see that you’re not answering the question. And certainly Obama will point out that you’re not answering it. So just answer it.

    Brush your hands? Did I hear him right?

    Alan (098693)

  343. You are right, Pat.

    Felipe (3243af)

  344. Mitt, if you’re not going to answer this question, then don’t waste your time; just use your time to respond to the heaven-and-Earth comment.

    Alan (098693)

  345. “We decimated” twice tonight.

    Felipe (3243af)

  346. NOBODY is answering the question. Because they don’t want to. Because people are war-weary and nobody wants to hear a glimmer of the idea we might stay.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  347. When Obama came to office we were not still bogged down in Iraq. Exit plan was already in place. Obama had nothing to do except negotiate status of forces agreement. He screwed it up.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  348. O invokes WPA

    Angelo (055eea)

  349. Here’s some of 0bama’s 9/11 love… http://t.co/myC7tBWI

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  350. So now the President is pretending that Afghanistan is successful.

    I do see the strategy now. If Obama is going to give up the veneer of the presidency, then Romney is happy to take it.

    Partisans will see this as an Obama win, but I’m not so sure at this point.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  351. We’re screwed. We’re most of the way through the debate by now, and Obama has been performing better than Romney throughout. It’s too late to turn this around, even if Romney were capable of it.

    Alan (098693)

  352. Romney’s last 15 minutes have been significantly better than his first 50 minutes.

    Kman (af635f)

  353. all these lunches and visits gotta be cutting into his golf time!

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  354. Romney’s last 15 minutes have been significantly better than his first 50 minutes.

    For once, I agree with you.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  355. nursing certification changes are so key

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  356. We can’t divorce someone with nukes even if they coddle terrorists.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  357. Pockeestan!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  358. It’s too late to turn this around, even if Romney were capable of it.

    Comment by Alan

    LOL… who are you, again?

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  359. Alan and Bugg are very concerned. Pass the smelling salts.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  360. Alan, are you concerned?

    elissa (3ce65a)

  361. The last 15 minutes have been better. It seems to me that this debate was boring enough that it won’t change much. But it certainly doesn’t put O away. That could have been done tonight.

    Joseph D (beda48)

  362. OK, the old guy pitches a softball to Romney on Pakistan and he swishes it.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  363. mitt isn’t addressing the nursing certification issue

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  364. Romney seems tired and beaten, saying nothing new but echoing the president.

    The Emperor (3db71b)

  365. I can’t bear to watch anymore.

    nk (875f57)

  366. I find myself being persuaded by Elissa and DRJ. Mitt is not the train wreck tonight that we men think. I think I’ll chill.

    Felipe (3243af)

  367. Alan and Bugg are very concerned. Pass the smelling salts.

    I’m happier with how Mitt is doing.

    Is Al Qaeda on the run? NO!

    Patterico (8b3905)

  368. Finally, Romney says look at the record.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  369. What voters cared about in mid-October (GWU/Battleground Poll):

    Most important issues:
    Pocketbook issues: 69%
    SS/Medicare: 10%
    National Security: 8%
    Education: 7%
    Other: 7%

    This should explain why Mitt isn’t rocking the boat too hard. Hammer him where it hurts and play nicey-nice where it doesn’t matter.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  370. Nice segue to hitting BHO on overall strategy in the drone question.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  371. POCKEESTAHN!

    Patterico (8b3905)

  372. Romney is more certain the Afghan deadline is not a problem than Obama.

    Romney said we can’t drop Pakistan – have 100 atomic bombs. Must condition aid.

    Obama: change nursing certication. Rebuild this nation

    Bob schffer: Americans continue ti die at hands of groups to

    Romney; Not time to divorce Pakistan They have 100 nuclear weapons. Terrorist groups there. Not a civilian leadership calling the shots. ISI most poweful then military/

    If it becomes a failed state: are nuclear weapons there, terrorists,

    tech an ally not acting like one.

    We can’t just walk away from Pakistan. But tie aid.

    ZDrones: Any all means. support that entirely.

    We need far more effective strategy to move world away from terror and Islamic extremism.

    Does he have any idea how>?

    He ealier talked about economic development. No, won’t work. To extendt it does, terrorists will bomb.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  373. Can’t Romney at least talk about Obama’s hypocrisy? Like by pointing out that if Obama had had his way, we’d never have gotten bin Laden, because Obama opposed the enhanced interrogation techniques that led to finding him? Has Romney just forgotten everything that’s wrong with Obama?

    Alan (098693)

  374. I think the President has been echoing the challenger. YMMV.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  375. I find myself being persuaded by Elissa and DRJ. Mitt is not the train wreck tonight that we men think. I think I’ll chill.

    Me too, but also because he finally hit back some.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  376. There’s so much to throw at Obama and Romney is using almost none of it.

    Alan (098693)

  377. What kind of reforms has Obama negotiated with Islamic governments regarding women? Details?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  378. BO…”We’re gonna make sure they treat their women with respect”…..that’s some strong choom there

    Angelo (055eea)

  379. OHH! “This nation – ME! Uh, my administration.”

    The mask slipped!

    Felipe (3243af)

  380. China.

    Is China giving campaign $$$ to Obama?

    Patterico (8b3905)

  381. Mitt shoulllllld crush this segment on China.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  382. President agreeing with Romney again while saying Al-Queada is weaker. Really?

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  383. Obama: Al Qaeda much weaker than 4 years ago. (??)

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  384. OOH, OOH, the biggest threat is the economy. Please Romney please while the President prattles.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  385. greatest future threat is obama’s crack whore style spending i think

    but nobody asks me

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  386. We’re going to hear about how Romney agrees, but he would call China a currency manipulator, blah blah blah. Just watch.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  387. oooh tough on the chinese cheap tires

    Angelo (055eea)

  388. 14 minutes left.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  389. Is it just me, or do the captions on the screen tend to favor Obama?

    Alan (098693)

  390. China wants the world to be free and open?

    Patterico (8b3905)

  391. i am way more concerned about the spendings than i am about a nuclear iran

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  392. Oh, hell.

    Alan (098693)

  393. 0bama teh Panda Hugger

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  394. How can lovey even tell what is going on with his head all the way up O’s colon?

    Lots of elderly Jewish voters live around Lynn U. Wonder what their take is on the Israel-Iran problem. Do they believe O’s words or his actions. Talked to a Jewish RN here who was in love with Obama in ’08 and thinks it so wonderfully historical to have voted for him but thinks Romney is better at economics. Still, she’s never strayed from the dem plantation her forty voting years and is yet undecided. Does think Jews will vote for Romney though. It would be grand if Romney did take Florida in any case. I’m told Hispanics are starting to really move his way here.

    Calypso Louis Farrakhan (e799d8)

  395. CURRENCY MANIPULATION!!!!

    Patterico (8b3905)

  396. Gawd

    Angelo (055eea)

  397. I’m wathing on c-span.com. What are these screen captions? What do they say?

    Felipe (3243af)

  398. Happyfeet–I agree. Especially because the spending problem is something that we could actually solve without going to war.

    Alan (098693)

  399. We’re going to hear about how Romney agrees, but he would call China a currency manipulator, blah blah blah.

    Good call.

    Kman (af635f)

  400. I WILL LABEL THEM A CURRENCY MANIPULATOR!!

    Told you.

    As if the Fed hasn’t flooded the economy with bucks.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  401. on day one china stops buying our crap bonds

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  402. F you schieffer! U NEVER called out BHO for ANY answer. How DARE you go after Mitt!!!

    Candy Schieffer!!!!!!

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  403. The trade imbalance is WHY they have to manipulate their currency.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  404. It’s not governments that make businesses successful. (President sneers).

    Dana (292dcf)

  405. I’m watching on YouTube. There was, for example, an embarrassing Romney quotation from 2007, and recently there was a very positive quotation from Obama about how he wants more made-in-the-USA goods.

    Alan (098693)

  406. ____________________________________________

    I find myself being persuaded by Elissa and DRJ.

    I’d be worried if such forumers (ie, women in general, females of the right in particular) were unhappy right now with Romney. They are a crucial slice of the demographic that represents the swing vote, and I think all people — regardless of gender — are becoming increasingly weary of too much activism in foreign affairs. I still like rightists like John Bolton, but mainly for their being aggressive towards, say, the UN compared with their approach to the complicated chess pieces on the chess board of the Middle East. However, a philosophy that includes full respect for Israel — tactically and symbolically — still is an absolute to me.

    Mark (0f9f3c)

  407. Business arguments are over Obama’s head.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  408. Thanks for sharing, Alan…

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  409. A damn good response by Romney to the trade-war question.

    Alan (098693)

  410. Fire back, Mitt. U cannot let him get away with that.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  411. The only thing Romney didn’t say that I wish he had was in response to Obama’s claim that he would absolutely tell Iran it had to give up its nuclear weapons. I wish Romney had asked (rhetorically) whether Obama had privately told Ahmadinejad he would have more flexibility after the election.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  412. Well, everybody’s right tonight.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  413. The only thing Romney didn’t say that I wish he had was in response to Obama’s claim that he would absolutely tell Iran it had to give up its nuclear weapons. I wish Romney had asked (rhetorically) whether Obama had privately told Ahmadinejad he would have more flexibility after the election.

    Ha!

    See, he doesn’t have that in him.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  414. Mention 7 out of 10 GM cars are made outside of the USA.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  415. #406

    That is sneaky, Alan.

    Felipe (3243af)

  416. Waaaah, he is attacking me.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  417. Mitt, bring up how badly GM is being run. Stop assuming that everyone already knows, because they don’t. Mention it, you idiot.

    Alan (098693)

  418. Now Obama is just LYING.

    Suggesting Romney said he would liquidate the auto industry.

    LIAR.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  419. CHECK THE RECORD indeed.

    Liar.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  420. FIGHT BACK, YOU IDIOT!!!!!! Stop just defending yourself and FIGHT BACK!!!!!

    Alan (098693)

  421. Pretty good job, Mitt.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  422. president interuptus can go to hell.

    mg (e0b08a)

  423. president peevish losing stature…

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  424. If Romney had used all the Obama gotchas (that I admit would be fun to see), then he wouldn’t seem Presidential. Americans expect the body blows on domestic matters but they don’t when it comes to foreign policy. Romney had to find a middle ground. I think he found it.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  425. As we get down to the wire, Obama is increasingly getting his Biden on. He’s headed south and he knows it.

    ropelight (45fc45)

  426. Obama’s aim here is not to win the FP argument, I think he is trying to take the economy argument away from Romney. I predict that after this night you will see more people trending towards Obama on the economy and job question. Romney is bleeding.

    The Emperor (3db71b)

  427. BHO still won the night. He got away with Libya and Israeli mendacity, betrayal, and treachery.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  428. Booosh!

    Angelo (055eea)

  429. This talking point about defense spending that the military is not asking for is complete unadulterated horsesh*t.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  430. “The American auto industry is vital to our national interest as an employer and as a hub for manufacturing. A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs. It would permit the companies to shed excess labor, pension and real estate costs. The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk.

    — Mitt Romney

    Obama is a huge LIAR.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  431. prissypants didn’t bring up keystone at all but at least we know he wants to give monies to research universities

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  432. Well the challenger made some points against President Romney tonight.

    Finally, Romney is pointing out the record.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  433. he’s one of them sneaky snakes, felipe. Guy shows up… who are you again, alan?

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  434. Obama set a trap for himself.

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  435. Of course, it would be completely different if Romney were behind. He would have had to attack Obama … just the way Obama attacked him tonight. If we didn’t know which candidate believes he is behind in the race, we do now.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  436. Mitt finishing strong. He wins the debate hands down.

    ropelight (45fc45)

  437. Let’s get the transcript of this debate on what Mitt said about guarantees, and Obama denying it.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  438. smug smirk, but the tics give him away…

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  439. Mitt Romney likes cars and teachers.

    Kman (af635f)

  440. And thank you Romney for pointing out that the federal government doesn’t hire teachers.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  441. Obama likes lying.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  442. Does “blame Bush” really work after four years?

    Really?

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  443. Obama can’t resist blaming Bush. BUSH! BUSH! BUSH!

    Damn Bush.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  444. Mitt needs to say:

    “We know you have a vision, Mr.Prez. What you don’t have is a plan.”

    Felipe (3243af)

  445. Who am I? What does that question even mean?

    Alan (098693)

  446. If you get down to the nuts and bolts of the debate, they spent the whole night agreeing with each other. What a waste.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  447. Romney did not want to come across as an evil, rich, mean extremist who called the president a liar. He wanted to stay positive as he had in the other debates and leave the negativity and BS talking points to Obama.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  448. They’re working on the transcript here.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  449. Romney missed so many opportunities here. I’ve never seen a candidate give so many hostages to fortune as I saw tonight.

    Alan (098693)

  450. lying liar will have trouble with his lies.

    mg (e0b08a)

  451. ___________________________________________

    Ha!

    See, he doesn’t have that in him.

    Sometimes I think people like Romney are a bit too analogous — in temperament and attitude — to the Ed Flanders character in “The Simpsons.”

    Then again, there are a lot of squishes out there in society who perceive anyone even a bit right of center as being similar to the cranky boss or the grouchy ol’ dad coming home at night, who’ll be the killjoy to us, the party-hearty kids.

    Mark (0f9f3c)

  452. Good closing by Romney.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  453. working across the aisle is how he invented romneycare

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  454. Mr Pres….feeding my kids this week is more important than college in 10 yrs

    Angelo (055eea)

  455. What a ra’Bolton development dis is:

    President Obama mops floor with $5,000 empty suit. Film at 11.

    Back to baseball.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  456. I’d like to see Mitt say he’ll do all he reasonably can to PREVENT people from doing us harm–as opposed to Obama’s view that he’ll go track down people AFTER they’ve done us harm.

    elissa (3ce65a)

  457. I’m OK with it.

    If DRJ is happy, I’m happy.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  458. If you want the next four years to be like the last four…

    Why couldn’t he say that?

    Alan (098693)

  459. Romney’s kid!

    Take a swing at Obama!

    Patterico (8b3905)

  460. conservatives need to find a new well to drink from.

    mg (e0b08a)

  461. Let’s see what Brit Hume says. I bet he’s happy enough.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  462. I’m good with it. The wife only dropped three f-bombs on Obama!

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  463. conservatives need to find a new well to drink from.

    This is not a forum to make conservatives happy, but that’s not the game right now.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  464. I agree, Elissa.

    Felipe (3243af)

  465. Obama got more time, AGAIN.

    Not a ton more this time.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  466. neither of them have a claim to “likability”

    cause they’re both remarkably obnoxious people

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  467. and why are you here and where are you going? home, I hope… alan.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  468. 464- i know, but…

    mg (e0b08a)

  469. ____________________________________

    If DRJ is happy, I’m happy.

    Same here.

    Mark (0f9f3c)

  470. Mitt was steady and solid as always. BO came to take his jabs, but Romney has the momentum and trajectory he needs. Both held serve.

    Joseph D (beda48)

  471. Now for the October surprise(s). BHO stopped the bleeding. Damn.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  472. What’s that? You want me to post comments more often? You got it!

    Alan (098693)

  473. “I’ll lead in an open and honest way.”

    That, right there, differentiates Romney from Big Lying Zer0.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  474. DRJ, elissa and Dana will keep is sane

    Angelo (055eea)

  475. us

    Angelo (055eea)

  476. Barack Obama is a two-faced blowhard and a lying fraud and he can’t hide his record of failure or conceal the ugly side of his prickly personality.

    So, Mr Obama, goodbye and please just go away and don’t let your shadow darken America’s future again. Four years ago it was all a mistake, that can happen when the fourth estate abrogates it’s primary responsibility, but it’s over now.

    ropelight (45fc45)

  477. One thing Obama did that shocked me-calling Afghanistan one of “2 reckless wars”. if he killed Bin laden as he never tires of telling us, why was that reckless? You could knock how it;s been run form the beginning, but it was justified.

    Romney was sharper at that end, and ultimately Romney wins or loses on the economy.And on that his close was very strong.

    Line of the night-“Attacking me is not an agenda”.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  478. is leebeeyuh a moot issue for the rest of the campaign?

    i think maybe so

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  479. BRIT!

    Patterico (8b3905)

  480. Brit:

    Smooth, fluid, well informed.

    Didn’t hurt him that there were no broad disagreements.

    Effectively used economy’s weakness.

    President looking for a default expression.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  481. Obama burdened by record.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  482. DO A FACT CHECK ON THE GUARANTEES.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  483. Britt Hume got it.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  484. Chris Wallace says Romney looks like protecting a lead.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  485. Wallace is convincing

    Angelo (055eea)

  486. Was this a debate? I heard the words “I agree” more than any other phrase.

    Ghost (2d8874)

  487. Now go brush those teeth and mend your garments, jumpy brigade…

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  488. Romney wins on first disagreement: status of forces agreement.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  489. My wife states she doesn’t think the debate is very helpful unless you already know a lot of things.

    (Me) Obama says he is giving what the Joint Chiefs say they want, Romney states we’re cutting the military too much, that the Navy and Air Force are at lowest relative strength in years. What’s a poor little pikachu to think?

    But the one did inform us that we have aircraft carriers and submarines that we didn’t have in 1913.

    No challenge about the cover up of Benghazi.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  490. Navy doesn’t need ships any more?

    Patterico (8b3905)

  491. Ha! Marines still use bayonets!

    Patterico (8b3905)

  492. Britt: Obama burdened by the record.

    Absolutely.

    Dana (292dcf)

  493. a sitting president seldom does himself proud by coming across as smug and peevish.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  494. Lying about Romney’s positions is Obama’s default strategy.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  495. “The Marines still use bayonets”!

    Angelo (055eea)

  496. HE IS DOING THE FACT CHECK ON THE GUARANTEES!!!

    Patterico (8b3905)

  497. There’s the quote I gave you.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  498. The left seems to think smug peevishness is a virtue. It’s not.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  499. Hah on the Marine who tweeted, “we still use bayonets.”

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  500. Real fact checking? Really? Let’s go to PMSNBC for confirmation of Wallace.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  501. Do we win the election, guys?

    Patterico (8b3905)

  502. Let’s go to PMSNBC for confirmation of Wallace.

    Let’s have you do it for us.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  503. We’ll win

    Angelo (055eea)

  504. Maybe Chris Wallace or his researchers read Patterico.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  505. Calling Afghanistan a reckless war is a complete flip flop for Obama. His claim in ’08 was that Bush had screwed up Afghanistan by not committing enough forces to it.

    What a freakin’ liar Obama continues to be.

    SPQR (768505)

  506. Gonna be closer than it had to be.

    The real question is the Senate.

    I say Romney wins. GOP gets to 50 in the Senate.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  507. I think the MSNBC folks are a little down.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  508. Well, it didn’t change my wife’s mind. So much for the war on women. She thought the President looked small and petty.

    President Obama, that is.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  509. Jon Berman on CNN fact checks Mitt Romney’s statement on Iraq and the force agreement as true.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  510. Romney-Ryan will win.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  511. Will there be a Frank Luntz focus group of dopey undecideds?

    I hope so.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  512. Chris Wallace said Romney was the one that looked Presidential.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  513. “My wife states she doesn’t think the debate is very helpful unless you already know a lot of things.”

    MD in Philly – Most non political junkies do not know anything about Obama’s repeated false claims of Romney being all over the board during the campaign. It’s inside baseball.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  514. Tomorrow I am doing a predictions thread.

    Electoral votes, Senate and House makeup.

    Sound fun?

    Patterico (8b3905)

  515. Romney owned the second half of that debate.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  516. Buchanan thinks Romney avoided BO’s traps…win Romney

    Angelo (055eea)

  517. By the way, I doubt very many people watched the debate.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  518. __________________________________________

    Do we win the election, guys?

    If I hated the US, I’d want it to become as liberal, as leftwing loony, as possible. I’d want it to become like a giant version of Detroit or Greece.

    Mark (0f9f3c)

  519. 502- Victory is the only alternative.

    mg (e0b08a)

  520. Obama never went around apologizing, the fact-checkers said so.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  521. I really like the Free Beacon.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  522. “Navy doesn’t need ships any more?”

    Patterico – Submarines are not ships according to Obama because they go under the water.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  523. pissy peevish to “show” in teh 6th. his faddah was a muddah.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  524. romney squandered an opportunity tonight

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  525. I like Predictions threads at Patterico.com because there are lots of smart people here.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  526. Patterico: I like fun.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  527. That’s a great line from Romney, DRJ. And it sums up Obama’s campaign completely.

    SPQR (768505)

  528. 525- agreed.

    mg (e0b08a)

  529. I thought Obama was way too snarky about the aircraft carriers and submarines. It showcased his irritation that anyone would oppose him, and it makes him look arrogant. Plus his face isn’t attractive when he snarks.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  530. “Tomorrow I am doing a predictions thread.”

    Patterico – Will there be math?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  531. Dunno Feets, the ladies aren’t upset. Hell, I have us in a war by breakfast

    Angelo (055eea)

  532. for thinking GWB was such a sh*theel, teh mutt pissy peevish sure adopted a lot of his policies!

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  533. DRJ, fundamentally Obama is a petty and small man, and he’s failed to hide that in each debate.

    SPQR (768505)

  534. Krauthammer: unequivocal that Romney won.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  535. Rats leave a sinking ship – keep your eyes open. The corollary is that ambitious men distance themselves from an Administration on its knees, they compete for advantage and favor by delivering insider secrets.

    ropelight (45fc45)

  536. The comments above make sense in that Romney was being careful and running out the clock, not wanting to look mean.

    If I was up there with the one telling me my plans to revise the tax structure and balance the budget don’t add up I would want to say, “No, Mr. President, it is your numbers that don’t add up. You said you would cut the deficit and bring unemployment down. You didn’t do any of it.”

    He came close to saying it when he said, “I’ve balanced budgets for businesses, for the Olympics, for a state”- he could have added- “and you couldn’t even get a budget passed, let alone balanced.”

    Would that have been too inflammatory?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  537. MSNBC panel can’t hold their mud! and Dr. K says Romney won LARGE BIGTIME.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  538. CK is correct about big vs. small picture concept.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  539. Hah! Sequester lie! Yaaaaaaay.

    Maybe Romney did win after all.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  540. Colonel Haiku,

    Is Chris Matthews tingling or stroking out?

    Our new DISH package doesn’t seem to have MSNBC on the channels we get…

    Dana (292dcf)

  541. I thought Obama was way too snarky about the aircraft carriers and submarines. It showcased his irritation that anyone would oppose him, and it makes him look arrogant. Plus his face isn’t attractive when he snarks.
    Comment by DRJ — 10/22/2012 @ 7:55 pm

    Agreed, that’s why they don’t send donkeys to Harvard. One really has to have no respect for who you are talking with to pull that one. But my wife wasn’t charmed by Romney’s smiles and snickers either.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  542. Even David Brooks says Romney edged out Obama by a scooge. He held his thumb and index finger about a quarter inch apart to demonstrate how close it was. But still…..

    elissa (3ce65a)

  543. ___________________________________________

    romney squandered an opportunity tonight

    Coming from you, happyfeet, I don’t know if that’s necessarily a good or bad thing. Not sure if you’re also not anxious to label him as ghey.

    Mark (0f9f3c)

  544. I’d like to hear more about your wife’s opinions, MD in Philly.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  545. Do you think she’d join us?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  546. mitt needs to lose the thumbs up gesture.

    mg (e0b08a)

  547. Dana,

    I only listened to a little but Chris Matthews was playing the race card. I think that means he is concerned.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  548. Time for the focus group. C’mon morons!

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  549. romney only won cause he was debating food stamp

    but he didn’t raise a banner under which people can, much less a banner under which team r can rally

    and i think if he wants to sit here waving a fistful of bernanke dollars and label china a currency manipulator on day one he truly has some seriously jacked up priorities

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  550. Well, if Brooks says it was close, then Romney clearly kicked ass. Ditto David Gergen.

    SPQR (768505)

  551. Mr Feets–am I mistaken or did I read on another site that you said can’t vote in this election? What’s that about?

    elissa (3ce65a)

  552. No Luntz??

    Angelo (055eea)

  553. Matthews is all slobber and distraught about the unrequited tingles in his future…

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  554. FRANK LUNTZ FOCUS GROUP!!!

    Patterico (8b3905)

  555. I only listened to a little but Chris Matthews was playing the race card.

    How?? I didn’t hear any dog whistles, did you?

    Dana (292dcf)

  556. I love the Luntzers!

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  557. We got Luntz

    Angelo (055eea)

  558. under which people can *rally* that was supposed to say

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  559. People liked Romney bringing it back to the economy.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  560. Fat Eddie is going to get soooo drunk tonight.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  561. Luntzers are eating Obama

    Angelo (055eea)

  562. The woman in the front, the blond, is a plant.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  563. Obama was still blaming Bush for 2 useless wars and the worst economy and deficit since Herbert Hoover made it bad for FDR, he just didn’t say Bush.

    I thought Romney’s point about looking to the future and not wanting to go back to the last 4 years of fecklessness (my word, should have been his) was a pretty good retort.

    Interesting how lies of the past become entrenched fact for some- blaming the economy on Bush and not the subprime mortgage mess enabled by Dems, 2 “pointless wars” as if the rest of the world was all nice and happy and we decided to be meanies.

    I’ve said before and will say it again, I think there are very real reasons to argue against the war in Iraq, but what typically hears is not serious discussion but just the “No WMD” garbage.

    And I think Afghanistan was doing just fine until we allowed NATO to be in charge with their “Barney Fife” ROE- you get to have one bullet in your pocket to use if you really have to.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  564. They’re screaming at each other.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  565. Who is the blonde stripper?

    Angelo (055eea)

  566. And the guy on the left in the front is a Romney plant.

    Kick him and the blond out. They’re annoying.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  567. If that idiot Obama cheerleader Brooks is giving the edge to Romney, I think I’m going to enjoy a dish of crow. I’ll never again be so happy to have misjudged someone.

    Alan (098693)

  568. Correct me if I’m wrong but Mush Mouth stated the “news article” claiming Iran and US were in bilateral negotiations was wrong.

    Later he congratulates Romany on agreeing with his policy toward Iran, listing among its components, bilateral negotiations.

    Like assuring us Islamic women are given respect and basic rights, reality does not jive. No wonder BootBlack has trouble keeping his con together.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  569. These people are as undecided as I am when I see a free cheeseburger and deciding whether I should eat.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  570. People think Obama did better on foreign policy.

    In other words, Obama won the debate.

    BUT — it doesn’t matter. Because the economy is the issue.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  571. Luntz and his dunce group never disappoint.

    mg (e0b08a)

  572. elissa i tried really hard to vote but my ballot didn’t get mailed in time and then i got in my car and went off to see america so i just won’t be around to vote

    tomorrow i head down into the louisiana delta as far south as i can go cause i never been there before and then i’ll go to mississippi and then follow the coast to florida and then i want to see mountains gandalf

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  573. Is “appearing Presidential” the new “gravitas”?

    Angelo (055eea)

  574. Luntz and his dunce group never disappoint.

    They say about what I come out of this thinking. Obama won this debate but Romney didn’t lose it big, and so Romney wins the big picture.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  575. _________________________________________

    There’s no excuse for the voters of this nation, unless they — we — have become ultra-liberal, to want Obama for 4 more years. That’s even more clearly the case since the person he’s running against, Romney, certainly is not the flip-side to Obama. Namely, he’s hardly an ultra-conservative.

    Mark (0f9f3c)

  576. The woman in the front, the blond, is a plant.

    Comment by Patterico

    That was so blondist! take that back.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  577. I’d like to hear more about your wife’s opinions, MD in Philly.
    Comment by DRJ — 10/22/2012 @ 8:02 pm
    Do you think she’d join us?
    Comment by DRJ — 10/22/2012 @ 8:02 pm

    She isn’t too much into politics, or blogs. She doesn’t work tomorrow (nurse) and had the opportunity to watch tonight.
    She agreed with the observation that they seemed to agree a lot, and by just listening to the debate it was often difficult to know who was making the most sense on an issue. So, sort of if you follow things closely you don’t need to watch the debate, and if you don’t follow things closely the debate isn’t as helpful as you would like it to be.
    The daughter went to bed before it was over, the cat looked very bored with its eyes have shut, “Do we really have to listen to this? I like Harry Potter movies better.”

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  578. Its just unbelievable to me that the Empty Suit(tm) could “win” any debate on foreign policy.

    SPQR (768505)

  579. I mean she didn’t appear to be a member of MENSA, but a “plant”?

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  580. tomorrow i head down into the louisiana delta as far south as i can go cause i never been there before and then i’ll go to mississippi and then follow the coast to florida and then i want to see mountains gandalf

    happyfeet, that sounds like a great road trip. are you on an extended leave from work or just making the most of vacation time?

    Dana (292dcf)

  581. #581 Maybe she will have buttoned up he blouse by next segment

    Angelo (055eea)

  582. “faithless tingle… where did I go wrong”

    – Chrissie Matthews

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  583. If Romney wins on the economy, he wins the election.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  584. she ain’t no plant, but she’s sure got a lovely pair of coconuts…

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  585. She looked like a bleached blonde to me.

    mg (e0b08a)

  586. i start a new job in january so once i nailed that down i gave my notice

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  587. feets- are you listening to Simon and Garfunkel? They did that “search for America” thing a long time ago.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  588. That’s terrific, happyfeet. Congratulations on the new job. And please post updates of where’ve you been and what you’ve seen. I love a travelogue.

    Dana (292dcf)

  589. mitt should have been stronger on foreign policy. it was a foreign policy debate. it was sad that he did not raise hell with barry hoosane.

    mg (e0b08a)

  590. Happy: I know everyone thinks you’re weird, but I like the way you think in a strange way that I don’t want to talk about.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  591. __________________________________________

    Obama won this debate but Romney didn’t lose it big

    Yet that does illustrate how dumbed down and sappy a percentage of the populace is (by giving Obama the benefit of the doubt), in terms of not just the rhetoric and recent history (eg, Benghazi) they’re dealing with, but the fact that — from a purely superficial standpoint — Obama came off to me like one of those figurehead politicians in charge of a Banana-Republic nation.

    Mark (0f9f3c)

  592. I must say, I’m not too fond of memories about “reaching across the aisle” that Romney evoked.

    People do like the idea of everybody getting serious and working together to solve problems, so that’s good; but I hope Romney doesn’t make the same mistake as GWB and think just because you could work with the Dems in the state house means that you can work with them in DC.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  593. I got to hear about 2/3, some with the house liberal, Willard drove home ‘America has to be strong to make a foreign policy work given the lay of the land’.

    And four more of Spokesmodel StepInIt will have us tunnelling under a northern border fence.

    Over the car radio it was not really close and the Mrs. said so, unprompted.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  594. Happy: See what I mean?

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  595. I concur with Althouse’s assessment of tonight. Of course, she doesn’t let on whether or not she’s now a decided voter.

    By adopting a strategy of only modestly challenging Obama and mostly seeming the same as Obama on foreign policy, Romney neutralized foreign policy as an issue and kept the election focus on the economy. He even refocused the discussion on the economy whenever he could over the course of the evening. The election is about the economy, and nothing either candidate said tonight will change that. The only way Obama really could have won is if Romney had tumbled into some kind of exploitable gaffe. That didn’t happen.

    Dana (292dcf)

  596. i will try to do a post or two i made a flickr but i’m really bad about updating it

    um… has sarah gotten some work done… or gain weight or something? she looks different

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  597. 592. “weird”

    Unconventional, rather. Convention is overrated.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  598. #598 Badmake up….she is really shiney

    Angelo (055eea)

  599. HF, what’s your flickr link?

    Sarah as in Palin is writing an exercise book. She looks like she is doing way, way too much homework on it.

    Dana (292dcf)

  600. spicy Thai flapjacks?

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  601. Obama won: hands down. The question is how will this change the niddle going forward. But I must point out, Romney lost somethingvery important tonight, the winning streak. Losing to debates back to back is not a great momentum booster. People needed to see Romney as an alternative to Obama. He is losing that argument. People are trending back towards Obama. Not good for Romney.

    The Emperor (fc6588)

  602. Media is doing the job of undermining Obama on FP. Just keep Benghazi front page. Candy Crowley did Romney a favor.

    Looks good for Romney.

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  603. gary-best billboard I have seen in Mn. Mn. is no.1 in voter fraud.

    mg (e0b08a)

  604. #603, LOL. Polls really changed last week right? ROTLFMAO!

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  605. Happyfeet: good luck with your new job. I wish you had gotten a chance to vote. It seems especially important for folks who are passionate about where this country is these days.

    I hope Romney doesn’t make the same mistake as GWB and think just because you could work with the Dems in the state house means that you can work with them in DC.

    There is no doubt Romney can work with the dems in DC. … provided he gives them a lot of what they want.

    But even that will be much better than what we’ve been seeing for the past four years, and it’s a worst case scenario.

    Dustin (73fead)

  606. #two

    The Emperor (09061e)

  607. thanks mr. 80 i’m not that weird though… i have a seed cap i wear a lot and a dopey grin

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  608. Comment by Ed from SFV — 10/22/2012 @ 7:14 pm

    Mitt shoulllllld crush this segment on China.

    He did comparitively well on that, but there were problems. He seemed to think biggest problem with China was their balance of trade policy. Not human rights, not secrecy, not dishonest business dealings, although he did mention an example of counterfeiting. He seemed to think there was no potential military danger. Of all the things to be worried or disturbed about China, he picked the least important. Putin’s a problem to him but not the Chinese dictatorship.

    About a possible trade war he said – China sells this much to the United States, holding his hand his hand high near his shoulder. We sell to them – he put his hand near his waist. who wants to avoid a trade war more.

    There’s a problem. All hat aboutChina wanting pece (or no disturbances to the status quo) could be true for the more civilian, more kleptocratic people. Not so for others. There is achange ofgovernment coming in China. Who knows where it is going?

    ChinaI think, or some people there want somebody to get away with using a nuclear weapon. China has now created a unit forth study of revolutions, with the goal of preventing and deterring them.China probably wants people killed in Syria. I don’t think they want people anywhere to feel they could improve their lives by replacing their government. They want no good examples for the people of China.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  609. Romney has won all three debates b/c he has the Press doing his dirty work on FP and he used his debates to do the work on the Economy.

    Folks are missing the point and will be shocked that Romney will edge even further ahead this coming week.

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  610. As I Age . .

    As I approach my twilight years, I am struck by the inevitability that the party must end. And one clear, cold morning after I’m gone, my spouse will awaken in the warmth of our bedroom and be struck with the pain of learning that sometimes there isn’t “anymore.”

    No more hugs, no more special moments to celebrate together, no more phone calls just to chat, no more “just one minute.”

    Sometimes, what we care about the most gets all used up and goes away, never to return before we can say good-bye, say “I love you.”

    So while we have it, it’s best we love it, care for it, fix it when it’s broken and heal it when it’s sick.

    This is true for marriage…..And old cars. And children with bad report cards, And dogs with bad hips. And aging parents and grandparents. We keep them because they are worth it, because we are worth it.

    Some things we keep — like a best friend who moved away or a sister-in-law after divorce. There are just some things that make us happy, no matter what.

    Life is important, like people we know who are special. And so, we keep them close!

    Suppose one morning you never wake up, do all your friends know how you really feel? The important thing is to let every one of your friends know your true feelings, even if you think they don’t love you back.

    So, just in case I’m gone tomorrow, please vote against that asshole Obama.
    (Stolen from Theo Spark)

    SPQR (768505)

  611. I remember back in 3rd grade when I stole Tommy Sparks’s lunch and skate key and he stared at me with the same look 0bama was giving Romney most of the night.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  612. thanks mr. dustin!

    dana here’s what i’ve posted so far… flickr is hard to work with so sometimes the order of the pics got messed up

    http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/87554623@N05/

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  613. That’s the best way to sell seeds, happy.

    Emperor: If I agree that Obama won the debate, will you agree that the race is over?

    Romney is going to win. Sorry, but this debate matters as much as the Oilers lead over the Bills in 1992.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  614. These Luntz people are not undecided.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  615. Everybody from Luntz says Obama won the debate.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  616. I agree with SPQR that it’s amazing that this guy could win a foreign policy debate.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  617. Romney is going to win. Sorry, but this debate matters as much as the Oilers lead over the Bills in 1992.

    I think you’re right.

    It’s the economy.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  618. MD:

    People do like the idea of everybody getting serious and working together to solve problems, so that’s good; butI hope Romney doesn’t make the same mistake as GWB and think just because you could work with the Dems in the state house means that you can work with them in DC.

    I think that was part of this and Romney is already thinking ahead to how he will govern. Taking potshots at an incumbent President is something a candidate does, not a President. I think Romney will win so it may not matter, but then again you don’t want to count your chickens before they hatch.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  619. someone heeds to tell our SCOAMF that the military still uses bayonets and the last US military horse charge was in 2002.

    as usual, Bath Salts Barry doesn’t know WTF he is talking about.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  620. 605. sicko i be voting yes on both referenda, the gays called me twice about the marriage amendment like somebody gave them my name. that one’s a tougher call because i’m not for subsidizing marriage, and estates should be assignable as in common law, which they’re unlikely to fix.

    But I hear 2/3 are for voter ID.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  621. 619- when the opponent is gutless anyone could have won that debate.

    mg (e0b08a)

  622. Focus group confirms my worst fears. The morons looking for an excuse to stay with BHO got one.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  623. Best to you in the future, happyfeets!

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  624. Regaring the Luntz focus group, my understanding is they said Obama won because he won on the foreign policy issues, but they also said Romney won the economic aspects of tonight’s debate. Since there isn’t much difference between Obama’s policies and Romney’s policies tonight, I’m not sure if this “win” matters.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  625. “Mr. President, we have freed nations from dictators.”

    If Obama won on points, OK, I can live with that.

    I would rather have the man that said the above quote.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  626. ______________________________________________

    Here is my fact check on Romney’s Detroit op-ed.

    I couldn’t care less if Romney had told the union-throttled, ineptly managed GM to “go to hell.” But there is a huge sea of squishy emotions out there, throughout America, and such libertarian sentiment — if it’s not explained in a way that drills into everyone’s skulls the actual reality of such matters — can end up making its adherents look too non-weepy, too non-do-gooder.

    Mark (0f9f3c)

  627. My point is that Bush had a record of working with the Dems in Texas, but there has been no working with the Dems in Congress since a short period after 9/11. Dissent is patriotic when a Repub is president, dissent is evil when a Dem is president.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  628. Focus group confirms my worst fears. The morons looking for an excuse to stay with BHO got one.

    I found it reassuring.

    Romney wins on economy.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  629. Frankly, if foreign policy was an issue in this election (it is among Obama’s failures but not one that the American people are focused on), the real way to debate Obama is to simply list all of his ’08 campaign promises on foreign policy.

    Each and every one of which he did the opposite of once in office.

    SPQR (768505)

  630. the last US military horse charge was in 2002.

    Really? In Afghanistan?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  631. thank you mr. colonel!

    i think drj is right… this debate froze the race… it didn’t really move the dial

    i think we meander more or less on this course til we get a new set of jobs numbers

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  632. MD in Philly, Bush got more of his legislative agenda from a hostile Congress than Obama got from a friendly one.

    SPQR (768505)

  633. Romney wins on economy.

    And that’s what this election is all about. Period.

    Dana (292dcf)

  634. I believe it was on wooden saddles with the Northern Alliance.

    mg (e0b08a)

  635. 612. Agree completely.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  636. Also re: Luntz, did he ever ask his focus group if anyone changed their mind because of tonight’s debate? I didn’t hear it if he did. That focus group looked pretty polarized so I’d be surprised if anyone changed their mind.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  637. DRJ: No such questions asked. Ugh.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  638. ““Mr. President, we have freed nations from dictators.”

    If Obama won on points, OK, I can live with that.

    I would rather have the man that said the above quote.”

    – Ag80

    The guy bitching about the Arab Spring because it provided disagreeable democracy? A bunch of people in the Middle East freed themselves from dictators, in a tradition we ought to respect but don’t because we’ve come to like security over democracy.

    Leviticus (17b7a5)

  639. Anyone hear any instant poll results?

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  640. 635- thanks for the pic. those look like wooden saddles. They killed the backs of the special opps. So one of the guys called some friends that had horses in Wyoming and they flew are boys leather saddles.

    mg (e0b08a)

  641. @CBSNews BREAKING: CBS NEWS INSTANT POLL Who won the #Debate? OBAMA: 53%; ROMNEY: 23%, TIE: 24% (Margin of Error: 4%; Sample Size: 521)

    Dana (292dcf)

  642. A sculpture depicting a US soldier riding horseback during the invasion of Afghanistan was unveiled near its new home on Friday near One World Trade Center in Lower Manhattan.

    The 16-foot-tall bronze statue, titled “De Opresso Liber,” depicts a Special Operations soldier in Afghanistan after the 9/11 attacks, and commemorates the first time US troops used horses in combat since 1942.

    ropelight (45fc45)

  643. Good. CNN poll dead even in likely vote effect.

    Ed from SFV (4a2220)

  644. I can’t wait to vote against both of these assholes.

    Leviticus (17b7a5)

  645. PPP’s first results from a swing-state insta-sample shows a narrower victory:

    @ppppolls Swing state voters say Obama won the debate 53-42, and are planning to vote for him 51-45

    @ppppolls The states covered in our swing state poll were CO, FL, MI, IA, NH, NV, NC, OH, PA, VA, and WI

    Dana (292dcf)

  646. I hate to repeat myself, but when one side takes the high ground, it usually wins.

    Romney took the high ground and let the opponent take pot shots.

    The media and the left will score this as a win, but I don’t think it will translate well to the public. Romney looked presidential and Obama looked as if his opponent was Hillary.

    Also, early voting. I bet a lot of people have already voted. I have no idea which way early voters swayed, but it could make a difference.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  647. 649-you voting Leviticus?

    mg (e0b08a)

  648. ____________________________________________

    I feel too partisan right now to want to voice even the slightest qualms about Romney, if only because I think Obama is a disgrace, sort of a nightmare scenario come alive. A bad Hollywood movie (perhaps one titled “Goddamn America!”), a case of life mimicking art.

    I can’t stomach even the thought of this election being close, much less the guy now in the White House remaining for another term.

    Mark (0f9f3c)

  649. SPQR #632,

    I agree that would have been the best thing to do. However, it appears Romney decided to play it safe tonight. (According to Fox News, it was Romney’s decision, not his advisers.) Overall, I’m glad he did but that only makes sense for a candidate who is clearly ahead in the race. Their demeanor and behavior tonight suggests both candidates know that Romney is ahead and Obama is behind.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  650. Romney should’ve said he was good with the drones and with waterboarding… missed opportunity.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  651. Thanks for sharing, Leviticus.

    elissa (3ce65a)

  652. re: #654… agree wholeheartedly, DRJ.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  653. mitts weakest debate

    mg (e0b08a)

  654. Juan Williams is acting like a child.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  655. leviticvs is teh quintessential angry young nihilist.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  656. i think we should focus first on the messes we CAN kill our way out of

    i bet we’d find the other messes get a lot less irksome really fast

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  657. wrong, mg. The wisdom of the strategy will become clear. Romney pretty much ate 0bama’s lunch the second half of the debate.

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  658. If Romney is not able to cast himself as a better choice than president and make the case that Obama is a mistake, he is not winning this election. To. Remove an incumbent you will need to draw that line. Obama will win by default. Americans don’t usually like to change an incumbent.

    The Emperor (fc6588)

  659. col are you saying he was weaker in the first or second debate?

    mg (e0b08a)

  660. 642. et al. Romany did fine on ME, there would have been little point to hitting it harder if he’d had the wherewithal.

    Most people don’t diddly, don’t know that the MB is the source of Al Qaeda, that the latter is now totally decentralized, that 20K flowed over the border into Libya ahead of 9/11/12, that the Paki drone hit on al Libi was the impetus of the reprisal, that Egypt is poised to make Libya a client state.

    The important point people got was that the region-Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Lebanon, etc., is coming apart.

    And the same old players, Iran, Turkey and Egypt are aiming to cut out their portion.

    We’ve got 5 carrier groups tripping over each other hoping to keep the lid on, and we can’t even get a Marine detail for our consulates. Barbados had a Marine detail 9/11/12.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  661. The 2nd, mg. But I think you might be looking at it the wrong way. We’ll both soon see.

    Yes… teh Giants! All in all a great night!

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  662. teh whimperor!

    Colonel Haiku (f6c71d)

  663. I feel too partisan right now to want to voice even the slightest qualms about Romney

    That’s understandable. Obama is a special case. Anyone who takes this country’s future seriously needs to unify and beat Obama. Fortunately, I think the enthusiasm for this is real.

    Also, early voting. I bet a lot of people have already voted. I have no idea which way early voters swayed, but it could make a difference.

    Comment by Ag80 — 10/22/2012

    I early voted earlier today, and turnout is very high in my more conservative neck of the woods. I think those noting the economy trumps other issues are correct. Obama can’t change his record, and we don’t want more of this.

    Dustin (73fead)

  664. Can the real Mitt Romney stand up!?!

    The Emperor (9ae02a)

  665. 663. Over the radio the Liberal in the passenger seat thought Down Low sounded listless, without emotion, rambling, trite and wholly unimpressive.

    I almost thought she might be open to changing her vote. The moment passed.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  666. ____________________________________________

    Yes… teh Giants! All in all a great night!

    A second time to the World Series in 3 years?! A team from the mecca of liberalism? Oh, oh, I don’t like the symbolism of that.

    Meanwhile, the Dodgers haven’t done squat since 1988, 24 long, long years ago.

    Mark (0f9f3c)

  667. 666. Oooh look who took the debil’s mark!

    I agree, #2 was weaker on the whole.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  668. Leviticus:

    Back in the day, the U.S. did indeed free people from oppression and dictators.

    Now, we just say words that say we don’t like dictators and oppression.

    If you approve of elected governments who subjugate half of their population to servitude and theological rule, good for you.

    If you don’t believe that democracy with freedom to all is the correct view of the future, good luck with that.

    If you don’t believe that the American way is the right way, well, there are a lot of countries that agree.

    If you have a passport, please use it.

    I don’t care a lot about security, but I do care a lot about free people.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  669. gg- I bet even if she did decide to change her mind and vote for Romney she wouldn’t tell you–she’d just do it when she got in the voting booth. Spouses are like that, I’ve found. Sometimes they just don’t want to give you the satisfaction of knowing you won the argument.

    elissa (3ce65a)

  670. ____________________________________________

    I almost thought she might be open to changing her vote. The moment passed.

    A variety of liberals would give Obama a pass even if he were caught on camera punching Michelle in the face. A somewhat smaller number of those on the left would draw the line at his committing murder.

    Don’t cry for us, Argentina.

    Mark (0f9f3c)

  671. According to Ace, even though the snap polls said Obama won the debate, on balance his performance didn’t move many people to vote for Obama. Advantage: Romney.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  672. 673. “Now, we just say words that say we don’t like dictators and oppression.”

    Precisely, as Urkel said tonight a hunerd times. He truly believes making a speech is doing something. And then he pounds some golfs.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  673. 674. “Sometimes they just don’t want to give you the satisfaction of knowing you won the argument.”

    Ho girl, do you know spouses. I jess pulling the ol’ antennae in and keeping quiet, speak when spoken to.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  674. That Debbie Dishwasher Shasta person is saying something in an irritating voice right now on Fox. Time to go to bed.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  675. Juan Williams is acting like a petulant partisian who knows Barack Obama deserves to lose the election and just can’t stand the fact that our first black President is an across the board failure.

    Williams is afraid that Obama’s failures will focus attention anew on highly questionable government programs responsible for the rapid progress of black Americans at the expense of our foundation principals of equality and fair play. And, he’s right, rude and offensive, yes, but right that a Romney Administration should examine Affirmative Action and put an end to racial preferences once and for all.

    ropelight (45fc45)

  676. 676. “On the question of who was qualified to be Commander in Chief: 60% said Romney was.

    63% said Obama was.”

    Bbut hasn’t Obie been prez for four?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  677. Comment by daleyrocks — 10/22/2012 @ 7:52 pm

    Patterico – Submarines are not ships according to Obama because they go under the water.

    The question is, did Romney count them?

    I don’t know if it means anything that Romney said 1917 and Obama said 1916 was when the NAVY had as few ships as projected by Obama.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  678. I don’t know if it means anything

    It’s not very important.

    Dustin (73fead)

  679. Colonel Haiku is evil. He has the devil’s evil number 666! Run folks!!!

    The Emperor (5647ed)

  680. Thanks for responding, MD #579, and that’s a great comment.

    I’m glad to hear things are going well for you, happyfeet. Have a great trip.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  681. Comment by daleyrocks — 10/22/2012 @ 7:27 pm

    This talking point about defense spending that the military is not asking for is complete unadulterated horsesh*t.

    Supposedly-biased-toward-Obama Martha Raddatz could say that (in much more polite words) to Joe Biden, but neither Mitt Romney nor Paul Ryan knew enough to say that – Romney did talk about Obama having abandoned the policy since FDR about being able to fight a war on two fronts, and Obama spoke about having asked the military what they needed to keep us safe, so maybe you could pt two and two together.

    And even so, they still take orders.

    Romney should have asked some members of Congress and others: “What’s wrong with that argument?” Because it’s obviously wrong.It feels very specious.

    Sammy Finkelman (b74417)

  682. I thought Bob Schieffer was an acceptable moderator. He covered the big topics, didn’t interrupt much, and tried to balance out the time — although it has to be hard to cut off the President. Overall, he was much better than Candy Crowley.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  683. thanks drj i feel very blessed cause of this sort of opportunity to travel is so hard to come by in all sorts of ways…

    that said if romney cuts gas prices in half in his first year i’m gonna be a little annoyed

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  684. elissa:

    I’d like to see Mitt say he’ll do all he reasonably can to PREVENT people from doing us harm–as opposed to Obama’s view that he’ll go track down people AFTER they’ve done us harm.

    Well said.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  685. 686. And Willard noted with the emphasis of repetition BootBlack’s own Defense Secretary said the effect of the cuts would be “devastating”.

    Unlike Slick, who leaves one at a loss to unseam his lies, exaggerations and tornadic spin, the Alien’s spiel is simple, straightforward BS.

    Tonight in a half-waking, half-dreaming state, millions of sheeple will unburden themselves of their half-perceived misgivings. ‘Self, you know you was played, dumbazz’.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  686. happyfeet,

    I’m glad you’re enjoying your trip.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  687. 687. Agreed. Nighty night.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  688. I’m signing off, too. Good night.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  689. ______________________________________

    ‘Self, you know you was played, dumbazz’.

    I feel antsy about tonight, sort of like the evening back in November 2000, and ensuing days, when chads were being counted in Florida. But unlike 12 years ago, there shouldn’t be signs of so many people being easily played by the smooth walker, jive talker. If only because Obama is way more of a slippery ideologue than Gore was — and, after 4 years, is a known quantity (and a bad one) — and that’s saying a lot.

    Mark (0f9f3c)

  690. mitt is one of those world court weirdos?

    nobody tells me anything

    That struck me too. WTF?

    And even if he is one, how can you indict someone for a genocide that hasn’t happened? You really want them start indicting people for “incitation”?! (Is that even a word?)

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  691. i am way more concerned about the spendings than i am about a nuclear iran

    If Iran goes nuclear we’ll have to spend a lot more. Or, worse, the spendings won’t even matter any more.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  692. One thing that struck me was Shieffer’s habit of giving many questions to Obama first (sometimes 3 in a row), where Obama would state about 10 obvious things as if they were Grand Strategy, then say that Romney had advocated the opposite when he hadn’t, leaving Romney not much to do but play defense.

    It’s a good strategy for Obama, but it was annoying to see the moderator feed it.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  693. how can you indict someone for a genocide that hasn’t happened?

    Indeed. I took it as Mitt trying to say something different, but peaceful. But it sure wasn’t his best idea. Even Gingrich would have thought twice about that one.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  694. i start a new job in january so once i nailed that down i gave my notice

    Sounds great. Are you at all planning to come up here to nyc? Or is that too “been there done that” for you?

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  695. People do like the idea of everybody getting serious and working together to solve problems, so that’s good; but I hope Romney doesn’t make the same mistake as GWB and think just because you could work with the Dems in the state house means that you can work with them in DC.

    The premise is that the people on the other side of the aisle have the same goals, and just differ on means. And that they operate in good faith. Neither of these is true. The Dems, at least in DC, want power for themselves and nothing else, and they will lie and cheat and stab you in the back. It’s impossible to compromise with them.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  696. I don’t know if it means anything that Romney said 1917 and Obama said 1916 was when the NAVY had as few ships as projected by Obama.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman

    What we do know is that 0bama probably ensured Romney would win Virginia.

    Colonel Haiku (820997)

  697. Following up on elissa’s comment that she wished Romney would have talked about preventing harm/terrorism, I’m not sure he credibly can do that without endorsing the Bush-Cheney doctrine of nation-building. I appreciate that Romney had to distance himself from Bush, but ultimately I think Bush’s approach is the answer — particularly in the Middle East.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  698. bush had a coherent worldview and could communicate it with eloquence and conviction

    happyfeet (a1806d)

  699. Also, I agree that using the UN to indict Ahmadinejad for inciting genocide sets a bad precedent because it can (and will) be used against Americans. Basically, it’s a UN version of criminalizing hate speech.

    My guess is this is something Romney and Netanyahu want to do in order to reset the dynamics in the UN. If so, I can live with it.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  700. 536. Comment by ropelight — 10/22/2012 @ 7:56 pm

    Rats leave a sinking ship – keep your eyes open. The corollary is that ambitious men distance themselves from an Administration on its knees, they compete for advantage and favor by delivering insider secrets.

    If that’s true, and I actually don’t think it is, then those who say the Administration lied about Benghazi have a big problem. Because nobody’s leaked about how they were told to mislead, or made other people lie..

    Instead, they have leaked about how they were not the cause of the misinformation or how about how stupid they were (portraying it as reasonable, though)

    How the Gap Arose Between Talk and New Intelligence – New York Times front page Monday October 18, 2012 (headline as in the printed newspaper, not as what is online)

    (The headline in the URL is still different)

    Sammy Finkelman (056225)

  701. Comment by elissa — 10/22/2012 @ 6:18 pm

    Obama’s “make sure” tic may be the drinking game catalyst tonight. Debbie Wasserman likes to use “make sure” too. Must be a Dem thing.

    They probably tested it out in a focus group.

    I wonder what the alternative choices were.

    “Guarantee” might have been one. That probably sounded too certain of success.

    “Try” might have been another. That probably sounded too weak.

    “Work xx” That probably sounded possibly unsuccessful, and also time-consuming and delayed.

    “Make sure” probably carries just the right note of success without sounding either overconfident, or incompletely confident while maintaining complete unspecificity.

    Sammy Finkelman (056225)

  702. Also, I agree that using the UN to indict Ahmadinejad

    The UN?! Who said anything about the UN? The UN isn’t a court, how could it indict anyone for anything? Breaches of the Genocide Convention are supposed to be tried “by a competent tribunal of the State in the territory of which the act was committed, or by such international penal tribunal as may have jurisdiction with respect to those Contracting Parties which shall have accepted its jurisdiction”. In this case who’s that?

    for inciting genocide sets a bad precedent because it can (and will) be used against Americans. Basically, it’s a UN version of criminalizing hate speech.

    The Genocide Convention does ban “Direct and public incitement to commit genocide”, but Ahmadinajad hasn’t done that. He’s threatened to commit genocide himself, not incited others to commit it. And his threats would be protected speech if made in the USA, because everybody knows that he hasn’t got the means to carry them out, so for now they’re just bluster. (See Watts v USA)

    My guess is this is something Romney and Netanyahu want to do in order to reset the dynamics in the UN. If so, I can live with it.

    But it’s got nothing to do with the UN, and even if it did you can’t possibly be OK with launching a criminal prosecution for political purposes, no matter how odious the target.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  703. “All over the map” is another Democratic trope. (Eliot Spitzer said that to about Romney)

    But that helps Romney (it undermines the argument he is too extreme or that he’s committed to a bad position) more than it hurts him.

    Sammy Finkelman (056225)

  704. Romney and Ryan like “champion” (small business)

    Romney likes “guarantee”

    Sammy Finkelman (056225)

  705. Rasmussen 50 (R), 46 (D).

    Mormon bimbos gonna be trotted out in 3, 2, 1 …..

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  706. Milieus,

    I believe charges arise under the UN’s Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. It can then be referred to the International Court of Justice or other court for prosecution.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  707. I think the UN has become a political weapon, Milhouse. Maybe it’s time evil regimes like Iran are the targets, instead of America and Israel.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  708. Re my comment 711 —

    I’m sorry about the spelling of your name, Milhouse. My tablet “corrected” the spelling and I didn’t notice it before I hit Submit.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  709. On the way to Mn. from Cape Cod bumper stickers were even, but billboards were owned by conservatives. Heading back today, should be interesting going through the battle states.

    mg (e0b08a)

  710. It seems to me that the Democrats and Obama are suffering from the relentless ridicule they are getting online, from the Romney campaign, and even in some of the media. It started with random billboards and picked up steam with Clint Eastwood at the convention. Since the, the mockery continued with daily empty chairs and “Brought to you by the letter O” and so on.

    No one likes to be mocked but Republicans have gotten used to it over the years. The hip, cool, celebrity-favored Democrats aren’t used to it and they seem to be struggling.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  711. I think in part, the Dems have counted on women’s vote in this. And they’re not getting it. So they have trotted out female celebs doing ridiculous videos to convince us that Team Obama is all about the most important thing in this election: women’s right to choose.

    As we can see by DNC darling, Sandra Fluke’s 15 minutes appears to have ended at the conclusion of the DNC, and is unable to draw women to the cause.

    Unfortunately, they’ve really been tone deaf with what women are most concerned with this election and instead assumed they could use an antiquated rallying cry like right to choose (we already have it, have had it and will continue to have it).

    They’ve deeply underestimated women’s concept and understanding of what is crippling our country and that’s to the Democrat’s shame.

    It’s the economy, stupid.

    Dana (292dcf)

  712. Funny thing about that stupid old Eastwood and his stupid empty chair—-now every time I drive down a street or road and see an empty chair sitting on a porch or lawn I think of that meme and am reminded how much an empty chair represents president Obama. (In reality the chair may just be a regular normal chair sitting on some non-political person’s porch, but it always sets me to wondering, and it sure shows the power of suggestion.)

    elissa (8d73e3)

  713. Funny thing about that stupid old Eastwood and his stupid empty chair—-now every time I drive down a street or road and see an empty chair sitting on a porch or lawn I think of that meme and am reminded how much an empty chair represents president Obama. (In reality the chair may just be a regular normal chair sitting on some non-political person’s porch, but it always sets me to wondering, and it sure shows the power of suggestion.)

    elissa (8d73e3)

  714. 704. Indicting Ahmadinejad is bad law, and it wouldn’t do anything anyway, and he’s on the way out in Iran, and why does Romney like this stupid idea so much>

    I think because he does think there is a big problem with bad religious teachings in the Moslem world.

    This, hoiwever, won’t do anything about it. And it’s not the right way to stop it.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  715. 704. Indicting Ahmadinejad is bad law, and it wouldn’t do anything anyway, and he’s on the way out in Iran, and why does Romney like this stupid idea so much>

    I think because he does think there is a big problem with bad religious teachings in the Moslem world.

    This, hoiwever, won’t do anything about it. And it’s not the right way to stop it.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  716. 704. Indicting Ahmadinejad is bad law, and it wouldn’t do anything anyway, and he’s on the way out in Iran, and why does Romney like this stupid idea so much>

    I think because he does think there is a big problem with bad religious teachings in the Moslem world.

    This, hoiwever, won’t do anything about it. And it’s not the right way to stop it.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  717. Comment by DRJ — 10/23/2012 @ 6:17 am

    702 Following up on elissa’s comment that she wished Romney would have talked about preventing harm/terrorism, I’m not sure he credibly can do that without endorsing the Bush-Cheney doctrine of nation-building.

    He endorsed a form of nation building – but with the help of Islamic scholars recruioted thriough the United Nations!!

    ROMNEY: Well, my strategy is pretty straightforward, which is to go after the bad guys, to make sure we do our very best to interrupt them, to — to kill them, to take them out of the picture.

    But my strategy is broader than that. That’s — that’s important, of course. But the key that we’re going to have to pursue is a — is a pathway to get the Muslim world to be able to reject extremism on its own.

    We don’t want another Iraq, we don’t want another Afghanistan. That’s not the right course for us. The right course for us is to make sure that we go after the — the people who are leaders of these various anti-American groups and these — these jihadists, but also help the Muslim world.

    And how do we do that? A group of Arab scholars came together, organized by the U.N., to look at how we can help the — the world reject these — these terrorists.

    And the answer they came up with was this:

    Anything but contradicting them.

    He too, it looks like would listen to the Saudis, or Qatar, because I don’t know who else this is, if this is udner the ausoices of the United Nations..

    One, more economic development. We should key our foreign aid, our direct foreign investment, and that of our friends, we should coordinate it to make sure that we — we push back and give them more economic development.

    Number two, better education.

    Number three, gender equality.

    Number four, the rule of law. We have to help these nations create civil societies.

    But what’s been happening over the last couple of years is, as we’ve watched this tumult in the Middle East, this rising tide of chaos occur, you see Al Qaida rushing in, you see other jihadist groups rushing in. And — and they’re throughout many nations in the Middle East.

    ROMNEY: It’s wonderful that Libya seems to be making some progress, despite this terrible tragedy.

    But next door, of course, we have Egypt. Libya’s 6 million population; Egypt, 80 million population. We want — we want to make sure that we’re seeing progress throughout the Middle East. With Mali now having North Mali taken over by Al Qaida; with Syria having Assad continuing to — to kill, to murder his own people, this is a region in tumult.

    And, of course, Iran on the path to a nuclear weapon, we’ve got real (inaudible).

    SCHIEFFER: We’ll get to that, but let’s give the president a chance.

    I appreciate that Romney had to distance himself from Bush, but ultimately I think Bush’s approach is the answer — particularly in the Middle East.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  718. Sorry the last line is DRJ.

    Earlier Romney had said:

    ROMNEY:….But we can’t kill our way out of this mess. We’re going to have to put in place a very comprehensive and robust strategy to help the — the world of Islam and other parts of the world, reject this radical violent extremism, which is — it’s certainly not on the run.

    ROMNEY: It’s certainly not hiding. This is a group that is now involved in 10 or 12 countries, and it presents an enormous threat to our friends, to the world, to America, long term, and we must have a comprehensive strategy to help reject this kind of extremism.

    This was the most interesting thing to come oput of the debate.

    Obama has nothing like this.

    However, the problem here is whom to trust. I get the feeling that Romney finds this so strange, he thinks it must be easy to solve.

    And also, the Islamacists know who are the people who are a danger to their ideology.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  719. At least this thread is working again.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  720. Sammy,

    I think we’re using the term nation-building in different ways. Like Bush, I would be willing to use force (as in Iraq), although only as a last resort.

    The first steps are always to do what Romney described: To use diplomacy, culture, and economic actions to share basic American and Western values. Unfortunately, that is difficult in totalitarian societies.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  721. Romney is the debate:

    But the Saudi’s and the Qatari, and — and the Turks are all very concerned about this. They’re willing to work with us.

    No good.

    There is an intelligence failure, and Romney doesn’t seem to know it.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  722. Romney seems to trust the intelligence:

    ROMNEY:… As you hear from intelligence sources even today, the — the insurgents [in Syria] are highly disparate. They haven’t come together. They haven’t formed a unity group, a council of some kind. That needs to happen.

    No, it doesn’t. The Islamists need to be excluded and then they need to be defeated in a civil war after Assad falls.

    You don’t want Saudi Arabia and Qatar and maybe Turkey organizing the opposition now do you, Romney?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  723. Comment by DRJ — 10/23/2012 @ 11:32 am

    “I think we’re using the term nation-building in different ways. Like Bush, I would be willing to use force (as in Iraq), although only as a last resort.”

    Romney’s for nation building, just without U.S. troops. He thinks he can send money to the right people.

    But they’ll easily be the wrong people, if he doesn’t understand that, there’s a big, big, problem.

    And without U.S. troops, or something, there’ll be no protection.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  724. 253. Comment by Alan — 10/22/2012 @ 6:44 pm

    So we don’t need ships anymore? That’s news to me. What do we use now? Sharks with fricking laser beams?

    What Obama was that modern day ships, like aircraft carriers or submarines, are so much better than World War I era ships, and you just can’t compare ship numbers.

    But this claim is actually a claim that it is less than 1990 (although apprently some people are srguing about that) or less than 2000 or 2010.

    Romney also said like this:

    We’ve changed for the first time since FDR — since FDR we had the — we’ve always had the strategy of saying we could fight in two conflicts at once. Now we’re changing to one conflict.

    Obnama did not deny that. It’s true.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  725. 253. Comment by Alan — 10/22/2012 @ 6:44 pm

    So we don’t need ships anymore? That’s news to me. What do we use now? Sharks with fricking laser beams?

    What Obama was that modern day ships, like aircraft carriers or submarines, are so much better than World War I era ships, and you just can’t compare ship numbers.

    That seems to be spoil the argument. But “lowest number of ships since 1917” (or is it 1916?) also is a claim that it is less than in 1990 (although apprently some people are arguing about that) or less than 2000 or 2008.

    And more to the point, Romney also said like this:

    We’ve changed for the first time since FDR — since FDR we had the — we’ve always had the strategy of saying we could fight in two conflicts at once. Now we’re changing to one conflict.

    (World War II and the Pacific War)
    Obnama did not deny that. It’s true.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  726. Oh, the previous message did go through. I pressed the Back button and edited a bit.

    Patterico is still having some problems, unless the problem is only at this end.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  727. I was very impressed by Obama’s rhetoric on the amazing things his administration is doing in the area of women’s issues in the Islamic world given his expressed desires not to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries except Israel. I checked out the State Department website and found the following wonders:

    “Programming in the Near East and North Africa

    To date the Secretary’s Office of Global Women’s Issues (S/GWI) has funded five grants in North Africa and the Middle East for the total amount of $350,000. The grants are targeted to local organizations and fund projects that seek to increase the effectiveness of efforts to combat gender-based violence (GBV), women’s knowledge of and application of their civic, legal, political, and economic rights, and their access to justice, rule of law, and social and economic services. These small grants are based on the foundation that political and economic stability cannot be achieved without the full and effective participation of the women and girls and local organizations that make up the backbone of society.”

    http://www.state.gov/s/gwi/programs/region/nea/index.htm

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  728. “What Obama was that modern day ships, like aircraft carriers or submarines, are so much better than World War I era ships, and you just can’t compare ship numbers.”

    Sammy – More to the point, the military actually asked for the ships. It is part of Obama’s fiction that Romney wants to spend money the military never asked for.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  729. Comment by SPQR — 10/22/2012 @ 8:46 pm
    Thanks for the picture on the unarmored cavalry. I rode on a camel once, good thing they didn’t have to use those.

    About “nation building”- another example of being blamed no matter what you do. Seems to me that once upon a time there were voices saying the whole problem with Afghanistan was that the US abandoned helping them out after they pushed out the Soviets and the vacuum allowed the Taliban and Al Qaeda. That seemed a reasonable point to me. The implication being that to once again leave Afghanistan on shaky ground is to invite a repeat of rule by the Taliban and Al Qaeda types.

    I don’t think there has been a Democrat willing to talk reasonably and sensibly on national defense since Scoop Jackson. I’m not talking about having a “hawkish” view, I’m talking about just being honest and using reason instead of catch phrases.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  730. Yes, MD, the last time, the Massoud govt was displaced by the Taliban, which led to our current state of affairs, the proxy of a coup attempt in Iraq failed in ’95 and’98.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  731. _____________________________________________

    About “nation building”- another example of being blamed no matter what you do.

    There are a variety of Hobson’s choices, or Catch-22s, regarding the Middle East. The biggest one of them all revolves around Iran/nuclear weapons/Israel. Maybe that’s a big reason that growing, large percentages of Americans — of all political stripes — are gravitating towards a more inward, if not isolationist, way of thinking. Moreover, it costs so damn much to be the policeman of the world, and our federal budget already is bloated.

    Current sentiment probably is a big reason that Romney on Monday toned down any rhetoric that implied he’d operate a presidency that was more traditionally Republican, more aggressive and pro-military than the flip side of the rather effete, kumbayah foreign-affairs mindset of an Obama or John Kerry.

    I have certain mixed feelings of Romney being overly passive last night about controversies like the US consulate in Libya in particular, but he has to walk a fine line, and I think he did better than coming out and being bombastic and certainly John-Bolton-like (even though I admire Bolton).

    Mark (4de17c)

  732. Unfortunately, those who do not learn the lessons of history are destined to repeat it.

    As long as the Earth exists with people on it, there will from time to time arise people who are evil and will do evil things until they are stopped. Stopping them sooner than later will always result in fewer lives lost, but that lesson seems to be forgotten by the time the next evil person arises.

    Blessed are the peacemakers, not the peace lovers.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  733. Anyone else wonder if Obama would know more about how our military assets and needs fit into the big picture of our national security, if only he had attended more intelligence briefings?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  734. MD in Philly:

    Blessed are the peacemakers, not the peace lovers.

    Wonderful quote. I’m going to remember that.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  735. Absolutely, DRJ. And it would have been wonderful if Romney could have slipped that into the debate. Attending 38% of your PDBs when we have troops fighting in Afghanistan, etc., wouldn’t play too well with voters. And it’s an easy-to-grasp contrast.

    Dana (292dcf)

  736. Comment by DRJ — 10/23/2012 @ 7:13 pm

    Actually I don’t wonder. I think Obama would love to have an American military small enough to be incapable of projecting American strength east of Cape Cod, west of the reefs around Hawaii, and 2 feet past the southern most bit of Florida. Let Canada and Russia fight over Alaska.

    As far as peacemakers vs peace lovers, I do not claim it as an original, but neither can I give credit to anyone. Chamberlain was a peace lover, Churchill was a peacemaker. Anti-Vietnam protestors were peace lovers, they didn’t care or think of the consequences of the US pulling out, they just figured once all of the US troops reminiscent of Genghis Khan were out everything would be honky dory.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  737. Barack Obama is a lazy individual, who has coasted his entire life on the good intentions of others.

    Chief Choom!

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (2bb434)

  738. 735. There are few Democrats who seem to be willing to talk reasonably and honestly about anything.

    Except maybe constituent service.

    I think it’s all because of the campaign finance industry.

    The amount of money somebody can contribute to somebody else is limited, but less so what they can contribute to groups that in turn give out money to candidates, like PACs or national political parties. Just the opposite of the way it should be.

    The result is members of Congress are not truly independent.

    This has been a growing problem since the 1970s.

    It’s in both parties, but there’s less variety of opinion in the Democratic Party.

    Sammy Finkelman (a1f34f)


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