Patterico's Pontifications

10/16/2012

Debate Open Thread: The Candidate Must Be the Fact-Checker

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 5:35 pm



I have railed against fact-checkers on this blog many times, so it especially irked me to see this on Hot Air Headlines yesterday:

Independent fact-checkers say their work informs voters and holds politicians accountable. “Campaigns are very aware that fact-checkers are watching them,” said Bill Adair, editor of PolitiFact. PolitiFact’s web traffic has shot up this year and “it’s just gone off the charts on debate nights,” Adair said.

It’s disgusting that these outfits are lionized as actual fact checkers. Let’s look at the respective organizations’ fact-check of the Vice Presidential debate:

FactCheck.org

PolitiFact

Notice anything missing? The Free Beacon did:

Vice President Joe Biden accused Rep. Paul Ryan of putting two wars on the “credit card,” and then suggested he voted against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

“By the way, they talk about this great recession like it fell out of the sky–like, ‘Oh my goodness, where did it come from?’” Biden said. “It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card, at the same time, put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy.”

“I was there, I voted against them,” Biden continued. “I said, no, we can’t afford that.”

Then Sen. Biden voted for the Afghanistan resolution on Sept. 14, 2001 which authorized “the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.”

And on Oct. 11, 2002, Biden voted for a resolution authorizing unilateral military action in Iraq, according to the Washington Post.

It’s nice that the Free Beacon picked this up. And shameful that PolitiFact and FactCheck.org didn’t.

So forget them. But that leads me to a second point.

Paul Ryan should have been all over that. Instead, he just sat there and smiled. He did a good job in the debate generally, but he missed a chance to whack Biden on this issue.

You can’t miss too many of these chances.

Romney is leading by five in swing states, but he can’t get lazy. Tonight is important, and Romney has to be on his game. He has to call out Obama’s lies because Big Media and the Official Fact Checkers will not.

We’ll see what happens.

499 Responses to “Debate Open Thread: The Candidate Must Be the Fact-Checker”

  1. Ding.

    Patterico (255b20)

  2. Sorry to close out the other thread. I had this post all drafted this morning and forgot to put it up before going to work. I wanted to get this thought out before the debate.

    Patterico (255b20)

  3. Did I confuse everybody?

    Patterico (255b20)

  4. Maybe I just have to leave like 10 comments in a row so the recent comments only show this thread.

    Patterico (255b20)

  5. Like this.

    Patterico (255b20)

  6. Comment by Patterico — 10/16/2012 @ 5:49 pm

    Did I confuse everybody?

    No. Well, except for that thing about closing out the other thread.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  7. they’ll figure it out, unless they’re obama supporters.

    cc (846867)

  8. How about that Candy Crowley, huh?

    Patterico (255b20)

  9. Sammy,

    I just didn’t want two open threads.

    What I should have done is direct comments on this post to JD’s thread.

    But what I *should* have done is publish this post this morning.

    Patterico (255b20)

  10. cc,

    Heh. An intelligence test to weed out the Obama supporters? I like it.

    I should do this every time.

    Patterico (255b20)

  11. O.K., I am confused, but present!

    Felipe (3243af)

  12. Romney will get the first question.

    Felipe (3243af)

  13. Did Biden play football in college?

    JD (43ce10)

  14. Felipe,

    Welcome.

    Patterico (255b20)

  15. It is great to be here.

    Felipe (3243af)

  16. You can’t miss too many of these chances.

    Paul Ryan missed a lot of them.

    Mitigating that, is that’s it’s difficult to study up on that. You wouldn’t know what to study. You can look at statements the opposing candidates have repeatedly made, or that have been used in ads, and even on blogs or on the radio.

    But to catch Biden on this, you’d have to know his record.

    It wuld have helped to have read a couple of magazine profiles of him, not written this year, but over the course of time, so that you’d know – he voted for the Iraq war (afghanistan everybody did)

    Now it is true about Biden that he was against the surge in Iraq. And he wanted to get out sooner. He had this plan for partitioning the country.

    Evenb with bin Laden he had to find a special justification for going after him (he praised Obama for knowing we had to do it)

    Of course for someone like Biden who makes one misstatement after anotherm, as he did in this debate, you don’t have to catch every one of them. Even catching one quarter or one tenth is something.

    Ryan didn’t catch much. He didn’t even stop him when he said the Supreme Court was within one vote or two of OUTLAWING ABORTION!

    And as I said he wasn’t really on solid ground in dscussing that contraception lawsuit – maybe he was gradually getting himself together on that issue, but the discussion ended by that time. But he didn’t explain it.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  17. Start of the debate. Radio says hope to get in 13 questions.

    Candy Crowley and her team are the only people who have seen the questions.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  18. Romney takes stage center.

    Felipe (3243af)

  19. How can they allow that racist, felonious, cancer causing, tax cheating Mormon on stage with the President!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  20. Is that Candy Crowley or John Candy?

    Romeny is picking up right where he left off.Very good.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  21. Not nice, Bugg.

    Icy (172dc7)

  22. Tell him Detroit went bankrupt!!!!!

    JD (43ce10)

  23. Obama attempts to draw first blood.

    Felipe (3243af)

  24. Good jobs in that EVIL private sector.

    The fetish about higher education is really sweet. We need more LBGT, Women’s and Black Studies majors instead of electricians,plumbers and mechanics.

    Big Government-GOOD!

    Bugg (642d2d)

  25. Obama put Detroit into bankruptcy like Romney recommended but corrupted the process.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  26. Just based on the opening, Romney’s off to a good start, O not so much

    Joseph D (beda48)

  27. Candy gave Romney a Mulligan. Good

    nk (875f57)

  28. 10.7 percent! fact check that Illman.

    Felipe (3243af)

  29. He heard you JD,good call!

    Felipe (3243af)

  30. Why did thse guys switch ties? Tonight Romney’s blue and Obama red. How are we going to tell them apart?

    nk (875f57)

  31. Obama wants to tax more to “invest.”

    Here I thought we had a $16 trillion debt.

    Patterico (255b20)

  32. Romney whacked him on Detroit. Hard. Obama is playing to MSNBC.

    JD (43ce10)

  33. obama is the angriest political hack of all time.

    mg (e0b08a)

  34. Why does Obama wear a nurse’s watch?

    nk (875f57)

  35. Candy is being a very active moderator.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  36. Oooo gas prices and Sec Chu

    Angelo (234a2b)

  37. Answer the question Obama.

    Patterico (255b20)

  38. twice as far on a gallon of gas. at twice the price, no doubt.

    Felipe (3243af)

  39. Mitt should hit this out of the park. Keystone pipeline.

    mg (e0b08a)

  40. Answer the question.

    Patterico (255b20)

  41. Obama called Romney a liar and Crowley wouldn’t let Romney respond.

    ropelight (ae008d)

  42. What horse s##t he answers with.

    Angelo (234a2b)

  43. Romney scores on oil!

    Angelo (234a2b)

  44. Romnwy said that Obama actually took GM into bankruptcy. Obama came back that Romney wanted the wrong kind of bankruptcy – he would have taken them bankrupt without a plan to keep them open.

    True, but now he’s saying a different thing than when he said/says Romney wanted GM to go bankrupt.

    There’s a possible comeback that he favored creditors different from bankruptcy law and helped only retired union workers.

    pensions only of union workers

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  45. Romney is hammering him on energy.

    JD (43ce10)

  46. Criminals! Birds killed!

    Felipe (3243af)

  47. This is a a Romney haymaker. Obama will need headgear after this.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  48. Romney’s smiling, Obama’s not

    Joseph D (beda48)

  49. Both talked nonsense about jobs.

    There’s never been such a depression that in the end people didnt get jobs.

    Long term unemployed a good question but no answer.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  50. I can’t bear to watch. I can’t stand watching this President even score one direct hit. Just want to get to Nov 7.

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  51. Yes, hit him on the pipeline !

    Joseph D (beda48)

  52. Good of Candy to mention the price of gas.

    Felipe (3243af)

  53. Candy just said ‘Answer the question, Obama’.

    Icy (172dc7)

  54. Her gist is not what the guy asked.

    Patterico (255b20)

  55. Liar is their new theme.

    JD (43ce10)

  56. Obama just called Romney a liar again.

    ropelight (ae008d)

  57. Our clean coal goes to china.

    mg (e0b08a)

  58. Obama is on the verge of losing his temper and he is calling Romney a lair. This is “divisive”.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  59. Oh, here wego.

    Felipe (3243af)

  60. Cool, confrontation!

    Angelo (234a2b)

  61. The president takes Romney’s time

    Felipe (3243af)

  62. Not true
    Not true
    Answer a question not asked

    JD (43ce10)

  63. Is the entirety of Obama’s response, “liar, liar, pants on fire?”

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  64. Is our Affirmative Action President losing so far?

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  65. The GOVERNMENT SHOULD MAKE ALL THE DECISIONS.OIL COMPANIES-BAD.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  66. Eyeball to eyeball and Obama’s going Biden.

    ropelight (ae008d)

  67. yes mitt.

    mg (e0b08a)

  68. The proof is in the price – I like it.

    Felipe (3243af)

  69. Romney just sat him down.

    JD (43ce10)

  70. Mitt is commanding and backed the bamster down. Expect a Gillete razor themesong

    Angelo (234a2b)

  71. Even Candy Crowley is calling BS on Obama.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  72. Obama: “Booooooosh!”

    Icy (172dc7)

  73. obama should have to sit in the corner with a dunce hat on.

    mg (e0b08a)

  74. Uh oh…Bamster just hurt himself; said Mitt could drop prices, but thats just bringing back old days

    Angelo (234a2b)

  75. When I hear Romney, I think of the Brawny Man.

    When I hear Obama, I think of Mr. Whipple.

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  76. Candy tastes the Lehrer treatment

    Felipe (3243af)

  77. Q about official policy not to lower gas prices – Romney winds up talking about drilling but not on federal land.

    Obama: No doubt world demand going up – actually more drilling on public land.

    Obama: Romney when Gov Mass said a coal plant kills – he’s tried to be consistent

    Oil prod up, nat gas up, cars mor efficient, Can be exported. All of above strategy

    Romney: not what you;d done in last 4 years , Cut permits. Oabam: not true More oil. Romne: licenses.

    Obama; Leases not used. If want to drill use it or lose it. Romney: prod oil on govt land down 9%. Obama: not true.

    Work for the fact checkers.

    Romney: L don’t believe you would increase. Proof of strategy is price.

    $1.86 to $4. If Obama energy policy working, price would go down. Mentions Keystone pipeline again, offshore drilling.

    CC repeats price. Obama price was $1.86 because the economy was on the verge of collapse. Romney might bring down prices because we might be in same mess.

    Pipeline: we’ve built pipelines. Wind energy – thousands of people in Iowa and Colo working in wind power. yet Romney would be against it.

    Romney gets a chance to speak after a while: “I don’t have policy of stopping wind power” and they are real jobs not phantom.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  78. Crowley is not giving equal time.

    Patterico (255b20)

  79. So who is winning so far?

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  80. What… did I just see 0bama’s right eye twitch?!?!

    Colonel Haiku (c57a06)

  81. The ringer just arose and hit Romney with Axelrod’s talking point. Romney is knocking it out of the park.

    ropelight (ae008d)

  82. Watch the demagoguery and lying from Teh Won.

    JD (318f81)

  83. Obama will bring up 47% here. Mitt should ask if it’s fair that 47% don’t pay taxes. Say knows he misspoke and is man enough to admit it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  84. #70 Romney so far…..Obama keeps talking about the wonderful potential future….nothing about here and now

    Angelo (234a2b)

  85. On to taxes

    Angelo (234a2b)

  86. I hope Romney calls out the lies Obama just told about cutting taxes.

    JD (318f81)

  87. I think Romney is much stronger. But I’ve maintained the media knows it didn’t help to come down hard on Obama after #1, so they’ll be all out to proclaim him the winner this time no matter what.

    Joseph D (beda48)

  88. #84 I can’t watch after the first one. I am 100% invested in the Mormon after disliking him so. Rather I just get the report card with some updates.

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  89. Mitt speaks to people with respect.
    obama speaks with hate.

    mg (e0b08a)

  90. JD yes…I paid more last year and I’m not close $200K
    Oh yeah, BO doesn’t understand the tax tables, invest earnings are not taxed same as income!

    Angelo (234a2b)

  91. Romney’s voice seems calm.

    Felipe (3243af)

  92. I paid more, also, Angelo.

    Felipe (3243af)

  93. close up on BO, he is not having fun

    Angelo (234a2b)

  94. So far it’s an A- for Romney and B for Obama.

    ropelight (ae008d)

  95. Candy is feeding Obama tactics

    Felipe (3243af)

  96. 5 trillion dollar lie.

    JD (318f81)

  97. Ryan should have caught Biden on the Afghanistan vote — it was unanimous in the Senate and only one member of the House opposed it.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  98. How long before Candy says “Let me interupt you, Mr. President”?

    Felipe (3243af)

  99. BIG BIRD
    PLANNED PARENTHOOD

    JD (318f81)

  100. Big Bird!!!

    Patterico (255b20)

  101. Candy nods to Romney abd Obama does not like it. Candy”!?

    Felipe (3243af)

  102. Obama is just making up math as he goes along

    JD (318f81)

  103. candy was better from a stranger.

    mg (e0b08a)

  104. Props to Candy, she did stop the Prez.

    Felipe (3243af)

  105. Is it wrong to go hoarse yelling at your TV?

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  106. Math!

    Angelo (234a2b)

  107. Say it doesn’t add up now! Oh good… he did :-) Whew.

    Joseph D (beda48)

  108. A horse is a horse of course, of course.

    Felipe (3243af)

  109. Bamm!

    EPWJ (2925ff)

  110. Q about taxes to Romney

    Romney about prices going up – so need tax relief.

    Limit deductions at high end. Top 5% of taxpayers will pay 60% of the income tax collected.

    Romney – maybe maximum $25,000 deductions (on Schedule A) . He said that in the first debate but Ryan didn’t notice.

    Q. I’d have State and local income taxes? They also come under the $25,000 ceiling?

    Obama: his philosophy on taxes. Midddle class and people rying – tax custs middle class families he has cut taxes. He wants to continue them – not the payroll tax cut!

    98% not see tax increase Ready to sign now Gov Romney’s allies in Congress holding hostage.

    Romney – fundamentally disagree. Romney told 60 min his tax rate fair because grows the economy What grows the economy is tax cuts lower income people and tax credits

    Romney said tax cuts not tax rate cuts.

    Romney: Top 5% will continue to pay 60% If rates down small business can keep more capital.

    Unemployment high. His 5 pt plan helps the economy.

    CC: not allow top 5% have a tax cut. Obama says cost of lowering rates along with eliminating estate tax costs $5 trillion. 2 trillion more Bush tax cust total $8 trillion.

    When asked which deductions, can’t tell you.

    Obama already taken cap gains off the board No specifics from ZRomney except Big Bird and Planned Parenthood.

    Romney was an investor. You wouldn’t have taken such a sketchy deal.

    Either this blows up the deficit or (wealthy indv oly pay 4%)

    Nobody believes this actually adds up.

    CC: if this shouldn’t add up, Romney: of couurse they add up. I ran businesses Olympics state of Mass – balanced those budget.

    Talking about his plan in way that compleyly foreign to what it is. ZObama record bad. Road to Greece.

    $5 trillion because offsetting – Obama wants to say he is counting that.

    Romney again wants to mention that $25,000 maximum deduction.,

    Sammy Finkelman (d8778d)

  111. LILLY LEDBETTER

    JD (318f81)

  112. Obama will bring up 47% here. Mitt should ask if it’s fair that 47% don’t pay taxes. Say knows he misspoke and is man enough to admit it.

    Comment by daleyrocks

    Romney should also allude to obama’s statement about “people clinging to their guns and religion’ and mention that sometimes folks don’t say things very artfully.

    Colonel Haiku (c57a06)

  113. Why doesn’t Romney just say the reason the debt is so high is because the government spends too much!

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  114. Q: women make 72% of what men make….no where I’ve ever worked

    Angelo (234a2b)

  115. Expanded Pell grants – AAAnd foodstamps.

    Felipe (3243af)

  116. Who ya gonna believe, the deficit and debt king, aka President Downgrade, or me?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  117. “Workplace inequaiity” or what ever is more pressing than illegal immigration.Thanks, Candy.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  118. Obama calls the FALSE assertion that women earning 72 cents for every dollar a man earns “a great question”.
    Oy!

    Icy (172dc7)

  119. Hit Obama on pay disparities in White House!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  120. Call out OBarcky on White House pay for women.

    JD (318f81)

  121. Romney said he went out of the way to find women for his Cabinet. And he had more women in senior leadership positions than any state in America. and he was flexible with hours.

    Wants to make it easier for women – economy so strong employers will give flexible work schedule.

    Sammy Finkelman (de7af0)

  122. Vote like your lady parts depend on it!!!!!!!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  123. JD,

    Who what is lily ledbetter

    EPWJ (2925ff)

  124. This is a nonsense question. What a waste of freaking time given our fiscal mess.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  125. Lily Ledbetter scam! What happened to equal pay act?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  126. never mind its a bill – a meaningless bill

    you know how women succeed in the workplace?

    they work hard and achieve

    EPWJ (2925ff)

  127. Romney’s may be the best republican response to this question i’ve ever heard. it’s a republican response, and I’m biased (and male) but i really like it. It’s what i believe.

    Joseph D (beda48)

  128. Because, you see, if women want to work, they should kill their kid.

    Felipe (3243af)

  129. CONTRACEPTION
    RUBBERS
    UTERUSES

    JD (318f81)

  130. OMG, Lady Parts!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  131. BO snuck in women’s health and birth control (Planned Parenthood)

    Angelo (234a2b)

  132. Please Governor say 31-year old professional student women do not need their employer nor government to procure birth control and pay for abortion.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  133. Obama: Romney would not say if he supported Lilly Ledbetter bill.

    Obama – Romney comfortable politicians making decisions. Obama says employers should not make decision about contraceptive coverage.

    This is a pocketbook issue. Adds mammograms, child care. Says these are not just women;s issues, – family issues economic issues.

    Sammy Finkelman (de7af0)

  134. Guilty by association.

    Felipe (3243af)

  135. I am undecided. BUSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHH

    JD (318f81)

  136. Now, the blame Bush ringer makes an appearance.

    ropelight (ae008d)

  137. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuush!

    EPWJ (2925ff)

  138. Katz a plant – leaves growing out of her ears.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  139. Like Obama’s daughters won’t have chances far above and beyond what the vast majority of people, let alone “women.”

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  140. I don’t see Bush onstage.

    Felipe (3243af)

  141. An “undecided” voter. Yeah right.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  142. BO tries to have Mitt shutdown…Candy slammed BO

    Angelo (234a2b)

  143. Yes, the Bush card, by an “Undecided Voter”.

    nk (875f57)

  144. Obama losing badl – whining about time keeping may – may come across to some as – please dont let that man speak!

    EPWJ (2925ff)

  145. Absolute ridiculous claim to be undecided voter.

    JD (318f81)

  146. Q. Bith you and Pres Bush rep – what’s the biggest diff between you and GW Bush

    Says he doesn’t believe bureac=rats or employers tell women not to use contraception.

    Romney differences: technology improved, more energy now. More trade agreements. Diff from Bush because opposes deficits. More help for small business.

    Obamacare keeps small business

    Bush very diff time.

    Sammy Finkelman (de7af0)

  147. BO is calling the Bush card…he friggin did it Sheesh what a weakling

    Angelo (234a2b)

  148. So far no Libya, no foreig policy except trade.

    Sammy Finkelman (de7af0)

  149. Obama just comes off as petulant when he addresses Romney.

    JD (318f81)

  150. Obama sent more stimulus money to China than Romney ever invested there.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  151. I may be a partisan, “decided” voter but to me, Romney seems very calm and conversational. Obama seems angry and confrontational.

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  152. BUSH=EEEEEVVVVVVIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLL!

    If coffee klatch/Barbra Streisand fan Susan Katz is undecided I’m a ballerina.What crap.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  153. Romney an extremist!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  154. BO sez Mitt more extreme than Bush on social issues

    Angelo (234a2b)

  155. I loved you bunches in 2008. I love you just a little less today.

    JD (318f81)

  156. Did Romney just throw Bush under the bus? Shocker!!

    The Emperor (209fdf)

  157. Obama: Romney invesed in China. How can he be tough n China when he invested in company that builds surveillance equip on China to spy on its citizens,.

    Obama: Romney is diff from Bush. Bush did not want cut funds Planned Parenthood. Bush believed in comprehnsive immigration reform. Romney extreme on social policy

    Sammy Finkelman (de7af0)

  158. Mike Jones is not happy.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  159. Football spiked.

    Icy (172dc7)

  160. Obama said he has gone after Al Qaeda like never before and Osama bin Laden is dead.

    Sammy Finkelman (de7af0)

  161. Where are these 5 million jobs anyway?

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  162. What plan has Obama put forward? Where is it?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  163. 161 At Taco Bell

    Angelo (234a2b)

  164. obama is on the verge of a free fall.

    mg (e0b08a)

  165. It was for lack of staying off the dang golf course.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  166. A lot of “us” are struggling, yes. That “us” doesn’t include you and Michelle Antoinette.

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  167. The Emperor is all SHOCKA that Romney isn’t a Bush clone.

    Icy (172dc7)

  168. Obama got 25 of the first 45 minutes. Heyo.

    Joseph D (beda48)

  169. obama’s heart looks like it could pop out of his chest.

    mg (e0b08a)

  170. The only thing Romney stands for is to pee.

    Still, love those criss-stage, depth-of-field CNN camera angles when Sir Willard is perched on his first bar stool.

    It’s Mini-Mitt.

    DCSCA (9d1bb3)

  171. Mitt just slipped in the stilleto between BO’s ribs

    Angelo (234a2b)

  172. “We’re going to double auto mileage because I legislated it.”

    Yeah!

    Free stuff!

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  173. BODYSLAM

    JD (318f81)

  174. Finally, foodstamps

    Felipe (3243af)

  175. IMP – step away from the bong

    JD (318f81)

  176. Romney also mentioned immigration in passing. A lot of things mentioned.

    Sammy Finkelman (de7af0)

  177. If I were Romney, I would bring up the 47 percent and cut off Obama at the pass.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  178. Romney: Reagan recovery was better

    Sammy Finkelman (de7af0)

  179. JD, if Obama gets a third term, he’ll give everyone FREE WEED!

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  180. Body blows landing

    Icy (172dc7)

  181. I believe Foreign Policy is the theme for next debate

    Angelo (234a2b)

  182. Immigration now

    Angelo (234a2b)

  183. We need more plants like this one!

    Felipe (3243af)

  184. Has anyone noticed just how many undecided African-Americans there are in the audience? Must be every last undecided black in Nassau County if the polls are right.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  185. VIsas for people to compete with our own kids-bad idea, Mitt. You cannot knock out rungs on the labor scale, not at the bottom nor out the top, and pretend you’re “helping” middle class people to find good jobs.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  186. Kevin-

    Apparently Hempstead and Roosevelt, LI are filled with undecideds. What a joke.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  187. Talk about Fast and Furious is he wants to talk about the border

    JD (318f81)

  188. Obama’s economy worked great for slowing illegal immigration, so there is that.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  189. Mitt is smooth and convincing tonight.

    mg (e0b08a)

  190. Why is Obama suing states that want to make their borders safe?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  191. Crowley is as bad I thought she’d be.

    SPQR (768505)

  192. Obama got 25 of the first 45 minutes. Heyo.

    They’re keeping track!

    Patterico (8b3905)

  193. Will Obama deport habitual DWi criminal Uncle Obango?

    Bugg (642d2d)

  194. They’re just not giving equal time.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  195. Flow of “undocumented workers” lowest in 40 years – murdering gunrunners, not so much.

    Felipe (3243af)

  196. BO wants to help illegals think they are Americans

    Angelo (234a2b)

  197. Crowley is as bad I thought she’d be.

    She’s bad.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  198. Obama misrepresents Arizona law.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  199. Here we go with the “My daughter” again.

    Felipe (3243af)

  200. Obama just told an outright lie about Arizona’s SB 1070 law.

    Icy (172dc7)

  201. Eveil racist Whitey the Cop still roams the land, acting stupidly. Some even stop illegal drunkards from Kenya driving with a load on.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  202. Mitt scores again on BO broken promises

    Angelo (234a2b)

  203. Crowley just let’s Obama go and go and go.

    JD (318f81)

  204. Fight, fight, fight!

    Felipe (3243af)

  205. If I were a democratic fact checker right now – I would be firing up my resume for a new line of work

    EPWJ (2925ff)

  206. Equal time, Candy. Equal time.

    Joseph D (beda48)

  207. Lol, Obama, “lets not talk about [MY Chinese investments]”

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  208. Immigration question,

    Rmney wants to filibuster. Talk in genral. Welcomelegal immigrants. Wants streamlined. Shouldn’t have to hire alawyer to figure out how to get into this country legally. Green card stapled to diploma. People who come illegally take place of people waiting in line. (really?)

    Not driver;s licenses.

    the kids. Pathway to become a permanent resdint. Military service is one way.

    Obama promised to file a bill first year. He didn’t do it. Why did he fail to even promote legslation.

    Obama: nation of immig – all understand what this country has become because talent from all over workd come do. Also nation of laws. Have done everything he cn on his own.

    Steamlined legal immigration system. (he didn) More border patrol, flow lower than in 40 years. Do it smartly go after gnagbangers nbot students or people trying to figure out how to feed their families. Young people think of themselves as Americans – done admnistratively.

    Romney says wants to hekp thes epeople to but sadd=id he would veto Dream act. Said encourage self deportation. Arizona law. Check [papers. I don’t want to empower somebody to check papers

    wqhen Romney says he didn’t try not true. Sat down. Very hard to support comp immig if standard bearer said not interested.

    Romney did not say ariz law was a model in that aspect – only e-verify. I asked a Q – he was asked on Univision. Doesn’t answwer. I am lad yyou thought I was the standard bearer 4 years ago (McCain was)

    elf-deportation not going to round up – make own choice – not in favor of rounding up. m in favor if crimes.
    Wants to go back to that Chinese investment.

    Blind trust. I understand they do include. Obama: have you looked at your pension. Also ovrseas Chinsse Caymans trust,

    Obama: his top adviser on immig is the guy who esigned that Ariz law.

    Obama folks around works who see America as land of promise.

    Doesn’t want this a divisive political siissue (unlike health care)

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  209. crowley is awful

    mg (e0b08a)

  210. Obama is much better in this debate than in the last one…

    The Emperor (209fdf)

  211. Obama: we’ll get it done THIS time!!!

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  212. He called Kerry Karen.

    Now he will lie about Libya.

    JD (318f81)

  213. Libya . . . finally.

    Icy (172dc7)

  214. obama is harms way.

    mg (e0b08a)

  215. First of all let me (not answer your question)

    Felipe (3243af)

  216. 210…

    awfully low bar there…

    cc (846867)

  217. Obama:

    Let me now dodge the Benghazi question.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  218. Obama:

    Let me now dodge the Benghazi question.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  219. #210 if better means he’s not asleep, yeah ok

    Angelo (234a2b)

  220. Libya question. Obama talks about other things than asked.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  221. 200.Obama just told an outright lie about Arizona’s SB 1070 law.

    Comment by Icy — 10/16/2012 @ 7:04 pm

    and on healthcare,taxes,school tuition, energy etc etc

    EPWJ (2925ff)

  222. Fox is on ten-second delay from CNN.

    nk (875f57)

  223. Obama is running away from a very simple question as fast as he can. Nothingness, nonsense, balderdash.

    Lying about why this happened is making political points.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  224. Number 4, aaaaaaaaaaaaaand blame it all on a YouTube video.

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  225. He has not answered the question.

    JD (318f81)

  226. @The Emperor, MSNBC will shout from the rooftops how “great” Obama was. But it’s a win for Romney among the voters who still have yet to decide, however few they may be.

    Joseph D (beda48)

  227. Obama: “What happened”?

    Felipe (3243af)

  228. He’s NOT answering the question that Kerry asked AT ALL.

    Icy (172dc7)

  229. Obama:

    Unless a Las Vegas fundraiser gets in the way.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  230. Obama sounds about as tough as my Shih Tzu.

    About.

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  231. Obama talks about some of his bad decisions like they were good.

    Said 3 things he did when it happened in Benghazi

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  232. Just because it’s Fox, it does not mean it’s on our side.

    nk (875f57)

  233. Bingo! Bengazi

    Angelo (234a2b)

  234. C-span here.

    Felipe (3243af)

  235. not going to briefings should be mentioned.

    mg (e0b08a)

  236. Great answer from Romney on Lybia

    Joseph D (beda48)

  237. Payback for “My Pet goat”

    Angelo (234a2b)

  238. Romney sort of stumbling

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  239. Agree, mg, hit Obama for not going to briefings. So much to hit though, must’ve slipped his mind.

    Joseph D (beda48)

  240. Does the buck stop with Sec Stae?

    Angelo (234a2b)

  241. This is why Hillary fell on her sword. He pays her back now.

    Felipe (3243af)

  242. Why did you blame it on a YouTube video?

    JD (318f81)

  243. Hillary taking responsibility. Bravo, Candy.

    nk (875f57)

  244. Obama did not answer the question about the reduced security.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  245. Obama:

    Let me now dodge the Clinton-Libya question.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  246. I am offended. Wah. I don’t play politics. Bull facking shlt

    JD (318f81)

  247. BO all indignant now…tough guy

    Angelo (234a2b)

  248. Obama always responsible.

    Again repeats going to find out what happened and hunt them down.

    Suggestion that anybody on his team would play politics or mislead is offensive.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  249. I call Candy the winner, thus far.

    nk (875f57)

  250. Candy carries watrer!

    Felipe (3243af)

  251. Act of terror is word parsing. Different than attack by terrorists.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  252. Sorry Obama, evidence indicates otherwise.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  253. All bluster

    Icy (172dc7)

  254. omney doesn’t know Obama backtracked.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  255. the magic rose garden

    EPWJ (2925ff)

  256. I want to switch topics to make sure everyone gets their questions answered.

    JD (318f81)

  257. They actually were stronger the enxt day than later. Romney is totally confused.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  258. Isn’t it Romney’s turn for a question?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  259. Romney should have known what Obama said. I did.

    It was not good for Obama, and Romney could have made that point if he knew what Obama had said and the context.

    Disappointing exchange.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  260. This is not Romney’s night.

    The Emperor (209fdf)

  261. Candy carries a lot of water. Politically speaking of course.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  262. 2nd amendment

    Angelo (234a2b)

  263. Hit him on F&F.

    JD (318f81)

  264. Act of terror is word parsing. Different than attack by terrorists.

    Right.

    Romney should have been able to make that point, but instead he didn’t know what the other side is saying and how they have defended Obama.

    Arg.

    OK, move on, not the end of the world.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  265. Do Presidents actually go around comforting gunshot victims?

    Angelo (234a2b)

  266. Hit him on F&F.

    Damn well better.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  267. “Romney is totally confused.”

    Sammy – No, Obama is playing word games as was Carney in press briefings.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  268. Tell Obama’s record on gun rights.

    JD (318f81)

  269. Agree Patterico.

    Joseph D (beda48)

  270. A man who regularly breaks bread with rappers and did nothing in Chicago has some pair to talk like this. This is another Dem plant.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  271. Obama, asshole, there is no weapon that was not used by soldiers first, ever.

    nk (875f57)

  272. Obama said he shares the questioner’s belief on controlling assault weapons. HOW does he know what her belief is?

    Icy (172dc7)

  273. Crowley makes her bias known. 0bama blamed it on a video for approximately 14 days.

    Colonel Haiku (c57a06)

  274. Offensive suggestion, you mean like covering up Fast and Furious.

    If worried about semiauto weapons, why ship them to Mexico?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  275. FAST.

    AND.

    FURIOUS.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  276. Education. NRA and ROTC taught me guns.

    nk (875f57)

  277. THERE you go.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  278. F and F!!!!

    Angelo (234a2b)

  279. BLAMMO

    JD (318f81)

  280. He got there, Patterico. Strong.

    nk (875f57)

  281. My dad agrees with you, Bugg.

    Icy (172dc7)

  282. Candy cuts Mitt off from FandF

    Angelo (234a2b)

  283. They were not banned before they were banned, Candy.

    nk (875f57)

  284. this can’t end quick enough.

    mg (e0b08a)

  285. Candy cuts Mitt off from FandF

    She’s done this kind of thing all night.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  286. oooo…bad bad NRA

    Angelo (234a2b)

  287. Romney’s not explaining himself well tonight.

    We’re screwed.

    Alan (098693)

  288. Chicago and DC have the most restrictive gun laws. And more gun violence than anywhere else. Obama will not discuss F&F at all.

    “Knowledge is good.” Obama

    Bugg (642d2d)

  289. We can make a difference by walking these weapons into Mexico.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  290. Look, squirrels!

    nk (875f57)

  291. Is this a disaster or just a somewhat bad night? Assessment.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  292. Education, training, infrastructure and lady parts!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  293. #289 Mitt is doing fine…go to bed

    Angelo (234a2b)

  294. Oh, if it’s IMPORTANT then talk on!

    Patterico (8b3905)

  295. SQUIRRELS!!!!!!!!!

    JD (318f81)

  296. Disaster.

    Alan (098693)

  297. Obama runs over Candy like a kid on a bike runs over worms.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  298. #293 For whom?

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  299. Somewhat bad night, then.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  300. The name Candy does not inspire authority. Unless she’s getting paid to dance. Then she’s in charge.

    Birdbath (716828)

  301. Well, I think it is a mess, for sure.

    Felipe (3243af)

  302. Obama should not be too professorial here. He is taking too much time.. That is risky.

    The Emperor (209fdf)

  303. Romney is totally confused.”

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/16/2012 @ 7:19 pm

    Sammy – No, Obama is playing word games as was Carney in press briefing

    Well, you do have the fact that something perpetrated by a mob can also be called an act of terrorism.

    But the fact is as time went on, the administration was going more and more on to the idea this was related to the video.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  304. Understand I was picking up kids and had to listen to the first 45-50 minutes on the radio. And reception wasn’t always great.

    Right now Mitt seems a little off.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  305. This does not strike me as anything close to a disaster.

    JD (318f81)

  306. Romney did give a good rebuttal on investments. Obama knew what was coming – did not want to talk about his own investments. There’s a couple of rounds that he won.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  307. Romney is really making some points on trade. Not that I think that people pay attention to that.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  308. It would have been pretty difficult for BO to do as bad as 1st time. He’s awake this time

    Angelo (234a2b)

  309. Romney again treats the worst problem from China to be currency manipulation. This is all wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  310. Bad night for Obama. He has nothing concrete for the future. Just more of the same.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  311. Watch the blizzard of demagoguery on outsourcing from President Downgrade.

    JD (318f81)

  312. The debate is a mess, is what I mean.

    Felipe (3243af)

  313. Disaster for who? Not for Romney by any means. It’s a slow burn for Obama. But the media probably will clamor for an O win.

    Joseph D (beda48)

  314. Outsourcing is a lie for both parties.

    Harley got protectionism and is now only assembled in Detroit from Chinese-manufactured parts.

    nk (875f57)

  315. To me, it boils down to this:

    OBAMA: Liar, liar! George Bush!

    ROMNEY: Not true, here’s why, here’s what I’ll do.

    Romney’s had a couple unsmooth answers but at least hes talking TO the audience.

    Obama just seems angry and a lecturer.

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  316. Obama little by little looks less and less credible as a leader.

    Joseph D (beda48)

  317. I get better reception on radio than on television.

    This must be on bunch of stations. If radio reception is bad, try a different station.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  318. Obama did much better – but the problem is that his msg sucks – people are going to look at the fact that 4more years are going to suck

    EPWJ (2925ff)

  319. This does not strike me as anything close to a disaster.

    Good. I was just getting mad at Romney’s weakness on a couple of questions in a row, I think,

    Patterico (8b3905)

  320. There is an anger in Obama right below the surface that does not strike me as a particularly pleasant trait. Doubt it’s going to play well. And the simple fact remains they stuck with the Muhammad video no sense for 2 weeks.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  321. Another point, Obama is great at things he’s GOING to do.

    Coldwhite Desiato (d9866b)

  322. “Well, you do have the fact that something perpetrated by a mob can also be called an act of terrorism.”

    Sammy – Act of Terror, not act of terrorism. Act of terror as defined by White House is killing of innocent civilians. Get with the program.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  323. Mitt seems like a good seatmate on a long flight….Obama, not

    Angelo (234a2b)

  324. You know, people in China now are smuggling money out of the country.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  325. So Obama says he will do what Romney says he will do except he hasn’t done it. But he will!

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  326. This stuff about China holding down the value of their currency is a bit of a laugh given that the Fed has done much the same thing.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  327. Funny, I think Obama did OK. My wife says he came off as Joe Biden Jr. Interesting.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  328. That’s not why China has the manufacturing jobs. It’s minimum wage, regulation, etc.

    Duh.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  329. One of the reasons iPhone and iPad are made in China was because it was the only place that Steve Jobs could find a scratch proof touchpad.

    nk (875f57)

  330. Romney aaas s not answering about wage differentials between here and China.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  331. Doing a variation on his “you didn’t build that” routine.

    Icy (172dc7)

  332. Who ever started the idea that government spending is an “investment” needs to be hit off the head with a very hard object repeatedly until he or she stops breathing.

    Bugg (642d2d)

  333. I just came in and turned it on, and heard Romney talking about imposing tariffs on China?! Supposedly because he’ll designate it as a “currency manipulator”, whatever that means? WTF? This is a Republican?!

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  334. O did better than the first (how could he not?) but EPWJ is right — people are going to look at the fact that 4 more years are going to suck.

    Joseph D (beda48)

  335. #334 Second that!

    Angelo (234a2b)

  336. Sorry. Harleys are *assembled in Milwaukee*.

    nk (875f57)

  337. Romney seems tired. He needs redbull.

    The Emperor (209fdf)

  338. Romney couldn’t answer the question about how he was misperceived. Unprepred for it.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  339. Now we come to Obama lies.

    nk (875f57)

  340. #340 Disagree.

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  341. Mitt should’ve pointed out that 70% of the cars GM makes are manufactured out of the USA.

    Colonel Haiku (c57a06)

  342. Obama has many more prepared lines. Not necessarily any relation to reality.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  343. Obama did do better. Only thing he could do. And he saved the 47% for now.

    Felipe (3243af)

  344. Or Obama truths. Work your ass off and then give all you make to those who don’t.

    nk (875f57)

  345. Bamster isn’t answering the question….he’s bringing up the 47%

    Angelo (234a2b)

  346. 326.You know, people in China now are smuggling money out of the country.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman — 10/16/2012 @ 7:32 pm

    Okay Sammy, first – what money – second – a source

    third – have you ever set foot outside the country?

    EPWJ (2925ff)

  347. Romny wins, but not decisively. Obama delivers an uneven and uninspired performance that will suffer from subsequent examination.

    ropelight (ae008d)

  348. Obama finishes about how wrong Romney was about 47%. Romney can no longer reply

    Sammy Finkelman (3bb022)

  349. notice no one clapped

    they did boo obama twice though

    EPWJ (2925ff)

  350. Obama won!

    The Emperor (209fdf)

  351. # 340 I don’t agree Sammy.

    Felipe (3243af)

  352. Where are these different sets of rules Obama keeps imagining?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  353. So that was the closing statement?

    Nothing like interrupting the candidate’s closing statement, Candy.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  354. It was a popularity contest to win Candy’s approval, and Obama was predestined to win.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  355. I don’t think people learned anything new. It comes down to do you want government to pat you on the head and let it do everything for you vs. doing things on your own.

    Anyone who is actually planning to vote has already decided.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  356. Obama did do better, so what? He was awake this time…again so what? He still is pie in the sky and sez nothing of substance other than I’ll get to it

    Angelo (234a2b)

  357. ropelight

    too many lies by Obama – he needed a strong win – at best – he has a mild loss – which is going to get bigger as you said under fact checking

    EPWJ (2925ff)

  358. I told you that Romney should have pre-empted the 47 percent crap.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  359. Romney did great. The attacks were expected. His counterattacks succeeded.

    Obama was hackneyed Obama cliche.

    Candy exceeded expectations.

    nk (875f57)

  360. Romney won. Clearly.

    Joseph D (beda48)

  361. Bret Baier is now reading the Obama quote.

    And making the point that Obama refused to call it terrorism, and referred to the video a million times.

    ROMNEY is the person who should have done all that.

    He should have KNOWN all this.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  362. First fact check – obama lied about the rose garden speech

    going to hurt

    EPWJ (2925ff)

  363. MSNBC gave it STRONGLY to Obama. But then, MSNBC also claimed that Romney was snipping at the moderator and that Romney was the one pushing the clock and trying to walk over the moderator…

    Personally, I think it was about equal.

    ChimpZilla (4cbcb0)

  364. I meant BO did better than 1st debate, not that he did better than Mitt tonite

    Angelo (234a2b)

  365. “Romney aaas s not answering about wage differentials between here and China.”

    Sammy – As bad as Obama ducked reduced Libya security question?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  366. Crissy Mathews just claimed that there was a protest of Mohammed video in Benghazi.

    JD (318f81)

  367. In the end, Obama is still stuck with his record, Hume points out.

    Indeed.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  368. The time breakdown:

    Obama 3 minutes more than Romney.

    That was obvious.

    Thanks, Candy.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  369. Do people think Obama did better because he was a bigger asshole, like Biden was, than the first time?

    Is rudeness now the gold standard for effectiveness?

    Patterico (8b3905)

  370. It’s going to be played as a Obama win, but at best it might be a draw. I’m in the tank for Romney, though.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  371. Pat

    Romney looked like he was searching for something – I think he missed his opportunity but he did set it up for fact checking

    People are more concerned about the economy

    EPWJ (2925ff)

  372. Yes, if you thought it was an act of terror, why send out Rice to say video video video?

    But Romney didn’t know he had said it.

    Hume is exactly right.

    ARG.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  373. Well, Patterico, we did built up expectations that Candy would not be sweet. We’re we wrong?

    nk (875f57)

  374. #371 He was better because he engaged to some degree; first time he skated, was bored and was imperious

    Angelo (234a2b)

  375. Obama is of weak character and is used to having minions do his fighting; he is learning

    Angelo (234a2b)

  376. I got s*** the last time for saying Obama won, on posture, demeanor, and reasonance of voice. This time, Romney matched him on all three and beat him on substance.

    nk (875f57)

  377. Interesting Fox news analysis gal sez both were bullies and women aren’t pleased with either

    Angelo (234a2b)

  378. Nothing men do pleases women, Angelo.

    Some things pleasure them.

    nk (875f57)

  379. You are not nk?

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  380. Obama found his inner Biden.

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  381. You guys are just whiners. Obama does better you blame the moderator, Romney wins the media is unbiased.

    The Emperor (209fdf)

  382. Obama and the moderator won by a hair?

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  383. But does help from the moderator really pay off?

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  384. I don’t think anyone changed their mind based on this debate. I think very few of the people that asked questions were actually undecided. I voted for you in 2008 and now I want to vote for you again, make me feel good about that. Bush!!!!!

    JD (318f81)

  385. NK, oh yeah….If Romney wins I hope I still have a marriage….partially, not wholly said in jest

    Angelo (234a2b)

  386. Bret Baier is now reading the Obama quote.

    And making the point that Obama refused to call it terrorism, and referred to the video a million times.

    ROMNEY is the person who should have done all that.

    He should have KNOWN all this.

    More to the point, Crowley shouldn’t have interjected falsehoods into the debate. SHe owes Romney an on-air apology and tonight.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  387. Who’s whining? Obama did do better. He could not have done worse than last time. That doesn’t mean he won unless you believe that low expectations elevate soft ideas.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  388. Obama was better than the last debate. Mitt still won.

    Icy (172dc7)

  389. #383, Obama according to what I am reading did not win. Romney similar to Ryan — 5-10 point win.

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  390. You guys are just whiners. Obama does better you blame the moderator, Romney wins the media is unbiased.

    You have an unfailing ability to be flat out wrong.

    JD (318f81)

  391. Winner: Romney.
    2nd: Obama.
    Honorable Mentions: Crowley, because she wasn’t as bad as Raddatz, and “meeting coffins” the new standard for presidentiality, I guess.

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  392. Krauthammer responds to the women/bully thing. “Men love this stuff”, “Frazier Ali again”

    Angelo (234a2b)

  393. Who ever started the idea that government spending is an “investment” needs to be hit off the head with a very hard object repeatedly until he or she stops breathing.

    I first started hearing that garbage during the Clinton Administration. Perhaps it dates back farther, but I would venture to guess that Clinton popularized it.

    JVW (f5695c)

  394. ROMNEY is the person who should have done all that.

    He should have KNOWN all this.

    More to the point, Crowley shouldn’t have interjected falsehoods into the debate. SHe owes Romney an on-air apology and tonight.

    Comment by Kevin M

    All true, but Romney did point out that 0bama’s on the record with another lie about Libya and his role.

    Colonel Haiku (c57a06)

  395. I am out of here. G’night.

    Felipe (3243af)

  396. Crowley was a disaster. From her ill fitting and unflattering blazer to her absolute shameless bias leading her moderating performance. I actually found myself completely distracted by her interruptions, uneven interjections, and especially her handing the president gift-wrapped setups.

    Dana (292dcf)

  397. Yes, if you thought it was an act of terror, why send out Rice to say video video video?

    But Romney didn’t know he had said it.

    He had just started talking about that when Crowley cut him off.

    Colonel Haiku (c57a06)

  398. CNN seems to be baking the results….

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  399. @jd, who won?

    The Emperor (6f94ec)

  400. Crowley justified all the concerns about her as moderator. She cut Romney off repeatedly after Obama lied and even argued Obama’s point about the Benghazi scandal. She told Romney that Obama had said the attack was terrorism on the 12th when that is not true.

    Mike K (326cba)

  401. #401 Crowley did not help the President with her partisan crap … we will see however.

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  402. m her ill fitting and unflattering blazer

    It took me fifty years to realize that women notice such things. 😉

    nk (875f57)

  403. #402 All points that can be addressed next week.

    Point is if FP is important and you are undecided — next week is for Romney to shine.

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  404. The transcript from the Rose Garden is available. He references the denigration fo Mohammed in the YouTube video in the 4th paragraph, act of terror in the 10th.

    JD (318f81)

  405. 381.You are not nk?

    Comment by AZ Bob — 10/16/2012 @ 7:55 pm

    I think I am. But why do you ask?

    nk (875f57)

  406. Luntz pointing out what it seems. Obama talking BS and attacking.

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  407. nk, that’s what we notice first.

    btw,

    CBS Obama won the debate 37-30 overall, but Romney won on the economy by 65-34.

    Dana (292dcf)

  408. These undecideds are not as stupid as I thought.

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  409. @Chimperor/lovie – Obama did better than last time, which is like saying someone is smarter than you. I think that nobody changed their mind based on tonight, and worst case scenario, it was a draw.

    JD (318f81)

  410. Althouse: ‘9:19: Romney, in command, questions Obama about what he said the day after the attack in the Rose Garden. “You said it was an act of terror?” Romney asks twice. After the first time, Obama says “That’s what I said.” After the second time, Romney gives him a penetrating look. There’s a pause. Romney raises his eyebrows in a way that seems to repeat the question again. “It was not a spontaneous demonstration? Is that what your saying?” Obama bows his head. His eyes are closed. Obama looks up and with a little smile says: “Please proceed Governor.” Romney gestures with his hand. “I wanted to make sure we get that for the record, because it took the President 14 days before he called the attack in Benghazi and act of terror.” Obama says “Get the transcript,” and Crowley helps Obama by saying “He did in fact, sir… He did in fact call it an act of terror. It did as well take 2 weeks or so for the whole idea of there being a riot out there about this tape to come out, you’re correct about that.” Jeez, Crowley is way overparticipating! And the audience applauds her!’

    Colonel Haiku (c57a06)

  411. Luntz putting Obama to bed.

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  412. Althouse: “Crowley helps Obama by saying ‘He did in fact, sir… He did in fact call it an act of terror.'”

    For 10 days Obama and his team said the death of the Ambassador and three more Americans was a result of a natural and probably reaction to a video.

    Crowley owes the country an apology. But I will settle for never having to hear her voice again.

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  413. If only voting out Obama would include these idiots like Crowley.

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  414. Fact checking: Obama wrong on increased drilling on both private and Fed lands

    Angelo (234a2b)

  415. I never paid attention until my daughter got into an age of picking her own clothes. (Punk-goth, right now.)

    nk (875f57)

  416. #414 Crowley perfectly illustrates what Conservatives have been saying for a long time. She jumped to the conclusion she wanted — avoided facts. She will get roasted for that lie.

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  417. I am looking at Drudge and the picture of Obama leaning and smirking at Romney. And I realized:

    Obama found his inner Biden.

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  418. Crowley actually believes it when a political hack like Adm Crapper Clapper falls on his sword. Everyone knew it was a coordinated attack within the first week. Except those who were too busy campaigning in Vegas, I guess.

    See this Gingrich takedown of reporters who think that Clapper was stating facts (circa 3:20-4:00)

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  419. On Benghazi Romney missed an opportunity to nail the president. He just focused on the nuances of what the president said at the rose garden. Missed chance. That was the scariest moment for the Dems but he let it slip away..

    The Emperor (6f94ec)

  420. #421 Not true, 180 degrees other way.

    All this does is put this issue front and center for 1 week till next week.

    More people will learn about the lies this coming week than would have during this debate.

    Every channel will be talking it. And more sunlight, the worse it gets for the lie.

    Rodney King's Spirit (9ce6d4)

  421. 419.I am looking at Drudge and the picture of Obama leaning and smirking at Romney. And I realized:

    Obama found his inner Biden

    It’s the Alinsky method of acting, AZ Bob.

    nk (875f57)

  422. _________________________________________

    I got s*** the last time for saying Obama won, on posture, demeanor, and reasonance of voice. This time, Romney matched him on all three and beat him on substance.

    Honorable Mentions: Crowley, because she wasn’t as bad as Raddatz

    Crowley was a disaster.

    That makes me think of this…

    wikipedia: The Rashomon effect is the effect of the subjectivity of perception on recollection, by which observers of an event are able to produce substantially different but equally plausible accounts of it.

    It is named for Akira Kurosawa’s film Rashomon, in which a crime witnessed by four individuals is described in four mutually contradictory ways.

    And the following isn’t a case of “Rashomon.” It’s a matter of pure, unadulterated BS.

    Politico.com: “You know, Barack doesn’t have a big ego,” Michelle Obama said in an excerpt from an interview with CNN that aired Tuesday.

    “You see this in, you know, how he leads the country,” the first lady said, staying on message in an interview taped weeks ago to air before debate coverage. “I mean, he is very open to other people’s opinions. And he’s always willing to compromise and he’s always, always listening….”

    LOL. We have 2 con artists in the White House. So when I watched Obama tonight, or on any other occasion, I can’t help but think of a smooth-talking salesman trying to unload used cars, aluminum siding, or the Brooklyn Bridge.

    Mark (f474e0)

  423. It did as well take 2 weeks or so for the whole idea of there being a riot out there about this tape to come out, you’re correct about that.

    Precisely the opposite. It was two weeks before that idea was DROPPED.

    It “came out” immediately.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  424. First poll is out, Obama wins 46 to Romney 39! The same people who gave Romney the advantage last two weeks.

    The Emperor (6f94ec)

  425. I wouldn’t worry too much about the whole missed opportunity on Benghazi. The next debate is supposed to be centered on foreign policy — right? — so the topic will again come to the forefront.

    JVW (f5695c)

  426. I think Romney’s biggest liability is his inconsistencies and flip-flopping. America does not trust a candidate that allows himself to be labelled a flip-flopper. That is the problem with Mitt Romney. Who is the real Mitt Romney??

    The Emperor (6f94ec)

  427. Chimperor is on his knees at the altar of Teh One.

    JD (318f81)

  428. First pole out was likely Chris Matthews.

    nk (875f57)

  429. Could have been Anderson Cooper.

    nk (875f57)

  430. Which bacterium is lovie? C. diff or c. collia?

    nk (875f57)

  431. 326 SF: You know, people in China now are smuggling money out of the country.

    348. Comment by EPWJ — 10/16/2012 @ 7:38 pm

    Okay Sammy, first – what money – second – a source

    Their own money. There are capital controls, but hey are relatively easy to get around, although the occasional unfortunate person can get a 6 year prison term for arranging that.

    The money coming out seems to be increasing, probably I would say, because of the coming change in government leadership. Of course the projected devaluation of the currency is another reason.

    The source is a front article in today’s (Tuesday October 16, 2012) Wall Street Journal.

    In Reversal, Cash Leaks Out of China

    …China hasn’t reported on capital inflows and outflows since last year, but it is possible to gauge more recent flows using trade data, foreign-exchange reserves numbers released Saturday and other economic statistics. A Wall Street Journal analysis of that data suggests that in the 12 months through September, about $225 billion flowed out of China, equivalent to about 3% of the nation’s economic output last year…..

    …China officially maintains a closed capital account, meaning it restricts the ability of individuals and businesses to move money across its borders. Chinese individuals aren’t allowed to move more than $50,000 per year out of the country. Chinese companies can exchange yuan for foreign currencies only for approved business purposes, such as paying for imports or approved foreign investments.

    In reality, the closed system has become more porous and the rules are routinely ignored…..

    …To gauge the size of the outflow, the Journal compared the change in the country’s foreign-exchange reserves with changes in the main components that cause reserves to rise and fall: the trade surplus, foreign direct investment, interest on foreign assets and movements in exchange rates.

    The two sides of the equation should match. If foreign-exchange reserves increase more than the sum of the components, it suggests extra cash is flowing into China. If reserves increase less, or even fall, it means money is somehow getting out…..

    …Because the $225 billion figure is derived from broad economic statistics, it is impossible to say how much of the outflow is legitimate personal and corporate transactions and how much was moved illegally or was the product of illegal activities.

    A sprawling industry has developed to help Chinese get money out. Services range from the money-transfer agents to private jets that ferry money by customs officials unmolested, according to lawyers and brokers who help Chinese investors find investments abroad. Sometimes bank transfers by companies hide personal money being moved out, these people say. Another method is to piggyback personal cash atop legitimate export and import transactions, at times by using fake invoices, they say. People even carry bags of cash across the border….

    [Also, sometimes people have friends transfer money]

    …Hong Kong, although part of China, has a separate financial system and currency—and no restrictions on outbound capital. Consequently, there are restrictions on mainland Chinese moving money to Hong Kong.

    One legal way that some elite Chinese have gotten money offshore is by taking their companies public in Hong Kong, then selling shares. Since 2005, 350 mainland companies have raised more than US$150 billion in Hong Kong, according to data provider Dealogic. Company owners can accomplish the same thing by listing in New York or Singapore….

    ….A recent decision by Hong Kong’s highest court highlighted the territory’s role as a facilitator for mainland money to escape. Yan Suiling, a wealthy Amway saleswoman, insurance agent and restaurateur in the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou, moved $2 million via a money-transfer agent from the mainland to Hong Kong between 2007 and 2009, according to case records and lawyers involved with the case. She used the money to invest in Hong Kong’s stock market.

    Ms. Yan got into trouble when a check deposited in her Hong Kong account in one of the transactions included proceeds that Hong Kong authorities traced to a $1 million mortgage fraud by someone else. Despite having no involvement in the mortgage fraud, she was convicted in a Hong Kong court of money laundering and served 18 months in prison.

    On appeal, her lawyers argued that she thought the money was part of a money transfer and couldn’t be expected to know it had come from the mortgage fraud. While such transfers are against the rules on the mainland, they are permitted in free-market-oriented Hong Kong. Her lawyers declined to comment, and Ms. Yan didn’t respond to a request for comment.

    Hong Kong’s Court of Final Appeal agreed and cleared her record. The court said it was “not surprising” that she would “find it necessary” to use a money-transfer agent since she had to evade the mainland’s currency regulations in order to invest in Hong Kong’s stock market.

    Sammy Finkelman (762ee4)

  432. First poll is out, Obama wins 46 to Romney 39! The same people who gave Romney the advantage last two weeks.

    Where are you seeing that? The only immediate debate results I can find are at CBS, which has Obama at 37%, Romney at 30%, and 33% declaring it a tie. I doubt that this sort of breakdown will do much to improve Obama’s overall standing, especially with the large number who viewed the debate as a tie.

    JVW (f5695c)

  433. I think Romney won by a slim margin. At very best a tie. Obama needed to crush Romney to stop the bleeding. He did not accomplish it. Romney will continue to see his lead widen.

    Dennis D (d91acc)

  434. With McCain you knew where he stood. So also Bush. But where does Romney stand on most of the issues? He just says anything that can get him votes and when he’s done with that he dumps it. In a private meeting with donors he says he is not interested in the 47 percent who are victims, non tax payers and people who feel entitled. After trying to defend what he said he does a 360 and says it was totally wrong. Now he says he will work for the 100 percent.

    The Emperor (6f94ec)

  435. Crowley comes semi-clean on her error…

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/333916.php

    Colonel Haiku (c57a06)

  436. Who made it a law that only the media can serve as moderators? Romney or the next Republican campaign heads should think out of the box. There are a host of more neutral choices found among other fields, starting with college debate coaches/judges. Or, how about lawyers or judges?

    Ghost_on_the_Wind (a0e0c9)

  437. Wimperor… we know where Obama will be standing come January 21st… in the unemployment line to get a taste of his own medicine…

    Colonel Haiku (c57a06)

  438. _____________________________________________

    With McCain you knew where he stood. So also Bush. But where does Romney stand on most of the issues

    I can understand a conservative being apprehensive about that — about his squishiness — but a liberal? After all, Romney’s history is far closer to the center — intertwined with things like his stint as governor of uber-blue Massachusetts — compared with the ultra-liberal background of Obama.

    That’s why I think people who have been so devoted to President “Goddamn America” truly are hard-core liberals, if not knee-jerk leftists. Because they know that in spite of his and his clique’s limousine liberalism, he’s still someone they want to bond with. He’s their philosophical soul brother.

    Mark (f474e0)

  439. “Weird CNN poll results: Obama wins 46-39. But Romney 58-40 on economy; 51-44 taxes; 49-46 healthcare; 59-36 on deficit. Vote for? Tied 25-25″

    – Charles CW Cooke

    Colonel Haiku (c57a06)

  440. Yeah, Emperor, Romney really needs a catchy slogan like “hope and change” to let the American people know where he really stands.

    Or better yet, he should do like Obama did four year ago and make very specific promises: “I’ll close Guantanamo,” “I won’t raise taxes on the middle class,” “I’ll cut the annual deficit in half by 2012,” “I’ll have C-SPAN televise the negotiations for our health care bill so that it is all done in the light of day.”

    And I love when liberals play their usual game of “this year’s Republican candidate is way more extreme than those past Republican candidates who we said were positively Francoian in their outlook.” I’m pleased that you appreciate the ideological clarity of Bush and McCain.

    JVW (f5695c)

  441. @col haiku.
    Name calling and insults, that’s all you got. Angry little minion..

    The Emperor (6f94ec)

  442. I didn’t watch it, but I turned on the radio a minute ago and heard Hewitt mentioning that Crowley has admitted being wrong, as the Colonel points out, and one opinion that this will all turn out to Romney’s good by bringing more discussion to it in the coming days as well as an obvious example of moderator bias.

    In a private meeting with donors he says he is not interested in the 47 percent who are victims, non tax payers and people who feel entitled.
    Are you being serious? Try that somewhere else where people are stupid and uninformed. Romney never said he was “uninterested in the 47%”, but that there were 47% who would never be persuaded to vote for him because of their not paying taxes. Yes, the number was wrong and it may have sounded bad, but he was talking about campaign strategy for getting votes, not about who he “cared about governing”. Please- get informed or honest before you come back, whichever one it is.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  443. “Weird CNN poll results: Obama wins 46-39. But Romney 58-40 on economy; 51-44 taxes; 49-46 healthcare; 59-36 on deficit. Vote for? Tied 25-25.″

    Not so weird. We’ve been seeing this for the past four years: people really want to like Obama, so even when he falls short they give him the benefit of the doubt. The fact that he actually remained awake for the debate tonight probably led some to award him the overall victory, kind of in the spirit of the “every kid gets a trophy” phenomenon.

    JVW (f5695c)

  444. have some gubmint cheese with that whine, wimperor…

    Colonel Haiku (c57a06)

  445. As long as any media people serve as a moderator, they are going to treat presidential debates just like another interview. Hence, they lack any sense of boundaries forbidding the their habits of asking unfair questions and giving less time to candidates that they oppose. They lack any understanding of real debate principles. Oh heck, they lack any real professionalism whatsoever.

    But other people do.

    Ghost_on_the_Wind (a0e0c9)

  446. I’m going back and watching the Tivoed beginning of the debate and it’s just as I remember it from the radio. On the energy question, Crowley let Obama speak three times while Romney spoke only twice. When Romney tried to speak a third time, she talked over him. Then Obama whined about being interrupted.

    Waaaaah.

    Absolutely enraging.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  447. Comment by AZ Bob — 10/16/2012 @ 8:15 pm

    For 10 days Obama and his team said the death of the Ambassador and three more Americans was a result of a natural and probably reaction to a video.

    They never said it was natural and expected. Just the opposite. The problem is they linked the attack on Benghazi to the video and to a supposed demonstration in Benghazi.

    Sammy Finkelman (762ee4)

  448. But where does Romney stand on most of the issues?

    After nearly 4 years of Obama we see where he stands, and even if Romney was standing on his head in a field of manure his position would be better than Obama’s on about everything.
    Do we want more national debt- No
    Do we want no budgets let alone reasonable ones- No
    Do we want the US to be has-beens on the world stage and leave it to tyrants- No
    Do we want outright lies from the WH for political gain- No

    Even if we get all of those things we don’t want, Romney will still be better than Obama. Obama couldn’t hurt America any more than he has if he was trying.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  449. Comment by AZ Bob — 10/16/2012 @ 8:15 pm

    Althouse: “Crowley helps Obama by saying ‘He did in fact, sir… He did in fact call it an act of terr

    First question here is: How was Crowley so sure?

    She said look at the transcript. Sounds like she had been reading the transcript before. The only reason to study that right before the debate was that the Obama campaign had called her attention to it!!

    Sammy Finkelman (762ee4)

  450. Crowley was wrong and has had to admit it.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  451. Romney never said he was “uninterested in the 47%”, but that there were 47% who would never be persuaded to vote for him because of their not paying taxes.

    I think Romney’s mistake here was to conflate two different things. Yes, 47% of us don’t pay Federal income tax, but as was pointed out a lot of people in that group vote Republican. The other place in which 47% comes in is that it is probably the baseline for Obama’s share of the vote. No matter what happens, Obama can count on 47% of the voters in November casting a ballot for him. This includes wealthy liberals, a strong majority of public employees, young and unmarried urban dwellers, minorities, and the rest of the Democrat coalition. Romney, ironically enough, probably also has a baseline of 47% consisting of social conservatives, married suburbanites, people who regularly attend religious services, etc. This means that for the most part the entire election comes down to about 6% of the voters who are the true undecideds.

    I know this is anecdotal and a very small sample size, but I am heartened to hear some of my friends who voted for Obama in 2008 say they will vote for Romney this time around. I haven’t heard anyone tell me they voted for McCain four years ago but would be switching to Obama this year.

    JVW (f5695c)

  452. I always enjoy the trolls and mobies calling Romney a flip-flopper. Notice how they claim that flip-flopping dooms a candidate.

    Um. How many campaign promises has Obama followed through on? I seem to remember that Gitmo was going to be closed within one year, and rendition not being used again.

    Whoops!

    And the funny part is watching the trolls and mobies loudly proclaim their true motto as alphabetists:

    “That’s different!”

    Complete with petulant foot stomp.

    Simon Jester (52ca2e)

  453. Luntz focus group of undecideds highly impressed with Romney tonight. With Obama? Not so much. Said he was angry and did not answer questions. I did not see or hear the debate so trying to catch up.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/fox-debate-focus-group-devolves-into-frank-luntz-calling-participant-ruth-bader-ginsburg-and-a-bullsh-on-live-tv/

    elissa (6574bb)

  454. #448: Patterico, Teh Won is their little hothouse orchid, to be protected always.

    And that has a bad, bad effect on the hothouse flower!

    Simon Jester (52ca2e)

  455. Now, Crowley was correct (and Romney got all confused because this didn’t fit the narrative he had gotten)

    Obama really had indeed called it an act of terror on Sept. 12.

    The Wall Street Journal of Sept. 29-30, 2012 indeed has in its list of statements: (page A10)

    No act of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation.

    – President Barack Obama, Sept 12.

    On NBC I think it is Chuck Todd who pointed out that other things were said there – it was linked to the video. He sounded like he felt Obama’s answer was besides the point – Romney missed some chances.

    Also on Sept 12: (New York Times, Friday Sept. 28, 2012 Page A10 also)

    We are working to determine the precise motivations and methods of those who carried out this assault. Some have thought to justify this vicious behavior, along with the protests that took place at our embassy in Cairo yesterday as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet

    – Hillary Rodham Clinton, Secretary of State.

    Notice BTW, here too, she separated the assault in Benghazi from the protest in Cairo – and if you read it carefully, you can see she’s not saying there was any protest in Benghazi!!

    It’s too early for us to make that judgment. I think — I know this is being investigated, and we’re working with the Libyan government to investigate the incident

    – Jay Carney, White House Press Secretary, responding to a question on whether the attack n Benghazi was premeditated.

    As everyone knows, as the week went on, the Administration (or the White House) became more certain this was not premeditated, and sent Susan Rice out to argue this to the public.

    So, for instance on THIS WEEK with George Stephanapolous she said:

    What this began as was a spontaneous, not a premeditated, response to what transpired in Cairo.

    Also:

    We believe that folks in Benghazi, a small number of people, came to the embassy to – or to the consulate rather – to replicate the sort of challenge that was posed in Cairo. And then, as that unfolded, it seems to have been hijacked, let us say, by some individual clusters of extremists who came with heavier weapons.

    – Susan E. Rice, American Ambassador to the U.N. on “This Week with George Stephanopolous” (Sunday Sept. 16, 2012)

    Sammy Finkelman (762ee4)

  456. As long as we agree to stay in the box, the left-wing candidates will be given an advantage. The solution has to be found outside the Media’s cage. There are thousands of better qualified debate moderators in this country. They actually know the rules and would stick with them out of sheer professionalism. Who said the only candidates for moderator could come from the media? We’ve let them box us into a corner with no options. Time to get out.

    Ghost_on_the_Wind (a0e0c9)

  457. Not to forget, most of those polled where Republicans yet they gave Obama the advantage.

    The Emperor (6f94ec)

  458. I think Romney’s mistake here was to conflate two different things.
    Comment by JVW — 10/16/2012 @ 9:19 pm

    I think that’s a good way of putting it, but however one takes it, it was not that he was “writing-off” 47% of Americans as not worthy of his concern.

    It seems like Romney did not blunder and Obama didn’t get away with too much, at least when including the debate aftermath. G’ night.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  459. On Libya, Crowley backed the President when he was wrong, as she has now admitted. Doesn’t matter at this point. The great comeback of the President is written in stone as far as the media is concerned.

    Election Day matters.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  460. Again, Emperor, can you please direct us to the source of your assertion so that we can all be educated on Obama’s awesomeness tonight?

    JVW (f5695c)

  461. JVW, I sure hope you have a lot of free time.

    Simon Jester (52ca2e)

  462. @col haiku.
    Name calling and insults, that’s all you got. Angry little minion..

    Comment by The Emperor — 10/16/2012 @ 9:07 pm

    Says the punk who called me a racist.

    SPQR (768505)

  463. 8. Fortunately I was tied up putting the squirt to bed.

    Sack o’ Candy really is hideous, eh? Nobody watches CNN anymore for cause.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  464. Polling at CBS and CNN has Willard winning all the issues, D*ckhead wins the beauty contest, most kissable.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  465. 451

    What a brilliant point. She was ready to twist a vague reference to Obama’s advantage.

    It is a lie nevertheless.

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  466. Outrageous, Crowley helped Obama lie.

    The incompetent debate commission needs to be disbanded given their lousy choices.

    SPQR (768505)

  467. Comment by MD in Philly — 10/16/2012 @ 9:19 pm

    Crowley was wrong and has had to admit it.

    Where was she wrong and when did she admit it?

    What was the context of Obama’s quoted words I found this piece of analysis by TIME Magazine:

    http://nation.time.com/2012/10/16/when-no-acts-of-terror-actually-means-this-act-of-terror/?iid=pf-main-mostpop2

    In Tuesday night’s second presidential debate, we also learned that President Obama isn’t beyond twisting what he said then to make him sound better now:

    Obama: The day after the attack, governor, I stood in the Rose Garden and I told the American people in the world that we are going to find out exactly what happened. That this was an act of terror and I also said that we’re going to hunt down those who committed this crime…

    Romney: I think interesting the president just said something which – which is that on the day after the attack he went into the Rose Garden and said that this was an act of terror.

    Obama: That’s what I said.

    Romney: You said in the Rose Garden the day after the attack, it was an act of terror? It was not a spontaneous demonstration, is that what you’re saying?

    Obama: Please proceed governor.

    Romney: I want to make sure we get that for the record because it took the President 14 days before he called the attack in Benghazi an act of terror.

    Obama: Get the transcript.

    So we did. According to that transcript, here’s what Obama said in the Rose Garden Sept. 12 at the end of his five-minute statement:

    As Americans, let us never, ever forget that our freedom is only sustained because there are people who are willing to fight for it, to stand up for it, and in some cases, lay down their lives for it. Our country is only as strong as the character of our people and the service of those both civilian and military who represent us around the globe. No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.

    Pretty weak reed.

    Read more: http://nation.time.com/2012/10/16/when-no-acts-of-terror-actually-means-this-act-of-terror/#ixzz29WlRW0DZ

    I think it’s fair to say President Obama is saying the four Americans were killed by an act of terror. But he’s not attributing it to a pre-existing terrorist group.

    Sammy Finkelman (762ee4)

  468. 469. Wrong again Samuel, go to bed. The rest of us are.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  469. On Sept. 12 President Obama did not say the murders of the four Americans waere acts of terror, but he did imply it.

    as for hunting them down, what he said was:

    And make no mistake, we will work with the Libyan government to bring to justice the killers who attacked our people.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/09/12/president-obama-discusses-attack-benghazi-libya

    This is still not a full transcript.

    Sammy Finkelman (762ee4)

  470. Sammy, Sammy, Sammy-
    The repeated story, the one we remember easiest because it was the one repeated by the admin and by the media reporting on what the admin said, was that there was a mob protest about the video and then an armed assault took place, and days later Obama was talking in front of the UN all about Muslims getting upset about offensive videos.

    That was all wrong and made up, whether or not he used the word “terror” or not in his intro remarks.

    I just had the thought that maybe Hillary “taking the responsibility” was an attempt to focus discussion on the attack itself and off of the false narrative afterwards, because while mistakes can be made, a mistake in judgement is after all more understandable than premeditated deceit and cover-up.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  471. Romney did try to follow up with the issue of the Secretary of State misrepresenting things on the Sunday shows, but Obama suddenly became very concerned about moving on so all these wonderful folks can have their questions answered.

    And Candy obligingly helped him dodge the bullet.

    But you know what? Obama did say he would be happy to have a longer discussion about this. And the third debate is foreign policy. And Candy’s decision to flap her gums on this issue ensures that the issue will be front and center.

    You’re going to get that longer discussion, Mr. Obama.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  472. For 10 days, Obama, Rice and their Chicago cronies said this was a response to a video.

    And the media went along with it.

    Is Finkelman denying recorded history?

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  473. I also saw Andrea Mitchell on NBC giving a fact check on the point where the two candidates flatly contradicted each other: Oil production on federal land. Romney said it went down and Obam said it went up.

    Turns out the statistic Romney used was for the difference between 2010 and 2011. Andrea Mitchell said production was cut because of the BP oil spill. With 2008 as baseline, there was indeed an increase by 2011, like President Obama said.

    Thoughts: What counts is the trend now.

    Now, the early increase was baked in when Obama got into office. The decrease in production from the BP oil spill didn’t have to happen. What really is important is what happened from 2011 to 2012, and NBC didn’t have any estimate for that.

    Sammy Finkelman (762ee4)

  474. Obama mentioned the video seven times at the UN.

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  475. In fact, after the BP oil disaster, the Obama administration imposed a moratorium on drilling that was overturned by a court – the court concluding that there was no evidence on which to base the moratorium, that it was arbitrary.

    SPQR (768505)

  476. Didn’t Andrea Mitchell also say that Baumgartner fell faster than the speed of light the other day? Another careful journalist?

    http://twitchy.com/2012/10/15/scienc-is-hard-andrea-mitchell-reports-that-fearless-felix-traveled-faster-than-speed-of-light/

    I guess I mean Journolist.

    Simon Jester (52ca2e)

  477. Comment by MD in Philly — 10/16/2012 @ 9:48 pm

    Sammy, Sammy, Sammy-

    The repeated story, the one we remember easiest because it was the one repeated by the admin and by the media reporting on what the admin said, was that there was a mob protest about the video and then an armed assault took place,

    But they only repeated that on Sunday Sept 16, when Ambassador to the United Nation Susan Rice went on all the Sunday morning talk shows.

    Back on September 12, they hadn’t been saying that.

    That’s what Romney missed.

    Sammy Finkelman (762ee4)

  478. Romney was pushed aside by Crowley the biased moderator. Romney was correct that Obama’s policy and subsequent spin have been false.

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  479. ______________________________________________

    Obama really had indeed called it an act of terror on Sept. 12.

    But coming from someone like him, from a person whose knee-jerk biases coddle “goddamn America” rhetoric, it’s not too cynical to guess that in his wonderful, beautiful heart, he’s yearning to ask — in a manner analogous to his Democrat predecessor wanting to ask what the “meaning of ‘is’ is” — what the meaning of “terror” is. IOW, terror triggered by a big meanie, party-pooper video (even an obscure one posted to Youtube) emanating from the US doesn’t seem quite so blatantly unfair, puzzling, unexpected, surprising, heartless, mindless and intolerant.

    This is from his speech in front of the United Nations on 9-24, 13 days after the attack on the American consulate, 12 days after his statement that Crowley was all too happy to point out:

    That is what we saw play out the last two weeks, as a crude and disgusting video sparked outrage throughout the Muslim world. I have made it clear that the United States government had nothing to do with this video, and I believe its message must be rejected by all who respect our common humanity. It is an insult not only to Muslims, but to America as well – for as the city outside these walls makes clear, we are a country that has welcomed people of every race and religion… We understand why people take offense to this video because millions of our citizens are among them.

    I know there are some who ask why we don’t just ban such a video. The answer is enshrined in our laws: our Constitution protects the right to practice free speech.

    ^ That he would inflate the importance of a big-whoop-de-doo video, and give its detractors more sympathy and attention than they deserve, speaks volumes about what makes Obama (ie, Jeremiah Wright’s buddy) tick.

    Mark (f474e0)

  480. “Back on September 12, they hadn’t been saying that.”

    Sammy – I believe Carney spouted that meme Sept. 14.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  481. 420. Crowley actually believes it when a political hack like Adm Crapper Clapper falls on his sword. Everyone knew it was a coordinated attack within the first week. Except those who were too busy campaigning in Vegas, I guess.

    See this Gingrich takedown of reporters who think that Clapper was stating facts (circa 3:20-4:00)

    Comment by Kevin M — 10/16/2012 @ 8:19 pm

    Dude. Please give me a break. I’m retired Navy. Don’t blame Clapper on us.

    He was a Lieutenant General in the USAF, k?

    It’s GEN Clapper, not ADM. Nuff said.

    I like you Kevin, but you keep calling this Clapper character an Admiral and that kind of s*** has got to stop.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  482. The Administration statements got less, not more, accurate with time.. Romney got utterly confused because he didn’t understand that. They hadn’t studied it closely.

    Obama citing what he said on Sept 12 was no proof or counter as to what was said on Sept 16.

    On Sept 12, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said it was too early to tell whether or not the attack in Benghazi was premeditated.

    On September 13 State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland (daughter of medical writer Sherwin Nuland BTW) said:

    We are very cautious about drawing any conclusions with regard to who the perpetrators were, what their motivations were, whether it was premeditated whether they had any external contacts, whether there was any link, until we have a chance to investigate, along with the Libyans.

    On Sept 14, Jay Carney said:

    We have no information to suggest this was a preplanned attack

    And on Sept 16, Susan Rice was saying:

    What this began as was a spontaneous, not a premeditated, response to what transpired in Cairo.

    A lot of sooper sekrit intelligence had poured in by that time, I think.

    Sammy Finkelman (762ee4)

  483. It seems readily apparent that Obama is concerned about his base.

    JD (318f81)

  484. Looks like the media will now say both guys lost because they were so “rancorous” or “nauseating” per Drudge headlines. Hardly! But it’s a way to throw it to Obama.

    It will only add to Romney’s momentum, though, as per Luntz’s group. It wasn’t a knockout but enough for voters to commit to Mitt!

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  485. KCAL just did a SWATTING story

    auntie fraud (2f38aa)

  486. “The Administration statements got less, not more, accurate with time.. Romney got utterly confused because he didn’t understand that.”

    Sammy – The cover up was intended to throw squid ink over the administration’s screw ups until after the election. The only confusion created tonight was Obama’s false attempt to claim he had provided clarity on Sept. 12 when he had in fact done anything but.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  487. KCAL just did a SWATTING story

    Yeah? The bit about LAPD saying someone is going to get killed? I would normally have linked that, but, you know, debate.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  488. What did they say on KCAL?

    Patterico (8b3905)

  489. Obama’s next excuse? Mormon Mafia to blame for Benghazi attack.

    Comment by SPQR — 10/16/2012 @ 10:16 pm

    That guy is a total f*cking loon.

    peedoffamerican (3cfc4a)

  490. Not you SPQR, the one at the link.

    peedoffamerican (3cfc4a)

  491. Please will someone EVER fact-check Obama’s tired “Bush’s tax cuts turned a surplus into a deficit”?

    The surplus was the result of some Congressional restraint and higher taxes, but it was mainly that they came at a time of a huge dot-com boom/bubble. The last years of the 90’s saw incredible stock gains and cap gains tax bills. But this ended with the dot-com crash of 2000, still on Clinton’s watch.

    Whether or not Bush had gotten his tax cuts, the surplus was done in 2001 (and more than done after 9-11). A good argument could be made that without the Bush tax cuts, 2001 would have been the start of a deep recession and even worse deficits.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  492. FWIW, I thought Romney did quite well and won or tied. Obama got a save on Benghazi, but next Monday is all foreign policy.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  493. Comment by SPQR — 10/16/2012 @ 9:56 pm
    And didn’t the Obama admin. ignore the court order about the Gulf moratorium?

    As far as the video meme, Romney wasn’t prepared for Obama to double down with an obfuscation. Honest men are sometimes not prepared to handle dishonesty- a kind of projection that is the mirror image of what the left does. next time is on foreign policy and it will likely get addressed again.

    Comment by Kevin M — 10/17/2012 @ 12:46 am
    Exactly about the dotcom bubble. I will listen to a Democrat talk about Bush economy problems only after the acknowledge the obvious.
    And I thought back in the day that I read that with the “Bush tax cuts” tax revenue was actually higher than previously projected. While that is beside the point for “fair redistribution” Obama, I think everyone but the hard left thinks in terms of more fed income means more ability to pay for things, which is good.

    I hear that Obama/Crowley got something in about the “47%” at the end when Romney was given no chance to respond. Such sly devils, aren’t they?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  494. That guy is a total f*cking loon.

    Note the top-level domain: .IR. PRESS TV is an Iranian TV channel that was recently taken off the air in the EU because of the sanctions. That explains everything.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  495. Kevin M., the Democrats keep lying about the mythical “Clinton surplus” – which even in its faux form was gone by FY2001 – Clinton’s last budget.

    SPQR (768505)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 3.1231 secs.