Patterico's Pontifications

10/12/2012

Irony Noted

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:37 am



Joe Biden, last night:

Governor Romney, before he knew the facts, before he even knew that our ambassador was killed, he was out making a political statement which was panned by the media around the world.

Stupid Romney, making a political statement about the attacks in the Middle East before learning the facts.

What you’re supposed to do is: learn the facts . . . and then lie about them.

Let that be a lesson to you, Governor!

Just follow that advice — and be a Democrat — and maybe you won’t get “panned by the media around the world” next time.

95 Responses to “Irony Noted”

  1. Romney’s statement was about the demonstrations in Cairo and the US consulate’s pathetic apology to the protestors who had torn down the American flag.

    His statement was made BEFORE we knew about the Benghazi attacks and the murders of four Americans.

    Turning a Cairo statement into a Benghazi statement is a huge lie right there.

    pa (4f643b)

  2. “What you’re supposed to do is: learn the facts . . . and then lie about them.”

    No doubt this is exactly what Romney’s handlers told him to do…actually, this is clearly the guiding principle behind his entire campaign.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  3. I think I get it – the opposition must never criticize the administration, because that would be political.

    Amphipolis (d3e04f)

  4. “I think I get it – the opposition must never criticize the administration, because that would be political.”

    You neither “think” nor “get it”….

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  5. P.Tillman, you keep calling Romney a liar but you can’t substantiate it. You keep linking to partisan blog posts that themselves are full of falsehood. We keep debunking your own lies.

    And yet you continue to troll, incompetently.

    SPQR (768505)

  6. “P.Tillman, you keep calling Romney a liar but you can’t substantiate it. ”

    LOL…you must have missed the two threads where I listed the MANY lies during the debate and in the campaign so far.

    And your claim of “debunking” is bunk…

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  7. The administration, by its own (lying) claim, didn’t know the facts for two whole weeks, yet did no end of talking.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  8. P.Tillman, you never refuted any of the debunking done. Your sources for “substantiation” do nothing but repeat administration falsehoods.

    Bottom line, more unemployed people today than in January of 2009, less middle class income than in 2009, twice the deficit, 50% more national debt, highest U6 in history.

    SPQR (768505)

  9. AhaHaHaHaaa!

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/49388260

    U3 drops 0.3%, huge drop in new claims and you’re all out buying vacation condos!

    Lets give Down Barry Low another four years to break double bogey.

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  10. Please do not feed the troll.

    Bar Sinister (664312)

  11. 2. If lying is an on-target knock against Romney its a head shot on Ogabe and BiteMe and everyone, Lib, Moderate or Inbred Knuckledragger, knows it.

    Ryan did exactly what he needed to, look better, smarter and more honest than Grampa Hair Plug.

    Game over. The foreign policy debate Oct. 22 is too late to change momentum even if BootBlack fogs a glass.

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  12. How is an administration that “didn’t know” for 2 weeks facts that most Americans knew almost immediately — that the co-ordinated attack with RPGs and mortars at widely separated sites in Benghazi wasn’t a spontaneous crowd reaction — how are they supposed to know when Iran has got a bomb? When it goes off in Tel Aviv.

    Biden makes the argument that a uranium bomb needs more than just weapons-grade uranium, that it is somehow a difficult problem. Untrue. Given a bit of time, no government interference, a few odd tools and the willingness to expose minions to danger, *I* could build a go*damn A-bomb, and it would work, too. Might have to go on a truck instead of a missile, but it would work just fine. High-school classes have designed working bombs and plans are available on the Internet. Can’t Biden use Google?

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  13. Vice President Joe The Joker Biden retorts,

    Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha…

    papertiger (e55ba0)

  14. This is a sensitive topic for many of us whose aging parents and grandparents are starting to show some mental slowdown, and we notice that they sometimes try to hide it by having unusual or inappropriate/unfiltered responses to events. We recognized it when we saw it on stage last night. The country needs to open its eyes and take Gramps Biden’s car keys away from him so he does not further damage himself, or others, or our nation.

    elissa (c21b1f)

  15. Can’t Biden use Google?

    I suspect Biden’s suffering from Kuru.

    Rob Crawford (e6f27f)

  16. A Bonus Point for Biden:

    At least he didn’t get into a physical confrontation such as what happened between Congressmen Howard Berman (D-Los Angeles), and Brad Sherman (D-Los Angeles),
    both running for the same Congressional Seat thanks to the “Top Two” redistricting in CA this year.
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/12/california-house-race-with-veteran-dems-turns-physical-during-debate/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+%28Internal+-+Politics+-+Text%29

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  17. Can’t Biden use Google?

    He misread it as “goggle”, and thought (I know that’s a stretch, but bear with me on this):
    Why would I need goggles, I don’t ride a motorcycle, I use Amtrak?

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  18. FL is now out of reach to Urkel, his only hope is to hold on to MI and PA, oh, and CT and WA, OR, …

    When the Undecideds turn on the news after Halloween to figure this all out and see Cutter barking at the moon, they’ll either vote Romney or not at all.

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  19. _______________________________________

    Gramps Biden’s car key

    For Biden, who will turn 70 years old in a few weeks, to still be of the left — to still be clinging to the political biases of his youth — is all by itself a sign of both mental impairment and immaturity.

    Mark (6d5e0d)

  20. I suspect Biden’s schtick didn’t play well with women voters. Romney has been gaining with them and the antics last night, I believe, will cause more to shift toward Romney.

    In considering Biden’s performance, he played like an old-school chauvinist pig. I’m disappointed Raddatz didn’t hit back and put him in his place when he started in on her. She had the power and control to do so and wimped out. What a shame. Her reluctance to do so showed me that she was willing to be belittled and condescended to by some angry, white man rather than assume her position as moderator and school him. I guess in some way, it’s just another variable in the left’s war on women.

    Dana (292dcf)

  21. ___________________________________________

    willing to be belittled and condescended to by some angry, white man

    The guy asking questions of Joe “FDR-gave-talks-on-TV” Biden back in 1988 doesn’t seem much less reluctant than Raddatz in 2012:

    Biden in test of IQs

    ^ That someone as cruddy as Biden waltzed straight into the vice presidency without facing the media glare directed at Sarah Palin in 2008 is another illustration of why corruption — various forms of it — is more likely to flourish when politicians of the left, surrounded by sycophants throughout the MSM and talking-heads academia, are running things.

    Hello, city of Detroit, hello, city of Washington DC, hello, city of Chicago, city of typical-urban-USA-mess!

    Mark (6d5e0d)

  22. Indeed, Mark, it was and is nothing short of astonishing that a brain damaged moron like Biden is treated seriously by the media.

    SPQR (768505)

  23. 21. Like Judge Napolitano says, Jacka$$.

    But then DE can’t look its horsies in the mouth.

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  24. Hard to conceive of a more obvious lie than Biden’s claim that he voted against both the Afghan and Iraq wars.

    radar (3a664a)

  25. radar, it is the kind of stupid lie we’ve come to expect from Obama and Biden.

    SPQR (97627e)

  26. Schadenfreude, ME will give up at least one EV to R&R.

    NM is gone, WI still has the capitalists behind 3 but seriously they will win by 50K even if kid’s start eating their school lunches.

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  27. A conservative path to the victory for R&R in graphic form:

    http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/10/poll-romney-leads-obama-in-maine-congressional-district-138207.html

    Yeah people still have to have gas in the car and find their polling station, but really, its about over.

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  28. No doubt this is exactly what Romney’s handlers told him to do…actually, this is clearly the guiding principle behind his entire campaign.
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/12/2012 @ 8:00 am

    — WHAT did Romney say in his statement that was wrong?
    Go!

    Icy (679f68)

  29. 27. Sorry, after all these years Bill G still messes me over:

    http://minx.cc/?post=333751

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  30. P. Tillman is a troll because his screen name is specifically designed to annoy and infuriate his opponents while dishonoring a good man’s memory.

    Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b)

  31. P. Tillman is a troll because his comments are full of dishonest blather, logical fallacies, ad homs, insults and cut-and-paste nonsense.

    Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b)

  32. P. Tillman is a troll because he labels as lies honest policy differences and aggressively presumes bad faith on the part of his opponents.

    Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b)

  33. P. Tillman is a troll because his goal is to shut down discussion through the exercise of the heckler’s veto.

    Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b)

  34. To echo Stevan Hyaes-in Benghazi the intelligence community had NO IDEA about an organized attack. What a bunch of dopes. On Iran the same intelligence communuity will know EXACTLY THE MOMENT

    Bugg (234f77)

  35. To echo Stevan Hyaes-in Benghazi the intelligence community had NO IDEA about an organized attack. What a bunch of dopes. On Iran the same intelligence communuity will know EXACTLY THE MOMENT

    Bugg (234f77)

  36. that Iran has a nuke.

    Bugg (234f77)

  37. Well the analysts who intercepted the messages between AQIM, and Ansar Al Sharia, did, as did the ones who figured out Abu Ahmed was involved.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  38. When Joe was looking off into space and grinning and chortling and shucking and jiving last night he was probably just reliving/channeling his amusement at the super soaker water gun fights he hosts for pols and media at his residence each summer. Hopefully, this past summer’s super soaker fest will be the last one held at the Naval Observatory for a long while.

    elissa (c21b1f)

  39. gary–those Ace tweets are gems!

    elissa (c21b1f)

  40. I like how MN is still colored blue in most EV maps as tho safe.

    Sure its a liberal Purple bastion and no polling of any regard is being done but I bet here and now R&R’s margin is over the few thousand required for automatic recount.

    The only popular Dim candidate, Klobuchar, is quite safe. A voter photo-ID and marriage definition constitutional amendment referenda may up Dhimmi turnout but I don’t see it helping Sucks Wind.

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  41. This was my take: Raddatz was totally on Biden’s side. First question, she gave him the “massive intelligence” answer right in her question. Everyone knows it was not an intelligence failure! Then she cut off Ryan’s rebuttal and went on to the supposed gaffe of Romney’s early comment on the fiasco.

    In the tank.

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  42. 41. We also hear Ogabe is down in a suburban Cook Cty. district.

    Indies have been given no reason whatever to trust either of these tape worms.

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  43. Oh, and the lowest point of the debate, of any debate, was Biden dragging his dead wife and child out of the grave to elicit sympathy.

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  44. Patricia–Dr. Jill must be soooo sick of that.

    elissa (c21b1f)

  45. 43. Noonan thought she did and excellent job and would not deserve criticism.

    Well interrupting Ryan 32 times might be sufficient to kept the Left carrion pickers off her bones.

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  46. keep the Left’s*

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  47. While we’re on the subject of fools:

    http://www.jammiewf.com/2012/eu-wins-nobel-peace-prize/

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  48. Oh, Peggy!

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  49. P. Tillman,

    Brother, you’re displaying that same bristling anger that Vice President Hair Plugs was dishing out last nite.

    If you left wing guys are so smart, then why do you need other people’s money ?
    Go make your own money.

    Grow up, and stop mooching off of other people.

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  50. Next TBTF bailout identified:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-12/jpm-doubles-exposure-european-periphery-one-quarter

    Dimon was the guy just yesterday complaining about SEC actually covering its butt biting his. And the guy a month back who lost $8 Billion hedging a hedge. The guy who illegally took possession of half of MFGlobal’s losses post-bancruptcy.

    Maybe he should just take his stock options and disappear.

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  51. I knew there was a reason the Feds bought that high security prison in IL.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-12/issa-wants-congressional-hearing-bls-data

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  52. Comment by narciso — 10/12/2012 @ 10:29 am

    Most likely the lads/laddies over at NoSuchAgency!

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  53. Oh, and the lowest point of the debate, of any debate, was Biden dragging his dead wife and child out of the grave to elicit sympathy.

    In 1992, Clinton used his whole dysfunctional childhood to elicit sympathy. P.J. O’Rourke described it as “having a childhood that would take up a whole week of episodes of Oprah.” Al Gore reassured the auto industry that all the anti-combustion engine stuff in “Earth in the Balance” was only included because he was emotionally fragile after his son’s car accident.

    When Ted Kennedy was challenged by Romney in 1994, he shamelessly evoked his murdered brothers as a “sacrifice” the Kennedy family had given to political service.

    In 1996 Al Gore told us that the only reason he boasted on the campaign trail about harvesting tobacco as a youth was because he was “in denial” over his sister’s death from lung cancer.

    You probably remember the 2002 Paul Wellstone Memorial Service/Pep Rally.

    Obama loved to relay the story about how the unfeeling insurance company hassled his dying mom over her coverage, a claim that was later found to be almost entirely bogus.

    The reality is that liberals love to wallow in their personal tragedy if it helps them drum up votes. No doubt the lefties here will be able to find examples of conservatives who milk their own sob stories, but for sheer emotional manipulation you simply can’t touch the left. It’s all they have to go on now that their ideology has failed so badly.

    JVW (f5695c)

  54. P Tillman 4 –

    The question is not whether the charge has a political motivation. The opposition is expected to criticize, that’s what oppositions do.

    The question is whether the charge is TRUE.

    Amphipolis (d3e04f)

  55. Comment by gary gulrud — 10/12/2012 @ 11:33 am

    Where can I get an I heart Issa t-shirt?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  56. If you left wing guys are so smart, then why do you need other people’s money ?
    Go make your own money.

    You don’t understand — it’s not about the money. It’s about the power; it’s about living off the labor of other people.

    Rob Crawford (e6f27f)

  57. Obama/Biden is just playing to the paymasters now:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2012/10/12/surveyusa-poll-shows-virtual-tie-in-ohio/

    Throwing State and the CIA under the bus? Not a plan with a lot of upside. Chicago is tough but not invulnerable.

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  58. P.Tillman, you keep calling Romney a liar but you can’t substantiate it. ”

    LOL…you must have missed the two threads where I listed the MANY lies during the debate and in the campaign so far.

    And your claim of “debunking” is bunk…

    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/12/2012

    Tillman – you listed the “lies” as posted via ThinkProgress. Out of the 60+ claimed lies that think progress listed, approximately 1.2 were differences of opinion, the other half of claimed lies, were factual statements, which thinkprogress claimed were lies because the facts made their candidate look bad.

    Joe-Dallas (ea8609)

  59. This is an example of one of Romney-Ryan’s “lies” from one of his links:

    At the same event, Romney argued, “Under the president’s plan, [Medicare] goes bankrupt… Under the plan I propose, it is solvent.”

    That’s the exact opposite of reality. Obama’s policy strengthens Medicare’s finances, and under Romney’s plan, the system would be closer to insolvency faster.

    If you click on the link at the blog it goes to Rachel Maddow’s blog site which does not in any way demonstrate that Ryan’s lying.

    http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/08/16/13315113-paul-ryan-condemns-paul-ryans-policy?lite

    The article and the psycho blogger P.Tillman linked to don’t acknowledge or perhaps comprehend that any savings they manage to achieve goes to pay for Obamacare so it can’t be strengthening Medicare at the same time.

    Other than repeating the bogus claim that Obama’s $716 billion in cuts strengthen Medicare, the rest of the (Maddow site) blog just goes on about how some of Ryan’s past positions are inconsistent with his current ones.

    That’s how that idiotic blog P. Tillman linked to demonstrates that Ryan “lied”. If you read through it, he just lists a long series of “lies” on page after page, with all the “proof” at the links provided, which probably 99.9% of the idiots who read the blog never click on.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  60. I should say that’s how the idiotic blog demonstrates Ryan Romney lied.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  61. Meanwhile, Obama tells flat out unambiguous lies. Like when he said in a 2008 debate that his mother was denied health care by the insurance company when she was dying.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  62. And the security cameras showed the WH from day one that no protest occurred at Benghazi.

    Obama/Biden is in free fall. OH all tied with D+6 where 2004 all tied D+0 and Booosh won by 3.

    Down Low has no path to victory. Next debate a town hall will be a wash and change nothing.

    gary gulrud (0e3cb3)

  63. The State Department can say that they aren’t sure now whether there was a demonstration prior to the attack, the liberal media and Biden can cite budget cuts, but the question remains:

    Where did Obama’s clearly articulated story about the movie come from?

    The Feds picked up the guy in CA for (local non-Federal?) parole violations. Obama painted a big target on his chest. The administration preached about the evils of free speech for a week. And now they act as though their abandoned storyline has nothing to do with them.

    Amphipolis (e01538)

  64. That is, Obama painted a big target on the film maker’s chest, telling the entire Muslim world that an American citizen is their mortal enemy.

    Amphipolis (e01538)

  65. The administration preached about the evils of free speech for a week. And now they act as though their abandoned storyline has nothing to do with them.

    Comment by Amphipolis — 10/13/2012

    It is really messed up when you think about it. That guy very well could be killed, and the administration found that an acceptable price for their pointless political exercise.

    Dustin (73fead)

  66. 70. It is really messed up when you think about it. That guy very well could be killed, and the administration found that an acceptable price for their pointless political exercise.

    Comment by Dustin — 10/13/2012 @ 8:49 am

    They enlisted four dead Americans into the false narrative covering up the murder of those very same corpses they uttered the lies over.

    If they’re willing to do that to actual people Obama and his administration are supposed to be loyal toward, on the principle that loyalty runs down the chain of command as well as up, calling them “bumps in the road” why wouldn’t they make some guy they never heard of before a sacrificial lamb as well.

    As an aside, note we haven’t heard from the American eye-witnesses. Not all the ambassador’s staff members died that night in Benghazi. In addition to the consulate’s security camera footage, we would have known for a certainty within hours based upon their observations that there was no protest.

    This is the Obama administration’s M.O. They obviously use the excuse of an investigation as a stonewall. Undoubtedly they’ve threatened these people with legal action if they talk about matters “under investigation.”

    Although what happens in plain view on a Benghazi street where anyone can see it is no way secret in any way. It’s in the public domain. The Obama administration is trying to remove it.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  67. The coming Obama-Clinton War should be interesting…

    Colonel Haiku (dc1b32)

  68. There is a problem with that,

    http://2012.presidential-candidates.org/?news=Statement-by-Secretary-Clinton-on-the-Attack-in-Benghazi

    Even if she didn’t see the footage from the Embassy, she would have briefed on it

    narciso (ee31f1)

  69. Obama and his administration are supposed to be loyal toward

    that’s exactly where I’m coming from. Obama doesn’t feel like being any American citizen’s president unless it benefits him politically.

    We can do better, and I think we will pretty soon.

    Dustin (73fead)

  70. The coming Obama-Clinton War should be interesting…
    Comment by Colonel Haiku — 10/13/2012 @ 9:39 am

    — This will only take place after the election, IF he loses.

    Icy (7a4103)

  71. depends on if there’s a dire need to throw her under the bus before the election, Icy. The preliminary steps are underway…

    Colonel Haiku (dc1b32)

  72. 73. There is a problem with that…

    Even if she didn’t see the footage from the Embassy, she would have briefed on it

    Comment by narciso — 10/13/2012 @ 9:44 am

    That’s always the problem; you can’t really go along “a little bit” or “somewhat” with a cover-up based upon a web of deceit.

    That’s also the problem with this WH response to Biden’s statements that “we did not know they wanted more security there.”

    The vice president was speaking about himself and the president, and the White House. He was not referring to the administration, clearly, since there was a public hearing for four-and-a-half hours where it was discussed openly by individuals working at the State Department, requests that were made. Obviously, he was referring to, he wasn’t talking about the administration writ large, he was speaking about the president, himself, and the White House.

    Really? Because how then does the WH perform the role that Axelrod claims it performs so ably:

    On Libya, Axelrod says, “Well, the role of the White House was to convey the information that we were receiving from our intelligence people on the ground and in the area. And that’s what we’ve done throughout. No one has an interest in obscuring facts about this. The President, of all people, wants all the facts so that he can act on them and make sure that in the future, if there were deficiencies, that we address them. The other thing is, and the primary task right now, is to find those who are responsible and bring them to justice. So we work with the facts that we have, as the facts emerge, the White House and the State Department have shared them. And now the task should be to ask, ‘What do we need to do in the future to guard against this kind of a situation?’ One thing we shouldn’t do, however, Soledad, is what Paul Ryan and the Republicans in Congress have suggested, which is to cut back on funding for the security of these facilities.”

    That was on October 11, after the VP debates. So, the Obama campaign’s claim is that they “convey the information that we were receiving from our intelligence people on the ground and in the area” if they remain so thoroughly out of the loop? Willfully so, obviously, since it is so beneficial to be able to say “we didn’t know they wanted more security.”

    So if they didn’t know, they weren’t performing the role Axelrod says they’ve defined for themselves. If they were performing their defined role, then they knew.

    It must be one or the other.

    Then there’s this exchange from a WH press briefing on Sep 14th:

    Q Why was there not adequate security around Ambassador Stevens?

    MR. CARNEY: In terms of the security at the Benghazi facility or post, I would have to refer you to the State Department for specifics about what security was there. There was a security presence. It was unfortunately not enough to resist the attacks that we saw and resulted in the tragic loss of life. But there was security.

    It is also the case that in reaction to this the President has ordered that we review all of our security arrangements for embassy facilities and other diplomatic facilities around the world. But in terms of the specific security that was in place at Benghazi, I’d have to refer you to the State Department.

    Q Wouldn’t it seem logical that the anniversary of 9/11 would be a time that you would want to have extra security around diplomats and military posts?

    MR. CARNEY: Well, as you know, we are very vigilant around anniversaries like 9/11. The President is always briefed and brought up to speed on all the precautions being taken. But let’s be —

    Q But saying you’re very vigilant and being very vigilant are different things.

    MR. CARNEY: Jake, let’s be clear, these protests were in reaction to a video that had spread to the region

    Q At Benghazi? What happened at Benghazi —

    MR. CARNEY: We certainly don’t know. We don’t know otherwise. We have no information to suggest that it was a preplanned attack. The unrest we’ve seen around the region has been in reaction to a video that Muslims, many Muslims find offensive. And while the violence is reprehensible and unjustified, it is not a reaction to the 9/11 anniversary that we know of, or to U.S. policy.

    I bolded the verifiable lies. Lies that we know are lies when Carney tried to pass this campaign propaganda off as if it were factual during this briefing. There was no protest at Benghazi, the administration knew that the night it happened. This was not over a video. And by the 14th they did have information, to the point they knew as fact that this wasn’t over a video but was in fact a pre-planned attack. As a matter of fact, the one piece of cherry picked intel they’re using to claim that this propaganda, this right here passed along by Carney, that this was related to a video protest was a communications intercept from an AQ affiliate that also announced it was going ahead with the attack as planned.

    I’ve italicized the part that leads to the obvious questions.

    1. Was the President in fact briefed, or did the world’s most sophisticated consumerah of intel EVAH! (TWMSCOIE) read it on his kindle?

    2 Did TWMSCOIE! not think to ask questions regarding the threat? Oh, that’s right; our boy president thinks it’s sophisticated not to attend briefings where questions can be asked. But actual, no s*** sophisticated consumers of intel do attend briefings so they know if specific security precautions are being taken one place but not others, why?

    One obvious question that should be asked is, why didn’t we take the most obvious security precaution of all and just close the consulate? Every other western nation did because they had intel that Benghazi was just too dangerous.

    Not like I’d expect a straight answer, but I’d just like to get an answer on tape.

    The bottom line is that the WH can’t claim it didn’t know after claiming it was briefed, and then after claiming it didn’t know the President’s own campaign says that it’s the WH role to convey exactly the concerns that the Libyan embassy people expressed along to Congress.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  73. *So, the Obama campaign’s claim is that they can “convey the information that we were receiving from our intelligence people on the ground and in the area” if they remain so thoroughly out of the loop?*

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  74. Obama inherited the dangerous security situation in Libya after sponsoring an unapproved limited duration kinetic military action to help radical Islamists overthrow Qadaffi.

    Apart from multiple written intelligence reports, actual violent incidents, requests for additional security from people with their boots on the ground, and the withdrawal of our allies from the area, there was virtually no indication of growing Al Qaeda or Islamist presence in North Africa or that danger levels in Libya were increasing. The White House simply did not know based upon the best intelligence it had.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  75. ‘Apart from the obvious, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

    narciso (ee31f1)

  76. narciso – Teflon, like duct tape, has a myriad of uses.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  77. An acknowledgement that security was inexcusably inadequate is what we need, not claims of security ignorance.

    Leaving the American people with what appears to be a defiant status quo is simply unacceptable.

    Amphipolis (e01538)

  78. Benghazi is the tipping point. A month before the election it reminds and encapsulates for the American public the entire four years of this administration. The use of gullible media to blanket and shape early public opinion regardless of facts. Check. The unraveling of their PC meme. Check. The willingness of administration spokespeople to continue to lie well past the time when everyone else knows they are spouting hoooey. Check. The incompetence of the West Wing advisors, department heads and cabinet members. Check. The politicization of absolutely every newsworthy event both foreign and domestic. Check.

    elissa (f29fe9)

  79. 82. An acknowledgement that security was inexcusably inadequate is what we need, not claims of security ignorance.

    Leaving the American people with what appears to be a defiant status quo is simply unacceptable.

    Comment by Amphipolis — 10/13/2012 @ 12:01 pm

    It’s important to emphasize that when embassy or consular security is inadequate, the proper response is to close the mission. Not to harden it.

    We need to stop feeding into the the Obamalinsky propaganda machine. The Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations makes it clear that guaranteeing the security of an embassy or consulate, as well as freedom of movement within the country, is the responsibility of “the receiving nation.” In this case Libya.

    It is of course a lie that GOP budget cuts harmed embassy security. Primarily because no cuts were made.

    But more to the point, it’s just wrong-headed to make this an issue of budgeting or why is there a Marine security detachment in Paris but not Tripoli.

    The real issue is that when the threat is beyond the capability of the receiving nation to provide security, the only responsible decision is to evacuate the staff and close the mission. Not to deploy an army.

    Every other western nation did this. The question is, why didn’t we? Clearly there was nothing important enough in Benghazi to justify losing four Americans (and don’t give me any BS about intelligence as if that has be co-located with a consulate).

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  80. “Clearly there was nothing important enough in Benghazi to justify losing four Americans (and don’t give me any BS about intelligence as if that has be co-located with a consulate).”

    Steve57 – Again, I remain unconvinced we know everything about the true purpose of the Ambassador’s visit to Benghazi on September 10. Was he ordered there by Washington? We’re negotiating with the Taliban in Afghanistan. We were negotiating with the Muslim Brotherhood prior to the overthrow of Mubarak in Egypt. It would not surprise me at all if Stevens was sent to Benghazi to speak with radical Islamist groups.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  81. Steve57 – thank you, you’re absolutely right.

    Amphipolis (e01538)

  82. daleyrocks, I know you don’t like it when I write a wall of text, so I’ll try to keep this brief (and so I’m not covering all the bases).

    We don’t have to keep a consulate open for any of the purposes you mentioned. As a matter of fact it’s a really stupid idea to house the ambassador at a facility that’s we know has been targeted before for the purposes you mention. It is not a safe location.

    If, and that’s a big if, we wish to have an ambassador, our representative to the government of Libya, negotiate with radical Islamic groups in conflict with the government we can do so with representatives on safer terrain. (Do we really know the purpose of Steven’s trip to Austria? Was it really to check out the embassy’s new $100K+ charging station for the million dollar fleet of Volts the Obama admin would rather spend money on rather than scurity in places like Libya?)

    That’s point number one.

    Number two, that’s no excuse for the lack of personal security.

    What I’m trying to get across is that if the administration ordered Stevens to Benghazi for clandestine negotiations or some other classified mission and still treated his security this lightly then for multiple reasons it’s an even greater indictment of their incompetence.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  83. daley, I don’t know anything about the following website, but this post might be something….

    It should also be known and understood that communications between and among the leadership of terror networks is performed on the Internet by means of dynamic chat rooms and similar websites. The most clandestine communications are found on the sites of video games and other computer games. Here, open chatter, instruction, and planning take place under the guise and cover of gaming. Such is the case in the matter of weapons and the terror attacks we are witnessing in the Middle East.

    One of the four Americans murdered in Benghazi was Sean Smith, who was known for his online gaming and social media skills. He and Ambassador Stevens, as well as the two other special operators from Wind Zero, were executing a CIA and State Department mission to track not only Qaddafi’s weapons, but to trace any and all weapons trafficking in the regions. Smith was the information officer at the Benghazi mission and likely was too close to having uncovered intelligence that pinpointed key players both in and outside of Libya. Intelligence was shared with the CIA, which does enforce the drone program, whether inside Libya, stemming from the mission to remove Qaddafi, or in other hot-spots in the Middle East.

    http://gulagbound.com/33988/weapons-hunting-the-reason-for-the-9-11-murders-in-libya/#.UFu3ALKPUvm

    (Sammy keeps talking about sooper sekrit intel.)

    elissa (f29fe9)

  84. daleyrocks, just so you know I actually agree with you. I agree, and I know I’ve said this before on at least one other thread, that I never meant to imply Stevens left Tripoli for Benghazi just to visit with American doctors assisting colleagues at the Benghazi Medical Center, to see how his “American space” was coming along, or meet Turkish friends.

    Whatever else he was doing there was obviously a really, really stupid idea. So I don’t doubt that this clown college of an administration could have conceived of a mission to send him on. Unguarded. On the anniversary of 9/11.

    I’m just saying if you’re right, and I suspect you well may be, it’s just further evidence that every night is amateur night at Obama’s freshman Marxist club in the WH dorm.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  85. “What I’m trying to get across is that if the administration ordered Stevens to Benghazi for clandestine negotiations or some other classified mission and still treated his security this lightly then for multiple reasons it’s an even greater indictment of their incompetence.”

    Steve57 – Exactly my point. Having the Ambassador at what has already been described by security professionals as a substandard facility on the anniversary of 9/11 seems like a blunder on its face. Not explaining why he was there compounds it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  86. Steve57, the ambassador’s security requirements don’t really change based on the topic of his trips.

    SPQR (768505)

  87. SPQR, I’m not saying that they do change. But clearly the security provided was inadequate for any purpose whatsoever.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  88. Elissa, unfortunately there’s nothing super sekrit about this intel. The fact that Doherty and Woods were hired not to provide security to Stevens but hunt weapons was so widely known that, as I’ve mentioned on other occasions, Rice’s Sep. 16th lying tour of the Sunday talk shows was pre-blown before she said a word.

    She tried to somehow make the case that State didn’t drop the ball on security because the two ex-SEALs were there. It had already been widely reported what contract those two men were working on, and it wasn’t to provide personal security.

    A lot of other details had already been reported in the press, particularly by Eli Lake of Newsweek. Including the fact that there was a CIA facility at the site of the consulate. Then there was the fact that sensitive documents related to weapons destruction were discovered by reporters unsecured in the consulate following the assault (leading me to conclude there had been no warning in the form of a protest because the staff would have been destroying them rather than chatting on the phone or entertaining guests, if not evacuating).

    And the idea they’d actually involve the ambassador directly in something like this?

    So much of this is so boneheaded it beggars belief. But then, welcome to my world post-November 2008.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  89. “Steve57, the ambassador’s security requirements don’t really change based on the topic of his trips.”

    SPQR – I think the point is that the security requirements depend on the danger of the trip. Benghazi was more dangerous than Tripoli. The Benghazi Consulate was substandard from a security standard. Who the Ambassador was meeting with and where could have an impact. There was heightened danger on the anniversary of 9/11, although the White House spokesweasel, Jay Carney, denies they had any actionable intelligence about threats. Why make the trip?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  90. “With tensions between President Obama and the Clintons at a new high, former President Bill Clinton is moving fast to develop a contingency plan [ed. note: “Operation CarpetMunch”] for how his wife, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, should react if Obama attempts to tie the Benghazi fiasco around her neck, according to author Ed Klein.”

    Colonel Haiku (dc1b32)


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