Patterico's Pontifications

10/11/2012

The “Lowering Expectations for Paul Ryan” Post

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:58 am

He might tell some wheelchair bound guy to stand up. Or make a crack about Bobby Jindal and 7-11s, or about Allen West being clean and articulate.

You really just never know.

225 Responses to “The “Lowering Expectations for Paul Ryan” Post”

  1. True that. On the other hand, Slow Joe has a long and glorious record of screwing things up. He’s your somewhat lovable, but definitely crazy, uncle you keep in the attic and out of the living room. Another 12 hours and we’ll know which Joe shows up.

    Comanche Voter (29e1a6)

  2. The deck is stacked: We already know every single word he utters tonight will be deemed racist code.

    On the serious side, it seems Ryan is clearly aware of his opponent’s strategy,

    “Because they had such a bad debate, Joe Biden is just going to come flying at us,” Ryan said, speaking with Frank Beckmann, a Detroit talk-show host. “It seems pretty clear that their new strategy is just to call us liars, to descend into a mud pit.”

    Dana (292dcf)

  3. The choice of moderatrix, Raddatz, will be one to protect the VP. Ole Joe can still mess the debate up with ad libs but he will be disciplined enough to stick to his lines.

    Rebuttal is obviated. He will restate his ‘truth’ and little else, there’s no guarantee a pre-fab response would be apt.

    The kid may not ‘win’ with killer upper cuts but will win in simply looking and sounding like a VP.

    Joe has no such weapon in his arsenal.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  4. Nonsense, no serious political party would nominate someone that stupid to be VP, Patterico …

    SPQR (768505)

  5. Obama didn’t lose his debate; his ideas lost.

    Same will be said for tonight’s match up.

    AZ Bob (039c69)

  6. #3 The choice of moderatrix, Raddatz, will be one to protect the VP. Ole Joe can still mess the debate up with ad libs but he will be disciplined enough to stick to his lines.

    Borrowing a line – if we eliminated every newsperson with a connection to the DNC and the whitehouse, you would only be left with a tiny subset of journalists who all work at Fox news, and we know how biased they are.

    Joe-Dallas (ea8609)

  7. You have high expectations because you’re going to take substance into account for grading the debate.

    It turns out, it’s just a question of style. Obama didn’t lose for lack of substance (though he did lack it). He lost because he couldn’t fake substance. Romney didn’t win because he had substance (of course he did). He won because he convinced people he had substance.

    The fact is, Biden is an accomplished and practiced liar. Raddatz will do everything she can to back him up. The liberal media will ignore Joe’s lies. The only people saying “hey that Joe Biden feller said a lot that wasn’t true” will be the Republican pundits. Viewers will dismiss that as spin.

    Daryl Herbert (98778e)

  8. I will say that I, too, have high expectations for Paul Ryan. I see that the deck is stacked against him because the moderator and liberal media will do what they can to cover up Joe’s flaws and enhance his strengths (which happen to be identical: the fact that he’s such a good liar)

    Daryl Herbert (98778e)

  9. The fact is, Ryan is an accomplished and practiced liar. ”

    FIxed that typo fer ya chief.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  10. Daryl Herbert, everybody said the exact same thing before the first POTUS debate, and it didn’t happen.

    Icy (d35969)

  11. Oh Good Allah! dim-wit’out-a-whit-o’-wit has awoken from his stupor and is stuping in our direction again.

    Icy (d35969)

  12. P.Tillman, nope. You didn’t. It was correct before. That you can’t remember what a long career of lying Joe Biden has, only reinforces that you are a dishonest incompetent troll.

    SPQR (768505)

  13. And don’t forget that Joe Biden supposedly ‘won’ the debate against Sarah Palin but did so with a long list of complete fabrications on his part.

    SPQR (768505)

  14. 9. The fact is, Ryan is an accomplished and practiced liar. ”

    FIxed that typo fer ya chief.

    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 9:30 am

    Libtards always say that about conservatives when they don’t live down to their preconceived inanities.

    The rest of the world has caught up.

    It is good that Tilly is still operating in the fog of his own imagination.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  15. I’m not sure what you mean by “lowering expectations” of Ryan…I am fully expecting him to come out and lie about nearly everything. Let’s see if he even admits to being “Paul Ryan” or that his running mate is “Mitt Romney”.

    Even the media has caught up with him on this…his convention speech set a new low-water mark in the annals of political lying.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  16. Petey – Do you think Joe Biden is going to invite Paul Ryan to Katie’s Restaurant near the end of the debate as he did Sarah Palin?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  17. No, P.Tillman, your claims are simply false. The Obama campaign likes to label differences of opinion as “lies” even as they get caught lying with false statements of objective fact.

    Bad troll is incompetent.

    SPQR (768505)

  18. There are some comments that would be hilarious, if not so sad that someone would actually make them. other than that, I will not refer to them any more.

    Yes, Biden has said so many dishonest things in the past I have long since stopped considering his comments worthy of serious consideration. (like some who make comments here).

    Rush predicts Biden will come out very pleasant and praising of Ryan, the senior politician encouraging the “up and comer”, then find a way to be incredibly condescending and belittling with a smile.
    “I remember Ronald Reagan, and Romney is no Ronald Reagan, but you may be a Dan Quayle“.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  19. “No, P.Tillman, your claims are simply false.”

    Of course they are, that’s the way Romney/Ryan have chosen to deal with their lies: Deny them, assert the claim is false.

    Yet at the same time numerous independent journalists have listed the lies from both Ryan and Romney.

    You can INSIST they aren’t valid, but no one here has yet to refute most of them; rather, it’s denial, followed by counter-attack…the exact MO of liars who know they are lying.

    When you can refute the lies people (and not just Obama supporters) will stop saying they are lies. Until then you better get used to it, because you’re putting your support behind two consummate, full-time pathological (or in Mitt’s case, religious) bald-faced lying sacks of shit.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  20. But I forget that being a lying sack of shit makes it hard if not impossible to detect the stench on others…

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  21. If Romney and Ryan lied so much, maybe I would actually hear reports of what the lies were, instead of just repeated cries of “Liar, Liar!”
    (I should link to the appropriate clip of Princess Bride, but I’m not going to take the time, someone else can help out, please.)

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  22. 15. I’m not sure what you mean by “lowering expectations” of Ryan…I am fully expecting him to come out and lie about nearly everything. Let’s see if he even admits to being “Paul Ryan” or that his running mate is “Mitt Romney”.

    Even the media has caught up with him on this…his convention speech set a new low-water mark in the annals of political lying.

    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 9:43 am

    The screeching, catterwalling, and general loud as******ry will continue until Obama’s poll numbers imrove.

    Anyone see it differently?

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  23. “Rush predicts…”

    Don’t you mean “Rush injects”? As in drugs. Anyone citing this drugged out hateful pedophile has to be brain damaged.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  24. “If Romney and Ryan lied so much, maybe I would actually hear reports of what the lies were, instead of just repeated cries of “Liar, Liar!” ”

    Maybe if you didn’t have your head up your ass you would…real difficult mystery to solve there Wingnut:

    http://www.politifact.com/personalities/mitt-romney/statements/byruling/false/

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  25. The brain damaged one is Biden, P.Tillman, as you would know if you were not the incompetent you are.

    In his debate with Palin, Biden kept making up stuff out of whole cloth, his lies about how much the Iraq war was costing in contrast to Afghanistan only the most blatant, which Palin was not able to refute.

    Ryan is actually far more in command of facts and should be able to bounce Biden around quite a bit when Biden pulls stuff out of his ass.

    SPQR (768505)

  26. See what I mean? I don’t know about the rest of you but I love the scent of fear. Although fuel oil and gunpowder come close.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  27. Here’s a piece for Tillman to ignore which concerns the left’s propensity to shout “liar” when things go poorly for them.

    JVW (f5695c)

  28. P.Tillman, the “politifact” article is itself a lie. Such as its claim that Obama’s deficits are down from what he “inherited”. That’s based on claiming that FY2009 was a Bush budget – a lie.

    You really are the most brazen of incompetent liars.

    SPQR (768505)

  29. “Ryan is actually far more in command of facts”

    He’s in command of lying, he doesn’t care about “facts”…he makes them up as he goes along to fit his Randian worldview. Typical Wingnut, and exactly why you all love him so…he’s you. A lying delusional ideologue who lives in a world of their own creation and thinks that everyone else MUST also.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  30. Maybe if you didn’t have your head up your ass you would…

    Thank you for your kind and respectful discourse. My anatomy is not distorted, I assure you, and I limit my online time to sites worth visiting.

    You have long ago demonstrated the sincerity and reasonableness of your idea of dialogue. I doubt if I would believe you on something even if you linked the Romney campaign, PowerLine or Rush.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  31. Life was somewhat easier in some ways when one could appeal to your teacher to tell the class smart*** to shut up.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  32. “The conceit of the fact-checkers is that their claims are objectively true: ”

    Thanks for the link to Wingnut operative Ponnoru…here stating exactly the crux of the Pro-Lying argument: We Will not Accept Your Facts Because We See it Differently…ERGO, they are not “objectively true”.

    The levels of delusion around Wingnuttia are simply breathtaking.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  33. P.Tillman, I’ve already found a brazen lie in your citation of politifact. You’ve been shown to be the one repeating falsehoods.

    And you make a new one, Ryan is not a Randian.

    SPQR (768505)

  34. P.Tillman, it is an objectively false statement to claim that Obama “inherited” the FY2009 deficit. As the politifact piece states that you claim shows Romney’s ‘lies’.

    SPQR (768505)

  35. “Here’s a piece for Tillman to ignore which concerns the left’s propensity to shout “liar” when things go poorly for them.”

    Don’t forget about the propensity of the LIAR to avoid having to justify their lies at all cost….as you and everyone else here have done over and over and over. LOL.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  36. Anyone citing this drugged out hateful pedophile has to be brain damaged.
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 10:02 am

    Obama’s favorite rhetorical fallacy is the straw man, Tillman’s is the ad hominum attack.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  37. SPQR, my favorite moment in the Biden-Palin debate is when Biden suggested that everyone should go with him to Katie’s Restaurant in Wilmington, DE to talk to the regular folks about how bad the economy was. As bloggers pointed out, Katie’s Restaurant had been closed since the Clinton Administration.

    Such a typical Joe moment: the phony populism used to mask four decades of farting about in Washington (note his declaration that he “hangs out a lot” at Home Depot), the hosanna to ordinary folks from a guy who is surrounded by lackeys and sycophants, the overall blowhardiness. We’re not going to miss him.

    JVW (f5695c)

  38. In Petey’s world, the only thing rhetoric and reality have in common is that they both start with the letter “r”.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  39. 32. P.Tillman, I’ve already found a brazen lie in your citation of politifact. You’ve been shown to be the one repeating falsehoods.

    And you make a new one, Ryan is not a Randian.

    Comment by SPQR — 10/11/2012 @ 10:10 am

    When they’re spitting untruths is how you know you’ve cornered the wildcat.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  40. “P.Tillman, it is an objectively false statement to claim that Obama “inherited” the FY2009 deficit.”

    OMG.

    The final Congressional Budget Office baseline deficit projection before Obama took office — noted in table 5 in this January 2009 CBO report — showed a fiscal year 2009 deficit of $1.19 trillion.

    That figure doesn’t account for any of Obama’s own spending initiatives, such as the stimulus bill. But the deficit grew quickly under Obama: The fiscal 2009 deficit rose to $1.41 trillion and has remained above $1 trillion annually ever since.

    But compared to what Obama inherited, the annual deficit has gone down slightly. CBO projects that for fiscal 2012, which has just ended, the fiscal 2012 deficit will be $1.09 trillion.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  41. “Don’t forget about the propensity of the LIAR to avoid having to justify their lies at all cost….as you and everyone else here have done over and over and over. LOL.”

    Petey – How is that $5 trillion tax cut talking point working out for you?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  42. There are no exits.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  43. Since Tillman appended “LOL” to the end of his comment, I’m going to go ahead and assume he is a fifth-year junior at a third-rate university, studying something silly like Gender Studies. But say this much for him: he has memorized and is able to regurgitate all the talking points that his professors gave him. As shown yesterday, he also has learned to copy-and-paste huge tracts of nonsense from Think Progress.

    JVW (f5695c)

  44. “And you make a new one, Ryan is not a Randian.”

    “I grew up reading Ayn Rand, and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are and what my beliefs are. It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff.”
    – U.S. Representative Paul Ryan, Republican vice presidential candidate, in a 2005 speech

    [T]he reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand. And the fight we are in here, make no mistake about it, is a fight of individualism versus collectivism.”

    Thanks for illustrating exactly what I’m talking about…baldface denial of a factual claim.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  45. But say this much for him: he has memorized and is able to regurgitate all the talking points that his professors gave him.

    Then Tilly might be Barack Obama his own damned self, considering that’s the Preezy’s only talent.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  46. Tillman, you can read (and even enjoy!) Ayn Rand without becoming a Randian, just as you can read Lord of the Rings without becoming a hobbit.

    JVW (f5695c)

  47. 43. Thanks for illustrating exactly what I’m talking about…baldface denial of a factual claim.

    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 10:21 am

    Does anyone out of High School fall for this? Dude, I used to be a big Doors fan when I was 13 but…

    Trust you to bring it up.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  48. “How is that $5 trillion tax cut talking point working out for you?”

    Love this one, because it illustrates very nicely the difference between what Wingnuts call “lying” and what most normal people think it is.

    “The non-partisan Tax Policy Center concluded that Mitt Romney’s tax plan would cost $4.8 trillion over 10 years.”

    “Romney said he would offset that by closing loopholes and reducing reductions,” he said. “So if you take him at his word, our verdict [on Obama's claim] that Mitt Romney would cut taxes on the wealthy by $5 trillion, the verdict is false.”

    So let’s summarize and highlight:

    So if you take him at his word,

    See? If you have FAITH in what Romney is now claiming, then the president is a “liar”.

    By no reasonable stretch of the imagination can this be thought of as plausible.

    But nice try. Any others?

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  49. Aaaaaaaaaaaaanyway, this is my prediction regarding tonight:

    Because Romney was the undisputed winner of his debate last week, the Media needs to report the VP debate tonight as a “win” for Biden, no matter what the objective results of the debate might be.

    If/when Ryan destroys him with facts and energy, the media will report that Biden nevertheless retained the gravitas of his many years of experience, yadda-yadda-yadda.

    This way, the horse race will continue apace.

    Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b)

  50. I read “A Sand County Almanac” when I was a kid. It had a great influence on me. Doesn’t mean I confuse Aldo Leopold with G_d.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  51. “Ayn Rand without becoming a Randian, just as you can read Lord of the Rings without becoming a hobbit.”

    That’s actually funny…except Ryan walks, talks and acts like a Randian as well.

    You do have to wonder why he and you are all so intent on distancing Ryan from his well-established philosophical and political beliefs…is there something you are all trying to hide? The atheism maybe? The lunacy? The sex?

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  52. “If/when Ryan destroys him with facts and energy, ”

    Yes, and if trees sprouted gold leaves we’d all be rich rich rich!

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  53. 47. But nice try. Any others?

    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 10:27 am

    Oh, there’ll be lots of others.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  54. “Oh, there’ll be lots of others.”

    I’d be happy with just a few more…you know, get the number down from 500+ lies to something under 500 or so??

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  55. I see Illman is back to its same old vile lying self. SHOCKA

    JD (9ace9f)

  56. “Yes, and if trees sprouted gold leaves we’d all be rich rich rich!”

    P-Dilly shows that his grasp of economics is equal to his grasp of current events.

    Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b)

  57. P-Dilly shows that his grasp of economics is equal to his grasp of current events.

    He’s previewing the economic agenda of Obama in a second term. The other part is the National Metal Detectors on the Beach Act, which should really curb unemployment in coastal California.

    JVW (f5695c)

  58. ___________________________________________

    A lying delusional ideologue who lives in a world of their own creation and thinks that everyone else MUST also.

    Coming from you, that truly is a case of projecting. LOL.

    I just hope you’re not much older than your teens or 20s. A foolish liberal who’s still rather young is par for the course. In a way, that’s to be expected, and I can roll with that.

    But if you’re well into your 30s, or definitely middle-aged (or someone like Obama, who’s in his 50s), there’s something intrinsically wrong with you. Moreover, I wouldn’t be surprised if in actuality — and in another case of projecting — you fit the profile of the very qualities you associate with your political opposites.

    startribune.com,Katherine Kersten, May 2012:

    We’ve got a vivid picture of the Republicans and conservatives in our midst. They’re a sour, dour lot — close-minded, tight-fisted and intolerant. Some are businesspeople, greedy and self-interested. Others are rednecks, poorly informed, clinging to their guns and religion.

    If only these folks understood political issues better and cared more about their fellow man, they’d be liberals, right? Think again. A growing body of research is shattering this conventional wisdom.

    Survey data make clear that Republicans, on average, are better informed than Democrats about political issues. Data from the American National Election Study has confirmed this over the years, and an April 2012 Pew Research Center survey — “What the Public Knows about the Political Parties” — is the latest to document it. On eight of the survey’s 13 questions about politics, Republicans outperformed Democrats by an average of 18 percentage points. “Republicans fare substantially better than Democrats on several questions in the survey, as is typically the case in surveys about political knowledge,” according to the study.

    Republicans even know more about Democratic leaders: 75 percent of Republicans identified Nancy Pelosi as a Democrat, vs. 59 percent of Democrats. And while 73 percent of Republicans knew Franklin Roosevelt was a Democrat, only 58 percent of Democrats did.

    But surely liberals, widely praised for tolerance, are more open-minded than conservatives toward people with different views? Whoops. A March 2012 Pew report, entitled “Social Networking Sites and Politics,” found that 28 percent of liberals have “blocked, unfriended or hidden someone” on social-networking sites because of their political postings, compared with 16 percent of conservatives.

    Come to think of it, that shouldn’t surprise anyone who’s spent time on a college campus. We’re used to hearing that left-wing students have shouted down a conservative speaker. But when did you last hear about conservative students silencing a liberal speaker?

    OK, OK. So maybe conservatives as a group are more knowledgeable about politics and more open-minded than liberals. But liberals’ signature quality is their “bleeding hearts.” They must be more caring and generous than conservatives, right? It turns out willingness to use government money to improve others’ condition doesn’t guarantee personal generosity. Social scientist Arthur Brooks documented this in his 2006 book, “Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth about Compassionate Conservatism.”

    According to Brooks, conservative-headed households give 30 percent more to charity than liberal-headed households, on average, although liberal families’ incomes are higher. Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.

    Liberals tend to evaluate public policies by focusing on the intentions behind them, says economist Thomas Sowell. For centuries, liberal thinkers have placed great value on words related to intentions — “sincerity, commitment, dedication” — describing policies in terms of intended goals: “liberty, equality, fraternity” or “social justice.” Conservatives, however, place greater value on real-world consequences. In their view, the world is too complex for any human plan to achieve its intended goal without producing potentially harmful unintended consequences.

    Mark (6d5e0d)

  59. just as you can read Lord of the Rings without becoming a hobbit.
    Comment by JVW — 10/11/2012 @ 10:23 am

    So that’s why my feet became hairy Christmas break my freshman year in college! Who knew!

    I read “A Sand County Almanac” when I was a kid.
    Comment by Steve57 — 10/11/2012 @ 10:29 am

    I had to for a biology class in HS. The only thing I remember about it is another kid in class saying that my favorite quote from it was “Dirt is clean”. (It would be very funny if he reads this and remembers it himself. My cover would be blown.)

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  60. “Shorter Tilly.”

    Exactly the kind of answer I was expecting…redirection. LOL.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  61. “Coming from you, that truly is a case of projecting. LOL.”

    You can’t even see it happening even as you engage in it yourself, can you? Wow.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  62. “I see Illman is back to its same old vile lying self. ”

    But Lying for the Lord is honorable I guess, eh?

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  63. illman,

    whose lying?

    EPWJ (719277)

  64. “illman, whose lying?”

    Why don’t you look up “Lying for the Lord” and then get back to us.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  65. While we are at it, I will give my example as to why I have so little respect for “liberals” in general. Bush is told about 9/11, is criticized for finishing reading a book for children before he leaves to take off in Air Force One for security precautions. Obama is told about Benghazi, goes back to bed, goes to a fundraiser the next day. Now granted, there is a huge difference between an attack on direct American soil that kills thousands as opposed to an attack on American diplomatic soil, but still, the press and lib reaction is 180 degrees different.

    Likewise, all of the intel agencies in the world say that saddam had WMD’s, when the obvious stockpiles are not found as some expected, the meme is “Bush lied”. Obama does lie and tries to get cover by claiming the had “bad intel”, and so far only a small amount of the press is not buying it instead of laughing Carney off the podium.

    Now, I realize there is more chance for a snowball to last in Hades than for illman to reflect on his behavior, but I’ve said this in case somebody observing is still trying to figure out the political landscape.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  66. I read “A Sand County Almanac” when I was a kid.
    Comment by Steve57 — 10/11/2012 @ 10:29 am

    I had to for a biology class in HS. The only thing I remember about it is another kid in class saying that my favorite quote from it was “Dirt is clean”. (It would be very funny if he reads this and remembers it himself. My cover would be blown.)

    Comment by MD in Philly — 10/11/2012 @ 10:42 am

    I still have a copy on my bookshelf. It really did make an impression on me.

    It doesn’t make me a “leopoldian,” though. It influenced me; it isn’t me.

    I think I’ve captured the essence of Tilly, who shamelessly abuse the name of an honorable soldier, adequately in that vid of a spitting caged cat.

    I will not lower myself to address him further.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  67. I will not lower myself to address him further.
    Comment by Steve57 —

    The main reason to continue this thread, if there is one, is to enjoy any banter back and forth between those who are rational, so I agree with your decision.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  68. Even the media has caught up with him on this…his convention speech set a new low-water mark in the annals of political lying.

    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 9:43 am

    You mean all the erroneous “fact checks”?

    Gerald A (138c50)

  69. “See? If you have FAITH in what Romney is now claiming, then the president is a “liar”.”

    Petey – You mean what Romney has claimed all along, but which Obama and his drooling acolytes such as you have conveniently ignored.

    Stef, I lie for a living, Cutter, turned all red on Piers Morgan last night trying to defend this lie admitting that $5 trillion is not the real number, only part of the equation. She also had the brass to claim that no economist who had looked at Romney’s plan thought it was achievable without raising taxes on the middle class, which as has been repeatedly pointed out to you, blatantly false.

    The effect of Romney’s plan is what happens to the check an individual pays the government, not what happens to one part of a return or another. If an individual pays the same amount to the government, they did not receive a tax cut. The spin presented by liberals is blatantly dishonest and also refuted by several respected economists.

    Obama also claimed to have given middle class families a $4,000 tax cut during the debate. A tax cut means people are paying less in taxes than they were previously. When did Obama grant this munificence?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  70. “Now granted, there is a huge difference between an attack on direct American soil that kills thousands as opposed to an attack on American diplomatic soil,”

    Another great example of the Wingnut mind, where the meaning of “lies” differs for us vs. them.

    Here we have a false equivalence that is so out of balance as to boggle the mind.

    But he’s not done!

    “Likewise, all of the intel agencies in the world say that saddam had WMD’s, when the obvious stockpiles are not found as some expected, the meme is “Bush lied”. Obama does lie and tries to get cover by claiming the had “bad intel”

    OMG…are you seriously trying to equate these two things? Granted, this is what passes for rational thinking in your world but even my 8 year old daughter could recognize the utter stupidity of this comparison.

    MD in Philly, you’ve made my day…providing a textbook example, with illustrations, of a delusional mind.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  71. I think it has been pointed out that the altitude of the debate site is less than 1,000 feet.

    But perhaps we will learn that Biden is allergic to Kentucky Bluegrass and had to take anti-histamines.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  72. “You mean all the erroneous “fact checks”?”

    And there you have it…the summary dismissal of evidence contrary to your fragile world view that typifies the Wingnut (delusional, sociopathic) mind.

    I’m archiving this thread for posterity…thanks all for your input.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  73. 67. I will not lower myself to address him further.
    Comment by Steve57 —

    The main reason to continue this thread, if there is one, is to enjoy any banter back and forth between those who are rational, so I agree with your decision.

    Comment by MD in Philly — 10/11/2012 @ 10:55 am

    There are many reasons to continue this comment thread.

    Countering a despicable human beings serial assaults on decency does not number among them.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  74. “serial assaults on decency”

    Why would you refer to your fellow Wingnuts like this? Not a nice playmate.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  75. Petey – Can you explain Obama’s repeated references to tax credits for moving jobs overseas?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  76. Obama also claimed to have given middle class families a $4,000 tax cut during the debate. A tax cut means people are paying less in taxes than they were previously. When did Obama grant this munificence?
    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/11/2012 @ 11:00 am

    Even if true, it was made up for by the $3,000+ decrease in real spending income.
    Success for Obama, nobody is better off, but earnings are closer to equal for all.
    But then we owe $10,000+ more as part of national debt. My net worth is decreasing with my every breath.

    The new normal, for hopefully only another month, sort of.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  77. Ryan could surprise us tonight, but so could Biden if he says something smart.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  78. “I will not lower myself to address him further.”

    You couldn’t lower yourself any further than you already have by coming here and contributing to this nonsense.

    And anyway, you’re incapable, like many others here, of raising your level of argumentation to address factual challenges to your delusions..er, claims.

    Instead, you prefer to use the excuse of “indecency” in my comments to run and hide from having to defend your lies.

    I’ve given you this choice on purpose, and you’ve done exactly what is expected of liars….use any excuse to get out of defending yourselves.

    Whatever way you want to slice it, you’ve FAILED.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  79. “But Lying for the Lord is honorable I guess, eh?”

    Petey – Do you mean Obama?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  80. ___________________________________________

    even my 8 year old daughter

    Damn, that means you’re older than I originally assumed you were.

    Liberalism in a young person can be rather quaint. But in someone who’s apparently as mature as you are (ie, chronologically but not mentally), it starts to rapidly lose whatever cushion it otherwise may have. Then it becomes analogous to a 75-year-old woman with bleached hair and lots of face lifts.

    I hope you grow up eventually.

    Mark (6d5e0d)

  81. Can anyone not using an actual hero’s name in vain explain to me why Illman thinks I am a Mormon?

    It’s desperation oozes from it’s every orifice.

    JD (318f81)

  82. 77. Petey – Can you explain Obama’s repeated references to tax credits for moving jobs overseas?

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/11/2012 @ 11:06 am

    Romney’s recently released tax returns made it clear that he and his accountant are quite familiar with navigating the tax code. Romney should know that the law currently allows a company that closes its American plant and moves manufacturing operations overseas to deduct that moving expense.

    The New York Times says, “It is true.” Reuters writes that there really are “deductions allowed for a company if it closes its plant in the United States and moves it to another country.” The conservative Boston Herald declared it a “huge gaffe.” Even Fox News’s fact check admits, “Technically, companies can claim a deduction for the costs associated with moving jobs overseas.”

    In fact, Senate Republicans recently blocked a Democratic bill that would have provided a tax credit to companies that move jobs back to the United States and ended a tax break for companies moving operations overseas.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  83. Petey – You mad, bro?

    Don’t lose it.

    You seem very excited today.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  84. “I hope you grow up eventually.”

    If “growing up” means turning into an angry bigoted delusional moron, then I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy Wingnut.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  85. Illman should never use the word fact. It knows not what it means.

    JD (318f81)

  86. “Can anyone not using an actual hero’s name in vain explain to me why Illman thinks I am a Mormon?”

    Are you NOT a mormon?

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  87. Anybody else ever try to drag a cat off a shake roof during a forest fire?

    I will let the noises that the odious human being whom I will no longer name speak.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  88. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/08/29/mitt-romney-tells-533-lies-in-30-weeks-steve-benen-documents-them/

    Go ahead…refute them.

    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 10:05 am

    If you expect someobody to go through each alleged lie one by one you’re nuts…

    So I picked something out at random.

    Romney also said, “We’re at a 30-year low in new business startups.”

    Still not true.

    He links to Kessler’s WaPo fact check column.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/mitt-romneys-hyped-up-business-start-up-statistic/2012/04/20/gIQAF77bWT_blog.html

    The Kessler column doesn’t even deal with whether business startups are at a 30 years low. It discusses what starting point for measuring the drop in startups during the Obama years should be, based on a claim Romney made about that. As the column relates, that question is a judgement call. I agree Romney shouldn’t have used the starting date he did.

    OTOH the pathological liar Obama always says that there are tax breaks for moving jobs overseas, something he just made up out of thin air.

    Likewise he continually says he inherited the enormous deficits from Bush based on the 2009 FY. Leaving aside the obvious fact he’s proposed zippo to bring them down, which he could any time he wants, he didn’t inherit it from Bush. He signed the 2009 budget, which was passed by a Congress controlled by his party.

    If you go through Romney’s statements with a fine tooth comb I’m sure you can find some questionable statements but they simply don’t compare to Obama’s outrageous mendacity.

    Gerald A (138c50)

  89. “The New York Times says, “It is true.” Reuters writes that there really are “deductions allowed for a company if it closes its plant in the United States and moves it to another country.””

    Petey – Tax deductions are allowed for normal business expenses. In fact you can deduct expenses for shutting a plant in one state and moving it to another. If the expenses are incurred in a foreign country, they would be reported on a foreign tax return first, not a U.S. return.

    Not responsive.

    Do you pay taxes? From your comments on the subject it appears you have no familiarity with the subject.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  90. Can anyone not using an actual hero’s name in vain explain to me why Illman thinks I am a Mormon?

    Probably because you mentioned that you love Park City. Tillman obviously has such a limited exposure to The Other (as do most liberals) that he thinks (a) every single person in Utah is Mormon and (b) Park City is every bit as Mormon as the rest of Utah. It’s all flyover country to people like Tillman.

    JVW (f5695c)

  91. JD, not a clue, wouldn’t even try.

    If the routine business cost of changing the location of a plant from one place to another is considered “a tax break to move a company overseas” then I say that is pretty misleading. it’s like saying a company gets a tax break to move from one state to another. There is no “tax break for moving”, there is the ability to deduct the expenses of moving the business, whether the business is moved across the street, across the country, or across the world.

    That is not a tax break for moving overseas. A tax break for moving overseas means a company pays less taxes in they move overseas than the taxes they would pay for moving across the country. I don’t think anybody would really try to say a company gets a “tax break” for moving across the country if all they mean is the expense write-off is bigger because the cost was bigger.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  92. #82

    Well if that’s true, then WHY THE HECK DIDN’T OBAMA SEND A BILL TO CONGRESS AS SOON AS HE TOOK OFFICE!

    Gerald A (138c50)

  93. I heart how it just makes shlt up. You are so cute, and vile, illman.

    JD (318f81)

  94. “In fact, Senate Republicans recently blocked a Democratic bill that would have provided a tax credit to companies that move jobs back to the United States and ended a tax break for companies moving operations overseas.”

    Petey – Orly? Bill number please.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  95. “If you go through Romney’s statements with a fine tooth comb I’m sure you can find some questionable statements but they simply don’t compare to Obama’s outrageous mendacity.”

    Interesting definition of “outrageous”.

    First, you judge Romney’s claim to be false.

    Now in comparison:

    “OTOH the pathological liar Obama always says that there are tax breaks for moving jobs overseas, something he just made up out of thin air.”

    See my reply to this in 84.

    “Likewise he continually says he inherited the enormous deficits from Bush based on the 2009 FY….He signed the 2009 budget, which was passed by a Congress controlled by his party.”

    The federal fiscal year lasts from October 1 to September 30 (It ended on June 30 prior to 1976). So, the 2009 fiscal year ended in September of 2009, eight months after Bush left office. When Obama was sworn into office, Bush had already submitted his 3.1 trillion dollar 2009 budget almost a year earlier. He then signed the stack of resulting appropriations bills submitted to him by Congress throughout 2008 which authorized the federal spending that would take place once the 2009 FY actually began in October. Then, in the fall of 2008, Bush supported and signed additional spending bills providing for various bailouts and stimulus programs that marked the end of his presidency, and which would show up as spending in 2009. Needless to say, the already-enormous 2009 budget that Bush had submitted in early 2008 was not totally reflective of the full impact of the huge spending increases that would eventually be authorized by Bush. Bush’s original budget was $3.1 trillion, but once one adds in all the bailouts and stimulus spending also supported by Bush, the number is actually much larger, and this is the number that shows up in the spending figures now being attributed to Obama for FY2009.

    Another great example of the Wingnut mind: Take a few claims from each side, mix them together into a batter so that they all seem equivalent, then add a huge dash of ODS, then pop it in the hate oven to cook for a while until….DING! Out comes the I Hate Obama Cake!

    Disgusting.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  96. Are you NOT a mormon?

    No, I am not, and never claimed to be, you clown.

    JD (318f81)

  97. Likewise he continually says he inherited the enormous deficits from Bush based on the 2009 FY. Leaving aside the obvious fact he’s proposed zippo to bring them down, which he could any time he wants, he didn’t inherit it from Bush. He signed the 2009 budget, which was passed by a Congress controlled by his party.

    Tillman’s argument, near as I can follow it, is that the CBO estimated the 2009 deficit to be $1.19 trillion right as Obama was being inaugurated. So in his mind it is perfectly OK that Obama jacked that 2009 deficit up to $1.4 trillion, then codified those deficit levels for the remainder of his first term. If you can’t quite figure out how this is supposed to reflect well on Obama, well, neither can I.

    JVW (f5695c)

  98. “Well if that’s true, then WHY THE HECK DIDN’T OBAMA SEND A BILL TO CONGRESS AS SOON AS HE TOOK OFFICE!”

    So now he’s a Liar for NOT doing something???

    LOL..keep it up, but remember…In space, no one can hear you scream.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  99. There is only one hater here, Tillman, and it is you.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  100. “No, I am not, and never claimed to be, you clown.”

    LDS then.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  101. Petey – Are you not a moron?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  102. 96. “Petey – Orly? Bill number please.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/19/politics/senate-bring-jobs-home-bill-blocked/index.html

    Washington (CNN) — Senate Republicans on Thursday blocked the No.1 item on the president’s congressional “to-do-list,” refusing to allow a vote on a bill that would give tax breaks for companies that “insource” jobs to the U.S. from overseas while eliminating tax deductions for companies that move jobs abroad.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  103. “Petey – Are you not a moron?”

    No, I am the Angel Moroni…LOL.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  104. Illman is using that BS marketwatch/mediamatterz drivel as support for it’s lies. Shocking, I tell you. You really should quote someone when you are doing a copypasta.

    JD (318f81)

  105. Anybody else ever try to drag a cat off a shake roof during a forest fire?
    Comment by Steve57 — 10/11/2012 @ 11:14 am

    That’s a great word picture, I’ll try to remember it, as I go back to work on the shingles on the sides of my house.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  106. Not LDS either. You really are a clown. And a lying liar.

    JD (318f81)

  107. Facts never checked in 2008:

    Foreign policy expert Biden: France and the US kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon.

    Judiciary Committee Chairman Biden: (after Palin correctly asserts that Article I of the US Constitution is about Congress) “You ninny, everyone knows Article I is about the Executive.”

    Facts checked: Palin could see Russia from her house (said by Tina Fey, not Palin).

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  108. “Illman is using that BS marketwatch/mediamatterz drivel as support for it’s lies.”

    Again with the summary dismissal of evidence that doesn’t support it’s pathetic delusional world view.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  109. “Facts never checked in 2008:”

    ROFLMFAO!

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  110. “No, I am the Angel Moroni…LOL.”

    Oh, good, religious bigotry.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  111. _____________________________________________

    If “growing up” means turning into an angry bigoted delusional moron,

    I’m really not trying to be sarcastic when I write: LOL.

    In political discussions here, I have a hard time framing the type of comments you or other like-minded people express as originating from anyone but a young kid. IOW, I often envision people like you as being a bratty teenager, or a college-aged kid still full of the BS from his college professor. It’s therefore amusing but not necessarily pathetic.

    However, when a liberal actually is as old as a gray-haired intellectual spouting off on some university campus, then it becomes both unpleasantly fascinating and ludicrous. Then it becomes similar to watching an old person suffering from senility, which in notable cases involves people re-living past moments in their life, including from their youth. Or sort of age regression.

    Liberalism in older people is a form of age regression. Call it ideological senility.

    Mark (6d5e0d)

  112. Tillman’s argument, near as I can follow it, is that the CBO estimated the 2009 deficit to be $1.19 trillion

    That is only the beginning of it’s mendacity. It ignores the role of the Dems from 2006 forward. It ignores TARP. It ignores the actual budget proposed by Bush. And it ignores the “stimulus” that has since been baselined.

    JD (318f81)

  113. JD, SPQR, daleyrocks, and some others who have been around for a while: is Tillman a resurrection of wheeler’s cat, or is this just the cookie-cutter leftist troll that this blog attracts?

    JVW (f5695c)

  114. “Not LDS either.”

    OK, I give up on trying to find a “religious” basis for your ignorance and stupidity then…your support of Mitt must be based on a Faith even more delusional than religion.

    But in supporting him you do tacitly also support the things HE believes in, such as Lying for the Lord. Making you a double-dupe.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  115. or is this just the cookie-cutter leftist troll that this blog attracts?

    This one has been here under other names, but it is not wheelers/nishi.

    JD (318f81)

  116. Then, in the fall of 2008, Bush supported and signed additional spending bills providing for various bailouts and stimulus programs that marked the end of his presidency, and which would show up as spending in 2009.

    That doesn’t help Obama’s case moonbat. The bailouts are long over with. They have no impact on the current budgets and haven’t for years now. Likewise the recession was hitting a nadir in 2009. That automatically boosts the deficit. The recession is said to be over so that contributing element if gone now. Of course if you want to claim it’s not over feel free to do so.

    As JVW points out Obama added to the 2009 deficit after taking office.

    The bottom line is other than possibly the effect of his tax cut for people making over $200k/$250k, which is not huge, BUSH CANNOT PLAUSIBLY BE CONNECTED WITH CURRENT TRILLION DOLLAR PLUS DEFICITS. PERIOD. Obama’s constant claims that it has to do with Bush are total BS.

    Gerald A (138c50)

  117. Illman tacitly acknowledges that it is a serial liar.

    JD (318f81)

  118. “And it ignores the “stimulus” that has since been baselined.”

    No such thing. Stimulus is spent and done…jobs boost that it produced are over, should have been larger, more spending and less tax cuts weighted, and gone on for longer.

    But of course Republicans blocked all efforts to improve the economy just so morons like you could scream about how bad Obama’s record has been. Well, I’ll agree with you on one point: he has been a failure…he’s failed, utterly, to ensure the blame for this mess was placed squarely where it should be.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  119. “Then, in the fall of 2008, Bush supported and signed additional spending bills providing for various bailouts and stimulus programs that marked the end of his presidency, and which would show up as spending in 2009.”

    Petey – Sorry to burst your bubble, but Congress kept the government operating in the fall of 2008 with continuing resolutions at the fiscal 2008 level. TARP and other bailouts were booked using questionable accounting in my opinion at a fraction of their actual cash outlays, which made the fiscal 2009 deficit look better not worse.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  120. And it ignores the “stimulus” that has since been baselined.
    Comment by JD — 10/11/2012 @ 11:31 am

    I’m assuming that is a main reason why the Dems haven’t passed a budget, they just do continuing resolutions on an inflated base. So even the discussion of whether we need “another stimulus package” is misleading in that essentially one has already been funded annually, do I have that right?

    Maybe in the debate tonight Ryan can ask Biden how it has been going, being the “sheriff” on those stimulus funds, and finally letting us know the address of the website he promised to have up to show us where the money was going.

    Yeah, looking forward to getting that info, finally.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  121. “BUSH CANNOT PLAUSIBLY BE CONNECTED WITH CURRENT TRILLION DOLLAR PLUS DEFICITS. PERIOD.”

    Do you think you’re Mitt Romney debating Obama now? That yelling makes something true? LOL….you have a lot to learn about budgets and the economy if you believe this propaganda.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  122. I truly hope that Biden comes out claiming everything Ryan says is a lie and refuses to respond to the issues. The American people are one of the better bulls**t detectors on the planet, and removing the press’s protective filter lets that come into play.

    Thwarting that BS detector seems to be the press’s main job these days.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  123. “I’m assuming that is a main reason why the Dems haven’t passed a budget, they just do continuing resolutions on an inflated base. So even the discussion of whether we need “another stimulus package” is misleading in that essentially one has already been funded annually, do I have that right?”

    Of course you don’t, your source for this misinformation is likely Wingnut Media and places like this.

    Stimulus spending is done, gone, kaput, over. It is an Ex-Stimulus.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  124. “The American people are one of the better bulls**t detectors on the planet,

    I sincerely hope so, because if this is true Republicans are certainly doomed.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  125. Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 11:38 am

    What part of not passing a budget and huge deficits is wrong, oh enlightened one?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  126. It just boggles the mind that all those temporary census-taker jobs in 2010 didn’t lead to an immediate rebound of our economy.

    JVW (f5695c)

  127. also support the things HE believes in, such as Lying for the Lord.

    Tillman is the kind of pinhead bigot who attacked JFK as a tool of the Pope. Prolificly mendacious and irredeemably hateful.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  128. you have a lot to learn about budgets and the economy if you believe this propaganda.

    Because we can all be confident that Tillman (1) has worked in the private sector, (2) has been in charge of a budget larger than his household one, (3) understands how a market economy works, (4) respects private property and free enterprise.

    JVW (f5695c)

  129. Petey @102 – From your link:

    “The Bring Jobs Home Act would provide a 20% tax break for the costs of moving jobs back to the United States and would rescind business expense deductions available to companies that are associated with the cost of moving operations overseas.”

    Confirms what I said above. Obama want to pick and choose winners in the economy and deny normal business expense deductions on a selective basis to certain companies. These are not “special tax breaks” for moving jobs overseas, they are deductions allowed for any company relocating a facility. Just more dishonest from the Dems.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  130. So even the discussion of whether we need “another stimulus package” is misleading in that essentially one has already been funded annually, do I have that right?

    Yes. However it would be politically unpalatable for them to actually pass their desired budgets, so they have ignored the law since 2009.

    JD (318f81)

  131. How does one blog attract so many marginal personalities like this troll Tillman?

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  132. “Tillman is the kind of pinhead bigot who attacked JFK as a tool of the Pope. Prolificly mendacious and irredeemably hateful.”

    Bzzzzt, WRONG! I do agree that all religions are delusional, but have you ever read ANYTHING about Mormonism (you know, the life-long cult…er, religion, of the Republican Presidential nominee that he gives a substantial portion of his annual income)…it’s LOONY TUNES.

    Your candidate believes in the Angel Moroni. You are planning to vote for this whackjob. What does that make you?

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  133. The stimulus, plus the three rounds of QE, that’s at least 1.6 trillion

    narciso (ee31f1)

  134. “Yes. However it would be politically unpalatable for them to actually pass their desired budgets, so they have ignored the law since 2009.”

    And this thing called “JD” from Utah (who is not a Mormon or LDS, really!) has the temerity to call others LIARS when it promulgates easily disproven lies like this.

    SHOW US the money, little JD. PROVE that this “baseline budgeting” fantasy is real? Or, STFU.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  135. One question I would have asked in debate:

    “Mr. President, you’ve been printing $1 trillion in new dollars every year. How come we don’t have anything to show for it?”

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  136. Manic lying trolls show how panicked the Left is.

    JD (318f81)

  137. And this thing called “JD” from Utah

    Lie

    JD (318f81)

  138. “These are not “special tax breaks” for moving jobs overseas, they are deductions allowed for any company relocating a facility. Just more dishonest from the Dems.”

    Now we’re redefining English to support false charges of dishonesty…pathetic, obvious and FAIL.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  139. Even atheists believe in stupid things. As you constantly remind us, Tillman.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  140. For that to have been a lie, illman, you should be able to point us to budget passed since 2009.

    JD (318f81)

  141. #121

    Explain exactly what Bush did that has prevented Obama from reducing budget deficits moonbat.

    Also while we’re on the subject of mendacity explain Obama’s and his administration’s comments concerning the effect of the video on the Libya attacks. It’s one of the most breathtaking examples of coordinated lying I’ve ever seen.

    Gerald A (138c50)

  142. Here is a link regarding the accounting for TARP.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  143. Obama and the Left have been making up fantasies about Romney for a year now, and when his actual beliefs don’t match their fevered dreams, they call this “lying.”

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  144. “Lie”

    Have seen several Barcky ads here in Utah. Not one Romney ad.

    Comment by JD — 10/8/2012 @ 8:11 pm

    Depends on what you mean by “from”, eh JD?

    And it CANNOT be a lie, btw, unless I KNOW FOR A FACT that you are from Utah. I do not, it is speculation.

    GET IT FOOL???

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  145. “Also while we’re on the subject of mendacity explain Obama’s and his administration’s comments concerning the effect of the video on the Libya attacks. It’s one of the most breathtaking examples of coordinated lying I’ve ever seen.”

    For a lie to be a lie, the liar must KNOW they are making a demonstrably false claim.

    NO ONE knew for sure what the exact “cause” of the attacks were, still cannot say this for certainty.

    But you must think YOU know in order to believe your charge.

    Like I said, the wingnut definition for a LIE is context- and party-dependent, clearly.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  146. Have seen several Barcky ads here in Utah. Not one Romney ad.

    Comment by JD — 10/8/2012 @ 8:11 pm

    Depends on what you mean by “from”, eh JD?

    And it CANNOT be a lie, btw, unless I KNOW FOR A FACT that you are from Utah. I do not, it is speculation.

    I will type slowly for you. I am not from Utah. I am not Mormon. I am not LDS.

    JD (9ace9f)

  147. Petey – I think you need some of Bob Dole’s pills, because you’ve got nothing going on here.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  148. . . . have you ever read ANYTHING about Mormonism (you know, the life-long cult…er, religion, of the Republican Presidential nominee that he gives a substantial portion of his annual income)…it’s LOONY TUNES.

    Yeah, they’re just awful. Low divorce rates, stable families, avoidance of tobacco, alcohol, and drugs, community-spirited, civic-minded, charitable, supportive of education. Why, these Mormons are a cancer, I tells ya!

    JVW (f5695c)

  149. “I will type slowly for you. I am not from Utah. I am not Mormon. I am not LDS.”

    And I will also do the same for you:

    You don’t know what “lying” means.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  150. It’s been quite a while since I’ve seen such an aggressive, offensive and prolix troll as P-Dilly.

    Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b)

  151. “For a lie to be a lie, the liar must KNOW they are making a demonstrably false claim.”

    Petey – Is this sort of like for a tax cut to be a tax cut somebody must wind up paying lower taxes?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  152. “Yeah, they’re just awful. Low divorce rates, stable families, avoidance of tobacco, alcohol, and drugs, community-spirited, civic-minded, charitable, supportive of education. ”

    Just like North Korea, eh?

    You forgot the part about Lying for the Lord, the Angel Moroni, and numerous other lunatic ideas.

    Many cults or authoritarian societies exhibit exactly the qualities you seem to think are the only important ones for judging a movement.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  153. Apparently I do not know where I live. Or what church
    I attend.

    JD (9ace9f)

  154. Just like North Korea, eh?

    Well, if the Democratic Party is North Korea without the self-discipline, then maybe Mormons are North Korea without the totalitarian socialism. And if it is cults that you are worried about, I would rather have one worship a god who dwells apart from us than worship a mortal with a teleprompter. The latter is bound to cause a whole lot more trouble.

    JVW (f5695c)

  155. “Or what church I attend.”

    Do you support Lying for the Lord?

    Do you think you will become a God someday?

    I don’t think either of these qualities is desirable for a leader of people, do you?

    THE STRAITNESS OF THE WAY. Mortality is the testing or proving ground for exaltation to find out who among the children of God are worthy to become Gods themselves, and the Lord has informed us that “few there be that find it.”

    Translation: Mitt thinks he is a God on Earth, and acts like it. I would think this blasphemous to anyone who genuinely believes in the principles of most other religions.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  156. “I would rather have one worship a god who dwells apart from us than worship a mortal with a teleprompter.”

    Too bad for you that those who worship gods are also more likely to also worship “mortals”.

    P. Tillman (fcbc8b)

  157. SQUIRRELS!!!!!!

    JD (9ace9f)

  158. Well, if the topic of this post is “Lowering Expectations” it has certainly kept to that.

    It has done a terrific job of lowering my expectation of enjoying any thread occupied by P-Dilly.

    Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b)

  159. Don’t you mean “Rush injects”? As in drugs. Anyone citing this drugged out hateful pedophile has to be brain damaged.
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 10:02 am

    – Don’t you EVER get tired of being an idiot? WE certainly get tired of it.

    I’m not sure what you mean by “lowering expectations” of Ryan…I am fully expecting him to come out and lie about nearly everything. Let’s see if he even admits to being “Paul Ryan” or that his running mate is “Mitt Romney”.
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 9:43 am

    – That the most obvious piece of sarcasm ever written sails above your brain-pan is . . . well, most obvious.

    A lying delusional ideologue who lives in a world of their own creation and thinks that everyone else MUST also.
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 10:07 am

    – Excuse me, but this thread is not about Obama . . . or you.

    The levels of delusion around Wingnuttia are simply breathtaking.
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 10:10 am

    – Coffee’s a-brewin’; time to wakey-wakey.

    But compared to what Obama inherited, the annual deficit has gone down slightly. CBO projects that for fiscal 2012, which has just ended, the fiscal 2012 deficit will be $1.09 trillion.
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 10:17 am

    – And a $1.09 trillion deficit for one fiscal year is acceptable because WHY?

    is there something you are all trying to hide? The atheism maybe? The lunacy? The sex?
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 10:29 am

    – Yes. Paul Ryan is secretly an atheist, and we’ve all volunteered to help him with the coverup. You’ve successfully outed us, and now were gonna have to scramble around to find a last-minute replacement while you run off and tell Ed Schultz what you’ve discovered. Off you go . . .

    Icy (d35969)

  160. Petey – Snoopy Dance time, from Gateway Pundit:

    “In a shock development – The Chicago Tribune endorsed Republican Tim Wolfe over commie Jan Schakowsky.”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  161. I’m archiving this thread for posterity…thanks all for your input.
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 11:02 am

    – Feel free to archive YOUR input in your posterior.

    JD: “No, I am not, and never claimed to be, you clown.”
    LDS then.
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 11:24 am

    – Make sure you archive this one! *face palm*

    I’ll agree with you on one point: he has been a failure…he’s [Obama] failed, utterly, to ensure the blame for this mess was placed squarely where it should be.
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 11:35 am

    – He should prove that he’s in-charge by insisting that he HASN’T been in-charge for the past four years? Paging Mr. Axelrod . . .

    Do you think you’re Mitt Romney debating Obama now? That yelling makes something true?
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 11:37 am

    – By all means, please enlighten us as to WHERE Romney ‘yelled’ during the debate. Go!

    Your candidate believes in the Angel Moroni. You are planning to vote for this whackjob. What does that make you?
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 11:45 am

    – Your candidate ATE A DOG. What does that make YOU?

    And this thing called “JD” from Utah (who is not a Mormon or LDS, really!) has the temerity to call others LIARS when it promulgates easily disproven lies like this.
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 11:47 am

    – Me and the JD from Indiana both know that Utah isn’t 100% Mormon (or LDS *eye roll*) . . . really.

    Icy (d35969)

  162. How much does OFA pay Tillman for being a troll on Patterico?

    509th Bob (4ae072)

  163. Too bad for you that those who worship gods are also more likely to also worship “mortals”.
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 12:09 pm

    – 100% wrong. See: Chris “he’s a perfect husband, a perfect father” Matthews, all of the “halo pictures” of Obama, “Camelot”, etc.

    Icy (d35969)

  164. But compared to what Obama inherited, the annual deficit has gone down slightly. CBO projects that for fiscal 2012, which has just ended, the fiscal 2012 deficit will be $1.09 trillion.

    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 10:17 am

    In order to believe that comment, you have to be delusional – though it would appear that your believe the libyan embassy attack was spontaneous, you likely believe that OJ will lead us to the real killer and that the killian memos were authentic.

    Joe-Dallas (ea8609)

  165. P.Tillman just piles lie on lie. Obama did not “inherit” FY09 deficit. Obama signed the 09 budget himself because Bush wasn’t presented with it before leaving office. Then Obama pushed for a nakedly partisan pork “stimulus” bill that actually cost more jobs than it created.

    Obama owns the huge trillion plus deficits. Obama and 0.Tillman are the liars.

    SPQR (adc2e1)

  166. Aside from the Silly Tilly nonsense on this thread, I am disappointed that in the interest of journalistic investigation, Patterico neglected to include Very Important Photographic Support of exactly *why* the expectations of Paul Ryan can only be lowered, not raised.

    Dana (292dcf)

  167. Dana has been collecting herself some VP cheesecake. ;-)

    SPQR (adc2e1)

  168. All in the name of journalistic integrity, SPQR.

    Dana (292dcf)

  169. The important thing about a person’s religious beliefs in terms of elected office is the impact it will have on their values and priorities in decision making.

    I don’t care if Romney believes in the tooth fairy and leprechauns, as long as he doesn’t figure them into how he proposes to fund a budget that is actually passed through Congress and then signed into law.

    Other than that, knowing that Obama wants to abandon a role in world affairs and is happy making the US more impoverished, as long as all get more impoverished, it would be a hard call for my vote between Obama and Charles Manson. At least when Manson wanted to do something crazy the press would inform us about it and the Congress would not only vote against it, but impeach his behind after defying the Constitution by ruling through executive order instead of through the legislative process.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  170. Dana–it seems to me that if it is considered perfectly reasonable in some circles to vote for a person solely on the basis of the candidate’s ethnicity or sexual orientation, there is nothing wrong with voting for someone because he is buff.

    elissa (2746ba)

  171. The question that many have had in the back of their minds is if and when the Obamaites would hit Mormonism as a reason to attack Romney, since nothing else is working.

    I guess we answered that one.

    Yes, let’s have a discussion about the religious views of the two presidential candidates. Let’s hear clips from the last 4 sermons (or whatever they do) in Romney’s congregation and from the last 4 of Reverend Wright. Yes, lets do that. Thanks for bringing it up, illman. Almost as good as bringing up the 47% in a debate to be rebutted.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  172. Comment by elissa — 10/11/2012 @ 2:01 pm

    All I can say is that the Repubs have outdone the Dems at VP and at “Second spouse” for 2 elections running when it comes to, um, physical attractiveness.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  173. Mormonism versus Wrightism.

    nk (875f57)

  174. nk, you can verify that Ryan has the typical physique for a man from Wisconsin, right? It’s the beer and bratwurst that does it.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  175. elissa, I’ve always found you to be extremely bright and insightful!

    Dana (292dcf)

  176. Tell us again the Dept. of Labor isn’t in the tank for Down Low.

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/10/labor-department-reports-stunning-10-drop-in-jobless-claims-after-large-state-is-not-counted/

    Cali didn’t have anyone left to operate a calculator.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  177. Mormonism is surely a non-starter (if we’re being honest) – when was Harry Reid ever questioned, doubted, suspected, etc. re his Mormon beliefs? While not a presidential candidate, he has been a lifelong politician with an increasing amount of power and persuasion that has impacted voters for years.

    Dana (292dcf)

  178. 132. Touche. However, it leaves me 2^2 times smarter than you, divot.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  179. You see, doing curls with the right arm is training for raising the beer stein. One also uses a spring to develop hand grip, to prevent brats from slipping out of a mittenned hand in February.

    Speaking for brats in February, is Wisconsin men and women’s hockey doing an outdoor thing in Chicago this year? Did I see that? May be time for a PP convention.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  180. I think the shelf life of them painting Mitt as some sort of evil Mormon cultist expired a couple months ago when the product didn’t sell.

    elissa (2746ba)

  181. The Hockey City Classic will showcase an outdoor college hockey doubleheader at Soldier Field on Feb. 17, 2013. The puck drops at noon CT when Notre Dame faces off against Miami University, followed immediately by Minnesota vs. Wisconsin at approximately 3:30 p.m. CT.

    In Madison a few years ago they had a double header outside with the men’s then women’s teams. Hey, with Miami and Wisconsin both in it, VP Ryan should be there. Ladies, bring your pictures and get an autograph!!

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  182. That would be a fun day to get together, MD.

    JD (9ace9f)

  183. I think the shelf life of them painting Mitt as some sort of evil Mormon cultist expired a couple months ago when the product didn’t sell.

    These are people who are still flogging socialism.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  184. Kevin M – they think Socialisms will work if you do it harder, faster, and deeper.

    JD (9ace9f)

  185. That’s not quite what I meant when I said “still flogging socialism”, but close.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  186. The appeal to anti-Mormon bigotry is right on schedule for the Obama campaign.

    SPQR (768505)

  187. P. Tillman sees the writing on the wall, and he’s frustrated.
    He knows that the American people aren’t buying the Orwellian notion that Obama is good for the country.

    Big Bird. Birth control. Ann Romney’s horse. Fair share. Rich people. Racists.

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  188. Comment by Elephant Stone — 10/11/2012 @ 3:38 pm

    Big Bird is on birth control, did you say!?!?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  189. Well, now that Billy Graham has endorsed Mitt, that should alleviate the whole Mormon concern…

    Dana (292dcf)

  190. Ben LaBolt tried to claim Team OOOOh was not talking about Big Bird.

    JD (9ace9f)

  191. I don’t know, narciso, I think some of the ever-acquiescing Republicans should take note of Cutter’s resolve – no matter that she’s a liar. She is committed to her point of view and come hell or high water, she will stick to it like glue. The only time I’ve seen her give was post-debate confrontation on CNN when she admitted it wasn’t 5 trillion. She’s certainly the very definition of chutzpah.

    Dana (292dcf)

  192. That’a true, they are willing to pull a Constanza, whereas we’ve had at least two times, re the 47% and the subsequent criticism of the Libyan scandal, that they’ve backtracked from the truth.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  193. Big Bird is on birth control, did you say!?!?

    Comment by MD in Philly — 10/11/2012 @ 3:52 pm

    No, but Big Bird is dating Sandra Fluke on the rumor Obama is going to make Georgetown pay for it.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  194. The Bad Charles Johnson at Little Green Fools Footballs is hyperventillating about a secret video from 2009 where Mitt Romney introduced Glenn Beck as a featured speaker at a law school seminar as, “a stateman in his own right.”

    I know, right ? You’d think Romney had introduced Rashid Khalidi or something !

    Or you’d think that ol’ Chuckie was reacting with the passion of someone who was upset that the US Ambassador to Libya had been brutally murdered by terrorists.

    Seriously, it’s a month away from an election, and Romney introducing Beck at a speech is the best card that aging hippie Chuckie can play ?

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  195. Paul Ryan’s practice debate opponent has been Ted Olsen. (Which makes me just squee, I’m a big Ted Olsen fan – he’s presented scores of cases before the Supreme Court)

    But its a poor choice, since Ted Olsen is not brain damaged, and Olsen speaks in full complete sentences.

    And Ted Olsen does not think his father was a Welsh coal miner.

    SPQR (768505)

  196. Are you saying that Big Bird would have been a more appropriate choice for Ryan’s practice debate opponent, SPQR?

    Dana (292dcf)

  197. That;s a tough assignment, SPQR, how do you find a reasonable parallel to Biden,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  198. Is it true that Obama has promised to appoint Big Bird as head of the FCC if he can come through with a spike in credit card donations during Sesame Street?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  199. I’m blowing off a fairly important business meeting this evening to stay home and watch the debate. It better be good!

    As far as Dem “resolve” and “stick toitiveness”–it’s one thing for them to try to spin or confuse people with complex math, false promises, or with projections, deficit figures etc. But when Wasserman-Schultz flat out lies about what the Israeli ambassador said, is caught, and then denies that she ever said what she said (even after being confronted with the actual tape)– and when Cutter blatantly lies about the conflicting administration statements which the American people have with their own eyes and ears been watching on the news since 9/11/12, it’s highly insulting and turns off decent people regardless of their politics. It makes us think, “if they’re lying about this that we know about, what else is the administration lying about?” Not very good campaign strategy for the Dems, IMO.

    elissa (2746ba)

  200. It makes us think, “if they’re lying about this that we know about, what else is the administration lying about?” Not very good campaign strategy for the Dems, IMO.
    Comment by elissa — 10/11/2012 @ 4:48 pm

    Seeing Al Gore do that against Bush in 2000 was the beginning of my paying attention to politics. If nothing else, I can withhold my vote from a pathological liar.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  201. The final Congressional Budget Office baseline deficit projection before Obama took office

    Sorry, buddy, but Obama was in Congress when the democrat deficit era began (really 2006).

    Check his voting record. He liked the spending and he is responsible for it.

    Dustin (73fead)

  202. Dustin – kind of like how they wail about the prescription drug benefit, when their main objections were that it did not go far enough.

    JD (318f81)

  203. Exactly, JD!

    Dustin (73fead)

  204. Yes, and if trees sprouted gold leaves we’d all be rich rich rich!

    Oh dear. Adam Smith exploded that myth 236 years ago.

    Milhouse (ff6771)

  205. “Ayn Rand without becoming a Randian, just as you can read Lord of the Rings without becoming a hobbit.”

    That’s actually funny…except Ryan walks, talks and acts like a Randian as well.

    You mean like when he goes to mass? Or when he proposes budgets that increase welfare spending above current levels?

    Milhouse (ff6771)

  206. Four years ago Biden bullshitted his way through his debate with Palin. Palin got every single fact correct; Biden made things up as he went along. But he looked like he knew what he was talking about, whereas Palin was handicapped by the need to stick to what she knew to be the truth, so she appeared more tentative.

    One area this came out was in their different claims about what the VP’s constitution role is. It was easy to tell that Biden got his knowledge from observing multiple actual VPs and seeing what they did, while Palin got hers from actually reading the constitution. Thus her idea of how she would handle the position was completely in line with the constitution, which she got right every time she cited it, but was rather different from what recent VPs have done. Biden knew what VPs do, and imagined that that must be what the constitution prescribes, so he claimed that it was there, and threw in a spurious reference “Article 1″ because it made him sound like he knew what he was talking about.

    Milhouse (ff6771)

  207. Ah, Milhouse, you spending your time refuting P.Tillman the incompetent troll is like using a 155mm artillery battery to swat a horse fly.

    SPQR (768505)

  208. 77. Petey – Can you explain Obama’s repeated references to tax credits for moving jobs overseas?

    Comment by daleyrocks — 10/11/2012 @ 11:06 am

    the law currently allows a company that closes its American plant and moves manufacturing operations overseas to deduct that moving expense.

    Well, duh. Of course it does. How could it not allow a legitimate business expense to be deducted? What should it do? Tax a company on money it didn’t make?!

    And what on ghu’s green earth has any of that got to do with a tax credit? Do you actually know what a tax credit is?

    Milhouse (ff6771)

  209. The answer to your last question is “no”, Milhouse. P.Tillman does not know the difference between tax credits and tax deductions.

    Denizens of mom’s basements don’t file taxes much.

    SPQR (768505)

  210. swat a horse fly.
    Comment by SPQR — 10/11/2012 @ 5:46 pm

    One heck of an irritating one, though, SPQR.

    That would be a fun day to get together, MD.

    Comment by JD — 10/11/2012 @ 2:31 pm

    I was just thinking, not sure if a gathering of PP participants in Chicago in February will be safe… ;-)

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  211. This was in our local ‘alternative’ fishwrap, where those notions, germinate;

    http://ctj.org/ctjinthenews/2012/10/the_village_voice_the_10_most_corrupt_tax_loopholes.php

    narciso (ee31f1)

  212. Milhouse, your line of reasoning has been put in front of illman at least twice,
    ["These are not “special tax breaks” for moving jobs overseas, they are deductions allowed for any company relocating a facility. Just more dishonest from the Dems.”]
    and this was his response:

    Now we’re redefining English to support false charges of dishonesty…pathetic, obvious and FAIL.
    Comment by P. Tillman — 10/11/2012 @ 11:49 am

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  213. MD in Philly, evidently all English above a seventh grade level is “redefinition” to P.T.

    SPQR (768505)

  214. Possibilities for who Tillman really is:

    1. Robert Gibbs
    2. some low-rent flunky on the payroll of George Soros
    3. Patterico having a huge laugh at our expense (does anyone recall P. ever directly engaging Tillman?)
    4. Some disaffected college kid with way too much free time
    5. Michael Hiltzik
    6. Helen Thomas, now that she has nothing to do

    Any other suggestions?

    JVW (a56adb)

  215. Obama’s green jobs – the public records of the $21 billion spent so far through 19 U.S. Department of Energy programs reveals 3,960 projects that employ 28,854 people.

    almost $728,000 per job in subsidies at that rate of job creation

    SPQR (768505)

  216. JVW, he’s stupid enough of a liar to be Jay Carney.

    SPQR (768505)

  217. Petey – Is this sort of like for a tax cut to be a tax cut somebody must wind up paying lower taxes?

    And like for a spending cut to be a spending cut, less money must be spent for some purpose in one year than was spent for that purpose in the previous year?

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  218. Don’t you mean “Rush injects”? As in drugs.

    Liar. I have never even heard anyone accuse him of injecting drugs until you did just now.

    drugged out hateful pedophile

    Looking in the mirror, are you? Or are you referring to Harry Reid? Because you have absolutely no foundation for making such a wicked accusation against Limbaugh. You are a piece of filth for doing that.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  219. Excellent goods from you, man. I have understand your stuff prior to and you are simply extremely great. I actually like what you’ve bought right here, really like what you are saying and the way in which you say it. You make it enjoyable and you still care for to stay it wise. I can not wait to learn much more from you. That is really a wonderful site.

    link ten (4c2a9a)

  220. Another hilarious spam comment more coherent than the trolls.

    SPQR (768505)


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