Patterico's Pontifications

9/19/2012

Convicted Murderer: I’m Too Fat to Be Executed

Filed under: Crime — Patterico @ 6:50 pm

Just when you thought you’d heard every argument against executing someone comes this:

Lawyers for a 480-pound death row inmate in Ohio say their client is too overweight to be put to death.

“Indeed, given his unique physical and medical condition there is a substantial risk that any attempt to execute him will result in serious physical and psychological pain to him, as well as an execution involving a torturous and lingering death,” reads the filing made on behalf of Ronald Post, 53, who was convicted of shooting to death hotel clerk Helen Vantz 29 years ago.

Post, who is set to be executed by lethal injection on January 16, 2013, says that his executioners would encounter several problems, including difficulty finding a viable vein for injection and the likelihood that with his unusual weight he would break any gurney used in the process.

He wasn’t too fat to kill the victim . . .

141 Responses to “Convicted Murderer: I’m Too Fat to Be Executed”

  1. How much is it costing taxpayers to feed this killer?

    Patterico (83033d)

  2. They’re worried about a “torturous and lingering death”? That’s easily solved. Dig a foxhole. Lay him in the foxhole with his head resting on a claymore mine. Step waaay back and set off the claymore. Entire head instantly reduced to tiny fragments.

    pst314 (49d034)

  3. I say don’t feed him until he is slim enough to kill.

    Problem solved.

    Aaron "Worthing" Walker (23789b)

  4. 29 years of justice delayed.

    What an abomination.

    Dustin (73fead)

  5. I’d just as soon execute the lawyers really

    happyfeet (5e4920)

  6. Marie Antoinette knows how to do it.

    elissa (a6ba83)

  7. Subclavian central line. It works no matter how fat you are. If it’s good enough for patients in ICU who have gone into cardiac arrest, it’s good enough for execution. If he really fears the discomfort, he can take some Versed, orally, an hour before.

    Alternatively, any worker in a slaughterhouse can give him a quick and painless death with a captured bolt pistol to his forehead and a three-inch knife at the base of his skull.

    Yes, I’m evil.

    nk (875f57)

  8. I had this conversation with my daughter, this last weekend. Mama opposes the death penalty. My daughter asked me if I did, too. I tried to keep it simple. She is ten. I said I approve the death penalty for people who hurt women or children. My daughter said but men are people too, you should punish their murderers too.

    nk (875f57)

  9. I’m a CO and actually had an inmate submit a sick call note asking for double portions of food…because -I quote “I’m a big guy at 6 ft 2 265 and I’d like to feel full”… yeah..and the people you victimized would like it if you never committed a crime…you can’t always get what you’d like…well unless you have liberal,bleeding hearts running things-he’ll probably have extra food starting next week. Pfft!

    Pamela (05debc)

  10. chunky was a thick candy bar marketing thing
    thick was the needle of camels eye i
    rachel ray has man hands
    through thick and thin-i tap hold
    thick is good in bricks…2 out of 3 pig homeowners agree

    pdbuttons (2e58a9)

  11. And, BTW, happyfeet, that was unoriginal to the max.

    nk (875f57)

  12. Alternatively, any worker in a slaughterhouse can give him a quick and painless death with a captured bolt pistol to his forehead and a three-inch knife at the base of his skull.

    Yes, I’m evil.

    Comment by nk — 9/19/2012

    That approach may seem crude, but I don’t think it’s evil. We can’t stop a life without doing some kind of violence to it, and the most effective ways of executing someone are more overt, such as a pistol. I don’t think that method is really more cruel. I just think that it’s a little more political costly and those who just want justice will readily trade that for needles if they think they can preserve the institution of the death penalty.

    But I think some kind of severe trauma to the prisoner’s head would be a humane and inexpensive method for carrying out justice.

    Dustin (73fead)

  13. morrissey sayeth-”meat is murder’
    the boy-he ain’t right..i think he’s got a thorn inna his side

    pdbuttons (2e58a9)

  14. Where he’s going he’ll sweat it off anyway.

    ras (be1e0d)

  15. A number of federal bureaucracies are bloated and obese—can we give them the death penalty while we’re at it ?

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  16. It’s funny. In the early ’80s, the anti-death penalty people opposed lethal injection because they thought it too clean and clinical, as opposed to hanging, the electric chair, and the gas chamber, and make it more acceptable. In a way, I’m glad lawyers have found ways to make it “cruel”. But the standard is “cruel and unusual.

    nk (875f57)

  17. Hang him. All that weight, a short drop would be plenty.

    Demonized (51d694)

  18. This guy will have less discomfort than I did with the hole in my femoral artery for the camera to my brain, or the hole in my wrist artery for the anesthesia for my operation. Yes, arteries, not veins.

    nk (875f57)

  19. “He’s too fat for me
    too too fat for me
    I don’t want him, you can have him
    He’s too fat for me”

    - Grim Reaper

    Colonel Haiku (d22210)

  20. And, just to start a blog fight, I agree with a “no women, no children” rule for the death penalty, too.

    nk (875f57)

  21. Hang him. All that weight, a short drop would be plenty.

    Yes, he could stand to drop a few pounds….

    ras (be1e0d)

  22. I’m only against the death penalty because I don’t trust our legal system (prosecutors, judges, legislators, etc) to honestly look for truth and justice.

    But this guy isn’t asking for reprieve for his innocence, just because he is, let me see if I get this right, too unhealthy to die?

    Eff that noise. Even I say they should dip him in a vat of batter before they strap him in to old sparky. Kentucky Fried Criminals.

    Ghost (6f9de7)

  23. Surely we euthanize horses and other larger animals all the time. This is a stupid issue.

    Dustin (73fead)

  24. Get the Vet from the local zoo to come put him down. I’m sure it would be like putting an elephant to sleep. Or use him as a fund raiser…strap him to a pole and sell tickets for people to shoot him with a 22 short until he’s dead.

    RiderInTheNight (29e95f)

  25. Which leads me to a bleg. I have been microwaving bacon, recently. Turns out good. But does anybody know how to get the bacon smell out of the microwave?

    nk (875f57)

  26. A .22 short won’t go in more than a 1/2 inch RiderInTheNight.

    nk (875f57)

  27. nk
    Here you go.
    http://www.ehow.com/how_6155165_bacon-smell-out-microwave.html
    Also microwaved bacon is 25 calories per slice versus 45 for frying.

    Gazzer (e76ff7)

  28. send microwave
    cod
    africa

    pdbuttons (2e58a9)

  29. Which leads me to a bleg. I have been microwaving bacon, recently. Turns out good. But does anybody know how to get the bacon smell out of the microwave?

    Comment by nk

    Put a 1/2 cup of baking soda in some aluminum foil and mic it for 1 minute.

    [I don't know if this is a joke but I do not recommend putting aluminum foil in a microwave. -- Ed.]

    Colonel Haiku (d22210)

  30. africa pirates
    send that bag thing that makes noise
    i believe its called ‘pop corn’
    or just send non microwave corn
    fritos?
    anything ..really.. i dont wanna beg but..

    pdbuttons (2e58a9)

  31. Gazzer’s approach is pretty similar to how I’ve always cleaned my microwave, except that I just pour some lemon juice into a bowl of water. After it’s been cooked for a few minutes and left for a while, I use a rag dipped into the lemon water to wipe down the microwave.

    Easy and effective.

    Dustin (73fead)

  32. Thank you, Gazzer.

    nk (875f57)

  33. Dustin and Haiku, too. I read and type slow.

    nk (875f57)

  34. pope pops the world stops
    alex jones prison planet
    astronaut diapers

    pdbuttons (2e58a9)

  35. You’re welcome. BTW, foil in the micro is v dangerous and can explode.

    Gazzer (e76ff7)

  36. Short. Language. Violence. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t105tG1Jpd8

    Showed it to the daughter.

    nk (875f57)

  37. Would the authors of the Eighth Amendment considered this to be cruel and unusual?

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  38. Nope.

    Dustin (73fead)

  39. My only complaint about the death penalty is that it takes too long which has removed the deterrent effect.

    Gazzer (e76ff7)

  40. re: #35… goddam it, gazzer. It’s exciting and the funny burnt circuitry smells definitely get rid of the odour (Milhouse influence) of bacon.

    Colonel Haiku (d22210)

  41. always throw the gun at the idiothe/she will catch it..and look at u like’ ?’
    thats a belly laff

    pdbuttons (2e58a9)

  42. My only complaint about the death penalty is that it takes too long which has removed the deterrent effect.

    Comment by Gazzer — 9/19/2012 @ 8:36 pm

    Deterrence, general or specific, is a myth. If you hit me, today, because I did something bad — it is no guarantee I will not do something bad tomorrow. It is much less of a guarantee that our neighbor, who saw you punish me, will not do something bad because he saw you punish me.

    There is incapacitation. Prison or death.

    And there are some crimes so horrible that they must be punished horribly. Retribution.

    nk (875f57)

  43. “Deterrence, general or specific, is a myth.”

    nk – Completely disagree and am with Gazzer. Justice needs to speedier and women should not be exempt.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  44. My only complaint about the death penalty is that it takes too long which has removed the deterrent effect.

    In American history, has it always taken this long?

    If not, what caused it to take so long?

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  45. We need the FLOTUS to start an exercise program with him and other fatties in prison.

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  46. The death penalty IS a deterrent; that person won’t kill anyone ever again.

    If it was crime of passion then they shouldn’t have been charged with 1st degree.

    Premeditated murder of anyone (any gender), murder of LEO, CO == DEATH.

    Deterrence is lost when the time to execute is a generation. I understand no one wants to make a mistake which is why there should be certain classes of murder that get more appeals due to the evidence used to convict.

    multiple eye witnesses, recorded video of act and untainted confession should be 1 appeal to check that all the i’s were dotted and t’s crossed and then off to the noose, or jolt or injection.

    Justice delayed is justice denied.

    Jcw46 (b4329c)

  47. BTW when my sister started out as a lawyer for the States Attorney back East she had to defend these prisoner lawsuits.

    Some of them were pretty damn funny.

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  48. He wasn’t too fat to kill the victim

    You should check what his weight was at the time of the murder before you make such a bold statement.

    As Pamela [9/19/2012 @ 7:21 pm] notes, he probably gained the weight in prison.

    slp (347e33)

  49. The death penalty IS a deterrent; that person won’t kill anyone ever again.

    I call it incapacitation. It’s clearer.

    nk (875f57)

  50. And more honest and less sociological psychobabble.

    nk (875f57)

  51. slp

    Actually do we know how he killed his victim?

    I mean there are some scenarios where being fat is necessary to complete the murder, like sitting on them.

    Btw, to all the fat rights people hoping to find a good test case to get the courts to recognize their rights… this is not the right case for you.

    Aaron "Worthing" Walker (23789b)

  52. Define “justice” for me, please, daleyrocks. Please feel free to quote Aristotle or Christ.

    The law is not justice. It is a hammer. A tool which pounds the nails that hold a society together. No more, no less.

    nk (875f57)

  53. “Define “justice” for me, please, daleyrocks.”

    nk – Define it yourself, since you do not believe punishment serves as a deterrent for other potential wrongdoers.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  54. nk – Quote whoever you want, other than a relative.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  55. Don’t tell me about the law and justice. I’ve seen someone who kidnapped a young couple, raped and sodomized the girl, and then killed both of them, get eighty years. I’ve seen a homeless man who shoplifted $1.18 worth of luncheon meat get three years. I’ve seen someone hitchking on the highway get 364 days. Don’t tell me about law and justice.

    nk (875f57)

  56. Gacy stopped Dahmer? To keep it close to home?

    nk (875f57)

  57. daleyrocks,

    You’re the one who says “justice”. Make it other than “arf-arf”.

    nk (875f57)

  58. .45 dumdum to the back of the head should do it nicely, unless you have a neatness fetish.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  59. I did ask for a blogfight. ;)

    There is no “justice”. Not even as an ideal. Socrates said that it is what makes a person a better person. I suppose killing a criminal or locking him up does make him a better person in relation to society.

    nk (875f57)

  60. And if that’s a problem, a bolt-gun should do it — cows are pretty heavy too.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  61. My only complaint about the death penalty is that it takes too long which has removed the deterrent effect.

    Not in Texas. In California, every court dawdles and the worthless political class lets them.

    There is no doubt that in 1984 and 1985, Richard Ramirez killed at least 14 people. Yet it took over 20 years for California courts to finish with the case. Now, the federal courts are stalling. And even if that happens, there is no chance whatsoever that Governor Brown or the execrable AG Kamala Harris will carry out the sentence.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  62. How soon societies remove some of their members; how drastictally; for what offense; is the definition of those societies.

    “Hello, I’m in Libya, in an operating room, waiting to have my left hand removed for my first theft — I shoplifted a piece of candy. It is an operating room with sterile conditions.”

    nk (875f57)

  63. nk – Don’t tell me about law and justice. I don’t care what you’ve seen and the crappy sentences handed out. I’ve seen them too. You’re not freaking unique. All that means is that justice was not served in individual instances. BFD!

    What do I mean? That the outcome or punishment of breaking the law was not meted out with sufficient swiftness or severity to deter others.

    Now explain yourself blowhard.

    “There is no “justice”. Not even as an ideal.”

    The above is just crap, not an explanation.

    I’m watching a movie, bloviate at yourself.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  64. R.I.P. John Ingle, actor who played Edward Quartermain on General Hospital

    Icy (981d7a)

  65. a 22. short, to the base of the skull at an upward angle will do the trick, as would any other small pistol round. you just need enough energy for it to rattle around inside the skull, without creating an exit wound.

    and, to make it both physically and psychologically painless for the person to be executed, just do what the KGB used to do: walk the prisoner down the hall, as if you are taking them to an interrogation or something, then just cap them in mid stride with no warning.

    /problem solved.
    (and, in case you weren’t sure, yes i support the death penalty. %-)

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  66. “Deterrence, general or specific, is a myth.”

    I’ve said this before, statistically about 40 executions in the US of murderers each year will prevent around 2,100 murders a year. There is a deterrent if the murderers are executed in a timely manner.

    Incidentally, it is my understanding that a person only gets the death penalty in California if there are special circumstances. You know, kill a police officer, torture before killing, killing more than one person and even under those circumstances the prosecutor has the option of not asking for the death penalty.

    Tanny O'Haley (12193c)

  67. I really do not like the idea of lethal injection. It’s too sterile and it fails the yuk factor that is part of the deterrent. Sure, we don’t roll people downhill in white hot barrels anymore, but the electric chair and hanging and such were intended to have a deterrent value in themselves.

    And which of us is guaranteed a painless death? This whole line of decisions is stupider than “medical marijuana”, and that’s a very low bar.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  68. I happen to agree with Patterico that the death penalty should require an “Are you effing sure?” charge to the jury.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  69. stump,axe, and fatso running around without his head.

    mg (44de53)

  70. This isn’t the first time that a death row inmate has tried this tactic to keep from being executed. Look up Rupe vs Wood at the US 9th Circuit. A Washington State inmate by the name of Mitchell Rupe was convicted in 1981 for gunning down two bank tellers during a robbery in Olympia and was going to be hung. During all of his appeal processes he gained weight till he topped the scales at 425 pounds. His lawyers successful appealed that if hung his weight would cause him to be decapitated. Which would be cruel and unsually punishment. The Court agreed and he spent the rest of his life in prison after being re-tried in 2000 before dying of complications from a liver disease.

    Charles (491f81)

  71. Valentines day quotes, barefoot trading, zoxpnz,

    MyeshaSwarm (76dd68)

  72. Get that man to work on a road chain gang for a few months, a la Cool Hand Luke. He’ll slim down, and then be ready to meet The Executioner.

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  73. This may be a record! 72 comments and nobody fed the troll! Congratulations.

    BarSinister (664312)

  74. You know if you went back to hanging, well his head might snap clean off at the bottom of the drop. Near instant death.

    Just me and my Dirty Harry thoughts.

    Comanche Voter (29e1a6)

  75. What troll?

    Icy (981d7a)

  76. Can’t find a vein?
    Give him a few grams of Temazipam sprinkled over twinkies. It’ll kill him and he won’t feel a thing.
    Or…set him free on a South Texas ranch where he’ll be mistaken for a feral hogzilla and shot.

    jasond (0b7791)

  77. Better than temazapam probably would be the old lethal combo of a barbiturate and alcohol. Not a toxicologist, but my understanding is that barbiturates have a much narrower therapeutic window and much greater lethality in overdose than benzos, hence a major reason why benzo’s largely took over for insomnia.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  78. no need to find a vein if you just slap a couple of fentanyl patches on him where he can’t reach them…

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  79. I am just so underwhelmed by the plight of this poor man, that I am rendered entirely speechless – but I do know how to construct a bench that can accommodate a load of in excess of 1/4-ton – which is what the woodworking shop at that prison should be doing as we speak.
    And, if they can’t find a vein, I’ve got a 1911 that can.

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  80. “which is what the woodworking shop at that prison should be doing as we speak”

    AD – I agree. Let the professionals do their jobs. The prisoner should not be adding to his stress by worrying about whether they can. Worry not.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  81. Maybe the prisoner should write a children’s book – Why I’m Too Fat For The State To Kill. Mike Farrell could market it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  82. I agree with Kevin that this ‘painless death’ execution concept is pretty silly. It is not part of the constitution. The ratifiers would not recognize that. Whatever deterrent value there is is reduced, too.

    We should want a death that is not barbaric, but is feasible.

    A hanging would not be barbaric.

    I have no problem with Kevin’s thought about an additional burden for death penalties, either.

    Dustin (73fead)

  83. Due process does not end at sentencing. It includes the protocols for execution, which must be according to law. The state cannot just make it up as it goes along. It must comply with duly enacted laws governing the method of execution.

    This has been a morbid, but fun thread.

    And, BTW, daleyrocks. Bite me.

    nk (875f57)

  84. Due process does not end at sentencing. It includes the protocols for execution, which must be according to law. The state cannot just make it up as it goes along. It must comply with duly enacted laws governing the method of execution.

    This has been a morbid, but fun thread.

    And, BTW, daleyrocks. Bite me.

    nk (875f57)

  85. If he gained this weight in prison, they are feeding him way too much. And if he went there overweight and stayed that way, they are feeding him way too much.

    nk: what’s wrong with the smell of bacon?

    PatAZ (1f9b76)

  86. It interfered with my rib eye steak and potatoes vesuvio, last night. ;)

    There’s a great story from Max Brand (I want to say Ronicky Doone or something close) about a cowboy who decides to take up farming and all he has to live on in his sod shanty is a side of bacon and a sack of potatoes. He gets so sick of the smell of the bacon that he leaves his claim to go fight in a range war.

    nk (875f57)

  87. The problem with all those “protocols” is that individual, near-sighted members of SCOTUS have taken the prohibition against “cruel and unusual punishment” and expanded it way beyond what the Founders would have thought possible, or wise.
    When we seek-out the counsel of fools, we should not be surprised by the unanticipated-consequences of that counsel.

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  88. As has been mentioned above and many other places besides, it is the publicization of an execution which has the measurable deterrent effect, not the ephemeral concept of the death penalty.

    Criminals are deterred from violent, death penalty crimes by seeing people in the news getting killed for them. The deterrent effect lasts about three weeks. The vast majority of the criminal element doesn’t make linkages to distant possibilities.

    Heads on pikes are a deterrent. Skeletons in cages with a sign reading ‘Pirate’ is a deterrent. Someone saying, “I might punish you in twenty years,” is not a deterrent.

    luagha (5cbe06)

  89. 44. In American history, has it always taken this long?

    If not, what caused it to take so long?

    Comment by Michael Ejercito — 9/19/2012 @ 9:02 pm

    The crowd that opposes death penalties to the extent they’ll engage in endless litigation even when the convict doesn’t oppose his own death penalty.

    Then argue that it’s wrong for a state to seek the death penalty because the lengthy legal process prolongs the agony for relatives of the victim.

    In other words, saboteurs with law licenses.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  90. please tell me nk did not prepare a rib eye with a microwave.

    In a pinch, butter, salt, pepper, and a frying pan will do the job.

    Dustin (73fead)

  91. 90.please tell me nk did not prepare a rib eye with a microwave.

    In a pinch, butter, salt, pepper, and a frying pan will do the job.

    Comment by Dustin — 9/20/2012 @ 11:16 am

    Dustin, now you’ve done it! You’ve ticked me off.

    What do you mean, “in a pinch?!?!”

    Butter, salt, & pepper, are all you’ll ever need if you’re starting with a good steak. And frankly I’ve gotten along fine without the salt & pepper for a long time now. The key is to cook it at a low enough temperature that you don’t need to turn it to avoid burning.

    Substitute olive oil for the butter, and throw in a few lemon wedges, and I could serve up a bistecca people pay $100 for in a restaurant.

    Don’t be a barbarian, Dustin.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  92. As a supporter of Heinlein’s theory of Balancing, I offer to shoot to death this killer in the same way he shot his victim. I may have to borrow an Elephant gun (Double Rifle) from Burt Gummer.

    PCD (1d8b6d)

  93. Dustin, I agree with you about throwing the ribeye in the microwave, bye the way.

    The microwave, I must agree, does do a decent job on bacon. I was surprised the first time I tried it.

    But it’s not for everything.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  94. Yeah, I admit the microwave is the easiest way to make good bacon. I prefer the oven, but it heats up the whole kitchen.

    Dustin (73fead)

  95. “…their client is too overweight to be put to death.”

    Well, let’s at least TRY. And, if at first you don’t succeed, try, try again.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  96. Due process does not end at sentencing. It includes the protocols for execution, which must be according to law.

    There’s no reason those can’t be changed as the government wishes. There’s no ex-post-facto clause about them.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  97. Don’t be a barbarian, Dustin.

    Comment by Steve57 — 9/20/2012

    The pan was the “pinch” part.

    All I ever put on is usually salt and pepper, but I like to use charcoal. It’s worth it if you have the hour to spare getting it ready. If the steaks are quality, I think the extra effort is justified. Once in a while I will use soy sauce too.

    If you’re just trying to get some sustenance, a pan will do. I can’t use olive oil because I use too high a temperature and cook the steaks for a short period.

    Dustin (73fead)

  98. “Due process does not end at sentencing. It includes the protocols for execution, which must be according to law.”

    nk – Did anyone here claim otherwise Mr. Obvious?

    Define justice.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  99. You know what’s inhumane? Putting someone on death row and leaving them there for years, waking up every morning thinking that it might be their last day. That’s how they do it in many Asian countries, and if there were just one possible punishment that was cruel and unusual that would be the one. It’s horrible, and in my opinion unconstitutional in the USA. Once you’ve definitely decided to execute someone, get it over with that same day.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  100. 92.As a supporter of Heinlein’s theory of Balancing, I offer to shoot to death this killer in the same way he shot his victim. I may have to borrow an Elephant gun (Double Rifle) from Burt Gummer.

    Comment by PCD — 9/20/2012 @ 11:33 am

    Not all elephant guns are doubles. A .416 Rigby will do all you’ll ever need to do on elephant, and it as only chambered in bolt guns.

    I’d say it’s more than you need on any death row inmate weighing less than a ton. As a matter of fact, a .338 WinMag ought to do just as well. On this guy, considering he’s less than 500lbs I’d say a 7.62 NATO (.308 Win) would be perfectly adequate.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  101. “In a pinch, butter, salt, pepper, and a frying pan will do the job.”

    Dustin – Throw ‘em in the oven at 425 with the same seasoning.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  102. I’ll give that a shot, Daley. Never tried that before.

    Dustin (73fead)

  103. 100, Steve, I could use my Belgian Browning A5 with rifled slugs. Otherwise I have an M1911-A1 that I have 200gr JHP hand loaded by me or Hornady’s Zombie Max Ammunition. Maybe go with the Zombie Max. One to dispatch him, a second to terminate him in his unlife. Where’s Max Brooks?

    PCD (1d8b6d)

  104. In my opinion, we should fly these guys to hospitals and harvest their organs when the need arises.

    Dustin (73fead)

  105. In my opinion, we should fly these guys to hospitals and harvest their organs when the need arises.

    Brrr, no. That’s what the Chinese do, and it’s inhumane.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  106. No, no, no. It’s just that the microwave stinks up the chicken.

    I oven brown the potatoes separately. They take thirty minutes, for crying out loud. I do not fry the steak. I broil it for a minute or two on each side to rare. Then roast it covered with the already cooked potatoes to medium rare for two minutes.

    nk (875f57)

  107. Garlic, of whatever kind (powdered, minced, fresh), oregano, salt, pepper. A sheen of olive oil in the pan, if you like it. Some people like sage.

    nk (875f57)

  108. nk, daley, and dustin,

    use grill with charcoal and wood fire. Marinate the steak in Jack Daniels and be done with it.

    PCD (1d8b6d)

  109. Classical vesuvio is frying the steak in an iron skillet for a minute or so, with a sheen of olive oil, on both sides, and then sticking the skillet in the oven for the roast. But I do not have a restaurant kitchen.

    nk (875f57)

  110. “I’ll give that a shot, Daley. Never tried that before.”

    Dustin – Don’t have current access to a grill so I bake good steaks all the time. They turn out just fine. Easier than standing over a frying pan and you don’t have to turn them if you don’t want to.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  111. No, no, no. It’s just that the microwave stinks up the chicken.

    Thank goodness.

    I broil it for a minute or two on each side to rare. Then roast it covered with the already cooked potatoes to medium rare for two minutes.

    I am starving.

    Marinate the steak in Jack Daniels and be done with it.

    I save all my Whiskey for my coffee. Is this really good?

    Dustin (73fead)

  112. Marinate the steak in Jack Daniels and be done with it.

    Comment by PCD — 9/20/2012 @ 12:09 pm

    I do something like that with “poor” beef.

    http://krites.blogspot.com/2007/03/slow-cooked-beef.html

    nk (875f57)

  113. PCD – Used to grill year round in Chicago, but on gas grill. Light it. Let snow melt and warm up. Throw meat on and go back inside. Go back outside to turn meat. Go back outside to retrieve. Easy Peasy.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  114. Drink up to four ounces of the whiskey as you are waiting for it to cook (optional)

    heh

    Dustin (73fead)

  115. 107. Garlic, of whatever kind (powdered, minced, fresh), oregano, salt, pepper. A sheen of olive oil in the pan, if you like it. Some people like sage.

    Comment by nk — 9/20/2012 @ 12:03 pm

    Gotta draw the line on garlic, dude. And that’s a rare thing for me to do, considering I descend from a long line of greasy mediterranean olive pickers and garlic eaters.

    I find garlic overpowers the flavor of the beef. Sage, yes. Rosemary, yes. Garlic, no.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  116. 114.

    Drink up to four ounces of the whiskey as you are waiting for it to cook (optional)

    heh

    Comment by Dustin — 9/20/2012 @ 12:18 pm

    Pro tip: if you’re in Scotland and they’re serving haggis, drink the whole effin’ bottle before they parade it.

    And no, it’s not optional.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  117. Only my mother knew how to cook intestines. And it was from unweaned lambs — only milk had passed through them.

    But poor people sometimes had no choice. The Laird gets the steaks, haunches, and chops. The poor people are left with the offal. Delicacy made out of necessity.

    nk (875f57)

  118. I don’t even know what haggis is.

    Haggis is a savoury pudding containing sheep’s pluck (heart, liver and lungs); minced with onion, oatmeal, suet, spices, and salt, mixed with stock, and traditionally encased in the animal’s stomach and simmered for approximately three hours. Most modern commercial haggis is prepared in a sausage casing rather than an actual stomach.

    I’d eat that.

    Dustin (73fead)

  119. If there’s no garlic, it’s not vesuvio, Steve. Doesn’t mean it’s not a very good steak and potatoes, otherwise.

    I learned cooking from my mother. She was a minimalist.

    “Mama, do you add garlic?” “Do you like it and do you have it?”

    “Mama, cumin”? “Do you like it and do you have it?”

    nk (875f57)

  120. 103. 100, Steve, I could use my Belgian Browning A5 with rifled slugs. Otherwise I have an M1911-A1 that I have 200gr JHP hand loaded by me or Hornady’s Zombie Max Ammunition. Maybe go with the Zombie Max. One to dispatch him, a second to terminate him in his unlife. Where’s Max Brooks?

    Comment by PCD — 9/20/2012 @ 11:51 am

    You have a taste for quality ordnance, I see.

    My intent wasn’t to turn this into an arms race; maybe I picked up on the wrong vibe when it appeared to me you equated elephant guns with doubles.

    I want to emphasize that’s how it appeared to me. Of course, that may not have been what you were doing at all.

    But, hell, as long as it is an arms race let’s make it accessible to all. Even those who live in states or cities where the 1911 is hard to come by.

    I recommend an early fall spear season for death row inmates. Courtesy of a few prescient suppliers I just assembled a spear that I believe is adequate to the task. A 13 inch long Hewing spear head on one end, a spiked Greek hoplite butt cap on the other, a Home Depot 60 inch long replacement handle for a garden tool in between.

    I realize this sort of thing isn’t a possibility in some circumstances. If your circumstances include geeks who will point at your spear, laugh, and then go on about how that Greek hoplite butt cap is historically incorrect for a spear tipped with a Celtic leaf blade.

    Screw them.

    If I don’t get a chance to test my spear on death row inmates (in olden Japan if a blade was tested on the condemned, the number of bodies it cut through would be inscribed in gold on the tang) I’ll find a place where it’s legal to use it on boar.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  121. It’s a myth, Steve.

    nk (875f57)

  122. 120.

    If there’s no garlic, it’s not vesuvio, Steve. Doesn’t mean it’s not a very good steak and potatoes, otherwise.

    I learned cooking from my mother. She was a minimalist.

    “Mama, do you add garlic?” “Do you like it and do you have it?”

    “Mama, cumin”? “Do you like it and do you have it?”

    Comment by nk — 9/20/2012 @ 12:45 pm

    Never heard of steak vesuvio. Which is odd, because the long line of greasy olive pickers and garlic eaters that I descend from left their country in the shadow of that volcano to come here.

    Maybe, as you mentioned in an earlier comment, it’s that the peasantry didn’t often get a steak that they went so lightly on the seasoning.

    I still think it is something close to a sin to do anything to a steak that smothers the flavor.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  123. 122. It’s a myth, Steve.

    Comment by nk — 9/20/2012 @ 1:00 pm

    What exactly is the myth?

    That 1911s are hard to come by in Chicago, my views on steaks, or that some people will laugh at your spear if the blade belongs to one era and the butt cap to an entirely different era?

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  124. That 1911s are hard to come by in Chicago

    Legally, I meant. I don’t know how much of the black market is captured by 1911s.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  125. Nothing a few well-placed rifle bullets wouldn’t solve.

    Random (edf1d2)

  126. Don’t ask Max Brooks, his advice on zombie killing weapons is crap, he denigrates the AR15.

    SPQR (6f30cb)

  127. Absent a 1911, any pistol in .22lr will always do – it just goes in and rattles around a few times.
    Repeat if necessary.

    AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92)

  128. 122. It’s a myth, Steve.

    Comment by nk — 9/20/2012 @ 1:00 pm

    What exactly is the myth?

    Tameshigiri. Testing a sword by cutting through three bodies at once. It cannot be done.

    And nobody should laugh at a spear with a Celtic point and a Greek buttcap. Worked metal, in those days, was rare and expensive and it was not discarded, it was incorporated. Especially among the Germans who were very metal poor. It’s easy to imagine that some German, after a fight against the Legions, picked up a broken point from a dead French auxiliary and a buttcap from some dead Greek mercenary and joined them with a piece of ash.

    nk (875f57)

  129. “Due process does not end at sentencing. It includes the protocols for execution, which must be according to law.”

    nk – Did anyone here claim otherwise Mr. Obvious?

    Define justice.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 9/20/2012 @ 11:40 am

    “Justice” was your word, a-hole. Not mine. I asked you to define it for us. But just go f*** yourself, better.

    nk (875f57)

  130. Well, if your squimishness demands death by injection, try a MASSIVE overdose of insulin on him.

    121, used to have a shop in E. Dubuque, IL, that would sell 1911s, but it moved across the Mississippi to Dubuque.

    Used to be 2 gun shops in WI, one Milwaukee area and one in Green Bay you could get 1911s or Communist bloc surplus weapons.

    Pawn shop in Shawano has interesting weapons. My niece got a Springfield M1A for under $1400 NEW!!! That is an M14 to the hoplophobe crowd.

    Oh, for fatty, I have a Marlin .30-30 with Barnes X hand loads. Copper slugs for the uninformed. No Lead poisoning.

    PCD (1d8b6d)

  131. One more idea to dispatch fatty. I have a Ruger Mk II. The CIA used these for undercover eliminations. Double tap behind the ear and it is over, and cheap too.

    PCD (1d8b6d)

  132. “I asked you to define it for us.”

    nk – I did.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  133. nk – You said “There is no “justice”. Not even as an ideal.”

    So now it’s your turn at definitions.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  134. 130.

    122. It’s a myth, Steve.

    Comment by nk — 9/20/2012 @ 1:00 pm

    What exactly is the myth?

    Tameshigiri. Testing a sword by cutting through three bodies at once. It cannot be done.

    I should have been more precise in my wording. The Samurai of the upper ranks, not just the Daimyo or lord but also those holding high office such as the chamberlain or the chief censor, did in fact pay to have their swords tested on the condemned. Usually after they had been executed, but there is evidence that if they were willing to pay enough on live prisoners.

    But while a sword might be tested on more than one prisoner, allowing the sword tester to experiment with a variety of cuts (there were 16 named cutting strokes in Japanese swordsmanship) you are correct that there is no evidence that they attempted to cut more than one body with the sword at a time.

    One benefit, I suppose, that results from Japan remaining a feudal society until the mid-1800s is that relatively speaking the texts of the chroniclers of Japanese feudalism haven’t been lost to time.

    One story that comes down to us is of a thief that was sentenced to beheading. As he’s taken to the execution site he notices a sword tester and his witnesses among the police. He asks if the man intends to test that sword on him. The sword tester responds in the affirmative, stating he’s going to try for a diagonal cut from the shoulder down (a cutting stroke known as kesa). “Pity I wasn’t told earlier,” responds the thief, “I would have swallowed a couple of large stones and thus ruined your precious blade.”

    You didn’t last long as a criminal in the Tokugawa’s Japan without a certain contempt for death. Which was the only punishment for anything beyond minor infractions.

    The lower ranking samurai, essentially men-at-arms, didn’t have the kind of pull it took to test their swords on condemned prisoners. So they pretended to take offense at commoners, who if they failed to pay proper respect to their samurai overlords could be killed (in fact it was a samurai’s duty to kill them). So they’d claim the commoner wasn’t respectful enough just to try out their swords in what was variously known as a “practice murder” or a “cross road cutting.”

    If you (or anyone who reads this) ever has a chance to visit Japan and is interested in its history I recommend a day trip to Kamakura (one of the ancient seats of the Shogun) or if you have more time to Edo Jidai Mura. In English, the Edo period village. Sort of the Japanese version of colonial Williamsburg. It’s an unforgettable experience. Mostly because families are wandering around like it’s Disneyland, eating soft ice cream with junior on dad’s shoulders, but instead of an amusement park they’re looking at wax figures of people going through the most agonizing tortures and various forms of brutal executions. So junior and sis are bawling their eyes out, so traumatized are they by what they’re seeing. And dad and mom are just strolling around like they’re in a different world.

    It was fascinating in a bizarre sort of way. I believe it’s in Nikko national park, but it might have been Hakone. Just ask, someone will know where it is.

    And nobody should laugh at a spear with a Celtic point and a Greek buttcap. Worked metal, in those days, was rare and expensive and it was not discarded, it was incorporated. Especially among the Germans who were very metal poor. It’s easy to imagine that some German, after a fight against the Legions, picked up a broken point from a dead French auxiliary and a buttcap from some dead Greek mercenary and joined them with a piece of ash.

    Comment by nk — 9/20/2012 @ 5:12 pm

    Again, you are of course correct. Steel was a rare commodity in the ancient world, and only a fool would make something like a whole sword out of one. Typically an edged weapon, whether sword or axe or spear, would be forged out of iron with steel only forge-welded where it was needed to hold the edge.

    Which explains why your typical German during the timeframe of the Roman empire was normally armed with just the framea spear, and the axe remained in the viking inventory long after it became obsolete in the rest of Europe. Those weapons simply didn’t require much steel in their construction.

    I appreciate what you wrote about how rare and expensive metal was. Even into the late 1800s in the US there was no such thing as a useless piece of metal. John Browning’s dad was a gunsmith in his own right. And John Browning began to hone his skills at the age of six in his father’s workshop, when he was tasked with sanding the rust off of some piece of metal that had been placed in the shop junk pile until they figured out a use for it.

    If that’s how it was in Utah in the 1870s I can only imagine what it was like during the dark ages/medieval Europe.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  135. I’m a little bit queer about edged weapons, Steve. Owned a lot, made a few. Western fencing in college, iado (Japanese fencing) later.

    nk (875f57)

  136. 137. This is a heartrending story and maybe not the best time for preaching pacifism. I’ll shut up.

    Comment by nk — 9/21/2012 @ 2:20 pm

    That makes two of us.

    I won’t go through the entire litany of how I acquired an interest in edged weapons; suffice it to say that the confluence of influences that were sparked by my graduation from AOCS (my parents bought me a sword as a present even though it’s not required until you make O-4), my academic interest in the Pacific War, and the fact that I was eventually stationed in a country (Japan) that maintained the cult of the sword until the 1940s kinda sorta drove me to develop an interest in learning about swords.

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  137. I’m not crazy. I quoted (I thought) a comment from nk in #137. I have no clue how the wrong quote ended up in my comment. I thought I checked things out before I clicked “submit comment.”

    Steve57 (c8ac21)

  138. Got it.

    Texas Machinist and I exchanged photos of our iron maidens sometime back. http://www.krites.blogspot.com/2010/07/advantage-knife-has-over-gun.html

    DirtCrasher and GuardDuck joined in if you care to scroll for kukris.

    I had to delete a couple of my posts because I moved to Chicago. ;)

    nk (875f57)


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