EVERYBODY PANIC!!!! SEKRIT ROMNEY VIDEO MEANS CAMPAIGN IS OVER!!!!!!!!11!!!!1!!
Once there was a candidate who was at a political fundraiser and referred to the diehards on the other side in a derogatory fashion. Unfortunately for him, the comments were secretly recorded. His opposition made much of the embarrassing video, in which the candidate said things he evidently would not say before a general interest crowd.
Yes, things were looking bad for that candidate, all right.
Then he went on to crush John McCain in the general election.
A lot has happened in the years since Barack Obama mocked the “bitter clingers” — Republican bumpkins who “get bitter and cling to their guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them as a way to explain their frustrations.”
But Obama came out of it doing OK.
Well, today everyone is all a Twitter (thank you! thank you very much) about a new secret video in which Mitt Romney says:
There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax.
The man has a valid point. He expressed it in a poor fashion. (Keep in mind that Mother Jones‘s David Corn has not yet released the full video — which, given Corn’s hyperpartisan and dishonest history, should be seen as suspicious and should be mentioned in any account of this video.)
But the media jackals are going to run with a narrative that the Romney campaign has run off the rails. That victory is impossble. He has no chance. The POLITICO infighting story and the Mother Jones revelations are a fatal blow! The damage is beyond repair!!!!!!!eleventy!!1!
Whatever.
Unemployment is still higher than it was when Obama took office. The debt is $5 trillion higher. Job reports are pathetic.
Americans are not better off than they were four years ago.
Those who see themselves as sucking on the government teat — a much smaller group, by the way, than the group that actually is sucking on the government teat — will be offended and won’t vote for Romney. Guess what? They weren’t going to anyway.
Independents may be put off by Romney’s seemingly callous attitude towards the 47 percent of people who don’t pay income tax. He’s going to have to work to come back from this.
But it’s hardly the end of the world.
Don’t be a sucker for the Big Media spin.
UPDATE: Here is the transcript of Romney’s press conference. Defensive and lacking in forcefulness. This may hurt him worse than the comments. He could have come out swinging, saying something like this:
I wrote off those who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them. Does Barack Obama take ownership of those voters? Good, because that is his base. I don’t want the votes of victims. I think people in the middle are hardworking and this president’s massive overspending has put them and their children in the hole. I think hardworking Americans are looking for a change.
And maybe he could say that 47% was a gross overestimate. Because it was.
It’s bound to be awkward, but for God’s sake, man, stick by the point you were trying to make.
Ding.
I mean, ALL IS LOST!!!!!1!!!!11!!1!!!
Patterico (83033d) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:22 pmMost real “independents” are not fans of sucking off the government teat or any other appendage.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:25 pmStrange times we live in when the truth is perceived as damaging to the candidate. The electorate is fairly stupid but they won’t be upset with this. I think the left’s desperation is showing if this is all they’ve got.
Gazzer (e53189) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:31 pmUnf*ck this nation! Vote for teh Mormon, not the pathological liar of a Moron.
ColonelHaiku (24d787) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:36 pmThe video in 2008 didn’t sink Obama because the media were in the tank for him, as they will be this time around, and because a lot of the electorate was prepared to take out its hatred of Bush on the entire Republican Party. Those are the reasons why Obama won.
Romney has to have known throughout his campaign that he’d be up against not only Obama, but also the media. He’s always known that he has to be careful. And he STILL keeps saying things that are practically designed to forfeit votes. How the hell did this idiot win all those primaries?
We’re screwed. America in 2016 is going to make pre-Thatcher Britain look like a conservative paradise.
Alan (098693) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:38 pmBreitbart would be proud. I guess you can say Corn is “Pulling a Breitbart”. But I bet that will fly right over your heads.
Ian (5dc493) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:44 pmAnother difference is that Romney seems to have insulted a larger fraction of the country. More people will be offended by Romney than were offended by Obama.
We didn’t need this, and we can’t afford this.
Alan (098693) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:46 pmThe calculation to release the full video will include making sure the greatest amount of damage that could be done to Romney by the snippet will have been done. And not a minute before.
It may have been an inartfully worded statement, but the fact of the matter is Romney made a solid point. Perhaps he will be more of a pragmatist than an ideologue. I’m not seeing how that is a bad thing.
Dana (292dcf) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:47 pmChris Stevens is definitly not better off today than he was four years ago.
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (2bb434) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:49 pmOf course, it’s all Bush’s fault.
Ian is a douchenozzle. And a hypocrite.
JD (c926af) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:49 pm@JohnOSullivanNR
“How Romney should respond to the Mother Jones audio: Run it as a commercial: http://bit.ly/PBwGs6 “
ColonelHaiku (24d787) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:49 pmComment by ColonelHaiku — 9/17/2012 @ 6:36 pm
Don’t forget who composed that pithy statement.
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (2bb434) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:50 pmIan, go watch the mailbox for your welfare check and leave the adults alone to talk.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:51 pmJim Treacher @jtLOL
ColonelHaiku (24d787) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:52 pm”
If you’re offended that Romney accused you of freeloading, and you’re worried he’ll take away your free birth control, #YouMightBeALiberal. “
Another difference is that Romney seems to have insulted a larger fraction of the country. More people will be offended by Romney than were offended by Obama.
I disagree. I think a lot of people will be glad to hear someone just say the blunt truth. After all the ridiculous rhetoric, lies, and endless self-aggrandizing of our president, this is a relief. On two levels: Romney gets it – almost half of our country is dependent and reliant on the government sustaining them; and he understands the lifestyle that this is – these people for the most part, do not want to see this change. So why should he waste time trying to get their vote? It’s a practical move.
Dana (292dcf) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:52 pm________________________________________
The man has a valid point. He expressed it in a poor fashion.
What was so poor about his comments? If you already feel that “valid” has to be qualified with “in a poor fashion,” you’re either falling for the current etiquette of political correctness gone berserk, or a sense that “oh, the underdog in America (regardless whether such a person really is an underdog or merely a mooch) deserves our tears and compassion!”
That reaction or sentiment — which lurks in the dark recesses of just about every human out there (right, center or, most definitely, left) — regrettably runs roughshod over some of the worse communities in America, the worse societies throughout the world.
Mark (df4ead) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:54 pmFine, it’s a practical move… but it was politically suicidal to say it.
It’s like saying he won’t waste time trying to win black or Hispanic people’s votes. It’s understandable–they won’t vote for a Republican, come what may. (Even Brian Sandoval, himself Hispanic, couldn’t win anywhere near half the Hispanic vote, IIRC.) But you just don’t say that. It inflicts enormous damage on the candidate to say such a thing. It’s stupid for a politican to say certain things, even if those things are true.
Alan (098693) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:57 pmThe problem is that most people won’t listen to what he said or read the article to make their own assessment. But they will seethe ubiquitous headline in every magazine, newspaper, blogpost and TV crawl that says he stepped in it again.
That tactic of demonizing his comments about the US Embassy in Cairo worked very well for Axelrod & Co., so of course they will use it again and again until the election. Of course most people probably cannot tell you what he actually said last week, but they can tell you he made a terrible gaffe which he must regret–because day after day the media told them so.
Business Insider published this today:
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 6:57 pmNew Leaked Video from Fundraiser Looks Horrible For Mitt Romney.
(I’m sure there is no media coordination, though.)
The Blunt Truth?
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (2bb434) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:00 pmNot a hallmark of Stuart Stevens’ work so far.
Kevin Eder @keder
“I’m so old I remember when Joe Biden said paying taxes is ‘patriotic.’ Why do 47 percent of Americans hate America?”
ColonelHaiku (24d787) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:06 pmDavid Burge @iowahawkblog
“Romney: 47% of us are government leeches. Obama 100% of us are government leeches. #youdidntbuildthat “
ColonelHaiku (24d787) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:08 pmAnd what makes them “Shocked, shocked!” about that statement?
Romney told the truth! The truth is something that needs to be said. Suze Orman once said, “Truth creates wealth; lies destroy it.” Romney knows exactly what that means.
Too many people in this country depend on the government for their living. They will never, ever want that gravy train to go away. But keep in mind, it all depends on other people’s money.
What can’t go on forever, won’t.
theduchessofkitty (109031) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:10 pm___________________________________________
It inflicts enormous damage on the candidate to say such a thing.
From a purely tactical standpoint, I don’t know if it will or won’t. Some on the right think Romney is a big squish — a variation of George “read-my-lips” Bush Sr and George “compassionate-conservative” Bush Jr — so they’re not exactly devotees of him as much as they’re committed to voting against Obama. By contrast, liberals know that Obama has the heart and soul of an ultra-liberal, so they generally can’t find any fault with his ideology.
Regardless, I do think Romney should run home the point that bureaucracies like the IRS are seeing their budget and payroll increased mightily under liberals like Obama. Romney can also make quips along the lines of “we should all quit our day job and go work for the government.”
Mark (df4ead) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:11 pmJim Treacher @jtLOL
“Our diplomats are being murdered, free speech is being suppressed, & @ChuckTodd is offended that Romney dares to oppose Obama for president.”
ColonelHaiku (24d787) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:11 pmIn fact, when I first saw the screen cap earlier today I thought. “Good for Mitt he’s finally getting it and growing a pair…”
Gazzer (e53189) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:13 pmThey will try to make a fuss about this but Mitt needs to tackle them head on. Embrace it, own it and ram it down their throats. It is, after all, the truth.
Gazzer (e53189) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:15 pmRED ALERT! ALL HAND TO BATTLESTATIONS.
Oh wait. The leftwingwacko dominated media is having babies over this? Yawn.
BeeKay (045e37) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:25 pmThis is a president who has written off white working class voters, gun owners, social conservatives, veterans & serving military &tc.
But hopefully, Mitt is engaging in hyperbole since if everyone who doesn’t pay income tax truly opposes him, he has to win all the rest and that’s just not possible.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:27 pmI keep reading this post trying to figure out what the bad part of Romney’s comment is.
This hurts him? Really? It makes me want to donate money to his campaign.
If this hurts feelings, GOOD! Those 47 percenters shouldn’t like a good stare in the mirror as this nation is run off a cliff. It feels bad because of the shame.
I think it’s a miscalculation for the left to try to make a big deal out of how ashamed they are.
Dustin (73fead) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:28 pmGAFFE CHECK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:31 pmBarack Obama could attend a tribute to a PLO terrorist and listen calmly to anti-Semitic rant after anti-Semitic rant and I bet the press would make sure it never saw the light of day.
Oh, you don’t say.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:33 pmDid Romney just say that the unemployed are going to vote for Obama?
ACAB (5d3910) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:34 pmIf that guy is really soo effin stu-pid to even be thinking of giving back that evil terrorist blind sheik over a freakin you-tube video or for any reason
He’s going to lose no matter what Romney says
EPWJ (d84fb0) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:39 pmACAB/spointer/imdw sure is wound up tonight.
JD (318f81) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:41 pmJeez, I’m going to have to listen to the media go ballistic for the next few days because Romney told the truth and someone eavesdropped.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:46 pm__________________________________________
He’s going to have to work to come back from this.
The philosophical squish that can be detected in a lot of people, or that actually would be deemed as restrained or boring in the eyes of a large segment of the populace of nations like France or Argentina, or Venezuela or Greece, or, of course, urban areas like Detroit and Washington DC — meaning in the eyes of those people who perceive leftism as a wonderful religion — is merely a preview of how the societies of such people can easily become quite corroded and dysfunctional.
I said Romney should make a sarcastic point about how everyone should quit their day job and go work for the government. Now that I think of it, I’m not sure if that comment in the eyes of many people would be necessarily seen as a disapproving or alarming one. In France, I recall reading a few years ago that surveys showed a large percentage of younger people, when asked what their career goals are in life, said finding a job in and working for government.
^ If it’s good enough for Greece, it’s good enough for…
Mark (df4ead) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:48 pmS.M @redsteeze
“Left wants you to believe Obama cares about 47% of America. Obama doesn’t even take care of a guy that is 50% his brother.”
Colonel Haiku (24d787) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:48 pmI’d say Romney pretty well nailed it.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:52 pmBearing in mind that elections are decided by the most ignorant voters–independents–I think we should be very scared of the effects of Romney’s remarks, even though his main point was valid. Of course it was valid. But do you expect independents to understand that? I don’t.
Alan (098693) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:56 pmAs i think most people who have spent time on this issue know, poorer people, young wage earners, and most of that portion of the middle class who earn too little to pay much or any federal income tax, actually pay a good deal of taxes.–Almost all taxes other than the fed income tax are not pro-rated by income (that is are not ‘progressive’). Therefore the percentage of income paid in sales taxes, local taxes, and even property taxes is often higher as you go down the income ladder,[with of course property taxes falling out at the very bottom rungs. ]
The earned income tax credit, child exemptions, and other steps that helped reduce the federal income tax burden at the lower levels were almost always supported by, and even often originated with or were sponsored by conservatives–it was often seen as a way to ‘flatten’ the tax rates, when coupled with relief to the highest brackets.
i think almost any of the people too poor to pay federal income tax (but still paying all those other taxes) would be happy to have income high enough to ‘qualify’ for heavier federal levies. i know i was conscious of having reached an important plateau in my own maturation when i became a tax payer for real–i’m not saying i relished paying income tax, but i did not yearn for the days when my income had been too low.
i know it is tempting to see Romney’s comments as defending the ‘makers’ versus the ‘takers’ but there are millions and millions of working poor–or unemployed poor who are willing to work–who consider themselves makers even if no one ever paid them enough to escape the 47%.
i’m afraid those who are defending Mr. Romney’s statements on this one are in danger of losing their entire audience except those who came to the room already agreeing with them.
brendanyc (1de907) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:57 pmMaybe that will be a good thing, but if you are a Romney supporter and you are celebrating it, you are in danger of looking a bit foolish. At best.
Raise your hand if you think fully 47 percent of the U.S. population “believe that they are victims.”
That strikes me as quite a claim.
And does he pick that number because that’s the percentage that doesn’t pay income tax (but does pay other sorts of taxes, by the way)?
Look. There is a valid point in there. But yeah, it was phrased poorly, in my view. There damn sure are people who are losers sucking off the government teat. But it ain’t any 47% of the country, in my opinion.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:57 pmI think all statements should be geared towards the most ignorant voters.
JD (318f81) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:59 pmI agree with this — to the extent that people are fullthroatedly defending everything he said and the manner in which he said it.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/17/2012 @ 7:59 pm47% includes food stamps, etc… no?
JD (318f81) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:01 pmI think all statements should be geared towards the most ignorant voters.
That’s not what I’m saying. I’m just saying that political statements shouldn’t be geared toward needlessly offending many millions of people with poor phrasing.
Alan (098693) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:03 pm“Crazy, Lying, Stupid Brian Williams”
Brian said Barrack was God!
“You ‘little people’ should be awed!
“You’re Savior’s triumphs you should laud!”
Crazy Brian Williams!
Brian said “BO won the war!”
“And killed the villain at his door,
“The Seals were ‘BACKUP’, nothing more!”
Lying Brian Williams!
Brian said, “I’ve secret ‘news’,
So hot that it will blow your fuse!
And prove Mitt Romney’s crazy views.
Stupid Brian Williams.
[The fact is: Romney spoke the truth,
“Entitlements are through the roof”
The GAO* HAS ALL THE PROOF,
Fraudulent Brian Williams]
Brian needs a lengthy rest,
From the communists he loves best,
In this land, HE’S A LOUSY GUEST!
GOOD BYE MITCHELL!
Copy Freely
* GAO = General Accounting Office.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/obamas-abject-failure-on-entitlement-reform/2012/04/23/gIQAMzqkcT_blog.html
“Key Quote” = “Taken together, the trustees’ and GAO reports remind us of one of Obama’s most significant domestic failings: his lack of will to address our entitlement programs that are central to a real reduction in our national debt.”
POINT: Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan have “hit the overspending nail on the head”—we reduce wisely; improve productivity vigorously; or we fail MISERABLY. So much for “Brian Williams’ FRAUDULENT CLAIM THAT GOV. ROMNEY HAS NOT BEEN FORTHRIGHT—he and his V.P. pick have been SOUNDING THE FISCAL ALARM FOR YEARS! We either hear it; or the Republic falls and fails. About 47% of Americans refuse to even admit this is a problem meriting discussion and resolution. What happens when those checks stop coming? I hope that our Socialist Media Whore has one h#ll of a saving account to make up the shortfall!
BABY GLOCK (a613f3) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:06 pmI also think that spending one’s time worrying about the proper phrasing to offend nobody as opposed to stating your message clearly is a fools errand. Especially with the MFM deep throating your opponent. When calling Florida the breadbasket and a reference to peanut butter are racist, and the MFM wants to talk about the horrific timing of an accurate statement in responsemto an EPIC fail of Bamster’s foreign policy. Forgive me if I have a hard time getting worked up over this horrific gaffe which will ensure that Teh Won gets re-elected.
JD (318f81) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:08 pm“There damn sure are people who are losers sucking off the government teat. But it ain’t any 47% of the country, in my opinion.”
Are you including all the people connected with General Motors?
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:08 pmAnd Gallup confirms that a lot of people may very well agree with what Mitt Romney said.
“It is thus no surprise to find large partisan differences in Americans’ views on the appropriate role of government. Two-thirds of Democrats think government should do more, while an even larger percentage of Republicans say government is doing too much that should be left to individuals and businesses. More than six in 10 independents agree that the government is doing too much.”
theduchessofkitty (109031) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:08 pmbrendanyc:
That’s all well and good, but how exactly has the lot of the poor improved in the past three and a half years? Bright, shiny words can make people feel better. I know poor people who work and work hard. You make the usual presumption the these poor are also too stupid to understand their circumstances and will choose to continue their plight.
Of course, a whole lot of them will, but that doesn’t make stating the truth wrong. People today need a dose of the truth, rather than unicorns and rainbows.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:09 pmI also think that spending one’s time worrying about the proper phrasing to offend nobody…
Do you ever not use straw men to represent arguments you don’t agree with?
Alan (098693) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:11 pmYou understood my point. Trying to not offend is a fools errand. Better?
JD (318f81) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:13 pm“These are people who pay no income tax.”–Romney
One minor correction though. These are people who THINK they pay no income tax.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:14 pmYou wingnuts really do inhabit an alternate universe.
CAPT Mike (faa4a6) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:19 pmThanks for sharing your perspective on this. You’re probably right. It’s a better idea to express this point without turning off those folks who don’t pay income tax but still are working hard and do not support reckless spending.
Dustin (73fead) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:21 pmRomney says Obama Backers Dependent, Tax Dodgers
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:21 pmChicago Tribune 9/17/12 6:26 PM
How clever, Mike.
Frum, Brooks, and Parker will be found on their fainting couches tomorrow, as will the bevy of unnamed insiders.
JD (318f81) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:21 pmElissa – are you surprised?
JD (318f81) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:22 pmfood stamp america can blow me except not really cause they’re dirty
happyfeet (5e4920) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:23 pmFrom Obama’s campaign manager,
It’s shocking that a candidate for President of the United States would go behind closed doors and declare to a group of wealthy donors that half the American people view themselves as ‘victims,’ entitled to handouts, and are unwilling to take ‘personal responsibility’ for their lives. It’s hard to serve as president for all Americans when you’ve disdainfully written off half the nation.
Dana (292dcf) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:24 pmCAPT Mike, “bitter clingers” not wingnuts.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:25 pm==Mitt Romney stands by secret video about voters. In brief remarks to reporters, Romney said his argument was not “elegantly stated.”==
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:25 pmUSA Today
_________________________________________
And does he pick that number because that’s the percentage that doesn’t pay income tax
When witnessing the way that too many people in general tend to feel and think — here in the US and elsewhere — I’d say that figure regrettably is not far off the target. But perhaps not so much that a full 47% of people see themselves as victims, as much as at least that number of the public sheds tears for anyone who, in their mind (meaning based on the way they categorize who is a victim or not), is a victim.
The mentality behind that has gotten so ludicrous in today’s society that — and I’ll point this out again — people in the military who represented the peer group of Nidal Hasan (ie, the killer at Fort Hood) gave him wide latitude because they didn’t want to be a meanie by accusing Hasan of being a meanie. IOW, he had to be treated like the crazy uncle in the attic, treated with kid gloves because he was a sad, pitiful victim, a victim of circumstances beyond his control.
Mark (df4ead) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:25 pm==Romney in video: Obama voters ‘dependent,’ ‘victims’
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:27 pmMitt Romney also said 47 percent of voters “will vote for [President Obama] no matter what,” according to a video recorded secretly at a Romney fund-raiser.== (Boston Globe)
How is what he said wrong, vis a vis the client-state leftist statists? They think Govt shuld provide, and dictate health insurance and healthcare choices. They engage in constant class warfare with noxious claims to fair share of other people’s money. They use taxpayer dollars as transfer payments to unions and green energy companies, etc … But it is somehow wrong to point that out?
JD (318f81) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:28 pm==Secretly recorded videos of Mitt Romney at a fundraiser show him saying nearly half of Americans will vote for President Obama because they are dependent on government support== CNN
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:28 pmpiggies at the trough
Obama shore do lurv him some piggies at the trough
happyfeet (5e4920) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:29 pm“You wingnuts really do inhabit an alternate universe.’
Yeah, one that’s totally unfamiliar to lefties.
It’s called reality.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:29 pm______________________________________
Romney says Obama Backers Dependent, Tax Dodgers
Romney would be dumb if he doesn’t point this out:
Mark (df4ead) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:32 pmLook. There is a valid point in there. But yeah, it was phrased poorly, in my view. There damn sure are people who are losers sucking off the government teat. But it ain’t any 47% of the country, in my opinion.
Patterico, it’s hyperbole and it was never meant for public analysis. Obviously if Obama starts with 47% just for being a Democrat we have no hope at all — but that’s really not the case. Historically there’s a minimum for each party (both McGovern and Goldwater got 38%), and everyone else is convincible.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:33 pmCapt. Mike:
Here’s the universe I inhabit.
That link means that you, everyone you care about, your children, your grandchildren, every poor person in America, every oppressed class and and every privileged classmember is soon going to wake up to a whole new world of hurt.
You can sit around and cluck about how stupid us mouth-breathers are or you can come up with a solution.
It is real though, and all the insults you and your ilk toss about don’t make it better. You stinking putz.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:34 pmI’s like to see the freeloaders worry about life after Obama is gone.
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:35 pmAnybody want to guess Nightlines’ lead story?
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:36 pm–Romney: 47% of Americans are freeloaders — and I’d have a better shot at winning if I were Mexican– (New York Daily News)
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:39 pmThere seems to be a massive campaign to convince everyone that the election is a done deal and they ought to just go with the flow.
Why not? Obama has got the economy running on artificial stimulus, foreign policy is pretty much just press conferences and wishing, the law depends greatly on who you know, why not try to simulate a preference cascade?
THEY WILL DO ANYTHING AT ALL it takes to win, because if they lose everyone but Obama goes to jail.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:39 pm==Romney: Obama voters take public aid, pay no tax==
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:40 pm(LA. Dog Trainer)
Ag80 – the EPIC failure of Teh One’s unicorns and fairies foreign policy, and the lies pushed by the admin and spokesliars to provide cover for and distraction from their failures?
JD (318f81) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:41 pmImagine what this country could be if it had a free press.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:42 pm== Mitt Romney secret video: Nearly half ‘believe they are victims’== (Denver Post)
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:43 pmAmericans have to be the dumbest beasts on the face of this earth. I don’t think the problem we face in this country is political anymore, just stupid. Too many of us decided to embrace Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society back in the 60’s and look how wonderful it became. Too many decided to give up on the Reagan’s, the Bush’s and give us this wonderful 2007 Democratic Congress and Way Cool President. Way too many apparently had guns held to their heads and got way in over their heads with massively overpriced houses. Sure, the Democrats encouraged all this, aided, and abetted. They’re guilty as hell. But in the end, who signed the papers ? Idiots looking for free stuff. I was nearly one of them. So now we get Mr. Romney pointing out that we’ve basically become more dependent on government, forget the numbers he used for a second. But the fact is that business, and higher incomes pay disproportionately much higher taxes and rates – while employing people.
It’s become a Godless, self centered society. Just in my short lifetime of 55 years, I don’t even recognize this country anymore. People in this country look all around us for answers and turn to Democrats every time – and I think we all need to start looking at what we’ve allowed to happen. Absolutely blows my mind to hear that 40 something percent of people would vote for what we have now: total failure. With a 16 trillion dollar debt not including unfunded SS, Medicare, what have you…liabilities which brings the number to over 100 trillion. And 40 something percent of us can’t see that this can’t go on ? Or don’t care ? And we could very easily end up with a second Obama term ?
It’s hopeless, I give up. Like being on a sinking lifeboat with 40 per cent of the survivors clinging onto 100 percent of the life jackets and sitting there, While the rest of us bail effing water…..
DaveinMinnesota (685527) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:43 pmJD: Yes, you are exactly right! (Snort)
Odd, though, nothing about Mideast protests or evacuations of embassies. That’s weird.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:44 pmOf course, the most important thing in the U.S. tonight is Kate Middleton’s tits.
No wonder Obama is ahead.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:46 pmThey are pretty. Important too.
JD (318f81) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:47 pm“I’m just saying that political statements shouldn’t be geared toward needlessly offending many millions of people with poor phrasing.”
Alan – You mean like:
If you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance.
If you have a business, you didn’t build that.
Republicans are going to put you back in chains.
Republicans are just going to bring back the same failed policies that got us here in the first place.
Romney is going to raise taxes on the middle class.
You mean those kind of offensive statements?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:49 pm“Imagine what this country could be if it had a free press.”
Kevin M. – Jim Messina already sent me a campaign email about the Sooper Seekrit video. Teh horror. Teh Horror!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:53 pm==Campaign 2012 Romney: Nearly half of Americans ‘believe they are victims’==(Miami Herald)
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:53 pm______________________________________________
Romney said his argument was not “elegantly stated.”
If he’s tactically on the ball, he’ll take the spin of the media and the left in general and use it to his own benefit. The worst thing he can do is say that “2-plus-2-equals-four” — which is pretty much what his “private” comment was all about — then smile sheepishly, try to tap dance, and attempt to rationalize away and apologize for his comments.
So instead of saying not “elegantly stated,” he could mention that a mentality of self-entitlement gone berserk has done wonders for countries throughout the EU, for Greece and Spain in particular, and for other countries of the world similar to Argentina.
Mark (df4ead) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:54 pmElissa – The MFM is nothing if not predictable.
JD (318f81) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:56 pmif you feed a man a fish he will say hey don’t just stand there give me more damn fish do you have any idea how many food stamps I have?
but if you teach a man to fish he’ll be all like criminy this sucks I liked it more better when you just brought me the fish
happyfeet (5e4920) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:01 pm_______________________________________________
Americans have to be the dumbest beasts on the face of this earth.
The idiocy of (in broad general terms) liberal bias — or what mainly is the trait of a chronic lack of common sense — is a human condition. It’s a problem evident among ALL people, human beings in societies throughout the world.
I know Patterico himself says that his wife has that affliction, and perhaps all of us observe that idiosyncrasy in a fairly large number of people all around us.
Mark (df4ead) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:02 pmUPDATE: Here is the transcript of Romney’s press conference. Defensive and lacking in forcefulness. This may hurt him worse than the comments. He could have come out swinging, saying something like this:
And maybe he could say that 47% was a gross overestimate. Because it was.
It’s bound to be awkward, but for God’s sake, man, stick by the point you were trying to make.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:07 pm“As i think most people who have spent time on this issue know, poorer people, young wage earners, and most of that portion of the middle class who earn too little to pay much or any federal income tax, actually pay a good deal of taxes.–Almost all taxes other than the fed income tax are not pro-rated by income (that is are not ‘progressive’). Therefore the percentage of income paid in sales taxes, local taxes, and even property taxes is often higher as you go down the income ladder,[with of course property taxes falling out at the very bottom rungs. ]”
brendanyc – Romney’s statement clearly referred to federal income tax but it is always helpful for somebody to point out the obvious that the federal government does not currently impose state level sales or property property taxes. Under a shameless, lawless and clueless Obama Administration, beginning such taxes certainly is not outside the realm of possibility, because taxing the rich is just not going to raise the amount of money he needs.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:07 pmI say no such thing.
She votes Democratic. She does so for principled reasons. She cares about the environment, for example. She and I agree on many things and she has a lot of common sense.
There is a problem with true believers where they tend to alienate people on the other side or in the middle. Here you are insulting my wife and even claiming that I participated in the insult. Listen to what you are saying.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:09 pm“If he’s tactically on the ball, he’ll take the spin of the media and the left in general and use it to his own benefit.”
Mark – I agree. Attack don’t backtrack.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:09 pmShe cares about the environment
I care about the environment, but I would not vote Dem 😉
JD (318f81) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:10 pm“I care about the environment, but I would not vote Dem” 😉
JD – I care about science and the environment, but would not vote democrat.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:12 pmI agree as well. He should have taken this and made a positive point (and made it better than he did at the fundraiser) and come out swinging. What do you want? A country dependent on government? Or a country built on independence? I don’t want to BE the candidate of those who want to make government everybody’s mommy. I want to get government off people’s backs. Etc.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:13 pm==The MFM is nothing if not predictable==
Yes indeedy, JD. And that was exactly my point up at #18 even before I took that fun little tour around the internets and saw Axelrod’s, Messina’s and Pluffey’s headline writing handiwork.
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:13 pmRepublicans are pretty crappy on the environment.
Point is, I never said she’s a “liberal” (she’s not) or that she lacks common sense, and I think some conservatives need to get over the moral superiority that says everyone who doesn’t vote the way they do is an idiot. It’s just not so.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:15 pm“Republicans are pretty crappy on the environment.”
Patterico – Democrats are pretty crappy on science.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:17 pmWhat do you get when you put them together? An out of control Employment Prevention Agency and other regulatory boondoggles.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:19 pmI like birds and nature and stuff but also I like air conditioning and k-cups
happyfeet (5e4920) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:19 pmRepublicans are pretty crappy on the environment.
Not buying in to the next AGW or Ice Age theory is not really the same as being crappy on the environment.
JD (318f81) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:19 pmI’m a very complex person
happyfeet (5e4920) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:19 pmMother Nature is treacherous.
JD (318f81) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:20 pmkill you dead soon as look at you she will
happyfeet (5e4920) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:21 pmHEY, I’m not crappy on science. The dragon births the new sun every day and eats it at sunset. Right?
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:24 pm“Not buying in to the next AGW or Ice Age theory is not really the same as being crappy on the environment.”
JD – Getting upset when bureaucrats change the conclusions of scientific experts to justify drilling bans or ignore or exclude opinions of in-house experts to generate an endangerment finding on carbon dioxide is not being crappy on the environment either.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:27 pmI agree.
That said, they’re pretty crappy on the environment.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:29 pm___________________________________________
She votes Democratic. She does so for principled reasons.
Patterico, are you saying that “principled” therefore means she doesn’t have left-leaning biases? If so, I think you’re responding in a manner that reminds me of all those people in the media who when asked whether the MSM is tilted to the left, will say “no, it isn’t! It can’t be! After all, newspapers and magazines are owned by big corporations!”
I don’t say that to be confrontational or smart alecky, but pretty much because it’s what I’ve observed in people for quite awhile, meaning the way their gut biases will steer them in certain directions, one direction or the other. So they’ll rationalize, rationalize away or make a million excuses to fit their preferences.
BTW, in the context of the environment and pollution of over 40 years ago, yea, I guess the Republicans could have been deemed as the extremists or outliers at that time. But in the context of TODAY — when many liberals believe that what we exhale every few seconds (ie, carbon dioxide) is a major pollutant, it’s the Democrat Party that now can be judged as pretty “crappy.”
Mark (df4ead) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:29 pmWasn’t this thread about Mitt Romney’s video and press conference before someone insulted my wife and claimed I had agreed? How’s about we get back to that?
Patterico (83033d) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:29 pmMark,
I am going to ask you to stop discussing my wife. She’s got nothing to do with anything so let’s move on.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:30 pmNice try Pat, but total fail.
I wish Obama cared more about working people than he does, but Romcom cares even less.
“At the Bridgehampton home that Leder rented for a whopping $500,000 a month, guests cavorted nude in a pool and performed sex acts, while scantily clad Russian women danced on platforms. Dancers at the party also twirled flaming torches to booming beats.”
I’m with Georgette Mosbacher: Let’s stop feigning populism and get out the Maserati and the jewels.
Call Bambi a hypocrite if you want; he’s half owned by Goldman Scum. But Romney is Goldman Scum.
The Bambi quote is an attempt to explain others’ anger and frustration; the Romney quote explains no more than Romney’s indifference.
I’ve done coke with more billionaires than you’ve met in your life.
sleeeepy (b5f718) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:35 pmThey don’t care about you. What did Rove call you?
“The nuts”
“kill you dead soon as look at you she will”
Mr. Feets – I just don’t want any flaming fracking faucets.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:37 pmKool! was that classic coke or the diet stuff, sleeeeepy?
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:39 pmholy flaming fracking faucets the best thing in the world hands down for that whole environmental thing is economic growth
happyfeet (5e4920) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:42 pm_____________________________________________
Point is, I never said she’s a “liberal”
I was gauging what any registered Democrat is probably going to be like within the confines of the ultra-blue region that you call home, meaning California and Los Angeles. So if she’s a so-called moderate Democrat or blue-dog Democrat, then she’s not only the exception to the rule, she’s a refreshing non-conformist in a place and time — based on America’s and California’s decades- or centuries-long history — when liberalism is going off the deep end. Or when a “moderate” nowadays is a person who, say, doesn’t mind the idea of same-sex marriages, just as long as churches aren’t forced to accept them and kids below 7th grade aren’t required to be taught about them.
Mark (df4ead) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:42 pm==Romney Doesn’t Disavow Video Remark on American ‘Victims’== (Bloomberg)
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:43 pm==Memo To Mitt Romney: The 47% Actually Do Pay Taxes== (Forbes)
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:45 pmWhat is sleeeepy talking about?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:47 pmWhoa, the guy ISN’T using other people’s money to pander for votes?
Rather than play ball on the Democrat’s end of the court – arguing over the size and duration of entitlements – he’s playing ball at our end of the court – asking whether those entitlements should exist, talking about the drain on society, and asking whether states and charities can better serve people.
Liberals want entitlements to be the new third rail; Romney’s response is to say “to hell with pandering, I’m going to run on the principle that your money is yours,” except he’s a devout Mormon and doesn’t cuss the way I do.
bridget (862c19) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:47 pmWhere is the ROTFLcopter when you need it?
htom (412a17) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:48 pm“I’ve done coke with more billionaires than you’ve met in your life.”
sleeeepy – Obama’s done a lot of coke too, the drug not the drink I mean, so you might could have something in common besides hating Israel.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:49 pm___________________________________________
How’s about we get back to that?
Patterico, I’m interested in your and other people’s gut reaction to issues and controversies because THAT is what determines why people will vote the way they do. So I wasn’t sure if you were somewhat bothered by Romney’s comments not because you saw them as being lousy for purely tactical reasons — because you see them as hindering his appeal among centrists (or squishes) — but because they also rubbed you the wrong way for personal reasons.
Mark (df4ead) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:50 pmI suspect that sleeeeepy is doing coke with billionaires as he types these comments.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:53 pmI pay income tax. I am an American.
happyfeet (5e4920) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:55 pm==Leaked Romney ‘47%’ video goes viral; trending on Twitter== Chicago Sun Times)
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:58 pm==Already scrambling to steady a struggling campaign, Republican Mitt Romney confronted a new headache Monday== (Knoxville News Sentinal)
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 10:01 pm==Romney: Obama backers ‘believe they are victims’
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 10:04 pmIn closed meeting, Mitt Romney tells donors “my job is not to worry about those people.”==(Charlotte Observer)
Did a troll really just attempt to impress folks about his fantasized access to the drug lives of rich people?
This is irrational. Romney has rested much of his campaign on his investment experience. He isn’t pretending not to be a wealthy capitalist.
You’re the one boasting about drugs with rich people while calling your friends scum.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a troll so expose his own insecurities like this.
Dustin (73fead) — 9/17/2012 @ 10:11 pmRomney would make a good President, but in order to become President, one must get elected—and I’ve reached the tipping point where I don’t see it happening. Just a month ago, I would have bet the farm on a Romney victory in November.
He doesn’t know how to frame an argument or use jujitsu to affect momentum. He doesn’t know how to fight the media. Once you admit, “maybe I didn’t say it elegantly enough,” all the liberal newswires are then going to say, “Romney admits blah, blah,” or “Romney backtracks, blah, blah.”
And then it will be ultimately framed as a “gaffe.”
He should have doubled-down on the theme of what his remarks in the video were. He should have said, “People, our nation is sixteen trillion dollars in debt—we cannot continue this course of generational dependency on the government. We are steering the ship toward the iceberg. We must reverse our course.”
He needs to win Ohio, Virginia, and Florida, and ironically, those states have improved economically (Ohio and VA more so than Florida) due to their recently elected Republican Governors. Unfortunately, the clueless swing voters in those states appear to be giving the credit to Obama, rather than the Governors. And it doesn’t appear that Team Romney knows how to frame the message and generate momentum.
Certainly, anything can happen during the next six weeks, but I just don’t see Team Romney making necessary adjustments in messaging.
I hope I’m wrong.
Oy vey.
Elephant Stone (65d289) — 9/17/2012 @ 10:13 pm==In video, Romney disdains a ‘dependent’ 47 percent. Dismisses Obama’s supporters as “victims” who take no responsibility.== (Washington Post)
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 10:14 pm“Did a troll really just attempt to impress folks about his fantasized access to the drug lives of rich people?”
Dustin – Either that or sleeeepy just fessed up to being a self-loathing coke whore. I wonder if he knows Larry Sinclair.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/17/2012 @ 10:15 pm==Romney dismisses those dependent on public aid==(Dallas Morning News)
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 10:16 pmRomney is an ungodly whore Mr. Stone – don’t underestimate him
happyfeet (5e4920) — 9/17/2012 @ 10:17 pmOK. I am done for the night. I just wanted people to see and truly understand what has been put out there in just a few short hours from sea to shining sea based on the David Corn article in the obscure Mother Jones Magazine. Pretty organized and impressive, huh?
elissa (518b87) — 9/17/2012 @ 10:28 pmA presidential campaign reveals itself… Meh.
EBL (f71fce) — 9/17/2012 @ 10:36 pm“Call Bambi a hypocrite if you want”
O.k.
Obambi is a hypocrite.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/17/2012 @ 11:05 pmI haven’t done coke with any billionaires, but I have done beer with thousandaires.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/17/2012 @ 11:08 pmSee, a ROBOT would never say that.
So this humanizes him, see he really is the goofy funny guy that Ann Romney talked about.
Patrick M (56524c) — 9/17/2012 @ 11:28 pmelissa – Thank you for taking the time to document the fiercely independent thinking of the hive mind community-based reality.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/17/2012 @ 11:32 pm“What is sleeeepy talking about?”
Beats the hell out of me. I think he’s been doing blow with rich guys all night, and he might be coked out of his brain.
OTOH, he doesn’t sound any wackier than he usually does.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/17/2012 @ 11:37 pmI think sleeeepy has delusions that he is Obama.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:05 am“I think he’s been
doingblowingwithrich guys all night”FIFY
Gary Rosen (afeaef) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:14 am“Don’t be a sucker for the Big Media spin.”
Not to worry (on my account). I’m a hard core right winger, and there’s exactly zero chance I’m voting for wee lil’ Barry, or any other liberal, no matter how much they spin.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:15 amCarlise,Dublin,Dundee, Humberside..there’s panic..
pdbuttons (ac489e) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:16 amwht a gosh darn minute..
is it
rocktober? are the cramps in town?
scarecrow got a brain?[yet…unto..}
snots
snurty snot snot
“I’ve done coke with more billionaires than you’ve met in your life.”
I love that comment.
Is that a cred builder?
Am I supposed to be impressed?
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:18 amsnotlet snug rug burn i fukdher
pdbuttons (ac489e) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:24 amromneydumborderfenfenlimborock
tuffguy shirt epaulets stabby
“What is sleeeepy talking about?”
— He said something about doing a line of blow off of Warren Buffett’s ass, I think.
Icy (84c440) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:52 amI’ve done coke with more billionaires than you’ve met in your life.
Comment by sleeeepy
High, without a septum and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Colonel Haiku (754bc1) — 9/18/2012 @ 4:16 amIts all true that why Obama’s approvals could never go as low as Bush. No matter how bad he is 40% approvals are probably rock bottom.
Dennis D (d91acc) — 9/18/2012 @ 4:28 amBrings a new meaning to the term “whitey tape.”
BeerandCoffee (149f40) — 9/18/2012 @ 4:29 amIf 0bama is elected to a second term, just think of the mess he’ll inherit this time.
Colonel Haiku (754bc1) — 9/18/2012 @ 4:34 am“The spin from the Manhattan-Beltway Obama chorus has been crescendoing for ten days, with “don’t bother us with the the facts” statements such as the Washington Post’s Philip Rucker declaring that Romney’s biggest supporters knew his “momentum had stalled.” (No evidence for this “stalling” is offered up by Rucker, and of course it is Obama’s polling that has stalled and fallen as his convention bounce faded over ten days. Note the blue arrow pointing down at RCP’s “national average” of polls.)
Rucker’s colleague, the estimable Chris Cillizza declared it Romney’s “darkest hour,” and speculated on the damaging impacts of the past few days, “even if [those impacts] are not evident in polling.”
Hey, opinion journalism isn’t tethered to facts, so Rucker doesn’t have to produce sources other than his own feelings, and Cillizza is up front about asserting a premise unsupported by the facts as they are understood. (Romney’s lead has ticked up to 2% in Rasmussen, and Obama’s lead has fallen to 3% among regostered voters in Gallup.)
What is amazing is that the collective Borg of Beltway talkers and scribblers seem to be wholly unaware of the impact at home of the meltdown abroad –wholly unaware.
They also seem prepared to overinvest in the 47% tape just as they did in Romney’s press conference a week ago, in both instances betting wildy and wrongly that their snap collective herd instincts are right as to the voting public.
They are willing the president to be having a good run, but the president isnt having a good run because his foreign policy has collapsed even as QEForever telegraphs the Fed’s panic and the price of gas is above $4 in many places and even as the dread of permanent joblessness above 8% spreads.
Lots of herds have been wrong lots of time in the past, but usually they were stampeded by honest-to-goodness events and data as opposed to something so manifestly closed to real data as their Twitter feeds.
They’ll have a chance to recover because another bad jobs report or the debates will give them a chance to walk back their assertions of mid-September as Romney extends his lead. They’ll come up with think pieces explaining how the openings Romney created for the presient simply couldn’t be exploited because of the terrible run of events abroad.
In fact, it is MSM’s darkest hour, and their stalled momentum as reliable news gatherers has even their strongest supporters worried.”
http://www.hughhewitt.com/blog/g/f8f225db-18fc-403b-9d0e-b6ad59476a14
Colonel Haiku (754bc1) — 9/18/2012 @ 4:41 amHush, beerandcoffee.
Leftist dog whistles like whitey tape are so passé.
JD (318f81) — 9/18/2012 @ 5:15 amI will ad my thoughts
1) Romney said the truth. He should defend it.
2) Romney should attack the media for not discussing the truth
3) Romney’s second sheepish reply to criticism this week makes me insanely angry. He is a bad POTUS candidate and always has been.
4) People follow strong leaders even when they think they are wrong on small issue if the leader demonstrates a strong spine and generically solid political impulses.
5) This winds up the 53. Repeat it ad nauseum. They love it.
6) This may wind up many in the 47 too. Remember many in the 47 can’t tell the difference between Federal and Payroll Taxes. I assure you many of the 47 don’t associate with the 47. Many int he 47 think they are part of the 53.
But sadly, Romney shies away from fights. He needs to embrace them in all their glory because while you may come out bloodied and bruised the opposition might come out dead.
Anyone think Santorum or Gingrich do shrinkage??? Not likely.
Rodney King's Spirit (aeda60) — 9/18/2012 @ 5:37 amMr. Romney finally speaks from the heart.
He will dismiss 47% of Americans as beneath his consideration. He will be the President of the 53% (or whatever percentage of the population votes for him.)
This was no gaffe.
A gaffe is when one misspeaks.
This was not a mistake.
Mr. Romney was telling it as he believed.
For the first time, we hear a man speaking confidently, eloquently, because he is saying what he believes.
Who knew. We had thought he was just a candidate uncomfortable with oratory. No, he was a man who was hiding what he really believed and unable to do it artfully.
Yes, Mr. Romney has finally told the truth.
And that is the problem.
Goodbye, Mr. Romney.
DGarr (d6f56f) — 9/18/2012 @ 6:17 amGo away.
Go to your multiple homes, or to Switzerland or to the Caymans or wherever else you can be with your millions (or is it billions?)
Go away and don’t come back.
Please.
DGarr.
So then Obama dismisses the 53?
Your logic is beyond stooooopid.
Also your POTUS has trust funds set up for his kids off shore.
Go figure.
Rodney King's Spirit (aeda60) — 9/18/2012 @ 6:21 amIt is frustrating and irritating, if not downright infuriating, to see so many people making a living by being dishonest and irresponsible as a norm.
Everything is politics to Obama in order to sway people’s opinion to gain power, just so he can oversee the transformation of America into another has-been country that needs to cow-tow to the tyrants of the world and has a populace with a lower standard of living but “more fair” because an ever increasing number of people are all miserable together, except of course for the elites who get to eat their caviar and take entourages on vacation with them while living in the White House.
Romney makes a statement about political strategy, that promises of lower taxes don’t mean anything to people who aren’t paying taxes, and it is twisted to mean he “doesn’t care” about people that don’t pay taxes.
Dewey and others who saw the public education system as a way to
trainsocialize theherdpopulace to cooperate with the agenda ofthe statesocietythe state are on the verge of success. Dumbing down the population while claiming concern for education has lead to a near majority of “Mushroom sheeple”, creatures who are kept in the dark, fed crap, and follow along mindlessly.Romney’s team might as well smarten up and talk about a host of things that are true and important instead of trying to rely on “it’s the economy, stupid”. It’s not just the economy, it’s whether we want freedom as individuals and as a country to follow our conscience, or whether we want to become a cog in a system, domestically and in foreign affairs, doing what we are forced to do.
When Obama said “fundamental transformation”, he meant what he thought the words meant, not what those who heard thought he meant. It really is a “To Serve Man” moment, though, just like in the story, there may not be enough people who understand to do anything about it.
On the other hand, everyone said Carter was going to win reelection, too, so a good turn of events will be possible until the last moment. Obama has been saying things that sound like Carter, maybe Romney has to say more things that sound like Reagan.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 9/18/2012 @ 6:25 amPatterico’s post downplays the seriousness of this, but it really boils down to this:
Does anyone think you can characterize 47% of the U.S. population as people who don’t take personal responsibility, as being in effect “moochers”, and still be president?
Romney is toast.
Kman (5576bf) — 9/18/2012 @ 6:28 amThis was no gaffe.
A gaffe is when one misspeaks.
This was not a mistake.
Mr. Romney was telling it as he believed.
Correct. As I said, Mr. Romney is correct when he says that the promise of lower taxes means nothing to the 47% who don’t pay taxes.
No, he was a man who was hiding what he really believed and unable to do it artfully.
An Obama supporter talking about someone hiding what he really believes? Since saying the pot calling the kettle black must be racist, how about the water calling the ice clear as a metaphor?
As the clip at the beginning of this post shows, when Obama says what he really means the media powers that be ignore it and cover for it.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 9/18/2012 @ 6:32 amMaybe Romney needs to talk about a growing economy because people actually have more jobs and more income (both of which are not true over the last 4 years) so they have something to pay some taxes on.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 9/18/2012 @ 6:34 amYep.
We have things organized very poorly, with too much entitlement and plenty of people who think the president’s job is to keep the money flowing.
That’s got to stop.
Dustin (73fead) — 9/18/2012 @ 6:37 amThere is a nice outline over at PowerLine of how Romney can step up to the microphone, own his statements, and clarify in a way that comes out the winner.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/09/the-47-percent-solution.php
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 9/18/2012 @ 6:41 amI was actually fairly offended by the remark, and that’s reasonably hard to do.
What bugged me was this: i know a lot of people in the obama-no-matter-what camp. (I’m not; I might vote for Johnson). The overwhelming majority of them don’t consider themselves victims, and don’t need convincing that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives, because they *have* taken personal responsibility and *are* caring for their lives. They’re mostly computer programmers or lawyers, or graduate students of one stripe or another; almost all of them have taken government backed student loans and so to some degree have sucked at the government teat, but that seems like a reasonable thing to do if the loan offering is there and it makes it easier for you to go about your educational plans … all of which, when implemented, are *exactly* the kind of thing Romney seems to be encouraging: taking control and care of your life and using the resources available to you to make your life a better one.
But Romney has said that the people in the Obama-no-matter what camp think of themselves as victims, that they can’t be convinced to take personal responsibility and care for their lives.
He doesn’t know what he’s talking about, on that score.
aphrael (39393a) — 9/18/2012 @ 6:43 amTaper might have violated Florida law. http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2012/09/taper-of-romney-speech-might-have-violated-florida-law/
Jack Moss (676136) — 9/18/2012 @ 6:47 amProbably, seriously aprael, hasn’t California, taught you the pointlessness of futile gestures like voting for Johnson, to what purpose
narciso (ee31f1) — 9/18/2012 @ 6:55 amAfter all the bashing Obama has done against productive people, I am glad we have some push back.
It is true that welfare types are likely to support Obama and reject Romney.
They bitterly cling to their welfare checks.
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:02 amaphrael, he said what he said in a clumsy and unwise way and if you want to take offense you have reason.
But to be precise, he wasn’t trying to, and I don’t think he did, say that every person who was going to vote for Obama no matter what thought of themselves as victims. He was harkening back to the old idea that once a majority figures out they can vote themselves money, they will, and that will be trouble. If 47% of Americans are not productive enough by their own efforts to be able to contribute to the running of the government through paying income taxes, they are very likely to see themselves as those dependent on the government. To be dependent on anyone or anything other than yourself sets one up for being taken advantage of, of “victim hood”.
Now, I think some of those 47% not paying income taxes are not the same 47% every year, and some of them do not see themselves as victims (except perhaps of a bad economy which contributed to their losing their job) but aspire to be in a position of paying income tax, so in that way he was mistaken.
But it is an absurd world that requires people to make logical arguments in short sound bites, which is hard to do, and then blow something out of perspective when the sound bite doesn’t serve.
Especially when there is a double standard.
Not everyone owns guns, not everyone is a “xenophobe”, but if everyone in America who is “religious” to some degree took appropriate offense to Obama’s remarks given above, he wouldn’t have stood a snowball’s chance in Hades of being elected to dogcatcher in most states.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:05 am47% of the people will not vote for Obama “no matter what”. They will vote for Obama for various reasons. Some, because they think he’ll leave Michelle and go live with them. Some because they do not know and do not trust Romney. Some because their precinct captain marked their ballot. It was an idiotic statement. A “write off”, “cut our losses”, statement. Ok, for marketing time-shares. Not for looking for people to vote for you.
nk (875f57) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:07 amSome people who are going to vote for Obama no matter what will do so because they think conservatives are mean and stupid people who want to pollute the air and water, are glad Galileo was put in prison, and want children to go to bed hungry, at least on occasion. They are also people who think that if you are kind to people, even the bullies, they will always be kind to you, even though that has never been true in their experience.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:10 am#160 LOLOLOLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!
As opposed to a President and Democrat Party who characterizes financially successful people as having robbed and stolen what they have? Or calling middle American bitter clingers? Or a Party who always divides our society by race, class and gender????????????
Rodney King's Spirit (aeda60) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:20 amReally? You post reeks of rancid hypocrisy and speaks poorly about you.
Obama panders to the parasites in this country and he has been nothing but bad news to hard working Americans.
George (12ef3f) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:25 amPlenty of folks in the 47 will vote Romney. His point, while political red meat, is wrong and Romney should avoid segmentation based on class as a political point. That is what Democrats do.
Rodney King's Spirit (aeda60) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:28 amLet me channel David Brooks and ask you: Does this include the Iraq war veteran who goes to the V.A.? The student getting a loan to go to college? The retiree on Social Security or Medicare?
Kman (5576bf) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:29 amMy, oh, my. Insulting voters. Secret videos, and only releasing snippets that put a candidate in a bad light. Where have I heard that before?
http://youtu.be/DTxXUufI3jA
Romney may lose. But let’s face facts: some candidates can get away with terrible and insulting nonsense. Or even write their own political obituary:
http://youtu.be/1kuTG19Cu_Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRAMdUNo2Cg
And yet the Kneepad Patrol will rush to defend them:
http://youtu.be/XKGdkqfBICw
Other candidates get trashed by the press. The difference? D versus R, folks.
Alphabetism triumphant.
I think it was Glenn Reynolds who said that the real N-word in this administration is Nero.
Simon Jester (c0ca4a) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:33 amAnd yes, Kman is part of the Kneepad Patrol, as our our Usual Suspects.
Simon Jester (c0ca4a) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:34 amOne big difference: Obama’s “clinging to guns” gaffe was said more in sorrow than anything else (he was trying to explain how government had let people down and they had become cynical).
Romney’s statement, on the other hand, showed outright contempt.
Kman (5576bf) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:41 amNot that I agree with Kman but …
If you don’t pay income tax, are on Social Security, SSI, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, you’re not with me,
is very easy to spin. It was idiotic.
nk (875f57) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:45 amShorter Kman: that’s different (insert foot stomp).
Nope. The difference is how the press spins things. You are just annoyed that the quotes make the President look like an insensitive fool. And I haven’t even posted the hit parade of gaffes, the Middle Finger childishness he used repeatedly, nor the strangely absent Palestinian video. Normally, a vigilant press would, well, investigate things.
But he’s your boyfriend. The problem is, he is an abusive boyfriend who is seeing other cheerleaders.
Simon Jester (c0ca4a) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:48 amHey, Kman…
Speaking of contempt:
http://youtu.be/ZPLZUyxVB9I
But that’s different, right?
Such a partisan prat, you are.
Simon Jester (c0ca4a) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:52 amaphrael,
I think you’re being too literal in reacting to what Romney said. Romney wasn’t just saying that only people on welfare are Obama’s base.
Do you believe Romney doesn’t “know” there are some professionals with graduate degrees who are voting for Obama ? Or that there aren’t white collar government bureaucrats who responsibly pay their mortgage and make their car payments, yet are still voting for Obama ? After all, Obama was the one who made a drama production out of the future interest rates on federal college loans, a couple months ago. He even travelled to colleges to give speeches about it. You don’t think he was specifically targeting votes with that issue ? It’s a perfect example of attempting to expand his base with what government can do for you !
While it’s actually a true statement that about 47% do not pay federal income taxes, the spirit of Romney’s larger point is that the Americans who want “something” from the government or who are already getting “something” from the government, or who are employed by the government, are generally going to be expected to support Obama to maintain the status quo of the expansion of government.
In other policy areas, the Democrats have already argued Romney’s point—and I’m talking about Voter ID.
The Democrats often scream that requiring Voter ID disenfranchises Democrat voters who are poor, on welfare, uneducated, without ID, blah, blah, blah. In other words, those people that Romney was referring to who are part of Obama’s base.
An argument can even be made that the wealthy Democrat trial lawyers vote Democrat because even they “want something” from the government—they want Democrat legislators to continue to enable very flexible laws governing civil litigation, and they want Democrat Presidents and Governors to continue to appoint left wing judges to the federal and state appellate courts.
Also, the “victim” mentality is much greater than merely referring to the typical race, gender, and sexual orientation oppressed minority status that normally defines “victim.”
A “victim” in Romney’s context is someone who might just believe that they haven’t gotten ahead due to society undervaluing them, or due to the unfairness of life, and therefore wish for “the government” to fix it for them. A good example of this is the people who advocate for the redistribution of wealth. There are a number of working class people who feel that they are not “fairly” compensated for their 40 hours of work each week, and they resent “the boss man,” as well as other people’s wealth, and as a result, they want the government to sock it to them.
So, I do think Romney was being fair…the people who generally want more government solutions to their problems are Obama’s base.
Naturally, the left wing media will frame this video clip as some nefarious admission that Romney hates poor black people on welfare and wants to “put (them) y’all back in chains,” as Slow Joe Biden so foolishly argued a few weeks ago.
Elephant Stone (65d289) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:52 am#179 LOL.
#180 You are correct. It is easy to spin. So why not spin it Romney?
Boogles the mind to look at this and not see opportunity. Like getting instantly depressed during a coin toss b/c you called heads at the apex of the toss. Huh?
Instead of sitting around expecting Romney to be perfect — why not expect Romney to perfect what he said?
Rodney King's Spirit (aeda60) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:52 amHey, there’s plenty to criticize Obama about, but he never did anything so awesomely stupid as to utter aloud that 47% of the people he hopes to lead lack personal responsibility and are essentially moochers.
If Romney believes that, he shouldn’t be President. If Romney doesn’t believe that, he’s too stupid to be President.
Kman (5576bf) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:55 amMr. Romney finally speaks from the heart.
He will dismiss 47% of Americans as beneath his consideration. He will be the President of the 53% (or whatever percentage of the population votes for him.)
Comment by DGarr — 9/18/2012 @ 6:17 am
— Gee, if only that was what he had actually said; THEN your comment would have some relevance, instead of being totally meaningless.
Icy (84c440) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:56 am#185 Again the party which always divides by gender, class and ethnicity arguing when Romney does it — he is “too stupid to be President.”
Cognitive Dissonance.
Rodney King's Spirit (aeda60) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:57 amThe offensive part to me is that Romney equates not paying “Income” tax with not taking responsibility for their own life.
Robert (568a7a) — 9/18/2012 @ 7:58 amSo 47% of Americans are irresponsible by his measure.
They are still employed, raising families and paying plenty of other taxes.
Not sure why they are being demonized by Romney.
Payroll taxes are capped.
Are people who earn more than that cap irresponsible for not paying the same percentage as lower wage earners?
#188 That is why his comments are stupid, he should clarify and hit on the right issue … a percentage (not 47) are moochers and they are Obama voters. He intends to turn moochers into hard working voters by being a JOBS CREATING PRESIDENT. Not Obama, a job destroyed. No sense in arguing an irrelevant number that speaks to no one in reality.
Rodney King's Spirit (aeda60) — 9/18/2012 @ 8:01 amThere are a lot more poor white people on Social Security, SSI, Family Assistance, and food stamps, then there are black people. Bible clinging, gun-hugging people, who might be looking for a bit of hope in a better economy, at least for their children even if it might be too late for them. Romney must make it clear that he will be the President of all America.
He need to take a page from Obama’s book. Has Obama written off people making more than $250,000.00 in such a cavalier way? Has he disrespected Hollywood billionaires?
nk (875f57) — 9/18/2012 @ 8:16 amSomeone stop him before he thinks again!
Does anyone think you can characterize 47% of the U.S. population as people who don’t take personal responsibility, as being in effect “moochers”, and still be president?
— Yes, it’s much better to characterize 99% of the U.S. population as people that can’t get by unless they ARE moochers.
One big difference: Obama’s “clinging to guns” gaffe was said more in sorrow than anything else (he was trying to explain how government had let people down and they had become cynical).
Icy (84c440) — 9/18/2012 @ 8:28 am— By which you mean that Obama was being patronizingly cynical.
It’s kind of a thing with him.
Icy – it is okay when the Dems run on a platform of aggressive class warfare, pay your fair share, occupy, 1 preventers, etc … It is a thing.
JD (e4479f) — 9/18/2012 @ 8:34 amHey, Kman? Speaking of “awesomely stupid,” how about Obama saying that he doesn’t deserve a second term unless he cuts the deficit?
It’s almost as earth-shatteringly stupid as picking lying, plagiarizing Joe Biden for VP.
I’ll leave out the “Corpse-man” and “57 states” nonsense. But it proves the point: your guy is a fool. He doesn’t know what he is doing, and all you are left with is…Romney is worse.
It’s funny, sort of.
The real difference, of course, is that Obama has Kneepad Brigaders like you to run defense.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/18/2012 @ 8:51 am“Let me channel David Brooks and ask you: Does this include the Iraq war veteran who goes to the V.A.? The student getting a loan to go to college? The retiree on Social Security or Medicare?”
Yup.
They’re all dependant on the government.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/18/2012 @ 9:03 amFWIW,
It wasn’t my idea to federalize the student loan programs. I borrowed money for med school through a private bank in conjunction with a federal program and paid it back (ahead of schedule to get out of debt, it wasn’t near as much as many have today). No, I don’t consider VA benefits or student loans that get paid back as being irresponsible.
As said above, Obama is sorry that I am a bitter clinger to religion. That is not a very encouraging clarification.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 9/18/2012 @ 9:10 am“All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it.”
I’ll tell you what, way more than 47% of the population meets one or more of those criterion, though not 47% of the population meets all those criterion.
Even I’m dependant on the government. My ex-wife (we’re still together, even though we’re divorced) is a public school teacher, and we definitely depend on her salary to a certain extent, and that money comes from the government.
The government is so huge now, and has so many fingers in so many pies that virtually everyone is dependant on it, one way or the other.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/18/2012 @ 9:53 amNarciso, I live in NYC. I am unaware of the possibility that I could vote in any way for any person and not have it be a pointless futile gesture. But I’m unwilling to not vote.
aphrael (5d993c) — 9/18/2012 @ 11:53 amMD in Philly, he may not have *intended* to say that every one of the 47% of the people who he says will vote for Obama no matter what, think of themselves as victims.
But he *did* say it.
“There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the President no matter what.”
“All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependant upon government, who believe that they are victims …”
I think it would require a *massive* reinterpretation of the words to say that the first 47% and the second 47% aren’t the same group of people. There’s no evidence for such a proposition other than wishful thinking; the natural interpretation is that the speaker intended them to be identical sets.
> Not everyone owns guns, not everyone is a “xenophobe”, but if everyone in America who is “religious” to some degree took appropriate offense to Obama’s remarks given above, he wouldn’t have stood a snowball’s chance in Hades of being elected to dogcatcher in most states.
Right, but what Obama actually said was:
Barack’s comments that are generating all of the controversy: “You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them,” Obama said. “And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”
There’s a bit more space for wiggling there. Obama was talking about people _in small towns in Pennsylvania and the Midwest_, not all people who are religious or own guns. Romney was talking about everyone in the 47% of people who he says will vote for Obama no matter what.
—–
Now, I think it’s a fair point that what Romney was trying to say was more nuanced than what he *actually* said; that’s pretty commonly true for any political verbal gaffe. But I still had to work past being offended by his actual words before I could get to that.
aphrael (5d993c) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:00 pm==They’re all dependant on the government==
Slight quibble, Dave. They’re dependent on real flesh and blood taxpayers– not “the gubment” per se. I think this distinction is important and not made often enough or clearly enough. Where does “the government” get its money? (The part they don’t first print and borrow from China which still puts taxpayers on the hook?)
elissa (4b3896) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:04 pmElephant Stone, i’m taking his words at face value.
> Do you believe Romney doesn’t “know” there are some professionals with graduate degrees who are voting for Obama ? Or that there aren’t white collar government bureaucrats who responsibly pay their mortgage and make their car payments, yet are still voting for Obama ?
I believe Romney *said* that 47% of Americans will vote for Obama no matter what, and that those 47% (among other things) think of themselves as victims and are unwilling to take responsibility for their lives, and I believe he said that in a way which treated the two as equivalent sets.
I also believe, based on his statement, that either he was exaggerating for rhetorical effect or he really believes that anyone who is voting for Obama no matter what is an irresponsible self-proclaimed victim.
> A “victim” in Romney’s context is someone who might just believe that they haven’t gotten ahead due to society undervaluing them, or due to the unfairness of life, and therefore wish for “the government” to fix it for them
I don’t see how you can conclude that when what he actually said was “who believe that they are victims.” Really, his comments leave no space to incldue people who don’t think of themselves as victims.
aphrael (5d993c) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:05 pmDave Surls, if Romney’s comments included the Iraq War veteran, the student, and the retiree, then his comments are even more offensive, because of the latter part of his comments:
“I’ll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”
Really?
That’s an utterly absurd comment to make about the veteran going to the VA, the student who is responsibly taking out a loan to study and get ahead in the world, and the retiree who planned his retirement assuming he could count on a promise made to him.
These people *are* taking personal responsibility and caring for their lives.
aphrael (5d993c) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:10 pmAphreal, you prefaced your comment with the words “if Romney’s comments included…” when there is no reason to conclude that they did. You are smart and you don’t honestly believe that Romney was including support for/dissing war vets and retirees. And I know you don’t believe it. C’mon man!
elissa (4b3896) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:22 pmElissa, *as he spoke them*, I think it’s quite clear that Romney’s comments included *every single person* who will vote for Obama no matter what.
Is that what he meant to say? I don’t know. But he’s not clarifying. So what am I supposed to go on besides his actual words?
> You are smart and you don’t honestly believe that Romney was including support for/dissing war vets and retirees
I don’t think he was dissing war vets and retirees in general. Just the ones who will vote for Obama no matter what.
aphrael (5d993c) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:26 pmThat video is deceptively edited, and taken out of context.
JD (e4479f) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:30 pmPerhaps those assumptions and that parsing make sense to you, Aphrael. But to me at least, it looks like uncharacteristically sloppy reasoning –which is disappointing to see from someone who normally is deft in reason and usually refrains from going down those kinds of murky twisty rhetorical alleys when he is making a point or defending a position.
elissa (4b3896) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:46 pm“47% of Americans will [x]”. “47% of americans are [y]”.
I can (a) assume that they’re the same 47% set, (b) assume that they’re a different 47% set, or (c) hold any such assumptions in abeyance.
The thing is, that the only reason you’d list them right after one another like that is if they were the same set; otherwise the two statements are unrelated and provide no context for each other.
Perhaps I should rephrase. 🙂 *Were I saying such a thing*, I would mean them to be identical sets. If they weren’t identical sets, I would either not bring them up next to each other in that fashion or I would *explicitly* distinguish them.
But Romney brought them up next to each other, and he didn’t distinguish them. So what am I supposed to think about his intended meaning? My experience tells me that this kind of linguistic structure implies that they’re the same set; I know that were I speaking or writing, I *would* be intending them to be the same set.
Now, it’s possible that Romney uses language in a way I find unnatural; lots of people do. And yet, I’m not able to come up with any plausible reason why you would list two non-identical sets of 47%, one after another, in this fashion … unless you were trying to trick people into thinking you thought they were identical A theory which is even *less* charitable to Romney than the straightforward one, and which I therefore reject because I’d prefer not to assume that sort of behavior when simpler explanations exist. 🙂
aphrael (5d993c) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:53 pmI’d note, too, that i’m usually very careful to qualify generalizations – “some conservatives” vs. “conservatives”, etc. And in the past i’ve been grumpy about generalizations about “liberals” which are not qualified in some fashion.
So I don’t think i’m being out of character to be irritated with Romney about this. He made a blatantly false generalization about people who will support Obama no matter what. It may very well not be what he intended to say … but he’s responsible for what he *did* say, not for what he *intended* to say, and if what he said and what he intended to say diverged, he should clarify it.
aphrael (5d993c) — 9/18/2012 @ 12:55 pmAphrael’s right. If Romney didn’t mean all the 47% who don’t pay income tax, then which part of that group are the ones not taking personal responsibility?
After all, most of that 47% pay payroll taxes at their job. Does he mean them?
Or maybe he was talking about the 18.1% of all Americans who pay neither payroll nor income taxes. But more than half of those (10.3% of all American households) are the elderly.
Maybe he means the 6.9% of all Americans who make less than $20,000, and who pay no income or payroll taxes. And even then, I would like to see some evidence that these people aren’t at least trying to get back on their feet (it’s a recession you know).
But that doesn’t make sense, because Romney’s point was that these people all vote for Obama, so he was writing off 47%.
Any way you slice it, Romney was being contemptuous about who he was casting as moochers.
Kman (5576bf) — 9/18/2012 @ 1:01 pmKmart – by all means, don’t vote for him. All that straw you just burned is bad for the environment.
JD (e4479f) — 9/18/2012 @ 1:07 pmMother Jones now claims to have released the entire unedited 47 minutes of video.
htom (412a17) — 9/18/2012 @ 1:33 pm“As I said, Mr. Romney is correct when he says that the promise of lower taxes means nothing to the 47% who don’t pay taxes.”
It does if you’re talking payroll taxes. And it does of, course mean something for those of the 47% that are paying payroll taxes and may one day earn more than that.
And more importantly, it means something to the people near the 47% who are one more tax cut away from joining the 47%.
beerandcoffee (fce22b) — 9/18/2012 @ 5:10 pmIt does if you’re talking payroll taxes.
Except he isn’t talking about payroll taxes. He said income taxes. But nice try. Run along and pick a new name.
JD (318f81) — 9/18/2012 @ 5:15 pm“Clever: Romney Now Apparently Answering Every Question About “47%” By Noting He Doesn’t Believe In Redistribution of Wealth
—Ace
The media don’t want to cover “redistribution,” but boy oh boy do they want to cover “47%.”
How do you make sure they mention the “I actually believe in redistribution” quote? By linking the two in every single soundbite.
If I were Romney I would not let three words pass in any quote without mentioning “redistribution.”
A New Poll… Shows Obama losing 5 points on foreign policy, despite the media running interference for him. And:
Still, in the current NBC/WSJ poll, only 41 percent of independents approve of Obama’s foreign-policy handling, versus 53 percent who did so last month.
This is just a tease of the poll, which will be released at 6:30. It’s an NBC poll, so I expect Obama will once again be well ahead of Romney (as they tell it).
Incidentally, just over 47% (49%) of the US still approves of Obama’s foreign policy. Even as the world is on fire.
That Romney — what a simp!”
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/332979.php
Colonel Haiku (d5aaff) — 9/18/2012 @ 5:22 pmI think Democrats are going to regret using this issue.
I hope/expect this will fine tune Romney and anger him enough to act on it.
Let us see.
Rodney King's Spirit (aeda60) — 9/18/2012 @ 5:53 pm‘Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney underplayed the percentage of Americans receiving some federal aid in that new clandestine fundraising video that is giving liberals, the media and President Obama’s team fits.’
‘While Romney suggested that 47 percent of Americans are dependent on government aid of some sort, the number is actually slightly higher. Over 49 percent of Americans live in a household where somebody is dependent on federal assistance, according to federal statistics.’
‘And the percentage of people who don’t pay taxes is worse than Romney pegged at 47 percent. According to the Heritage Foundation, it’s over 49 percent. This is from a report they just issued: “In 1962, the first year measured in the Index of Dependence on Government, the percentage of people who did not pay federal income taxes themselves and who were not claimed as dependents by someone who did pay federal income taxes stood at 23.7 percent; it fell to 12 percent by 1969 before beginning a ragged and ultimately steady increase. By 2000, the percentage was 34.1 percent; by 2009, it was 49.5 percent. In short, the country is now at a point where roughly one-half of ‘taxpayers’ do not pay federal income taxes, and where most of that same population receives generous federal benefits.”‘
http://washingtonexaminer.com/its-worse-than-romney-said-49-on-federal-aid-49-pay-no-tax/article/2508314#.UFicrFHeDf0
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/18/2012 @ 9:05 pmMaybe Romney was talking about disabled veterans!
/ridiculous hacks
Dustin (73fead) — 9/18/2012 @ 9:09 pm