The Onion: Blatant Blaspheming of Jewish, Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist Religions Somehow Results In No Violence Whatsoever
The Onion runs a picture showing the blaspheming of central figures from several religions, and reports on the fallout:
Following the publication of the image above, in which the most cherished figures from multiple religious faiths were depicted engaging in a lascivious sex act of considerable depravity, no one was murdered, beaten, or had their lives threatened, sources reported Thursday. The image of the Hebrew prophet Moses high-fiving Jesus Christ as both are having their erect penises vigorously masturbated by Ganesha, all while the Hindu deity anally penetrates Buddha with his fist, reportedly went online at 6:45 p.m. EDT, after which not a single bomb threat was made against the organization responsible, nor did the person who created the cartoon go home fearing for his life in any way. Though some members of the Jewish, Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist faiths were reportedly offended by the image, sources confirmed that upon seeing it, they simply shook their heads, rolled their eyes, and continued on with their day.
Image at the link. It is not safe for work.
Meanwhile, in unrelated news, the guy who made that YouTube video that is (actually not) directly responsible for all the violence in the Middle East has been taken in for an interview.
Because I don’t know whether my office will handle any case, I won’t comment on it. But I will quote the Instapundit, whose views may or may not reflect my own (long-time readers can probably guess):
Here’s the key bit: “Just after midnight Saturday morning, authorities descended on the Cerritos home of the man believed to be the filmmaker behind the anti-Muslim movie that has sparked protests and rioting in the Muslim world.”
. . . .
By sending — literally — brownshirted enforcers to engage in — literally — a midnight knock at the door of a man for the non-crime of embarrassing the President of the United States and his administration, President Obama violated that oath. You can try to pretty this up (It’s just about possible probation violations! Sure.), or make excuses or draw distinctions, but that’s what’s happened. It is a betrayal of his duties as President, and a disgrace.
Again, I’m not going to comment on this specific case. But I will say as a general matter that government needs to be very, very aware of how its actions can be perceived in relation to people exercising basic constitutional freedoms.
And sometimes, I think government is plenty aware, all right. And that that’s the point.
UPDATE: How did it happen that the media was on hand for this, I wonder?
UPDATE x2: The initial version of this post stated that the man has been arrested, but it appears that the L.A. Times is reporting that he was simply taken in for . . . a voluntary interview. I have corrected the post accordingly.
UPDATE x3: It looks like this is a federal and not a state probationary grant, so I feel a little more free to comment . . . but I can’t say it any better than Eugene Volokh:
Behavior that gets rewarded, gets repeated. (Relatedly, “once you have paid him the Dane-geld, you never get rid of the Dane.”) Say that the murders in Libya lead us to pass a law banning some kinds of speech that Muslims find offensive or blasphemous, or reinterpreting our First Amendment rules to make it possible to punish such speech under some existing law.
What then will extremist Muslims see? They killed several Americans (maybe itself a plus from their view). In exchange, they’ve gotten America to submit to their will. And on top of that, they’ve gotten back at blasphemers, and deter future blasphemy. A triple victory.
Would this (a) satisfy them that now America is trying to prevent blasphemy, so there’s no reason to kill over the next offensive incident, or (b) make them want more such victories? My money would be on (b).
And this is especially so since there’ll be plenty of other excuses for such killings in the future. It’s not like Muslim extremists have a clearly defined, unvarying, and limited range of speech they are willing to kill over (e.g., desecrating Korans and nothing but). Past history has already proved that; consider the bombings and murders triggered by the publication of the Satanic Verses.
Of course, there are other arguments besides the utilitarian one, as Volokh well knows . . . but it’s good to have this argument in your back pocket to throw in the face of those who claim you don’t care that people are dying. No, you don’t care that people are dying!
UPDATE x4: Good stuff at Popehat, including a reminder that this fellow is really no hero.
But he agrees that we can’t cave on the free speech angle nonetheless.
UPDATE x5: One of the points Ken makes is that it seems likely this fellow would be arrested regardless of the content of his speech, due to the nature of his offense and the circumstances surrounding the making of the movie having nothing to do with Islam, the riots, or politics.
Any way you slice it, though, the appearance to the man on the street is the same, isn’t it?
Ding.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/15/2012 @ 5:57 pma) what did Romney know? and b) when did he know it?
Colonel Haiku (fd6b33) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:02 pmBaca has (spat) on his oath!
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (2bb434) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:05 pmGlens anger is understandable but to call California LE’s “Nazi’s” is way over the line
EPWJ (d84fb0) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:06 pmThey literally had on brown shirts.
JD (c926af) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:08 pmHahahahaha. Good one!
Patterico (83033d) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:08 pmApparently we need Muslim exceptions for our laws and Rights.
JD (c926af) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:08 pmGov Romney, do you regret not arresting the evil film maker?
JD (c926af) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:09 pmHow did it happen that the media was there, I wonder?
Patterico (83033d) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:09 pmAccording to Ed at Hot Air, the media has had his home staked out for a couple of days. The descriptions of his front door were so detailed and the town so small that the media was able to quickly find his home.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:13 pmJD at 8– hilarious.
Birdbath (716828) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:15 pmApparently he’s been released and decided not to return home. Good decision.
Where is the ACLU?
DRJ (a83b8b) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:18 pmGov Romney, do you regret jumping the gun and supporting the 1st Amendment?
JD (c926af) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:18 pmhttp://althouse.blogspot.com/2012/09/authorites-in-los-angeles-bring-in.html
Althouse points out the terms of his probation in the post above.
cardionp (e65e5d) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:18 pmAppears he was not arrested, but rather questioned, but the timing does seem a bit inappropriate.
Indeed. In fact, I was correcting the post at the same time you were leaving your comment!
Patterico (83033d) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:20 pmYou would think there would be multiple liberal First Amendment organizations elbowing each other out of the way to support this guy.
I certainly hope so.
Pious Agnostic (ee2c24) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:24 pmThis is how I wish they’d treated Brian DePalma after he made “Redacted”. But this guy is no Brian DePalma.
Birdbath (716828) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:29 pmGlen”s anger is understandable but to call California LE’s “Nazi’s” is way over the line
No it’s not.
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:31 pmHow “voluntary” is it when at least five cops and the press show up at your house in the middle of the night?
kaf (81bcc7) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:39 pmRemember back, must have been four years ago, when all of John McCain’s ads would be blocked on YouTube, and one of the few news outlets not holding hands and singing kumbaya’s about the guy Chis Mathews calls “the perfect American” was Patterico’s Pontifications, remember how all of a sudden the website went dark right at a critical point in the election campaign?
You still think that was a coincidence?
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:40 pmI heard that Mr. Nakoula is really tough to work with as a director. Now.
Birdbath (716828) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:42 pm______________________________________________
And sometimes, I think government is plenty aware, all right. And that that’s the point.
And “aware” in the dumbest, most ironic way possible, per below.
So the Tunisians were making decisions regarding their ambassadors due to an anti-Islam movie posted to Youtube. Yea, that’s the reason. Uh-huh, yep, correct-o—what we do in the US is to blame for what they do in the Middle East.
^ I’ll be sarcastic and say that the sharia-infused thinking of such countries wouldn’t be such a bad thing if it were applied to the US, since it would involve Madame Secretary (and Bill’s wife) Hillary Clinton.
Mark (1e93ca) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:46 pmThis is how I wish they’d treated Brian DePalma after he made “Redacted”. But this guy is no Brian DePalma.
Comment by Birdbath
He’s not even Michael Cimino.
Colonel Haiku (fd6b33) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:46 pmI smell and Independent Spirit Award for Mr. Nakoula. They go for the edgy stuff.
Birdbath (716828) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:46 pmCol. Haiku– The Deer Hunter is a masterpiece.
Birdbath (716828) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:49 pmman this is like something you would read in The Onion
happyfeet (5e4920) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:54 pm“There is no possible justification for voting for this man in November. None, period.”
I’d list all the reasons to vote against the jagoff, but there’s only so much bandwidth in the world.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/15/2012 @ 6:54 pmBut Glen Reynolds said more, he asked for the President to resign.
Tanny O'Haley (12193c) — 9/15/2012 @ 7:22 pmForget The Onion, happy, this is tripping into Bizarro world and no one seems to care.
The current administration is doing, successfully, things you used to see in movies about the right. Yet, everybody seems to be numb or ignorant of reality.
I swear it’s like “Invasion of the Body Snatchers,” but more scary because it’s actually happening.
It is the strangest damn thing I have ever seen and if things don’t change we’re in for another four years of Escher-like reality.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 9/15/2012 @ 7:33 pmOver at Popehat it has been pointed out that if the man who is supposed to be behind the alias signed to the video in question is in fact behind it, then he is in serious violation of his parole. Not because he used a computer, as has been suggested in one or two places, but because the crime he committed involved using an alias to defraud, and his release order specifically enjoined him from using any alias in the future as a condition of his release.
Now, given the ham-handed nature of the government, I doubt that they are actually harassing him over that specific violation. But by rights he should be returned to prison to serve out the rest of his sentence; not because he made a rude video, but because he has apparently not given up raising money and doing business under false pretenses.
If he had made the video under his own name, or raised the money to do so under his own name and posted it under an internet alias, I would defend his right to be a jerk on the internet without governmental heavy-handedness landing on him.
But if, as it appears (for now, and that may change) he raised the money to make the video under a false name, then he’s in massive violation of his parole, and if he gets landed on with cleats, then he did it to himself.
C. S. P. Schofield (4feea2) — 9/15/2012 @ 7:36 pmUPDATE x3: It looks like this is a federal and not a state probationary grant, so I feel a little more free to comment . . . but I can’t say it any better than Eugene Volokh:
Of course, there are other arguments besides the utilitarian one, as Volokh well knows . . . but it’s good to have this argument in your back pocket to throw in the face of those who claim you don’t care that people are dying. No, you don’t care that people are dying!
Patterico (83033d) — 9/15/2012 @ 7:40 pmSudan gives Obarcky the bird’ denies Marine contingency entry to provide additional security to embassy. Wonder when the MFM will ask Teh Won about his awesomeness?!
JD (318f81) — 9/15/2012 @ 7:48 pmAmericans are now fleeing Sudan in terror like frightened mice
and I don’t blame them the State Department can’t keep them safe the terrorists are just too powerful
happyfeet (5e4920) — 9/15/2012 @ 7:55 pmSudan AND Tunisia
it’s a rout
happyfeet (5e4920) — 9/15/2012 @ 7:56 pmBut if, as it appears (for now, and that may change) he raised the money to make the video under a false name, then he’s in massive violation of his parole, and if he gets landed on with cleats, then he did it to himself.
A condition of his parole was abrogation of his first amendment rights? Is that usual?
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/15/2012 @ 7:57 pmBecause in California there is a law against every thing you might imagine. Double if it happens to be fun or profitable.
How many citizens are being hushed this way?
Happyfeet – remarkably pathetic
JD (318f81) — 9/15/2012 @ 7:59 pmAlso is it a voluntary interview, or is he being landed on with cleats.
The two things are incompatible.
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:00 pmI hope they get home safe Mr. JD
they sure put themselves in a vulnerable spot, Reuters is reporting that in both countries the State Department personnel were working inside the US Embassy buildings!
that’s just irresponsible, whoever put those people there
I wouldn’t put my dog in one of those buildings. (Cause of he might get shooted by terrorists.)
happyfeet (5e4920) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:02 pmBaracky is uniquely qualified to navigate these waters on behalf of the US of A.
JD (318f81) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:05 pmtreacherous waters they are indeed
happyfeet (5e4920) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:05 pmSudan told us to go fack ourselves. Sudan.
JD (318f81) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:05 pmNakoula not only used an alias – he spelled his “Sam Bacile” alias half a dozen different ways.
I didn’t know the alias would be considered a (major) violation of probation – all the news articles were talking about use of a computer being the hook. They probably all got it from one source.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:07 pmI don’t watch the Sunday shows, but someone better unload on these feckless midget clowns in the OBarcky Admin. Maybe Netanyahu will.
JD (318f81) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:09 pmPerhaps you can comment on this Patterico, but as a former federal leo and intel analyst, the fact that the FBI came to interview is troubling.
As probation is a court function, not a law enforcement action it’s unusual they would be there. Additionally they would have no business asking this guy about a movie he made unless it was material to the breaking of his probation.
I think that’s the most troubling point on the matter. Who called them in, the state, or someone higher.
Jack Moss (676136) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:11 pmThe country’s in the very best of hands.
elissa (182596) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:16 pmkids today just have no concept of what it was like to grow up in a superpower
happyfeet (5e4920) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:21 pmhappy: heh!
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:26 pmCan’t believe that Islamic blasphemy laws are being enforced in fucking California. California! The land where everything goes and nothing matters. Blasphemy laws!
The Sanity Inspector (93bc4f) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:34 pmIn one of the more wild spellings, in the August 2011 permit for “Desert Warriors”the producer is listed as Sam Bossil, according to Paul Audley, the president of Film-L.A. Inc. He was trying not to be found.
The New York Times did find some evidence that a full length version of the movie possibly existed. There was a flier promoting two screenings of the movie at the Vine Theater on June 30, and some “community activists” urged the Los Angeles City Council to intervene. But that may be part of the hoax.
TIME says:
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/09/13/friends-of-sam-bacile-a-whos-who-of-the-innocence-of-muslims-film-project/
blogger John Walsh was against it
http://www.hollywoodhighlands.org/HollywoodHighlands.org/Hollywood_Highlands.org_Home.html,
and Walsh testified before the LA City Council and tried to interest the Anti-Defamation League in the film. TIME says he received an e-mail saying the showing had been canceled, and that’s what his web site says, (that it had been canceled, not how he knew) but TIME says the theater claims the movie played.
Nobody apparently has yet reported finding anybody who saw a full length version.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:36 pmThe most corrupt DOJ ever. Nixon’s DOJ with Hoover as FBI Director looks more honest than Obama’s … and probably was.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:37 pmI don’t now if the following facts are unusual:
Nakoula and other “co-schemers” opened bank accounts at Wells Fargo using false names and Social Security numbers and engaged in a check-kiting scheme. He had at least 15 credit and debit cards in the name of other people and 5 identification documents that were not issued lawfully.
In June 2010 he was sentenced to 21 months in prison but served less than a year and as soon he got out he began, or rather resumed, since it seems to go back to at least 2009, work on this project.
He had been ordered to make restitution of $794,700.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:43 pmYou know Jesus and Moses are both prophets in Islam, this is offensive to them as well. Logically they are equal with mohamed and should recieve the same reaction from muslims.
sean (9c0220) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:44 pmNo only did the Nakoula family leave their home rather suddenly (the home seems to be used in a scene from the video) but the nonprofit production organization based in Duarte, Cal. , also seems to have vanished.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:45 pmOh goodness gracious, the media has managed to convince everybody in the world that some youtube video really has caused international unrest.
I won’t say all is lost, but we’re pretty close.
Ag80 (b2c81f) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:48 pmIt is remarkable, Ag. They ignore the actions of the protestors, AQ, etc … Better to blame a YouTube clip.
JD (318f81) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:52 pmI don’t believe there is the slightest credibility to the proposition that Nakoula did this for any sincere motive – the movie may not even exist – but I don’t think he did this to raise money from people against Muslims, any more than I think Brett Kimberlin was trying to raise money from Democrats. He already had been paid.
By whom? By people associated with terrorists, specifically the Moslem Brotherhood and/or the Saudis. His attempt to blame Jews for this fits with that. People have ben grasping at staraws ro explain that.
Bacile claimed that he was an Israeli Jew in the real estate business who had raised $5 million for the film from 100 Jews(the New York Times sanitized the word Jews out of that claim – yes, it is ridiculous – why would they be only Jews? but he said it)
In reality, he is not from Israel, he is not Jewish, he is not in real estate business, and the total budget for the movie was $250,000 according to no person involved, and therefore he didn’t raise $5 million from any Jews.
He probably got the $250,000 from Arabs.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:55 pmThe moviemaker(s) were in league with the terrorists, although the only purpose of this here really was as a red herring.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/15/2012 @ 8:56 pmOh good Allah
JD (318f81) — 9/15/2012 @ 9:00 pmComment by papertiger — 9/15/2012 @ 8:00 pm
Also is it a voluntary interview, or is he being landed on with cleats.
The two things are incompatible.
He might be a long term informer. There seems to be a hint that it might be unusual to get out after a year when sentenced to 21 months. There is no more parole in the federal system. There is more getting out after 1/3 of the stated sentence.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/15/2012 @ 9:01 pmWalsh wrote that the movie was called “Innocence of bin Laden” He thought it was a pro-bin Laden movie.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/15/2012 @ 9:05 pmTIME Magazine seems to miss that detail.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/15/2012 @ 9:05 pmOh. Now he is an informer. Sure that makes sense now.
Why even question brownshirted thugs kicking in his door in the middle of the night?
Nothing to do with pissing off Barry’s true brethren at all.
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/15/2012 @ 9:33 pmBy the way – now that it is established beyond a reasonable doubt that this was orchestrated from Washington, are you all shaking in your boots that you might post an accurate headline and draw the attention of some undecided voters, followed closely by Barry’s thugs coming to shut you down?
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/15/2012 @ 9:40 pmI’d understand if that’s the case. We have history don’t we.
If they’d send the swat team over to your house on account of a pervert congressman, it’s reasonable to assume, hard to imagine they wouldn’t… What?
Send tanks after you to protect the Kenyan?
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/15/2012 @ 9:45 pmThree points:
1). The guy violated his probation, so as soon as his probation officers learn about it, their job requires them to at least talk to th guy about it;
2). Comparing a voluntary interview with a felon (no arrest) to the abuses of Adolf Hitler pathologically crazy and cheapens the crimes of Nazi Germany;
3). Federal Probation Service is not part of the executive branch, so not only is Reynolds and ODS nutter, he’s also an ignoramus by blaming Obama for their actions.
Bonus: remember all the Bush Derangement Syndrome on the left, Bushitler etc? That’s you guys now.
Geek, Esq. (2815e9) — 9/15/2012 @ 10:02 pm_______________________________________
Nakoula and other “co-schemers” opened bank accounts at Wells Fargo using false names and Social Security numbers and engaged in a check-kiting scheme.
This is such a pathetic time in American history, that anything is possible about the agenda of the various characters, including the idea of the film maker (whose background suggests he’s a rogue) being sort of a Trojan Horse. But for whom? The Islamists excited about the return of the Imam Mahdi (ie, their version of the return of Christ) or the Israelis exasperated by the saps in the White House and interested in revealing just how idiotic that sappiness really is?
Either way, if those in the shadows want to play the left throughout the Western World (and Barry and Hillary, in particular) like — as the saying goes — a cheap fiddle, they’re demonstrating just how easy it is to succeed in that goal.
Mark (1e93ca) — 9/15/2012 @ 10:04 pmCrony Capitalism, Thug Government and contempt for law and Constitution.
That’s Obama’s “Change”.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/15/2012 @ 10:32 pm“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say ‘what should be the reward of such sacrifices?’ Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” S. Adams
Bruce (b94015) — 9/15/2012 @ 10:34 pmRadical Islam: “Please to throw pig-dog filmmaker under the bus?”
Teh Constitutional Law Instructor: “Now THAT is something I do well! Consider it done.”
Icy (818021) — 9/15/2012 @ 10:37 pmComment by papertiger — 9/15/2012 @ 9:33 pm
Oh. Now he is an informer. Sure that makes sense now.
It might explain his lenient sentence, or getting out of jail after a year on a 21-month sentence.
Now when I say informer, I mean dishonest informer, but useful to or protected by the agents handling him – who have to justify what they did and do. Federal Law enforcement is probably littered with dishonest informers. the people dealing directly with him may know he is dishonest, but he helps them make cases or helps their careers,
Why even question brownshirted thugs kicking in his door in the middle of the night?
Publicity. He probably was in on it. He had already fled his home – no reporters could find anybody there. Suddenly he’s back? He came back in order t be arrested, sort of, so some people could look like they were tough on him- except that they weren’t.
I’m saying a history as an informer, combined with very friendly relations with some people in law enforcement, could explain some of what’s going on here. I don’t know if that’s the answer. More details will help.
Nothing to do with pissing off Barry’s true brethren at all.
??? The film is a hoax – it would not in normal circumstances anger anyone because they would never hear of it How is it that nobody even notices it? Who translates the trailer into Arabic?
Angering some Muslims appears to be the purpose – there’s n reason for things, like making Mohammed also into a homosexual or asking a donkey if it likes women.
Now I would think there are some Muslims interested in angering Muslims. And I am not sure who else is, or who would know what hot buttons to push.
There is so much deception involved in the making of this movie. It even had a title that could make it look like it was pro-Islam. Two different pro titles. The June 30 screening, if it ever actually happened (as opposed to renting the theater) had the title “Innocence of bin Laden”
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/15/2012 @ 10:45 pmBrownshirts….
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (2bb434) — 9/15/2012 @ 10:49 pmWell, LACoSD uni’s are actually khaki shirts, with O.D.trousers and jackets.
But, khaki is a shade of brown.
Comment by Mark — 9/15/2012 @ 10:04 pm
…..anything is possible about the agenda of the various characters, including the idea of the film maker (whose background suggests he’s a rogue) being sort of a sort of a Trojan Horse.
I’m not sure what you mean by the Trojan horse analogy. Torjan horse (gift) to anti-Islam polemicists?
Nobody used the film. Almost nobody. Nobody knew about it. It was horrible quality (the trailer – there may never have been a 2-hour movie edit)
Nobody gave him any money, as far as it is know. Nobody on the right, anyway.
But for whom? The Islamists excited about the return of the Imam Mahdi
No, the political Islamicists, who need to create some sort of enemy and get the United States out of their countries.
Either way, if those in the shadows want to play the left throughout the Western World (and Barry and Hillary, in particular) like — as the saying goes — a cheap fiddle, they’re demonstrating just how easy it is to succeed in that goal
You know how bad it is. Now the Administration is backtracking on the question of whether the attack on the consulate in Benghazi was planned fora long time – they’re back to spontaneous (and therefore triggered by this film)
Probably the Administration has accepted a whole new version of how the Ambassador was killed.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/15/2012 @ 11:02 pmNobody should trust this guy: The Libyan deputy minister for the Interior in charge of eastern Libya, whose name is:
Wanis al-Sharef CBS early on
OR
Wanees Sharif Wall Street Journal Wednesday
OR
Wanis el-Sharif – New York Times Friday
OR
Wanis al-Sharif – Wall Street Journal Friday
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/15/2012 @ 11:02 pm68.
* How is it that
nobodysomebody even notices it? Who translates the trailer into Arabic?The attack on the consulate in Libya had too many fathers. There’s the video of the supposed anti-Islam film – but there’s also a video from Ayman al_Zawahiri, released the day before, that acknowledges his deputy al-Libi was killed in June, and asks for vengeance. And they act the next day?
There were 4 videos released in a short time; CIA analysts were kept busy, and never had time to notice a possible threat, but now it looks like a cause , doesn’t it?
This is also a red herring. No way was that attack in Benghazi a spur of the moment decision – but that’s what they want the U.S. government to think.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/15/2012 @ 11:12 pm” Sam Bacile” or however he spelled his alias, apparently told people the film was called “Innocence of Muslims” in order to trick Muslims into seeing it. A likely story.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/15/2012 @ 11:16 pmPapertiger,
“But if, as it appears (for now, and that may change) he raised the money to make the video under a false name, then he’s in massive violation of his parole, and if he gets landed on with cleats, then he did it to himself.
A condition of his parole was abrogation of his first amendment rights? Is that usual?
Because in California there is a law against every thing you might imagine. Double if it happens to be fun or profitable.
How many citizens are being hushed this way?
Comment by papertiger”
A condition of his parole was, I’m told, that he not use any alias to do business or to raise money, since he was still under sentence for doing so to defraud. I’m not sure how you get from there to abrogating his 1st Amendment rights.
C. S. P. Schofield (4feea2) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:57 amDidn’t the Muslims who showed the Mohammed cartoons add extra cartoons to make them more inflammatory? It doesn’t seem unreasonable to think that they would use this trailer as cover for the Libya attack with the side benefit of setting off the perpetual rage machine of radical Islamists, just like they did with the cartoons?
Manufactured rage from those who hate the west and want it subjugated under Islam. The pirate warlord of Tripoli at a March 1786 meeting with Jefferson and Adams in London told them:
He told Jefferson and Adams that it was a Muslims duty to subjugate all who where not Muslim. Is this not what a fundamentalist Muslim thinks?
I like Christianity in this respect, the Bible says “for all have sinned and fall short the glory of God” and the only way to Heaven is Jesus the Christ. However, fundamental Christianity believes in “free will”, it is your choice. Christians are not expected to force people into Christianity or kill them if they don’t convert. Anyone who does that is not obeying the Bible, however that is exactly what the Koran tells Muslims to do.
Tanny O'Haley (12193c) — 9/16/2012 @ 1:22 amEgyptian Christian Copt? Are the Gypsies still peddling that and do people still fall for it?
nk (875f57) — 9/16/2012 @ 7:22 am“…this fellow is really no hero.”
According to the media reports, he’s a career, lowlife, scumbag criminal.
If I was dictator of America, and the media reports are true, I’d yank his U.S. citizenship (assuming he is a citizen), and kick his worthless ass back to Egypt, and let them deal with him.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/16/2012 @ 8:45 amComment by Tanny O’Haley — 9/16/2012 @ 1:22 am
Christians are not expected to force people into Christianity or kill them if they don’t convert. Anyone who does that is not obeying the Bible, however that is exactly what the Koran tells Muslims to do.
Not convert (most of the time. There have be some Islamic heresies that went further, like the Almohades, but there is a principle that there is no coercion in religion (apostates excepted) What their goal is, is Islamic rule. Paying a tax and subservience is OK.
What the warlord of Tripoli told Thomas Jefferson and John Adams was dishonest – they were not committed to waging perpetual war, that had not been the history the previous thousand years, after the first wave of conquests and furthermore I doubt he strictly abided by all the tenets of his religion. But it was a convenient excuse.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/16/2012 @ 8:48 am“According to the media reports, he’s a career, lowlife, scumbag criminal.”
My interest began to dissipate after your fifth word…
Colonel Haiku (ce7a47) — 9/16/2012 @ 8:57 amiowahawkblog “the reaction of US media to Romney’s statement proves that Egyptians aren’t the only ones driven to blind batsh*t rage by words.”
Colonel Haiku (ce7a47) — 9/16/2012 @ 9:00 amThe money for the movie came from Nakoula’s “wife’s family in Egypt” according to areporter for ABC on This Week.
No, it came from the Moslem Brotherhood. The story of money from a family (which the U.S. cannot audit) is the same story as to where the money for the World Trade Center bombers came from in 1992-93.
Maybe it was laundered through his wife’s family, but it didn’t come from there.
It probably really didn’t come from the Moslem Brotherhood, either, exactly. The Moslem Brotherhood has no money. It get lots of money from Saudi Arabia – they pay for building mosques. They haven’t yet got an income stream from mosques.
No, the man behind all of this is probably the chief of Saudi intelligence, and also national security adviser and would be king, and probable murderer of Vincent Foster, Prince Bandar bin Sultan. He got the al Qaeda tapes too, from Zawahiri and timed their release.
He’s pursuing a long term anti-democracy goal.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/16/2012 @ 9:02 amIf I was dictator of America, and the media reports are true, I’d yank his U.S. citizenship (assuming he is a citizen), and kick his worthless ass back to Egypt, and let them deal with him.
Comment by Dave Surls — 9/16/2012 @ 8:45 am
— Dave, at least one of the media reports says that he’s really a White Mexican skinhead, so perhaps it would be best if you conferred second degree murder charges upon him instead.
Icy (bd5af0) — 9/16/2012 @ 9:21 amIf I was dictator of America, and the media reports are true, I’d yank his U.S. citizenship (assuming he is a citizen), and kick his worthless ass back to Egypt, and let them deal with him.
Probably why we have a Bill of Rights and probably why you aren’t dictator. Although I think you and Obama are on the same page here.
This guy is actually an ideal candidate for a test case — this sleaze has nothing going for him except the 1st Amendment so there’s nothing muddling up the issue.
Where, oh where, is the ACLU?
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/16/2012 @ 9:21 amAmericans should be enraged. http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2012/09/picture-of-innocence-of-muslims-director-being-rounded-up-should-send-shivers-down-the-spin-of-any-american/
Jack Moss (676136) — 9/16/2012 @ 9:25 am___________________________________________
I’m not sure what you mean by the Trojan horse analogy. Torjan horse (gift) to anti-Islam polemicists?
The film was so clumsily inflammatory that it is almost a parody of material that Islamofascists are happy to believe is a case of subversives or infidels trying to destroy the Islamic religion. In that regard, the film maker’s intention could be one that is at the behest of either anti-Islamists — people so disgusted by the I’m-okay-you’re-okay apologists of Islam throughout the Western World and who want to trigger a reaction in order to highlight how the left has set itself up to be sitting ducks — or pro-Islamists, namely people who are gunning for a major conflict between the West and Middle East (particularly between Israel and Iran) and want it see it come to a head.
I wouldn’t be suspicious of the film maker if his movie was constructed in a more sophisticated manner and, most crucially, if he didn’t have a background that’s apparently full of fraudulent activity.
Mark (1e93ca) — 9/16/2012 @ 9:26 amHere is the ACLU,
Well, at least they’re concerned.
Dana (292dcf) — 9/16/2012 @ 9:28 amSammy Finkelman,
I’m far from persuaded that this is an Islamic Plot. It think it’s far likelier to be what it looks like; a dumb stunt in incredibly bad taste by a man with a history of such behavior.
Which doesn’t excuse the Islamic mob for killing American citizens, or obviate the need to knock heads together.
C. S. P. Schofield (4feea2) — 9/16/2012 @ 9:30 amCourtesy of Wikipedia:
“According to Associated Press, “Prior to his bank fraud conviction, Nakoula struggled with a series of financial problems,” including a $106,000 lien filed against him in 1997 and a $191,000 tax lien in 2006.[12] Nakoula owned a gas station, against which the California State Board of Equalization put a lien, stating that he owed taxes, interest and penalties dating from 1989 to 1992.[13]”
“The Daily Beast reported that Nakoula was arrested by the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department in 1997 after being pulled over in possession of ephedrine, hydroiodic acid, and $45,000 in cash.[13] He was charged with intent to manufacture methamphetamine.[9] He pleaded guilty and was sentenced in 1997 to one year in Los Angeles County Jail and three years probation. He filed a Chapter 7 bankruptcy in on June 29, 2000.[14][15] The bankruptcy case was converted from Chapter 7 to Chapter 13 on July 18, 2000, but was dismissed on October 27, 2000, for failure to make payments under the Chapter 13 plan.[16] According to the Los Angeles County District Attorney he violated probation in 2002, and was re-sentenced to another year in county jail.[17]”
“In 2010, Nakoula pleaded no contest to federal charges of bank fraud in California and was ordered to pay $794,701 in restitution. He was also sentenced to 21 months in federal prison.[18] He was ordered not to use computers or the Internet for five years without approval from his probation officer.[3] According to Assistant U.S. Attorney Jennifer Leigh Williams, Nakoula opened bank accounts using stolen identities and Social Security numbers, including one belonging to a 6-year-old child,[2] and deposited checks from those accounts to withdraw at ATMs.[19] Nakoula had requested an Arabic interpreter be used during his criminal proceedings.[15] Nakoula was released from prison in June 2011,[20] and was released from a halfway house a few weeks before he filmed Innocence of Muslims.[21]”
“Nakoula’s June 2010 sentencing transcript for fraud shows that he was a U.S. government informant. [22], [23]”
In addition to his past colorful brushes with the law, this guy apparently duped the people who worked on this asinine film, by adding in the anti-Muslim stuff after the film was made. That puts the lives of the actors at risk, without them really knowing what the deal was.
He’s a complete ratbag (assuming it’s all true…which I suspect it is), and never should have been allowed in this country in the first place (apparently, he’s an immigrant from Egypt). Hopefully, that can be fixed by booting his felonious ass out of America. He looks like a poster child for undesirable aliens.
OTOH, liberals usually love foreign born dirtbags and fall over themselves trying to get them into America and then protecting them once there here, so they might object to heaving him out f the country on “principle”.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/16/2012 @ 9:35 am__________________________________________
a dumb stunt in incredibly bad taste by a man with a history of such behavior.
His background of committing fraud — his dishonesty — suggests that if he can be politically categorized (one way or the other), he more likely leans left. So that and his wrestling with the ultra-reactionary/conservative nature of Sharia Law and culture would point to his being truly resentful of Islamic societies. It therefore means it’s less plausible that he’s an Islamic sympathizer trying to stir things up to help the heroic cause of Mohammed.
Mark (1e93ca) — 9/16/2012 @ 9:49 amWell, at least they’re concerned.
Comment by Dana — 9/16/2012 @ 9:28 am
— Ssshhhh, Big Brutha may be listening.
Racists.
Icy (bd5af0) — 9/16/2012 @ 10:04 amNo, it came from the Moslem Brotherhood.
Sammy, what are you on?
JD (c926af) — 9/16/2012 @ 10:16 amComment by Dave Surls — 9/16/2012 @ 9:35 am
“Nakoula’s June 2010 sentencing transcript for fraud shows that he was a U.S. government informant. [22], [23]”
See? I guessed right!
He’s a complete ratbag (assuming it’s all true…which I suspect it is), and never should have been allowed in this country in the first place (apparently, he’s an immigrant from Egypt).
It’s not as if they could access police reports from the future. Now maybe there was already something wrong with him that could have been found out.
Hopefully, that can be fixed by booting his felonious ass out of America. He looks like a poster child for undesirable aliens.
he’d probably have to be de-naturalized first. This is a very long drawn out process – too much like a nuclear weapon (in the filibuster rule sense) for anyone to want to make the process easy – and you’d have to show fraud of concealment of something. No, just get the whole truth out of him. Also, go after those federal law enforcement employees who kept him as their pet criminal. I wonder what else he’s been involved in.
Maybe prosecute him for aiding terrorists, or allow him to escape prosecution if he greatly helps the United States. He’s not the real guilty person here of course – it’s whoever commissioned the movie, and told hm to blame it on Jews. He must know a lot and can give all sorts of investgative leads – but get all the old agents who dealt with him off his case.. It’s more important to get the facts than to seek any kind of revenge on this person.
OTOH, liberals usually love foreign born dirtbags and fall over themselves trying to get them into America and then protecting them once there here, so they might object to heaving him out f the country on “principle”.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/16/2012 @ 10:27 amExcept, Dave, he’s as much a US citizen as you are. Ratbag & sleazeball is beside the point. Where do you get that he’s an immigrant, anyway; (most reports have him born here)? Not that it matters all that much unless he’s a Nazi war criminal or something.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/16/2012 @ 10:28 amVia the Daily Mail:
“The suspicions swirling around the filmmaker’s identity came as actors who took part in the movie spoke out about how they were deceived about its religious message.”
“When they signed on to make the film, it was called Desert Warrior and was billed as a ‘historical desert drama set in Middle East’. Because of post-production editing, it is now an inflammatory hate-filled video that prompted global protests.”
“The actors involved have issued a joint statement denying that they had any idea about the anti-Islamic sentiments expressed in the final product.”
“‘The entire cast and crew are extremely upset and feel taken advantage of by the producer. We are 100% not behind this film and were grossly misled about its intent and purpose,’ the 80-person cast said via joint statement released to CNN.”
“What started as Desert Warrior turned into Innocence of Muslims, the nearly 14-minute trailer of which was posted on YouTube by the producer, Bacile.”
“Gawker spoke with Cindy Lee Garcia, one of the actresses from the film who said that she called Bacile in a panic on Wednesday after news of the protests in the Middle East.”
“‘I called Sam and said, “Why did you do this?” and he said, “I’m tired of radical Islamists killing each other. Let other actors know it’s not their fault,”‘ Garcia said.”
“She is furious about the changes that were made after filming, including some very low-quality dubbing that inserted all references to Muhammed.”
“‘I had nothing to do really with anything. Now we have people dead because of a movie I was in. It makes me sick,’ she said.”
The guy who made this is a complete scumbag. He misled these people, some of who’s faces are now all over the internet, and made them targets for Muslim fanatics, while trying to keep his own identity a secret.
If you think I’d lift a finger to help this dirtbag on 1st Amendment grounds, you’re sadly mistaken. The 1A isn’t there to prevent liars, frauds, convicted felons and sociopaths who put other people in danger as part of their fraudulent enterprises.
I hope the government does haul him in on a probabtion violation…he richly deserves it. And, I hope they yank his citizenship and deport his ass back to to Egypt too (if the law allows it).
Again, that’s assuming the media and government has it right.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/16/2012 @ 10:35 am#
Sammy Finkelman,
Comment by C. S. P. Schofield — 9/16/2012 @ 9:30 am
I’m far from persuaded that this is an Islamic Plot.
I’m not absolutely convinced of that. I just think there’s about a 98% chance of that
It think it’s far likelier to be what it looks like; a dumb stunt in incredibly bad taste by a man with a history of such behavior.
Dumb? He’s no that stupid. This guy probably wouldn’t do it except for money and I don’t see any way he does this except for money – not just because of his character but because there’s clearly no movie here at the end, so the motive is not ideological. If there’s a sincerer purpose here, you want an actual movie.
And I don’t see any way he makes any money off of this unless he was paid in advance.
and then his claiming to be a Jew and to have raised money from jews.
There are only two explanations for that:
1) It is true
2) It is not. And it’s not true.
Once he lied, why this lie?
Who would be interested in just this kind of lie? If he was just trying to hide his role and his religion, he’d make the sponsors American Christian Evangelicals. Why go out of his way to blame the Jews?
And now I heard that the financing cam from his “wife’s family in Egypt”
http://www.frudale.com/re-sam-baciles-the-muhammad-movie-innocence-of-muslims/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=re-sam-baciles-the-muhammad-movie-innocence-of-muslims
nortfishlsweetnr Says:
September 14th, 2012 at 5:50 pm
Sam Bacile does not exist. The true identity of the film maker is Naloula [sic] Basseley Nakoula an Egyptian living in Los Angeles, it was funded by his wife’s family in Egypt & was promoted by Egyptian leaders as an American film to they’re [sic] followers….
Wait, I can find a better reference than that:
(I heard that on ABC’s This Week)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakoula_Basseley_Nakoula
According to authorities, Nakoula wrote the script while in prison. He said he produced it with his son, Abanob Basseley, and the money for it (between $50,000 to $60,000) came from his wife’s family in Egypt.[28
Reference 28 is:
Richard Esposito, Brian Ross (September 13, 2012). “Anti-Islam Film Producer Wrote Script in Prison: Authorities”. ABC News. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/anti-islam-film-producer-wrote-script-prison-authorities/story?id=17230609. Retrieved September 14, 2012.
Money from the family, is, of course, the cover story used in other Islamic terrorists plots.
Sure you could think of some more complicated possibilities, but I think the odds are very strong this was, indeed, an Islamic plot, from beginning to end.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/16/2012 @ 10:47 am“Where do you get that he’s an immigrant, anyway;”
‘The man, Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, 55, who lives in Cerritos, about 20 miles south of Los Angeles, was identified by federal authorities as part of a network of people involved in creating the video, a 14-minute trailer for a supposed full-length feature called “Innocence of Muslims.”‘
‘Nakoula, an Egyptian immigrant who claims to be a Coptic Christian, apparently used a series of pseudonyms in his dealings with other people as the movie was produced in summer 2011 in Los Angeles County.’–NYT
Apparently, according to the media, the guy wasn’t born in this country. Don’t know if that’s true or not.
All I know is what I read in the papers.
Correction:
“The 1A isn’t there to prevent liars, frauds, convicted felons and sociopaths who put other people in danger as part of their fraudulent enterprises.”
That should say “protect”, not “prevent”.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/16/2012 @ 10:48 amLike a lot of people, I was alarmed when I heard that this guy had been brought in for questioning, then I started digging into his priors, and background…and all of a sudden I wasn’t too alarmed any more.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/16/2012 @ 10:51 amThe last two paragraphs should not be in italics.
That ABC story is probably the original source of the report that the money came from Egypt.
Actually he probably spent more than $60,000 on it, although not $5 million. And I bet there’s not the slightest corroboration for the claim that he wrote the script himself.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/16/2012 @ 10:52 amDave, actually, you may be right about his being born in Egypt. At least that’s what NBC posted overnight. They’ve been wrong before, though.
But still, once naturalized it takes quite an effort to undo it. I am convinced that he’s in serious jeopardy of a probation violation due to using an alias, but I’d be upset in the extreme if they just packed him off to be killed in Egypt, as that would have a chilling effect on others.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/16/2012 @ 10:55 amCan anyone tell me why this “voluntary questioning” had to be in the middle of the night? Seems rude.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 9/16/2012 @ 10:56 amThe New York Post reports that the disguise he wore was his own idea. This was no surprise arrest or detention – no detention at all actually, really. His story is that he got death threats and asked for help..
And he wasn’t staying in his home before, as reporters who staked out his home could see – I don’t believe he was hiding inside – and his family also was not there – and he wasn’t staying there afterwards.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/16/2012 @ 10:56 am“But still, once naturalized it takes quite an effort to undo it.”
Sometimes it’s worth the effort.
If he’s not a citizen, or he’s a naturalized citizen, I’d boot him out.
He’s nothing but trouble.
The usual caveat: this is assuming the media and government reports about the guy are true.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/16/2012 @ 11:07 am“Any way you slice it, though, the appearance to the man on the street is the same, isn’t it?”
Yeah, the government boys look like total idiots sending a bunch of cops out in the middle of the night a la the Gestapo, when all they had to do was tell the guy to report to his p.o. the next day.
But, looking like idiots is what they do best.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/16/2012 @ 11:15 amiowahawkblog “Russia: Pussy Riot arrested over film. USA: film arrested by riot pussies.”
Colonel Haiku (aba460) — 9/16/2012 @ 11:30 amiowahawkblog: “When you stop and think about it, that guy couldn’t have made his crappy anti-Islam video without government roads and bridges.”
Colonel Haiku (aba460) — 9/16/2012 @ 11:33 amIt think it’s far likelier to be what it looks like; a dumb stunt in incredibly bad taste by a man with a history of such behavior.
Comment by C. S. P. Schofield — 9/16/2012 @ 9:30 am
How is it a dumb stunt – to attempt to tell the real story, sans flowery worshipful rhetoric, about the long dead pedophile opportunist dictator, the memory of which is being used as pretext for modern day opportunist dictators to systematically murder rape and plunder this guy’s fellow Coptic Christians?
Bacile is using the freedom of speech in exactly the right way, exactly the way it was intended it should be used.
Sammy and Dave, refer to the Comment by Bruce — 9/15/2012 @ 10:34 pm, paying particula attention to this bit.
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” S. Adams
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:02 pmPatrick, if I said “whatever the First Amendment says, the appearance to the man in the street in the Middle East is that the government supports Nakoula’s movie and its message,” you’d say that’s irrelevant and that we shouldn’t pander to any man on any street.
So why should we pander because a revocation investigation and proceeding appears one way or the other to the “man in the street?”
If the “man in the street” is part of the mob, they are never going to give our actions a fair or informed evaluation, no matter what we do. Do what we do under our rule of law, and fuck ’em (and, when appropriate, lock and load) if they don’t like it.
Ken (c24d1b) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:03 pmiowahawkblog: “When you stop and think about it, that guy couldn’t have made his crappy anti-Islam video without government roads and bridges.”
That’s complete awesome.
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:09 pmI’m saying a one man mob in Southern California out weighs a thousand man mob in Eqypt.
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:13 pmKen,
In general I would agree with you. But here:
* The executive branch actively sought to have Google look into pulling down the video.
* The “voluntary interview” request was made at an odd hour.
* I am confused as to why Sheriff’s deputies made the request when it’s a federal grant of probation.
* And as to why it took at least five deputies to request the voluntary interview.
If this were in every way being treated as a standard revocation investigation I would have a different attitude. As it stands I agree with you that the content of the guy’s video ought not shield him from liability any more then it should subject him to liability.
But in light of the facts noted above (and perhaps other factors I am overlooking in this comment) this particular action does not have the feel of a standard probation violation investigation.
It has the feel of: don’t fuck with the Obama Administration or you’ll regret it.
And there is long history of similar events that provides context for this appearance. You think Romney contributors get audited at the same rate as everyone else?
Patterico (83033d) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:14 pmWhat was the rational behind sending an openly gay American to be the ambassador to Libya?
Was our President not expressing the same disregard for the feelings of the Islamic mob as Bacile, albeit in less artful terms?
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:17 pmPatrick:
*The Administration asking Google to look into the video struck me as implying coercion and is deeply concerning to me.
*I’d wait to see more evidence about the “odd hour.” Some sources are reporting that the interview was pre-arranged with Nakoula. He was returned after the interview. It’s open to multiple interpretations, some of them coercive, some not. (I note, respectfully, that if I file a motion to suppress a confession on the grounds that my client was arrested and then interviewed late at night, your office will very vigorously argue that there was nothing inherently coercive about it, and the Superior Court judges will, in almost every instance, agree.)
* In my experience, locals sometimes help federal probation officers when there are security or safety concerns. (Probation officers are justifiably concerned for their own safety in visiting probationers sometimes.) Not sure if it is a written compact or unwritten policy. So: might be significant, might not be.
* If you are talking about the five deputies who picked him up — in what was surely an arrest if he he didn’t consent in advance — my first guess is that it’s because of the mob scene outside his house.
I’m not excluding the possibility that this was a thug move. I’m just not convinced based on the available evidence and my past experience with revocation matters.
Ken (c24d1b) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:20 pmAnd as to your point that the Obama Administration does not directly control the probation authorities — I say we get Obama on the record as to whether anyone from the executive branch contacted probation. Firm answer. And if he lies, Congressional investigation. Can we agree on that?
Patterico (83033d) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:21 pmLet’s not forget that what the President’s men did was in effect reckless endangerment of an American citizen.
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:21 pmHe said to the Islamic mob, “He’s right over here boys.”
http://youtu.be/U40r_mWFvG8
Everyone Film Mohammed Day
Free Man (4b47d9) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:22 pmAbsolutely. But they’re saying this guy was not arrested. He was just brought in for an interview.
If you were litigating whether your client was brought in for an arrest or a friendly chat, and the request was made by five Sheriff’s deputies in the middle of the night, would you bring up that context in the hearing? Or let it go unmentioned because it’s irrelevant?
We both know the answer.
And if the executive had taken other actions to limit your client’s speech, you’d be aggressively placing that evidence before the court as well. As we also both know.
I don’t think the full context of this can be easily ignored.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:26 pmAnd how does that affect your view of whether this voluntary interview was business as usual as opposed to sending a little message to anyone who might engage in speech embarrassing to Obama?
Patterico (83033d) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:29 pmI’m hoping the “Burn Notice” guys are helping him out, to confound Islamic hit squads.
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:29 pmAlso the argument can be made that Bacile did not profit in any way from the making of his film strip, and under the conditions of his release did not violate parole.
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:31 pmIs it fraud to protect one’s identity from people who are a probable threat to one’s life and family abroad?
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:35 pmLook: the cops are legally entitled to ask him to talk any time they like. But we both know that taking someone in after midnight conveys a sense of urgency or a sense that some action is going to be taken or both. That alone does not mean it’s inherently coercive, I agree. It tends to undercut any argument that it’s just a friendly little chat. Friendly little chats don’t typically take place after midnight between suspects and cops. Doesn’t mean a confession should be suppressed or that it’s inherently coercive in a constitutional sense or anything like that. But it’s a factor that the man on the street (or THE MOB!!!!!1!! If you prefer) is going to take note of.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:36 pm_____________________________________________
What was the rational behind sending an openly gay American to be the ambassador to Libya?
Sheesh. Another facet of the story that I had no awareness of until you mentioned it.
This is going from the realm of the idiotic and incompetent to the realm of total, utter insanity. The people running the top political office in this country are too dishonest, clueless and even mentally impaired to be believed. It’s almost like they’re trying with all their might to be stereotypes of the worst images that one can have of modern-day liberals.
Mark (1e93ca) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:36 pmPatrick:
Just so we’re on the same page — are you using “the man on the street” to refer to Americans viewing this, or to refer to the Middle East viewing this? I think I took you more as suggesting the latter, which colored my response.
Ken (c24d1b) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:39 pmShould we be concerned if Romney contributors are audited at startlingly high levels? Or should we say: hey, if your paperwork is in order you should have nothing to worry about?
Those questions are intended to be rhetorical, you understand.
Ken, we probably agree more then you realize. I have said already that the content of the video should not shield the guy from liability he would otherwise suffer. I just sense a little spin in the defenses of the optics of all this taken as a whole.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:40 pmYes. With the caveat that you are implying that the administration indirectly controls the probation authorities, which is incorrect de jure and requires facts to prove de facto.
Ken (c24d1b) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:41 pmEmphatically the former — specifically, people considering engaging in speech that might embarrass Obama.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:42 pmI am implying no such thing.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:42 pmIf a highly placed Obama Administration official contacts Google, or the probation department, that does not mean they “control” either.
But I still do not like it in the case of Google and would not like it in the case of the probation department.
And if they did the former then my guess is they also did the latter. So let’s find out.
Patterico (83033d) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:46 pmSure you could think of some more complicated possibilities, but I think the odds are very strong this was, indeed, an Islamic plot, from beginning to end.
So your argument is Sam Bacile borrowed money from his family in Eqypt, then took painful steps to keep the nature of his project a secret even from actual participants, thus protecting them from blame, while also protecting himself and his family abroad, then voluntarily surrendered that secret just to hang his family back in Eqypt out to dry?
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:47 pmAgreed 100% on finding out, and on denouncing it if they did.
Ken (c24d1b) — 9/16/2012 @ 12:49 pmAs John Nolte at Breitbart.com recently wrote, if the Obama Administration is going to publicly assert that the embassy attacks and rioting are merely a result of the trailer for the movie, then they have an obligation to shut down Kathryn Bigelow’s killing Bin Laden film which is forthcoming, in order to avoid more mayhem and violence.
After all, if a 14 minute trailer on YouTube can allegedly elicit the past week’s violence, just think what a two hour major motion picture by an Oscar winning director “might” elicit.
The fact the Obama Administration actually COOPERATED with the Bigelow production would theoretically “anger” the Jihadists even more, since the film’s content will have been molded directly by the Obama Administration.
Elephant Stone (65d289) — 9/16/2012 @ 1:11 pmAs a Christian, I was about to start rioting over the Onion video.
SteveG (831214) — 9/16/2012 @ 2:49 pmBut instead I went for a bike ride and now am having beers. Oh, the outrage… “pop” there goes another beer.
I’m over it.
No need to sodomize the Libyan Ambassador
In case anyone needs any reminding that Sammy has gone completely off the rails, I give you his comment #73:
Apparently Sammy believes the Libyan deputy minister for the Interior is also in charge of Arabic to English transliteration at the the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, and CBS.
Ergo, he can’t be trusted.
Which is just a whacky idea.
I never thought Gaddafi could be trusted. But the fact that at various times Western news outlets chose to transliterate his name as…
…had nothing to do with it.
Steve57 (c8ac21) — 9/16/2012 @ 3:39 pmThe Economist: A Qaddafi by any other name would still be a bloodthirsty dictator
So, in Sammy’s universe the fact that English writers have no really standard method of transliterating from Arabic to English, the Libyan deputy minister for the Interior can’t be trusted.
Sammy, are you off your meds or getting your comments fed to you from Debbie Wasserman Schultz?
Steve57 (c8ac21) — 9/16/2012 @ 3:44 pm“Sure you could think of some more complicated possibilities, but I think the odds are very strong this was, indeed, an Islamic plot, from beginning to end.”
Comment by papertiger — 9/16/2012 @ 12:47 pm
So your argument is Sam Bacile borrowed money from his family in Eqypt, then took painful steps to keep the nature of his project a secret even from actual participants, thus protecting them from blame, while also protecting himself and his family abroad, then voluntarily surrendered that secret just to hang his family back in Eqypt out to dry?
No, that would be the position of anyone who would say that the money really
came from his family, and not from the Moslem Brotherhood.
You’ve come up with an even better proof than I thought of!
It could be the report that he said the money came from his family is a lie, but the claim makes sense: he needs to defend himself against fraud, and there may be money transfers on record.
If anyone else but the Moslem Brotherhood sent him money from Egypt, he would not say his family.
Therefore he was financed by the Moslem Brotherhood.
Q.E.D.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/16/2012 @ 3:53 pmSOURCES: POLITICO set to reveal details of Romney campaign infighting; Plans to publish portions of speech chief Romney strategist Stevens ordered and scrapped, just days before convention… Developing late…
Trust politico to look for anything that might help deflect attention from the serial EPIC FAILures of the 0bama administration.
Colonel Haiku (d25006) — 9/16/2012 @ 3:55 pmComment by Steve57 — 9/16/2012 @ 3:44 pm
So, in Sammy’s universe the fact that English writers have no really standard method of transliterating from Arabic to English, the Libyan deputy minister for the Interior can’t be trusted.
he has also said a number of peculiar things, like blaming the U.S. for ignoring the fact it was Sept 11 and other indications and said he told people not to fire and the New York Times said Friday his account did not jibe with others.
There are too many variations. Somebody gave the reporters that Latin alphabet spelling.
Meanwhile the Obama Adm is arguing with the Pres of Libya and claiming the attack was not planned.
The FBI is afraid to go to Benghazi and we have no idea how things actually went down.
I think the Ambassador was kidnapped interrogated by people who pretended to be his friends, choked to death and then brought back into the locked room.
Sammy Finkelman (8c951a) — 9/16/2012 @ 3:58 pmFinkelman, I think you need to revisit the world of logic.
SPQR (26be8b) — 9/16/2012 @ 4:00 pmIt is the same, and that goes for both the American and Arab streets. But it also goes for foreign governments.
And the appearance is that the Muslim Brotherhood commanded, “Jump!” And the Obama administration responded, “How high?”
We are now apparently more responsive to the demands of the Muslim Brotherhood than to the requests of long time allies.
This is why adversaries from North Africa to China are ramping up tensions.
This isn’t a question of pandering to the mob. It’s a question of realpolitik and you simply can’t afford to look weak. We do look weak, so we’ve invited aggression. This latest move has made the Obama administration look even more craven.
Does anyone actually think foreign governments are going to draw fine distinctions between a midnight arrest involving multiple deputies stuffing the film maker into a squad car, or a midnight probation interview involving multiple deputies stuffing the film maker into a squad car?
And why should they? The distinction is small enough that even an ADA initially failed to make it. (no offense meant, Pat, just pointing out a fact)
Or, for that matter, between the federal executive branch and the federal probation service.
And why should they? It was headline news that the FBI/DoJ was investigating. Subsequently the guy’s probation officer brought him in for questioning. No one could possibly believe, or assert with a straight face, that the Federal Probation Service independently connected Nakoula Basseley Nakoula with the alias “Sam Bacile.” The trailer had been posted for months, and they didn’t make the connection. Then the ME blows up, the FBI investigates, and only then does the guy have to answer to his probation officer.
Just how highly place would the executive branch official have to be to convey the message that people at the highest levels want to see some action from the Federal Probation Service? Especially when the AG is confirming to the press he’s on the case. This case. The one the probation officer is getting the phone call about.
US identifies anti-Muslim filmmaker
Face it. It looks to the man on the street we’re doing as the MB dominated Egyptian government demands. Here and on the Arab street.
And it looks to foreign governments that we’re doing as the MB dominated Egyptian government demands. Both allied and hostile.
But we’re not doing as our allies request. The fact we’ve sold out Israel is a historical fact now, as is our message to the Iranians that Israel is on its own.
Other governments are putting two and two together. Which is why I linked to an article in which the Japanese government is openly expressing its dismay with the hollow promise of a mutual security treaty with the US on this comment thread:
All our allies are looking at how we handle this, I assure you. the GoJ is exactly right; our global credibility is on the line. And frankly the way I see it Obama is right on track to destroy that, as he intended when he decided to run for office, just as he’s right on track to destroy our economy and military capabilities.
Steve57 (c8ac21) — 9/16/2012 @ 4:25 pmJust in case I wasn’t explicit enough, the reason it looks to all observes, domestic and foreign, like the USG is dancing to the tune the MB in Egypt is calling is because that’s exactly what this administration is doing.
Steve57 (c8ac21) — 9/16/2012 @ 4:28 pm“Finkelman, I think you need to revisit the world of logic.”
SPQR – Just seeing 360 degrees of unbounded Sammy speculation is a wonderment. Sometimes I think we have been blessed, but most times I don’t.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/16/2012 @ 4:54 pmWhere potential and possible become plausible which in turn becomes fact.
JD (c926af) — 9/16/2012 @ 5:11 pmComment by JD — 9/16/2012 @ 5:11 pm
I’m missing the part where it’s plausible that a guy going out of his way to not implicate a troop of actors, turns around and fingers his own family.
And doing the MB’s bidding? I wonder why he didn’t hold a press conference?
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/16/2012 @ 5:28 pmWhy bother with the alias?
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/16/2012 @ 5:30 pmIt is not plausible in an ordinary world.
JD (c926af) — 9/16/2012 @ 5:32 pmUnless of course the MB are so prescient that they anticipated the White House would need a thinly veiled probation violation as pretext to shut down independent film makers who make Obama look like a fool on foreign policy.
I’m regretting the Comment by papertiger — 9/16/2012 @ 12:47 pm.
I invited this stupidity back into the conversation.
So how do I unpull the string on Chatty Sammy’s perpetual loop of inanity?
papertiger (e55ba0) — 9/16/2012 @ 5:40 pm“It is not plausible in an ordinary world.”
JD – It’s possible he is an undercover Mossad agent and the purpose of the video was indeed to stir up the Muslim world with the plausible purpose of encouraging Obama to stand with Romney and Israel on the question of stopping Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons. That’s the way the unmentioned possible and plausible facts seem to play out in my mind. YMMV.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/16/2012 @ 5:41 pmI guess that all of the foregoing means that in the Koran, there is a proscription of holding goat-buggerers up to ridicule, for that is what it seems this 14-minute Youtube trailer seemingly did – so it’s (like the pony in the stall full of horse-crap) got to be in there somewhere.
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (2bb434) — 9/16/2012 @ 6:02 pmFinkelman, I think you need to
revisit the world of logic.Comment by SPQR — 9/16/2012 @ 4:00 pm
— FIFY
Icy (7be320) — 9/17/2012 @ 1:45 amEarth to Sammy: the campaignistration did ignore the fact that it was 9/11, and did ignore other indications. In fact, they ignored the fact that the consulate in Benghazi was attacked in June, so committed to the principle of “Obama has raised the stature of the US and restored our place of respect in the world merely by being named “Barack Obama” and looking different from all those dead white guys on US currency.
So committed were they to ignoring warning signs of danger, they even denied that the June attack had anything to do with Obama’s policies in the ME. Even though those who claimed responsibility for the attack said that was their motive (note how eagerly the Obama administration seizes the opportunity when the protesters claim they’re motivated by the movie; the Obama admin will only recognize the stated grievance from those who attack us if Obama can’t be blamed [like all aspects of his life Obama only blames others]). And no informed observer in the intel field outside the Obama administration ever considered any possibility that the attack on the consulate was motivated by anything other than Obama’s policies. Specifically concerning drone attacks.
I’m not going to link to the other indicators the Obama administration ignored. Because I’ve already done that, and if it so far has failed to penetrate that bubble you live in, Sammy, then it never will. But these guys sent out press releases that they were going to attack our embassies, that were translated into English and available on the web, on 9/11.
And of course his account didn’t jibe with the others. The Obama campaignistration is lying to our faces. About things we’re seeing unfold before our eyes. Just like DWS lied about what the Israeli ambassador told her, and how she lied about how there was no discord at the Democratic convention when we all saw discord at the convention. Prompting Anderson Cooper to state DWS is living in an “alternate universe.”
Apparently you are living in that alternate universe (correct English would be “alternative universe but I’ll use Cooper’s words), too, Sammy. The one where the Old Gray Whore is an impartial ref.
But here’s a newsflash; of course his account doesn’t jibe with the others. That’s the purpose of the administration’s lies; to paint themselves in a good light they have to conflict with the facts.
Tell you what; if you’re ever interviewed by the Chinese language press and instead of “Sammy Finkelman” your name comes out “Sandra Tinklecan” and “Son of Fingerban” in various outlets, I’ll blame you for using aliases.
After all, they got the Chinese transliteration of your name from somewhere, and if I adopt the same approach as you then I’ll be forced to conclude you told them what Chinese characters to use for your name.
Steve57 (c8ac21) — 9/17/2012 @ 8:02 amGeek, “Esq.”:
Except that a “parole violation” that made the life difficult for the administration was answered with a late-night massive show of force, and an arrest. That never happened under Bush.
And, sorry, but the moment they take you into custody, you’re under arrest. It looks to me like he was handcuffed.
Plus — why this much force for a non-violent offender, if not to make the process the punishment?
Rob Crawford (c55962) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:30 amAnd yet was more historically accurate than “Roots”.
Rob Crawford (c55962) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:31 amDave, the law isn’t there solely to protect angels.
Rob Crawford (c55962) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:33 amWorks better for the cameras, I’d say. The flashes isolate the perp walk from the background, not showing the mob of reporters or any weeping relatives.
Rob Crawford (c55962) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:35 amAsk Alan Smithee.
Rob Crawford (c55962) — 9/17/2012 @ 9:39 amComment by daleyrocks — 9/16/2012 @ 5:41 pm
daley, the scary thing is that they say truth is stranger than fiction.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 9/17/2012 @ 10:20 amComment by MD in Philly — 9/17/2012 @ 10:20 am
MD in Philly – Hey, it might possibly could plausibly be a fact, but I’m not saying it is. I’m just throwing sh*t at the wall with no basis in fact or reality, pretty much making it up as I go, but trying to keep my stream of unconsciousness commenting pretty short.
Most times, believe it or not, I try to think before I comment.
Pinky swear!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 9/17/2012 @ 11:07 am“Dave, the law isn’t there solely to protect angels.”
It ain’t there to provide a shield for two time loser felons, from behind which they can engage in fraud, and a kind of fraud which puts other people in dangerous positions.
According to all kinds of people who worked on this joke of a movie, this guy lied to them about what the movie was about, and then dubbed in a bunch of anti-Islamic twaddle, after it was finished, so it would like the actors were slamming on Muslims and Mohammed.
Now everyone involved in the movie is at risk of being murdered by Islamic fanatics, a la Theo Van Gogh.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/17/anna-gurji-innocence-of-muslims-letter_n_1890041.html?utm_hp_ref=world&ir=World
The guy who made it is a piece of shit, who put all these people at risk (while he tried to keep his identity secret), just so he could spew a bunch of lies.
Fuck him.
The cops paid him a little late night visit? The government is trying to get him for violation of probation?
Good. Serves him right…if everything people are saying is true, of course.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 9/17/2012 @ 11:39 amcumpar masini rabla 2012 ofer 1100 ron pe loc ofer radiere si transport gratuit
masini programul rabla (973b78) — 9/17/2012 @ 12:38 pmComment by papertiger — 9/15/2012 @ 9:33 pm #
Oh. Now he is an informer. Sure that makes sense now. Why even question brownshirted thugs kicking in his door in the middle of the night?
They didn’t knock down his door. He wasn’t
t even staying there. This was all for show to look impressive.
It had leaked already to ABC that he said the money for the film came from his wife’s family in Egypt. He claimed $60,000 – the budget actually was $250,000 according to assistant director Jeffrey Robinson, according to the Wall street Journal.. (The director, according to Gawker.com, was porn film director Alan Roberts, whose real name may be Robert Brownell or Robert Brown. He who also did “Happy Hooker Goes to Hollywood”) Neither of these two may have known what the eventual dialogue was to be.
So it had leaked out that Nakoula had talked to authorities about the film.
Now, his close relationship with some law enforcement people needed to be covered up. So this whole raid was staged so if anything further leaked out it would be attributed to this very public meeting. And they didn’t want to look too friendly to him. So they made a big, big show.
And later on they staged (or rather reported) the reunion with his family. He’s now at some undisclosed location – probably some FBI or DEA safe house, and he’s probably been there since the middle of last Wednesday, September 12.
Sammy Finkelman (eb1481) — 9/19/2012 @ 12:03 amComment by papertiger — 9/16/2012 @ 5:28 pm
I’m missing the part where it’s plausible that a guy going out of his way to not implicate a troop of actors, turns around and fingers his own family.
He didn’t care about the actors – he just didn’t want to alert the actors. He told them it was a film about ancient Egypt where rival tribes are fighting over a come. Neither did he tell the group which got a permit for him. He told them it was a film which would show persecution or attacks on Copts. Neither did he tell the theater where it was maybe screened. It had a title then of “Innocence of bin Laden” and the obvious implication was that this was a film that purported to reveal that bin Laden was innocent. He went out of his way to say Jews financed it and he was an Israeli Jew.
So he was protecting himself, and his immediate family.
Now why would he implicate his wife;s family in Egypt?
He needs to avoid an accusation of fraud, and he doesn’t have the kind of savings that he could have done this by himself – and there may be actual proof of money transfers from Egypt, so he says his wife;s family.
He doesn’t worry about implicating them, because the only people who could hurt them know who financed the movie – they did. Or possibly anyway, there;s actually no evidence linking them – still if let’s say a anti-Muslim group in Egypt did and he cared at all about his wife, he wouldn’t say that, because somebody could find out who the members of his wife’s family were. If teh Modlem Brotherhod financed this, it’s not a problem.
I’ll say this. The Muslim Brotherhood could have double-crossed him a bit, because he thought they were going to blame it on Jews, and maybe attack the Israeli embassy, or something else having to do with the stat of Israel, but instead they blamed it on U.S. based Copts, and attacked the U.S. Embassy.
Since then, only Iran has blamed it on Jews or Zionists.
And doing the MB’s bidding? I wonder why he didn’t hold a press conference?
He had to say something like that for legal reasons, and also it was the cover story the MB told him to tell to explain the money transfers, but he didn’t want that story to become public, but it did. When it became known he had talked to police, the very public raid was arranged to hide the close connections he had for a long time.
Sammy Finkelman (eb1481) — 9/19/2012 @ 12:22 amAnother thing: How does he get connected with the Moslem Brotherhood? Only if he is connected with q a whole bunch of bad characters, so he has this connection too.
Sammy Finkelman (eb1481) — 9/19/2012 @ 12:24 amComment by Dave Surls — 9/17/2012 @ 11:39 am
Now everyone involved in the movie is at risk of being murdered by Islamic fanatics, a la Theo Van Gogh.
Not really. This is all electronic threats from false name accounts.
Somebody probably paid hackers in the former Soviet Union to do all of this, or set up the software.
Sammy Finkelman (eb1481) — 9/19/2012 @ 12:28 am