Romney and Ryan Distance Selves from “Legitimate Rape” Comment
Here’s Todd Akin questioning whether women really get pregnant from a “legitimate rape”:
Romney and Ryan initially distanced themselves through a spokesman:
A spokeswoman for Mitt Romney wrote late Sunday that the presumptive GOP presidential nominee and his running mate, U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin, did not share Rep. Todd Akin’s sentiments on rape.
“Governor Romney and Congressman Ryan disagree with Mr. Akin’s statement, and a Romney-Ryan administration would not oppose abortion in instances of rape,” Romney campaign spokeswoman Amanda Henneberg wrote.
And now Romney has been more direct in his denunciation:
“Congressman’s Akin comments on rape are insulting, inexcusable, and, frankly, wrong,” Romney said. “Like millions of other Americans, we found them to be offensive.”…
Unclear whether Akin will be booted off the ticket in a last-minute maneuver.
Comment away.
I have no Grand Pronouncement, having barely followed the story.
That’s what you guys are here for.
Patterico (83033d) — 8/20/2012 @ 7:59 amthis is just a distraction from Barack Obama’s wholly illegitimate rapings of our economy
but still what an unbelievably pompous douche
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:13 amAkin is tye-level stupid.
JD (ed00b1) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:17 amIt’s revealing – and a bit disturbing – that a guy can accomplish a fair amount of success – getting elected to Congress a number of times – while being so completely uninformed in a subject that he considers important. Then again, an awful lot of them know nothing about economics and yet they deem themselves fit to make decisions affecting the economy. The same for defense, etc., etc.
And what does it say about his advisers, staff and friends that none of them picked up on this a long time ago and gave him a real education?
steve (369bc6) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:25 amIf Joe Biden has made this statement, the MSM would bury it.
For that reason, Republican candidates have to be disciplined in their public statements, and recognize that the liberal press corps are vultures waiting for the next Republican gaffe so they can make a meal out of it for an entire week.
That being said, I sure hope the Missouri GOP has it within its rules to find a way to get this Akin guy to fold his campaign thereby allowing the runner-up in the primary to be the nominee in the November election.
Good heavens, the economy is tanking, Claire McCaskill is vulnerable, and he’s singlehandedly changing the debate in his Senate race with an asinine statement like this.
Even if he gets asked about abortion, he can say, “I’m pro-life,” but then he should attempt to pivot the conversation back to the failing economy.
There are a lot of pro-choice voters out there who are willing to vote for a pro-life candidate during this awful Obama economy. Don’t scare them away !
The reason the MSM are asking questions about Chick-fil-A, abortion, and the interest rate on college student loans is because they know the economy is the achilles heel for the Democrats.
We need to have smarter GOP nominees than this.
Elephant Stone (65d289) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:26 amI first heard this story this morning checking in on Twitter. Let me tell you, if @AlyssaMilano (a sweeter person on Twitter you will not find) calls you a fool on her Twitter feed, you had better check yourself and you have probably wrecked yourself.
Pious Agnostic (9f878c) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:26 amIt was a dumb thing to say. But as i pointed out on twitter, the left has been curiously silent about the actual rapes occuring in the occupy movement which makes me question their sincerity.
Aaron "Worthing" Walker (23789b) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:28 amScott Brown calls on Akin to “resign the nomination”
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:30 amIt’s been interesting to see the Left response to this. Not one of these people have said the only productive thing: folks with expertise in this area (sad thing indeed) need to sit down with Akin and educate him.
And not just about biology. Instead, about being thoughtful and compassionate.
I thought some of his response was a step in the right direction, but his first video statement ruined him for so many people. His mouth wrote a check he cannot cash.
Simon Jester (f40cea) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:31 amIn 1990, Texas oilman Clayton Williams was the GOP nominee for Governor running in the general election against Democrat Ann “George Bush was born with a silver spoon in his mouth !” Richards.
Williams was twenty points ahead in the polls.
Early in the summer, he said, “If rape is inevitable, then you may as well lay back and enjoy it.”
The Richards campaign responded by banging their pots and pans about that statement all summer and early autumn long.
Guess who ended up not winning the race !
Elephant Stone (65d289) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:33 amIf both ends of the abortion spectrum would show some humanity and reason this country would be in a much better place. Snipping the spinal chord or sucking the brains out of a salvageable full term baby through partial birth abortion is despicable beyond words. Taking the position that an innocent female victim of brutal rape or incest should be forced to carry her victimizer’s child inside her body as a daily reminder of the rape for nine months is also despicable, IMO.
Thank goodness Romney-Ryan do not agree with Akin and said so forcefully and immediately, but they did not need this social issues distraction. Akin’s video statement is a bell that cannot be unrung and it is a gift to OFA.
That said, Akin will stay in the MO senate race and very likely will still win. But ironically his statement will resonate across the country with the media’s help–scaring people about those “extreme woman hating Republicans”– and I fear that may impact other GOP races in a very very negative way.
elissa (1bb070) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:37 amhere’s the actual words what he actually said out loud in front of people plus a broadcast audience
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:39 amThere’s a New York Times story about it today on page A13.
In Rapes, Candidate Says, Body Can Block Pregnancy
I gave it the headline it had in the printed newspaper, not the one you see online.
Otherwise, without this article, I wouldn’t have been able to understand this.
Sammy Finkelman (b9340a) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:42 amHow comfortable would you be going to one of those ‘doctors’ who allegedly told Akin this?
steve (369bc6) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:43 amhe’s lying now and saying he “misspoke”
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:49 amI read something like this years ago, and it was not written by somebody trying to make a point against abortion – I thinkit dates from the 1960s or earlier and is based on some genuine medical study. But I always understood that to mean,it happens some of the time. I think Todd Akin didn’t understand that.
It’s not an unreasonable proposition. We know emotional distress can cause miscarriages, so why shouldn’t this happen with a certain percentage of rapes?
That said, it is possible for things to look that way without really being that way.
First of all, a woman is fertile during only a short period in the middle of her month. But people may not know that time.
Also, approximately one third of all pregnancies end in miscarriage (disproportionately extremely early) probably because the genes of the foetus are incompatible with life. We can also add that adrenalin interferes with male fertility.
Akin actually somehow understood there are rapes that are carried to term, so he really was confused.
The moral or ethical issue is not so easily resolved as he was thinking. (that all real rapes are spontaneously aborted)
Sammy Finkelman (b9340a) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:57 amNever miss an opportunity to make the story about something else totally unrelated….
Kman (5576bf) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:59 amIt’s a political suicide. Todd Akin was odds-on favorite to retire Claire McCaskill and now he’s an embarrassment, a pariah in the Republican Party, a man too stupid to even continue representing Missouri’s 2nd Congressional District much less his State in the Senate.
Todd Akin’s idiot mumbo-jumbo will be an albatross around the neck of every GOP candidate running for office. Akin has to go and the sooner the better.
ropelight (29a1d8) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:59 am(that all real rapes are spontaneously aborted)
beyond that Mr. Sammy our friend Todd thinks women have a duty to bear children for their rapist
that’s just weird and wrong and definitely something someone has to decide for themselves
like Mr. ropelight says Akin has to go and the sooner the better
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:02 amIt is interesting – the trio of exceptions now are
1) rape
2) incest
3) life (or danger to health) of the mother.
But in the early and mid 1960s, when Planned Parenthood began its campaign to legalize abortion, rape was not, I think on the listof cases where abortion would be most justified, but ‘
1 Birth defects
were.
Birth defects, even deadly ones, are not on that list now, but rape is. Its still advocated very much when it happens, but never cited in arguments.
Sammy Finkelman (b9340a) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:02 amOverreaction anybody?
Akin issued a clarification and correction yesterday.
I’m surprised Patterico did not include it with the post.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:06 amSenator Claire McCaskill basically followed the Harry Reid strategy for winning an election – try to affect whom the nominee of the other party will be. In Harry Reid’s case, he held back from attacking Sharon Angle – in Claire McCaskill’s she ran ads portraying Akin as very conservative, building him up as a strong candidate and appealing to the right.
Sammy Finkelman (b9340a) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:06 amAkin has said he misspoke and what he said doesn’t reflect “the deep empathy” he feels for the thousands of women who are “raped and abused” (abused??) every year.
He said abortion is a very emotionally charged issue and he believes deeply in the protection of all life.
He didn’t say whether he was right or wrong about spontaneous abortions.
Sammy Finkelman (b9340a) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:10 amThis is especially true in light of the fact that we require men to kill other people to defend someone else’s land.
Why should not women be able to kill to defend their own bodies?
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:13 amIf a man is going to presume to have an opinion on abortion, he should at least get his medical facts straight.
The Sanity Inspector (79aa38) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:14 amHe didn’t. He merely stated that he “misspoke”, but didn’t clarify in what way he misspoke. For all we know, he still believes his ridiculous statement that women biologically can prevent pregnancies from rape.
Kman (5576bf) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:17 amYes, we know Romany wants to talk economy 24/7.
Then why comment at all, especially to clarify.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:21 am“I have no Grand Pronouncement, having barely followed the story.
That’s what you guys are here for.”
– Patterico
That’s not very nice.
Leviticus (102f62) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:25 amKmart is kind of creepy how it follows AW around.
JD (ed00b1) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:30 amKman–you’ll note the condemnation of Akin’s statement and his “reasoning” has been pretty uniform from commenters on this thread today. Have you ever publicly decried the horrors of partial birth abortion? If so, might you link us to some of those comments? Or do you, like our president, think killing a baby in the birth canal is just fine and dandy?
elissa (1bb070) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:31 amwhy does this not also apply to Joe Biden?
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:32 amAtkins made a dumb reply to a leading question about abortion. This is a tempest in a tea pot. He actually had a small point about pregnancy after rape but he should not have answered the question. Whoopi Goldberg called it “rape rape.”
Mike K (326cba) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:32 am” Or do you, like our president, think killing a baby in the birth canal is just fine and dandy?”
Obama goes well beyond that. He sponsored legislation in the Illinois Senate to stop attempts to save a baby that survives an abortion. There are some. I’ve seen them.
Mike K (326cba) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:34 amThe Democrats of course just want to talk about emotions, not the scientific issue.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248
RESULTS:
The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator. Only 11.7% of these victims received immediate medical attention after the assault, and 47.1% received no medical attention related to the rape. A total 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester; 32.2% opted to keep the infant whereas 50% underwent abortion and 5.9% placed the infant for adoption; an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion.
Something is probably wrong with that study? Five percent?!!
This is the late 1980s or 1990s. None of these women are on the pill? I suspect the researchers manipulated the data,or else the pregnancy rate would have turned up higher than that of married couples trying to conceive!!
They say this was a 3 year longitudinal study 4008 adult American women, and there were 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, mostly among adolescents and mostly by related persons.
I think the problem here is that this is retrospective and may involve cases where the rape was reported only after the woman became pregnant. So you can’t tell the true incidence of rape causing pregnancy. The fact that so many of these pregnancies were among adolescents (less likely to use birth control) and among relatives (which probably means repeated instances of forced intercourse) the incidence of pregnancy is probably a lot less than 5%. Also the incidence of spontaneous abortion is probably a lot higher than 11.8% because they would only include cases after the pregnancy had been confirmed, but the vast majority of spontaneous abortions occur very very early. 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester.
What they did was as follows:
32.2% opted to keep the infant
50% underwent abortion
5.9% placed the infant for adoption
11.8% had a spontaneous abortion after the pregnancy was medically confirmed
Probably many more before.
Anyway, I haven’t found the study Akin relied on – this idea did not come out of his own head, but probably somewhere along the line the point that this didn’t happen to all victims of rape who really didn’t like it, got lost.
Sammy Finkelman (b9340a) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:35 amYeah, but Goldberg is not running for office.
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:35 am“If a man is going to presume to have an opinion on abortion, he should at least get his medical facts straight.
Comment by The Sanity Inspector — 8/20/2012 @ 9:14 am
Akin issued a clarification and correction yesterday.
He didn’t. He merely stated that he “misspoke”, but didn’t clarify in what way he misspoke. For all we know, he still believes his ridiculous statement that women biologically can prevent pregnancies from rape.
Comment by Kman —”
There is no rule about commenting on stuff you have no idea about. There is evidence that stress may reduce the probability of pregnancy; like the stress of forcible rape. Still he had no business responding to the gotcha question, just as you two had no business commenting about it.
Mike K (326cba) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:36 amVery good point.
And 5% is rare.
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:37 amComment by Kman — 8/20/2012 @ 9:17 am
For all we know, he still believes his ridiculous statement that women biologically can prevent pregnancies from rape.
he almost certainly still believes that, or is now uncertain.
And it is not ridiculous. What’s wrong is the idea that this happens in all or almost all cases of “rape-rape”
But I don’t think it’s wrong that it happens at a higher frequency than that of pregnancies that arise in ordinary circumstances.
Also that figure of 5% of rapes resulting in pregnancies that’s in that 1996 study has to be way wrong. Otherwise why should the rate be so much higher among adolescent victims of rape (less likely to be on the pill) or where they were acquainted with the rapist (likely to have forced sexual intercourse repeatedly, and less likely to have used forced at the time of the rape)
Sammy Finkelman (b9340a) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:44 amDoes anyone remember if the Obama campaign distanced themselves from Joe Biden’s statements?
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:48 am5% translates to about 32,000 women per year. That’s 32,000 women per year who get pregnant as a result of rape.
But I’m not sure why the frequency makes any difference to the discussion. Are people suggesting that there should be no “rape exception” to abortion bans, because it “only” happens to 32,000 women per year?
Kman (5576bf) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:48 amNo.
I honestly do not understand why people would oppose rape exceptions to abortion bans? Is it not self-defense? We already justify killing people to defend someone else’s land. We already justify dropping atomic bombs that resulted int he deaths of dozens of unborn babies in retaliation for firing ammunition at a bunch of buildings and ships.
Why then, is it offensive for a pregnant rape victim to kill to defend her own body?
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:56 am“It’s the economy, stupid.”
Elephant Stone (65d289) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:58 amKmart likes to argue with the outliers. “people” are not suggesting that, d-bag. They are pointing out stats. They speak for themselves.
JD (ed00b1) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:58 amJackie Robinson has a lifetime average of .311. That’s a stat, too.
I’m asking for the relevance of the “stat” that 5% of raped women (or, 32,000 women per year) get pregnant from that rape. What does that have to do with Akin (other than proving him wrong?)
Kman (5576bf) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:03 am#34 above –
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8765248
RESULTS:
The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator. Only 11.7% of these victims received immediate medical attention after the assault, and 47.1% received no medical attention related to the rape. A total 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester; 32.2% opted to keep the infant whereas 50% underwent abortion and 5.9% placed the infant for adoption; an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion.
Something is probably wrong with that study? Five percent?!!
They say this was a 3 year longitudinal study 4008 adult American women, and there were 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, mostly among adolescents and mostly by related persons.
The above citation in from the abstract – I was unable to access the full study. The abstract was for 4,008 women in which there were 34 cases of rape related pregnancy – that works out to approx .8% not 5.0%.
Joe (a00dc1) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:05 amWhich is the correct answer, .8% or 5.0%
Just what part of Missouri is this guy from, anyway? The place where it’s rape if you’re sister wants your brother to go first?
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:05 amShut up, Kman. You too, Sammy.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:06 amAkin needs a booting.
SarahW (b0e533) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:07 amComment by Michael Ejercito — 8/20/2012 @ 9:48 am
Does anyone remember if the Obama campaign distanced themselves from Joe Biden’s statements?
The Obama campaign – in fact President Obama himself – “explained” it.
Poor Biden just got carried away with himself, and he was trying to say: “you, consumers, the American people, will be a lot worse off if we repeal these [Wall Street reform] laws as the other side is suggesting,” and in no sense was he trying to connote anything else.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/obama-defends-biden-after-chains-remark/
Sammy Finkelman (0379ec) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:10 amWhich is the correct answer, .8% or 5.0%
Comment by Joe — 8/20/2012 @ 10:05 am
— WHY does “the correct answer” matter?
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:11 amThe 4,008 women study group included raped and not raped women.
So 5% of all raped women get pregnant from that rape.
But being a woman, your changes are 0.8% that you will get pregnant from a rape in your lifetime.
Kman (5576bf) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:12 amShut up, Kman. You too, Sammy.
Comment by nk — 8/20/2012 @ 10:06 am
— Hear hear!
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:12 amSo why should this not sink the Obama campaign, if Akins’s remarks are supposed to sink his campaign?
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:19 amR.I.P. Scott McKenzie, singer of “San Francisco (Be Sure to Wear Flowers in Your Hair)”
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:24 amYou are being disingenuous as usual. Akin made a stupid statement that is indefensible, but obviously stress can reduce fertility rates. It’s not as though the body is intentionally doing this. It’s not as though it diminishes the horror of rape. But these are disingenuous ways of discussing whether it is OK to murder a child whose father was a rapist and mother would be burdened to allow the child to live.
For someone who believes abortion is murder, a rape exception is irrational. It’s a case of two wrongs making a horrible situation worse. Many have noted that it indeed can magnify the suffering and victimization of the rape victim.
But these are serious issues for adults to discuss. I should know better than to respond to the children.
Dustin (73fead) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:25 am_____________________________________________
This tempest in a teapot reminds me of the different reactions to a dumb comment out of the mouth of a conservative versus a dumb comment out of the mouth of a liberal.
^ But this does seem to mirror the dynamics of the way many people will treat foolishness from an adult compared with that from an immature kid. I notice that even I expect more and better from a conservative/Republican than from a typical liberal/Democrat.
I guess from a tactical standpoint that does naturally help those on the left, but it also makes me realize how innately condescending that is towards liberals. It’s sort of a variation of the phrase “the bigotry of low expectations” applied not to minorities (or non-whites) in America but to the left.
Mark (d47523) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:28 amR.I.P. Harry Harrison, science fiction author par excellence
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:29 amThe rape exception is rational, because abortion in case of rape is simply killing to defend one’s own body.
Of course, if that was murder, it would also mean that it is murder to kill people to defend a piece of land. It would be murder to kill people in retaliation for having a bunch of buildings and ships shot at.
The only people who can credibly claim that abortion is murder even in cases of rape is the Code Pink crowd.
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:32 amJoe: 8/20/2012 @ 10:05 am
that works out to approx .8% not 5.0%.
Which is the correct answer, .8% or 5.0%
5% is the supposed percentage of rapes that result in pregnancy – way too high. I explained how they could have come up with that number.
5% = 1/20.
That means they have 34×20 = 680 rapes or 680 raped women over the course of 3 years among those 4,008 women, which would seem to be a rape rate of 17%, except they are probably counting multiple rapes among the same women (a whole relationship could be considered rape)
But these women probably underestimated the number of times they had had intercourse. They probably asked the women involved to think more carefully until they got a percentage of impregnation per act of intercourse that wasn’t ridiculously high, and then they stopped. But it’s too high because this number might only exist in the total absence of birth control.
Cases of rape (which may include women in unhappy or worse relationships) that did not result in pregnancy were probably far less likely to be reported and included in the study. So the number of rapes was probably higher than 680, and the percentage of rapes resulting in pregnancy lower, and many of these rapes were in abusive relationships, or where the whole relationship was intrinsically abuse, and the percentage of women affected probably closer to .8% than 5%.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:38 amI expect these kind of comments from the HuffPo. Patterico is typically a reality based community. What Akin said (about pregnancy and rape) is true. The body under stress does respond in ways that reduces the liklihood of pregnancy. He might have been more eloquent in his delivery, but you can’t fault his facts. Most of the over-the-top comments above are taking him to task for things he never said.
pildiddy3 (40e05c) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:39 amAnd the percentage of pregnancies that spontaneously aborted was probably higher than 11.8% – that being the percentage of pregnancies that spontaneously aborted after being medically confirmed, but many of these women found out later than usual.
So the actual spontaneous abortion rate was higher than 11.8% and could indeed be higher than in happy circumstances.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:42 am_____________________________________________
“San Francisco (Be Sure to Wear Flowers in Your Hair)”
Personally, I greatly dislike that song, although its sappy, effete, goofy-hippy quality does seem somehow fitting for the city it’s all about. And speaking of places that are always chronically, mindlessly, nonsensically liberal…
Mark (d47523) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:43 amStress can affect a woman’s natural cycle, but that is irrelevant to what Akin was saying. Once a woman has ovulated, then stress — even the stress of a rape — doesn’t prevent the rapist’s sperm from fertilizing the egg.
Your first two statements, I’ll accept. I don’t believe it, but I understand that other people can hold that view.
But your last statement doesn’t pass the laugh test. It’s wishful thinking. Being compelled (by law!) to carry the rapist’s child would prolong the suffering of the rape victim. I think you are engaging in a bit of projection or something.
Kman (5576bf) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:43 amOn the other hand, he did say that he opposed abortion in the case of rape.
If abortion can not be justified for that, ro repel a literal invasion of one’s own body, then no killing can be justified. Certainly not soldiers killing to defend our country. Certainly not the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
If Akins can not stand behind women who kill to defend their own bodies, how can we trust him to stand behind men who are ordered to kill to defend our country?
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:46 amI wonder if that complicates the decision to have an abortion, since the father would be someone the victim knows well, as opposed to a stranger hiding in the bushes.
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:48 amIt’s a razor’s edge, but I’ll go with the sentient, feeling being’s decision — the mother’s. I will not tell her “I’m from the government, and I love your rape baby more than you do”.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:49 amThat’s certainly easy for you to say.
I think it’s quite plausible that a rape victim can regret aborting the child.
Most moms I know like their children, even though it is often a challenge and labor is painful.
You’re the one expressing certainty and insisting only one side of this is possible. If you attempt to read my comment more honestly, you will see I did not make such an absolute statement. I allow for both sides to be true in different situations.
But as usual, you are incapable of understanding a different point of view or even responding to it without getting it wrong.
Dustin (73fead) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:50 amLearn how to read, Kman. Then shut the f___ up!
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:51 amThe electorate’s record for rejecting candidates because of stupid statements is spotty, at best. They rejected Alan Grayson, while electing Richard Blumenthal.
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:01 amComment by Kman — 8/20/2012 @ 10:12 am
But being a woman, your changes are 0.8% that you will get pregnant from a rape in your lifetime.
No, not in your lifetime. Over a three year period, if you lived near the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Medical University of South Carolina, in Charleston during the early 1990s and were attended by these doctors or doctors they knew. Many more poor and on Medicaid than average. All women aged 12 to 45 were included.
That .8% pregnancy rate (over 3 years) is heavily tilted toward women under 19 or younger. “The majority of these pregnancies [that is over half] occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator.”
So it’s a lot higher than .8% in that cohort.
Some of these women might have become pregnant more than once in that period of, so the incidence could be lower than that. Rape is broadly defined. Only 11.7% received any kind of medical attention immediately after the assault and only slightly more than half (52.9%) had anything different done because of it, which might only mean they inquired if they were pregnant.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:03 amThere is, actually, a “legitimate rape” but we call it “planned pregnancy”, where, at the very least it’s wearisome, and more often it’s humiliating, painful and dangerous, for the woman. Somehow, I don’t think that’s what this s__t-kicker was talking about.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:04 amComment by pildiddy3 — 8/20/2012 @ 10:39 am
He might have been more eloquent in his delivery, but you can’t fault his facts.
— Please do not allow the OCD-fueled scribblings of Finkelman, et al. to color your perception. This thread is about the stupidity of the comments made by Rep. Akin, and NOT about the pregnancy rate of raped women vs. those that engage in consensual sex.
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:04 amSammy, if I give you a lollypop will you shut up?
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:06 amComment by Michael Ejercito — 8/20/2012 @ 10:48 am
I wonder if that complicates the decision to have an abortion, since the father would be someone the victim knows well, as opposed to a stranger hiding in the bushes.
It probably works both ways, pro and con.
“wromg father” is probably a big reason for many abortions, but not one that Planned Parenthood likes to put on its list of reasons for abortion.
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:07 amMaury! Maury!! Maury!!! ^^^
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:10 amI agree, but his stupidity was more than his mere choice of words (“legitimate rape”). His stupidity also went to the “science” that he discussed, i.e., that women’s bodies shut down when raped in such a way that prevents pregnancies.
Kman (5576bf) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:10 amDustin @10:50–I know your comment was directed at Kman and we’re all getting deep in Sammy’s weeds, but I am unclear exactly what you are saying and I don’t want to assume or put words in your mouth. Do you support Akin’s stated position?
elissa (1bb070) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:10 amGet pregnant and find out for yourself, Sammy.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:10 amnk: One more thing for now:
Todd Akin may have gotten this idea from his mother or his father.
From the New York Times article:
Jamie Tomek, president of the Missouri branch of the National Organization for Women, who lives in the county where Mr. Akin grew up and says she knows his parents, said she was not surprised by the statement and did not think it would cost him much ahead of the election.
The New York Times is such a paper, that if she told the reporter that his mother said such and such, they might not put it in the paper, on grounds of privacy, but if he didn’t say something like that, what’s the relevance of the fact that she knew his parents, and why is she so not surprised?
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:11 amKman–do you approve of partial birth abortion?
elissa (1bb070) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:12 am* if she (Jamie Tomek) didn’t say something like “his father said this”
Sammy Finkelman (2178a8) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:13 amGoddam it Sammy. Two principles:
1. Life is a rare and precious thing.
2. Life should be lived free.
That is not always compatible. Forget the statistics.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:17 amnk, in response to your comment #46 @ 10:05 am, Todd Akin represents Missouri’s 2nd Congressional District which is composed of the suburbs north and west of St. Louis, and contrary to your ugly slur on residents of the Show-me State, rape and incest are no more prevalent there than in the Chicago suburbs.
ropelight (29a1d8) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:20 amCome up with a safe way to remove it and nobody will challenge that, but unfortunately with today’s technology it’s impossible. Being the victim of a crime is not a license to commit an even worse crime against the criminal’s children; that ancient and barbaric law was banned both by the Bible (Deut 24:16, 2 Kings 14:6) and the USA constitution (1:9).
In my opinion if a woman is raped she should get herself cleaned out as soon as the police are done with her, just because she wants to be clean of his residue; that way she will never know whether she might have become pregnant. I don’t see any moral problem with fumigating a room which to the best of your knowledge is empty, and where nobody has any legitimate reason to be, even if a broken window creates a small chance that an intruder might be present. That is very different from deliberately killing someone you know exists.
Milhouse (cdd41b) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:21 amAkin just won the Republican primary, and is significantly ahead of the despicable Claire McCaskill in the polls — and now he hands her a gift talking point on a platter: a “war on women” topic that she has already pounced all over. His comments make him appear patriarchal and stupid.
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:21 amIf Akin had merely had said, “Hey Rick Warren, this question is above my pay grade !” he might have given Chris Matthews a thrill up his leg !
This is exactly the trap the Dems and their propaganda tentacles in the mainstream media are trying to set for the nation; they want voters distracted by abortion, Chick-fil-A, college loans, Romney’s tax records, Romney’s dog, and Ann Romney’s horse, so that we’ll all forgot about the
AlinskyObama Administration’s horrendous failures.Rather than discussing abortion statistics and probabilities, let’s discuss unemployment statistics and gas prices and the probabilities of our debt crisis devolving our nation into Greece.
Elephant Stone (65d289) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:23 amNobody “approves” of it. That’s like “approving” colonoscopies.
I believe that in a free country, the question of when life begins is a personal, and often spiritual/religious, question. And laws should be fashioned in as non-restrictive a way as possible to accommodate each person to act in furtherance of their beliefs. I believe that anyone who wishes to impose their belief on “when life begins” on others cannot legitimately call themselves a “libertarian” or “small-government conservative”.
It follows, then, that I think abortions should be legal (up to a point) for those who choose to have them (where that “point” is, is a subject for another day). Partial birth abortions are merely a METHOD of abortion; therefore, my analysis doesn’t change. They should not be made illegal in my view.
But personally, I don’t approve of them.
Not that this is relevant to anything….
Kman (5576bf) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:25 amRonald Reagan was a very wise man and he said abortion should not be illegal when it was a matter of self-defense on the part of the mother. Danger of death or great bodily harm are pretty easy. Rape, not so easy. Not for me, anyway. I will accept the mother’s decision. Which means I will not accept a law that forbids her that decision.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:43 amI agree, but his stupidity was more than his mere choice of words (“legitimate rape”). His stupidity also went to the “science” that he discussed, i.e., that women’s bodies shut down when raped in such a way that prevents pregnancies.
Comment by Kman — 8/20/2012 @ 11:10 am
— And you are correct, Kman; “stress can impede a woman’s ability to become pregnant” is a generic statement. Common sense suggests that it might be true, but it ignores other factors and, most importantly for this discussion, is being employed by Rep. Akin as a means of diminishing the significance of the issue. His colossal stupidity is that his comments will have the opposite effect.
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:44 amElephant Stone getting his best gulrud on!
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:46 amExcept it is not a crime. The child in this case is invading the rape victim’s womb.
And we all know the ethics of killing invaders.
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:56 amNo, gary and Icy. I think we need a moral core that the Zero does not have. My neighbors are not rich, but they paid $85,000.00, twice, to adopt babies from teen mothers while they were still pregnant. They did not ask questions, not even the sex of the baby. (The girl makes me wish I had a son, the boy makes me want to buy a shotgun ;).
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 12:00 pmMy brother recommends a lupara but in Illinois they are only legal to LEOs. 😉
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 12:03 pmI believe that anyone who wishes to impose their belief on “when life begins” on others cannot legitimately call themselves a “libertarian” or “small-government conservative”
— Yeah well, here’s the problem with that: pro-choice libertarians DO impose their belief of when life begins, the same as every other pro-choicer. The Libertarian Party statement of principles, for example, states: “We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.” The ONLY way that jibes with a pro-choice stance is if the libertarian denies that the unborn are individuals with “the equal right of others”. IOW, they hide behind Roe v Wade and “[it’s] above my pay grade”, the same as any liberal.
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 12:13 pmSure it is. I just apparently wasn’t clear enough. Grand Pronouncements fall within the purview of the commentariat *because* y’all have followed the story (I suspect) while I have not.
See?
Patterico (9574be) — 8/20/2012 @ 12:15 pmNo, gary and Icy. I think we need a moral core that the Zero does not have.
— I’m confused. Did I say something in opposition to this?
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 12:16 pmSorry, Icy, if I misunderstood your comment.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 12:21 pmLet us assume that is true.
Those who participate in invading a piece of land can ethically be killed to resist the invasion.
How much more for those who invade a womb?
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 12:21 pmA woman can certainly kill a would-be rapist, in self-defense. Nobody would challenge that. But the rape is over. There’s nothing to defend herself from now. Once an attacker is no longer a threat you no longer have a right to use force even against them, let alone against an innocent third person.
Milhouse (cdd41b) — 8/20/2012 @ 12:27 pmIcy,
Ha, ha, no, unlike Gulrud, I’ve long been committed to supporting the GOP ticket in order to displace Obama.
I just think we should keep our eye on the prize, and not get distracted from the economy. This Akin statement falls right into the narrative of the “War on Women !” meme that the Alinskyites are pushing.
As much as I’d like to challenge Kman if he believes that I have the right as a small-government voter in a free country to determine if his own life has begun, I’m not going to !
Elephant Stone (65d289) — 8/20/2012 @ 12:29 pmEjercito, I am pro-life, but believe that exceptions in the case of rape should be allowed. Does that help?
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 12:30 pmMeanwhile, Obambi actually deigned to drop by his own press conference for a change, since he had this lovely little bon mot to piss all over….and according to RCP had this to say among other things:
And I’m literally SCREAMING at the TV “So you admit you didn’t know that yet, at age 40-something, when you were campaigning in 2008???? At what point exactly in the last 3 years did it suddenly occur to you that ‘you can’t just make stuff up’?”
From the press….nopes. Not a lit bulb in the room, Tapper included.
rtrski (c69273) — 8/20/2012 @ 12:44 pmHa, ha, no, unlike Gulrud, I’ve long been committed to supporting the GOP ticket in order to displace Obama.
— Yes, well, one would have hoped that the choice of Ryan would encourage our wishy-washy Wisconsinite, gary, to become a bit more enthusiastic for the future. Then again, there are some people that always have to be complaining about something.
I just think we should keep our eye on the prize, and not get distracted from the economy. This Akin statement falls right into the narrative of the “War on Women !” meme that the Alinskyites are pushing.
— And I agree, which is why I feel it is important to do the work of distancing oneself from a colleague (in Ryan’s case, a fellow congressman) that by association is sullying your reputation.
As much as I’d like to challenge Kman if he believes that I have the right as a small-government voter in a free country to determine if his own life has begun, I’m not going to !
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 12:44 pm— Kman’s life will NEVER begin until he ceases to cyberstalk Aaron Walker.
Rape and abortion are not positions that politicians should be allowed to equivocate about.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 12:49 pmicy #103 – so what you are saying is that, while some people have an alter-ego, poor Aaron Walker has an alter-idiot named kman ?
Alasdair (81fcf1) — 8/20/2012 @ 12:51 pmAkin was on Hannity’s radio show, and said that he is NOT dropping out.
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92) — 8/20/2012 @ 12:52 pm106-…add…
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:01 pmOf course, a lot can change between now and 1800CT Tuesday when the MO-GOP faces a deadline for certifying the ticket (or something).
icy #57 – it’s a frickin’ epidemic – Phyllis Diller died this morning !
Alasdair (81fcf1) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:01 pmDeath travels in three’s!
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:04 pmShe’s still a lefty Pious. A hot lefty, but a lefty all the same.
NJRob (fe68e7) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:04 pmClaire was toast until this imbecile opened his stupid mouth. Will they ever learn?
mike (7b4374) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:04 pmI can’t even comprehend Akin’s statement. It’s something like Whoopi’s “rape-rape” comment except I could understand her stupidity.
I see that the children of rapists and rape victims are not protected under RINO and Vice RINO’s definition of personhood. I’m not surprised by a leftist like Romney but Ryan surprises me a little.
CrustyB (69f730) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:05 pmMaybe that’s why some women are into rape fantasies — natural birth control.
Random channeling Todd Akin (edf1d2) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:06 pmFor pols, it seems the only learning experience is unemployment.
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:06 pmThat’s disgusting feet and you don’t get pro-lifers at all. It has nothing to do with the rapist. They should be hung. It has to do with the innocent unborn child growing in her womb. For you to claim otherwise is disgusting.
NJRob (fe68e7) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:08 pmSpeaking of which, if only we here in L.A. could be done with Henry Waxman, and Howard Berman.
You’ve heard of Waxman, haven’t you, the CA Congressman from Bethesda MD?
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:08 pmicy #103 – so what you are saying is that, while some people have an alter-ego, poor Aaron Walker has an alter-idiot named kman ?
Comment by Alasdair — 8/20/2012 @ 12:51 pm
— Kman is more of an “altered states” ego.
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:11 pmThank you
NJRob (fe68e7) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:13 pmR.I.P. Phyllis Diller
[Alasdair beat me to it; just making it bold, like the lady herself]
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:14 pmInsty reports that Akin will withdraw….
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:17 pmhttp://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/08/akin-advisers-ready-for-candidate-to-withdraw-from-race-tuesday/
I see that the children of rapists and rape victims are not protected under RINO and Vice RINO’s definition of personhood. I’m not surprised by a leftist like Romney but Ryan surprises me a little.
Comment by CrustyB — 8/20/2012 @ 1:05 pm
— Okay, I’ll bite: WHAT is this silly statement supposed to mean?
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:18 pmShe was a class act, Icy.
Random (edf1d2) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:19 pmIcy, if it emanates from the O-camp, it can mean anything they wish it to, at any time they wish to re-define it, no matter how moronic that definition may be.
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:20 pmAfter all, Axelrod and Cutter are certified “rocket scientists”.
You see here a key difference btw right and left. When an R says something outrageous, the right quickly and nearly unanimously condemns it. When a D says something stupid, the left closes ranks and defends it to the max.
Biden could have said the exact same thing Akin did, and easily get away with it.
gp (5a38d9) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:21 pmActually, speaking of people who died, I just found out Steven Covey passed away in July. His method of prioritising tasks, really Eisenhower’s method that Covey popularised (also the one used by Randy Pausch of The Last Lecture), fame, was on my mind last night and I just learned of Covey’s passing.
What can I say? You don’t get to live forever, but all of the named people above seemed to have done more good than harm. There’s something to be said for making the effort.
Random (edf1d2) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:21 pmLooks like Akin is toast
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:21 pm==– Okay, I’ll bite: WHAT is this silly statement supposed to mean==
Icy, I think it was pretty clear actually. Crusty is unhappy that Romney-Ryan slapped down Akin. He thinks they did it because they are not conservative enough.
elissa (1bb070) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:29 pmRomney/Ryan “are not conservative enough” because they condemned this idiot’s idiocy?
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:35 pmPlease withdraw.
AZ Bob (7d2a2c) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:35 pmYou’ll have to ask Crusty and get it from the horse’s mouth to be sure, Icy. But with the “personhood” dig and then when he referred to Romney as a “leftist” and the team as Rino and Vice-Rino that was certainly the conclusion I drew from Crusty’s post.
elissa (1bb070) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:46 pmIt’s that “definition of personhood” part that threw me, elissa. Made me wonder if Crusty was referring to some sort of policy statement that was issued prior to this incident.
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:51 pmI can’t download that study, but it looks incredible to me.
34 women became pregnant as a result of rape.
This was 5% of women in the study who were raped; 34 is 5% of 680.
The study covered 4,008 women for three years. So – the rape victimization rate among these women was 227/4,008 per year: 5.7%!
FBI stats say that there were 80,000-90,000 forcible rapes per year from 1990 to 2007, a rate of 60 to 70 per 100,000 women: 0.06-7%.
That’s a two-orders-of magnitude difference, so something is wrong there.
The claim of 5% pregnancy rate seems dubious too. In 2007 the combined birth and abortion rate for adult women was (69.5 + 19.5) = 89 / 1000, which is 8.9%. But most of those women were having sex all year long. 5% from a single encounter doesn’t seem reasonable.
Finally, the claim that 32.2% of the victims chose to bear and raise the child. I would applaud any such heroism, but I can’t believe it’s that common in this day and age.
What it looks like to me is that the vast majority of these rapes were statutory rapes by neighbors or family step-members or “boyfriends”, or coerced sex by a “boyfriend”, in the course of extended sexual relationships, not one-time forcible rapes.
Another commenter has noted that the subjects of the study were mostly Medicaid patients; thus, nothing like a representative sample.
All of which means this study is irrelevant to Akins’ comment.
What this story proves is that a Republican candidate must avoid spontaneous or casual statements on any controversial issue, unless he is really well-prepared and disciplined. The press is eager to crucify Republicans, and any slip of the tongue will do. Look what happened to George Allen.
This is why Allen West is not ready for higher office.
Rich Rostrom (5f4863) — 8/20/2012 @ 1:56 pmWhat George Allen said was a “slip of the tongue” the same way that a cheating wife “slips” and falls on the penis of a man that is not her husband.
Icy (9788b4) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:05 pmAkin can withdraw without a court filing if he submits his paperwork by 5pm tomorrow. Former Senator Kit Bond is being touted as a possible replacement, but Bond has yet to make a statement one way or another.
ropelight (29a1d8) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:15 pmRyan sponsored “The Sanctity of Human Life Act” which would have banned in vitro fertilization.
Romney has twin grandsons thanks to IVF.
Those who oppose abortion with no exceptions have been known to make that argument
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/akin-not-the-first-a-short-history-of-the-false-no-pregnancy-from-rape-theory.php?ref=fpa
The Family Research Council still supports him.
Ryan and Akin co-sponsored a bill redefining rape
What’s “Forcible Rape”
Is there any other kind?
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/19/712251/how-todd-akin-and-paul-ryan-partnered-to-redefine-rape/
still sleeeeepy (b5f718) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:24 pmHere is part of Akin’s clarification and correction. The view is no mystery for a pro-life candidate.
“As a member of Congress, I believe that working to protect the most vulnerable in our society is one of my most important responsibilities, and that includes protecting both the unborn and victims of sexual assault. In reviewing my off-the-cuff remarks, it’s clear that I misspoke in this interview and it does not reflect the deep empathy I hold for the thousands of women who are raped and abused every year. Those who perpetrate these crimes are the lowest of the low in our society and their victims will have no stronger advocate in the Senate to help ensure they have the justice they deserve.”
“I recognize that abortion, and particularly in the case of rape, is a very emotionally charged issue. But I believe deeply in the protection of all life and I do not believe that harming another innocent victim is the right course of action. I also recognize that there are those who, like my opponent, support abortion and I understand I may not have their support in this election.”
What is a mystery is the overreaction of the right and the hypocrisy of the left on the subject, which freaks out over possible cuts in federal funding to abortion mill Planned Parenthood which does not even follow reporting requirements on rape. Go figure.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:25 pmWhat gives women a better right than men to an opinion on this or any other issue?
Milhouse (cdd41b) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:26 pm“Ryan sponsored “The Sanctity of Human Life Act” which would have banned in vitro fertilization.”
still sleeeeepy – Try again. The act had no power over states.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:30 pm“federal funding to abortion mill Planned Parenthood ”
Planned Parenthood is enjoined from spending any federal money on abortion services and abortions make up 3% of everything they do.
Jon Kyle lied on the Senate floor and after he was caught his office came out with a statement: “[h]is remark was not intended to be a factual statement”
still sleeeeepy (b5f718) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:32 pmStill,
Small “p” planned parenthood is, “we don’t want no more n****rs”, ssssleepy.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:36 pmI guess you’ve never heard of “Statutory rape”
Chuck Bartowski (3bccbd) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:36 pmThe fundamental problem is the earlier statement, didn’t stand for the sanctity of life, in fact I’m not sure what he was standing for, or why he made ir?
narciso (ee31f1) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:37 pmOr is that large “P”? Whatever Margaret Sanger wanted, I guess.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:38 pmForcible is lack of consent or capacity to grant consent which includes age, disability, intoxication, unconsciousness, and use of force or threat of force.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:43 pm“Try again. The act had no power over states.”
Thank you. That’s true. It allowed the states to regulate, and stripped the Supreme Court of the power of review.
It would be up to Utah to ban IVF.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/11/paul-ryan-s-extreme-abortion-views.html
“This disregard for the exigencies of women’s lives—the dismissal of their choices as amoral exercises of “arbitrary will”—was thrown into high relief during his 1998 run for congress against Democrat Lydia Spottswood. Both candidates backed a ban on so-called partial-birth abortion, but Spottswood believed there should be exceptions in cases where a woman’s life or health is endangered. “Ryan said he opposes abortion, period,” reported the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. “He said any exceptions to a ‘partial-birth’ abortion ban would make that ban meaningless.”
During that campaign, Ryan also expressed his willingness to let states criminally prosecute women who have abortions. According to another Journal Sentinel article, he “would let states decide what criminal penalties would be attached to abortions. Ryan said he has never specifically advocated jailing women who have abortions or doctors who perform them, but added, ‘If it’s illegal, it’s illegal.’”
What a nice guy. But at least he was open to the prosecution of women who had abortions. That’s one for honesty.
still sleeeeepy (b5f718) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:47 pmnk,
“Forcible is lack of consent or capacity to grant consent which includes age, disability, intoxication, unconsciousness, and use of force or threat of force.”
So what’s “unforcible rape”?
The phrase “forcible” is not in current law.
“Statutory” rape is the term. Why change it?
It was an attempt to undermine the incest exemption to legal abortion. In the end they went back to Hyde
still sleeeeepy (b5f718) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:55 pmhttp://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/law-professor-right-to-lifer-all-wrong-on-house-abortion-bill.php
There is no danger to a woman’s life or health that would be alleviated by a partial birth abortion. They are just as dangerous as a full birth. Or even more dangerous because they are performed by child-killers in sub-standard medical conditions, instead of a real delivery room fully staffed with doctors and nurses.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:57 pmHyde followed old law. New law now.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 2:59 pmWhat is a mystery is the overreaction of the right and the hypocrisy of the left on the subject, which freaks out over possible cuts in federal funding to abortion mill Planned Parenthood which does not even follow reporting requirements on rape. Go figure.
I agree with you to a point, daleyrocks, but for the life of me I wonder how any Republican/pro-life candidate does not anticipate this question and have a well-rehearsed reply ready which spells out exactly the pro-life case against abortion even in cases of rape or incest. Akin isn’t the first candidate who has blundered into this type of misstatement.
JVW (edec8d) — 8/20/2012 @ 3:06 pmStill sleeping just vomited a pile of leftist lies. SHOCKA
JD (ed00b1) — 8/20/2012 @ 3:11 pmEh, first this guy has been saying these things for years thats why they keep interviewing him.
2nd, its missouri – good luck trying to tell them to not vote for someone based upon killing babies.
3rd Claire is the Sheila J-Lee of the senate – she says stupid stuff everyday = I still cant believe she beat Jim Talent
EPWJ (2a58f7) — 8/20/2012 @ 3:38 pmI was referring to that language in that part of the bill. They went back to the language of Hyde.
“There is no danger to a woman’s life or health that would be alleviated by a partial birth abortion.”
That’s a flat out lie.
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2009/07/01/how-a-lateterm-abortion-saved-my-life
There was also testimony before congress
http://womensenews.org/story/campaign-trail/041028/late-term-abortion-saved-these-womens-lives
still sleeeeepy (b5f718) — 8/20/2012 @ 3:40 pmBite me.
http://krites.blogspot.com/2007/02/yuck-fourselves-second-trimester.html
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 3:44 pmBetter link? Let’s see.
https://www.google.com/search?q=amilia+sonja+taylor&hl=en&rls=ig&prmd=imvnso&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=wb4yUPyvD5Tg8wTLrYGICQ&ved=0CE4QsAQ&biw=1093&bih=476
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 3:50 pmThis is why we can’t have nice things. Like I said earlier, it’s the zealots on both ends of the spectrum who make it impossible to have a reasoned and somewhat intelligent debate about this.
elissa (a7e26c) — 8/20/2012 @ 3:53 pmSo, is Akin in or out?
Pious Agnostic (ee2c24) — 8/20/2012 @ 3:55 pmThere is no middle ground on abortion. I cannot reason infanticide — only sympathize, understand and forgive.
Would I put myself in front of a bullet for my daughter? Yes. Well, then?
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 3:57 pmShameless aren’t they;
http://twitchy.com/2012/08/20/lying-liar-stephanie-cutter-paul-ryan-tried-to-redefine-rape/
narciso (ee31f1) — 8/20/2012 @ 4:15 pm87, 92. Look, Akin jumped in with two feet and non-standard terminology, as well as not having run his thinking by anyone outside his echo chamber.
So much for running campaigns sans earpieces and shock collars.
He is going to withdraw within hours, nuff said about the insigator.
Romney’s position on Romneycare vis a vis Pelosicare is the former employs constitutional mandates. IOW, States rights, which is precisely where abortion falls.
His weetarded consultants should not see the morning. Pillow applied with pressure, long knives, shot behind the ear, tragic vehicular homicide, they should be gone.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 8/20/2012 @ 4:24 pmI been busy all day and this jackhole is still in the race?
for reals?
Must be he’s as un-self-aware as he is stupid.
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 8/20/2012 @ 4:27 pmYeah get him out of there.
SarahW (b0e533) — 8/20/2012 @ 4:43 pmhe’s so embarrassing
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 8/20/2012 @ 4:48 pm@ Kman,
Stress can affect a woman’s natural cycle, but that is irrelevant to what Akin was saying. Once a woman has ovulated, then stress — even the stress of a rape — doesn’t prevent the rapist’s sperm from fertilizing the egg.
Kman, that is not quite what Mike K (MD) has said in his comment up at #36. Perhaps you missed it.
There is evidence that stress may reduce the probability of pregnancy; like the stress of forcible rape.
Dana (292dcf) — 8/20/2012 @ 4:56 pm“Stress”. It may even be “uncomfortable”. Doctors.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:03 pmWTF do these guys do before they do an interview? Goodbye Missouri, Hello Obama/Mccaskill.
kansas (ad6b2e) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:04 pmSo, what does Mark Clayton, the Democrat candidate for Senate in Tennessee, think about all this? He’s said far stupid things on similar subjects, yet somehow the press doesn’t hear them so clearly.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:05 pmThe only reason to go to a doctor is because they have managed to obtain a monopoly on drugs.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:06 pmHappy
In the end this guy was trying to save the lives of babies
heeee went about as wrong the waaay as you can possibly go, but its clear he didnt mean any disrespect to rape victims.
So maybe I’ll hope he will stay in and exp;ain that he has a waters edge on killing children
EPWJ (2a58f7) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:06 pmWow, nobody who voted for Akin in the primaries knew his positions or so the current narrative goes.
He should get out of the race for a stupid utterance which he has since clarified.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:07 pmDana – Kmart didn’t miss it. He prefers to argue against positions he wishes people had taken.
JD (577daf) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:08 pmWTF do these guys do before they do an interview? Goodbye Missouri, Hello Obama/Mccaskill.
Comment by kansas — 8/20/2012 @ 5:04 pm
Money-raising, campaign breakfasts. The last time I looked Senators, and I mean sitting ones, had to raise $11,000.00 a day for re-election.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:09 pmThis is especially true in light of the fact that we require men to kill other people to defend someone else’s land.
Why should not women be able to kill to defend their own bodies?
Women should be able to kill to defend their bodies, *but* in what other crime is the killing of an innocent victim – and not the guilty party – permitted and sanctioned? This is not an easy question and deserves far more than a glib comeback.
Dana (292dcf) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:09 pmI don’t think that’s clear. I grant he was trying to save the lives of babies. But he was not trying in a way that is likely to be particularly effective. Victories are one at the margins, with the structure of state and federal power as it exists.
The problem was the stupidity and willful blindness. It betrays a poor ability to think logically. “Ideological thinking” isn’t really thinking as I use the term.
Random (edf1d2) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:10 pm*won
Random (edf1d2) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:10 pmEpwj – you claim he has a history of saying crazy things. Please enlighten us.
JD (577daf) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:12 pmThat third person is still in the womb, subject to be forced out by lethal force from the defenders of the womb.
He is being disowned by the Democrats.
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:12 pmhe’s not “saving babies” Mr. EPWJ what he’s doing is he’s directly contributing to the likelihood that millions of American babies – rape babies and otherwise – will be doomed to grow up in a nasty obama-raped socialist cesspool of fail
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:13 pmBut before I forget, this guy was picked by 36% of the Republican vote (two others got 30% each), after Claire McCaskill dumped millions into the Republican primary, smearing the other two candidates with last minute attack ads.
Note also that the Tea Party supported Brunner, and Palin supported Steelman. This guy was supported by the paleo-right. I’m sure the no-abortion-for-rape was a feature to them. But anyway, 64% of Republicans wanted someone else.
Here’s hoping the get their wish.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:13 pm“its clear he didnt mean any disrespect to rape victims”. Well some are raped raped and some are illegitimately raped…and pregnancy is a sign some part of her consented.
That’s insulting enough. And he meant, and you know he meant, that there would be too few “real” victims to justify a loophole that fat fakers would use.
OH STOP IT. Just cut it out. There is no defense of this man.
SarahW (b0e533) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:17 pmOnce an attacker is no longer a threat you no longer have a right to use force even against them, let alone against an innocent third person.
What law school did you learn that at? You have a right and a duty to pursue and kill a violent attacker to prevent him from doing that to another person. And you have a right to kill the accomplice he left behind to continue his attack, in your defense.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:20 pmrape mode activated!
commencing expulsion of rapist fluid in t minus 30 seconds and counting
houston we are go!
i’m gonna wash that rape right outta my hair I’m gonna wash that rape right outta my hair
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:20 pmThat is true.
Of course, the unborn of Hiroshima were not accomplices to Pearl Harbor in any sense.
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:23 pmJD
Crazy things was perhaps a overload – he’s more of a fundamentalist and has never mae a secret of it and his opposition to abortion has been front and center.
I have no beef with him and remember any republican that opposes democrats are crazy
EPWJ (2a58f7) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:23 pmI agree. The stakes in this election are simply way to high for anyone to misstep like this. He should have been savvy enough to realize a trap when it was sprung. Instead, he had to opine (a politician’s ego is his own worst enemy). So, yes, he has to go and there really is nothing to say to defend him.
*HOWEVER*,
it is only because the left controls so much of the media and the public opinion that Akin is out while Joe “They’re gonna put y’all back in chains” Biden is still in. It’s good to keep this in mind.
Like idiots.
Dana (292dcf) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:25 pmhappy
I cant kill kids, I’m not going to vote for the religion of death.
Of course now romney and Ryan are walking back their oppposition to abortion which is where this whole thing seemed to be orchestrated to.
Anything to keep from having to talk about the economy
EPWJ (2a58f7) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:28 pmIs there any proof of this?
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:30 pmRomney/Ryan has a simple statement to make. “Akins is an idiot and we’re not”.
BTW, how did the Zero vote on the Illinois Born Alive Act?
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:31 pmNo, he said something thoroughly indefensible, and the fact that he’s going on Piers Morgan, indicates
narciso (ee31f1) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:35 pmhe has no sense no how,
“But before I forget, this guy was picked by 36% of the Republican vote (two others got 30% each”
Kevin M. – Akin won the primary. What is your point?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:38 pmLong ago, in the early 1960s, the legalization of abortion was one of the high school national debate topics. There was a study that claimed to show it was very rare for a rape victim to give birth. It was frequently used to show that rape victims did not become pregnant; if the opposition cited it for either claim, we’d smack them down with other studies showing the opposite. Actual citations, sorry, far too long ago for my memory.
You can usually find one study to support almost any idea; that’s the clue. If there is only one study (or several studies from the same source), it’s almost always wrong, and you need to look deeper.
Accidentally spoke what he thought was the Truth and that’s very dangerous for a politician.
htom (412a17) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:40 pmHe voted against it, because if doctors were required to treat babies who were accidentally born in a botched abortion, that would defeat the purpose of an abortion. Thus, he stands in opposition to “extremists” like Jerrold Nadler.
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:42 pmIn what way is the child an invader? At most it’s a trespasser, and an unwitting one at that; in what ethical system exactly is it OK to shoot trespassers?
Milhouse (cdd41b) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:44 pmWe can deal with abortion, we don’t need morons like Akin in power.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:48 pmThe Afghans killed a bunch of Soviet trespassers in the 1980’s.
We killed a bunch of unborn babies in Hiroshima (along with thousands of other people) in retaliation for someone firing ammo into our property. Others have made this comparison.
The only people who have credibility claiming that abortion in response to rape is evil are the Code Pink and LewRockwell.Com types.
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:48 pmI appreciate your asking.
Personally, I do not think abortion should be legal except out of medical urgency.
I think there are both cases where rape victims have been glad they aborted their child and cases where they wish that hadn’t.
I am open to the idea that traumatic events can diminish immediate fertility, but this is not a good basis for policy, in my opinion.
Let me know if you were asking about something else.
Dustin (73fead) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:49 pmin what ethical system exactly is it OK to shoot trespassers?
In the common law system. You can remove a trespasser, with violence, lawfully if you ask him to leave and he does not.
And these nonsensical “legal” arguments do not help. Leave talking law while not understanding it to Radley Balko.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:53 pmHow does Radley Balko not understand law?
the X case in Ireland is a close approximation of the former. I am not surprised if the latter is true; there are combat veterans who wish they never killed, even though their acts were ethically justified.
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:56 pmKevin
ropelight (29a1d8) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:57 pmPolicy?
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 5:59 pmSo I guess he’s staying in the race. I don’t imagine there’s a more-than-metaphorical bus a-comin’ down a nearby street he can wander in front of, is there?
Pious Agnostic (ee2c24) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:00 pmAbortion in rape has been compared to the Castle Doctrine.
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:01 pmMy comment at #198 was inadvertently truncated. I intended to reference Kevin M (#178 @5:13pm).
His point is compelling. Todd Akin’s candidacy was advanced by Clair McCaskill to the disadvantage of the other GOP hopefuls.
She could only win reelection running against a weak opponent so she spend her own campaign cash to smear Akin’s GOP opponents.
Akin’s departure may result in a much stronger GOP challenge to McCaskill.
ropelight (29a1d8) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:06 pm==So I guess he’s staying in the race. ==
As Scarlett O’Hara always said, “tomorrow is another day.” Earlier I thought he’d prolly hang tough. I no longer do. The pressure is too great. I think now he’s just sitting tight, doing what he can to salvage his pride, until a replacement is selected and a clean announcement can be made.
elissa (a7e26c) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:14 pmOn what grounds? The third person is not an aggressor. All aggression has ceased. Do you think illegal immigrants may be shot on sight?!
Milhouse (cdd41b) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:15 pmThat is bulldust. Even in Texas you would be convicted of cold-blooded murder.
A baby is not an accomplice in anything.
Milhouse (cdd41b) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:22 pmIf you’re responding to me, what I’m saying is that if you do or don’t think there should be a rape exception to an abortion ban, your basis should be based on something other than conjecture about fertility rates under extreme duress. That entire avenue seems weak to me. Just my $.02
Dustin (73fead) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:23 pmYet another day when the MSM and “undecided” voters weren’t discussing the failed Obama economy.
Awesome !
Elephant Stone (65d289) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:24 pmES–“You can’t always get what you want.”
elissa (a7e26c) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:28 pm-Mick Jagger-
Yup. They are just getting started, too.
Ultimately, Akin made a stupid comment. Politicians do this every day. This is when media bias is at its most powerful. They can decide to saturate coverage and they can decide to ignore a story.
I wouldn’t be surprised if some venues covered this comment more than they’ve covered Brian Terry.
Dustin (73fead) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:29 pmWrong. They killed invaders. In a legitimate war.
Wrong again. We were at war with the Japanese nation, and had the right to use whatever force it took to win that war. War is not fought between individuals but between nations. The ethics of war work on the national level, not on the individual level. That is the fallacy of pacifism.
And others are moral cretins.
Milhouse (cdd41b) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:32 pmExactly. It should be legal where it would be legal to kill an adult in similar circumstances. In other words, where that person is threatening your life, and it’s you or her.
That is surely true, but I don’t see how it’s relevant. There are murderers who are happy they committed their crime, but that doesn’t make them any less guilty. And there are people who have killed in legitimate self-defense, and spend the rest of their lives wracked with guilt; that doesn’t make them any less justified.
Milhouse (cdd41b) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:35 pmAgain I call bullshit. You can use reasonable force to remove a trespasser. There is no jurisdiction in the world in which lethal force may be used.
Milhouse (cdd41b) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:36 pmThere is no analogy. The castle doctrine means that in your home you have no duty to retreat from someone trying to kill you or cause you grievous bodily harm. You may kill them if you have no other way of saving yourself except being driven out of your home. The key criterion is not that the person is an intruder but that he threatens you. That does not apply here.
Milhouse (cdd41b) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:40 pmSo what is that person doing in the womb? How did it get there?
Some of those “invaders” simply got onto a helicopter or airplane and ended up in Afghanistan, having no control on where the pilot chose to land the craft. They did not pick their destination, just as the unborn babies of rape victims did not pick their destinations.
and yet, we ended up killing a bunch of people and their unborn babies who were not even trespassing anywhere.
Had someone in the Enola Gay refused to drop the bomb because it would kill unborn babies, they would have ended up spending twenty years in Leavenworth. Why then, should it be wrong to kill someone invading your own body? Are we not sovereigns over our bodies, as the United States is sovereign over its land?
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:43 pmDon’t be stupid. It came into existence there. That is its natural place; it has no other place to be.
How is that relevant? They were invaders. The baby is not. And if any of those Soviets brought their wives and children with them, it would not be legitimate to deliberately target them.
I’ve already addressed that: we were at war with the nation that they were a part of. You continue to ignore the fact that War Is Different. The rules of war are not the same as the rules of ordinary conduct.
But here’s another point: those people were collateral damage. The baby is not; it is the target of the abortion.
Milhouse (cdd41b) — 8/20/2012 @ 6:52 pmI think this is very, very different from a rape victim aborting her child. I resent the framing of this child as though it’s just a burden lacking in rights, and I was responding to Kman’s formulation where he insisted that having the baby must prolong the rape victim’s suffering.
I think it goes both ways, but he refuses to see it that way. My take, where a rape victim who aborts her child is haunted by this for many years, didn’t pass Kman’s laugh test.
I also do not understand Kman’s ‘prolong’ comment. I don’t think the suffering from a rape is limited to physical conditions, and I am very skeptical that any rape victim’s suffering is so short that the term of a pregnancy comes close to prolonging it.
Dustin (73fead) — 8/20/2012 @ 7:30 pmThe baby is the actual intruder.
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/20/2012 @ 7:34 pmKevin M. – Akin won the primary. What is your point?
My point is here: McCaskill gets her opponent — he won largely because McCaskill kept calling him conservative, on purpose. She obviously knew how incredibly stupid he was, and engineered his late rise.
This is a man who should go talk to God about ego, because that’s all he’s running on. Stupid is as stupid does.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:04 pmstill sleeeeepy, the f***ing liar, f***ing lied:
Ryan sponsored “The Sanctity of Human Life Act” which would have banned in vitro fertilization.
— Lie #1: Ryan did not sponsor the bill; he was one of the many co-sponsors. Lie #2: The bill would NOT have “banned” in-vitro fertilization at all.
During that campaign, Ryan also expressed his willingness to let states criminally prosecute women who have abortions.
— Either link to an actual interview, where he actually said this, or make a retraction, you f***ing liar.
Planned Parenthood is enjoined from spending any federal money on abortion services and abortions make up 3% of everything they do.
Icy (8445db) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:07 pm— With 1.2 million abortions being performed every year in the U.S. the good folks at PP are doing plenty, I’m sure.
Also, considering there are probably no votes left on the Supreme Court to undo Roe, this is a moot issue, and a loser moot issue a pretty stupid thing to have.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:08 pmAnd there is no right to harm an intruder except in self-defense.
This is from Wikipedia, so not the most reliable source in the world, but I don’t believe you will find a contrary statement in any reliable source:
Milhouse (15b6fd) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:17 pmYes, Kevin. As important as this issue is, morally, it is not a live political issue. It is a distraction, just as Elephant Stone said.
I think we’ll see a ridiculous effort to make this about Romney and Ryan. It will open the door to the same sort of gotcha question that snagged Akin.
Hopefully Ryan and Romney are prepared. I bet it comes up in more than one debate. Will Fast and Furious?
Dustin (73fead) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:20 pmYa know, for a minute there I was afraid that someone was going to come around and attempt to jack this thread with an utterly facetious comparison between abortion and the taking of life during wartime.
I am happy to report that my fears were unfounded.
Icy (8445db) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:23 pmAlways believe what you read in Wikipedia, Milhouse.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:24 pmWell, if you’re so pro life, why are you willing to support baby killin’ in all them wars!??!?
Dustin (73fead) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:25 pmIt’s the absolute truth, your eternal salvation.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:27 pmYa know, for a minute there I was afraid that someone was going to come around and attempt to jack this thread with an utterly facetious comparison between abortion and the taking of life during wartime.
I am happy to report that my fears were unfounded.
Comment by Icy — 8/20/2012 @ 8:23 pm
Fear is a horrible thing. Never be afraid.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:31 pmWhile I certainly understand the point being made here and fully agree with it, there is some irony, too. Under the surface issue of Akin being an idiot and this gaffe being used as a major distraction by the left to avoid the economy, the heart of the issue is certainly far more significant than a mere “distraction”. Or at least it should be.
Dana (292dcf) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:40 pmI stand corrected. It’s never the wrong time to shine a spotlight on this issue, Dana. Even if it cynically helps democrats avoid further discussion of our economy, we should be willing to pay that price to have an honest discussion of abortion.
Dustin (73fead) — 8/20/2012 @ 8:50 pm“My point is here: McCaskill gets her opponent — he won largely because McCaskill kept calling him conservative, on purpose.”
Kevin M. – Democrats love to say they got the opponent they wanted. All three Republicans running were outpolling Claire. IMHO her statements mean sh*t, especially when immortalized by Politico.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:05 pm#47 –
NK – Adding to your comment, with the medical technology and health care today, there is little if any risk to the mother by carrying a child to term. So the argument “to protect a women’s health” is basically moot.
The decision to abort a child and the decision to abort a child created by rape is a very difficult decision – I will only add that both children are humans.
joe (93323e) — 8/20/2012 @ 9:53 pmIcy,
Ha, ha, I was going to ask the sage of Chicago if he thinks it’s ok to kill an enemy soldier if it can be proven that enemy soldier is endangering the lives of women.
Elephant Stone (65d289) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:06 pmA rape child is still a child, and I have no delusions how our fathers treated our mothers, but for me … it’s the mother’s choice. So we both rot in Hell.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:15 pmI already posted that on the SEAl thread, a____. Comment 607. Go there, punk-a__s mall ninjas.
nk (875f57) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:19 pmE.S. I was referring to Ejercito, not nk.
Icy (8445db) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:29 pmR.I.P. Ron “Arnold Horshack” Palillo
Icy (8445db) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:45 pmKevin M. – Democrats love to say they got the opponent they wanted. All three Republicans running were outpolling Claire. IMHO her statements mean sh*t, especially when immortalized by Politico.
Well, yes, but when they say so beforehand, and run ads to further the effort, and gloat afterwards (and then again 2 weeks afterwards), maybe this time it’s real.
Sorry you got caught backing a loser, but this guy is going to spend his entire campaign running “I am not a witch” ads.
He effed up big time. If he doesn’t have the wit to get out he hasn’t the wit to be a senator anyway.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 8/20/2012 @ 10:53 pm“Sorry you got caught backing a loser, but this guy is going to spend his entire campaign running “I am not a witch” ads.”
Kevin M. – Sorry, I’m not backing anybody. I’m just not falling for the Obamamedia spin the way you are.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/20/2012 @ 11:18 pmtileidpr
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circuit au vietnam (ba4c44) — 8/21/2012 @ 2:14 amHurrah where hurrah’s due. Safe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qip0xbjr0aA
nk (875f57) — 8/21/2012 @ 4:11 amnk,
Wow, your profanity realllly punctuates your arguments.
(roll of the eyes)
Elephant Stone (65d289) — 8/21/2012 @ 6:29 amMitt forced a women to give away child after Mormon soft rape ! Mitt is a lifetime Mormon cult servant, Sunday teacher , priest. This RAPE language also contained in a abortion bill Ryan co-sponsored last year.
Mitt can never separate religion form politics. religions was business life for Mitt. President Mitt the priest is middle east age like…just many more crusades…
Mitt doesn”t fit.
weq (85b0e1) — 8/21/2012 @ 7:40 amYou are kind of an idiot, and a liar, weq
JD (746d0b) — 8/21/2012 @ 7:52 amweq,
After reading your incoherent anti-Mormon drivel, I’m almost compelled to support bonds for more public education spending.
Alas, I know the money would go to fund more $125k a year “administrators” rather than to pay for the “Dick and Jane” primary reading books that could make a real difference in your life.
Elephant Stone (65d289) — 8/21/2012 @ 8:18 amKevin M. – Sorry, I’m not backing anybody. I’m just not falling for the Obamamedia spin the way you are.
No, I just wish to be rid of Obama’s useful idiot. The only way Obama can win is make this election about social issues. Akin seems to think those issues paramount. Hence the Dem’s support.
Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 8/21/2012 @ 8:32 amif you want someone who’ll enthusiastically seek to use the power of the state to force your freshly-raped daughter to give birth to a kid what will call her rapist daddy then by all means vote for this deranged freakshow
small government!
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/21/2012 @ 8:40 amIsn’t weq just being a poor version of a sockpuppet? His statement was completely incoherent and I figured he was making fun of the left for their nonsensical statements. If not, he’s a fool.
NJRob (fe68e7) — 8/21/2012 @ 9:19 amHappyfeet,
screw you. Innocent life deserves to be protected, period. That you don’t get that shows what kind of dark soul you truly have. Grow up.
NJRob (fe68e7) — 8/21/2012 @ 9:20 amNothing innocent about being an intruder.
Michael Ejercito (2e0217) — 8/21/2012 @ 9:21 amrapists do not have the right to spread their seed far and wee by force Mr. Rob
nope they don’t
if you don’t want to carry a rapist’s baby then that’s your call, not the call of the deeply immoral and cowardly United States government, no matter how many flaky white trash senators are on board with the womb gestapo
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/21/2012 @ 9:25 am#250
That “argument” is complete baloney.
Just to address one point:
If person A robs person B, can person B rectify the situation by robbing person C just because person C has a blood relationship to person A?
That’s one of the principles Happyfeet is arguing for.
The baby (that might result from a rape) hasn’t done anything wrong. It shouldn’t be harmed, no matter what one of the baby’s kinfolk did…if the baby is a human being with a God-given right to life (like it says in the founding charter of this nation).
If an unborn baby isn’t a human being than abortion is no big deal.
The ONLY issue that matters here is whether or not an unborn child is a human being (entitled to rights, including the right to life).
All other arguments in regard to legalized abortion are irrelevant.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 8/21/2012 @ 11:21 am“if you don’t want to carry a rapist’s baby then that’s your call”
Mr. Feets – What if somebody promised to love and cherish the rape baby by proposing gay marriage to it?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2012 @ 11:45 am#251, that.
Rodney King's Spirit (aeda60) — 8/21/2012 @ 11:55 amRape & Incest:
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92) — 8/21/2012 @ 12:23 pmIt’s the potential mother’s call, and no-one else’s.
“weq” has driven by before.
Icy (8445db) — 8/21/2012 @ 12:46 pmDid that Columbia University conservative hating Professor’s daughter he was playing hide the salami with get knocked up?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2012 @ 12:55 pmDave Surls,
you hit the nail on the head. Thank you for your eloquent and succinct post.
NJRob (fe68e7) — 8/21/2012 @ 1:39 pmWell said.
Dustin (73fead) — 8/21/2012 @ 1:44 pmI should be in charge cause I have very good judgement and mostly I would just let people make whatever choices made them feel better especially being as how they’d just been through quite an ordeal
happyfeet (0845e7) — 8/21/2012 @ 2:13 pm“See?”
– Patterico
Ah. Gotcha.
Leviticus (102f62) — 8/21/2012 @ 2:30 pm“…I should be in charge cause I have very good judgement…”
Isn’t that what the Progressives keep telling us?
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92) — 8/21/2012 @ 2:39 pmMy vote for the least evolved comment of 2012:
“The baby is the intruder”.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 8/21/2012 @ 2:45 pmIn this climate of unbridgable differences and irreconcilable mores the words of a great man:
“Your job isn’t to die for your country, it’s to make the other dumb bastard die for his.”
I really couldn’t care less what the next guy wants to make of my country.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 8/21/2012 @ 2:53 pmWell this is all starting to look a little silly. If the Boston Globe is to believed the platform committee has just finished its work and is calling for a constitutional amendment to ban all abortion without exception. Mitt says he is pro life but wants clear exceptions such as for rape and incest. Ryan? Who knows. Scott Brown and a lot of Republican women want abortion to remain legal but early term and rare– exception later term for life of mother only.
We have a big tent. We need a big tent. But it will be the platform language that gets all the attention and push polling. This is madness, madness I tell you. What party is a sane person supposed to belong to when there are no sane parties?
elissa (541216) — 8/21/2012 @ 2:55 pmelissa – When I looked earlier, the only sites reporting that result from the platform committee were far left sites. No confirmation from the right. Prolly no agenda at work.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2012 @ 3:06 pmdaley–I initially wanted to believe it was just the lefty websites huffing. But now ABc is also reporting it and per the Boston Globe Scott Brown has seen it and has written to the committee to tell them they are nuts.
elissa (541216) — 8/21/2012 @ 3:13 pmThis has been the quadrennial bogey-man ever since Roe v. Wade was handed down.
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92) — 8/21/2012 @ 3:15 pmYes, there is a highly vocal segment of the GOP that desires a C-A outlawing abortion, or at least throwing it back to the States as it was pre-Roe.
Every four years we here this big outcry from whomever about a platform plank, which everyone conveniently neglects to mention must be voted upon by the delegates before it is officially adopted.
And, like most platform planks, they can be talking-points to convince marginal voters to stand for your candidate; but, also like most platform planks, conveniently ignored upon entering office as politically impossible/unwise/impractical.
Congress, like most assembled bodies, are great sounding boards (See: UN General Assembly), but are not founts of moral courage. After all, the members all want to be re-elected and adored.
Well, that seals it elissa, everyone knows that ABC is not Left-wing!
AD-Restore the Republic/Obama Sucks! (b8ab92) — 8/21/2012 @ 3:17 pmAnd, who’s to say that Scott Brown isn’t wrong.
AD–you are right about the practicality of it but you are being incredibly naive, I think, about the politics of it. The War on Women theme was put in place for this very moment. (Check out the language in the 2004 and 2008 platforms if you think the Dems were not expecting this and salivating). Sandra Fluke is already on the march. I’ll be shocked if I don’t receive a push poll call yet tonight from her.
I foolishly thought maybe team R. actually wanted to win this election.
elissa (541216) — 8/21/2012 @ 3:44 pmOoh, AD, the lady says you are “naive”. You coulda had a V8.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 8/21/2012 @ 3:54 pmThis is what ABC says: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/gop-approves-abortion-amendment-keeps-silent-on-cases-of-rape/
Aug 21, 2012 5:44pm
GOP Approves Abortion Amendment, Keeps Silent on Cases of Rape
The Republican National Committee approved a platform amendment opposing abortion Tuesday, essentially reproducing its stated policies from 2008 and 2004 – and highlighting a potential divide between Mitt Romney and some in his party on the issue.
The amendment does not mention cases of rape, incest or danger to the life of the mother. Romney supports the legality of abortion in those cases, but Republicans disagree on the point. By remaining silent on the issue, the platform leaves room for disagreement within Republican ranks.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 8/21/2012 @ 4:18 pmPresidential candidates frequently state disagreement with the platform.
It is not uncommon for a minority point of view to be given its way on the platform – which, after all, when adopted, does not become law.
This is true in both parties – for years and years.
The Democratic Party may have a few controversial items in its platform.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 8/21/2012 @ 4:21 pmThis is probably very similar to, if not exactly the same thing, as was in the 2004 and 2008 platforms.
This platform plank can be, and has been, interpreted as allowing for exceptions.
Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 8/21/2012 @ 4:23 pmLest the hyperventilation get out of hand – It’s the economy (and unemployment/jobs), guys !
Abortion is the shiny squirrel – and we need to Focus !
Alasdair (81fcf1) — 8/21/2012 @ 4:23 pmHey elissa, could you please provide links to ANY LEGITIMATE INFORMATION, WHATSOEVER, which proves that “the platform committee has just finished its work and is calling for a constitutional amendment to ban all abortion without exception”?
I would be very curious to see if you can find ANY such proof.
Icy (8445db) — 8/21/2012 @ 5:06 pmelephant stone
Ghost_on_the_Wind (9b08f5) — 8/21/2012 @ 5:10 pmOccasionally I’ve heard some jaw-dropping opinions about rape. A few years ago I ended a dating relationship after I was informed that rape is justified when a women is dressed too provocative. He was referring to a highly publicized case when the women went commando at a bar. I admit I think that common sense would indicate that wearing a short dress and no underwear will invite very aggressive behavior, and I would consider it taunting males, and therefore,risky behavior. Even so, I replied that sexual taunting does not justify violence. He replied that he did not see how rape was really possible..(gave explanation of physical challenge of it etc…) I lacked the words to respond to the idiot for a full minute. Later on, I wondered, how many other people really buy into that viewpoint that rape doesn’t really happen?
being raped doesn’t make you special you still have to have the baby cause of my religious views I don’t care who you are
GOPfeet (3c92a1) — 8/21/2012 @ 5:10 pm==Abortion is the shiny squirrel – and we need to Focus !==
Tell that to the platform committee, Alasdair. I watched us lose the 2010 Illinois governorship at the last minute over that shiny squirrel named “social issues”.
The hysterical phone calls, mailings and push polls from Dem operatives (in the final weeks of that election) calling Republicans “extreme” worked very well, indeed. I want this election to be about the economy and Obamacare and the debt and jobs–and you want it to be about the economy, etc., but the Dems don’t. Why do we hand this issue to them on a silver platter every dang time?
AD says the platform’s not final and maybe we can have a convention floor fight over the wording of the abortion plank? Yeah, there’ve been some doozy floor fights at the conventions of both parties over the years. But I’m thinking this is not the one we needed to have this year.
elissa (541216) — 8/21/2012 @ 5:19 pmDid you find it yet?
Icy (107527) — 8/21/2012 @ 5:22 pmSeriously? Stop the gendercide of the American male!
Dana (292dcf) — 8/21/2012 @ 5:23 pmIcy–v
Bob McDonnell is the lead of the committee.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/national-international/166956226.html
elissa (541216) — 8/21/2012 @ 5:25 pmSo what are you saying, elissa? That the GOP platform should say nothing about the most important moral issue of our time?! Ignore it as if it doesn’t exist?! Of course it has to say something, and the only thing it can say is that it ought to be illegal. It doesn’t have to get into details about what exceptions should exist. (Life of the mother would be allowed anyway, because of necessity.)
Milhouse (15b6fd) — 8/21/2012 @ 5:30 pmelissa #279 – better now than in late October !
Alasdair (81fcf1) — 8/21/2012 @ 5:31 pmthe most important moral issue of our time?
really? maybe, I guess
but our hyper-indebted rapidly-aging pampered little country of snotty cowardly food-stamp-swilling disabled losers isn’t going to have this glorious luxury for very much longer
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/21/2012 @ 5:35 pmActually he’s not too shabby on a whole host of issues,
http://akin.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=1
narciso (ee31f1) — 8/21/2012 @ 5:38 pmmilhouse #283 – how is it the “most important moral issue” of our time ?
You will get agreement from me on the “important moral issue” without needing to go into hysterical Democrat territory adding the word “most” …
There is good reason to believe that the impoverishment of chronic unemployment for millions of able-bodied folk is at least as important a moral issue, since it impacts their ongoing health and quality of Life – and is being done for crass cronyism …
There is good reason to believe that the current trend towards abandoning Israel is as important a moral issue, in that it shows the current moral fibre (fiber?) of this country’s leaders and is perceived as the current moral fiber of this country …
When we hyperventilate and declaim it as the “MOST IMPORTANT”, we feed the image of extremism … when we calmly and rationally and tenaciously hold to our beliefs, and explain them to anyone who will listen, those who wish to paint us as extreme are left sounding shrill and looking extreme themselves …
Akin pulled a Biden … and we would have been better served by having him apologise, and explain, and move on … we play into Democrat hands when we hand-wring and accept Democrat definitions of the situation – when we accept such definitions, we almost deserve what we get …
Alasdair (81fcf1) — 8/21/2012 @ 5:42 pmprocreative rape is somewhat controversial even now in the 21st century but you have to remember that God loves us we love each other father mother sister brother
everybody sing and shout!
cause of that’s what it’s all about
it’s about LOVE!
yes my friends procreative rape – or the blessed rape as we call it (as opposed to legitimate rape, which leads to messy self-abortions) – leads instead directly to cute baby wazzle-dazzles! And everybody LUVS cute baby wazzle-dazzles! Whooza goo rape baby? Yes him’s a goo rape baby! Hah! Soooo cute! Facebooking it!
So as you can see, instead of criticizing Brother Akin, we should all go eat tasty chick fil a sammiches!
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/21/2012 @ 5:55 pm“If a man is going to presume to have an opinion on abortion,”
Dana – I will let a woman tell me what that opinion should be.
Otherwise my begging for sex foreplay doesn’t have a shot in hell of ever working.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 8/21/2012 @ 5:57 pmNo, neither of those issues, important as they are, compare to the murder of millions with the consent and active support of the legal system. Imagine if the Supreme Court granted the Crips and Bloods a license to kill whomever they liked, declaring it a right, the federal government gave them money for the bullets, and forced the state governments to do likewise. Now tell me how the current situation is different. Tell me how it’s different from the Holocaust.
Even if US abandonment of Israel would lead to the second Holocaust that the Arabs have been trying to carry out since their German allies were interrupted in the middle of the first one, it would not be the USA’s crime, just as the first one was not the USA’s crime despite its refusal to do anything about it. Failure to prevent evil is not the same as committing it. If abortion were merely a tolerated crime, something that was illegal but rarely prosecuted, I wouldn’t be calling it the greatest moral issue of our time; it’s the legality and open support that makes me say it is.
Generally, it doesn’t affect my vote, because there’s nothing I can do about it. I feel like an abolitionist voter in the 1810s; no matter whom I vote for slavery will continue, and in the meantime there are issues where my vote can improve things. So even if those issues aren’t as important as slavery, they have to take precedence because they can be achieved and abolition can’t. But once abolition became possible they’d vote for an abolitionist candidate even if they didn’t agree with him on anything else.
Milhouse (cdd41b) — 8/21/2012 @ 6:20 pmBrother Aken probably believes rape is physically impossible too. (See earlier remark) Why aren’t these idiots found out before they get into the big races? No one heard his opinion before now?
Ghost_on_the_Wind (9b08f5) — 8/21/2012 @ 6:27 pmTee-hee-heee…..hawwwwwwww..hawwwwwwwww
larry reilly (0ed84a) — 8/21/2012 @ 6:50 pmHe’s yours.
All yours.
Your concern, your outcry, is simply for the fact that he says in the plainest English what everyone here in this damp, dark, warm room of fungal overgrowth actually believes.
But it should go unspoken, you say.
Eh?
Tee-hee-hee.
This one has legs. Like months of legs.
Tee-hee-hee.
oh, lahwee, stop squealin’ like a pig…
Colonel Haiku (71041d) — 8/21/2012 @ 6:58 pmPeople – Mawy Reilly is a freaking journalist. And he would have you believe the MFM is not biased. /spit
He is saying the same thing the NYT editorial did today, Akin spoke that which we believe. Even if we do not believe it.
You disgust me, Larry.
JD (746d0b) — 8/21/2012 @ 7:08 pmYeah, right… whereas the only “legitimate” rape recognized by liberals is one committed by someone who’s not a liberal.
Roman Polanski RAPES — actually, SODOMIZES — a 12yo girl, as she’s begging and pleading with him to stop, and, when he’s about to be convicted for it, runs away.
…But that’s A-OK!! Because HE’s a LIBERAL.
In the years that follows, he shows no remorse at all… even openly stating “Everyone wants to F*** young girls”
…But that’s A-OK!! Because HE’s a LIBERAL.
He gets caught and attempts to extradite him are in process, and all sorts of Hollywood types come out supporting him.
…But that’s A-OK!! Because HE’s a LIBERAL.
Whoopi Goldberg describes his RAPE and SODOMIZATION of a 12yo girl as “not ‘rape rape'”
…But that’s A-OK!! Because SHE’s a LIBERAL.
But Akin says one duma** thing that is so blatantly wrong it’s preposterous. The GOP immediately moves to eject his stupid, brain-dead a**….
And the entire Republican Party and all conservatives get pilloried…
…But that’s A-OK!! Because THEY’re conservatives!!
The two-faced BS double standard you people use is **disgusting**. You’re WORSE than Roman Polanski. At least he’s HONEST about the kind of reprehensible scum he is.
=============
P.S., you’ll see variants of the above posted as “OBloodyHell” — that’s not an effort to astroturf this, or anything. That’s been a preferred moniker all along, but someone put the e-mail on a spam blacklist so I had to create a different identity or be automatically rejected. Many of the “fixed” online IDs like discus, however, still have the OBH name.
IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States (8e2a3d) — 8/21/2012 @ 7:10 pmNo, larry, is a courier for the journolist, rarely does he show any original insight,
narciso (ee31f1) — 8/21/2012 @ 7:14 pmI agree with all Milhouse’s posts.
The thing which has people going nuts is Akin’s unfortunate phrase “legitimate rape” which makes it sound like rape can be okay, which he clearly didn’t mean. He’s not the sharpest tool in the shed. A baby from a rape is no less human than one from consensual sex. I have no idea how anyone can argue otherwise.
Gerald A (f26857) — 8/21/2012 @ 7:15 pmI do think The Right is taking the wrong track on this.
They need to hunt down comments made in defense of Polanski, and, for exact comparison, made about Whoopi’s “It wasn’t rape rape” comment, and go on the offensive. They were talking about someone convicted of the rape and sodomizing or a 12yo girl as she begged him to stop, who has never, ever, shown any contrition or notion that what he did was wrong, and and endless litany of people who DO apparently see “two types” of rape.
But, as I note — they’re all liberals, so “that’s ok”.
That’ll shut them up on this REAL FAST. The one thing they really hate is to have someone point out, effectively and well, when they’re being two-faced hypocrites… because they KNOW that’s not an argument they have any hope of winning.
Then, we clean house and kick the stupid mother-epher out of the Senate. A stupid error it is, but it’s one of the more obvious brain-dead firing offenses I’ve ever seen. Make a comment like that at any legitimate job around pretty much ANY woman, and you’ll be out of that job faster than the door can hit you on the way out, if The Flash was slamming it behind you.
IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States (8e2a3d) — 8/21/2012 @ 7:17 pmWhoopi Goldberg probably didn’t know the facts about Polansky’s rape, which is why she said it wasn’t “rape rape”. Her point was well-made, it just wasn’t factually correct. There is a difference between actual rape and things that aren’t rape but the law counts as if they were. Had Polansky done of one of those things, then although the legal penalty of rape would apply, the sort of moral outrage that was seen against him, and the decades-long vendetta to get him, would have been uncalled for. But he didn’t, so they were.
Milhouse (15b6fd) — 8/21/2012 @ 7:25 pmgo on the offensive
i liked it better when the campaign was about jobs
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/21/2012 @ 7:27 pmWhoopi Goldberg is generally clueless, as when she asked McCain, if she had to worry about slavery coming back.
narciso (ee31f1) — 8/21/2012 @ 7:27 pm292. “This one has legs. Like months of legs.”
Akin clearly hopes this will all blow over and the H8rs will unite behind him, “hold their nose” if they must.
‘Where are they going to go?’
Looky at Fauxcohontas, Lowly Wormy. She’s five behind and falling back.
Akin is toast, one way or another, and no, he will not even be noticed in MN, for one.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 8/21/2012 @ 7:30 pmAkin is toast for sure it doesn’t help that he looks and sounds exactly like the worstest caricature you could invent of him hey where’s that amazon.com link I need me some trout chow and some hardtack
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/21/2012 @ 7:33 pmI like many Polanski movies especially MacBeth and I like happyfeet
pdbuttons (09ad71) — 8/21/2012 @ 7:51 pmMr. buttons! It’s summertime and also the livin is fairly easy, no? Best summer in many many moons I think. It’s alive with possibility and promise!
Bad news is the amazon people can’t hook a pikachu up with either trout chow or hardtack.
Hardtack I got from here but the shipping is ridiculous for the trout chow in both places I tried online so I’m gonna call around the valley tomorrow.
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/21/2012 @ 8:02 pmI like toddler fight club and the words ‘astronaut diapers’ together. I used to like protein wisdom[ I still kinda,sorta do]
pdbuttons (09ad71) — 8/21/2012 @ 8:06 pmDidn’t recognize the name. Thanks for the heads up.
NJRob (fe68e7) — 8/21/2012 @ 8:12 pmprotein wisdom will always hold a special place in my heart next to some old a-teens videos and a tin of persimmon cookies
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/21/2012 @ 8:12 pmIf happyfeet ever publishes a book of “happyfeet’s best commentaries”; please sign me up the first edition.
Ghost_on_the_Wind (9b08f5) — 8/21/2012 @ 8:36 pmAre persimmon cookies really a thing?
Milhouse (15b6fd) — 8/21/2012 @ 8:37 pmyes they are! – kinda tricksy I thought, but yes
if I ever published anything for sure that recipe would be there cause of how persimmons are really the only seasonal fruit for fall and early winter and they’re just really magical how they taste like fall and early winter
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/21/2012 @ 8:53 pmoh and yeah I left the raisins out
maybe that was wrong of me
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/21/2012 @ 8:54 pmGrapes can relate to the raisins- they know what it’s like to be left out [ in the sun ]
pdbuttons (09ad71) — 8/21/2012 @ 9:08 pmI don’t care for raisins. You can leave them out for all I care. And aren’t apples and pomegranates and citrus in season then?
Milhouse (15b6fd) — 8/21/2012 @ 10:08 pmapples are sorta all year round at least how i think of them but I forgot about pomegranates, but mostly i just add those to salads anyway, which isn’t very festive
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/21/2012 @ 10:10 pmOh those spicy Holiday fruit cakes. Except my ancient great-aunt would dose it with enough bourbon to knock you out at 20 paces. She was a tee-totalier of course.
Ghost_on_the_Wind (9b08f5) — 8/21/2012 @ 10:11 pmi really really love fruit cakes I have no idea how they got such a bad rap
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 8/21/2012 @ 10:13 pmWilliam Tells kid got so pissed at his old man that he went to India like them fat Beatles and changed his name to ‘ Baba Ram Raisinet ‘
pdbuttons (09ad71) — 8/21/2012 @ 10:20 pmTrue story-prove me wrong
Oh yeah-I almost ferget-He had a time machine
pdbuttons (09ad71) — 8/21/2012 @ 10:30 pm“He’s yours.”–Larry
“Akin is an outspoken opponent of abortion in all cases, including health reasons or in cases of rape or incest. He opposes embryonic stem cell research, is a supporter of the right to keep and bear arms, and is generally opposed to increases in taxation and spending. As a U.S. Representative, he has continued to support these views, earning a 96% rating from the American Conservative Union in 2008, and 100% in 2007.[16] Akin has an A rating from the National Rifle Association.[17]”–wiki
I WISH he was mine. Unfortunately guys like this don’t win elections in the San Francisco Bay Area…at least not in the part I live in.
I’d vote for him in a heartbeat, if he ever wants to run for office out here in the land o’ fruits and nuts.
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