Patterico's Pontifications

8/8/2012

Most Disingenuous Ad Ever? Updated

Filed under: 2008 Election,2012 Election — JD @ 6:21 am

[Guest post by JD]

Bill Burton is a mendoucheous twatwaffle.

The ad the Priorities USA is running about how evil Romney/Bain is responsible for the death of a former employee’s wife from cancer is dishonest on so many levels.

First, Romney left Bain’s day-to-day operations 2 years before the evil plant closing. The plant was in financial trouble before Bain ever got involved. Tragically, the wife was diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer almost 5 years later, and died shortly thereafter. However, she had insurance through her employer through 2002, or 2003, 2 years after the evil plant closing.

The ad suggests that Romney/Bain are responsible for a death from cancer in 2006, due to the spouse’s loss of a job in 2001. It is despicable. And untrue. Even CNN thinks so.

Update – in what must be the pinnacle of irony and cognitive dissonance, an Obama fundraiser and large bundler, Jonathon Lavine, was the head of Bain at the time of the evil layoffs and closing in question. Obama does not shy away from taking filthy Bain campaign dollars, but earning money from Bain makes you a vulture or vampire.

– JD

353 Responses to “Most Disingenuous Ad Ever? Updated”

  1. Disgusting

    JD (318f81)

  2. if it’s not true then why did Romney let my dog die

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  3. Dear Santa/stop/Mommy fell down again/stop/slippers you sent last year didn’t work /stop/you suck/full stop

    pdbuttons (a9b91c)

  4. Remember the claim that the evil Bush and the evil Banksters caused the recession?

    book by Fed economist says … uh uh Fed did it.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  5. Morris says the polls are Potemkin data, the Manchurian is fading. Gonna pull up lame any day.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  6. Democrats are nothing but liars with no honor or self-respect. When one objects to this statement, all I get from “Why do you tolerate them leading your party?” is a shrug of the shoulders and a lame excuse not to tar them with their leader’s actions.

    PCD (1d8b6d)

  7. No. The James Byrd ad is more despicable.

    aunursa (7014a8)

  8. Aunursa – forgot about that one.

    JD (318f81)

  9. The gentlemen who lent his name to this ad deserves serious criticism also. Just because his wife passed does not give him a pass for participating in this.

    As pointed out, how is losing health care insurance a few years after the plant closing have any bearing on his wife getting cancer later in life?

    So people with health care insurance don’t die of cancer?

    In addition even if you accept this preposterous claim, what the hell did he (and she) do in those years to have prevented the cancer or gotten health care insurance?

    Bill Burton is a scum politician but what do you call the guy in the Ad?

    Rodney King's Spirit (aeda60)

  10. You know all those government roads that Obama claims are responsible for the success of every private enterprise in the country ?

    Well, they’re also responsible for drunk driving deaths that occur on them. And traffic accident fatalities.

    When will Obama finally take responsibility for all the traffic fatalities that occurred on federal highways during the past three and a half years ?

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  11. If Romney’s folks were smart they’d come out with an ad highlighting the storyline and the facts with the punch line “Cool Story Bro!” superimposed over Obama’s picture.

    In fact, they’d do this all over the place on all of Obama’s fabrications and malfeasance.

    Rodney King's Spirit (aeda60)

  12. #10 Roads kill. Obama is a murderer for building roads.

    Rodney King's Spirit (aeda60)

  13. He lied about his mother’s insurance problem, as Kessler pointed out in March, now the link is unavailable.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  14. We now officially live in an Orwellian Universe.

    But I wonder when Bill “Drunk” Burton and Obama and Axelgrease will give Romney and Bain Capital credit for the hundreds of thousands of people who became employed by businesses that benefitted from Bain’s infusion of capital, which elicited those businesses to hire people—who then received medical insurance for themselves and their family thru the employer.

    I’m certain there’s an employee in that scenario whose child received a polio vaccination that was covered by the aforementioned health care plan provided by the employer.
    Therefore, by the standard enacted by Bill “Drunk” Burton, Obama, and Axelgrease, Mitt Romney is directly responsible for saving a child from being ravaged by polio.

    I wonder when they’ll run that commercial on television.

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  15. Shouldn’t the headline be “Most Disingenuous Ad So Far?” or “Most Disingenuous Ad Yet?”

    You know they’re going lower.

    Harry Reid will make the allegation that Romney raped Mexican girls on his grandparents’ Mexican “polygamy commune” (Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer’s words, a man who is recently gaining fame for telling fellow Democrats that white Montanans are racist rednecks) to break their wills and force them to become obedient Mormon brides.

    I can’t wait to see the ads. “Mitt Romney. Outsourcer. Murderer. Now Rapist.”

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  16. Mitt Romney probably burnt down a bunch of black churches, too.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  17. so now he’s lying more than ever
    pimping out a dead wife and mother
    you need a cancer umbrella
    let O be ur cancer umbrella

    yeah yeah ay ay ay and et cetera

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  18. “In 1999 Romney leaves Bain”
    No
    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/romney-bain-abortion-stericycle-sec
    “On February 12, 1999, the Boston Herald reported, “Romney said he will stay on as a part-timer with Bain, providing input on investment and key personnel decisions.” And a Bain press release issued on July 19, 1999, noted that Romney was “currently on a part-time leave of absence”—and quoted Romney speaking for Bain Capital. In 2001 and 2002, Romney filed Massachusetts state disclosure forms noting he was the 100 percent owner of Bain Capital NY, Inc.—a Bain outfit that was incorporated in Delaware on April 13, 1999—two months after Romney’s supposed retirement from the firm. A May 2001 filing with the SEC identified Romney as “a member of the Management Committee” of two Bain entities. And in 2007, the Washington Post reported that R. Bradford Malt, a Bain lawyer, said Romney took a “leave of absence” when he assumed the Olympics post and retained sole ownership of the firm for two more years.”
    The husband loses his job and his insurance, the wife loses her job a year or so after. When she’s diagnosed years after that, it’s stage 4 cancer. So much for yearly check ups.

    In Japan, or Sweden or France it might have happened very differently. maybe her onset was sudden but we don’t know. And in the meantime makes made his money as a vampire.

    And by the way Reid has never accused Romney of cheating on his taxes just not paying income taxes.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/08/tpm_reader_mb_returns.php?ref=fpblg

    still sleeeeepy (b5f718)

  19. Bad sentence. Sloppy sleeeepy

    “And in the meantime Romney makes his money as a vampire.”

    still sleeeeepy (b5f718)

  20. Sloppy lying, to be more accurate.

    JD (30f261)

  21. Sorry, troll. That’s your side. Where is that hope and change? The truth is, and it drives you silly trolls nuts, it is just Chicago hardball under the puerile slogans.

    Own it. It’s your guy.

    Simon Jester (e5aad8)

  22. Sleepy, talkingpoints memo? The liar kicked off the Hugh Hewitt show for constant lying? You have got to be desperate.

    PCD (1d8b6d)

  23. Sleepy,

    Did you really just attempt to convince us that a person not paying their income taxes does not qualify as a definition of “cheating” on their income taxes ?

    If Code Pink is going to send you guys out here to infiltrate conservative-leaning blogs, can’t they send someone with an IQ above 50 ? (Now, come to think of it, that probably is a hurdle that few people in Code Pink can jump.)

    Not paying taxes IS “cheating” on taxes.

    For instance, if you owe me twenty bucks from a poker game I beat you at, and then you refuse to pay me, that constitutes “cheating” me out of twenty bucks.
    You refused to pay me, therefore, we say that you “cheated” me.

    I swear, you lefties just corrupt the language at every turn. That’s because your policies and arguments cannot be viewed as persuasive or successful within the context of language as its understood by most reasonable people.
    That’s why Clinton wants to re-define “is,” and that’s why Obama wants to call a confiscatory tax an “investment.”
    In fact, that’s why they keep flip-flopping on whether or not ObamaCare imposes a “tax,” or a “penalty.”…it’s because the argument cannot be made within the context of a reasonable understanding of words.
    It’s why we have to “pass the bill so we can find out what’s in it.”
    Pelosi knew that if we knew ahead of time what’s actually in the bill, we wouldn’t want it.

    It’s why Obama tries to claim “that” refers to “roads and bridges,” rather than “business.”
    Even though any third grader can tell you that proper agreement with the noun phrase “roads and bridges” demands the word, “those” rather than “that.”

    Lefties simply have to corrupt the language because their arguments make no sense using standard English.

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  24. “On February 12, 1999, the Boston Herald reported, “Romney said he will stay on as a part-timer with Bain, providing input on investment and key personnel decisions.”

    Comment by still sleeeeepy — 8/8/2012 @ 7:54 am

    If Romney actually was the one who decided to shut down the mill, which is nothing more than speculation, then you have to add in yet another assumption that some kind of checkup she would have gotten would have caught the cancer in time, it’s irrelevant anyway. What is the point of all this? The mill was losing money. Does anyone dispute that?

    There’s some inference we’re apparently supposed to get from this that Bain deliberately caused it to lose money and somehow profited as a result. You have to be really really stupid to believe something like that.

    Unfortunately Gingrich was making that very suggestion during the primaries. I said at the time conservatives would be crazy to keep supporting him after that (highly unconservative) statement.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  25. Jonathan Lavine, was running that operation, like Corzine a major Obama bundler.

    Romney was actually making the policy argument that the rich need to pay their fair share, not Gingrich,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  26. And by the way Reid has never accused Romney of cheating on his taxes just not paying income taxes.

    Comment by still sleeeeepy — 8/8/2012 @ 7:54 am

    Hey sleepy you should try reading an excellent blog called patterico.com.

    If you did you would have seen this:

    Not only would Reid not name his source, but experts told a couple of news outlets it was almost impossible that the Republican presidential candidate had paid no taxes.

    Salon.com talked to tax attorneys and found the claim that Romney paid zero over a decade “nothing short of ludicrous.”

    Thus we can conclude that if he did in fact not pay any income taxes then he would have to have cheated.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  27. As an aside about the steel mill:

    It closed down at a time when Chinese low-grade steel manufacture had ramped up and the Chinese factories low labor costs made it imposible for US firms, union or not to compete. 3/4 of US steel manufacture went out at that time.

    The US could and can still compete in high grade steels. (You can’t trust Chinese quality – it’s a longstanding Chinese business tactic from the 1500s to start a contract fulfilling quality but gradually reduce as time goes by and testing has slackened, leading to the scandals you read about in the papers. But it’s hard to cheat on low-grade steel, thus.)

    And this steel company wasn’t able to adapt in time.

    luagha (26b5a0)

  28. Romney was actually making the policy argument that the rich need to pay their fair share, not Gingrich,

    Comment by narciso — 8/8/2012 @ 8:58 am

    What’s your point narciso?

    Gerald A (f26857)

  29. Obama and his campaign are a train wreck.
    Mittens had better not blow this.

    mg (44de53)

  30. then you have to add in yet another assumption that some kind of checkup she would have gotten would have caught the cancer in time

    Comment by Gerald A — 8/8/2012 @ 8:54 am

    After reading narciso’s link I see she had health insurance.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  31. Every one of the dems’ poster childs for health care changes has been a lie. Every. Single. One.

    Richard Aubrey (0aac79)

  32. About as real as the NHS tribute at the Olympics.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  33. The husband loses his job and his insurance, the wife loses her job a year or so after. When she’s diagnosed years after that, it’s stage 4 cancer. So much for yearly check ups.

    But the wife had insurance. So much for your talking point.

    BTW, not everyone who has insurance gets annual check ups. My father-in-law had insurance, but he never went to a doctor until he had some persistent abdominal pain. He was diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer, and died about 6 weeks later.

    Chuck Bartowski (3bccbd)

  34. still sleeeepy still can’t maintain the narrative without lying.

    “Vampire”? Great, while Obama the parasite that’s never worked an honest day in his life sucks the life blood from the nation with his ideologically driven destruction of our nation.

    Vote for the Mormon Vampire, not the Moron Vampire.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  35. What I find endlessly amusing is that one of the actual people involved in this evil plant closing that caused this lady to get cancer and die is Lavine, an Obambi bundler. They are blaming Romney for what one of their own fundraisers did.

    JD (bcf1b6)

  36. That’s the power of his mind control device, JD, lol.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  37. Mark Steyn has a great line on NRO:

    [I]t’s not just that Mitt Romney hasn’t paid any taxes since 1975 and that Bain Capital is the planet’s largest distributor of E. coli which it manufactures in petri dishes offshored to Mitt’s safe deposit box in the Cayman Islands, but that Mitt will kill your loved ones five years after his minions lay you off. Just because he can.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  38. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79482.html#.UCKQfD_Xpmg.twitter

    Romney Spox

    “To that point, if people had been in Massachusetts, under Governor Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care,” Andrea Saul, Romney’s campaign press secretary, said during an appearance on Fox News. “There are a lot of people losing their jobs and losing their health care in President [Barack] Obama’s economy.”

    Erick Erickson on Twitter “OMG. This might just be the moment Mitt Romney lost the election. Wow.”

    And Gerald: INCOME TAXES. not taxes as such.
    Go read the explanation at the link I posted.

    still sleeeeepy (b5f718)

  39. Sleepy,

    Time to wake up.

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  40. Again:
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/08/missing_the_key_issue.php?ref=fpblg
    “I think you’re missing a key nuance from Romney’s denials and indignation here. Note that the response always appears to be “I paid a lot of taxes” and not “I paid a lot of income taxes.”
    Anyone making $10 to $20 million per year will pay a lot of taxes in absolute dollars — state taxes, property taxes, city taxes, sales taxes, etc. But the distinction you’re missing is whether or not these taxes were income taxes.

    From my initial understanding (and I am no tax professional, but have 10 years experience in private equity and am familiar with how the senior professionals manage their finances), there’s a possibility that Romney paid very little (i.e. less than 10%) income taxes during the 2002 to 2009 period in many of those years. It is quite possible that some of those years could have approached zero. There’s a lot of different ways to make that happen, through standard structuring/gifting, offshore planning, charitable contributions, and favorable recent tax laws for carried interest and capital gains. I think you should try and pivot the discussion around “were these income taxes that Romney paid” and not “did Romney pay taxes.”
    Just a thought from looking at the nuances behind Romney’s replies to Reid — he appears to be very careful not to say “income taxes even when the initial claim by Reid was specifically around income taxes.”

    still sleeeeepy (b5f718)

  41. I hope you checked all this info instead of swallowing jabba the rush’s rant of the day whole

    tye (770315)

  42. Well, if you don’t have very much “income” (after leaving Bain, and before becoming Governor, just who did he work for other than the Winter Olympics – and did he take a salary from them – and who has he worked for since leaving the Governor’s Mansion?), you’re not going to pay very much in income-taxes.

    I’ll bet that his taxes paid on Capital Gains, and Dividends, were quite substantial.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  43. Tye apparently cannot read. And he lies. As easily as he breathes.

    JD (bcf1b6)

  44. Jabba the rush is so very clever and original, tye. Will we be hearing more of it or is that a one shot spew that hired guns such as yourself are required to insert into a comment thread sometime today?

    elissa (490ab9)

  45. Was sleeeeeeeeepy Reed’s source?

    JD (bcf1b6)

  46. Was Rush on at 6:21 AM today?

    JD (bcf1b6)

  47. “Just a thought from looking at the nuances behind Romney’s replies to Reid”

    still sleeeeepy – Can you explain the “nuance in the statement below, please?

    “Harry’s going to have to describe who it is he spoke with, because, of course, that is totally and completely wrong,” Romney said. “It’s untrue, dishonest and inaccurate. It’s wrong.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/02/romney-to-reid-put-up-or-shut-up-on-source-untrue-tax-claims/#ixzz22yz22KW8

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  48. As I said in my post #15, this is just the most despicable ad so far. They will go lower.

    I’m glad still cooooomatose decided to weigh in and prove me right.

    And by the way Reid has never accused Romney of cheating on his taxes just not paying income taxes.

    And still cooooooomatose decides to give the game away. Romney’s taxes can be perfectly legal, ethical, and above board. It doesn’t matter.

    Dingy Harry and still coooooomatose need more material to lie about.

    You don’t think this scum is calling for Romney to release his taxes so they can say, “yup, everything’s in order,” do you?

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  49. Daley – sleeeeeeeepy and tye are more concerned with how much filthy money Romney earned, than with how Teh One wastes the taxpayers money.

    JD (bcf1b6)

  50. Sleepy,

    When did you stop beating your wife ?

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  51. MSNBC Eviscerates Obama Super PAC Ad

    I hope the Obama campaign and the rest of the criminal conspiracy respond favorably to still comatooooose’s gutter instincts. And really, since they’re all sewer rats, how can they not?

    “This is about as low as either side has gone,” said Mark Halperin, “and I think the people who made it are probably privately remorseless … it’s a despicable ad.”

    Huffington Post writer Sam Stein added, “This is like so beyond what we need to discuss. … This just I think takes it too far.”

    Because not even the gutter snipes on MSNBC have the stomach to tolerate this. Apparently, sewer rats who are proud to be sewer rats make up a small percentage of the public.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  52. “Daley – sleeeeeeeepy and tye are more concerned with how much filthy money Romney earned, than with how Teh One wastes the taxpayers money.”

    JD – tye and sleepy are prolly not taxpayers so they have no difficulty with Obama wasting the money of other people.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  53. daleyrocks, that would explain why they have huge difficulty with Romney holding on to what he legally can hold onto.

    They can’t stop thinking about all the free stuff they could vote themselves if only people like Romney would have to pay for it.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  54. My father had insurance (Medicare/Medicaid/VA). He saw the doctor regularly. He came down with a lymphoma, he got treatments and he died anyway. It sucks, but it was not a function of whether he had treatment and or insurance.

    Loren (998d8f)

  55. Loren,

    What will suck more is when people who’ve been they have health care coverage are denied the health care they need.

    Having Medicaid or Medicare when Obama reduces the compensation they pay doctors to the point where doctors don’t take it, or get of the practice of medicine altogether, makes the coverage pretty worthless.

    So does the fact that the government probably won’t pay to treat people like your dad, depending upon how old he is:

    “Maybe you’re better off, uh, not having the surgery, but taking, uh, the pain killer.

    Barack Obama, July 2009, telling a woman under his plan her mom would have been too old to receive the lifesaving surgery that private insurers currently pay for.

    The government’s got to save money somewhere. And if you think it’s hard now to get a private insurer to pay for medical treatment that they first deny, wait until it becomes impossible once it’s the government denying that treatment.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  56. Steve, I think we are on the same side of that issue. My posting was more in response to the meme that “Mitt Romney killed my wife, since I didn’t have health insurance for 5 years, or 3 or something.”

    People die of cancers, whether they are insured or not. Fewer die now than before, and my father had survived colon cancer for 15 years, but there is never a 100% guarantee of a positive outcome with any medical treatment.

    Loren (998d8f)

  57. Given his reluctance to enforce federal laws against illegal immigration, 0bama is responsible for every crime – heinous or minor – committed by an illegal alien. There’s definitely a much more direct correlation there.

    Colonel Haiku (29801e)

  58. I saw an article about how the WH and GSA agreed to not enforce the laws against the Occupy criminals. SHOCKA

    JD (1979fe)

  59. Just look for the Obama campaign to start referring to Romney as Unindicted Murderer and Tax Cheat Mitt Romney in future press releases.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  60. Loren, first of all my condolences for your dad.

    I agree with your point about there being no guarantees that there will be positive outcomes from any particular course of medical treatment.

    Which is one reason why this is an incredibly stupid as well as dishonest ad.

    But I also think we’ve got to separate the concept of health insurance from health care. Just like there are no guarantees that a particular medical treatment will produce a positive outcome, having insurance is no guarantee that you will actually get the treatment at all.

    In fact, if Obamacare isn’t repealed it is less likely down the road that people will get many potentially life-saving treatments than it is now.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  61. This is getting better, in terms of documenting the layer upon layer of lies this commercial is not only telling but built upon.

    Now the Obama campaign is denying it had anything to do with the ad, because they transparently lie they don’t coordinate with the SuperPACs that support them is if they obey laws they know Holder won’t enforce. But they’re also denying that they know anything about the man’s story about the death of his wife.

    The problem? Stephanie Cutter, Obama’s deputy campaign manager, hosted a conference call back in May featuring this guy Soptic in which he told this exact same story to the press. Oh, and coincidentally he appeared in an Obama campaign ad wearing the exact same clothes that aired back in May, too.

    Team Obama denies knowing story of man in its TV ad, call

    When President Obama’s aides said they weren’t familiar with former Missouri steelworker Joe Soptic’s life story, all they had to do was check their own campaign archives.

    …Soptic also appeared, wearing what appears to be an identical shirt, in a May television ad for the Obama campaign.

    …Stephanie Cutter said on CNN: “I don’t know the facts about when Mr. Soptic’s wife got sick or the facts about his health insurance.”

    …But Cutter hosted an Obama campaign conference call in May in which Soptic told reporters the very story featured in the Priorities spot.

    Both the campaign and the Priorities USA Action said there was no coordination about Soptic’s appearances. In the campaign’s ad, Soptic speaks only about the plant. In the Priorities spot, he tells the personal story he relayed during the Obama campaign conference call.

    …The aide didn’t answer questions about when the Obama campaign shot its Soptic footage or explain Cutter’s televised statement.

    …Soptic did not return phone calls left Wednesday at his home in Independence, Mo. Burton said he could not make Soptic available.

    “We spoke today and he said he didn’t want to do anymore interviews,” Burton said. “He felt like his story was out there and it was being told.”

    Funny. That’s just what Dingy Harry is saying about his latest lie, too. It’s out there and being told.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  62. Steve – wow. Like I said, They are dishonest on many levels.

    JD (1979fe)

  63. Hot Air has a good post on this.

    There’s a video of Obama deputy campaign manager Stephanie Cutter lying about not knowing about this guy’s wife’s story.

    Then the audio of this guy Soptic telling this story on the conference call she hosted. It’s beautiful. It ends with Soptic turning the call “back over to Stephanie.” And then Cutter thanking Soptic and some other guy telling their stories.

    One of which she now claims to not know about. When he’s clearly reading from a script.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  64. “in what must be the pinnacle of irony and cognitive dissonance, an Obama fundraiser and large bundler, Jonathan Lavine, was the head of Bain at the time of the evil layoffs and closing in question.”

    No pushback from me. I don’t defend one group of super rich against another.

    “In more than three decades, no other nominees for either party have released fewer than five years’ worth of returns. Romney’s own father released a dozen years’ worth when he ran for the GOP nomination in 1968.”

    http://factcheck.org/2012/07/romney-and-the-tax-return-precedent/

    still sleeeeepy (b5f718)

  65. Why do you care how much money Romney earned?

    JD (bcf1b6)

  66. Can anyone tell what the leftist troll marching orders are? Lol

    JD (bcf1b6)

  67. “In more than three decades, no other nominees for either party have released fewer than five years’ worth of returns.”

    sleeeepy – Wrong. McCain only release two years. Reagan only released one.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  68. Factcheck doesn’t care much for facts.

    JD (bcf1b6)

  69. “Factcheck”? Shame you don’t have a credible source, still sleeeepy.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  70. As for Cutler’s little lie, she’s trying to avoid prosecution for illegal coordination … and doing a poor job of it.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  71. That still sleeeepy thinks his speculation where he just makes up scenarios in his head is “where Romney lost the election” is comical.

    Obama has already lost the election – by being the worst President in modern history. By screwing up the US economy to the extent that its worse than his own predictions if he’d done nothing his first month.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  72. As for Cutler’s little lie,

    Nominee for understatement of the year.

    JD (bcf1b6)

  73. “My father had insurance (Medicare/Medicaid/VA). He saw the doctor regularly. He came down with a lymphoma, he got treatments and he died anyway. It sucks, but it was not a function of whether he had treatment and or insurance”

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/09/17/us-usa-healthcare-deaths-idUSTRE58G6W520090917
    “Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/07/business/hospital-chain-internal-reports-found-dubious-cardiac-work.html
    “Hospital Chain Inquiry Cited Unnecessary Cardiac Work”

    “In a recent statement, HCA declined to provide evidence that it had alerted Medicare, state Medicaid or private insurers of its findings, or reimbursed them for any of the procedures that the company later deemed unnecessary, as required by law.

    “When the company becomes aware of a situation in which we might have a reimbursement obligation, we assess, with outside resources, what our reimbursement obligations might be,” the statement said.

    HCA also declined to show that it had ever notified patients, who might have been entitled to compensation from the hospital for any harm.”

    still sleeeeepy (b5f718)

  74. BUNNIES¡!!¡¡!!¡¡

    JD (bcf1b6)

  75. Apologies daleyrocks
    I cut off the quote. The 30 years referred to McCain. And Reagan was more than 30 years ago.

    still sleeeeepy (b5f718)

  76. “And Reagan was more than 30 years ago.”

    sleeeepy – Your pull quote says more than three decades, which means Reagan fits.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  77. “Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.”

    sleeeeepy – Please explain why the individuals described in said studies do not have health insurance.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  78. Daley – you know that not having insurance is the only operative factor.

    JD (bcf1b6)

  79. 78- daley, there you go again with those inconvenient facts.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  80. Spare us teh Cutter…

    Colonel Echo (29801e)

  81. What’s in the bottom drawer
    Waiting for things to give
    Spare us teh Cutter
    Spare us teh Cutter
    Couldn’t cut teh muster

    Colonel Echo (29801e)

  82. Today in Colorado, Obama gave a speech where he claimed that Romney wanted to take health care “back to the ’50′s”.

    Last month, it was “Romneycare is just like Obamacare” …

    Can’t keep their lies straight.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  83. Comment by SPQR — 8/8/2012 @ 3:03 pm

    I looked at that quickly. My immediate reaction is that the headline and conclusions suggest more of a cause and effect than merely an association, which is my hunch. In other words, it is not having medicaid per se that makes people have worse health outcomes. My guess is that those with no insurance may tend to be employed but without insurance (in other words, not a “dependent class”), and may tend to have better underlying health, in that they have not already sought coverage for possibly debilitating or disabling conditions.

    I imagine in their methodologies there are attempts to get rid of those confounding variables, but I didn’t look hard enough to be more assertive in my thoughts, FWIW.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  84. Thanks for that link, SPQR 81.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  85. “Daley – you know that not having insurance is the only operative factor.”

    JD – Absolutely. Absence of insurance does not prevent access to care as the dishonest Obama campaign commercial itself proves. Sleeeeepy is just throwing sh*t at the wall and has no grasp of any subject matter.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  86. Avik Roy has been writing for some time on the issues of health insurance and has some interesting viewpoints – he digs up some interesting statistics to back them up.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  87. Greg Sargent denounces the ad.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/debate-over-dead-woman-is-clarifying-moment-in-prez-race/2012/08/08/e24e67f6-e188-11e1-98e7-89d659f9c106_blog.html
    Obama’s backers are scrambling.
    It’s too bad. Obama doesn’t want to lose the support of his billionaires.

    SPQR, we treat the peasants like shit in this country.
    I’d rather be poor in Europe than poor here.
    I’d get much better health care.
    And don’t talk about the economic failure of Europe.
    Their failure is like our failure: corrupt leadership and absurd market speculation. The poor pay. The rich get richer.

    still sleeeeepy (b5f718)

  88. Ed Schultz is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse than Crissy Tingles.

    JD (1979fe)

  89. Actually it’s even more hackneyed than advertised;

    http://minx.cc/?post=331761

    narciso (ee31f1)

  90. Ed thinks they should embrace this utterly dishonest ad. And, Sandra Fluke.

    JD (1979fe)

  91. Romney wanted to take health care “back to the ’50′s”.

    Back to the 50s? You mean when it was affordable?

    Chuck Bartowski (99415f)

  92. So the Obama campaign does an ad … and this SuperPAC does an ad with the same person appearing in it … in the same shirt … with the same background …

    And these ads are not coordinated? Bullshit.

    Here’s a campaign finance criminal violation staring you right in the face.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  93. Back to the 50s? You mean when it was affordable?

    I went to the doc cuz they’d told me I had a “Cadillac walk” and teh doc says buy a DeSoto next time…

    Colonel Haiku (29801e)

  94. Colonel Haiku,

    Regarding #84, tip of the hat to you, Sir, for slyly incorporating lyrics by Echo & The Bunnymen’s song, “The Cutter.”

    And in continuing in the lyrical spirit of aformentioned song, I’ll say that I’m hoping my vote for Romney this November does not merely amount to a drop in the ocean.

    With this circus known as the Alinsky Obama Administration, I say it’s time to Bring on the Dancing Horses because we’ve seen too much Bedbugs and Ballyhoo !

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  95. “Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.”

    1) Could be a lie
    2) Could be the one w/o insurance are in higher risk groups to begin with. Like comparing death rates of 63 year old to death rates of 22 year olds. Stupid comparison.

    Rodney King's Spirit (aeda60)

  96. And Gerald: INCOME TAXES. not taxes as such.
    Go read the explanation at the link I posted.

    Comment by still sleeeeepy — 8/8/2012 @ 11:29 am

    Yes I know that. That’s what the tax attorneys are talking about. Income taxes. That’s what tax attorneys deal with in case you didn’t know. What do you think they were talking about – property taxes?

    Gerald A (f26857)

  97. Back to the 50s? You mean when it was affordable?

    And when Doctors made house calls.

    AD-RtR/OS! (2bb434)

  98. Before there were ICU’s for people with heart attacks, before there was kidney dialysis, when there maybe 1/2 to 1 dozen antibiotics, when ALL in children had about a zero survival rate at one year-

    but at least back then docs really did take out tonsils when it wasn’t necessary. Whether they did it for the money or just thought it was better that way, I don’t know.

    If Obama keeps it up, he may end up saying almost as much just plain stupid stuff as VP Biden.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  99. Yeah, he might, but at least we know Biden’s grades.

    AD-RtR/OS! (2bb434)

  100. And in continuing in the lyrical spirit of aformentioned song, I’ll say that I’m hoping my vote for Romney this November does not merely amount to a drop in the ocean.

    No, you got it wrong, elephant stones… a drop in an ocean of votes for Romney-Ryan (cat’s outta teh bag)…

    Colonel Haiku (52b52b)

  101. BRYAN PRESTON: Why Team Obama Ran with the Dishonest ‘Mitt Killed My Wife!’ Ad. “As I wrote yesterday, we’re dealing with something in the Obama campaign that we haven’t seen much at the top of American life, except in the worst moments of the Clinton era. We’re dealing with a president who is entirely without any sense of ethics, honor or morals. He has lived a lie for most if not all of his life, hiding his true political convictions in gauzy language that makes him appear reasonable and moderate. Having lived a lie, what’s one more lie, in the service of keeping himself in power?”

    http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/148248/

    Colonel Haiku (52b52b)

  102. NPR Special Series: The Aurora Theater Shootings

    milk it baby milk it

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  103. Is it really Romney Ryan?

    Wow. That’s a pretty decent consolation prize for folks of my stripe.

    Dustin (73fead)

  104. Don’t forget you read it here first, Dustin.

    Colonel Haiku (52b52b)

  105. I was just about to post that, narciso.

    Basically, when you add it all up, this guy Joe Soptic is a lying sack of union excrement who, like all lying sacks of union excrement, thinks someone owes them their lavish pensions and cadillac health insurance plans.

    If they drive their employers out of business, then they think their former employer or the investors in the company should keep paying for their health insurance. (In the UAW’s case, they think the taxpayer should take over the responsibility.)

    That’s the only conclusion it’s possible to draw from Soptic’s statement that his wife wouldn’t have died if Bain Capital “kept its promise.”

    Who promises to keep paying for someone’s health insurance five years after terminating someone? No one.

    Moreover, his wife didn’t die because of lack of healthcare. She got healthcare. She just got it too late. And Joe Soptic stated himself that he got the bill for it. He was afraid he’d have to pay for it the rest of his life.

    And whose fault his that? His wife had health insurance through her work until she left it. Again for emphasis, she left her job. That’s also probably Mitt Romney’s fault, in Joe Soptic’s self-centered world of entitlement.

    So he’s just whining that he has to pay for his own damned healthcare. I suppose whoever isn’t buying him groceries is guilty of starving him to death, too.

    So, let’s review. The company offered these union workers a buy-out because they had to reduce costs. And they couldn’t fire these union workers.

    The union workers wouldn’t take the buy out. Because the plant couldn’t remain competitive, it closed.

    Joe Soptic lost his health insurance. But his wife still had hers through her own employer for another year or two. Until she left her job.

    Five years after helping to put his former employer out of business, his wife got sick with pneumonia. Of course, Joe Soptic isn’t a doctor. We know it’s pneumonia because they sought medical attention.

    In other words, no one in this country is denied health care. Joe Soptic’s wife received health care, and discovered she was sick with pneumonia. At the same time, she discovered she had cancer.

    She was hospitalized. But it was too late to do anything. Joe Soptic got a bill.

    Half a decade after killing off his own job, it’s Mitt Romney’s fault he and his wife don’t seek medical attention until it’s too late. Apparently it’s “daddy’s” fault for not footing the bill for the rest of Joe Soptic’s life, or telling them when they should see a doctor, and I suppose for not showing up and driving them to the hospital.

    Joe Soptic is the perfect Democrat. He’s unable to lead his own life as a responsible adult. And he’s willing to lie on behalf of any Democrat willing to promise him free stuff so he never has to be an adult and be responsible for himself.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  106. Just so you know, I’m not criticizing Joe Soptic’s wife.

    Some cancers are asymptomatic until it’s too late.

    I knew one acquaintance, a friend and coworker of my wife, who died of cancer who never found out until it was too late. I still don’t know what kind of cancer it was. One day he was brushing his teeth, and his gums started to bleed and wouldn’t stop. He went to the doctor and was diagnosed with cancer. He was dead inside of two weeks.

    Some people experience symptoms, but are afraid to go to the hospital because they’re afraid of what the doctors might find.

    The mother of another friend was such a person. She had smoked all her life, and I found out later in addition to her hacking cough she would occasionally cough up blood. Her children kept telling her if she didn’t go see a doctor she’d have a heart attack. Sure enough, at 47 she had a heart attack. Then she had to go. And the good news was she didn’t have cancer. She stayed away and nearly killed herself over nothing.

    But Joe Soptic? He was reading a script. If anyone believes Obama’s deputy campaign manager Stephanie Cutter put Joe Soptic in a starring role in a campaign conference call without the campaign writing that script, I’ve got beachfront property in Nebraska to sell you. They scrubbed the details so Joe Soptic could lie to the press.

    So he could say that when he lost his job, his family lost its health insurance. A lie, because his wife still had coverage through her employer.

    And so he could lie and say that “shortly after” he was laid off his wife was diagnosed with stage IV cancer. No, that’s lie too.

    Stephanie Cutter might be able to get away with lying that she didn’t know the details about the timeline. If she didn’t it’s because she has no regard for and doesn’t want to know the truth.

    But Joe Soptic can’t say he didn’t know his story was a lie.

    Now, if we had a press that was worth a p*** in this country, they’d find out who paid those bills Joe Soptic was worried he’d have to make payments on until he died.

    I got the distinct impression since he talked about that fear in the past tense, he’s not afraid of that possibility anymore.

    We know he lied. Now we just have to learn who paid him to do it.

    But I repeat, I’m not criticizing the wife. I’m sure she never dreamed she married a shameless pimp who’d whore out her memory after she died.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  107. Hard for me to summon a lot of anger at this Joe guy. Yeah, he is part of a shameful attack, but he’s probably governed by powerful emotions and a need to blame that has made him irrational. It’s easy to see that causing him to blame Mitt Romney even though this is wrong.

    The real nasty aspect of this is those cretins who put Mr Soptic up to this attack. They are preying on Joe’s misery and claiming no association with the attack.

    Dustin (73fead)

  108. speaking of disingenuous what was with that part where the multimillionaire millionaire-hating barry obama used to make pretendsies he was all multi-multi-multi-kabillionaire brush-the-capitalist-dirt-off jay-z?

    that was surreal

    please tell me food stamp never thought he was going home to put it to beyoncé lite in a j crew sweater

    bur his delusions are vast

    so very vast

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  109. “To hear the Obama campaign, this is a tale of greed: GST was a healthy, happy, quality steelmaker until Bain plundered its worth and stripped its 750 workers of their due. “It was like a vampire,” laments one former employee in the ad. “They came in and sucked the life out of us.”

    GST is a tragic tale, though in a different way. The real story of GST is that of a private-equity firm trying to spark some life into a uncompetitive, over-unionized industry. Bain’s crime here—if that’s what you call it—was giving a dying steel plant an unexpected eight-year lease on life.

    When Bain bought the Kansas City mill in 1993, steel was a scene of carnage. Global players were pouring out cheap products, and America’s high-cost steel plants couldn’t compete. The industry had lost 200,000 jobs in preceding years. In 1992 alone, the six largest U.S. steel mills had lost a combined $3 billion. Armco, the company Bain would buy the plant from, would lose $641 million in 1993………….”

    “The Kansas City plant had two product lines—high-carbon rods and grinding media (used in mining)—that it felt could give it a competitive edge. But it needed investment, and Armco was tapped out. Bain nonetheless saw some potential and in 1993 joined other investors to acquire it for $80 million. Management renamed it GS Technologies (which would become part of a larger GS Industries) and poured an additional $100 million into modernization.

    The strategy worked for a time. The market firmed up and GSI became a U.S. leader in steel rods. In 1994 it felt confident enough to distribute a dividend to investors. In both 1996 and 1997, GSI would realize $1 billion in revenue.

    And then came the tsunami. The late 1990s saw a new outpouring of cheap steel from elsewhere around the globe. The Asian financial crisis walloped the mining industry, cutting demand for GST products. The price of GST’s electricity and natural gas skyrocketed. The union dug in, refusing to make concessions. By April 1997, it was on strike, shooting bottle rockets at guards. Labor costs spiked, and by 1999 GSI was reporting $53 million in net losses.

    In 2001 it would become one of 31 steel companies that went bankrupt from 1993 to 2003. (Mr. Romney left Bain in 1999.) The steel crash was the economic drama du jour, with Congress railing about “dumping.”……….. ”

    “The bankruptcies were led by unionized companies that, like airlines and textiles and Detroit, had negotiated pay and benefits that helped drive their employers under. GST’s pension benefits would get passed on to the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., which in 2002 received $7.5 billion in claims from the steel industry alone. The PBGC covered GST’s basic pension payouts.

    The Obama ad doesn’t note that the broader company, GS Industries, employed 3,500 and that the Kansas City plant (with 750 workers) was the only one shuttered. Other plants were bought and operate today. Nor does it mention Bain’s other steel investment in the early 1990s, in an Indiana start-up called Steel Dynamics. The firm touts innovative technology and a nonunion workforce. It today reports $6.3 billion in revenue—25 times what it claimed in its 1996 IPO—and employs 6,000……”

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303360504577410573651845802.html

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  110. ABC GST baby you an me girl

    until Romney tumored you up but good

    cause this is thriller thriller night and no one’s gonna save you from the mormy beast about strike

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  111. oh crap that was really good but it was supposed to be about *to* strike

    mea culpa

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  112. Dustin, Joe Soptic is lying. He’s lying when he says his family lost health insurance when he was laid off. And he’s lying that she got sick shortly after he was laid off.

    How long are you going to give him carte blanche to lie and act despicably, Dustin, because he lost a loved one?

    He has no moral high ground here. Zero. Zip. Nada.

    Lots of people lose wives. Or husbands. Or children. They don’t do what Joe Soptic did.

    Perhaps you might consider the possibility that I’m speaking from exprerience, Dustin, when I ask you; how long do you think he gets a pass and can spew lies and venom in public after losing his wife in 2006? I say not one day.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  113. If Obama nationalizes the private sector and we have a Euroweenie socialist economy, we would never need to have any more layoffs or Unindicted Murder and Tax Evader Mitt Romney killing people with his Mormon Stare of Death.

    Amirite?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  114. what is this “if” mr. daley?

    romney’s spokeshooch just today extolled the virtues of command-economy helf-cares did she not?

    yup she did

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  115. I saw it on CNN!

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  116. Mr. Feets – That is just funked up.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  117. The problem for conservative’s claims for morality is this
    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/audience-tea-party-debate-cheers-leaving-uninsured-die-163216817.html

    A buyout is not a job. And what were the terms? Nice cutting job on the video. I wonder what else was in it. It’s from Democracy Now and that’s not exactly a pro Obama show.

    You’re not doing a very good job defending the rich.
    Obama’s problem is that he’s as tied to them as you are. Geithner’s his boy, or they’re both Wall St.’s bitches, so how can Obama be a socialist?
    I’m a socialist, and I know one when I see one.

    still sleeeeepy (b5f718)

  118. The bankruptcies were led by unionized companies that, like airlines and textiles and Detroit, had negotiated pay and benefits that helped drive their employers under.

    I didn’t need to read that, daleyrocks, to know the story. I’ve seen it played out before.

    And I didn’t need to read that to know Joe Soptic. I grew up with Joe Soptics. Union “workers” who were really welfare beneficiaries who thought it was burden enough that they had to show up at a certain playce for a certain number of hours a day to receive their welfare benefits, but obscene to suggest they actually put in an honest day’s work, too.

    Friends dads, all. Who liked to brag how they sabotaged the production line or deliberately put loose nuts and bolts inside body panels of the cars they had to build so they’d have rattles that would bug the crap out of the owner and that the repair shops would never be able to find.

    Then when people stopped buying their crap, and their former customers started buying Japanese and later Korean cars in droves they accused the people they used to like to torment of being “un-American” for buying foreign cars.

    Joe Soptic isn’t being used by anyone. This is who he was before his wife died. He was owed a lifetime of pay and benefits then, he figured, and he’s still owed it now.

    I saw a clip of Burton, the director of the SuperPAC that put Joe Soptic in this ad. He was defending this ad by saying that when Bain bought this steel plant they promised the workers that no matter what happened to the company they would have their health insurance coverage (I see their pensions were picked up by the PBGC).

    That’s insane. But I’m sure that’s what Joe Soptic believes. Because his pay and benefits were never, in his mind, compensation for work.

    They were something that someone “promised” him for the rest of his life.

    No one is playing on powerful emotions because his wife died to use him. His sense of entitlement comes shining through when he admits his wife still had insurance after he was laid off. And he’s not blaming her employer for dropping her coverage when she left her job.

    No, he’s blaming Bain for not giving him what someone “owes” him. That sort of sense of entitlement doesn’t just happen when you lose a spouse or a child.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  119. that was from back to where if a cop pulled you over and you weren’t wearing a seat belt you both just shared a frosty mug of schlitz and talked about foxy mamas

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  120. “I didn’t need to read that, daleyrocks, to know the story. I’ve seen it played out before.”

    Steve57 – I didn’t need to post it either because I’ve been through it as well, but there are people reading this blog who will not believe anything without a third party source.

    I’ve personally witnessed steel mills being demolished for scrap on the south shore of Lake Michigan, although the refractory brick from the blast furnaces was going to be carefully preserved and shipped to the far east.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  121. Mr. Feets – Sometimes you just gotta pick up the pieces and stop blaming other people for what happens in your life is what I think.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  122. omg I didn’t know “ohio players” is where the chili peppers got the love rollercoaster sample from

    no one tells me anything I have to learn it on amazon mp3 downloads

    here it is on the u toobz

    i bet you my lunch money it was there this whole time

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  123. Mr feets, you may be just a tad behind the times.

    Icy (c327b0)

  124. Mr. Feets – They will put some funk in your junk and your trunk.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  125. How long are you going to give him carte blanche to lie and act despicably, Dustin, because he lost a loved one?

    I simply said it’s hard to get angry at him. What’s he’s doing is still wrong, but he’s not the main villain here because his behavior is likely motivated by his grief and understandably irrational.

    I suspect someone channeled his own anger in a particular cynical direction, and that’s the party really worth looking at.

    After all, is Mr Soptic running for president? No. But the person running the campaign that is associated with this advertisement (though they deny the association) is. That’s where I’d direct my main criticism.

    Dustin (73fead)

  126. btw, decaf

    Dustin (73fead)

  127. I’m still processing this whole “robert earl keen” thing

    mercy

    I’m a need to go to walmart for a new journal

    and I’m sorry but randy travis if ur reading this please to put some clothes on

    the glory goes up to god and the blessings fall down on you

    give em sumpin to talk about on the way to luby’s

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  128. Obama murdered Border Patrol agent Brian Terry!

    Obama Administration originated Fast and Furious to put guns into the hands of Mexican drug runners.
    Mexican drug runners shot and killed Brian Terry with one of those guns.
    Therefore Obama murdered Brian Terry and continues to lie to Congress and the American people about it.

    This is a logical link much more substantial than Romney killing the Soptic woman with cancer.

    Ralph Gizzip (5ab3ea)

  129. I read the headline and assumed that this post was about Romney’s attack of the welfare reform that Romney himself supported as Massachusetts governor. Oh right. You aren’t upset by your own hypocrisy.

    tye (770315)

  130. #131

    When did Romney attack welfare reform? I must have missed that.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  131. Glenn Reynolds puts it succinctly: “It is becoming clear that Obama is not only intellectually, but also morally unfit to hold the office of President.”

    SPQR (26be8b)

  132. Gerald A, tye is misrepresenting the Obama administration’s gutting of welfare reform as being itself welfare reform. tye just repeats the long debunked lies of the Obama administration with all the skill of Jay Carney.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  133. Yeah well Romney supported it… before he was against it. Sound familiar? You attacked war hero John Kerry for a similar phrase…

    tye (770315)

  134. I know my question was rhetorical.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  135. Gerald – he didn’t attack welfare reform. He did criticize Obama ignoring the legislative process and changing the work component of welfare reform, something Obama has always opposed. The reforms that Romney supported as a Governor were the exact opposite of the waivers Obama will be granting, for a part of the law that explicitly rules out waivers. Shocka. Tye is lying. Again.

    JD (8b137f)

  136. Yeah well Romney supported it… before he was against it. Sound familiar? You attacked war hero John Kerry for a similar phrase…

    Comment by tye — 8/9/2012 @ 6:24 am

    You’re a creepy liar.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  137. Quoting Kerry was an attack.

    JD (8b137f)

  138. War heroes (D) aren’t war heroes (R).

    tye (770315)

  139. Dustin,

    Our friend Steve (#115, #120) said it best.

    Joe Soptic knows what he’s doing.

    Lots of people lost a loved one to cancer in 2006, but it doesn’t give any of them a license to use their “grief” as an excuse to be used as a political tool to destroy people with misappropriated blame.

    The family had health insurance thru his wife’s employer, even after he lost his job. Effectively, he said in the tv ad that when he lost his job, they had no health insurance.
    That’s a lie—and there’s no smiley face to put on that.

    After she lost her job, the family could have chosen to go on Medicaid. They didn’t want to go on the Democrats’ beloved Medicaid—and that’s not Mitt Romney’s fault.

    I’m sorry his wife died, but Joe Soptic still has an obligation to behave civilly within society. If everyone who experienced grief within the past six years behaved with a license to publicly defame other people, society would be a total mess.

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  140. It is so cute how tye wants to change the topic.

    JD (8b137f)

  141. tye, you can’t even cough up your talking points coherently. Romney wasn’t “for” it. Romney requested a state waiver for the work requirements which is different from HHS’ proposal to entirely abandon enforcement.

    You are a liar. And you plagiarize from other, equally incompetent liars.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  142. Oh sorry. Back on topic. No it is not the most disingenuous ad ever. That title goes to Romney attacking Obama on a policy he supported as governor (welfare topic previously discussed). His attacks on health care which was modeled after his own policy are pretty ridiculous too.

    tye (770315)

  143. You are a liar. And you plagiarize from other, equally incompetent liars.

    Oh, I doubt anyone is as incompetent as tye.

    Chuck Bartowski (3bccbd)

  144. Romney requested a state waiver for the work requirements

    Not only that, but it was an effort to strengthen, not obliterate

    JD (8b137f)

  145. this election is a referendum on obama, this mitt romney person really doesn’t figure in

    __ rape our economy more more more!

    __ please to stop the violent economy rape

    pick one

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  146. When pressed the newt could offer no proof

    tye (770315)

  147. _X_ please to stop the violent economy rape

    JD (8b137f)

  148. Tougher welfare standards weighed
    By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    January 25, 2005

    BOSTON — Welfare recipients with children as young as a year old would have to start working 20 hours a week to earn their benefits under a plan floated by Gov. Mitt Romney yesterday as part of his proposed budget.

    Welfare recipients with children 2 years old or younger are now exempt from the work requirement.

    Romney said he will recommend limiting that exemption to parents with children under age — and requiring all welfare recipients with children over 6 to work 30 hours a week. Recipients with children between the ages of 6 and 8 are now required to perform 24 hours of work.

    Welfare advocates criticized the plan, saying it punishes children and does little to help the poor find the kind of jobs they need to support their families.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  149. hmmm is what this thing makes you go:

    PepsiCo Inc (PEP) said on Thursday it has signed a distribution agreement to sell some of its drinks in Myanmar with Diamond Star Co Ltd, which has been doing business in the Southeast Asian country for nearly 50 years.

    [...]

    The United States has responded by easing some sanctions, starting with a decision last month to allow U.S. companies to invest in Myanmar and provide financial services there.

    PepsiCo, which last did business there in 1997, said its drinks are now available to consumers in parts of Myanmar and that availability will increase in the coming weeks.

    Rival Coca-Cola Co (KO) said in June that it planned to operate in Myanmar as soon as the U.S. government allowed it.

    you have to wonder if it’s an accident the slobbering obamawhores at pepsi have a leg up over coke in exploiting the opportunities offered by our new fascist dictator friends in burma

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  150. #150 is what pathologically lying Democrats like Tye are claiming is Romney’s request for an exemption from work requirements.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  151. Isn’t it time for someone to sign in as Leviticus to discuss how great Romney is and how much this particular ad was offensive? The day isn’t complete without an affirmation from the pet leftist.

    tye (770315)

  152. When pressed, internet troll and Obama shill, tye, could not tell the truth about anything.

    PCD (1d8b6d)

  153. why so surly Mr tye your boy is in the white house and it’s summertime! send the kids to a batman movie kick back on the porch and just enjoy living in a brutally raped hollowed out husk, maybe catch some lympics later and go through the coupon drawer to see if you have any for tasty mexican foozle

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  154. #153

    Now you want to talk about Leviticus out of the blue. Strange. When did Romney attack welfare reform?

    Gerald A (f26857)

  155. bogo tacos just flat-out taste better and you know it

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  156. Your clownish lying never, not for one moment, causes you to feel ashamed, or embarrassed, does it tye?

    JD (8b137f)

  157. JD, the troll is worried. Each day, he gets his little troll nose rubbed in the fact that his guy is a tawdry and dishonest Chicago pol who fooled a bunch of lefties.

    He feels stupid and has to lash out.

    I’m reminded of what Glenn Reynolds writes as the Left compares 2008 promises to 2012 reality: heeeey, rube!

    Not so smart after all, these progressives.

    Simon Jester (6d2011)

  158. hey rube
    don’t feel so sad
    your boy obama has made it bettererer
    the food stamps he made them flow like wine
    and the health cares are mandatory

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  159. Lots of people lost a loved one to cancer in 2006, but it doesn’t give any of them a license to use their “grief” as an excuse to be used as a political tool to destroy people with misappropriated blame.

    Elephant Stone and Steve, this is correct. What he’s doing is wrong. And I think you’re right that he knows it’s wrong, but is so angry that he doesn’t care. He has probably built Romney up into this rich boogeyman.

    Anyone who loses their job is going to feel some resentment. Certainly if it’s a layoff as a company is sold off or made efficient. That’s probably going to mean hard times. Of course this doesn’t mean it’s that layoff’s fault for everything bad that happens. The layoffee is the person responsible for his own life (And the timeline/details of this story show that the blame didn’t make sense anyway). But he’s angry and it builds for years and Romney is now on his way to being the most powerful person in the world so it’s time to strike back.

    That’s what Joe is really doing. He’s taking his one chance to strike back, and he’s punching back ‘twice as hard’, Chicago style, without being honest about the situation.

    The sad thing is, I’m sure this has only made him even more miserable. It’s not good for him, and the politicos who are putting him up to this are fully aware of that. I can’t help but find them far more reprehensible.

    Dustin (73fead)

  160. ___________________________________________

    Because not even the gutter snipes on MSNBC have the stomach to tolerate this.

    That illustrates the degree of just how truly unethical and flat-out incompetent Obama, his administration, and his circle of friends really are.

    It’s puzzling and a bit sickening that the guy now in the White House has received and still receives as much support as he’s gotten or is getting from a cross-section of the public. But that demonstrates why a society can so easily become corrupt and exhausted, socially, economically and ideologically. It explains why a Greece becomes a Greece, a Mexico becomes a Mexico, an Argentina becomes an Argentina, a France becomes a France, and a Venezuela becomes a Venezuela.

    Liberalism gone berserk.

    Mark (0644af)

  161. “Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.”

    Comment by still sleeeeepy — 8/8/2012 @ 2:41 pm

    The study and other similar ones all have a glaring methodological defect. So glaring that they’re completely useless:

    As in the previous incarnations, the researchers interviewed the uninsured only once — and never saw them again. A decade later, the researchers assumed the participants were still uninsured and, if they died in the interim, lack of insurance is blamed as one of the causes.

    Yet, like unemployment, uninsurance happens to many people for short periods of time. Most people who are uninsured regain insurance within one year. The authors of the study did not track what happened to the insurance status of the subjects over the decade examined, what medical care they received or even the causes of their deaths.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  162. Dustin, you’re soft in the head. Joe Soptic knows exactly what he’s doing and he’s doing it to feather his own nest. If he cared one iota about his wife he wouldn’t sully her memory by using her death to attack a man who wasn’t involved in any way shape or form.

    Soptic is behaving in the same way that idiot hate monger Adam Smith did at the Chick-fil-A drive up window.

    ropelight (9d3afc)

  163. That illustrates the degree of just how truly unethical and flat-out incompetent Obama, his administration, and his circle of friends really are.

    Yes. It’s so off the charts unfair it’s like something out of a Simpsons episode mocking politicians.

    They are desperate.

    Dustin (73fead)

  164. I’ve pretty much concluded that the ad was intended to shore up Obama’s quickly declining base. He’s in “heap big trouble” (as Elizabeth Warren might have said a while back).

    Libertarian Advocate (c660ae)

  165. I’m on the mailing list for democrat fundraising, for some reason, and there’s a consistent tone of ‘this is why we could lose’ (money, of course).

    They don’t seem to be very confident at this point.

    Dustin (73fead)

  166. If he cared one iota about his wife he wouldn’t sully her memory by using her death to attack a man who wasn’t involved in any way shape or form.

    maybe he’s getting paid

    these are dark and desperate times

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  167. Dustin,

    I’m not saying this in a contentious way, but it sounds (in your earlier post about this) a bit like you don’t expect Joe to behave civilly.
    Just because someone is allegedly “angry,” it does not let them off the hook for trying to defame or hurt other people years later.

    This is not a guy whose emotions are boiling over about something that happened five minutes ago.

    The job loss was over a decade ago.

    Lots of people have not only lost a loved one to cancer, but have also lost a job. Most of these people do not behave as Joe is behaving.

    Everyone else at the steel plant lost their job, too.

    I hate to use the cliche, ‘life goes on,’ but life does go on. At some point, Joe Soptic is responsible for finding a new job, or using all those roads and bridges and the internet in order to facillitate his own successful business venture.

    Here’s the other point…Joe watched the tv ad. He saw the way his situation was used. But we don’t hear him standing up and saying, “Hey wait, these Democrats are using me ! They’re lying about the timeline !”

    There’s zero reason for him to be angry at Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney was running the Olympics when the plant was closed, if I’m not mistaken.

    It sure looks like Joe Soptic is just a hardcore Democrat.

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  168. Romney? Romney? Bush broke an engine mount on my car, the fan went into the radiator, I had to replace the whole cooling system, and never could fix that oil seal leak.

    nk (875f57)

  169. I think you’re being very reasonable, Elephant Stone.

    My desire to go easy on Joe is out of sympathy and emotion. In other words, it isn’t fact based.

    At some point, Joe Soptic is responsible for finding a new job

    Absolutely. The other aspects of this, such as his wife’s insurance and Romneycare, make this detail a little less relevant, but in Joe’s version of events, this is the underlying issue.

    Yeah, it stinks when you lose your income and benefits. So you find a way to regain them. Spending years blaming the termination for the rest of your problems is a recipe for misery.

    Dustin (73fead)

  170. #163

    When I tried posting the link the software blocked it for some reason.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  171. Dustin, you’re soft in the head. Joe Soptic knows exactly what he’s doing and he’s doing it to feather his own nest. If he cared one iota about his wife he wouldn’t sully her memory by using her death to attack a man who wasn’t involved in any way shape or form.

    Sorry, but I’m not as angry at him as you are. There are enough people to be angry at.

    Dustin (73fead)

  172. I’m a Teamster baby. I have seen my parents going into a factory young and healthy and coming out old and sick.

    But whom should I believe? My mother, the Teamster, who said “God Bless Columbus who made America and gave people food to eat”?

    Or the Magical Kenyan parasite setting up his 105th golf game?

    nk (875f57)

  173. bogo tacos just flat-out taste better and you know it

    I don’t know anything about bogo tacos, but Tito’s Tacos were the best

    Chuck Bartowski (3bccbd)

  174. buy one get one Mr. Chuck!

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  175. Elephant Stone,

    Tell me you’re not getting union wages/benefits.

    nk (875f57)

  176. Tito’s tacos in Santa Monica. Yeppers.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  177. buy one get one Mr. Chuck!

    Figured that’s what you meant, was just trying to be funny :)

    Tito’s tacos in Santa Monica. Yeppers.

    Santa Monica? I don’t remember one there, but I remember one in Culver City, on Sepulveda just south of Washington.

    There was one in Anaheim at Beach & Ball, until about 1997. The location changed its name to “Tom’s Tacos”, I guess to cut down on the expense of replacing all the signs.

    Chuck Bartowski (3bccbd)

  178. Good point, CulverCity. I was working in Santa Monica during that era (just after the Cretaceous).

    SPQR (26be8b)

  179. From Brent Budowsky–Pundit’s Blog at The Hill:

    “This ad is not merely over the top. It is sickening. It is despicable. It is unworthy of a sitting president. It is unworthy of a candidate for president. It is unworthy even of the campaign from hell we are witnessing. It embarrasses me to be a Democrat that this is what our party offers to reelect a president after four years in office. The disgraceful behavior of certain Republicans is no excuse for an ad like this from Democrats.
    ….
    I have been a supporter of Priorities USA and urged large donors to offer their support. This ad is so far below even the minimal standards of a vile campaign in a poisoned politics of a corrupted system that I would propose that the president issue this public statement:

    This new ad represents the fecal remains of what emerges from the eastern end of a horse facing west after an unhealthy meal, and should be thrown in the garbage can, where it belongs.”

    elissa (e828cd)

  180. Democrat pundit Budowsky must be brainwashed by watching Faux news.

    elissa (e828cd)

  181. “This new ad represents the fecal remains of what emerges from the eastern end of a horse facing west after an unhealthy meal, and should be thrown in the garbage can, where it belongs.”

    elissa – IOW, standard Chicago fare.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  182. a mendoucheous twatwaffle.

    LOL, going you have to remember that one for posterity… :^D

    Smock Puppet, Like... Duh? (8e2a3d)

  183. The interesting thing about this ad, is how hard it is to find someone who didn’t get a mammogram and later came down with Stage IV breast cancer, who once had had health insurance but didn’t at a time when maybe they skipped a mammogram (if they actually would have taken) or didn’t see a doctor about a lump.

    It’s really hard to find people in this category, even if you have, what is it? – several thousand people to look through and interview who maybe lost their jobs in a way that can be at least distantly connected to Mitt Romney. (Well, maybe the union only had access to a few hundred, so it was a more limited sample)

    It’s really had to find someone like that without severely distorting the facts. (granted you have to have someone willing to make a campaign ad that links the candidate to something he’s not really linked to.)

    Sammy Finkelman (609c6a)

  184. Most Disingenuous Ad Ever?

    If so, I doubt if it will be for long.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  185. Dustin,

    There are literally millions of Americans who’ve lost their job many more years recently than did Joe Soptic.

    There are millions of Americans who have lost relatives or spouses to cancer in the time since Joe Soptic lost his wife.

    I bet there is an intersecting number of people (perhaps in the hundreds of thousands ?) who’ve lost a relative or spouse to cancer AND lost their job in the time since Joe Soptic lost his wife and lost his job.

    But there appears to be only one guy (Joe Soptic) who is doing what Joe Soptic is doing.

    My sympathy goes out to the other Americans who lost a job and lost a wife—yet maintain the composure to not go on tv to smear a good man who is running for President.

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  186. MD in Philly,

    Yeah, good point…it’s the most disingenous ad ever—but only until the Alinskyites re-load.

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  187. “I’m a Teamster baby. I have seen my parents going into a factory young and healthy and coming out old and sick.
    But whom should I believe? My mother, the Teamster, who said “God Bless Columbus who made America and gave people food to eat”?
    Or the Magical Kenyan parasite setting up his 105th golf game?”

    That’s the confusion of working class conservatism right there.
    Romney’s golf game is better than Obama’s.

    “I’m a Teamster baby. I have seen my parents going into a factory young and healthy and coming out old and sick.”

    And Romney is a factory owner.

    In the 90′s in Russia they had a joke. “Everything the communists said about communism was a lie. Everything the communists said about capitalism was true”

    Everything conservatives say about conservatism is a lie. Everything conservatives say about liberalism is true.

    But conservatives would rather be ripped off by a friendly con man than lectured by a condescending hypocritical doo-gooder.
    Even if the doo-gooder leaves more money in your pocket.

    And don’t lecture me on tax and spend. As Dick Cheney said: “Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter.”

    still sleeeeepy (b5f718)

  188. In response to Dustin’s #173 @8:22am, first you assume Joe Septic is so hurt and so angry over the loss of his wife that he’s somehow entitled to blame her untimely death on Mitt Romney, and now you assume that I’m angry at Septic because I don’t buy your manufactured excuse. Your initial position is severely undermined because of the context in which it surfaced, and the second is nothing but an adolescent knee-jerk taunt.

    Joe Septic made a political TV ad blaming Romney for his wife’s death rather than taking responsibility for his own neglect of her well-being. After all, he’s the one who promised to love and protect her.

    ropelight (9d3afc)

  189. But conservatives would rather be ripped off by a friendly con man than lectured by a condescending hypocritical doo-gooder.

    Even if the doo-gooder leaves more money in your pocket.

    It’s “do-gooder”, not “doo-gooder”.

    Gerald A (f26857)

  190. still sleeepy, misrepresenting Cheney’s quote matches the rest of your dishonesty.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  191. “There are literally millions of Americans who’ve lost their job many more years recently than did Joe Soptic.”

    Elephant Stone – If as Bill Burton laughably claimed during his 18 minute CNN segment the ad was just telling a story about Mitt Romney’s impact on people in small towns and not accusing Mitt Romney of murder, the ad remains misleading even on that ridiculous premise. The Kansas City plant was the only one of GST’s to permanently close as a result of the bankruptcy proceedings due to intransigent worker demands. The other plants were successfully sold and continued operating. Joe and his coworkers effectively put themselves out of work, but that is too honest for this type of ad and doesn’t serve the narrative.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  192. When Obama loads five tons, five times a week, and opts for overtime on Saturday and double-time on Sundays and holidays, so he can buy Tony Rezko’s lot at half-price ….

    But he did, didn’t he? He got gifts and campaign contributions.

    Go back to sleep, dwarf, and stay out of conversations about real workers.

    nk (875f57)

  193. Sleeeeeeepy – LOOK SOMETHING SHINY !!!!!!!!!!

    JD (e2af90)

  194. Although I disapprove of prostitution, I want whores to be paid for value given. What did Mayor Daley give Obama in exchange for his cinnamon ring?

    nk (875f57)

  195. In the 90′s in Russia they had a joke. “Everything the communists said about communism was a lie. Everything the communists said about capitalism was true”

    Everything conservatives say about conservatism is a lie. Everything conservatives say about liberalism is true.

    But conservatives would rather be ripped off by a friendly con man than lectured by a condescending hypocritical doo-gooder.
    Even if the doo-gooder leaves more money in your pocket.

    Well let’s see. The key claim communists made about communism was that it would raise the standard of living for the workers. Since that was clearly false and it made them worse off, it doesn’t seem to matter if “Everything the communists said about capitalism was true”.

    Of course it isn’t true that “Everything the communists said about capitalism was true” since I believe one key claim communists made was that it would collapse. Communism collapsed. I think most everything they said about capitalism was wrong.

    What do you think conservatives say about liberalism other than that its leaders are condescending hypocritical do-gooders?

    Gerald A (f26857)

  196. In the 90′s in Russia they had a joke. “Everything the communists said about communism was a lie. Everything the communists said about capitalism was true”

    Love them Russians. What a wonderful examplar of anything a human being would want to be.

    nk (875f57)

  197. When did the perfectly good word “propaganda” go out of favor? It’s seldom used any more even in cases where it would seem to be an appropriate descriptor for American leftist demagoguery. People alive during the cold war heard the shortcut phrase Soviet propaganda and knew exactly what it meant without further elaboration.

    elissa (e828cd)

  198. Chinese, too. And Arabs, top of the list.

    nk (875f57)

  199. Comment by Dustin — 8/8/2012 @ 8:18 pm

    Is it really Romney Ryan?

    Today the Wall Street Journal had an editorial endorsing the idea,

    Why Not Paul Ryan?

    but we don’t know yet.

    Wow. That’s a pretty decent consolation prize for folks of my stripe.

    There’s almost no downside. Mitt Romney is anyway going to get attacked on Medicare cuts, tax cuts and other budget issues. You might as well have the architect of the “Ryan plan” on the campaign trail and in the vice-presidential debate.This will prevent distortions, and even allow some changes to be made. This would wind up being a campaign mainly on preventing a too high pileup of debt without cutting the military. Maybe a little on not playing political games. Since the federal budget is about the only issue Mitt Romney is interested in, he might as well campaign on it. It would show a little honesty and conviction and clarity, which he needs. He needs to take a position on something, where he comes out as more right than his opponent. Not that Romney is so right on it, but Obama is horribly misleading, and wrong, and he’ll come out on top. Even if he has to struggle talking about the issue.

    Comment by Colonel Haiku — 8/8/2012 @ 8:28 pm

    Don’t forget you read it here first, Dustin.

    I think it was me, basing it on a Morning Jolt that referred to a Weekly Standard piece by Bill Kristol. Kristol said that a vice presidential candidate would likely be picked this afternoon or tomorrow, more likely today because that would give his pick a number of interviews on the Friday morning network TV shows.

    Morning Jolt also linked to a Micah Sifry, who said the thing to look at was the number of Wikipedia edits each potential vice presidential nominee had.

    Actually you can’t really be sure Romney will announce anything before his bus trip, and he may have thought he might be doing it now, but delayed his decision. The Vice-presidential nominee could also be presented in the middle of the bus trip, or right after, and the time now could be time for meeting with someone, phoning people and deciding.

    Sammy Finkelman (609c6a)

  200. Comment by ropelight — 8/9/2012 @ 9:22 am

    Joe Septic made a political TV ad blaming Romney for his wife’s death rather than taking responsibility for his own neglect of her well-being.

    He made that ad in May, at the same time he made an ad for the official Obama campaign that only talked about the plant closing.

    We have no idea if his wife missed a mammogram, or anything. mammograms can also not be read right. Mammograms are painful for women, too.

    Sammy Finkelman (609c6a)

  201. “We have no idea if his wife missed a mammogram, or anything. mammograms can also not be read right. Mammograms are painful for women, too.”

    Sammy – Which is why you made comment #185 about mammograms, right?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  202. 199. Comment by elissa — 8/9/2012 @ 9:46 am

    When did the perfectly good word “propaganda” go out of favor?

    In 1933, with the appointment of Josef Goebbels as Minister of Propaganda for Germany. (the word had previously been used by the Roman Catholic Church, I think, to describe missionary activity. Maybe also durin World War I? )

    As a derogatory word, its usage is mainly limited to totalitarian regimes, and even there people don’t want to use it, because to use it, you have to say the people doing it are evil (and lying) and persistent, and people are not so ready to do so.

    There’s almost no regime they are willing to classify that way, and it isn’t even used these days abut Iran or Al Qaeda. Maybe with Al Qaeda the don’t want to give it credit for having an ongoing, well financed operation. And Iran doesn’t do too much outreach to the outside world.

    Sammy Finkelman (609c6a)

  203. Comment by still sleeeeepy a blithering idiot — 8/9/2012 @ 9:20 am
    That’s the confusion of working class conservatism right there. Romney’s golf game is better than Obama’s.
    – Point? Is there a point? Most things about Romney are better than Obama.

    And Romney is a factory owner.
    – Really. He currently owns a factory? Which one?

    In the 90′s in Russia they had a joke. “Everything the communists said about communism was a lie. Everything the communists said about capitalism was true”
    – In the 2010′s everything the capitalists said about European Socialism has come true.

    Everything conservatives say about conservatism is a lie. Everything conservatives say about liberalism is true.
    – Well, look at you! Aren’t you the witty one.

    But conservatives would rather be ripped off by a friendly con man than lectured by a condescending hypocritical doo-gooder. Even if the doo-gooder leaves more money in your pocket.
    – Flat-out lie.

    And don’t lecture me on tax and spend. As Dick Cheney said: “Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter.”
    – Deficits DO matter. Always have, always will.

    Icy (f95ed9)

  204. Icy, still sleeepy knows he is misrepresenting that quote, Cheney meant that Reagan’s deficits did not hurt him politically.

    Of course those deficits were a small fraction of the Democrats drunken sailor spending style.

    SPQR (9bc364)

  205. It’s actually more dubious than that, those words come from O’Neil’s memoir, which really was what Ron Susskind had him say.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  206. SF: “We have no idea if his wife missed a mammogram, or anything. Mammograms can also not be read right. Mammograms are painful for women, too.”

    Comment by daleyrocks — 8/9/2012 @ 10:14 am

    Sammy – Which is why you made comment #185 about mammograms, right?

    I said: “The interesting thing about this ad, is how hard it is to find someone who didn’t get a mammogram and later came down with Stage IV breast cancer, who once had had health insurance but didn’t at a time when maybe they skipped a mammogram (if they actually would have taken ] [one) or didn’t see a doctor about a lump.

    Right. They are skipped for all kinds of reasons, and most of the time don’t reveal anything. That’s why radiologists get so used to pronouncing things OK.

    My mother had something – I don’t know what – in 1953 or 1954. My father said he would marry her anyway. Whatever it might have been, there was no problem, until in 1993 she was diagnosed with cancer. I think one year she skipped it because of the inconvenience or whatever, maybe some inconveince of scheduling it or rescheduling it, I have no idea, and another year – they looked back – there was something not detected.

    Insurance was not an issue – they had gold plated insurance – Medicare plus I think Plan H from Blue Cross MediGap insurance.

    (The only thing with more coverage was Plan J, which also covered drugs, which was not necessary since Montifiore Hospital in the Bronx used to make prescription drugs available at very low cost or free to people who saw doctors there. That stopped eventually when cost pressures got too high.

    Premiums, of course, have just continued to sky rocket. In 1999, it was about $500 per person per quarter.

    They experimented with Total Health in 1991, discovered there was some doctor approvals or limitations, it was an HMO – I think – and got put of it very quickly. They had to pay all back premiums to get reinstated

    Sammy Finkelman (609c6a)

  207. “Well let’s see. The key claim communists made about communism was that it would raise the standard of living for the workers.”

    That was one claim, and they made good on it. But the result of the leveling was a stifling bureaucracy and a life as grey as the sky.

    still sleeeeepy (b5f718)

  208. Comment by Gerald A — 8/9/2012 @ 9:27 am I

    It’s “do-gooder”, not “doo-gooder”.

    Freudian slip, maybe. He could have been thinking about voodoo (economics) or maybe something associated with dogs (when the word is repeated)

    Remember, still sleeeeepy said that everything conservatives say about liberalism is true, and that would include NOT in most cases leaving more money in your pocket in the long run.

    So voodoo-doo-doo-gooder is maybe correct.

    Sammy Finkelman (609c6a)

  209. Or maybe doo-gooder means that there would be all other kinds of other problems even if more money would be left in your pocket.

    Sammy Finkelman (609c6a)

  210. 189- don’t confuse them with actual facts about their deity. As far as they’re concerned everything Reagan said should be in the Bible…. but just like the actual Bible it may require some editing.

    tye (ad2a05)

  211. “I said: “The interesting thing about this ad….”

    Sammy – People can read what you said. Believe it or not comment 185 is still there, including your commentary about trying to find people who skipped mammograms who had some connection to Romney. Why you would jump on another commenter for raising the same issue baffles me.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  212. 206- what goes around comes around. See: “you didn’t build that.”

    tye (ad2a05)

  213. tye – Stop trying to distract us from the worship of the Obama Economic Miracle.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  214. 189- don’t confuse them with actual facts about their deity. As far as they’re concerned everything Reagan said should be in the Bible…. but just like the actual Bible it may require some editing.
    Comment by tye — 8/9/2012 @ 10:54 am

    – Remind me, has Reagan EVER been depicted, by an admirer, with a halo?

    Well, of course not . . . something about violating one of the commandments . . .

    Icy (f95ed9)

  215. Too easy icy.

    tye (ad2a05)

  216. But it’s different when righties do it….

    tye (ad2a05)

  217. Has tye said yet how he feels about Brent Budowsky’s rant against the cancer ad–that being the topic of this thread and all? Prolly not, huh?

    elissa (e828cd)

  218. I’m still trying to picture in my mind the joint Chuck mentioned at Beach and Ball. It’s been 16 years since I lived in Anaheim and terrorized the city council.

    Maybe I’m having trouble picturing it because my favorite places were Fuddruckers, Two Guys in that plaza north and west of City Hall, PoFolks, and Chili’s on Valley View.

    PCD (1d8b6d)

  219. Too easy icy.
    Comment by tye — 8/9/2012 @ 12:06 pm

    – And your proof that that image was made and/or posted by a conservative admirer of Reagan is WHAT?

    Icy (f95ed9)

  220. 219- actually I did. Your lazy behind could have read through the thread first, but complaining seems easiest… especially since nobody here would actually hold a fellow wing nut accountable for their mandydouchtery conewaffle behavior.

    [Released from moderation.]

    tye (ad2a05)

  221. I agree with elissa. Little trolly keeps changing the subject. I’m much more interested in his defending the Lightbringer’s dishonest attack ad. Not by the childish “other people do it,” but holding the President to his campaign promises.

    Keep hammering the trolls with that: what about those 2008 promises?

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  222. I’m still trying to picture in my mind the joint Chuck mentioned at Beach and Ball. It’s been 16 years since I lived in Anaheim and terrorized the city council.

    In the mid-1980s, on the southwest corner of Beach & Ball, there was a little strip mall that included a Shiatsu place, a tattoo parlor, Labate’s Chess Centre, and a little Mexican fast-food place that later became Tito’s Tacos. I remember that particular Tito’s changed hands in the late 1990s and became Tom’s Tacos.

    Labate’s isn’t there anymore, but the last time I visited family in OC, the other shops in that strip mall were still there.

    Chuck Bartowski (3bccbd)

  223. 185. 208.

    I listened a bit to the Sean Hannity show earlier. He played a bit of the conference call that Joe Spotewas inclued in by the Obama campaighn.

    Sammy Finkelman (609c6a)

  224. Joe Soptic. His wife died of lung cancer, not breast cancer, like I had assumed. There is no screening test for lung cancer. His complaint the time was not that she died, but that he had been forced to put her in the county hospital.

    These are second rate, as everyone knows, compared to the “voluntary” hospitals, used by people with standard insurance..

    It’s more a complaint about the quality of the nursing care or the food, or the privacy, or the attention, or the quality of the doctors (or possibly mistakes??) than anything else.

    Sammy Finkelman (609c6a)

  225. I know two people who died of lung cancer. Neither of them smoked. They did last awhile, so possibly it could be said people in better hospitals get better treatment and better results.

    Sammy Finkelman (609c6a)

  226. 213. I thought there was maybe some (half-baked) logic to the ad.

    So what I said was that what the ad showed was that it was very hard to find a circumstance where it could be claimed that someone lost their life because they lost their health insurance and the best they could do was this case which couldn’t fit without distorting the facts.

    But there”s actually no way to make that case at all in this case.

    Joe Soptec’s wife died of lung cancer, and his original complaint had been that he had been forced to use the county hospital. That was his only complaint about his loss of the insurance he had once had.

    I think people worked on him, and rewrote statements for him, getting him to agree to say it, and gradually made it “better” and “better”

    Of course he had to know all along that it was unfair even to blame Romney for closing the plant. And to extend the argument that that proved Romney, as president, wouldn’t care about how people were affected by his decisions (unlike Obama, presumably) and he’d let people lose all kinds of things and be affected adversely. And it didn’t go into the economics of that plant – whether – what ? local ownership would have ept it going?

    Sammy Finkelman (609c6a)

  227. They did last awhile, so possibly it could be said people in better hospitals get better treatment and better results.

    They last as long as the insurance pays. Want to live long in a hospital? Have Medicare.

    nk (875f57)

  228. After reading BarackObama.com, I think Mr. Soptic and his wife lived in Kansas City MO where GST Steel was located. I assume that’s where she received her medical care. My understanding of the ad is Romney is to blame for Mrs. Soptic’s death because they couldn’t afford medical care — although Mr. Soptic won’t comment on whether he thinks Romney is to blame.

    Theoretically, what level of care might someone without insurance have in Kansas City today?

    One of the hospitals that provides indigent care is St. Luke’s Hospital of Kansas City. The US News Best Hospitals report lists St. Luke’s as tied for the second best hospital in Kansas City. In addition, the highest ranked hospital in Kansas City is the University of Kansas Hospital, a teaching hospital that offers a financial assistance program for indigent patients and patients of limited means.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  229. The ad is embedded on the Rush Limbaugh web page here:

    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/08/09/have_we_ever_seen_anything_as_disgusting_as_the_romney_killed_my_wife_ad

    It’s 1 minute and 3 seconds and right under the words “They’re perfectly fine.”

    Listening to it closely, I think Joe Soptic’s words were edited after he recorded them.

    Notice the screen goes blank right before we hear: “a short time afterward my wife became ill”

    at 19 and 20 seconds he says “a” “a” “a” three times.

    I think maybe the last time did not immediately follow the first two.

    There’s just too much of a pause between the second and the third “a”

    This whole ad of leaving facts out, and hoping will fill in the blanks with things that are manifestedly not true.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  230. “They did last awhile, so possibly it could be said people in better hospitals get better treatment and better results.”

    Comment by nk — 8/9/2012 @ 2:43 pm

    They last as long as the insurance pays. Want to live long in a hospital? Have Medicare.

    that also maybe but I saw them outside of the hospital. I think one of them had more than one operation.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  231. Gateway pundit has an update that Soptic turned down a buy-out offer, and opted out of another chance at health insurance with a subsequent employer.

    In related news, Psaki admitted the Obama campaign was aware of this individual’s story. Said admission is a tacit acknowledgement they lied yesterday. Today’s admission was an oops you caught me lying oops sorry moment. And not even by Cutter, an underling. Cutter went into hiding. Prolly trying to find a new way to accuse someone of a felony.

    JD (e2af90)

  232. Comment by daleyrocks — 8/9/2012 @ 10:56 am

    including your commentary about trying to find people who skipped mammograms who had some connection to Romney.

    That’s what I had thought they had been doing.

    Now in the ad Joe Soptec doesn’t say – or the portion of what he saidthat’s in the ad doesn’t say, what she died of.

    He does say that maybe she had been trying to hide how sick she was because they couldn’t afford insurance. And taht she lasted 22 days after she finally was admitted toi a hiospital

    I just recall, I know (or know of really) a third person who died of lung cancer. this year. He did smoke. A lot.

    He left his wife or she didn’t want him to stay. and she wass living on disability (shewas an alcoholic had used drugs and everything. both together>

    Well last spring he moved back in, and then Social security wanted to take back money ion groiunds he had supported her. The thing he had nio permanent address. He maybe lived with a grilfriend. Also lived on site wioth someone from the Mafia for whom he acted as a bodyguard, I heard. Her sister had wanted her tio officially separate but she had not wnated to. Social Security would not accept any evidenmce form neighbors that he hadn’t actually lived there for years and they docked her and continue to dock her 10% I think.

    Why you would jump on another commenter for raising the same issue baffles me.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  233. This person didn’t last years, but he wasn’t in a voluntary hospital.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  234. BarackObama.com claims this:

    GST Steel: Bankruptcy and bailouts

    Kansas City’s GST Steel was a successful company that had been making steel rods for 105 years when Mitt Romney and his partners took control in 1993. They cut corners and extracted profit from the business at every turn, placing it deeply in debt. When the company eventually declared bankruptcy, workers were denied their full pensions and health insurance, and the federal government was forced to step in and bail out the pension fund.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  235. JD–I had not fully realized how smarmy Cutter is until this imbroglio. I’m not just talking about her lying and evasion either. The gosh awful arrogant fake smile, too–on even when it’s poison she’s spitting through those lips.

    I’m starting to think someone is going to have to be thrown under the bus now that the mainstream media and some prominent Dems are on the case. It should be Cutter since she’s the one caught in the big lie, but I’ll probably be Burton because he has shown how incompetent and slow on his feet he is on talk shows when there’s a crisis.

    elissa (e828cd)

  236. There’s a kind of lung cancer (small cell?) that’s very aggressive, six months from onset to death. Yul Brynner died from it.

    nk (875f57)

  237. Cutter went into hiding. Prolly trying to find a new way to accuse someone of a felony.
    Comment by JD — 8/9/2012 @ 3:43 pm

    Or find a good lawyer to defend her from one. As noted in Comment by Steve57 — 8/8/2012 @ 1:26 pm, there is a recording of a conference call that includes Cutter herself and the man in question.

    I expect there is some amount of communication between a superpac and a nominee, even if only vague and several people removed from the top, but outright lying about it when there is a recording that she did herself…

    Good thing her boss is a friend of Eric Holder.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  238. Elissa – it won’t be Cutter, the whole BS war on women meme would be shot then.

    JD (e2af90)

  239. ==has shown how incompetent and slow on his feet he is on talk shows when there’s a crisis.==

    Of course Debbie Wasserman Schultz is still around with the same hoof in mouth disease, isn’t she?

    elissa (e828cd)

  240. JD–now we know why Carnie got the White House press secretary job when Gibbsie left. Burton, his assistant had been angling for the promotion. Can you imagine how awful they must have thought Burton was if they convinced themselves that Carnie is better?

    elissa (e828cd)

  241. elissa ! I am *shocked*, I tell you !

    That a lady of distinction such as yourself would accuse Ms Wasserman-Schulz of bovinating !

    (grin)

    Alasdair (81fcf1)

  242. I’m not an oncologist, but IIRC lung cancer is generally (not 100%) divided into small cell and large cell. Small cell especially can metastasize when the primary is relatively small and without symptoms- hence screening CXR are of little benefit- by the time it is on the xray it may already be too late to cure it.

    Lung cancer can often show up when a relatively small tumor blocks off some of the air passages, allowing for a pneumonia to develop. Often with all of the inflammation the cancer is not clearly seen until some time later when the cough persists or the pneumonia fails to get better.

    Squamous cell cancer, as far as I know, is more typical in the mouth, pharynx, and larynx.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  243. someone is going to have to be thrown under the bus

    How big is the bus???

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  244. Rich Galen wrote: http://www.mullings.com/ (with time link changes to laest column. this is the permanent link: http://www.mullings.com/08-09-12.htm

    Priorities USA has not, to my knowledge, spent a dime putting this ad on any cable station, much less a broadcast outlet. It is all in the media and in the close circle of political chatter that it has gotten all the attention.

    They want the controversy??

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  245. Also:

    According to the Washington Post here’s what really happened.

    – Bain bought the steel company in 1993. However, it had already gone from 4,500 workers in 1970 to about 1,500 workers in 1983. So, 10 years before Bain bought it, the company was in distress

    – In 1997 the union of which Soptic was a member, went on strike over personal benefits.

    – In 2001, with high debt, high electricity prices, and high natural gas prices the company declared bankruptcy as did “more than two dozen steel companies during that period.”

    – By that time Romney was not actively managing operations at Bain Capital.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  246. On the subject of losing benefits:

    http://www.therightscoop.com/screwed-delphi-employee-speaks-out-on-fox-news/

    But, of course, it can’t be true on Fox News, right?

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  247. Thanks, MD. I am especially shameless when lecturing about medicine. You should have seen me yesterday, at my ophthalmologist’s, showing off my C3F8 bubble to two very young and pretty medical students. I almost had them feeling the scar on my skull from the brain surgery when the real doctors walked in. ;)

    nk (875f57)

  248. In response to Dustin’s #173 @8:22am, first you assume Joe Septic is so hurt and so angry over the loss of his wife that he’s somehow entitled to blame her untimely death on Mitt Romney, and now you assume that I’m angry at Septic because I don’t buy your manufactured excuse. Your initial position is severely undermined because of the context in which it surfaced, and the second is nothing but an adolescent knee-jerk taunt.

    Ropelight, I repeatedly said that Joe was wrong. Where did I say he was entitled? I just said I reserved most of my anger to the politicos involved and that Joe is being irrational but I’m not as angry with him.

    You are the one doing the assuming, not me. In fact, you’re basically just putting words in my mouth that my actual words directly contradicted.

    I’m not as angry at this guy as you are. I think what he did was wrong, but I am more appalled at Obama’s campaign (which I view as associated with this attack even if they claim otherwise).

    Dustin (73fead)

  249. Sorry, but I’m not as angry at him as you are. There are enough people to be angry at.

    I appreciate the recommendation to switch to decaf, Dustin. I probably should. But if I don’t, and I end up getting heart disease I guess I’ll just blame Mitt Romney. Or Bush.

    Seriously, though, perhaps you find it hard to get angry at him is because you haven’t walked in his shoes.

    I believe that’s the expression. Well, his shoes are store bought and he’s not the only one that wears his size and lots of people have walked in them. Perhaps if you had, you’d find it easier to get angry at him.

    Let’s put it this way. There are many parents who have lost sons and daughters Iraq and Afghanistan.

    There is only one Cindy Sheehan.

    Even if you don’t agree with her politics, you might be willing to write off her awful behavior as just a mother working out her grief. And if you haven’t walked in her shoes, you can’t judge her.

    What about those other parents, Dustin? They’ve walked in her shoes. How are they supposed to feel about her essentially calling their sons and daughters, whom they believe made a noble choice as adults and a noble sacrifice, dupes and fools exploited by the Bush/Cheney regime? Who is more likely to be angry at Cindy Sheehan than someone whose child also was killed, like Army Specialist Casey Sheehan, in the service of their country?

    It is no insult to the memory of Casey Sheehan to point out that the general consensus among those who’ve lost their own sons and daughters is that some parents embarrass their children, even after they are dead. It is no insult to point out that some husbands embarrass their wives after they are dead, too.

    Adversity reveals character, Dustin, it doesn’t form it. Joe Soptic can’t use his wife’s death as an excuse for what this despicable commercial says about his.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  250. btw, by “initial” comment on this ad called it nasty and shameful. Those who say otherwise are dishonest.

    Dustin (73fead)

  251. “Why you would jump on another commenter for raising the same issue baffles me.”

    Sammy – Do you mean after you gas on in a comment speculating about how tough it was for the Obama campaign to find somebody from the factory who skipped a mammogram to film a commercial and then proceed to caution another commenter that we don’t know if she actually skipped a mammogram?

    What part is baffling?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  252. I appreciate the recommendation to switch to decaf, Dustin

    I was also talking about myself with that one.

    Even if you don’t agree with her politics, you might be willing to write off her awful behavior as just a mother working out her grief

    And to be honest, I do write off much of her irrational and unfair behavior because her irrational, bitter, ugly behavior stemmed from her loss.

    Adversity reveals character, Dustin, it doesn’t form it.

    I think this is a great point. Just because Joe or Cindy faced something very painful doesn’t mean they are great people. It doesn’t mean they get to do wrong things. And I think Joe’s ad was shameful and he knows it is dishonest and unfair.

    But I just can’t summon that much anger for him. He’s in a pathetic position, just like Cindy is, in my book. Even though many have correctly noted that they are really disgracing and using the memories of their loved ones, I think people can be like that when they are in enough pain. It can lead people in the wrong direction.

    I hope that if I’m ever in that kind of pain, I am not coaxed further down the road by ghouls such as the politicos who scripted this awful ad. For me, the outrage for them is just so much more than it is for Joe.

    Dustin (73fead)

  253. 15 Yard Penalty On Goal Post Shift.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  254. Not you Dustin

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  255. ;)

    Dustin (73fead)

  256. I hope that if I’m ever in that kind of pain

    Bad news, friend Dustin. You will be. It’s a fact of life.

    It’s not that I wish that upon you. It’s just that wishing won’t make the inevitable go away.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  257. Soptic is obviously an Obama supporter who is willing to appear on camera to help Obama and hurt Romney, but it’s not clear to me how much he knew about this particular ad. for instance, it’s been reported that Soptic would not comment on whether Romney is to blame for his first wife’s death. In addition, I’ve seen speculation that this ad was shot at the same time as an earlier ad by the Obama campaign. This excerpt from the first link may support that claim:

    Soptic said Priorities USA, the super PAC supporting Obama, contacted him about a week ago to alert him to the latest ad, which was partially shot in his home and at the union hall. In it, he talks about the loss of his wife of 30 years.

    It’s not much of a leap to wonder if Soptic’s original interview has been edited to fit a new, slightly different narrative.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  258. Maybe it’s a coincidence that CNN chose to use this headline (emphasis supplied):

    Ad linking Mitt Romney to woman’s death continues to dog Obama campaign

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  259. Bad news, friend Dustin. You will be. It’s a fact of life.

    Let’s hope I remember to handle it with more honor than Joe or Cindy.

    But one important thing I guess I’ve failed to explain: Cindy and Joe aren’t running for president. They are being lame people, but Obama and his associates want to run the country.

    That’s where I’m coming from. People who want that much power should value honor and integrity. Not merely as personal virtues, but because they are actual safeguards of tremendous importance if we’re to avoid problems like Fast and Furious (one of many examples).

    Dustin (73fead)

  260. “Class “A” Bullsh*tter… serial mendoucheous ne’er do-well… Destroyer of nations and “economays”… sh*theel community 0rganizer… Barack 0bama is ALL of this and much more.”

    I am Colonel Haiku and I approve this message.

    Colonel Haiku (0a23ec)

  261. Comment by nk — 8/9/2012 @ 5:07 pm

    In medical school, reportedly a patient asked a female med student if she wanted to see how his inflatable penile prosthesis worked, she said no thank you, but I’m not sure if those were the exact words she used.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  262. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opIL3Yt0Un8 … MD in Philly

    Colonel Haiku (0a23ec)

  263. What’s so funny about peace, love, and understanding was good. Between a computer with 256 MB RAM and an older/slower DSL connection, the link doesn’t stream well…which I think is probably an OK thing.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  264. Dustin @ 262.

    I have no doubt you would handle things better.

    That wasn’t what I was driving at.

    I am suggesting that even if nothing in your experience has prepared you to be as angry at Joe Soptic as some other critics, that doesn’t mean he the anger is undeserved.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  265. Or out of line.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  266. The only thing we enlarged was my pupil. ;)

    nk (875f57)

  267. oh yeah, I know you weren’t intending any insults.

    Dustin (73fead)

  268. Older Costello stuff was… awesome! Too bad his politics suck, but no surprise there.

    Interesting connection, though… back in the day, Elvis Costello called Ray Charles (I’m paraphrasing) an old, blind n_____r. Singer Bonnie Bramlett speculated that he must have a pretty small pecker to be that mean.

    Colonel Haiku (0a23ec)

  269. As long as we’re doing musical selection, this from his better half;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr8xDSPjII8

    narciso (ee31f1)

  270. I liked him, too, in the tour with the white blind Ray, Springsteen, et al.

    nk (875f57)

  271. Is it me, or is Obama’s speeches getting dumber and dumber, most recently with this nonsense about wanting to do to all of US manufacturing what he did with automakers

    SPQR (26be8b)

  272. He’s spinning a failure into a brag. They’re desperate. What can the zero really hang his hat on except a golf club?

    nk (875f57)

  273. nk, his attempt to spin a failure into a success only makes him look like an utter idiot. I know of a lot of otherwise non-political people who still won’t buy GM cars.

    On a lighter note, Treacher is still having fun with the meme he started on Obama.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  274. oh yeah, I know you weren’t intending any insults.

    Comment by Dustin — 8/9/2012 @ 6:44 pm

    If this was aimed at me then all I can say is that I really meant something other than insults.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  275. “I am suggesting that even if nothing in your experience has prepared you to be as angry at Joe Soptic as some other critics, that doesn’t mean he the anger is undeserved.”

    Steve57 – Personally, I feel your decision to compare the death of Joe Soptic’s wife to that of Casey Sheehan or any other member of the military voluntarily protecting this country was disgusting, cheap, and out of line. Please choose better analogies that don’t cheapen the sacrifices of our military.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  276. I still have my ’87 Cutlass. My father’s Chevy Biscayne lasted twenty-three years and then some kids who were renting our garage put the engine in a Blazer. What happened to that company?

    nk (875f57)

  277. Comment by SPQR — 8/9/2012 @ 7:18 pm
    AD and I already decided Obama was trying to catch up with Biden for the most ridiculous comments.

    Comment by nk — 8/9/2012 @ 7:12 pm
    That was worth waiting the download. What a bunch of talent on one stage.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  278. My first car was a 1972 Cutlass. Great car.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  279. May Obama was inspired watching the Olympics in London by JK Rowling and remembering what success she had making up stories one after another.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  280. Steve57 – Personally, I feel your decision to compare the death of Joe Soptic’s wife to that of Casey Sheehan or any other member of the military voluntarily protecting this country was disgusting, cheap, and out of line. Please choose better analogies that don’t cheapen the sacrifices of our military.

    Please feel free to choose freely. And pay for it.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  281. May Maybe

    We had a long line of Impalas and Caprices in my family until they stopped making ‘em (old style, family car size when families had kids).

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  282. Don’t worry, SPQR and nk. Soon, some media flacks (flakes?) will be by to explain what the President really meant. And we are all racist for not understanding that his words mean something different than we interpreted.

    I was feeling a little low today, and nk, you made me laugh. Thanks for that. I was recently in Madison, Wisconsin, and saw something funny that might make you chuckle.

    A very hot day, and the Farmers’ Market was packed all along State Street. I took refuge inside the beautiful Capitol building, which was delightfully cool. Two guys in their 50s faced Governor Walker’s office (up one floor), and began to sing “We Shall Overcome”

    The rotunda was crowded with people trying to stay out of the heat, and everyone politely listened.

    Finally, a couple of people behind me murmured the following: “It’s nice to hear those boys sing and all, but they had two chances to overcome, and were overcome themselves at the ballot box.”

    So there may be hope.

    Simon Jester (67f410)

  283. I mean politically.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  284. nk, I very recently drove an ’87 Cutlass (a 442). It’s still in the family.

    Small world!

    If this was aimed at me then all I can say is that I really meant something other than insults.

    Comment by Steve57

    It was aimed at you, and not sarcastically. You’ve been respectful and thoughtful in a disagreement and it’s appreciated.

    Dustin (73fead)

  285. Comment by Simon Jester — 8/9/2012 @ 7:37 pm

    Ah, yes. Old hippies never die, they just congregate in Madison (maybe Austin or Berkeley in winter).

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  286. That was my point, MD: there were lots of people, young and old, who just weren’t buying it.

    And there was one area of the Farmers’ Market I wanted to call “Conspiracy Row”: folks afraid of drones, contrail fans, 9-11 truthers…all next to each other.

    Simon Jester (67f410)

  287. Simon Jester,

    This begs the the question, exactly what is it they are determined to overcome? They freely used the capitol rotunda to either annoy or entertain tourists, who in turn came to take in Madison’s historical building, not necessarily be serenaded with others’ gripes; and they were subsequently neither rousted nor arrested. The election is over, the people spoke, power to the people. Isn’t that what it’s all about?

    Dana (292dcf)

  288. folks afraid of drones,
    Comment by Simon Jester — 8/9/2012 @ 7:41 pm

    FWIW while we’re doing free association- hewitt had some fellow on the other night, I guess an action/thriller writer, who claims that if all of the various agencies and companies that want to put a drone in the air get approval from the FAA we’re talking like 30,000 of them

    G’ night

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  289. Comment by Dana — 8/9/2012 @ 7:44 pm

    Power to the people only when it’s your people in power, and the not-so-silent minority say Walker isn’t one of their people.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  290. Probably Brad Thor, who seems to mined a lot of his new material for ‘Black List’

    narciso (ee31f1)

  291. Our “adopted” son went to medical school at Madison. We stayed at the Best Western when we visited him, so I picture exactly what you relate, Simon.

    nk (875f57)

  292. you’re right, narciso, that was the name of the book. Apparently there are a ton of alphabet soup agencies listed, and Thor said they all exist as given in the book, except 3 whose names have been changed (probably to protect himself)

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  293. The election is over, the people spoke, power to the people. Isn’t that what it’s all about?

    Comment by Dana — 8/9/2012

    It’s not about democracy. They aren’t democratic.

    It’s not over until they win, according to WI’s Feingold. That the state wants Walker and reform is beside the point.

    Dustin (73fead)

  294. Comment by nk — 8/9/2012 @ 7:50 pm

    Dad!!!

    Oh, wait, not me. When was that, nk?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  295. Comment by Dustin — 8/9/2012 @ 7:51 pm

    I believe it’s what they call “participatory democracy”, in other words, the bigger mob wins the vote.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  296. Power to the people only when it’s your people in power, and the not-so-silent minority say Walker isn’t one of their people.

    Then what you’re saying is that power of the people is not equal opportunity, but rather discriminatory as well as intolerant and narrow-minded. Yep, that sounds about right.

    Dana (292dcf)

  297. Dustin, I was already a lawyer, so I opted for silver on gray instead of the 442 paint job, but I do have the 307 V-8, Hurst shifter, low rear-end ratio, and the pretty steel wheels that need to be reinflated once a week.

    nk (875f57)

  298. I wanted the Chevy 305 engine but you can’t have everything.

    nk (875f57)

  299. Dana, I think it is like the not-so-funny joke.

    One man, one vote. Once.

    Simon Jester (67f410)

  300. I was feeling a little low today, and nk, you made me laugh.

    I took a cab to my eye-doctor, yesterday. I started a joke by saying that the reason doctors make you sit for so long in their waiting room is because time cures all ills. We then agreed that sleep and a light heart are good medicine, too.

    nk (875f57)

  301. I opted for silver on gray instead of the 442 paint job, but I do have the 307 V-8, Hurst shifter, low rear-end ratio, and the pretty steel wheels that need to be reinflated once a week.

    Comment by nk —

    That sounds like a great car. I can’t believe they got rid of the best make GM had.

    Dustin (73fead)

  302. Some ouzo doesn’t hurt, either.

    Simon Jester (67f410)

  303. A 1964 Pontiac GTO I bought in teh Summer of 1971… that was my first car… then after I got sick of buying gas, a ’68 6 cylinder Ford Falcon… and then after I got sick of the Falcon, a ’68 Chevy Nova w/the 307, a 4-speed and a bench seat… and then I bought a brand new ’74 Fiat X1/9… I loved that car and only sold it cuz we were starting a family and I needed to be practical.

    Colonel Haiku (92344b)

  304. If you were here, Dustin, you would slap me in the face. In 1991, when I got out of my bachelor’s apartment and moved in with a real girl, in a fancy place, my father bought me a 1992 Caprice. My “real girl”, who became my favorite wife, did not like it.
    (Why, I don’t know. Any man, or god, who says he knows women is a liar.) I shipped it to my baby brother in New York. He still has it.

    nk (875f57)

  305. Some ouzo doesn’t hurt, either.

    Comment by Simon Jester — 8/9/2012 @ 8:05 pm

    Seldom. Remeron, Ativan, and codeine, these days, I’m afraid. And never all at once.

    nk (875f57)

  306. #308… suhweet, Dustin! Those wheels alone are worth approx $800 each.

    Colonel Haiku (92344b)

  307. “Please feel free to choose freely. And pay for it.”

    Steve57 – Analogies are supposed to be similar. Yours wasn’t, which was why it was offensive. Joe Soptic’s wife and Casey Sheehan have nothing in common. Try again.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  308. When was that, nk?

    Comment by MD in Philly — 8/9/2012 @ 7:51 pm

    He graduated two years ago (or was it three). He’s doing OB/GYN at Loyola, in Maywood, Illinois, now.

    nk (875f57)

  309. My godson, a different kid, lived in Oak Creek, and then he moved to Green Bay where his mother (ID) was the public health doctor or something like that. I have traveled over more of Wisconsin than of Illinois.

    nk (875f57)

  310. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!

    The Emperor (6a05c3)

  311. The Chimperor approves of vile lies.

    JD (e2af90)

  312. Has Romney and his camp run a lie-less campaign? The truth, JD?

    The Emperor (6a05c3)

  313. Typical trollery. Has an official Romney ad accused Obama of felonies? Has a Republican, 3rd in line for the Presidency, stood on the floor of the Senate and accused a candidate of felonies, and refused to back up the accusation?

    You are trying to imply all politics is nasty. It is, but your guys have crossed a line. Own it.

    Simon Jester (67f410)

  314. Has Romney and his camp run a lie-less campaign? The truth, JD?

    Comment by The Emperor

    Whenever a democrat is caught red handed doing something absolutely wrong, it’s only a matter of time before a democrat projects the charge in a vague and unconvincing manner.

    Pathetic and slow in this case.

    What we know is that Obama’s campaign, run by an Obama administration veteran, with apparent association with the Obama campaign (a crime, apparently), was lying and smearing in a way that is extreme and unusual.

    You can’t just sigh that opinions from Romney you didn’t like are also “lies” or accuse him of doing something without actually showing it (because you used a question mark).

    Or rather, you can, but it looks like a defense of the indefensible.

    Dustin (73fead)

  315. So far the Obama campaign’s claims that Romney ads are false have themselves been frivolous, such as when the Romney campaign was attacked for ads that merely ran the President’s own words.

    Its been pretty comical to see how the Obama campaign has objected to ads that straight up played video of Obama.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  316. Evidently there is another couple whose lives Romney ruined … he made them homeowners.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  317. @Dustin. No it’s more like saying what gives the Romney campaign moral right to accuse anyone of lying when they have in many instances been caught in lies? Why are you all of a sudden looking so righteous and angry? It’s what they have been doing mostly. By them I mean both parties.

    The Emperor (6a05c3)

  318. The Emperor, then given how many lies we’ve caught you in, you’ll do the right thing and disappear? For the morality. Immediately. Right?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  319. That’s the heat in the kitchen; take it or leave the kitchen! Whining ain’t gonna cut it.

    The Emperor (6a05c3)

  320. But whining is all that Obama does, The Emperor. Whine about how we don’t appreciate how his economic plan “worked”.

    The kitchen that needs to be vacated is the White House – by Obama.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  321. How many lies have you caught me in, SPQR? State them here and now or you are the liar here. You have one minute….

    The Emperor (6a05c3)

  322. Whine about how we don’t appreciate how his economic plan “worked”.

    Every industry should be begging Obama to treat it like he did the auto industry. It’s for our own good. Poor Obama doesn’t get the credit he deserves.

    Unemployment isn’t problem if the administration consistently doesn’t expect a problem. I mean, fair is fair.

    Dustin (73fead)

  323. The Emperor, I’ve caught you in scores of lies over the years. But here alone, I’ve caught you in several, including the lie that I said that Obama had called Romney a felon.

    Now do the moral thing by your own standards above and leave. You have a minute.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  324. Another lie, SPQR. This beneath you.

    The Emperor (6a05c3)

  325. Actually, The Emperor, its another of your lies. And obviously its not actually beneath you, as you can’t go any lower than you have. Your credibility here is nonexistent as a result of your long history of dishonest trolling and general asshattery.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  326. what gives the Romney campaign moral right to accuse anyone of lying

    The lying gives them that right.

    You vaguely suggesting they are the same is just the playbook by now when democrats have to excuse something really nasty.

    Obama broke his word to elevate the discourse and he is a national disgrace along with his apologists.

    Dustin (73fead)

  327. “Has Romney and his camp run a lie-less campaign?”

    Lovey – If you believe the Romney campaign has been lying, why not illustrate three of those lies to prove your point? Make them lies, not just policy disagreements.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  328. How many lies have you caught me in, SPQR? State them here and now or you are the liar here. You have one minute….
    Comment by The Emperor — 8/10/2012 @ 8:41 am

    – Luckily, I have to go to work; otherwise, the highlight reel that follows would be a lot more extensive and exhaustive:

    As President, i beleive Obama will bring great economic fortunes to America. You can tell that by how he has run his campaign thus far.
    Comment by love2008 — 7/17/2008 @ 11:07 am

    Make no mistake about it, I am as conservative as they come. I am not a liberal. Not by any measure. But I am also open to common sense. My comments are not partisan. I am not an Obamabot (whatever that means. i know not) as some have alleged. I have yet to visit an Obama site. I dont get my information from partisan sources.
    Comment by love2008 — 7/17/2008 @ 7:19 pm

    – This one is particularly ironic, in light of the topic of THIS current thread:

    *sighs* What’s with all these surrogates anyway? Are they helping or hurting their candidates or what?
    Even when they think they are telling the truth, must they say it openly? It’s just wrong!
    Comment by love2008 — 9/29/2008 @ 11:50 am

    Icy (84536b)

  329. @ Icy, your point being?

    The Emperor (6a05c3)

  330. @ Icy, your point being?
    Comment by The Emperor — 8/10/2012 @ 9:50 am

    – The point being that I would like to see you denounce & condemn “the most disingenuous ad ever,” Harry Reid’s comments and the “Romney may have committed a felony” slur RIGHT NOW.

    Go!

    Icy (84536b)

  331. – Lie upon lie?
    A top aide to Sen. Reid, Jose Parra, appeared on a Los Angeles-based radio program with host Mario Solis-Marich on KTLK where he claimed that he knew specific details about Reid’s source.
    “This person is an investor in Bain Capital, a Republican also, and somebody who has been dealing with Romney’s company for a long, long time and he has direct knowledge of this,” said Para.
    The Huffington Post wrote this scoop up and posted it at approximately 6:34 p.m. on Thursday night. After reaching out to Para for details, they were let down to discover that Para was not [sure that] the source was actually a Republican. By 7:08 p.m., they posted Para’s correction:
    “I do not know the party affiliation of the source, how long he invested with Bain, or his relationship to Romney beyond the fact that he was an investor with Bain Capital, as Senator Reid has previously stated,” Para told HufPo.

    – And never mind the question that has remained unanswered through all of this: While a Bain investor would presumably have access to the company financial reports, HOW does this translate into viewing Mitt Romney’s tax return? Also, WHY haven’t ANY other investors come forward, albeit in the shadows, to confirm this lone allegation? It wasn’t just this one investor that happened to see the numbers; right?

    Icy (84536b)

  332. Evil employers create a chain of events that save a child’s life:

    http://patterico.com/jury/2011/06/14/six-year-old-rescued-from-drowning-because-of-nfl-lockout/

    Sammy Finkelman (609c6a)

  333. “Help yourself with this, Daley.”

    Lovey – Nice try.

    1. False. “To boost support for his stimulus, Obama’s economic team released a report that estimated unemployment wouldn’t rise above 8 percent with a stimulus package, according to Associated Press. Even without a stimulus, Obama’s team echoed the CBO claim that the economy would shed 3-4 million more jobs, reaching 9 percent unemployment by 2010.”

    2. False. ObamaCare has not been implemented. Businesses routinely cite the uncertainty of the regulations as a reason to increase employment.

    3. False. Characterizing Obama’s world tour as another other than Apology Tour is at best an interpretative difference.

    4. False. Assumes IPAB is only aspect involved, but even creation of IPAB makes Romney statement true.

    5. False. Your own link is self-refuting. “Mitt Romney claimed that Obama is shrinking the military. In fact, the military will be shrinking”

    Next.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  334. reason to increase employment. – reason NOT to increase employment

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  335. 307. A 1964 Pontiac GTO I bought in teh Summer of 1971… that was my first car… then after I got sick of buying gas, a ’68 6 cylinder Ford Falcon… and then after I got sick of the Falcon, a ’68 Chevy Nova w/the 307, a 4-speed and a bench seat… and then I bought a brand new ’74 Fiat X1/9… I loved that car and only sold it cuz we were starting a family and I needed to be practical.

    Comment by Colonel Haiku — 8/9/2012 @ 8:09 pm

    A man after mine own heart. My first car, that I bought myself, was a ’68 Ranchero.

    Before that, I borrowed my Grandpa’s ’68 Nova with the 307 that I thought had something special under the hood as it said “Turbofire” or some such on a sticker on the air cleaner. Alas, it was not to be.

    But. But. Then was the ’68 Dodge Charger with the “440S.” After much research in the pre-internet days I learned it was the 440 Magnum with the NASCAR bottom end. All forged.

    I never got a ticket in that car. Mostly because the cops felt like I wasn’t wringing it out for all it was worth. They’d stop me, say “what the hell’s wrong with you; you gotta vaccuum leak or something.” Then they’d tweak it, rage around the block, say “Fixed it for ya,” and I had to drive the thing out of the neighborhood swearing to the almighty it wasn’t me trying to run down the kids but the cops.

    Then I Joined the Nav. I won’t bore you with the ’88 ‘Stang, except to say google “Monster Miata.com” and see what you can do with 5 liters of Ford in a sports car. Whoops! Carrol Shelby did that back in the sixties.

    Now, if I get this AFR headed four bolt main small block built for the ’71 El Camino…

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  336. I probably should add that my little bro has a ’69 GTO convertible with a Ram Air 400. And big bro has a ’65 Galaxie and last I checked a ’67 Fairlane GT/A, both with 390s.

    So obviously it’s only sexual inadequacy that compels me to buy the ’71 ElCo that I can do damned well what I please to since it’s not a numbers matching SS.

    That and my homophobia.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  337. There’s a kind of lung cancer (small cell?) that’s very aggressive, six months from onset to death. Yul Brynner died from it.

    Comment by nk — 8/9/2012 @ 4:12 pm

    My father died with Squamous Cell lung cancer in 1990. With insurance no less. At Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, MD no less. I blame Boossshhhh!

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  338. big bro has a ’65 Galaxie and last I checked a ’67 Fairlane GT/A, both with 390s.

    My folks had a “Custom 500″ from 68 I believe, which was a version of the Fairlane I think with a 390. Well over 100,000 miles my dad sold it to a friend, he ran it for a long time. My folks said if they new the car was going to be so good they would have bought 2 and stored one.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  339. My folks had a “Custom 500″ from 68 I believe, which was a version of the Fairlane I think with a 390. Well over 100,000 miles my dad sold it to a friend, he ran it for a long time. My folks said if they new the car was going to be so good they would have bought 2 and stored one.

    Comment by MD in Philly — 8/10/2012 @ 5:23 pm

    If I’m not mistaken, Clint Eastwood was driving a Custom 500 in one of the Dirty Harry movies. The one where he’s dating an Asian chick, and Starsky or Hutch reads him the riot act for not getting onboard with the SFPD death squads.

    Which, even when it came out, was a reason to bust your gut laughing. SFPD? Right wing death squads? Buwahaha! Yeah. That’ll happen.

    The Custom 500 was cool, though (convertible I think). And the Ford 390 FE was OK, as long as you weren’t racing.

    A dump truck with one of those things in it would live several owners’ lifetimes before it gave up the ghost.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  340. “… ’68 Nova with the 307 that I thought had something special under the hood as it said “Turbofire” or some such on a sticker on the air cleaner. Alas, it was not to be.”

    Steve… yeah, I think mine had about 200HP… not much for ’68, but would’ve been a world beater from about ’74 thru ’82 or ’83, teh years of sorry-ass cars, power-wise.

    I’ll never forget the time I took my new ’78 Buick Turbo Regal (165HP… whoopee!) on the sweeping interchange from the NB 57 to the EB91 (East Anaheim, Ca. area) and watched one of those slick li’l twin-stick Dodge Colts fly by me like I was standing still. That Buick was built by one of the infamous GM UAW crews that came back to work after an “11 different herbs and spices”-style lunch break that was so popular with the UAW crew in those daze… I had a buddy who worked in Ford’s El Monte plant back then, and he used to tell us all about what went on.

    Teh last GM car I ever bought.

    Colonel Haiku (8e0c51)

  341. That Buick was built by one of the infamous GM UAW crews that came back to work after an “11 different herbs and spices”-style lunch break that was so popular with the UAW crew in those daze…

    They still are popular. The UAW hasn’t changed.

    Detroit Auto Workers Busted on the Job Drinking Beer & Smoking Pot on Break.flv

    This to me was always the most amazing part:

    I had a buddy who worked in Ford’s El Monte plant back then, and he used to tell us all about what went on.

    I’m going to guess, since this was your buddy, that he was telling you about things he found shocking.

    In my case, it was friends dads who would brag on the weekend about how they intentionally produced crap. They were proud of what they were doing. They thought it was creative, the multitudinous ways they could devise to ruin a car on the assembly line.

    And they would turn on a dime (not something the land yachts they were building could do, especially since they were assembling them with willful disdain) and accuse new car buyers of being “un-American” if instead of buying their crap they instead bought a Datsun.

    I was relieved when GM shut down the plant and killed their sideline of in addition to their main occupation of drinking, smoking pot, and collecting welfare checks and benefits courtesy of the union on occasion turning out road hazards and death traps.

    Steve57 (5797fd)

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