Patterico's Pontifications

8/3/2012

Why Adam Smith Was Being a Bully — And Why the Woman in the Window at Chick-Fil-A Should Be Promoted

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:21 am



Commenters have debated whether the latter-day Adam Smith should have lost his job over this:

I don’t intend to participate in that debate. My view is that it’s his employer’s decision, not mine.

But I do want to point out why his behavior was so offensive. I think commenter crosspatch expressed part of the reason in this comment:

The problem I have with Mr. Smith’s rant is that it is inherently unfair. The woman at the window obviously can not respond with what she might wish to day because her rhetorical hands are tied by being a customer service representative of her employer. Mr. Smith, on the other hand, can say whatever he wants.

Absolutely right — but it goes beyond that. By telling the woman “I don’t know how you live with yourself and work here” while pointing a camera at her, he intended to personally humiliate her — to punish her for having the nerve to try to earn a living at a restaurant whose owner has said and done things with which Smith disagrees. And Smith intended to take the video of her humiliation and spread it as far and wide as possible.

So he berated a low-wage food service worker for views that weren’t necessarily hers, in a situation where she had no ability to respond in kind, as a way to embarrass and harass her in the most public way he could manage.

That’s the behavior of a bully.

It would have been different if Smith had chosen to confront Dan Cathy with a video camera. Cathy can defend himself. He is not constrained to be polite in the same way the nameless food service worker was.

I won’t opine about Smith’s employment, but I will make this observation: Chick-Fil-A should promote the woman in the video. She handled a difficult situation with poise and grace. Adam Smith intended to make her the face of Chick-Fil-A — and believed that would be a bad thing for the company. Now, on computer screens across the nation, she is the face of Chick-Fil-A — and it does the company credit. If Dan Cathy hasn’t already gotten on the phone to make sure she gets ahead in the organization, then he’s blowing a golden opportunity.

227 Responses to “Why Adam Smith Was Being a Bully — And Why the Woman in the Window at Chick-Fil-A Should Be Promoted”

  1. does she have any financial background? There’s a CFO position available..

    the bhead (a31060)

  2. Well said, Patterico.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  3. Adam Smith the maroon who records himself being a complete jerk gets canned. Justice swift and sure is a good thing!

    CalifJim (281a3f)

  4. Smith was doing his Liberal Wile E. Coyote impression and the Acme Safe fell on him.

    PCD (1d8b6d)

  5. I do not understand how anyone could possibly argue that Smith should not have been fired. Would you give him signatory power on YOUR checkbook?

    creeper (849351)

  6. Smith was not just a bully, but a coward. He chose to wait in his car, where he could just drive away, instead of going into the business with his camera, where he would have had to face dozens of people who would have wondered why he was so stupid. He was afraid of the courage of his beliefs, which makes him the most coward of cowards.

    reff (4dcda2)

  7. OK this is funny. Just finished typing a comment on other thread about the very point of this post. Only Patterico said it a lot better. Am enjoying it a bit too much I think (I think because he knew she could be fired if she responded rudely but he lost his job instead), but let’s face it, schadenfreude isn’t pretty…


    Smith was doing his Liberal Wile E. Coyote impression and the Acme Safe fell on him.

    Comment by PCD — 8/3/2012 @ 7:57 am

    lol exactly.

    no one you know (325a59)

  8. someone in the other thread made the astute observation that the woman he was bullying was at considerable risk of losing her job if she reacted in a bad way to his provocations.

    that makes his behavior all the more reprehensible, honestly: either he was *trying* to achieve that result, or he *didn’t care* if that result obtained, or he was too clueless to realize that it *could* obtain.

    aphrael (24797a)

  9. Adam’s life just got worse. His video and story are now up on Drudge.

    elissa (2af611)

  10. Very well said. It’s simply amazing how many people feel free to act like creeps because they think they’re serving a noble cause.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (a18ddc)

  11. Not only am I pleased he was fired, I also hope he goes so broke that he cannot pay his water bill. He will then understand.

    nk (875f57)

  12. So he berated a low-wage food service worker for views that weren’t necessarily hers, in a situation where she had no ability to respond in kind, as a way to embarrass and harass her in the most public way he could manage

    Welcome to the gay marriage “debate”

    Note that such behavior is done as a manner of course with the left.

    Jay (4f25cc)

  13. I would also add there is no way he would have done this if a male were working at that window.

    Jay (4f25cc)

  14. Good point, CalifJim, but

    Adam Smith the maroon who records himself being a complete jerk gets canned. Justice swift and sure in a private sector non-union job is a good thing!

    Comment by CalifJim — 8/3/2012 @ 7:54 am

    There, fixed that..

    SiliconValleyConservative (8d09f6)

  15. It’s too bad about his wife and 4 kids though.

    But them’s the breaks. His actions hurt them too. Hopefully, he figures out a way to undo some of that.

    Random (edf1d2)

  16. It’s too bad about his wife and 4 kids though.

    Just a hunch, but they probably already know he is a sanctimonious jerk (depending on the age of the kids).

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  17. He can apply for a job at McDonald’s; and a second one at Dominick’s; and a weekend job at a 7-11.

    nk (875f57)

  18. And there is another, broader aspect to all of this. Look at the man’s situation. He has evidently been having a rough go of things financially until he landed his current job. He is supporting a family of five. He apparently never thought what the consequences might be to the larger obligation he might have to his family. Unless, that is, it never occurred to him that he might have a larger obligation to his family and was thinking only about himself and how he was going to be the viral internet darling of the political left. What, did he think he was bucking for a finance job with George Soros?

    This is revealing in so many different aspects of his personality and can be a teachable moment for people to stop, think, be aware of your total life context before you pull stunts like this. You could end up living your middle age in your mother’s basement if you do crap like this.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  19. We need a Sockpuppet Friday reprise just to mock this guy properly.

    no one you know (325a59)

  20. For me the funniest thing about the video is i get the sense toward the end that he was actually trying to hit on this girl. suave!

    Btw, i have way too much fun with the Bronies at my site today. If you’re looking for something silly on a Friday.

    Aaron "Worthing" Walker (23789b)

  21. I’ve never ordered food at a Chick-fil-A because there are few in easy driving distance from my home. However, from talking with friends who have, Rachel is hardly unique. Apparently she is the embodiment of a well trained, professional, Chick-Fil-A customer service employee– and there are many. I think it’s important not to over “hero-ize” her to the exclusion of others just because she is the one caught on camera being calmly brave and heroic. It was the luck of the draw so to speak that she was the one who stood there at the window smiling and offering free water when the idiot now known to the world drove up and changed both their lives. She did not choose her role. It was thrust up on her. I’m sure there were many other employees at Chick-Fil-A who also endured verbal abuse that day with aplomb and dignity. Let’s not overlook that even as we appropriately appreciate and marvel at Rachel’s maturity and poise ubder pressure.

    elissa (2af611)

  22. This young woman was a private citizen, not a public figure. Yet she has now become the face of alleged Chick-Fil-A feelings towards gays and her face has been spread far and wide around the internet – all because of the errant behavior of Mr. Smith.

    Query: Does she have a cause of action against Mr. Smith?

    Also, my experience has been that anyone telling me they are a nice guy (as Mr. Smith apparently did in the video), isn’t.

    JohnG (65db1e)

  23. Comment by elissa — 8/3/2012 @ 9:11 am

    Well said.

    no one you know (325a59)

  24. I agree that the young lady deserves a raise, or at least a bonus, for her handling of this jerk.

    509th Bob (dd1bdb)

  25. He made a point of making sure she understood he wasn’t gay.

    Either he’d be ashamed of the accusation, or after being an ass, he was trying to hit on her!

    (Yes, I know he insulted her — but as a matter of male nature, that wouldn’t preclude him from hitting on her.)

    NJMark (ebc589)

  26. Another question about possible legal action for the employee…my understanding is that the parking lot and building are private property. Is there any privacy expectations, or the fact that it’s a public area make a difference?

    BradnSA (980254)

  27. drove up and changed both their lives. She did not choose her role. It was thrust up on her. I’m sure there were many other employees at Chick-Fil-A who also endured verbal abuse that day with aplomb and dignity. Let’s not overlook that even as we appropriately appreciate and marvel at Rachel’s maturity and poise ubder pressure.

    Comment by elissa — 8/3/2012 @ 9:11 am

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  28. I witnessed similar harassment of innocent young teen or pre-teen boys a dozen years ago after the Supreme Court decision preserving the right to freedom of association of the Boy Scouts of America. Young boys in scout uniforms fundraising in front of stores would be viciously harangued for policies they did not understand and had no influence over. We ultimately made sure to have plenty of adult supervision on hand to intervene and also correct the incredible amount of misinformation that had been spread about the organization.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  29. 27….drove up and changed both their lives….
    Comment by elissa — 8/3/2012 @ 9:11 am

    Kind of strange or something when you think about it. One moment noting seems unusual, next minute, in one way nothing has changed, but everything has changed.

    (sorry for the mess-up above)

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  30. ___________________________________________

    He made a point of making sure she understood he wasn’t gay.

    Which calls to mind the follow-up jokey comment of “…not that there’s anything wrong with that.” Or a moment of politically correct self-consciousness that attempts to mask an innate sense that, well — to be perfectly honest — there is something sort of wrong or peculiar about it, but I’m too embarrassed or phony to admit it.

    Mark (70c729)

  31. I think Rachel did an exemplary job in dealing with the situation. She should be commended. I am not sure that she should be automatically promoted, as she really did nothing more than her job. She is paid to deal with customers in a polite manner. She did so, very well, in a difficult situation. A bonus is certainly well deserved. Being named Employee of the Year is something she could earn from this episode, and it would be easy to justify.

    I am glad that Vante acted as quickly and forcefully as they did when the new internet sensation Adam Smith was brought to their attention. As an officer in their company it is his duty to not do something that can embarrass the company. Being an At Will state, they had every right to release him from their employment, even if he was NOT an officer.

    Dustyn H (cc2235)

  32. I’m sure there are plenty of liberal Gay Rights organizations rushing forward with monetary aide to help Adam Smith and his (traditional) family through their current financial problems.

    Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b)

  33. ____________________________________________

    would be viciously harangued for policies

    I wonder how such protestors feel about the scandal that has roiled the Catholic church for decades? Are they the type that shrugged off the controversy that shadowed Michael Jackson and his sleepovers?

    I’m not sure if such pro-GLBT people are motivated by personal experience (eg, if they themselves are gay or bisexual), or if they have close friends or family members who are gay/bisexual, or if they’re just spouting off some POV based on left-leaning sentiments, and everything and everyone to them is merely pawns to be moved on some giant chessboard, consequences be damned.

    Mark (70c729)

  34. “I’m not sure if such pro-GLBT people are motivated by personal experience”

    Mark – When engaged, many of the particularly vocal people and couples (usually a man and woman) turned out not to even have children or be gay.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  35. I think I’m just going to settle for making personal remarks about the bully. One personal remark: I HATE HIS VOICE.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  36. ___________________________________________

    turned out not to even have children or be gay.

    daleyrocks, if they were older folks and not merely young high-school- or college-aged couples, that makes the specter of them spouting off in front of some Boy Scouts even more pathetic or slightly demented.

    I personally feel irritated about someone mocking homosexuality in front of a stranger who, for instance, appears to be effeminate or in order to merely humiliate that person, and I also feel irritated about adults grandstanding in front of a stranger, whether a Boy Scout or a woman at a fast-food stand, in order to satisfy some nonsensical — and probably superficial — liberal compulsion.

    BTW, I find myself using the label of “bisexual” more than “gay” when it comes to the controversies promoted by the GLBT crowd because I think that is a more accurate, honest reflection of what really occurs in the darker side of human sexuality.

    Mark (70c729)

  37. For me the funniest thing about the video is i get the sense toward the end that he was actually trying to hit on this girl. suave!

    Yeah, you and me both, bro. That’s why he blurted out that he isn’t gay.

    I wonder if his wife caught the subtext? I’m thinking, “Yes.”

    Random (edf1d2)

  38. BTW, I find myself using the label of “bisexual” more than “gay” when it comes to the controversies promoted by the GLBT crowd because I think that is a more accurate, honest reflection of what really occurs in the darker side of human sexuality.

    lol

    We’re polygynous apes and the ladies needed something to do, yo.

    It’s natural. It’s cool. It’s also kind of hot.

    And very full of all the right kinds of light.

    Random (edf1d2)

  39. I don’t think he was hitting on her. He was hitting on himself – that is, he was very concerned about how he appeared – that was just narcissism. And Im not so sure I trust his closing points.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  40. “The woman at the window obviously can not respond with what she might wish to say because her rhetorical hands are tied by being a customer service representative of her employer.”

    She should not need to be a spokesperson. That’s she can’t say what she thinks is due the fact that there IS politics in her workplace: Dan Cathy’s politics.

    She should be able disagree with her bosses and say it publicly. But I’m sure a lot of the customer base is as bigoted as they are.

    The guy in the car shouldn’t have tried to humiliate her for needing to pay the rent but here reaction was spineless. If she feels she has no choice to be spineless that’s a problem.

    “Chick-Fil-A should promote the woman in the video.”
    She lied. That’s what “customer service people” are paid to do.

    I wouldn’t care if Cathy were a Gay billionaire democrat with a villa in South Beach, I hate corporate culture.

    still sleeeeepy (b5f718)

  41. Yeah, I didn’t pick up a “hitting on” bit either, SarahW. Not in the slightest. But I do think it was *very* important to him to mention that he wasn’t gay–and I think that’s because he knew he was gonna post it on the internet and did not want his family, friends or business associates to think that he might be. LOL

    elissa (2af611)

  42. Still sleepy was kind of predictable, no?

    JD (cfef43)

  43. still sleeepy reveals that he approves of bullying people.

    SPQR (26706b)

  44. Yeah he was, and she caught it at 2:07 just after she was repeating back to him what a nice guy he was – you can see her expression shift.

    Random (edf1d2)

  45. That’s she can’t say what she thinks is due the fact that there IS politics in her workplace: Dan Cathy’s politics.

    No, that’s not true. Like ANY other company, employees on the job interfacing with customers shouldn’t interject their political views. It would be wrong if the server at the drive-up window of a McDonalds were to spout off right-wing talking points, too.

    She should be able disagree with her bosses and say it publicly.

    Not while on the job. I would say this about any employee of any company with any viewpoint. What you do while being paid by your employer is completely within the control of said employer.

    The guy in the car shouldn’t have tried to humiliate her for needing to pay the rent but here reaction was spineless. If she feels she has no choice to be spineless that’s a problem.

    Nope, it wasn’t spineless. It was the proper thing for her to do. Her job is to serve food, not harangue customers.

    Chuck Bartowski (3bccbd)

  46. “That’s she can’t say what she thinks is due the fact that there IS politics in her workplace: Dan Cathy’s politics.”

    still sleeeeepy – What part of Dan Cathy’s politics are in her workplace?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  47. She lied. She couldn’t admit her *true* feelings because she’s muzzled. Corporate boot on her throat. Sleeeepy just knows it, JD.

    elissa (2af611)

  48. Lied about what, Elissa? Him being a nice guy?

    She wasn’t totally lying about that. She is someone who likes to see the positive in people. She lit up for a second when she said that.

    Then he went on about being hetero and she’s like, “Uh, no ….”

    Random (edf1d2)

  49. She should be able disagree with her bosses and say it publicly.

    Oh, I see what you’re talking about. Yeah, that’s ridiculous.

    Sure she can, but not at work, and not in a way that calls her employer into disrepute.

    Random (edf1d2)

  50. You ever ridden in a taxi, sleepy? It seems that every cabbie in the country knows exactly what’s wrong with this country and just how to fix it, and feels as if it’s his duty to inform all of his fares.

    That makes me uncomfortable. All I want to do is get where I’m going, I don’t want a lecture on politics. Doesn’t matter what the cabbie’s politics are, I don’t need to hear them.

    So, no, employees on the clock should keep their political opinions to themselves. Once they’re off the clock, they’re free to say whatever they wish.

    Chuck Bartowski (3bccbd)

  51. still sleepy= clueless libtard assclown. Food service worker probably making at or near minimum wage and she should diss her own employee and risk firing for some ignorant self-aggrandizing fool?

    Fatboy Mikey Moore agitprop liberal likens himself to be part of the 99% even though he’s worth $50 MIL? Ditto for slimeball Roseanne Barr who conveniently wants people to have their net worth capped at her level, which I think is also $50 mil. Seems to me the liberal/gay/hollywood communities should step up and show some compassion for the sincere self-described non-homosexual Mr. Smith, but no doubt they want the rest of us to pay his salary, much like the way liberals force the rest of us to support their propaganda through taxpayer supported NPR,PBS and NEA. A shitehead like Cokie Roberts can spew her nonsense that Romney was in Poland to seek the whitey vote back in the USA and have the rest of us support her lifestyle. Ditto for that other jackass Bill Moyers.
    If Mr. Smith had any balls he would confront the local imam and ask why Muslims stone homosexuals. That’s something else I don’t get, given that Mohammed himself was a pedophile.

    Calypso Louis Farrakhan (e799d8)

  52. Sarcasm Random. Responding to our pal Sleepy’s “she lied” spew. Nothing more nothing less.

    elissa (2af611)

  53. It’s called being a professional, snozzy, yfa! Something that you obviously know nothing about. What would you have done? My guess is piss your pants!

    ∅ (721840)

  54. _____________________________________________

    and did not want his family, friends or business associates to think that he might be. LOL

    That’s sort of a variation of people like Obama extolling the virtue of public schools — and berating those who are skeptical about the nature of public education — yet sending his own precious children to private academies.

    Or people who fancy themselves as big pro-Green-Earth environmentalists, yet who are unwilling to do something as simple and easy as driving around in a smaller vehicle instead of a SUV. (Ding, ding, ding—Obama at least a few years ago!)

    Or branding others for “racism” and “racist,” while directing their real-estate agent to avoid looking for homes in certain parts of town that have a certain demographic.

    Limousine liberalism (and one doesn’t have to be wealthy to be guilty of that) is quite a sight to behold.

    Mark (70c729)

  55. It is ironic that for a guy to berate a service worker to quit her job for a principle, he loses his job for the same principle.

    BTW, everyone deserves to express their first amendment right of free speech, yet the haters (the anti-Chickfila’s) seem to lack that perception.

    MyOpinion (4ff715)

  56. It’s sort of amusing that a lot of the guys here say they see obvious signs he was hitting on her, while the girls (at least SarahW and I) say, “no waaay!”.

    Messages of all sorts fail when the sender and receiver aren’t on the same wave length. This is perhaps another real life example of the venus and mars theory?

    elissa (2af611)

  57. Comment by elissa — 8/3/2012 @ 11:29 am

    Heh — hadn’t even noticed the gender gap in the reactions till you pointed it out. Two cents – this female doesn’t think he was hitting on her. Testosterone and the near-chemical high of smug self righteousness don’t mix well IMO.

    no one you know (325a59)

  58. It’s sort of amusing that a lot of the guys here say they see obvious signs he was hitting on her, while the girls (at least SarahW and I) say, “no waaay!”.

    Aaron and I didn’t say he was hitting on her well.

    Random (edf1d2)

  59. “BTW, everyone deserves to express their first amendment right of free speech”

    MyOpinion — An interesting perspective. The constitution says the Congress shall make no law encroaching upon your right to free speech. Absent any laws to the contrary, do you believe an employee of a private employer whose job duties include customer service and is instructed not to disagree with customers is having their speech unconstitutionally limited?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  60. I don’t think he’s hitting on her. As I said on another thread, he expected to encounter a bunch of homophobic hate speech and didn’t get it but carried on with his prepared remarks. (“BTW, I’m not teh ghey!!!”)

    Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b)

  61. MyOpinion – If I called my boss a scum sucking, back stabbing, f*ck wad, do you believe that is protected speech?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  62. “BTW, everyone deserves to express their first amendment right of free speech”

    Is an actor told to read the lines having their freedom trampled on?

    What about a sales rep told to follow a script or, at the very least, identify themselves a certain way (i.e., from the company)?

    And so on.

    A job isn’t “freedom” as such. It’s giving up some time and freedom in return for money. It’s also optional.

    Random (edf1d2)

  63. I never got a whiff of hitting on … The I don’t have any gay in me was EPIC funny.

    JD (cfef43)

  64. I would bet his boss was already aware that this guy is a jerk. Straw that broke the camel’s back.

    I guess the vandalism at the Torrance store was just peaceful protest, too. :)

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  65. I won’t opine about Smith’s employment, but I will make this observation: Chick-Fil-A should promote the woman in the video. She handled a difficult situation with poise and grace.

    Glad I’m not the only one who noticed how amazingly well she performed in that situation. It’s also impressive that she managed to get a word in about how the video camera made her uncomfortable.

    As for Smith: I think he was hoping to force her to either belittle Cathy or say something homophobic. He belittled her because she wouldn’t give him what he wanted – ammo to use against Cathy (“Even your employees disagree with you!”) or Chick-fil-A (“Look how homophobic they all are!”). That nastiness was not in spite of her response; it was a direct result of it.

    bridget (a44b32)

  66. “The I don’t have any gay in me was EPIC funny.”

    JD – He prolly prayed it away.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  67. Is that THE bridget?!

    JD (cfef43)

  68. “I guess the vandalism at the Torrance store was just peaceful protest, too. :)”

    Patricia – We learned from the OWS protests that they are always peaceful until the police respond to the nonviolent window breaking, rock throwing, fire starting, other vandalism and property destruction. Just sayin’.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  69. Anybody know how the Kiss-In is going?

    Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b)

  70. Smith was not just a bully, but a coward. He chose to wait in his car, where he could just drive away, instead of going into the business with his camera, where he would have had to face dozens of people who would have wondered why he was so stupid. He was afraid of the courage of his beliefs, which makes him the most coward of cowards.

    Comment by reff — 8/3/2012 @ 8:00 am

    BINGO!

    Joe (a00dc1)

  71. “… I hate corporate culture….”

    Generally, that means “I am a lazy ass and am jealous of people who work hard and make money.”

    Anyone who works hard doesn’t begrudge other people who work hard their money.

    It’s dorm room Trustifarian babble.

    Simon Jester (dab08c)

  72. One of the commenters over at Ace of Spades found out her name and store # in a CFA post. You can go to the corporate CFA website and then reference her name and store number and say a few good words in the feedback link.

    EC (dda60e)

  73. Immediate termination – this incident probably saved Vante considerable time and money. Rarely does someone get fired over a single incident. Most likely, his behavior and quality of work was consistent what was in the video, but just not quite enough to terminate him. This act just eliminated any potential counter claims of discrimination, eliminated any reason for payment of unemployment benefits, charge backs etc.

    Joe (a00dc1)

  74. daleyrocks: Nice to dump on me. If you would like to invent hypotheticals to counter my argument, go right ahead and let me express my right to ignore you. Let’s discuss the issue at hand.

    MyOpinion (ea4bfa)

  75. “Let’s discuss the issue at hand.”

    MyOpinion – That is exactly what I did. What part didn’t you understand?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  76. Joe,a CFO is typically an exempt employee, not eligable for UI. They also normally have zero protections from being fired.

    Sleepy, US culture prohibits discussing politics and religion in the work place, especially if one of those being addressed or who cannot leave the area has a problem with the views expressed. This is the norm, not the exception. People are being paid to work, not prosyltize or be converted.

    Worst comes to worst? More than a few businesses allow managers to order people like him off the premises, on pain of being charged with criminal trespass. I have come close to calling for the police a few times, with full support of my supervisor and upper management.

    Phillep Harding (1b8b26)

  77. Philip, that is a bit of an overstatement. i have coworkers with whom i’ve discussed politics and religion while at work. OTH, i’ve worked with the same team for five years, and we all know each other really well, which might make a difference.

    aphrael (24797a)

  78. Instead of verbally abusing and berating a defenseless young lady standing behind a counter from the safety of his automobile – I’d like to see that big, tough, bad-a$$ Adam Smith drive over to the local Tucson mosque – get out of his car – and walk into the mosque and harangue the mullahs in there over their treatment of homosexuals — “can’t stand the hate” eh, Adam?? Take your video camera with you and let us know how it works out for you. What a little Pu$$y!!

    Dave-O (93a437)

  79. There are gay people at Chick-Fil-A who are at work right now and you can bet they’re putting up with all sorts of abuse being spewed by people who have no idea who they’re talking to.

    How many of the people going there to show support are going to show support for free speech, as Greenwald does, and not to show support for bigotry?

    “the Woman in the Window at Chick-Fil-A Should Be Promoted”

    That’s not a defense of free speech that’s a defense of Chick-Fil-A.

    They’re indefensible, morally, and even more important, they’re a losing cause.

    still sleeeeepy (b5f718)

  80. They’re indefensible, morally, and even more important, they’re a losing cause.

    Bugger off

    JD (a9f1e0)

  81. Dave-O
    http://www.hrw.org/reports/2008/12/17/alien-legacy-0

    “This 66-page report describes how laws in over three dozen countries, from India to Uganda and from Nigeria to Papua New Guinea, derive from a single law on homosexual conduct that British colonial rulers imposed on India in 1860. This year, the High Court in Delhi ended hearings in a years-long case seeking to decriminalize homosexual conduct there. A ruling in the landmark case is expected soon.”

    And then there are the American Christian fundamentalists promoting laws that include the death penalty for gays

    http://news.yahoo.com/us-religious-presses-anti-gay-laws-africa-125113762.html

    And yes there are muslim gay rights organizations. A lot of them.

    still sleeeeepy (b5f718)

  82. There are gay people at Chick-Fil-A who are at work right now and you can bet they’re putting up with all sorts of abuse being spewed by people who have no idea who they’re talking to.

    Really? How much would you bet on that? What makes you think there is any sort of abusive talk at Chick-Fil-A? It doesn’t strike me as that kind of place.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  83. Milhouse – it knows nothing of the sort. It was an asspull.

    JD (a9f1e0)

  84. They’re indefensible, morally, and even more important, they’re a losing cause.

    That’s a very telling statement from our latest troll. Being on the winning side is more important to him than being on the right side. He’s glad when the two are the same, but given the choice he’d rather win than be right. Contrast that with Whittaker Chambers, a giant of a man because he was convinced that he was on the winning side, and yet when he realised how immoral it was he crossed to what he thought was the losing side, for no other reason than that it was the right thing to do.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  85. Milhouse, please consider this post. In particular, this paragraph:

    No one really stopped talking about the reasons why today was as busy as it was. The people I work alongside kept going on and on about how powerful it was to be part of such a righteous movement, and how encouraged they were to know that there were so many people who agree with Dan Cathy. They went on at great length about how it was wrong not just for gays to marry, but to exist. One kid, age 19, said “I hope the gays go hungry.”

    aphrael (24797a)

  86. It’s been my experience that guys like Smith tend to be very accident prone.

    Every fast food place in Arizona should have a complimentary cup of hot coffee waiting for Mr Smith.

    Arc (0baa7b)

  87. ““… I hate corporate culture….”

    Generally, that means “I am a lazy ass and am jealous of people who work hard and make money.””

    – Simon Jester

    I think there are some exceptions to that (and to be fair, you did qualify your statement with “generally”). I think there are a number of recent examples (in the Silicon Valley milieu, for instance) of entrepreneurs who really did hate corporate culture and decided to work around it, at least for a time. My dad hated the corporate culture at LANL and quit to start his own outfit. What I mean is, some people hate corporate culture precisely because it can impede hard work and money-making.

    Which isn’t to disagree with your point that, more often than not, statements like that are dorm room Trustifarian babble, only to come to the defense of the rare exceptions to the rule (who, for most part, would never explicitly say something like that even if it was how they felt).

    Leviticus (e923df)

  88. well duh, he made his bed and can now sleep in it. Regrets after the fact? When the feces hits the fan? Like one wag said, he wasn’t fired for his views, but rather for being a big a$$hole.

    Calypso Louis Farrakhan (e799d8)

  89. I was referring to the troll in question. But I see many, many students of privilege bemoaning consumerist, capitalist society.

    I call them Marxists in 300 dollar shoes. They need to complain less and give more—especially when they feel other people have too much.

    And isn’t just young people. I have a very socialist colleague who owns two large homes and a 45 foot sailboat…yet says how awful and capitalistic and materialist we all are.

    She should downsize and give more to those less fortunate, particularly when she claims not to be materialistic.

    Sadly, it is not about what we do, but what we want others to do. I just would like to see consistency. .

    Simon Jester (dab08c)

  90. Boy, did she ever earn her paycheck having to deal with such a jerk! She DID engage to refute the jerk, realized it was pointless, and kept her cool. BRAVA!!! I can just imagine the adrenaline she had to fight!!!

    Amy Shulkusky (efe473)

  91. just cause the president is sorta weird doesn’t mean you can’t eat tasty sammiches there sure as hell beats arby’s

    horsey sauce?

    really?

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  92. in my recent adventures in minnesota I kept hearing about this sammich

    i finally tried one it’s not bad really … the sesame seeds get all over the car though

    but they’re really kind of a thing up there

    the special thing about them is you can enjoy them whether or not you like the gay marriagings or not, so it’s a very flexible foozle

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  93. They went on at great length about how it was wrong not just for gays to marry, but to exist. One kid, age 19, said “I hope the gays go hungry.”

    That’s bad. I’m sure the Cathy family don’t approve of that sort of language, and I doubt the local manager does either. Did she bring it (discreetly) to her manager’s attention?

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  94. “Sadly, it is not about what we do, but what we want others to do. I just would like to see consistency…”

    – Simon Jester

    I getcha. It drove me crazy, too – Designer Marxism was just so hip on my campus.

    Leviticus (e923df)

  95. the sesame seeds get all over the car though

    From the picture at the link those look like poppy seeds, not sesame. Do they perhaps come in different varieties?

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  96. Leviticus: sorry that it bothers you, too. I have lost friends pointing this kind of thing out.

    On my campus, the New Religion is “Sustainability.”

    Oh, well.

    Simon Jester (dab08c)

  97. “That’s a very telling statement from our latest troll. Being on the winning side is more important to him than being on the right side.”

    That was simply a statement of political fact. But I was on that side when it was a loser.

    “It drove me crazy, too – Designer Marxism was just so hip on my campus.”

    “Yummies”
    Young Upwardly Mobile Marxists.

    The phrase has been around for awhile but it’s not nearly popular enough.

    I’m a bourgie leftie. But if I ran a business I wouldn’t give my people a script to read off I’d just demand that they be polite even on a bad day.

    Be Friendly” kind of disgusts me.

    still sleeeeepy (b5f718)

  98. If Mr Smith, a top corporate executive, could behave that way to an entry-level employee of another company, while knowing that he was on camera, what is to say that he wouldn’t behave the same way to a lower-level employee of Vante, perhaps a janitor who came in wearing a Chick-fil-A t-shirt, or some office personnel who brought back Chick-fil-A food from their lunch break, or just anybody who happened to piss him off?

    What if Vante had retained him after this film became public, and he was later accused by a lower-level Vante employee of harassment and creating a hostile work environment? Having a huge public record like this, wouldn’t his superiors at Vante be more liable for retaining an employee that they knew had that kind of temper and behavior? I don’t see where Vante even had a choice in the matter: they had to get rid of him.

    The realistic Dana (f68855)

  99. “I’m a bourgie leftie.”

    And not particularly bright either. The trolls here get more tiresome by the day.

    Jack Klompus (3b425f)

  100. This is the thing about Causes; regardless of the rights and wrongs of the Cause (and I’m in favor of legally recognizing Gay Marriage, as it happens) there is always the strong possibility that they will be hijacked by Righteous Twits who want to parade their Moral Superiority in public. Such vermin are seldom prepared to take any real risks, and so tend to pick on people who can be used as symbols of their target while being in no position to hit back (even metaphorically). So a reasonable Cause is always in danger of descending to the level of the Westboro Bab-tist Prats.

    The Conservative Right, knowing full well that the media is NOT their friend no a fair amount of damage control aimed at this. They don’t always succeed in distancing themselves from the rabid baboons, but they try. The Left has had it easy for too long. They have had decades of soft handling from their fellow Lefties in the media, and it is taking them a long time to get used to the idea that certain behaviors do their positions more damage than good.

    They need to pick up the pace. There are traditionally Left causes that I foresee going down in flames. I even support some of them.

    C. S. P. Schofield (4feea2)

  101. Or it could be simpler: perhaps the president of Vante realized that anyone stupid enough to pull this stunt, record it, and post it on YouTube, was too stupid to be handling the company’s money.

    The snarky Dana (f68855)

  102. “On my campus, the New Religion is “Sustainability.””

    – Simon Jester

    And it’s like, nothing wrong sustainability, but maybe a biohazard Prius battery and a new disposable Starbucks cup every day isn’t particularly sustainable. Get a mug, perhaps…

    Leviticus (102f62)

  103. daleyrocks: I don’t understand you. Bye.

    MyOpinion (c1edfb)

  104. I may be a bit late to this debate, but as someone who fully supported “Chik-a-Fil” or whatever it’s called “Appreciation Day” – on the civil-libertarian ground that mayors, aldermen or other elected officials shouldn’t be dictating what causes a business or anyone should be donating money to (whether be groups opposed to gay marriage or any other issue) … I don’t think this individual should have lost his job.

    He may be a tool, and a huge T-I-T besides – video-ing himself acting like a bully and then posting it on YouTube, but even so, I don’t think what he said rises to the level of being fired from his job.

    In fact, if there is a petition to sign to get him his job back – I’m sure there is – I will gladly sign it.

    RB Glennie (cbc996)

  105. oh you’re right they *are* poppy seeds but yeah they get everywhere

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  106. How many of the people going there to show support are going to show support for free speech, as Greenwald does, and not to show support for bigotry?

    They’re indefensible, morally, and even more important, they’re a losing cause.

    Comment by still sleeeeepy — 8/3/2012 @ 1:38 pm

    World English Dictionary
    bigot (ˈbɪɡət)
    — n
    a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race.

    big·ot [big-uht]
    noun
    a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

    Hmmmmm, doesn’t say a thing about sexual proclivities, but it does point to religion and politics. Since Mr. Cathy expressed his opinion as morally based on his religion, and it is also a political opinion due to the SSM fiasco, it seems that not only are you the bigot, Mr. Sleepyhead, but you are doubly bigoted by calling Mr. Cathy a bigot.

    So go suck on a tailpipe, BIGOT!

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  107. The essential argument being raised by some folks lately seems to be, “You disagree with me because you are a hateful bigot, whereas I disagree with you because you are a hateful bigot.”

    I was not too thrilled with this guy’s behavior. I expected, given all I had read, that it was going to be much worse. Should he have been fired? Well, once he’d been publicly linked to his employer, it would bring much grief to them and possibly cost them money and a hit to their reputation. This guy’s now out of work in a bad economy, and has ensured that this story will follow him on job applications for years. I’m not altogether happy with that outcome, though it’d have obviously been easily avoidable.

    My impression Wednesday was that the overworked staff at Chick-fil-A were being quite friendly and attentive. And the mob of people packed in the store were not merely being courteous, but actually looking out for one another.

    I’ve always had good feelings about Chick-fil-A; they even let our church pass out candy canes at the mall on Christmas Eve one year. I take note of how some from the company have taken stands on social issues which will get others bent out of shape. The positions are consistent with church teaching, however, and I think the idea that they not be permitted to acknowledge this would be problematic.

    tek (d55869)

  108. BTW, I am glad the jerk lost his job. Stupid jerk harasses a clerk just courteously doing her job, videotapes himself being a jackass, and posts it on youtube. What does he expect to happen? Definitely wouldn’t want his stupidity on display at my company.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  109. 110 smith now claims he is being threatened and cannot remain in his home. It was all just a big misunderstanding and the conservative Christians are mean to him. His own company didn’t even give him a hearing…violins playing. Check the interview link at #87. He says two of the kids are adopted special needs kids. If true, what is up with that? I’m sure his contract likely has a nice severance package, unlike the girl at the drive-in window.

    Calypso Louis Farrakhan (e799d8)

  110. Yeah Louis, now he is the victim. Typical leftie for you. Gets his butt in hot water all by himself, and now he claims that everybody has misunderstood his kind and caring persona.

    I call Bullshat on that!

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  111. tek typed:

    This guy’s now out of work in a bad economy, and has ensured that this story will follow him on job applications for years. I’m not altogether happy with that outcome, though it’d have obviously been easily avoidable.

    Yeah, it would have been easily avoidable if he hadn’t been a jerk. Because he is a jerk, and tried his own version of MTV’s Jackass, he’s out of work, and justifiably so: mail room clerks can (usually) get away with stuff like that, but corporate officers cannot.

    You’re right: this will follow him for years, and I’d suggest that it’s time he changed his name; to Milton Friedman, perhaps?

    The businessman Dana (f68855)

  112. night fever night fever we know how to show it

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  113. Mr Smith wants our sympathy because he’s out of work and adopted two “special needs” children. It seems to me that that means there are three people in the family with “special needs.”

    The Dana who can be a jerk, too (f68855)


  114. night fever night fever we know how to show it

    Comment by happyfeet — 8/3/2012 @ 4:48 pm

    LOL

    are you referring to his purported Facebook page shows a few likes, one of which is the Bee Gees?

    It’s hilarious either way

    no one you know (7ecbf6)

  115. *which* shows a few likes

    no one you know (7ecbf6)

  116. He says two of the kids are adopted special needs kids. If true, what is up with that? I’m sure his contract likely has a nice severance package, unlike the girl at the drive-in window.

    He’s a parent, his job by default is to think of those two special needs kids *before* he chooses to do any unnecessary thing that might have a negative impact or jeopardize them in any way.

    That’s sort of a huge part of being a parent.

    Dana (292dcf)

  117. I heard about this guy earlier in the day but didn’t watch it until now. I’m a 43 year old dude and this guy almost brought me to tears with how mean he was being to her. She was so uncomfortable and handled it so well.

    The irony is his parting comments are, “the hate has got to stop.” Or something to that effect. I would have fired him too. He thought he was being clever and a crusader or something but he was really just being downright mean.

    Thank goodness I’m not a tolerant, open minded, compassionate liberal like this guy any more. So much bile.

    And this is exactly why I went and bought some nuggets and a shake on August 1. I’m proud I went. Just as I’m proud I marched in San Diego’s Gay Pride parade twice. My brother is gay and I love him more than anything. But this type of totalitarian treatment is exactly what has to stop in this country. Leftists, we’ve had it with your tactics. Knock it off.

    Barry (3a1aff)

  118. He’s a parent, his job by default is to think of those two special needs kids *before* he chooses to do any unnecessary thing that might have a negative impact or jeopardize them in any way.

    That’s sort of a huge part of being a parent.

    Comment by Dana — 8/3/2012 @ 4:56 pm

    Yep yep. A much more eloquent way of saying “should have thought of that before you did it.”

    His kids and wife didn’t deserve this. It’s too bad they have to suffer for his self absorbed attention hounding.

    no one you know (7ecbf6)

  119. The much prettier Dana wrote:

    He’s a parent, his job by default is to think

    OK, I think that we can end the quote there, because it’s clear that Mr Smith is deficient in critical thinking skills. The answer to the question, “What was he thinking?” is almost always, “He wasn’t.”

    The uglier Dana (f68855)

  120. While the plight of his family is sad, he did receive a christian education on the validity of evolution … when he Darwinianly-selected himself out of the workforce … those Creationists are SO diabolical !

    Alasdair (81fcf1)

  121. I suppose, under the circumstances, that it’s kind of hard for him to be arguing that innocent people are being hurt.

    tek (d55869)

  122. You know, people do stupid things; cue the old Vonage commercials here. But most of the time, stupid things are done quickly, without a whole lot of time taken to think about them. The esteemed Mr Smith had to get his camera, drive to Chick-fil-A, sit in a long line, engage in his jerkery, drive to someplace where he could download the video to his computer, log in to YouTube, and then post the idiot thing. That’s probably a two-hour process, by the time all is said and done, if not even longer, and it apparently never crossed his mind that hey, maybe this isn’t the smartest thing I could do.

    The amused Dana (f68855)

  123. No one really stopped talking about the reasons why today was as busy as it was. The people I work alongside kept going on and on about how powerful it was to be part of such a righteous movement, and how encouraged they were to know that there were so many people who agree with Dan Cathy. They went on at great length about how it was wrong not just for gays to marry, but to exist. One kid, age 19, said “I hope the gays go hungry.”

    Comment by aphrael — 8/3/2012 @ 1:54 pm

    I’d say that was a made up illusion injected intot he rumor mill. And then astroturfed out the appropirate feeds. The only group I know that talks like that at work are o-bots and scientologists.

    scable (40a8c6)

  124. The only place tolerant enough now to hire Mr. Smith is probably Chick-fil-a

    scable (40a8c6)

  125. Most people that shout at retail for no good reason are either very immature or very self centered. A Dale Carnegie course is in order for Mr Smith.

    scable (40a8c6)

  126. I blame reality TV for this latest expose

    scable (40a8c6)

  127. “No one really stopped talking about the reasons why today was as busy as it was. The people I work alongside kept going on and on about how powerful it was to be part of such a righteous movement, and how encouraged they were to know that there were so many people who agree with Dan Cathy. They went on at great length about how it was wrong not just for gays to marry, but to exist. One kid, age 19, said “I hope the gays go hungry.”

    I hope you are capable of realizing that these are kids who have been attacked by adults. They may not have the judgement expected of the CFO of a medical device company. I was in a Chick fil A today and was impressed with how polite the employees were in spite of crowds. My thought was that maybe they were thinking their jobs were pretty safe now.

    One of the friendliest was a black girl (not that common in south Orange County) and there were lots of employees. About twice the number you’d see in an In N Out burger that was as busy.

    Mike K (326cba)

  128. What happened to Mr. Smith is exactly what he wanted to have happen to R*****… He even made sure to say her name in the video so that she would be “identified and harassed” via her youtube “performance”.

    Mr. Smith was a prick (first time I have ever used that word on a forum) who was trying to virtually rape the young woman (who me? i was just trying to stand up for civil rights).

    Now he is sorry that the blow-back is affecting him (and he is using his own family for cover).

    Nope–don’t give a **** yet about Mr. Smith.

    BfC (fd87e7)

  129. Memba how much compassion Sarah and Sarah’s special needs kid got in certain circles?

    elissa (2af611)


  130. Memba how much compassion Sarah and Sarah’s special needs kid got in certain circles?

    Comment by elissa — 8/3/2012 @ 5:52 pm

    Well…to be fair, Mr. Smith’s raising of special needs children speaks to his sense of compassion, empathy and inherent goodness as a person.

    The chillbilly hick? She just bore the retard spawn so she could cart him around and make political hay of him. And to give herself cover for the antigay bigotry, hypocrisy and hate.

    Or something.

    no one you know (7ecbf6)

  131. Memba how much compassion Sarah and Sarah’s special needs kid got in certain circles?

    Comment by elissa — 8/3/2012 @ 5:52 pm

    Well…to be fair, Mr. Smith’s raising of special needs children speaks to his sense of compassion, empathy and inherent goodness as a person.

    The chillbilly hick? She just bore the spawn so she could cart him around and make political hay of him. And to give herself cover for the antigay bigotry, hypocrisy and hate.

    Or something.

    no one you know (7ecbf6)

  132. Well…to be fair, Mr. Smith’s raising of special needs children speaks to his sense of compassion, empathy and inherent goodness as a person.

    Comment by no one you know — 8/3/2012 @ 6:03 pm

    Not necessarily NOYK. Saw a news special not too long ago that outlined how some of these oh so compassionate people were milking the system by adopting these special needs children just to get the govt. checks that come with them, and then basically not seeing to the children’s needs. Not saying that this is what he is doing, but I remain skeptical due to his treatment of that poor girl. If this is the way he treats the special needs children, I hope his ass is being investigated right now by Children and Family services.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  133. POA wrote:

    I hope his ass is being investigated right now by Children and Family services.

    If he is a foster parent, he will be unable to afford to keep the two special needs kids on his unemployment compensation checks; if he has legally adopted them, his impending poverty won’t mean that he loses his children.

    Maybe his wife has a good job.

    The parental Dana (f68855)

  134. I’m willing to give Adam Smith the benefit of the doubt that he cares about kids and even other people generally.

    Also, that he’s an insufferable douche.

    Random (edf1d2)

  135. Mr. Smith was a prick (first time I have ever used that word on a forum) who was trying to virtually rape the young woman ….

    Alright, this is hysterical bullshit. Chill out.

    Random (edf1d2)

  136. Mr. Smith was a prick (first time I have ever used that word on a forum) who was trying to virtually rape the young woman ….

    Alright, this is hysterical bullsh’t. Chill out.

    Random (edf1d2)

  137. I agree, Random. All of us as human beings and parents err in judgment at times. Extra unfortunate for him is that his inglorious moment of bullying also included his further unwise decision of videotaping and uploading it.

    Dana (292dcf)

  138. …with #133.

    Dana (292dcf)

  139. The Dana who sugar-coated it wrote:

    his further unwise decision

    I would replace that with “his utter stupidity.”

    The very direct Dana (f68855)

  140. Yeah, we’ve all had bad days where maybe we treated someone less well than we should have. But uploading a video of it to YouTube is a bridge too far.

    Random (edf1d2)

  141. Wait. I need to clarify: I believe Mr. Smith cares for his children and wife – I have no reason not to. He was clearly employed and able to bring home a hefty portion of bacon to take care of said family. I’m sure he was polite at work in as much as he was at the top wrung. You cannot walk all over everyone on the way up these days without facing HR repercussions. So, in this sense, he was likely a normal average responsible person who cared about his family’s provision and well being.

    With that though, he is a bully, which makes me question how “nice” he really is in general. Perhaps on the surface and perhaps to those he *has* to be nice with/to, but to what about other people he disagreed with and were in a vulnerable position? I don’t know. Or was his moment of bullying the young woman a moment where his self-righteousness overtook his sense of courtesy and decency?

    Dana (292dcf)

  142. i hope he eats pop rocks and then drinks a whole entire big gulp

    see ya wouldn’t wanna be ya

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  143. I’ve done some really ignorant things in my life, but Mr. Smith is obviously a professional.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  144. I don’t know if Smith is a bully in his daily life — my guess is he’s not — but he felt empowered to bully here because he thinks his position on gay rights and same sex marriage makes him morally superior to Chick-Fil-A supporters and workers. IOW his moral superiority entitles him to bully and belittle others who don’t share his views.

    Much like our President.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  145. Milhouse, at 93, I completely agree that it’s unfair to attribute the behavior of the individuals working at one store to the Cathy family. I think the article I linked went off the rails to some degree; I linked it primarily for an example of bad behavior on the part of chic-fil-a employees, since someone had asked for evidence backing up that claim.

    I very much doubt she brought it to her manager’s attention. One of the problems with being in the closet is that *anything* that has a remote chance of outing you terrifies you; in the imagination of a closeted person, complaining about such behavior by coworkers runs far too great a risk of triggering the question “why do you care so much? are you gay?” And since the entire reason that you’re *in* the closet, for most people, is that you’re afraid of the bad things that you imagine will happen if you come out of the closet, running that risk would simply be too great for most closeted people.

    aphrael (24797a)

  146. Mike K, *even if* the coworkers in question had been attacked by adults, that wouldn’t excuse their behavior. And if *they* are kids whose behavior is understandable given the circumstances – which you seem to be implying – then the author of the piece I linked, who is more than likely in their age cohort, is closeted, and appears to be terrified – isn’t she at least as deserving of empathy as they are?

    I don’t want to make a big deal out of this; I think it’s an isolated incident in a single store and doesn’t generalize. It’s certainly not grounds to attack *the chain as a whole*.

    But comments like yours which seem to minimize it without even acknowledging the situation it put the author of the article in, bother me.

    aphrael (24797a)

  147. First of all, I’m a cashier, though not at Chick-Fil-A. I work at an office supply store and I’m a hardworking employee and a good salesperson.

    I highly recommend both the food and the service at Chick-Fil-A. Mmmmmmm!

    Kudos to Chick-fil-A cashier Rebecca for all-around classy behavior.

    As cashiers, we are trained to be polite to customers, without fail, no matter how they treat us. I have found that sometimes the most (ahem) exacting customers can become friendly if treated well enough. If somebody insists on being a meany-head, it’s between that person and his or her Maker; it is not appropriate for us to pass judgment.

    Adam Smith was not fired for exercising his First Amendment rights. Had he simply made a statement that he supported gay marriage, nobody would have cared. He was fired for abusive, out-of-control behavior in a public place, and for having the poor judgment to compound that offense by posting the video of his behavior on YouTube.

    No employer wants an employee, or even a contractor, who is such a loose cannon that he or she might “go postal.”

    I heartily agree that this cashier deserves a promotion. According to the Chick-Fil-A business model, all Chick-Fil-A stores are franchises. It’s up to the franchisee to promote his or her cashiers or other employees to supervisory positions.

    1389AD (960631)

  148. The only way she could impress me even more would be if she were invited to appear on several different shows such as Hannity, GMA, or whatever CNN currently is struggling to keep afloat – and she respectfully declined all such offers.

    Dagwood (2bbb25)

  149. This has been implied by others already, but I’d like to put a fine point on it. His stupidity was reason enough to fire him. Ok, so he behaved badly — everyone has lapses. But he recorded and uploaded his vile behavior. That was not a momentary lapse in judgment. Can you imagine letting this slide, and then trying to explain your decision if/when he does something that costs your company big money? No company wants that sort of exposure.

    Cynic Number One (f0812c)

  150. The only way she could impress me even more would be if she were invited to appear on several different shows such as Hannity, GMA, or whatever CNN currently is struggling to keep afloat – and she respectfully declined all such offers.

    Because God forbid she should promote herself, or take advantage of a big break to jump up a few rungs on the later. Instead, she should go into humble Puritan-ethic mode and double-down on working her way up to swing shift manager.

    Random (edf1d2)

  151. Comment by still stooooopid — 8/3/2012 @ 10:57 am
    She should not need to be a spokesperson.
    — That’s what WE said! Thanks for agreeing.

    That’s she can’t say what she thinks is due the fact that there IS politics in her workplace: Dan Cathy’s politics.
    — Lie #1: There are no politics IN her workplace.
    — Lie #2: She “can’t say what she thinks” because, like ANY good franchise worth it’s salt, employees are not allowed to discuss politics with customers. Such a policy is irrespective of any corporate political stance.
    — Lie #3: Your implication that the woman might share this jerkoff’s political view. You have NO proof that this is true, yet you implied it all the same.

    She should be able disagree with her bosses and say it publicly.
    — At work, on the clock & in uniform? No, she shouldn’t. But, ONCE AGAIN, you are implying (with no proof whatsoever!) that she disagrees with the political contributions made by corporate. If you keep this up you’re gonna head into f***ing liar territory.

    But I’m sure a lot of the customer base is as bigoted as they are.
    — Gotta love this one’s liberal use of the non sequitur.

    The guy in the car shouldn’t have tried to humiliate her for needing to pay the rent but here reaction was spineless. If she feels she has no choice to be spineless that’s a problem.
    — So now you’re getting on her case for NOT getting in his grill about being a jerk? Or are you still being a f***ing liar by alleging that she really wanted to say “right on, brother”?

    I wouldn’t care if Cathy were a Gay billionaire democrat with a villa in South Beach, I hate corporate culture.
    — Whatever floats your boatski, comrade.

    Icy (b7e253)

  152. Comment by still sleeeeepy — 8/3/2012 @ 1:38 pm
    There are gay people at Chick-Fil-A who are at work right now and you can bet they’re putting up with all sorts of abuse being spewed by people who have no idea who they’re talking to.
    — This statement would matter . . . IF you had even a scintilla of evidence that such a thing was occurring.

    DO you have ANY evidence? I didn’t think so — f***ing liar.

    How many of the people going there to show support are going to show support for free speech, as Greenwald does, and not to show support for bigotry?
    — Once again, you have not one scintilla of evidence to support your assertion. You don’t know the intent of those that are showing up.

    Oh, and by the way, bigoted speech is still protected speech — so even if you’re right, you’re still wrong.

    They’re indefensible, morally, and even more important, they’re a losing cause.
    — When did it become ‘morally indefensible’ to support traditional marriage? And the results of ballot issues voting on same-sex marriage says that you’re wrong about that, too.

    Icy (b7e253)

  153. Would the lamestream media ever dare print these pictures from the Hollyweird nimrods’ kiss in? And they call Christians godtards?

    http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/08/03/chick-fil-a-kiss-in-hollywood-the pictures/

    Calypso Louis Farrakhan (e799d8)

  154. I’m a bourgie leftie. But if I ran a business I wouldn’t give my people a script to read off I’d just demand that they be polite even on a bad day.
    Comment by still sleeeeepy — 8/3/2012 @ 3:06 pm

    — And your proof that she was reading off of a script is WHAT?

    Oh, that’s right; you don’t have any proof.

    F***ing liar.

    Icy (b7e253)

  155. that’s my chick fil a what’s closest to me but I haven’t been yet in the background of the fred flintstone pic it looks like a buncha codgers are there

    I wonder where you park

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  156. FWIW, I don’t think he was hitting on her AT ALL.

    Icy (b7e253)

  157. And the woman’s name is Rachel. I don’t know where someone came up with “Rebecca”.

    Icy (b7e253)

  158. the Amish chick’s name in Witness was Rachel

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  159. My ex-wife’s name is Rachel.

    What does it all mean?

    Icy (b7e253)

  160. Just a gut-check here. The problem is the economy and the useless President.

    Carry on.

    happy, just do whatever you do for whatever reason.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  161. Adam Smith has posted an “Apologies and Clarifications” video (via Legal Insurrection).

    At least he apologized. IMO he should have stopped there. But couldn’t help thinking: if he truly was sorry the moment he said the words, then why did he upload the video?

    no one you know (7ecbf6)

  162. The much prettier Dana asked:

    Or was his moment of bullying the young woman a moment where his self-righteousness overtook his sense of courtesy and decency?

    To me, a “sense of courtesy and decency” is something that some people have without thinking about it at all, and such things are rarely overcome; when they are, it is usually just for a few minutes, and this event took a couple of hours, at least, from start to finish. I think it more probable that Mr Smith has to actually work on personal courtesy, and that it doesn’t come to him naturally.

    The Dana who was taught manners by his mother (3e4784)

  163. “This is revealing in so many different aspects of his personality and can be a teachable moment for people to stop, think, be aware of your total life context before you pull stunts like this. You could end up living your middle age in your mother’s basement if you do crap like this.”

    Comment by crosspatch — 8/3/2012
    —–

    Well-stated. I share your sentiments. And that sense of tact, propriety and self-restraint is all the more important in this age of “social media,” where people’s egos and their infantile need to be seen and heard transcend their normal editorial and self-censoring mechanisms (assuming these are present to begin with). In this regard, Twitter is the most inane and insidious conduit for this loss of tact. People think that every synaptic dropping is pure rhetorical gold, a nugget of wit and insight that is worth sharing with the world. And 99.99 percent of the time, it is not. The urge to be a self-perceived moral crusader standing up for righteousness and adored by millions, as Mr. Smith intended to be with his misguided video antics, is no different in this regard.

    Guy Jones (851e14)

  164. aphrael wrote:

    I very much doubt she brought it to her manager’s attention. One of the problems with being in the closet is that *anything* that has a remote chance of outing you terrifies you; in the imagination of a closeted person, complaining about such behavior by coworkers runs far too great a risk of triggering the question “why do you care so much? are you gay?” And since the entire reason that you’re *in* the closet, for most people, is that you’re afraid of the bad things that you imagine will happen if you come out of the closet, running that risk would simply be too great for most closeted people.

    For someone who is probably a late teens to early twenties young woman, is she really so deep in the closet that her friends and co-workers don’t know? Young people talk, and one of their favorite subjects is sex and boyfriends and girlfriends and their personal lives and what they did last night. The person in that age group who just absolutely won’t talk about it or changes the subject is going to be speculated about, almost immediately.

    In my admittedly limited experience, I’ve never met anyone who “came out” that everybody who knew him didn’t already know.

    The serious Dana (3e4784)

  165. And, to add one more thought to Crosspatch’s comments above — when I was a first-year law student, my school had an introductory briefing session with practicing attorneys who impressed upon us the seminal importance of A) preserving one’s reputation and maintaining one’s integrity at all times, because, at the end of the day, it’s the most important asset one has, and can be undone in an instant; and B) treating everyone — fellow attorneys, clerks, paralegals, secretaries, etc. — with courtesy and respect. Not merely because it helps to make your job easier, but because it’s plainly the right way to act and the right way to do things — not just in the legal profession, but in any industry, in all walks of life.

    It’s unfortunate that Mr Smith lost sight of these important lessons (if he ever absorbed them in the first place, on which score I have my doubts).

    Guy Jones (851e14)

  166. _____________________________________________

    I’ve never met anyone who “came out” that everybody who knew him didn’t already know.

    One of the reasons I’ve grown more skeptical about that, or the “GLBT” agenda overall, is because of at least a few people through the years who I’ve observed in the workplace who originally struck me as somewhat sexually ambiguous (ie, guys who had certain effeminate qualities, women who had certain male-ish qualities). I’d at first guess they were possibly homosexual, but then I’d hear them talking about opposite-sex partners or spouses, meaning of the traditional, non-SSM type, which would somewhat surprise me.

    That same dynamic is evident in the larger world, particularly among major celebrities who often are gossiped about as being gay (eg, John Travolta recently in the news, Tom Cruise and his recent divorce, or Ellen Degeneris’s girlfriend of a few years ago), who, at the most, apparently are bisexual.

    There apparently is a lot more free choice and free will among most people than the public is aware of or liberal activists want everyone to believe, even the ones who do acknowledge the “B” in “GLBT.”

    Mark (70c729)

  167. Slightly OT, but I think there’s an interesting question about whether or not Mr. Smith violated the first amendment. He was at the restaurant to invoke AZ’s law that restaurants provide free water on request, as punishment for the restaurant’s constitutionally protected speech.

    ShelbyC (2f4657)

  168. ShelbyC, you are a very, very, very silly person.

    Icy (b7e253)

  169. #162 “why did he upload the video?”

    To show off.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  170. Honestly, how big an idiot, do you have to be;

    http://supportcfarachel.com/

    narciso (ee31f1)

  171. His apology video sucked.

    JD (d636c8)

  172. I agree-his apology was lame. And I’m not gay…I’m not!

    pdbuttons (1ad69e)

  173. Unless the drive through jerk was on officially scheduled vacation, he committed his actions on COMPANY time. The calculation is that his endeavors took an absolute minimum of two hours and judging from reports of the drive through lines on Wednesday likely much longer. I am sure that his allowed time for lunch is no more than an hour so his low class adventure had to have been done at least partially on company time and possibly unloaded from company computers. This is indefensible and exactly why Smith had to be fired. Otherwise the company itself could be construed to approve and promote Smith’s actions. I am not a lawyer but it seems that his company could be liable for his actions if they did not fire him for misuse of company time and assets. He truly put the company in a bind and caused them some truly horrible public relations issues.

    TexasMom2012 (cee89f)

  174. What an insightful comment, icy.

    ShelbyC (2f4657)

  175. With his CFO experience he shouldn’t have much trouble getting a job is he sets his sights appropriately. Obviously he has a rage and ugliness problem, but if he’s willing to work, someone can make use of his management skills.

    For example, a McDonalds might need an Assistant Manager to help manage the various inventories and personnel. If he does well, he would be promoted.

    His firing doesn’t mean his children will starve. It means he needs to get a job. This job could teach him the compassion and respect he is currently lacking, if he’s under effective supervision. He should not be given a position that allows autonomy.

    Dustin (73fead)

  176. Shelby, the law for water isn’t abridging free speech because its purpose is legitimate. The abuse of this law is not a government action, and the first amendment only controls the government.

    So while it’s quite true that this man’s actions are intended to infringe free speech, it’s not the same kind of rights violation the mayors have been showing.

    Dustin (73fead)

  177. His apology video sucked.

    But, it exists and he apologized. With all its flaws, it’s still head-and-shoulders above most libs, who never apologize or admit fault.

    Repentance is the first step to salvation; let’s applaud this step, even if it is a faltering one.

    Pious Agnostic (ee2c24)

  178. Notice how he stressed the fact that he was Hetero. All the signs of latent homosexuality.

    Dennis D (b17ac9)

  179. Notice how he stressed the fact that he was Hetero. All the signs of latent homosexuality.

    Comment by Dennis D

    NTTAWWT

    Teh Light-Loafering Colonel Haiku (f5861d)

  180. A commenter on YouTube suggested setting up a College Fund for Rachel.

    Well, why not? She’d be a phenomenal future employee or leader, wouldn’t she? Why not give her the education to do so at a higher level, and earn for herself a higher salary?

    SHE should be the one earning six-figures.

    So, why doesn’t someone here set one up?

    You could use the same fundraising company as was used for Karen Klein, the Bus Monitor.

    Random (edf1d2)

  181. we don’t really know Rachel all that well what if she has dark secrets

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  182. I watched the esteemed Mr Smith’s apology vidiot, and my impression of it was that he was absolutely furious when he made it. When I watch his hands, especially in the first part of the video, I see strong emotion, I see frustration, I see a man who doesn’t believe what he is saying in the apology, a man who does not want to apologize, but who believes that he must do something, anything, to limit the damage he has caused to himself and his family.

    Many words came to mind when I watched that video; “sincere” was not one of them.

    The Dana who doubts his sincerity (3e4784)

  183. we don’t really know Rachel all that well what if she has dark secrets

    Comment by happyfeet

    She should release her tax returns NOW!!!

    Colonel Haiku (f5861d)

  184. She claims she cannot release 10 years of tax returns! WHAT IS SHE HIDING?

    Pious Agnostic (ee2c24)

  185. We should feel sorry for Smith
    A ‘pology he came out with
    Alas! it’s his fate
    It came out too late
    Karma; ain’t it a bitch?

    The Limerick Avenger (3e4784)

  186. The reaction made his head bob;
    “From whence came this great mob?”
    He hasn’t a clue
    ‘Bout what he should do,
    Other than look for a job.

    The Limerick Avenger (3e4784)

  187. That last one was AWESOME, Limerick.

    Random (edf1d2)

  188. My favorite part of the apology video is how Adam Smith was defending Vante for their unprofessionalism.

    Random (edf1d2)

  189. Mr. Smith’s comments were utterly misguided and inappropriate. He fully deserved to reap the consequences of what he sowed. And, the following supposition is not intended to be construed as condoning or rationalizing his conduct in any way. But — my theory (admitedly based on conjecture) — the guy is tragically in the closet. Which, to me, at least partly explains the palpably frustrated demeanor and anger contained in his initial berating video. This guy is hiding his homosexuality from his wife, kids and (former) employer. And, so, in Smith’s mind, the video was his way, as a closeted gay man, to strike a blow “for the team,” so to speak. A straight man simply would not feel as outraged as Smith does in his video (nor feel the need to proclaim his purported heterosexuality). I know Smith has made himself out to be an unsympthetic figure, but his situation is an unfortunate one, if my speculation is correct. It doesn’t excuse his actions, but it does partly explain them.

    For the record, my brother is gay, and I do support gay marriage. But I also believe that reasonable people can fairly — and civilly — disagree on the issue. And if one is going to express one’s opinion on any issue, pro or con, Mr. Smith’s antics do not represent the proper manner in which to go about it. I hope he learns from this incident and uses it to become a better person. I mean that sincerely. Like a lot of folks, I’ve expressed my disgust with his behavior. But, at a certain point, the contempt that I held for him with respect to this incident has to morph into something more positive. So, yes, I’m hoping that, out of this lesson, Smith evolves into a more compassionate, more courteous person. And that he can eventually find peace with who he is. And that all of us, whatever our respective stances on gay marriage or any other social or political issue, can strive to debate and discuss our positions with civility, calm and open minds.

    Guy Jones (851e14)

  190. The serious Dana,

    (a) i’ve met people who, when they came out, everyone around them was surprised. it’s not the usual case, but it’s a common enough thing to not be uncommon.

    (b) when *I* came out, at 27, having been deep, deep, deep in the closet, everyone knew

    (c) my experience suggests that even if everyone around you knows, if you’re deep in the closet, you don’t know that they know, can’t admit to yourself the possibility that they would know, and are terrified that they might find out.

    so, yeah, maybe the people around her know – in which case, the kinds of comments she is reporting are even more inexcusable – but *if they do*, she doesn’t know they do.

    aphrael (24797a)

  191. One of the reasons I’ve grown more skeptical about that, or the “GLBT” agenda overall, is because of at least a few people through the years who I’ve observed in the workplace who originally struck me as somewhat sexually ambiguous (ie, guys who had certain effeminate qualities, women who had certain male-ish qualities). I’d at first guess they were possibly homosexual, but then I’d hear them talking about opposite-sex partners or spouses, meaning of the traditional, non-SSM type, which would somewhat surprise me.

    It seems you spend way more time in the workplace considering other people’s sexuality. I can’t think of when I’ve observed a colleague and wondered for any length of time, which way they might swing. Perhaps I’m old school, but I think it’s a bit rude and invasive – like violating their privacy and mostly, I just don’t care. It’s not going to change whether they are ethical, have integrity and treat others respectfully.

    In two instances, I was directly “informed”: a well-known lesbian (who regularly self-announced…) from another department awkwardly fished/flirted with me one day (she didn’t know me), I figured it out rather quickly and began blathering about my pretty normal hetero life (hub, kids) and she moved on. No harm, no foul. Another was a fellow at the top who desperately wanted everyone to know his status, very flamboyantly so. Okay, fine, you’re gay and make an amazing sartorial impression, but are you a decent and kind person, that’s what I wanted to know. And later discovered that, no, he really wasn’t. He was insecure in his authority and thus a control freak who ended up making employees nuts.

    Dana (292dcf)

  192. What an insightful comment, icy.
    Comment by ShelbyC — 8/4/2012 @ 8:40 am

    — Did you read Dustin’s response? Do you understand and agree with his explanation? I was trying to be nice!

    Icy (b7e253)

  193. Notice how he stressed the fact that he was Hetero. All the signs of latent homosexuality.
    Comment by Dennis D — 8/4/2012 @ 8:50 am

    — I’m thinking that he “stressed” not being gay as a means of giving his comments credibility (“I’m not a militant gay activist; therefore, my stance is objective and reasoned”).

    Icy (b7e253)

  194. My ten-year old watched the drive-in window video. Her words, “he sounds effeminate”.

    In related news, there’s more lesbian action in a single Olympics beach volleyball game than in all the Chik-Fil-A kiss-ins. Very disappointing.

    nk (875f57)

  195. teh Avenger avenges…

    Colonel Haiku (f5861d)

  196. Aphrael – did his “I am not in the closet but would be very proud if I was in the closet” strike you as odd?

    JD (d636c8)

  197. with apologies to teh andrew lloyd webber…

    don’t cry for Smith, gay America
    you were to watch the vid and chortle
    my mad performance
    it was teh bath salts
    now unemployment
    I rilly screwed pooch…

    Colonel Haiku (f5861d)

  198. In related news, there’s more lesbian action in a single Olympics beach volleyball game than in all the Chik-Fil-A kiss-ins. Very disappointing.

    What’s disappointing: the beach volleyball games? Not in the least :)

    Actually, I’m not watching the Olympics much, and I don’t watch beach volleyball at all. But I always giggle when I scan through the channel guide and it says “XXX Summer Olympics”

    Chuck Bartowski (99415f)

  199. These are photos from the Hollywood “Kiss In”. My guess would be that they didn’t win any converts to their cause. It seems to be more about shocking and outraging the very people they want to convince of their love and normality. Denigrating Christianity and mocking Christ, mocking the historical marriage between a man and woman, shoving overt sexuality in the public’s face (not the kissing, but the other stuff), and an underlying feel of hostility isn’t exactly a welcoming mat to the cause.

    I think that those who don’t agree, still don’t agree – and perhaps even moreso now. And those who do support SSM, do so just as much.

    Sex and love are the most easily misappropriated terms and definitions in our modern culture.

    Dana (292dcf)

  200. Sex and love are the most easily misappropriated terms and definitions in our modern culture.

    Comment by Dana

    and “HATE”… what’s known as “HATE” these days used to be known as “Disagreement”.

    Colonel Haiku (f5861d)

  201. an underlying feel of hostility

    Yep, Dana. That’s what resonates the most. That’s why Mr Smith has defined this movement. That’s why the mayors who want to thug a company out of their area define this movement.

    These people didn’t realize they are a minority that enjoys tremendous tolerance from others, and needs to persuade. They figured they could expose their own intolerance, and that is quite a miscalculation.

    Dustin (73fead)

  202. 203. Interesting take.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  203. I very much doubt she brought it to her manager’s attention. One of the problems with being in the closet is that *anything* that has a remote chance of outing you terrifies you; in the imagination of a closeted person, complaining about such behavior by coworkers runs far too great a risk of triggering the question “why do you care so much? are you gay?” And since the entire reason that you’re *in* the closet, for most people, is that you’re afraid of the bad things that you imagine will happen if you come out of the closet, running that risk would simply be too great for most closeted people.

    That was why I added “discreetly”. But that assumes not only that the manager is a reasonable person who would react negatively to knowing that she is gay, let alone to a complaint about homophobic talk in the workplace, but also that she knows this to be true. And that’s a big assumption, so you make a good point.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  204. For someone who is probably a late teens to early twenties young woman, is she really so deep in the closet that her friends and co-workers don’t know? Young people talk, and one of their favorite subjects is sex and boyfriends and girlfriends and their personal lives and what they did last night. The person in that age group who just absolutely won’t talk about it or changes the subject is going to be speculated about, almost immediately.

    In my admittedly limited experience, I’ve never met anyone who “came out” that everybody who knew him didn’t already know.

    Yes, but she doesn’t know that. The person in question never does.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  205. I think there’s an interesting question about whether or not Mr. Smith violated the first amendment.

    How could he? He is not Congrefs.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  206. Poor Adam Smith! Not only does he beclown himself before the entire nation, but he also contributes to the new, higher unemployment numbers!

    What do you call the opposite of a win-win?

    Icy (dc7d2c)

  207. If Mr. Smith actually has a wife and additionally kids they have no reason now to think he might, just maybe, be straight.

    The apology is gayer than Liberace.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  208. 93. I’ve choked a few down but can’t say I entered the convenience store in search of one precisely.

    Was the trip Ok or MN too bucolic for your taste?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  209. @Icy, “Did you read Dustin’s response? Do you understand and agree with his explanation? I was trying to be nice!”

    No, Dustin actually responded with a legitimate comment. You did not.

    ShelbyC (2f4657)

  210. @Dunstin, “The abuse of this law is not a government action, and the first amendment only controls the government.”

    Well, the first amendment does not only control the government, it can also control private entities in circumstances, such as prisons, public utilities delegated state powers, etc. As I said, I think the question of whether someone who is given the power by the state to compel another to give him free water is a state actor is an interesting one.

    ShelbyC (2f4657)

  211. Dennis D wrote:

    Notice how he stressed the fact that he was Hetero. All the signs of latent homosexuality.

    I look at that differently: by stressing that he is heterosexual, he is saying, inter alia, that the opinion he was expressing would somehow be less valid if he was homosexual. That takes the underlying assumption that homosexuals complaining about Dan Cathy’s position are doing so only as special pleaders and directly interested parties, but his claim, in itself, reaffirms that notion.

    The realistic Dana (f68855)

  212. ______________________________________________

    I can’t think of when I’ve observed a colleague and wondered for any length of time, which way they might swing. Perhaps I’m old school, but I think it’s a bit rude and invasive – like violating their privacy and mostly

    I’d say most people naturally make assumptions about people who they’re observing, based upon even limited information. It’s a given that someone who we’re dealing with sends out clues based on things like how he or she dresses, speaks, acts. But that doesn’t mean we just blurt out what we’re thinking or assuming at the time.

    And that goes double for any assumptions we may make about a person’s sexuality, if only because such assumptions have traditionally been influenced by lots of naivete and ignorance, which the left generally likes to exploit.

    So the left proclaims that GLBT people (while shrugging off the “B” in GLBT) are “similar to a racial minority! They’re similar to females in a male chauvinistic world! They don’t have a choice in who they are! We need civil rights for them just like what various racial or ethnic groups have received! GLBT people need an Americans With Disabilities Act no less that what the handicapped have received!”

    yahoo.com, October 2011:

    A new study reveals that women’s sexual preferences tend to be a gray area (yep, identity confusion wasn’t just for those college dorm days). In fact, researchers at Boise State University found that in a group of heterosexual women, 60 percent were physically interested in other women, 45 percent made out with a woman in the past, and 50 percent had fantasies about the same sex.

    Experts support this view. “Women are encouraged to be emotionally close to each other,” says psychology professor Elizabeth Morgan. “That provides an opportunity for intimacy and romantic feelings to develop.” From talking about personal issues for hours to calling each other “lovers”….women’s friendships are often barely distinguishable from romantic relationships.

    When heterosexual women hook up with other women, their relationships is based on an emotional connection. Lisa Diamond from the University of Utah believes that it only takes the right person for convince a woman to enter into a relationship with someone of the same sex.

    Does that make them bisexual? Not exactly. “You can still be heterosexual and have interests, experiences or fantasies with the same sex,” says Morgan.

    In addition, sexuality gets more, not less, fluid with time – yet more proof that experimentation isn’t just for college. In a study conducted by Diamond, the older a woman was, the more likely she was to describe her sexual preference as “unlabeled”. “We have this idea that sexuality gets clearer and more defined as time goes on,” says Diamond. “We consider that a sign of maturity to figure out who you are. I’ve seen it’s really the opposite.”

    Neuroscientist Ogi Ogas, Ph.D., analyzed billions of web information including web searches, erotic websites and e-books, and found that women are just as likely to search for “sexy pictures of Ryan Gosling” as “sexy pictures of Jessica Alba.”

    ^ This is another reason why I think society should start using the word “bisexual” more than “gay” or “lesbian.” Of course, if that ends up fostering the idea that sexuality is lot more prone to free choice and free will than generally assumed, the left may have a tougher time in making the GLBT crowd seem like pity-poor victims, or certainly making them analogous to another racial or ethnic minority in America.

    Mark (70c729)

  213. @Icy, “Did you read Dustin’s response? Do you understand and agree with his explanation? I was trying to be nice!”
    No, Dustin actually responded with a legitimate comment. You did not.
    Comment by ShelbyC — 8/5/2012 @ 6:39 am

    — Okay, you win.

    Stay tuned.

    Icy (dc7d2c)

  214. Comment by ShelbyC — 8/4/2012 @ 6:54 am
    Slightly OT
    — Slightly OM (Off-Meds) would be more like it.

    I think there’s an interesting question about whether or not Mr. Smith violated the first amendment.
    “Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech”. And exactly WHAT law did this private citizen make? And exactly HOW did he abridge anyone’s freedom of speech?

    He was at the restaurant to invoke AZ’s law that restaurants provide free water on request, as punishment for the restaurant’s constitutionally protected speech.
    — Uh-huh. But, but Shelby, if the law is that they have to provide him with water regardless of whether or not he gives a reason for why he wants it, then WHY does the reason he gave for wanting it matter at all?

    How is the restaurant “punished” by being asked to do something that they are legally obligated to do?

    Comment by ShelbyC — 8/5/2012 @ 6:45 am
    Well, the first amendment does not only control the government
    — Really. So the “Congress shall make no law” part extends beyond government and encompasses ANYONE that makes any kind of rules? including, in the case of Adam Smith, a private citizen?

    it can also control private entities in circumstances, such as prisons, public utilities delegated state powers, etc.
    — Okey-dokey. This is fascinating. Could you please provide a list of private entities that have had “state powers” delegated to them, along with an enumerated list of what those powers are?

    I think the question of whether someone who is given the power by the state to compel another to give him free water is a state actor is an interesting one.
    — Gosh! If only you could coin a catchphrase to go along with this concept. Has “We, the people” been used yet?

    Icy (dc7d2c)

  215. I skipped to the end of the thread to add to the chorus of people who maintain you can tell a persons character by how they treat the powerless.
    The girl has zero power.. leave her alone

    SteveG (831214)

  216. I watched the esteemed Mr Smith’s apology vidiot, and my impression of it was that he was absolutely furious when he made it. When I watch his hands, especially in the first part of the video, I see strong emotion, I see frustration, I see a man who doesn’t believe what he is saying in the apology, a man who does not want to apologize, but who believes that he must do something, anything, to limit the damage he has caused to himself and his family.

    Many words came to mind when I watched that video; “sincere” was not one of them.

    Comment by The Dana who doubts his sincerity — 8/4/2012 @ 9:09 am

    Personally, I’m not interested in this guy’s apology.

    I can tell you before I see it, it’s not accepted.

    What’s he going to say? He made a mistake? This was no mistake. He’s a jackass. He videotaped himself planning his jackassery. I’m surprised he didn’t video himself masturbating to his fantasy jackassery before driving up to that window.

    What can anyone possibly say after doing this? He clearly thought this would go over well.

    This was no mistake on his part.

    Two points:

    First, if anyone is sorry he’s been fired you’ve got to first ask yourself, if you saw this video would you hire him in the first place?

    It isn’t a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with his opinion. Any employer really only has three questions to be answered in any job interview.

    1. Can this person do the job?

    2. Will this person do the job?

    3. Can I work with this person?

    You look at this guy proudly showing off what a monumental jerk he can be, and how can you possibly answer questions 2 and 3 in the affirmative?

    Second point. It’s no secret I’m not a fan of the idea of gay marriage. I am not convinced that gay marriage meets any sort of need that requires an institutional solution.

    I am convinced, however, when I see videos like this that it is an idea that must be resisted with all my heart and soul. Gay marriage has only gotten as far as it has because the thought police like this douche have seized upon it as if it were a giant crescent wrench to beat people with.

    People like this need to not only hate, but to feel justified for hating. Or for that matter stealing. Or whatever. Charles Manson killed what? Less than a dozen?

    Look at this smug arrogant jerk off. To kill millions, you need a belief system. It may appear I’m exaggerating. I’m not. Does this guy look like he’s dealing with someone who he considers a human being?

    He’s got the proper attitude for an interrogator.

    I am curious; I realize there are sincere advocates for gay marriage. I disagree with them. I don’t despise them like I do wannabe tyrants like Emmanuel or Menino or this guy.

    Do you think these guys help your brand?

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  217. ShelbyC ran away? Aw, shucks!

    Icy (4d7b3f)

  218. I came across Adam Smith’s apology. It’s pretty much as I figured.

    He “literally” viewed the woman at the window as “collateral damage,” not as a human being.

    Because of the empathy!

    Nothing like h8ing the h8ers and the h8red they h8fully scream at the top of the h8ful lungs to really make you feel good about giving full voice to your own h8 in response.

    Because they deserve it, the h8ers!

    In another life this guy would be in the vanguard of Mao’s revolution, killing the reactionary capitalists who are interfering with the great leap forward. Or maybe in this life; it’s still early. I hear even after they teach those godbothering christofascists a lesson on gay marriage, they still aren’t going to straighten up and fly right and just shut-up and pay for Sandra Fluke’s multi-thousand dollar per year prophylactic habit already.

    Non-human h8er scum!

    Steve57 (5797fd)

  219. Well, the first amendment does not only control the government, it can also control private entities in circumstances

    No, it cannot.

    such as prisons, public utilities delegated state powers, etc.

    None of those are private entities.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  220. http://ricochet.com/main-feed/The-Same-Sex-Mariage-Debate-Is-Too-Vicious-And-Here-s-What-We-Need-To-Do-About-It

    “If it is true that believing marriage is the conjugal union of one man and one wife is bigoted, the equivalent to the most vile racists of the past centuries, then it makes sense to react in the way the reporter, the recently fired corporate executive and the lesbian passer-by did.

    If the idea that marriage is the conjugal union of man and wife is bigotry — and the mainstream media and the cultural elite have pounded this view non-stop for years (here’s the latest example of the accompanying holier-than-thou pietism with which the view is pushed) * — then you should respond by tormenting drive-thru workers who are part of the bigotry-industrial complex. You should speak ill of people who hold this view on Facebook. Often! You should feel like eating a chicken sandwich was about people putting their boot on your chest.

    The thing is, though, that it’s not…

    * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45tWzmfCMDQ

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  221. New York Times ethicist question and answer:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/magazine/hate-posts.html

    Interesting viewpoint in the New York Times.

    He or she said they spotted terrible racist rants on the Facebook page of someone who works at a local retail establishment. The question was would it be ethical to inform the employer so that the Facebook person removes the name of the establishment from his page?

    The reply was it’s not unethical. But iness owner might not care, and he would still work at the store. if the problem is you don;’t like how the employees think, a better idea would be to let it stay up so other people could see how employees of that store think.

    Note the total absence of the idea that the person should be fired.

    So the New York Times doesn’t believe in punishing people for bad opinions by firing them -even for vile screeds, if it is more or less irrelevant to the job someone has.

    Unless something has been left out of teh question, and there is some reason to beleive the store owner is sympathetic to what he says or close personally to the person saying that.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

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